Chapter 10: The Desert And Beyond: Heidi Moves To Pahrump, Nevada To Start A Stud Farm And Starts A Bird Sanctuary Instead
After prison, Heidi Fleiss tries to hustle up some new work by starting a Stud Farm in Nevada and ends up on Celebrity Rehab instead. She also discovers a new passion: taking care of tropical birds. Dr. Paul Fleiss is embroiled in a new scandal unrelated to his daughter. Charlie Sheen becomes a sitcom star but encounters further complications. Heidi gets caught up in a cryptocurrency scam. And what happened to everyone in Heidiworld.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, okay, everyone wants high ceilings, but how bad do
(00:38):
you want it? It's up to you how you feel,
how hard you'll work for it. Heidi Flice. Previously on
Heidi World. Heidi Flice has gone from l A's glittering
hilltop mansions to its prison downtown as a result of
her remarkable rise and fall in the nine nineties as
(01:00):
a Hollywood madam. By the two thousands, she is out
of jail and back to hustling up ways to make
money and cash in on whatever is left of her brand.
Welcome to Heidi World, Chapter ten, The Desert and Beyond.
(01:25):
Heidi moves to Perump, Nevada and to start a stud
farm and ends up starting a bird sanctuary instead. Plus
where everyone ended up. Welcome back to the final installment
of Heidi World. I'm your host, Molly Lambert. It's the
(01:48):
early two thousand's and Heidi Flice is out of prison
ready to rebuild her life from scratch. Her first stop
is the grocery store, where she treats herself to salmon
with mango salsa and buys every single flavor of Ben
and Jerry's ice cream. Every woman at the market was
(02:08):
looking at me as if I was mentally ill. Recently,
she's been CouchSurfing through her rich friends houses. Staying in
a guest room at a gated mansion in Brentwood. She
invites a journalist over to play chess with her while
she promotes her new memoir, a coffee table scrapbook style
(02:29):
tome called Pandering that retails for fifty dollars at stores
like Borders and Barnes and Noble. While she was in prison,
Heidi brushed up on her skills as a former child
chess champion and says she won every game she played.
Inside I See a check Mate, Heidi says she turned
(02:55):
down publishing deals from people who wanted her to do
a tell all because she still has no tension of
snitching on clients. Heidi, to do a book, now, you're
basically a has been and you have to dig deep
down and do some soul searching and tell it all. Instead,
(03:16):
she started her own publishing company called One Hour Entertainment
and put out the book she wanted to write. She
raised a few grand and went to the publishing trade
fair Book Expo America, where, in true Heidi fashion, she
came back with a four book deal. She started learning
the ins and outs of the publishing business. Whoever you
(03:37):
think is doing it, is doing it, and they're probably
doing it in weirder ways than you can imagine. Just
because I got caught and I sunk the ship doesn't
mean I have to take everyone down with me. At
thirty seven years old, Heidi is washed up as a
madam and aware that she could be considered unhirable for
(03:59):
virtually anything else by a lot of people. She jokes
about prison, but there is an underlying sadness. She felt
deserted when she was on the inside by everyone except
her family, who wrote her constant letters. She relapsed on
drugs almost immediately after re entering the straight world and
served a six month home detention for it pandering. Her
(04:22):
book is designed for an audience with increasingly short attention spans.
People don't read anymore. Magazine subscriptions are way down except
for Maximum Stuff and f a GM because their articles
are half an inch. To do a book now, you
have to make it very visually appealing and concise. Heidi
(04:47):
realizes that the world has changed in many ways while
she was serving out her prison term. While the trial
of Heidi Flice may have been an attempt to sweep
the sexual hypocrisy of powerful men under the rug. Like
an inappropriate boner, it always seems to spring back up.
The media sites are now set on destroying and humiliating
(05:09):
another young Jewish woman with unique sexual charisma who grew
up in Los Angeles, Monica Lewinsky. Heidi Flys thinks the
Kenneth Star report on Lewinsky's affair with President Bill Clinton
shifted the cultural needle in ways she could have never imagined,
making things like blow jobs, rim jobs, and sexually pleasuring
(05:29):
a woman with a cigar before biting down on it
and saying tastes good into national news. He made the
conversation different. He brought the subject of oral copulation to
the dinner table after pandering. Heidi wants to put out
(05:49):
other books, including a book about Tupac Shakur, a tell
all about Beverly Hills tutors, and a collection by photographer
Evan clan for a photos of prostitutes and strippers in Florida.
A made for TV Heidi Flics biopic is announced by
the USA Network. It will start Jamie Lynn Siegler, best
(06:11):
known for playing Meato soprano on the sopranos. As the
Hollywood Madam, Heidi Flice is a public figure, which means
the story is public domain. In the meantime, a humbold
and chastened Heidi will take money however she can get it.
She appears as a judge at the Venice Beach semifinals
of the l As Sexiest Competition, a promotion for the
(06:33):
Erotica l A convention taking place that weekend. Erotica l
A is actively trying to make adult conventions more female
and couples friendly, part of a larger movement of sex
positivity that encourages women to buy their own sex toys.
The Hustler Store in Hollywood may not have the feminist
credentials of San Francisco's pioneering sex toy shop Good Vibrations,
(06:58):
but it's part of it overall shift, spurred also by
HBO's hit show Sex in the City, towards women owning
their sexuality and also towards commodifying this type of sexuality,
telling women that they need a certain vibrator or expensive
brand of lingerie to feel truly sexy and empowered. It's
a twist on the yuppie ethos that Heidi profited off
(07:21):
of more money equals better than It's called third wave feminism,
and it encourages women to think of themselves as powerful
consumers like men. This puts them in the position to
exploit other less powerful women, which is how we get
to the concept of the girl boss. Heidi Flice opens
(07:42):
a new boutique on Hollywood Boulevard called Hollywood Madam, a
last ditch attempt to relaunch the Heidi were brand, but
she is in the valley of her popularity. She is
considered a dealist or now, but she still has a
dream of getting her valuation back up. The shop is
at sixty Hollywood Boulevard and the prices have gone up
(08:06):
with the times. Sweatpants are a hundred and fifty dollars
and there are corsets that cost nearly four hundred dollars.
The window display at Hollywood Madam is a nude mannequin
reclining in an antique bathtubs folk sets as bubbles float
down from a bubble machine in the ceiling. One of
(08:26):
Heide's innovations for the new store is to equip one
dressing room with a webcam and offer a thirty percent
discount to any customers who allow themselves to be live
streamed on her pay website trying on clothes in the
dressing room. Once again, Heidi was right. Hollywood Boulevard did
start to gentrify again soon after that. Unbelievably, the name
(08:51):
Heidi Flice is still visible on the storefront gate at
six Hollywood Boulevard as of this recording. I was completely
sure it was going to get scrubbed and flipped at
some point while I was making this podcast, but as
of today, it's still there. One thing I love about
Hollywood Boulevard, which is to me the capital of Los Angeles,
(09:14):
is that, like New York's Times Square, you can gentrify
and flip and try to make it upscale as much
as you want, but you can never wash the decades
of vomit, glitter and piss off the street, because that's
what Hollywood is, and we love it. In two thousand five,
(09:35):
Heidi moves down the Hollywood Corridor to Coinga Boulevard and
opens a place called a Little Shop of Sex next
to the trendy new Club Beauty Bar. It's the same
inventory from the Hollywood Madam Store, with a new investment
from her friend Jessica Steindorf. Steindorf is an actress from
Malibu who was in the NBC show Las Vegas. Her
(09:56):
father is a producer named Scott Steindorff, who produced Las
Vegas and more recently Station eleven. Jessica Steindorff became a
manager and producer, but she resurfaced in the news when
her Prius was one of the four cars Caitlyn Jenner
plowed into in the multi car crash on the Pacific
Coast Highway in Malibu, where Jenner killed sixty nine year
(10:17):
old Kim how Jenner settled with Steindorff and the other
survivors of the crash in court. Now. In the distant past,
especially in the Old West, Madam's often became locally revered.
The mass genocide of the indigenous people of the Western
States was carried out by American men, and when those
(10:39):
men began illegally occupying that land, the first thing they
demanded was access to women. Brothels were often the first
things built in Western settlements, and you can see this
in fictionalized portrayals like Deadwood or Robert Altman's McCabe and
Mrs Miller. Madam's were powerbrokers and considered essential to a
(10:59):
town success. One of early San Francisco's most famous madam's,
Sally Stanford, ran a notorious brothel on nob Hill, where
San Francisco Chronicle journalist Herb Kane joked that the United
Nations was founded because of how many of its members
were clients at Sally's. It wasn't even really a joke,
(11:20):
because apparently international relations were often actually negotiated in the
San Francisco brothel's lobby area. After the brothel was rated
in ninetift, Sally Stanford became a beloved local figure in
the Bay Area, and she actually became mayor of sas Alito, California,
at the age of seventy two after their media scandals
(11:43):
died down. Madam's do sometimes become beloved local figures symbolic
of an earlier, less tame era in a city, But
despite the endorsement of the Hollywood Business Bureau, Heidi stores
do not make it. But speaking of the wild best,
there is a place even more lawless than Los Angeles,
(12:04):
more blatantly sex selling, more corrupt, and more geared towards
conjuring luxurious fantasies out of than air that place is
the state of Nevada. Two thousand five, Heidi has a
(12:28):
new business venture. It's an ambitious new vision. She is
going to open a brothel where women can be serviced
by male studs. The plan is to charge two hundred
and fifty dollars an hour at Heidi stud Farm, which
will be located in the Great State of Nevada, where
prostitution is legal, but only in license brothels in towns
(12:50):
under a certain population, which excludes Las Vegas. Women are
more independent these days. They make more money and it's
hard to meet people like you. Wouldn't believe the number
of women who have told me, Heidi, if you do this,
I will be the first in line. I mean, relationships
are harder than dieting, you know what I mean. Heidi
(13:14):
stud Farm will operate in Crystal, Nevada. She moves to
the town of par Ump, sixty three miles northwest of
Las Vegas, and gets into business with Dennis Hoff, a
publicity loving businessman who runs a brothel in Crystal called
The Love Ranch. There's an HBO reality show about the
Love Ranch called cat House that airs as part of
(13:34):
HBO's adult Theme after Dark programming block which sadly Streaming
put an end to which I was sad about because
we love it. Heidi wants her stud farm to have
an old Hollywood theme with palm trees and waterfalls, just
like the classics sunset strip supper clubs. Madam Alex loved
(13:56):
It's gonna be like Leo DiCaprio and the Aviator, And
I'm going to put out a casting call for about
twenty guys. I bet I get thousands of applicants. People's
scoff at Heide's plans for the stud Farm, insisting women
wouldn't want to pay for sex at illegal brothel because
(14:17):
they are emotional creatures who aren't sexually motivated the same
way as men, to which I say, shut the fuck up.
I personally think Heidi was again ahead of her time,
and also lawmakers with this idea. A friend of mine
said she believed the reason that they didn't want to
legalize a business that would let women pay for no
strings attached sex is because it would enable women to
(14:40):
control the world. Heidi also ends up in possession of
a large amount of birds. I moved to Nevada to
get back into the sex business. I rented a house
that Unluckily for me, happened to be next door to
a retired madam who's bedridden. I want to time. She
(15:00):
ran the exotic bird department for the Tropicana Hotel, so
she had all these birds. One night, she called me
up at three in the morning saying she couldn't breathe
I went there as a helicopter was taking her away,
and as she's dying, she says, Heidi, you take care
of the birds. When Heidi World returns, what happened to
(15:29):
everyone else in Heidi World? Welcome back to Heidi World.
