September 25, 2023 • 40 mins
Ros and Eric take a crash course on the way social media really works thanks to Instagram Growth Coach Brock Johnson.
Posts, Stories, and Reels... which one is right for you? How to grow your followers? What kinds of videos go viral, and what does "engagement" really mean? Consider this your social media cheat sheet because Brock explains everything so clearly- you can really up your Insta-game!!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is he said, A yeah, the ho with Eric
Winter and Rosalind Santez.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello, welcome back, thank you, welcome to you, and welcome
he said, aged the whole listeners to me.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah, welcome to you.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
That's new. She's a little rusty everybody. She's you know,
been traveling, so she's a little off. I'm a mess
off kilter. Yes, we have a great guest today, because
you know, I have this love hate relationship with social media.
I I kind of hate it, but I kind of
know we have to do it. I love it, and
I don't love it like you love it, but I
(00:40):
understand how important it is. And I'm actually very intrigued
to discuss more and learn more about social media from
an Instagram growth coach Brock Johnson, who I think you
follow or you're aware of. Yes, this is gonna be exciting.
He teaches creators and entrepreneurs how to gain followers, and
(01:01):
he just knows the ins and outs to everything social media.
So this is going to be educational.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
He's an Instagram growth coach.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That's what I said.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh you just said that.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I just said that. Where are you at? I told you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
He got married to September seventeen.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I'll talk to him about it money.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
He's from southern California, like you.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
There, you have it. Hey, Brock, Hey, how's it going.
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Good good morning.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Some good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
We're just doing a little intro for you. And I
was saying in the intro that you know this, You're
You're the perfect person to have on the show right now.
I have sort of a love hate with social media.
I know, we you know, I have to do it
in my profession. It feels tedious. I get overwhelmed. My
wife has more of a love love with social media.
She's all about it all the time. And you're an
(01:47):
expert in this space. I mean, you've built a business
around it, so we we can't wait to sort of
dive into all that and understand where your passion came
from with social media and how you learn the ins
and outs so well.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Totally yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Well, I'm excited to be on the show, and I
totally get both sides of that coin. I totally understand
the love love and the love hate relationship with it.
I've experienced both. I think I experienced both on a
daily basis, so I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You do a lot of content, though so how do
you manage to you? I'm assuming it is a full
time job, right because I follow you. I've been following
you for a while, and you put out a lot
of like little instructions. I don't know how you call them,
like these little teasers, tutorials, little tutorials.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You do that on a daily basis?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
I would say, like, one of my goals on my
social media is that it's not just education. Excuse me,
it's not just entertainment, but it's also education. I want
people to be able to learn from my posts and
get that real value that they can apply to their
own circumstances and their own accounts. But I would say
at least one post per day of mine has some
sort of education value to it.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Good.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
And you come from a family of business minded people,
that's what you started. You went to college to study business?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Absolutely not so I Actually I went to college to
play college football. Really, I was raised in a very
entrepreneurial family. So I was born and raised with a
mom and dad who both owned and operated businesses together.
But sitting around the dinner table every night, we weren't
talking about business and entrepreneurship. We were talking about football
(03:28):
because my dad also played professionally, so did my uncle.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
My grandpa is a.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Prolific high school football coach, and so growing up I
was a football guy. I had little businesses growing up,
and I was into that sort of thing, but really
football was my passion, and I went to college to
play football, so I got a football scholarship. And it
was actually because I was a football player that I
was more or less forced kind of to start a business,
(03:55):
because at least at that time, when I was starting
out in college, maybe eight years or so ago, student
athletes couldn't get paid for their name, image and likeness
like they can now.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Now.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
They can get brand deals, they can do sponsorships, but
back when I was in college, I was like just
at the.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Cuff where we couldn't quite do that.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
So really I could either start my own business or
I could get a typical traditional job, But because I
was a student athlete, I didn't have the time to
get a normal job, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So that's really.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
What's forced me basically into starting my own business. And
so I launched my first real business when I was
about nineteen years old as a freshman in college, and
really my college experience was so that I could play football,
so that I could network and meet all these people
and have all these great connections. But most of my
business knowledge was acquired either growing up through my parents
(04:46):
or through all of the learning and trial and error
and everything I went through.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
While I was actually in college.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
When you say real business, what do you mean by
real business?
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Like jumping into that, well, I mean growing up, I
had a bunch of things that, like I call businesses.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I had, Like I had my own domain name when I.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Was like twelve years old, and I started this little
business where I would charge like my classmates to tie
their shoes with like some cool patterns and like that
made money. But I wouldn't call that a real business.
I was also I was a distributor for a company
at one point. I like did reselling at one point,
so like little things to make money.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
But you know what you said, Oh my god, I'm
such a dummy. I thought you said real like not
real life. It's a real life. I thought you mean
like your own making real That's part of the conversation.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
I'm so confused.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I totally get Defender Brock.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
She just completely went she was like huh. I was like,
what I thought mean like making it reel like he
was like real business with reels also on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, now that's the real.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So now I get it.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Is it truly sort of you started with like a
Snapchat sort of foundation, is how you were building your brand?
And then exactly so how did you with the inception
of Snapchat? And everything was so quick? I didn't do Snapchat,
but I know it was like boom, like three second
clips and it's gone. What was the business you could
build there? I'm just curious, Like, within three seconds, it
was just you were putting down, putting out really fun
(06:19):
content those three seconds, and then it just grabs followers
and and so forth and so on.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
So actually the original ria l the real business that
I said when I was nineteen was helping moms keep
their teens safe on Snapchat, because back in twenty fifteen
twenty sixteen, everyone was like really scared, and I should
say all the parents were really scared of Snapchat. What's
going on, disappearing messages, what's going on on the platform.
And so my business, the first real business that I had,
(06:47):
was basically explaining to parents, here's what's going on on Snapchat,
here's what's actually you know how to use the app,
and here's what your kids are doing on the app.
Here's how you can keep them safe. And that business
very quickly transitioned into how do you use Snapchat for marketing?
Because essentially I had now taught thousands of parents who
(07:07):
were also small business owners and they were in network marketing,
and they had their own businesses and they now knew
how to use Snapchat, and I had built my business
on Snapchat, so they wanted to know how to do
the same. And really, if you think back to this
time of twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen, that era, stories weren't
on Instagram yet. Instagram didn't have Instagram Stories. Snapchat was
(07:28):
the creator of the whole story's idea. Now every platform
has stories, but Snapchat started that, and that was really
how you grew your following. Is you basically created almost
like a daily vlog. So the clips, I think they
could have been originally up to fifteen seconds, and then
they expanded them to actually be up to sixty seconds,
and you just kind of filmed the daily vlog very
documentary style, like here's what I'm doing in my life,
(07:50):
Here's what I'm working on, and that's kind of how
you built your following on Snapchat. And then very quickly
after that, Instagram was like, oh, this is hot, this
is working, and so Instagram copied the idea and created
Instagram stories, and I understanding me, they.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Wanted to buy super Chat, right they wanted to buy Snapchat. Snapchat,
we wanted to buy. Then they said, well, we're bigger
and stronger, We'll just do it for a day and
we'll create stories that land for a day. And then
they passed on Snapchat and Instagram kept growing, and Snapchat
is kind of follow up.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
What is more relevant right now? Snapshot or Instagram?
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Instagram definitely instagrama Snapchat. From most research, Snapchat really isn't
being used all that much for marketing anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
There are a few niche cases.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
For the most part, the primary demographic of Snapchat is
much younger, and those people who are using Snapchat are
using it primarily for messaging rather than consuming content.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
What I love about your mission is that it's not
just and like, I have no I have no problem
with influencers and you know, someone wants to do a
bunch of swimsuit shots whatever they want to do to
bring followings. You know, people do their own business, you know,
I mean they created a job with that, but you
actually are out there educating people on how to build business,
whether it's online or just in general. It's it's impressive
(09:02):
in that regard, especially with Snapchat that that was a
real fear parents worrying about what their kids are seeing.
How fast you know, people could send things they disappear.
This is very hard to monitor and track. So that's
I mean, that's kudos for building up a breaking like that.
And now in the ig as as a coach, so
you're you're explaining that you know, what is explain to us?
