February 26, 2024 • 48 mins
Isaac Mizrahi talks to actor, writer, producer and director, Ashley Williams (“How I Met Your Mother,“ Hallmark Movies) about the craziest setback that led to her becoming a director, the horrible thing a cameraman once said to her and how she was inappropriate at a puppy party. Plus, they imagine what Isaac would be like as a doula and much more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Do you want to become a certified doula?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I do. I wouldn't that be amazing? Oh? Come on already,
come on, already, push.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
You'd be like, what are you wearing?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
What do you do it? Come push already. God, by
the way, this is disgusting. And maybe a little maybe
a little Brazilian while we're here, you know, maybe just
a little brazilious. Yeah, exactly, beauty t This is Hello Isaac,
my podcast about the idea of success and how failure
(00:36):
affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi, and in this episode I
talk to actor, writer, producer, and director Ashley Williams.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hello Isaac, It's Ashley Williams. I am going to come
and be on your show, and I'm going to try
not to fanger all too much because I think I've
seen them zipped one hundred and forty seven times. Anyway,
I love you. I hope I don't talk to my
or maybe I want a doctor.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What as four guests that I am meeting for the
first time. This is very, very exciting to me because
I am a big fan of Ashley Williams, mostly because well,
I like love everything she's ever done, and I love
the Hallmark Channel. And I love her as a director,
(01:23):
and I love her as a movie star, and I
think she's so pretty and funny. But on top of
everything else, she's really a multi hyphen it. You know,
if you look into her, you will find that she
has like written articles that advocate for women, she's a
dog lover, she's a dog rescue advocate, et cetera. And
so I feel like, from one multi hyphen it to another,
(01:47):
I think we have a lot to talk about. So
let's waste not another second. Here we go Ashley Williams.
First of all, you're so pretty, Like, you're so much prettier.
You have like really good skin. What is so funny?
Does people ever remark pretty? No?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
What's funny to me is because I do get this
a lot. I get like, you're so much prettier in person,
You're so much pretty. I get you're so much tinier
in person. I get that a lot. But thank you.
I mean, you know, it's just my old face.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I don't know, it's so fresh, and you have such
gorgeous teeth and such gorgeous eyebrows, and it's all it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Thank you. I wore braces for like eleven years lucky,
so they they better look amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
You see, guess what I didn't wear braceis my sister
had braces and she had her nose fixed. So I
don't know why they just stopped with my sister.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You know, they probably ran out of money at that.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Point, exactly exactly, and we're done. So wait, can we
talk a little bit about your history? Like where are
you from? Originally I think you're from the East Coast.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I was born in Youngers and we lived right on
the border of Bronxviill and Youngers, so my mother called
it Broncers. And my parents were writers. My dad was
a journalist, went to Columbia Journalism School and then worked
at news Day and my mother same deal, worked at
Newsday as well, and they fell in love and then
(03:17):
they had my older sister and my older sister, she's dropped.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
About that second gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Okay, okay, Well it's like the kind of gorgeous where
it's like stop her on the street. But this is
the thing, was I was kimberly face. Yeah, and so
people would be like, is she a model? And my
mom would be like, well, she's available. You know, we're
open and then the little sister would come peeking up
(03:48):
from behind with like gnarled up teeth and be like, Hi,
what about me? But yeah, we were in younkers. We
lived right next door to a soap opera star, and
we you were enamored. I mean, this woman, first of all,
she has an emmy. Her name is Anna Hoolebrook. She's
still a very close friend. But she was so inspiring
(04:09):
because she was a working actress, you know. So she
actually took some pictures of my older sister and brought
them into her own agency and said, do you want
to wrap this girl? They said sure? And then she
auditioned for a US dairy commercial in the eighties, and
she booked it. Of course, she made something like fifty
(04:31):
thousand dollars in one day.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I mean, this was the eighties when you could make money,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
On some commercials.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, on anything, it's sort of all over it's yeah, exactly.
But my mother was like, holy crap, that's your college.
You're all doing this so unreal. So Anna Holbrook, the
soap star, took photos of all of us. We all
got agents and we all started working in commercials, and honestly,
(05:03):
it was kind of through Anna and the soap world
in Manhattan, because then I was on a soap opera
and my brother and I were doing print and you know,
but like we were ten in you know, in the
early nineties. Yeah, it was such a such a good
time in New York.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
As you know, it was a very very good time.
But the first thing I want to know is, like
what appealed to you? Like what in you just went like,
oh that's it.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I mean, listen, coming from the child of two writers, right,
you know, we were like my dad talked about like
he was selling Dennis the Menace cartoons for a little
while for ten dollars a pop. You know, like at
one point we were like boiling soup bones and that
was dinner. You know, it was it was an intense time.
And then honestly, it was this woman that we lived
(05:51):
next door to you who made a career out of
something that just seemed so wonderfully creative. Yeah, exactly. And
also she was a normal person. So it was the
idea that you could make a life out of being
creative and grounded and normal, and education was first, and
you know, there was never a question with her, like
(06:13):
you must go to college, the entire reason to be
an actor is to get yourself through college. You know,
that's the only path.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
For some It's like sports, like they get themselves through college,
like playing football. You did it by playing you know,
Blanche Dubos or something.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean or like the so version
of Blanche.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Dubas right right close. Yeah, you know what you said
this already. You came to almost complete halt twice in
this interview, once when you said the word working actor, right,
and then the other time when you said she's just
a person, right. So, like I think of you as
such a huge star, like you can't walk into a
(06:52):
restaurant without six people going, Oh my god, can I
have your autograph? Probably I'm dying right now.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
We have to stop for a second, and I have
to die. I'm a monster fan of yours. Oh no, no, no,
Like when I saw Unzipped, I fell on the floor
and died. I watched that movie ten times in a row.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
And this is a very here did it come out?
Ninety ninetety five? Ninety so, nineteen ninety five. I am
fifteen years old. Wow, and I became fixated.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
There were these moments that carried for me from that
movie that only wore my brother's clothes growing up. That
was I don't know brother through Well, yeah, picture too
wasn't cute. I had a bowl cut, you know, gangly
teeth and these over right.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Literally, I'll sent during Marlin and Dietrich in men's clothes,
but you're talking about, like, you know, flip flops and
board shorts. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
One hundred percent? It wasn't cute at the time, and
I didn't understand fashion. I wore like black turtlenecks and
sweatpants in high school. Your documentary opened my eyes. I
remember a couple of moments that were ingrained in me,
and one of them is like, you know, she puts
on this fur thing with just like bron panties underneath,
(08:12):
and she goes to walk the dog. Right. It shifted
my perspective because fashion always felt like a rich person's game,
you know. But what you did there was created opportunities
in our normal life for us to express ourselves walk
in the fricking dog, and it shifted everything for me.
And keep in mind, I am now not any kind
(08:34):
of fashion stuf icon, buy any stretch of the imagination,
but I love to dress with purpose, and you taught.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Me that that's wonderful. That's wonderful. But now I have
this question for you. Are you a movie star or
are you a working actor? No? I mean, see you
laugh when I say that, and you just started laughing
when I said how pretty you are. This is a
crazy disconnect. I think you think of yourself as kind
of working actor, regular person, and like you walk out
(09:03):
of your house and people go like, oh my god,
that's like Ashley.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Will you Well, people know my face and they don't
know where they know me from. That happens every day,
several times a day, and most of the time I
don't want to be like, well, I'm on TV, so
I'll be like, did we go to camp together?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Right? So?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
No, I mean, listen, I'm very unemployed right now. I'm
I'm you know, the strike was hard. I'm trying to
sort of scrape together a life. I mean, my first
job was like nineteen ninety, you know, like I've been
around a long time, trying to keep my little ball
in the air. You know, I've quit the business seventeen times.
I've gotten fired by my agents a million times. I
(09:43):
be at one point made a living as a certified
do Like for a couple of years, I attended fifty
two berths as a doula. That was my primary source
of income because my agent dropped me.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And I had nothing. You were birthing children, You were
bringing children into the world in like pools of water
or something.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Or just Isaac, I would say, the mothers weren't delivering
the two.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
The box was just like you were guiding. You were
like the sherpa, the doula. This is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah. And at one point, like I became certified as
a dog trainer. You know, I've sort of cobbled together
this strange little life. But to your point, one time
I was with this woman. It was a very long
labor and I was with her and she she didn't
want me to touch her, right, which is I got
that a lot. And I think I was the same way,
(10:28):
you know, like definitely like my husband, I was like,
get off me when I was in labor. But this
woman was like, you know, just don't do anything else
when I'm going through a contraction. And I said, okay.
So she would have a contraction and she would sort
of stop, and then I would stop and sort of
like hold space, you know, just quietly, just sort of
close my eyes. And I never knew when her contraction
was ending, so I'd kind of peek and be like, well,
(10:50):
she's still in it, right. So finally she comes out
of this contraction, she opens her eyes and she goes,
how I met your mother?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh, that's how she knows you. That is.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Because that's what it is. And I got so self
conscious because the last thing you want when you're half
naked and in the middle of labor is to feel
like you're there with some person on TV.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Except, you know, fabulous that you're there with someone. I mean,
that is very fortuitous, I think, you know. So, how
did you get to la?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah? So you know, the prescription from all of my
fellow soap opera stars they all said you must go
to college. Went to college in Boston, graduated, went to
the Williamstown Theater Festival, did a summer there, and then
I was understudying Rachel Weiss and Gretchen Mall in an
off Broadway play by Neil la Butte and Rachel Weiss's
(11:44):
father had quadruple bypass surgery and she had to go
to London for a couple of weeks and was out
of the show, and this was my opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
This is like, so I moved the movie where they go, hey, kids,
you're going in Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I mean it was also, you know, a just a
couple of weeks after nine to eleven, all of us
were running around, going is the world over? What are
we even doing? And suddenly I'm on stage opposite Paul
Rudd and Fred Weller and pretchenmal and oh It's just incredible.
