July 27, 2022 • 38 mins
Some might call the Star of India, a historic trade ship, the most cursed boat in the water. In its 159 years of sailing, the ship has been trapped in the ice in Alaska and run aground in Hawaii, and has seen cyclones, collisions with other ships and a crew mutiny that ended in 17 men being sentenced to hard labor. Special Guest: Britt Griffith
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Here is an excerpt taken from the Dayton Daily News
(00:22):
Data December. In a few days, the Star of India,
reminder of by gone sailing days, will be taken on
a little coastwise cruise from her quiet mooring in San
Francisco Bay down to San Diego. Then the one word
Fini will be written in the log book and her
sailing days will be at an end. It will mean
(00:43):
the retirement of what seamen hold to be the most
famous sailing vessel afloat. She will be anchored in a
tiny inland ocean, a feature in a proposed five acre
zoological garden in San Diego. This little coastwise voyage means
far more to the average sailor than the layman, aalizes.
The sailor still has that inherited feel of the sea.
(01:04):
He delights in Viking stories and anything that sails before
the wind enthuses him. He knows his ships as a
turfman knows his horses, and records count for as much
with the sailor as with the lover of fleetness in
the equine world. The older sailors along the Pacific coast
delight in pointing out that the keel of the Star
of India was laid down sixty three years ago by
(01:24):
Gilson and Company of Ramsey, Scotland. She was christened U
Turpi for the English Australian trade and old waterfront captains
at San Francisco recall her tall mass stenciled against the
skyline in those days when the golden gate never closed
on a processional of white sails. Now she is to
be rescued from slow disintegration in some hidden cove off
(01:45):
the Pacific coast. A place of honor has been assigned
her and what is expected to someday prove one of
the most interesting spots in America. Glass tanks will replace
the bunks on which slept the hardened men who for
half a century brave the elements of seven seas. The
Star of India will be um an aquarium. Even though
forever beached and her sails furled for all time, she
will still be a part of the sea. Except that's
(02:08):
not what happened at all. So let's head to San
Diego and find out what became of the Star of India.
I'm Amy Brunei and welcome to Haunted Road. Some might
(02:30):
call the Star of India a historic trade ship, the
most cursed boat in the water, and it's one nine
years of sailing. The ship has been trapped in the
ice in Alaska and run aground in Hawaii, and has
seen cyclones, collisions with other ships, and a crew mutiny
that ended in seventeen men being sentenced to hard labor.
But others might call it the luckiest ship ever built.
(02:51):
Through all these cataclysmic events, the Star of India survived.
In fact, she's still sailing today. Whether she's sailing with
icy handed ghosts of sailors who died aboard, though, is
a bird debate. There are rumors of strange apparitions and
moving objects below her decks. Maybe it's because of all
the tragic deaths aboard, or maybe it's because the ship
(03:11):
is the oldest actively sailing boat in the world. When
she was first built, the Star of India had a
different name and a different purpose. She was also a
marvel of her time, an iron holed ship in an
era when most boats were constructed of wood. Relatively small,
the boat measures two hundred five feet long by thirty
five feet wide and has three masts. Originally called the
(03:34):
Utterpi after the Greek muse of music, the ship was
built in eighteen sixty three in the Isle of man
An Island in the Irish Sea between Great Britain and Ireland.
In its early sailings, the Utterpi was used to sail
jute from India, or at least that's what she was
supposed to do. Her first two sailings were nearly disastrous,
filled with so much calamity that she nearly sank and
(03:56):
lost all her crew. The uterpis first sailing left Liverpool
on January ninth, eighteen sixty four, under the command of
Captain William's story. Almost immediately after setting sail, disaster struck.
In the middle of the night, the Uturpy collided with
an unlit Spanish break off the coast of Whales. The
crash destroyed the jib boom. For you non sailing folk
out there like me, that's the large extension off the
(04:18):
bow that helps the sales maintain a well projected shape
to catch the wind and speed up the ship. The
damage was so extensive that seventeen of the ship's thirty
crew members refused to continue working until the ship turned
into port for repairs. Here's where that mutiny comes in.
According to British sailing history site Mighty sees the Uturpi
put into Holy Head Whales on the fifteenth and these
(04:41):
men were tried by local magistrates, each being condemned to
prison for fourteen days with hard labor after an expert
witness stated that the repairs could easily have been made
at ze. After five days of repairs, the ship embarked
again on January, this time with more than half the
original crew replaced, arriving in Calcutta around May. Her second
(05:02):
sailing was no more peaceful. After having successfully sailed from
England to India and secured a new load of cargo,
the Uturpi departed India and was caught in a cyclone
in the Bay of Bengal. This time she lost her
top masts and barely made it back to port. Just
after On August seven, eighteen sixty six, Captain's Story died
from what the BBC described as an unknown tropical disease
(05:24):
and was buried at sea with all that bad energy
attached to the ships. No surprise, her original owners sold
her after that voyage. After changing hands again in eighteen
seventy one, the Uturpie took on a different kind of
cargo people. In the years that followed, she made twenty
one trips around the world, bringing immigrants to new lands
in search of better lives. Most of the passengers were
(05:46):
from the United Kingdom heading to New Zealand, though she
also made voyages to California, Chile and Australia. But true
to the Uturpies history, those voyages were challenging. The Maritime
Museum of San Diego Go, where the Star of India
is now docked, says of that time it was rugged
voyaging with a little iron ship battling through terrific gales.
(06:08):
The ship's log describes the vessel laboring and rolling in
a most distressing manner during those storms. At the shortest
a voyage to New Zealand took one hundred days and
one hundred forty three days for its longest trip. Both
the crew and the passengers suffered during these difficult voyages.
Everyone ate a measly diet of hard tack, which is
a dense hard biscuit, and salt junk, which is dried
(06:31):
salted beef or pork. Many suffered from all the mare,
a particular kind of seasickness caused by rolling waves characterized
by nausea and dizziness, and other maladies caused by months
cooped up below deck. They were a tough lot, the
museum describes, drawn from the working classes of England, Ireland
and Scotland, and most went on to prosper in New Zealand.
(06:53):
Many babies were born to immigrants on these voyages, including
one given the middle name Uturpi and one partially named
after Captain Theoe Phillips. Many people also died, though not
as many as you might assume based on how difficult
some of the sailings were, but there were significant losses.
Seamen died of consumption, dysentery and pneumonia. One had a
(07:15):
seizure and fell from a mass to his death. Another
was accidentally crushed to death by his crewmates. A crewman
was in the chain locker where the anchor chain is stored,
where he shouldn't have been, and he became stuck as
his mates brought in the anchor to prepare to sail.
The noisy machinery masked the sound of the screams of
the trapped victim as he was crushed by the enormously
(07:36):
heavy chain. Child passengers were especially vulnerable. Babies were still
born on the ship, Infants perished, and families lost very
young children more than once. One of the most tragic
losses befell Emily and Charles brad from Middlesex, England, who
were traveling on the Uterpi with their four children. On
the six month voyage. Two of the kids, eight year
(07:58):
old Emily and two year old Jesse, passed away. Another
family faced a similarly horrific situation. Mary and Thomas Osborne
traveled aboard the Uturpi with their nine children, five sons
and four daughters. Four year old George died at sea,
followed by infant Thomas Jr. Mary gave birth to a
baby girl aboard the ship, but the newborn passed away
(08:19):
shortly after. The Journal of San Diego History wrote about
a collection of diaries and letters donated by New Zealanders
descended from passengers on the Uturpi. The journal describes these
letters by saying they tell us of yards and sales
riven by shrieking gales, of mountainous seas and vast icebergs,
of standing off and on before barren, iron bound coasts,
(08:41):
of the immigrants, hunger and their battles with ship rats
and each other of men swept off the bowsprit into
the churnings of the seat, of a captain's gory suicide,
and of the great joy and relief of all hands
on sighting land. Their words are the stark testimony of
those who sought new lives against all odds, braving hazards
(09:01):
men would think impossible today. In nineteen o one, the
ship was sold again, purchased by the Alaska Packer Association
to service the state's salmon canneries. For over twenty years,
she carried fishermen and canary workers, as well as coal
and other supplies, from Oakland, California, to Alaska, and would
(09:22):
return laden with canned salmon. It was during this time
that the Uturpi became the Star of India, so named
to be consistent with the rest of the association's fleet.
