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October 5, 2023 31 mins

Tim Hardaway was a game-changing playmaker with the Golden State Warriors and the Miami Heat. Tim Hardaway, Jr. wanted to follow in his Hall of Fame footsteps and has made a name for himself in the NBA as a lethal outside shooter. 

Host Jon Frankel talks with the Hardaways about how the game of basketball brings them together, how they’ve both endured and overcome serious injuries, and why Tim Hardaway Jr. didn’t embrace his dad’s signature crossover move.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
In the game of life, Maintaining a healthy lifestyle and
nurturing meaningful connections with family can be among the most
formidable challenges we face.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
When I was at the game of Miami Heat and
they had those big rivals series with the Knicks, That's
when I really understood what my dad was about.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yet, for many professional athletes, fostering both has proven to
be a triumphant recipe for success.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
I never realized that he was going to play NBA
basketball until he got to Michigan.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm John Frankel. For the past two decades, I've traveled
the globe covering some of the most impactful human interest
stories and sports. On this show, I'm sitting down with
some of the biggest families in the game, the legends,
current superstars, and the up and coming playmakers to understand
what's really making them tick. What can pro athlete families

(00:56):
teach a new generation about the importance of caring for
your health and finding success in the face of adversity. Together,
we'll hear stories of their remarkable comebacks, setbacks, and the
crucial role their family and self care played in their
paths to championship glory. This is part of the game.

(01:19):
Imagine growing up having an NBA superstar as a father.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
I would just plan a game and have a fun
with Chris and Mitch and the Golden State Warriors and
with the Warriors fan. But I never knew that I
would be that type of player in the Hall of
Fame and that young in my career.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Now, imagine having to follow that on the hard court
and trying to carve out your own legacy. It's what
Tim Hardaway Junior faced as he began his own journey
to the NBA.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
I'm not gonna say a lie. I'm like, oh no, there's
no pressure.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
Like I was good.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
Like, No, it was. It was a ton of pressure
for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
The road to greatness has not always been a smooth ride.
When faced with adversity, you always knew he had one
person he could talk to.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
It's cool to have, you know, man up, like, let's
get this done. But it's sometimes here and there when
a father needs to be a father. And that's when
I needed that love, that support, that type of energy,
that type of vibe from him.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
At that point in time.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
A father and son bonded by a love of basketball
and each other. First of all, thank you both for
joining us. Yes, sir, How often do you both think
about the fact you're obviously not the first, you won't

(02:49):
be the last. There's lots of talk of Lebron James
wanting to play with his son. How often do you
think about the fact that you both made it to
the NBA.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
I think about it, you know, every time I watch
him play. I see the joy in him out there.
I have the joy on my face and my wife
be like, why you smelling? Let me like, because I'm
enjoying watch my son play, and you're bothering me. So
let me watch my son play, you know. Let me
let me watch him, Let me get into the game,
let me get into the moment, you know. And I

(03:19):
think that that's what all ex athletes are looking at
right now when they when they see their their sons
playing a game that they love to play and they
having fun playing it. When we watch them, we have
a smile on our face, We look like the joker
from ear to ear, and we feel joyful in our
hearts that they are doing something that we used to

(03:41):
do when and love doing. I take it one step further, Lebron,
you know, if he gets to play with his son,
oh man that I think that would be the ultimate
ultimate thing that you could ever do in basketball. If
you could play with your son in the NBA.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
If you play with your son, would you make him better?

Speaker 5 (04:03):
Of course, because I go in him all the time.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, he'd at least be the leading scorer all the time.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yes, that's how we used to do back and when
I was in high school, we had like a lot
of open runs, open gyms. My dad will always pick
me on the team to be on his team. It
was like Batman Robman. Every time down, He's just feeding
me the rock every single time, throwing love passes, on time,

(04:30):
on target passes, passed that pitch in the back of
the head if you're not paying attention.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Being able to.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Feed off of his energy and his guard skills that
he's shown in his Hall of Fame career, that made
me a better player.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
And it all started after my sophomore year in high school.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
At this point, Dad, are you still playing or you're retired?

Speaker 5 (04:49):
Retired?

Speaker 1 (04:50):
You're retired?

Speaker 5 (04:50):
Done?

Speaker 1 (04:51):
So, Tim Junior, you were what ten or eleven by
the time your dad retires, right, So, do you remember
watching him play?

