November 13, 2023 • 45 mins
Isaac Mizrahi chats with former NFL star, Malcolm Jenkins, about how influential the women in his life are, why failure inspires him, the importance of reinventing yourself and more.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Malcolm Jenkins @malcolmjenkins.
(Recorded on October 17, 2023)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Darlings.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I have a few shows coming up, firstly at Cafe
Carlisle on November twenty eighth and twenty ninth. The show
is called It's Beginning to Look a lot like Isaac,
And in case you didn't realize, that's going to sort
of be like a little holiday show, So it's going
to be totally fun. My band stories, I'm gonna regift
because it's around the holidays and I need to make
(00:23):
room for my new regifting, So there's that. Also, I
have another show on December one in Stony Brook, which
is in New York, and that's going to be really
fun too. Please go to my website Hello Isaac to
get tickets.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello Isaac dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It is a very violent game. I kept getting hurt
like year and a year. I'm just missing few games.
I kept getting pinches in my nerves, in my neck,
and it was because I was trying to convince myself
to play this like gladiator sport and punish people.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
And then I.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Changed the way that I played the game, and I
stopped trying to hurt people and I stopped getting hurt.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi and
in this episode, I talked to two times Super Bowl
champion and former NFL star Malcolm Jenkins.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Hello, Isaac, this is Malcolm Jenkins, two times Super Bowl champion,
now author. I heard that you were a huge football
fan and knew everything about football, so I can't wait
to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I have never been this terrified before like any podcast saping.
This is like Mount Everest or something. Today I'm talking
to this really famous and fabulous football star called Malcolm Jenkins, who,
on top of everything else, is so gorgeous to look at.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
But I know literally nothing, nothing, nothing about football. I
know a lot about baseball, and I really like baseball.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I watch it all the time. And thing is like,
you know, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Say I dislike football, because what's not to like about it?
But I don't understand it. Like I try to watch it,
I try to get what it's about, and the minute
I think I understand it, I find out that I
don't know what the hell I'm even thinking about or
looking at. You know, So this is going to be
like a great, big challenge for me. So come on
(02:23):
and let's get started because I can't waste another second.
Here we go, Malcolm Jenkins, Hi, what's going on for that?
Where am I finding you? Where do you live these days?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I actually bounce between Philadelphia and New Orleans, So I'm
in New Orleans right now, but I spent the time
between the two cities.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I see.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, now here's the thing, and I'm going to be
completely honest with you.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I am so scared to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You are the first football player I've ever like interviewed
in my entire life. And you know, I like certain sports.
I like to watch things I don't know, like I
like to watch tennis, and I like to sometimes watch football.
But I have literally no idea how to play the game,
and people have tried to explain to me. I know,
(03:11):
the object is to get the football from one side
of the you know field to the other and to
touch it down. I guess a touchdown, right? And you
played the position of safety right?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You know?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
If you talk to me about shortstop or something, I
completely understand what a shortstop is in baseball because I
watch baseball, but I have no idea what a safety.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
What is the job of a safety? Can you tell me?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, essentially, you know, like you said, the offense is
trying to get down the field and get a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
The safety is the last line of the defense. So
he played.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
He is away from the ball, he's responsible to stop passes,
he tackles everybody, and oftentimes, because he's the furthest away,
he has the best vantage point, so he's often the
traffic controller for all of.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Right, So it's like goalie or something.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yeah, similar.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, but you just explained that and I completely understood it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I've been googling this all fucking morning, like safety safety,
I have no idea, And I'm telling you, when you're
watching the game, like you think you understand, and then
someone blows the whistle and you're like, well, why do
you do that? You know, it's like and then everything
changes and you thought you understood, but you didn't understand.
The thing I understand is like Friday night lights, which
is like my favorite shop, Like that's my That's the
(04:26):
extent to which I understand football. I'm sorry, but you know,
I think that athletes are so inspiring to me, and
I feel like what they accomplish and their kind of
like path in life is so much like the path
of an artist, and I'm used to interviewing artists and
(04:47):
entertainers and performers and writers and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And I had one incredible.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Triathlete on the show, but she ended up writing and
producing this movie, right, so we had that in common.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Like I honestly, I'm going.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
To interview you as though you are like an artist.
Let's start with a little bit of history.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay. First of all, you grew up where.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So I grew up in Pascatoy, New Jersey, actually right
where Rutgers University is located.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Right, and you went to school and you eventually became
like this incredible athlete in college.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, so a little bit a little bit more back
forward to that. I played football, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
But really I got a scholarship because I lucked up
and went to a camp in which I like competed
against a bunch of receivers, right right. I get a
scholarship to go to Ohio State. And it's really there
that I really start to look at professionals. I didn't
think I was. I didn't have dreams of being in
the NFL. I didn't have dreams of play in college football.
I liked playing ball, and I was just kind of
(05:56):
competing and see where it took me.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And it took me quite a way.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But you know, the thing I'm so interested in about
this trajectory is like, because for outsiders, like to me,
you don't come across as an outsider. You come in
as a full insider. Like you're fine looking, you're tall,
you have this gorgeous body, you play football, women's swoon,
men's swoon? How is it different? Like did you fix
(06:23):
your teeth? It's like, are your teeth because you have
gorgeous teeth.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I did have a gap that I closed.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, Okay, I like to be perfect trying.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
To ask you.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I think that's what exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
My whole book is literally about debunking that image that's
usually what we see out of athletes, and that's usually
never the case.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I opened up the book with a story of how
I was getting bullied and my grandmother had to push
me back outside. She literally locked the door and said, no,
go fight this bully, or you can't come in the house.
Because like that, that's where I learned my toughness from.
It's not macho, you know thing even and even football.
I hated football in the beginning. My favorite part of
(07:05):
the sport was, you know, you play pop Warn of
the Little League. At the end of the game, everybody
shakes hands and then it's a race to the concession
stand because they give up dogs and little quarter waters.
That was my favorite part of the day was the
hot dog order. So I win those races all the
time because I never got into games.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Right, this is amazing to me.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I don't understand, like, what could they possibly find to
bully you about as a little kid.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
That's just the neighborhood. You know, it wasn't necessarily a
picking on you type of thing. But I grew up
in a neighborhood where they were a ton of young
boys with brothers, and there was always this rule that
if anybody messages with your brother, you gotta go deal
with it. It was one of those things where you know,
I had to stand up to somebody who was picking
on my brother, even though I knew the consequences for me,
(07:55):
you know, facing somebody older than me, and my grandmother
is the one.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Who had to teach me that lessons.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So right, that's an ongoing, you know thing that's a
misnomber as well. You think it's like the macho men,
and it's like oftentimes it's the women around those rights
who built them up.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, talk to me about your grandmother for a minute,
because I know she's an important figure in your life.
Why was it she who was the one to bolster
you and tell you to go? Why wasn't it like
your dad or your mom or something or your brother
even Well.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think that's that's where it comes from.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I come from a family that's matriarchy really on both sides.
And I even talk about my dad, there are things
that I've learned to understand about him, understanding more of
my grandmother and how she raised him as a single mother,
you know, working and doing things like that, sending him back,
giving him the same lessons she gave me with him
(08:45):
being an older brother. And then our relationship really grew
as I grew up. She was like my biggest fan,
you know, went from teaching me lessons to then like
cheering me on. You know, if I had issues in college,
I needed some money, she was going I call. And
then even you know her introducing me to black Greek
life and paternities and sororities. That was, you know, a
(09:05):
thing I didn't know She's somebody who's into art, who
loved to travel, so just even watching her was inspiring.
And then obviously she passed due to cancer, and I
talk about, you know, the struggles of that being my
support and in now losing that in a time of
my life where I'm like.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
On the biggest stage.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
But I do still you know, community and communicate with
her pretty pretty frequently.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So she's a big part of my life.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's amazing to hear because I feel like, honestly, like
the whole story about being bullied and being so incredibly
influenced by women, right, I feel like men are so
much more influenced by women than they will admit. You know,
at least men that I like to talk to that
aren't you know, bullies themselves, right, that aren't afraid of women,
(09:52):
because I think misogyny is the worst.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I think to your point is it's not being afraid
of strong wins. I don't even have that luxury. My
family is.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Filled with them.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
So that's all I've ever known with strong women. You know,
my literally my mom, my two aunts, my grandmother, and
my cousin.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
They call themselves the Committee.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And so nothing happened, nothing happened my family, like unless
the committee. So you know, I can't even you know,
understand it when when people are afraid of strong women.
And now being a girl dad, you know, I understand
the importance of raising women who are not afraid to
be smart, who are not to be afraid to be ambitious.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
So yeah, that's that's just my life.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I have to say. One thing I really admire in
talking to you already is that you still have these
close relationships in your family.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, because for me not so much, you know, And
that's I think a big difference about being outside and inside.