I mean it was an amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Place in a very fine play by Neil la Butte.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah. Do you remember that play?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, I saw it.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It was called The Shape of Things.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The Shape of Things of course Jarvis, all right, So
that happened an.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So I did that and when I went on my
agents they were like, Ashley Williams is going on for
Rachel Weiss and this play. So all these people came
to see it, and at the end of that, I
guess some people from NBC Warner Brothers came. And when
I arrived in la for pilot season, my agent said
you got to come out, just come out for six weeks,
(12:45):
come for pilot season. My sister said I could stay
in her basement and I had my very first audition
was for an NBC pilot and I booked it.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
You see, this is amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
It was insane.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Pilot didn't get picked up? Or did it? It?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Did? It ran for two seasons? Well, come on, we
were on like right after Friends, right before just shoot
me on Thursday night Must See TV. I mean it
was just nap got that job.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yes, that is so.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That sort of got me on my feet in LA
and I got my first apartment and that was it.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Wow. Now tell me going back to like growing up
and watching your sister, is there any competition.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You know what. I've tried to tell us.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Come on, no, I.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Try, Oh my no, I swear my hand to God.
This woman is my best friend. I feel bad because
I in so many ways, like if I could just
be her, I would, which is super creepy. But she
is my hero. She always has been. She's seven years
older than me, so I was her baby. You know,
she dressed me up and she parented me and still
(13:50):
to this day, I do seriously believe she hung the moon.
I mean, she is my hero. I would love to
be able to compete, but I can't. She's incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Oh come on, she's not in the business as much
as you anymore?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Is she listen? It's all these seasons so the time
that I'm a full time dula in LA, she's the
star of you know, an ABC show, and we really
go up and down together. It's a long career.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
And wait, talk about the LA thing. Do you ever
get tired of that whole scene? And as an addendum
to that question, how important are agents? Because you were
talking about getting fired from your agencies and I know
a lot of actors go through that and it feels
really scary when they call and fire you, because I
was fired once from an agency too, So talk about
that for a minute. You just want, well, no, only
(14:38):
because I know, you know what I and then I
quit an agency once because it was like have we
spoken in a year? No? You know, so bye bye.
But talk about that. How important were the agents in
the making of your I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I got to say, when I was younger, I think
agents really ruled this town, you know, and this is
early two thousands, and honestly, my agent, his name is
Jonathan Bluman. He saw me in a play at Williamstown
and said, you know, we're going to do this together.
And I needed him so badly. I really relied on him,
you know where I remember we would talk at the
(15:13):
end of every single day. And I really do sort
of treat reps a little bit differently now because you know,
I'm kind of older than they are sometimes always And
by the way, Isaac, I do have to tell you
that my agents did recently just drop me again, so
I'm currently agent.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Oh that is hilarious. Well wait a minute, because because
you're right, but what do you think runs that town? Now?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know, it's a great question. I have the answer
that I want to be correct, which is that the
good ideas, the good writing, the good talent rises, and
the rest will follow. That's what I want to say,
and what I think is probably the reality, especially like
this week and in the last six months, Like I
remember the day that the SAG strike ended, I remember
(16:01):
feeling having this feeling like we're all at the start
of a race and the gun just went off and
nobody knows where to run. And that's kind of the
feeling I still have, like what are we doing? What
is TV? You know it's The Suit's reboot, So oh good,
so long form cable television is back, and then they
only order ten episodes. It's a right interesting time and
(16:24):
I think it's get your popcorn because I think that
what's cool about people like you and me is we
get to go, all right, well, we're going to watch,
We're going to see what's happening. I'm going to do
a podcast, I'm going to write a movie, you know,
and we're going to hang out and wait.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And we're going to be doula's to try to raise
some money because we can't make money by podcasting and
writing screenplays.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Heck yeah, man, By the way, do you want to
become a certified doula? Because I can?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Was so fascinating. Wit wouldn't that be amazing? Oh? Come
on already, come on, already, push.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
You'd be like, what are you wearing?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
What do you do it? Come push around?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
By the way, this is disgusting.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And maybe a little maybe a little Brazilian while we're here,
you know, maybe just a little Brazilian bring.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
In between the beauty, tam.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Is there such a thing now as like making it?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I love this question so much because here's the thing.
When I got my first job at in La, everybody
was saying, you've made it, You've made it, You've made it,
but I was very confused about the TV show I
was on. I was very confused about how to please
my bosses. I was on a sitcom at the time,
so sitcom is confusing medium for me still is a
(17:46):
bit because it's theater, but there's cameras right so there's
four cameras running all the time, much like on a
soap opera, except there's a live audience right behind the cameras.
So my playing for the cameras on my playing for
the live audience. I was very confused. So I remember
people saying like, Oh, you're the it girl, You're the
big thing. But I didn't believe in the product I
was selling and I didn't really understand the show I
(18:07):
was on, so I kept saying, Oh, give me five years.
Is there any way you guys could just not watch
the show. I need to bow this out a little bit,
give me a couple of years, and then I'm gonna
really nail it for you. And it doesn't work like that.
So for me, you know, having done this for a
million years now, I feel like making it means I
can pay my mortgage while being creatively fulfilled. I mean
(18:31):
that is to me, that is the dream. You know,
I don't need a lot of money, And that's what
I tell my kids. We don't have too much money.
We have just enough.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Just we have a little less, but we don't stop
asking for all that silly stuff. But you know what
it's like you think about that, You think about like
how happy you are making ends meet and being a
creative right, And I think that way too. But I
have to tell you now that I'm sixty, I can
barely get myself to say the words right, no in yourself, no, no, no,
(19:02):
Wait a second, I am sixty. Okay, wait a second.
But here's the thing. Wait, so amazing, but wait, can
I just tell you now? I'm thinking, like, guess what
in twenty years, I can't do all this, Like what
will happen to me in twenty years? Will I just
end up like in a bag, like with a bunch
of paintings that I bought that I could sell on
the street. Maybe you'll, maybe you'll maybe you want to buy.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Run the Isaac Museum. You'll just be at the door
of the Isaac Museum selling tickets and you'll be able
to give private VIP tours. But your whole life that
you know, your bandana will be on the wall, this
microphone will be in a.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Wait, but wait a second. Do you think this idea
of kind of making it now is about a constant
like reinvention or something, you know, Whereas like if you're
Nicole Kidman Darling or Meryl Streep or whatever, or somebody
like that who is a different generation from you. Those people, right,
they relied on typecasting a little bit, and they were
(19:59):
thrill that there were more and more and more movies
for women that they were casting, you know what I mean.
Whereas like you today, like I think that you're this
kind of jack of all trades, and I think of
successful people as only being out there doing many different things.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know. No, this is such an interesting thing, and
it's honestly something that I've come up against as I've
become what we call a multi hyphen it. So I've
always been an actor, and then when I became a director,
immediately everybody was very confused. The first thing I did
was I went around to all these different networks and
everybody I've ever worked with and said, can you help
(20:35):
me out. I need education, I need training in this.
And they said, but you're an actor, And I said yeah,
but you know, honestly, there's a lot of cross over
here in the skill set. And I'm thinking, I'm, you know,
in my forties, I need to diversify because like this
face is not getting any it's not needing less photox
as the year's right. So I'm thinking, you know, this
(20:56):
is the plan to diversify, right, And immediately people are confused.
And I kept saying, like, I don't understand why I
can't be both. You know, I'm still coming up against it.
But I did launch a women's directing program and some
of the women are actors turned directors, and they've said,
(21:17):
in the interview with your executive committee, should I mention
the acting that I've done, And part of me wants
to say, don't go near it. Just say you've been
studying to be a director your entire life. Because people
get confused.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You know, no they do, Darling, I know, I know,
I know, are you kidding me? It's the curse kind of,
it's like such a curse. And then you're up for
some like plum plum plump part that you really want
and they go, oh no, no, no, he's a designer, like
you can't I would can't cast him or but that's
a crazy thing. But that is a crazy thing that
I think is coming to a very very like harsh
(21:53):
kind of ending, like that's over now, Yes it is,
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I'm getting it like right now, like every day I'm
seeing it.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, but wait a second, because I would just give
it a minute, because are you watching that thing with
Jody Foster on Mouth.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
True true Crime, True Detective.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
True Detective? Because her co star who's amazing, right, and
she has this unbelievable body and she has this like
sex scene in it, and I'm with my husband. I go,
are those her real tattoos? And he goes, oh, no,
she was a boxer. That's her body and those are
her tattoos. And I was like, she was a boxer
and now she's playing opposite like Jody Foster, Fiona Shawl
(22:30):
like all these really unbelievable actors. She was a boxer,
so darling, hang in there, Okay, no pun intended in there.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I just wish that I'd been a boxer at some
point because then maybe there would be a future.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Right right right, like Leyla Ali or something. Yeah. I
couldn't pull that look off, you could. I would imagine you, darling,
I would imagine you, all right, wait a minute, you've
been talking about how successful you are. I want to
hear about some kind of a setback or a failure
that you experience that helped you were, that sets you
back and you're still getting over seriously, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I mean, there's been so many. There was a big
one though. There was one big one, and it's interesting.
The backstory here is that I as an actor, you know,
every year for pilot season, like so I did that
that sitcom when I first got to LA and then
every year after that sitcom got canceled, I booked a pilot.
