September 18, 2023 • 33 mins
Ros explains her unexplained encounter with a flying saucer...while Eric explores his fascination with UFO's during this eye-opening conversation with renowned Scientist and Professor Matthew Szydagis. Matthew is also one of the stars of "The Proof Is Out There" which airs new episodes Fridays on History. We pick his brain about the recent whistleblower testimony, alleged government cover-ups, and whether he believes there is life somewhere out there! From Roselyn to Roswell, this interview is so extra(terrestrial)!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is he said av Home with Eric Winter and
Rodalin Fantas.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He see you over from AFAR podcast space right now.
But listen, we have a great guest today. I'm so
excited Professor Matthew Shots. I'm saying that correctly, professor at
University of Albany, and he listen. I've been talking about
UFOs for a while. I want to talk to somebody
(00:31):
who has some knowledge in this space, and he's someone
that really seems to have that background. He is a
part of so many things that I'm not even sure
I can pronounce properly. Weekly Interacting massive Particles program studying that,
the large underground Xenon Noble element simulation technique.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I mean, these are things that are going of both
of our heads. But let's bring in that.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I can't wait to talk to him about the whistleblower
story from Jill with the government finally acknowledging UFOs.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm great? How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
My wife is to because I've been talking on our
podcast for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I've been a tonne of producers. I want to talk
more about UFOs.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
We saw this incredible documentary. I'm obsessed with UoS and
I know you have a very extensive background, Matthew in
the sciences, and you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Cover a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I was looking at everything that you're a part of.
Let's see, I'm even pursuing experimental particle astrophysics, in particular
the direct laboratory detection of dark matter whimps. Right is
I either weekly interacting massive particles and he works on
work on the LUXE Large Underground xenon and developer of
(01:54):
NESTS Noble element simulation technique. I mean, these are things
that sound already out of this world. Can you tell
us a little bit about your background and these things
before we dive into some other stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Sure. Yeah, So my primary day job effort is the
search for dark matter, which we know is there from
indirect sort of observation lavidence from astronomy and astrophysics and cosmology,
but we don't know what it is, what particle is
associated with dark matter, if any, and so primarily I
(02:26):
work as a particle physicist. I build new types of
particle and radiation detectors in the hopes of identifying this
unknown particle of the dark matter. So that's really what's
occupied my time from graduate school when I got my
PhD to my postdoctoral work and now as faculty at
(02:47):
the University at Albany SUNNI in New York.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Can you break down even the topic of dark matter
a little bit more like for people who don't my
wife probably as well. I just know what dark matter?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Gonna actually ask that for people like.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Me that have no idea about anything. You know, when
I think.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
About dark matter, agujerros or scuros in Spanish, what does
that even mean?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Is that a hole that has no sound?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Nothing?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Is it? Like? What is it? We don't know? Well,
we do know some basic properties. So the observations I
mentioned earlier from astronomy tell us that there's more matter.
There's more math than we can see visibly, and we
know it's there because it produces a gravitational effect, and
(03:37):
we know from different types of cosmological observations it's not
simply just ordinary matter that makes up you and me,
but that happens to be in a in a darker form.
But it's literally something different. It can't be you know, protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms,
the particles we know in love already. It's got to
(03:57):
be something else that interacts primarily through gravity or only
through gravity, and doesn't experience the other forces. So the
term dark refers to the fact that it doesn't interact
with electricity and magnetism, so it doesn't produce or emit
light on its own.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So essentially the opposite of like the matter on Earth,
as we know, everything that we know has to be
direct matter on our planet, right, there's no it's something
out there outside the use.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I wouldn't call it opposite because it produces positive gravity
the same way as regular matter. And also, you know,
then there's antimatter, which is a completely different thing, and
so I would hesitate to call it an opposite, especially
because I mean, we like to think of it. You know,
space is out there, but it's right here too, right
the eACT moving throughouter space around the Sun. So there's
(04:50):
dark matter inside of all of you right now, you know,
as we're talking, passing harmlessly through our body, just like
neutrinos and all kinds of other particles that just are
constantly passing harmlessly through our bodies at really very very
high rates because they interact very rarely, which makes them
difficult to attact.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Within the universe. Within the universe, we don't know what
is the function. If there's any of the dark of
these dark matters, we don't know what they exist.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Oh, on the contrary, we do seem to understand. Well,
it depends what you mean by function. We do know
that without dark matter there would be no galaxies, so
there would be no stars, planets and life. You know,
and why conversations because dark matter is necessary gravitationally to
create clumps. So what happens is that we think happens
(05:42):
over billions of years of dark matter clumps first and
then it attracts ordinary matter. So that's how we get galaxies,
we get galaxy clusters, we get star clusters. Is that
dark matters gravity pulls starts pulling things together, so it's
a necessary ingredient.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Oh wow, I have a question for you, switching topics
a little bit, and I think it's all correlated. But
you know, the possible exystem of UFOs has fascinated.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
People for decades.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
I'm sure you know this very well, and in recent
years it has become an even HoTT a topic because
of the US did classifying information.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Why do you think the government is doing that now?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I think there are several there are several reasons why.
One is that as technology gets better for ordinary people,
you know, everyone's got a smartphone with a camera, that
it's getting to the point where eventually the best evidence
(06:46):
the government you know, may or may not have can
get proceeded by something that just you know, that someone
gets on their phone and sticks on YouTube before the
government can feel and classify it. So I think that's
one motivation is that as technology that's available to ordinary
people who aren't part of you know, defense department or
(07:08):
something like that, is getting to the point where, you know,
right now, what we possess, what we can buy as
iPhones or androids, things like that, is better by like
a factor of ten than the highest camera technology that
would secret that the government had in the nineteen eighties.
For examples, like you know, what we have now that
(07:30):
we can just hold in the palm of our hands
is vastly superior. So I think that's one reason is
it's only a matter of time before someone catches some
such undeniable, you know, evidence on their smartphone that there's
no point in class lying things anymore. And another thing
is there are two factions. Actually we can see this
in the recent congressional hearings. We tease a lot. I
(07:52):
think there are warring factions within the US government. One
that wants that is for disclosure, one that wants to
prevent it for whatever reasons. I don't know. You know,
we can we can speculate what's.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Your personal belief because I know you spoke, you know,
you've been quoted saying that proof of UFOs would be
the single biggest.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Discovery in human history. In your prob.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Obviously you believe that they I'm guessing based on the
stuff I'm understanding that you have some believe in UFOs.
I mean, do you think, without question, all these documentaries,
all these things to talk about the government has Area
fifty one, is that what it was in Vegas?
Speaker 6 (08:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
All these different government sites where they have UFOs kept
and they have you know, bodies and things like that.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Do you believe all of that is possible or fact
in your mind?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Or I mean we're speculating, I know, but based on
your experience of being around this and science.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Well, as a scientist, belief is not enough. We try
not to use that word. What are what are the facts?