(09:25):
I want to know what's more effective the reels, the
posts or the stories, like what actually draws more before we.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
We You answered that, how do you become like you
become an expert at Instagram? Like how do you become
an expert on Instagram or like Twitter, like x now
or TikTok?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Do you have to study? Like do you spend hours of.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Like learning about algorithms and analytics and just figure it
out the mind within Instagram?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (09:55):
And I think that there's you know the old adage
of the ten thousand hour rule, and that's how you
become a great basketball player. That's how you become a
great piano player. That's how you become a great Instagram
coach as well. And so even though I blew up
on Instagram in twenty twenty one, that's when I really
started to skyrocket my following and get some sort of
notoriety on Instagram. I had been an Instagram coach for
(10:17):
probably four years before that, and it's doing exactly what
you just said. It's studying the algorithms. It's working with
people on a one on one basis to figure out
what's actually working for them, what doesn't work for them,
What can I tell them that's going to help them
get the results that they want. I actually ended up
working with over five hundred people over the first couple
of years of my business, and so I just it
(10:38):
was so much learning, so much trial and error. I
had the knowledge from Snapchat of how stories work, so
I already had a good idea of how Instagram stories
would work, but the Instagram feed was a totally new
beast for me. And using it for business and using
it to grow a following and convert those followers into customers,
that was totally new, and so it was really three
or four years of practice, and then my account started
(11:01):
to really blow up and take off.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And then as that's happened, I've gotten.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Some really cool opportunities to actually like work with meta,
work with Instagram, get to actually like have conversations with
their staff, to really get like directly from the horse's mouth,
what's going on here, Like, how does the algorithm work?
What is actually being favored on the platform?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So what does really engage followers more? Is it the stories?
Is it the post? Is it the reals? What is
for Instagram itself? Or I'm sure it's a combination thereof,
But what is the in your mind the number one?
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Yeah, so there's really two distinctions here. If your goal
is growth, if that is your primary objective gaining new followers,
then it's feed posts. It's absolutely not stories. If you
want to grow, Stories are a waste of time because stories,
they're only shown to your existing followers. So if your
existing followers are the only one seeing them, then they
already follow you. They can't follow you a second time, right,
(11:54):
there's no one new discovering your stories. Stories have a
huge purpose. Stories are very important. Stories are very important
for selling, for building relationships, for building trust, for allowing
your followers.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
To get to know you.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
But if you need to gain followers, if you just
need attention on your brand or your business, it's all
about the feed posts. And within feed posts, there's kind
of the two big categories. There's photos, which is really photos,
and carousels, which are like the slides show style posts.
So that's one kind, and then the other kind of
post is reels. Obviously, reels was invented in the summer
(12:27):
of twenty twenty I believe it was, or maybe yeah,
twenty to twenty, so it's been around for a few
years now. And initially reels were hot. It didn't matter
what you posted on reels. They were going to do great.
They were going to reach a ton of people. You
were going to grow your following if you were posting reels.
I mean, if at the beginning of twenty twenty one
you posted anything on reels, it was going to do well.
(12:48):
But now three years later, there's a lot more competition.
Our level of expectations for what makes like a good
reel that has definitely increased. And then probably the biggest
factor of all is directly from the CEO of Instagram.
He posted This was actually last summer he posted this
and he said, he said, you know, I think we
went too far with reels, and we started making the
(13:09):
entire Instagram platform dominated by reels. So we're going to
draw that back and we're going to balance out the
reach between reels and non reels. So reels and photos
slash carousels are now getting an equal distribution within the algorithm.
So for a lot of people, they're actually experiencing better
results with photos with carousels with non reels right now
(13:31):
than they are with just reels. But there isn't necessarily
whereas you know, two years ago, I might have told
you that reels were the best. Now that they're really balanced,
It really depends on you, your audience, what kind of
content you're making. It's not necessarily like reels are one
hundred percent better or vice versa.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Do you know what draws I've always wondered this when
you go whether it's a carousel or what's a real
and it says it's been viewed X number of times? Right,
I know there are plenty of reels that I happen
to like at your scroll and you see it, and
I don't really stay and watch it is there a
timeframe in which it counts as being viewed.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Basically, once the video begins playing, that counts as a view.
And it's kind of a confusing distinction. But Instagram doesn't.
What they show us the little triangle and we all
call it views, it's actually plays. And so we think like, oh,
I got one hundred thousand views. Actually you got one
hundred thousand plays. And so basically that just means the
(14:36):
video began playing one hundred thousand different times. So basically,
within basically the millisecond that the video begins, it counts.
There's no like, you know, it has to reach three
seconds for it to count as a view. As soon
as it starts playing, it counts.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Can you explain to me, because this is what's crazy,
and that this is why social media confuses me. Like
I have two point two million followers and change right
on Instagram and then I have one post that okay,
so two point two So I'm thinking, I'm I did
this little real that is going to be very effective, right,
(15:10):
so out of two point two, at least one point
one should see it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And then when you look, only.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Eighty five thousand, what about all the other millions? Does
it mean that nobody else saw it? Like, why is
the reach so minimal compared to your followers.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Yeah, so there's so many factors here. First of all,
what you're experiencing is totally normal. I was actually just
working with a creator yesterday who has about fifteen million followers,
and of those fifteen million, only three hundred thousand or
what we would call engaged followers. So Hi, Basically, there's
there's so many factors here. So you have two point
two million followers. I'm guessing you didn't gain those two
(15:52):
point two million followers in the last week. It's probably
been over the course of a few years, right, yesh. So,
so first of all, think about how many there's at
least a small percentage of those two point two million
who they don't use Instagram anymore. Their account got hacked,
they deleted that account. Maybe they have two accounts and
they follow you on both, but they only really use
one account. Maybe that person like they passed away. I mean,
(16:15):
there's a certain amount of people who just they're not
on Instagram anymore. So that's a small chunk. Plus, there's
more content being posted now than ever before, right, there's
more people posting, so there's more competition and the amount
of time that we're spending on our phones. Despite what
the headlines may say, it's not exponentially increasing. It's not
crazy skyrocketing. We're using Instagram pretty much the same amount
(16:40):
in twenty twenty three as we were in twenty twenty
two and twenty twenty one, So the demand is equal,
but the supply has just crazily increased. Everyone's posting reels.
Right to go back to what I was talking about
a minute ago. In twenty twenty one, hardly anyone was
posting a reel. Now everyone including my Flip and Grandma
is posting reel.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So that's just ail cantage though they all get it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So if I have two point two this is what
I'm confused because they say only ten percent of your
followers will get this.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I don't think they. I mean, you know the answer
better than me, Brock, but I always it's the algorithm
has changed on Instagram in the past year or so, Like,
I don't see half of the people I follow. I
used to see a lot more content. Now I see
maybe let's say it's twenty thirty people in the day
and then all of a sudden, people I don't follow
start popping up as suggestions.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, the feature is definitely one of those factors as well.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
So not only is there increased competition, yet the demand
is the same. There's also more recommendations in the feed.
So as I'm just going through my home feed, I'm
not just seeing the couple hundred people who I follow,
I'm also seeing some posts that Instagram is recommending to me.
I'm also seeing some advertisements that have paid to be
on my feed. So basically, there's just so much competition.
(17:52):
There's so many other posts to see that it's impossible.
Quite literally, it's impossible for the average user to see
every every single post made from the people they follow
in a day.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And they get it. Though they get it, I would say,
do they get it?
Speaker 5 (18:07):
It's kind of like it's kind of like does the
email get delivered to your inbox? Yes, but there's some
emails that you never open, some emails that go right
to junk exactly that the automatically archived and filtered out
as spam. There's some emails that you open and you're
just like, I don't need it, and you just scroll
right past it. So the exact number isn't necessarily ten percent.
(18:28):
That's kind of the general thing that people will say
is like, it gets pushed to ten percent of your followers.
That's not one hundred percent accurate, but that's a good
way to think about it, is it gets pushed to
your post when you share, it gets shown to a
small percentage of your followers. If that small percentage does well, Like,
if that small percentage of people they all like it,
they're all commenting, they're all saving, they're sharing it with
(18:50):
their friends, they're really spending time with your post and
engaging with it, then the algorithm basically says, this is
a good post, the people are into it, they like it,
and then it will show it to more people. And
then basically it starts over so that next round of
people they basically have a fresh chance. Do they engage,
do they like it? And if they all like it,
then it gets shown to more people. And that's basically
how a post can continue to grow, grow, grow. But
(19:12):
one really interesting factor in all of this is let's
say that initial group, that first ten percent, they all
like it, they all engage, they all comment, But then
that second group, consistently they don't really like it for
whatever reason. Maybe they spent time watching it, but they
just didn't comment, they didn't like the posts, they didn't
actually engage in any way. Well, then over time the
(19:34):
algorithm learns, maybe we shouldn't show her posts to this
group because they're not really that interested in it. And
so that's how over time your reach can kind of
consistently diminish, and then it's like a self fulfilling prophecy, right,
it feeds into itself. Now you're reaching less people, so
you're going to be getting less engagement, which means you're
going to be reaching even less people, and then you're
(19:55):
just kind of on that downhill spiral.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
That's what I've noticed too, just in my own feed.
