November 18, 2025 • 13 mins
Author Kent Heckenlively joins Kevin Cirilli to break down the explosive themes in his new book, Catastrophic Disclosure: The Deep State, Aliens, and the Truth. They dig into the latest congressional UFO hearings, the obstacles faced by whistleblowers, and why government secrecy around UAP phenomena is intensifying. The conversation explores how advanced alien technology could reshape national security, global power structures, and the U.S. economy—and why transparency is becoming a national imperative. Heckenlively also examines the controversial Nazca mummies and what they might reveal about human-alien hybrids.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We talk a lot about the unknown in outer space
on this program. As you know, I am a huge,
huge believer in looking up to the sky in wonder
and trying to understand our place in the universe. But
there are people and forces who are keeping the truth
from us. Hello, Future, it's me keV. This is a
(00:29):
dispatch from the Digital Frontier. The planet is Earth, the
year is twenty twenty five, and my guest today is
an author who has a bombshell book on UFO disclosures.
His name is Kent Hecking Lively. I can't recommend this
book enough because it is a book that really puts
(00:51):
into perspective everything that's out there. It's been featured on
Fox News. It's called Catastrophic Disclosure, The Deep State, Aliens
and the Truth, and it just came out. Kent, thank
you for joining us. Appreciate your time. What's the biggest
bombshell in this book that you can tell us.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think the biggest bombshell is this book is a
re examination of the UFO story in light of the
congressional hearings. Now, for your audience who doesn't know me,
this is my twentieth book. This is the first time
I've ever taken a walk on the wild side and
done anything paranormal. So what got me into this book
(01:37):
was in the summer of twenty twenty three, there were
congressional hearings with David Gresh, Ryan Graves, David Fravor and know,
I've written a bunch about politics. I've written about the
politics behind the COVID nineteen task Force, Gone after Google,
I've gone.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I think RFK Junior wrote the forward to one of
your books, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, So he wrote the forward too through my book
Playing a Corruption. And actually four of my books have
been published under his Children's Health Defense label, which which
I think makes me the most prolific writer under the
Kennedy Cannon at Skyhorse Publishing. So I'm kind of like
a nerd for footnotes and everything. So my books usually
(02:20):
have three to four hundred footnotes so you can check
out all the evidence. And so what happened when those
hearings took place is I said to myself, something's going on.
So you know, I've never seen Ufoh, I've never been abducted.
You know, I'm a really rational guy. I'm I'm an attorney,
(02:40):
I'm a science teacher, so I'm mister rational, but I
really do have a good nose for when people are
lying to me. And so when I when that happened,
I actually called up one of my friends, Michael Mazzola,
who's probably one of the probably the world's premier director
UFO documentaries, and I said, Michael, what is going on
(03:03):
with this? And that's when he gave me this expression
catastrophic disclosure. And he said, the buzz from behind the
scenes with the intelligence people who you know, have some
contact with the UFO community is controlled disclosure? Yes, because
(03:24):
there was something called catastrophic disclosure. I said, with my
training as an attorney, I'm a really simple guy. You know.
You raise your right hand, you say, I swear to
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth will help me. God. When these whistleblowers appear in
front of Congress and a congressman asked him a question
and they say, oh, I'm sorry, I can't answer that
(03:45):
question here in public. We'd have to be in a skiff.
Oh so if I ask you that question and the
skiff you can answer, well, we'd have to get permission
from the gatekeepers. And I'm like, no, no, this is
antithetical to everything. In the American system.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
You get asked a question by a representative of our government,
you answer it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I really appreciate how you're answering this question. For me,
I don't think it's their fault that they can't disclose it.
I think it's the system. And I'm curious for your
take on this when they get up there. I think
a lot of these folks who are whistleblowers want to
tell the truth. I think they're actually dying to tell
(04:31):
the truth. But the system, for whatever reason, for decades
has been like a strangle on them from being able
to talk openly about it. Do you agree? Disagree? I mean,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah? And so you know, you can never know what's
going on in somebody's head, which is why I always
ask a lot of questions of people who know more
than I do. Like in the course of writing this book,
I've become very close to Congressman Eric Burlison, so who's
on the disclosure task for a task force on this
closure of federal secrets. And you know, I asked him
(05:02):
that question, which is like, are these people really scared?