Like I don't really speak to my sisters that much
because of the gay thing. That's a weird relationship. Whereas
you have this family that really cares for you and
cherishes you. Outside the family circle, are there people who
you feel are really really supportive and really really like
(11:08):
greats at such a Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I think one of my biggest strengths is is the
friends I've acquired over my life, and I've been really
tight with a lot of them, and we've gone into
business and done great things. When you look at my
inner circle, it's really people I've known since kindergarten, and
my family's very, very supportive. But I even talk about,
you know, in my book, dealing with being the only
(11:33):
one with this kind of money, being the only one
going through this particular experience, right, and how isolating that
can be. And so you know, there are people that
can relate to that, where nobody and your family and
your experience, but then you've got all the responsibility and expectations.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I want to talk to you about that, like just
the whole idea of being so famous and the kind
of microscope that that puts you under. But before I
ask you that, do you have any women friends in
your life?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah? So one of my best friends in my entire life,
who's my business partner. Talk about her a lot in
the book. Her name is Worlanda. We've known each other
since literally kindergarten. Her daughters are my god kids, and
you know, we've been tight. Her husband, Joe is part
of the family now and we've kind of been on
(12:20):
this journey literally our entire lives. And if you look
at the rest of my circle, I've got India, who's
my manager right over a decade.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Is that common? Is it common to have female managers?
In the sport.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
No, No, I don't think it is most of the time,
especially not independent ones.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
And so you know, for me it was important though.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I always found that black women, especially ones who are
your friends and know who you are and are capable,
will look out for you, you know, and are trying
to get your best interests.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And so what I've tried to do is align my interest.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
With theirs, and instead of paying you know, somebody twenty
percent who works for an agency that's not in my
best interests, I can pay you the same right, and
we can build this together.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
That's always my philosophy.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
And I found that the women around me have been
the most qualified and have been the strongest.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Right, incredible. Okay, so let's talk a little bit more
about the history. So draft pick, can you explain to
me what the hell because I see on television people
freaking out.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, essentially, every year you've got you know, guys that
graduate out of college or leave college that want to
go pro.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
So each team gets seven picks.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Essentially because there's a whole college football scene and all
the scouts are watching.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, college football program is just a theater program to
the NFL, so they weed out all of the weaker
ones and pluck out the ones that they think are
going to be the best. And now they go through
an evaluation process. All thirty two teams get seven picks. Wow,
and then there you go.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Got it?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So you got picked at some point, right? And you
were picked by Saint Louis.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Or were you picked up by New Orleans Saints?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
The New Orleans Saints?
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Right?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
All right? Did you end up finishing college?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I actually had the opportunity to leave college early, and
I decided to stay at Ohio State for another year.
I wanted to get my degree, and honestly, all I
was having too much fun. I thoroughly enjoyed my college experience,
did you And I knew the NFL just it felt
like it was going to be business when I got there,
until I wanted to appreciate the last bit of kind
(14:31):
of amateurism of the game, which I did, and I'm
glad I did you know? It was one of those
things I got to the league, I felt more prepared
for the situation outside of.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Sports, right, Besides the sports you played in college, did
you find that your college education prepared you for life
in some particular way?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Not necessarily the things I learned in class. No more so. No,
never I did to davigate amongst you know, people, how
to network, how to you know, collaborate those things. I
think it definitely helped, you know, get you some skills
to do that. But the majority of things I learned
was through the game of football, of course, and then of.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Course, you know, and being in the locker room and
being in business meetings and being on the field and
traveling and all that. I mean, because I remember that too.
I remember I went to design school and I didn't
know what the hell I mean, Like, I learned stuff like,
but it was not the same when you go out
into the real world is when you kind of learn
what it's all about. Right, And then you played at
(15:36):
that team and then you switched teams, Like, what, how
many teams have you played on?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Only in your career?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I've been only too, unfortunately, Yeah, only two.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
I went.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I started with the Saints and then that contract ended
and I was pretty much unemployed, and then the Eagle
signed me. I was there for six years and then
double back to the Saints for my last two seasons.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right, yeah, tell me about that, because I wonder how
you program yourself. Right, you are this person who like
is so devoted to the Saints, right, and then you
go play for the Eagles because you're making more money,
or they give you a better position, or it's just
better for Malcolm Jenkins to go there?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
What's that like?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And then you kind of have to finally admit, no, no,
you know what it's about the Saints.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I started with the Saints. Tell me about that a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, I think people don't really talk about that much,
you know, the psyche, what happens to the psyche in.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Different locker rooms.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
It feels almost like when you're a new kid at
school or changing jobs and all of a sudden, you know,
you have to come into the way people do things,
and it's always awkward going back to the job that
firs you before.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Oh really, I was imagining it would be like this
fabulous like homecoming where they'd have like, you know, cheerleaders
with pompoms, like welcome back Malcolm.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You know, I do think that's that's kind of how
it felt. But internally, as the one, you almost feel
a little jaded, like, I know, not to believe too
hard and all it is right, You wow yourself to
buy back into like, Okay, yeah, we're family, it's team
because there's this constant tension as an athlete where especially
(17:14):
a professional one, where everything you do in the team
sport is about the team. First, you try to humble
yourself and prioritize the team, but at the same time
you have to manage your body and its ability to perform.
So right, you know, you have to make decisions if
you're healthy or not. You have to make decisions about
your contract and if you're getting compensated the way you
(17:35):
want to. And so there's this this cross between business
and family that, depending on the situation, can change.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
When you return to the Saints, was it a different
organization because a lot of times that happens, like people
move and everybody moves, and all of a sudden, it's
like a whole new was that there.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It was a lot of change since I had been
there it was like six years, but a lot of
the core guys will still there.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Sean Payton, who's the head coach, was there.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Drew Brees was still there, and a few guys Cam Jordan,
a few other players that I played with were still there.
So there was some familiar faces and it didn't take
long to get back into it, but it did take
a conscious effort for me to say, like, Okay, this
one it's not the same team that I'm used to,
so I've got to give this new situation some space
(18:22):
to breathe. But also they have to realize that I'm
not the same me who was here before. Like I've
been gone and I come back a different person. And
so there was like a little you know, like trying
of the jigsaw a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Okay, so you are a massively successful athlete, right, You've
won what is that thing called you want to win
the super Bowl?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Exactly, I mean it. You see what I'm saying, Like I.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Would have said the World Series, because that's why. But
you won what one super Bowl or two super Bowl?
Two super Bowls?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And I think it was when you were a rookie, Right,
you were a rookie the first time. Was there a
failure or a setback that you learned from plenty?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I think my whole book is literally about what winners
won't tell you, and all it is is the seventh
But no, I think one of the things that I
think is a common thread that I've had to do
throughout my whole life. And I think it's something that
most of us have to do and sometimes get challenged with,
is reinventing you know yourself right either through you know
(19:24):
you've tried something and you fail, and you either can
sit there and rest here or you can adjust. You know.
Sometimes we have to grow towards something. Sometimes we have
to grow away from habits. And I think for me
having to change positions. In my mind, I thought I
was going to be a corner, which is the best athlete.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
On the field.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
He gets the most on the defense, He's got the
most bravado and swagger. I'm like, I want to be
that guy. And having to hear everyone tell me that
now you're not good enough to do that, and then actually, wow,
this changed, you know. I had to sit in that like,
okay what they said, is it true? I'm still battling that,
(20:02):
But it's like, you know what, I can make the
best out of the situation I have while I keep
preparing for other opportunities. And so even though I was
playing out of position for a couple of years, I
had continued to work on my craft for my own time,
and by the time I got to another situation and
that opportunity presenting itself for me to play like the
position that I wanted.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
My career flourished.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So it's just one of those things where you got
to stay patient and take those setbacks. You got to
be humble enough to just stay in the moment and
understand that you know, life ebbs and flows you when
you reap and just you know, understand what season you're in.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
This is unbelievable to me because when I hear that,
I feel there are so many similarities between everyone's life
and also the similarities between making art or something, or
making a show or making anything that anyone does. Really,
there are so many similarities. Talk to me about that
for a minute. Like discipline and inspiration, what do they
(21:01):
mean to you as an athlete?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I think you know, discipline I think is the most
important thing out of anything. Inspiration comes easy with sports.
Right we're in front of a lot of people. You're
going to be inspired to give your best when you
there's one hundred thousand people in the crowd, it paid
a lot of money, you look cool. It's a lot
to be inspired. I get inspired by a failure or
(21:27):
somebody telling me I can't do something adversity inspires me
to fight back. But when inspiration is dead, because that's
usually like a peak.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
When it's dead, the only thing you have then is discipline.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
When nobody's watching you, you know, are you still putting
in your time when you fail and people aren't saying
you're good? Are you still putting in your time when
you're winning and you're successful and everybody's saying that you're
the best? Are you still putting in the time? And
then you realize that, like discipline is. We love the
motivational peaks or they give us the boot, but you
(22:00):
don't live there. You kind of try to live in
the middle where you're not high, you're low. You're focused
on the process, right, and wow, performance.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Is just it's just the expiration.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
It's the manifestation of the process, and you're just continuing
to try and try and get.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I have a question for you.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
This is like completely personal, but and if you don't
want to answer, you are you religious?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
So I am not anymore. I talk about my my
battles with religion. And I went from you know, filling
out a form in school and it tells you, you know,
what religion are you?