(23:24):
We would shoot the pilot, and then in mid May
of that spring, the pilot would not get picked up
for thirteen years in a row. So I did the
lead in thirteen differents.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Wow, that is every.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Every January February, I'd book one shoot it every May,
right around my husband's birthday. The pilot would not get
picked up. So but honestly, it was kind of a
good life because I was a good living Fine. It
was fine. Sometimes back in the day, you seet paid
like one episode feed double for the pilot and then
they sort of tossed that lot.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I shot a pilot and I got paid a fortune
and they gave me money not to take other pilots
or something not.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
To take it. I didn't get any of that. I
thought I did because you're Isaac.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Was yeah, hardly darling, but it didn't get picked up.
It was really good. But anyway, go on, no on.
So you were a pilot actress.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So it's a pilot actress. And then I would do
little guest spots and I'd worked her on a couple
of shows, you know, and then over the years it
was yeah, and over the years, you know, I built
up this crazy resume, like tons of shows. I've been
around so long doing it. So then my husband was shooting.
My husband's a producer, right, Yes, we're going to talk
about that. Oh he's so amazing. But anyway, he was
shooting a Netflix movie and I got knocked up, and
(24:39):
so I was like two three weeks away from giving birth.
My husband's shooting this movie in Hawaii and the movie
falls apart, which happens. But I'm in Hawaii with a
two year old and two three weeks away from giving birth. Right,
So I had a whole birth plan in Hawaii, the
whole nine yards and my husband looks at me and
he goes, movie's not happening. The whole thing fell apart.
(25:02):
Where do you want to have this baby? And I said,
get me to La. At the time, you're actually living
in New York. But because of my doula experience, I
knew everybody in the birthing world in La.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Right, that is so funny.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Right, So we get on a plane. I walk in
the door to this obgyn. It was a friend, and
I said, you know, I'm going to give birth in
thirty seconds. I need your help. You haven't done any
of my care at this point. I've had like several
different obgyn's. And he shakes my hand. He's like, let's
do this. Twenty four hours later. I give birth twenty
four hours later. So I'm on this table.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
That is wow.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, So I have this baby. He's amazing. He's now
six and this two year old. And at this point,
my husband's movie is on hold, so we've got no prospects.
We're living in a friend's rental house in LA that's
like five minutes from Cedar Sinai and my husband comes in.
He goes, good news, the movie's back on in Hawaii.
(25:58):
We're going back to Hawaii. I said, okay, you know,
I'm literally nursing. So three days later we're back on
an aeroplane. So then we're in Hawaii for a couple
of weeks and I've got this newborn and my two
year old and he says, bad news. Movie fell apart again.
He said, he said, let's go back to New York.
And I said, you go to New York. I'm going
to go to LA and get a pilot because at
(26:20):
this point we needed some cash. So my friend Jessica
lets me stay in her basement with my two young children,
and I started auditioning for pilots. My husband's trying to
get other stuff going. He's not with me, so I
start auditioning. It's the height of pilot season and I'm
going on three auditions a day. I'm dropping my kids
(26:42):
off at daycare in the morning. And I booked this pilot.
I booked this Fox pilot. The lead right, it's a
huge deal, and I just remember like crying with relief.
It was like when you got your reviews for your
show at the end of un Zipped and you're walking
down the street going I right, So we shoot this pilot.
(27:02):
It's the most fun ever. I have a great time.
I'm waiting for the pickup and my husband's birthday. I'm like,
this is never good news. It's never good news. I
get the call they say we might pick it up,
but we're replacing you. No got fired. No, I got fired.
And it hurt. When I tell you it hurt. It was.
(27:26):
It was probably the most painful thing because I felt
like such a hero, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Of course, and also the thing about that people don't
realize about actors and dancers and performers. When someone fires you,
when they reject you, they're rejecting like you. They're not
rejecting your ability to do math or your ability to
sell things. They're a rejecting license the face and the
personality and the good teeth and good botox, whatever you
(27:54):
want to call it. That they are firing like you. You know,
talking about that, that feels that just oh it was.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It was so brutal. It was so brutal, you know,
when I was alone and my kid was just a
couple months old, and then I had a two and
a half year old and no prospects, and suddenly the
rejection was so real at something that I had done
so well so many times prior, but I got to
tell you something amazing happens. Thomas Lennon, who is an
amazing comedic actor, called me. He was playing my husband
(28:25):
on the show, and he said, you know, I've got
to tell you something. When they don't know what to
do with a show and it's just not working, they
replace the wife. He said, I've seen it over and again.
He said, I saw your performance. It's great, but something's
not working out the show. So you know, they think
it's you, but it's not. There's something not right with
(28:46):
the show, right, And it was such a kind generous
thing to say.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Meanwhile, the girl that replaced me is like amazing. She's
a colleague of mine that I've known a million years.
I haven't seen her since she replaced me in this
but I have fantasies about like me just throwing my
arms around her and saying, can we still be friends?
So this was about five years ago. So the night
that the Deadline article came out saying that this girl
(29:11):
was replacing me on this show, it was a Friday.
By the way, if a story is announced on Deadline
on a Friday, it's up all week out, right. So
my girlfriend who worked at AB still works at ABC,
texted me and she said, she said vodka, tequila, aha,
(29:34):
And I said tequila. She said, I'll be there at seven. Right.
All this time, I'm hopping around to different friends' houses. Right,
I was staying at Jennifer Westfeld's house at the time
and with my two children. And so she shows up.
Her name is simmer and Sethie. We met in a
book club one hundred years ago and she's just a true, true,
wonderful friend. And she sat me down. She said, Okay,
(29:56):
I Wikipedia, you said, you've been around forever. You have
an unbelievable reputation in this industry. You've done forty five pilots.
Everybody loves you. Why are you not directing? And I
told her this story, which is the reason why I'm
not directing. And the story is, I was on my
(30:16):
soap opera. I was on I was the Reld Turns.
I was fifteen, and you know, it was the most
fun that job. So this is right around un zipped
right when you became my hero. So I'm on this
show and I'm I'm on the set and say we're
shooting on these big broadcast cameras, right, and there's this
(30:37):
camera operators, this old guy, and he's got a cigarette
hanging out of his mouth. And I went up to
him and I said, hey, can I hold the camera? Like,
can I get back there? You know, because I was
just dying to see what it felt like to hold
that camera in my hands. And he said, why don't
you stick to wear in your bikini? No? Yeah, but
(30:57):
you know what, Isaac, I looked really good at a.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
But I said.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
What I said to him was well, why can't I
hold the camera?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
And where?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeh? But but what it was the introduction to me
of you know, that multi hyphen it that we come against.
And also a good example of the patriarchy because at
the time I didn't know any female directors, right, it
was something boys did. That was a man thing, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
You know or something or like.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
But like people that I knew every director that I
was coming in contact with, you know, it was it
was very rare, very rare. Yeah, And that's that's just
the patriarchy at work. Great, you know, so I am
if nothing else, I know how to play, you know,
I know how to figure out in a room almost
(31:52):
to like a brain has broken, ADHD level, what my
place is, what the tone is, when I should speak
when I should not, you know. And so I deferred
in that moment as by the way you know women do.
And probably that's the only reason I've had the career
I've had is because I know how to follow those
(32:14):
cues and never really considered it again because I thought,
that's just that's what boys do. So here's how I
can express myself, which is in front of the camera. Right.
So when she said that to me, I said, well,
you know, girls don't do that, and she said, that's
not She said, that's not true anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
It's a brain explosion.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
It was a brain explosion. And I said, well, I
don't have to think about it. I mean, of course,
of course I know how to do that, you know.
But I figured out all these ways to kind of
not actually direct, but kind of guide the blocking, kind
of guide the writing, guide the producing from the actor's perspective,
through asking smart questions and kind of getting the result
(32:55):
that I wanted. And so when she called me on this,
I said, I got to think about it. My husband
came home that night, he actually landed from Why that night,
and I I said, I have to talk to you.
I said, I think I'm a director. And he said,
thank god, I've been waiting for you to say this,
and he takes out this is our this is our
life's blood is these yellow pads. He takes out a
(33:17):
yellow pad and he writes at the top of the
yellow pad the word curriculum, and he goes, We're going
to have to educate you, because the worst thing to
do it here is to just start having you say
I'm a director, so not We're gonna need a couple
of years where we educate you and we do this right.
And he started writing this curriculum and he immediately started
ordering all these books about directing, and he said, you're
(33:39):
gonna have to assign yourself mentors. You're gonna have to
fight for this.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
This is going to be my theddest.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Thing you've ever done. And honestly it was. It was humbling.
I mean I keep saying I had to just eat
shit sandwich after shit sandwich, you know, just just hum job,
not even a job, just to get a mentor. Was
you know I am coming to you hat in hand.
I need your help. This is something I know I'm
(34:05):
going to be good at but I'm going to need
your guidance. And I assigned myself essentially professors and started
a post grad program of my own design and really
did truly follow through on that, and it was exhausting
and embarrassing. And then I signed myself the task of
writing a short film a week. And most of them
(34:26):
were just awful and I would never show anybody, but
there were a couple that were pretty good, especially as
time went on. And then one of them I sent
it to Neil, you know, and I said, I think
this has something, and he said, all right, let's shoot it.
And we shot it six hours and I premiered it
at the Sundance Film Festival. It got into Sundance. So
(34:47):
that was so validating, you know that I had come
from just an actress in a bikini to know I'm
determined to do this right to Okay, I did it.
I paid for the short and now we got into
Sunday and then I started getting hired as a director,
and it's amazing. The problem is not that the genius
isn't there. You know, the genius is there, but you
(35:09):
need an advocate. And that's what I find so rewarding,
you know, I started this women's directing program at the
Homework Channel because I had such an impossible time getting
people to advocate for me that I realized that now
I had the access as a working director who knew
a lot of people with this network that makes one
(35:30):
hundred movies a year, and here I am now advocating
for these women. So if it unzipped you with the
fashion design, that was the meat and the sandwich. I
know I'm good at directing. I know I have an
ear and an eye for writing. I know I have
these things, and yet I have no agent.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Right now, rightly.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Unemployed, I got nothing going on. It's like I'm in
this period of time where I really believe in the
book and I can't get anyone to read it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
You want, Yes, I do, I do. Except you do
have a really cute husband. He's cute. Not only is he?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And you look great? Okay, and you look so there
are two things that are really smart. You are devoted
to dogs. Did you grow up with dogs? How did
that happen? Tell me about that?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Oh my god, it's because because bananas with the dog Rescue?