What's the proof, what's the evidence? So but also we
need to distinguish. I think UFOs undeniably exist in in
terms of misidentified you know, objects that people are misidentify.
It could be meteors, airplanes, anything, as you go. FO.
(09:06):
As long as you're unidentified, you don't know what it is. Yeah,
andally even but it sounds to me like you're taking
the next step and saying, oh, UFOs are alien spaceships. THO.
There are two steparate questions right now whose undeniably exists?
But the question is, the crazy question is could some
of them be spacecraft operated by non human intelligences? And
(09:29):
the way I see it right now is I think
that's it's more probable than ever before in my mind.
I don't know if you saw in the most recent
congressional hearing, there was you know, David Grush, that's not
famous whistleblower who basically claims we have ships and bodies
like in front of Congress. And of course you can
still be lying or making it up whatever, But I
(09:49):
find it remarkable that now the options we're down to
are either burgery in front of Congress. Yeah, more aliens, right,
you know, I mean like we're down to some it's
quite remarkab Well, now I have to stress so that
with with without hard evidence, it's still just hearsay. Anyone
can say anything, like, you know, I believe that that
Grush believes what he says, you know, but without like
(10:13):
you know, there was an article on the Onion even
that you know, David Grush rolls out alien body. You know,
I want to see we got to see the bodies
and the ships, just saying there there is absolutely nowhere
near enough. You know, that's not that that's not convincing,
that's not scientific evidence. If you know, trust me, bro,
that's not doesn't count.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Let's say that they actually disclosed and they and they
show us the body and the ship and all that.
I wonder if naysayers are still gonna believe, oh, that's
all fabricated, that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Was all, you know, that's not.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Especially effects person movie, and actually recreate something that looks
like an alien, you know, Like, I don't know at
the end of the day, if anybody's.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Gonna really believe this is a fact, this is the DNA.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
Or whatever chromosomal code they have, you know, to believe
that this is for real.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Guys, they exist and we have it. It's right here
in front of us.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
No, you're absolutely right. I think there would just be
most a lot of people would say, no, it's fake,
you know, it's just it's just it's cgi, And so
it wouldn't even help at this point we're in in
this era, you know, fake news and all that. Even
if it was real and disclosed, there would still be
a huge number of people who still wouldn't acknowledge the truth.
(11:43):
And you'd also have people, so you have people who
say it's fake, and you'd have also another group of people,
I think, who wouldn't care at all. But I think
this is even more motivation to just get the truth
out there. If there is this significant you know, again,
we don't have the proof that there is a non
human intelligence or anything like that, but if there is
(12:03):
as as you know, as as Eric said I said earlier,
that would be the most important discovery in human history period,
you know, hands down. But I think that we are
at a stage in our society because we.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Got you know, special effects photoshop, you know, way better
than photoshop, you know, things now that people even presented
with the proof wouldn't accept it even if.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
That proof was real and not fabricated. And I think the.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Problem is there's still they say, is even now about
the moon land, you know things like that, People that
just believe it was all recreated react, it's all built up.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And I think because of that, I think it's always.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Going to be a he said, She said, conversation for everybody,
because I don't think that I personally, I don't think
there's ever going to be a day the government comes
out and says point blank, look we have a UFO
here it is.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
You can come see it at the National Museum or
you can go and even then, is it real? You
know what I mean? Is it? Is it just a model?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I don't know if there would because I have to
believe the government always keeps things, you know, close to
the vest, with.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Many many facets of our.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Our government, our world politics, everything right, Like, there's just
too many things the government holds close to the vest
for a number of reasons, and I think this is
one of the that's going to last for a long time.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I don't see it, but do you?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I do, because I think it's hard to put the
genie back on the bottle now because you don't just
have you know, you have David Grush, you have the pilots,
like like you've got David Fraver, You've got Ryan Graves,
and then you've got the people I work with, like
Gary Forese, who was on who was you know, on
one of the Navy ships involved in the twenty and
forty and it's encounter. You've got too many people who've
(13:44):
seen too many things. And also, if David Grush is
to be believed, and again, you know, we have to
have a healthy dose of skepticism. If he's right, you know,
and supposedly very advancing, you know, civilizations are capable of crashing.
It's only a matter of time before, you know, thetistics
where there's the crash and comes backyard and it ends
up on YouTube and someone you know, you know, chops
(14:06):
off an alien finger and puts it in their freezer,
and the proof can can't be captured and classify. The
US government's too late. It's in the hands of pavilions,
and it's too late. You can't get it all back.
And so I think it's only a matter of time
before something like that happens, where statistically to the point
where you can't keep a lid on things anymore because
(14:27):
the proof is just so in your face, because you
literally have you know, like a crash in someone's backyard
and they and the government can't clean it up fast enough,
and someone steals a piece and preserves it and gives
it the scientists and and it's it's too late. It
can't get classified.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I hope that happens.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I hope it doesn't just become you know, conversations about
another you know, social media influencer doing something to likes.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
You think crazy?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
What happened not too long ago.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
I think it was this kid saw something in the
backyard and there's actually footage of the image of the alien,
and the cops came in, and the cups didn't want
to get involved as everybody was freaking out.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Do you think that was all of fabrication?
Speaker 5 (15:10):
And when you see that footage on YouTube, do you
go as a specialist, as a scientist, oh my god,
there's something there.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah. No, one of one video a particular incident is
not good enough because in order to make sure that
something isn't fabricated. To reduce that chance, what we really
need is the same incident from two or three different
camera at a different angle. That's what we lack most
of the time, and that's what really really changes everything.
(15:39):
That's why. For example, one of the things I find
most convincing is there was in the mid nineteen nineties,
I don't remember the exact year, but there was a
total solar eclipse over Mexico City and everyone was looking
at the sky and people captured weird things like silver
flying saucer shaped things from different cameras, different angles. People
(16:00):
didn't even know each other or talk to each other
from across the city, and it's it's it's things like
that that I find more compelling than it's just one
dude in their backyard. That's really easy to fake, especially nowadays,
But when you have two or three angles of the
same object, that is very different, and that I think
is a much higher standard of evidence. And that's what
(16:23):
we need for something as speculative and exotic as this is.