In nineteen six the Star of India was steered toward
another new path. A group of friends in San Diego
bartered for the boat, aiming to build a museum and
aquarium around her. The project was sidelined because of the
(09:44):
Great depression in World War Two, and the ship lay
dormant until nineteen fifty seven, when renovations finally started, though
they took a long time to complete. In nineteen seventy six,
the Star of India was put to sea again. Now
moored at the Maritime Museum of and Diego, the Star
of India is a floating history lesson, welcoming visitors to
walk her decks and descend below to see what life
(10:06):
would have been like on the ship up until she
made one single annual sail a year with a crew
of volunteers from the museum who trained all year to
be able to operate The Star of India on her
day long departure from her mooring. The museum, though still
describes her as an active sailing ship. In addition to
all of that, she holds many distinctions. She's on the
(10:28):
National Register of Historic Places and is designated a National
Historic Landmark. She's the fourth oldest ship in the United
States and the oldest iron holed merchant ships still afloat.
She's also the oldest ship in the world still sailing regularly.
Unlike many other preserved or restored ships, her whole cabins
and equipment are all largely original. Maybe it's because so
(10:51):
much of the ship is still original that there are
so many rumors of hauntings and strange activities aboard the
Star of India. One such story comes from the story
of John Campbell, a teenage stowaway who snuck his way
into the crew in four Shortly after being put to work,
Campbell was high in the rigging and lost his footing,
falling one feet to the deck below. Both his legs
(11:13):
were crushed, but Campbell survived three long days before he
died and was buried at sea. Visitors who are near
the mast Campbell fell from will sometimes report feeling the
touch of a cold hand. In the ship's galley, where
the food was prepared, people still report smelling freshly baked bread,
even though it's been nearly a century since anything was
baked in that kitchen. Visitors have also claimed to have
(11:36):
seen pots and pans above the stove moving, even though
the ship is sitting calmly in the water. The chain locker,
where the crew member was crushed to death by equipment
is said to be a paranormally active spot, and the
sailor's quarters are also plagued with spiritual activity after witnessing
much death and suffering. Crewmen who were sick or injured
spent their last days in that area, and visitors report
(11:57):
feeling cold spots in those areas, being overcome with residual
fear and sadness in the space. To talk more about
the hauntings on board the Star of India, I have
called in my old friend. You might know him, Britt Griffith.
Britta and I go way back, way way back, and
we once start on TV's Ghost Hunters together. He was
(12:18):
the first person who told me of the Star of India,
and after having investigated it multiple times, he's got some
crazy stories to tell. That's coming up after the break.
All right, So I am currently on the line with
(12:39):
one of my oldest dearest friends. And I don't mean
like old, I mean like we've been friends for a
very long time. I well, I was trying to not
call you old and then it just kind of but
I mean you're not old, clearly. I mean my oldest
friend is in like we go a wait, wait, we
(13:01):
back like pre TV, pre ghost Hunters. You were the
one that really introduced me to the Star of India,
and I know you investigated it quite a bit. So
I was like, I'm going to bring Britt. This is
my chance to bring Britt on. So Britt Griffith is
a ghost Hunter's alumni paranormal investigator, like I said, very
dear friend, and we have basically, I mean, I feel
(13:22):
like our two teams way back in the day. Like
you were working on a Southern California team, I was
on a Northern California team, and we were all like
Taps family teams and god well, but actually, honestly, Amy,
we we we were on teams before Ghost Hunters even
hit the air in October of two thousand four. So
(13:44):
many people think I did the paranormal because I was
on Teaving. The reality was we were doing this long
before that show was on the air. Absolutely. And what
I loved is that our teams worked together was so
because we were NorCal you were so cowed. We would
come together for like the Central California cases, Fresno, California.
(14:04):
We did a lot of Fresno and Baker's Field and clothing.
I remember we investigated like this crazy Mexican restaurant once.
Actually there's a story on that one. Okay, So anyone
who listens to this podcast knows that I love to
share stories, and so let me tell you, I do
know Britt very well. And when Britt does something, Britt
(14:26):
does not do something halfway. Britt goes all in. And
so as you became a paranormal investigator, you bought and
designed and researched every single piece of like paranormal technical
research equipment you could get your hands on. That's how
(14:47):
you ended up on gh AS, like helping with all
the tech. And so I remember the first time I
met Britt. He pulled up in literally an ambulance that
he bought, filled with ghost gear, and I was, who
is this guy? Right? So the first you were like,
this dude's weird. And then you had a hearse to
(15:08):
which you did not use for the ghost of gear,
but you had, and I was like, all right, this
guy is office rocker. But I will never forget you.
When we were investigating that Mexican restaurant, you were like,
you know, let's all like car pool. I think we
all stayed at like a local hotel or something. We
car pooled. And so I wrote in the ambulance and
I sat in the back and I buckled my seatbelt
(15:31):
and I was like this is such a novelty, this
is so cool whatever, And then we get there and
I'm like, I can't get my seatbelt off. My seatbelt
is not my seatbelt is not coming undone, and I'm
like sitting there, I'm kind of struggling with it. And
then the door opens and there's Britt and he's got
a camera and he's like, Amy, what's going on? You
got a problem, but oh are you stuck? And I'm
(15:53):
like I'm stuck in my seatbelt, like and you wouldn't
help me, you just kept filming me. And so then
fast forward to like a year, so he has this
video of me. So fast forward to a year or
two later. We're on the Queen Mary for like I
think it was a Dave Schrader event. Jason and Grant
from Ghost Hunters are lecturing and we were dear friends
(16:14):
and I was helping them with their podcast at the time,
and so their lecturing and they called me into the
lecture hall and they're like introducing me, like, hey, this
is Amy. She's our producer for our podcast. And they're
like Amy, Oh, we wanted to show you something, and
they played the video of me stuck in the ambulance
in front of hundreds of people. Yeah, that was the
(16:39):
good old days. But we had some great times. And
that ambulance was very convenient because it carried all the
equipment and it gave us a place to sit outside
of the location and not in the weather. Oh totally.
It was like the it was like our taps fan basically,
but I actually felt like the ambulance was kind of
more conducive to that because it had all these different compartments. So,
(17:02):
and you were very organized with it all. And so
obviously there were a lot of, you know, Ghostbusters jokes
made at our expense, but we are very used to
that by now, so that's par for the course. If
we're not getting the Ghostbusters joke, then we're doing something wrong. Yeah,
And to be honest with you, I wish we had
Ghostbusters paychecks because then we wouldn't have to work for
(17:23):
a living. That's very true. So but that's okay, that's okay.