It's like if I have people you know it's close
friend of ours pretty much almost always because they're a
close friend, like their stuff, I get more of their
content all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Exactly, And as soon as I stop.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Engaging or liking someone's stuff, I just get less of
their content. I've noticed that they're just not in my
feed anymore. And if I don't feel like liking many
people at all, like you said, the feed just starts
to become less and less and less.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What is algorithm for people like me that I use
the word all the time, but I don't know what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, yeah, the algorithm.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
We overcomplicate it especially and I'm saying we as in
like us Instagram coaches, we over complicate it. The algorithm
is simply, it's a math equation that runs Instagram, and
its job is to determine what do people want to see?
Do people want to see this post? Do want people
want to engage with this real? Do people want to
watch this story?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
There are multiple there's a story's algorithm, there's a feed algorithm,
there's an explore page algorithm, because people engage with those
things differently. But ultimately it's just a math equation that's
looking at how many likes did you.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Get in what time?
Speaker 5 (21:03):
How many comments did you get, how long are the comments?
How much time are people spending watching your content? It's
taking into all of taking into account all of these
different factors. In fact, there is one leaked report that
apparently it's looking at like fifty thousand different variables on
your post, and basically its job is to just say
is this post good or not? Is this post something
(21:24):
that people want to see or not.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I just thought about something great and hopefully you'll defend
me and this works out in my favor. This could
very well backfire. We've talked about it on the podcast,
because she will you know the search page, right, it's
random things, and I know some of those things. I
tried to explain to her. Some of those things are
things you engage with. But also my understanding is per
(21:47):
the algorithm, if you have friends that send you content
and you click on it because they sent you something,
or who they follow, for example, their followers and things
that they I'm on this one giant chain with a
bunch of people I don't even really know, and I
got added to this chain, like it's so much stuff.
I mean you, it couldn't be more.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
It's not an Instagram chain.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
It's a text to Instagram to DM chain of like
thirty people and they send all these random videos from it.
Couldn't be more opposite, right, And so that affects the
search in my opinion. She was like, that's nonsense. There's
a girl the bikini that I.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Said, wow, Brock Brock, Okay, if I go to my
listen to me.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
If you go to my search stuff right, there's everything,
and there's different podcasts.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
There is a lot of things about makeup or.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Fashion or like spirituality, like things that I that I
follow right his search Right, If I go to the
little search thing, it's all bikinis, and.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm like, who the heck are.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
You searching a lot of women that this is a joke.
There's a lot of sports that come up. There's bodybuilding
that comes up.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean, he's blaming everybody, but.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
He's there's attacking animals on far East. There's like random things, right,
that just come up. And I'm trying to explain to
her it's not just like I don't follow those people,
and it's not that I'm searching you're searching. No, it
can literally be my friends sending something or being on
a chain like that, right or wrong? Bronx.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
So now I know I'm here, I know what you
guys invited me on.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Please tell me I'm right.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Bruh, No, So you're not so unfortunately you are corrector
maybe I should, says Rock And actually, this is a
great point. This is a great segue into this topic.
And this is really the distinction between the Instagram algorithm
and the TikTok algorithm. So on Instagram, they have what's
(23:38):
called a social based algorithm. They are they are definitely
looking out, what are you searching for, what are you
commenting on, what are you following and engaging? But Instagram,
because of its roots in Facebook, because of its you know,
early days, being created by by Facebook, it very much
cares about your social network. It cares about what are
(23:58):
your friends into, what are your friend watching, what are
your friends sending you?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Who do you follow?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Like I have my wife, for example, so I'm always
interacting with her, We're always sending each other things. So
the out my algorithm very much is looking at what
is she into, what is she looking at, what is
she searching for? Maybe we should show those things to
Brock as well. That's very true because Instagram has a
social algorithm. So absolutely you could very well be seeing
(24:24):
things on your Explore page because they're sent at a
massive amount, like in some random group chat that you're
a part of. TikTok, on the other hand, has what's
called a purely content driven algorithm. TikTok doesn't really care
what your friends are watching. TikTok doesn't really care what's
being sent to you. TikTok cares pretty much above all
(24:44):
else what are you watching? What are you engaging with?
So if you really want to get a clue as
to what people are into, scroll through their TikTok feed
and then you'll start to see, Okay, here's the kinds
of videos that they're watching and that they're engaging with.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Because that's really all that TikTok cares about.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
And not to go too much on a tangent, but
that's why a lot of people really prefer the TikTok
for you page and really say that the TikTok feed
is more enjoyable to scroll through because it's all about you.
It's all about what if you liked, what have you
engaged with? Not necessarily what have your friends been into
in the last couple of.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Weeks later Brook, thank you for doing oh my god
whatever whatever.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Anyway, So I.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Have a question, do you, like, do you coach people
regarding TikTok as well or just Instagram?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So I don't coach on TikTok. I.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Actually I blew up on TikTok in like twenty nineteen,
so before everyone got on TikTok, I got over there
and I was like I'm just going to make some videos,
but it's kind of a double edged sword. Catch twenty
two is I blew up for the wrong reasons, not
like anything bad. I blew up because I was dancing,
and I was in my college football locker room dancing
and I had like my pads on, and so people
(25:54):
thought that was really funny. And I love to dance.
I love to be silly and goofy, and that's definitely
a part of.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Who I am. But that's not my business. That's not
what I teach people, and that's not what I do.
So I blew up.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
In the early days of TikTok, I got like three
hundred thousand followers in like a week because of some
dancing videos. But a year later, I had graduated not
playing college football. It'd be very weird if I just
walked into the locker room and started filming myself dancing, right,
And so now I have three hundred thousand followers who
they follow me, but I can't give them what they
ask for. I can't deliver on what they followed me
(26:28):
for in the first place, and that's not my business, right,
I'm not going to teach them dance lessons. I'm not
going to do paid partnerships with dance studios.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Anything like that.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
So actually, I've recently restarted on TikTok and started over
from zero and kind of made the decision to ultimately
let that account with three hundred thousand followers let it
go because I know that those three hundred thousand followers
they're not ideal for me. They're not my ideal customer,
they're not my ideal avatar, they're not within my niche.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And so even though it might.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Look really cool to be like, I have three hundred
thousand followers, it's worthless if they're not following me for
the right reasons.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
How do you explain this is about TikTok a post
having eight point two million and then a week later
you do another post and it gets twelve thousand.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
It goes back to what I was talking about about
that content driven algorithm. So on Instagram, because it's such
a social driven algorithm, Instagram says, oh, well, hey, you
liked this post from this creator a week ago, and
you follow this person, so we're going to make sure
that you see their new post. But on TikTok, they
don't really care that you liked this person's post a
week ago, or that you follow this person. They just
(27:46):
care do you like this kind of content? Do you
enjoy this post? And so if you have a post
that gets eight million views on TikTok, the likelihood that
someone sees your next post doesn't necessarily increase all that
much less. It's the exact same kind of content and
the exact same quality of content.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
So to go viral, that's I guess. On TikTok, going
viral is very different than going viral on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Different, very much viral.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
And that's why so many people go viral on TikTok
is because it's just about the content, right, So it
doesn't matter if you have three hundred thousand or if
you have three hundred followers. If you make content that
the people are into, they're going to see it.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Got it? So here's my question, and I don't want
to beat optunity questions. I apologize. How do we grow?
Because I don't want to be buying followers, right, I
know that's a big thing. People buy followers. I you know,
in our business, followers definitely reflect on jobs that we
are going to get and we have good you know,
good following a good, you know foundation. But if I
(28:48):
want to grow followers more, and I'm terrible, I don't
post regularly. I'm like, I start, I post when I
feel guilty and like, oh, I need to post something
I haven't posted in a week like that. My last
post is a week ago, I think, and I know
that's part of the problem. Yeah, what is is that?
The main problem is if I just post more frequently,
you know, reasonable content. And I also don't post a
(29:08):
lot of myself and which is weird, Like I don't
just do selfies and talk to it. I don't do
that a lot. I might be a photo of me
with the kids or me out doing it, or that
it's something else. Are those two problems that I have?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Those are definitely two problems.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
And I would say that consistency is definitely a part
of it, but I wouldn't say it's the whole thing.
It might not even necessarily be the biggest problem.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Really.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Step one for growing on Instagram is the same as
step one for growing a podcast, the same as step
one for growing on YouTube, on TikTok, wherever. And that's
to really identify who is your target market, who is
your niche, who is your ideal follower and like all
the way down, get nitty gritty with all of the demographics,
the age group, who do you.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Want to be following you?
Speaker 5 (29:51):
That's step one, because what a lot of people do
is they jump into posting. They start posting like crazy,
but they're not really specifically targeting any group of people.
They're not trying to attract any kind of follower. They're
just like, I'm just going to post whatever and hope
people show up.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And that's not going to work.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
Right. Let's think about every major business that's blown up recently,
every major business that's blown up in the last twenty years.
Every successful business started with a niche. Even the biggest
of the big like Amazon, they got started with a
very specific demographic, a very specific niche that they were
focused on. So that's step one, and then step two.