Do you?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Oh honey, are you kidding? I mean, I try I
want to advocate more and more and more. That's all
I care about.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I mean it, I was inappropriate this weekend, Isaac. I
was at a puppy party. It was a five five
year old's birthday party. And by the way, her mother's amazing,
she's a good friend of mine. But I guess they
throw these puppy parties in LA where somebody brings ten
puppies and all the kids are in a cage just
cuddling with the puppies, which is so good for the dogs,
and you know, it's just amazing. But I went up
(37:01):
my first question, where are these dogs from? Excuse me,
where are these dogs from?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
You know, for you?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And the woman was like, well, you know, we're holding
onto them, but they are for sale. And I immediately
like kind of couldn't breathe and walked away. And then
one of the I think it was somebody's nanny, was
talking to.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Were they bread dogs or were they rescues? Oh? They
were bread dogs. Right, Honestly, that's a whole category of
dog that I can't even acknowledge or something. That's my problem.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Exactly, because, by the way, I'm sure they're amazing, And
I also hate judging people. But then I know my
secret whisper of the self I do. So anyway, I
was inappropriate with this woman and I said, well, you know,
if you just get said, I really want a docs,
and I said, if you give me three months, I'll
find you a rescue dogs. In a second, I said,
just give me something. She said, but this one's just
so cute. And my husband was like, why don't we
(37:52):
go get some lemonade? Honey, I go a little cuckoo.
So I was great, I'm grateful for him. He sort
of steered me away from her because I don't want
to start a fight with somebody who just is loving
on a dog.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You know, do you have dogs right now?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I just have one.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, her name is Alma. She's my reward because what
I've done for a million years is I get the
dogs that no one wants, and then they bite people
and me and then I have to fight to keep
them alive. And so what I say is that Almah's
like my rewards. She's easy, and I've got two little
kids right now, so I need a dog. So she's
just a cuddle buck.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
By the way, you notice I asked you about your
dog before I asked about your children or your husband. Right,
I'm serious again, handsome husband, right, handsome right, It's true. Okay,
it was a reference. But but but in terms of
like how motherhood and wifehood or something has changed your
perspective or changed your life as an actor and a
(38:50):
producer and a writer, et cetera, tell me a little
bit about that. You Know.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
What's interesting is like, I've been thinking a lot recently
about agism because my sister's fifty, and I feel like
my colleagues are more at the top of our game
than we've ever been. And yet I see this draw
of these young, early twenties, sparkly, just out of college women,
(39:15):
and I just think it's so interesting. My life experience,
being with my husband for twenty years, having these kids,
my ability to communicate, my understanding of the world, you know,
is so much heads and shoulders above what it was
when I was twenty three twenty four. But when I
was twenty three to twenty four. Every door opened to
me when I was young, and now I see them
(39:37):
in an interesting way, kind of closing, And I think
it's society's draw towards youth. But the truth is, I've
never been better at what I do, and I just
find that fascinating, you know, yes, yes, yes, So I
don't know if that answers your questions.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Well, it does a little bit, It does a little bit,
you know. I was talking to Alissa Milano for a
podcast about a week ago, and she was saying, you know, Isaac, like,
I don't want to be one of those grasping cuckoo
actresses who is just constantly doing work on their face,
thinking we don't know, thinking we can't google them, you know,
so that maybe they'll still be like close to an ingenue,
(40:15):
if not an ingenow or maybe the young mom or something.
She's like, I don't want to do that. I just
don't want to do that. And I'm not exactly sure
what she's going to do, but like, do you think
about this, Like what do you think you're going to do?
What do you think you're going to do?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I think I'm going to be an actor forever, and
I think the parts are only going to get more interesting,
but they're going to get fewer and further between. Right.
The good news is I'm a really reliable hire, Like
I'm a solid choice. Right, every job I get, I
nail it and it's great, but I am finding as
I get older, those opportunities are just getting fewer, you know,
(40:51):
which is which is interesting. And consequently I am writing,
I'm directing, I'm producing, and my hope is that that
diversification and can keep me employed until you know, I
do have this fantasy about like me naked in a
hot tub in my mid sixties, smoking and just with
a bunch of women just doing tarot cards, like that's
(41:13):
what I want, that's the goal, you know, And I
got that.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Where did how did a nice East Coast girl get
such cuckoo sort of West Coast aspirations for her?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know, for a long time? But you know, that's
what do we want to say when we're staring up
at the night sky with our boobs hanging out? Like
who do we want to be?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And I maybe just a little ayahuasca, just a little
ayahuasca like a micro dose, but I want to be present.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I want to feel it all, you know, And I'm
looking forward to being her and seeing where I am now,
you know, through her lens and saying what a time
I had And remember when I couldn't get arrested and
then my agent dropped me and then but then that
was the year such and such happened, right right, Like
I always say, it's not a six year career, it's
(42:02):
a sixty year career. Yes, it is, so Yes, I
can't wait to meet her.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
So wait, speaking of your old age, this is a
question I ask everybody, and it's about your obituary. Do
you know what you want your life to have meant? Like?
What is your life supposed to mean in your obituary?
And let's assume the picture is really good. Let's assume
the picture they pick is really really good.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Better be I better be in a bikini. Yeah, I'd
like to borrow a phrase from the first line of
my husband's wedding vows to me, which was, today, I'm
marrying the best kind of crazy person. I would like
that to be included in my obituary because that's the thing.
(42:45):
I like, a full colorful life. I like the highs
and the lows, you know, And representing my failures in
my obituary is important to me because that's where my
strength has grown, you know. And so there definitely that.
But then there's something else that is really important to me,
which is advocating for women. This is something that I
(43:07):
want to be remembered for because I'm doing it literally
all day, every day right now in this women's directing
program at Hallmark, I think is just the beginning. We
need advocacy from our fellow women, you know. And also,
by the way, like we would be nowhere without middle
aged white men as well. But you know, I want
(43:30):
to be the person who pulled people up or across
or just you know. The female bond that I have
with my peers right now means so much to me,
and being able to open up doors for people less
experienced than me is fulfilling me more than any of
the work I've ever done. I want that to be
(43:50):
in the obituary.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
That can be as well. It's a long obituarity feeling.
It's a full page with a tracer on the front page.
I'm too serious. I'm not kidding. That's what that's going
to be, my feeling. But now, finally, what would you
like to promote on this podcast? Anything?
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You know what I'd like to promote. Yeah, I'm wildly
available for hire.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well that is amazing. I thought you were going to say,
like such and such a dog rescue or like such
and such a women's no do I well, I was
going to say that too. No, usually that's people promote totally, totally.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I'd like to make an offer for a job. You know,
you can just email me.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
That is sheep. That is really chic. I like that.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
But yes, of course. So advocacy wise, the make her
Mark Women's Directing program at Homemark. I'm very proud of that.
I'd love for people to know about that. I raise
money for the Alzheimer's Association. My mother passed away from Alzheimer's.
We throw a gigantic dance party every fall and we
raise money and we've raised one point two million dollars
for their research grand program at the Alzheimer's Association. Super
(45:01):
proud of that. And then yeah, best friends dogs.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Thinks you yay, it's all about dogs for me.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, that's the thesis.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
People don't realize. They think it's yoga, or they think
it's whatever. It's not. It's meditation. No, it's dogs.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Dogs.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Well, now that we're best friends, Ashley seriously call me constantly.
I love you. I didn't even know I loved you. Well,
I knew I loved you now I love love love Loaf.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
It's really intense. It's really intense to hang out with.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
What sign are you? What's your birth? Ye oh nice, I'm.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Super kind, Like I don't have that kind of back
stay thing about me.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
No, no, no, no no. Some of my favorite people a scorpio.
Are you kidding? I'm like this with several several scorpios.
One of my best friends in the world is a scorpio.
My account scorpio.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Huh really means what are you?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I'm a libra darling my sister?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah, yeah, I get it all right, Well, you're amazing.
This is incredible.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well, who knew that Ashley Williams and I are best friends?
I didn't even know that, But that's just the fact, right.
We found that out by the end of that hour
long chat, and I feel so fulfilled. I love that
someone would come onto the podcast and be so vulnerable about,
(46:29):
you know, for one thing, not being employed like that
is really really so inspiring to me, you know. And
one of the things that really resonated with me was
when she said that her life's dream is to be
a creative person who ends up supporting themselves in that capacity.
Like that is where we completely see eye to eye.
(46:51):
You know, that's sort of also my life's dream. Anyway,
thank you so much for tuning in. I'm really glad
you got a chance to hear that talk because it
was amazing and now now we're best friends. Darlings. If
you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and tell someone,
Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell
(47:13):
everyone you know. Okay, and be sure to rate the show.
I love rating stuff. Go on and rate and review
the show on Apple Podcasts so more people can hear
about it. It makes such a gigantic difference and like
it takes a second, so go on and do it.
And if you want more fun content videos and posts
(47:35):
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast And by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at. I Am Isaac, Mssrahi.
