March 26, 2025 • 39 mins
Cincinnati Music Hall is widely regarded as one of the most haunted buildings in the US, built on the site of an old potter's field and an orphan asylum, where human remains have routinely been uncovered during renovations.
Special Guest: Adam Berry
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener, discretion is advised. What
is it about a theater? It seems just about every
one of them is haunted. Every fall I embark on
a speaking tour of twenty to thirty cities, and nine
(00:24):
times out of ten the staff is eager to share
their ghost stories with me. In one theater, and sadly
I can't remember which one, I'll never forget being on
stage delivering my lecture to the audience when suddenly I
heard whispering to my left, as though someone was trying
to get my attention backstage in front of this audience
(00:46):
of hundreds, I stopped talking and looked into the darkness
at the side of the stage, trying to see if
one of the texts was attempting to get my attention.
I didn't see anyone. I figured if it was important,
they would try again. Less than a minute later, I
heard the whisper again, except this time it was almost
directly in my ear. Imagine having such a thing happen
(01:10):
while you're trying to keep your cool in front of
a large audience. I did tell the story to them
during the Q and A. After I'd gotten through the
main lecture itself. Afterward, one of the staff members came
up to me and told me I was not the
first who had experienced the whispering ghost on stage. That
being said, to this day, one of the most unexplainable
(01:34):
experiences I have ever had took place in a theater,
an experience that defies all logic. Would you like to
know more? Of course you do. Join me, Haunted roadies
as we venture to the Cincinnati Music Hall. I'm Amy Brunei,
(01:54):
and this is Haunted Road in Cincinnati's Over the Rhine neighborhood.
A nearly one hundred fifty year old music hall sprawls
above a grassy, sunlit park. It's called, appropriately enough, the
Cincinnati Music Hall. The building is in the high Victorian
(02:16):
Gothic Revival style. Its three foot thick red brick walls
and peaked roofs tower over cobblestone streets, and a streetcar
stop that sits just outside its front doors, making it
look like it belongs in another time. Inside the foyer
is white, bright and airy. Huge windows let sunlight shine
(02:37):
on both the ground floor and the balcony. White columns
and chandeliers draw the eye upward, but visitors who do
glance down will see the original checkered flooring. According to
the Friends of the Music Hall, it's made of three
types of stone, all imported from Vermont, unfading red slate,
Danby white marble, and Champlain black marble. Further into the hall,
(03:01):
visitors can drop by a number of event spaces, Corbett Tower,
which can hold three hundred people and is a popular
choice for weddings, the Ballroom, which features a stage and
an ARC's ceiling, and of course Springer Auditorium, which can
seat just over thirty five hundred people. Its chairs and
curtain are read while a fifteen hundred pound crystal chandelier
(03:24):
dangles from a mural on the ceiling. According to the
Friends of the Music Hall, the piece depicts the spirits
of music, literature, science and history. The title of the
mural is allegory of the arts. If a visitor were
to come to the theater when there was no performance
going on and look at the stage, they'd see a
(03:45):
lit ghost light. It's standard to have one in any theater.
On whisk News, Ben Bromley wrote that historically theater performers
have considered it good practice to have a light on
to keep the ghosts away, because traditionally all theaters are
considered to be haunted by default. But let's talk about
the Cincinnati Music Hall specifically. It was built over the
(04:09):
course of two years, beginning in eighteen seventy six. At
that time, the city didn't have a proper music hall,
but they did have a number of exposition buildings where
performances could be held. However, they had not been designed
with acoustics in mind. As rumor goes, one night, a
concert had to be delayed because the sound of rain
(04:30):
drumming against the tin roof was drowning out the performers.
So afterward, the people of Cincinnati were determined to build
a proper hall, and they chose to build it on
the site of those exposition halls, land that had previously
been used as a potter's field before their construction. This
meant that in the early eighteen hundreds, anyone who died
(04:52):
in Cincinnati and was too poor to afford a traditional
burial would end up there or in another field like it. Likewise,
anyone who passed away and couldn't be identified afterward would
be laid to rest in a potter's field. Additionally, the
field may have held those who died in a tragic
steamboat explosion on April twenty fifth, nineteen thirty eight, when
(05:16):
the boilers on the Moselle blew up. Roughly one hundred
fifty passengers were ripped apart in the blast, their dismembered
bodies rained down all across Cincinnati. According to Lufcadio Hearne,
writing for an American Miscellany, Eventually officials gathered all the
remains that they could find and buried them in a
(05:36):
potter's field, although it's unclear if it was the same
potter's field that eventually came to house the music hall.
The grounds may have also been used as a so
called pest house, a building where sick people could be
quarantined until they either recovered or died. I haven't been
able to verify that, but I do know that an
(05:57):
orphanage stood on the land from roughly eighteen thirty sive
seven to eighteen sixty one. In his book Cincinnati Murder
and Mayhem, Roy Heiser wrote that the orphanage got its
water from a badly polluted canal. Many children grew sick
and died from the toxins in the water, and even
more drowned while playing in the waterway. It said that
(06:18):
the deceased were subsequently buried on the Orphanage grounds, and
from eighteen thirty two to eighteen forty nine, a cholera
outbreak swept through Cincinnati. It's been speculated that some people
who died of the disease were also laid to rest
in the same field. Altogether, it's said that thousands of
people have been buried on this stretch of land. Unsurprisingly,
(06:42):
many of those human remains were unearthed when construction began
for the new music Hall. In a newspaper article from
the time, reporter left Kadi O'Hearn wrote that the crews
frequently broke ground just to uncover pits of skulls, vertebrae,
and arm and leg bones. The friends of the music
Hall report that the teams worked with a local graveyard
(07:05):
to ensure that the deceased could be reburied with dignity.
This took a lot of time. Even though the new
building re used the foundations from the old Orphanage, the
construction process still took years, but finally the Cincinnati Music
Hall had its grand opening on May fourteenth, eighteen seventy eight.
(07:26):
The whole city celebrated. The Friends of the Music Hall
report that flags and bunting were hung all through town
and thousands poured into its walls to watch the opening
performance or to gag at other people as they pulled
up before the show. And in spite of its name,
the space hosted plenty of events that had nothing to
(07:46):
do with music, including expositions, boxing, and tennis matches, and
the South wing even served as a greenhouse for some time.
It was dubbed the Horticultural Wing, and it was filled
with growing plants and an air indoor waterfall. The eighteen
eighty Democratic National Convention was also held there. During the event,
(08:06):
Susan B. Anthony spoke on the importance of women's rights.
According to the Friends of the Music Hall, in the
midst of the festivities, the organizers borrowed a live two
foot long alligator from the Cincinnati Zoo. Apparently they thought
it would look striking sitting near the Horticultural Wings waterfall. Alarmingly,
the alligator disappeared during the event. Nobody knew if it
(08:29):
had wandered off on its own, or if someone had
stolen it to keep it as an exotic pet. The
mystery was solved a year and a half later when
a gas fitter was working in the hall only to
find himself face to face with the aggressive, very hungry alligator.
It was still alive and had grown another foot during
the time that it was loose. Luckily, the animal was
(08:51):
recaptured without incident. It lived out the rest of its
days back in the zoo. Just four years after the convention,
the Cincinnati Music Hall hosted a different kind of political event,
an informal town forum. After an infamous murder case led
to an unpopular court ruling, a group of Cincinnati citizens
(09:11):
gathered in the auditorium to express their frustrations. On March
twenty eighth, eighteen eighty four, as tempers burned hotter, a
riot broke out. A group of angry citizens stormed the courthouse,
and by the next day it had burned to the ground.