(16:00):
In two thousand and six, private investigator Anthony Pellicano is
indicted for wire tapping Hollywood journalists in order to scare
them out of writing stories that criticize his high profile clients.
Pelicano worked for Don Simpson as well as almost everyone
else in town. I'm an old man now and all
(16:21):
my associates are either in prison or dead. The old
days are gone forever, Anthony Pelicano, private investigator. The Anthony
Pellicano trial is the Hollywood big wig studded affair that
everybody thought The Heidi Fly's trial was going to be.
Hollywood power players like Mike Ovitz and Brad Gray are
(16:45):
witnesses on the stand, denying they paid Anthony Pelicano to
do any illegal wire taps for them or their companies.
Brad Gray even developed an HBO show with Policano about
a Hollywood private detective. Two thousand six, Dr Paul Flice
is back in the news for something unrelated to his
(17:06):
daughter Heidi. He's part of a story about a woman
named Christine Majori, whose three year old child, Eliza Jane,
died from AIDS related pneumonia. Majority is an HIV positive
AIDS skeptic who founded a group called Alive and Well
AIDS Alternatives, a nonprofit that encourages HIV positive mothers to breastfeed.
(17:30):
She is the author of a book called What If
Everything You thought you knew about AIDS was wrong. Paul
Flice is accused of not insisting to Majory that she
stopped breastfeeding her child and of not treating the child
with the proper anti viral therapy. You will remember all
the way back from episode one that Dr Flice was
(17:51):
a strong proponent of wet nursing and breastfeeding. Wet nursing
fell out of favor eventually, even among the new ageless,
fearless moms who or his clientele. Because the AIDS epidemic
made it more dangerous to swap fluids with other people,
including breast milk, a medical board seeks to revoke his license,
citing his treatment of another HIV positive child. Slice admits
(18:15):
he's somewhat of a skeptic about whether HIV causes AIDS,
saying he could be convinced either way. What is clear
is that doctor Flice allows AID skeptics and vaccine skeptics
to make their own decisions under his care, which puts
their children at risk. Now, it turns out that doctor
Paul Flice was not a straight up anti vaxer himself.
(18:39):
One of my friends who had him as her doctor,
told me that her mother was a vaccine skeptic who
didn't want to vaccinate her, and that doctor Flice actually
convinced her mother that they should just go ahead with
the vaccination and that's the reason why my friend is
vaccinated today. She also said that her mother was one
of Paul's many supporters who wrote into the Core to
(19:00):
support him during the I R S trial. Dr Flice
thought that patients should be allowed to decide for themselves,
which gets complicated when children who can't advocate for themselves
yet are involved and put at risk. He gave a
not great quote to The l A Times saying that
he was shocked when Eliza Jane died because he had
(19:20):
never seen her look ill. Christine Majori is not charged
with the death of her daughter. Meanwhile, Charlie Sheen and
Denise Richards have divorced. He debuts a children's clothing line
called Sheen Kids with a Z. Two thousand seven, Heidi
runs into some legal issues trying to open the brothel.
(19:42):
A lot of people are very opposed to the idea
of male prostitution. She whips up a plan B and
opens a laundromat in par Ump called Dirty Laundry Instead. Yeah,
instead of Heidi's stud Farm, I am going to open
Heidi's SuDS fun. Her ex boyfriend Tom Sizemore pays a
(20:07):
settlement in Heidi's case against him. He also gets busted
for meth violating the terms of his probation, also put
on probation. Dr Paul Flice his medical license is put
on probation for his involvement with the Christine Majori case.
Two thousand eight, Heidi appears on Nightline, offering her thoughts
(20:30):
on the Elliot Spitzer sex scandal. She manages to get
in a few plugs for the Love Ranch on air.
While she's at it. A new documentary about her called
Heidi Flice The Would Be Madam of Crystal airs on
HBO following Heidi's attempts to open the stud Ranch. The
documentary shows Heidi, now forty two years old, living alone
(20:53):
in the desert with her birds. She is very protective
of the birds, maccaus with yellow eyes. She has a
high functioning drug addict who uses math, valium and vic
it in, but she also goes through spurts of trying
to get sober. She has bought ten acres of land
in the desert. I'm going to build my Hearst castle.
(21:21):
Heidi gets busted in Nevada during a traffic stop for meth.
This marks another moment of shift. She wants to turn
her life around and where better to get clean then
on reality television two thousand nine, Celebrity Rehab. That was
(21:52):
the best show I've done in my life. I was
freaked out when I saw what I looked like like.
I was in the desert doing drugs and I realized
first of all that my problem was that bad. You think, oh,
I'll just stop whenever I want to. I thought I
would stop before the show, but I couldn't. I thought
I'll go when my problem is not that bad. When
when they called me to do it, I thought, hell no,
(22:13):
who wants to withdraw on TV? But then I was
so glad. It was so humiliating and so embarrassing like it.
It did make me change big time. Heidi appears on
the VH one reality show Celebrity Rehab for its third season.
(22:34):
Celebrity Rehab is a show from gigantic quack doctor Drew Pinsky.
On Celebrity Rehab, a bunch of celebrities are put in
a rehab house together and forced to withdraw and do
group therapy in front of cameras. It is one of
the most fucked up things I have ever seen, and
Dr Drew keeps insisting throughout that it's educational to show
(22:55):
viewers what rehab is really like. At the Pasadena Recovery Center,
Heidi checks in with her fellow castmates, basketball star Dennis Rodman,
Alison Chain's bassist Mike Star, Miss Teen Usa Carrie, and
Peniche country singer Mindy McCrady and actress Mackenzie Phillips. Heidi
(23:16):
is withdrawing from meth and spends her time alone in
a bedroom away from the rest of the cast. She
has also been completely isolated from other people while she's
been out at her compound in Nevada, and has some
trouble readjusting to being around other human beings. When Dr
Drew forces her to socialize, she ends up listening to
(23:37):
Mackenzie Phillips talk. Phillips is the former teenage star of
the recovery theme seventies sitcom One Day at a Time
and the daughter of notorious maniac John Phillips of The
Mamas and the Papas. Mackenzie Phillips is the ultimate cautionary
tale of counterculture California parents without any boundaries whatsoever. She
(24:00):
tells Heidi about getting drugs for her dad and about
doing them together, about her father shooting her up with coke.
Later that year, Mackenzie Phillips will tell the press that
her father raped her continually when she was a teen,
only stopping after she got pregnant and had an abortion.
Heidi Flice is absolutely horrified as Mackenzie Phillips talks about
(24:22):
snorting coke with her dad for the first time at
age eleven, a year before she played a teenage tomboy
crushing on Harrison Ford in George Lucas's American Graffiti. Other
people's stories and struggles in the rehab house do seem
to galvanize Heidi into facing her own addiction demons, perhaps
realizing that while she's had a pretty rough time, other
(24:45):
people have had even rougher ones. I struggle, Yeah, I
struggle with my addiction, and it's tough because I'll be
doing so well and I don't know what will make
me flip well, Heidi detoxes and thinks about her entire
life leading up to this point. Other people like Mindy
(25:08):
McCrady are having seizures from withdrawal. In general, the experience
seems to be scaring Heidi straight until Dr Drew does
something so medically unethical and blatantly sadistic as a stunt
that it could only happen on reality television. He surprises
Heidi with her abusive ex boyfriend, Tom Sizemore, who joins
(25:31):
the cast halfway through. Rather than reacting with anger or horror,
Heidi greet size more at first with love. The initial
moment when they see each other again is one of
the craziest things I've ever seen, because it's so very
clearly emotional and intense for both of them, and the
(25:53):
fact that you're watching it it feels like something you
shouldn't see because it's such an intimate moment between two
people that it feels like you're suddenly watching a cast
of Eddies movie in the middle of celebrity rehab, and
they hug each other and sort of whisper I love
you to each other and look into each other's eyes
and it's just fucking crazy. But Tom size More arrives
(26:15):
with his new girlfriend, also an addic, seeking treatment, and
things between him and Heidi turns sour again almost immediately,
and as Heidi has to face Tom size More, she
seems to lose interest in the treatment again and just
sort of sink back into depression and isolation. At the
rehab graduation ceremony, Heidie gives a very intense speech where
(26:38):
she thanks Tom size More for making her decide to
be a lesbian because he's so disgusting. Heidi does a
season of Sober House, a halfway house spinoff of celebrity rehab,
then goes back to the desert to tend to her
birds alone. Last year, Dennis had this guy who spent
(27:08):
two point six million here in a couple of months.
The first two girls got four hundred grand apiece. They
were in there for four days, like old war horse.
They've been around forever. And I was like, good for them,
there's a lot of money. And Dennis said, Heidi, that
guy isn't different from you or me. He just wants
to spend his money having fun. And his family wants
(27:31):
to going to the church. And then some religious judge
put an injunction on his money because they wanted going
to the church. But remember and Nichol Smith and her
sugar daddy in the chair. He wants to go out
with this blonde hair, big tittied girl, and his stuffy,
obnoxious kids want the money. Those kids are fighting over
(27:51):
his money. Why didn't they just go earn their own.
He wanted to go out with this girl and her
tits and do things he's never done be for and
these stuffy, snobby kids are fighting. It's like, let him
do what he wants. Heidi and Dennis Hoff are briefly engaged,
(28:15):
possibly just for publicity. Heidi's dream of opening a stud
ranch never comes to fruition, but another woman named Bobby
Davis does, opening The Shady Lady. As male prostitution is
legalized for the first time ever. The Shady Lady ends
up being a bust, however, not necessarily because women don't
(28:36):
want to buy sex, but more because they don't necessarily
want to drive all the way out to Farmer Station,
Nevada to buy it. It remains open as a bed
and breakfast called the Shady Lady Ranch, but you can
no longer buy sex there. At the start of Heidi
is preparing to enter the Celebrity Big Brother House in
(28:56):
the UK when she gets the news that her brother
Jason Flice has drowned. Forty one year old Jason and
thirty two year old Jesse Flice. We're swimming in Hawaii
when Jason was swept out by a strong tide. A
surfer rescued Jesse Flice, but Jason drowned. Forty four year
(29:17):
old Heidi Flice enters the Celebrity Big Brother House on
January three, missing her brother's funeral. I put a billion
(29:39):
dollars in the studios pockets. I put half a billion
dollars in Chuck's pocket. So this is the freaking thanks
I get. If people want me to succeed, they should
find the most comfortable chair in their freaking house, lean back,
open a beer and watched the show because it's about
to get really narrowly. Charlie Sheen Charlie Sheen is arrested
(30:07):
in a domestic violence dispute with his third wife, Brooke Muller.
He allegedly threatens her on Christmas Day in Aspen, and
she calls while the underwear company Haynes dumps him as
a spokesman. CBS stands behind Sheen and says it's business
as usual on the Two and a half Men set. However,
a potential felony rap for Sheen does have the potential
(30:30):
to affect Two and a half Men, which, as we said,
is a number one rated huge hit, pulling in fifteen
million viewers. CBS and executive producer Chuck Laurie declined to comment.