This is Isaac, Missrahi. Thank you, I love you and
I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello
(47:59):
Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and I
AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia. The series is hosted by me
Isaac Musrati. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The
senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti. It is
executive produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazerkarra Welker, and Nathan
(48:21):
Cloke at Imagine, Audio production management from Katie Hodges, Sound
design and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by
Ben Waltzer. A special thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah
Katanak at i AM Entertainment
Do you want to become a certified doula?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I do. I wouldn't that be amazing? Oh? Come on already,
come on, already, push.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
You'd be like, what are you wearing?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
What do you do it? Come push already. God, by
the way, this is disgusting. And maybe a little maybe
a little Brazilian while we're here, you know, maybe just
a little brazilious. Yeah, exactly, beauty t This is Hello Isaac,
my podcast about the idea of success and how failure
(00:36):
affects it. I'm Isaac Musrahi, and in this episode I
talk to actor, writer, producer, and director Ashley Williams.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hello Isaac, It's Ashley Williams. I am going to come
and be on your show, and I'm going to try
not to fanger all too much because I think I've
seen them zipped one hundred and forty seven times. Anyway,
I love you. I hope I don't talk to my
or maybe I want a doctor.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What as four guests that I am meeting for the
first time. This is very, very exciting to me because
I am a big fan of Ashley Williams, mostly because well,
I like love everything she's ever done, and I love
the Hallmark Channel. And I love her as a director,
(01:23):
and I love her as a movie star, and I
think she's so pretty and funny. But on top of
everything else, she's really a multi hyphen it. You know,
if you look into her, you will find that she
has like written articles that advocate for women, she's a
dog lover, she's a dog rescue advocate, et cetera. And
so I feel like, from one multi hyphen it to another,
(01:47):
I think we have a lot to talk about. So
let's waste not another second. Here we go Ashley Williams.
First of all, you're so pretty, Like, you're so much prettier.
You have like really good skin. What is so funny?
Does people ever remark pretty? No?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
What's funny to me is because I do get this
a lot. I get like, you're so much prettier in person,
You're so much pretty. I get you're so much tinier
in person. I get that a lot. But thank you.
I mean, you know, it's just my old face.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I don't know, it's so fresh, and you have such
gorgeous teeth and such gorgeous eyebrows, and it's all it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Thank you. I wore braces for like eleven years lucky,
so they they better look amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
You see, guess what I didn't wear braceis my sister
had braces and she had her nose fixed. So I
don't know why they just stopped with my sister.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You know, they probably ran out of money at that.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Point, exactly exactly, and we're done. So wait, can we
talk a little bit about your history? Like where are
you from? Originally I think you're from the East Coast.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I was born in Youngers and we lived right on
the border of Bronxviill and Youngers, so my mother called
it Broncers. And my parents were writers. My dad was
a journalist, went to Columbia Journalism School and then worked
at news Day and my mother same deal, worked at
Newsday as well, and they fell in love and then
(03:17):
they had my older sister and my older sister, she's dropped.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
About that second gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Okay, okay, Well it's like the kind of gorgeous where
it's like stop her on the street. But this is
the thing, was I was kimberly face. Yeah, and so
people would be like, is she a model? And my
mom would be like, well, she's available. You know, we're
open and then the little sister would come peeking up
(03:48):
from behind with like gnarled up teeth and be like, Hi,
what about me? But yeah, we were in younkers. We
lived right next door to a soap opera star, and
we you were enamored. I mean, this woman, first of all,
she has an emmy. Her name is Anna Hoolebrook. She's
still a very close friend. But she was so inspiring
(04:09):
because she was a working actress, you know. So she
actually took some pictures of my older sister and brought
them into her own agency and said, do you want
to wrap this girl? They said sure? And then she
auditioned for a US dairy commercial in the eighties, and
she booked it. Of course, she made something like fifty
(04:31):
thousand dollars in one day.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I mean, this was the eighties when you could make money,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
On some commercials.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, on anything, it's sort of all over it's yeah, exactly.
But my mother was like, holy crap, that's your college.
You're all doing this so unreal. So Anna Holbrook, the
soap star, took photos of all of us. We all
got agents and we all started working in commercials, and honestly,
(05:03):
it was kind of through Anna and the soap world
in Manhattan, because then I was on a soap opera
and my brother and I were doing print and you know,
but like we were ten in you know, in the
early nineties. Yeah, it was such a such a good
time in New York.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
As you know, it was a very very good time.
But the first thing I want to know is, like
what appealed to you? Like what in you just went like,
oh that's it.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I mean, listen, coming from the child of two writers, right,
you know, we were like my dad talked about like
he was selling Dennis the Menace cartoons for a little
while for ten dollars a pop. You know, like at
one point we were like boiling soup bones and that
was dinner. You know, it was it was an intense time.
And then honestly, it was this woman that we lived
(05:51):
next door to you who made a career out of
something that just seemed so wonderfully creative. Yeah, exactly. And
also she was a normal person. So it was the
idea that you could make a life out of being
creative and grounded and normal, and education was first, and
you know, there was never a question with her, like
(06:13):
you must go to college, the entire reason to be
an actor is to get yourself through college. You know,
that's the only path.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
For some It's like sports, like they get themselves through college,
like playing football. You did it by playing you know,
Blanche Dubos or something.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean or like the so version
of Blanche.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Dubas right right close. Yeah, you know what you said
this already. You came to almost complete halt twice in
this interview, once when you said the word working actor, right,
and then the other time when you said she's just
a person, right. So, like I think of you as
such a huge star, like you can't walk into a
(06:52):
restaurant without six people going, Oh my god, can I
have your autograph? Probably I'm dying right now.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
We have to stop for a second, and I have
to die. I'm a monster fan of yours. Oh no, no, no,
Like when I saw Unzipped, I fell on the floor
and died. I watched that movie ten times in a row.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
And this is a very here did it come out?
Ninety ninetety five? Ninety so, nineteen ninety five. I am
fifteen years old. Wow, and I became fixated.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
There were these moments that carried for me from that
movie that only wore my brother's clothes growing up. That
was I don't know brother through Well, yeah, picture too
wasn't cute. I had a bowl cut, you know, gangly
teeth and these over right.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Literally, I'll sent during Marlin and Dietrich in men's clothes,
but you're talking about, like, you know, flip flops and
board shorts. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
One hundred percent? It wasn't cute at the time, and
I didn't understand fashion. I wore like black turtlenecks and
sweatpants in high school. Your documentary opened my eyes. I
remember a couple of moments that were ingrained in me,
and one of them is like, you know, she puts
on this fur thing with just like bron panties underneath,
(08:12):
and she goes to walk the dog. Right. It shifted
my perspective because fashion always felt like a rich person's game,
you know. But what you did there was created opportunities
in our normal life for us to express ourselves walk
in the fricking dog, and it shifted everything for me.
And keep in mind, I am now not any kind
(08:34):
of fashion stuf icon, buy any stretch of the imagination,
but I love to dress with purpose, and you taught.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Me that that's wonderful. That's wonderful. But now I have
this question for you. Are you a movie star or
are you a working actor? No? I mean, see you
laugh when I say that, and you just started laughing
when I said how pretty you are. This is a
crazy disconnect. I think you think of yourself as kind
of working actor, regular person, and like you walk out
(09:03):
of your house and people go like, oh my god,
that's like Ashley.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Will you Well, people know my face and they don't
know where they know me from. That happens every day,
several times a day, and most of the time I
don't want to be like, well, I'm on TV, so
I'll be like, did we go to camp together?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Right? So?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
No, I mean, listen, I'm very unemployed right now. I'm
I'm you know, the strike was hard. I'm trying to
sort of scrape together a life. I mean, my first
job was like nineteen ninety, you know, like I've been
around a long time, trying to keep my little ball
in the air. You know, I've quit the business seventeen times.
I've gotten fired by my agents a million times. I
(09:43):
be at one point made a living as a certified
do Like for a couple of years, I attended fifty
two berths as a doula. That was my primary source
of income because my agent dropped me.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And I had nothing. You were birthing children, You were
bringing children into the world in like pools of water
or something.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Or just Isaac, I would say, the mothers weren't delivering
the two.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
The box was just like you were guiding. You were
like the sherpa, the doula. This is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah. And at one point, like I became certified as
a dog trainer. You know, I've sort of cobbled together
this strange little life. But to your point, one time
I was with this woman. It was a very long
labor and I was with her and she she didn't
want me to touch her, right, which is I got
that a lot. And I think I was the same way,
(10:28):
you know, like definitely like my husband, I was like,
get off me when I was in labor. But this
woman was like, you know, just don't do anything else
when I'm going through a contraction. And I said, okay.
So she would have a contraction and she would sort
of stop, and then I would stop and sort of
like hold space, you know, just quietly, just sort of
close my eyes. And I never knew when her contraction
was ending, so I'd kind of peek and be like, well,
(10:50):
she's still in it, right. So finally she comes out
of this contraction, she opens her eyes and she goes,
how I met your mother?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh, that's how she knows you. That is.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Because that's what it is. And I got so self
conscious because the last thing you want when you're half
naked and in the middle of labor is to feel
like you're there with some person on TV.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Except, you know, fabulous that you're there with someone. I mean,
that is very fortuitous, I think, you know. So, how
did you get to la?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah? So you know, the prescription from all of my
fellow soap opera stars they all said you must go
to college. Went to college in Boston, graduated, went to
the Williamstown Theater Festival, did a summer there, and then
I was understudying Rachel Weiss and Gretchen Mall in an
off Broadway play by Neil la Butte and Rachel Weiss's
(11:44):
father had quadruple bypass surgery and she had to go
to London for a couple of weeks and was out
of the show, and this was my opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
This is like, so I moved the movie where they go, hey, kids,
you're going in Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I mean it was also, you know, a just a
couple of weeks after nine to eleven, all of us
were running around, going is the world over? What are
we even doing? And suddenly I'm on stage opposite Paul
Rudd and Fred Weller and pretchenmal and oh It's just incredible.