He's like, yes, they are really scared. And you know,
it's nice because Burlson is skeptical on the question of aliens,
but he what he's not skeptical on is these people
are lying to us. These people are credible, they have
amazing stories, and we got to get to the bottom
(05:24):
of it.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So one of the things that I find fascinating about
this conversation, and again the book is called Catastrophic Disclosure,
The Deep State, Aliens and the Truth by Kent Heck
and Lively and Michael Mazzola. Ken is my guest for
today's episode. One of the things I find really remarkable
is that the technology, especially in the last decade, with
the advent of the James Web telescope and you know
(05:47):
the Reuben Observatory as well, we are capturing Galileo like
discoveries almost daily. I mean, what these technologies are being
able to find. Plus the advent of our official intelligence
AI and the capabilities, and we're knocking on the door
of quantum breakthroughs. Do you think that lawmakers, because we
(06:08):
can see it now with our own eyes, our camera
capabilities being able to track some of these that lawmakers
and the powers that be and the government are going
to be under even more pressure to disclose what they
know because our technology is capturing it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's a great question. And so what I do in
this book, like I say, you know, I don't know
the answer these questions, but I know who the smart
people are to go and ask, so you know that
that's why, you know, I did extensive interviews with doctor
Stephen Greer, people like Danny Sheehan. I did a nice
interview with Michael Shallenberger, who revealed the Immaculate Constellation program,
(06:48):
which is supposedly that our government is monitoring these things
and has a whole lot of not only pictures but
sensor data. And the picture that seems to be paymed
by these people is the United States government can tract
these things pretty well. And the question is also whether
(07:09):
they are actively seeking to bring these things down. And
you know, this is a story that keeps being I
keep hearing from several different sources, and you know, it
even gets testified to in Congress, and it seems like
there is this secret government. And it's really interesting to
go through the congressional record and the congressional hearings and
(07:32):
you just say to yourself, look, I don't know what
the truth is, but when these things are being testified
to under Oath in Congress and knowing how thoroughly these
people have to be vetted. These these are real people,
and you know, even quote the debunks are really not
that convincing. Like I have a chapter on the March
(07:53):
twenty twenty four Arrow Report on historical UFO investigations, and
you know, it's kind of funny. I'm an attorney, so
I love reading long, boring documents, right, And so you
know what they'll say is, oh, these whistleblowers are real
people employed in the positions they say they are, and
(08:15):
they have observed real programs. They've just drawn the wrong conclusion.
I'm like, you know, you getting as a real clothes
to the truth, right, you know. And then they'll say
things like, well, you know these claims that these whistleblowers have,
these NDAs.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
You know that that threaten them with treason and death.
Well we have we have not found any NDAs which
which say don't disclose the alien technology. But you know
if they did sign an NDA, it would have trees
and and death in it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That word right there, alien technology. That to me, because
I'm a capitalist, right, and I appreciate that you're a lawyer,
I'm not. I don't have a lawyer training background, but
I was a financial journalist. That was really how I
see the world. And I think you follow the money, right,
and so the line items and the defense budgets, the
different accounts at various different government agencies, the public private partnerships,
(09:14):
because I think the technology capabilities, that's what leads to
a national security question if America, and I hope America
knows exactly what's going on and not the Communist Party
of China or Russia or Iran, because if America can
reverse engineer some of this technology, I would argue that
that helps give us a leg up, which is why
I'm such a strong proponent of a strong national security
(09:36):
based space program. And I think that as we're looking
to colonize the Moon, as we're looking to colonize the Mars,
as we're looking to asteroid mine and mind the asteroids,
this is going to be more and more commonplace. I mean,
it was just this year, in the last several months
where NASA said that they are potentially looking at biosignatures
for signs of life on Mars on Mars, And so
(09:57):
to me, why wouldn't if you're p is it a
Trump talk about a legacy. Why wouldn't you want to
be the president that discloses to the American people other
life in the solar system.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well, one of the claims of the UFO community is
that what catastrophic disclosure means is that this technology would
be revealed, it would destroy the oil and gas industry.