I think we're we're good. We're good. We've had we
had the experiences, so okay, So tell me, do you, like,
when did you first start investigating the Star of India
and how did that come about? So the team that
I was on Obviously we were southern California, and leader
(17:43):
of our team actually lived in San Diego, and he
had a relationship with the manager or somebody who had
something to do with that Maritime museum because they have
like seven eight ships down there now, and uh, they
had always had ghost stories from the night Watch. We've
always had a hard time keeping night security on those
ships because not only the Star of India that's there,
but that Berkeley ship is there, and then there was
(18:05):
a Russian submarine that was there, and all three of
them are haunted. And so the night manager this and
this was right about the first season of ghost Hunters,
which gave the manager enough courage to actually talk about it, because,
I mean, most people don't realize, but before ghost Hunters
came on the air, talking about the paranormal was was
a hush hush thing or you were crazy, and trying
to get people to let us into buildings was a
(18:26):
pain because they would just laugh at us. But ghost
Hunters happened, so the manager knew that Dave was into
the paranormal world, and he finally reached out to Dave
and said, hey, you know, we just had another night
security guy quit because of ghosts, which I don't believe in,
but you know, I know you're into it. Do you
think you can come out with your team and blah
blah blah. And that's how we got in there was
because they couldn't keep their night security. They kept losing
(18:49):
employees and reached out to Day and then Day was like, yeah, sure,
and we went down and did it. And I mean
the first night we were there, back then before ghost Hunters,
when we would go to a place, the spirit wald
wasn't used to being acknowledged, reached out to, or like
we were doing trying to make contact. Most of the
time the spirit wal will be seen or heard, people
would freak and run. But the Star video the first
time we were there, we had activity. We had interactually
(19:10):
had K two hits, we had E d P, we
had it was like run up the bat. It was active,
which was really cool because normally takes a couple of
nights for the other side, whatever we're dealing with, to
get used to us reaching out to them and then
then going right, I guess we can kind of reach
out back and then the evidence collecting starts. Really No
one takes a couple of days. Today now it's like
it's almost like the spirit world expects to be talked
(19:30):
to almost, so it's a little different now. Yeah, No,
that actually makes sense because I feel like you guys
are probably the first ones to actually investigate the ship,
and there's been paranormal reports coming out of there for
a very long time. The history is very interesting. It's
had many different incarnations, so it makes sense that it
would be very haunted. But I'm just guessing that those spirits,
(19:52):
you know, had gone decades just kind of trying to
get attention or trying to get someone to reach out
to them, and then finally you guys get there, and
so yeah, it makes sense that right off the bat
they would start trying to interact. And see you did
obviously you did the Ghost Hunters investigations, but I can't
remember did you go there with your team on on
your own or was that was your experience the show. No,
(20:14):
it was just when we went with Ghost Hunters, But
we were there. I feel like we were there for
three nights because we were also doing the Berkeley next
Door and so we were just like normally we were
there for a couple of nights with g JR. One night,
but I think we were there for I remember being
in San Diego for quite a while for those cases. Yeah,
(20:34):
and we were there two and a half weeks. Yeah, yeah,
And so I do remember it very distinctly, and I
remember hearing footsteps, I remember seeing a shadow figure downstairs.
And this was one of the first cases that they
So I had already investigated in Alameda and in Clovis,
(20:55):
and I thought I was going back to work in
my project manager job, and they were like, hey, want
to go to San Diego. So I was like, I guess. So,
so this was, like, I want to say, my third
or fourth case. It's not the easiest place to investigate
because it's downtown, it's on the water, and it's an
old ship. It makes a lot of noises, but it's
(21:16):
steel hold or whatever, so it's not like a just
a wooden ship creaking and stuff, so you do have
some control. But still it was a challenge and I
remember thinking at the time, I was like, how are
we going to do this? But we did it and
it worked out, and you're right, it is a happy
is cast iron. The steel hole, which is the only
reason why that ship is around today because at the
(21:36):
time most of the ships were made of wood and
then that rots. But the only reason that ship still
afloat today, still sells today, it's a hundred and sixty
two years old, is because the whole was made so
thick of steel and we get to experience it today.
Most people don't realize it, but back then, the ships
were made of wood because it was the most economical
way to do it. But those ships, you know, they
don't last a hundred sixty years, like you know, Star
(21:58):
Indians a hundred six years old, and the only reason
was because the original owners paid the extra money to
have that extra thick still whole. And she's still around today.
I mean she's literally Costar certified Hunters since two years later,
the world's oldest selling ship on the planet, which is
really kind of cool, and we can investigated and looked for,
I know, And that was one of those kind of
surreal moments for me too. I was like, oh my gosh,
(22:20):
we're investigating this ship. And I actually went back to
San Diego recently just for a stopover when we were
coming back from a vacation in Hawaii, when we stayed
the night there, and I showed it to my daughter
and I was like, that was one of my first
cases on Ghost Hunters. Like, but it's beautiful, like it
she just stands. They light her up and like she's
definitely getting the accolades she deserves. But I don't know
(22:41):
that everybody fully realizes, like what is going on in there?
It is very creepy. I do remember distinctly the footsteps
are a big one, and I know you would experience that.
Was one of the things you told me about before
we even investigated there for Ghost Hunters was the footsteps situation.
Now do you remember what you experienced there with footsteps?
Because I do, but you should probably tell the story.
(23:02):
Well again, I was working with Jane Grant. But we
hear footsteps all the time, and we hear ghostly sounds,
and we hear a lot of door shutting and when
but what what blows my mind about the Star of India.
And this actually happened on tape. You can go to
the show and watch it. We heard the footsteps. We
were in the in between deck they called the tween deck,
which is a really low ceiling deck kind of captain's
(23:23):
quarters and whatnot, and we heard the footsteps and I
put my hands on this what was the ceiling for me,
but the floor for the top deck, and I could
feel them walking towards me, and it was like it's
like they were distant and as you hear them, they're
they're soft, they get louder, and then they get soft again.
We'll think of that as you put your hands on
the floor or the ceiling. And it was like soft, harder, harder, harder,
(23:46):
hard right on the top of me, and then soft
again as it went over me. And for me it
was like, holy crap, I got I felt another thing.
I hear that. I felt that, And then it spurred
thousand more questions of so this thing has mass that
it can actually impact the wood and vibrate the wood
(24:08):
to where I can feel it. So there's so there's
mass there. So does that mean this ghost could you know,
move an object? Oh well, maybe that's how they're doing it.
Can the ghost hurt somebody like you know, punch, roll, push, whatever?
It was so many questions that blew my mind. And
then when we finally went up top to see what
was up top, it was the path that the wheelman
(24:28):
would walk to go to the original Star of India.
Wheel It's moved now, it's not where it originally was at,
but back in the day, that footpath and where it
stopped was right at the original wheelhouse for the Star
of India, which makes perfect sense. So we had this
amazing experience that we could hear, that we could feel,
and then it actually logically made sense for that activity
(24:51):
to be where it was at. And that's the need
that the really cool, above par awesome thing about the
Star of India is the activity lines up with what
was going on back in the day, even though it's
kind of changed a little bit. Yeah, and that was
one of the first times that it kind of dawned
on me, like there are different kinds of footsteps you
can experience as an investigator, because that's when we started
(25:12):
using geophones. Now, geophones are a device that will light
up when they sense vibration, and so sometimes you'll hear
footsteps and you'll just hear footsteps and there's no vibration.
They're just kind of like these phantom footsteps. But other
times you'll hear footsteps and no one is there and
they will come like they will happen, and you'll hear
creaking of floorboards or you'll actually feel the floor kind
(25:36):
of moving as though someone is walking towards you. And
that's what you experienced there. But I don't think before
that I had kind of realized that there was a difference,
or even new to look for a difference. I don't
know necessarily what that means either as far as like
what does that mean for that spirit? If a spirit
can manifest enough to make something move, is that a
(25:57):
stronger spirit or is that more of an intelligent spirit
versus just kind of phantom footsteps that don't affect the
surround You know, these are all questions that come up,
and so something like that we get very excited about.
And I remember all of us being like, what is happening?
And also we went back and we checked the DVR
we had. It was very easy to cover the Star
(26:18):
of India because it's not a huge vessel, and so
we were able to like make sure we had every
um deck covered with the camera and there was no
one up there when that happened. No, there was not.
And the edicol thing was is that when Grant went
up to recreate it, it felt exactly the same. Right now,
do you remember what the night watchmen were experiencing? Specifically
(26:40):
that was making them quit by by chance. It was visual,
it was seeing stuff, shadows, ghostly type figures, and it
was sounds. It was audible talking sounds and chains rattling. Yeah,
I mean that that makes sense. And it's I always
we hear from night watchman or security guard quite often
(27:00):
because they're there in the dead of night when everything's quiet,
and I can't imagine signing on for that job. And
what kind of surprises you get in a place like
the Star of India. Now, what other experiences have you
either had there or have you heard of having or
I'm sorry, what other experiences have you had? You know
what I mean, what other experiences have you had there?
(27:21):
Have you heard of other people having there? Well? The
other thing that I mean when we were there for
the show, for the people that want to go watch
the show, I mean, there was those shadows that were
happening that we actually documented on camera. The you know,
the shadow getting in between the light and and the
cameras of the light would dim out, and that we
were we were seeing with our eyes and the camera
documented it. And we know no one was there because
(27:43):
as skilled investigators were smart enough to experience the activity,
take it all in and then immediately get to the
area and just try to debunk it. So we were
able to get in the area, there's no one there.