We need, you know, very high standard of evidence.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
In all your years of science and the people you've
been around, what has been the story that you can
share that has blown your mind the most that you go,
you know, wow, that one I'm a.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Believer or that one? You know what? Has there been
one in specific?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yes, it's the same one that most people say, though
it's the twenty seventeen New York Times article where they
talked about the two thousand and four Nimits encounter and
the you know, this is the part of the three
Navy videos that that leaked, and then we're quote unquote
officially you know, declassified because even though you know they
look they're black and white and grainy's what's spectacular about
(17:12):
them is you can analyze the footage and see that
there are speeds in accelerations that no human craft should
be capable of. And in fact, my my colleague, professor
Kevin Kanuth, he actually has a peer reviewed scientific paper
that actually he published many years ago already showing that
the debunkers, you know, like Mick West, were wrong and
(17:33):
there were actual high velocities and accelerations that would rip
the wings out of a standard aircraft and would turn
a human body into jelly, you know, like there's not
possible velocities and accelerations. And I find that really, really,
I find that the most compelling because it's not hearsay,
it's not an eyewitness saying this is what I saw.
(17:54):
You actually have you know, camera footage, and this isn't
someone's backyard, this is mill Terry pilots who are trained
and know what a commercial aircraft look like. They know
what a Russian jet looks like. You know what a
Chinese jet looks like. It's not one of those things.
But most importantly is the data, just the raw footage
(18:14):
itself can be analyzed to show that these are not
normal aircraft. That's what convinced me to start looking at this, starting,
you know, around two thousand. It was twenty eighteen nineteen.
I mean the article was seventeen. But I got convinced
by my friend Heaven, who's the professor here also, to
really start taking it seriously.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
I'm almost military pilots, and just like regular commercial airline pilots.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Are they schooled?
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Is there a code that they know if somehow you
encounter on an identified thing like a UFO, are they
ordered to just continue their path like nothing? Are they
ordered to stay hang around to see if they can
actually clarify and get images of what that is like.
As a pilot, what do you do you see something
(19:00):
like that right in front of you?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
So this was covered in the recent congressional hearings. Actually,
right now, there is no consistent set of guidelines in
terms of like what you should do and when you
should report. And so it's a mess right now. And
it's different for commercial versus military pilots. So a lot
of commercial airline pilots are afraid to say anything because
they are afraid people will laugh at them, you know.
(19:24):
And and so you know, back then, you know, at
the lounge at the airport, they'll make you you know,
they'll have like they like, flying saucer cartoons and drawings
and and then and so I think there's still a
lot of stigma and a lot of fear. So I
think most of the time people just just pretend it's
not happening and just keep going, you know, keep doing
what they're doing with their with their flight path. And
(19:45):
that's really dangerous because what if sometimes you know, it
has nothing to do with non human craft, what if
it is you know, rock in or Chinese, you know,
like the spy balloon incident. So if we don't allow
people to report, then there will be human ast that
it's from a foreign power that gets unreported. And that's
even I think more dangerous than alien you know, because
(20:07):
aliens might be you know, we don't know if they're
good guys, bad guys, if they exist but you know,
if we have a foreign adversary that's slipping in like
the Chinese Fi balloon incident, that proves that it's really
dangerous to tell people not to report, or to have
a culture where people can't report because they're free.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Now, have you yourself ever had any sighting of any kind?
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Because my wife thinks.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
She has, my mom thinks she has, her dad thinks
she has. Have you ever experienced anything or anybody very
close to you that has experienced something.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
As a child, I didn't see something, but it turned
out to be a satellite in retrospect, so I don't.
I haven't had anything I can really count as unidentified
that I've actually seen. On when I was in the
UFO documentary A Tearing the Sky by Carolyn Corey, though
we did catch something, but I was never like there live.
It was like later on, you know, review the footage
(21:07):
and stuff. But so I haven't seen something like directly
directly myself that I couldn't eventually explain easily. So I
personally have not witnessed anything with my own two eyeballs.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Can I tell you something?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
And I I've mentioned this before the podcast and everic
things that I'm probably crazy. But I was in my
bedroom in Los Angeles, California, and I'm looking out the
big glass door and I see this thing fly as
so many It was an airplane stop completely stop, completely,
didn't move, and then went. I went backwards and it
disappeared within two seconds, and I go.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I was like, and I told him I just saw
this thing. And I was like, I'm crazy.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
There's no way I was. I saw it. I saw it.
And then I was waiting for the next day. I'm
looking for the news, the papers, because I assumed I'm
not the only one.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Something is gonna the news, Katie La news, somebody's gonna say.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Something about a sighting in Studio City, California or whatever
in California, and nothing was ever told.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
So to this day, I just go, did I see that?
Am I crazy? But I swear to you, I think.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
I saw it.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
It's the weirdest things.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
We don't have craft that have the ability to stop midair.
We we do to it. We do to a point
with things like with with drones, but it's not that
easy and it's not like they can you know, they
cannot step off at some of the speeds of some
of some encounters reported like yours.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I swear to you I saw that, and have you
do you believe or do you know of any real
documentation of abductions, Like people that actually they're taken and
they come back to Earth and they say, I think
I've been explored, I have a scar, I don't know
where it came from, and they truly believe that they
(23:06):
left this realm and when somewhere else for research purposes
and come back to Earth.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Do you believe in that?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Again, I like to stay away from we have the
fact establish. I think it's worth studying, but I'm very
skeptical of these stories. I would like to study this
and get to the bottom of it, but it's very
tricky because the way the only way I can think
of trying of trying to solve that mystery, would you know,
be very tricky in terms of privacy issues and things
(23:40):
like that. But a lot of people claim to be
repeat abductees. So the way I would want to solve
this mystery, in my opinion, once and for all, is
cameras in the bedrooms, right, prove it. Let's get the proof.
Even if the camera breaks and goes fuddy, that's proof itself.
Right of something here happening. So I again, we cannot
go by people's stories. I've never seen any physical evidence,
(24:02):
like people claim, you know, they have implants in them,
But then where are those implants? Can we test them?
Can we have scientists test the actual metal people claim
I've been put in their body. There's been no scientific
has done. So I would love to see the hard
evidence of that, of something happening. I said, I'm open
to the possibility, but I'm much more skeptical of the
(24:23):
abduction angle than the then you know, photos and videos,
things in the sky, because with the abduction stuff, you know,
again it's hearsay and people can just make stuff up.
But when you have evidence from sensors, especially from multiple
cameras or different kinds of sensors, I mean, there's still
sensor ghosts and artifacts, but that's much harder to fake
(24:48):
than to just than to just tell a story. So
I'm definitely more skeptical of the whole abduction abduction angle.
I am more I am. I am open to it,
but I just wish someone would think of something, you know,
as Michael Kaka says, this steal something from the Champrove. It,
you know, like prove it, like just steal something, and
(25:09):
like then the then the answer is, oh, of course
aliens won't let you steal something. Yeah, that's a cop out.