Sheen is headed to court over serious charges, so Laurie
and CBS quietly start weighing their options regarding Sheen's long,
(30:52):
expensive deal and the future of the show. Lorie and
Sheen finally get into a public feud after Sheen calls
Laurie a quote little maggot and refers to him as
Hi m Levine in what some call an anti Semitic comment,
Laurie shuts down production for the rest of the season.
(31:14):
Sheen retaliates in the media, these guys are a couple
of a Nazis and just blatant hypocrites. They do not
practice what they preach. It's so transparent and so say
CBS fire Charlie Sheen and replace him with Ashton Kutcher.
(31:38):
Heidie makes a television special for Animal Planet called Heidi
Flice Prostitutes to parents about Flice and her bird sanctuary
from a Cause in Nevada. Charlie Sheen begins a tour
called My Violent Torpedo of Truth slash Defeat is Not
an Option. The same year, he is a host at
the annual gathering of the jug Bellows. Gingerlyn Allen auctions
(32:04):
off some of the keepsakes from her relationship with Charlie Sheen.
She says she hasn't seen him in fifteen years, but
she still wishes him well. We all have demons, we
all fight them. We fall down, we get back up.
I've done it. Everyone I know has done it. It
seems to me, without knowing any details, that right now
(32:26):
Charlie is going to take a little different course. Hopefully
he'll rise again. He'll be like the Phoenix. Gingerlyn Allen.
Adult film star Dennis hoff is accused of sexually assaulting
(32:50):
a woman at the Love Ranch. Mindy McCrady, one of
Heidi's Celebrity Rehab castmates, commits suicide. Dr Drew continues to
defend Celebrity Rehab and insist the show, which ended Forever,
was not exploitative of the incredibly fragile drug users that
(33:11):
put on display. July, at the age of eighty, Dr
Paul Flice dies at his home. He had been recovering
from a recent bicycle accident. Jesse Flice heard his father
(33:32):
having some trouble breathing in his bed, and by the
time paramedics arrived, he was dead. November six, Heidi's defense lawyer,
Anthony Brooklyer, hangs himself at his Century City home at
the age of seventy. A year earlier, one of his sons,
(33:54):
also named Anthony Brooklyer, had also committed suicide by hanging.
Brook Layer had been struggling with the loss of his son.
(34:17):
At age ten, I started working at the local dairy
queen sweeping the parking lot, and the manager told me
I was the best parking lot sweeper he'd ever seen,
but put most of my money into pinball machines. And
that's when I first became aware of the connection between
money and pleasure. If you had money, you had a
good time. If not, you didn't. Dennis Off, entrepreneur. Inspired
(34:42):
by Donald Trump's presidential victory, Dennis Hoff, the owner of
legal brothel The Love Ranch, decides to run for office.
Half credits Trump with inspiring him to switch from his
former Libertarian Party affiliation to run as a GOP candidate.
We're both famous and infamous. We're both high profile, we're
(35:04):
both celebrities, were both successful businessmen. We both have reality
television shows, we both have written books. We're both rich
and we can't be bought. There's a lot of similarities,
and we're doing it for the right reasons. His opponent says,
Dennis Hoff is not even a real Republican. He just
(35:25):
uses whatever is happening politically to promote business at the
Love Ranch. He works both sides of the aisle for
the Almighty Dollar. For example, he once did a Hookers
for Hillary promotion. After running as the Trump from Perump,
Dennis Hoff wins the Republican primary for the Nevada State Legislature.
(35:46):
He celebrates with Heidi in Pera, and Heidi wears a
vote Hoff shirt. In a June seven Hollywood Reporter interview
with Heidi on the anniversary of her arrest, hid Flace
continues to evade simple classifications of good and bad. She
seems to replicate some of her dad's more outrap pseudo
(36:09):
scientific medical views with a comment about aids being less
deadly than asthma now that there's medication for it, and
she uses certain outdated terms for trans women while discussing
the idea of opening a trans staffed brothel in per Ump.
She has mixed on the Me Too movement, and when
one of her ex boyfriends alleged assault on an eleven
(36:31):
year old girl has brought up, she says, if it's true,
he should be castrated. She is neither a conventional California
liberal nor a full on reactionary libertarian. She says that
the Black Book or Red Gucci planner showed up on eBay,
and she called to have it taken down. The book
had been stolen by some people who were also trying
(36:52):
to latch onto Stormy Daniels, the porn star who had
a sexual relationship with Donald Trump. When the reporter asks
if Heidi's has the book herself, she says no, then
changes her answer to kind of, and then asks why
it matters at all? I don't know. Actually, it was
(37:12):
just something that seemed very private and personal. It was
no one else's business. That's just how I feel about
it today and how I always felt. I was offered
a lot of money to sell that book, and there
were times when I really needed that money, but that
was never something that I would do. October of Dennis
(37:38):
Hoff wins his election. He spends the weekend partying at
the Love Ranch for several days straight to celebrate his win,
and then he was totally stiff, and I said, honey,
we have a problem here round. Jeremy half drops down
(38:00):
at age seventy two during his election victory bender at
the Love Ranch and is found by his friend, the
porn star and serial rapist Ron Jeremy. Heidi is shaken
up by Haff's death, as are the Love Ranches, Sex workers.
Everyone is very confused about what's going to happen with
a dead guy being in office. You want to do
(38:23):
the right thing with money inherited from your parents. I
will not disrespect my father. Look at what I already
did to him. He worked hard and I was a madam.
Time continues to pass and Heidi learns about a new
kind of money making scheme, cryptocurrency. But she's out of
(38:45):
her depth, and even Heidi flies can get scammed. She
gets fleeced in a bitcoin scammed by a former friend
named Elizabeth Keating, who worked for her for years and
talked her into going in on some Bitcoin that she
said would help Flice fund her bird sanction arry. So
Heidi bought four hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoin at
six hundred dollars a coin, and it rose towars a coin,
(39:10):
at which point Keating locked her out of the account
and sold the money. Heidi says it's morally despicable to
steal the money from her and her birds. She sues
Keating for four million dollars after tracking her down and
having her served with a summons in a flower delivery.
I've known Steve Ban since I was twenty one, and
(39:30):
we talked on the phone twice a day every day.
We were really close. In your twenties your lovers with everyone,
and then in your thirties you become friends. I snort
meth like I'm drinking a cup of coffee. I don't
stay up all night doing rails. I have birds study
in the morning. Heidi is quoted in The New York
(39:55):
Post about the suicide of her friend Steve Byng, who
jumped to his death from the roof of his Cheery
City high rise. Steve Being inherited six million dollars from
his grandfather, real estate developer Leo Espying, at the age
of eighteen. Heidi says that Being strung her along with
extravagant promises of money for her bird sanctuary. He was
(40:16):
going to set her up with a new space in
Palm Springs where she could live with the birds in comfort.
She also really needed the money after losing her inheritance
from her father in the bitcoin scam. Heidi thinks the
reports of Steve Being only having three hundred thousand dollars
when he killed himself are false. She knows for a
(40:36):
fact that he recently had twenty million, although being is
known for spending his inheritance compulsively on drugs and sex workers.
He hires a lot of trans women who are sex
workers and often pays for their surgeries. He's also an
investor in things like the Clinton Foundation and the Polar Express.
(40:57):
After his death, there are immediate rumors that he was suicided,
as he was a friend of Jeffrey Epstein's. Heidi is
sad about her friend dying, but also about his lifelong
promises to give her money. Vanishing into smoke, Heidi says
she's been celibate for five years. All she cares about
(41:17):
now is the birds. When Heidi World returns, what happened
to everyone in Heidi World? Welcome back to Heidi World
(41:56):
the present. Everybody's reclusive. When you make a certain amount
of money, especially if you've had a tough life, you
try to fortify yourself with your friends and kind of
keep the world out. I used to date all young girls,
and then it was like I could be your grandfather.
What am I doing? John Peters Film producer John Peters
(42:22):
paid out three point three million dollars in a sexual
harassment suit in in January. He married Pamela Anderson, then
got divorced, with Anderson claiming the marriage was never real
because papers were not filed. He was recently portrayed by
Bradley Cooper in Paul Thomas Anderson's Licorice Pizza. When I
(42:42):
profiled a Lot of Time for a magazine, she said
that she didn't know that much about the real John
Peters and that the movie character might be an exaggeration,
to which I said, oh no, it's a documentary that's
exactly what John Peters is like. Robert Evans died at
the age of eighteen line in Beverly Hills, California. Evans,
(43:04):
a New York Russian jew who came out West to
act and then started producing films in the early sixties,
was a self made legend who loved telling people about it.
He was convicted of cocaine trafficking in nine eighty, convicted
of making Chinatown sequel The Two Jake's In, and called
to the stand in the Cotton Club murder trial in
(43:28):
his autobiography, The Kids Stays In. The Picture came out
in and was adapted into a successful documentary of the
same name in two thousand two that furnished evans legend
as producer of films like The Godfather. Evans was married
seven times but died a bachelor. His last film credit
(43:49):
as a producer while living was How to Lose a
Guy in Ten Days, one last hit for the Ultimate
Hollywood Hustler. In July of teen, Paramount decided not to
renew their contract with Robert Evans Productions, a deal that
he'd had there since nineteen four. Evans died in October
(44:11):
of nineteen, but, like Don Simpson, due to Reboot Culture,
Robert Evans IMDb continues to accumulate credits as he executive
produces from beyond the Grave. Yvonne Nage moved into softcore
and hardcore porn after his CD ROM venture fizzled, directing
(44:33):
titles like Trailer Trash, Terry with Terry Starr, All Nude
Nikki with Nicky Nova, and Izzy Sleeves. His casting couch
Cuti's He makes a porno called Wild Desire with the
quote most Downloaded woman on the Internet. Danny ash von
Nage dies in he receives a postumous executive producer credit
(45:00):
on a movie called Hitchhiker Massacre starring Drew Barrymore's half
brother John Blythe Barrymore and David Carradine's daughter, Callista Carradine,
Adult Video News Hall of Famer, an Original Vivid Videos
contract star Vivid Girl. Ginger Lynn Allen continues to act
in horror films like Twies, Slash, Laurette Party, and the
(45:22):
upcoming Pig Killer. Well. Her adult scenes are rereleased in
compilations like My Mom Is a Lesbian and the ongoing
I Want to Come Inside Your Mom series. After her
relationship with Charlie Sheen ended, Ginger Lynn Allen had a
son with Corn producer Stephen Hirsch. Heidie's cousin, Mike Fwice,
(45:43):
creator of The Bachelor, is accused of domestic assault and
takes a public step back from The Bachelor franchise, which
continues to be one of the most popular shows on television.
In Alexandra Dattig gets engaged to fellow Wing Media rising
star Larry Elder. After an eighteen month courtship, she moved
(46:05):
in with him and gets a tattoo that says Larry's
Girl at his request. She says that she was working
as more or less a personal assistant, helping himself produce
his streaming radio show from home, but wasn't paid a salary.
The engagement ended acrimoniously. Later that year, Elder was the
right wing candidate during the attempt to recall California Democratic
(46:29):
Governor Gavin Newsom, at which point Alexandra Daddig spoke up
during his campaign to allege that Larry Elder had once
threatened her by showing her his gun during an argument.
