December 4, 2023 • 55 mins
Isaac Mizrahi goes deep with Emmy-nominated actor, Tituss Burgess. They talk about how Tituss is wrestling with his difficult childhood, getting over his 10-year relationship, writing the score for the new musical, “The Preacher’s Wife” and more. Plus, Isaac discovers what he really wants in his obituary.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Tituss Burgess @instatituss.
(Recorded on November 6, 2023)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you really want to get to it. You know,
my body. I have such a strange relationship with it
because I always see little fat Titus, a little unworthy
fat Titus, and I have to talk to him often
and remind him that all of those things that we
learned are not true. It doesn't always work, but I'm
(00:21):
a little obsessed with trying to look my best forever,
running away from whatever I thought my worst was. And
I don't like that that is my motivation, but it is,
and that is the truth.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This is Hello Isaac. My podcasts about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Musraian. In
this episode, I talk to Emmy nominated actor and Broadway
star Titus Burgess.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hello, Isaac, it's tight as Burgess. Wait did you give
me the right number? It's just the right number. Well,
I hope it is, call me back. Can't wait to.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Titus Burgess has always been one of my favorite performers,
and I always love watching him. I think he's just
so fascinating as not just a performer, but also as
a personality. And I've always wanted to meet him, and
I've always wanted to talk to him. And today I'm
excited to hear about not just who he is as
(01:23):
an artist, but also I'm going to try to find
out who he is as a person. So let's get started.
Titus Burgess. Hi, Hi. First of all, look how fresh
you look?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I just loo oh really well, you look fresh?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And you know what I want to ask you, is
Titus Burgess your real name? Or is that is that
is your actual given name?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
My mom named me Titus Lamont Burgess Titus out of
the Bible. It's one of the smallest books in the Bible,
and Lamont after Sam Inside.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, come on, that's amazing. I love all that. It's
funny because I like talking to people of your age
because you're not quite as damn old as me. But
you're also not like the kind of I don't know,
the TikTok generation. Even though I know social media is
quite important to you. By the way, it actually okay,
(02:22):
And I don't everythink.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean, I scroll on Instagram just as much as
the next person, and I suppose my attention span is
probably just as small as the next person because everything
is in sound bites. Right. However, the need to be
incessantly seen via these platforms is not it's too it's
(02:44):
a full time job and I don't have that type
of energy. When I have something to say, then I
go on there and I say it, or if I'm
feeling particularly cheeky, then I'll, you know, do it. But
I don't sit and premeditate what I offer up. If
it comes up, it comes out somehow.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Like I find your Instagram posts incredibly engaging, and I
wish you had a podcast, like you're one person I
wish would have a podcast that I could listen to
because I think you're really fun to listen to and
pretty smart. Well, just that whole statement about social media
I find really really smart. Can we do a little
history lesson about you? Because reading and reading about it?
(03:27):
Where are you from? Originally?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I'm originally from Athens, Georgia, but my birth through about
eight years old was in Stephens, Georgia, which is about
twenty minutes outside of Athens. I grew up on a
farm my grandmother and my granddad. We raised hogs and
chickens and horses, and they had call it green fills
(03:50):
and corn fills and all that, and so I I
was up at the crack of dawn with my grandma
getting the eggs out of the barn.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So tell me where is this whole kind of show
business gene came from?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
You know? Isaac? That is uh a sidebar, just a
little small diatribe. I loved your TV show, thank you.
I did, and I was just talking about the other day.
I was like, you were so engaging and so the
antithesis of all things Hollywood, and you made everyone feel
(04:26):
so comfortable. Wow, that's a very That's a hard thing
to do when you're trying to do a TV show.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
But well, I mean everything's hard, you know, everything's really
really hard to do. I think, all right, enough of
this mutual admiration, darling back to you, where do you
think this show business gene comes from? If you're growing
up on a farm, how did you discover your calling?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
My mom sang, and my grandma other could sing, And
my earliest memories of being in front of people were
in the church, and I thought that everyone could sing,
and that everyone was a not a performer, but that
(05:15):
everyone could do what I was doing, until I realized
that that was not the case. And being on stage
feels the same as singing. A solo in Sunday School.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, it's funny because I know that religion bears a
big kind of part in your life, and it still does,
does it not? Do you go to.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I very much got I belong to a church called
Middle Collegiate Church in the East Village, And I would
say I am culturally Christian, but I believe a lot
of things and many things can be true, and there
are many ways to the Wizard of Oz. So my
God is not the only way for you to find
inspiration and for your soul to be saved or you know,
(05:57):
I could care less night that. I just want people
to be happy. To the Church of Happiness, to the
Church of source energy, and whatever drudges up that feeling
for you, whatever it could be your dogs, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It is my dog.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
If you walk around feeling a sense of hope and love,
then you go to my church.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So just to be clear, like do you believe in God?
Or for you do believe God? Was I don't? And
the thing is like I grew up in a very
religious background too. It wasn't on a farm. It was
in a house in Brooklyn and a yeshiva, and it
was really scary and you know, just for one minute,
if you could kind of acknowledge, you know, what the
Bible says about artists, and what the Bible says about homosexuals,
(06:40):
and what the Bible says about unclean fibers. There's a
lot of stuff, So talk about that for just a minute.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So I want to be very frank. I don't really
care so much about what the Bible says. There's many
things in the Bible that just cancel me out right.
But thankfully, my connection with God lives outside of those
stories and those parables, and I think more people would
(07:10):
stand a chance to feel that connection where we not
so indoctrinated with Helfi and Brimstone and religion is scary
and it is weaponized, and it makes total sense why
they're atheists and people who don't believe. And I often wonder,
here's something else I have to believe in, something outside
(07:31):
of me, otherwise it gets too cerebral for me, and
I feel like I'm just out here floating. You know,
I don't know what's going to happen. You know, when
I close my eyes for the last time and take
my last breath, I think I believe that I'll you
know see my loved ones who've passed on. But probably
because I was taught that, I don't know that I,
(07:53):
in my heart actually feel that way. I don't know
what the fuck is going to happen? Yeah, beyond he
and now. But I had to believe that the here
and now serves a greater purpose than just the here
and now. There's too much happening in the world and
too much work that we have to do to try
(08:15):
and salvage what's left of this beautiful place that we
were handed for me not to believe.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So except what I'm kind of getting at, did you
have a happy childhood in church? Like? Was that a
particularly happy experience?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
View? No? No, no, you no, it wasn't. You know?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
How did you find your way to that? Do you
know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
If you don't want to talk about it, just say, like, let's.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I will to you about anything I hide. You know.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I am in the midst of such a sort of
a crisis of faith. You know, I believe in my
own kind of spirituality. I never really believed in God.
I'm so nihilistic. I'm so kind of outside or outside
or outside, And I wonder how a person like you
who grew up in the church, probably not the most
happy childhood. I mean, I read some stuff about you.
(09:06):
I'm just assuming from what I read and how you
actually have come to this incredibly beautiful place where you
are now with religion.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Let me see if I can walk us through it.
You know, my childhood has given way to some traumas
that have caused me to make some really unhealthy choices
in my adult life that I'm still trying to bring
into focus. But what keeps me connected to God is
(09:35):
that I am still here. I get to sing, I
get to make people happy. I feel the love of
spirit around me. I've talking to you. My vibration is
raising that energy exists before us and after us and
right now and long when we're gone. You know, for instance,
(09:58):
this is going to sound crazy. You know, we listen
to Judy Garland saying right, and we do to all
of those wonderful concerts or whatever. But the joy and
the sincerity and the way she was able to connect
so transcendently, that is God.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I agree with that energy.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Music is God. There's so many ways to the epicenter
of the zenith of what we are and our possibility
and what we are capable of, and we are inundated
with so many ugly versions of us that it is
easy to be unclear and not be able to sense
(10:38):
that sort of light and love and warmth. At all times.
I wrestle with it. I'm not always as close to
the spirit world as I am able to summon today.
Last week even it was pretty bleak, it got really dark,
But I always bounce back. My natural set point is,
(11:00):
is joy me too? Exactly? That's good, that.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Is it's true, it's something, it's really something. I agree
with you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Whatever you want. We can call it love, we can
call it light, we can call it spirituality. However you
break it down though the recipe, you know, the composition
of it is something greater than us, that lives both
outside of us and inside of us.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And you feel it especially when what when you're singing,
when you're on stage. Do you feel it when you're
filming something for TV or.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
For the movie? Now?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Do you don't?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I do? I do. I'm very inspired. There's a crazy
kind of thing that I'm feeling from you right now.
I'm taking a lot of inspiration just looking at you.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, And so.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I feel this feeling, whether I am making you a
meal and cooking for you, or whether I am talking
to a stranger and having that uncanny, strange connection, or
when I am looking into my.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Dog's eyes like it's everywhere and always available to us.
It's just activation. And that is something that I'm learning
and relearning, learning and relearning, learning and relearning. And that
is why I had not left the church. That is
why I have not left seeking God. That is why
(12:30):
that curiosity has not escaped me, because I know that
it is always there.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, Wow, darling, that is very very powerful, I mean it.
And it's funny because you know, yesterday it was a
particularly lousy day and I just I had such a
terrible struggle yesay, just kind of overcoming my thoughts about
the future and my thoughts about the future of the world.
And ah, I mean there were a million terrible stories
(12:55):
in the news and a million terrible stories in my
own life. And funny, today, I feel so much better.
And it's because, like you said, we are able as
human beings to find some kind of something. I just
refer to it as inspiration. All right, So tell me something, darling.
Do you get stage fright?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Oh? Yes, oh yes, Mulin Rouge my return to Broadway.
This is a after fourteen years of being absent from
the stage. I don't know if lack of preparation gives
way to stage fright or if fear is just because
you care.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
No, it's not lack of preparation, Darling. We are extremely prepared.
