Divorcio

After Eric and Roselyn revealed to us they had both been married before meeting each other we wanted to explore the topic in depth.

Well known divorce attorney laura wasser discusses the ultimate he said ella dijo

And the author of the happy divorce explains that it is possible 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is he said Vijo with Eric Winter and Rosalind
fantas like it that are you ready for this one? Eric?
This is gonna be a very interesting episode. We thought
about it and thought about it and then finally said,
you know what, let's just do it. Since we brought
it up last podcast. I don't even know how it

(00:22):
got brought up. I feel oh no. There was a
question that came in UM inquiring about relations or divorce,
dealing with divorced the week before and then and then
I casually mentioned something that I knew that we're both divorced,
and even our producers were like, what we got? We
got emails people like didn't know about it because we
I don't think I have ever UM talked about it openly,

(00:46):
like google it. Yeah, we don't. We we don't, we don't.
We don't really talk about openly. And you UM joked
the last episode that you wanted to talk about divorce
and it since I started talking about my divorce, You're like,
I don't want to know anymore because I don't, but
I guess I'm gonna have to since we have decided

(01:06):
let me tell you all about mine. I don't want
to hear anything about you scaring for the end? You
know what the full disclosure is, that is that that's
say we don't want people to be thinking, oh my god,
why are they talking about divorce. What I want you
to say something about divorce. In Spanish that I don't know,
it means when the river makes sound is because water

(01:29):
is coming. That's that's like a like a like a
thing that we use in Spanish a lot, like when
you hear a rumor, it because the river is making
a noise. So there's some truth behind it. So you
want me to tell you a little bit about my divorce,
but I just want to jump in and say one
thing that I think you and I met at the
right time in life, and I think our previous divorce
has probably set us up for success in a way

(01:50):
I hope, because you know, I truly believe if had
we met back in our twenties, it would have been
a different outcome. We're very strong personalities, and I think
our lives have shaped us into what we are now
to make it work. Um, one of the biggest lessons
you learned from your first marriage, Well, look, my divorce
was I got married at a very young age, I
was married at twenty five, met the person at two. Um,

(02:12):
I knew it all. My parents were like, you're crazy,
you're getting married too young to really, I didn't know
that they told you that. Yeah, I mean, look, they
were supportive. They wanted me to be happy. I told
them I knew exactly what I was doing, as every
twenty two year old would say or twenty three year old.
You know what, I always found funny. And this is
the first time in telling you this, I believe. I
don't know if I'm making this up, but your wedding
song was at Last, which is a classic and an

(02:34):
incredible song, And to me, it was always funny that
you were about twenty five and you're like, Las, You're
it's true. It's not like you've been dating for forty
five years. It's true. Well that was funny. So I'm
telling you now, I got some old school flavor in
my music. At Last what at the beginning, I just

(02:55):
sat you, I got a divorce. Anyways. Our our song
was Better Together from Jack Johns. Are They're gonna say?
You and your ex husband? I was like, settled down?
That was our song. My saw with my Eggs was
from Luther v Andres. Yeah, both also old school, the
same type of song here and now we went for
better together. Jack Johnson, who you didn't even know Jack Johnson.

(03:16):
I introduced you to Jack Johnson. I didn't know Jack Johnson. No,
Jack Johnson's So how do you think you handle your divorce? Um? Yeah,
our divorce was a very civil divorce that was very
It was a breakup of paperwork. Thankfully, there weren't any
kids involved, which I believe complicates everything to the you know,
teenth degree. Um, we had no kids involved. We did

(03:38):
have a dog involved, but it was technically my dog.
And I'll never forget when the divorce happened. She wanted
to share a custody of the dog and I was like,
absolutely not, it's my dog. This dog was given to
me as a gift. And it became a whole battle
about the dog and I was like, I'm not, No,
We're not sharing custody of this dog. That was my dogs.
You know what happened to me. We also had a dog,
we had the German shape Nato, which was my boyfriend.

(04:01):
That dog was my life. As you know that to
this day, I have a thing for German shepherds because
I often think about, Oh my god, what happened to Nato.
So we got separated and the same thing. It was
gonna be like, um, we share a kid, we have
a Nato and then we then he gave me mold
so we had two all the time, and the Nato
the dog. And you know how I am with dogs.

(04:21):
So for me to be able to let go this dog,
it was a lot of tears because I realized if
I don't move on, this dog is going to be
the excuse. He's gonna have to continually come to my house.
And he would show up unannounced. Um, and he was crazy,
you know, And there was always a fight and always
a problem because I want to take Nata, but I
don't want you to take Nata right now. And if

(04:42):
there was someone like somebody in my house, God forbid.
It was like a crazy moment. So I had to
be like, you know what, I'm gonna have to give
him natal because otherwise I'm gonna be for the next
whatever twelve years. Very few people can share because they
have a dog in a breakup. I know what, but
it hurts me because to this day, I just go
I can't believe I let go over Yeah, but you

(05:02):
did the right thing. And I know one like my
my co star Melissa shares custody of her dog. She's
been able to do it successfully and they have a
very understanding relationship and they're able to It's an amazing thing.
But that's brutal, like I couldn't do that. And I
think at the end of the day, my divorce was
very clean. It was basically, let's split everything up and
let's go our separate ways. And I think you you know,

(05:22):
I came from a divorce family, so for me, there
was always that sense of failure. I always that when
you serve somebody, you guys didn't have to do that
because it was amicable. I mean in a sense like
it wasn't ideal, but it became what was going to happen,
and it was as amicable as as it could be. Um,
I think a weird thing. I don't know if you
had to do any of this, but we had to

(05:43):
bring an appraiser in to a praise all the assets
in the house so that I could then because I
kept the home, I had to buy her out of
the house. I bought her out of all the assets.
So the biggest argument was I don't want to keep
the china from the wedding, but it goes in the
cabinet that's in the house, and I'm keeping the cabinets.
So therefore I had to give her half the money
for china that somebody gave us as a gift. And

(06:05):
I was stuck with all this wedding china that I did.
I could give two ships about and I had to
pay half. So that was a bit of an argument
because neither one of us wanted it, but I ended
up having to pay for some of it. Anyways, other
than that pretty smooth I know, years wasn't as smooth.
Mine wasn't you know? I was married for three years
one and to have kind of happily married one and