The shadow movement going on. And I don't know if
this is just science of the motion of the ocean
or whatever. But do you remember that, you know the
(28:05):
ropes hanging with the sandbags, and then there would be
like four of them lined up and only one rope
sandbag would be swinging while the other three were still
still perfectly still not moving at all. I mean, what
was that all about? Why would just one sandbag on
a rope hanging rock and the other three that are
next to it not rock. What is that all about?
(28:25):
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. I mean
that could be movement, of course, but also on the
ship stock. But I guess it is moving a little bit. Now,
remind me and if I get this wrong, we'll just
cut This was the star of India that what had
the the popping shrimp underneath it? Or was that? Yes? Yes,
(28:46):
I just remember being deep in the bottom of this
ship and there are these weird shrimp and so these
are the things that have to deal with as a
paranormal investigator. There were these these popping shrimp. And I
went down there and I was like, what is happening
to this? I thought the thing was sinking, but they
all night just popped so loudly. And if you didn't
(29:09):
know what those were, I don't know what you would
think was happening or what you would think you were experiencing.
I mean, and that, you know, again part of being
an investigator having to discern between you know, popping shrimp
and ghosts. But I mean, I do think that when
you're investigating a place like that, you do have to
deal with extraordinary circumstances. My local team we had investigated
(29:31):
it before. We knew about that, so we let Jane
Grant know so that But I don't think they told
you guys because they want you to experience it first.
Or did you know when you were going down there.
I can't remember how that ruled out. Oh yeah, okay,
so they let you go in blind and then they
explained it. But yeah, we knew about that ahead of time,
and that was the nice The nice thing about the
show is some of the some of the places we
(29:52):
went were kind of pre screened for us, so we
can rule a bunch of stuff out and not waste time,
so we could look for actual activity. But the cool
think about the popping shrimp that most people don't know
is the popping sound. It's something in it at the
tail the foot. I don't know something, but it's moving.
It's breaking the speed of sound. So that's what that
pop sound is. Whatever's in it is going so fast
(30:13):
is breaking the sound barrier. So bizarre. That is the
only place I've ever experienced the popping shrimp, and I've
never experienced it since. But yeah, it makes perfect sense
that they would not have told me. I barely knew
I was going to that investigation. I just kind of
appeared in San Diego one day and I was like,
I guess, I'm this is what I'm doing for the
rest of my life. You are? I mean, I knew
(30:36):
i'd be looking for ghosts. I just didn't know. I
kind of just assumed it would be like, Oh, I'll
just do a few episodes of this show ghost Hunters
yet and and then I never went home again. So yeah,
I do think there's just so much lore around ships
and their ghosts, and I almost feel like that adds
to the activity, because I do think that sailors and
(30:58):
people who spend a lot of their life on the
water are just particularly superstitious, and they do put a
lot of stock in kind of the spiritual side of
what they do. And do you think that's why the
Star of India still has so much going on? I
think there's a lot to the Star of India. And
there's there's stuff. Okay, I'm start with the happy stuff first.
(31:18):
So a sailor, the ship to a sailor is it's
is his mother. And the reason that you know, the
lower the superstition is you never have a woman on
a on a ship back then, is because the only
woman in that sailor's life is supposed to be the ship,
not another woman running around the decks, because then that
creates strife among the man, et cetera. But the but
(31:39):
to a sailor, they want to be in the ocean.
They want to be with their woman, which is their ship.
And that's why when they die, if you haven't if
we have a choice to go where we want to go,
a sailor would probably pick their ship. That's where they
want to go. But the Star of India did twenty
something trips around the world before late eighteen eighties, and
(32:02):
that was in the human immigrant trade. They brought families over,
immigrant families. They started bringing them from all over, like
that was the business of the ship. And so there
would be entire families they're including children, and there were
babies born on that ship. And I feel like I
don't think any of us can understand today, well most
(32:23):
of us cannot understand today the desperation of kind of
going into the unknown and getting on a ship like
that with your entire family and just hoping you make
it to the other side. And they ate terribly and
it was miserable, like absolutely miserable, and people did die
on board, people were very sick. Not as many people
died on boards I think people would assume under those conditions,
(32:46):
but that I feel like that desperation leads to some
sort of manifestation of energy, whether or not it is
them they're like in their conscious state, or just that
bit of them that was holding onto so much hope
in that ship. Like I would love to get back
(33:06):
there eventually and do like a more kind of a
longer investigation and find out more about who is actually there.
But a lot of emotion, and it makes complete sense
why it would be haunted. Do you think it's possible
that like a location like the Star of India where
you have so many people going through there and so
many highly emotional experience is happening, whether it's terror or
(33:28):
love of the ship, but that that random energy that's
kind of floating around, that it can kind of connect
to each other and then make coalesce all of its
energy from the various other spirits that are there then
to be able to do those footsteps or to make
that shadow appear or make that voice sound. I mean,
can you think that the spirit world can work on
its side, work together to then send a signal to
(33:51):
our side. I think that that kind of emotion can
even create ghosts, you know, not necessarily, like, but I
do think that it does be come something over time.
And then if you have people touring it every day
and kind of revisiting those experiences and bringing it up
again and again, we're talking about the hauntings again and again. Like,
I do feel like that kind of either keeps it
(34:12):
alive or kind of awakens it. And so I wouldn't
be surprised if they have things going on now. I
know they have not. I think they haven't really done
a lot of investigations. I haven't heard a lot about
ghost tours or anything going on there, but I do
hear of it as being a haunted spot. Whenever I'm
in San Diego, people are like, go to the Star
of India, go to the Whaley House. You know, they
(34:33):
know it's haunted. I just I can't help but wonder
if that has something to do with it, because you
just you do not have ships like that still in
existence that have that went through that same history. Yeah,
I know you don't. And I do know that around
the Halloween time they do do a haunted tour. I
have seen that, but it's it's not like an investigation.
It's more of a guided tour with dose sets, telling
(34:55):
tall tales and entertaining the crowd type of thing. But
you are right. I mean they're at least at least
once a week I get a message from somebody on
the socials. Have you been to the Haunted Star of India,
like a few times. Yeah, it's lower is out there,
And you are right, And and maybe we are energy
about that ship and people that go to that ship
looking for the ghost, that our collective energy is feeding
(35:18):
the spirit side energy, almost like they could plug into
us and then they make happen what they make happen,
which is it's cool and scary at the same time.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Well, hopefully they will
invite us back soon and and yeah, Candred Spirits, that
would be fabulous. I would love to go to San Diego.
So Star of India, if you're listening, we're looking for cases,
(35:38):
so if there's anyone there. But I mean, aside from
aside from that, it has been lovely talking with you.
As always, I do appreciate you taking the time. I
know this interview was not easy because I'm currently in
Europe and so the time change and everything has been bonkers.
But thank you for sticking with me and chatting about
(36:00):
old times and the very haunted Star of India's Hopefully
we can get back there soon. That would be amazing.
I will watch that episode for sure. Well, thank you
again and um yeah, hopefully we'll see each other again soon.
So I hope you and the family are well after
they are and same to you. Safe travels. I can't
wait for your season premiere. Obviously, the Star of India
(36:25):
holds a special place in my Heart having been one
of the first ever cases I did on Ghost Hunters. Well,
I definitely investigated the paranormal prior to my appearance on
your TV screens. Those early years of g H actually
hold a lot of nostalgia for me. That aside, the
Star of India is one of those strange dichotomies in
a tourist world. You have kids happily skipping below deck,
(36:47):
or people once pinned all their hopes and dreams, barely surviving,
just trying to make a better life. You have her
beautiful silhouette backdrop against the iconic San Diego waterfront, with
many probably walking past, not knowing what secrets and energy
the wood and steel holds deep in its bones. Hopefully
the spirits there have found their way, following the star
(37:08):
that was always meant to guide them. I'm Amy Bruney
and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production
of I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey.