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I really locked in and it really clicked once he
started playing for the Heat. When I was young and
he was with the Going State Warriors, I didn't even
know what was going on. But when I was at
the game of the Miami Heat and they had those
big rivals series with the Knicks, that's when I really knew,
like and understood what my dad was about and who
he was as a ballplayer. You could tell when we're

(05:24):
walking around the city of Miami, or we're going to dinner,
going to the fair expo out here or whatever, it
could be anything, and he's stopping every two three minutes
to take pictures or sign autographs. That's when I start
to realize, like around six seven, that he was that dude.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Did you like that when you walked around town because
he was your dad and this was your time with
your dad.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
I liked it, but it got to a point where
we were like, Dad, come on, let's go right, let's
get on. But now that I'm in the same situation
as he was, I understand now why he had to
do that, why he had to stop taking those pictures,
why he had to put someone a smile on someone
else's face.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
You know, for that day. You know.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
So branding, branding, marketing.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
I mean it's not every day that you get to
like walk around and then there's an NBA player Ryan
in front of you, especially a Hall of Fame point
guard playing for the Miami Heat at the time where
it was like nineties basketball.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
I want to go back to it for a second,
when you played together, starting when you were in tenth
or eleventh grade, and tim you're retired, you had watched
your dad play. You were you were beginning to understand
and appreciate what he did. But did you fully appreciate
his skills before you had a chance to play on

(06:47):
the same team with him and get those passes and
go up for the oops.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, I appreciate it a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
When you're sitting down in the stands and watching him
play and watching how the fans react to his game.
That alone gives you so much appreciation for what he's done,
you know, for the game of basketball. When I had
that finally opportunity to go out there and play with
him in the open runs or in the summer leagues
that we had when I came back from college, the

(07:14):
joy and the appreciation and the talking trash, you know,
ganging up on other people and talking trash to other
people and having each other's backs out there like that
was my way of like getting my energy, having my joy,
and like getting out there and competing at a high level.
And that gave me confidence knowing that if I'm playing

(07:34):
with a future Hall of Famer and I'm playing against
guys that are in the league, they're in an off
season and their training to get themselves back, and I'm
going at them and I'm not scared.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
I knew I was able to fulfill my dream.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Dad, when did you notice and realize that he was
going to have the skills?

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Great question.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
You may not have known whether he was going to
have the work ethic, the desire. When did you recognize
that he had the skills to be really good? Well,
he always had the work ethic.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
When we changed his shot, he was upset and I said,
you know, you had to change your shot because he
was shooting it.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
That was in middle school, right, That was the push
shot before you're strong enough from the waist and you
go up. Okay.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
I said, hey, you gotta change your shot now because
you're gonna start growing.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Why did you think he was going to grow? When
you were what.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Five eleven three quarters and I'm looking at him. I'm like,
I'm looking at his mom like I don't see it.
But I'm going to go with some experts that knew
about growth spurts and and knew about athletes and how
when they starting to grow and how they're going to grow.
So we changed his shot and he went out there,
he was practicing his shot, and I said, look, you

(08:44):
had to do, you know, one hundred push ups a day,
one hundred sit.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
Ups a day. And that was what worth etic came from.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Did you do the hundred push ups and sit ups
with him?

Speaker 5 (08:52):
No, not that.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
My cousins, his cousin, my cousins when they came down,
they were doing it with me too.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Right, No, I didn't do it much.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
That was I was done with that. So I passed
it on to him that my grammar school coach passed
on to me. But you know, his work ethic always
been there. He always wanted to get better. He always
wanted to work on his game. He always wanted to
shoot the shot, you know, and just work on and
get better. But you know, when we started playing and

(09:22):
he started growing, I never realized, you know, that he
was going to play NBA basketball you didn't. I did
not know until he got to Michigan.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Even in high school, which you were not highly recruited
out of high school. But knowing the game the way
you did, you did not think that he was an
NBA prospect at that time.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Not at that time. And I wasn't even thinking about that.
I was just thinking about him going to school and
getting to the right coach and developing his game and
then maybe maybe.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
We have a shot at it.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Did you want him to have a shot at it?
Of course you did. I want him to because I
knew he wanted to have a shot at it.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
The reason I asked that is that, listen, it's not
unusual for kids to want to follow their parents into
any career. You know, of course being a professional athlete.
But oftentimes parents said, don't follow me into medicine, don't
follow me into being a lawyer, don't follow But you
wanted him to be an NBA.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Player, Well, no, no, I wanted him to follow his dream,
and I wanted him to be able to fulfill his
dream as best as possible in his own way. And
he did do it in his own way when he
was playing with us, And I'm giving him the ball,
he's listening, he's understanding the game. And he went out