Speaker 4 (22:42):
And like you know what's this. You're Christian? Duh, right, like.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Implicity?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yeah yeah, But then but I talk about how closely
religion is intertwined with sports, especially when you up the ranks.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
But just my my.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Love for history and science and the world just really
conflicts with organized religion. So I'm at a place where
I just I accept that there is a creator of
all of this, but that I can find all those
messages in the things that are created, so I can
look in nature and get the message. I can look
in relationships with people and see the patterns because it's
(23:28):
all around us. So I've put down kind of the
organized religions and really just focused on what the creator
has created, right.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Your own spirituality, your own belief in the creator. And
you don't like, well, because you don't really make touchdowns
as a safety you stop people from making.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Touchdowns right every now and then, you know, I had to.
I was fortunate enough to score eight touchdowns in my career,
so you know, come up, well you can, you know,
you can make it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That sounds so little to me. Eight touchdowns like that
sounds like fucking nothing. Right, Sorry, but wait a minute,
but you don't do that, like you know that kiss
to God thing that like a lot of athletes do
when they make a score, when they make a goal,
because that's annoying.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I have to say.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's like it doesn't make me love an athlete any less,
but like, really, God, really you're bringing God into this.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
There was there was a time where I was one
of those athletes, like for sure, where I truly believed
like if I, you know, did anything wrong that week,
I might have watched too much pouring that week and
it was like, oh, have my game is all, Oh
my god, I knew it.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Wow, I love it.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Can I ask you a really really outside, outside, outside question,
because I know that there are certain gay football players,
right I know that some of them have come out.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Are there more than we know about? Are there less?
What do we think?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I think I think, you know, my time in the league,
I came in in two thousand and nine and twenty
twenty three, I think the conversation around it is completely
turned around, and I'm completely yeah. But I do think
that there's still probably probably you know, it's not the
safest environment to come out in workly, you know, And
(25:07):
I don't think it's a thing where you know, the
locker rooms will be unaccepted, especially in this environment. But
I just think it's you know, coming through football, you know,
processes and programs where everybody's you know, built to be
this hyper masculine person.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yes, you know, it.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Wouldn't be surprising if there are you know, more guy's
high rights than we know. But hopefully, you know, the
environment is changing, the conversation is changing enough where those
type of things don't even matter.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
They don't matter.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I mean, hopefully in the next twenty years it won't
matter so much. And in the meantime, you know, because
even on Ted Lastso did you watch that show Ted Last?
So I know it's not about this kind of football,
it's about that kind of football, But there was that
whole kind of subplot about the gay player and now
he came out. It was really beautiful. And I know
it's a tiny, tiny, little fraction of your experience of
(26:00):
the game, but to me, it's something like that's important.
And by the way, like you know, I can't think
of one baseball player that has actually come out. It's
funny that football players come out, whereas like baseball play.
Can you think of one gay baseball player? I can't
think of one.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
No, how about that?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Okay, Sorry, I didn't mean to divert this to be
completely about me, But I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Get back into this now.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The idea of playing the game of football, which is
not the least violent game. Right, you are very prone
to injuries, more than baseball, more than any particular sport,
more than tennis, more than anything. How do you justify
this kind of violence in that game?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, you don't justify it.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
No, you don't justify it. It just is what it is.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
It's one of those games where it is violent, I think,
and the more you try to get away from that,
the more confusing the experience is. Right, but it is
a very island game, and you know, everybody who plays,
one hundred percent of players will get hurt at some point.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And that's it. That's it. You will get hurt.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
But I kept getting hurt, like year and a year,
I was just missing a few games. I kept getting
bad pinsons in my nerves and my neck. And it
was because I was trying to like convince myself to
play this like gladiator sport and punish people. And then
I changed the way that I played the game and
I stopped trying to hurt people, and I stopped getting hurt.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
So it was It's one of those games where it is.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Because of what like, because you all of a sudden
were strategizing differently as summer, you approach it different.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So instead of just throwing my body into you, I
might just grab your legs and wrap and roll.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
And that's that's way easier and more effective.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
You know, I can do it more and more, and
I can I can last longer as opposed to trying
to punish you.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Now, the crowd might not like it, but.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Ah see doesn't get to.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Say, yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
They like the violence, which which is something you know.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It's like think about how people loved to watch boxing,
thinking about how people loved to watch Roman Gladiators or
whatever that was. But this idea of your changing your
strategy was that because the game changed and people were
more aware of the violence. It is because you just
got older and you got smarter.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I think I got older and got smarter. I saw Seattle.
The Seahawks were a team I was watching. They had
the Legion of Boom and they were winning Super Bowls,
and I used to study how their secondary and how
they would tackle, and they were so efficient at getting
people on the ground, and they hit people. They were physical,
but they were like really good at just getting people
to the ground. And one off season I learned that
(28:38):
they were using a rugby style tackle that was so
much more efficient, right, wow, instead of what I've been
taught my entire life and kept your head and neck
out of the tackle so you didn't get the concussions
or the stingers that I was dealing with. And so
I changed my style, and then not only was I
more effective at tackling, but I lasted longer. I went
(28:59):
eight straight season and without missing a game, which is
like unheard of.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
That is amazing. Like even I think that's amazing. Okay,
like I who knows nothing about the game. But speaking
of the game itself and speaking of your time in
the NSL, I look at the entertainment business, and I
look at the fashion business, and it's changed a lot,
you know, and there are things I miss about it,
(29:25):
and there are things I wish I could, you know,
bring back, et cetera. Do you look at the business
and go, yeah, when I was a kid, it was
just different, and now has it changed?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
You know, I've been out of now the sport for
a year and a half and it feels like it's
almost unrecognizable, like right, And I think I've been comfortable
with like letting it go, understanding I had my moment
in influencing where the sport went, where my team went,
where the fan bases went.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
How so how has it moved on, Darling, I've moved on,
you know, you know, right, So it's like my time
as an athlete is over with a lot of us
struggle and because here's the mind, you know, game that
you have to deal with is you've been an athlete
your whole life and then you retire or they you're
out of the league and you're no longer an athlete
(30:19):
if you're not on the team, you know, are you
an athlete?
Speaker 3 (30:22):
And people do struggle with that feeling like being now
an outsider of course, and you know, so for me,
it's it's been like trying to embrace that idea, like, yeah,
these are new names, there's records will be broken.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
New champions. I had my time and I'm.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Grateful for that, and then now it's like it's time
for me to figure out how to do something else
in another space. And I think like you talked about
art and sports, and I've been collecting art over the
last year and a half, and I see there is
this connection, or at least this parallel between artists and
athletes reinventing of oneself. Especially after you've made, let's say,
(31:01):
a masterpiece. You've made like the work that has put
you on the map. You want to stay in that pocket, right,
you want to you know, well on it, but really
that artist for the people like you push that out
and now you've got to do it again and do
it better, and so there's a reinvention that you have
to do constantly. And I think, you know, we don't
really see that as athletes. We see athletes as this
(31:23):
one thing for the rest of their lives, right, And
it's really not the case.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
But I feel like that's because athletes see themselves as that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
It's like I know a lot of dancers.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I like three quarters of my friends are ballet dancers
or modern dancers, and they just never leave the subject
of dance. Like they stop dancing at a certain crucial
point in their lives, not unlike yourself, right, Like they
stop very young and they become teachers and they become repetatory.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You know, they become these.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
People who go to the show every night, you know,
whatever it is, and you don't want to do any
kind of coaching or anything to do with.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I have those urges, but I think those things feel
safe to me, So I'm trying to stay away from
the knee jerk reaction to go to them. And I
think the struggle is because what mixed athletes and entertainers.
I think that urge so strong is because we are
introduced to these ideas, that identities so much earlier than
everybody else. Is like, right, at what point in your
(32:22):
life are grown adults, you know, hovering around your talent?
You know, I've like I've been playing two years old.
I've been an athlete, an athlete, athlete, athlete, so now
you know, I'm in my mid thirties and it's like,
well what am I now? So for me, luckily that's
author business.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh yeah, and you're having no problem kind of transitioning.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
A lot of a lot of guys don't have or
haven't set up those those other lanes of their own identity.