(06:27):
a have just going through a nightmare. Um. And it's
uncomfortable for me because I don't know where the person
is right now. I don't know if he follows my career,
I don't know what. I don't want him to feel
uncomfortable if he ever listens to this. But yeah, but
the second part of the marriage was just, um, not great.
And I remember um that I do. I did have
to do this serve because you had actually served, and

(06:49):
then I remember that to somebody showed up aout his place,
I must only and I think it was. And then
he had to sign. And then when the papers came
back to me, he had put a he signed and
he put a sad face with a t are he's
so funny, And I was like, this is comical, you
know what I mean, like like laughable. But no, it
wasn't great. We didn't. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't a
pleasant divorce at all. But at least everybody's moved on

(07:10):
and we was everybody the best in the situation. And
you hope that you know, lives were all changed for
the better. But it's a brutal topic. I mean, most
of my friends, I know so many people that are divorced.
How do you feel? Years old? Okay, I'm I'm married, young,
I'm divorced. I'm going to go out into the dating
world again. Was what you were? You proud that you

(07:31):
were like a divorce guy? Two part two part answer?
Not proud to have gone through a divorce, because again
I came from a divorced situation and I was told
myself I would never get divorced like my parents being divorced,
and it happened to me. So I was very devastated
that I let that happen in the marriage. However, once
I came to terms with it and realized, okay, I

(07:51):
was young. This was the best case scenario. Boy was
it great to go out there and be singling. It
was awesome. I mean, I was like, I'm into town
and meet my friends up in Salt Lake, meet my
friends Vegas, going to a tool. It was great. It

(08:15):
wasn't my story I was. I was staying. It was
a lot of it to guy, I'm twenty five and
I'm divorce. It was awful because I you know, I
guess for a woman, you know, for a girl that age,
it's different. You know, you don't want to go out
there and already feel like you have some baggage, you know.
And thank god I didn't have any kids, because I
think I would have just crawled under a bed. Um um.

(08:36):
But yeah, I wasn't very happy. I wasn't having I
never took it as a you know, I would meet people,
they you know, come up in conversation and I wouldn't
hide it. I wouldn't dance around it. I'd be like, yeah,
I mean I was married before what you were married,
and I would I would have so much fun explaining
to us. Yeah, I got married at a super young age,
like it was no big deal to me at all.
Moving on from the fact again, going through it was tough,

(08:58):
but once I came out of it, I had no
problem being honest and sharing my truth with whoever I
met and be like, yay, this is me, take it
or leave it. I have no other ties. When did
you tell me when I met you? I don't know
how long it took you to tell me, and how
long did it too? We were friends first for a while,
so I'm sure I told you in conversation. We probably
talked about both of us. I don't, Yeah, I don't.
I don't remember that conversation, which is weird. You don't

(09:21):
remember a lot. We've established that on this podcast. None
of this says, were you googling my eggs and things
like that and not trying to learn all about it?
I don't know. I don't get into too much of that.
I mean, I know the person who the person is,
and you don't know much. I never forget one time
you got so mad. We went to my aunt and uncles.
They used to have a cabin in Mammoth and one

(09:43):
of our first dates we went out, I took it
to Manth to go to the cabin and I think
there was an old picture on the wall of me
and my ex wife and other another family from our trail.
That was your grandpa no Ian Mammoth too. We had
to take the picture down. I had to like tell
my aunt and uncle that was your grandfather, your grandfather,
wasn't that was there too? That was there too. Yeah,
my ex was sprinkled all over different family members houses.

(10:04):
It's not it's not a great feeling. I'm not gonna lie.
And then you have to act like everything is okay,
and everybody's looking at you and you're like, hey, nice
meeting you. Nice meeting you, and you see the eggs
on the wall. But it is what it is. You know,
you had, you had, you had a history before me.
It's not all about ross I get it. I'll never forget.
The first one of the first gifts I ever gave
you was a key chain that said it's all about us,
because I learned that very early on that if you

(10:27):
live in Rossland, well, do you know what I think
is bs? You know I'm gonna expose you right now,
and this is some bush. So for fifteen years I've
been dealing with his corporation has the initial of the
ex and he doesn't want to change it because it's
too much work. Back and have to do all the paperwork.
So every single week I have to see mail coming

(10:49):
into my house that has the initials of the eggs.
You know what, right now, you're gonna change I'm starting
look at when I got. It's too complicated to change
of paperwork. I don't you know. I don't tell you
about flying because I don't just change hair about it
like I see it. Whatever would you feel comfortable if
my my corporation is Rustling app Incorporated, You'll have a

(11:12):
freaking fit. We've been together for like fourteen years now
talking about a serious topic. Now I have to decide it.
I'm done with it. You're gonna have But that is
a true story. Out of laziness and just it's so
much work. I don't want to deal with. Change it
all you're going to change. Oh my god, things with
work and with the conversation you're changing it. I wanted
to be are incorporated. No way, you're not going to

(11:37):
be in the incorporations. I'm not going to be in corporation.
That's another thing. Is we divide everything. That's what keeps it,
that's what keeps your is the best decision ever I
thought's mind, no having joint We talked about this, and
we can have a whole episode on finances. But when
I think one of the best episodes of our best episodes,

(11:58):
best things we've ever talked about, doing what and this
is clean? With marriage, I think is you divide your
not divide your assets, but upfront, but having two different accounts.
When people get married, whether it's first marriage a second marriage,
people spend differently and you earn your own money. I
earn my own money. We have family accounts that go
towards everything for the kids, everything for the house, everything
for us as a couple. But when it comes into

(12:20):
individual things, I don't care about the three thousand dollar
pers you want to buy. I don't want to see
that bill. So if you if you want to go
buy it, you go buy it. And you don't care
about the watches I want to buy. So if I
want to buy a watch, I go buy it. That way,
I'm not arguing about the things you want to spend
money on that I think are ridiculous, and you think
the things I spend money on a ridiculous. Why do
I spend money that you think it's ridiculous? All kinds
of stuff like shoes that you can't stand in for

(12:42):
more than two minutes, every pair of shoes going to
love these Jimmy shoes that cost me all this money,
and can I sit down? I hate there at my feet.
So basically, if you, if you get divorced too, to me,
all my shoes are mine. Of course, yeah, your shoes.
But that's the point. The point is so many couples
fight over finances, and I think it's great that we

(13:03):
don't have to argue about the financial strain because you
do what you want to do as long as you're
smart with it. Good luck. You run out of that money,
you come knocking. Hey, honey, we're married. Remember can I
have half that? You know, that's your that's your money.
You can buy your little your fun things with it. Okay, Okay, Eric, Yeah,
I know I'm the one that told you I'm signing.