Before the violence had run its course, fifty six people
had died and another three hundred were injured. In nineteen eighteen,
(09:36):
another tragedy struck and the Cincinnati Music Hall had to
serve as a makeshift hospital during a flu pandemic. But
for most of its years of operation, the facility was
a hub for artistic performances, conferences, and exhibitions. Pavati, Ella, Fitzgerald,
Frank Sinatra, and Bruce Springsteen all had shows there, and
(09:58):
numerous presidents, including US Lissi's s Grant, Theodore Roosevelt, and
Barack Obama attended as guests. Still, the music Hall's dark
history had a way of rearing its ugly head repeatedly.
During a renovation in February of nineteen twenty seven, construction
workers uncovered three graves and headstones on the grounds. Unfortunately,
(10:21):
a snowstorm struck before the bodies could be disinterred and relocated,
and when officials returned to the site later, some bones
had gone missing. When the Friends of the music Hall
reported on the incident, they claimed that souvenir hunters had
taken a skull and two pelvic bones. They also said
the remains that hadn't been stolen were reburied not in
(10:42):
a graveyard, but in the music Hall's new elevator shaft.
That same year, another construction team uncovered sixty five graves
while excavating under the south wing. There were so many
remains the workers called the site the Valley of Death.
Even more of these bones were stolen before the deceased
(11:03):
could be reburied, and once more, instead of moving them
to a traditional graveyard, the bones were put back into
the ground beneath the Music Hall, not too far from
where they'd first been found. More bones were uncovered during
another renovation in May of nineteen eighty eight. According to
Greg Hand of Cincinnati Magazine, there were so many altogether
(11:27):
they weighed two hundred and seven pounds, not counting the
block of concrete they were found inside of. And in
twenty sixteen, even more remains were unearthed. Some were under
the orchestra pit and others were in the North carriageway.
This time around, they were reburied in a graveyard, according
(11:47):
to the Friends of the Cincinnati Musical But even after
these remains were laid back to rest, from the sound
of it, their spirits were unwilling or unable to move on.
The Cincinnati Music Hall has a reputation for being incredibly haunted,
and some reports go back to before it was even built.
(12:07):
In Lafcadio Hearn's article The Restless Dead concerning haunted houses,
he reported on one night watchman he worked in the
old exhibition halls that had once stood on the same
plot of land. When he was alone there after dark,
he heard disembodied footsteps, fists tapping on the ceilings, and
the unmistakable sound of bodies being dragged across the floor.
(12:31):
The watchman always investigated the noises, but he could never
find their source. Even after he heard objects tumble to
the ground or glass shatter, he'd search every inch of
the building to find nothing was broken or out of place.
He brought his dogs with him to his shifts, but
they were no help. Sometimes they'd refuse to even come inside.
(12:52):
On the occasions when he could get them through the doors,
they'd whimper in terror and stay close to him, too
frightened to sniff out the strange disturbances. Interestingly enough, the
night watchman didn't quit his job. As the years went on,
he became used to the spectral activity. He got to
a point where it didn't scare him anymore. With one exception,
(13:14):
he still felt a chill each time he went out
on patrols, only to hear a second set of footsteps
following him in the dark. Occasionally, the invisible figure tailing
him would sigh or groan, and the watchman could feel
its icy breath on his neck. These days, music hall
staff frequently reports similar phenomena. A former Cincinnati Pop's music
(13:39):
director and the CEO slash general director have both heard
strange noises late at night when the hall should be empty. Once,
an employee brought his son to the auditorium with him
while he was working. The Friends of the music hall
reports that while his son stood on stage, he pointed
at box nine and asked, Daddy, who's the man in
(14:00):
the box? But when the father looked to the seats,
they were all empty. Still, the son insisted that there
was someone there waving at him. The claim was unsettling
enough that the employee decided not to stick around. Instead,
he grabbed his child and rushed out of the building.
Other visitors have seen specters in clothing that appears to
(14:21):
be from the eighteen hundreds. This includes a woman in
white who paces around in the hall and on the
grounds outside. Occasionally, guests can spot her dancing in the
ballroom too. Speaking of the ballroom, Julie Carr wrote on
Haunted Houses dot Com of one occasion when some workers
were in another part of the building late at night,
(14:43):
they heard music coming from the ballroom, which was supposed
to be empty, but when they opened the door, they
found countless spirits in nineteenth century outfits in the midst
of a spectral dance party. A box office employee once
spotted a boy in knickers and a cap. Visitors to
the basement have seen a poorly dressed young girl. She's dirty,
(15:04):
with matted hair and bad teeth, so some believe she
could be an orphan girl's spirit. During performances, sometimes audience
members wearing nineteenth century clothing are spotted in unsold seats,
as though the ghosts of the dead are still catching
the latest show. Likewise, performers have appeared on stage who
can't be identified and aren't formally part of the cast.
(15:27):
That's according to John B. Kachuba's book Ghost Hunting Ohio.
Given all of this activity, it's no surprise that the
music hall offers ghost tours. The people who book them
report hearing disembodied footsteps, music and singing from the auditorium
even when it's supposed to be empty, and shadows that
can't be explained. The seats sometimes move on their own,
(15:50):
as do the doors that slam without warning. The elevator
was removed in twenty sixteen, but before then it's sometimes
activated by itself, something I experienced. Visitors also report the
sensation that they're being watched, a feeling they can't shake off,
and at times guests even feel that something unseen has
(16:11):
pushed or shoved them. I want to dive deeper into
the Music Hall's history. So I was thinking today, maybe
we need to talk to someone who investigated it with me,
someone who was there when I had one of the
most profound paranormal experiences of my life at the Cincinnati
Music Hall. So yes, up next we will be speaking
(16:32):
with friend of the show and friend of mine, mister
Adam Berry. That's coming up after the break. All right,
I am now joined by Haunted Road regular BFF, wonderful
human being, mister Adam Berry. Welcome back to the program,
(16:56):
mister Barry.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know, great to be here to walk down the
road again with you.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
It's funny like this one. So we investigated Cincinnati Music
halltogether on Ghost Hunters. We were there for a few nights,
I think two, and I probably could have found someone
who'd investigated it a bunch, but I felt like we
had so many great experiences there. I wanted to kind
of reminisce especially I think this was one of the
(17:25):
cases we did on our last season of ghost Hunters.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Believe it or not, Yeah, for sure, I remember.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
The one thing I do remember is the three am
activity that they said. It was like Jay or Grant
was one of them, was like, you know, Amy and
animals stay up till three am, and so it wasn't
like we were afraid to stay at three am to
see if activity would happen. But we have been working
since like one pm or noon, and we were both
(17:52):
like three what we have to be up that long?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Three thirty? Actually? What the idea of that? Now makes
me nauseous? Like that's the part.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, I can't stay up.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
No, I tell people all the time, well you can
stay upwayer them me. But but like I've noticed, you know,
as years have gone by, that you do stay up,
not as late as you used to. Well you're in
bed by like one.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, listen, three am is.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I have discovered in my age that three am is is.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Like the past of like past, the point at no return.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
No, like when three am hits, if I'm not in bed,
it's no matter what happens the next day.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It is the day is not going to be good.
It's I'm tired, like it's it's it's crazy. But I
am glad that we put our big boy and girl
pants on and did the three thirty am because what
happened to us was insane.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, I tell that story a lot, so for those Okay,
so for those who did not watch this episode of
Ghost Hunters and honestly, like, there's a whole backstory anyway,
So we'll do this. We'll talk about this first because
it was such an insane moment. I'll do this setup
and then you can say what we saw. Okay, So okay,
(19:10):
we were so basically, like Adam was saying, we were approached,
and actually I think it was Jay and Steve because
Grant wasn't there anymore at this point, and so we
were approached, not even by Jay. I think he sent
the producers at us. He was like, and it was like,
so listen, there's this thing that happens in the theater
(19:33):
every night, they claim at three point thirty am. And
we were both like, not one of these things again,
because how many times does someone say to us, like
every day or every night? Just stay up till three
at night. It goes crazy. Just wait and see and
then we do it and we're like, nothing's happening. Yeah,
and so they were like, but we you know, they
said we should do our due diligence, and you know,
(19:55):
Jay really wants, you know, the team really wants someone
to stay up and wait for this thing to happen.
