June 7, 2024 • 38 mins
Ros & Eric are joined by author, therapist, expert, and speaker Dr. Viviana Coles today to talk about sex and intimacy within relationships. They open up as they walk through the 4 intimacy styles and identify them within their own relationship and talk through how “pillow talk” can help nuture a sexual relationship between a couple.
For more information you can visit https://doctorviviana.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is he said, Aya viho with Eric Winter and
Rosalind Fantev.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, good morning another episode of he said, ayad ho. Yes,
how are you great? We have a very special guest today.
This is uh, this is interesting. I wonder if this
is going to make you uncomfortable. We have doctor why
Viviana Coles, the intimacy expert. Are you gonna be uncomfortable
talking about intimacy?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I love author, therapist, expert speaker, sex and family therapist
for the show Married at First Site.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
The areas especialty, physical and emotional intimacy, relationship counseling, sex
related issues, A fair recovery, dating help, premarital counseling. Wow,
doctor Viviana Coles, I can't wait to talk with you.
This is going to be exciting. Let's bring her in.
So great having you on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thank you so much. This is really exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you. This has been you know, it's funny having
an miss the expert. We've talked about intimacy so much
on this podcast. We've talked about it with other guests,
other friends. You know, it's just it's been an ongoing conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Recently, had to talk with our daughter. She's twelve years old.
So we talked about we had to talk last week
about sex and just everything that goes what goes on internally,
and you know, she was saying, you know what, I
take human development at school, so she knew more than
we thought she knew, but there were other areas that
she was completely clueless. So it was really interesting as
(01:31):
a mom to navigate that for the first time, that deep,
you know, with our daughter.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It was incredible and.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
For me as a mom slash certified sex therapist, of
course I have kids who don't want to hear anything
from me, I imagine, but I will tell you just
remember to just start looking at it in terms of
there will be talks, as in multiple talks. Now someone
we need to improve with our than our parents did,
right they gave us like one talk maybe maybe yes,
(02:00):
but yeah, multiple talks and just being like, you know what,
I don't know the answer to that, but I'm going
to find out a lot of parents that I talked to,
they're worried to even talk about it because they're like, well,
what if they asked me something I don't know. I'm like,
then you tell them you don't know when you're going
to find out.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
One hundred percent. And I have a so with a
therapist like yourself. And it's funny I have I have
a degree in psychology. I stopped there. I didn't go
past my bachelor's. But was this scenaria you knew you
always wanted to go into? Or where did you start
in your practice and out of school and your master's
and doctorate, et cetera. Where did you Was it always
(02:35):
this path?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So I came from a family of Latinos. I'm I
was born first generation of American, born in Houston, raised
live here still. But my parents are from Colombia and Mexico,
and so they were actually pretty open about love and intimacy,
not necessarily the sex stuff until I was older, but
(02:57):
I knew that it was a really important part of
having like a healthy life, was to have a healthy relationship.
And my parents are going to be celebrating fifty years
married this year, my brother twenty two years, my husband
and I will be seventeen years. We have like a
lot of great examples around us. So it wasn't until
my junior year of high school, which was pretty early
(03:18):
if you asked me, that I realized I knew I
wanted to talk for a living. I didn't know about what,
and my advisor was like, well, what do you like
to talk about? Is that I'm always talking to my
friends about their issues. I went to an all girls' school,
so I was the only one with like a boyfriend,
and they would all ask me all about it and
any family stuff. They would bring it up. And I
(03:40):
was like, but that's not a career, and she's like, yes,
it is. You needed to take psych one on one
and sociology. Went I one in college and see what
you think. And I was hooked so much so that
I flew through college. I did it in three years
instead of four because I knew I still need to
take up my master's. In order to get your license,
you have to at least have your master's. In my
profession and in my family, I knew I would need
(04:04):
to get my doctor because my parents always said like, look,
if you're going to go for it, you need to
go all the way. We will support you, but you
need to be able to get that money and have
the credibility to be able to say you are at
the top of your game. So I knew I had
a lot of schooling left and I did. I really did.
But every time I would take a class, every time
I would do a special specialty, I knew I wanted
(04:27):
to just do that. And I was very fortunate that
it was a real like it just came together very
quickly for me. And still to this day, anybody I
work with says like, you can tell you really love
what you do, and I just do. I'm very fortunate.
I'm also very like loyal. I'm very monogamous in that way,
like I stick with the thing and just keep going.
(04:48):
So it often works together.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So you started to focus. I remember taking in school
a psychology of sexuality class and it was a very
fascinating class to me. I was from the get go.
I was like, this is you know. I thought a criminal,
you know, pathologythought me, that's what? Yeah, that area. At
one point and anyways, everything shifted. I wanted to become
an actress. Would I use that for different reasons now?
(05:11):
But did you not start to hone in on it
until probably your your doctorate?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So during grad school is when I was in Florida.
I went to Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale. It's
like so amazing, so beautiful South Florida. I loved it.
But over there, it's the only state, I believe to
this day that requires that if you say that you're
going to do sex therapy, you have to become certified
in it. So it's very popular there and was very
(05:37):
popular there. And I knew I didn't want to work
with children. I never wanted to be like a teacher
or anything. I knew I didn't want to work with
substance abuse. I just didn't get it. And so I thought,
you know what I'm gonna If I'm going to be
working with couples, I need to know something about sex.
I don't want to be caught like a dead you know,
like a deer in headlights. And I did that. I
was one of the youngest to complete that, and it
(05:59):
was It's just awesome. I loved it. But I did
not know that I was going to become known as
a sex therapist, because it wasn't until I came back
and I put it on my card. You know, we
still use cards back then that I was a certified
I was a licensed married with family therapist, but then
also a certified sex therapist. That's when the lines came.
That's when I had to have like an intern. Three
months later I had two interns and I had five locations,
(06:23):
Like it just blew up, wow. But I loved it,
and it was something that really came so easily to
me to talk about, whereas so many clinicians, first of
all a lot of marriage, not marriage and family that
a lot of counselors in general will not touch couples.
They do not like it. It's uncomfortable, they don't know
(06:43):
what they're doing, and certainly the vast majority of clinicians
won't touch sex. And it just was never an issue
for me. I always felt like it's something that's it
should be an approachable topic. Everybody does that, everybody has
sexuality inherently, so it just for me it has always
just been very easy, I guess in that way challenging
(07:04):
because every scenario is different, but the actual topic and
broaching it is not a problem.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Doctor V. What are the four intimacy rules?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yes, styles four intimacy styles are bonding, release, giving, and responsive.
And you can take the freequiz online for intimacy styles
quiz dot com to find out what percentage of each
style you tend to have in each of your sexual
experiences and for long term couples. It can change, and
(07:38):
that's why it's very different than the five love languages.
Meaning you can't just say I'm going to speak my
partner's intimacy style. We have our own needs too. So
my goal is to help couples to have and incorporate
twenty five percent of each of them, of each of
the four in nearly all or all sexual experiences if
you want to stay satisfied for the long term. And
(07:59):
of course I love to tell y'all about each one.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yes please, I need you to repeat them again because
I already forgot it.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So it's a bonding.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Bonding.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Bonding is that's those people who enjoy physical intimacy because
it helps them to feel emotionally bonded to their partner.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
But it doesn't have to be full sex. It can
be it could just be it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Can be any sort of sensual or sexual activity. But
the reasoning behind it is what makes them more into bonding.
They get that feeling of connection. They don't typically feel
emotionally connected to someone unless they're physically connecting with them.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Okay, so that's you.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So it's not just holding hands yet, it's intimate.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's something Okay, it's more intimate. It's something that you
would do with your partner, not with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Okay, that's my style. So that's the next one.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
What's the next one. The next one is release. So release.