So like I just let's get get some hard evidence
of something like a piece of technology that we can
defend it and we say it's not human. There's just
I worry that there's so many. There's literally millions of
these abductions. There's millions, not thousands, I think, but millions
(25:30):
of people claims doesn't.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Happen, So not even one in a million.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Chances of someone catching something, you know, like some physical
piece of evidence. I find that absolutely remarkable because even
if there's some civilization that's more advanced than humans, I'm
sure there's still flesh and blood, right, they're still made
of of salves or something similar. There's still not infallible
and can still make a mistake. And really one in
(25:55):
a million, like one person doesn't get away with sometimes
piece of evidence. So yeah, I'm very skeptical of the
whole abduction and contact teath phenomenon because I feel like
it's not as solid as having photos and videos and
those types of things.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
What's really scary to me is to think that you know,
as advance as we are as human beings, you know,
to know that there's another creature that exists that is
much more advanced than us, that they're able to get
to us, but we haven't been able to go to
where they come from.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
That's what's really scary.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It's entirely possible, I said, I just think we don't
have the evidence, but it's entirely possible. There are beings
way way more advanced than humans that I wouldn't say
is not only possible, that's almost certain, certainly probable. The
question is, is what are the odds that they can traverse
(26:50):
large interstellar distances or whatever the equivalent of, you know,
interdimension or whatever other thing and come to Earth. That
is a completely separate question. I think that's in my mind.
There's no question there are civilizations out there, and on average,
half of them are less advanced than us, you know,
case people and things like that on countless planets, and
(27:10):
half of them are more advanced than us. Just statistically,
we should assume that without evidence of the contrary, and
that humanity is somewhere in the middle of some sort
of you know, near the average, is I think a
good starting assumption to me.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, that's always my believe. The universe is far too fast.
I don't matter how impossible. We're the only love and
planet with civilization on it. Just that feels impossible. So
this is fascinating. I love your passion for all of this.
I just I'm going to go back to just a step.
At what point did you decide.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
In your childhood.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I know you're a Star Trek fan, there are producer
total list, and you got ury into science that way,
I'm sure, But to.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Be a physicist, to study all the things you study.
I was a psycho biology major when I.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Was in college to want to be a doctor, and
I just remember going through calculus based physics and all
these things are going, Oh my god, this is so difficult.
I mean, the level of science knowledge you have. What
what was the turning point for you? And what age
did you decide this is the path.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I want to go down.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Oh, I know, four or five? Very lumber Yeah. Now,
I've always knew when I wanted to be a scientist.
Really yeah, I've never changed my mind. I've never wavered
between elementary school, high school, college, Like, never I would
change my mind about what type of science yeah, I never.
I always knew from at least kindergarten, I said that
(28:33):
that was going to be a science.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Really and then being a physicist, which to me is
one of the most difficult It's just one of the
most most difficult things to understand and wrap your head around.
That happened later as you went into college and you
started to specialize and go into what you're going to
do with science.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Well, I pretty much always knew it was going to
be physical astronomy. And the thing about physics is that
I felt like with physics I could do or learn anything.
Then this is going to like anger all of your
listeners who are like chemistry biologists, But it's like the
XKCD comic. I like to think of chemistry and apply
physics and biologies, apply chemistry and psychology, applied biology. That
(29:09):
doesn't mean physics is like the bottom foundation, because physics
is applied math. There's math is the foundation of everything.
So I'm not saying that this is the one best thing.
Actually no, I'm not. Actually the mathematicians get to say that.
But so I feel like with physics you can sort
of be a little bit of jack of all trades
because you want to do some you know, chemistry, and
then there's some condensed matter of physics material science. When
(29:31):
with the biology is biophysics. You know, you want to
do astronomy as astrophysics, So I feel like you can
you can dabble a bit without becoming the master of
that field, because if you did, you would be chemist
and biologists. But I feel like there's a lot of
inter there's a lot of interdisciplinary you know, intersections that
that that happened or really within physics.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Well that's great, Matthew.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Thank you so much for hanging with us and answering
our questions. Fascinating to me, this is something I've always
wanted to dive into. More so, we really appreciate your time, Roz.
Is there anything else you wanted to add?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
No, I'm good.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I appreciate your time, Mattie. This is fascinating.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
We're obsessed with the topic and to be able to
pick your brain somebody is so incredibly smart and it's
pretty it's pretty awesome. And to know that you believe that, yes,
it exists, you just have to be undeniable.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
But that makes me very happy.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Well, thank you, Matthew, all the best.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Thank you for inviting me, bye, Well, there you have it.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
That was really interesting.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
I'm so glad that at least he said, yeah, it's
I have no doubt that it exists. We just have
to see concrete, flesh proof. But somebody at some point
is going to be able to provide that because there's
no way you know it. Probably it exists, but whoever
has it in the government, it is so classified that
they don't want to release it because I truly believe
(30:56):
the government all governments are going to think that it's
going to be.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Massive hysteria and we don't know as humans.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
How are we going to deal when we know for
a fact there's a little etams on home right in
front of you.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Well, because I feel like that's gonna and I agree
with it, it's going to be probably sooner than later
because of the way our technology is now that we
will probably come to some proof out there that's undeniable
at some point. But I just don't know how long,
because I feel like a lot of that proof might
exist already that that government just are never going to
share it. Even if you had some kind of let's say,
(31:32):
a spacecraft land in the backyard, not you know, tomorrow night,
you know what I mean, and we find it.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
I think what's gonna happen, Eric, is that it's going
to be again. I'm going to use the word again
on deniable. I think at some point, because there have
been some crashes, clearly some people have a lot of
people have reported that, you know, even the government says
that they have stuff because of crashes. I think at
some point there's going to be a crash in the
middle of Times Square, in the middle of a place
(31:56):
that it is so evident because more thousands, hundreds, it
needs to be there, and that people will see it
that the government has absolutely no excuse anymore because it's
right all over the news and it's running well.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
It would have to be that, just like a Roswell
type thing. But back then there was no social media,
there were no phones like you kepture.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Video would have to be something in a place heavily populated,
and that's what.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You get somebody's yard, someone's house, someone's whatever. Again, I
think it's going to be shut down, you know, closed up.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
It has to be a public place, it has to
be a public place.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Well, until then, I will just hold on to the
fact that you've seen a light zip around.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I saw, I saw one. I'm going to go to
my grave saying that I saw that night.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
A gummy.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I don't like them.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
No party, you didn't have them that night. When you
saies like that.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
I hate him.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
You know that.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
No, I was perfectly clear.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
All right, Well we'll see until next time. Enjoy Miami
and be it away from home. Sorry, guys, well.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
You know nobody can see that.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
This sound is gonna be funky most likely, but I'm
in Miami in Sata Hotel room.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
It's not the podcast room.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
So I apologize for the noises and the lack of
good quality audio.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Next week will be better.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Love you, I love you. Thanks for listening. Don't forget
to write us a review and tell us what you think.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
If you want to follow us on Instagram, check us
out at e said Ajab or at email Eric and
Ross at iHeartRadio dot com. He said, Ajab is part
of iHeartRadio's Mike would do that podcast network.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
N
This is he said av Home with Eric Winter and
Rodalin Fantas.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He see you over from AFAR podcast space right now.