And just a quick thing, you know, everybody is familiar
with the tic Tac incident off of the coast of
(10:30):
San Diego. You know where these these craft went from
eighty thousand feet to you know, fifty feet above the
water in like a matter of seconds. And one of
the things calculations that's been made is the energy you
would take to do that is the entire energy output
of the United States for a year. And so catastrophic disclosure,
in the mind of many, means that our entire global
(10:54):
economy would change. And so, and as we have just
a couple of minutes left, I want to talk to
you about what I think is the most exciting part
of our book, which is the so called Nosca mummies. So,
for those those who don't know about that, there are
(11:15):
approximately sixty bodies that have been discovered in areas of
Peru near the Nosca lines. And these are tridactyl creatures.
They look humanoid. We have pictures of them under X
ray and cat scan. There's has been DNA testing of them.
(11:35):
More DNA testing needs to be done, but the preliminary
DNA testing shows these creatures are approximately seventy percent earthly life,
meaning they're mostly human. But remember they were discovered in Peru.
The human DNA appears to come from Southeast Asia, and
(11:55):
then there is chimpanzee DNA from Africa, and there's about
thirty percent DNA which is uncharacterized and it is unlike
anything we know of on Earth. So it seems like
these are hybrid creatures. They resemble the grays. And so
the question is whether what we're people are seeing when
(12:18):
they see grays, they might be seeing these hybrid organisms.
And you know, as we're in the age of de
extincting things like dire wolves, well maybe taking a closer
look at what these aliens might be doing. You know,
our technology is coming close to what they can do.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So you know, I don't know if the mummies are aliens,
but I can tell you this, it's why we got
to study the past. And so whether or not you
agree with kent Heck and Lively, folks, or you agree
with the mummies and what he's saying, how do you
know he's wrong? How do you know he's wrong? How
do you know he's right? We got to say curious
about understanding this, and it's why I'm so bullish on
(12:59):
you know, we report this in my newsletter over at
MTF dot tv about artificial intelligence looking at some of
the Dead Sea scrolls and changing the timeline of our consciousness,
of human understanding of when the Bible was written, and
so looking at the past, whether they're mummies, whether they're
ancient scripture readings, or whether it's whatever. I think is
important and it's a worthwhile conversation and we need transparency
(13:20):
on it. Kent Heck and Lively. I wish we had
more time. Catastrophic Disclosure is the name of the book.
It is a fascinating read. If you like the Sci
Fi Channel or you like ancient alien hunters, this is
the perfect book for you.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Kent, Thank you so much, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Kevin
We talk a lot about the unknown in outer space
on this program. As you know, I am a huge,
huge believer in looking up to the sky in wonder
and trying to understand our place in the universe. But
there are people and forces who are keeping the truth
from us. Hello, Future, it's me keV. This is a
(00:29):
dispatch from the Digital Frontier. The planet is Earth, the
year is twenty twenty five, and my guest today is
an author who has a bombshell book on UFO disclosures.
His name is Kent Hecking Lively. I can't recommend this
book enough because it is a book that really puts
(00:51):
into perspective everything that's out there. It's been featured on
Fox News. It's called Catastrophic Disclosure, The Deep State, Aliens
and the Truth, and it just came out. Kent, thank
you for joining us. Appreciate your time. What's the biggest
bombshell in this book that you can tell us.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think the biggest bombshell is this book is a
re examination of the UFO story in light of the
congressional hearings. Now, for your audience who doesn't know me,
this is my twentieth book. This is the first time
I've ever taken a walk on the wild side and
done anything paranormal. So what got me into this book
(01:37):
was in the summer of twenty twenty three, there were
congressional hearings with David Gresh, Ryan Graves, David Fravor and know,
I've written a bunch about politics. I've written about the
politics behind the COVID nineteen task Force, Gone after Google,
I've gone.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I think RFK Junior wrote the forward to one of
your books, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, So he wrote the forward too through my book
Playing a Corruption. And actually four of my books have
been published under his Children's Health Defense label, which which
I think makes me the most prolific writer under the
Kennedy Cannon at Skyhorse Publishing. So I'm kind of like
a nerd for footnotes and everything. So my books usually
(02:20):
have three to four hundred footnotes so you can check
out all the evidence. And so what happened when those
hearings took place is I said to myself, something's going on.
So you know, I've never seen Ufoh, I've never been abducted.