They're the ones that they experience that high level of euphoria,
of ecstasy, of pleasure with every sexual encounter and then
to be able to attribute those feelings to their partner.
So they're going to be the ones that they want
that physical tension release. They're like, this feels good. I
(09:07):
love doing this with you. Thank you for doing this
for me. And they really can't handle long periods of
sexual inactivity. They get very antsy about it. Oh, that's there,
and you should be. You should be all of these.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
By the way, so far we haven't gotten to ros.
Let's I have a feeling.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I haven't LEXI what's happening here? Giving giving? They are
the people who they experience the most pleasure from giving
someone else pleasure.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's probably also closer to me.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So they feel very like I am in the right
place and I'm connected with you because I'm able to
give you pleasure and you're able to be vulnerable with
me in that way. Okay. The last one is what
I'm thinking. It can look it can look a little
(10:14):
like it, but it's called responsive, So response intimacy style.
They're most comfortable taking a more passive role and they
usually don't really think about sex until their partner brings
it up, and then they're very active in the situation.
They enjoy it, they appreciate it, they feel that connection.
But then it's off the plate again.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, sure, that's whine, but now it's becoming more you
because now you're away from me to initiate it.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
There was that's more for different reasons.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Is we're going to need more time people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
This is interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
So those are the intimacy styles.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And the reason that I brought that up was because,
I mean, I've been in private practice for over twenty
years and I kept getting the same question. We know
our we know our love language, we know how to
speak it, we've taken the quiz, we do all that,
but what about sex? And look, I am so thrilled
that doctor Gary Chapman came up with the five Love
(11:19):
Languages because it has changed the game for so many couples.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
It came out in nineteen ninety two. It has been
around for a long time. Yeah, so it's been really
helpful for so many people, of course more so in
the last ten years. But the what about sex is
the part where I said, you know what, I'll take
the baton. I totally, I totally know the what about sex?
And this is where I said, why are people needing
to have sex? I have so many couples that come
(11:45):
in and they're like, our sex life, sex, And I'm like, well,
why is sex so important to you? And they're like, well,
because we're together and that's what you're supposed to do.
That's not enough. It's not enough to just do what
you're supposed to do, especially if you're going to be
together for twenty thirty forty fifty six de plus years.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, so what do you think is that important sex
within a marriage?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I think it's important because it's the one thing if
you're in a monogamous relationship, if you're the one thing
you can do with just that person. And so if
it's missing, you don't get differentiated, you're not seeing as
sacred or cherished. Okay, because look, Raslin, you and I
could go to Asana. We'll see each other naked I'll
(12:27):
go to get a massage, they're gonna touch me. We'll
go to the you know, go to the dog, say
I love you, go to the kids, give them a
hug and kiss, you know, Like all of those things
can happen, but this in particular, should only be happening
when you're in a monogamous relationship with this one person.
So if it's not happening with them, it's not happening
at all. Well.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, and you could also experience a climax on your own, right,
You can have a sexual release and it's still not
connect making a bond with another person. That is, like
you said, one of a kind, because it's easy to
one off yourself and be like, Okay, I got the pleasure,
sort of made you know, made the endorphins go, made
the brain react, but you're not sharing something special with
(13:06):
somebody exactly that is only with that person.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, and I feel like part of the work that
so many people forget to do once the passion kind
of wears off between like you know, now, as little
as like six months to you know, maybe say eighteen
months of the relationship, that new relationship energy starts to
wear off, they forget to do the transition to something
that's more long term, and that's when they usually give
(13:31):
up on the relationship or they go out of the relationship,
they lose interest. But so much of the work that
I've been doing with my couples is trying to help
them to understand how to keep that spark alive after
the passion kind of dies. It sounds sounds awful, but
it just is, like, that's the way our neurology is.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah. So do you think out of the thousands, hundreds
of patients, not patients, couples right that come to clients
as the clients that come to you, I call them patients,
they're very ill. No, the clients come to you. People
always say the main reason for the vorce is either
sex or money, the economics of it all. Do you
(14:11):
believe that's correct? Those are the two main reasons. It's
sex okay, Sex okay, Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Of course, if you're not on similar pages when it
comes to money, that can be a problem. It can
make your life a living hell. Let's just say that.
But if you're not able to get on the same
page with sex, you will feel hopeless. Because look, if
you want to separate your finances, you do it if
that's what ends up meaning you can't separate the sex.
(14:37):
So I think a lot of people end up losing
their relationships and don't say that it's because of the
sex because they'll get judged. So many people will they'd
rather sit in a miserable, sexless marriage than say, or
even to their partner, tell their partner, I need to
leave you because of our sex life, because of the
(14:58):
fear of judgment, because a lot of people will say
I can't believe, like it's just sex, Like how could
you leave me for that? Like what about everything else
that we have going on here? I supported you through this,
I did this. Yeah, I get it, and that is
difficult and that's why you know, someone like me exists
to help them work through that. But it is a
valid thing to say, I'm leaving you because we cannot
(15:21):
have a healthy sex life.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
How do we explain then, a couple that is sexually active,
they're actually they're fine, they're doing well. You know, the
wife is satisfying the husband and vice versa, and still
one decides to go and cheat and be it unfaithful.
What is lacking then, what's.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Usually lacking is what I like to call Pillo talk.
It's that underlying current of sensuality that exists between a
long term couple that hopefully exists. And I'm actively out there.
I'm actually teaching a masterclass June tenth. Get out there.
It's a live, free masterclass all about this particular topic
(16:10):
that answers the question how do we keep the spark alive?
And I'm thrilled to be able to get it out
there and such as like Succinct and Broadway in that
way to such a broad public community, because so many
couples will say we have sex, and then I ask
(16:30):
them about it individually, and it's like they're going through
the motions. It feels like it always comes out of nowhere.
They're always arguing about initiation or the lack thereof. It's
not always about the quality, and it's not always about
the quantity. It's something that is missing outside the bedroom.
And that's what pillow talk is.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I would fully agree with a lot of what you're saying,
because we've had this conversation before, and I say, it's
not just the act of sex. It's not just you
being there and me, you know, getting the job done.
And we move on and we do other things right,
there's there's no I guess for again, if I check
boxes one and two on the styles right, there is
(17:09):
so much more that goes into the desire, the want,
the attraction, the fun, the play. It's not just let
me just go in there and have sex and let's
move on. It's a job. Because when sex is a job,
look at marriage can be a job. It takes a
lot of work. You have to put that energy in.
If you want to succeed, you want to build a
great company, you got to put a lot of time in.
(17:30):
You can't just expect it to run. You know, anything
takes work. Marriage over time, takes work. Sex I think
takes work as well. But as soon as you can
make work fun and enjoyable, then it's not work so
much anymore. And I and I always say, and we've
to have this in our own lives, are just talking
about people in general. Like sex cannot be a chore
(17:52):
or a task or a response. It's a responsibility, but
not it shouldn't be treated as such.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
And if it does feel that way, like it does
for so many people, then you're missing it. You're missing
the pillow talk. And that's what I'm trying to teach
everybody how to get it. What does it look like
when it's working? Where is it if it's not working?
Because a lot of the reasons, and I know just
from my own marriage, the reason that I think we're
(18:18):
still obsessed with each other is because we have so
much pillow talk. And again that's outside of the bedroom.
The bedroom is something else all and we talk about
that in my book before Intimacy Styles. But outside of
the bedroom, pillow talk is the key to making sure
that sex makes sense in your relationship.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think even just like in this could follow into
the pillow talk category as well. But it's like fun
gestures throughout the day, throughout the week, the work week.