And the reality was like we were the you know,
actually no, we weren't the low men on the totem
pole per se, because I think that Britt and Sam
were there.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
But for some.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I think I think we pulled the short store or something.
But yeah, somehow we were nominated to stay until three thirty.
So it was us and a camera operator Kenny actually
Kenny Kane, and a producer and an audio person and
so you know, obviously people like to invest infested eight
(20:33):
late at night. But like when you're doing a show
like Ghost Hunters, like Adam was saying earlier, we start
so early, so by that time, like the crew and stuff,
they're going into overtime, like you know, we have to
kind of budget our nighttime hours. So everyone left. It
was so I remember it was just being like sitting
there and everyone's like bye, We'll see you guys tomorrow,
(20:54):
and we're.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Like yeah, and it was it was like ours. It
was like probably they.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Left at like two, like one thirty or two, and
so yeah, it was. And then the producer who was
with us was kind of a hard ass, and he
was like, well, we better do something, so we had
to like just keep investigating the whole time when we
were just so exhausted. Anyways, so we make it. We
go stand on the stage and the story is that
(21:22):
every night at three thirty, if you look up into
the stands or whatever you want to call them, you
will see someone up there waving at you. So what happened,
Adam Barry?
Speaker 3 (21:34):
I will never forget it as long as I live,
because the two of us, by the three thirty point,
it was almost that that like okay, show me, okay,
let's go, Like it was this moment where we were like,
if this is going to happen, it better here we go.
And you and I are looking up in the balcony area,
(21:56):
which to the right side, like the upper right side
of the Cincinnati Music Hall falcony, and we see what
can only be described as this very tall, dark figure
waving like in slow motion with their right arm a
little like next to their head waving. They were very skinny,
(22:19):
and it had a grin on its face that reminded
me of like the cheshire cat from Alice in Wonderland.
And I remember seeing it and I was like, Oh
my god, is that somebody wave? And you were like,
oh my god. And then I think Kenny couldn't see
or did see it in his camera.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I have no idea. I don't remember that, but I
remember we were just dumbfounded because A it was happening.
B We were like, holy crap, it's three point thirty.
It's occurring. And it was the most unsettling.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Weird visual experience I think we have ever had in
terms of like showing up at the right place at
the right time.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's almost it reminds me of Baba Duke before Baba Duke, right,
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And I just remember
like being like, Okay, we saw and it disappeared. It
slowly kind of vanished on its own dissipated time.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It was there for long enough. It was there for minutes,
I feel like, but we literally ran up there and looked.
I remember like going like we're like.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, we tried to recreate it. We tried to be like, okay, well,
what what was it? Was it a curtain? Was it
a was it our eyes playing track? And no, it
was not.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
And we both saw we both saw it, and I
don't I don't understand it. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I mean, I don't know if like we manifested.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That because we, you know, had been put in this
position for it to happen and we sort of did that,
or if it actually showed up.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But beyond trying to figure out what it was, it
was very very very very creepy.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
It was well it was so funny too, because obviously
we were very tired and we were probably like, you know,
whining a little bit about having to stay so late.
But I just remember, like we settle and then we
look up and like the lights are out and we're
both like is that? What is that? What I think
it is? Like do you see that?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Do?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And I remember Kenny saw it, and I feel like
you can see it because on the show, I feel
like you can see it in like they act like
you can't, but I'm like I see it, Like I
feel like you can see it on the show. But
maybe I'm just hallucining. I don't know, but we stared
at it.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Or maybe it's just burned. Maybe it's burned into your
memory so that when you watch. I'll have to watch
the episode later and see if I can see it.
What if it just all automatically comes back every time
we watch the episode.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's like an.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Ever we're gonna dream of it. But I just remember.
I remember being awake very quickly. All of a sudden.
We were like, oh my gosh, new renewed vigor, Like
we are, adrenaline is pumping, and they you know, and
and and the producer can hear it, they can't see it,
and they're kind of like, all right, we got that.
And we're like, no, we're not done. We're gonna go
(25:20):
up there now. It's like five am, because we're like
we had to run up there and figure and it
was like you can't just run up to the balcony.
You have to like go through all these like you know, corridors,
and like we had to get doors open and try
to recreate this. And we figured out I remember because
it was standing like next to a doorway and we
figured out it was like six and a half feet
(25:40):
tall by the height for sure, like of you or
whoever we had stand up there for reference. It was
this very tall and I feel like I remember hat
being present as well, like the whole thing. Yes, and
the whole thing was just Baba Duke.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
It was literally Babba Duke before Baba Duke. I've never
seen it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So oh, I know what it looks like. Though you
have to see it. It scary.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I have to see it.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Well you know why it reminds you, So I'll okay,
So the whole if I get if you're listening and
you know, Boba do the movie by like the back
of your hand, don't don't at me in the DMS
because I kind of remember, but I kind of don't.
I believe it's sort of like a imaginary friend or
it was. That's how they're playing it off in this
(26:31):
movie spoiler aly, and then it shows up and it's
like walking around and being crazy and it like follows them.
So this is the weirdest thing. So remember, Okay. So
I sometimes do these zoomed things with fans and followers
where we just chat. And there was this woman that
I was talking to recently. This happened maybe a couple
(26:52):
months ago, December actually, for Christmas, and she's talking about
Cincinnati Music Hall because she lives in Cincinnati. And I'm
talking about this story. And as I'm talking about this story,
I'm doodling. I'm really into pencils these.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Days, so I have like a blank piece of paper.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And I'm sort of doodling what I remember seeing. And
as I'm drawing the circle of the head and putting
in this like weird mouth and the arms and the
lanky I realize this is gonna sound strange, but I
realize that I am drawing something that I used to
draw as a kid all the time. Like all of
(27:33):
a sudden, I'm looking at this drawing and I'm going,
oh my god, I've drawn this before.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
And it literally is something.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
That I used to draw as a kid because I
was into like comic strips and I wanted to make
this character like into a comic strip or something.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And it has long arms and weird crazy fingers.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It didn't have a mouth, right, so like if it
had a mouth, it looked similar, and I was like,
I don't know what about it sat with me for
a moment, but I got really nervous about it, like
it's something clicked between my childhood and seeing this thing again.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And I don't know if it's like following us.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I don't know, because remember that time we did the
basement episode of Gindrid Spirits and we thought that something
was following us around.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yes, well we had like we had in season one
of Kindred. We had the same EVP and multiple locations,
and it would say, Amy Adam as.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So what if what if this thing and the thing
that happened to you when you were a kid and
you saw in the woods. What if these things are
the same and it's just following us around it.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I don't want to think about that.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Since the beginning of being kids and for some reason
our trajectory like we got together, we started working together,
and it just but the universe knew from the beginning,
you know how the universe throws you weird stuff. What if?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I did not expect to say this podcast. I was like, well,
I talk about that cool thing is insane music Hall.
But now there's a you know, six and a half
foot tall, scary, smiling man with a top hat with
long arms and fingers that follows us around and waves
very slowly so.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And I wrote down as soon as I got off
the zoom with her, I stared at that picture and
I'll have to show it to you.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
But I because I.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Stared at that photo, and I just wrote the phrase
who are you? Question mark right, And I left it
alone because I'm like, who are you? And I gave
it out to the universe to be like, Okay, if
you're if you're coming and going and you're being around
us for whatever reason, who are you?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
My dude?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Well, when this airs, you'll have to post a photo
of your drawing so you can describe to everybody what
we saw.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Oh god, it's so weird because it's just I don't know.