Step two is we have to really make sure that
(30:26):
our profile is set up correctly, Like we need to
make sure that our profile articulates our niche, that it
clearly defines why someone should follow us, and really what
sets us apart from everyone else on Instagram, especially everyone
else who might do exactly what we do.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So that's step two, and then step three is the posting.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
So when it comes to actually posting, yes, that's like
I said earlier, that's how you're going to reach the
new followers. If we don't have the foundation laid, it's
a waste. It's like building a house on Quicksand once
we have that foundation laid, then it gets to the consistency.
And people hate when I say this, but it is
factually true, and it is that the more you post,
the more you grow. There's a great study done a
(31:07):
few years ago, and another study that just came out
in the last few months that confirmed this that there's
a direct correlation between the amount of posts you make
and the growth that you have. Now. Of course, there
are asterixes like the posts have to be quality, the
posts have to be related to your niche. You can't
just post crap. You can't just post random things. You
can't just post a bunch of selfies. As long as
(31:27):
you know have a quality post that relates to your
niche or that somehow connects with your ideal follower, it
is true that the more you post, the more you
can increase that frequency of consistency.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
The more your growth rate will increase. As well.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
I have two questions.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Is it true that the more you engage with your audience, Right,
I got post something and then there's all these comments
if I reply or if I like with the heart
whatever they said, is it true that that brings more engagement?
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Yes, yes it does. I wouldn't say that's like make
or break, do or die. You're okay if you don't.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Do those things.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
But also let's think about on a bigger picture here
social media. Yes, it's about the numbers, how many followers.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Do you have? Did you go viral?
Speaker 5 (32:13):
But ultimately, what we're all really after is like a
community of super fans, a community of customers, a community
of people who really trust us, they know us, they
like us, And the best way to do that is
by being social back with them, So engaging with them,
thanking them, responding to their comments. Like bigger than the
algorithm here, that's just human nature how we're going to
(32:33):
connect with people. And so yes, algorithmically, it does slightly
increase your engagement, and it does increase the likelihood that
they're shown your next post if you are engaging with
them on this post, but also just on a human
being level, it people really appreciate that, and people really
are going to seek out your posts and come back
to your posts if they had such a positive experience
(32:54):
the last time they left the comment the booze post.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
When you pay whatever I'm going to pay, fifteen dollars
is over the five dollars a day to boost a post,
and it tells you that is going to growth this amount.
I have never found that to be true. Why is
that that you put money to boost a post and
then you get three thousand more people?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
You know, it's like, why is that?
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Yeah, well, it's it's not an exact thing, and there's
a few different things we can talk about with boosting posts.
I generally say, don't boost a post unless it's already
done well. If it's already performed well and people already
like it, then you can boost it, right because then
the people have already told you this is good, so
then you can boost it so it reaches more people.
But what I see a lot of people doing is
(33:39):
they're like, this post didn't do well, so I'm going
to boost it so that it reaches more people. Well, essentially,
you've just taken a movie that wasn't a very good
movie and you've forced more people to sit down and
watch the movie. Of course, they're not going to like
it and they're going to unfollow you, or they're not
going to engage, or they're not going to seek out
your future posts. In terms of like how many people
does it reach, it's never any Zach Science. Instagram can't
(34:01):
necessarily promise that X number of people will see it.
They usually try to give you like a range. Hey,
if you spend five dollars a day, you can reach
between ten thousand and thirty thousand people. It's usually on
the lower end of that estimate unless the post just
does really well. If the post like starts to blow
up and people really like it, then Instagram will show
it to more people. But for most people, I usually
(34:22):
don't recommend boosting posts because it's it's just not that necessary.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
I have one more question.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Fascinating.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
So you start a business.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Let's say somebody is going to start a buttcast or
somebody's going to start a clothing line or whatever business, right,
and they hire you to help them with the social
media awareness? What is that going to entail? You're going
to do all the research about this is your demo,
(34:53):
this is the kind of content you should be doing,
like like, like, what.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Do you do exactly to amplify that business?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, so, so we really have two options. We have one.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
I say we because I actually do almost all of
this with my mom. Sounds funny to say that, but
she actually has more followers than me on Instagram. A
lot of people know who she is more than they
know who I am. She grew her following way before
I did. But she has a background in marketing. I
mentioned it earlier that you know my entire life, her
and my dad have owned and bought and sold businesses,
(35:23):
So she has a background in marketing and entrepreneurship. And
together we have this membership where we teach you everything
you need to know. We give you like the step
by step lessons, but it's more of a done for yourself,
like you have to do it yourself type of thing.
We're going to give you the outline, we're going to
give you the structure. We're going to give you the
ideas and the templates and the trainings, but ultimately it's
on you to pull the trigger. That's different than someone
(35:45):
who's working like one on one with me, which in
all honesty, I do very few of Now, you know
I did. Like I mentioned earlier, I did like five
hundred coaching sessions early in my career, worked with a
bunch of people.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Now I do very few.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
I really only take one new client a month, just
because I can help a lot more people and teach
a lot more people through my content on social media
and through my course, my membership that I run with
my mom. We can just help a lot more people
in a lot less time. It's a lot less demanding
on me. But with my one on one clients, it's
really the step one, two and three that I gave
you a minute ago. We start with the niche, and
(36:20):
I do not pick their niche for them, because ultimately
that's something you have to pick for yourself, and there
isn't really a right or wrong answer. It's just whatever
you want it to be, whatever you choose your demographic
to be. There's plenty of niches out there in the world,
plenty of demographics of people who are ready, who want content,
who want to be served, who want to be educated.
So I help them figure out what that is, but
(36:42):
I don't pick it for them. And then from there
then we start the hard work of really refining the profile,
making sure that it's going to stand out, making sure
that it's going to clearly articulate what it is they're
posting about. And then the hardest work of all is
the consistency with the posting, the coming up with ideas,
the editing, the scripting, the actually posting every single day
(37:03):
and staying consistent. That's that's the real tough work.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's like.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Excited about it.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
You get insited.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I get excited about it. But this has been very educational.
I really appreciate your time and for people who want
our listeners who want to learn more or engage on
that side of you helping them. Did they just reach
out on your IG? Is that the easiest way.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
That's the best place.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, Brock.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Elevan Johnson hit me up on Instagram. I responded pretty
much all of my direct messages. I also have a
team member who helps me with responding to messages. But
if you shoot me a DM on Instagram, there's like
a ninety nine percent chance you're going to get a response.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
That's awesome, Brock. Thank you for your time, for your education,
and for having my back. Let me tell you brought
you're welcome. I look forward to that.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
I look forward to that check coming in the mail.
I really appreciateable for having me.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
On the show.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Thank you so much, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
This was amaz It was great.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
That was great.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
It's a lot of info.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
There's a lot of info. But I feel listen, that's
the kind of Instagram business I truly respect, Like that's
that's incredible. He's he's helping people understand it, he's helping
build he's you know, producing sort of a real business, right,
It's not just a vanity sort of thing. If there's
something there a lot of good substance.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
You need to follow him.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
His post a very educational like he like he guides
you through everything, like like what works, what doesn't work?
Hashtags like what's in, what's out? What you should do,
what you shouldn't be doing. It's a lot of content
that but I believe people that want to monetize, you know,
there's social media awareness and you can actually do really
(38:46):
good business if you understand how to play the game.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
That's the problem.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
It's like I have all these followers and I love
I love posting and I love feeling that sense of
community because I have fans that are like hardcore fans
and they're so lovely and supportive, and it means the
world to me and to people like us, you know,
because we're creatives and and we feed of that, you know,
we want people to be like, oh, they appreciate what
we're doing. And I would love to answer to every
(39:12):
single one of them. It's just a lot, and when
I don't have time to go through every single post
and say thank you or like try to engage. But
maybe I should start and I'm being instead of just
posting about, oh, look at this project and look at
this and look at that, I should just maybe maybe
be more open and more reachable when it comes to
just talking to them, just talking to them, you know,
(39:34):
doing videos about talking to that.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I don't often talk on Instagram on the video. I
don't do that a lot. And I need to engage
more one hundred percent. And you know what, it's been
a week since my last post. I think I need
to post probably today.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
This is what are you going to post today? I
cannot wait.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Swimsuit pick I just kid.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Shout that all blow up?
Speaker 4 (39:57):
No, definitely not come on.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I'll do the photo shoot. Okay, let's go home. Yeah,
and let's create you don't what I'm going to do that. Now,
let's create like a really cool three changes of like
really cool poses, and let's just put it out there
and see what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Well, I don't know if that, I don't know if
that photoshoots gonna happening today, But I want to make
sure our listeners know that. Don't forget. You can now
listen to he said aad ho on Amazon Music or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
It's available now on Amazon Music.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
That's right, glad, I cannot wait by Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to write us a review and tell us
what you think.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
If you want to follow us on Instagram, check us
out at he said ajor is that email.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Eric and Ross at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
He said, AB is part of iHeartRadio's Mike would do
that podcast network.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Bye,
This is he said, A yeah, the ho with Eric
Winter and Rosalind Santez.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hello, welcome back, thank you, welcome to you, and welcome
he said, aged the whole listeners to me.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yeah, welcome to you.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
That's new. She's a little rusty everybody. She's you know,
been traveling, so she's a little off. I'm a mess
off kilter. Yes, we have a great guest today, because
you know, I have this love hate relationship with social media.