We are very very prepared.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I care about the information people receive from me. I
care about even when I don't have the energy or
am able to even focus enough to deliver the right
kinds of things. But I care about it nonetheless, and
that makes me constantly panics, Drick the moment I hit
(14:01):
the stage, because the performance that I give, that is
the only church some people are going.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
To see, well experience, right exactly, But I have to
tell you me too. I mean I get terrible, debilitating
stage fright.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
And I was in a play last year. I was
in Chicago for two months and yeah, I was, Yeah,
and I know the show and I knew the stuff,
and they rehearse the shit out of me. And I
worked on it and I really did, and it didn't matter.
It wasn't about the preparation. It was about whether I
could force myself to be present the minute I walked
on stage, because how many times you go to the
(14:37):
theater and just hate what you're seeing, titis and so like,
I don't want to be the thing that people go like,
oh god, that show is so good until he came out,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Oh come on, no one's going to do that. Did
you enjoy it?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Oh my god, yes I did. I enjoyed it. And
it was a challenge just because every single night like
it did not abate the stage, fright, did not a bay.
It was better at sometimes and better at sometimes. And
then I did this whole brain fart thing where every
single time my music would come up, I got and
I couldn't remember the what. And it went on for
(15:13):
so many nights that the conductor came to my dress
room and he said, you know, do we have to
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, it's not about drilling.
It's not about drilling. I've drilled the shit out of this.
I know every syllable of it.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's just about that moment where you go, can I
just be here right? It's just about being there in
that moment, you know, so existent I wonder I.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Think the great performers, uh in our in their hey day.
You know, I've read Imagined Judy Garlic, you know Elaine Stridge,
and she goes on and on about going up on
the opening night of Company and she couldn't remember the
lady wonderful story, it's so good. And Hal Prince comes
to her door and he says, you know, that was
(15:54):
the last night, Elaine, Yes, tonight is this night, and
just sort of retrains for me because I tend to
carry last night's performance into the next night, trying to
top what I've done. Of course that I but truly though,
the circumstances are different, and they serve us. They're there
(16:16):
to help us, the audience, the collective mindset of the audience.
They are the other character that we don't often consider,
and they inform us, you know, And there's so many
ways to snap us into focus. But what we don't
give full gravity to. I think, Isaac, is it's hard
being on earth right now.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It's really hard, really hard. Yes it is, Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And the way we consume information is so different than
ten years ago, twenty years ago. So it stands to
reason that the type of focus that we are trying
to summon and enact it is different than what it
was fourteen years ago when I was on Broadway. So
I taking myself a little more grace when we were
(17:02):
doing the thing and trying to, you know, make people
happy with with with our art. It takes a different
type of focus altogether today to do what we do.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I think so too, Darling. Is there someone who influenced
you as a performer?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
M Renee Fleming?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Really that is a big surprise to me.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my degree is in music. It's
not in theater.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The opera star Renee Fleming, the fabulous opera singer who's
so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
She's just she's an amazing actress.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I've always thought, you know, when I was in school
studying classical music, I was like, this is to me
largely kind of boring, if not inaccessible, you know, and
opera it's slowly changing, but it's a bit of an
elitist sport for any reasons. People's socioeconomic backgrounds don't allow
(17:55):
for the ticket price, so you don't, you know, get
to consume it the way people who are wealthier perhaps
would and have exposed to blah blah blah. So there
are many reasons why I thought opera and classical music
was inaccessible until I encountered Renee Fleming.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Wow, that's she's gonna Does she know this?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
She is a pal she does, and I've had the
privilege of singing alongside her, which completely blew my mind.
But the thing that I appreciate most about what she
does doesn't matter what genre she is doing, because she
is able to waltz in and out of so many
different genres of music. But it is her ability to
(18:38):
cradle a story and be so honest about it. She's
never in front of the material. It's never Renee forward.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's always about It's about Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And that is what struck me long before her flawless
vocals did, and her ability to act through operas that
everyone's done before, but she always find something so new
to do with the material. I just am blown away
by our artistry.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Tell me something you don't come across as someone who
has confidence issues. Do you suffer from like imposter syndrome?
Do you wake up in the morning going like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're gonna find out today.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I don't have imposter syndrome when it comes to art.
I know that when I open my mouth. It's a
god thing. Again, something else takes over and so I
don't have to worry about being great. It's gonna happen
in spite of me. This is why I don't have
(19:47):
a podcast, is because I am more concerned with my
walk in life and wanting it to match up what
I taught. And sometimes I want to take great care
to not be a hypocrite because I really do care
about what people not think of me. But I want
(20:08):
to be transparent, so you know, that gives me more like, oh,
I'm not living up to my standards of being a
good human today as perhaps I could, where I had
to strive a little harder, or maybe had a bad
day or maybe you know, cut someone out. You know,
that kind of thing, kind of you know haunts me.
But imposter syndrome when it comes to are, Nah, it's
(20:32):
gonna be there. We're gonna do what it's gonna do.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That's incredible. I mean there's a part of that that
resonated with me. You know, it's not about so much
imposter syndrome, but I think knowing that I was a
good performer, and knowing I was a good designer, and
knowing I was good at certain things that kind of
led me. Yeah, like that I could set myself up
to do all that stuff. I could make deals to
(20:56):
appear and I could make deals because I could get there,
and I know I can do that job. But I
have to tell you, like this morning, I thought, oh, yeah, yeah,
is tight as gonna find out that I don't know
what the hell I'm doing, that I'm an idiot or something.
You know, I swear to God almost always. I have
a lot of like dread and fear of being sort
of I don't know what exposed as a what might.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
We find out? Isaac, I'm seriously darling.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I don't you know, I don't that I'm by the way, okay,
here's the thing that I'm not as good as Renee Fleming,
you know what I mean. And by the way, I'm
not as good as like, you know, Whitney Houston. I'm
not as good as Liza Minelli.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
You would never be hired to hear this whole thing.
Me too.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We will never be No, of course not. But I mean,
don't you want to make sure that you are the
best Titus Burgess in the entire world and that you
are doing exactly right? And what you're supposed to be doing.
You don't ever see any kind of there's not a
challenge to that. There isn't a challenge never. I don't Wow,
(21:58):
this is amazing, and you know I feel that from you,
And that's part of what's so inspiring about you. Did
you ever fail in some way that you've felt that
you've felt really shaped you, that helped you move on?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
I can answer this question this way. There are moments
where I don't live up to my name. There are
moments where I fall short and I feel that crippling
embarrassment and I run away from that feeling, and that
feeling and not wanting to feel that feeling governs a
(22:31):
lot of my moves and how I edit art as
I go along. But I feel a lack of confidence,
just like as a man, as a single man, as
a black man, and as I dare to be a
better human. That's kind of where I'm like, Oh, they're
(22:53):
gonna find out that I too don't know what the
fuck I'm doing. But it's not art, it's my walk
in life.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
No, it's true. That's true. That's one funny thing that
you said, because that I've always known as an artist
don't fuck with me, fellas. Yeah, like, don't fuck with
me fellas. Do you see a shrink?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Hell?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yah?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Oh thank god, oh god. Okay, well that's a good answer.
I'm not going to ask you to the question. But
you know, I found out from kind of devouring your
Instagram page a little bit over the past day or
two that you have a few sleep issues, which, Darling,
we share this in common. What sign are you? What? PERI?
I sees, Oh, my god, the wateriest the water, the
(23:35):
end of the end of the world, Darling, the end
of the end of the world.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Like crippling emotions. Like just the other night in Saturday,
we had two shows. I didn't sleep well Friday, and
obviously your emotions like are all over the place, and
I already don't need help with my emotions being all
over the place. I went over to my friend's house
and I sobbed. I just I felt like it's like
I can't do the sh I was sitting ordering sushi
(24:02):
in between shows for dinner and I started crying like something,
you know, and I didn't know what it was or whatever,
but I'm just out of a ten year relationship. I
know that too, And so I'm still grieving that, and
I'm still you know, wrestling with a lot of stuff
that occurred in my childhood that is starting to boil
(24:27):
up to the surface or whatever. So at any moment,
it's anyone's guess which tightest you're gonna get. You know,
these emotions of mine, they sideswiped these shit out of me,
and it comes up when I'm about to walk on
stage or I mean, it's just it's it's really and
so sleep I think. So. I took a sleep study test,
(24:49):
which reminds.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Me of years ago.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Well did you pass? Do you have something?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
It wasn't about passing or failing, it was just, you know,
I went to one of those clinics for two nights
and they studied me while I was and they told
me about patterns and they went over my nutrition. It
helped not at all.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Oh, no, do you sleep with the machine that see
if I know?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Oh no, no, no, I don't have apnea. I just
have insomble. Oh because you have sleep apnea. Oh I see,
I see. Well at least we'll see.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I'll tell me. But I'm pretty sure I did because
I literally stopped breathing when yeah, it's really bad. It's bad,
and so I'm always tired and I don't know what.
I got a good night's sleep, uh Thursday night, and
so Friday show was particularly great. But the feeling that
(25:35):
I felt that wasn't cloudy. I was able to focus
and I was able to do my day. And I thought,
is this what people?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
No, no, no, Let me give you a little advice.
Darling is an old insomniac. Okay. One, It's so funny.
The performance thing never never, and you think it's going
to and you think you had a good show Friday
because you slept on Thursday. That's bullshit. A good show
Friday because you thought, oh, I can now have a
good show. You can have a good show whenever you
(26:04):
want to have a good show. Okay one.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Two.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I mean this too. As you get older, it gets
a little bit easier. You'll see that, like over the
course of like ten years, and then another ten years,
and by a certain point, like right now, I don't
really feel like an insomniac anymore. And I rarely take
sleeping pills anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Rarely sleep, Like how about sleep? You sleep?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Well? I mean, the problem right now with all the
world's problems and problems with people and all that. I'm
having a little bit more trouble sleeping, and I sleep
more erratically, like I sleep like not at all, and
then I sleep for like hours.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's a real pendulous thing. But you know, I got
my first dog and he helped a little bit. And
then I met my husband and that helped a little bit.
And then I got my second dog, and the second
dog really helped the sleeping thing. It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know, how long have you been married.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We've been married since twenty eleven. Oh wow, that's and
we know each other likes changed what when I spoke
about Yeah, you'll have to meet him eventually. He's so,
he's a wonderful person. But darling back to you, I'm sorry.