You can send little text, little notes, little key things
that could be just sexual hints or fun things that
keep things fresh and new. Yeah, keep the mind, I believe,
from going astray. And that is what I think marriages
(18:56):
could have a lot of trouble with. If you're sitting
there and you could be having sex every single day,
but if it feels like a chore, you're it's just
the same as masturbation in a sense, right, there's no connection.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
If that if it feels like it's coming out of nowhere.
So like I'll ask each of you, what's one thing
that you do too to talk to add to that
feeling that like we are to let each other know
that you're interested in each other sexually outside of initiating sex.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I mean, I've done some emojis, emojis or fun little
you know, texts or fun things like that. I do
that sort of thing. Or I've done you know, even
certain just physical contact throughout the day or little things
like that that could be fun or cute. That's that's
sort of the stuff I would.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Do, right What about for you?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Utlying, I don't really have an answer to be to
be honest, I just participate. I just answer the text.
Or I know that if his first thing in the morning,
I'm doing the dishes, let's say, and he looks back
by me and he touches me or charrasses me, I
know immediately, okay, tonight, he probably wants something because he's
(20:05):
already given me signals first and in the morning that
he's very loving today. So I choose to reciprocate or
make a comment that is funny about what he's doing,
or not say anything at all. But I am definitely
not the initiator when it comes to foreplay for pilotok
(20:26):
I'm not, I'm not. I can be the initiator for
the act, the actual act of like, okay, we'll watching TV.
Let me just do something. I'm gonna reach my hand
and I'm gonna touch and I initiate. But when it
comes to the pillow talk, to be honest, no, not
a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay. So I love that you can be that aggressor
that initiator for the sexual piece of it. I'm sure
that that does help him to be able to say,
you know what, she does want me, she does desire me.
It's so important, especially for men, y'all need that. I'm like,
you gotta pet, you gotta put with that feeling, feeling wanted.
I love it and I love that you do that.
(21:01):
But the pillow talk piece, if he's the only one
ever kind of giving those signs, there might be times,
and this is not just talking to you, but this
is talking to everybody, there might be times where he says,
am I, is she doing this because she's been getting
all picking up on my cues all day and all
week or all month? Or is this because it's something
(21:24):
that she really wants to do. Pillow talks helps to
make to support that initiation, like it's not coming out
of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Very common conversation that we have that is like nail
on the head right, yes, I mean, without going in
too much detail, that's basically nail having those moments of
like do you really want the same thing I want?
Or are you doing what I want because I want it?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And the truth is for a lot of women, this
is the case because we're not really socialized to be
the pursuers. We're not really socialized. We're always kind of
told men always want sex, okay, and that's obviously not
true when you really look into things, but generally speaking,
that's what we're told is men always want sex, they
will always want you, and in long term relationships, it
(22:12):
has to be something that's more of a dance because
if not, just like men and women, we're aging, our
ideas change and so there will be some insecurities and
if you're not showing your partner that they still do
it for you, unless you're doing it, then you got
to be either doing it all the time. We're talking
about doing all the time or I mean, it's a.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Lot of pressure on sexts because it goes back to me.
It always goes back to the root of dating. And
we've joked about this many times. I always said, like,
first dates were the most fun to me because it
was the unknown. It was the rush. It's the adrenaline
rush of what am I going to find out? What
am I going to learn? Is she into it? She
not into it? That is what's fun a lot of times.
And I think the longer you get into a relationship,
(22:54):
you let a lot of those you know, root efforts
just drift by the side, like they go away. And
everybody wants to feel pursued, even thirty years in a marriage,
twenty years in marriage. You want to feel chased. You
want to be pursued, You want to feel desired. Everybody,
I think, men and women women I think, want that
as well.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
But we take it for granted. We do take it
for granted that it is happening, and we actually, you know,
we don't necessarily need that attention. But when women don't
get it in their relationships, they'll be the first to
raise that flag and say, like, wait a minute, what's
going on, Like you haven't pursued me, you haven't touched me,
you haven't grabbed me. You haven't do it, And a
(23:35):
lot of men don't feel like it's you know, Unfortunately,
they worry about it, feeling like it's not manly to
have that need, and they certainly then don't feel comfortable
to share that need, like I want you to pursue me.
I want you to show me that, I want you
to tell me I look good in these pants, you know,
and you know, Fortunately things are changing and men are
being encouraged to be more vulnerable and open with their feelings.
(24:00):
But it's still a little long way to go. And
I think that it's something that pillow talk in general.
If we just start talking about it in terms of,
like every couple needs it, then we don't have to
get too in the weeds as to like who needs
it more. It's just everybody needs it, and I can
teach you how to do it. Let me.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I don't even know how to put this into words,
but let's say you have two clients, right, Yes, one
came from a very loving upbringing where he or she
was able to see parents that respected, loved, were loyal,
Just a beautiful upbringing right where love was first and
(24:40):
physical touch was first, and see the parents holding hands
when they go to the mall, you know, or just
watching TV. And then you have the other client that
works in that is a really good person but had
an upbringing of absolutely no love or respect between the
parents that it was a lot lot of emotional and
(25:01):
verbal abuse. Never saw them kiss, you know, nothing to
do with the love that the parents had for the child.
Because maybe they were fantastic parents, but as a couple,
they were highly dysfunctional. So how do you advise that
person that wants to have a very functional, beautiful, loving relationship,
But that's not what the person knows.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
So the first thing that I would do is ask
them to make sure that they're checking in and look
this across the board. If you're going to be in
a marriage or a long term relationship, especially if you're
living together, you should be having weekly check ins. This
is to manage your relationship, to manage your life together,
and part of that is to check in with am
(25:45):
I showing you love in the way that feels good
to you? Nobody asks that, They just assume it is
until they tell them otherwise. But if you grew up
in a relationship where you don't really know what healthy
love looks like, it's even more important, you know, it's
even more important to ask that question and then of
course to get the answer, because if someone says, you know,
(26:09):
I don't really know if you're showing me love, Okay, great,
we need to do the five intimacy five love languages.