You know, I'm a really rational guy. I'm I'm an attorney,
(02:40):
I'm a science teacher, so I'm mister rational, but I
really do have a good nose for when people are
lying to me. And so when I when that happened,
I actually called up one of my friends, Michael Mazzola,
who's probably one of the probably the world's premier director
UFO documentaries, and I said, Michael, what is going on
(03:03):
with this? And that's when he gave me this expression
catastrophic disclosure. And he said, the buzz from behind the
scenes with the intelligence people who you know, have some
contact with the UFO community is controlled disclosure? Yes, because
(03:24):
there was something called catastrophic disclosure. I said, with my
training as an attorney, I'm a really simple guy. You know.
You raise your right hand, you say, I swear to
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth will help me. God. When these whistleblowers appear in
front of Congress and a congressman asked him a question
and they say, oh, I'm sorry, I can't answer that
(03:45):
question here in public. We'd have to be in a skiff.
Oh so if I ask you that question and the
skiff you can answer, well, we'd have to get permission
from the gatekeepers. And I'm like, no, no, this is
antithetical to everything. In the American system.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
You get asked a question by a representative of our government,
you answer it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I really appreciate how you're answering this question. For me,
I don't think it's their fault that they can't disclose it.
I think it's the system. And I'm curious for your
take on this when they get up there. I think
a lot of these folks who are whistleblowers want to
tell the truth. I think they're actually dying to tell
(04:31):
the truth. But the system, for whatever reason, for decades
has been like a strangle on them from being able
to talk openly about it. Do you agree? Disagree? I mean,
what do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah? And so you know, you can never know what's
going on in somebody's head, which is why I always
ask a lot of questions of people who know more
than I do. Like in the course of writing this book,
I've become very close to Congressman Eric Burlison, so who's
on the disclosure task for a task force on this
closure of federal secrets. And you know, I asked him
(05:02):
that question, which is like, are these people really scared?
He's like, yes, they are really scared. And you know,
it's nice because Burlson is skeptical on the question of aliens,
but he what he's not skeptical on is these people
are lying to us. These people are credible, they have
amazing stories, and we got to get to the bottom
(05:24):
of it.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So one of the things that I find fascinating about
this conversation, and again the book is called Catastrophic Disclosure,
The Deep State, Aliens and the Truth by Kent Heck
and Lively and Michael Mazzola. Ken is my guest for
today's episode. One of the things I find really remarkable
is that the technology, especially in the last decade, with
the advent of the James Web telescope and you know
(05:47):
the Reuben Observatory as well, we are capturing Galileo like
discoveries almost daily. I mean, what these technologies are being
able to find. Plus the advent of our official intelligence
AI and the capabilities, and we're knocking on the door
of quantum breakthroughs. Do you think that lawmakers, because we
(06:08):
can see it now with our own eyes, our camera
capabilities being able to track some of these that lawmakers
and the powers that be and the government are going
to be under even more pressure to disclose what they
know because our technology is capturing it.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's a great question. And so what I do in
this book, like I say, you know, I don't know
the answer these questions, but I know who the smart
people are to go and ask, so you know that
that's why, you know, I did extensive interviews with doctor
Stephen Greer, people like Danny Sheehan. I did a nice
interview with Michael Shallenberger, who revealed the Immaculate Constellation program,
(06:48):
which is supposedly that our government is monitoring these things
and has a whole lot of not only pictures but
sensor data. And the picture that seems to be paymed
by these people is the United States government can tract
these things pretty well. And the question is also whether
(07:09):
they are actively seeking to bring these things down. And
you know, this is a story that keeps being I
keep hearing from several different sources, and you know, it
even gets testified to in Congress, and it seems like
there is this secret government. And it's really interesting to
go through the congressional record and the congressional hearings and
(07:32):
you just say to yourself, look, I don't know what
the truth is, but when these things are being testified
to under Oath in Congress and knowing how thoroughly these
people have to be vetted. These these are real people,
and you know, even quote the debunks are really not
that convincing. Like I have a chapter on the March
(07:53):
twenty twenty four Arrow Report on historical UFO investigations, and
you know, it's kind of funny. I'm an attorney, so
I love reading long, boring documents, right, And so you
know what they'll say is, oh, these whistleblowers are real
people employed in the positions they say they are, and
(08:15):
they have observed real programs. They've just drawn the wrong conclusion.