(37:31):
Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney,
additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The show is edited and
produced by rema El Kali and supervising producer Josh Thing
and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick.
For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
(37:53):
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Here is an excerpt taken from the Dayton Daily News
(00:22):
Data December. In a few days, the Star of India,
reminder of by gone sailing days, will be taken on
a little coastwise cruise from her quiet mooring in San
Francisco Bay down to San Diego. Then the one word
Fini will be written in the log book and her
sailing days will be at an end. It will mean
(00:43):
the retirement of what seamen hold to be the most
famous sailing vessel afloat. She will be anchored in a
tiny inland ocean, a feature in a proposed five acre
zoological garden in San Diego. This little coastwise voyage means
far more to the average sailor than the layman, aalizes.
The sailor still has that inherited feel of the sea.
(01:04):
He delights in Viking stories and anything that sails before
the wind enthuses him. He knows his ships as a
turfman knows his horses, and records count for as much
with the sailor as with the lover of fleetness in
the equine world. The older sailors along the Pacific coast
delight in pointing out that the keel of the Star
of India was laid down sixty three years ago by
(01:24):
Gilson and Company of Ramsey, Scotland. She was christened U
Turpi for the English Australian trade and old waterfront captains
at San Francisco recall her tall mass stenciled against the
skyline in those days when the golden gate never closed
on a processional of white sails. Now she is to
be rescued from slow disintegration in some hidden cove off
(01:45):
the Pacific coast. A place of honor has been assigned
her and what is expected to someday prove one of
the most interesting spots in America. Glass tanks will replace
the bunks on which slept the hardened men who for
half a century brave the elements of seven seas. The
Star of India will be um an aquarium. Even though
forever beached and her sails furled for all time, she
will still be a part of the sea. Except that's
(02:08):
not what happened at all. So let's head to San
Diego and find out what became of the Star of India.
I'm Amy Brunei and welcome to Haunted Road. Some might
(02:30):
call the Star of India a historic trade ship, the
most cursed boat in the water, and it's one nine
years of sailing. The ship has been trapped in the
ice in Alaska and run aground in Hawaii, and has
seen cyclones, collisions with other ships, and a crew mutiny
that ended in seventeen men being sentenced to hard labor.
But others might call it the luckiest ship ever built.
(02:51):
Through all these cataclysmic events, the Star of India survived.
In fact, she's still sailing today. Whether she's sailing with
icy handed ghosts of sailors who died aboard, though, is
a bird debate. There are rumors of strange apparitions and
moving objects below her decks. Maybe it's because of all
the tragic deaths aboard, or maybe it's because the ship
(03:11):
is the oldest actively sailing boat in the world. When
she was first built, the Star of India had a
different name and a different purpose. She was also a
marvel of her time, an iron holed ship in an
era when most boats were constructed of wood. Relatively small,
the boat measures two hundred five feet long by thirty
five feet wide and has three masts. Originally called the
(03:34):
Utterpi after the Greek muse of music, the ship was
built in eighteen sixty three in the Isle of man
An Island in the Irish Sea between Great Britain and Ireland.
In its early sailings, the Utterpi was used to sail
jute from India, or at least that's what she was
supposed to do. Her first two sailings were nearly disastrous,
filled with so much calamity that she nearly sank and
(03:56):
lost all her crew. The uterpis first sailing left Liverpool
on January ninth, eighteen sixty four, under the command of
Captain William's story. Almost immediately after setting sail, disaster struck.
In the middle of the night, the Uturpy collided with
an unlit Spanish break off the coast of Whales. The
crash destroyed the jib boom. For you non sailing folk
out there like me, that's the large extension off the
(04:18):
bow that helps the sales maintain a well projected shape
to catch the wind and speed up the ship. The
damage was so extensive that seventeen of the ship's thirty
crew members refused to continue working until the ship turned
into port for repairs. Here's where that mutiny comes in.
According to British sailing history site Mighty sees the Uturpi
put into Holy Head Whales on the fifteenth and these
(04:41):
men were tried by local magistrates, each being condemned to
prison for fourteen days with hard labor after an expert
witness stated that the repairs could easily have been made
at ze. After five days of repairs, the ship embarked
again on January, this time with more than half the
original crew replaced, arriving in Calcutta around May. Her second
(05:02):
sailing was no more peaceful. After having successfully sailed from
England to India and secured a new load of cargo,
the Uturpi departed India and was caught in a cyclone
in the Bay of Bengal. This time she lost her
top masts and barely made it back to port. Just
after On August seven, eighteen sixty six, Captain's Story died
from what the BBC described as an unknown tropical disease
(05:24):
and was buried at sea with all that bad energy
attached to the ships. No surprise, her original owners sold
her after that voyage. After changing hands again in eighteen
seventy one, the Uturpie took on a different kind of
cargo people. In the years that followed, she made twenty
one trips around the world, bringing immigrants to new lands
in search of better lives. Most of the passengers were
(05:46):
from the United Kingdom heading to New Zealand, though she
also made voyages to California, Chile and Australia. But true
to the Uturpies history, those voyages were challenging. The Maritime
Museum of San Diego Go, where the Star of India
is now docked, says of that time it was rugged
voyaging with a little iron ship battling through terrific gales.
(06:08):
The ship's log describes the vessel laboring and rolling in
a most distressing manner during those storms. At the shortest
a voyage to New Zealand took one hundred days and
one hundred forty three days for its longest trip. Both
the crew and the passengers suffered during these difficult voyages.
Everyone ate a measly diet of hard tack, which is
a dense hard biscuit, and salt junk, which is dried
(06:31):
salted beef or pork. Many suffered from all the mare,
a particular kind of seasickness caused by rolling waves characterized
by nausea and dizziness, and other maladies caused by months
cooped up below deck. They were a tough lot, the
museum describes, drawn from the working classes of England, Ireland
and Scotland, and most went on to prosper in New Zealand.
(06:53):
Many babies were born to immigrants on these voyages, including
one given the middle name Uturpi and one partially named
after Captain Theoe Phillips. Many people also died, though not
as many as you might assume based on how difficult
some of the sailings were, but there were significant losses.
Seamen died of consumption, dysentery and pneumonia. One had a
(07:15):
seizure and fell from a mass to his death. Another
was accidentally crushed to death by his crewmates. A crewman
was in the chain locker where the anchor chain is stored,
where he shouldn't have been, and he became stuck as
his mates brought in the anchor to prepare to sail.
The noisy machinery masked the sound of the screams of
the trapped victim as he was crushed by the enormously
(07:36):
heavy chain. Child passengers were especially vulnerable. Babies were still
born on the ship, Infants perished, and families lost very
young children more than once. One of the most tragic
losses befell Emily and Charles brad from Middlesex, England, who
were traveling on the Uterpi with their four children. On
the six month voyage. Two of the kids, eight year
(07:58):
old Emily and two year old Jesse, passed away. Another
family faced a similarly horrific situation. Mary and Thomas Osborne
traveled aboard the Uturpi with their nine children, five sons
and four daughters. Four year old George died at sea,
followed by infant Thomas Jr. Mary gave birth to a
baby girl aboard the ship, but the newborn passed away
(08:19):
shortly after. The Journal of San Diego History wrote about
a collection of diaries and letters donated by New Zealanders
descended from passengers on the Uturpi. The journal describes these
letters by saying they tell us of yards and sales
riven by shrieking gales, of mountainous seas and vast icebergs,
of standing off and on before barren, iron bound coasts,
(08:41):
of the immigrants, hunger and their battles with ship rats
and each other of men swept off the bowsprit into
the churnings of the seat, of a captain's gory suicide,
and of the great joy and relief of all hands
on sighting land. Their words are the stark testimony of
those who sought new lives against all odds, braving hazards
(09:01):
men would think impossible today. In nineteen o one, the
ship was sold again, purchased by the Alaska Packer Association
to service the state's salmon canneries. For over twenty years,
she carried fishermen and canary workers, as well as coal
and other supplies, from Oakland, California, to Alaska, and would
(09:22):
return laden with canned salmon. It was during this time
that the Uturpi became the Star of India, so named
to be consistent with the rest of the association's fleet.