And then if they're like, I don't really know if
our sex life is satisfying her to me, Jenna, Okay,
let's talk about the four lovel four intimacy stuff like
these are the sorts of things that there are resources
out there. But if you don't ask, then your partner's
probably not going to volunteer that relationship unless they're just
(26:31):
incredibly emotionally intelligent. But I would say, ask the question,
do I show you love in the way that feels
comfortable to you, that feels good to you, and hopefully
they can say yes, But if not, that's just a
starting off point. Thank goodness, you get that right. You
need that information to be able to be allowed to change.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
What is those common issue with sex and sex and
intimacy that couples come.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
To you with, Yeah, to talk to are one person
seems to desire sex so much more than the other one,
and then the other of course is infidelity. I get
a lot of infidelity issues, and a fair recovery is
something that I'm very passionate about. I wish I didn't
have to deal with it as often as I do
(27:17):
in my office, but I'm I'm happy to do it,
and I feel like, you know, seventy percent of couples
that go through affairs actually end up staying together. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Have you seen Ashley Madison?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I did? I remember when it happened?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
She didn't remember. We watched the documentary that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Was wild, and of course, you know, the way that
people can betray each other. It's still very shocking and
surprising to me, but it also, you know, to me,
everything makes sense in context. And helping couples to work
through that and then of course to rebuild is a
challenge that I'm really I love to do. But the
definitely the sexual desire discrepancy that's now one every single
(28:01):
day without fail. I'm seeing clients who one person wants
more sex than the other and they can't figure it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Out who is more willing to forgive on infidelity, the
husband or the wife.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Woo Okay, I think then I'll get a little bit
more nuanced. I think when it comes to emotional infidelity,
men they're more likely to forgive the emotional and women
are more likely to forgive the physical. Okay, that insecurity
is very difficult for men to not that they don't,
but their pride is also another part of it that
(28:34):
it's very hard for them to get over. And for
women it's the emotional. It's that piece of like, Okay,
I get it, you're a sexual being, but you gave
this person so much emotional attention that I've been needing
and wanting and asking for for so long, and I'm
here and you were willing to do that. Now, I
will say it gets a little bit more complex because
(28:54):
most men will add the emotional piece, they will do
the emotional piece to keep the physical piece, and most
women will add and do the physical piece to keep
the emotional piece in an affair.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Hmmm, interesting, it's tangled.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's a tank. That'll be my third book.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Tell us a little bit about how you got involved
with married at first Sight? Oh, believe at first site.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I do believe in love at first site. I think
my husband and I we had love at first sight,
so I do believe in it. Married at first site
was just an incredible experience. I was very fortunate. I
had been getting kind accorded and approached by all sorts
of different production companies to they needed an expert in
relationships to come onto their shows and kind of give
(29:50):
them that credibility. But nothing ever came of it. As
you know, it's a lot of like hurry up and
wait and let's see and all that. And then after
several years, I said, I wonder what would happen if
I went after it, and I started looking for a
production company and reached out to them. So I did,
and Kinetic Content had a ton of like really quality
shows out. I was like, you know what, I'm going
(30:11):
to give them my resume. And the truth is, like
three days later I was on the phone with them
doing the skype at the time and they'd were like, yes,
let's do this. But it wasn't until two years after
that that the opening at Married Eppersite came and I
was like, I was just in love with it. I
loved doing the show. I loved being a part of
(30:31):
all those new love stories. Hopefully, you know, oftentimes we wanted,
we were hoping for that the whole time, but it
didn't always happen.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
For reaching out. It's great.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, it was. It was one of those things where
I just tried to make it happen and it did
and it was wonderful.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I have one less question for you that I'm very curious.
What is the theory behind just making out with your
partner for ten minutes?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yes? Okay, so you heard about my makeout challenge.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I'm this is great.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Between the two of you. Who likes kissing more? Okay?
And when was the last time you made out and
did not do it as part of four play or
is part of like trying to do something else just
making up for the sake of making up? Never? It always.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
First dating right nineteen years ago and it was like
just make out for we kiss, but I mean like
making without having an intercourse never.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yes, okay, Well let me tell you remember how hot
that is and how it gets like everything just going.
I wish that more couples would do that on a
regular basis. You release so many of like the cuddle hormones,
the connection, and it's just good for your bodies to
experience that, especially your brains, and not associate it with intercourse.
(31:54):
So I'm going to challenge the two of you okay, orders.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
She'll laughing time. I already know.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
That's okay, that's okay, But but somewhere do it somewhere
where you would not be able to then turn it
into sex, or do it right before you have to
go to a meeting together or something like that. That okay, Like,
do not have sex after?
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Am I allowed to have sex that night because I
guarantee you, like throughout the day, I were like, okay, well.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Not have sex a long and there are six hours of.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yes, you know what happens for me that I don't
know if it's funny, this is very intimated. You're gonna
die when I say it, Like I get a giggle
right like every time Eric wants to try like something new,
or I feel like he's been a little like I
don't want to say aggressive aggressive in a sexy wait
like I find it to be like a little bit
more invested. I have a laugh attack.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Okay, why is that? So there's a little bit of
an awkwardness that you're experiencing, And it's not actually because
you don't know what you're doing. It's because it's the seriousness.
It's almost like you imagine the like swave, like deduction
and you're like, this is weird, Like you're just my playmate,
(33:13):
like we're outside.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Like what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I start laughing and you get so annoyed.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
So one of the reasons that that happens is because
there isn't enough pillow talk. If you had pillar talk,
you would be able to tap into that more like
central seductive, kind of a fiery side. Not that it
needs to be this whole production Okay, I'm not asking that,
but it would feel less funny and awkward if you're
(33:41):
not like jumping in and out of that space, that
sexy space. So I think having a little bit more
pillow talk would help with that as well.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Coming from two actors, That's the funny thing, right, because
like if you're if you were told to do a
role and you had to act like you're into S
and M or something right, and like this is the role,
I gotta do it, you'd be problem. I got to
figure out how to do it, and I want to
be the best person for this role. But then if
someone said, okay, go do that at home with your
partner that I'm into this net but I'm just saying
go do that at home. With your partner. You'd be like, oh,
(34:10):
I can't do it, this is so stupid, this is silly.
I don't know how to let myself go right. You'd
be so self conscious of the act at hand of
just being a little bit out of your comfort zone sexually.
But if it was for a role, you could go
way out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well. And that's why role playing is so freeing for
so many couples, because then it's well, you're not actually
judging me, You're we're playing this role, and it can
you know, you can use more toys, you can do
all sorts of fun fantasy. But again, when you're in
the long term relationship, I want your repertoire to include
(34:48):
all of that, not all the time, but a little
bit of these different things, you know. I like to
tell people you don't have to you might be Vanilla,
but you don't have to go to like Rocky Road.
You can go to like French Vanila and that might
be enough for a while or forever. But I used
to be awesome.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I used to like, we're waiting up and have readA
I even had a character, but she's been gone, long gone.
She went back to Puerto.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Rico, Listen, this has been so good. I mean we
could do part two and three of this. That's one.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
That's one, that's one, last one, last one. Do you
believe that having pictures of your kids and the family
in the in the master where we sleep is a
bad thing?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I don't think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Or not bad, but it shouldn't be there because that's
your intimacy room. That's mom and dad, and that's sacred.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So if you are having trouble getting into a sexy headspace,
then remove those things, including the TV, including that if
you have trouble doing that. Now, like a lot of men,
I'm imagining that Eric probably has no problem kind of
diving in and out of that sexy space. That's just
kind of the way that they are. They're so good.
(36:05):
Men in general are so good about allowing sexy thoughts
in and not immediately like shutting them away and like
pushing them away. They're like let them in. And that's
why their sex triss tend to be higher. Women could
learn something from a lot of men in that way.
So if you have trouble with that, like let's say,
any distractions for a lot of women, distractions kind of
take them out of that sexy space, then yes, remove them.
(36:27):
But if not, you know anything that's coming, like the
dogs on the side of the bed.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I'm like, oh my god, well we have dogs as well.
But also we could be like starting intimacy. And she's like,
do you remember when Sabella today asked Ford, like, what
are you talking about? Why are we talking about the
kids right now We're like about about to start being intimate.
Why are the kids popping into your head? Does it
come into my head? I take the pictures down, I
guess Okay. Anyways, this is nicome. Thank you so much
(36:56):
for sharing your knowledge and your experience with the really
incredible honestly, because I said it before.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
We could have particulars, which you do it once a
month with doctor V.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
There we go a second. Thank you so much, really great.
Oh and sorry, I love her. She's so so approachable
and just opened a conversation with this kind of stuff.
And listen, it's not an easy thing to have these
kind of conversations with anybody, you know, your partner publicly,
(37:33):
even a you know, a therapist. People get very uncomfortable
talking about stuff like this, but it should be more
of the norm, especially if you want to have a
healthy marriage.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, doctor V please follow her. She is pretty amazing.
That was amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I hope you guys enjoyed it all right. I love you,
thanks for listening. Don't forget to write us a review
and tell us what you think.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
If you want to follow us on Instagram, check goes
out at he said. As is an email Eric and
Ross at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
He said.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
ABO is part of iHeartRadio's my Ultuda podcast network.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Bye.