(10:39):
there and got better and better and better. So when
he got to Michigan, it was easy. It wasn't hard
for him to become NBA basketball player. I just put
the seed in him, and I just helped him to
understand what he needs to work on and how he
needs to work at it, and understand that it takes
hard work to be in the NBA.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
And he put in that hallwork every day.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
With that hardaway name on the back of your jersey.
Not only was there pressure, did you feel that that
was a target for you? Did other one thousand people
like I'm gonna shut this kid down because of who
his dad is.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
It was a lot of trash talking, of a lot
of fights. It was a lot of arguing. You know,
you have to have thick skin, especially going into environments
around Miami, playing in these different schools and the kids
knowing who you are just because of the name on
your back.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
I'm not gonna say her lie. I'm like, oh no,
there's no pressure.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
I was good, like no, it was a ton of
pressure until he sat me down and talked to me
and gave me the conference and told me you were
doing everything you possibly could out there to go out
there and compete. NAD lifted so much weight off my
shoulders that I was good to go.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
When we return. How Tim Hardaway's senior overcame the devastating
knee injury that threatened his career, and how load management
and modern medical d advances if changed the NBA.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Back in our day when we play, if you was hurt,
you had to be on ir for five games, there
was no coming back and to after those five games up.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Part of the game. We'll be right back and now
back to heart of the game. Tim Hardaway Senior wasted
no time making his presence known in the NBA. He
made the All Star team three consecutive years with the Warriors,

(12:36):
and only the legendary Oscar Robertson reached five thousand points
and twenty five hundred assists faster than Hardaway. But then
disaster struck. In nineteen ninety three, Hardaway toward the ACL
in his left knee, costing him an entire season in
his prime. Keep in mind that back in the early nineties,
this type of injury was still potentially career threatening, but

(12:59):
never under us to make the competitiveness of an elite athlete. Tim,
Were you concerned when you were coming back about was
your game going to be at the same level? Were
you going to have the same quickness which you would
relyed on. Were those areas that you thought about consciously
in the moment, or did you say, hey, i'm young,
I'm a stud, it's only an issue. No.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
I never said I'm young, I'm a stud. I'm gonna
come back. What got me back is the competitiveness of Chicago.
I went back and when the doctor and the trainer
and everybody said you one hundred percent, you go through
basketball activities. I went back to Golden State, went through

(13:43):
a bunch of drills, played three on three and all
this type of stuff. And I went home and started
playing five on five, and in a pro am, a
guy picked me up that never picked me up before
full court. He looked me right in my eye and said,
you do not have it anymore. I could guard you.
He called you out right in front of everybody. And

(14:07):
from that point on, in that game, when I played
the game, he flipped the sw flip he flipped.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
He flipp flipped the switch. He flipped the switch.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
When he told me that competitiveness came into my body
and I just forgot about my knee in my whole career,
from high school to college and when I was in NBA.
He never picked me up full court after the game.
He said, Wow, I didn't think you had it anymore.
I thought you was done. You're gonna come back better
than ever. But I always say thank you to him.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Maybe he did it on purpose, maybe he knew what
you needed, but hey, it worked, It worked for sure.
Harnaway Junior endured his own injuries, such as a broken
foot in twenty twenty two. It happened during a routine
drive to the basket. Despite fracturing the fifth meta tarsal foot,

(15:00):
he managed to shoot man make his free throws before
being helped back to the locker room. Tim Junior, you
have had your share of injuries. You had the really
major foot injury, right, Yeah. What was that like for
you to fight through that again, both emotionally and physically,

(15:21):
to get yourself back to where you wanted to be.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I think, for the most part, me having surgery a
couple of years before that with my fractured tibia. After
leaving New York for the second time, I had got
surgery after that. I think this surgery wasn't as bad.
I knew I broke it, I knew I fractured my foot,
so I wanted to get the surgery done as quickly
as possible again to rehab as quickly as possible. The

(15:48):
mental I was fine, you know, for the most part,
because like I said, I had a previous injury where
I had to rehab and stuff like that, so I
kind of understood the process. But it hurt more when
I knew my team was out there playing without me
and they made this run, and I really wanted to
be a part of it, and me knowing and being

(16:09):
a competitor like I knew I could have helped him
out so much in the Webster Conference finals when we went,
so I really wanted to help and really wanted to
be there for them. So that I think that was
just the only difference were you able to lean on
your dad?

