May 22, 2018 • 35 mins
Tony Zierra’s documentary Filmworker, opening May 11, highlights the best of movie-making. It sings an unsung hero, and through him, all the unsung heroes of Hollywood.
Actor Leon Vitali got his break playing the antagonist in Kubrick’s period masterpiece Barry Lyndon. For a few years afterwards his star was rising -- until suddenly his face disappeared from stage and screen. But his name didn't disappear from the credits of Kubrick's films; it merely moved down. From costar of Barry Lyndon to, in subsequent films, “Casting,” “costumes,” and “personal assistant to Mr. Kubrick." Vitali turned his life over fully to realizing the creative vision of his visionary boss. Zierra encountered him while making a documentary about Kubrick's last film, Eyes Wide Shut, and immediately pivoted to focus on him.
At the Hamptons Film Festival, Alec sat down with both men for a riveting discussion about the film; about the intense, mercurial Kubrick -- and about the sacrifices necessary to make great art.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing
in Hollywood. When someone shines a light on what happens
off screen. It's not always pretty, but director Tony Zeira's
documentary Film Worker reveals the best of movie making. It
tells the story of the unsung hero, the film worker,
(00:22):
whose name appears in the credits after most moviegoers have
already left the theater. The focus is Leon Vitali, who
at turned his back on a promising acting career to
serve as Stanley Kubrick's right hand man. Vitally, the working
class kid from outside Birmingham, England, trained as an actor
(00:46):
and got his break in Kubrick's period masterpiece Barry Linden.
Mr Ridman Barry. The last occasion on which we met,
you want to was me injury and dishonor in such
a manner and to such an extent as to which
(01:06):
no gentleman can willingly suffer without demanding satisfaction. However much
time intervenes, I have now come to claim that satisfaction.
But after that, Batali's name goes from the top of
(01:28):
the credits to the bottom. Casting costumes and personal assistant
to Mr Kubrick fatally turned his life over fully to
realizing the creative vision of his visionary boss. But for
actors of a certain age, his brilliant turn in Barry
Linden will always hold a special place in our hearts.
(01:48):
So that's where I started when I moderated a discussion
with Leon Battali and Film Worker director Tony Sierra at
the Hampton's International Film Festival. Every actor in the world
is obsessed with Barry Lyndon. We all would say lines
likely on the Tally, the snarkiest snark in the history
of cinema, Mr Ridman, by the indignation, the condemnation. You
(02:13):
know when he says to you in the dual scene,
have you had satisfaction? And your responsive what's the exact
word you say? I have not received obviously. I actually
know friends of mine who have used that with people
in bed. It's this great voluptuous performance in this movie
(02:36):
Leon the Tally uh, and he got He's gone. And
then as these films come out, you see his name
in the cuestions like what the hell is he doing?
And of course this film offers us an explanation to
that of like where where did Leon the tally Uh
detour into from his acting career. I would like to
welcome please the director of film. Please stand up, Tony Sierra,
(02:58):
thank you so much for coming, and please have a
warm welcome for Leon Vitality. Yeah, the dock that became
film Worker started out as something different. Zierira set out
to make the definitive account of Kubrick's thirteenth and final movie,
Eyes Wide Shot. The project was called SK thirteen. I'm
(03:21):
gonna sit here in the middle for Tony. I want
to ask what the genesis of the film was in
the idea of making Leon the protagonist. We finished filming
and Leon was the last person that I went to
film with um. And really the premise of SKA thirteen,
which we haven't started editing yet, was about really what
(03:41):
was going on with Stanley towards the end, because Eyes
Watch is a bit controversial a little bit, and I
wanted to see, like as a lot of people, well,
they said that he lost it towards the end. Some
people said that it was Tom and Nicole destroyed the film,
and some people said he really never finished editing, and
and people really surprised by casting and it just there
(04:02):
were a lot of unanswered. Um So I figured in
order to understand it, I needed to research Kubrick from
all the way from the beginning to today and see why,
why did he really want to make the film, because
obviously he owned the book for thirty years. And so
Leon was the last one because I knew he was
close to Warner Brothers, and I knew he was working
(04:23):
with the state, and I didn't want anybody to shut
me down. So I left Leon last. And then when
I met him at his house, I was, well, first
I had this image of him that I thought I
was just gonna get there and there's gonna be this
nice mansion and he's you know, and and he still
We're still in the UK in l a off Venice Boulevard,
and I just got there and it was just like
(04:44):
this amazing, lovely lovely and it just came out and
it's like carried all my equipment with me and we
just hit her off. And I was like, this is
like film history lives in that little house by himself.