And you know what's crazy is I had not thought
about that character. I should draw it all the time.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Like on my notebooks as a kid, like in middle
school and like whatever, but then I didn't think about it,
Like I have not thought about that drawing or that
little character that I drew since the last day that
I did it, way back, you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Know whatever, how many years thirty five years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
So now I'm like, let's talk about the Cincinnati Music
Hall moment, and it brings it all back to you.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So it's so bizarre.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It's one of those weird synchronicity moments coming around that's crazy.
It's weird because I went back to Cincinnati Music Hall
because I did a show there a year before last,
but it wasn't in the main I did it in
the ballroom, which is a really cool space, and it
sold out, which was amazing. But my dressing room was
kind of in this like back corner area and it
(30:50):
was very spooky. It wasn't like a traditional dressing room.
And I remember, like I was sitting in there by myself,
and I was already kind of nervous because like the
show would sell out, and then they would because it
was the ballroom, then they would just rearrange the tables
and add more seats and so it kept getting bigger
and bigger and bigger, and it was one of the
(31:10):
biggest crowds I'd done. Like, so I was already nervous,
but then I was in this weird dressing room and
all of a sudden, I remembered what we saw there,
and I was like transported back and I was like,
oh my gosh, that thing is like walking around in
this place somewhere. And then I started like I started
(31:31):
thinking like, what if I'm doing my talk and he's
standing in the back. I started thinking about this right
before I'm about to go on stage in front of
nine hundred people, like and I was like what if
I was just like, it's the dark and I'm doing
my talk and all of a sudden, I see that
man back there just waving at me, like what would
I do? You know that crept in to my Like
(31:53):
that did not happen, thank goodness, but I did think
about it. It sounds like a scene from a horror movie,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
No, it is. And then what's weird? Is it came?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I mean, obviously you're in the space, but this experience
is one of those that we had that sort of
sneaks up on you when you least expect it, like
all of a sudden you think about it, or it
comes out of nowhere, and every.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Time it happens, it's almost like we're reliving it.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah again, all the feelings come back, all the things
come back, and like, you know, I know, we just
talked about a lot that we would hate staying up
till three point thirty.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
But I would probably I would probably tempt that again.
Maybe I'll take an afternoon nap just.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
So that we could see if we could have the
experience again, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
You know, Also, why are we so against just like
waking up early and starting to investigate? You know, I
was thinking about that. I'm like, yeah, what if you
just had like a you know, three am start time,
and you just woke up at two and you went
to Betterly.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, you went at five o'clock.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
But there's a lot of other things that have happened
there though, too, Like even when we were there, I
remember distinctly there was a footsteps situation. There's so many
sounds in that place. People were hearing voices, they were
loud bangs, there were doors slamming, Like I mean, I
don't know how much you remember about the history, but
it was literally built, like they found so many bones,
(33:31):
even just as recently as like twenty sixteen. I don't
know if you remember, but when they took us on
the tour, they showed us the elevator that I was
so terrified of because they used a big elevator. Oh
and so when they were constructing that elevator, they found
a ton of bones at the bottom of it. Like
when they were digging up for so yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Like human bones, human human bones.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, so they had they reburied a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
But I remember the music hall like I can see
it in my head. So I remember how grand it is,
and I remember how like just so cool it was
to be there on the space like to be I
don't know in that in that environment, but I don't
I guess I don't recall the.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Human How do you forget human bones?
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Well, it's because there's like a six and a half
foot tall ghost man waving at you, and you just
everything else disappears in that moment.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
He's the one that's hiding the boat. He's going to
take our bones at some point.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Would the bone collector?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Oh god, see now I'm terrified.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
The bone collector. And people are gonna be.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Like, listen, if you are watching, if you're listening to
this episode of Hanted Road, we need fan art.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
We need fan art of this creepy.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Y Yes we do, creepy dude, Yes, we did send
it our way and I'll post mine.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Oh my gosh, I can't believe you're encouraging this.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Come on, listen.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
I want people's worst nightmares to be fulfilled at this
point because if we had to see it, they're going
to see it.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Well, they should also do the fan art of us
seeing it, so it should be like a oh my.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
God, oh a comic strip. I've talked about comic ship.
What if we did?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
We need a comic strip of us being kind of grumpy, sleepy.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
And then wide awake and weird. Baba duke man, there
we is. That's it.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I see, I can see it now. Okay, So, but
I do want to talk about my brain is a
broken note. I do want to talk about now while
I have you, because it's really exciting. I saw that
the paperback of your book came out recently. What's going
on with that?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yes, so paperback for Goodbye Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding
Death through the Paranormal just released on March eleventh. There,
even if you have the book, there is a brand
new chapter in chapter thirteen my favorite number.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
And there's also a workbook.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Journal that I created for or the topics that go
along with each chapter, so you can write in the
book as your own little journal, put your own thoughts down,
and you know, help process what you're reading and what
you're feeling and thinking. And the new chapter is actually
a story something that happened to me when I was
recording the audiobook. So the book was already in print.
(36:19):
There was no going back. But the publisher said, you know,
if this makes it to paperback, will you write will
you write another chapter for it? And I was like absolutely,
so spoiler alert, you can't. You don't know the story,
so you get the book, so.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Even if you've read it. But yeah, it's just dropped.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And I'm on the cover and I might regret that
when I'm ninety eight, still selling the book.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
But the last the new chapter is called The Bone Collector.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, it's called get Ready. Get Ready?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Oh yeah, available wherever books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble,
all the fun places.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I ordered a copy yesterday. It's not here yet, but
I ordered a copy yesterday.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, thank you. Now.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I love to support my friends, even when they give
me free books, I still order it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Always make sure listen.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I love to see our books trending side by side, you.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Know, are they oh, food to.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Die For and Food to die For? And the paperback
and then Steve Gonzolvez is there.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
His book is there.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
So it's fun to see it's fun to see all
of us on the chats as they say.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I love that. I love that so much. What else
do you have going on? Anything you want to tell
the world about.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Oh well, I mean not really.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I mean maybe we'll do this again and then I'll
have more time. Now.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I know you have things you can't talk about yet.
But it was also just your birthday, and I did
wish you happy for it was, but happy birthday again.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Eventually I will Eventually I will pick up the Christmas present,
which is the birthday present, which also is the birthday present.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I'm going to send you a picture of it because
I got you the perfect gift and I have been
sitting on it for six So I got him as
present for Christmas and it was perfect. And I've seen
Adam probably six times since christs thank you forgetting to
give it to you. And so now I'm like, well,
now it's your birthday present. But it is literally the
(38:11):
perfect gift. My friend had it in his house and
I was like, I have to get that for Ben
and Adam, well for Adam and Ben Rose for both
of you. Really, so thank you you.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, all right, well it's lovely chatting with you. I'm
glad we could take this little walk down memory lane,
even though slightly terrifying, and I'm going to have nightmares,
but I appreciate you, and I love you, and hopefully
I will talk to you again very soon.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yes, let's get together soon.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
By the time the Cincinnati Music Hall was built, the
grounds were already choked with the bones of long dead people.
But hope for the future rose up from tragedy, and
a hall was built to celebrate community, art and culture.