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Was was he a confident and able to tell you, look, son,
this is part of the game, and you're going to
work through it, both physically and emotionally, and you're going
to have to get back. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
For the most part.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Definitely was the first person to call, you have him
right in your pocket.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
What other basketball player, what.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Other professional athletes say that definitely leaned on him for
the whole recovery process. Just talk to him about the
game of basketball. Talk to him about what I see,
what he sees, what I could probably say to the
coaching staff, or you know, any type of way for
me to be helpful for my team while sitting out.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
You know, we talk about the physical challenges of playing
in this game and putting in your years, but there
are lots of mental parts of the game that maybe
the fan isn't aware of. I'm talking about the idea
of being traded and having to move, which both of
you have gone through. Can you each talk about that
and what that brings and what it entails. When you're

(17:22):
happy and you're settled in Golden State and then you
get moved to Miami, or you're in New York and
you get moved to Atlanta in Tim Junior's case, or
for a few days you even get sent down to
the G League and then you got to come back.
What does that do to you and your overall mental health,
which is now so much a part of the game

(17:43):
and is recognized by people.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Go ahead, tam, I'm not gonna lie you. That messed
me up tremendously. It's like you think you know, but
you really don't know. It was reality check, I would say,
for sure, especially getting up and moving from New York
to Atlanta and then not playing and then having to
get sit down to the G League and mentally you're like, damn,

(18:06):
you know.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
I thought I was doing something right.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
It's like this organization has a different say and a
different way of doing.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
It was hard having.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
To go to the G League and then come back
knowing that you're not going to play, not a single minute.
Even if you're up by twenty thirty and you're dressed out,
You're not playing just because they have something in line
for you to be the player they want you to become.
It just goes back to like I said, you think
you know, but you don't.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I imagine that there's a lot of self doubt that
begins to creep in.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Oh yeah, it was a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
It was a lot of sad, sad moments where I'm
crying on the phone to him, to my mom, to
my agent, second guessing myself what I need to do.
But then it's just started to click once I went
down to the G League and I started playing in
Austin with the San Antonio Spurs G League team, and

(19:03):
it was good because coach Budd was under Coach Popovich
and similar style of play offensively and defensively, So it
was the right situation for me to go out there
and learn how Coach Bud wanted me to play and
be the head guy down there and get my rhythm
and get my flow and just go out there and

(19:24):
play and have fun.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Dad, when Tim acknowledges that he was crying and calling
you up, talking to you and mom, are you Dad
in that moment?

Speaker 4 (19:34):
No, that's Dad. I can answer that for you. That's Dad.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
That's Dad. Yeah, that's Dad.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
Like I'm Dad.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
That's Dad for real.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
That's not get tough. This is part of the game.
It's a business.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
No, No, that's dad.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
It's cool to have, you know, man up, like, let's
get this done. But it's sometimes here and there when.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
A father needs to be a father.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
And that's when I needed that that love of that support,
that type of energy, that type of vibe from him.
At that point in time, already had the other stuff
from my best friends, my boys, and my agent already
had those guys, tell me the man up, You're gonna
be all right, do your thing. But father, he was
a father that point in time, and I respected that

(20:19):
and I needed that.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
So we're at twenty years since you've been out of
the game. Yes, wow to age both of us, Yes wow.
In general, how's your health? My health is good, health
is real good.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
You know, I got some bad knees, you know, but
not mean that sometimes that come with the territory. I
used to play on concrete all the time growing up
in growing up Chicago. That's all we had was playing outside,
especially during the summertime. It was basketball outside. There was
no indoor basketball where you go as young people, so
we played outside and we made the most of it.