But listen, we have a great guest today. I'm so
excited Professor Matthew Shots. I'm saying that correctly, professor at
University of Albany, and he listen. I've been talking about
UFOs for a while. I want to talk to somebody
(00:31):
who has some knowledge in this space, and he's someone
that really seems to have that background. He is a
part of so many things that I'm not even sure
I can pronounce properly. Weekly Interacting massive Particles program studying that,
the large underground Xenon Noble element simulation technique.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I mean, these are things that are going of both
of our heads. But let's bring in that.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I can't wait to talk to him about the whistleblower
story from Jill with the government finally acknowledging UFOs.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I'm great? How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
My wife is to because I've been talking on our
podcast for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I've been a tonne of producers. I want to talk
more about UFOs.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
We saw this incredible documentary. I'm obsessed with UoS and
I know you have a very extensive background, Matthew in
the sciences, and you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Cover a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I was looking at everything that you're a part of.
Let's see, I'm even pursuing experimental particle astrophysics, in particular
the direct laboratory detection of dark matter whimps. Right is
I either weekly interacting massive particles and he works on
work on the LUXE Large Underground xenon and developer of
(01:54):
NESTS Noble element simulation technique. I mean, these are things
that sound already out of this world. Can you tell
us a little bit about your background and these things
before we dive into some other stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Sure. Yeah, So my primary day job effort is the
search for dark matter, which we know is there from
indirect sort of observation lavidence from astronomy and astrophysics and cosmology,
but we don't know what it is, what particle is
associated with dark matter, if any, and so primarily I
(02:26):
work as a particle physicist. I build new types of
particle and radiation detectors in the hopes of identifying this
unknown particle of the dark matter. So that's really what's
occupied my time from graduate school when I got my
PhD to my postdoctoral work and now as faculty at
(02:47):
the University at Albany SUNNI in New York.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Can you break down even the topic of dark matter
a little bit more like for people who don't my
wife probably as well. I just know what dark matter?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Gonna actually ask that for people like.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Me that have no idea about anything. You know, when
I think.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
About dark matter, agujerros or scuros in Spanish, what does
that even mean?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Is that a hole that has no sound?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Nothing?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Is it? Like? What is it? We don't know? Well,
we do know some basic properties. So the observations I
mentioned earlier from astronomy tell us that there's more matter.
There's more math than we can see visibly, and we
know it's there because it produces a gravitational effect, and
(03:37):
we know from different types of cosmological observations it's not
simply just ordinary matter that makes up you and me,
but that happens to be in a in a darker form.
But it's literally something different. It can't be you know, protons, neutrons, electrons, atoms,
the particles we know in love already. It's got to
(03:57):
be something else that interacts primarily through gravity or only
through gravity, and doesn't experience the other forces. So the
term dark refers to the fact that it doesn't interact
with electricity and magnetism, so it doesn't produce or emit
light on its own.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So essentially the opposite of like the matter on Earth,
as we know, everything that we know has to be
direct matter on our planet, right, there's no it's something
out there outside the use.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I wouldn't call it opposite because it produces positive gravity
the same way as regular matter. And also, you know,
then there's antimatter, which is a completely different thing, and
so I would hesitate to call it an opposite, especially
because I mean, we like to think of it. You know,
space is out there, but it's right here too, right
the eACT moving throughouter space around the Sun. So there's
(04:50):
dark matter inside of all of you right now, you know,
as we're talking, passing harmlessly through our body, just like
neutrinos and all kinds of other particles that just are
constantly passing harmlessly through our bodies at really very very
high rates because they interact very rarely, which makes them
difficult to attact.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Within the universe. Within the universe, we don't know what
is the function. If there's any of the dark of
these dark matters, we don't know what they exist.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Oh, on the contrary, we do seem to understand. Well,
it depends what you mean by function. We do know
that without dark matter there would be no galaxies, so
there would be no stars, planets and life. You know,
and why conversations because dark matter is necessary gravitationally to
create clumps. So what happens is that we think happens
(05:42):
over billions of years of dark matter clumps first and
then it attracts ordinary matter. So that's how we get galaxies,
we get galaxy clusters, we get star clusters. Is that
dark matters gravity pulls starts pulling things together, so it's
a necessary ingredient.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Oh wow, I have a question for you, switching topics
a little bit, and I think it's all correlated. But
you know, the possible exystem of UFOs has fascinated.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
People for decades.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
I'm sure you know this very well, and in recent
years it has become an even HoTT a topic because
of the US did classifying information.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
Why do you think the government is doing that now?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
I think there are several there are several reasons why.
One is that as technology gets better for ordinary people,
you know, everyone's got a smartphone with a camera, that
it's getting to the point where eventually the best evidence
(06:46):
the government you know, may or may not have can
get proceeded by something that just you know, that someone
gets on their phone and sticks on YouTube before the
government can feel and classify it. So I think that's
one motivation is that as technology that's available to ordinary
people who aren't part of you know, defense department or
(07:08):
something like that, is getting to the point where, you know,
right now, what we possess, what we can buy as
iPhones or androids, things like that, is better by like
a factor of ten than the highest camera technology that
would secret that the government had in the nineteen eighties.
For examples, like you know, what we have now that
(07:30):
we can just hold in the palm of our hands
is vastly superior. So I think that's one reason is
it's only a matter of time before someone catches some
such undeniable, you know, evidence on their smartphone that there's
no point in class lying things anymore. And another thing
is there are two factions. Actually we can see this
in the recent congressional hearings. We tease a lot. I
(07:52):
think there are warring factions within the US government. One
that wants that is for disclosure, one that wants to
prevent it for whatever reasons. I don't know. You know,
we can we can speculate what's.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Your personal belief because I know you spoke, you know,
you've been quoted saying that proof of UFOs would be
the single biggest.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Discovery in human history. In your prob.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Obviously you believe that they I'm guessing based on the
stuff I'm understanding that you have some believe in UFOs.
I mean, do you think, without question, all these documentaries,
all these things to talk about the government has Area
fifty one, is that what it was in Vegas?
Speaker 6 (08:29):
Right?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
All these different government sites where they have UFOs kept
and they have you know, bodies and things like that.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Do you believe all of that is possible or fact
in your mind?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Or I mean we're speculating, I know, but based on
your experience of being around this and science.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Well, as a scientist, belief is not enough. We try
not to use that word. What are what are the facts?
What's the proof, what's the evidence? So but also we
need to distinguish. I think UFOs undeniably exist in in
terms of misidentified you know, objects that people are misidentify.