This is he said, Aya viho with Eric Winter and
Rosalind Fantev.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
All right, good morning another episode of he said, ayad ho. Yes,
how are you great? We have a very special guest today.
This is uh, this is interesting. I wonder if this
is going to make you uncomfortable. We have doctor why
Viviana Coles, the intimacy expert. Are you gonna be uncomfortable
talking about intimacy?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I love author, therapist, expert speaker, sex and family therapist
for the show Married at First Site.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
The areas especialty, physical and emotional intimacy, relationship counseling, sex
related issues, A fair recovery, dating help, premarital counseling. Wow,
doctor Viviana Coles, I can't wait to talk with you.
This is going to be exciting. Let's bring her in.
So great having you on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thank you so much. This is really exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you. This has been you know, it's funny having
an miss the expert. We've talked about intimacy so much
on this podcast. We've talked about it with other guests,
other friends. You know, it's just it's been an ongoing conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Recently, had to talk with our daughter. She's twelve years old.
So we talked about we had to talk last week
about sex and just everything that goes what goes on internally,
and you know, she was saying, you know what, I
take human development at school, so she knew more than
we thought she knew, but there were other areas that
she was completely clueless. So it was really interesting as
(01:31):
a mom to navigate that for the first time, that deep,
you know, with our daughter.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
It was incredible and.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
For me as a mom slash certified sex therapist, of
course I have kids who don't want to hear anything
from me, I imagine, but I will tell you just
remember to just start looking at it in terms of
there will be talks, as in multiple talks. Now someone
we need to improve with our than our parents did,
right they gave us like one talk maybe maybe yes,
(02:00):
but yeah, multiple talks and just being like, you know what,
I don't know the answer to that, but I'm going
to find out a lot of parents that I talked to,
they're worried to even talk about it because they're like, well,
what if they asked me something I don't know. I'm like,
then you tell them you don't know when you're going
to find out.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
One hundred percent. And I have a so with a
therapist like yourself. And it's funny I have I have
a degree in psychology. I stopped there. I didn't go
past my bachelor's. But was this scenaria you knew you
always wanted to go into? Or where did you start
in your practice and out of school and your master's
and doctorate, et cetera. Where did you Was it always
(02:35):
this path?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So I came from a family of Latinos. I'm I
was born first generation of American, born in Houston, raised
live here still. But my parents are from Colombia and Mexico,
and so they were actually pretty open about love and intimacy,
not necessarily the sex stuff until I was older, but
(02:57):
I knew that it was a really important part of
having like a healthy life, was to have a healthy relationship.
And my parents are going to be celebrating fifty years
married this year, my brother twenty two years, my husband
and I will be seventeen years. We have like a
lot of great examples around us. So it wasn't until
my junior year of high school, which was pretty early
(03:18):
if you asked me, that I realized I knew I
wanted to talk for a living. I didn't know about what,
and my advisor was like, well, what do you like
to talk about? Is that I'm always talking to my
friends about their issues. I went to an all girls' school,
so I was the only one with like a boyfriend,
and they would all ask me all about it and
any family stuff. They would bring it up. And I
(03:40):
was like, but that's not a career, and she's like, yes,
it is. You needed to take psych one on one
and sociology. Went I one in college and see what
you think. And I was hooked so much so that
I flew through college. I did it in three years
instead of four because I knew I still need to
take up my master's. In order to get your license,
you have to at least have your master's. In my
profession and in my family, I knew I would need
(04:04):
to get my doctor because my parents always said like, look,
if you're going to go for it, you need to
go all the way. We will support you, but you
need to be able to get that money and have
the credibility to be able to say you are at
the top of your game. So I knew I had
a lot of schooling left and I did. I really did.
But every time I would take a class, every time
I would do a special specialty, I knew I wanted
(04:27):
to just do that. And I was very fortunate that
it was a real like it just came together very
quickly for me. And still to this day, anybody I
work with says like, you can tell you really love
what you do, and I just do. I'm very fortunate.
I'm also very like loyal. I'm very monogamous in that way,
like I stick with the thing and just keep going.
(04:48):
So it often works together.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So you started to focus. I remember taking in school
a psychology of sexuality class and it was a very
fascinating class to me. I was from the get go.
I was like, this is you know. I thought a criminal,
you know, pathologythought me, that's what? Yeah, that area. At
one point and anyways, everything shifted. I wanted to become
an actress. Would I use that for different reasons now?
(05:11):
But did you not start to hone in on it
until probably your your doctorate?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So during grad school is when I was in Florida.
I went to Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale. It's
like so amazing, so beautiful South Florida. I loved it.
But over there, it's the only state, I believe to
this day that requires that if you say that you're
going to do sex therapy, you have to become certified
in it. So it's very popular there and was very
(05:37):
popular there. And I knew I didn't want to work
with children. I never wanted to be like a teacher
or anything. I knew I didn't want to work with
substance abuse. I just didn't get it. And so I thought,
you know what I'm gonna If I'm going to be
working with couples, I need to know something about sex.
I don't want to be caught like a dead you know,
like a deer in headlights. And I did that. I
was one of the youngest to complete that, and it
(05:59):
was It's just awesome. I loved it. But I did
not know that I was going to become known as
a sex therapist, because it wasn't until I came back
and I put it on my card. You know, we
still use cards back then that I was a certified
I was a licensed married with family therapist, but then
also a certified sex therapist. That's when the lines came.
That's when I had to have like an intern. Three
months later I had two interns and I had five locations,
(06:23):
Like it just blew up, wow. But I loved it,
and it was something that really came so easily to
me to talk about, whereas so many clinicians, first of
all a lot of marriage, not marriage and family that
a lot of counselors in general will not touch couples.
They do not like it. It's uncomfortable, they don't know
(06:43):
what they're doing, and certainly the vast majority of clinicians
won't touch sex. And it just was never an issue
for me. I always felt like it's something that's it
should be an approachable topic. Everybody does that, everybody has
sexuality inherently, so it just for me it has always
just been very easy, I guess in that way challenging
(07:04):
because every scenario is different, but the actual topic and
broaching it is not a problem.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Doctor V. What are the four intimacy rules?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yes, styles four intimacy styles are bonding, release, giving, and responsive.
And you can take the freequiz online for intimacy styles
quiz dot com to find out what percentage of each
style you tend to have in each of your sexual
experiences and for long term couples. It can change, and
(07:38):
that's why it's very different than the five love languages.
Meaning you can't just say I'm going to speak my
partner's intimacy style. We have our own needs too. So
my goal is to help couples to have and incorporate
twenty five percent of each of them, of each of
the four in nearly all or all sexual experiences if
you want to stay satisfied for the long term. And
(07:59):
of course I love to tell y'all about each one.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yes please, I need you to repeat them again because
I already forgot it.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So it's a bonding.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Bonding.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Bonding is that's those people who enjoy physical intimacy because
it helps them to feel emotionally bonded to their partner.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
But it doesn't have to be full sex. It can
be it could just be it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Can be any sort of sensual or sexual activity. But
the reasoning behind it is what makes them more into bonding.
They get that feeling of connection. They don't typically feel
emotionally connected to someone unless they're physically connecting with them.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Okay, so that's you.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
So it's not just holding hands yet, it's intimate.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's something Okay, it's more intimate. It's something that you
would do with your partner, not with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Okay, that's my style. So that's the next one.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
What's the next one. The next one is release. So release.
They're the ones that they experience that high level of euphoria,
of ecstasy, of pleasure with every sexual encounter and then
to be able to attribute those feelings to their partner.