(13:24):
Don't be jumping into the bandwagga like it was your idea. Anyway,
let's take a break we are back. Are you comfortable
is a topic of making you a little a little

(13:45):
bit uneasy? No, I'm not totally comfortable. Comfortable. Good, I'm
real to talk about dating what you got me? All
flashback and to being single again after the divorce and
dating something? Are you joking? Are you joking? All right?
So Wowt's well. I can tell you some stories you
want to hear. Do you want to hear? Do you
want to hear? Who break first? All right, we're super

(14:08):
excited about this guest that we have coming on next.
She's beautiful, she's a lady boss, she's an author, enter
what did I say? Oh my god, entrepreneur, family law expert.
Her name is Laura Wasser, Kim Kardashian, Ryan Reynolds, Sanna Fari's,

(14:31):
Jimmy Iven, Maria Shrivers, Stevie Wonder, all those people. She's
been a divorce lawyer. She has a podcast, her name
is Divorces and she's going to transition now because she's
having a partnership with I Heard Radio and it's going
to be named All is Fair. I am fascinating. You
know all those stories that Laura has that she can't
really she can't really talk about, you know, the stuff

(14:54):
that's confidential. However, I think it's incredible to be able
to pick her brain on divorce. I'm curious what makes
someone want to be a divorce lawyer? You know, I
don't know. I want to find out she's married, is
she divorced, what did she come from? Divorced parents? I
also really want to tap into alimony. You and I
have always had this conversation about alimony, this debate back

(15:15):
and forth. I want to talk to her about but
I think every state is different. Loans, but she can
explain all that. Yeah. She's also an author of the
New York Times bestseller It doesn't have to be that way.
How to divorce without destroying your family and bankrupting yourself? Wow,
thank you for being here in Laura. Thank you for
having so exciting. We have so many questions for you.
I could pick your brain for hours. We don't have

(15:37):
that much time, I know, I know. So fascinating to me.
When you become a divorce lawyer, did you go to
school knowing? I want to No way, No, my dad
actually was and is a divorce lawyer. So I grew
up like I grew up here in l a and
I would go to people's like Sweet Sixteens or Mitzwe's,

(15:57):
and some of the you know, moms or dads would
be like, oh, you're Laura Wasser. You're at that tamble
in the back because my dad would have represented one
of the parents. So it's like and also, my parents
split up and they did it in like the most amicable,
respectful way. So that's kind of what I saw growing up.
I never thought that i'd be a divorce lawyer. I
never even thought I would go to law school. But

(16:17):
my parents said that they would continue to support me
as long as I was in school, so I was like, yeah,
So I went to law school and then I actually
graduated and started working for UM the Law Center for
Disability Rights. You know, I was like baby lawyer, trying
to get like the guardrails in the bathrooms and ramps
going into buildings. And I had gotten married after my
second year of law school, and very quickly we've determined

(16:39):
that that probably wasn't like the best you know, long
term situations. He was not a lawyer. He and he
and I were super super different. You know. He was
Roman Catholic from Spain Cuban family. I was you know,
a Jewish girl from Beverly Hills you wanted to live
in southern California. I mean we never even talked about
like having kids or what religion they'd beat. That's how

(16:59):
like were young. It was a great, super fun wedding
at the Bell Hotel. We had ten bridesmaids and ten groomsmen.
We partied all night long. It was I never have
to get married again. That's how good that was, and
how good the pictures. You're like, why did we do this?
Exactly my story? Do one ano? Yes, I don't think
we parted well. At one point we were talking about

(17:20):
me be getting back together and he goes, oh, when
we get back together, you will change your name. And
I was like, what, No, I'm not going to like that.
Do not know? Do you know me at all? Like,
I'm not gonna be Laura Hernandez. I think there is
Laura Hernandez. She's like a newscaster and actually anyways, so
in any event, um, we split up and I went
to my dad because we have been renting a place.

(17:40):
I needed like some extra money that I wasn't making
working at the nonprofit Distability Rights, And I said, can
I clerk here for a while while I wait for
my bar results, and I basically never left. I mean,
family law is super interesting. You learned so much about
so many people, and first of all, like the top levels,
just different careers, all kinds of people, what they do,

(18:00):
where they live. But then you really learn about human nature.
And that has what kept me doing it for twenty
five years, because it's fascinating to see how relationships work.
And so that's why I kept doing it, and that's
why we started the podcast because we really it's just
so interesting and I think people want to start having
this conversation more. How many cases do you think you
have been a part of? How many divorces in twenty

(18:24):
five years? And I'm managing partner at my firm right
now and there's seventeen lawyers, So at any given time
we've probably got I don't know, a hundred and fifty
active cases at the firm. You know, some people's divorces
take a really long time. They need a second, they
need to wait, they need to go through it. There
may be a lot of discovery financial information, and some
are really fast. It just depends. And so yeah, messiest divorces.

(18:48):
Money is always at the core or kids kids secondary
definitely because and again at the firm we represent really
high net worth people and yes, more money, more problems,
but also more money kind of easier to figure out
and whatever. Kids are the things that people I mean
like and if it's a difficult case where somebody is

(19:11):
making allegations of abuse or there is abuse, or alien
nation or really tough one somebody has to move to
a different country or to the other side of the country.
You can't just do two days with mom, two days
with dad, two days back if somebody is living in
New York. So those are the really hard ones. Kids
are the toughest money people kind of after a certain
period of time, would rather spend their money dividing it

(19:33):
and moving on than on the lawyers and the forensic
accountants and and all of the other people that get involved.
When you're fighting about money. In the state of California,
usually the mom is the one that has a bigger
the better benefits of keeping the kids mom or the
non breadwinner. Yeah that's not the mom, No, it's the
non It's who's the one that's giving the parental care

(19:55):
more to the child, Like were is one of our
biggest conversations and debates back and forth. If you have
a stay at home dad and he is the one
taking care of the child or children every single day,
devoting all his time, not taking a career, because his
career is raising those children. Who do you think your
wife's face, that's what we'll have? That all I don't.