There's a kind of conditioning that I read about, Like,
(27:12):
you know, your childhood. First of all, I think you
were a fat kid. Is that?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yes, so is I. That's another thing we have in common,
the sleep thing and the fat thing. Right and by
the way, right now, she's looking very skinny, honey. I
don't know what that's about. We're not supposed to celebrate
that or even care about that.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
No, a little bit. It doesnt matter. Well, I've been
nipped and tucked Isaac. But I also have had a
personal trainer for about a year and a half, which
I also thought would help my sleep. Nope, And so
that it's something else that you know, that whole imposter thing.
I don't know how to receive affection or if you
(27:53):
really want to get to it. You know, my body.
I have such a strange relationship with it because I
I always see little fat Titus, a little unworthy fat Titus,
and I have to talk to him often and remind
him that all of those things that we learned are
not true. It doesn't always work, but I'm a little
(28:15):
obsessed with trying to look my best forever, running away
from whatever I thought my worst was. And I don't
like that that is my motivation, but it is, and
that is the truth.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah. Well, speaking of these kind of feelings that you
grow up with and that you're conditioned, right, and I'm
telling you, you know, I was bullied the whole thing.
I'm sure you were too. And the thing I felt
the most sensitive about was not being a feminis, not
being queer, nothing. When they taunted me for being fat,
(28:48):
it really really really hurt and I'm not exactly sure
what that's about. I think it's because it was like
an issue for my mother too. You know, my mother
was really really like, ah, my god, she was completely
on my case about being fat, you know, and not
that she shouldn't be or she should be.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Did she know that what she was mister?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
No, no, no, no, it wasn't an intentionally cruel thing.
But I was going to ask you, like, these kind
of like setbacks that you've had in your life, are
these like moments where you're being kind of challenged? Do
you feel good about your past? Like would you change anything?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, you would.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I mean I didn't need to be taunted and he
to learn some of the lessons I now. No, I
didn't need to be molested to you know, know some
of the things that I know. I didn't need to
grow up in a house full of depressed people and
be tasked with taking care of their emotional health to
(29:54):
be the Pisces sensitive soul that I have become what
I do some over, yeah, would it have made a difference,
I don't know, Isaac. I mean, you know, it all
shapes how you see the right now right, It all
shapes your incessant need to make sure that your didn't
design elements are christeing and perfect. You know, it's hard
(30:16):
to let me retrack that no, I would not change anything.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well only because I feel like, as we look now
at the way people are raised right, like they are
given such a wide berth. You know, when you think
about did you see that show called Jamie?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oh wait London, I was in love.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I can not see that you even.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Say, okay, well, because I left there thinking, well, you know,
his mother got him his first pair of platform shoes.
How much can I care about this character?
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
It's like seriously right, I mean, with the way people
are accepted today, I keep thinking if I were raised
that way, what would I be? Now? Don't you think
this little bit of grit, or all of the grit
that you have had to put up with, isn't that
what makes you this incredibly like? Don't you like love
that you're so sensitive pisces, et cetera. Doesn't that make
(31:10):
you an artist?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Do I love it? Like?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Aren't you an artist because of the adversaries? You know?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Very good? Yes, of course it avails me to a
level of empathy that my art definitely benefits from but
as a human, very recently, I've been able to to
not let it run me. But for a while, you know,
(31:35):
my emotions were running them up and sort of governing
all my choices until I got into therapy and you know,
started to unpack everything because everything was sort of lumped
under one umbrella. But you know, sure, the darkness that
I carry, the darkness that I inherited, does very much
(31:55):
play a part, but also so does the light a
great deal of the life. And you know, even more
so because when I'm able to be in it, when
I'm able to truly stand in it, there's no other
feeling like it. It is the closest I feel to God.
Is the closest I feel to what I believe God feels.
(32:17):
You know, if God has feelings, Fuck, I don't know,
but you know, so I hesitate to praise the darkness
and not illuminate the light.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
But you talk so openly about your past and about
what it was like for you as a kid and
being molested in all of that, and I feel like
that is a very, very very big help in this world.
There is something brave about that. You know, a lot
of people probably wouldn't talk about that too too much,
you know. So I feel like maybe giving you know,
(32:49):
air to that kind of darkness is one way to
transform it into lightness. You know.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Oh, I think it's the only way. I don't know
how to keep stuff to myself. I tend to try
and tell it before you can find it out. And
celebrity culture is we have so much sway in the world,
and people hang on our every word to an unhealthy degree.
I feel sometimes and I just think my desire, especially
(33:15):
if I'm going to be out in the world, being
so accessible and people you know, able to come up
and talk to me, YadA, YadA, if you're following me,
There's not so much that I want you to know
every detail in my life. But I just need you
to know I'm human, you know, and I need you
to be able to borrow from that. I need you
to be able to benefit more from me than just
(33:37):
what you know me. For I think that is my
call to action. That is my church where I am
the pastor, And that's a you know, a check you
can take to the bank in cash, darling.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So how important is your personal story in this your
preparation for kind of like going on stage tonight in
Mola Rouge, right, Like, you are tightest doing that role? Right,
You're not Jerry or Back. I don't know who the
hell would do that role. I'm trying to think of
like somebody who would do a great job with that role.
You know, it's like you're not whoever it is doing
(34:17):
that role. You are you doing that role? How much
does your own kind of personality bring to like first
of all, you're so funny. Do you write stuff? Do
you write jokes?
Speaker 1 (34:29):
No? Well, I do write, but not comedy.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
You never did stand up? You never did like stand okay,
right right, I'm just asking.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
No, no, no, I am an actor. Give me the
words and I'll exst. But it's interesting you bring that
up though, because I was just taking with my publicist
today telling which talk shows to not ever put me
on ever again. Some formats need sound bites, and you
know it's it's more for improv people than you know
(34:58):
straight up in I can talk like this, I know
how to do this. I'm not a comedian and I
don't understand it and I don't have that type of mind.
But how important is my story in my performance?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Is?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
You know Mulan Rouge is not particularly you know, close
to my story, but there are elements of that character
that resonate with me. For instance, you know, he's tasked
with being the showman, the ring master, but he's in
charge of a fledgling company that's about to go under,
and you know, I understand the sad clown of it all.
(35:37):
And that was my way into playing this character and
bringing all of the hurt and darkness and the responsibility
to smile and nod when you don't feel like it,
and it adds a certain sinister quality to it, I find,
and it's it's working for the character. But I try
and bring all of me into whatever I'm doing, even
(35:58):
when I don't feel like it, because you can't fake
how you.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Feel, you know, right, So like how do you prepare
to go on stage? Like when do you eat? For instance,
before it's a real slot, it's a slag, right, It's.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
So like I mean, I'm just now sort of reintegrating
the discipline that it takes to do a broalys show
back into my life and really like making sure that
I eat because I'm also type to you diabetic and
so it just go sure, Harry, you know, and like
every moments I'm like, am I going to pass out?
What did I eat today? So you know, I don't.
I don't have a regimen, per se or a routine.
(36:35):
I try and sleep as much as possible, which, as
you know, is hard for me. But that show takes
all of my energy, all of it. So I don't
pack my days with a lot and I'm trying, you know,
stay quiet because of course, at the moment you wake up,
your it's your day is in service.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
To that one show. And do you review the material?
Do you learn up?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Oh? Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Okay, you are my brain.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I absolutely want to. Yeah, yeah, but I will know
right away from the first inhalation I take when I
open my eyes what I have to do to get
my voice, performance writing. And sometimes I wake up and
it's just there and there's not a great deal to do.
But I think that's just sort of my school training
and such.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And like what I kind of insist is that like,
no matter what, no matter how, every single moment on
stage is planned and you have to be somewhere to
catch a light and you have to say something. So
the trombone knows that that's this, you know, right, It
always has to be somewhat different. I like really think
(37:41):
that that's true, you know, I how do you do that?
How do you make it different every single night?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So personally, I don't think that I'm am actively trying
to make it different. It just is justiss the very
nature of live theater. There's a nownesst to it that
has never been and never will be, even if it's
the same text, you know, and our show is the
construct of it is it's such that there's never the
(38:10):
same people in it every night because it's always a swing.
It's always a swing. Someone's on, life happens, you know, whatever.
So those type type things also contribute to it's fresh,
because it literally is fresh. You know, as long as
you're there and showing up, you have no other choice
about to respond in a right now sort of way.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
But here's the thing. If you're really listening to someone
on stage, or if you're really listening to yourself and
like saying things that you've never said before, right, you
might just get caught. I mean that's what happens to me.
I get like, oh wait, oh right, wait, sorry, there's
another thing I'm supposed to do now, right, Oh okay,
So you have to kind of pull yourself. It's kind
(38:51):
of like a medium, isn't it. It's like because if
you went totally into that thing, you would disappear, and
you show.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah yeah, no, only an awareness that creeps in that
you were up on stage doing a performance that can
both serve you and fuck you up, you know. So
there's a healthy balance of that. But I try, I
try to listen as much as possible because that is
(39:18):
the only thing that kind of keeps you on, keeps
your toes on that stage. Otherwise you drift off when
you start making your gross reliss while you're a.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Lot right well, that you can't do I mean that
you can't do. You can't do that. So wait, so
earlier you were talking about, you know, feeling a little
off center because you recently broke up with your husband
of twenty nine years. You're just your ten years I
been married.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I never wanted to get married, but now I do.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Now you do? You see, don't I don't blame you?
Can I talk to you for a minute. When did
you break up with your significant other? When did that happen?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Let's see that happened almost it'll be two years this
coming December. Wow, the initial conversation, and it has taken
me as much time to uh retrieve my energy from
that partnership.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Well wait a minute, can I pimp for you? By
the way, if I know some people to introduce you to, Like, seriously.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Guys, talk to me, Isaac. I don't know what it is.