It could be meteors, airplanes, anything, as you go. FO.
(09:06):
As long as you're unidentified, you don't know what it is. Yeah,
andally even but it sounds to me like you're taking
the next step and saying, oh, UFOs are alien spaceships. THO.
There are two steparate questions right now whose undeniably exists?
But the question is, the crazy question is could some
of them be spacecraft operated by non human intelligences? And
(09:29):
the way I see it right now is I think
that's it's more probable than ever before in my mind.
I don't know if you saw in the most recent
congressional hearing, there was you know, David Grush, that's not
famous whistleblower who basically claims we have ships and bodies
like in front of Congress. And of course you can
still be lying or making it up whatever, But I
(09:49):
find it remarkable that now the options we're down to
are either burgery in front of Congress. Yeah, more aliens, right,
you know, I mean like we're down to some it's
quite remarkab Well, now I have to stress so that
with with without hard evidence, it's still just hearsay. Anyone
can say anything, like, you know, I believe that that
Grush believes what he says, you know, but without like
(10:13):
you know, there was an article on the Onion even
that you know, David Grush rolls out alien body. You know,
I want to see we got to see the bodies
and the ships, just saying there there is absolutely nowhere
near enough. You know, that's not that that's not convincing,
that's not scientific evidence. If you know, trust me, bro,
that's not doesn't count.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Let's say that they actually disclosed and they and they
show us the body and the ship and all that.
I wonder if naysayers are still gonna believe, oh, that's
all fabricated, that.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Was all, you know, that's not.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Especially effects person movie, and actually recreate something that looks
like an alien, you know, Like, I don't know at
the end of the day, if anybody's.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Gonna really believe this is a fact, this is the DNA.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
Or whatever chromosomal code they have, you know, to believe
that this is for real.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Guys, they exist and we have it. It's right here
in front of us.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
No, you're absolutely right. I think there would just be
most a lot of people would say, no, it's fake,
you know, it's just it's just it's cgi, And so
it wouldn't even help at this point we're in in
this era, you know, fake news and all that. Even
if it was real and disclosed, there would still be
a huge number of people who still wouldn't acknowledge the truth.
(11:43):
And you'd also have people, so you have people who
say it's fake, and you'd have also another group of people,
I think, who wouldn't care at all. But I think
this is even more motivation to just get the truth
out there. If there is this significant you know, again,
we don't have the proof that there is a non
human intelligence or anything like that, but if there is
(12:03):
as as you know, as as Eric said I said earlier,
that would be the most important discovery in human history period,
you know, hands down. But I think that we are
at a stage in our society because we.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Got you know, special effects photoshop, you know, way better
than photoshop, you know, things now that people even presented
with the proof wouldn't accept it even if.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
That proof was real and not fabricated. And I think the.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Problem is there's still they say, is even now about
the moon land, you know things like that, People that
just believe it was all recreated react, it's all built up.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And I think because of that, I think it's always.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Going to be a he said, She said, conversation for everybody,
because I don't think that I personally, I don't think
there's ever going to be a day the government comes
out and says point blank, look we have a UFO
here it is.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
You can come see it at the National Museum or
you can go and even then, is it real? You
know what I mean? Is it? Is it just a model?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I don't know if there would because I have to
believe the government always keeps things, you know, close to
the vest, with.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Many many facets of our.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Our government, our world politics, everything right, Like, there's just
too many things the government holds close to the vest
for a number of reasons, and I think this is
one of the that's going to last for a long time.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I don't see it, but do you?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I do, because I think it's hard to put the
genie back on the bottle now because you don't just
have you know, you have David Grush, you have the pilots,
like like you've got David Fraver, You've got Ryan Graves,
and then you've got the people I work with, like
Gary Forese, who was on who was you know, on
one of the Navy ships involved in the twenty and
forty and it's encounter. You've got too many people who've
(13:44):
seen too many things. And also, if David Grush is
to be believed, and again, you know, we have to
have a healthy dose of skepticism. If he's right, you know,
and supposedly very advancing, you know, civilizations are capable of crashing.
It's only a matter of time before, you know, thetistics
where there's the crash and comes backyard and it ends
up on YouTube and someone you know, you know, chops
(14:06):
off an alien finger and puts it in their freezer,
and the proof can can't be captured and classify. The
US government's too late. It's in the hands of pavilions,
and it's too late. You can't get it all back.
And so I think it's only a matter of time
before something like that happens, where statistically to the point
where you can't keep a lid on things anymore because
(14:27):
the proof is just so in your face, because you
literally have you know, like a crash in someone's backyard
and they and the government can't clean it up fast enough,
and someone steals a piece and preserves it and gives
it the scientists and and it's it's too late. It
can't get classified.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I hope that happens.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I hope it doesn't just become you know, conversations about
another you know, social media influencer doing something to likes.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
You think crazy?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
What happened not too long ago.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
I think it was this kid saw something in the
backyard and there's actually footage of the image of the alien,
and the cops came in, and the cups didn't want
to get involved as everybody was freaking out.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Do you think that was all of fabrication?
Speaker 5 (15:10):
And when you see that footage on YouTube, do you
go as a specialist, as a scientist, oh my god,
there's something there.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah. No, one of one video a particular incident is
not good enough because in order to make sure that
something isn't fabricated. To reduce that chance, what we really
need is the same incident from two or three different
camera at a different angle. That's what we lack most
of the time, and that's what really really changes everything.
(15:39):
That's why. For example, one of the things I find
most convincing is there was in the mid nineteen nineties,
I don't remember the exact year, but there was a
total solar eclipse over Mexico City and everyone was looking
at the sky and people captured weird things like silver
flying saucer shaped things from different cameras, different angles. People
(16:00):
didn't even know each other or talk to each other
from across the city, and it's it's it's things like
that that I find more compelling than it's just one
dude in their backyard. That's really easy to fake, especially nowadays,
But when you have two or three angles of the
same object, that is very different, and that I think
is a much higher standard of evidence. And that's what
(16:23):
we need for something as speculative and exotic as this is.
We need, you know, very high standard of evidence.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
In all your years of science and the people you've
been around, what has been the story that you can
share that has blown your mind the most that you go,
you know, wow, that one I'm a.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Believer or that one? You know what? Has there been
one in specific?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yes, it's the same one that most people say, though
it's the twenty seventeen New York Times article where they
talked about the two thousand and four Nimits encounter and
the you know, this is the part of the three
Navy videos that that leaked, and then we're quote unquote
officially you know, declassified because even though you know they
look they're black and white and grainy's what's spectacular about
(17:12):
them is you can analyze the footage and see that
there are speeds in accelerations that no human craft should
be capable of. And in fact, my my colleague, professor
Kevin Kanuth, he actually has a peer reviewed scientific paper
that actually he published many years ago already showing that
the debunkers, you know, like Mick West, were wrong and
(17:33):
there were actual high velocities and accelerations that would rip
the wings out of a standard aircraft and would turn
a human body into jelly, you know, like there's not
possible velocities and accelerations. And I find that really, really,
I find that the most compelling because it's not hearsay,
it's not an eyewitness saying this is what I saw.