In nineteen six the Star of India was steered toward
another new path. A group of friends in San Diego
bartered for the boat, aiming to build a museum and
aquarium around her. The project was sidelined because of the
(09:44):
Great depression in World War Two, and the ship lay
dormant until nineteen fifty seven, when renovations finally started, though
they took a long time to complete. In nineteen seventy six,
the Star of India was put to sea again. Now
moored at the Maritime Museum of and Diego, the Star
of India is a floating history lesson, welcoming visitors to
walk her decks and descend below to see what life
(10:06):
would have been like on the ship up until she
made one single annual sail a year with a crew
of volunteers from the museum who trained all year to
be able to operate The Star of India on her
day long departure from her mooring. The museum, though still
describes her as an active sailing ship. In addition to
all of that, she holds many distinctions. She's on the
(10:28):
National Register of Historic Places and is designated a National
Historic Landmark. She's the fourth oldest ship in the United
States and the oldest iron holed merchant ships still afloat.
She's also the oldest ship in the world still sailing regularly.
Unlike many other preserved or restored ships, her whole cabins
and equipment are all largely original. Maybe it's because so
(10:51):
much of the ship is still original that there are
so many rumors of hauntings and strange activities aboard the
Star of India. One such story comes from the story
of John Campbell, a teenage stowaway who snuck his way
into the crew in four Shortly after being put to work,
Campbell was high in the rigging and lost his footing,
falling one feet to the deck below. Both his legs
(11:13):
were crushed, but Campbell survived three long days before he
died and was buried at sea. Visitors who are near
the mast Campbell fell from will sometimes report feeling the
touch of a cold hand. In the ship's galley, where
the food was prepared, people still report smelling freshly baked bread,
even though it's been nearly a century since anything was
baked in that kitchen. Visitors have also claimed to have
(11:36):
seen pots and pans above the stove moving, even though
the ship is sitting calmly in the water. The chain locker,
where the crew member was crushed to death by equipment
is said to be a paranormally active spot, and the
sailor's quarters are also plagued with spiritual activity after witnessing
much death and suffering. Crewmen who were sick or injured
spent their last days in that area, and visitors report
(11:57):
feeling cold spots in those areas, being overcome with residual
fear and sadness in the space. To talk more about
the hauntings on board the Star of India, I have
called in my old friend. You might know him, Britt Griffith.
Britta and I go way back, way way back, and
we once start on TV's Ghost Hunters together. He was
(12:18):
the first person who told me of the Star of India,
and after having investigated it multiple times, he's got some
crazy stories to tell. That's coming up after the break.
All right, So I am currently on the line with
(12:39):
one of my oldest dearest friends. And I don't mean
like old, I mean like we've been friends for a
very long time. I well, I was trying to not
call you old and then it just kind of but
I mean you're not old, clearly. I mean my oldest
friend is in like we go a wait, wait, we
(13:01):
back like pre TV, pre ghost Hunters. You were the
one that really introduced me to the Star of India,
and I know you investigated it quite a bit. So
I was like, I'm going to bring Britt. This is
my chance to bring Britt on. So Britt Griffith is
a ghost Hunter's alumni paranormal investigator, like I said, very
dear friend, and we have basically, I mean, I feel
(13:22):
like our two teams way back in the day. Like
you were working on a Southern California team, I was
on a Northern California team, and we were all like
Taps family teams and god well, but actually, honestly, Amy,
we we we were on teams before Ghost Hunters even
hit the air in October of two thousand four. So
(13:44):
many people think I did the paranormal because I was
on Teaving. The reality was we were doing this long
before that show was on the air. Absolutely. And what
I loved is that our teams worked together was so
because we were NorCal you were so cowed. We would
come together for like the Central California cases, Fresno, California.
(14:04):
We did a lot of Fresno and Baker's Field and clothing.
I remember we investigated like this crazy Mexican restaurant once.
Actually there's a story on that one. Okay, So anyone
who listens to this podcast knows that I love to
share stories, and so let me tell you, I do
know Britt very well. And when Britt does something, Britt
(14:26):
does not do something halfway. Britt goes all in. And
so as you became a paranormal investigator, you bought and
designed and researched every single piece of like paranormal technical
research equipment you could get your hands on. That's how
(14:47):
you ended up on gh AS, like helping with all
the tech. And so I remember the first time I
met Britt. He pulled up in literally an ambulance that
he bought, filled with ghost gear, and I was, who
is this guy? Right? So the first you were like,
this dude's weird. And then you had a hearse to
(15:08):
which you did not use for the ghost of gear,
but you had, and I was like, all right, this
guy is office rocker. But I will never forget you.
When we were investigating that Mexican restaurant, you were like,
you know, let's all like car pool. I think we
all stayed at like a local hotel or something. We
car pooled. And so I wrote in the ambulance and
I sat in the back and I buckled my seatbelt
(15:31):
and I was like this is such a novelty, this
is so cool whatever, And then we get there and
I'm like, I can't get my seatbelt off. My seatbelt
is not my seatbelt is not coming undone, and I'm
like sitting there, I'm kind of struggling with it. And
then the door opens and there's Britt and he's got
a camera and he's like, Amy, what's going on? You
got a problem, but oh are you stuck? And I'm
(15:53):
like I'm stuck in my seatbelt, like and you wouldn't
help me, you just kept filming me. And so then
fast forward to like a year, so he has this
video of me. So fast forward to a year or
two later. We're on the Queen Mary for like I
think it was a Dave Schrader event. Jason and Grant
from Ghost Hunters are lecturing and we were dear friends
(16:14):
and I was helping them with their podcast at the time,
and so their lecturing and they called me into the
lecture hall and they're like introducing me, like, hey, this
is Amy. She's our producer for our podcast. And they're
like Amy, Oh, we wanted to show you something, and
they played the video of me stuck in the ambulance
in front of hundreds of people. Yeah, that was the
(16:39):
good old days. But we had some great times. And
that ambulance was very convenient because it carried all the
equipment and it gave us a place to sit outside
of the location and not in the weather. Oh totally.
It was like the it was like our taps fan basically,
but I actually felt like the ambulance was kind of
more conducive to that because it had all these different compartments. So,
(17:02):
and you were very organized with it all. And so
obviously there were a lot of, you know, Ghostbusters jokes
made at our expense, but we are very used to
that by now, so that's par for the course. If
we're not getting the Ghostbusters joke, then we're doing something wrong. Yeah,
And to be honest with you, I wish we had
Ghostbusters paychecks because then we wouldn't have to work for
(17:23):
a living. That's very true. So but that's okay, that's okay.