And what's that about.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
You're so cute, you're so amazing, you're so sexy. Wait
a second, and by the way, they don't fucking slide
into my dms, you know what I mean. It's like
they're always sliding into my dms with recipes or something.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Well, the most attention I get is, oh, you're that
actor or you're right, you know whatever. It's fine. It
used to mess with my head a little bit, but
historically even that's just sort of been been the uh
the case. But yeah, it was a very hard decision
to make it. It was a long time coming, you know,
(40:59):
relationship morph and neither of us were our healthiest selves
inside that union, and it served as purpose. He was
my best friend and really gave me space to come
undone and covered me in ways that no other human
(41:22):
has before. And in fact he helped me so I
put him through school. He got his degree in psychology,
and he brought home this book one day called The
Highly Sensitive Person. I don't know if you ever heard
of it.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I think I've heard of that book.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, And we read some of it, and it brought
in the focus a lot of traits that I was
caring that at first glance can give the appearance of
being flippant, if not self centered, but ultimately it's just
a cavalcade of just overwhelmed by stili and such. And
so I would retreat in a way and not give
(41:59):
of myself because again, always tired, blah blah blah, blah,
bah blah. So he illuminated a lot about my personality,
which ultimately sort of gave way to us sort of realizing, well,
this is turned into something else. And Pablo would have
stayed with me had I not released him first. I
(42:20):
actually prayed that Pablo would fall in love with someone else.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
He was significantly younger than I was. And there's a
great little growth that Pablo had to do. And I
had to rip the band aid off and go and
get myself together, and I had to do it without him,
and I knew that.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
And you had to make the decision to do that. Yes,
do you want to have kids? Eventually? You think?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No? No, No, here's where does not trust God? Where
don't trust? I don't trust that. Collectively we are as
concerned as we need to be about taking care of
one another. And so for those reasons, I refuse to
bring anyone else into this world. I panic for you.
(43:05):
I pan it for me too.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Exactly are you kidding? And by the way, I don't
know why, Like I think, I think, oh God, I'm
way too self centered to be a good caregiver for
a kid, you know, And yet you cannot believe what
a good parent I am to my dogs, you know
what I mean. But for some reason. Oh no, darling, darling, please,
are you kidding? And I don't see it being any
different at all. I'm so glad you're laughing. Like one
(43:29):
of the things I always say is children are the
dogs of straight people. Right, Oh, I'm sorry, it's the true.
I'm serious. It's if they only knew. But no. But
but the point is, and it's it's really not because
I'm gay, because I'm straight. Really, that's not the thing.
It's just about like I feel like I'm sparing that
poor kid, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah, well. Also, I think there's a glorious aria that
Rene Fleming sings in a street our name Desire, which
was written by Andre Previn. It's called I Want Magic.
It is through composed and the text is real. Who
wants real? I know I don't want it. I want magic.
(44:11):
That's what I try to give to people, and that
is what you and I both do. We try and
curate the world of possibility, and I think that that
takes a great deal of shepherding, if not parenting, and
it is all consuming in such a way. I don't
think there's a need for us to populate the earth
(44:32):
with our offspring. We do it in other ways, and
it is no less daunting than if what we try
and offer we're in the form of a person in
terms of.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Parenting, and no less valuable because a lot of times
people like will look and say, oh, well, you just
wouldn't know because you're not a parent, and I look
at them and I think, well, yeah, you're just not
particularly talented, so you wouldn't know either.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
It's like I could say the same thing, how are
you fixed for the holidays? Are you gonna have a
fun time in the show? Is that gonna help. Is
that gonna be daunting? What's gonna happen?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
It'll contracted through to the next year.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You can track it through, Okay. Number seventeen. My best
friend and I are going to go to a spaw
on Thanksgiving and we're gonna come here and watch TV.
And I think because of them in the show, and
because every day it is being surrounded by literally thousands
of people, I think it's a day to be quiet,
(45:31):
and I'm gonna just be quiet, and That's how I'll
spend these holidays.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
So, Darling, I am kind of obsessed with obituaries. I
think about them a lot constantly. You have something you
want your obituary to say. You want to be remembered
for something exhausting. I know you're exhaustedility, but.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Uh, you know how I want to be remembered or
how I want people to remember me.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I don't know, because I really am obsessed with the
thought of posterity. Like when I think I'm gonna die,
I want something somewhere to show the people they're never
going to know that my favorite thing in the world
is my dogs and spaghetti. As you know, whatever it is,
They're never going to know that. That's the history of
private lies, that's the history of my private life. I
try to illuminate that in my memoir. But they will
(46:35):
know something about Titus Burgess. What would you like them
to know that?
Speaker 1 (46:40):
I have a heart full of love and I really
try to love the best that I could art it
already it lives on beyond us, even now you know
your show, I can find a clip on YouTube that's
always gonna be there. We don't need help framing how
(47:02):
great we were, the thing we did. It's the stuff
that people don't know about us, right, It is what
you know I want illuminated. But also how people remember
me is not my business. I can't care, and that
is something I'm getting better at, not caring how you're
the villain in somebody's story, you know what I mean?
(47:25):
And I just think I just want people know that
I tried to love the best that I knew how
to the best amount.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
You know what, darling, Can I tell you something about
my obituary? I think all I give a shit about
is if they pick a gorgeous picture, if they pick
a good picture where I look thin, then that'll be fine.
I swear to God like a young cute picture.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I'm not kidding.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
It just dawned on me while you were saying that
I want to look cute. You know. I swear to
God because I remember when I went out of business
in nineteen ninety eight, I closed my coturier. Right, it
was literally on the front page of the time. It
was like on the okay, albeit on the lower fold
of the thing, but there was a picture of me
and the headline was something like designer most likely too
(48:05):
doesn't And it was devastating. But the picture was cute.
I looked really thin, and I was like, hooray, I'm free,
you know, like shit exactly because I was so happy
that I was going on. I was so happy because
I always wanted to be in in the movies, in
theater and entertainment, and I was so happy that it
was going to be all this free time to do
all that, you know. So for me, it was all
(48:26):
about the picture, you know. So maybe it is about
the picture. Maybe it is just about the picture, all right. Well,
we also ask our subjects to talk about what they
want to promote on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Isaac, I mean comes rouge, but well, can I.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Tell you what I want you to promote. I want
you to promote this show you're working on. Tell me
something about the damn Thing.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
So I bought the rights to The Preacher's Wife that
starred Dinzel Washington and.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
My favorite movie in the world.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
It's such a one.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Oh my god, it's such a good movie. And by
the way, there was a movie called The Bishops Wife.
Do you know that movie? Okay, because that's also really good.
A lot of original sorties, I think, so.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah. And so I turned into a musical. I wrote
the score, and Azy Dungeee wrote the book, and I've
been working on it for thirteen years. I've only had
the rights for eight. I don't recommend starting writing something
without the rights because it gets real hairy. But I
just knew that this story was supposed to be told
(49:27):
through me, and it is very special. And I feel
confident that the world is ready to receive a new thing.
And I say that humbly, but it does things that
I didn't even think it was gonna.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
So you wrote the music for the Damn Thing? Yes,
you you wrote music, Darling. This is amazing. This is
a gift. That's one thing I cannot do. I can
do so many things, but I cannot write music. That
is amazing. I did you write the words and music
or just the music?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
And I tell you that is the longest term relationship
I've ever been in writing that show, and it has
shown me the greatest reciprocity. And I only hope that
audiences receive as much joy watching it as I did
writing it, because it just it has shaped me, It
(50:22):
has raised me. It has taught me so much about
the business, and it has taught me so much about
this community people inside the story, and I've just I've
learned so much trying to get this thing on stage.
We have our world premiere at the Alliance Theater in Atlanta,
Georgia this coming spring, so you can go to the
Alliance Theater and it's got some wonderful stars that will
(50:46):
be announced shortly that everyone knows and loves. One of
them was actually in the movie. So yeah. So it's
just it's really gotta be awesome. And I cannot wait
to just let it do what it does and wait
for all the other lessons that it's about to teach me,
because it's sure is going to do that.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
I am coming to Opening Night, Seriously, I am coming
to open up. It's not starring in it. When you
for Broadway, I know, I can't wait. By the way,
who knew that Andre Previn wrote an opera of street
Car named Desire. That's shocking. I didn't know that. I
love Andre Previn. He sort of knew Dorri Previn. Do
you ever meet her? I knew her for like one second.
(51:29):
I dated a guy who knew Dori Preven and I
met her like in wherever they all live up there
by Jacob's pillows. So anyway, that's where they live.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, he writes the most glorious.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Oh and there's a plant, my own tree. That's my
opening number.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
It might it might be.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
You know, I see all the songs from Valley of
the Dolls. Ah, well, you're a doll. I love you.
I think I hate being finished. Why don't we have
dinner as something? Eventually? I'll meet you at the that
that everybody goes to f to theater, Cathay Central, glamorous.
(52:05):
That would be if we walked in together to Cathy Central,
the queens would kill themselves. The girls would just eat it. Okay,
all right, I love it, I love it, I love it,
all right? This is you're so well, this was so good.
I love you, I love you. That was an amazing
(52:26):
experience for me, not just because of the information that
Titus imparted, but more because I could feel there was
this crazy chemistry between us, like a crackly kind of
I don't know if you can feel that sort of
thing through the ethernet, but whatever it was, Darling, I
(52:47):
felt his incredible kind of friendly and loving energy from
across the burrows at least, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
And I have to.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Say that I wasn't expecting the vulnerability that came about
in that talk. You know, maybe because of the way
he appears on stage and the way he appears in
movies and TV. He's always so incredibly prepared and so
kind of confident and casual, you know, so I never
get the feeling that he is this vulnerable kind of person.
(53:21):
But today I felt a lot of that vulnerability, and
I was very, very very pleased. And I feel like
I made a friend today. Darlings, if you enjoyed this episode,
do me a favorite and tell someone, Tell a friend,
tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell everyone you know. Okay,
(53:43):
and be sure to rate the show. I love rating stuff.
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kinds, follow
(54:04):
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
and by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at I Am Isaac Msrahi. This is Isaac Misrahi,
Thank you, I love you, and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
(54:28):
Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
The series is hosted by Me Isaac Msrahi. Hello Isaac
is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
Burton and John Assanti, and is executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Caral Welker, and Nathan Kloke at Imagined Audio,
(54:51):
production management from Katie Hodges, sound design and mixing by
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Wilson. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah Katanac at I M Entertainment.