Daddy also had her own campaign to recall l A
Mayor Eric Garcetti, the son of Gil Garcetti, over l
A's escalating homelessness crisis. She started an online petition to
(46:52):
gather the signatures to recall Garcetti. And you may know
about how easy it is to trigger a recall vote
in California, because it's been happening instantly since the recall
of Great Davis that got California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. Jodie
Baby Doll Gibson aka Sasha of the Valley dies in
January of two in Yucca Valley. The other players, like
(47:19):
Madame alex were all working with the l A p D,
giving lists of their clients on a weekly basis. Heidi
wouldn't play the game. She broke all the rules. She
kind of did it for fun. Which was why she
was so successful. Nick Broomfield. Nick Broomfield most recently put
(47:44):
out a documentary called Last Man Standing, Suge Knight and
the Murders of Biggie and Tupac, after other documentaries like
Leonard and Marianne about the relationship between Leonard Cohen and
his lover and mused Maryanne Illen and Whitney Houston. Can
I Be Me? Which is really lead depressing but really
good and I recommend James Cohn is on Twitter. Tom
(48:07):
Sizemore was in Twin Peaks The Return. He works seemingly
constantly in B movies, and some upcoming projects from his
IMDb include Dark Karma, Eat Lead, and Father's Day. In seventeen,
it was revealed that he had been kicked off the
set of a movie in two thousand three for allegedly
molesting an eleven year old girl, which he denied doing.
(48:29):
In En, he was arrested in Burbank for possessing quote
various illegal narcotics. Charlie Sheen came out as an anti
vaxer during his marriage to Denise Richards, and cited their
differences in views on the subject as one of the
reasons for the split. This means Denise Richards is pro vaccine.
Good for you, Denise, We love your work. In Charlie,
(48:53):
Sheen was living with a twenty four year old adult
actress named Bree Olson and a twenty four year old
model and graphic designer named Natalie ken Lee, and he
referred to the two girls as his goddesses. They both
moved out in the next two months. Sheen revealed in
that he was HIV positive and on the cocktail, and
(49:13):
then he went public because he was being extorted for
several years by a group threatening to reveal his HIV
positive status. In Sten, he went on The Doctor Oz
Show and said he'd gone off his HIV meds and
was seeking alternative treatment in Mexico from an Australian quack
doctor named Sam Chachua. In Charlie, Sheen also came under
(49:36):
investigation by the l a p D for threatening to
kill his fiance Scotine Ross, a former adult star who
went by the stage name Brett Rossi. In Seen, he
was sued by an unnamed ex girlfriend for knowingly exposing
her to HIV without telling her. On the acting side,
he had a TBS sitcom called Anger Management that started
(49:58):
in the year after he crashed his two and a
half men gig. Most recently, she and was on Instagram
promoting a podcast slash pilot that he made with entourages
Doug Ellen called ramble On. It is I think a
podcast that's the spinoff of Doug Ellen's podcast Victory about Entourage,
but also a backdoor TV pilot because stars they're just
(50:21):
like us. Ramble On the TV show pilot stars Charlie
Sheen as himself, alongside E from Entourage who I won't
dignify with his government name, and Kevin Dillon as themselves,
plus veteran character actor John c McGinley who was in
Platoon with Charlie Sheen and then cameo appearances from people
(50:42):
like Martin Sheen, Mark Cuban, and Jamie Lynn Siegler. IMDb
says it's a show about established show biz folks and newcomers,
and it appears to mostly take place at the Smokehouse
Restaurant in Burbank, which is an old school place that
I obviously love from which for l A is like
a million years old, and it is a show biz
(51:04):
hangout because it's right across from where a lot of
television shoots Charlie also has a website www. Dot sheenyus
dot com. At the time, what was going on in
my house hanging around girls, just googling, around, playing in
the pool. It really seemed like a time of innocence,
(51:25):
like a six sorority club. As we reach the city
limits of Heidi World, I've been thinking a lot about
what drew me to the story of Heidi Flace in
the first place. I did not set out to make
this podcast autobiographical, but it ended up being that way
because it turns out that I clearly always identified in
(51:46):
some way with Heidi Flace as a frizzy haired, self
conscious Jewish girl from Los Angeles, eager to make a
name for herself in a city where her name didn't
mean anything to anyone. Yet. The sexual hypocrisy on display
in the Heidi Fly story also made a big lasting
impression on me because it revealed something about society that
(52:07):
I really wanted to reject as being true, which is
that it's deeply misogynistic on a core level. Other events
since the Heidi Flight's trial have only reinforced the way
in which womanhood, sexuality, and spectacle are weaponized to send
messages about women who transgress traditional roles or try to
benefit off their own sexuality in any way. And for
(52:30):
the most recent example of this, I mean check out
the coverage of the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
I also appreciate that Heidi Flights just is who she is.
She's not a perfect role model or spoke person, and
she doesn't ever try to be. But she is still alive,
still talking and still making jokes. She feels unkillable in
(52:53):
some way, and well, it may not be a flawless victory,
it still feels like a little bit of hope, a
shot against the mainstream narrative that sex workers always die
or terrible things always happened to them. She's allegedly still
a drug user and very open about that. And another
thing that making this podcast really made me think deeply
about is addiction and the way addiction is treated in
(53:17):
American society. A lot of the people in this story
struggle with addiction throughout their lives, and it's clearly passed
on genetically in families without excusing any of the abuse
committed by the many, many abuse of men in Heidi World.
I found myself coming away with a view of these
alpha males that was more complex than I expected. Addiction
(53:40):
fucking sucks and it ravages people, and I feel bad
for anyone who struggles with themselves. I did not go
into Hidi World expecting to come out of it like Wow.
Charlie Sheen sure has a lot of pathos to him.
But I also vividly remember during the Tiger Blood era thinking, man,
this guy really needs to not be on camera right now.
(54:03):
He is clearly not well, and everyone who is letting
him be on camera is complicit. Making Heidi World also
just got me interrogating why I'm drawn to stories like
this and drawn personally to your John Peters types like Heidi.
I love charismatic talkers in Hollywood alpha males, which made
(54:24):
me realize on some level, I must want to be
a Hollywood alpha male. Thinking about how to drop people
in while you're talking to them and get them absorbed
enough to keep listening to you is something I also
thought about, obviously, making a ten episode podcast where I'm
talking a lot. I hope that resurfacing the Heidi Fly
story with this podcast will inspire people to get involved
(54:47):
with sex workers rights and the laws around them. Sex
work is both more visible and under more threat than ever,
and groups like Sex Workers Outreach Project USA are doing
great work around these is years. Here in Los Angeles,
strippers from a club in my hometown of North Hollywood
in the San Fernando Valley called Star Garden are striking
(55:09):
against work conditions where management allowed them to be groped
by customers against their will without any punishment. The striking
North Hollywood Strippers recently voted to unionize, and you can
follow them on Twitter at strip Strike No How and
follow their sister organization, Strippers United at Strippers Unite on
Twitter and let sex workers themselves tell you what kind
(55:32):
of material and online support they actually need. People think
I sat back and made money off someone else, and
that's not true at all. As far as exploiting women,
women are exploited in the world, people are exploited. I
(55:52):
was not exploiting them. The girls who met me did
very very well. These people sewing downtown that is exploitation.
The street phip that is exploitation. And might be a hypocrite,
but I always thought that I was trying to do
the right thing. Thanks everyone for joining me your host
(56:14):
Molly Lambert on this journey through weird California. History from
the nineties seventies up until now, and a story about
the importance of decriminalizing and de sigmatizing sex work. And
as for Heidi Flice, she has a YouTube channel where
she posts videos of her macaws and screeds against the
(56:34):
woman that she's mad at about the bitcoin scam. She's
on Instagram too, and Heidi, if you're listening, by any chance,
call me and now for and credits. Heidi World would
(57:02):
never have been possible without the incredible production team of
Anna host me, A, Becca Ramos, and Tricia mccarge. Thanks
to Rory Gegan, who beautifully edited and sound designed and
insanely complicated thing special. Thanks to Chris Chang, who shot
and edited the Heidi World promo trailer that we made
with Annie Hamilton's to announce the show. Chris and Annie
(57:25):
were the first two people to volunteer their time for
this project, and I'm really grateful for them. Chris also
wrote the sick ass song that's in the promo trailer.
And thanks to Bethan Macaluso, who worked with me on
the scripts and helped shape this into something that anyone
else could ever listen to. And now, because it is
my show, and because I think it's funny, which is
what this entire show is really about. Is pleasing me personally.
(57:50):
I am going to read the entire cast list like
it's movie credits. A huge thank you to everyone who
agreed to voice act for me, many of whom had
never done it before, and special thanks to Annie Hamilton's
and Max Sylvestry for bringing real acting chops to the
leads and making this world grounded so that anything else
could make sense. Heidi World, an I Heart Radio production.
(58:16):
Annie Hamilton's as Heidi Flice, Max Sylvestry as Yvonne Nag,
Karen Tompson as Madam Alex, Glenn Lambert as Dr Paul Flice,
Sarah Sherman as Shane of Flice, Audrey Kaufman as Kim Flice,
Jack O'Brien as Jesse Flice, on a host n as
(58:40):
alyssa Ash Flice, Jamie Loftus as Victoria Sellers, Molly Young
as Alexandra Datig, John Daily as John Peters, Miles Clee
as Don Simpson, Jason Stewart as Charlie Sheen, Chris Black
as Billie Idol, Robert Evans as Robert Evans, Corina Longworth
(59:06):
as Julia Phillips, Dylan Jalula as Angelica Houston, Brodie Gupta
as Melanie Griffiths, Hunter Harris as Rita Wilson, Judd Nick
Mayard as Sean Hubler, Emily Yoshida as Leanne, Isabel Batty
(59:27):
as Maryland, Joel Monique as Brandy McClain, Rachel Rabbit White
as Julie Conist, Sarah C. Johnson as Simone Former Alex Girl,
Alex Pappadimis as defense attorney Anthony Brooklyar, Andrew T as
Detective Sammy Lee The Second, Jason concepts Ion as Prosecutor
(59:51):
Alan Carter, Julianne Smilinsky as Norma, Jean Alma Dovar, Noemi
Fry as Sherry Land Saying, Miles Gray as James Cohn,
Harry Eskin as Bernie Cornfeld, Tess Lynch as Elaine Young,
Kate Raft as Michelle Peiffer, Joan Ford as Amy Holden, Jones,
(01:00:15):
lies A Die as Whoopie Goldberg, Joe Mandy as Frank
Sinatra Jr. Lindsay Weber as Judge Judith al Champagne Eva
Anderson as Ava Gabor, Aidan Rata as Meg Ryan, Liz
fran Sack as Sharon Stone, Josh Losy as Bob crow,
(01:00:39):
Felix Biederman as Tom Sizemore, Sirie Dahl as Sheila Mactrowski,
Young Chomsky as Elliott Mints, Andrew de Young as Andy Sedaris,
Dan Longino as Vince Conti, Dean Fleischer Camp as Paul McCarthy,
Richard Kelly as Robert Altman, Yasi Salik as Ginger Lynn Allen,
(01:01:05):
Holly Anderson as Share, John Levin seen as Mayor, Richard Reardon,
Ryan Johnson as Adrian Lyne Brace Belden as JJ the
King of Beeper's, Gracie Hadland as Liz Smith, Jack Allison
as Anthony Pellicano, Karry O'Donnell as Mike Flice, Paul F.