(17:54):
You actually have you know, camera footage, and this isn't
someone's backyard, this is mill Terry pilots who are trained
and know what a commercial aircraft look like. They know
what a Russian jet looks like. You know what a
Chinese jet looks like. It's not one of those things.
But most importantly is the data, just the raw footage
(18:14):
itself can be analyzed to show that these are not
normal aircraft. That's what convinced me to start looking at this, starting,
you know, around two thousand. It was twenty eighteen nineteen.
I mean the article was seventeen. But I got convinced
by my friend Heaven, who's the professor here also, to
really start taking it seriously.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
I'm almost military pilots, and just like regular commercial airline pilots.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Are they schooled?
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Is there a code that they know if somehow you
encounter on an identified thing like a UFO, are they
ordered to just continue their path like nothing? Are they
ordered to stay hang around to see if they can
actually clarify and get images of what that is like.
As a pilot, what do you do you see something
(19:00):
like that right in front of you?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
So this was covered in the recent congressional hearings. Actually,
right now, there is no consistent set of guidelines in
terms of like what you should do and when you
should report. And so it's a mess right now. And
it's different for commercial versus military pilots. So a lot
of commercial airline pilots are afraid to say anything because
they are afraid people will laugh at them, you know.
(19:24):
And and so you know, back then, you know, at
the lounge at the airport, they'll make you you know,
they'll have like they like, flying saucer cartoons and drawings
and and then and so I think there's still a
lot of stigma and a lot of fear. So I
think most of the time people just just pretend it's
not happening and just keep going, you know, keep doing
what they're doing with their with their flight path. And
(19:45):
that's really dangerous because what if sometimes you know, it
has nothing to do with non human craft, what if
it is you know, rock in or Chinese, you know,
like the spy balloon incident. So if we don't allow
people to report, then there will be human ast that
it's from a foreign power that gets unreported. And that's
even I think more dangerous than alien you know, because
(20:07):
aliens might be you know, we don't know if they're
good guys, bad guys, if they exist but you know,
if we have a foreign adversary that's slipping in like
the Chinese Fi balloon incident, that proves that it's really
dangerous to tell people not to report, or to have
a culture where people can't report because they're free.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Now, have you yourself ever had any sighting of any kind?
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Because my wife thinks.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
She has, my mom thinks she has, her dad thinks
she has. Have you ever experienced anything or anybody very
close to you that has experienced something.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
As a child, I didn't see something, but it turned
out to be a satellite in retrospect, so I don't.
I haven't had anything I can really count as unidentified
that I've actually seen. On when I was in the
UFO documentary A Tearing the Sky by Carolyn Corey, though
we did catch something, but I was never like there live.
It was like later on, you know, review the footage
(21:07):
and stuff. But so I haven't seen something like directly
directly myself that I couldn't eventually explain easily. So I
personally have not witnessed anything with my own two eyeballs.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Can I tell you something?
Speaker 5 (21:32):
And I I've mentioned this before the podcast and everic
things that I'm probably crazy. But I was in my
bedroom in Los Angeles, California, and I'm looking out the
big glass door and I see this thing fly as
so many It was an airplane stop completely stop, completely,
didn't move, and then went. I went backwards and it
disappeared within two seconds, and I go.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
I was like, and I told him I just saw
this thing. And I was like, I'm crazy.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
There's no way I was. I saw it. I saw it.
And then I was waiting for the next day. I'm
looking for the news, the papers, because I assumed I'm
not the only one.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Something is gonna the news, Katie La news, somebody's gonna say.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Something about a sighting in Studio City, California or whatever
in California, and nothing was ever told.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
So to this day, I just go, did I see that?
Am I crazy? But I swear to you, I think.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
I saw it.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
It's the weirdest things.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
We don't have craft that have the ability to stop midair.
We we do to it. We do to a point
with things like with with drones, but it's not that
easy and it's not like they can you know, they
cannot step off at some of the speeds of some
of some encounters reported like yours.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
I swear to you I saw that, and have you
do you believe or do you know of any real
documentation of abductions, Like people that actually they're taken and
they come back to Earth and they say, I think
I've been explored, I have a scar, I don't know
where it came from, and they truly believe that they
(23:06):
left this realm and when somewhere else for research purposes
and come back to Earth.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Do you believe in that?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Again, I like to stay away from we have the
fact establish. I think it's worth studying, but I'm very
skeptical of these stories. I would like to study this
and get to the bottom of it, but it's very
tricky because the way the only way I can think
of trying of trying to solve that mystery, would you know,
be very tricky in terms of privacy issues and things
(23:40):
like that. But a lot of people claim to be
repeat abductees. So the way I would want to solve
this mystery, in my opinion, once and for all, is
cameras in the bedrooms, right, prove it. Let's get the proof.
Even if the camera breaks and goes fuddy, that's proof itself.
Right of something here happening. So I again, we cannot
go by people's stories. I've never seen any physical evidence,
(24:02):
like people claim, you know, they have implants in them,
But then where are those implants? Can we test them?
Can we have scientists test the actual metal people claim
I've been put in their body. There's been no scientific
has done. So I would love to see the hard
evidence of that, of something happening. I said, I'm open
to the possibility, but I'm much more skeptical of the
(24:23):
abduction angle than the then you know, photos and videos,
things in the sky, because with the abduction stuff, you know,
again it's hearsay and people can just make stuff up.
But when you have evidence from sensors, especially from multiple
cameras or different kinds of sensors, I mean, there's still
sensor ghosts and artifacts, but that's much harder to fake
(24:48):
than to just than to just tell a story. So
I'm definitely more skeptical of the whole abduction abduction angle.
I am more I am. I am open to it,
but I just wish someone would think of something, you know,
as Michael Kaka says, this steal something from the Champrove. It,
you know, like prove it, like just steal something, and
(25:09):
like then the then the answer is, oh, of course
aliens won't let you steal something. Yeah, that's a cop out.