I I kind of hate it, but I kind of
know we have to do it. I love it, and
I don't love it like you love it, but I
(00:40):
understand how important it is. And I'm actually very intrigued
to discuss more and learn more about social media from
an Instagram growth coach Brock Johnson, who I think you
follow or you're aware of. Yes, this is gonna be exciting.
He teaches creators and entrepreneurs how to gain followers, and
(01:01):
he just knows the ins and outs to everything social media.
So this is going to be educational.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
He's an Instagram growth coach.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
That's what I said.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Oh you just said that.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
I just said that. Where are you at? I told you?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
He got married to September seventeen.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I'll talk to him about it money.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
He's from southern California, like you.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
There, you have it. Hey, Brock, Hey, how's it going.
Speaker 5 (01:22):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Good good morning.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Some good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
We're just doing a little intro for you. And I
was saying in the intro that you know this, You're
You're the perfect person to have on the show right now.
I have sort of a love hate with social media.
I know, we you know, I have to do it
in my profession. It feels tedious. I get overwhelmed. My
wife has more of a love love with social media.
She's all about it all the time. And you're an
(01:47):
expert in this space. I mean, you've built a business
around it, so we we can't wait to sort of
dive into all that and understand where your passion came
from with social media and how you learn the ins
and outs so well.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Totally yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Well, I'm excited to be on the show, and I
totally get both sides of that coin. I totally understand
the love love and the love hate relationship with it.
I've experienced both. I think I experienced both on a
daily basis, so I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You do a lot of content, though so how do
you manage to you? I'm assuming it is a full
time job, right because I follow you. I've been following
you for a while, and you put out a lot
of like little instructions. I don't know how you call them,
like these little teasers, tutorials, little tutorials.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You do that on a daily basis?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
I would say, like, one of my goals on my
social media is that it's not just education. Excuse me,
it's not just entertainment, but it's also education. I want
people to be able to learn from my posts and
get that real value that they can apply to their
own circumstances and their own accounts. But I would say
at least one post per day of mine has some
sort of education value to it.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Good.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
And you come from a family of business minded people,
that's what you started. You went to college to study business?
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Absolutely not so I Actually I went to college to
play college football. Really, I was raised in a very
entrepreneurial family. So I was born and raised with a
mom and dad who both owned and operated businesses together.
But sitting around the dinner table every night, we weren't
talking about business and entrepreneurship. We were talking about football
(03:28):
because my dad also played professionally, so did my uncle.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
My grandpa is a.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
Prolific high school football coach, and so growing up I
was a football guy. I had little businesses growing up,
and I was into that sort of thing, but really
football was my passion, and I went to college to
play football, so I got a football scholarship. And it
was actually because I was a football player that I
was more or less forced kind of to start a business,
(03:55):
because at least at that time, when I was starting
out in college, maybe eight years or so ago, student
athletes couldn't get paid for their name, image and likeness
like they can now.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Now.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
They can get brand deals, they can do sponsorships, but
back when I was in college, I was like just
at the.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Cuff where we couldn't quite do that.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
So really I could either start my own business or
I could get a typical traditional job, But because I
was a student athlete, I didn't have the time to
get a normal job, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So that's really.
Speaker 5 (04:25):
What's forced me basically into starting my own business. And
so I launched my first real business when I was
about nineteen years old as a freshman in college, and
really my college experience was so that I could play football,
so that I could network and meet all these people
and have all these great connections. But most of my
business knowledge was acquired either growing up through my parents
(04:46):
or through all of the learning and trial and error
and everything I went through.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
While I was actually in college.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
When you say real business, what do you mean by
real business?
Speaker 5 (04:56):
Like jumping into that, well, I mean growing up, I
had a bunch of things that, like I call businesses.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I had, Like I had my own domain name when I.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Was like twelve years old, and I started this little
business where I would charge like my classmates to tie
their shoes with like some cool patterns and like that
made money. But I wouldn't call that a real business.
I was also I was a distributor for a company
at one point. I like did reselling at one point,
so like little things to make money.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
But you know what you said, Oh my god, I'm
such a dummy. I thought you said real like not
real life. It's a real life. I thought you mean
like your own making real That's part of the conversation.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
I'm so confused.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I totally get Defender Brock.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
She just completely went she was like huh. I was like,
what I thought mean like making it reel like he
was like real business with reels also on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, now that's the real.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So now I get it.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Is it truly sort of you started with like a
Snapchat sort of foundation, is how you were building your brand?
And then exactly so how did you with the inception
of Snapchat? And everything was so quick? I didn't do Snapchat,
but I know it was like boom, like three second
clips and it's gone. What was the business you could
build there? I'm just curious, Like, within three seconds, it
was just you were putting down, putting out really fun
(06:19):
content those three seconds, and then it just grabs followers
and and so forth and so on.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
So actually the original ria l the real business that
I said when I was nineteen was helping moms keep
their teens safe on Snapchat, because back in twenty fifteen
twenty sixteen, everyone was like really scared, and I should
say all the parents were really scared of Snapchat. What's
going on, disappearing messages, what's going on on the platform.
And so my business, the first real business that I had,
(06:47):
was basically explaining to parents, here's what's going on on Snapchat,
here's what's actually you know how to use the app,
and here's what your kids are doing on the app.
Here's how you can keep them safe. And that business
very quickly transitioned into how do you use Snapchat for marketing?
Because essentially I had now taught thousands of parents who
(07:07):
were also small business owners and they were in network marketing,
and they had their own businesses and they now knew
how to use Snapchat, and I had built my business
on Snapchat, so they wanted to know how to do
the same. And really, if you think back to this
time of twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen, that era, stories weren't
on Instagram yet. Instagram didn't have Instagram Stories. Snapchat was
(07:28):
the creator of the whole story's idea. Now every platform
has stories, but Snapchat started that, and that was really
how you grew your following. Is you basically created almost
like a daily vlog. So the clips, I think they
could have been originally up to fifteen seconds, and then
they expanded them to actually be up to sixty seconds,
and you just kind of filmed the daily vlog very
documentary style, like here's what I'm doing in my life,
(07:50):
Here's what I'm working on, and that's kind of how
you built your following on Snapchat. And then very quickly
after that, Instagram was like, oh, this is hot, this
is working, and so Instagram copied the idea and created
Instagram stories, and I understanding me, they.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Wanted to buy super Chat, right they wanted to buy Snapchat. Snapchat,
we wanted to buy. Then they said, well, we're bigger
and stronger, We'll just do it for a day and
we'll create stories that land for a day. And then
they passed on Snapchat and Instagram kept growing, and Snapchat
is kind of follow up.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
What is more relevant right now? Snapshot or Instagram?
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Instagram definitely instagrama Snapchat. From most research, Snapchat really isn't
being used all that much for marketing anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
There are a few niche cases.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
For the most part, the primary demographic of Snapchat is
much younger, and those people who are using Snapchat are
using it primarily for messaging rather than consuming content.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
What I love about your mission is that it's not
just and like, I have no I have no problem
with influencers and you know, someone wants to do a
bunch of swimsuit shots whatever they want to do to
bring followings. You know, people do their own business, you know,
I mean they created a job with that, but you
actually are out there educating people on how to build business,
whether it's online or just in general. It's it's impressive
(09:02):
in that regard, especially with Snapchat that that was a
real fear parents worrying about what their kids are seeing.
How fast you know, people could send things they disappear.
This is very hard to monitor and track. So that's
I mean, that's kudos for building up a breaking like that.
And now in the ig as as a coach, so
you're you're explaining that you know, what is explain to us?
(09:25):
I want to know what's more effective the reels, the
posts or the stories, like what actually draws more before we.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
We You answered that, how do you become like you
become an expert at Instagram? Like how do you become
an expert on Instagram or like Twitter, like x now
or TikTok?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Do you have to study? Like do you spend hours of.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Like learning about algorithms and analytics and just figure it
out the mind within Instagram?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Absolutely?