(01:01:31):
Tompkins as Dennis Hoff, Bug Maine as Ron Jeremy Leslie
Lee the Third as O. J. Simpson, John Daly again
as Jay Leno, Carvel Wallace as Nick Broomfield, Ben Lambert
as Robert Evans press agent, Eloi Lugo as Billie Idol's publicist,
(01:01:53):
and Becker Ramos as Nancy Reyes. And thanks to everyone
who came along with us on this long wild ride
through Los Angeles, I'm your host, Molly Lambert signing off
one last time from Heidi World. M
Yeah, okay, everyone wants high ceilings, but how bad do
(00:38):
you want it? It's up to you how you feel,
how hard you'll work for it. Heidi Flice. Previously on
Heidi World. Heidi Flice has gone from l A's glittering
hilltop mansions to its prison downtown as a result of
her remarkable rise and fall in the nine nineties as
(01:00):
a Hollywood madam. By the two thousands, she is out
of jail and back to hustling up ways to make
money and cash in on whatever is left of her brand.
Welcome to Heidi World, Chapter ten, The Desert and Beyond.
(01:25):
Heidi moves to Perump, Nevada and to start a stud
farm and ends up starting a bird sanctuary instead. Plus
where everyone ended up. Welcome back to the final installment
of Heidi World. I'm your host, Molly Lambert. It's the
(01:48):
early two thousand's and Heidi Flice is out of prison
ready to rebuild her life from scratch. Her first stop
is the grocery store, where she treats herself to salmon
with mango salsa and buys every single flavor of Ben
and Jerry's ice cream. Every woman at the market was
(02:08):
looking at me as if I was mentally ill. Recently,
she's been CouchSurfing through her rich friends houses. Staying in
a guest room at a gated mansion in Brentwood. She
invites a journalist over to play chess with her while
she promotes her new memoir, a coffee table scrapbook style
(02:29):
tome called Pandering that retails for fifty dollars at stores
like Borders and Barnes and Noble. While she was in prison,
Heidi brushed up on her skills as a former child
chess champion and says she won every game she played.
Inside I See a check Mate, Heidi says she turned
(02:55):
down publishing deals from people who wanted her to do
a tell all because she still has no tension of
snitching on clients. Heidi, to do a book, now, you're
basically a has been and you have to dig deep
down and do some soul searching and tell it all. Instead,
(03:16):
she started her own publishing company called One Hour Entertainment
and put out the book she wanted to write. She
raised a few grand and went to the publishing trade
fair Book Expo America, where, in true Heidi fashion, she
came back with a four book deal. She started learning
the ins and outs of the publishing business. Whoever you
(03:37):
think is doing it, is doing it, and they're probably
doing it in weirder ways than you can imagine. Just
because I got caught and I sunk the ship doesn't
mean I have to take everyone down with me. At
thirty seven years old, Heidi is washed up as a
madam and aware that she could be considered unhirable for
(03:59):
virtually anything else by a lot of people. She jokes
about prison, but there is an underlying sadness. She felt
deserted when she was on the inside by everyone except
her family, who wrote her constant letters. She relapsed on
drugs almost immediately after re entering the straight world and
served a six month home detention for it pandering. Her
(04:22):
book is designed for an audience with increasingly short attention spans.
People don't read anymore. Magazine subscriptions are way down except
for Maximum Stuff and f a GM because their articles
are half an inch. To do a book now, you
have to make it very visually appealing and concise. Heidi
(04:47):
realizes that the world has changed in many ways while
she was serving out her prison term. While the trial
of Heidi Flice may have been an attempt to sweep
the sexual hypocrisy of powerful men under the rug. Like
an inappropriate boner, it always seems to spring back up.
The media sites are now set on destroying and humiliating
(05:09):
another young Jewish woman with unique sexual charisma who grew
up in Los Angeles, Monica Lewinsky. Heidi Flys thinks the
Kenneth Star report on Lewinsky's affair with President Bill Clinton
shifted the cultural needle in ways she could have never imagined,
making things like blow jobs, rim jobs, and sexually pleasuring
(05:29):
a woman with a cigar before biting down on it
and saying tastes good into national news. He made the
conversation different. He brought the subject of oral copulation to
the dinner table after pandering. Heidi wants to put out
(05:49):
other books, including a book about Tupac Shakur, a tell
all about Beverly Hills tutors, and a collection by photographer
Evan clan for a photos of prostitutes and strippers in Florida.
A made for TV Heidi Flics biopic is announced by
the USA Network. It will start Jamie Lynn Siegler, best
(06:11):
known for playing Meato soprano on the sopranos. As the
Hollywood Madam, Heidi Flice is a public figure, which means
the story is public domain. In the meantime, a humbold
and chastened Heidi will take money however she can get it.
She appears as a judge at the Venice Beach semifinals
of the l As Sexiest Competition, a promotion for the
(06:33):
Erotica l A convention taking place that weekend. Erotica l
A is actively trying to make adult conventions more female
and couples friendly, part of a larger movement of sex
positivity that encourages women to buy their own sex toys.
The Hustler Store in Hollywood may not have the feminist
credentials of San Francisco's pioneering sex toy shop Good Vibrations,
(06:58):
but it's part of it overall shift, spurred also by
HBO's hit show Sex in the City, towards women owning
their sexuality and also towards commodifying this type of sexuality,
telling women that they need a certain vibrator or expensive
brand of lingerie to feel truly sexy and empowered. It's
a twist on the yuppie ethos that Heidi profited off
(07:21):
of more money equals better than It's called third wave feminism,
and it encourages women to think of themselves as powerful
consumers like men. This puts them in the position to
exploit other less powerful women, which is how we get
to the concept of the girl boss. Heidi Flice opens
(07:42):
a new boutique on Hollywood Boulevard called Hollywood Madam, a
last ditch attempt to relaunch the Heidi were brand, but
she is in the valley of her popularity. She is
considered a dealist or now, but she still has a
dream of getting her valuation back up. The shop is
at sixty Hollywood Boulevard and the prices have gone up
(08:06):
with the times. Sweatpants are a hundred and fifty dollars
and there are corsets that cost nearly four hundred dollars.
The window display at Hollywood Madam is a nude mannequin
reclining in an antique bathtubs folk sets as bubbles float
down from a bubble machine in the ceiling. One of
(08:26):
Heide's innovations for the new store is to equip one
dressing room with a webcam and offer a thirty percent
discount to any customers who allow themselves to be live
streamed on her pay website trying on clothes in the
dressing room. Once again, Heidi was right. Hollywood Boulevard did
start to gentrify again soon after that. Unbelievably, the name
(08:51):
Heidi Flice is still visible on the storefront gate at
six Hollywood Boulevard as of this recording. I was completely
sure it was going to get scrubbed and flipped at
some point while I was making this podcast, but as
of today, it's still there. One thing I love about
Hollywood Boulevard, which is to me the capital of Los Angeles,
(09:14):
is that, like New York's Times Square, you can gentrify
and flip and try to make it upscale as much
as you want, but you can never wash the decades
of vomit, glitter and piss off the street, because that's
what Hollywood is, and we love it. In two thousand five,
(09:35):
Heidi moves down the Hollywood Corridor to Coinga Boulevard and
opens a place called a Little Shop of Sex next
to the trendy new Club Beauty Bar. It's the same
inventory from the Hollywood Madam Store, with a new investment
from her friend Jessica Steindorf. Steindorf is an actress from
Malibu who was in the NBC show Las Vegas. Her
(09:56):
father is a producer named Scott Steindorff, who produced Las
Vegas and more recently Station eleven. Jessica Steindorff became a
manager and producer, but she resurfaced in the news when
her Prius was one of the four cars Caitlyn Jenner
plowed into in the multi car crash on the Pacific
Coast Highway in Malibu, where Jenner killed sixty nine year
(10:17):
old Kim how Jenner settled with Steindorff and the other
survivors of the crash in court. Now. In the distant past,
especially in the Old West, Madam's often became locally revered.
The mass genocide of the indigenous people of the Western
States was carried out by American men, and when those
(10:39):
men began illegally occupying that land, the first thing they
demanded was access to women. Brothels were often the first
things built in Western settlements, and you can see this
in fictionalized portrayals like Deadwood or Robert Altman's McCabe and
Mrs Miller. Madam's were powerbrokers and considered essential to a
(10:59):
town success. One of early San Francisco's most famous madam's,
Sally Stanford, ran a notorious brothel on nob Hill, where
San Francisco Chronicle journalist Herb Kane joked that the United
Nations was founded because of how many of its members
were clients at Sally's. It wasn't even really a joke,
(11:20):
because apparently international relations were often actually negotiated in the
San Francisco brothel's lobby area. After the brothel was rated
in ninetift, Sally Stanford became a beloved local figure in
the Bay Area, and she actually became mayor of sas Alito, California,
at the age of seventy two after their media scandals
(11:43):
died down. Madam's do sometimes become beloved local figures symbolic
of an earlier, less tame era in a city, But
despite the endorsement of the Hollywood Business Bureau, Heidi stores
do not make it. But speaking of the wild best,
there is a place even more lawless than Los Angeles,
(12:04):
more blatantly sex selling, more corrupt, and more geared towards
conjuring luxurious fantasies out of than air that place is
the state of Nevada. Two thousand five, Heidi has a
(12:28):
new business venture. It's an ambitious new vision. She is
going to open a brothel where women can be serviced
by male studs. The plan is to charge two hundred
and fifty dollars an hour at Heidi stud Farm, which
will be located in the Great State of Nevada, where
prostitution is legal, but only in license brothels in towns
(12:50):
under a certain population, which excludes Las Vegas. Women are
more independent these days. They make more money and it's
hard to meet people like you. Wouldn't believe the number
of women who have told me, Heidi, if you do this,
I will be the first in line. I mean, relationships
are harder than dieting, you know what I mean. Heidi
(13:14):
stud Farm will operate in Crystal, Nevada. She moves to
the town of par Ump, sixty three miles northwest of
Las Vegas, and gets into business with Dennis Hoff, a
publicity loving businessman who runs a brothel in Crystal called
The Love Ranch. There's an HBO reality show about the
Love Ranch called cat House that airs as part of
(13:34):
HBO's adult Theme after Dark programming block which sadly Streaming
put an end to which I was sad about because
we love it. Heidi wants her stud farm to have
an old Hollywood theme with palm trees and waterfalls, just
like the classics sunset strip supper clubs. Madam Alex loved
(13:56):
It's gonna be like Leo DiCaprio and the Aviator, And
I'm going to put out a casting call for about
twenty guys. I bet I get thousands of applicants. People's
scoff at Heide's plans for the stud Farm, insisting women
wouldn't want to pay for sex at illegal brothel because
(14:17):
they are emotional creatures who aren't sexually motivated the same
way as men, to which I say, shut the fuck up.
I personally think Heidi was again ahead of her time,
and also lawmakers with this idea. A friend of mine
said she believed the reason that they didn't want to
legalize a business that would let women pay for no
strings attached sex is because it would enable women to
(14:40):
control the world. Heidi also ends up in possession of
a large amount of birds. I moved to Nevada to
get back into the sex business. I rented a house
that Unluckily for me, happened to be next door to
a retired madam who's bedridden. I want to time. She
(15:00):
ran the exotic bird department for the Tropicana Hotel, so
she had all these birds. One night, she called me
up at three in the morning saying she couldn't breathe
I went there as a helicopter was taking her away,
and as she's dying, she says, Heidi, you take care
of the birds. When Heidi World returns, what happened to
(15:29):
everyone else in Heidi World? Welcome back to Heidi World.