If you really want to get to it. You know,
my body. I have such a strange relationship with it
because I always see little fat Titus, a little unworthy
fat Titus, and I have to talk to him often
and remind him that all of those things that we
learned are not true. It doesn't always work, but I'm
(00:21):
a little obsessed with trying to look my best forever,
running away from whatever I thought my worst was. And
I don't like that that is my motivation, but it is,
and that is the truth.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
This is Hello Isaac. My podcasts about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Musraian. In
this episode, I talk to Emmy nominated actor and Broadway
star Titus Burgess.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hello, Isaac, it's tight as Burgess. Wait did you give
me the right number? It's just the right number. Well,
I hope it is, call me back. Can't wait to.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Titus Burgess has always been one of my favorite performers,
and I always love watching him. I think he's just
so fascinating as not just a performer, but also as
a personality. And I've always wanted to meet him, and
I've always wanted to talk to him. And today I'm
excited to hear about not just who he is as
(01:23):
an artist, but also I'm going to try to find
out who he is as a person. So let's get started.
Titus Burgess. Hi, Hi. First of all, look how fresh
you look?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh? Thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I just loo oh really well, you look fresh?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And you know what I want to ask you, is
Titus Burgess your real name? Or is that is that
is your actual given name?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
My mom named me Titus Lamont Burgess Titus out of
the Bible. It's one of the smallest books in the Bible,
and Lamont after Sam Inside.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, come on, that's amazing. I love all that. It's
funny because I like talking to people of your age
because you're not quite as damn old as me. But
you're also not like the kind of I don't know,
the TikTok generation. Even though I know social media is
quite important to you. By the way, it actually okay,
(02:22):
And I don't everythink.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean, I scroll on Instagram just as much as
the next person, and I suppose my attention span is
probably just as small as the next person because everything
is in sound bites. Right. However, the need to be
incessantly seen via these platforms is not it's too it's
(02:44):
a full time job and I don't have that type
of energy. When I have something to say, then I
go on there and I say it, or if I'm
feeling particularly cheeky, then I'll, you know, do it. But
I don't sit and premeditate what I offer up. If
it comes up, it comes out somehow.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Like I find your Instagram posts incredibly engaging, and I
wish you had a podcast, like you're one person I
wish would have a podcast that I could listen to
because I think you're really fun to listen to and
pretty smart. Well, just that whole statement about social media
I find really really smart. Can we do a little
history lesson about you? Because reading and reading about it?
(03:27):
Where are you from? Originally?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I'm originally from Athens, Georgia, but my birth through about
eight years old was in Stephens, Georgia, which is about
twenty minutes outside of Athens. I grew up on a
farm my grandmother and my granddad. We raised hogs and
chickens and horses, and they had call it green fills
(03:50):
and corn fills and all that, and so I I
was up at the crack of dawn with my grandma
getting the eggs out of the barn.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So tell me where is this whole kind of show
business gene came from?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
You know? Isaac? That is uh a sidebar, just a
little small diatribe. I loved your TV show, thank you.
I did, and I was just talking about the other day.
I was like, you were so engaging and so the
antithesis of all things Hollywood, and you made everyone feel
(04:26):
so comfortable. Wow, that's a very That's a hard thing
to do when you're trying to do a TV show.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
But well, I mean everything's hard, you know, everything's really
really hard to do. I think, all right, enough of
this mutual admiration, darling back to you, where do you
think this show business gene comes from? If you're growing
up on a farm, how did you discover your calling?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
My mom sang, and my grandma other could sing, And
my earliest memories of being in front of people were
in the church, and I thought that everyone could sing,
and that everyone was a not a performer, but that
(05:15):
everyone could do what I was doing, until I realized
that that was not the case. And being on stage
feels the same as singing. A solo in Sunday School.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well, it's funny because I know that religion bears a
big kind of part in your life, and it still does,
does it not? Do you go to.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I very much got I belong to a church called
Middle Collegiate Church in the East Village, And I would
say I am culturally Christian, but I believe a lot
of things and many things can be true, and there
are many ways to the Wizard of Oz. So my
God is not the only way for you to find
inspiration and for your soul to be saved or you know,
(05:57):
I could care less night that. I just want people
to be happy. To the Church of Happiness, to the
Church of source energy, and whatever drudges up that feeling
for you, whatever it could be your dogs, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It is my dog.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
If you walk around feeling a sense of hope and love,
then you go to my church.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So just to be clear, like do you believe in God?
Or for you do believe God? Was I don't? And
the thing is like I grew up in a very
religious background too. It wasn't on a farm. It was
in a house in Brooklyn and a yeshiva, and it
was really scary and you know, just for one minute,
if you could kind of acknowledge, you know, what the
Bible says about artists, and what the Bible says about homosexuals,
(06:40):
and what the Bible says about unclean fibers. There's a
lot of stuff, So talk about that for just a minute.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So I want to be very frank. I don't really
care so much about what the Bible says. There's many
things in the Bible that just cancel me out right.
But thankfully, my connection with God lives outside of those
stories and those parables, and I think more people would
(07:10):
stand a chance to feel that connection where we not
so indoctrinated with Helfi and Brimstone and religion is scary
and it is weaponized, and it makes total sense why
they're atheists and people who don't believe. And I often wonder,
here's something else I have to believe in, something outside
(07:31):
of me, otherwise it gets too cerebral for me, and
I feel like I'm just out here floating. You know,
I don't know what's going to happen. You know, when
I close my eyes for the last time and take
my last breath, I think I believe that I'll you
know see my loved ones who've passed on. But probably
because I was taught that, I don't know that I,
(07:53):
in my heart actually feel that way. I don't know
what the fuck is going to happen? Yeah, beyond he
and now. But I had to believe that the here
and now serves a greater purpose than just the here
and now. There's too much happening in the world and
too much work that we have to do to try
(08:15):
and salvage what's left of this beautiful place that we
were handed for me not to believe.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So except what I'm kind of getting at, did you
have a happy childhood in church? Like? Was that a
particularly happy experience?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
View? No? No, no, you no, it wasn't. You know?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
How did you find your way to that? Do you
know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
If you don't want to talk about it, just say, like, let's.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I will to you about anything I hide. You know.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I am in the midst of such a sort of
a crisis of faith. You know, I believe in my
own kind of spirituality. I never really believed in God.
I'm so nihilistic. I'm so kind of outside or outside
or outside, And I wonder how a person like you
who grew up in the church, probably not the most
happy childhood. I mean, I read some stuff about you.
(09:06):
I'm just assuming from what I read and how you
actually have come to this incredibly beautiful place where you
are now with religion.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Let me see if I can walk us through it.
You know, my childhood has given way to some traumas
that have caused me to make some really unhealthy choices
in my adult life that I'm still trying to bring
into focus. But what keeps me connected to God is
(09:35):
that I am still here. I get to sing, I
get to make people happy. I feel the love of
spirit around me. I've talking to you. My vibration is
raising that energy exists before us and after us and
right now and long when we're gone. You know, for instance,
(09:58):
this is going to sound crazy. You know, we listen
to Judy Garland saying right, and we do to all
of those wonderful concerts or whatever. But the joy and
the sincerity and the way she was able to connect
so transcendently, that is God.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I agree with that energy.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Music is God. There's so many ways to the epicenter
of the zenith of what we are and our possibility
and what we are capable of, and we are inundated
with so many ugly versions of us that it is
easy to be unclear and not be able to sense
(10:38):
that sort of light and love and warmth. At all times.
I wrestle with it. I'm not always as close to
the spirit world as I am able to summon today.
Last week even it was pretty bleak, it got really dark,
But I always bounce back. My natural set point is,
(11:00):
is joy me too? Exactly? That's good, that.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Is it's true, it's something, it's really something. I agree
with you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Whatever you want. We can call it love, we can
call it light, we can call it spirituality. However you
break it down though the recipe, you know, the composition
of it is something greater than us, that lives both
outside of us and inside of us.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
And you feel it especially when what when you're singing,
when you're on stage. Do you feel it when you're
filming something for TV or.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
For the movie? Now?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Do you don't?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I do? I do. I'm very inspired. There's a crazy
kind of thing that I'm feeling from you right now.
I'm taking a lot of inspiration just looking at you.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, And so.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I feel this feeling, whether I am making you a
meal and cooking for you, or whether I am talking
to a stranger and having that uncanny, strange connection, or
when I am looking into my.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Dog's eyes like it's everywhere and always available to us.
It's just activation. And that is something that I'm learning
and relearning, learning and relearning, learning and relearning. And that
is why I had not left the church. That is
why I have not left seeking God. That is why
(12:30):
that curiosity has not escaped me, because I know that
it is always there.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, Wow, darling, that is very very powerful, I mean it.
And it's funny because you know, yesterday it was a
particularly lousy day and I just I had such a
terrible struggle yesay, just kind of overcoming my thoughts about
the future and my thoughts about the future of the world.
And ah, I mean there were a million terrible stories
(12:55):
in the news and a million terrible stories in my
own life. And funny, today, I feel so much better.
And it's because, like you said, we are able as
human beings to find some kind of something. I just
refer to it as inspiration. All right, So tell me something, darling.
Do you get stage fright?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Oh? Yes, oh yes, Mulin Rouge my return to Broadway.
This is a after fourteen years of being absent from
the stage. I don't know if lack of preparation gives
way to stage fright or if fear is just because
you care.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
No, it's not lack of preparation, Darling. We are extremely prepared.
We are very very prepared.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I care about the information people receive from me. I
care about even when I don't have the energy or
am able to even focus enough to deliver the right
kinds of things. But I care about it nonetheless, and
that makes me constantly panics, Drick the moment I hit
(14:01):
the stage, because the performance that I give, that is
the only church some people are going.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
To see, well experience, right exactly, But I have to
tell you me too. I mean I get terrible, debilitating
stage fright.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
And I was in a play last year. I was
in Chicago for two months and yeah, I was, Yeah,
and I know the show and I knew the stuff,
and they rehearse the shit out of me. And I
worked on it and I really did, and it didn't matter.