Perhaps today the spirits there can take solace in life
halls that ring with music, laughter, and optimism. I'm Amy Brunei,
(39:05):
and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production
of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Haunted
Road is hosted and written by me Amy Brunne, with
(39:26):
additional research by Cassandra de Alba. This show is edited
and produced by supervising producer Rima el Kali, with executive
producers Aaron Menke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. Learn more
about this show over at Grimandmild dot com, and for
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts,
(39:49):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener, discretion is advised. What
is it about a theater? It seems just about every
one of them is haunted. Every fall I embark on
a speaking tour of twenty to thirty cities, and nine
(00:24):
times out of ten the staff is eager to share
their ghost stories with me. In one theater, and sadly
I can't remember which one, I'll never forget being on
stage delivering my lecture to the audience when suddenly I
heard whispering to my left, as though someone was trying
to get my attention backstage in front of this audience
(00:46):
of hundreds, I stopped talking and looked into the darkness
at the side of the stage, trying to see if
one of the texts was attempting to get my attention.
I didn't see anyone. I figured if it was important,
they would try again. Less than a minute later, I
heard the whisper again, except this time it was almost
directly in my ear. Imagine having such a thing happen
(01:10):
while you're trying to keep your cool in front of
a large audience. I did tell the story to them
during the Q and A. After I'd gotten through the
main lecture itself. Afterward, one of the staff members came
up to me and told me I was not the
first who had experienced the whispering ghost on stage. That
being said, to this day, one of the most unexplainable
(01:34):
experiences I have ever had took place in a theater,
an experience that defies all logic. Would you like to
know more? Of course you do. Join me, Haunted roadies
as we venture to the Cincinnati Music Hall. I'm Amy Brunei,
(01:54):
and this is Haunted Road in Cincinnati's Over the Rhine neighborhood.
A nearly one hundred fifty year old music hall sprawls
above a grassy, sunlit park. It's called, appropriately enough, the
Cincinnati Music Hall. The building is in the high Victorian
(02:16):
Gothic Revival style. Its three foot thick red brick walls
and peaked roofs tower over cobblestone streets, and a streetcar
stop that sits just outside its front doors, making it
look like it belongs in another time. Inside the foyer
is white, bright and airy. Huge windows let sunlight shine
(02:37):
on both the ground floor and the balcony. White columns
and chandeliers draw the eye upward, but visitors who do
glance down will see the original checkered flooring. According to
the Friends of the Music Hall, it's made of three
types of stone, all imported from Vermont, unfading red slate,
Danby white marble, and Champlain black marble. Further into the hall,
(03:01):
visitors can drop by a number of event spaces, Corbett Tower,
which can hold three hundred people and is a popular
choice for weddings, the Ballroom, which features a stage and
an ARC's ceiling, and of course Springer Auditorium, which can
seat just over thirty five hundred people. Its chairs and
curtain are read while a fifteen hundred pound crystal chandelier
(03:24):
dangles from a mural on the ceiling. According to the
Friends of the Music Hall, the piece depicts the spirits
of music, literature, science and history. The title of the
mural is allegory of the arts. If a visitor were
to come to the theater when there was no performance
going on and look at the stage, they'd see a
(03:45):
lit ghost light. It's standard to have one in any theater.
On whisk News, Ben Bromley wrote that historically theater performers
have considered it good practice to have a light on
to keep the ghosts away, because traditionally all theaters are
considered to be haunted by default. But let's talk about
the Cincinnati Music Hall specifically. It was built over the
(04:09):
course of two years, beginning in eighteen seventy six. At
that time, the city didn't have a proper music hall,
but they did have a number of exposition buildings where
performances could be held. However, they had not been designed
with acoustics in mind. As rumor goes, one night, a
concert had to be delayed because the sound of rain
(04:30):
drumming against the tin roof was drowning out the performers.
So afterward, the people of Cincinnati were determined to build
a proper hall, and they chose to build it on
the site of those exposition halls, land that had previously
been used as a potter's field before their construction. This
meant that in the early eighteen hundreds, anyone who died
(04:52):
in Cincinnati and was too poor to afford a traditional
burial would end up there or in another field like it. Likewise,
anyone who passed away and couldn't be identified afterward would
be laid to rest in a potter's field. Additionally, the
field may have held those who died in a tragic
steamboat explosion on April twenty fifth, nineteen thirty eight, when
(05:16):
the boilers on the Moselle blew up. Roughly one hundred
fifty passengers were ripped apart in the blast, their dismembered
bodies rained down all across Cincinnati. According to Lufcadio Hearne,
writing for an American Miscellany, Eventually officials gathered all the
remains that they could find and buried them in a
(05:36):
potter's field, although it's unclear if it was the same
potter's field that eventually came to house the music hall.
The grounds may have also been used as a so
called pest house, a building where sick people could be
quarantined until they either recovered or died. I haven't been
able to verify that, but I do know that an
(05:57):
orphanage stood on the land from roughly eighteen thirty sive
seven to eighteen sixty one. In his book Cincinnati Murder
and Mayhem, Roy Heiser wrote that the orphanage got its
water from a badly polluted canal. Many children grew sick
and died from the toxins in the water, and even
more drowned while playing in the waterway. It said that
(06:18):
the deceased were subsequently buried on the Orphanage grounds, and
from eighteen thirty two to eighteen forty nine, a cholera
outbreak swept through Cincinnati. It's been speculated that some people
who died of the disease were also laid to rest
in the same field. Altogether, it's said that thousands of
people have been buried on this stretch of land. Unsurprisingly,
(06:42):
many of those human remains were unearthed when construction began
for the new music Hall. In a newspaper article from
the time, reporter left Kadi O'Hearn wrote that the crews
frequently broke ground just to uncover pits of skulls, vertebrae,
and arm and leg bones. The friends of the music
Hall report that the teams worked with a local graveyard
(07:05):
to ensure that the deceased could be reburied with dignity.
This took a lot of time. Even though the new
building re used the foundations from the old Orphanage, the
construction process still took years, but finally the Cincinnati Music
Hall had its grand opening on May fourteenth, eighteen seventy eight.
(07:26):
The whole city celebrated. The Friends of the Music Hall
report that flags and bunting were hung all through town
and thousands poured into its walls to watch the opening
performance or to gag at other people as they pulled
up before the show. And in spite of its name,
the space hosted plenty of events that had nothing to
(07:46):
do with music, including expositions, boxing, and tennis matches, and
the South wing even served as a greenhouse for some time.
It was dubbed the Horticultural Wing, and it was filled
with growing plants and an air indoor waterfall. The eighteen
eighty Democratic National Convention was also held there. During the event,
(08:06):
Susan B. Anthony spoke on the importance of women's rights.
According to the Friends of the Music Hall, in the
midst of the festivities, the organizers borrowed a live two
foot long alligator from the Cincinnati Zoo. Apparently they thought
it would look striking sitting near the Horticultural Wings waterfall. Alarmingly,
the alligator disappeared during the event. Nobody knew if it
(08:29):
had wandered off on its own, or if someone had
stolen it to keep it as an exotic pet. The
mystery was solved a year and a half later when
a gas fitter was working in the hall only to
find himself face to face with the aggressive, very hungry alligator.
It was still alive and had grown another foot during
the time that it was loose. Luckily, the animal was
(08:51):
recaptured without incident. It lived out the rest of its
days back in the zoo. Just four years after the convention,
the Cincinnati Music Hall hosted a different kind of political event,
an informal town forum. After an infamous murder case led
to an unpopular court ruling, a group of Cincinnati citizens
(09:11):
gathered in the auditorium to express their frustrations. On March
twenty eighth, eighteen eighty four, as tempers burned hotter, a
riot broke out. A group of angry citizens stormed the courthouse,
and by the next day it had burned to the ground.