I'm like, you know, you getting as a real clothes
to the truth, right, you know. And then they'll say
things like, well, you know these claims that these whistleblowers have,
these NDAs.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
You know that that threaten them with treason and death.
Well we have we have not found any NDAs which
which say don't disclose the alien technology. But you know
if they did sign an NDA, it would have trees
and and death in it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
That word right there, alien technology. That to me, because
I'm a capitalist, right, and I appreciate that you're a lawyer,
I'm not. I don't have a lawyer training background, but
I was a financial journalist. That was really how I
see the world. And I think you follow the money, right,
and so the line items and the defense budgets, the
different accounts at various different government agencies, the public private partnerships,
(09:14):
because I think the technology capabilities, that's what leads to
a national security question if America, and I hope America
knows exactly what's going on and not the Communist Party
of China or Russia or Iran, because if America can
reverse engineer some of this technology, I would argue that
that helps give us a leg up, which is why
I'm such a strong proponent of a strong national security
(09:36):
based space program. And I think that as we're looking
to colonize the Moon, as we're looking to colonize the Mars,
as we're looking to asteroid mine and mind the asteroids,
this is going to be more and more commonplace. I mean,
it was just this year, in the last several months
where NASA said that they are potentially looking at biosignatures
for signs of life on Mars on Mars, And so
(09:57):
to me, why wouldn't if you're p is it a
Trump talk about a legacy. Why wouldn't you want to
be the president that discloses to the American people other
life in the solar system.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well, one of the claims of the UFO community is
that what catastrophic disclosure means is that this technology would
be revealed, it would destroy the oil and gas industry.
And just a quick thing, you know, everybody is familiar
with the tic Tac incident off of the coast of
(10:30):
San Diego. You know where these these craft went from
eighty thousand feet to you know, fifty feet above the
water in like a matter of seconds. And one of
the things calculations that's been made is the energy you
would take to do that is the entire energy output
of the United States for a year. And so catastrophic disclosure,
in the mind of many, means that our entire global
(10:54):
economy would change. And so, and as we have just
a couple of minutes left, I want to talk to
you about what I think is the most exciting part
of our book, which is the so called Nosca mummies. So,
for those those who don't know about that, there are
(11:15):
approximately sixty bodies that have been discovered in areas of
Peru near the Nosca lines. And these are tridactyl creatures.
They look humanoid. We have pictures of them under X
ray and cat scan. There's has been DNA testing of them.
(11:35):
More DNA testing needs to be done, but the preliminary
DNA testing shows these creatures are approximately seventy percent earthly life,
meaning they're mostly human. But remember they were discovered in Peru.
The human DNA appears to come from Southeast Asia, and
(11:55):
then there is chimpanzee DNA from Africa, and there's about
thirty percent DNA which is uncharacterized and it is unlike
anything we know of on Earth. So it seems like
these are hybrid creatures. They resemble the grays. And so
the question is whether what we're people are seeing when
(12:18):
they see grays, they might be seeing these hybrid organisms.
And you know, as we're in the age of de
extincting things like dire wolves, well maybe taking a closer
look at what these aliens might be doing. You know,
our technology is coming close to what they can do.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So you know, I don't know if the mummies are aliens,
but I can tell you this, it's why we got
to study the past. And so whether or not you
agree with kent Heck and Lively, folks, or you agree
with the mummies and what he's saying, how do you
know he's wrong? How do you know he's wrong? How
do you know he's right? We got to say curious
about understanding this, and it's why I'm so bullish on
(12:59):
you know, we report this in my newsletter over at
MTF dot tv about artificial intelligence looking at some of
the Dead Sea scrolls and changing the timeline of our consciousness,
of human understanding of when the Bible was written, and
so looking at the past, whether they're mummies, whether they're
ancient scripture readings, or whether it's whatever. I think is
important and it's a worthwhile conversation and we need transparency
(13:20):
on it. Kent Heck and Lively. I wish we had
more time. Catastrophic Disclosure is the name of the book.
It is a fascinating read. If you like the Sci
Fi Channel or you like ancient alien hunters, this is
the perfect book for you.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Kent, Thank you so much, Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Kevin
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