I think that's that's really where I hope kind of
like my story, you know, showcases or you know, clears
the path forwards for athletes to look differently followed the
model of like a Lebron.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Michael Bennett, who is now a full time artist.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I find even like Naniassima, he played corner for the
Raiders back in the day.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I have never heard that name before in my life.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Okay, and he starred in Sylvie's Love.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
My favorite movies. It was a cornerback that I was
trying to be like.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
And so I'm like, we have to change kind of
the model athletes to who we champion.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
And so for me, I like the champion.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
The Ernie Barneses of the world, guys who played in
the NFL and became phenomenal artists, exactly expected in their
fields outside of sports.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
All right, so now let's go back for a minute.
You have these amazing opportunities because you're famous, right and
because you made some nice money, and so you have
a kind of autonomy. Without getting too maudlin, were their
drawbacks to being famous.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Anybody who is close to me knows I don't enjoy
being famous.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Introverted person. I don't really I get drained by being
around people, especially people I don't know. So yes, being
recognized everywhere you go, and yeah, you know, I spend
a lot of time with people, Like we'll do my
book signings. Afterwards, I'll talk to every single person in
the room. That's just who I am.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
But that does you're crazy, but it is crazy.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
It is exhausting, you know, like from an energetic standpoint.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
So you know, it has its drawbacks, but obviously it's
afforded me, you know, opportunities that most of the time
I wouldn't have had. But it also is something that
you've got to fight against because people will give you opportunities,
but certain opportunities, right, Like they'll respect you for your celebrity,
but not for.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Your intelligence or your creativity.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And so there is a little bit of, you know,
having to block some of those opportunities because of their
dead ends. Right They're like, we'll just keep you in
this badly box and you can endure that. Right. Oh God,
don't sit on our board, you know, like, don't, oh.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Darlings, talk to me about that, talk to me about
type casting. It's such a bore, you know, how people
just want you to be one thing for the rest
of your life, you know. And then I think about
when I met my husband Arnold right, I was walking
down the street walking my dog and we you know,
kind of made eye contact and we met right and
immediately I could sense that he was not this creepy
(35:32):
kind of you know, fan, who wanted to meet me
and who wanted to whatever he wanted to do. So
as a single guy, is it more more difficult or
less difficult to meet women?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Well, I think you know where I'm at, having like
met someone been married, had two kids and now divorce
and as a single father, you I was like, oh,
the next, the next one. You know, I've got to
redo my evaluation process, you know, right right, because time
is of the essence, so right now, you know, it's
one of those things I don't give time to people
(36:08):
that don't see the potential in and and really, you know,
for me, I had to define what that looks like,
what am I valuing right now? And that took some time.
I had to do that by myself and spend you know,
some time soul searching. But yeah, dating is a dating
is a little weird nowadays. On this side of things.
You got the you know, the family dynamics that are right,
(36:29):
and then you've got a lot of women want to
build their families that their own.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
And and by the way, you're so young for someone
who retired, you're retired rather young, let's face it, the
right word.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, I just know it's not I'm sorry, that's what That's.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
What everybody uses. But to your point, I'm thirty five,
you know I'm not. That's that's playing golf every day.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, like, even as an injured athlete, you still have
a good ten years if you wanted to play the game.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And I know that.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I was no.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
And that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
When I turned thirty, they started calling me o g
like that. When you're thirty, you're old.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Okay, but now so but you're old and you're famous
and now you're dating and you have kids?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Right, what is that? Like? How do you justify kids
and fame?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Does that come into it? How does that affect?
Speaker 4 (37:21):
My kids?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Don't even know half of it. They ask me all
the time like that, why is everybody like you, Chris
about any of it?
Speaker 4 (37:30):
But you know, I keep it that way. We're really
like simple.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
When I have my girls, I usually have them two
weeks out of the month, so like a fifty to
fifty kind of custody thing and uh huh, just me
and him. I'm taking them to school, picking them up.
We've got the soccer activities.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
And you shield them from stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I mean, do you ever get hounded by paparazzi or
I mean, does that ever happen?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (37:52):
The good thing is like here in New Orleans, people
are chill, like you know, people will come over and
maybe take a picture and say hello and things of
that nature. But no one's really like hounding you. It's
not a situation where I ever felt like, you know,
my kids are affected and Philly.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Philly is the same way.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
So you know, it's it's just enough where they know, like, hey,
Dad's important, but not I'm not.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Michael Jackson, got it.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So listen, I personally am obsessed with obituaries. That's the
first thing I read every single morning, and I think
about my obituary all the time.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Do you do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Not my obituary, but I do think about you know,
what I'm.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Leaving behind, and yeah, what people with legacy?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Well, if you if you were to write your own obituary,
what would it say?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
What would the headline be? Do you have any ideas
about that? Or what.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
At this point in time. It would be.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
At this point in time, right, because I think of
that all the time. Like, if I were to drop
dead tomorrow, I would hate my obituary, like I still
haven't really accomplished what I want to be remembered for.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, it would be cut short for sure. But I
think where I am now is just that, like life
is a piece of art. It's like you have to
be intentional with every step. That's where I'm at with
my life, where you feel like the more I learn
about art, you'll see like abstraction and you'll be like, man,
I could do that when you realize that, no, every stroke,
(39:24):
every you know, meticulous piece was there with intention, even
if it was slopped on there, there was neat to that.
It's like a lot of us go through life like that,
Like I like, we just passed through the details, and
it's like, no, make every mark with intention, take every
step with intention, and hopefully my obituary when somebody's writing it,
you know, has that at its core.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
And now this is a question that I think I
sort of saved to the end to talk to you
about because I think it's the most relevant question for
you out of all of them, which is about like
what you're going to do, what your future holds, because
I think that you are extremely philanthropic, you're extremely civil minded,
but as a person, like what do you really want
(40:08):
to get out of life that you haven't gotten?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Like, where are you going, Darling? Tell me where you're going?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yeah, I think I think it's there is no destination.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I think it's an expanding like I don't want to
go in a straight line. I want to just continue
to widen. And so what that looks like is I
loved writing this book, writing any writing. I started a
production company a couple of years ago. I listened to media.
We've already got documentaries there. So storytelling and teaching are
(40:38):
really where what I do the most of. Even in football,
I'm always like teaching the young guys or talking with coaches.
So for me, it's about like storytelling and giving information
in ways that are digestible.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And are different.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
So whether that's art, music, whether it's you know, talking
politics or talking financial literacy, there's so much, so many
things that I've learned through my experience, and I know
that my experience can be taught and is needed to
be you know, taught to people behind me. So it's
not only my job to teach, but it's also my
job to live these experiences.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
So you'll see a little bit of both of that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Right, Okay, So, like you don't have this dream of
being like you know, I don't know what, like Liza Minellius, Like,
You're not going to go on stage and become like
a fabulous entertainer, or you're not going to become like
some great writer. You're not going to become like Maya
Angelou and write like this fabulous tome of poetry.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Maybe I don't know if I don't know about Maya Angelou,
but I do think Manelli. But I am a person.
I am a person that no matter what it is
I'm doing, I'm it's going to be one hundred percent.
So if it's the next book, it's going to be
with the attempts of being you know, up there with
the greatest. If it's you know, fashion, if it's Philanthroy business,
(41:50):
whatever it is, I'm.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Going to go hard at it.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Right But you know, right now I'm at a place
where I'm trying to figure out exactly where that is
I see.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Okay, Well, Darling, What would you like to promote on
this podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah, I just want people to read the book What
Winners Won't Tell You. You can go When Winners Won'tell
You dot com to see. We're still doing events around
the country, doing some fireside chats and book signings.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
You can get your book there.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Oh look, someone's coming. She's excited.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
That's my dog. I talk about her in the book.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I have a dog.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I'm surprised that the dog hasn't started barking sooner.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
All right, Well, you're a doll. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So that conversation, I thought was so incredible because I
kind of stuck to this idea that I had originally,
which was like, you know, okay, so you know nothing
about football, approach him as though he's some kind of
artist or entertainer, and the line of questioning sort of
stayed within that realm. And then at some point I
(42:57):
asked him about discipline and inspiration and he just kind
of grasped onto that and gave us such an incredible,
incredible summation and kind of thesis about those words and
how they kind of run through everybody's life, whether you're
a certified public accountant or an artist or an athlete.
(43:19):
You know, it was very, very like incredibly gratifying from me,
and I'm only glad that you all were with me
to hear all of that and to witness that.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Thank you for listening, darlings.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
If you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and
tell someone, Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin,
tell everyone you know.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Okay, and be sure to rate the show. I love
rating stuff.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kinds, follow
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
(44:12):
And by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I Am Isaac MSRADI. This is Isaac Misrahi.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Thank you, I love you, and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
The series is hosted by me Isaac Musrahi, Hello Isaac,
is produced by Robin Geltenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
(44:44):
Burton and John Assanti. Vis Executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Carral Welker and Nathan Kloke at Imagine Audio,
Production management from Katie Hodges, Sound design and mixing by
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Wilson. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah Katmak and I AM
(45:05):
Entertainment
Darlings.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I have a few shows coming up, firstly at Cafe
Carlisle on November twenty eighth and twenty ninth. The show
is called It's Beginning to Look a lot like Isaac,
And in case you didn't realize, that's going to sort
of be like a little holiday show, So it's going
to be totally fun. My band stories, I'm gonna regift
because it's around the holidays and I need to make
(00:23):
room for my new regifting, So there's that. Also, I
have another show on December one in Stony Brook, which
is in New York, and that's going to be really
fun too. Please go to my website Hello Isaac to
get tickets.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello Isaac dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It is a very violent game. I kept getting hurt
like year and a year. I'm just missing few games.