(20:20):
I don't get your point. I do. I have a
lot of It's not that crystal clear you And I'll
tell you. As a working mother, like I could argue
both sides of this. That's one of the beauties of
being able to be a litigator. Yes, if you're the
stay home dad and you are the person I mean,
I have tons of female clients who paid not only

(20:40):
spousal support, but child support to their husbands because they're
taking care of the kids. That being said, as a
working mom, interestingly enough, I've got two sons and I
don't live with either of their dad's. We weren't married,
but we're all we'll get along fine. But yeah, I'm
still the one arranging the play dates. I'm still the
one filling out the soccer applications. I'm still the one
that's you know, telling you know, nanny needs to and

(21:01):
my son was sick yesterday. I was the one that
was home in bed with him. Not anything bad about
either of the dads. It's just a lot of times
that's how we're wired as moms, and a lot of
times we insist on it, particularly the working moms, because
we can control everything. I can do it at all.
And so I speak to women's groups all the time
where I say, okay, how many of you work the
show of hands, and how many of you are still

(21:23):
the ones that are making the lunches and are making
the doctor's appointments? And they raise their hands, and I say,
how many of you are resentful about that? And they
raise their hands, And I said, and how many of
you insist upon it being that way? And then reluctantly
they don't want to stay. Yeah, well not see, we've
had this conversation, and I think you've come to terms
with this morning, and you alluded to it. If if
two people have been married and you have a stay

(21:43):
at home dad and the wife is by far the breadwinner,
crushing it CEO, major company, whatever it is, right, they
get a divorce. She thinks it's crazy that the man
would then ask for alimony and Let's say he's doing
everything you said, like the soccer point, he's doing everything.
He is an amazing stay at home he's Mr Mom.

(22:05):
She thinks it's crazy that he's going to get alimony
when he basically put his career or whatever it was,
on hold because together, during happiness, you made the conscious
decision he was going to raise the kids, you were
going to work. And she thinks it's crazy that got canceled.
And I'll tell you baby, Um, yeah, well, let me

(22:25):
get do you one better. Let's say he didn't do anything.
Let's say he sat on the couch and they had
people in their home that were caregivers and even people
to cook and whatever else, whether it was family members
or paid employees or whatever he didn't do, he's still
going to be getting alimony, impossible childs support, because what
it is really based on is not so much what
you did, because that's a fact finding mission that most

(22:45):
judicial officers don't have the time or the inclination to do. It.
Basically is how much money is each of you making.
Plug that into a formula, what's the timeshare on the custody?
Plug that into a formula and a number gets spit out.
And so yes, I mean it is. The law is
gender blind. I think that's a good thing. And mostly
in California and New York State to the other states

(23:07):
are kind of coming along. We are really now looking
at a fifty time share. I mean, assuming both parents
have time. What I have sometimes is parents that are
being penalized moms for working. So now dad says, well,
she's always at work, so I should have more time
than her. That's what drives me crazy. And I think
I know enough working parents, moms and dads who are
still able to effectively co parent that I still believe

(23:29):
in most situations you're better off sharing it equally. Our
kids better with their parents than necessarily with a child caregiver. Maybe,
and maybe you have a certain period of time, like
if it's three hours or more or twelve hours or
I'm not saying they should stay with a nanny when
their parents out of town working and the other parents
home waiting, but if it's one night and your home

(23:49):
in time either to put them to bed or wake
up in the morning, yeah, they can stay with a
babysitter that night because that's your time in your house
having the experience with that parent. Yeah, I agree with
I feel I think we know how old. So you
get divorced, your kid has to turn what age for
the person given the ali money to stop giving the money?
Is it eighteen? In California at eighteen child supports child

(24:11):
supports eighteen? In New York State it's twenty one. So
it depends on states. You can keep going a person remarries, yes,
unless you get married die. Um, it depends how long
you've been married. In California, we generally called ten years
a long term marriage. That's not a bright line. It
could be nine and a half, it could be eleven,
I mean, but ten years or more generally has jurisdiction

(24:32):
over alimony or spousal support continuing. So you have to
come back to the court after a certain period of
time and go, dude, come on, she's we've been divorced
already for ten years and she's only forty. Can't she
go get some kind of a job. It's not forever,
So I okay, So that might be where I got
the ten year number. We were just talking, we were
talking about something before you walked in. Is it true
also with pre nups? That wouldn't you hit the ten

(24:54):
year mark? The pre nup becomes very messy and hard
to sort of fall out at all. Okay, So that
so it's alimony. If if if the marriage ends before
the ten year mark, that's one thing. If it ends
from the tenure mark, you're looking at about half the
length of the marriage, So eight years, you're looking about
four years of support. Now again that can depend. The
court has the jurisdiction, so a judge can find a
reason why. For example, if there's been abuse in the marriage,

(25:15):
the other person has a hard time going back to work,
if there's some kind of disability, it maybe more than
half the length of marriage. The prenups, it depends what's
in the prenup. And I have seen prenups that say
after ten years we have they I think they call
it like a sundown provision, meaning if we make it
ten years, the prenup goes away. I don't believe in
those because I think they're promotive of divorce. I think
they promote people at nine and a half years going by,

(25:37):
like you know, So we don't put that in because
if something's promotive of divorce, generally it could be that
the agreement is not enforceable. So but that's probably why
you've heard that ten year thing and that I would
assume prenups get very I mean in our business and
you deal with tons of celebrities in general, actors, non actors, whatever.
But like in our business, you know, there's ebbs and
flows constantly of income throughout an entire profession. And you know,

(26:00):
we're like I tell friends all the time, I have
no problem with prenups. I think, hey, it makes you
guys feel more secure in their marriage, go for it.
We have no problem. We were just talking about, like
we do separate bank accounts and we have a joint
bank account, Like you go buy your things up by
my things, and then we have our stuff for the family.
Whatever makes things easier and less less fighting in the
household or dispute is great. However, when you do a prenup,

(26:22):
you can outline only so much at the time of marriage.
And if things are ebbing and flowing and you're fifteen
years in, how do you divide that? How do you
how does the prenup hold you stick with the prenup.
Now again, you can't do an assets of grown and
change absolutely, so what you do is going in Both
people say this is what we have going in there
has to be full disclosure. I've done prenups for people

(26:42):
where the representatives of for example, the wife said we
need this prenup. We don't know this guy. He's just
starting out. He hasn't done that much. She makes twenty
million dollars a year for doing We got to do this,
We gotta do this. We do the prenup basically saying
what either of us makes as our own will continue
funding a joint account for our expenses to the extent
we cam whatever makes sense. We won't govern that because
we don't know, because there are ebbs and flows and

(27:04):
when and if we split up, we're both agreeing that
what remains at what's ours remains ours. Anything we made
during the marriage remains ours, and we'll agree that there
may be some spousal support. We don't know who will
pay who, but it will be capped at a certain amount,
so it's not going to be sky high. Either one
of us could live on this. So now, however, many
years later, they get divorced and guess who's making way

(27:24):
more money Him that we were trying to protect her from.
And it's fine. She was fine too, you know, he's
but you know they're the way that they've worked has
kind of changed. So then whatever has been accumulated through
the marriage, she'll get percentages of his money if that's
part of the prenup, but otherwise, so you would put
that in the prenup ahead of time. The ebbs and
flows would be non negotiable. And you're making your money.