I mean it was an amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Place in a very fine play by Neil la Butte.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah. Do you remember that play?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes, I saw it.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It was called The Shape of Things.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The Shape of Things of course Jarvis, all right, So
that happened an.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So I did that and when I went on my
agents they were like, Ashley Williams is going on for
Rachel Weiss and this play. So all these people came
to see it, and at the end of that, I
guess some people from NBC Warner Brothers came. And when
I arrived in la for pilot season, my agent said
you got to come out, just come out for six weeks,
(12:45):
come for pilot season. My sister said I could stay
in her basement and I had my very first audition
was for an NBC pilot and I booked it.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
You see, this is amazing.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
It was insane.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Pilot didn't get picked up? Or did it? It?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Did? It ran for two seasons? Well, come on, we
were on like right after Friends, right before just shoot
me on Thursday night Must See TV. I mean it
was just nap got that job.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yes, that is so.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That sort of got me on my feet in LA
and I got my first apartment and that was it.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Wow. Now tell me going back to like growing up
and watching your sister, is there any competition.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You know what. I've tried to tell us.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Come on, no, I.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Try, Oh my no, I swear my hand to God.
This woman is my best friend. I feel bad because
I in so many ways, like if I could just
be her, I would, which is super creepy. But she
is my hero. She always has been. She's seven years
older than me, so I was her baby. You know,
she dressed me up and she parented me and still
(13:50):
to this day, I do seriously believe she hung the moon.
I mean, she is my hero. I would love to
be able to compete, but I can't. She's incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Oh come on, she's not in the business as much
as you anymore?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Is she listen? It's all these seasons so the time
that I'm a full time dula in LA, she's the
star of you know, an ABC show, and we really
go up and down together. It's a long career.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
And wait, talk about the LA thing. Do you ever
get tired of that whole scene? And as an addendum
to that question, how important are agents? Because you were
talking about getting fired from your agencies and I know
a lot of actors go through that and it feels
really scary when they call and fire you, because I
was fired once from an agency too, So talk about
that for a minute. You just want, well, no, only
(14:38):
because I know, you know what I and then I
quit an agency once because it was like have we
spoken in a year? No? You know, so bye bye.
But talk about that. How important were the agents in
the making of your I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I got to say, when I was younger, I think
agents really ruled this town, you know, and this is
early two thousands, and honestly, my agent, his name is
Jonathan Bluman. He saw me in a play at Williamstown
and said, you know, we're going to do this together.
And I needed him so badly. I really relied on him,
you know where I remember we would talk at the
(15:13):
end of every single day. And I really do sort
of treat reps a little bit differently now because you know,
I'm kind of older than they are sometimes always And
by the way, Isaac, I do have to tell you
that my agents did recently just drop me again, so
I'm currently agent.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Oh that is hilarious. Well wait a minute, because because
you're right, but what do you think runs that town? Now?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know, it's a great question. I have the answer
that I want to be correct, which is that the
good ideas, the good writing, the good talent rises, and
the rest will follow. That's what I want to say,
and what I think is probably the reality, especially like
this week and in the last six months, Like I
remember the day that the SAG strike ended, I remember
(16:01):
feeling having this feeling like we're all at the start
of a race and the gun just went off and
nobody knows where to run. And that's kind of the
feeling I still have, like what are we doing? What
is TV? You know it's The Suit's reboot, So oh good,
so long form cable television is back, and then they
only order ten episodes. It's a right interesting time and
(16:24):
I think it's get your popcorn because I think that
what's cool about people like you and me is we
get to go, all right, well, we're going to watch,
We're going to see what's happening. I'm going to do
a podcast, I'm going to write a movie, you know,
and we're going to hang out and wait.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And we're going to be doula's to try to raise
some money because we can't make money by podcasting and
writing screenplays.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Heck yeah, man, By the way, do you want to
become a certified doula? Because I can?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Was so fascinating. Wit wouldn't that be amazing? Oh? Come
on already, come on, already, push.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
You'd be like, what are you wearing?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
What do you do it? Come push around?
Speaker 1 (17:01):
By the way, this is disgusting.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And maybe a little maybe a little Brazilian while we're here,
you know, maybe just a little Brazilian bring.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
In between the beauty, tam.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Is there such a thing now as like making it?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I love this question so much because here's the thing.
When I got my first job at in La, everybody
was saying, you've made it, You've made it, You've made it,
but I was very confused about the TV show I
was on. I was very confused about how to please
my bosses. I was on a sitcom at the time,
so sitcom is confusing medium for me still is a
(17:46):
bit because it's theater, but there's cameras right so there's
four cameras running all the time, much like on a
soap opera, except there's a live audience right behind the cameras.
So my playing for the cameras on my playing for
the live audience. I was very confused. So I remember
people saying like, Oh, you're the it girl, You're the
big thing. But I didn't believe in the product I
was selling and I didn't really understand the show I
(18:07):
was on, so I kept saying, Oh, give me five years.
Is there any way you guys could just not watch
the show. I need to bow this out a little bit,
give me a couple of years, and then I'm gonna
really nail it for you. And it doesn't work like that.
So for me, you know, having done this for a
million years now, I feel like making it means I
can pay my mortgage while being creatively fulfilled. I mean
(18:31):
that is to me, that is the dream. You know,
I don't need a lot of money, And that's what
I tell my kids. We don't have too much money.
We have just enough.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Just we have a little less, but we don't stop
asking for all that silly stuff. But you know what
it's like you think about that, You think about like
how happy you are making ends meet and being a
creative right, And I think that way too. But I
have to tell you now that I'm sixty, I can
barely get myself to say the words right, no in yourself, no, no, no,
(19:02):
Wait a second, I am sixty. Okay, wait a second.
But here's the thing. Wait, so amazing, but wait, can
I just tell you now? I'm thinking, like, guess what
in twenty years, I can't do all this, Like what
will happen to me in twenty years? Will I just
end up like in a bag, like with a bunch
of paintings that I bought that I could sell on
the street. Maybe you'll, maybe you'll maybe you want to buy.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Run the Isaac Museum. You'll just be at the door
of the Isaac Museum selling tickets and you'll be able
to give private VIP tours. But your whole life that
you know, your bandana will be on the wall, this
microphone will be in a.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Wait, but wait a second. Do you think this idea
of kind of making it now is about a constant
like reinvention or something, you know, Whereas like if you're
Nicole Kidman Darling or Meryl Streep or whatever, or somebody
like that who is a different generation from you. Those people, right,
they relied on typecasting a little bit, and they were
(19:59):
thrill that there were more and more and more movies
for women that they were casting, you know what I mean.
Whereas like you today, like I think that you're this
kind of jack of all trades, and I think of
successful people as only being out there doing many different things.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know. No, this is such an interesting thing, and
it's honestly something that I've come up against as I've
become what we call a multi hyphen it. So I've
always been an actor, and then when I became a director,
immediately everybody was very confused. The first thing I did
was I went around to all these different networks and
everybody I've ever worked with and said, can you help
(20:35):
me out. I need education, I need training in this.
And they said, but you're an actor, And I said yeah,
but you know, honestly, there's a lot of cross over
here in the skill set. And I'm thinking, I'm, you know,
in my forties, I need to diversify because like this
face is not getting any it's not needing less photox
as the year's right. So I'm thinking, you know, this
(20:56):
is the plan to diversify, right, And immediately people are confused.
And I kept saying, like, I don't understand why I
can't be both. You know, I'm still coming up against it.
But I did launch a women's directing program and some
of the women are actors turned directors, and they've said,
(21:17):
in the interview with your executive committee, should I mention
the acting that I've done, And part of me wants
to say, don't go near it. Just say you've been
studying to be a director your entire life. Because people
get confused.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You know, no they do, Darling, I know, I know,
I know, are you kidding me? It's the curse kind of,
it's like such a curse. And then you're up for
some like plum plum plump part that you really want
and they go, oh no, no, no, he's a designer, like
you can't I would can't cast him or but that's
a crazy thing. But that is a crazy thing that
I think is coming to a very very like harsh
(21:53):
kind of ending, like that's over now, Yes it is,
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I'm getting it like right now, like every day I'm
seeing it.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, but wait a second, because I would just give
it a minute, because are you watching that thing with
Jody Foster on Mouth.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
True true Crime, True Detective.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
True Detective? Because her co star who's amazing, right, and
she has this unbelievable body and she has this like
sex scene in it, and I'm with my husband. I go,
are those her real tattoos? And he goes, oh, no,
she was a boxer. That's her body and those are
her tattoos. And I was like, she was a boxer
and now she's playing opposite like Jody Foster, Fiona Shawl
(22:30):
like all these really unbelievable actors. She was a boxer,
so darling, hang in there, Okay, no pun intended in there.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I just wish that I'd been a boxer at some
point because then maybe there would be a future.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Right right right, like Leyla Ali or something. Yeah. I
couldn't pull that look off, you could. I would imagine you, darling,
I would imagine you, all right, wait a minute, you've
been talking about how successful you are. I want to
hear about some kind of a setback or a failure
that you experience that helped you were, that sets you
back and you're still getting over seriously, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I mean, there's been so many. There was a big
one though. There was one big one, and it's interesting.
The backstory here is that I as an actor, you know,
every year for pilot season, like so I did that
that sitcom when I first got to LA and then
every year after that sitcom got canceled, I booked a pilot.
(23:24):
We would shoot the pilot, and then in mid May
of that spring, the pilot would not get picked up
for thirteen years in a row. So I did the
lead in thirteen differents.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Wow, that is every.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Every January February, I'd book one shoot it every May,
right around my husband's birthday. The pilot would not get
picked up. So but honestly, it was kind of a
good life because I was a good living Fine. It
was fine. Sometimes back in the day, you seet paid
like one episode feed double for the pilot and then
they sort of tossed that lot.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I shot a pilot and I got paid a fortune
and they gave me money not to take other pilots
or something not.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
To take it. I didn't get any of that. I
thought I did because you're Isaac.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Was yeah, hardly darling, but it didn't get picked up.