So they're going to be the ones that they want
that physical tension release. They're like, this feels good. I
(09:07):
love doing this with you. Thank you for doing this
for me. And they really can't handle long periods of
sexual inactivity. They get very antsy about it. Oh, that's there,
and you should be. You should be all of these.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
By the way, so far we haven't gotten to ros.
Let's I have a feeling.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I haven't LEXI what's happening here? Giving giving? They are
the people who they experience the most pleasure from giving
someone else pleasure.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's probably also closer to me.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So they feel very like I am in the right
place and I'm connected with you because I'm able to
give you pleasure and you're able to be vulnerable with
me in that way. Okay. The last one is what
I'm thinking. It can look it can look a little
(10:14):
like it, but it's called responsive, So response intimacy style.
They're most comfortable taking a more passive role and they
usually don't really think about sex until their partner brings
it up, and then they're very active in the situation.
They enjoy it, they appreciate it, they feel that connection.
But then it's off the plate again.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, sure, that's whine, but now it's becoming more you
because now you're away from me to initiate it.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
There was that's more for different reasons.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Is we're going to need more time people.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
This is interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
So those are the intimacy styles.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
And the reason that I brought that up was because,
I mean, I've been in private practice for over twenty
years and I kept getting the same question. We know
our we know our love language, we know how to
speak it, we've taken the quiz, we do all that,
but what about sex? And look, I am so thrilled
that doctor Gary Chapman came up with the five Love
(11:19):
Languages because it has changed the game for so many couples.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
It came out in nineteen ninety two. It has been
around for a long time. Yeah, so it's been really
helpful for so many people, of course more so in
the last ten years. But the what about sex is
the part where I said, you know what, I'll take
the baton. I totally, I totally know the what about sex?
And this is where I said, why are people needing
to have sex? I have so many couples that come
(11:45):
in and they're like, our sex life, sex, And I'm like, well,
why is sex so important to you? And they're like, well,
because we're together and that's what you're supposed to do.
That's not enough. It's not enough to just do what
you're supposed to do, especially if you're going to be
together for twenty thirty forty fifty six de plus years.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, so what do you think is that important sex
within a marriage?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I think it's important because it's the one thing if
you're in a monogamous relationship, if you're the one thing
you can do with just that person. And so if
it's missing, you don't get differentiated, you're not seeing as
sacred or cherished. Okay, because look, Raslin, you and I
could go to Asana. We'll see each other naked I'll
(12:27):
go to get a massage, they're gonna touch me. We'll
go to the you know, go to the dog, say
I love you, go to the kids, give them a
hug and kiss, you know, Like all of those things
can happen, but this in particular, should only be happening
when you're in a monogamous relationship with this one person.
So if it's not happening with them, it's not happening
at all. Well.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah, and you could also experience a climax on your own, right,
You can have a sexual release and it's still not
connect making a bond with another person. That is, like
you said, one of a kind, because it's easy to
one off yourself and be like, Okay, I got the pleasure,
sort of made you know, made the endorphins go, made
the brain react, but you're not sharing something special with
(13:06):
somebody exactly that is only with that person.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yeah, and I feel like part of the work that
so many people forget to do once the passion kind
of wears off between like you know, now, as little
as like six months to you know, maybe say eighteen
months of the relationship, that new relationship energy starts to
wear off, they forget to do the transition to something
that's more long term, and that's when they usually give
(13:31):
up on the relationship or they go out of the relationship,
they lose interest. But so much of the work that
I've been doing with my couples is trying to help
them to understand how to keep that spark alive after
the passion kind of dies. It sounds sounds awful, but
it just is, like, that's the way our neurology is.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah. So do you think out of the thousands, hundreds
of patients, not patients, couples right that come to clients
as the clients that come to you, I call them patients,
they're very ill. No, the clients come to you. People
always say the main reason for the vorce is either
sex or money, the economics of it all. Do you
(14:11):
believe that's correct? Those are the two main reasons. It's
sex okay, Sex okay, Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Of course, if you're not on similar pages when it
comes to money, that can be a problem. It can
make your life a living hell. Let's just say that.
But if you're not able to get on the same
page with sex, you will feel hopeless. Because look, if
you want to separate your finances, you do it if
that's what ends up meaning you can't separate the sex.
(14:37):
So I think a lot of people end up losing
their relationships and don't say that it's because of the
sex because they'll get judged. So many people will they'd
rather sit in a miserable, sexless marriage than say, or
even to their partner, tell their partner, I need to
leave you because of our sex life, because of the
(14:58):
fear of judgment, because a lot of people will say
I can't believe, like it's just sex, Like how could
you leave me for that? Like what about everything else
that we have going on here? I supported you through this,
I did this. Yeah, I get it, and that is
difficult and that's why you know, someone like me exists
to help them work through that. But it is a
valid thing to say, I'm leaving you because we cannot
(15:21):
have a healthy sex life.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
How do we explain then, a couple that is sexually active,
they're actually they're fine, they're doing well. You know, the
wife is satisfying the husband and vice versa, and still
one decides to go and cheat and be it unfaithful.
What is lacking then, what's.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Usually lacking is what I like to call Pillo talk.
It's that underlying current of sensuality that exists between a
long term couple that hopefully exists. And I'm actively out there.
I'm actually teaching a masterclass June tenth. Get out there.
It's a live, free masterclass all about this particular topic
(16:10):
that answers the question how do we keep the spark alive?
And I'm thrilled to be able to get it out
there and such as like Succinct and Broadway in that
way to such a broad public community, because so many
couples will say we have sex, and then I ask
(16:30):
them about it individually, and it's like they're going through
the motions. It feels like it always comes out of nowhere.
They're always arguing about initiation or the lack thereof. It's
not always about the quality, and it's not always about
the quantity. It's something that is missing outside the bedroom.
And that's what pillow talk is.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I would fully agree with a lot of what you're saying,
because we've had this conversation before, and I say, it's
not just the act of sex. It's not just you
being there and me, you know, getting the job done.
And we move on and we do other things right,
there's there's no I guess for again, if I check
boxes one and two on the styles right, there is
(17:09):
so much more that goes into the desire, the want,
the attraction, the fun, the play. It's not just let
me just go in there and have sex and let's
move on. It's a job. Because when sex is a job,
look at marriage can be a job. It takes a
lot of work. You have to put that energy in.
If you want to succeed, you want to build a
great company, you got to put a lot of time in.
(17:30):
You can't just expect it to run. You know, anything
takes work. Marriage over time, takes work. Sex I think
takes work as well. But as soon as you can
make work fun and enjoyable, then it's not work so
much anymore. And I and I always say, and we've
to have this in our own lives, are just talking
about people in general. Like sex cannot be a chore
(17:52):
or a task or a response. It's a responsibility, but
not it shouldn't be treated as such.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
And if it does feel that way, like it does
for so many people, then you're missing it. You're missing
the pillow talk. And that's what I'm trying to teach
everybody how to get it. What does it look like
when it's working? Where is it if it's not working?
Because a lot of the reasons, and I know just
from my own marriage, the reason that I think we're
(18:18):
still obsessed with each other is because we have so
much pillow talk. And again that's outside of the bedroom.
The bedroom is something else all and we talk about
that in my book before Intimacy Styles. But outside of
the bedroom, pillow talk is the key to making sure
that sex makes sense in your relationship.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I think even just like in this could follow into
the pillow talk category as well. But it's like fun
gestures throughout the day, throughout the week, the work week.