Before the violence had run its course, fifty six people
had died and another three hundred were injured. In nineteen eighteen,
(09:36):
another tragedy struck and the Cincinnati Music Hall had to
serve as a makeshift hospital during a flu pandemic. But
for most of its years of operation, the facility was
a hub for artistic performances, conferences, and exhibitions. Pavati, Ella, Fitzgerald,
Frank Sinatra, and Bruce Springsteen all had shows there, and
(09:58):
numerous presidents, including US Lissi's s Grant, Theodore Roosevelt, and
Barack Obama attended as guests. Still, the music Hall's dark
history had a way of rearing its ugly head repeatedly.
During a renovation in February of nineteen twenty seven, construction
workers uncovered three graves and headstones on the grounds. Unfortunately,
(10:21):
a snowstorm struck before the bodies could be disinterred and relocated,
and when officials returned to the site later, some bones
had gone missing. When the Friends of the music Hall
reported on the incident, they claimed that souvenir hunters had
taken a skull and two pelvic bones. They also said
the remains that hadn't been stolen were reburied not in
(10:42):
a graveyard, but in the music Hall's new elevator shaft.
That same year, another construction team uncovered sixty five graves
while excavating under the south wing. There were so many
remains the workers called the site the Valley of Death.
Even more of these bones were stolen before the deceased
(11:03):
could be reburied, and once more, instead of moving them
to a traditional graveyard, the bones were put back into
the ground beneath the Music Hall, not too far from
where they'd first been found. More bones were uncovered during
another renovation in May of nineteen eighty eight. According to
Greg Hand of Cincinnati Magazine, there were so many altogether
(11:27):
they weighed two hundred and seven pounds, not counting the
block of concrete they were found inside of. And in
twenty sixteen, even more remains were unearthed. Some were under
the orchestra pit and others were in the North carriageway.
This time around, they were reburied in a graveyard, according
(11:47):
to the Friends of the Cincinnati Musical But even after
these remains were laid back to rest, from the sound
of it, their spirits were unwilling or unable to move on.
The Cincinnati Music Hall has a reputation for being incredibly haunted,
and some reports go back to before it was even built.
(12:07):
In Lafcadio Hearn's article The Restless Dead concerning haunted houses,
he reported on one night watchman he worked in the
old exhibition halls that had once stood on the same
plot of land. When he was alone there after dark,
he heard disembodied footsteps, fists tapping on the ceilings, and
the unmistakable sound of bodies being dragged across the floor.
(12:31):
The watchman always investigated the noises, but he could never
find their source. Even after he heard objects tumble to
the ground or glass shatter, he'd search every inch of
the building to find nothing was broken or out of place.
He brought his dogs with him to his shifts, but
they were no help. Sometimes they'd refuse to even come inside.
(12:52):
On the occasions when he could get them through the doors,
they'd whimper in terror and stay close to him, too
frightened to sniff out the strange disturbances. Interestingly enough, the
night watchman didn't quit his job. As the years went on,
he became used to the spectral activity. He got to
a point where it didn't scare him anymore. With one exception,
(13:14):
he still felt a chill each time he went out
on patrols, only to hear a second set of footsteps
following him in the dark. Occasionally, the invisible figure tailing
him would sigh or groan, and the watchman could feel
its icy breath on his neck. These days, music hall
staff frequently reports similar phenomena. A former Cincinnati Pop's music
(13:39):
director and the CEO slash general director have both heard
strange noises late at night when the hall should be empty. Once,
an employee brought his son to the auditorium with him
while he was working. The Friends of the music hall
reports that while his son stood on stage, he pointed
at box nine and asked, Daddy, who's the man in
(14:00):
the box? But when the father looked to the seats,
they were all empty. Still, the son insisted that there
was someone there waving at him. The claim was unsettling
enough that the employee decided not to stick around. Instead,
he grabbed his child and rushed out of the building.
Other visitors have seen specters in clothing that appears to
(14:21):
be from the eighteen hundreds. This includes a woman in
white who paces around in the hall and on the
grounds outside. Occasionally, guests can spot her dancing in the
ballroom too. Speaking of the ballroom, Julie Carr wrote on
Haunted Houses dot Com of one occasion when some workers
were in another part of the building late at night,
(14:43):
they heard music coming from the ballroom, which was supposed
to be empty, but when they opened the door, they
found countless spirits in nineteenth century outfits in the midst
of a spectral dance party. A box office employee once
spotted a boy in knickers and a cap. Visitors to
the basement have seen a poorly dressed young girl. She's dirty,
(15:04):
with matted hair and bad teeth, so some believe she
could be an orphan girl's spirit. During performances, sometimes audience
members wearing nineteenth century clothing are spotted in unsold seats,
as though the ghosts of the dead are still catching
the latest show. Likewise, performers have appeared on stage who
can't be identified and aren't formally part of the cast.
(15:27):
That's according to John B. Kachuba's book Ghost Hunting Ohio.
Given all of this activity, it's no surprise that the
music hall offers ghost tours. The people who book them
report hearing disembodied footsteps, music and singing from the auditorium
even when it's supposed to be empty, and shadows that
can't be explained. The seats sometimes move on their own,
(15:50):
as do the doors that slam without warning. The elevator
was removed in twenty sixteen, but before then it's sometimes
activated by itself, something I experienced. Visitors also report the
sensation that they're being watched, a feeling they can't shake off,
and at times guests even feel that something unseen has
(16:11):
pushed or shoved them. I want to dive deeper into
the Music Hall's history. So I was thinking today, maybe
we need to talk to someone who investigated it with me,
someone who was there when I had one of the
most profound paranormal experiences of my life at the Cincinnati
Music Hall. So yes, up next we will be speaking
(16:32):
with friend of the show and friend of mine, mister
Adam Berry. That's coming up after the break. All right,
I am now joined by Haunted Road regular BFF, wonderful
human being, mister Adam Berry. Welcome back to the program,
(16:56):
mister Barry.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know, great to be here to walk down the
road again with you.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
It's funny like this one. So we investigated Cincinnati Music
halltogether on Ghost Hunters. We were there for a few nights,
I think two, and I probably could have found someone
who'd investigated it a bunch, but I felt like we
had so many great experiences there. I wanted to kind
of reminisce especially I think this was one of the
(17:25):
cases we did on our last season of ghost Hunters.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Believe it or not, Yeah, for sure, I remember.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
The one thing I do remember is the three am
activity that they said. It was like Jay or Grant
was one of them, was like, you know, Amy and
animals stay up till three am, and so it wasn't
like we were afraid to stay at three am to
see if activity would happen. But we have been working
since like one pm or noon, and we were both
(17:52):
like three what we have to be up that long?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Three thirty? Actually? What the idea of that? Now makes
me nauseous? Like that's the part.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, I can't stay up.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
No, I tell people all the time, well you can
stay upwayer them me. But but like I've noticed, you know,
as years have gone by, that you do stay up,
not as late as you used to. Well you're in
bed by like one.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, listen, three am is.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I have discovered in my age that three am is is.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Like the past of like past, the point at no return.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
No, like when three am hits, if I'm not in bed,
it's no matter what happens the next day.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It is the day is not going to be good.
It's I'm tired, like it's it's it's crazy. But I
am glad that we put our big boy and girl
pants on and did the three thirty am because what
happened to us was insane.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, I tell that story a lot, so for those Okay,
so for those who did not watch this episode of
Ghost Hunters and honestly, like, there's a whole backstory anyway,
So we'll do this. We'll talk about this first because
it was such an insane moment. I'll do this setup
and then you can say what we saw. Okay, So okay,
(19:10):
we were so basically, like Adam was saying, we were approached,
and actually I think it was Jay and Steve because
Grant wasn't there anymore at this point, and so we
were approached, not even by Jay. I think he sent
the producers at us. He was like, and it was like,
so listen, there's this thing that happens in the theater
(19:33):
every night, they claim at three point thirty am. And
we were both like, not one of these things again,
because how many times does someone say to us, like
every day or every night? Just stay up till three
at night. It goes crazy. Just wait and see and
then we do it and we're like, nothing's happening. Yeah,
and so they were like, but we you know, they
said we should do our due diligence, and you know,
(19:55):
Jay really wants, you know, the team really wants someone
to stay up and wait for this thing to happen.