It wasn't about the preparation. It was about whether I
could force myself to be present the minute I walked
on stage, because how many times you go to the
(14:37):
theater and just hate what you're seeing, titis and so like,
I don't want to be the thing that people go like,
oh god, that show is so good until he came out,
you know.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Oh come on, no one's going to do that. Did
you enjoy it?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Oh my god, yes I did. I enjoyed it. And
it was a challenge just because every single night like
it did not abate the stage, fright, did not a bay.
It was better at sometimes and better at sometimes. And
then I did this whole brain fart thing where every
single time my music would come up, I got and
I couldn't remember the what. And it went on for
(15:13):
so many nights that the conductor came to my dress
room and he said, you know, do we have to
And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, it's not about drilling.
It's not about drilling. I've drilled the shit out of this.
I know every syllable of it.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's just about that moment where you go, can I
just be here right? It's just about being there in
that moment, you know, so existent I wonder I.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Think the great performers, uh in our in their hey day.
You know, I've read Imagined Judy Garlic, you know Elaine Stridge,
and she goes on and on about going up on
the opening night of Company and she couldn't remember the
lady wonderful story, it's so good. And Hal Prince comes
to her door and he says, you know, that was
(15:54):
the last night, Elaine, Yes, tonight is this night, and
just sort of retrains for me because I tend to
carry last night's performance into the next night, trying to
top what I've done. Of course that I but truly though,
the circumstances are different, and they serve us. They're there
(16:16):
to help us, the audience, the collective mindset of the audience.
They are the other character that we don't often consider,
and they inform us, you know, And there's so many
ways to snap us into focus. But what we don't
give full gravity to. I think, Isaac, is it's hard
being on earth right now.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It's really hard, really hard. Yes it is, Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And the way we consume information is so different than
ten years ago, twenty years ago. So it stands to
reason that the type of focus that we are trying
to summon and enact it is different than what it
was fourteen years ago when I was on Broadway. So
I taking myself a little more grace when we were
(17:02):
doing the thing and trying to, you know, make people
happy with with with our art. It takes a different
type of focus altogether today to do what we do.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I think so too, Darling. Is there someone who influenced
you as a performer?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
M Renee Fleming?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Really that is a big surprise to me.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my degree is in music. It's
not in theater.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The opera star Renee Fleming, the fabulous opera singer who's
so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
She's just she's an amazing actress.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
I've always thought, you know, when I was in school
studying classical music, I was like, this is to me
largely kind of boring, if not inaccessible, you know, and
opera it's slowly changing, but it's a bit of an
elitist sport for any reasons. People's socioeconomic backgrounds don't allow
(17:55):
for the ticket price, so you don't, you know, get
to consume it the way people who are wealthier perhaps
would and have exposed to blah blah blah. So there
are many reasons why I thought opera and classical music
was inaccessible until I encountered Renee Fleming.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Wow, that's she's gonna Does she know this?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
She is a pal she does, and I've had the
privilege of singing alongside her, which completely blew my mind.
But the thing that I appreciate most about what she
does doesn't matter what genre she is doing, because she
is able to waltz in and out of so many
different genres of music. But it is her ability to
(18:38):
cradle a story and be so honest about it. She's
never in front of the material. It's never Renee forward.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's always about It's about Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And that is what struck me long before her flawless
vocals did, and her ability to act through operas that
everyone's done before, but she always find something so new
to do with the material. I just am blown away
by our artistry.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Tell me something you don't come across as someone who
has confidence issues. Do you suffer from like imposter syndrome?
Do you wake up in the morning going like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're gonna find out today.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I don't have imposter syndrome when it comes to art.
I know that when I open my mouth. It's a
god thing. Again, something else takes over and so I
don't have to worry about being great. It's gonna happen
in spite of me. This is why I don't have
(19:47):
a podcast, is because I am more concerned with my
walk in life and wanting it to match up what
I taught. And sometimes I want to take great care
to not be a hypocrite because I really do care
about what people not think of me. But I want
(20:08):
to be transparent, so you know, that gives me more like, oh,
I'm not living up to my standards of being a
good human today as perhaps I could, where I had
to strive a little harder, or maybe had a bad
day or maybe you know, cut someone out. You know,
that kind of thing, kind of you know haunts me.
But imposter syndrome when it comes to are, Nah, it's
(20:32):
gonna be there. We're gonna do what it's gonna do.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
That's incredible. I mean there's a part of that that
resonated with me. You know, it's not about so much
imposter syndrome, but I think knowing that I was a
good performer, and knowing I was a good designer, and
knowing I was good at certain things that kind of
led me. Yeah, like that I could set myself up
to do all that stuff. I could make deals to
(20:56):
appear and I could make deals because I could get there,
and I know I can do that job. But I
have to tell you, like this morning, I thought, oh, yeah, yeah,
is tight as gonna find out that I don't know
what the hell I'm doing, that I'm an idiot or something.
You know, I swear to God almost always. I have
a lot of like dread and fear of being sort
of I don't know what exposed as a what might.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
We find out? Isaac, I'm seriously darling.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I don't you know, I don't that I'm by the way, okay,
here's the thing that I'm not as good as Renee Fleming,
you know what I mean. And by the way, I'm
not as good as like, you know, Whitney Houston. I'm
not as good as Liza Minelli.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
You would never be hired to hear this whole thing.
Me too.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We will never be No, of course not. But I mean,
don't you want to make sure that you are the
best Titus Burgess in the entire world and that you
are doing exactly right? And what you're supposed to be doing.
You don't ever see any kind of there's not a
challenge to that. There isn't a challenge never. I don't Wow,
(21:58):
this is amazing, and you know I feel that from you,
And that's part of what's so inspiring about you. Did
you ever fail in some way that you've felt that
you've felt really shaped you, that helped you move on?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
I can answer this question this way. There are moments
where I don't live up to my name. There are
moments where I fall short and I feel that crippling
embarrassment and I run away from that feeling, and that
feeling and not wanting to feel that feeling governs a
(22:31):
lot of my moves and how I edit art as
I go along. But I feel a lack of confidence,
just like as a man, as a single man, as
a black man, and as I dare to be a
better human. That's kind of where I'm like, Oh, they're
(22:53):
gonna find out that I too don't know what the
fuck I'm doing. But it's not art, it's my walk
in life.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
No, it's true. That's true. That's one funny thing that
you said, because that I've always known as an artist
don't fuck with me, fellas. Yeah, like, don't fuck with
me fellas. Do you see a shrink?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Hell?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yah?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Oh thank god, oh god. Okay, well that's a good answer.
I'm not going to ask you to the question. But
you know, I found out from kind of devouring your
Instagram page a little bit over the past day or
two that you have a few sleep issues, which, Darling,
we share this in common. What sign are you? What? PERI?
I sees, Oh, my god, the wateriest the water, the
(23:35):
end of the end of the world, Darling, the end
of the end of the world.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Like crippling emotions. Like just the other night in Saturday,
we had two shows. I didn't sleep well Friday, and
obviously your emotions like are all over the place, and
I already don't need help with my emotions being all
over the place. I went over to my friend's house
and I sobbed. I just I felt like it's like
I can't do the sh I was sitting ordering sushi
(24:02):
in between shows for dinner and I started crying like something,
you know, and I didn't know what it was or whatever,
but I'm just out of a ten year relationship. I
know that too, And so I'm still grieving that, and
I'm still you know, wrestling with a lot of stuff
that occurred in my childhood that is starting to boil
(24:27):
up to the surface or whatever. So at any moment,
it's anyone's guess which tightest you're gonna get. You know,
these emotions of mine, they sideswiped these shit out of me,
and it comes up when I'm about to walk on
stage or I mean, it's just it's it's really and
so sleep I think. So. I took a sleep study test,
(24:49):
which reminds.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Me of years ago.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Well did you pass? Do you have something?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
It wasn't about passing or failing, it was just, you know,
I went to one of those clinics for two nights
and they studied me while I was and they told
me about patterns and they went over my nutrition. It
helped not at all.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Oh, no, do you sleep with the machine that see
if I know?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Oh no, no, no, I don't have apnea. I just
have insomble. Oh because you have sleep apnea. Oh I see,
I see. Well at least we'll see.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I'll tell me. But I'm pretty sure I did because
I literally stopped breathing when yeah, it's really bad. It's bad,
and so I'm always tired and I don't know what.
I got a good night's sleep, uh Thursday night, and
so Friday show was particularly great. But the feeling that
(25:35):
I felt that wasn't cloudy. I was able to focus
and I was able to do my day. And I thought,
is this what people?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
No, no, no, Let me give you a little advice.
Darling is an old insomniac. Okay. One, It's so funny.
The performance thing never never, and you think it's going
to and you think you had a good show Friday
because you slept on Thursday. That's bullshit. A good show
Friday because you thought, oh, I can now have a
good show. You can have a good show whenever you
(26:04):
want to have a good show. Okay one.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Two.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I mean this too. As you get older, it gets
a little bit easier. You'll see that, like over the
course of like ten years, and then another ten years,
and by a certain point, like right now, I don't
really feel like an insomniac anymore. And I rarely take
sleeping pills anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Rarely sleep, Like how about sleep? You sleep?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Well? I mean, the problem right now with all the
world's problems and problems with people and all that. I'm
having a little bit more trouble sleeping, and I sleep
more erratically, like I sleep like not at all, and
then I sleep for like hours.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's a real pendulous thing. But you know, I got
my first dog and he helped a little bit. And
then I met my husband and that helped a little bit.
And then I got my second dog, and the second
dog really helped the sleeping thing. It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know, how long have you been married.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We've been married since twenty eleven. Oh wow, that's and
we know each other likes changed what when I spoke
about Yeah, you'll have to meet him eventually. He's so,
he's a wonderful person. But darling back to you, I'm sorry.
There's a kind of conditioning that I read about, Like,
(27:12):
you know, your childhood. First of all, I think you
were a fat kid. Is that?