(27:45):
I'm making my money. There's what we have now, so
it's protected. You've seen it all, Laura, You've heard it
all because you've known so many cases. Um. Do you
still believe in marriage? Do you think it's possible that
people can stick together for many years in a functional relationship. Yes,
I do. I don't think gets the norm. I think
if you've met your soul mate and it really does
work after a certain period time, it's your best friend,

(28:06):
it's your co parents, you know, and I do I
see it work. I have friends that have been married
now for nearly twenty years. I love hanging out with them.
I love hanging out with their families. Is it always easy? No,
I mean, people go through tough times. Um, But I
believe in marriage, and I also love a good wedding. However,
I also think that the majority of humans were probably

(28:26):
not meant to mate for life. I think we go
through so many evolutions of our being, and if you're
lucky enough to be with someone and you grow together
in the same direction, awesome. But if you don't, I
don't know that you should stay together in an unhappy
marriage or relationship. I don't think it's healthy for kids,
and I don't think it's healthy for you. When we
as humans were only living until like seven or thirty

(28:48):
years old, it was a lot easier to mate for life.
We're living until a hundred if you're I see. I
mean last year I did two divorces of people in
their eighties, and I was kind of like when we
talk about great divorce or silver divorce, that's basically anyone
over fifty. Can you imagine fifty fifty? I'm fifty one,
Like I could be telling me I have to like

(29:09):
stay with the same person for the rest of my life.
But eight and they're saying, you know what, I don't
know how many years I have left. But I feel good,
and I feel like I look good and I want
to be happy, and I'm I'm going to die everything
you like. I have a close friend from high school,
been with her partner. They've been together, two kids, twenty

(29:30):
five years, Jen, and she's like, no, we're not gonna
get married. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Like
there's something about putting the title on it that I
don't know if it makes them nervous or they just
don't feel it's necessary. Well, they don't maybe want to
enter into that contract with the state of California is
what it is. They have their own contract and they
feel like why. I guess like there's no because there's
a bigger question, Right, is monogamy something that is organic

(29:53):
to human nature? Can you stay with one person? Right?
They are? So you can term you know, part ner
and be happy and you're one of those people that
succeeds whether you're married or not. It just does that
title added some kind of a pressure we are seeing,
I mean the trend because if we've been studying this
is that people, unless people are getting married, people are

(30:13):
living together, they're having kids, they're not getting married as much.
As a result, the divorce rate has gone down a bit.
The divorce rate among second marriages sorry, is higher than yeah,
because it's older people and I think sometimes if they've
been through it once they're like, it wasn't that bad,
you know, So I mean that these are just small adjustments,

(30:33):
but we studied them because we started It's over Easy
a couple of years ago, which is an online divorce platform.
Twenty five years doing what I do in family law
and charging what my firm charges, I realized that probably
eighty percent of our cases could be done much more
efficiently and cost effectively if people actually did them on
their own. So we started It's over Easy, where you

(30:54):
can go online and you can actually file your papers,
fill them out, negotiate like it's online mediation, negotiate with
your spouse if you guys are both able to do that,
and then you've saved all this money in attorney's fees.
And it's got like a ton of contents. You can
read about divorce, you can meet up with other people
across the country they're getting divorce and chat rooms and stuff.
We've got great articles with amazing podcast and then we've

(31:16):
got the index which has all these resources for people,
so you can find somebody if you need to take
a step away for a second and go to a
real lawyer to get advice, if you need help with childcare,
if you want to sell your engagement ring. We've got
worthy dot com is an affiliate engage ring. You pay
your downposit your deposit on your apartment. We have people
for dating apps, we have people to help with mind

(31:37):
and what's the website. It's over easy. It's easy. It's
over easy. That's amazing. Yeah, I'll have to ask you something,
and I apologize if he's a silly question, but I
just need to know the marriage story Laura Darren. Yes,
was she like, it's not a silly question that I've
been getting this, asked this question for months? Was it you? Well,
I hope it wasn't me because he was kind of

(31:57):
die bogue. I mean, she was lackab all though she
was interested. She was like, oh my god, I don't
know if I can start her, but I love her.
I think I think that's probably how Laura felt about me.
I think she said it best when she said, like
all three of those divorce lawyer characters in that movie
were an amalgamation of people that all of them had
kind of worked with, because it wasn't just no a

(32:18):
bomb bocket was Scarlet and Adam and Laura all kind
of working on their experiences either as children of divorce
or having been divorced. And I think what they really
wanted to show is how broken this system is, and
as people who are part of the system, we as
family law attorneys, can be a bit broken. I mean, look,
she wanted to win for her client. She won for

(32:40):
her client. How she got there, or even the fact
that at one point she went a bit beyond even
what her client was asking UM was a little shitty.
And I don't think most family law attorneys do that.
But I think it's a cautionary tale in that if
you let yourself get sucked into this system, that's what
could happen. And you're paying somebody to actually be your
ad a kid and your voice to to say these

(33:02):
things like at that horrible scene at the council table
where both attorneys were saying these things and they're they're
sitting there like how is this happening to us? So, yes,
her office looked a lot like mine. We both wear
very nice I love, but I would like to think
that hopefully that was a little bit of artistic And
how you say that almost did you say a heightened

(33:22):
heightened version before you ask that question? I was like,
you're in such a tough position based on who you're
representing at the time, because you might fully agree a
dent and think that that person is Yeah, everything they're
asking for is reasonable, it makes total sense. And you
might get something that comes in with just off the
wall crazy requests and you're going, how do I represent
this person? Well, I'm lucky like that though I actually