(16:00):
In two thousand and six, private investigator Anthony Pellicano is
indicted for wire tapping Hollywood journalists in order to scare
them out of writing stories that criticize his high profile clients.
Pelicano worked for Don Simpson as well as almost everyone
else in town. I'm an old man now and all
(16:21):
my associates are either in prison or dead. The old
days are gone forever, Anthony Pelicano, private investigator. The Anthony
Pellicano trial is the Hollywood big wig studded affair that
everybody thought The Heidi Fly's trial was going to be.
Hollywood power players like Mike Ovitz and Brad Gray are
(16:45):
witnesses on the stand, denying they paid Anthony Pelicano to
do any illegal wire taps for them or their companies.
Brad Gray even developed an HBO show with Policano about
a Hollywood private detective. Two thousand six, Dr Paul Flice
is back in the news for something unrelated to his
(17:06):
daughter Heidi. He's part of a story about a woman
named Christine Majori, whose three year old child, Eliza Jane,
died from AIDS related pneumonia. Majority is an HIV positive
AIDS skeptic who founded a group called Alive and Well
AIDS Alternatives, a nonprofit that encourages HIV positive mothers to breastfeed.
(17:30):
She is the author of a book called What If
Everything You thought you knew about AIDS was wrong. Paul
Flice is accused of not insisting to Majory that she
stopped breastfeeding her child and of not treating the child
with the proper anti viral therapy. You will remember all
the way back from episode one that Dr Flice was
(17:51):
a strong proponent of wet nursing and breastfeeding. Wet nursing
fell out of favor eventually, even among the new ageless,
fearless moms who or his clientele. Because the AIDS epidemic
made it more dangerous to swap fluids with other people,
including breast milk, a medical board seeks to revoke his license,
citing his treatment of another HIV positive child. Slice admits
(18:15):
he's somewhat of a skeptic about whether HIV causes AIDS,
saying he could be convinced either way. What is clear
is that doctor Flice allows AID skeptics and vaccine skeptics
to make their own decisions under his care, which puts
their children at risk. Now, it turns out that doctor
Paul Flice was not a straight up anti vaxer himself.
(18:39):
One of my friends who had him as her doctor,
told me that her mother was a vaccine skeptic who
didn't want to vaccinate her, and that doctor Flice actually
convinced her mother that they should just go ahead with
the vaccination and that's the reason why my friend is
vaccinated today. She also said that her mother was one
of Paul's many supporters who wrote into the Core to
(19:00):
support him during the I R S trial. Dr Flice
thought that patients should be allowed to decide for themselves,
which gets complicated when children who can't advocate for themselves
yet are involved and put at risk. He gave a
not great quote to The l A Times saying that
he was shocked when Eliza Jane died because he had
(19:20):
never seen her look ill. Christine Majori is not charged
with the death of her daughter. Meanwhile, Charlie Sheen and
Denise Richards have divorced. He debuts a children's clothing line
called Sheen Kids with a Z. Two thousand seven, Heidi
runs into some legal issues trying to open the brothel.
(19:42):
A lot of people are very opposed to the idea
of male prostitution. She whips up a plan B and
opens a laundromat in par Ump called Dirty Laundry Instead. Yeah,
instead of Heidi's stud Farm, I am going to open
Heidi's SuDS fun. Her ex boyfriend Tom Sizemore pays a
(20:07):
settlement in Heidi's case against him. He also gets busted
for meth violating the terms of his probation, also put
on probation. Dr Paul Flice his medical license is put
on probation for his involvement with the Christine Majori case.
Two thousand eight, Heidi appears on Nightline, offering her thoughts
(20:30):
on the Elliot Spitzer sex scandal. She manages to get
in a few plugs for the Love Ranch on air.
While she's at it. A new documentary about her called
Heidi Flice The Would Be Madam of Crystal airs on
HBO following Heidi's attempts to open the stud Ranch. The
documentary shows Heidi, now forty two years old, living alone
(20:53):
in the desert with her birds. She is very protective
of the birds, maccaus with yellow eyes. She has a
high functioning drug addict who uses math, valium and vic
it in, but she also goes through spurts of trying
to get sober. She has bought ten acres of land
in the desert. I'm going to build my Hearst castle.
(21:21):
Heidi gets busted in Nevada during a traffic stop for meth.
This marks another moment of shift. She wants to turn
her life around and where better to get clean then
on reality television two thousand nine, Celebrity Rehab. That was
(21:52):
the best show I've done in my life. I was
freaked out when I saw what I looked like like.
I was in the desert doing drugs and I realized
first of all that my problem was that bad. You think, oh,
I'll just stop whenever I want to. I thought I
would stop before the show, but I couldn't. I thought
I'll go when my problem is not that bad. When
when they called me to do it, I thought, hell no,
(22:13):
who wants to withdraw on TV? But then I was
so glad. It was so humiliating and so embarrassing like it.
It did make me change big time. Heidi appears on
the VH one reality show Celebrity Rehab for its third season.
(22:34):
Celebrity Rehab is a show from gigantic quack doctor Drew Pinsky.
On Celebrity Rehab, a bunch of celebrities are put in
a rehab house together and forced to withdraw and do
group therapy in front of cameras. It is one of
the most fucked up things I have ever seen, and
Dr Drew keeps insisting throughout that it's educational to show
(22:55):
viewers what rehab is really like. At the Pasadena Recovery Center,
Heidi checks in with her fellow castmates, basketball star Dennis Rodman,
Alison Chain's bassist Mike Star, Miss Teen Usa Carrie, and
Peniche country singer Mindy McCrady and actress Mackenzie Phillips. Heidi
(23:16):
is withdrawing from meth and spends her time alone in
a bedroom away from the rest of the cast. She
has also been completely isolated from other people while she's
been out at her compound in Nevada, and has some
trouble readjusting to being around other human beings. When Dr
Drew forces her to socialize, she ends up listening to
(23:37):
Mackenzie Phillips talk. Phillips is the former teenage star of
the recovery theme seventies sitcom One Day at a Time
and the daughter of notorious maniac John Phillips of The
Mamas and the Papas. Mackenzie Phillips is the ultimate cautionary
tale of counterculture California parents without any boundaries whatsoever. She
(24:00):
tells Heidi about getting drugs for her dad and about
doing them together, about her father shooting her up with coke.
Later that year, Mackenzie Phillips will tell the press that
her father raped her continually when she was a teen,
only stopping after she got pregnant and had an abortion.
Heidi Flice is absolutely horrified as Mackenzie Phillips talks about
(24:22):
snorting coke with her dad for the first time at
age eleven, a year before she played a teenage tomboy
crushing on Harrison Ford in George Lucas's American Graffiti. Other
people's stories and struggles in the rehab house do seem
to galvanize Heidi into facing her own addiction demons, perhaps
realizing that while she's had a pretty rough time, other
(24:45):
people have had even rougher ones. I struggle, Yeah, I
struggle with my addiction, and it's tough because I'll be
doing so well and I don't know what will make
me flip well, Heidi detoxes and thinks about her entire
life leading up to this point. Other people like Mindy
(25:08):
McCrady are having seizures from withdrawal. In general, the experience
seems to be scaring Heidi straight until Dr Drew does
something so medically unethical and blatantly sadistic as a stunt
that it could only happen on reality television. He surprises
Heidi with her abusive ex boyfriend, Tom Sizemore, who joins
(25:31):
the cast halfway through. Rather than reacting with anger or horror,
Heidi greet size more at first with love. The initial
moment when they see each other again is one of
the craziest things I've ever seen, because it's so very
clearly emotional and intense for both of them, and the
(25:53):
fact that you're watching it it feels like something you
shouldn't see because it's such an intimate moment between two
people that it feels like you're suddenly watching a cast
of Eddies movie in the middle of celebrity rehab, and
they hug each other and sort of whisper I love
you to each other and look into each other's eyes
and it's just fucking crazy. But Tom size More arrives
(26:15):
with his new girlfriend, also an addic, seeking treatment, and
things between him and Heidi turns sour again almost immediately,
and as Heidi has to face Tom size More, she
seems to lose interest in the treatment again and just
sort of sink back into depression and isolation. At the
rehab graduation ceremony, Heidie gives a very intense speech where
(26:38):
she thanks Tom size More for making her decide to
be a lesbian because he's so disgusting. Heidi does a
season of Sober House, a halfway house spinoff of celebrity rehab,
then goes back to the desert to tend to her
birds alone. Last year, Dennis had this guy who spent
(27:08):
two point six million here in a couple of months.
The first two girls got four hundred grand apiece. They
were in there for four days, like old war horse.
They've been around forever. And I was like, good for them,
there's a lot of money. And Dennis said, Heidi, that
guy isn't different from you or me. He just wants
to spend his money having fun. And his family wants
(27:31):
to going to the church. And then some religious judge
put an injunction on his money because they wanted going
to the church. But remember and Nichol Smith and her
sugar daddy in the chair. He wants to go out
with this blonde hair, big tittied girl, and his stuffy,
obnoxious kids want the money. Those kids are fighting over
(27:51):
his money. Why didn't they just go earn their own.
He wanted to go out with this girl and her
tits and do things he's never done be for and
these stuffy, snobby kids are fighting. It's like, let him
do what he wants. Heidi and Dennis Hoff are briefly engaged,
(28:15):
possibly just for publicity. Heidi's dream of opening a stud
ranch never comes to fruition, but another woman named Bobby
Davis does, opening The Shady Lady. As male prostitution is
legalized for the first time ever. The Shady Lady ends
up being a bust, however, not necessarily because women don't
(28:36):
want to buy sex, but more because they don't necessarily
want to drive all the way out to Farmer Station,
Nevada to buy it. It remains open as a bed
and breakfast called the Shady Lady Ranch, but you can
no longer buy sex there. At the start of Heidi
is preparing to enter the Celebrity Big Brother House in
(28:56):
the UK when she gets the news that her brother
Jason Flice has drowned. Forty one year old Jason and
thirty two year old Jesse Flice. We're swimming in Hawaii
when Jason was swept out by a strong tide. A
surfer rescued Jesse Flice, but Jason drowned. Forty four year
(29:17):
old Heidi Flice enters the Celebrity Big Brother House on
January three, missing her brother's funeral. I put a billion
(29:39):
dollars in the studios pockets. I put half a billion
dollars in Chuck's pocket. So this is the freaking thanks
I get. If people want me to succeed, they should
find the most comfortable chair in their freaking house, lean back,
open a beer and watched the show because it's about
to get really narrowly. Charlie Sheen Charlie Sheen is arrested
(30:07):
in a domestic violence dispute with his third wife, Brooke Muller.
He allegedly threatens her on Christmas Day in Aspen, and
she calls while the underwear company Haynes dumps him as
a spokesman. CBS stands behind Sheen and says it's business
as usual on the Two and a half Men set. However,
a potential felony rap for Sheen does have the potential
(30:30):
to affect Two and a half Men, which, as we said,
is a number one rated huge hit, pulling in fifteen
million viewers. CBS and executive producer Chuck Laurie declined to comment.
Sheen is headed to court over serious charges, so Laurie
and CBS quietly start weighing their options regarding Sheen's long,
(30:52):
expensive deal and the future of the show. Lorie and
Sheen finally get into a public feud after Sheen calls
Laurie a quote little maggot and refers to him as
Hi m Levine in what some call an anti Semitic comment,
Laurie shuts down production for the rest of the season.