I think we're we're good. We're good. We've had we
had the experiences, so okay, So tell me, do you, like,
when did you first start investigating the Star of India
and how did that come about? So the team that
I was on Obviously we were southern California, and leader
(17:43):
of our team actually lived in San Diego, and he
had a relationship with the manager or somebody who had
something to do with that Maritime museum because they have
like seven eight ships down there now, and uh, they
had always had ghost stories from the night Watch. We've
always had a hard time keeping night security on those
ships because not only the Star of India that's there,
but that Berkeley ship is there, and then there was
(18:05):
a Russian submarine that was there, and all three of
them are haunted. And so the night manager this and
this was right about the first season of ghost Hunters,
which gave the manager enough courage to actually talk about it, because,
I mean, most people don't realize, but before ghost Hunters
came on the air, talking about the paranormal was was
a hush hush thing or you were crazy, and trying
to get people to let us into buildings was a
(18:26):
pain because they would just laugh at us. But ghost
Hunters happened, so the manager knew that Dave was into
the paranormal world, and he finally reached out to Dave
and said, hey, you know, we just had another night
security guy quit because of ghosts, which I don't believe in,
but you know, I know you're into it. Do you
think you can come out with your team and blah
blah blah. And that's how we got in there was
because they couldn't keep their night security. They kept losing
(18:49):
employees and reached out to Day and then Day was like, yeah, sure,
and we went down and did it. And I mean
the first night we were there, back then before ghost Hunters,
when we would go to a place, the spirit wald
wasn't used to being acknowledged, reached out to, or like
we were doing trying to make contact. Most of the
time the spirit wal will be seen or heard, people
would freak and run. But the Star video the first
time we were there, we had activity. We had interactually
(19:10):
had K two hits, we had E d P, we
had it was like run up the bat. It was active,
which was really cool because normally takes a couple of
nights for the other side, whatever we're dealing with, to
get used to us reaching out to them and then
then going right, I guess we can kind of reach
out back and then the evidence collecting starts. Really No
one takes a couple of days. Today now it's like
it's almost like the spirit world expects to be talked
(19:30):
to almost, so it's a little different now. Yeah, No,
that actually makes sense because I feel like you guys
are probably the first ones to actually investigate the ship,
and there's been paranormal reports coming out of there for
a very long time. The history is very interesting. It's
had many different incarnations, so it makes sense that it
would be very haunted. But I'm just guessing that those spirits,
(19:52):
you know, had gone decades just kind of trying to
get attention or trying to get someone to reach out
to them, and then finally you guys get there, and
so yeah, it makes sense that right off the bat
they would start trying to interact. And see you did
obviously you did the Ghost Hunters investigations, but I can't
remember did you go there with your team on on
your own or was that was your experience the show. No,
(20:14):
it was just when we went with Ghost Hunters, But
we were there. I feel like we were there for
three nights because we were also doing the Berkeley next
Door and so we were just like normally we were
there for a couple of nights with g JR. One night,
but I think we were there for I remember being
in San Diego for quite a while for those cases. Yeah,
(20:34):
and we were there two and a half weeks. Yeah, yeah,
And so I do remember it very distinctly, and I
remember hearing footsteps, I remember seeing a shadow figure downstairs.
And this was one of the first cases that they
So I had already investigated in Alameda and in Clovis,
(20:55):
and I thought I was going back to work in
my project manager job, and they were like, hey, want
to go to San Diego. So I was like, I guess. So,
so this was, like, I want to say, my third
or fourth case. It's not the easiest place to investigate
because it's downtown, it's on the water, and it's an
old ship. It makes a lot of noises, but it's
(21:16):
steel hold or whatever, so it's not like a just
a wooden ship creaking and stuff, so you do have
some control. But still it was a challenge and I
remember thinking at the time, I was like, how are
we going to do this? But we did it and
it worked out, and you're right, it is a happy
is cast iron. The steel hole, which is the only
reason why that ship is around today because at the
(21:36):
time most of the ships were made of wood and
then that rots. But the only reason that ship still
afloat today, still sells today, it's a hundred and sixty
two years old, is because the whole was made so
thick of steel and we get to experience it today.
Most people don't realize it, but back then, the ships
were made of wood because it was the most economical
way to do it. But those ships, you know, they
don't last a hundred sixty years, like you know, Star
(21:58):
Indians a hundred six years old, and the only reason
was because the original owners paid the extra money to
have that extra thick still whole. And she's still around today.
I mean she's literally Costar certified Hunters since two years later,
the world's oldest selling ship on the planet, which is
really kind of cool, and we can investigated and looked for,
I know, And that was one of those kind of
surreal moments for me too. I was like, oh my gosh,
(22:20):
we're investigating this ship. And I actually went back to
San Diego recently just for a stopover when we were
coming back from a vacation in Hawaii, when we stayed
the night there, and I showed it to my daughter
and I was like, that was one of my first
cases on Ghost Hunters. Like, but it's beautiful, like it
she just stands. They light her up and like she's
definitely getting the accolades she deserves. But I don't know
(22:41):
that everybody fully realizes, like what is going on in there?
It is very creepy. I do remember distinctly the footsteps
are a big one, and I know you would experience that.
Was one of the things you told me about before
we even investigated there for Ghost Hunters was the footsteps situation.
Now do you remember what you experienced there with footsteps?
Because I do, but you should probably tell the story.
(23:02):
Well again, I was working with Jane Grant. But we
hear footsteps all the time, and we hear ghostly sounds,
and we hear a lot of door shutting and when
but what what blows my mind about the Star of India.
And this actually happened on tape. You can go to
the show and watch it. We heard the footsteps. We
were in the in between deck they called the tween deck,
which is a really low ceiling deck kind of captain's
(23:23):
quarters and whatnot, and we heard the footsteps and I
put my hands on this what was the ceiling for me,
but the floor for the top deck, and I could
feel them walking towards me, and it was like it's
like they were distant and as you hear them, they're
they're soft, they get louder, and then they get soft again.
We'll think of that as you put your hands on
the floor or the ceiling. And it was like soft, harder, harder, harder,
(23:46):
hard right on the top of me, and then soft
again as it went over me. And for me it
was like, holy crap, I got I felt another thing.
I hear that. I felt that, And then it spurred
thousand more questions of so this thing has mass that
it can actually impact the wood and vibrate the wood
(24:08):
to where I can feel it. So there's so there's
mass there. So does that mean this ghost could you know,
move an object? Oh well, maybe that's how they're doing it.
Can the ghost hurt somebody like you know, punch, roll, push, whatever?
It was so many questions that blew my mind. And
then when we finally went up top to see what
was up top, it was the path that the wheelman
(24:28):
would walk to go to the original Star of India.
Wheel It's moved now, it's not where it originally was at,
but back in the day, that footpath and where it
stopped was right at the original wheelhouse for the Star
of India, which makes perfect sense. So we had this
amazing experience that we could hear, that we could feel,
and then it actually logically made sense for that activity
(24:51):
to be where it was at. And that's the need
that the really cool, above par awesome thing about the
Star of India is the activity lines up with what
was going on back in the day, even though it's
kind of changed a little bit. Yeah, and that was
one of the first times that it kind of dawned
on me, like there are different kinds of footsteps you
can experience as an investigator, because that's when we started
(25:12):
using geophones. Now, geophones are a device that will light
up when they sense vibration, and so sometimes you'll hear
footsteps and you'll just hear footsteps and there's no vibration.
They're just kind of like these phantom footsteps. But other
times you'll hear footsteps and no one is there and
they will come like they will happen, and you'll hear
creaking of floorboards or you'll actually feel the floor kind
(25:36):
of moving as though someone is walking towards you. And
that's what you experienced there. But I don't think before
that I had kind of realized that there was a difference,
or even new to look for a difference. I don't
know necessarily what that means either as far as like
what does that mean for that spirit? If a spirit
can manifest enough to make something move, is that a
(25:57):
stronger spirit or is that more of an intelligent spirit
versus just kind of phantom footsteps that don't affect the
surround You know, these are all questions that come up,
and so something like that we get very excited about.
And I remember all of us being like, what is happening?
And also we went back and we checked the DVR
we had. It was very easy to cover the Star
(26:18):
of India because it's not a huge vessel, and so
we were able to like make sure we had every
um deck covered with the camera and there was no
one up there when that happened. No, there was not.
And the edicol thing was is that when Grant went
up to recreate it, it felt exactly the same. Right now,
do you remember what the night watchmen were experiencing? Specifically
(26:40):
that was making them quit by by chance. It was visual,
it was seeing stuff, shadows, ghostly type figures, and it
was sounds. It was audible talking sounds and chains rattling. Yeah,
I mean that that makes sense. And it's I always
we hear from night watchman or security guard quite often
(27:00):
because they're there in the dead of night when everything's quiet,
and I can't imagine signing on for that job. And
what kind of surprises you get in a place like
the Star of India. Now, what other experiences have you
either had there or have you heard of having or
I'm sorry, what other experiences have you had? You know
what I mean, what other experiences have you had there?
(27:21):
Have you heard of other people having there? Well? The
other thing that I mean when we were there for
the show, for the people that want to go watch
the show, I mean, there was those shadows that were
happening that we actually documented on camera. The you know,
the shadow getting in between the light and and the
cameras of the light would dim out, and that we
were we were seeing with our eyes and the camera
documented it. And we know no one was there because
(27:43):
as skilled investigators were smart enough to experience the activity,
take it all in and then immediately get to the
area and just try to debunk it. So we were
able to get in the area, there's no one there.