(33:44):
don't have to represent the crazy. But I mean, I
just say I don't think we're a good fit. I mean,
I've had people come in and say, well, I'm the
mother and I should have full custody, and I say, okay,
let's talk about that. Why why do you think your
kids shouldn't see their dad at all? He cheated on me, Okay,
doesn't mean he's a bad dad. It's kind of a
dick spouse. I get it. I get where I'm getting divorce,

(34:04):
But don't you think your kids have a right to
experience their other parents? So those are the people I
send to one of my lovely colleagues who wants to
blow sunshine up there, ask and tell them. I mean,
it is particularly with people in your guys industry. You
guys are surrounded by a lot of people that are
working with you and that are getting a percentage of
what you are. So they want you out there, they

(34:25):
want you and maybe they want you working, and they
will say yes to you so that you are earning
and they get a percentage. They're not bad people. You're
all in this together. I get paid either way, I
at an hourly rate, and so I'm usually the first
person in a long time that some of these high
profile either high profile or just high net worth, whether
it's athletes, you know, investment bankers or entertainers that come

(34:47):
and I say no, and they say, exquise me what
I say, No, that's not gonna happen. I would like
to make it happen for you, but I can't make
it happen for you because that's not the law. I
am not a miracle worker. I have to just interpret
the law the best away and make it work so
those people I don't have to actually represent the craziest
you find yourself being a therapist through half of this process.
There's no way you can just be all business and

(35:08):
not be wrapped up in their emotional journey. At least
be compassionate for what they're going through. Has this ever
happened to you? And this is a true story. Crazy.
So maybe four years ago, I'm already married to Eric,
we have a kid, Sabella, and I get a text
from my ex husband saying I want to talk to you.
I'm freaking out because I haven't heard from him for
years and you didn't have kids with him. No, okay,

(35:30):
that's a good thing about the starter marriage because my
loving completely as a friend. So I tell Eric, oh
my god, I don't know. I don't know what's going on.
This person is calling me. What do I do? And
I don't want to say that that's person, that's person.
So I said, what what's going Oh my god, Hi,
how are you? What's going on? And he goes, well,

(35:51):
he was English and he was dealing with a visa.
He wanted to renew the visa. I don't know exactly
what it was. And he says I went to do
the paperwork and we're still married. And I'm like, no,
we're not. I have a husband. His name is Eric,
I have a kid. Her name is Sabella. I'm confused,
and he goes, well, I don't know what happened. There's
a technically there's a problem, but you're still married to me.
So I had to involve my lawyer and then my lawyer.

(36:12):
You had to get a family law lawyer. I had
to pay for my lawyer and his lawyer. It was
a namer. And then it was it was that it
was a mistake when they filed the paperwork. Something didn't
go through. I don't know what horrible to people, which also,
I mean, it could have gotten so much worse, because
then you could have been convicted of big me because
you're not and you're and no, he couldn't have or

(36:35):
fraud although you didn't know. But also your marriage to
Eric wasn't a real marriage. So then if you and
Eric split up and you had, like said, all this
community property. Now the presumption though there's even you can't
even go further. How old was Sabella at the time,
for your ex husband actually could have made a claim
that she was his. No, don't tell me. If a

(36:57):
married woman has a baby, the present in most states
is that the baby is her husband's. Yeah, I mean,
that's how crazy some of the one imagine but she
looks like that to Eric, what are you talking about?
That'll be funny, I mean that's how it was. How
crazy some of this You know, you could have probably
still said Alamon, he could have said all kinds of
stuff because he was married. He could have he could

(37:18):
have been super ugly. Yes, now I wonder if our
marriage then is not as long as we think it
was because technical. So then did you guys go and
get remarried. No? No, okay, they proved that it was
a mistaken from the courthouse or whatever. And they did,
and they say that what they did is probably they
backdated your divorce if it was the court fault. That's

(37:39):
called nouns protunk. So now you actually did get divorced
back then, So now you're married, actually has Sabella's your
Thank god. I've been really upset with our doctor at
that point. I think, how the hell did your ex
husband sperm that I knew it was going to happen.
He was speaking, this is impossible and say husband, child's divorced.

(38:02):
Oh my god, we actually we got married. We had
a proper wedding in Puerto Rico, but we got married
here first in the courthouse, which is yeah, straight up, yeah,
we have all the evidence. My lawyer, god blessing. He
was like, only the rosy um and so are you

(38:23):
familiar anothering? I want to ask you, are you familiar
with this divorce month? This is the thing in January
six was Divorced Day. Yes, that is something that's like
one of those holidays that like Collmark created or something
they can sell more cards. I don't know. It is
true that January is a very big month in our
field in terms of new clients because people come off

(38:43):
of the holidays, they've had to travel together, they've had
to go to their in laws together. They're usually in
close quarters and they're like, get me out. Also, people
don't usually initiate a divorce anytime between Thanksgiving and like
New Year's because you've got all the holidays and everything
that so people are also way eating. So any of
those people that were thinking about getting divorce like in
mid November, they're like, hold up, we're gonna wait. So

(39:05):
you've got those people, and you've got the people that
just had a horrible, horrible, you know, situation over the
holidays and they're like, I just can't do this for
a more year. And then you've got just people that
are going it's January New Start, especially Clarity Focus. I
had a woman that said to me this year, one
of my New New Year's resolutions is to lose a
hundred and seventy five pounds and his name is Steve.

(39:30):
So yeah, it's a big month. I don't know who.
I think it was the Brits that actually started Divorce Day,
which is the first Monday after New Year's Um. But yeah,
that's that's been. That's you know, the topic of divorce
and how people just get married and you know, you
have a note I'll divorce you know it's interesting and
then talk to us about your podcast. So the podcast
is launching on February eleven. It was initially called Divorce Sucks.