(21:00):
Most of the guys that played Nick Anderson, Kendall Gill
in my era, the Byron Irve and that came out
of Chicago.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
Yeah I need a hurt.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Fourteen years you had the one major aco injury after
the ninety two to ninety three season. How's that need?
Do you have arthritis? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:18):
Well I got authritis everywhere my knees, my ankles, you know,
my wrist. But you know, like I'm telling you off air.
You know, I take this doctor. When I first came
to the NBA in San Francisco, I call him Doc Hollywood.
He introduced me to go close to me and Condroit.
It helped me out for my fourteen year career, and

(21:39):
without that I would not have played fourteen years.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Hardaway Senior is Tim Junior's biggest fan and rebels and
watching his son play ball. But these are two elite
athletes from two very different errors of the NBA. The
old school tape it up and play mentality from Hardaway
Senior's day no longer. Modern day players are often benched
to rest their bodies in the hopes of preventing long

(22:05):
term injuries and for other reasons. The Dallas Mavericks were
fined seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars by the league
for sitting most of their key players, including Hardaway Junior,
for a game late in the season. The league accused
the Mavericks of conduct detrimental to the league by benching
their best players in order to improve their chances of

(22:25):
keeping their first round pick in the twenty twenty three draft.
Regardless of the reasons, load management, as it's called is
very much a part of today's NBA. It is not
a concept that Tim Hardaway Senior knew anything about in
his day.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
I'll tell you this, Back in our day when we play,
if you was hurt use out for five games, you
had to be on ir for five games. There was
no coming back and to after those five games up.
So if you was in a stretch with five games
was eight days, you was sitting down for eight days.
You couldn't travel with the team. You couldn't go nowhere,

(23:04):
even though you was ready after the third game, you
had to sit down and wait till after the fifth game,
and then if they were still on the road, you
go and travel with them. It was different in our
day then. A lot of stuff with a lot of
rules was different.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Tim Junior, how do you feel You've been part of
the Dallas Mavericks and the team paid a price for this.
At one point you were one of the players that
sat out, not because your choice management said you're gonna
sit down. What's your feeling on all this and load
management today?

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Me personally, I mean I've always wanted to play. I
mean I played through a lot of injuries. And he
could tell you that firsthand. There's a lot of times
where I'll be hurt and everybody knows I'm hurt. He
knows I'm hurt, and I'll tell him like, no, I
don't think I'm gonna go tonight.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
But then I'm suited up, Brady to go.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
The competitive spirit and that energy when you're walking in
that tunnel and going into that locker room, your mindset
just flips the switch. The drilling is kicking. I can
get my coffee. I'm ready to go. I've always been
the guy that wanted to play.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Harnaway Senior is now two decades into retirement after forays
into coaching and TV work. He's enjoying his favorite pastime,
watching his son play ball. Dad, you said that you
enjoy watching him pay. You've got a smile. You have
to tell your wife leave me alone. I'm in my
moment here. Is it hard to watch Tim Junior? Do

(24:34):
you get nervous for him if he goes to the
foul line in a critical situation? Are you nervous? Do
you find yourself yelling at the tv?

Speaker 4 (24:42):
My mom does?

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah, his mom yells at a TV. I don't yell
at a TV. I'm always sweating. I'm in a moment,
my hands are sweating, and I feel like it's telepathy
that I'm trying to help him. And you know with
the basketball. I mean, one day my wife came down.
She said, why you got a town? I said, I'm
playing too, are you? But I'm into the game that

(25:08):
when I'm watching him, I'm into the game.

Speaker 5 (25:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
My friends called me, Why you calling me? Yeah, I'm
watching him play. Oh my bad. Yeah, he's on right
you watching him?

Speaker 5 (25:18):
So why I'm watching him? Leave me alone?

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Are you yelling shoot the ball?

Speaker 3 (25:23):
No question, I'm saying, how come he didn't shoot that?

Speaker 5 (25:26):
Why not you shooting? But then you know, my.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Wife yolan that. She would be like, well, was that
a good pass? I said, yeah, that was great pass.
He passed to a guy up under and he made
a layup. That was a great pass. And you know,
so sometimes she'd be like she wanted him to shoot.
I want him to shoot exactly. I said, no, he's
a team ballplayer. He passed the ball when you open,
that's what you're supposed to do. And she's like, okay, okay,

(25:49):
but I want him to shoot more. I said, okay,
And you just got to leave it alone.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
A major reason why Hardaway Senior is in the Hall
of Fame is because of that legendary crossover dribble. What's
interesting about his signature move is that it began it's
someone else's move. Correct me if I'm wrong, And you
can tell people this story, But it wasn't an original
idea of yours. Was it you were talking before we
started doing this, that you used to sit in your

(26:18):
dorm room at UTEP and you used to watch the
Big East Games on ESPN?