(31:14):
Sheen retaliates in the media, these guys are a couple
of a Nazis and just blatant hypocrites. They do not
practice what they preach. It's so transparent and so say
CBS fire Charlie Sheen and replace him with Ashton Kutcher.
(31:38):
Heidie makes a television special for Animal Planet called Heidi
Flice Prostitutes to parents about Flice and her bird sanctuary
from a Cause in Nevada. Charlie Sheen begins a tour
called My Violent Torpedo of Truth slash Defeat is Not
an Option. The same year, he is a host at
the annual gathering of the jug Bellows. Gingerlyn Allen auctions
(32:04):
off some of the keepsakes from her relationship with Charlie Sheen.
She says she hasn't seen him in fifteen years, but
she still wishes him well. We all have demons, we
all fight them. We fall down, we get back up.
I've done it. Everyone I know has done it. It
seems to me, without knowing any details, that right now
(32:26):
Charlie is going to take a little different course. Hopefully
he'll rise again. He'll be like the Phoenix. Gingerlyn Allen.
Adult film star Dennis hoff is accused of sexually assaulting
(32:50):
a woman at the Love Ranch. Mindy McCrady, one of
Heidi's Celebrity Rehab castmates, commits suicide. Dr Drew continues to
defend Celebrity Rehab and insist the show, which ended Forever,
was not exploitative of the incredibly fragile drug users that
(33:11):
put on display. July, at the age of eighty, Dr
Paul Flice dies at his home. He had been recovering
from a recent bicycle accident. Jesse Flice heard his father
(33:32):
having some trouble breathing in his bed, and by the
time paramedics arrived, he was dead. November six, Heidi's defense lawyer,
Anthony Brooklyer, hangs himself at his Century City home at
the age of seventy. A year earlier, one of his sons,
(33:54):
also named Anthony Brooklyer, had also committed suicide by hanging.
Brook Layer had been struggling with the loss of his son.
(34:17):
At age ten, I started working at the local dairy
queen sweeping the parking lot, and the manager told me
I was the best parking lot sweeper he'd ever seen,
but put most of my money into pinball machines. And
that's when I first became aware of the connection between
money and pleasure. If you had money, you had a
good time. If not, you didn't. Dennis Off, entrepreneur. Inspired
(34:42):
by Donald Trump's presidential victory, Dennis Hoff, the owner of
legal brothel The Love Ranch, decides to run for office.
Half credits Trump with inspiring him to switch from his
former Libertarian Party affiliation to run as a GOP candidate.
We're both famous and infamous. We're both high profile, we're
(35:04):
both celebrities, were both successful businessmen. We both have reality
television shows, we both have written books. We're both rich
and we can't be bought. There's a lot of similarities,
and we're doing it for the right reasons. His opponent says,
Dennis Hoff is not even a real Republican. He just
(35:25):
uses whatever is happening politically to promote business at the
Love Ranch. He works both sides of the aisle for
the Almighty Dollar. For example, he once did a Hookers
for Hillary promotion. After running as the Trump from Perump,
Dennis Hoff wins the Republican primary for the Nevada State Legislature.
(35:46):
He celebrates with Heidi in Pera, and Heidi wears a
vote Hoff shirt. In a June seven Hollywood Reporter interview
with Heidi on the anniversary of her arrest, hid Flace
continues to evade simple classifications of good and bad. She
seems to replicate some of her dad's more outrap pseudo
(36:09):
scientific medical views with a comment about aids being less
deadly than asthma now that there's medication for it, and
she uses certain outdated terms for trans women while discussing
the idea of opening a trans staffed brothel in per Ump.
She has mixed on the Me Too movement, and when
one of her ex boyfriends alleged assault on an eleven
(36:31):
year old girl has brought up, she says, if it's true,
he should be castrated. She is neither a conventional California
liberal nor a full on reactionary libertarian. She says that
the Black Book or Red Gucci planner showed up on eBay,
and she called to have it taken down. The book
had been stolen by some people who were also trying
(36:52):
to latch onto Stormy Daniels, the porn star who had
a sexual relationship with Donald Trump. When the reporter asks
if Heidi's has the book herself, she says no, then
changes her answer to kind of, and then asks why
it matters at all? I don't know. Actually, it was
(37:12):
just something that seemed very private and personal. It was
no one else's business. That's just how I feel about
it today and how I always felt. I was offered
a lot of money to sell that book, and there
were times when I really needed that money, but that
was never something that I would do. October of Dennis
(37:38):
Hoff wins his election. He spends the weekend partying at
the Love Ranch for several days straight to celebrate his win,
and then he was totally stiff, and I said, honey,
we have a problem here round. Jeremy half drops down
(38:00):
at age seventy two during his election victory bender at
the Love Ranch and is found by his friend, the
porn star and serial rapist Ron Jeremy. Heidi is shaken
up by Haff's death, as are the Love Ranches, Sex workers.
Everyone is very confused about what's going to happen with
a dead guy being in office. You want to do
(38:23):
the right thing with money inherited from your parents. I
will not disrespect my father. Look at what I already
did to him. He worked hard and I was a madam.
Time continues to pass and Heidi learns about a new
kind of money making scheme, cryptocurrency. But she's out of
(38:45):
her depth, and even Heidi flies can get scammed. She
gets fleeced in a bitcoin scammed by a former friend
named Elizabeth Keating, who worked for her for years and
talked her into going in on some Bitcoin that she
said would help Flice fund her bird sanction arry. So
Heidi bought four hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoin at
six hundred dollars a coin, and it rose towars a coin,
(39:10):
at which point Keating locked her out of the account
and sold the money. Heidi says it's morally despicable to
steal the money from her and her birds. She sues
Keating for four million dollars after tracking her down and
having her served with a summons in a flower delivery.
I've known Steve Ban since I was twenty one, and
(39:30):
we talked on the phone twice a day every day.
We were really close. In your twenties your lovers with everyone,
and then in your thirties you become friends. I snort
meth like I'm drinking a cup of coffee. I don't
stay up all night doing rails. I have birds study
in the morning. Heidi is quoted in The New York
(39:55):
Post about the suicide of her friend Steve Byng, who
jumped to his death from the roof of his Cheery
City high rise. Steve Being inherited six million dollars from
his grandfather, real estate developer Leo Espying, at the age
of eighteen. Heidi says that Being strung her along with
extravagant promises of money for her bird sanctuary. He was
(40:16):
going to set her up with a new space in
Palm Springs where she could live with the birds in comfort.
She also really needed the money after losing her inheritance
from her father in the bitcoin scam. Heidi thinks the
reports of Steve Being only having three hundred thousand dollars
when he killed himself are false. She knows for a
(40:36):
fact that he recently had twenty million, although being is
known for spending his inheritance compulsively on drugs and sex workers.
He hires a lot of trans women who are sex
workers and often pays for their surgeries. He's also an
investor in things like the Clinton Foundation and the Polar Express.
(40:57):
After his death, there are immediate rumors that he was suicided,
as he was a friend of Jeffrey Epstein's. Heidi is
sad about her friend dying, but also about his lifelong
promises to give her money. Vanishing into smoke, Heidi says
she's been celibate for five years. All she cares about
(41:17):
now is the birds. When Heidi World returns, what happened
to everyone in Heidi World? Welcome back to Heidi World
(41:56):
the present. Everybody's reclusive. When you make a certain amount
of money, especially if you've had a tough life, you
try to fortify yourself with your friends and kind of
keep the world out. I used to date all young girls,
and then it was like I could be your grandfather.
What am I doing? John Peters Film producer John Peters
(42:22):
paid out three point three million dollars in a sexual
harassment suit in in January. He married Pamela Anderson, then
got divorced, with Anderson claiming the marriage was never real
because papers were not filed. He was recently portrayed by
Bradley Cooper in Paul Thomas Anderson's Licorice Pizza. When I
(42:42):
profiled a Lot of Time for a magazine, she said
that she didn't know that much about the real John
Peters and that the movie character might be an exaggeration,
to which I said, oh no, it's a documentary that's
exactly what John Peters is like. Robert Evans died at
the age of eighteen line in Beverly Hills, California. Evans,
(43:04):
a New York Russian jew who came out West to
act and then started producing films in the early sixties,
was a self made legend who loved telling people about it.
He was convicted of cocaine trafficking in nine eighty, convicted
of making Chinatown sequel The Two Jake's In, and called
to the stand in the Cotton Club murder trial in
(43:28):
his autobiography, The Kids Stays In. The Picture came out
in and was adapted into a successful documentary of the
same name in two thousand two that furnished evans legend
as producer of films like The Godfather. Evans was married
seven times but died a bachelor. His last film credit
(43:49):
as a producer while living was How to Lose a
Guy in Ten Days, one last hit for the Ultimate
Hollywood Hustler. In July of teen, Paramount decided not to
renew their contract with Robert Evans Productions, a deal that
he'd had there since nineteen four. Evans died in October
(44:11):
of nineteen, but, like Don Simpson, due to Reboot Culture,
Robert Evans IMDb continues to accumulate credits as he executive
produces from beyond the Grave. Yvonne Nage moved into softcore
and hardcore porn after his CD ROM venture fizzled, directing
(44:33):
titles like Trailer Trash, Terry with Terry Starr, All Nude
Nikki with Nicky Nova, and Izzy Sleeves. His casting couch
Cuti's He makes a porno called Wild Desire with the
quote most Downloaded woman on the Internet. Danny ash von
Nage dies in he receives a postumous executive producer credit
(45:00):
on a movie called Hitchhiker Massacre starring Drew Barrymore's half
brother John Blythe Barrymore and David Carradine's daughter, Callista Carradine,
Adult Video News Hall of Famer, an Original Vivid Videos
contract star Vivid Girl. Ginger Lynn Allen continues to act
in horror films like Twies, Slash, Laurette Party, and the
(45:22):
upcoming Pig Killer. Well. Her adult scenes are rereleased in
compilations like My Mom Is a Lesbian and the ongoing
I Want to Come Inside Your Mom series. After her
relationship with Charlie Sheen ended, Ginger Lynn Allen had a
son with Corn producer Stephen Hirsch. Heidie's cousin, Mike Fwice,
(45:43):
creator of The Bachelor, is accused of domestic assault and
takes a public step back from The Bachelor franchise, which
continues to be one of the most popular shows on television.
In Alexandra Dattig gets engaged to fellow Wing Media rising
star Larry Elder. After an eighteen month courtship, she moved
(46:05):
in with him and gets a tattoo that says Larry's
Girl at his request. She says that she was working
as more or less a personal assistant, helping himself produce
his streaming radio show from home, but wasn't paid a salary.
The engagement ended acrimoniously. Later that year, Elder was the
right wing candidate during the attempt to recall California Democratic
(46:29):
Governor Gavin Newsom, at which point Alexandra Daddig spoke up
during his campaign to allege that Larry Elder had once
threatened her by showing her his gun during an argument.