And the reality was like we were the you know,
actually no, we weren't the low men on the totem
pole per se, because I think that Britt and Sam
were there.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
But for some.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I think I think we pulled the short store or something.
But yeah, somehow we were nominated to stay until three thirty.
So it was us and a camera operator Kenny actually
Kenny Kane, and a producer and an audio person and
so you know, obviously people like to invest infested eight
(20:33):
late at night. But like when you're doing a show
like Ghost Hunters, like Adam was saying earlier, we start
so early, so by that time, like the crew and stuff,
they're going into overtime, like you know, we have to
kind of budget our nighttime hours. So everyone left. It
was so I remember it was just being like sitting
there and everyone's like bye, We'll see you guys tomorrow,
(20:54):
and we're.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Like yeah, and it was it was like ours. It
was like probably they.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Left at like two, like one thirty or two, and
so yeah, it was. And then the producer who was
with us was kind of a hard ass, and he
was like, well, we better do something, so we had
to like just keep investigating the whole time when we
were just so exhausted. Anyways, so we make it. We
go stand on the stage and the story is that
(21:22):
every night at three thirty, if you look up into
the stands or whatever you want to call them, you
will see someone up there waving at you. So what happened,
Adam Barry?
Speaker 3 (21:34):
I will never forget it as long as I live,
because the two of us, by the three thirty point,
it was almost that that like okay, show me, okay,
let's go, Like it was this moment where we were like,
if this is going to happen, it better here we go.
And you and I are looking up in the balcony area,
(21:56):
which to the right side, like the upper right side
of the Cincinnati Music Hall falcony, and we see what
can only be described as this very tall, dark figure
waving like in slow motion with their right arm a
little like next to their head waving. They were very skinny,
(22:19):
and it had a grin on its face that reminded
me of like the cheshire cat from Alice in Wonderland.
And I remember seeing it and I was like, Oh
my god, is that somebody wave? And you were like,
oh my god. And then I think Kenny couldn't see
or did see it in his camera.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I have no idea. I don't remember that, but I
remember we were just dumbfounded because A it was happening.
B We were like, holy crap, it's three point thirty.
It's occurring. And it was the most unsettling.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Weird visual experience I think we have ever had in
terms of like showing up at the right place at
the right time.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's almost it reminds me of Baba Duke before Baba Duke, right,
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And I just remember
like being like, Okay, we saw and it disappeared. It
slowly kind of vanished on its own dissipated time.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It was there for long enough. It was there for minutes,
I feel like, but we literally ran up there and looked.
I remember like going like we're like.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, we tried to recreate it. We tried to be like, okay, well,
what what was it? Was it a curtain? Was it
a was it our eyes playing track? And no, it
was not.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
And we both saw we both saw it, and I
don't I don't understand it. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I mean, I don't know if like we manifested.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That because we, you know, had been put in this
position for it to happen and we sort of did that,
or if it actually showed up.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But beyond trying to figure out what it was, it
was very very very very creepy.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
It was well it was so funny too, because obviously
we were very tired and we were probably like, you know,
whining a little bit about having to stay so late.
But I just remember, like we settle and then we
look up and like the lights are out and we're
both like is that? What is that? What I think
it is? Like do you see that?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Do?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And I remember Kenny saw it, and I feel like
you can see it because on the show, I feel
like you can see it in like they act like
you can't, but I'm like I see it, Like I
feel like you can see it on the show. But
maybe I'm just hallucining. I don't know, but we stared
at it.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Or maybe it's just burned. Maybe it's burned into your
memory so that when you watch. I'll have to watch
the episode later and see if I can see it.
What if it just all automatically comes back every time
we watch the episode.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's like an.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Ever we're gonna dream of it. But I just remember.
I remember being awake very quickly. All of a sudden.
We were like, oh my gosh, new renewed vigor, Like
we are, adrenaline is pumping, and they you know, and
and and the producer can hear it, they can't see it,
and they're kind of like, all right, we got that.
And we're like, no, we're not done. We're gonna go
(25:20):
up there now. It's like five am, because we're like
we had to run up there and figure and it
was like you can't just run up to the balcony.
You have to like go through all these like you know, corridors,
and like we had to get doors open and try
to recreate this. And we figured out I remember because
it was standing like next to a doorway and we
figured out it was like six and a half feet
(25:40):
tall by the height for sure, like of you or
whoever we had stand up there for reference. It was
this very tall and I feel like I remember hat
being present as well, like the whole thing. Yes, and
the whole thing was just Baba Duke.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
It was literally Babba Duke before Baba Duke. I've never
seen it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So oh, I know what it looks like. Though you
have to see it. It scary.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I have to see it.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Well you know why it reminds you, So I'll okay,
So the whole if I get if you're listening and
you know, Boba do the movie by like the back
of your hand, don't don't at me in the DMS
because I kind of remember, but I kind of don't.
I believe it's sort of like a imaginary friend or
it was. That's how they're playing it off in this
(26:31):
movie spoiler aly, and then it shows up and it's
like walking around and being crazy and it like follows them.
So this is the weirdest thing. So remember, Okay. So
I sometimes do these zoomed things with fans and followers
where we just chat. And there was this woman that
I was talking to recently. This happened maybe a couple
(26:52):
months ago, December actually, for Christmas, and she's talking about
Cincinnati Music Hall because she lives in Cincinnati. And I'm
talking about this story. And as I'm talking about this story,
I'm doodling. I'm really into pencils these.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Days, so I have like a blank piece of paper.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And I'm sort of doodling what I remember seeing. And
as I'm drawing the circle of the head and putting
in this like weird mouth and the arms and the
lanky I realize this is gonna sound strange, but I
realize that I am drawing something that I used to
draw as a kid all the time. Like all of
(27:33):
a sudden, I'm looking at this drawing and I'm going,
oh my god, I've drawn this before.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
And it literally is something.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
That I used to draw as a kid because I
was into like comic strips and I wanted to make
this character like into a comic strip or something.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And it has long arms and weird crazy fingers.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It didn't have a mouth, right, so like if it
had a mouth, it looked similar, and I was like,
I don't know what about it sat with me for
a moment, but I got really nervous about it, like
it's something clicked between my childhood and seeing this thing again.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
And I don't know if it's like following us.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
I don't know, because remember that time we did the
basement episode of Gindrid Spirits and we thought that something
was following us around.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yes, well we had like we had in season one
of Kindred. We had the same EVP and multiple locations,
and it would say, Amy Adam as.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So what if what if this thing and the thing
that happened to you when you were a kid and
you saw in the woods. What if these things are
the same and it's just following us around it.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I don't want to think about that.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Since the beginning of being kids and for some reason
our trajectory like we got together, we started working together,
and it just but the universe knew from the beginning,
you know how the universe throws you weird stuff. What if?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I did not expect to say this podcast. I was like, well,
I talk about that cool thing is insane music Hall.
But now there's a you know, six and a half
foot tall, scary, smiling man with a top hat with
long arms and fingers that follows us around and waves
very slowly so.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And I wrote down as soon as I got off
the zoom with her, I stared at that picture and
I'll have to show it to you.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
But I because I.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Stared at that photo, and I just wrote the phrase
who are you? Question mark right, And I left it
alone because I'm like, who are you? And I gave
it out to the universe to be like, Okay, if
you're if you're coming and going and you're being around
us for whatever reason, who are you?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
My dude?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Well, when this airs, you'll have to post a photo
of your drawing so you can describe to everybody what
we saw.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Oh god, it's so weird because it's just I don't know.