You can send little text, little notes, little key things
that could be just sexual hints or fun things that
keep things fresh and new. Yeah, keep the mind, I believe,
from going astray. And that is what I think marriages
(18:56):
could have a lot of trouble with. If you're sitting
there and you could be having sex every single day,
but if it feels like a chore, you're it's just
the same as masturbation in a sense, right, there's no connection.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
If that if it feels like it's coming out of nowhere.
So like I'll ask each of you, what's one thing
that you do too to talk to add to that
feeling that like we are to let each other know
that you're interested in each other sexually outside of initiating sex.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I mean, I've done some emojis, emojis or fun little
you know, texts or fun things like that. I do
that sort of thing. Or I've done you know, even
certain just physical contact throughout the day or little things
like that that could be fun or cute. That's that's
sort of the stuff I would.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Do, right What about for you?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Utlying, I don't really have an answer to be to
be honest, I just participate. I just answer the text.
Or I know that if his first thing in the morning,
I'm doing the dishes, let's say, and he looks back
by me and he touches me or charrasses me, I
know immediately, okay, tonight, he probably wants something because he's
(20:05):
already given me signals first and in the morning that
he's very loving today. So I choose to reciprocate or
make a comment that is funny about what he's doing,
or not say anything at all. But I am definitely
not the initiator when it comes to foreplay for pilotok
(20:26):
I'm not, I'm not. I can be the initiator for
the act, the actual act of like, okay, we'll watching TV.
Let me just do something. I'm gonna reach my hand
and I'm gonna touch and I initiate. But when it
comes to the pillow talk, to be honest, no, not
a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay. So I love that you can be that aggressor
that initiator for the sexual piece of it. I'm sure
that that does help him to be able to say,
you know what, she does want me, she does desire me.
It's so important, especially for men, y'all need that. I'm like,
you gotta pet, you gotta put with that feeling, feeling wanted.
I love it and I love that you do that.
(21:01):
But the pillow talk piece, if he's the only one
ever kind of giving those signs, there might be times,
and this is not just talking to you, but this
is talking to everybody, there might be times where he says,
am I, is she doing this because she's been getting
all picking up on my cues all day and all
week or all month? Or is this because it's something
(21:24):
that she really wants to do. Pillow talks helps to
make to support that initiation, like it's not coming out
of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Very common conversation that we have that is like nail
on the head right, yes, I mean, without going in
too much detail, that's basically nail having those moments of
like do you really want the same thing I want?
Or are you doing what I want because I want it?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And the truth is for a lot of women, this
is the case because we're not really socialized to be
the pursuers. We're not really socialized. We're always kind of
told men always want sex, okay, and that's obviously not
true when you really look into things, but generally speaking,
that's what we're told is men always want sex, they
will always want you, and in long term relationships, it
(22:12):
has to be something that's more of a dance because
if not, just like men and women, we're aging, our
ideas change and so there will be some insecurities and
if you're not showing your partner that they still do
it for you, unless you're doing it, then you got
to be either doing it all the time. We're talking
about doing all the time or I mean, it's a.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Lot of pressure on sexts because it goes back to me.
It always goes back to the root of dating. And
we've joked about this many times. I always said, like,
first dates were the most fun to me because it
was the unknown. It was the rush. It's the adrenaline
rush of what am I going to find out? What
am I going to learn? Is she into it? She
not into it? That is what's fun a lot of times.
And I think the longer you get into a relationship,
(22:54):
you let a lot of those you know, root efforts
just drift by the side, like they go away. And
everybody wants to feel pursued, even thirty years in a marriage,
twenty years in marriage. You want to feel chased. You
want to be pursued, You want to feel desired. Everybody,
I think, men and women women I think, want that
as well.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
But we take it for granted. We do take it
for granted that it is happening, and we actually, you know,
we don't necessarily need that attention. But when women don't
get it in their relationships, they'll be the first to
raise that flag and say, like, wait a minute, what's
going on, Like you haven't pursued me, you haven't touched me,
you haven't grabbed me. You haven't do it, And a
(23:35):
lot of men don't feel like it's you know, Unfortunately,
they worry about it, feeling like it's not manly to
have that need, and they certainly then don't feel comfortable
to share that need, like I want you to pursue me.
I want you to show me that, I want you
to tell me I look good in these pants, you know,
and you know, Fortunately things are changing and men are
being encouraged to be more vulnerable and open with their feelings.
(24:00):
But it's still a little long way to go. And
I think that it's something that pillow talk in general.
If we just start talking about it in terms of,
like every couple needs it, then we don't have to
get too in the weeds as to like who needs
it more. It's just everybody needs it, and I can
teach you how to do it. Let me.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I don't even know how to put this into words,
but let's say you have two clients, right, Yes, one
came from a very loving upbringing where he or she
was able to see parents that respected, loved, were loyal,
Just a beautiful upbringing right where love was first and
(24:40):
physical touch was first, and see the parents holding hands
when they go to the mall, you know, or just
watching TV. And then you have the other client that
works in that is a really good person but had
an upbringing of absolutely no love or respect between the
parents that it was a lot lot of emotional and
(25:01):
verbal abuse. Never saw them kiss, you know, nothing to
do with the love that the parents had for the child.
Because maybe they were fantastic parents, but as a couple,
they were highly dysfunctional. So how do you advise that
person that wants to have a very functional, beautiful, loving relationship,
But that's not what the person knows.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
So the first thing that I would do is ask
them to make sure that they're checking in and look
this across the board. If you're going to be in
a marriage or a long term relationship, especially if you're
living together, you should be having weekly check ins. This
is to manage your relationship, to manage your life together,
and part of that is to check in with am
(25:45):
I showing you love in the way that feels good
to you? Nobody asks that, They just assume it is
until they tell them otherwise. But if you grew up
in a relationship where you don't really know what healthy
love looks like, it's even more important, you know, it's
even more important to ask that question and then of
course to get the answer, because if someone says, you know,
(26:09):
I don't really know if you're showing me love, Okay, great,
we need to do the five intimacy five love languages.
