June 21, 2021 • 11 mins
Did you know that when couples share the chores, their relationships get better? Psychiatrist Dr. Gail Saltz tell us why—and how to have the conversations that lead to a better division of tasks. Plus: Tips from Dawn and Swiffer on how to make chores easier and even enjoyable.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to this episode of Here's Something Good, a production
of the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.
Each day we aspire to bring you the good news,
the silver lining, the glass pathful because there is good
happening in the world everywhere, every day, we just need
to look for it and share it. Today's episode is
(00:26):
produced in partnership with P and G, the company that
makes Dawn and Swiffer. Here's Something Good for Today Now,
the pandemic has had an impact on just about every
area of our lives, including our relationships. One silver lining
is that all the time we've spent together at home
during the pandemic has actually brought many couples closer. Here's
(00:48):
one way to make those relationships even stronger. Close the
chore gap. The chore gap occurs when one family member
spends more time doing household chores than the others. Recent
research from Swift and Don shows that women spend on
average one hundred more hours each year on household chores
than men do. But when couples redistribute tasks, something wonderful happens.
(01:11):
Both men and women are happier and their relationships are stronger.
So why does chore sharing make us feel good and
how can we make that happen. To learn more about this,
we spoke with renowned psychiatrist Dr Gayl Saltz. Dr Saltz
the Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the New York
Presbyterian Hospital, a psychoanalyst, and a best selling author. She's
(01:33):
also host of the podcast how Can I Help with
Dr Gayl Saltz. Dr Saltz, thanks so much for joining us.
It's a pleasure to be with you. So why does
more equitable chore splitting have positive effects? You know, swift
Er and Don did some research and found that people
said that redistributing household chores made them feel closer to
(01:54):
their partner. Why do you think that is? Well, there
have been numerous studies over recent years looking at the
division of household labor and find that overall, really the
reason is has more to do with what a couple
believes about equity, and when they're on the same page
(02:14):
about equity, which usually is the page of some sort
of reasonable division of labor. It doesn't have to be
fifty fifty, but it does have to be that both
people feel that there should be a division, and they
are satisfied with the division they are having. Then that
creates a feeling of well, mutual respect, mutual caring about
(02:39):
how the other person is doing and faring and not
being overburdened, a feeling of fairness between them, and that
grows the intimacy. And so a lot of studies have
looked at this and and and found that emotionally they
feel more together, more as a team, more intimate with
(03:01):
each other, and that translates into happier marriage, was less conflict,
and better sex life too. Well, that's interesting because you know,
we often think about the physical load and the work
that goes into chores, but there's also this mental load.
There's this burden of the person who takes responsibility, the
one who's worrying to make sure that everything actually gets done.
(03:22):
Can you talk about the mental load that's part of
the chore gap? Absolutely? Well. First of all, you're right,
even though we have more equity, um, still women do
as much as three times the amount of house work
or house care administration as men. And administration is kind
of what you're talking about when you talk about the
(03:43):
emotional burden. So you know, who's who's arranging the play dates,
who's making sure things at school are going okay, who
does the teacher call? Um? Who uh is? And even
when it comes to just the chores, like you know,
doing the dish is, And I bring that up because
that is that is generally the hallmark least favorite chore
(04:06):
of everybody. Um, who is making sure that it gets
done and gets done in a satisfactory and satisfactory could
mean timely, um, it could mean well done or finished.
Way it does tend to be the woman predominantly, and
so that way is as a burden, like do I
(04:28):
say something? Do I remind again? Am I? Nagging? Is everything?
In order? Do I feel that it is a job
well done and I've therefore taken care of my family?
That is the emotional burden. And you know, when you
step back couples, both men and women tend not to
(04:48):
think of administration as being a chore, so it doesn't
end up getting put into the mix, and so it
just sort of is there and who does it? It
is typically women and women do end up feeling so
when both the mental and physical aspects of chores are shared,
everyone feels better. Women are happier, of course, but interestingly
men are too, As you sort of alluded to earlier
(05:10):
and in that survey I mentioned from Swiffer and Dawn
of men who were sharing chores said they felt happier,
said they felt more respected, and sixty eight percent said
their family is now stronger. Why do you think men
come out of this with such positive feelings? You know,
when you have a happier, more conflict free marriage going on,
(05:34):
both partners benefit and actually in past studies, the person
who benefits the most is usually the men. Um. They
benefit emotionally from from conflict free and that translates into
physical health. Men tend to have longer lives who have
more conflict free, happy marriages. You know, it is not
having fights about it, and it is not feeling that
(05:58):
she is chronically and great with you, which is what
goes on when there is this tremendous in equity, and
it is feeling that you are making her happy and
yourself happy, that you're taking care of your family. It
is feeling respected, It is feeling appreciated and um and
(06:18):
and mostly it is feeling that you're having a good marriage. Well,
also there's probably that feeling that you've kind of you're contributing.