I kept getting pinches in my nerves, in my neck,
and it was because I was trying to convince myself
to play this like gladiator sport and punish people.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
And then I.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Changed the way that I played the game, and I
stopped trying to hurt people and I stopped getting hurt.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi and
in this episode, I talked to two times Super Bowl
champion and former NFL star Malcolm Jenkins.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Hello, Isaac, this is Malcolm Jenkins, two times Super Bowl champion,
now author. I heard that you were a huge football
fan and knew everything about football, so I can't wait
to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I have never been this terrified before like any podcast saping.
This is like Mount Everest or something. Today I'm talking
to this really famous and fabulous football star called Malcolm Jenkins, who,
on top of everything else, is so gorgeous to look at.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
But I know literally nothing, nothing, nothing about football. I
know a lot about baseball, and I really like baseball.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I watch it all the time. And thing is like,
you know, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Say I dislike football, because what's not to like about it?
But I don't understand it. Like I try to watch it,
I try to get what it's about, and the minute
I think I understand it, I find out that I
don't know what the hell I'm even thinking about or
looking at. You know, So this is going to be
like a great, big challenge for me. So come on
(02:23):
and let's get started because I can't waste another second.
Here we go, Malcolm Jenkins, Hi, what's going on for that?
Where am I finding you? Where do you live these days?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I actually bounce between Philadelphia and New Orleans, So I'm
in New Orleans right now, but I spent the time
between the two cities.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I see.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, now here's the thing, and I'm going to be
completely honest with you.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I am so scared to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You are the first football player I've ever like interviewed
in my entire life. And you know, I like certain sports.
I like to watch things I don't know, like I
like to watch tennis, and I like to sometimes watch football.
But I have literally no idea how to play the game,
and people have tried to explain to me. I know,
(03:11):
the object is to get the football from one side
of the you know field to the other and to
touch it down. I guess a touchdown, right? And you
played the position of safety right?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You know?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
If you talk to me about shortstop or something, I
completely understand what a shortstop is in baseball because I
watch baseball, but I have no idea what a safety.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
What is the job of a safety? Can you tell me?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Yeah, essentially, you know, like you said, the offense is
trying to get down the field and get a touchdown.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
The safety is the last line of the defense. So
he played.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
He is away from the ball, he's responsible to stop passes,
he tackles everybody, and oftentimes, because he's the furthest away,
he has the best vantage point, so he's often the
traffic controller for all of.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Right, So it's like goalie or something.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yeah, similar.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, but you just explained that and I completely understood it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I've been googling this all fucking morning, like safety safety,
I have no idea, And I'm telling you, when you're
watching the game, like you think you understand, and then
someone blows the whistle and you're like, well, why do
you do that? You know, it's like and then everything
changes and you thought you understood, but you didn't understand.
The thing I understand is like Friday night lights, which
is like my favorite shop, Like that's my That's the
(04:26):
extent to which I understand football. I'm sorry, but you know,
I think that athletes are so inspiring to me, and
I feel like what they accomplish and their kind of
like path in life is so much like the path
of an artist, and I'm used to interviewing artists and
(04:47):
entertainers and performers and writers and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And I had one incredible.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Triathlete on the show, but she ended up writing and
producing this movie, right, so we had that in common.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Like I honestly, I'm going.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
To interview you as though you are like an artist.
Let's start with a little bit of history.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay. First of all, you grew up where.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So I grew up in Pascatoy, New Jersey, actually right
where Rutgers University is located.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Right, and you went to school and you eventually became
like this incredible athlete in college.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, so a little bit a little bit more back
forward to that. I played football, you know.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
But really I got a scholarship because I lucked up
and went to a camp in which I like competed
against a bunch of receivers, right right. I get a
scholarship to go to Ohio State. And it's really there
that I really start to look at professionals. I didn't
think I was. I didn't have dreams of being in
the NFL. I didn't have dreams of play in college football.
I liked playing ball, and I was just kind of
(05:56):
competing and see where it took me.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And it took me quite a way.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
But you know, the thing I'm so interested in about
this trajectory is like, because for outsiders, like to me,
you don't come across as an outsider. You come in
as a full insider. Like you're fine looking, you're tall,
you have this gorgeous body, you play football, women's swoon,
men's swoon? How is it different? Like did you fix
(06:23):
your teeth? It's like, are your teeth because you have
gorgeous teeth.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I did have a gap that I closed.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, Okay, I like to be perfect trying.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
To ask you.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I think that's what exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
My whole book is literally about debunking that image that's
usually what we see out of athletes, and that's usually
never the case.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I opened up the book with a story of how
I was getting bullied and my grandmother had to push
me back outside. She literally locked the door and said, no,
go fight this bully, or you can't come in the house.
Because like that, that's where I learned my toughness from.
It's not macho, you know thing even and even football.
I hated football in the beginning. My favorite part of
(07:05):
the sport was, you know, you play pop Warn of
the Little League. At the end of the game, everybody
shakes hands and then it's a race to the concession
stand because they give up dogs and little quarter waters.
That was my favorite part of the day was the
hot dog order. So I win those races all the
time because I never got into games.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Right, this is amazing to me.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I don't understand, like, what could they possibly find to
bully you about as a little kid.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
That's just the neighborhood. You know, it wasn't necessarily a
picking on you type of thing. But I grew up
in a neighborhood where they were a ton of young
boys with brothers, and there was always this rule that
if anybody messages with your brother, you gotta go deal
with it. It was one of those things where you know,
I had to stand up to somebody who was picking
on my brother, even though I knew the consequences for me,
(07:55):
you know, facing somebody older than me, and my grandmother
is the one.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Who had to teach me that lessons.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
So right, that's an ongoing, you know thing that's a
misnomber as well. You think it's like the macho men,
and it's like oftentimes it's the women around those rights
who built them up.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Well, talk to me about your grandmother for a minute,
because I know she's an important figure in your life.
Why was it she who was the one to bolster
you and tell you to go? Why wasn't it like
your dad or your mom or something or your brother
even Well.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think that's that's where it comes from.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I come from a family that's matriarchy really on both sides.
And I even talk about my dad, there are things
that I've learned to understand about him, understanding more of
my grandmother and how she raised him as a single mother,
you know, working and doing things like that, sending him back,
giving him the same lessons she gave me with him
(08:45):
being an older brother. And then our relationship really grew
as I grew up. She was like my biggest fan,
you know, went from teaching me lessons to then like
cheering me on. You know, if I had issues in college,
I needed some money, she was going I call. And
then even you know her introducing me to black Greek
life and paternities and sororities. That was, you know, a
(09:05):
thing I didn't know She's somebody who's into art, who
loved to travel, so just even watching her was inspiring.
And then obviously she passed due to cancer, and I
talk about, you know, the struggles of that being my
support and in now losing that in a time of
my life where I'm like.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
On the biggest stage.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
But I do still you know, community and communicate with
her pretty pretty frequently.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
So she's a big part of my life.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's amazing to hear because I feel like, honestly, like
the whole story about being bullied and being so incredibly
influenced by women, right, I feel like men are so
much more influenced by women than they will admit. You know,
at least men that I like to talk to that
aren't you know, bullies themselves, right, that aren't afraid of women,
(09:52):
because I think misogyny is the worst.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I think to your point is it's not being afraid
of strong wins. I don't even have that luxury. My
family is.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Filled with them.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
So that's all I've ever known with strong women. You know,
my literally my mom, my two aunts, my grandmother, and
my cousin.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
They call themselves the Committee.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And so nothing happened, nothing happened my family, like unless
the committee. So you know, I can't even you know,
understand it when when people are afraid of strong women.
And now being a girl dad, you know, I understand
the importance of raising women who are not afraid to
be smart, who are not to be afraid to be ambitious.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
So yeah, that's that's just my life.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I have to say. One thing I really admire in
talking to you already is that you still have these
close relationships in your family.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Is that right?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yep?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, because for me not so much, you know, And
that's I think a big difference about being outside and inside.