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yes, so is I. That's another thing we have in common,
the sleep thing and the fat thing. Right and by
the way, right now, she's looking very skinny, honey. I
don't know what that's about. We're not supposed to celebrate
that or even care about that.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
No, a little bit. It doesnt matter. Well, I've been
nipped and tucked Isaac. But I also have had a
personal trainer for about a year and a half, which
I also thought would help my sleep. Nope, And so
that it's something else that you know, that whole imposter thing.
I don't know how to receive affection or if you
(27:53):
really want to get to it. You know, my body.
I have such a strange relationship with it because I
I always see little fat Titus, a little unworthy fat Titus,
and I have to talk to him often and remind
him that all of those things that we learned are
not true. It doesn't always work, but I'm a little
(28:15):
obsessed with trying to look my best forever, running away
from whatever I thought my worst was. And I don't
like that that is my motivation, but it is, and
that is the truth.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah. Well, speaking of these kind of feelings that you
grow up with and that you're conditioned, right, and I'm
telling you, you know, I was bullied the whole thing.
I'm sure you were too. And the thing I felt
the most sensitive about was not being a feminis, not
being queer, nothing. When they taunted me for being fat,
(28:48):
it really really really hurt and I'm not exactly sure
what that's about. I think it's because it was like
an issue for my mother too. You know, my mother
was really really like, ah, my god, she was completely
on my case about being fat, you know, and not
that she shouldn't be or she should be.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Did she know that what she was mister?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
No, no, no, no, it wasn't an intentionally cruel thing.
But I was going to ask you, like, these kind
of like setbacks that you've had in your life, are
these like moments where you're being kind of challenged? Do
you feel good about your past? Like would you change anything?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, you would.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
I mean I didn't need to be taunted and he
to learn some of the lessons I now. No, I
didn't need to be molested to you know, know some
of the things that I know. I didn't need to
grow up in a house full of depressed people and
be tasked with taking care of their emotional health to
(29:54):
be the Pisces sensitive soul that I have become what
I do some over, yeah, would it have made a difference,
I don't know, Isaac. I mean, you know, it all
shapes how you see the right now right, It all
shapes your incessant need to make sure that your didn't
design elements are christeing and perfect. You know, it's hard
(30:16):
to let me retrack that no, I would not change anything.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well only because I feel like, as we look now
at the way people are raised right, like they are
given such a wide berth. You know, when you think
about did you see that show called Jamie?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oh wait London, I was in love.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I can not see that you even.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Say, okay, well, because I left there thinking, well, you know,
his mother got him his first pair of platform shoes.
How much can I care about this character?
Speaker 1 (30:47):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
It's like seriously right, I mean, with the way people
are accepted today, I keep thinking if I were raised
that way, what would I be? Now? Don't you think
this little bit of grit, or all of the grit
that you have had to put up with, isn't that
what makes you this incredibly like? Don't you like love
that you're so sensitive pisces, et cetera. Doesn't that make
(31:10):
you an artist?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Do I love it? Like?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Aren't you an artist because of the adversaries? You know?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Very good? Yes, of course it avails me to a
level of empathy that my art definitely benefits from but
as a human, very recently, I've been able to to
not let it run me. But for a while, you know,
(31:35):
my emotions were running them up and sort of governing
all my choices until I got into therapy and you know,
started to unpack everything because everything was sort of lumped
under one umbrella. But you know, sure, the darkness that
I carry, the darkness that I inherited, does very much
(31:55):
play a part, but also so does the light a
great deal of the life. And you know, even more
so because when I'm able to be in it, when
I'm able to truly stand in it, there's no other
feeling like it. It is the closest I feel to God.
Is the closest I feel to what I believe God feels.
(32:17):
You know, if God has feelings, Fuck, I don't know,
but you know, so I hesitate to praise the darkness
and not illuminate the light.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
But you talk so openly about your past and about
what it was like for you as a kid and
being molested in all of that, and I feel like
that is a very, very very big help in this world.
There is something brave about that. You know, a lot
of people probably wouldn't talk about that too too much,
you know. So I feel like maybe giving you know,
(32:49):
air to that kind of darkness is one way to
transform it into lightness. You know.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Oh, I think it's the only way. I don't know
how to keep stuff to myself. I tend to try
and tell it before you can find it out. And
celebrity culture is we have so much sway in the world,
and people hang on our every word to an unhealthy degree.
I feel sometimes and I just think my desire, especially
(33:15):
if I'm going to be out in the world, being
so accessible and people you know, able to come up
and talk to me, YadA, YadA, if you're following me,
There's not so much that I want you to know
every detail in my life. But I just need you
to know I'm human, you know, and I need you
to be able to borrow from that. I need you
to be able to benefit more from me than just
(33:37):
what you know me. For I think that is my
call to action. That is my church where I am
the pastor, And that's a you know, a check you
can take to the bank in cash, darling.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So how important is your personal story in this your
preparation for kind of like going on stage tonight in
Mola Rouge, right, Like, you are tightest doing that role? Right,
You're not Jerry or Back. I don't know who the
hell would do that role. I'm trying to think of
like somebody who would do a great job with that role.
You know, it's like you're not whoever it is doing
(34:17):
that role. You are you doing that role? How much
does your own kind of personality bring to like first
of all, you're so funny. Do you write stuff? Do
you write jokes?
Speaker 1 (34:29):
No? Well, I do write, but not comedy.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
You never did stand up? You never did like stand okay,
right right, I'm just asking.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
No, no, no, I am an actor. Give me the
words and I'll exst. But it's interesting you bring that
up though, because I was just taking with my publicist
today telling which talk shows to not ever put me
on ever again. Some formats need sound bites, and you
know it's it's more for improv people than you know
(34:58):
straight up in I can talk like this, I know
how to do this. I'm not a comedian and I
don't understand it and I don't have that type of mind.
But how important is my story in my performance?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Is?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
You know Mulan Rouge is not particularly you know, close
to my story, but there are elements of that character
that resonate with me. For instance, you know, he's tasked
with being the showman, the ring master, but he's in
charge of a fledgling company that's about to go under,
and you know, I understand the sad clown of it all.
(35:37):
And that was my way into playing this character and
bringing all of the hurt and darkness and the responsibility
to smile and nod when you don't feel like it,
and it adds a certain sinister quality to it, I find,
and it's it's working for the character. But I try
and bring all of me into whatever I'm doing, even
(35:58):
when I don't feel like it, because you can't fake
how you.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Feel, you know, right, So like how do you prepare
to go on stage? Like when do you eat? For instance,
before it's a real slot, it's a slag, right, It's.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
So like I mean, I'm just now sort of reintegrating
the discipline that it takes to do a broalys show
back into my life and really like making sure that
I eat because I'm also type to you diabetic and
so it just go sure, Harry, you know, and like
every moments I'm like, am I going to pass out?
What did I eat today? So you know, I don't.
I don't have a regimen, per se or a routine.
(36:35):
I try and sleep as much as possible, which, as
you know, is hard for me. But that show takes
all of my energy, all of it. So I don't
pack my days with a lot and I'm trying, you know,
stay quiet because of course, at the moment you wake up,
your it's your day is in service.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
To that one show. And do you review the material?
Do you learn up?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Oh? Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Okay, you are my brain.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I absolutely want to. Yeah, yeah, but I will know
right away from the first inhalation I take when I
open my eyes what I have to do to get
my voice, performance writing. And sometimes I wake up and
it's just there and there's not a great deal to do.
But I think that's just sort of my school training
and such.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
And like what I kind of insist is that like,
no matter what, no matter how, every single moment on
stage is planned and you have to be somewhere to
catch a light and you have to say something. So
the trombone knows that that's this, you know, right, It
always has to be somewhat different. I like really think
(37:41):
that that's true, you know, I how do you do that?
How do you make it different every single night?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
So personally, I don't think that I'm am actively trying
to make it different. It just is justiss the very
nature of live theater. There's a nownesst to it that
has never been and never will be, even if it's
the same text, you know, and our show is the
construct of it is it's such that there's never the
(38:10):
same people in it every night because it's always a swing.
It's always a swing. Someone's on, life happens, you know, whatever.
So those type type things also contribute to it's fresh,
because it literally is fresh. You know, as long as
you're there and showing up, you have no other choice
about to respond in a right now sort of way.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
But here's the thing. If you're really listening to someone
on stage, or if you're really listening to yourself and
like saying things that you've never said before, right, you
might just get caught. I mean that's what happens to me.
I get like, oh wait, oh right, wait, sorry, there's
another thing I'm supposed to do now, right, Oh okay,
So you have to kind of pull yourself. It's kind
(38:51):
of like a medium, isn't it. It's like because if
you went totally into that thing, you would disappear, and
you show.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah yeah, no, only an awareness that creeps in that
you were up on stage doing a performance that can
both serve you and fuck you up, you know. So
there's a healthy balance of that. But I try, I
try to listen as much as possible because that is
(39:18):
the only thing that kind of keeps you on, keeps
your toes on that stage. Otherwise you drift off when
you start making your gross reliss while you're a.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Lot right well, that you can't do I mean that
you can't do. You can't do that. So wait, so
earlier you were talking about, you know, feeling a little
off center because you recently broke up with your husband
of twenty nine years. You're just your ten years I
been married.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
I never wanted to get married, but now I do.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Now you do? You see, don't I don't blame you?
Can I talk to you for a minute. When did
you break up with your significant other? When did that happen?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Let's see that happened almost it'll be two years this
coming December. Wow, the initial conversation, and it has taken
me as much time to uh retrieve my energy from
that partnership.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Well wait a minute, can I pimp for you? By
the way, if I know some people to introduce you to, Like, seriously.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Guys, talk to me, Isaac. I don't know what it is.