Speaker 5 (09:55):
And I think that there's you know the old adage
of the ten thousand hour rule, and that's how you
become a great basketball player. That's how you become a
great piano player. That's how you become a great Instagram
coach as well. And so even though I blew up
on Instagram in twenty twenty one, that's when I really
started to skyrocket my following and get some sort of
notoriety on Instagram. I had been an Instagram coach for
(10:17):
probably four years before that, and it's doing exactly what
you just said. It's studying the algorithms. It's working with
people on a one on one basis to figure out
what's actually working for them, what doesn't work for them,
What can I tell them that's going to help them
get the results that they want. I actually ended up
working with over five hundred people over the first couple
of years of my business, and so I just it
(10:38):
was so much learning, so much trial and error. I
had the knowledge from Snapchat of how stories work, so
I already had a good idea of how Instagram stories
would work, but the Instagram feed was a totally new
beast for me. And using it for business and using
it to grow a following and convert those followers into customers,
that was totally new, and so it was really three
or four years of practice, and then my account started
(11:01):
to really blow up and take off.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And then as that's happened, I've gotten.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Some really cool opportunities to actually like work with meta,
work with Instagram, get to actually like have conversations with
their staff, to really get like directly from the horse's mouth,
what's going on here, Like, how does the algorithm work?
What is actually being favored on the platform?
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So what does really engage followers more? Is it the stories?
Is it the post? Is it the reals? What is
for Instagram itself? Or I'm sure it's a combination thereof,
But what is the in your mind the number one?
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Yeah, so there's really two distinctions here. If your goal
is growth, if that is your primary objective gaining new followers,
then it's feed posts. It's absolutely not stories. If you
want to grow, Stories are a waste of time because stories,
they're only shown to your existing followers. So if your
existing followers are the only one seeing them, then they
already follow you. They can't follow you a second time, right,
(11:54):
there's no one new discovering your stories. Stories have a
huge purpose. Stories are very important. Stories are very important
for selling, for building relationships, for building trust, for allowing
your followers.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
To get to know you.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
But if you need to gain followers, if you just
need attention on your brand or your business, it's all
about the feed posts. And within feed posts, there's kind
of the two big categories. There's photos, which is really photos,
and carousels, which are like the slides show style posts.
So that's one kind, and then the other kind of
post is reels. Obviously, reels was invented in the summer
(12:27):
of twenty twenty I believe it was, or maybe yeah,
twenty to twenty, so it's been around for a few
years now. And initially reels were hot. It didn't matter
what you posted on reels. They were going to do great.
They were going to reach a ton of people. You
were going to grow your following if you were posting reels.
I mean, if at the beginning of twenty twenty one
you posted anything on reels, it was going to do well.
(12:48):
But now three years later, there's a lot more competition.
Our level of expectations for what makes like a good
reel that has definitely increased. And then probably the biggest
factor of all is directly from the CEO of Instagram.
He posted This was actually last summer he posted this
and he said, he said, you know, I think we
went too far with reels, and we started making the
(13:09):
entire Instagram platform dominated by reels. So we're going to
draw that back and we're going to balance out the
reach between reels and non reels. So reels and photos
slash carousels are now getting an equal distribution within the algorithm.
So for a lot of people, they're actually experiencing better
results with photos with carousels with non reels right now
(13:31):
than they are with just reels. But there isn't necessarily
whereas you know, two years ago, I might have told
you that reels were the best. Now that they're really balanced,
It really depends on you, your audience, what kind of
content you're making. It's not necessarily like reels are one
hundred percent better or vice versa.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Do you know what draws I've always wondered this when
you go whether it's a carousel or what's a real
and it says it's been viewed X number of times? Right,
I know there are plenty of reels that I happen
to like at your scroll and you see it, and
I don't really stay and watch it is there a
timeframe in which it counts as being viewed.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Basically, once the video begins playing, that counts as a view.
And it's kind of a confusing distinction. But Instagram doesn't.
What they show us the little triangle and we all
call it views, it's actually plays. And so we think like, oh,
I got one hundred thousand views. Actually you got one
hundred thousand plays. And so basically that just means the
(14:36):
video began playing one hundred thousand different times. So basically,
within basically the millisecond that the video begins, it counts.
There's no like, you know, it has to reach three
seconds for it to count as a view. As soon
as it starts playing, it counts.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Can you explain to me, because this is what's crazy,
and that this is why social media confuses me. Like
I have two point two million followers and change right
on Instagram and then I have one post that okay,
so two point two So I'm thinking, I'm I did
this little real that is going to be very effective, right,
(15:10):
so out of two point two, at least one point
one should see it.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And then when you look, only.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Eighty five thousand, what about all the other millions? Does
it mean that nobody else saw it? Like, why is
the reach so minimal compared to your followers.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Yeah, so there's so many factors here. First of all,
what you're experiencing is totally normal. I was actually just
working with a creator yesterday who has about fifteen million followers,
and of those fifteen million, only three hundred thousand or
what we would call engaged followers. So Hi, Basically, there's
there's so many factors here. So you have two point
two million followers. I'm guessing you didn't gain those two
(15:52):
point two million followers in the last week. It's probably
been over the course of a few years, right, yesh. So,
so first of all, think about how many there's at
least a small percentage of those two point two million
who they don't use Instagram anymore. Their account got hacked,
they deleted that account. Maybe they have two accounts and
they follow you on both, but they only really use
one account. Maybe that person like they passed away. I mean,
(16:15):
there's a certain amount of people who just they're not
on Instagram anymore. So that's a small chunk. Plus, there's
more content being posted now than ever before, right, there's
more people posting, so there's more competition and the amount
of time that we're spending on our phones. Despite what
the headlines may say, it's not exponentially increasing. It's not
crazy skyrocketing. We're using Instagram pretty much the same amount
(16:40):
in twenty twenty three as we were in twenty twenty
two and twenty twenty one, So the demand is equal,
but the supply has just crazily increased. Everyone's posting reels.
Right to go back to what I was talking about
a minute ago. In twenty twenty one, hardly anyone was
posting a reel. Now everyone including my Flip and Grandma
is posting reel.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So that's just ail cantage though they all get it.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So if I have two point two this is what
I'm confused because they say only ten percent of your
followers will get this.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Is that correct?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I don't think they. I mean, you know the answer
better than me, Brock, but I always it's the algorithm
has changed on Instagram in the past year or so, Like,
I don't see half of the people I follow. I
used to see a lot more content. Now I see
maybe let's say it's twenty thirty people in the day
and then all of a sudden, people I don't follow
start popping up as suggestions.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, the feature is definitely one of those factors as well.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
So not only is there increased competition, yet the demand
is the same. There's also more recommendations in the feed.
So as I'm just going through my home feed, I'm
not just seeing the couple hundred people who I follow,
I'm also seeing some posts that Instagram is recommending to me.
I'm also seeing some advertisements that have paid to be
on my feed. So basically, there's just so much competition.
(17:52):
There's so many other posts to see that it's impossible.
Quite literally, it's impossible for the average user to see
every every single post made from the people they follow
in a day.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And they get it. Though they get it, I would say,
do they get it?
Speaker 5 (18:07):
It's kind of like it's kind of like does the
email get delivered to your inbox? Yes, but there's some
emails that you never open, some emails that go right
to junk exactly that the automatically archived and filtered out
as spam. There's some emails that you open and you're
just like, I don't need it, and you just scroll
right past it. So the exact number isn't necessarily ten percent.
(18:28):
That's kind of the general thing that people will say
is like, it gets pushed to ten percent of your followers.
That's not one hundred percent accurate, but that's a good
way to think about it, is it gets pushed to
your post when you share, it gets shown to a
small percentage of your followers. If that small percentage does well, Like,
if that small percentage of people they all like it,
they're all commenting, they're all saving, they're sharing it with
(18:50):
their friends, they're really spending time with your post and
engaging with it, then the algorithm basically says, this is
a good post, the people are into it, they like it,
and then it will show it to more people. And
then basically it starts over so that next round of
people they basically have a fresh chance. Do they engage,
do they like it? And if they all like it,
then it gets shown to more people. And that's basically
how a post can continue to grow, grow, grow. But
(19:12):
one really interesting factor in all of this is let's
say that initial group, that first ten percent, they all
like it, they all engage, they all comment, But then
that second group, consistently they don't really like it for
whatever reason. Maybe they spent time watching it, but they
just didn't comment, they didn't like the posts, they didn't
actually engage in any way. Well, then over time the
(19:34):
algorithm learns, maybe we shouldn't show her posts to this
group because they're not really that interested in it. And
so that's how over time your reach can kind of
consistently diminish, and then it's like a self fulfilling prophecy, right,
it feeds into itself. Now you're reaching less people, so
you're going to be getting less engagement, which means you're
going to be reaching even less people, and then you're
(19:55):
just kind of on that downhill spiral.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
That's what I've noticed too, just in my own feed.
It's like if I have people you know it's close
friend of ours pretty much almost always because they're a
close friend, like their stuff, I get more of their
content all the time.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Exactly, And as soon as I stop.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Engaging or liking someone's stuff, I just get less of
their content. I've noticed that they're just not in my
feed anymore. And if I don't feel like liking many
people at all, like you said, the feed just starts
to become less and less and less.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What is algorithm for people like me that I use
the word all the time, but I don't know what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, yeah, the algorithm.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
We overcomplicate it especially and I'm saying we as in
like us Instagram coaches, we over complicate it. The algorithm
is simply, it's a math equation that runs Instagram, and
its job is to determine what do people want to see?