Like I don't really speak to my sisters that much
because of the gay thing. That's a weird relationship. Whereas
you have this family that really cares for you and
cherishes you. Outside the family circle, are there people who
you feel are really really supportive and really really like
(11:08):
greats at such a Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
I think one of my biggest strengths is is the
friends I've acquired over my life, and I've been really
tight with a lot of them, and we've gone into
business and done great things. When you look at my
inner circle, it's really people I've known since kindergarten, and
my family's very, very supportive. But I even talk about,
you know, in my book, dealing with being the only
(11:33):
one with this kind of money, being the only one
going through this particular experience, right, and how isolating that
can be. And so you know, there are people that
can relate to that, where nobody and your family and
your experience, but then you've got all the responsibility and expectations.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I want to talk to you about that, like just
the whole idea of being so famous and the kind
of microscope that that puts you under. But before I
ask you that, do you have any women friends in
your life?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yeah? So one of my best friends in my entire life,
who's my business partner. Talk about her a lot in
the book. Her name is Worlanda. We've known each other
since literally kindergarten. Her daughters are my god kids, and
you know, we've been tight. Her husband, Joe is part
of the family now and we've kind of been on
(12:20):
this journey literally our entire lives. And if you look
at the rest of my circle, I've got India, who's
my manager right over a decade.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Is that common? Is it common to have female managers?
In the sport.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
No, No, I don't think it is most of the time,
especially not independent ones.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
And so you know, for me it was important though.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
I always found that black women, especially ones who are
your friends and know who you are and are capable,
will look out for you, you know, and are trying
to get your best interests.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And so what I've tried to do is align my interest.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
With theirs, and instead of paying you know, somebody twenty
percent who works for an agency that's not in my
best interests, I can pay you the same right, and
we can build this together.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
That's always my philosophy.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
And I found that the women around me have been
the most qualified and have been the strongest.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Right, incredible. Okay, so let's talk a little bit more
about the history. So draft pick, can you explain to
me what the hell because I see on television people
freaking out.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
What is it?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, essentially, every year you've got you know, guys that
graduate out of college or leave college that want to
go pro.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
So each team gets seven picks.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Essentially because there's a whole college football scene and all
the scouts are watching.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, college football program is just a theater program to
the NFL, so they weed out all of the weaker
ones and pluck out the ones that they think are
going to be the best. And now they go through
an evaluation process. All thirty two teams get seven picks. Wow,
and then there you go.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Got it?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
So you got picked at some point, right? And you
were picked by Saint Louis.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Or were you picked up by New Orleans Saints?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
The New Orleans Saints?
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Right?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
All right? Did you end up finishing college?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I actually had the opportunity to leave college early, and
I decided to stay at Ohio State for another year.
I wanted to get my degree, and honestly, all I
was having too much fun. I thoroughly enjoyed my college experience,
did you And I knew the NFL just it felt
like it was going to be business when I got there,
until I wanted to appreciate the last bit of kind
(14:31):
of amateurism of the game, which I did, and I'm
glad I did you know? It was one of those
things I got to the league, I felt more prepared
for the situation outside of.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Sports, right, Besides the sports you played in college, did
you find that your college education prepared you for life
in some particular way?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Not necessarily the things I learned in class. No more so. No,
never I did to davigate amongst you know, people, how
to network, how to you know, collaborate those things. I
think it definitely helped, you know, get you some skills
to do that. But the majority of things I learned
was through the game of football, of course, and then of.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Course, you know, and being in the locker room and
being in business meetings and being on the field and
traveling and all that. I mean, because I remember that too.
I remember I went to design school and I didn't
know what the hell I mean, Like, I learned stuff like,
but it was not the same when you go out
into the real world is when you kind of learn
what it's all about. Right, And then you played at
(15:36):
that team and then you switched teams, Like, what, how
many teams have you played on?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Only in your career?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
I've been only too, unfortunately, Yeah, only two.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
I went.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I started with the Saints and then that contract ended
and I was pretty much unemployed, and then the Eagle
signed me. I was there for six years and then
double back to the Saints for my last two seasons.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Right, yeah, tell me about that, because I wonder how
you program yourself. Right, you are this person who like
is so devoted to the Saints, right, and then you
go play for the Eagles because you're making more money,
or they give you a better position, or it's just
better for Malcolm Jenkins to go there?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
What's that like?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And then you kind of have to finally admit, no, no,
you know what it's about the Saints.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I started with the Saints. Tell me about that a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, I think people don't really talk about that much,
you know, the psyche, what happens to the psyche in.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Different locker rooms.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
It feels almost like when you're a new kid at
school or changing jobs and all of a sudden, you know,
you have to come into the way people do things,
and it's always awkward going back to the job that
firs you before.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Oh really, I was imagining it would be like this
fabulous like homecoming where they'd have like, you know, cheerleaders
with pompoms, like welcome back Malcolm.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You know, I do think that's that's kind of how
it felt. But internally, as the one, you almost feel
a little jaded, like, I know, not to believe too
hard and all it is right, You wow yourself to
buy back into like, Okay, yeah, we're family, it's team
because there's this constant tension as an athlete where especially
(17:14):
a professional one, where everything you do in the team
sport is about the team. First, you try to humble
yourself and prioritize the team, but at the same time
you have to manage your body and its ability to perform.
So right, you know, you have to make decisions if
you're healthy or not. You have to make decisions about
your contract and if you're getting compensated the way you
(17:35):
want to. And so there's this this cross between business
and family that, depending on the situation, can change.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
When you return to the Saints, was it a different
organization because a lot of times that happens, like people
move and everybody moves, and all of a sudden, it's
like a whole new was that there.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It was a lot of change since I had been
there it was like six years, but a lot of
the core guys will still there.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Sean Payton, who's the head coach, was there.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Drew Brees was still there, and a few guys Cam Jordan,
a few other players that I played with were still there.
So there was some familiar faces and it didn't take
long to get back into it, but it did take
a conscious effort for me to say, like, Okay, this
one it's not the same team that I'm used to,
so I've got to give this new situation some space
(18:22):
to breathe. But also they have to realize that I'm
not the same me who was here before. Like I've
been gone and I come back a different person. And
so there was like a little you know, like trying
of the jigsaw a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Okay, so you are a massively successful athlete, right, You've
won what is that thing called you want to win
the super Bowl?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Exactly, I mean it. You see what I'm saying, Like I.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Would have said the World Series, because that's why. But
you won what one super Bowl or two super Bowl?
Two super Bowls?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And I think it was when you were a rookie, Right,
you were a rookie the first time. Was there a
failure or a setback that you learned from plenty?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I think my whole book is literally about what winners
won't tell you, and all it is is the seventh
But no, I think one of the things that I
think is a common thread that I've had to do
throughout my whole life. And I think it's something that
most of us have to do and sometimes get challenged with,
is reinventing you know yourself right either through you know
(19:24):
you've tried something and you fail, and you either can
sit there and rest here or you can adjust. You know.
Sometimes we have to grow towards something. Sometimes we have
to grow away from habits. And I think for me
having to change positions. In my mind, I thought I
was going to be a corner, which is the best athlete.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
On the field.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
He gets the most on the defense, He's got the
most bravado and swagger. I'm like, I want to be
that guy. And having to hear everyone tell me that
now you're not good enough to do that, and then actually, wow,
this changed, you know. I had to sit in that like,
okay what they said, is it true? I'm still battling that,
(20:02):
But it's like, you know what, I can make the
best out of the situation I have while I keep
preparing for other opportunities. And so even though I was
playing out of position for a couple of years, I
had continued to work on my craft for my own time,
and by the time I got to another situation and
that opportunity presenting itself for me to play like the
position that I wanted.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
My career flourished.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So it's just one of those things where you got
to stay patient and take those setbacks. You got to
be humble enough to just stay in the moment and
understand that you know, life ebbs and flows you when
you reap and just you know, understand what season you're in.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
This is unbelievable to me because when I hear that,
I feel there are so many similarities between everyone's life
and also the similarities between making art or something, or
making a show or making anything that anyone does. Really,
there are so many similarities. Talk to me about that
for a minute. Like discipline and inspiration, what do they
(21:01):
mean to you as an athlete?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I think you know, discipline I think is the most
important thing out of anything. Inspiration comes easy with sports.
Right we're in front of a lot of people. You're
going to be inspired to give your best when you
there's one hundred thousand people in the crowd, it paid
a lot of money, you look cool. It's a lot
to be inspired. I get inspired by a failure or
(21:27):
somebody telling me I can't do something adversity inspires me
to fight back. But when inspiration is dead, because that's
usually like a peak.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
When it's dead, the only thing you have then is discipline.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
When nobody's watching you, you know, are you still putting
in your time when you fail and people aren't saying
you're good? Are you still putting in your time when
you're winning and you're successful and everybody's saying that you're
the best? Are you still putting in the time? And
then you realize that, like discipline is. We love the
motivational peaks or they give us the boot, but you
(22:00):
don't live there. You kind of try to live in
the middle where you're not high, you're low. You're focused
on the process, right, and wow, performance.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Is just it's just the expiration.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
It's the manifestation of the process, and you're just continuing
to try and try and get.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
I have a question for you.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
This is like completely personal, but and if you don't
want to answer, you are you religious?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
So I am not anymore. I talk about my my
battles with religion. And I went from you know, filling
out a form in school and it tells you, you know,
what religion are you?