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Now what did you watch by Sarah Q Saint John's Georgetown?

Speaker 1 (26:27):
And was there one guy in particular?

Speaker 5 (26:30):
It was Pearl Washington.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
He came down one time against Georgetown in a carry
a dome and he shook this guy so hard that
he was off the screen. And I was like wow,
And you could feel the energy in the carry a dome.
You could feel Pearl Washington just do his thing. But
he was so low with the crossover he crossed him.

(26:53):
All was so hard and the guy went to his right.
He was off the screen and pe went down man
laid it up. I was like, ooh, I said, I
gotta go practice day. But I couldn't do it like
pearls so I invitted my own stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
And Tim when you were coming up right and you're
learning the game, you didn't know at the time you
were going to be six or five. Right, did you
practice the crossover? Did you see what your dad was
doing and say, I'm gonna I'm gonna drill this into myself.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
I'm gonna be completely honest with you. Now, I really
love shooting the ball.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
You said dribbling is for.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
For the point guard. I really loved shooting right. That's
what I love. I love to do. But I'm not
gonna lie.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
I've done it a couple of times in the game.
I could revert back to MSG my junior year. We're
playing Kansas State. I was coming up the right side.
I did the move the crossover, and I pull up
jumper and I pointed to him in the stands after
I did it.

Speaker 5 (27:57):
I remember, so it was I remember, yeah, yeah, it
was cool.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
So and you heard the oohs and ahs when I.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
Did it right that right.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
There was a special moment for me, especially doing it
in the garden.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
The Hardaways are close, not just like many fathers and
sons are, but their bond is unique because they belong
to an ultra exclusive fraternity the NBA. You have two daughters, Yes,
obviously they are not in the NBA. They're not in
the WNBA, Tim Junior. Everybody has a different relationship with

(28:34):
their parent, every sibling. Do you feel sorry for your
sisters in the sense that they don't have this bond
that you have with your dad. They might have a
different relationship and it might be just as good. But
did this give you something special that you think they
don't have.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
I mean, I would say to a certain extent, yeah,
I mean there's something that they don't have, and it's
just what we both are professional as fleets, Like you
can't teach that, you can't tell nobody.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
I mean, like you have to work to get to
that point.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
It's an exclusive club.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yes, yeah, yes, exclusive club man.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
So it's like that's the bond that we share, and
that's the barmb we're gonna share for the rest of
our lives. Like he said, he does have that spider
sense that when something's up, something is up. And I've
gone to him multiple multiple times and even told him like, Yo,
I need you right now. Can you come to Dallas
or can you come to Atlanta? Can you come to

(29:31):
New York stay with me for a week and chill
and vibe, go grab dinner, smoke a couple of cigars
and we chill out.

Speaker 5 (29:39):
But he relaxed.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
If he needs me, I'm first thing's smoking right there.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Now. He has to stop every two feet because people
want your picture and your signature.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Right yeah, and they don't recognize me, So I just
keep walking, keeking.

Speaker 5 (29:58):
E've be looking at me.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Where you going? And I'm like, hey, they don't want me.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
All right. I talked to you, Tam, Dad, love you.
I know you too.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Next time. On Heart of the Game, gold medal winning legend,
Alison Felix, the most decorated track and field athlete in
US history, speaks about her fight for equality for female
athletes and her transition from the track to becoming a
business owner and mom.

Speaker 6 (30:29):
I could find bright spots even when everything didn't go
perfectly right. And that's the point of my career where
I found more purpose and like trying to create some
impact and it just became a little bit bigger than
just a sport for me.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Heart of the Game is a production of Ruby's studio
from iHeartMedia. Our show is hosted by me John Frankel.
Our Executive producer is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post
Production is Matt Stillo. Our supervising producer is Nikkiah Swinton.
This show was edited Uy Sierra Spreen. Our writer and
researcher is Mike Avilla. Thanks for listening. We'll see you

(31:05):
next time.
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