We all get that satisfaction that we did what we
were supposed to do and that we fulfilled our responsibilities.
That you can have self respect exactly that you respect
your partner, but also you respect yourself because you're you're
(06:39):
not you know, lying on the couch while she's running
around doing things. So that leads to I guess my
final question, which is what's the best way to have
the conversation that can lead to a better distribution of chores?
Are there any ground rules that you recommend? So I
think it's very valuable to have conversations. The conversations could
(07:01):
be you know, at the at the get go of
sort of like how are we going to do this?
How do we equity wise see dividing this? And it
could and and to have that conversation. What's really important
is not going in with you you do this or
you don't do this, which puts the partner on the defense.
But really, I I feel like, you know, I want
(07:24):
this to be fair. UM. I feel like there's certain
things you might prefer doing chore wise to me. UM,
I prefer these kinds of chores. You you know, what
do you prefer? Um? So it is it is talking
about how you feel, UM and how you you you
see things and how the other person might make you
(07:45):
feel um, and then it is listening, which can be
hard when people get you know, riled up that they're
not going to get what they want, and then it
is trying to come to some sort of compromise. Also
in this conversation is I think a need to own
up to social inequity, which is changing somewhat but still exists.
(08:05):
So you know, for example, if the teacher is always
calling the mom, then the mom blaming the dad that
he's never doing anything on that front isn't really fair, right,
So it is about uh considering in there are there
social inequities that make it challenging for you to have equity. Really,
(08:26):
what I'm talking about is how can you have conversations
about equity and compromise without being blaming, name calling, you know, angry,
um and guilt inducing. And really the goal ultimately right
is too is not um, who's going to mow the lawn?
But how are you both going to feel good about
(08:49):
whomos the lawn? That That's really what it comes down to.
Such great advice from Dr Saltz. So here's something good
for today. We can feel happier and become closer in
our relationships when we divide the chores. Here's why, as
Dr Saltz tells us, when chores are split fairly, there's
less fighting, less anger, there's a feeling of mutual respect,
(09:12):
and more intimacy between partners. And here's a tip on
how to have the conversation that will lead to a
better balance with your partner. First, avoid saying, quote, you
don't do this or you don't do that. Instead say
I want this to be fair. Here the chores I'd
prefer doing. Are there certain things you'd prefer doing? Then
really listen to your partner and work towards a compromise.
(09:34):
And you can reinforce your new chore sharing arrangement by
creating new routines, ones that create we time while making
chores lighter and even fun. At dinner time, for instance,
one partner can do the cooking while the other uses
the cleanest you go method and Dawn power washed dishbray
makes that easy. A simple spray, wipe and rinse, and
all your pots and pants will be clean before dinners
(09:56):
on the table. Here's another tip. Nobody has time to
devote a full day to house cluning. These days, but
it is easy to take advantage of brief moments during
the day. For example, to swiffer. Let's say you're on
a break between zoom calls. Just five minutes with your
swiffer can have your floors shining and your room dust free.
If closing the chore gap sounds like a good idea,
(10:16):
here's how you can do it for yourself and help others.
At the same time, p and has created a campaign
called Come Clean to Close the chore Gap. They're asking
people to commit to closing the chore gap by signing
up through their website, and when you do, PNG will
donate a cleaning product to help a family and need
close their own chore gap. So commit to closing the
(10:37):
chore gap and visit close the chore Gap dot com.
Thank you for listening, and please share Today's Something Good
with others in your life. This is Kim Azzarelli, co
(10:58):
author of Fast Forward and co founder of Seneca Women.
To learn more about Seneca Women, go to Seneca Women
dot com or download the Seneca Women app free in
the app store. Here's Something Good is a production of
the Seneca Women podcast network and I Heart Radio. Have
a great day for more podcasts from I heart Radio.