So like I just let's get get some hard evidence
of something like a piece of technology that we can
defend it and we say it's not human. There's just
I worry that there's so many. There's literally millions of
these abductions. There's millions, not thousands, I think, but millions
(25:30):
of people claims doesn't.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Happen, So not even one in a million.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Chances of someone catching something, you know, like some physical
piece of evidence. I find that absolutely remarkable because even
if there's some civilization that's more advanced than humans, I'm
sure there's still flesh and blood, right, they're still made
of of salves or something similar. There's still not infallible
and can still make a mistake. And really one in
(25:55):
a million, like one person doesn't get away with sometimes
piece of evidence. So yeah, I'm very skeptical of the
whole abduction and contact teath phenomenon because I feel like
it's not as solid as having photos and videos and
those types of things.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
What's really scary to me is to think that you know,
as advance as we are as human beings, you know,
to know that there's another creature that exists that is
much more advanced than us, that they're able to get
to us, but we haven't been able to go to
where they come from.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
That's what's really scary.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
It's entirely possible, I said, I just think we don't
have the evidence, but it's entirely possible. There are beings
way way more advanced than humans that I wouldn't say
is not only possible, that's almost certain, certainly probable. The
question is, is what are the odds that they can traverse
(26:50):
large interstellar distances or whatever the equivalent of, you know,
interdimension or whatever other thing and come to Earth. That
is a completely separate question. I think that's in my mind.
There's no question there are civilizations out there, and on average,
half of them are less advanced than us, you know,
case people and things like that on countless planets, and
(27:10):
half of them are more advanced than us. Just statistically,
we should assume that without evidence of the contrary, and
that humanity is somewhere in the middle of some sort
of you know, near the average, is I think a
good starting assumption to me.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, that's always my believe. The universe is far too fast.
I don't matter how impossible. We're the only love and
planet with civilization on it. Just that feels impossible. So
this is fascinating. I love your passion for all of this.
I just I'm going to go back to just a step.
At what point did you decide.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
In your childhood.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I know you're a Star Trek fan, there are producer
total list, and you got ury into science that way,
I'm sure, But to.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Be a physicist, to study all the things you study.
I was a psycho biology major when I.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Was in college to want to be a doctor, and
I just remember going through calculus based physics and all
these things are going, Oh my god, this is so difficult.
I mean, the level of science knowledge you have. What
what was the turning point for you? And what age
did you decide this is the path.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I want to go down.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Oh, I know, four or five? Very lumber Yeah. Now,
I've always knew when I wanted to be a scientist.
Really yeah, I've never changed my mind. I've never wavered
between elementary school, high school, college, Like, never I would
change my mind about what type of science yeah, I never.
I always knew from at least kindergarten, I said that
(28:33):
that was going to be a science.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Really and then being a physicist, which to me is
one of the most difficult It's just one of the
most most difficult things to understand and wrap your head around.
That happened later as you went into college and you
started to specialize and go into what you're going to
do with science.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Well, I pretty much always knew it was going to
be physical astronomy. And the thing about physics is that
I felt like with physics I could do or learn anything.
Then this is going to like anger all of your
listeners who are like chemistry biologists, But it's like the
XKCD comic. I like to think of chemistry and apply
physics and biologies, apply chemistry and psychology, applied biology. That
(29:09):
doesn't mean physics is like the bottom foundation, because physics
is applied math. There's math is the foundation of everything.
So I'm not saying that this is the one best thing.
Actually no, I'm not. Actually the mathematicians get to say that.
But so I feel like with physics you can sort
of be a little bit of jack of all trades
because you want to do some you know, chemistry, and
then there's some condensed matter of physics material science. When
(29:31):
with the biology is biophysics. You know, you want to
do astronomy as astrophysics, So I feel like you can
you can dabble a bit without becoming the master of
that field, because if you did, you would be chemist
and biologists. But I feel like there's a lot of
inter there's a lot of interdisciplinary you know, intersections that
that that happened or really within physics.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Well that's great, Matthew.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Thank you so much for hanging with us and answering
our questions. Fascinating to me, this is something I've always
wanted to dive into. More so, we really appreciate your time, Roz.
Is there anything else you wanted to add?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
No, I'm good.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I appreciate your time, Mattie. This is fascinating.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
We're obsessed with the topic and to be able to
pick your brain somebody is so incredibly smart and it's
pretty it's pretty awesome. And to know that you believe that, yes,
it exists, you just have to be undeniable.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
But that makes me very happy.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Well, thank you, Matthew, all the best.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Thank you for inviting me, bye, Well, there you have it.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
That was really interesting.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
I'm so glad that at least he said, yeah, it's
I have no doubt that it exists. We just have
to see concrete, flesh proof. But somebody at some point
is going to be able to provide that because there's
no way you know it. Probably it exists, but whoever
has it in the government, it is so classified that
they don't want to release it because I truly believe
(30:56):
the government all governments are going to think that it's
going to be.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Massive hysteria and we don't know as humans.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
How are we going to deal when we know for
a fact there's a little etams on home right in
front of you.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Well, because I feel like that's gonna and I agree
with it, it's going to be probably sooner than later
because of the way our technology is now that we
will probably come to some proof out there that's undeniable
at some point. But I just don't know how long,
because I feel like a lot of that proof might
exist already that that government just are never going to
share it. Even if you had some kind of let's say,
(31:32):
a spacecraft land in the backyard, not you know, tomorrow night,
you know what I mean, and we find it.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
I think what's gonna happen, Eric, is that it's going
to be again. I'm going to use the word again
on deniable. I think at some point, because there have
been some crashes, clearly some people have a lot of
people have reported that, you know, even the government says
that they have stuff because of crashes. I think at
some point there's going to be a crash in the
middle of Times Square, in the middle of a place
(31:56):
that it is so evident because more thousands, hundreds, it
needs to be there, and that people will see it
that the government has absolutely no excuse anymore because it's
right all over the news and it's running well.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
It would have to be that, just like a Roswell
type thing. But back then there was no social media,
there were no phones like you kepture.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Video would have to be something in a place heavily populated,
and that's what.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You get somebody's yard, someone's house, someone's whatever. Again, I
think it's going to be shut down, you know, closed up.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
It has to be a public place, it has to
be a public place.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Well, until then, I will just hold on to the
fact that you've seen a light zip around.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I saw, I saw one. I'm going to go to
my grave saying that I saw that night.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
A gummy.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
I don't like them.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
No party, you didn't have them that night. When you
saies like that.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
I hate him.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
You know that.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
No, I was perfectly clear.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
All right, Well we'll see until next time. Enjoy Miami
and be it away from home. Sorry, guys, well.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
You know nobody can see that.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
This sound is gonna be funky most likely, but I'm
in Miami in Sata Hotel room.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
It's not the podcast room.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
So I apologize for the noises and the lack of
good quality audio.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Next week will be better.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Love you, I love you. Thanks for listening. Don't forget
to write us a review and tell us what you think.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
If you want to follow us on Instagram, check us
out at e said Ajab or at email Eric and
Ross at iHeartRadio dot com. He said, Ajab is part
of iHeartRadio's Mike would do that podcast network.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
N
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Roselyn Sanchez
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