It was really good. But anyway, go on, no on.
So you were a pilot actress.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So it's a pilot actress. And then I would do
little guest spots and I'd worked her on a couple
of shows, you know, and then over the years it
was yeah, and over the years, you know, I built
up this crazy resume, like tons of shows. I've been
around so long doing it. So then my husband was shooting.
My husband's a producer, right, Yes, we're going to talk
about that. Oh he's so amazing. But anyway, he was
shooting a Netflix movie and I got knocked up, and
(24:39):
so I was like two three weeks away from giving birth.
My husband's shooting this movie in Hawaii and the movie
falls apart, which happens. But I'm in Hawaii with a
two year old and two three weeks away from giving birth. Right,
So I had a whole birth plan in Hawaii, the
whole nine yards and my husband looks at me and
he goes, movie's not happening. The whole thing fell apart.
(25:02):
Where do you want to have this baby? And I said,
get me to La. At the time, you're actually living
in New York. But because of my doula experience, I
knew everybody in the birthing world in La.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Right, that is so funny.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Right, So we get on a plane. I walk in
the door to this obgyn. It was a friend, and
I said, you know, I'm going to give birth in
thirty seconds. I need your help. You haven't done any
of my care at this point. I've had like several
different obgyn's. And he shakes my hand. He's like, let's
do this. Twenty four hours later. I give birth twenty
four hours later. So I'm on this table.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
That is wow.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, So I have this baby. He's amazing. He's now
six and this two year old. And at this point,
my husband's movie is on hold, so we've got no prospects.
We're living in a friend's rental house in LA that's
like five minutes from Cedar Sinai and my husband comes in.
He goes, good news, the movie's back on in Hawaii.
(25:58):
We're going back to Hawaii. I said, okay, you know,
I'm literally nursing. So three days later we're back on
an aeroplane. So then we're in Hawaii for a couple
of weeks and I've got this newborn and my two
year old and he says, bad news. Movie fell apart again.
He said, he said, let's go back to New York.
And I said, you go to New York. I'm going
to go to LA and get a pilot because at
(26:20):
this point we needed some cash. So my friend Jessica
lets me stay in her basement with my two young children,
and I started auditioning for pilots. My husband's trying to
get other stuff going. He's not with me, so I
start auditioning. It's the height of pilot season and I'm
going on three auditions a day. I'm dropping my kids
(26:42):
off at daycare in the morning. And I booked this pilot.
I booked this Fox pilot. The lead right, it's a
huge deal, and I just remember like crying with relief.
It was like when you got your reviews for your
show at the end of un Zipped and you're walking
down the street going I right, So we shoot this pilot.
(27:02):
It's the most fun ever. I have a great time.
I'm waiting for the pickup and my husband's birthday. I'm like,
this is never good news. It's never good news. I
get the call they say we might pick it up,
but we're replacing you. No got fired. No, I got fired.
And it hurt. When I tell you it hurt. It was.
(27:26):
It was probably the most painful thing because I felt
like such a hero, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Of course, and also the thing about that people don't
realize about actors and dancers and performers. When someone fires you,
when they reject you, they're rejecting like you. They're not
rejecting your ability to do math or your ability to
sell things. They're a rejecting license the face and the
personality and the good teeth and good botox, whatever you
(27:54):
want to call it. That they are firing like you. You know,
talking about that, that feels that just oh it was.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It was so brutal. It was so brutal, you know,
when I was alone and my kid was just a
couple months old, and then I had a two and
a half year old and no prospects, and suddenly the
rejection was so real at something that I had done
so well so many times prior, but I got to
tell you something amazing happens. Thomas Lennon, who is an
amazing comedic actor, called me. He was playing my husband
(28:25):
on the show, and he said, you know, I've got
to tell you something. When they don't know what to
do with a show and it's just not working, they
replace the wife. He said, I've seen it over and again.
He said, I saw your performance. It's great, but something's
not working out the show. So you know, they think
it's you, but it's not. There's something not right with
(28:46):
the show, right, And it was such a kind generous
thing to say.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Meanwhile, the girl that replaced me is like amazing. She's
a colleague of mine that I've known a million years.
I haven't seen her since she replaced me in this
but I have fantasies about like me just throwing my
arms around her and saying, can we still be friends?
So this was about five years ago. So the night
that the Deadline article came out saying that this girl
(29:11):
was replacing me on this show, it was a Friday.
By the way, if a story is announced on Deadline
on a Friday, it's up all week out, right. So
my girlfriend who worked at AB still works at ABC,
texted me and she said, she said vodka, tequila, aha,
(29:34):
And I said tequila. She said, I'll be there at seven. Right.
All this time, I'm hopping around to different friends' houses. Right,
I was staying at Jennifer Westfeld's house at the time
and with my two children. And so she shows up.
Her name is simmer and Sethie. We met in a
book club one hundred years ago and she's just a true, true,
wonderful friend. And she sat me down. She said, Okay,
(29:56):
I Wikipedia, you said, you've been around forever. You have
an unbelievable reputation in this industry. You've done forty five pilots.
Everybody loves you. Why are you not directing? And I
told her this story, which is the reason why I'm
not directing. And the story is, I was on my
(30:16):
soap opera. I was on I was the Reld Turns.
I was fifteen, and you know, it was the most
fun that job. So this is right around un zipped
right when you became my hero. So I'm on this
show and I'm I'm on the set and say we're
shooting on these big broadcast cameras, right, and there's this
(30:37):
camera operators, this old guy, and he's got a cigarette
hanging out of his mouth. And I went up to
him and I said, hey, can I hold the camera? Like,
can I get back there? You know, because I was
just dying to see what it felt like to hold
that camera in my hands. And he said, why don't
you stick to wear in your bikini? No? Yeah, but
(30:57):
you know what, Isaac, I looked really good at a.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
But I said.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
What I said to him was well, why can't I
hold the camera?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
And where?
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeh? But but what it was the introduction to me
of you know, that multi hyphen it that we come against.
And also a good example of the patriarchy because at
the time I didn't know any female directors, right, it
was something boys did. That was a man thing, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
You know or something or like.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
But like people that I knew every director that I
was coming in contact with, you know, it was it
was very rare, very rare. Yeah, And that's that's just
the patriarchy at work. Great, you know, so I am
if nothing else, I know how to play, you know,
I know how to figure out in a room almost
(31:52):
to like a brain has broken, ADHD level, what my
place is, what the tone is, when I should speak
when I should not, you know. And so I deferred
in that moment as by the way you know women do.
And probably that's the only reason I've had the career
I've had is because I know how to follow those
(32:14):
cues and never really considered it again because I thought,
that's just that's what boys do. So here's how I
can express myself, which is in front of the camera. Right.
So when she said that to me, I said, well,
you know, girls don't do that, and she said, that's
not She said, that's not true anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
It's a brain explosion.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
It was a brain explosion. And I said, well, I
don't have to think about it. I mean, of course,
of course I know how to do that, you know.
But I figured out all these ways to kind of
not actually direct, but kind of guide the blocking, kind
of guide the writing, guide the producing from the actor's perspective,
through asking smart questions and kind of getting the result
(32:55):
that I wanted. And so when she called me on this,
I said, I got to think about it. My husband
came home that night, he actually landed from Why that night,
and I I said, I have to talk to you.
I said, I think I'm a director. And he said,
thank god, I've been waiting for you to say this,
and he takes out this is our this is our
life's blood is these yellow pads. He takes out a
(33:17):
yellow pad and he writes at the top of the
yellow pad the word curriculum, and he goes, We're going
to have to educate you, because the worst thing to
do it here is to just start having you say
I'm a director, so not We're gonna need a couple
of years where we educate you and we do this right.
And he started writing this curriculum and he immediately started
ordering all these books about directing, and he said, you're
(33:39):
gonna have to assign yourself mentors. You're gonna have to
fight for this.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
This is going to be my theddest.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Thing you've ever done. And honestly it was. It was humbling.
I mean I keep saying I had to just eat
shit sandwich after shit sandwich, you know, just just hum job,
not even a job, just to get a mentor. Was
you know I am coming to you hat in hand.
I need your help. This is something I know I'm
(34:05):
going to be good at but I'm going to need
your guidance. And I assigned myself essentially professors and started
a post grad program of my own design and really
did truly follow through on that, and it was exhausting
and embarrassing. And then I signed myself the task of
writing a short film a week. And most of them
(34:26):
were just awful and I would never show anybody, but
there were a couple that were pretty good, especially as
time went on. And then one of them I sent
it to Neil, you know, and I said, I think
this has something, and he said, all right, let's shoot it.
And we shot it six hours and I premiered it
at the Sundance Film Festival. It got into Sundance. So
(34:47):
that was so validating, you know that I had come
from just an actress in a bikini to know I'm
determined to do this right to Okay, I did it.
I paid for the short and now we got into
Sunday and then I started getting hired as a director,
and it's amazing. The problem is not that the genius
isn't there. You know, the genius is there, but you
(35:09):
need an advocate. And that's what I find so rewarding,
you know, I started this women's directing program at the
Homework Channel because I had such an impossible time getting
people to advocate for me that I realized that now
I had the access as a working director who knew
a lot of people with this network that makes one
(35:30):
hundred movies a year, and here I am now advocating
for these women. So if it unzipped you with the
fashion design, that was the meat and the sandwich. I
know I'm good at directing. I know I have an
ear and an eye for writing. I know I have
these things, and yet I have no agent.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Right now, rightly.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Unemployed, I got nothing going on. It's like I'm in
this period of time where I really believe in the
book and I can't get anyone to read it.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
You want, Yes, I do, I do. Except you do
have a really cute husband. He's cute. Not only is he?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And you look great? Okay, and you look so there
are two things that are really smart. You are devoted
to dogs. Did you grow up with dogs? How did
that happen? Tell me about that?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Oh my god, it's because because bananas with the dog Rescue?