(11:22):
Check out the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to this episode of Here's Something Good, a production
of the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.
Each day we aspire to bring you the good news,
the silver lining, the glass pathful because there is good
happening in the world everywhere, every day, we just need
to look for it and share it. Today's episode is
(00:26):
produced in partnership with P and G, the company that
makes Dawn and Swiffer. Here's Something Good for Today Now,
the pandemic has had an impact on just about every
area of our lives, including our relationships. One silver lining
is that all the time we've spent together at home
during the pandemic has actually brought many couples closer. Here's
(00:48):
one way to make those relationships even stronger. Close the
chore gap. The chore gap occurs when one family member
spends more time doing household chores than the others. Recent
research from Swift and Don shows that women spend on
average one hundred more hours each year on household chores
than men do. But when couples redistribute tasks, something wonderful happens.
(01:11):
Both men and women are happier and their relationships are stronger.
So why does chore sharing make us feel good and
how can we make that happen. To learn more about this,
we spoke with renowned psychiatrist Dr Gayl Saltz. Dr Saltz
the Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the New York
Presbyterian Hospital, a psychoanalyst, and a best selling author. She's
(01:33):
also host of the podcast how Can I Help with
Dr Gayl Saltz. Dr Saltz, thanks so much for joining us.
It's a pleasure to be with you. So why does
more equitable chore splitting have positive effects? You know, swift
Er and Don did some research and found that people
said that redistributing household chores made them feel closer to
(01:54):
their partner. Why do you think that is? Well, there
have been numerous studies over recent years looking at the
division of household labor and find that overall, really the
reason is has more to do with what a couple
believes about equity, and when they're on the same page
(02:14):
about equity, which usually is the page of some sort
of reasonable division of labor. It doesn't have to be
fifty fifty, but it does have to be that both
people feel that there should be a division, and they
are satisfied with the division they are having. Then that
creates a feeling of well, mutual respect, mutual caring about
(02:39):
how the other person is doing and faring and not
being overburdened, a feeling of fairness between them, and that
grows the intimacy. And so a lot of studies have
looked at this and and and found that emotionally they
feel more together, more as a team, more intimate with
(03:01):
each other, and that translates into happier marriage, was less conflict,
and better sex life too. Well, that's interesting because you know,
we often think about the physical load and the work
that goes into chores, but there's also this mental load.
There's this burden of the person who takes responsibility, the
one who's worrying to make sure that everything actually gets done.
(03:22):
Can you talk about the mental load that's part of
the chore gap? Absolutely? Well. First of all, you're right,
even though we have more equity, um, still women do
as much as three times the amount of house work
or house care administration as men. And administration is kind
of what you're talking about when you talk about the
(03:43):
emotional burden. So you know, who's who's arranging the play dates,
who's making sure things at school are going okay, who
does the teacher call? Um? Who uh is? And even
when it comes to just the chores, like you know,
doing the dish is, And I bring that up because
that is that is generally the hallmark least favorite chore
(04:06):
of everybody. Um, who is making sure that it gets
done and gets done in a satisfactory and satisfactory could
mean timely, um, it could mean well done or finished.
Way it does tend to be the woman predominantly, and
so that way is as a burden, like do I
(04:28):
say something? Do I remind again? Am I? Nagging? Is everything?
In order? Do I feel that it is a job
well done and I've therefore taken care of my family?
That is the emotional burden. And you know, when you
step back couples, both men and women tend not to
(04:48):
think of administration as being a chore, so it doesn't
end up getting put into the mix, and so it
just sort of is there and who does it? It
is typically women and women do end up feeling so
when both the mental and physical aspects of chores are shared,
everyone feels better. Women are happier, of course, but interestingly
men are too, As you sort of alluded to earlier
(05:10):
and in that survey I mentioned from Swiffer and Dawn
of men who were sharing chores said they felt happier,
said they felt more respected, and sixty eight percent said
their family is now stronger. Why do you think men
come out of this with such positive feelings? You know,
when you have a happier, more conflict free marriage going on,
(05:34):
both partners benefit and actually in past studies, the person
who benefits the most is usually the men. Um. They
benefit emotionally from from conflict free and that translates into
physical health. Men tend to have longer lives who have
more conflict free, happy marriages. You know, it is not
having fights about it, and it is not feeling that
(05:58):
she is chronically and great with you, which is what
goes on when there is this tremendous in equity, and
it is feeling that you are making her happy and
yourself happy, that you're taking care of your family. It
is feeling respected, It is feeling appreciated and um and
(06:18):
and mostly it is feeling that you're having a good marriage. Well,
also there's probably that feeling that you've kind of you're contributing.