And then if they're like, I don't really know if
our sex life is satisfying her to me, Jenna, Okay,
let's talk about the four lovel four intimacy stuff like
these are the sorts of things that there are resources
out there. But if you don't ask, then your partner's
probably not going to volunteer that relationship unless they're just
(26:31):
incredibly emotionally intelligent. But I would say, ask the question,
do I show you love in the way that feels
comfortable to you, that feels good to you, and hopefully
they can say yes, But if not, that's just a
starting off point. Thank goodness, you get that right. You
need that information to be able to be allowed to change.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
What is those common issue with sex and sex and
intimacy that couples come.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
To you with, Yeah, to talk to are one person
seems to desire sex so much more than the other one,
and then the other of course is infidelity. I get
a lot of infidelity issues, and a fair recovery is
something that I'm very passionate about. I wish I didn't
have to deal with it as often as I do
(27:17):
in my office, but I'm I'm happy to do it,
and I feel like, you know, seventy percent of couples
that go through affairs actually end up staying together. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Have you seen Ashley Madison?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I did? I remember when it happened?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
She didn't remember. We watched the documentary that.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Was wild, and of course, you know, the way that
people can betray each other. It's still very shocking and
surprising to me, but it also, you know, to me,
everything makes sense in context. And helping couples to work
through that and then of course to rebuild is a
challenge that I'm really I love to do. But the
definitely the sexual desire discrepancy that's now one every single
(28:01):
day without fail. I'm seeing clients who one person wants
more sex than the other and they can't figure it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Out who is more willing to forgive on infidelity, the
husband or the wife.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Woo Okay, I think then I'll get a little bit
more nuanced. I think when it comes to emotional infidelity,
men they're more likely to forgive the emotional and women
are more likely to forgive the physical. Okay, that insecurity
is very difficult for men to not that they don't,
but their pride is also another part of it that
(28:34):
it's very hard for them to get over. And for
women it's the emotional. It's that piece of like, Okay,
I get it, you're a sexual being, but you gave
this person so much emotional attention that I've been needing
and wanting and asking for for so long, and I'm
here and you were willing to do that. Now, I
will say it gets a little bit more complex because
(28:54):
most men will add the emotional piece, they will do
the emotional piece to keep the physical piece, and most
women will add and do the physical piece to keep
the emotional piece in an affair.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Hmmm, interesting, it's tangled.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's a tank. That'll be my third book.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Tell us a little bit about how you got involved
with married at first Sight? Oh, believe at first site.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I do believe in love at first site. I think
my husband and I we had love at first sight,
so I do believe in it. Married at first site
was just an incredible experience. I was very fortunate. I
had been getting kind accorded and approached by all sorts
of different production companies to they needed an expert in
relationships to come onto their shows and kind of give
(29:50):
them that credibility. But nothing ever came of it. As
you know, it's a lot of like hurry up and
wait and let's see and all that. And then after
several years, I said, I wonder what would happen if
I went after it, and I started looking for a
production company and reached out to them. So I did,
and Kinetic Content had a ton of like really quality
shows out. I was like, you know what, I'm going
(30:11):
to give them my resume. And the truth is, like
three days later I was on the phone with them
doing the skype at the time and they'd were like, yes,
let's do this. But it wasn't until two years after
that that the opening at Married Eppersite came and I
was like, I was just in love with it. I
loved doing the show. I loved being a part of
(30:31):
all those new love stories. Hopefully, you know, oftentimes we wanted,
we were hoping for that the whole time, but it
didn't always happen.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
For reaching out. It's great.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, it was. It was one of those things where
I just tried to make it happen and it did
and it was wonderful.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I have one less question for you that I'm very curious.
What is the theory behind just making out with your
partner for ten minutes?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yes? Okay, so you heard about my makeout challenge.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I'm this is great.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Between the two of you. Who likes kissing more? Okay?
And when was the last time you made out and
did not do it as part of four play or
is part of like trying to do something else just
making up for the sake of making up? Never? It always.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
First dating right nineteen years ago and it was like
just make out for we kiss, but I mean like
making without having an intercourse never.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yes, okay, Well let me tell you remember how hot
that is and how it gets like everything just going.
I wish that more couples would do that on a
regular basis. You release so many of like the cuddle hormones,
the connection, and it's just good for your bodies to
experience that, especially your brains, and not associate it with intercourse.
(31:54):
So I'm going to challenge the two of you okay, orders.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
She'll laughing time. I already know.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
That's okay, that's okay, But but somewhere do it somewhere
where you would not be able to then turn it
into sex, or do it right before you have to
go to a meeting together or something like that. That okay, Like,
do not have sex after?
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Am I allowed to have sex that night because I
guarantee you, like throughout the day, I were like, okay, well.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Not have sex a long and there are six hours of.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yes, you know what happens for me that I don't
know if it's funny, this is very intimated. You're gonna
die when I say it, Like I get a giggle
right like every time Eric wants to try like something new,
or I feel like he's been a little like I
don't want to say aggressive aggressive in a sexy wait
like I find it to be like a little bit
more invested. I have a laugh attack.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Okay, why is that? So there's a little bit of
an awkwardness that you're experiencing, And it's not actually because
you don't know what you're doing. It's because it's the seriousness.
It's almost like you imagine the like swave, like deduction
and you're like, this is weird, Like you're just my playmate,
(33:13):
like we're outside.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Like what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I start laughing and you get so annoyed.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
So one of the reasons that that happens is because
there isn't enough pillow talk. If you had pillar talk,
you would be able to tap into that more like
central seductive, kind of a fiery side. Not that it
needs to be this whole production Okay, I'm not asking that,
but it would feel less funny and awkward if you're
(33:41):
not like jumping in and out of that space, that
sexy space. So I think having a little bit more
pillow talk would help with that as well.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Coming from two actors, That's the funny thing, right, because
like if you're if you were told to do a
role and you had to act like you're into S
and M or something right, and like this is the role,
I gotta do it, you'd be problem. I got to
figure out how to do it, and I want to
be the best person for this role. But then if
someone said, okay, go do that at home with your
partner that I'm into this net but I'm just saying
go do that at home. With your partner. You'd be like, oh,
(34:10):
I can't do it, this is so stupid, this is silly.
I don't know how to let myself go right. You'd
be so self conscious of the act at hand of
just being a little bit out of your comfort zone sexually.
But if it was for a role, you could go
way out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well. And that's why role playing is so freeing for
so many couples, because then it's well, you're not actually
judging me, You're we're playing this role, and it can
you know, you can use more toys, you can do
all sorts of fun fantasy. But again, when you're in
the long term relationship, I want your repertoire to include
(34:48):
all of that, not all the time, but a little
bit of these different things, you know. I like to
tell people you don't have to you might be Vanilla,
but you don't have to go to like Rocky Road.
You can go to like French Vanila and that might
be enough for a while or forever. But I used
to be awesome.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
I used to like, we're waiting up and have readA
I even had a character, but she's been gone, long gone.
She went back to Puerto.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Rico, Listen, this has been so good. I mean we
could do part two and three of this. That's one.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
That's one, that's one, last one, last one. Do you
believe that having pictures of your kids and the family
in the in the master where we sleep is a
bad thing?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I don't think it's a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Or not bad, but it shouldn't be there because that's
your intimacy room. That's mom and dad, and that's sacred.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
So if you are having trouble getting into a sexy headspace,
then remove those things, including the TV, including that if
you have trouble doing that. Now, like a lot of men,
I'm imagining that Eric probably has no problem kind of
diving in and out of that sexy space. That's just
kind of the way that they are. They're so good.
(36:05):
Men in general are so good about allowing sexy thoughts
in and not immediately like shutting them away and like
pushing them away. They're like let them in. And that's
why their sex triss tend to be higher. Women could
learn something from a lot of men in that way.
So if you have trouble with that, like let's say,
any distractions for a lot of women, distractions kind of
take them out of that sexy space, then yes, remove them.
(36:27):
But if not, you know anything that's coming, like the
dogs on the side of the bed.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I'm like, oh my god, well we have dogs as well.
But also we could be like starting intimacy. And she's like,
do you remember when Sabella today asked Ford, like, what
are you talking about? Why are we talking about the
kids right now We're like about about to start being intimate.
Why are the kids popping into your head? Does it
come into my head? I take the pictures down, I
guess Okay. Anyways, this is nicome. Thank you so much
(36:56):
for sharing your knowledge and your experience with the really
incredible honestly, because I said it before.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
We could have particulars, which you do it once a
month with doctor V.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
There we go a second. Thank you so much, really great.
Oh and sorry, I love her. She's so so approachable
and just opened a conversation with this kind of stuff.
And listen, it's not an easy thing to have these
kind of conversations with anybody, you know, your partner publicly,
(37:33):
even a you know, a therapist. People get very uncomfortable
talking about stuff like this, but it should be more
of the norm, especially if you want to have a
healthy marriage.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, doctor V please follow her. She is pretty amazing.
That was amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I hope you guys enjoyed it all right. I love you,
thanks for listening. Don't forget to write us a review
and tell us what you think.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
If you want to follow us on Instagram, check goes
out at he said. As is an email Eric and
Ross at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
He said.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
ABO is part of iHeartRadio's my Ultuda podcast network.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Bye.
Host
Roselyn Sanchez
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