Do people want to see this post? Do want people
want to engage with this real? Do people want to
watch this story?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That's it.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
There are multiple there's a story's algorithm, there's a feed algorithm,
there's an explore page algorithm, because people engage with those
things differently. But ultimately it's just a math equation that's
looking at how many likes did you.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Get in what time?
Speaker 5 (21:03):
How many comments did you get, how long are the comments?
How much time are people spending watching your content? It's
taking into all of taking into account all of these
different factors. In fact, there is one leaked report that
apparently it's looking at like fifty thousand different variables on
your post, and basically its job is to just say
is this post good or not? Is this post something
(21:24):
that people want to see or not.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I just thought about something great and hopefully you'll defend
me and this works out in my favor. This could
very well backfire. We've talked about it on the podcast,
because she will you know the search page, right, it's
random things, and I know some of those things. I
tried to explain to her. Some of those things are
things you engage with. But also my understanding is per
(21:47):
the algorithm, if you have friends that send you content
and you click on it because they sent you something,
or who they follow, for example, their followers and things
that they I'm on this one giant chain with a
bunch of people I don't even really know, and I
got added to this chain, like it's so much stuff.
I mean you, it couldn't be more.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
It's not an Instagram chain.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
It's a text to Instagram to DM chain of like
thirty people and they send all these random videos from it.
Couldn't be more opposite, right, And so that affects the
search in my opinion. She was like, that's nonsense. There's
a girl the bikini that I.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Said, wow, Brock Brock, Okay, if I go to my
listen to me.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
If you go to my search stuff right, there's everything,
and there's different podcasts.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
There is a lot of things about makeup or.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Fashion or like spirituality, like things that I that I
follow right his search Right, If I go to the
little search thing, it's all bikinis, and.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I'm like, who the heck are.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
You searching a lot of women that this is a joke.
There's a lot of sports that come up. There's bodybuilding
that comes up.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I mean, he's blaming everybody, but.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
He's there's attacking animals on far East. There's like random things, right,
that just come up. And I'm trying to explain to
her it's not just like I don't follow those people,
and it's not that I'm searching you're searching. No, it
can literally be my friends sending something or being on
a chain like that, right or wrong? Bronx.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
So now I know I'm here, I know what you
guys invited me on.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Please tell me I'm right.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Bruh, No, So you're not so unfortunately you are corrector
maybe I should, says Rock And actually, this is a
great point. This is a great segue into this topic.
And this is really the distinction between the Instagram algorithm
and the TikTok algorithm. So on Instagram, they have what's
(23:38):
called a social based algorithm. They are they are definitely
looking out, what are you searching for, what are you
commenting on, what are you following and engaging? But Instagram,
because of its roots in Facebook, because of its you know,
early days, being created by by Facebook, it very much
cares about your social network. It cares about what are
(23:58):
your friends into, what are your friend watching, what are
your friends sending you?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Who do you follow?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Like I have my wife, for example, so I'm always
interacting with her, We're always sending each other things. So
the out my algorithm very much is looking at what
is she into, what is she looking at, what is
she searching for? Maybe we should show those things to
Brock as well. That's very true because Instagram has a
social algorithm. So absolutely you could very well be seeing
(24:24):
things on your Explore page because they're sent at a
massive amount, like in some random group chat that you're
a part of. TikTok, on the other hand, has what's
called a purely content driven algorithm. TikTok doesn't really care
what your friends are watching. TikTok doesn't really care what's
being sent to you. TikTok cares pretty much above all
(24:44):
else what are you watching? What are you engaging with?
So if you really want to get a clue as
to what people are into, scroll through their TikTok feed
and then you'll start to see, Okay, here's the kinds
of videos that they're watching and that they're engaging with.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Because that's really all that TikTok cares about.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
And not to go too much on a tangent, but
that's why a lot of people really prefer the TikTok
for you page and really say that the TikTok feed
is more enjoyable to scroll through because it's all about you.
It's all about what if you liked, what have you
engaged with? Not necessarily what have your friends been into
in the last couple of.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Weeks later Brook, thank you for doing oh my god
whatever whatever.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Anyway, So I.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Have a question, do you, like, do you coach people
regarding TikTok as well or just Instagram?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So I don't coach on TikTok. I.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Actually I blew up on TikTok in like twenty nineteen,
so before everyone got on TikTok, I got over there
and I was like I'm just going to make some videos,
but it's kind of a double edged sword. Catch twenty
two is I blew up for the wrong reasons, not
like anything bad. I blew up because I was dancing,
and I was in my college football locker room dancing
and I had like my pads on, and so people
(25:54):
thought that was really funny. And I love to dance.
I love to be silly and goofy, and that's definitely
a part of.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Who I am. But that's not my business. That's not
what I teach people, and that's not what I do.
So I blew up.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
In the early days of TikTok, I got like three
hundred thousand followers in like a week because of some
dancing videos. But a year later, I had graduated not
playing college football. It'd be very weird if I just
walked into the locker room and started filming myself dancing, right,
And so now I have three hundred thousand followers who
they follow me, but I can't give them what they
ask for. I can't deliver on what they followed me
(26:28):
for in the first place, and that's not my business, right,
I'm not going to teach them dance lessons. I'm not
going to do paid partnerships with dance studios.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Anything like that.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
So actually, I've recently restarted on TikTok and started over
from zero and kind of made the decision to ultimately
let that account with three hundred thousand followers let it
go because I know that those three hundred thousand followers
they're not ideal for me. They're not my ideal customer,
they're not my ideal avatar, they're not within my niche.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And so even though it might.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Look really cool to be like, I have three hundred
thousand followers, it's worthless if they're not following me for
the right reasons.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
How do you explain this is about TikTok a post
having eight point two million and then a week later
you do another post and it gets twelve thousand.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
It goes back to what I was talking about about
that content driven algorithm. So on Instagram, because it's such
a social driven algorithm, Instagram says, oh, well, hey, you
liked this post from this creator a week ago, and
you follow this person, so we're going to make sure
that you see their new post. But on TikTok, they
don't really care that you liked this person's post a
week ago, or that you follow this person. They just
(27:46):
care do you like this kind of content? Do you
enjoy this post? And so if you have a post
that gets eight million views on TikTok, the likelihood that
someone sees your next post doesn't necessarily increase all that
much less. It's the exact same kind of content and
the exact same quality of content.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
So to go viral, that's I guess. On TikTok, going
viral is very different than going viral on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Different, very much viral.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
And that's why so many people go viral on TikTok
is because it's just about the content, right, So it
doesn't matter if you have three hundred thousand or if
you have three hundred followers. If you make content that
the people are into, they're going to see it.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Got it? So here's my question, and I don't want
to beat optunity questions. I apologize. How do we grow?
Because I don't want to be buying followers, right, I
know that's a big thing. People buy followers. I you know,
in our business, followers definitely reflect on jobs that we
are going to get and we have good you know,
good following a good, you know foundation. But if I
(28:48):
want to grow followers more, and I'm terrible, I don't
post regularly. I'm like, I start, I post when I
feel guilty and like, oh, I need to post something
I haven't posted in a week like that. My last
post is a week ago, I think, and I know
that's part of the problem. Yeah, what is is that?
The main problem is if I just post more frequently,
you know, reasonable content. And I also don't post a
(29:08):
lot of myself and which is weird, Like I don't
just do selfies and talk to it. I don't do
that a lot. I might be a photo of me
with the kids or me out doing it, or that
it's something else. Are those two problems that I have?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Those are definitely two problems.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
And I would say that consistency is definitely a part
of it, but I wouldn't say it's the whole thing.
It might not even necessarily be the biggest problem.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Really.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Step one for growing on Instagram is the same as
step one for growing a podcast, the same as step
one for growing on YouTube, on TikTok, wherever. And that's
to really identify who is your target market, who is
your niche, who is your ideal follower and like all
the way down, get nitty gritty with all of the demographics,
the age group, who do you.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Want to be following you?
Speaker 5 (29:51):
That's step one, because what a lot of people do
is they jump into posting. They start posting like crazy,
but they're not really specifically targeting any group of people.
They're not trying to attract any kind of follower. They're
just like, I'm just going to post whatever and hope
people show up.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And that's not going to work.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
Right. Let's think about every major business that's blown up recently,
every major business that's blown up in the last twenty years.
Every successful business started with a niche. Even the biggest
of the big like Amazon, they got started with a
very specific demographic, a very specific niche that they were
focused on. So that's step one, and then step two.