The shadow movement going on. And I don't know if
this is just science of the motion of the ocean
or whatever. But do you remember that, you know the
(28:05):
ropes hanging with the sandbags, and then there would be
like four of them lined up and only one rope
sandbag would be swinging while the other three were still
still perfectly still not moving at all. I mean, what
was that all about? Why would just one sandbag on
a rope hanging rock and the other three that are
next to it not rock. What is that all about?
(28:25):
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. I mean
that could be movement, of course, but also on the
ship stock. But I guess it is moving a little bit. Now,
remind me and if I get this wrong, we'll just
cut This was the star of India that what had
the the popping shrimp underneath it? Or was that? Yes? Yes,
(28:46):
I just remember being deep in the bottom of this
ship and there are these weird shrimp and so these
are the things that have to deal with as a
paranormal investigator. There were these these popping shrimp. And I
went down there and I was like, what is happening
to this? I thought the thing was sinking, but they
all night just popped so loudly. And if you didn't
(29:09):
know what those were, I don't know what you would
think was happening or what you would think you were experiencing.
I mean, and that, you know, again part of being
an investigator having to discern between you know, popping shrimp
and ghosts. But I mean, I do think that when
you're investigating a place like that, you do have to
deal with extraordinary circumstances. My local team we had investigated
(29:31):
it before. We knew about that, so we let Jane
Grant know so that But I don't think they told
you guys because they want you to experience it first.
Or did you know when you were going down there.
I can't remember how that ruled out. Oh yeah, okay,
so they let you go in blind and then they
explained it. But yeah, we knew about that ahead of time,
and that was the nice The nice thing about the
show is some of the some of the places we
(29:52):
went were kind of pre screened for us, so we
can rule a bunch of stuff out and not waste time,
so we could look for actual activity. But the cool
think about the popping shrimp that most people don't know
is the popping sound. It's something in it at the
tail the foot. I don't know something, but it's moving.
It's breaking the speed of sound. So that's what that
pop sound is. Whatever's in it is going so fast
(30:13):
is breaking the sound barrier. So bizarre. That is the
only place I've ever experienced the popping shrimp, and I've
never experienced it since. But yeah, it makes perfect sense
that they would not have told me. I barely knew
I was going to that investigation. I just kind of
appeared in San Diego one day and I was like,
I guess, I'm this is what I'm doing for the
rest of my life. You are? I mean, I knew
(30:36):
i'd be looking for ghosts. I just didn't know. I
kind of just assumed it would be like, Oh, I'll
just do a few episodes of this show ghost Hunters
yet and and then I never went home again. So yeah,
I do think there's just so much lore around ships
and their ghosts, and I almost feel like that adds
to the activity, because I do think that sailors and
(30:58):
people who spend a lot of their life on the
water are just particularly superstitious, and they do put a
lot of stock in kind of the spiritual side of
what they do. And do you think that's why the
Star of India still has so much going on? I
think there's a lot to the Star of India. And
there's there's stuff. Okay, I'm start with the happy stuff first.
(31:18):
So a sailor, the ship to a sailor is it's
is his mother. And the reason that you know, the
lower the superstition is you never have a woman on
a on a ship back then, is because the only
woman in that sailor's life is supposed to be the ship,
not another woman running around the decks, because then that
creates strife among the man, et cetera. But the but
(31:39):
to a sailor, they want to be in the ocean.
They want to be with their woman, which is their ship.
And that's why when they die, if you haven't if
we have a choice to go where we want to go,
a sailor would probably pick their ship. That's where they
want to go. But the Star of India did twenty
something trips around the world before late eighteen eighties, and
(32:02):
that was in the human immigrant trade. They brought families over,
immigrant families. They started bringing them from all over, like
that was the business of the ship. And so there
would be entire families they're including children, and there were
babies born on that ship. And I feel like I
don't think any of us can understand today, well most
(32:23):
of us cannot understand today the desperation of kind of
going into the unknown and getting on a ship like
that with your entire family and just hoping you make
it to the other side. And they ate terribly and
it was miserable, like absolutely miserable, and people did die
on board, people were very sick. Not as many people
died on boards I think people would assume under those conditions,
(32:46):
but that I feel like that desperation leads to some
sort of manifestation of energy, whether or not it is
them they're like in their conscious state, or just that
bit of them that was holding onto so much hope
in that ship. Like I would love to get back
(33:06):
there eventually and do like a more kind of a
longer investigation and find out more about who is actually there.
But a lot of emotion, and it makes complete sense
why it would be haunted. Do you think it's possible
that like a location like the Star of India where
you have so many people going through there and so
many highly emotional experience is happening, whether it's terror or
(33:28):
love of the ship, but that that random energy that's
kind of floating around, that it can kind of connect
to each other and then make coalesce all of its
energy from the various other spirits that are there then
to be able to do those footsteps or to make
that shadow appear or make that voice sound. I mean,
can you think that the spirit world can work on
its side, work together to then send a signal to
(33:51):
our side. I think that that kind of emotion can
even create ghosts, you know, not necessarily, like, but I
do think that it does be come something over time.
And then if you have people touring it every day
and kind of revisiting those experiences and bringing it up
again and again, we're talking about the hauntings again and again. Like,
I do feel like that kind of either keeps it
(34:12):
alive or kind of awakens it. And so I wouldn't
be surprised if they have things going on now. I
know they have not. I think they haven't really done
a lot of investigations. I haven't heard a lot about
ghost tours or anything going on there, but I do
hear of it as being a haunted spot. Whenever I'm
in San Diego, people are like, go to the Star
of India, go to the Whaley House. You know, they
(34:33):
know it's haunted. I just I can't help but wonder
if that has something to do with it, because you
just you do not have ships like that still in
existence that have that went through that same history. Yeah,
I know you don't. And I do know that around
the Halloween time they do do a haunted tour. I
have seen that, but it's it's not like an investigation.
It's more of a guided tour with dose sets, telling
(34:55):
tall tales and entertaining the crowd type of thing. But
you are right. I mean they're at least at least
once a week I get a message from somebody on
the socials. Have you been to the Haunted Star of India,
like a few times. Yeah, it's lower is out there,
And you are right, And and maybe we are energy
about that ship and people that go to that ship
looking for the ghost, that our collective energy is feeding
(35:18):
the spirit side energy, almost like they could plug into
us and then they make happen what they make happen,
which is it's cool and scary at the same time.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Well, hopefully they will
invite us back soon and and yeah, Candred Spirits, that
would be fabulous. I would love to go to San Diego.
So Star of India, if you're listening, we're looking for cases,
(35:38):
so if there's anyone there. But I mean, aside from
aside from that, it has been lovely talking with you.
As always, I do appreciate you taking the time. I
know this interview was not easy because I'm currently in
Europe and so the time change and everything has been bonkers.
But thank you for sticking with me and chatting about
(36:00):
old times and the very haunted Star of India's Hopefully
we can get back there soon. That would be amazing.
I will watch that episode for sure. Well, thank you
again and um yeah, hopefully we'll see each other again soon.
So I hope you and the family are well after
they are and same to you. Safe travels. I can't
wait for your season premiere. Obviously, the Star of India
(36:25):
holds a special place in my Heart having been one
of the first ever cases I did on Ghost Hunters. Well,
I definitely investigated the paranormal prior to my appearance on
your TV screens. Those early years of g H actually
hold a lot of nostalgia for me. That aside, the
Star of India is one of those strange dichotomies in
a tourist world. You have kids happily skipping below deck,
(36:47):
or people once pinned all their hopes and dreams, barely surviving,
just trying to make a better life. You have her
beautiful silhouette backdrop against the iconic San Diego waterfront, with
many probably walking past, not knowing what secrets and energy
the wood and steel holds deep in its bones. Hopefully
the spirits there have found their way, following the star
(37:08):
that was always meant to guide them. I'm Amy Bruney
and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is a production
of I Heart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey.
(37:31):
Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney,
additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The show is edited and
produced by rema El Kali and supervising producer Josh Thing
and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick.
For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
(37:53):
your favorite shows.
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