(39:52):
And we've been around Johnny and I for over a
year now, and it was because people wanted to kind
of talk more about divorce. What we found was people
were coming on. We had Kate Hudson on and she
wasn't talking about dovorce. She was talking about how it was,
you know, being raised by Goldie and Kurt who were
never married. She was talking about having you know, three

(40:13):
kids with three different fathers and how co parenting work.
We had Chloe Kardashian on and she was talking about
you know, co parenting and breaking up and new chapters.
So we were like, maybe we need to broaden the
spectrum of what we discussed to more human nature and relationships.
We were talking to siblings, we were talking to partners
and companies. We'll still talk about divorce because that's what
I know, but we'll also talk about all different facets

(40:35):
of how people get together, make up, break up, how
to keep relationships going, but also some of the practical
things about if you are going through a breakup or
a separation or divorce, what makes sense to deal with
in terms of your finances. Are there such things as
divorce psychics, Can crystals help you? What's the best way
to get back into shape? I mean, all that kind

(40:55):
of stuff really just a little bit bigger. And my
heart has been super about welcoming us and bringing us
and introducing us, and so we're very psyched about it.
That's also congratulations on that. Don't said. This was so
entertaining and educational and I think you're amazing and I
love you. And now neither on you could ever hire me,
which is really good. There'd be a conflict. I just
stay married, Laura. I don't even think about it. We'll

(41:18):
stroll dress straws right now. Thank you, so thanks for
having me guys. Thanks Ben. Hey, it's Eric Roslin here. Hello,
Eric and Roslin. How are you good? We are great.

(41:40):
Thank you for being here with us. We're so happy
to talk with you. We just had an outrageous sit
down with Laura Wasser, one of the top dollars. We
did her podcast. She's quite a character. It was so interesting,
it was very educational. We get to talk to you
about what I think is one of the most in
hiring books. I have a product of divorce, um, A

(42:02):
Happy Divorce, and your your book, Our Happy Divorce is
going to change change lives for so many people. That
was that was intention, so hopefully it will. It's really
really impressive. Um. So it started a little rock at
the beginning, right with you and your ex wife, UM Nikki,
which is completely uh a normal. You know, that's why

(42:23):
you're getting separated. There's an issue, there's a problem. You
don't want to be together anymore. So at what point
what was the turning point for you guys to be like,
this is not working, this is very damaging for a kid.
How do we do a different? Yeah? So I think
you know marriages, don't it because everything is great right there?
I left the house with some built up presentment and anger,

(42:43):
and so did so did Nikki. And I had called
a lawyer, um, and I was turning to uh, you know,
destroy Nikki and you know, making as public as possible.
And I hired this lawyer and he wrote up a
uh thirty page game plan basically on on how we
were going to do that, and uh, I hadn't read

(43:04):
it for a while, and I was on a plane
back from l A and I decided to pull it
out and read it. And I only got about two
pages into it, and I had that you know, moment
of clarity, if you will, and I realized that if
I go down this path of of what it says
in this uh warrant peace destruction manual, um, then I'm

(43:26):
gonna end up like my parents and and then in turn,
UH gonna give it in hand everything to my son um.
And at that point, I decided to go another route
and try my own path. So you are you were
a product of divorce yourself. I was a product of
a yeah, not so happy divorce, and that definitely what
that's that's great that you learned from that and actually

(43:47):
turned that into what became your new reality, because I, yeah, well,
I was just gonna say, you know that it's everything
happens for a reason. I'm I'm a true believer in there.
But even with all that being said, I would go
uh angry and bitter and resentful that even though I

(44:07):
had that experience with my my, my parents, and my
you know, my brothers and sister were that actually the
only ones who I ended up getting hurt, I still
was going to go blindly into you know that route.
How old was sure when you guys decided to separate?
He was three? Oh, he was baby. Baby, he was
a baby, He's a baby. I was set, but I

(44:30):
was talking. I was thinking about in my head like
I was seven, and what I registered at that age
when my parents got divorced. Um. I can't even imagine
a three year old processing it and figuring it out
as well. Oh and you know, we don't give little kids.
And I think it's a myth. Um that I can,
through my experience say that that you know, same kids
are resilient or they'll get over it, or they don't

(44:50):
know what's going on is a myth And I think
people need to move past that. Because asher would came
during our separation, I'd come put him to bed, go
to my hotel that I was staying in, and then
come early in the morning before you woke up. Um,
And so he he I thought that he thought that
I was there, and you know, lived in the house.
And one day he asked Nikki, he said, where did

(45:13):
Daddy sleep last night? And NICKI kind of like, Nikki
kind of got, you know, a little worried, and she
said to him, how do you know what? Why? And
he goes, because Daddy's beds not it doesn't look like
it's been slept in. There's And when when you and
Nikki decided to sort of turn that corner and say, okay,

(45:36):
we're gonna do this differently where you both immediately on board.
Did it take a little convincing because you obviously both
had to set your egos aside, and it came about
you know, this other being, this other you know soul
that mattered so much to you both. Um, once you
sort of looked at it through that lens, did it
Was it an easy decision or it still took some

(45:57):
It took some time. It was a simple. It was
a simple decision. I don't think, you know, just because
it's simple doesn't mean it was easy. And I think
if you you know, to wrap up our our divorce
from beginning to end to today, I mean beginning to
the middle to today. Uh, it's about accountability, um. And
I think we both went into the beginning of it

(46:18):
knowing or understanding and believing that it takes to to
make a relationship and it takes to to break it.
And um, you know, I called Nikki one day and
I asked her to coffee, and uh, I apologize to her, Um,
not for you know, what she had done wrong and
it was her fault, but for my part in the

(46:38):
in the ending of the marriage. And then she in
turn apologize to me, and you know we joke, you know,
not really uh far off, but I think it's the
only time we've apologized to each other to this day.
But you know, from that moment, uh, there was a
lot more room to move. There was a lot more
uh you know, not only apologizing but accepting the other

(47:00):
one's apology. And then from there, you know, understanding that
we have to be accountable for our actions. Um. And
it wasn't Asher who decided for us to get married.
It wasn't Asher who decided for us to get to
have him. It surely was Nash's choice for us to
get divorced, so we had to be accountable for actions
and not have him, uh suffer the consequences. And nowadays

(47:22):
you both are remarried, you both have kids, and you
have been able to make it work to the point
that your neighbors that your vacationed together, that you spending
holidays together with different kids, amazing trip to Safari, just
the two of you with that's incredible. Yeah, yeah, And
it's it's one of those things where you know, I
don't know, I don't think stepparents really get enough credit

(47:44):
in these you know, happy divorces or these co parenting ordeals,
because they too have to put you go aside. Uh,
and they too have to realize that Nicki and I,
you know, Chad, Nikki's husband, and Naddi and my wife
understand that there's nothing between Nicki and I except for
we're best friends and we have a beautiful child together. Um,
And there's no jealousy and there's no so you know,

(48:07):
they're all bought in. They all believe, you know, Nikki
and Nadia are best friend. When I go traveling, they'll
go get their nails done, or they'll go do you know,
shopping or whatever. Um. You know, Chad and I go
to UFC fights um and we hang out. So it's
just become this normal or deal. And no matter how