Speaker 4 (22:42):
And like you know what's this. You're Christian? Duh, right, like.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Implicity?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yeah yeah, But then but I talk about how closely
religion is intertwined with sports, especially when you up the ranks.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
But just my my.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Love for history and science and the world just really
conflicts with organized religion. So I'm at a place where
I just I accept that there is a creator of
all of this, but that I can find all those
messages in the things that are created, so I can
look in nature and get the message. I can look
in relationships with people and see the patterns because it's
(23:28):
all around us. So I've put down kind of the
organized religions and really just focused on what the creator
has created, right.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Your own spirituality, your own belief in the creator. And
you don't like, well, because you don't really make touchdowns
as a safety you stop people from making.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Touchdowns right every now and then, you know, I had to.
I was fortunate enough to score eight touchdowns in my career,
so you know, come up, well you can, you know,
you can make it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That sounds so little to me. Eight touchdowns like that
sounds like fucking nothing. Right, Sorry, but wait a minute,
but you don't do that, like you know that kiss
to God thing that like a lot of athletes do
when they make a score, when they make a goal,
because that's annoying.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I have to say.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's like it doesn't make me love an athlete any less,
but like, really, God, really you're bringing God into this.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
There was there was a time where I was one
of those athletes, like for sure, where I truly believed
like if I, you know, did anything wrong that week,
I might have watched too much pouring that week and
it was like, oh, have my game is all, Oh
my god, I knew it.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Wow, I love it.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Can I ask you a really really outside, outside, outside question,
because I know that there are certain gay football players,
right I know that some of them have come out.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Are there more than we know about? Are there less?
What do we think?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I think I think, you know, my time in the league,
I came in in two thousand and nine and twenty
twenty three, I think the conversation around it is completely
turned around, and I'm completely yeah. But I do think
that there's still probably probably you know, it's not the
safest environment to come out in workly, you know, And
(25:07):
I don't think it's a thing where you know, the
locker rooms will be unaccepted, especially in this environment. But
I just think it's you know, coming through football, you know,
processes and programs where everybody's you know, built to be
this hyper masculine person.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Yes, you know, it.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Wouldn't be surprising if there are you know, more guy's
high rights than we know. But hopefully, you know, the
environment is changing, the conversation is changing enough where those
type of things don't even matter.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
They don't matter.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I mean, hopefully in the next twenty years it won't
matter so much. And in the meantime, you know, because
even on Ted Lastso did you watch that show Ted Last?
So I know it's not about this kind of football,
it's about that kind of football, But there was that
whole kind of subplot about the gay player and now
he came out. It was really beautiful. And I know
it's a tiny, tiny, little fraction of your experience of
(26:00):
the game, but to me, it's something like that's important.
And by the way, like you know, I can't think
of one baseball player that has actually come out. It's
funny that football players come out, whereas like baseball play.
Can you think of one gay baseball player? I can't
think of one.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
No, how about that?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Okay, Sorry, I didn't mean to divert this to be
completely about me, But I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Get back into this now.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
The idea of playing the game of football, which is
not the least violent game. Right, you are very prone
to injuries, more than baseball, more than any particular sport,
more than tennis, more than anything. How do you justify
this kind of violence in that game?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, you don't justify it.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
No, you don't justify it. It just is what it is.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
It's one of those games where it is violent, I think,
and the more you try to get away from that,
the more confusing the experience is. Right, but it is
a very island game, and you know, everybody who plays,
one hundred percent of players will get hurt at some point.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And that's it. That's it. You will get hurt.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
But I kept getting hurt, like year and a year,
I was just missing a few games. I kept getting
bad pinsons in my nerves and my neck. And it
was because I was trying to like convince myself to
play this like gladiator sport and punish people. And then
I changed the way that I played the game and
I stopped trying to hurt people, and I stopped getting hurt.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
So it was It's one of those games where it is.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Because of what like, because you all of a sudden
were strategizing differently as summer, you approach it different.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
So instead of just throwing my body into you, I
might just grab your legs and wrap and roll.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
And that's that's way easier and more effective.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
You know, I can do it more and more, and
I can I can last longer as opposed to trying
to punish you.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Now, the crowd might not like it, but.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Ah see doesn't get to.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Say, yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
They like the violence, which which is something you know.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It's like think about how people loved to watch boxing,
thinking about how people loved to watch Roman Gladiators or
whatever that was. But this idea of your changing your
strategy was that because the game changed and people were
more aware of the violence. It is because you just
got older and you got smarter.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
I think I got older and got smarter. I saw Seattle.
The Seahawks were a team I was watching. They had
the Legion of Boom and they were winning Super Bowls,
and I used to study how their secondary and how
they would tackle, and they were so efficient at getting
people on the ground, and they hit people. They were physical,
but they were like really good at just getting people
to the ground. And one off season I learned that
(28:38):
they were using a rugby style tackle that was so
much more efficient, right, wow, instead of what I've been
taught my entire life and kept your head and neck
out of the tackle so you didn't get the concussions
or the stingers that I was dealing with. And so
I changed my style, and then not only was I
more effective at tackling, but I lasted longer. I went
(28:59):
eight straight season and without missing a game, which is
like unheard of.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
That is amazing. Like even I think that's amazing. Okay,
like I who knows nothing about the game. But speaking
of the game itself and speaking of your time in
the NSL, I look at the entertainment business, and I
look at the fashion business, and it's changed a lot,
you know, and there are things I miss about it,
(29:25):
and there are things I wish I could, you know,
bring back, et cetera. Do you look at the business
and go, yeah, when I was a kid, it was
just different, and now has it changed?
Speaker 3 (29:37):
You know, I've been out of now the sport for
a year and a half and it feels like it's
almost unrecognizable, like right, And I think I've been comfortable
with like letting it go, understanding I had my moment
in influencing where the sport went, where my team went,
where the fan bases went.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
How so how has it moved on, Darling, I've moved on,
you know, you know, right, So it's like my time
as an athlete is over with a lot of us
struggle and because here's the mind, you know, game that
you have to deal with is you've been an athlete
your whole life and then you retire or they you're
out of the league and you're no longer an athlete
(30:19):
if you're not on the team, you know, are you
an athlete?
Speaker 3 (30:22):
And people do struggle with that feeling like being now
an outsider of course, and you know, so for me,
it's it's been like trying to embrace that idea, like, yeah,
these are new names, there's records will be broken.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
New champions. I had my time and I'm.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Grateful for that, and then now it's like it's time
for me to figure out how to do something else
in another space. And I think like you talked about
art and sports, and I've been collecting art over the
last year and a half, and I see there is
this connection, or at least this parallel between artists and
athletes reinventing of oneself. Especially after you've made, let's say,
(31:01):
a masterpiece. You've made like the work that has put
you on the map. You want to stay in that pocket, right,
you want to you know, well on it, but really
that artist for the people like you push that out
and now you've got to do it again and do
it better, and so there's a reinvention that you have
to do constantly. And I think, you know, we don't
really see that as athletes. We see athletes as this
(31:23):
one thing for the rest of their lives, right, And
it's really not the case.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
But I feel like that's because athletes see themselves as that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
It's like I know a lot of dancers.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
I like three quarters of my friends are ballet dancers
or modern dancers, and they just never leave the subject
of dance. Like they stop dancing at a certain crucial
point in their lives, not unlike yourself, right, Like they
stop very young and they become teachers and they become repetatory.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You know, they become these.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
People who go to the show every night, you know,
whatever it is, and you don't want to do any
kind of coaching or anything to do with.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I have those urges, but I think those things feel
safe to me, So I'm trying to stay away from
the knee jerk reaction to go to them. And I
think the struggle is because what mixed athletes and entertainers.
I think that urge so strong is because we are
introduced to these ideas, that identities so much earlier than
everybody else. Is like, right, at what point in your
(32:22):
life are grown adults, you know, hovering around your talent?
You know, I've like I've been playing two years old.
I've been an athlete, an athlete, athlete, athlete, so now
you know, I'm in my mid thirties and it's like,
well what am I now? So for me, luckily that's
author business.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh yeah, and you're having no problem kind of transitioning.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
A lot of a lot of guys don't have or
haven't set up those those other lanes of their own identity.