We all get that satisfaction that we did what we
were supposed to do and that we fulfilled our responsibilities.
That you can have self respect exactly that you respect
your partner, but also you respect yourself because you're you're
(06:39):
not you know, lying on the couch while she's running
around doing things. So that leads to I guess my
final question, which is what's the best way to have
the conversation that can lead to a better distribution of chores?
Are there any ground rules that you recommend? So I
think it's very valuable to have conversations. The conversations could
(07:01):
be you know, at the at the get go of
sort of like how are we going to do this?
How do we equity wise see dividing this? And it
could and and to have that conversation. What's really important
is not going in with you you do this or
you don't do this, which puts the partner on the defense.
But really, I I feel like, you know, I want
(07:24):
this to be fair. UM. I feel like there's certain
things you might prefer doing chore wise to me. UM,
I prefer these kinds of chores. You you know, what
do you prefer? Um? So it is it is talking
about how you feel, UM and how you you you
see things and how the other person might make you
(07:45):
feel um, and then it is listening, which can be
hard when people get you know, riled up that they're
not going to get what they want, and then it
is trying to come to some sort of compromise. Also
in this conversation is I think a need to own
up to social inequity, which is changing somewhat but still exists.
(08:05):
So you know, for example, if the teacher is always
calling the mom, then the mom blaming the dad that
he's never doing anything on that front isn't really fair, right,
So it is about uh considering in there are there
social inequities that make it challenging for you to have equity. Really,
(08:26):
what I'm talking about is how can you have conversations
about equity and compromise without being blaming, name calling, you know, angry,
um and guilt inducing. And really the goal ultimately right
is too is not um, who's going to mow the lawn?
But how are you both going to feel good about
(08:49):
whomos the lawn? That That's really what it comes down to.
Such great advice from Dr Saltz. So here's something good
for today. We can feel happier and become closer in
our relationships when we divide the chores. Here's why, as
Dr Saltz tells us, when chores are split fairly, there's
less fighting, less anger, there's a feeling of mutual respect,
(09:12):
and more intimacy between partners. And here's a tip on
how to have the conversation that will lead to a
better balance with your partner. First, avoid saying, quote, you
don't do this or you don't do that. Instead say
I want this to be fair. Here the chores I'd
prefer doing. Are there certain things you'd prefer doing? Then
really listen to your partner and work towards a compromise.
(09:34):
And you can reinforce your new chore sharing arrangement by
creating new routines, ones that create we time while making
chores lighter and even fun. At dinner time, for instance,
one partner can do the cooking while the other uses
the cleanest you go method and Dawn power washed dishbray
makes that easy. A simple spray, wipe and rinse, and
all your pots and pants will be clean before dinners
(09:56):
on the table. Here's another tip. Nobody has time to
devote a full day to house cluning. These days, but
it is easy to take advantage of brief moments during
the day. For example, to swiffer. Let's say you're on
a break between zoom calls. Just five minutes with your
swiffer can have your floors shining and your room dust free.
If closing the chore gap sounds like a good idea,
(10:16):
here's how you can do it for yourself and help others.
At the same time, p and has created a campaign
called Come Clean to Close the chore Gap. They're asking
people to commit to closing the chore gap by signing
up through their website, and when you do, PNG will
donate a cleaning product to help a family and need
close their own chore gap. So commit to closing the
(10:37):
chore gap and visit close the chore Gap dot com.
Thank you for listening, and please share Today's Something Good
with others in your life. This is Kim Azzarelli, co
(10:58):
author of Fast Forward and co founder of Seneca Women.
To learn more about Seneca Women, go to Seneca Women
dot com or download the Seneca Women app free in
the app store. Here's Something Good is a production of
the Seneca Women podcast network and I Heart Radio. Have
a great day for more podcasts from I heart Radio.
(11:22):
Check out the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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