(48:28):
sort of crazy it seems the outside world, that's completely normal.
That we've dinner once a week as a family. We
try to um and like you said, we travel um.
And the trip to Africa was something that Asher was
always into animals when he was a kid, and instead
of reading Dr. Seuss books to bed a bed, he
wanted us to read uh animal cyclopedias, and he always

(48:49):
we always knew he wanted, we wanted. But then the
divorce happened and he was too young. And if anything
was going to send our divorce south, um, it wasn't
gonna be Rome answer finance. But if one of us
had taken Asher to Africa without the other one. So
this summer he was thirteen, and we, uh we took them.
And because Nadia has two young kids at home and

(49:12):
that is the sheriff of Hillsborough County, they just couldn't come.
So uh, you know, when I told Naughty that I
was taking Asher to Africa, the answer and vice versa
with telling Chad it wasn't oh, hell no, you're not
going to Africa with your Actually you crazy? It was
Asher will love that. What a great treat for him. Well,
you nailed it when you said, look, it's as much

(49:34):
as this is a massive accomplishment for the two of you,
what you've given Asher in this sort of new Uh
version of divorce, it couldn't have been done without your
two respective and credible partners, because those partners could have changed.
Even if you had everybody but one partner on board,
there's a different outcome in this scenario. So the fact
that you got everybody on board and everybody put love

(49:57):
first and put their egos aside, made the story, you know,
truly possible and incredible and hopefully an inspiration for people
just to open their eyes and pay attention. It's a
valuable rate. It's a valuable reason, you know, and nowadays
because it's so common, you know, having parents that are divorced,
it is so common, and you know, when the kids
are kids, it's where it's those formative years are so
important because many things, the outcome of their lives can

(50:18):
change dramatically with a very um, sad and impactful experience,
which divorce could be. So the reading is valuable. It's
important because if if people can have the maturity and
leave the egos side and understand when there's kids involved,
everything changes. The voice changes, you know, because now it's
not how you and the person, it's about how can
I raise this individual to become the best version of himself?

(50:42):
And we have to make it smooth and simple and loving.
And when it comes to divorce, parents, it's the responsibility.
You know, you're forming this mind. So I hope people
read it and people that are going through bad times,
that are going through shitty divorce because of financial reasons
or there's no come come, there's no comfortibility or or

(51:03):
or cheating involved, whatever it is, because divorce usually it's
ugly to understand. It's not about me, about you, it's
not about the circumstances. It's about how do we protect
this kid as much as possible? And you guys did
and it's well, you just nailed it. I mean, we
should have you as our spokesperson because that's exactly it.
I mean to the t. You know, it's not about uh,

(51:23):
you know, our book isn't about the gory details of
our divorce, you know, only a d and ninety pages.
We don't talk about who did what or who didn't
do what, you know, because all that doesn't matter. All
that you know, all that stuff of why it ended
didn't matter. And we've put that in the past by
by apologizing to each other and accepting each other's apology

(51:45):
and moving on. Yeah. Yeah, and one thing that I wanted.
This is just my personal experience. And my parents have
been together for almost sixty years. You know, I'm from
Pueno Rico, and it's well, we four children. We will
never understand why they're together because there it's almost like
a sitcomm. You know, they can't stand each other, but
they can't live without each other with it is it's funny,

(52:05):
it's sad, it's brutal, and for us, even though they're together,
I grew up with parents constantly not talking very positively
about the other. And I think when you go into
a divorce, it's so it's the human nature to just
be like, well, you and your mom, you know, and
and even though you're hating your partner at the moment,

(52:27):
the most crucial thing is do not talk negatively about
your about the dad or the mom, because you know,
that's something that you as a child carry with yourself
for the rest of your life, and it is damaging.
I don't even know how I made it into life
and I became great, like you know, I mean like
I kind of like I was able to to compromentalize

(52:48):
how you say that, and be like, you know what,
I'm gonna have to just put that in a little
box and still respect my dad, even though my mom
fed me all this stuff for years, because he's a
human being and he was a great provide her. And
I don't respect every single choice he made, and I
don't like the way my mom speaks about him. But
I just I don't. I don't. I don't want to
form my life with that hatred, you know. I just

(53:10):
want to be able to keep it in a little
corner and listen. It has been. It has taken me
therapy and many years a understanding. Some issues sometimes come up,
but I just go, I think I have that issues,
you know, But I was strong enough to be able
to be like, I'm gonna go through my life on
my destiny and I'm gonna write my own book, and
I'm gonna I'm not gonna allow their relationship to define me,

(53:30):
but a lot of times kids do, and that's a
very very big problem. And whether you're divorced, you know
your parents are divorced her together, you know. I remember
sitting there as a thirteen year old UM and one
of the parents was talk talking bad about the other
one and at the kid. As a child, UM, to
hear those things about your parents, knowing that you can't

(53:53):
say anything because it's only gonna make it worse, and
you sort of just have to sit there and take it.
And meanwhile, if anybody else was talking about your parents
like that, you would probably punch from the mouth. But
as a kid, you have to sit there, you know,
and take it. It's a terrible place to be. It's
literally feeding your kids poison hoping. Yeah, you know, well,

(54:14):
kudos do you guys? Us did an incredible thing. I
love it. It's it's uh, it's a great way to
have this podcast finish out where people can hear all
the different sides of divorce and how how simply it
can be handled and in the right way. So thank
sure that everybody check out our Happy Divorce. It's available now,
and Ben, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank

(54:35):
you so much for giving a piece of your platform
to this important message and we're grateful. Thank you very much.
Thank you by all. That was quite uh the episode
different podcast. Where As usually we we want to keep
it light and funny and we want people to just um,
escape and enjoy and not think too much, but we

(54:56):
give you a lot of thinking to Yeah. The good
news is we have a rate divorce lawyer now and
we know how to conjecting joking, injecting again. You know,
keep keep your head on straight, keep on and love
first and uh, you know, put your kids first when

(55:16):
you have kids exactly, Guys, it's very it's very different
when you are when there's no children involved. When there's
kids involved, everything changes. Divorce and no divorce. It's work
is a beautiful it's the best, most beautiful job in
the world. Keep it respectful, keep it loving, keep it intact.
That was fun. That was fun. I love you. Subscribe
to he said a v hoo on iHeart Radio, Apple

(55:38):
podcast or anywhere you get your podcasts.