Do you?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Oh honey, are you kidding? I mean, I try I
want to advocate more and more and more. That's all
I care about.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I mean it, I was inappropriate this weekend, Isaac. I
was at a puppy party. It was a five five
year old's birthday party. And by the way, her mother's amazing,
she's a good friend of mine. But I guess they
throw these puppy parties in LA where somebody brings ten
puppies and all the kids are in a cage just
cuddling with the puppies, which is so good for the dogs,
and you know, it's just amazing. But I went up
(37:01):
my first question, where are these dogs from? Excuse me,
where are these dogs from?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
You know, for you?
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And the woman was like, well, you know, we're holding
onto them, but they are for sale. And I immediately
like kind of couldn't breathe and walked away. And then
one of the I think it was somebody's nanny, was
talking to.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Were they bread dogs or were they rescues? Oh? They
were bread dogs. Right, Honestly, that's a whole category of
dog that I can't even acknowledge or something. That's my problem.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Exactly, because, by the way, I'm sure they're amazing, And
I also hate judging people. But then I know my
secret whisper of the self I do. So anyway, I
was inappropriate with this woman and I said, well, you know,
if you just get said, I really want a docs,
and I said, if you give me three months, I'll
find you a rescue dogs. In a second, I said,
just give me something. She said, but this one's just
so cute. And my husband was like, why don't we
(37:52):
go get some lemonade? Honey, I go a little cuckoo.
So I was great, I'm grateful for him. He sort
of steered me away from her because I don't want
to start a fight with somebody who just is loving
on a dog.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You know, do you have dogs right now?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I just have one.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, her name is Alma. She's my reward because what
I've done for a million years is I get the
dogs that no one wants, and then they bite people
and me and then I have to fight to keep
them alive. And so what I say is that Almah's
like my rewards. She's easy, and I've got two little
kids right now, so I need a dog. So she's
just a cuddle buck.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
By the way, you notice I asked you about your
dog before I asked about your children or your husband. Right,
I'm serious again, handsome husband, right, handsome right, It's true. Okay,
it was a reference. But but but in terms of
like how motherhood and wifehood or something has changed your
perspective or changed your life as an actor and a
(38:50):
producer and a writer, et cetera, tell me a little
bit about that. You Know.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
What's interesting is like, I've been thinking a lot recently
about agism because my sister's fifty, and I feel like
my colleagues are more at the top of our game
than we've ever been. And yet I see this draw
of these young, early twenties, sparkly, just out of college women,
(39:15):
and I just think it's so interesting. My life experience,
being with my husband for twenty years, having these kids,
my ability to communicate, my understanding of the world, you know,
is so much heads and shoulders above what it was
when I was twenty three twenty four. But when I
was twenty three to twenty four. Every door opened to
me when I was young, and now I see them
(39:37):
in an interesting way, kind of closing, And I think
it's society's draw towards youth. But the truth is, I've
never been better at what I do, and I just
find that fascinating, you know, yes, yes, yes, So I
don't know if that answers your questions.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Well, it does a little bit, It does a little bit,
you know. I was talking to Alissa Milano for a
podcast about a week ago, and she was saying, you know, Isaac, like,
I don't want to be one of those grasping cuckoo
actresses who is just constantly doing work on their face,
thinking we don't know, thinking we can't google them, you know,
so that maybe they'll still be like close to an ingenue,
(40:15):
if not an ingenow or maybe the young mom or something.
She's like, I don't want to do that. I just
don't want to do that. And I'm not exactly sure
what she's going to do, but like, do you think
about this, Like what do you think you're going to do?
What do you think you're going to do?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I think I'm going to be an actor forever, and
I think the parts are only going to get more interesting,
but they're going to get fewer and further between. Right.
The good news is I'm a really reliable hire, Like
I'm a solid choice. Right, every job I get, I
nail it and it's great, but I am finding as
I get older, those opportunities are just getting fewer, you know,
(40:51):
which is which is interesting. And consequently I am writing,
I'm directing, I'm producing, and my hope is that that
diversification and can keep me employed until you know, I
do have this fantasy about like me naked in a
hot tub in my mid sixties, smoking and just with
a bunch of women just doing tarot cards, like that's
(41:13):
what I want, that's the goal, you know, And I
got that.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Where did how did a nice East Coast girl get
such cuckoo sort of West Coast aspirations for her?
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know, for a long time? But you know, that's
what do we want to say when we're staring up
at the night sky with our boobs hanging out? Like
who do we want to be?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And I maybe just a little ayahuasca, just a little
ayahuasca like a micro dose, but I want to be present.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
I want to feel it all, you know, And I'm
looking forward to being her and seeing where I am now,
you know, through her lens and saying what a time
I had And remember when I couldn't get arrested and
then my agent dropped me and then but then that
was the year such and such happened, right right, Like
I always say, it's not a six year career, it's
(42:02):
a sixty year career. Yes, it is, so Yes, I
can't wait to meet her.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
So wait, speaking of your old age, this is a
question I ask everybody, and it's about your obituary. Do
you know what you want your life to have meant? Like?
What is your life supposed to mean in your obituary?
And let's assume the picture is really good. Let's assume
the picture they pick is really really good.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Better be I better be in a bikini. Yeah, I'd
like to borrow a phrase from the first line of
my husband's wedding vows to me, which was, today, I'm
marrying the best kind of crazy person. I would like
that to be included in my obituary because that's the thing.
(42:45):
I like, a full colorful life. I like the highs
and the lows, you know, And representing my failures in
my obituary is important to me because that's where my
strength has grown, you know. And so there definitely that.
But then there's something else that is really important to me,
which is advocating for women. This is something that I
(43:07):
want to be remembered for because I'm doing it literally
all day, every day right now in this women's directing
program at Hallmark, I think is just the beginning. We
need advocacy from our fellow women, you know. And also,
by the way, like we would be nowhere without middle
aged white men as well. But you know, I want
(43:30):
to be the person who pulled people up or across
or just you know. The female bond that I have
with my peers right now means so much to me,
and being able to open up doors for people less
experienced than me is fulfilling me more than any of
the work I've ever done. I want that to be
(43:50):
in the obituary.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
That can be as well. It's a long obituarity feeling.
It's a full page with a tracer on the front page.
I'm too serious. I'm not kidding. That's what that's going
to be, my feeling. But now, finally, what would you
like to promote on this podcast? Anything?
Speaker 1 (44:08):
You know what I'd like to promote. Yeah, I'm wildly
available for hire.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well that is amazing. I thought you were going to say,
like such and such a dog rescue or like such
and such a women's no do I well, I was
going to say that too. No, usually that's people promote totally, totally.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I'd like to make an offer for a job. You know,
you can just email me.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
That is sheep. That is really chic. I like that.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
But yes, of course. So advocacy wise, the make her
Mark Women's Directing program at Homemark. I'm very proud of that.
I'd love for people to know about that. I raise
money for the Alzheimer's Association. My mother passed away from Alzheimer's.
We throw a gigantic dance party every fall and we
raise money and we've raised one point two million dollars
for their research grand program at the Alzheimer's Association. Super
(45:01):
proud of that. And then yeah, best friends dogs.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Thinks you yay, it's all about dogs for me.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, that's the thesis.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
People don't realize. They think it's yoga, or they think
it's whatever. It's not. It's meditation. No, it's dogs.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Dogs.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Well, now that we're best friends, Ashley seriously call me constantly.
I love you. I didn't even know I loved you. Well,
I knew I loved you now I love love love Loaf.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
It's really intense. It's really intense to hang out with.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
What sign are you? What's your birth? Ye oh nice, I'm.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Super kind, Like I don't have that kind of back
stay thing about me.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
No, no, no, no no. Some of my favorite people a scorpio.
Are you kidding? I'm like this with several several scorpios.
One of my best friends in the world is a scorpio.
My account scorpio.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Huh really means what are you?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
I'm a libra darling my sister?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah, yeah, I get it all right, Well, you're amazing.
This is incredible.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Well, who knew that Ashley Williams and I are best friends?
I didn't even know that, But that's just the fact, right.
We found that out by the end of that hour
long chat, and I feel so fulfilled. I love that
someone would come onto the podcast and be so vulnerable about,
(46:29):
you know, for one thing, not being employed like that
is really really so inspiring to me, you know. And
one of the things that really resonated with me was
when she said that her life's dream is to be
a creative person who ends up supporting themselves in that capacity.
Like that is where we completely see eye to eye.
(46:51):
You know, that's sort of also my life's dream. Anyway,
thank you so much for tuning in. I'm really glad
you got a chance to hear that talk because it
was amazing and now now we're best friends. Darlings. If
you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor and tell someone,
Tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell
(47:13):
everyone you know. Okay, and be sure to rate the show.
I love rating stuff. Go on and rate and review
the show on Apple Podcasts so more people can hear
about it. It makes such a gigantic difference and like
it takes a second, so go on and do it.
And if you want more fun content videos and posts
(47:35):
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast And by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at. I Am Isaac, Mssrahi.
This is Isaac, Missrahi. Thank you, I love you and
I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello
(47:59):
Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and I
AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia. The series is hosted by me
Isaac Musrati. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The
senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti. It is
executive produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazerkarra Welker, and Nathan
(48:21):
Cloke at Imagine, Audio production management from Katie Hodges, Sound
design and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by
Ben Waltzer. A special thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah
Katanak at i AM Entertainment
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