And you know what's crazy is I had not thought
about that character. I should draw it all the time.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Like on my notebooks as a kid, like in middle
school and like whatever, but then I didn't think about it,
Like I have not thought about that drawing or that
little character that I drew since the last day that
I did it, way back, you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Know whatever, how many years thirty five years ago.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
So now I'm like, let's talk about the Cincinnati Music
Hall moment, and it brings it all back to you.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So it's so bizarre.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
It's one of those weird synchronicity moments coming around that's crazy.
It's weird because I went back to Cincinnati Music Hall
because I did a show there a year before last,
but it wasn't in the main I did it in
the ballroom, which is a really cool space, and it
sold out, which was amazing. But my dressing room was
kind of in this like back corner area and it
(30:50):
was very spooky. It wasn't like a traditional dressing room.
And I remember, like I was sitting in there by myself,
and I was already kind of nervous because like the
show would sell out, and then they would because it
was the ballroom, then they would just rearrange the tables
and add more seats and so it kept getting bigger
and bigger and bigger, and it was one of the
(31:10):
biggest crowds I'd done. Like, so I was already nervous,
but then I was in this weird dressing room and
all of a sudden, I remembered what we saw there,
and I was like transported back and I was like,
oh my gosh, that thing is like walking around in
this place somewhere. And then I started like I started
(31:31):
thinking like, what if I'm doing my talk and he's
standing in the back. I started thinking about this right
before I'm about to go on stage in front of
nine hundred people, like and I was like what if
I was just like, it's the dark and I'm doing
my talk and all of a sudden, I see that
man back there just waving at me, like what would
I do? You know that crept in to my Like
(31:53):
that did not happen, thank goodness, but I did think
about it. It sounds like a scene from a horror movie,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
No, it is. And then what's weird? Is it came?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I mean, obviously you're in the space, but this experience
is one of those that we had that sort of
sneaks up on you when you least expect it, like
all of a sudden you think about it, or it
comes out of nowhere, and every.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Time it happens, it's almost like we're reliving it.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah again, all the feelings come back, all the things
come back, and like, you know, I know, we just
talked about a lot that we would hate staying up
till three point thirty.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
But I would probably I would probably tempt that again.
Maybe I'll take an afternoon nap just.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
So that we could see if we could have the
experience again, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
You know, Also, why are we so against just like
waking up early and starting to investigate? You know, I
was thinking about that. I'm like, yeah, what if you
just had like a you know, three am start time,
and you just woke up at two and you went
to Betterly.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, you went at five o'clock.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
But there's a lot of other things that have happened
there though, too, Like even when we were there, I
remember distinctly there was a footsteps situation. There's so many
sounds in that place. People were hearing voices, they were
loud bangs, there were doors slamming, Like I mean, I
don't know how much you remember about the history, but
it was literally built, like they found so many bones,
(33:31):
even just as recently as like twenty sixteen. I don't
know if you remember, but when they took us on
the tour, they showed us the elevator that I was
so terrified of because they used a big elevator. Oh
and so when they were constructing that elevator, they found
a ton of bones at the bottom of it. Like
when they were digging up for so yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Like human bones, human human bones.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, so they had they reburied a lot of them.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
But I remember the music hall like I can see
it in my head. So I remember how grand it is,
and I remember how like just so cool it was
to be there on the space like to be I
don't know in that in that environment, but I don't
I guess I don't recall the.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Human How do you forget human bones?
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Well, it's because there's like a six and a half
foot tall ghost man waving at you, and you just
everything else disappears in that moment.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
He's the one that's hiding the boat. He's going to
take our bones at some point.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Would the bone collector?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Oh god, see now I'm terrified.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
The bone collector. And people are gonna be.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Like, listen, if you are watching, if you're listening to
this episode of Hanted Road, we need fan art.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
We need fan art of this creepy.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Y Yes we do, creepy dude, Yes, we did send
it our way and I'll post mine.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Oh my gosh, I can't believe you're encouraging this.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Come on, listen.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
I want people's worst nightmares to be fulfilled at this
point because if we had to see it, they're going
to see it.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Well, they should also do the fan art of us
seeing it, so it should be like a oh my.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
God, oh a comic strip. I've talked about comic ship.
What if we did?
Speaker 3 (35:13):
We need a comic strip of us being kind of grumpy, sleepy.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
And then wide awake and weird. Baba duke man, there
we is. That's it.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I see, I can see it now. Okay, So, but
I do want to talk about my brain is a
broken note. I do want to talk about now while
I have you, because it's really exciting. I saw that
the paperback of your book came out recently. What's going
on with that?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yes, so paperback for Goodbye Hello, Processing Grief and Understanding
Death through the Paranormal just released on March eleventh. There,
even if you have the book, there is a brand
new chapter in chapter thirteen my favorite number.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
And there's also a workbook.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Journal that I created for or the topics that go
along with each chapter, so you can write in the
book as your own little journal, put your own thoughts down,
and you know, help process what you're reading and what
you're feeling and thinking. And the new chapter is actually
a story something that happened to me when I was
recording the audiobook. So the book was already in print.
(36:19):
There was no going back. But the publisher said, you know,
if this makes it to paperback, will you write will
you write another chapter for it? And I was like absolutely,
so spoiler alert, you can't. You don't know the story,
so you get the book, so.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Even if you've read it. But yeah, it's just dropped.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
And I'm on the cover and I might regret that
when I'm ninety eight, still selling the book.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
But the last the new chapter is called The Bone Collector.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, it's called get Ready. Get Ready?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Oh yeah, available wherever books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble,
all the fun places.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I ordered a copy yesterday. It's not here yet, but
I ordered a copy yesterday.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, thank you. Now.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I love to support my friends, even when they give
me free books, I still order it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Always make sure listen.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I love to see our books trending side by side, you.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Know, are they oh, food to.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Die For and Food to die For? And the paperback
and then Steve Gonzolvez is there.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
His book is there.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
So it's fun to see it's fun to see all
of us on the chats as they say.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I love that. I love that so much. What else
do you have going on? Anything you want to tell
the world about.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Oh well, I mean not really.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I mean maybe we'll do this again and then I'll
have more time. Now.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I know you have things you can't talk about yet.
But it was also just your birthday, and I did
wish you happy for it was, but happy birthday again.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Eventually I will Eventually I will pick up the Christmas present,
which is the birthday present, which also is the birthday present.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I'm going to send you a picture of it because
I got you the perfect gift and I have been
sitting on it for six So I got him as
present for Christmas and it was perfect. And I've seen
Adam probably six times since christs thank you forgetting to
give it to you. And so now I'm like, well,
now it's your birthday present. But it is literally the
(38:11):
perfect gift. My friend had it in his house and
I was like, I have to get that for Ben
and Adam, well for Adam and Ben Rose for both
of you. Really, so thank you you.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, all right, well it's lovely chatting with you. I'm
glad we could take this little walk down memory lane,
even though slightly terrifying, and I'm going to have nightmares,
but I appreciate you, and I love you, and hopefully
I will talk to you again very soon.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yes, let's get together soon.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
By the time the Cincinnati Music Hall was built, the
grounds were already choked with the bones of long dead people.
But hope for the future rose up from tragedy, and
a hall was built to celebrate community, art and culture.
Perhaps today the spirits there can take solace in life
halls that ring with music, laughter, and optimism. I'm Amy Brunei,
(39:05):
and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production
of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Haunted
Road is hosted and written by me Amy Brunne, with
(39:26):
additional research by Cassandra de Alba. This show is edited
and produced by supervising producer Rima el Kali, with executive
producers Aaron Menke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. Learn more
about this show over at Grimandmild dot com, and for
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts,
(39:49):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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