And what's that about.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
You're so cute, you're so amazing, you're so sexy. Wait
a second, and by the way, they don't fucking slide
into my dms, you know what I mean. It's like
they're always sliding into my dms with recipes or something.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Well, the most attention I get is, oh, you're that
actor or you're right, you know whatever. It's fine. It
used to mess with my head a little bit, but
historically even that's just sort of been been the uh
the case. But yeah, it was a very hard decision
to make it. It was a long time coming, you know,
(40:59):
relationship morph and neither of us were our healthiest selves
inside that union, and it served as purpose. He was
my best friend and really gave me space to come
undone and covered me in ways that no other human
(41:22):
has before. And in fact he helped me so I
put him through school. He got his degree in psychology,
and he brought home this book one day called The
Highly Sensitive Person. I don't know if you ever heard
of it.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I think I've heard of that book.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, And we read some of it, and it brought
in the focus a lot of traits that I was
caring that at first glance can give the appearance of
being flippant, if not self centered, but ultimately it's just
a cavalcade of just overwhelmed by stili and such. And
so I would retreat in a way and not give
(41:59):
of myself because again, always tired, blah blah blah, blah,
bah blah. So he illuminated a lot about my personality,
which ultimately sort of gave way to us sort of realizing, well,
this is turned into something else. And Pablo would have
stayed with me had I not released him first. I
(42:20):
actually prayed that Pablo would fall in love with someone else.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
He was significantly younger than I was. And there's a
great little growth that Pablo had to do. And I
had to rip the band aid off and go and
get myself together, and I had to do it without him,
and I knew that.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
And you had to make the decision to do that. Yes,
do you want to have kids? Eventually? You think?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No? No, No, here's where does not trust God? Where
don't trust? I don't trust that. Collectively we are as
concerned as we need to be about taking care of
one another. And so for those reasons, I refuse to
bring anyone else into this world. I panic for you.
(43:05):
I pan it for me too.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Exactly are you kidding? And by the way, I don't
know why, Like I think, I think, oh God, I'm
way too self centered to be a good caregiver for
a kid, you know, And yet you cannot believe what
a good parent I am to my dogs, you know
what I mean. But for some reason. Oh no, darling, darling, please,
are you kidding? And I don't see it being any
different at all. I'm so glad you're laughing. Like one
(43:29):
of the things I always say is children are the
dogs of straight people. Right, Oh, I'm sorry, it's the true.
I'm serious. It's if they only knew. But no. But
but the point is, and it's it's really not because
I'm gay, because I'm straight. Really, that's not the thing.
It's just about like I feel like I'm sparing that
poor kid, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah, well. Also, I think there's a glorious aria that
Rene Fleming sings in a street our name Desire, which
was written by Andre Previn. It's called I Want Magic.
It is through composed and the text is real. Who
wants real? I know I don't want it. I want magic.
(44:11):
That's what I try to give to people, and that
is what you and I both do. We try and
curate the world of possibility, and I think that that
takes a great deal of shepherding, if not parenting, and
it is all consuming in such a way. I don't
think there's a need for us to populate the earth
(44:32):
with our offspring. We do it in other ways, and
it is no less daunting than if what we try
and offer we're in the form of a person in
terms of.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Parenting, and no less valuable because a lot of times
people like will look and say, oh, well, you just
wouldn't know because you're not a parent, and I look
at them and I think, well, yeah, you're just not
particularly talented, so you wouldn't know either.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
It's like I could say the same thing, how are
you fixed for the holidays? Are you gonna have a
fun time in the show? Is that gonna help. Is
that gonna be daunting? What's gonna happen?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
It'll contracted through to the next year.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You can track it through, Okay. Number seventeen. My best
friend and I are going to go to a spaw
on Thanksgiving and we're gonna come here and watch TV.
And I think because of them in the show, and
because every day it is being surrounded by literally thousands
of people, I think it's a day to be quiet,
(45:31):
and I'm gonna just be quiet, and That's how I'll
spend these holidays.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
So, Darling, I am kind of obsessed with obituaries. I
think about them a lot constantly. You have something you
want your obituary to say. You want to be remembered
for something exhausting. I know you're exhaustedility, but.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
Uh, you know how I want to be remembered or
how I want people to remember me.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
I don't know, because I really am obsessed with the
thought of posterity. Like when I think I'm gonna die,
I want something somewhere to show the people they're never
going to know that my favorite thing in the world
is my dogs and spaghetti. As you know, whatever it is,
They're never going to know that. That's the history of
private lies, that's the history of my private life. I
try to illuminate that in my memoir. But they will
(46:35):
know something about Titus Burgess. What would you like them
to know that?
Speaker 1 (46:40):
I have a heart full of love and I really
try to love the best that I could art it
already it lives on beyond us, even now you know
your show, I can find a clip on YouTube that's
always gonna be there. We don't need help framing how
(47:02):
great we were, the thing we did. It's the stuff
that people don't know about us, right, It is what
you know I want illuminated. But also how people remember
me is not my business. I can't care, and that
is something I'm getting better at, not caring how you're
the villain in somebody's story, you know what I mean?
(47:25):
And I just think I just want people know that
I tried to love the best that I knew how
to the best amount.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
You know what, darling, Can I tell you something about
my obituary? I think all I give a shit about
is if they pick a gorgeous picture, if they pick
a good picture where I look thin, then that'll be fine.
I swear to God like a young cute picture.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I'm not kidding.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
It just dawned on me while you were saying that
I want to look cute. You know. I swear to
God because I remember when I went out of business
in nineteen ninety eight, I closed my coturier. Right, it
was literally on the front page of the time. It
was like on the okay, albeit on the lower fold
of the thing, but there was a picture of me
and the headline was something like designer most likely too
(48:05):
doesn't And it was devastating. But the picture was cute.
I looked really thin, and I was like, hooray, I'm free,
you know, like shit exactly because I was so happy
that I was going on. I was so happy because
I always wanted to be in in the movies, in
theater and entertainment, and I was so happy that it
was going to be all this free time to do
all that, you know. So for me, it was all
(48:26):
about the picture, you know. So maybe it is about
the picture. Maybe it is just about the picture, all right. Well,
we also ask our subjects to talk about what they
want to promote on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Isaac, I mean comes rouge, but well, can I.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Tell you what I want you to promote. I want
you to promote this show you're working on. Tell me
something about the damn Thing.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
So I bought the rights to The Preacher's Wife that
starred Dinzel Washington and.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
My favorite movie in the world.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
It's such a one.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Oh my god, it's such a good movie. And by
the way, there was a movie called The Bishops Wife.
Do you know that movie? Okay, because that's also really good.
A lot of original sorties, I think, so.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah. And so I turned into a musical. I wrote
the score, and Azy Dungeee wrote the book, and I've
been working on it for thirteen years. I've only had
the rights for eight. I don't recommend starting writing something
without the rights because it gets real hairy. But I
just knew that this story was supposed to be told
(49:27):
through me, and it is very special. And I feel
confident that the world is ready to receive a new thing.
And I say that humbly, but it does things that
I didn't even think it was gonna.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
So you wrote the music for the Damn Thing? Yes,
you you wrote music, Darling. This is amazing. This is
a gift. That's one thing I cannot do. I can
do so many things, but I cannot write music. That
is amazing. I did you write the words and music
or just the music?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
And I tell you that is the longest term relationship
I've ever been in writing that show, and it has
shown me the greatest reciprocity. And I only hope that
audiences receive as much joy watching it as I did
writing it, because it just it has shaped me, It
(50:22):
has raised me. It has taught me so much about
the business, and it has taught me so much about
this community people inside the story, and I've just I've
learned so much trying to get this thing on stage.
We have our world premiere at the Alliance Theater in Atlanta,
Georgia this coming spring, so you can go to the
Alliance Theater and it's got some wonderful stars that will
(50:46):
be announced shortly that everyone knows and loves. One of
them was actually in the movie. So yeah. So it's
just it's really gotta be awesome. And I cannot wait
to just let it do what it does and wait
for all the other lessons that it's about to teach me,
because it's sure is going to do that.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
I am coming to Opening Night, Seriously, I am coming
to open up. It's not starring in it. When you
for Broadway, I know, I can't wait. By the way,
who knew that Andre Previn wrote an opera of street
Car named Desire. That's shocking. I didn't know that. I
love Andre Previn. He sort of knew Dorri Previn. Do
you ever meet her? I knew her for like one second.
(51:29):
I dated a guy who knew Dori Preven and I
met her like in wherever they all live up there
by Jacob's pillows. So anyway, that's where they live.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, he writes the most glorious.
Speaker 2 (51:38):
Oh and there's a plant, my own tree. That's my
opening number.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
It might it might be.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
You know, I see all the songs from Valley of
the Dolls. Ah, well, you're a doll. I love you.
I think I hate being finished. Why don't we have
dinner as something? Eventually? I'll meet you at the that
that everybody goes to f to theater, Cathay Central, glamorous.
(52:05):
That would be if we walked in together to Cathy Central,
the queens would kill themselves. The girls would just eat it. Okay,
all right, I love it, I love it, I love it,
all right? This is you're so well, this was so good.
I love you, I love you. That was an amazing
(52:26):
experience for me, not just because of the information that
Titus imparted, but more because I could feel there was
this crazy chemistry between us, like a crackly kind of
I don't know if you can feel that sort of
thing through the ethernet, but whatever it was, Darling, I
(52:47):
felt his incredible kind of friendly and loving energy from
across the burrows at least, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
And I have to.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Say that I wasn't expecting the vulnerability that came about
in that talk. You know, maybe because of the way
he appears on stage and the way he appears in
movies and TV. He's always so incredibly prepared and so
kind of confident and casual, you know, so I never
get the feeling that he is this vulnerable kind of person.
(53:21):
But today I felt a lot of that vulnerability, and
I was very, very very pleased. And I feel like
I made a friend today. Darlings, if you enjoyed this episode,
do me a favorite and tell someone, Tell a friend,
tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell everyone you know. Okay,
(53:43):
and be sure to rate the show. I love rating stuff.
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kinds, follow
(54:04):
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
and by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at I Am Isaac Msrahi. This is Isaac Misrahi,
Thank you, I love you, and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
(54:28):
Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
The series is hosted by Me Isaac Msrahi. Hello Isaac
is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
Burton and John Assanti, and is executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Caral Welker, and Nathan Kloke at Imagined Audio,
(54:51):
production management from Katie Hodges, sound design and mixing by
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Wilson. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah Katanac at I M Entertainment.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.