I think that's that's really where I hope kind of
like my story, you know, showcases or you know, clears
the path forwards for athletes to look differently followed the
model of like a Lebron.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Michael Bennett, who is now a full time artist.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I find even like Naniassima, he played corner for the
Raiders back in the day.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I have never heard that name before in my life.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Okay, and he starred in Sylvie's Love.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
My favorite movies. It was a cornerback that I was
trying to be like.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
And so I'm like, we have to change kind of
the model athletes to who we champion.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
And so for me, I like the champion.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
The Ernie Barneses of the world, guys who played in
the NFL and became phenomenal artists, exactly expected in their
fields outside of sports.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
All right, so now let's go back for a minute.
You have these amazing opportunities because you're famous, right and
because you made some nice money, and so you have
a kind of autonomy. Without getting too maudlin, were their
drawbacks to being famous.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Anybody who is close to me knows I don't enjoy
being famous.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Introverted person. I don't really I get drained by being
around people, especially people I don't know. So yes, being
recognized everywhere you go, and yeah, you know, I spend
a lot of time with people, Like we'll do my
book signings. Afterwards, I'll talk to every single person in
the room. That's just who I am.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
But that does you're crazy, but it is crazy.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
It is exhausting, you know, like from an energetic standpoint.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
So you know, it has its drawbacks, but obviously it's
afforded me, you know, opportunities that most of the time
I wouldn't have had. But it also is something that
you've got to fight against because people will give you opportunities,
but certain opportunities, right, Like they'll respect you for your celebrity,
but not for.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Your intelligence or your creativity.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
And so there is a little bit of, you know,
having to block some of those opportunities because of their
dead ends. Right They're like, we'll just keep you in
this badly box and you can endure that. Right. Oh God,
don't sit on our board, you know, like, don't, oh.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Darlings, talk to me about that, talk to me about
type casting. It's such a bore, you know, how people
just want you to be one thing for the rest
of your life, you know. And then I think about
when I met my husband Arnold right, I was walking
down the street walking my dog and we you know,
kind of made eye contact and we met right and
immediately I could sense that he was not this creepy
(35:32):
kind of you know, fan, who wanted to meet me
and who wanted to whatever he wanted to do. So
as a single guy, is it more more difficult or
less difficult to meet women?
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Well, I think you know where I'm at, having like
met someone been married, had two kids and now divorce
and as a single father, you I was like, oh,
the next, the next one. You know, I've got to
redo my evaluation process, you know, right right, because time
is of the essence, so right now, you know, it's
one of those things I don't give time to people
(36:08):
that don't see the potential in and and really, you know,
for me, I had to define what that looks like,
what am I valuing right now? And that took some time.
I had to do that by myself and spend you know,
some time soul searching. But yeah, dating is a dating
is a little weird nowadays. On this side of things.
You got the you know, the family dynamics that are right,
(36:29):
and then you've got a lot of women want to
build their families that their own.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
And and by the way, you're so young for someone
who retired, you're retired rather young, let's face it, the
right word.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, I just know it's not I'm sorry, that's what That's.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
What everybody uses. But to your point, I'm thirty five,
you know I'm not. That's that's playing golf every day.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, like, even as an injured athlete, you still have
a good ten years if you wanted to play the game.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And I know that.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
I was no.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
And that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
When I turned thirty, they started calling me o g
like that. When you're thirty, you're old.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Okay, but now so but you're old and you're famous
and now you're dating and you have kids?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Right, what is that? Like? How do you justify kids
and fame?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Does that come into it? How does that affect?
Speaker 4 (37:21):
My kids?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Don't even know half of it. They ask me all
the time like that, why is everybody like you, Chris
about any of it?
Speaker 4 (37:30):
But you know, I keep it that way. We're really
like simple.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
When I have my girls, I usually have them two
weeks out of the month, so like a fifty to
fifty kind of custody thing and uh huh, just me
and him. I'm taking them to school, picking them up.
We've got the soccer activities.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
And you shield them from stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I mean, do you ever get hounded by paparazzi or
I mean, does that ever happen?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (37:52):
The good thing is like here in New Orleans, people
are chill, like you know, people will come over and
maybe take a picture and say hello and things of
that nature. But no one's really like hounding you. It's
not a situation where I ever felt like, you know,
my kids are affected and Philly.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Philly is the same way.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
So you know, it's it's just enough where they know, like, hey,
Dad's important, but not I'm not.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Michael Jackson, got it.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So listen, I personally am obsessed with obituaries. That's the
first thing I read every single morning, and I think
about my obituary all the time.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Do you do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Not my obituary, but I do think about you know,
what I'm.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Leaving behind, and yeah, what people with legacy?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Right?
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Well, if you if you were to write your own obituary,
what would it say?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
What would the headline be? Do you have any ideas
about that? Or what.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
At this point in time. It would be.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
At this point in time, right, because I think of
that all the time. Like, if I were to drop
dead tomorrow, I would hate my obituary, like I still
haven't really accomplished what I want to be remembered for.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, it would be cut short for sure. But I
think where I am now is just that, like life
is a piece of art. It's like you have to
be intentional with every step. That's where I'm at with
my life, where you feel like the more I learn
about art, you'll see like abstraction and you'll be like, man,
I could do that when you realize that, no, every stroke,
(39:24):
every you know, meticulous piece was there with intention, even
if it was slopped on there, there was neat to that.
It's like a lot of us go through life like that,
Like I like, we just passed through the details, and
it's like, no, make every mark with intention, take every
step with intention, and hopefully my obituary when somebody's writing it,
you know, has that at its core.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
And now this is a question that I think I
sort of saved to the end to talk to you
about because I think it's the most relevant question for
you out of all of them, which is about like
what you're going to do, what your future holds, because
I think that you are extremely philanthropic, you're extremely civil minded,
but as a person, like what do you really want
(40:08):
to get out of life that you haven't gotten?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Like, where are you going, Darling? Tell me where you're going?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yeah, I think I think it's there is no destination.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I think it's an expanding like I don't want to
go in a straight line. I want to just continue
to widen. And so what that looks like is I
loved writing this book, writing any writing. I started a
production company a couple of years ago. I listened to media.
We've already got documentaries there. So storytelling and teaching are
(40:38):
really where what I do the most of. Even in football,
I'm always like teaching the young guys or talking with coaches.
So for me, it's about like storytelling and giving information
in ways that are digestible.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And are different.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
So whether that's art, music, whether it's you know, talking
politics or talking financial literacy, there's so much, so many
things that I've learned through my experience, and I know
that my experience can be taught and is needed to
be you know, taught to people behind me. So it's
not only my job to teach, but it's also my
job to live these experiences.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
So you'll see a little bit of both of that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Right, Okay, So, like you don't have this dream of
being like you know, I don't know what, like Liza Minellius, Like,
You're not going to go on stage and become like
a fabulous entertainer, or you're not going to become like
some great writer. You're not going to become like Maya
Angelou and write like this fabulous tome of poetry.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Maybe I don't know if I don't know about Maya Angelou,
but I do think Manelli. But I am a person.
I am a person that no matter what it is
I'm doing, I'm it's going to be one hundred percent.
So if it's the next book, it's going to be
with the attempts of being you know, up there with
the greatest. If it's you know, fashion, if it's Philanthroy business,
(41:50):
whatever it is, I'm.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Going to go hard at it.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Right But you know, right now I'm at a place
where I'm trying to figure out exactly where that is
I see.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Okay, Well, Darling, What would you like to promote on
this podcast.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah, I just want people to read the book What
Winners Won't Tell You. You can go When Winners Won'tell
You dot com to see. We're still doing events around
the country, doing some fireside chats and book signings.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
You can get your book there.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Oh look, someone's coming. She's excited.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
That's my dog. I talk about her in the book.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I have a dog.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I'm surprised that the dog hasn't started barking sooner.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
All right, Well, you're a doll. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So that conversation, I thought was so incredible because I
kind of stuck to this idea that I had originally,
which was like, you know, okay, so you know nothing
about football, approach him as though he's some kind of
artist or entertainer, and the line of questioning sort of
stayed within that realm. And then at some point I
(42:57):
asked him about discipline and inspiration and he just kind
of grasped onto that and gave us such an incredible,
incredible summation and kind of thesis about those words and
how they kind of run through everybody's life, whether you're
a certified public accountant or an artist or an athlete.
(43:19):
You know, it was very, very like incredibly gratifying from me,
and I'm only glad that you all were with me
to hear all of that and to witness that.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Thank you for listening, darlings.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
If you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and
tell someone, Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin,
tell everyone you know.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Okay, and be sure to rate the show. I love
rating stuff.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kinds, follow
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
(44:12):
And by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I Am Isaac MSRADI. This is Isaac Misrahi.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Thank you, I love you, and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
The series is hosted by me Isaac Musrahi, Hello Isaac,
is produced by Robin Geltenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
(44:44):
Burton and John Assanti. Vis Executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Carral Welker and Nathan Kloke at Imagine Audio,
Production management from Katie Hodges, Sound design and mixing by
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Wilson. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah Katmak and I AM
(45:05):
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