Daddy also had her own campaign to recall l A
Mayor Eric Garcetti, the son of Gil Garcetti, over l
A's escalating homelessness crisis. She started an online petition to
(46:52):
gather the signatures to recall Garcetti. And you may know
about how easy it is to trigger a recall vote
in California, because it's been happening instantly since the recall
of Great Davis that got California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. Jodie
Baby Doll Gibson aka Sasha of the Valley dies in
January of two in Yucca Valley. The other players, like
(47:19):
Madame alex were all working with the l A p D,
giving lists of their clients on a weekly basis. Heidi
wouldn't play the game. She broke all the rules. She
kind of did it for fun. Which was why she
was so successful. Nick Broomfield. Nick Broomfield most recently put
(47:44):
out a documentary called Last Man Standing, Suge Knight and
the Murders of Biggie and Tupac, after other documentaries like
Leonard and Marianne about the relationship between Leonard Cohen and
his lover and mused Maryanne Illen and Whitney Houston. Can
I Be Me? Which is really lead depressing but really
good and I recommend James Cohn is on Twitter. Tom
(48:07):
Sizemore was in Twin Peaks The Return. He works seemingly
constantly in B movies, and some upcoming projects from his
IMDb include Dark Karma, Eat Lead, and Father's Day. In seventeen,
it was revealed that he had been kicked off the
set of a movie in two thousand three for allegedly
molesting an eleven year old girl, which he denied doing.
(48:29):
In En, he was arrested in Burbank for possessing quote
various illegal narcotics. Charlie Sheen came out as an anti
vaxer during his marriage to Denise Richards, and cited their
differences in views on the subject as one of the
reasons for the split. This means Denise Richards is pro vaccine.
Good for you, Denise, We love your work. In Charlie,
(48:53):
Sheen was living with a twenty four year old adult
actress named Bree Olson and a twenty four year old
model and graphic designer named Natalie ken Lee, and he
referred to the two girls as his goddesses. They both
moved out in the next two months. Sheen revealed in
that he was HIV positive and on the cocktail, and
(49:13):
then he went public because he was being extorted for
several years by a group threatening to reveal his HIV
positive status. In Sten, he went on The Doctor Oz
Show and said he'd gone off his HIV meds and
was seeking alternative treatment in Mexico from an Australian quack
doctor named Sam Chachua. In Charlie, Sheen also came under
(49:36):
investigation by the l a p D for threatening to
kill his fiance Scotine Ross, a former adult star who
went by the stage name Brett Rossi. In Seen, he
was sued by an unnamed ex girlfriend for knowingly exposing
her to HIV without telling her. On the acting side,
he had a TBS sitcom called Anger Management that started
(49:58):
in the year after he crashed his two and a
half men gig. Most recently, she and was on Instagram
promoting a podcast slash pilot that he made with entourages
Doug Ellen called ramble On. It is I think a
podcast that's the spinoff of Doug Ellen's podcast Victory about Entourage,
but also a backdoor TV pilot because stars they're just
(50:21):
like us. Ramble On the TV show pilot stars Charlie
Sheen as himself, alongside E from Entourage who I won't
dignify with his government name, and Kevin Dillon as themselves,
plus veteran character actor John c McGinley who was in
Platoon with Charlie Sheen and then cameo appearances from people
(50:42):
like Martin Sheen, Mark Cuban, and Jamie Lynn Siegler. IMDb
says it's a show about established show biz folks and newcomers,
and it appears to mostly take place at the Smokehouse
Restaurant in Burbank, which is an old school place that
I obviously love from which for l A is like
a million years old, and it is a show biz
(51:04):
hangout because it's right across from where a lot of
television shoots Charlie also has a website www. Dot sheenyus
dot com. At the time, what was going on in
my house hanging around girls, just googling, around, playing in
the pool. It really seemed like a time of innocence,
(51:25):
like a six sorority club. As we reach the city
limits of Heidi World, I've been thinking a lot about
what drew me to the story of Heidi Flace in
the first place. I did not set out to make
this podcast autobiographical, but it ended up being that way
because it turns out that I clearly always identified in
(51:46):
some way with Heidi Flace as a frizzy haired, self
conscious Jewish girl from Los Angeles, eager to make a
name for herself in a city where her name didn't
mean anything to anyone. Yet. The sexual hypocrisy on display
in the Heidi Fly story also made a big lasting
impression on me because it revealed something about society that
(52:07):
I really wanted to reject as being true, which is
that it's deeply misogynistic on a core level. Other events
since the Heidi Flight's trial have only reinforced the way
in which womanhood, sexuality, and spectacle are weaponized to send
messages about women who transgress traditional roles or try to
benefit off their own sexuality in any way. And for
(52:30):
the most recent example of this, I mean check out
the coverage of the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
I also appreciate that Heidi Flights just is who she is.
She's not a perfect role model or spoke person, and
she doesn't ever try to be. But she is still alive,
still talking and still making jokes. She feels unkillable in
(52:53):
some way, and well, it may not be a flawless victory,
it still feels like a little bit of hope, a
shot against the mainstream narrative that sex workers always die
or terrible things always happened to them. She's allegedly still
a drug user and very open about that. And another
thing that making this podcast really made me think deeply
about is addiction and the way addiction is treated in
(53:17):
American society. A lot of the people in this story
struggle with addiction throughout their lives, and it's clearly passed
on genetically in families without excusing any of the abuse
committed by the many, many abuse of men in Heidi World.
I found myself coming away with a view of these
alpha males that was more complex than I expected. Addiction
(53:40):
fucking sucks and it ravages people, and I feel bad
for anyone who struggles with themselves. I did not go
into Hidi World expecting to come out of it like Wow.
Charlie Sheen sure has a lot of pathos to him.
But I also vividly remember during the Tiger Blood era thinking, man,
this guy really needs to not be on camera right now.
(54:03):
He is clearly not well, and everyone who is letting
him be on camera is complicit. Making Heidi World also
just got me interrogating why I'm drawn to stories like
this and drawn personally to your John Peters types like Heidi.
I love charismatic talkers in Hollywood alpha males, which made
(54:24):
me realize on some level, I must want to be
a Hollywood alpha male. Thinking about how to drop people
in while you're talking to them and get them absorbed
enough to keep listening to you is something I also
thought about, obviously, making a ten episode podcast where I'm
talking a lot. I hope that resurfacing the Heidi Fly
story with this podcast will inspire people to get involved
(54:47):
with sex workers rights and the laws around them. Sex
work is both more visible and under more threat than ever,
and groups like Sex Workers Outreach Project USA are doing
great work around these is years. Here in Los Angeles,
strippers from a club in my hometown of North Hollywood
in the San Fernando Valley called Star Garden are striking
(55:09):
against work conditions where management allowed them to be groped
by customers against their will without any punishment. The striking
North Hollywood Strippers recently voted to unionize, and you can
follow them on Twitter at strip Strike No How and
follow their sister organization, Strippers United at Strippers Unite on
Twitter and let sex workers themselves tell you what kind
(55:32):
of material and online support they actually need. People think
I sat back and made money off someone else, and
that's not true at all. As far as exploiting women,
women are exploited in the world, people are exploited. I
(55:52):
was not exploiting them. The girls who met me did
very very well. These people sewing downtown that is exploitation.
The street phip that is exploitation. And might be a hypocrite,
but I always thought that I was trying to do
the right thing. Thanks everyone for joining me your host
(56:14):
Molly Lambert on this journey through weird California. History from
the nineties seventies up until now, and a story about
the importance of decriminalizing and de sigmatizing sex work. And
as for Heidi Flice, she has a YouTube channel where
she posts videos of her macaws and screeds against the
(56:34):
woman that she's mad at about the bitcoin scam. She's
on Instagram too, and Heidi, if you're listening, by any chance,
call me and now for and credits. Heidi World would
(57:02):
never have been possible without the incredible production team of
Anna host me, A, Becca Ramos, and Tricia mccarge. Thanks
to Rory Gegan, who beautifully edited and sound designed and
insanely complicated thing special. Thanks to Chris Chang, who shot
and edited the Heidi World promo trailer that we made
with Annie Hamilton's to announce the show. Chris and Annie
(57:25):
were the first two people to volunteer their time for
this project, and I'm really grateful for them. Chris also
wrote the sick ass song that's in the promo trailer.
And thanks to Bethan Macaluso, who worked with me on
the scripts and helped shape this into something that anyone
else could ever listen to. And now, because it is
my show, and because I think it's funny, which is
what this entire show is really about. Is pleasing me personally.
(57:50):
I am going to read the entire cast list like
it's movie credits. A huge thank you to everyone who
agreed to voice act for me, many of whom had
never done it before, and special thanks to Annie Hamilton's
and Max Sylvestry for bringing real acting chops to the
leads and making this world grounded so that anything else
could make sense. Heidi World, an I Heart Radio production.
(58:16):
Annie Hamilton's as Heidi Flice, Max Sylvestry as Yvonne Nag,
Karen Tompson as Madam Alex, Glenn Lambert as Dr Paul Flice,
Sarah Sherman as Shane of Flice, Audrey Kaufman as Kim Flice,
Jack O'Brien as Jesse Flice, on a host n as
(58:40):
alyssa Ash Flice, Jamie Loftus as Victoria Sellers, Molly Young
as Alexandra Datig, John Daily as John Peters, Miles Clee
as Don Simpson, Jason Stewart as Charlie Sheen, Chris Black
as Billie Idol, Robert Evans as Robert Evans, Corina Longworth
(59:06):
as Julia Phillips, Dylan Jalula as Angelica Houston, Brodie Gupta
as Melanie Griffiths, Hunter Harris as Rita Wilson, Judd Nick
Mayard as Sean Hubler, Emily Yoshida as Leanne, Isabel Batty
(59:27):
as Maryland, Joel Monique as Brandy McClain, Rachel Rabbit White
as Julie Conist, Sarah C. Johnson as Simone Former Alex Girl,
Alex Pappadimis as defense attorney Anthony Brooklyar, Andrew T as
Detective Sammy Lee The Second, Jason concepts Ion as Prosecutor
(59:51):
Alan Carter, Julianne Smilinsky as Norma, Jean Alma Dovar, Noemi
Fry as Sherry Land Saying, Miles Gray as James Cohn,
Harry Eskin as Bernie Cornfeld, Tess Lynch as Elaine Young,
Kate Raft as Michelle Peiffer, Joan Ford as Amy Holden, Jones,
(01:00:15):
lies A Die as Whoopie Goldberg, Joe Mandy as Frank
Sinatra Jr. Lindsay Weber as Judge Judith al Champagne Eva
Anderson as Ava Gabor, Aidan Rata as Meg Ryan, Liz
fran Sack as Sharon Stone, Josh Losy as Bob crow,
(01:00:39):
Felix Biederman as Tom Sizemore, Sirie Dahl as Sheila Mactrowski,
Young Chomsky as Elliott Mints, Andrew de Young as Andy Sedaris,
Dan Longino as Vince Conti, Dean Fleischer Camp as Paul McCarthy,
Richard Kelly as Robert Altman, Yasi Salik as Ginger Lynn Allen,
(01:01:05):
Holly Anderson as Share, John Levin seen as Mayor, Richard Reardon,
Ryan Johnson as Adrian Lyne Brace Belden as JJ the
King of Beeper's, Gracie Hadland as Liz Smith, Jack Allison
as Anthony Pellicano, Karry O'Donnell as Mike Flice, Paul F.
(01:01:31):
Tompkins as Dennis Hoff, Bug Maine as Ron Jeremy Leslie
Lee the Third as O. J. Simpson, John Daly again
as Jay Leno, Carvel Wallace as Nick Broomfield, Ben Lambert
as Robert Evans press agent, Eloi Lugo as Billie Idol's publicist,
(01:01:53):
and Becker Ramos as Nancy Reyes. And thanks to everyone
who came along with us on this long wild ride
through Los Angeles, I'm your host, Molly Lambert signing off
one last time from Heidi World. M
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