Step two is we have to really make sure that
(30:26):
our profile is set up correctly, Like we need to
make sure that our profile articulates our niche, that it
clearly defines why someone should follow us, and really what
sets us apart from everyone else on Instagram, especially everyone
else who might do exactly what we do.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So that's step two, and then step three is the posting.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
So when it comes to actually posting, yes, that's like
I said earlier, that's how you're going to reach the
new followers. If we don't have the foundation laid, it's
a waste. It's like building a house on Quicksand once
we have that foundation laid, then it gets to the consistency.
And people hate when I say this, but it is
factually true, and it is that the more you post,
the more you grow. There's a great study done a
(31:07):
few years ago, and another study that just came out
in the last few months that confirmed this that there's
a direct correlation between the amount of posts you make
and the growth that you have. Now. Of course, there
are asterixes like the posts have to be quality, the
posts have to be related to your niche. You can't
just post crap. You can't just post random things. You
can't just post a bunch of selfies. As long as
(31:27):
you know have a quality post that relates to your
niche or that somehow connects with your ideal follower, it
is true that the more you post, the more you
can increase that frequency of consistency.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
The more your growth rate will increase. As well.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
I have two questions.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Is it true that the more you engage with your audience, Right,
I got post something and then there's all these comments
if I reply or if I like with the heart
whatever they said, is it true that that brings more engagement?
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Yes, yes it does. I wouldn't say that's like make
or break, do or die. You're okay if you don't.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Do those things.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
But also let's think about on a bigger picture here
social media. Yes, it's about the numbers, how many followers.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Do you have? Did you go viral?
Speaker 5 (32:13):
But ultimately, what we're all really after is like a
community of super fans, a community of customers, a community
of people who really trust us, they know us, they
like us, And the best way to do that is
by being social back with them, So engaging with them,
thanking them, responding to their comments. Like bigger than the
algorithm here, that's just human nature how we're going to
(32:33):
connect with people. And so yes, algorithmically, it does slightly
increase your engagement, and it does increase the likelihood that
they're shown your next post if you are engaging with
them on this post, but also just on a human
being level, it people really appreciate that, and people really
are going to seek out your posts and come back
to your posts if they had such a positive experience
(32:54):
the last time they left the comment the booze post.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
When you pay whatever I'm going to pay, fifteen dollars
is over the five dollars a day to boost a post,
and it tells you that is going to growth this amount.
I have never found that to be true. Why is
that that you put money to boost a post and
then you get three thousand more people?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
You know, it's like, why is that?
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Yeah, well, it's it's not an exact thing, and there's
a few different things we can talk about with boosting posts.
I generally say, don't boost a post unless it's already
done well. If it's already performed well and people already
like it, then you can boost it, right because then
the people have already told you this is good, so
then you can boost it so it reaches more people.
But what I see a lot of people doing is
(33:39):
they're like, this post didn't do well, so I'm going
to boost it so that it reaches more people. Well, essentially,
you've just taken a movie that wasn't a very good
movie and you've forced more people to sit down and
watch the movie. Of course, they're not going to like
it and they're going to unfollow you, or they're not
going to engage, or they're not going to seek out
your future posts. In terms of like how many people
does it reach, it's never any Zach Science. Instagram can't
(34:01):
necessarily promise that X number of people will see it.
They usually try to give you like a range. Hey,
if you spend five dollars a day, you can reach
between ten thousand and thirty thousand people. It's usually on
the lower end of that estimate unless the post just
does really well. If the post like starts to blow
up and people really like it, then Instagram will show
it to more people. But for most people, I usually
(34:22):
don't recommend boosting posts because it's it's just not that necessary.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
It's fascinating.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
I have one more question.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Fascinating.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
So you start a business.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Let's say somebody is going to start a buttcast or
somebody's going to start a clothing line or whatever business, right,
and they hire you to help them with the social
media awareness? What is that going to entail? You're going
to do all the research about this is your demo,
(34:53):
this is the kind of content you should be doing,
like like, like, what.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Do you do exactly to amplify that business?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yeah, so, so we really have two options. We have one.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
I say we because I actually do almost all of
this with my mom. Sounds funny to say that, but
she actually has more followers than me on Instagram. A
lot of people know who she is more than they
know who I am. She grew her following way before
I did. But she has a background in marketing. I
mentioned it earlier that you know my entire life, her
and my dad have owned and bought and sold businesses,
(35:23):
So she has a background in marketing and entrepreneurship. And
together we have this membership where we teach you everything
you need to know. We give you like the step
by step lessons, but it's more of a done for yourself,
like you have to do it yourself type of thing.
We're going to give you the outline, we're going to
give you the structure. We're going to give you the
ideas and the templates and the trainings, but ultimately it's
on you to pull the trigger. That's different than someone
(35:45):
who's working like one on one with me, which in
all honesty, I do very few of Now, you know
I did. Like I mentioned earlier, I did like five
hundred coaching sessions early in my career, worked with a
bunch of people.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Now I do very few.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
I really only take one new client a month, just
because I can help a lot more people and teach
a lot more people through my content on social media
and through my course, my membership that I run with
my mom. We can just help a lot more people
in a lot less time. It's a lot less demanding
on me. But with my one on one clients, it's
really the step one, two and three that I gave
you a minute ago. We start with the niche, and
(36:20):
I do not pick their niche for them, because ultimately
that's something you have to pick for yourself, and there
isn't really a right or wrong answer. It's just whatever
you want it to be, whatever you choose your demographic
to be. There's plenty of niches out there in the world,
plenty of demographics of people who are ready, who want content,
who want to be served, who want to be educated.
So I help them figure out what that is, but
(36:42):
I don't pick it for them. And then from there
then we start the hard work of really refining the profile,
making sure that it's going to stand out, making sure
that it's going to clearly articulate what it is they're
posting about. And then the hardest work of all is
the consistency with the posting, the coming up with ideas,
the editing, the scripting, the actually posting every single day
(37:03):
and staying consistent. That's that's the real tough work.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
It's a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's like.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Excited about it.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
You get insited.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I get excited about it. But this has been very educational.
I really appreciate your time and for people who want
our listeners who want to learn more or engage on
that side of you helping them. Did they just reach
out on your IG? Is that the easiest way.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
That's the best place.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, Brock.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Elevan Johnson hit me up on Instagram. I responded pretty
much all of my direct messages. I also have a
team member who helps me with responding to messages. But
if you shoot me a DM on Instagram, there's like
a ninety nine percent chance you're going to get a response.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
That's awesome, Brock. Thank you for your time, for your education,
and for having my back. Let me tell you brought
you're welcome. I look forward to that.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
I look forward to that check coming in the mail.
I really appreciateable for having me.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
On the show.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Thank you so much, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
This was amaz It was great.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
That was great.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
It's a lot of info.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
There's a lot of info. But I feel listen, that's
the kind of Instagram business I truly respect, Like that's
that's incredible. He's he's helping people understand it, he's helping
build he's you know, producing sort of a real business, right,
It's not just a vanity sort of thing. If there's
something there a lot of good substance.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
You need to follow him.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
His post a very educational like he like he guides
you through everything, like like what works, what doesn't work?
Hashtags like what's in, what's out? What you should do,
what you shouldn't be doing. It's a lot of content
that but I believe people that want to monetize, you know,
there's social media awareness and you can actually do really
(38:46):
good business if you understand how to play the game.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
That's the problem.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
It's like I have all these followers and I love
I love posting and I love feeling that sense of
community because I have fans that are like hardcore fans
and they're so lovely and supportive, and it means the
world to me and to people like us, you know,
because we're creatives and and we feed of that, you know,
we want people to be like, oh, they appreciate what
we're doing. And I would love to answer to every
(39:12):
single one of them. It's just a lot, and when
I don't have time to go through every single post
and say thank you or like try to engage. But
maybe I should start and I'm being instead of just
posting about, oh, look at this project and look at
this and look at that, I should just maybe maybe
be more open and more reachable when it comes to
just talking to them, just talking to them, you know,
(39:34):
doing videos about talking to that.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I don't often talk on Instagram on the video. I
don't do that a lot. And I need to engage
more one hundred percent. And you know what, it's been
a week since my last post. I think I need
to post probably today.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
This is what are you going to post today? I
cannot wait.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Swimsuit pick I just kid.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Shout that all blow up?
Speaker 4 (39:57):
No, definitely not come on.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I'll do the photo shoot. Okay, let's go home. Yeah,
and let's create you don't what I'm going to do that. Now,
let's create like a really cool three changes of like
really cool poses, and let's just put it out there
and see what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Well, I don't know if that, I don't know if
that photoshoots gonna happening today, But I want to make
sure our listeners know that. Don't forget. You can now
listen to he said aad ho on Amazon Music or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
It's available now on Amazon Music.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
That's right, glad, I cannot wait by Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to write us a review and tell us
what you think.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
If you want to follow us on Instagram, check us
out at he said ajor is that email.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Eric and Ross at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
He said, AB is part of iHeartRadio's Mike would do
that podcast network.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Bye,
Host
Roselyn Sanchez
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