And um So we decided to put the sk th
team footage away and tell his story because I think
he really needs to be acknowledged and honored because it's true,
(05:12):
so we um, you know. At first, it's like because
every time I would talk to someone I did a
lot of I mean six years on Ice and Stanley,
and the name always came up in different conversations of like,
if I was talking to someone about casting, they say
Leon Vitali. If I'll talk to someone about training actors,
it was Leon Vitali. If I go to the lab,
it's Leon Vitali. I mean, what actor that starts or
(05:35):
starts as an actor becomes the assistant And he color
corrected cha. So I was like, this is too good
to be true. It can't I mean the level of
of the jobs and the and the stuff that he did.
So I had to actually go back to so many
people who was again like is this really for real?
And I really found that I was. I knew this
(05:56):
much because he's really done a lot and he's humble
about Now. Cooper begins shooting eyes wide shot when he
died in nine. I think this is the autumn seven
we actually started shooting shooting, I think, yeah, yeah. And
the shooting goes on for how long, well year and
(06:17):
a half year and half yeah, yeah. And there were
there were a couple of breaks in there, but not long.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't do not stop for
a year half, you know, you can't. But but but
the uh And then he dies in March of ninety nine.
So he completed principal photography before he died. Oh yeah.
And he completed his final cart I mean, and he
(06:39):
sent it to New York for Tom and Nicole and
Terry Samuel, who was ahead of Warner Brothers in time,
and just said, this is it. I mean, all that
is left. He'd chosen the music, so all that was
left there was to re record that and fit it
in um and basically you know, just do the you know,
the sort of fine modeling job on it and all
(07:02):
the what can you say, There's so much to do
in post production, especially when you get closer to finishing
a movie for release. Was this film particularly difficult from him? Well,
you know, you know, he was getting tired because towards
the end, of course, he didn't really spare himself. I mean,
(07:23):
we wouldn't get back to the house until very often
to three in the morning, you know, and there'd be
a kind of a normal call in the you know,
next morning would be you know, usual call times and
what have you? Um, she stan Ye. Actually we were
(07:43):
so looking forward to doing AI next. I was thought
of so exciting, thought of working the studio, you know,
and just slamming the door and focusing on just there
the shots and no distractions and and nothing. Um. And
I think with Eyes might chut, you know, he because
(08:04):
working indoors is a totally different environment, as you know,
I mean, it's there are no distractions, You're focusing on
exactly what needs to be done, and there's no doubt
about it. He preferred shooting indoors. Any difficulty about about
Eyes by chill he had, I think was really more
story and trying to sort of work it in a
(08:28):
way that it would mean something to people now. But
pre production took a year, and it often took that
along with him. One of the interesting things about Kubrick
for me, because he made films so rarely that when
you saw him he had aged quite a bit in
between films. Kubrick is round and kind of full bodied
(08:50):
and a thick mane of brown hair. Then you cut
the five and six and seven years later at a
different Kubrick and then a different coupric and he and
it looks whether it. He looks hired, you know, he
looks older. Yeah, he wasn't a health none, is what
I'm saying, No doubt about that. Um, but I think
just this, uh what can I say? This ongoing it's
(09:13):
almost like a grind, but not in a negative way,
but everything it's like a hab Yeah, yeah, you know exactly. Yeah.
What's interesting in the film that I love about the
film is that this film reveals that there's things he
couldn't do or wouldn't do, and that's what fell to
you to do. You know, he he if there's ten
things you need a director, and a director who's producing
(09:35):
and so hands on it his own or her own films,
that individual is so hands on it, there's ten things
they're gonna do. He would do five or six of
them on the deepest level. Then the other four of
them he relied on someone else to do. And that
felt to you to take care of the little boy
and to to to and to and to do it
a myriad of jobs. Forget all the technical jobs. Forget
(09:57):
about you as a as his curator of his of
his film stock and so forth. In the documentary film Worker,
my Guest, Leon Vitali describes what a taskmaster, Director Stanley
Kubrick was if anything, you even went home, you said,
it is your responsibility to make sure they understand exactly
(10:19):
what you want. And I could take two, three, four, five,
six tries to get it right if I felt like
I wasn't getting any response or people were kind of
for one of the better phrases, digging me around, you know,
saying they're gonna send something you never get sent, and
you've got to chase him up, and chase him up.
(10:39):
He'd say, Okay, Leon, tonight you get on the phone
and you say to them, if they're talking like that
to you, they're talking like that to me. It really
felt like there was a kind of a loyalty there.
So sometimes did you did you when you came on
the first job with him, after you did Barry Lyndon?
You shot Barry Lyndon? Of what period? You shot that
(11:01):
up for nine years? I'm kidding, Um, you shot that
what years? Um? I was actually told i'd got the
role and I went down to Salisbury where they were
shooting in the January of god, what was it seventy
three something like that? Um, time time has no meaning
when you've worked with him, you know, um seventy three
(11:23):
and I was supposed to be there for um thirteen
days or eight weeks, and in the end I was
there until the end of July seventy three. So um.
After that, of course, there was an incredibly long cutting
period and what heavy um. And then he he rang
(11:43):
me because I'd actually done another film job. I think
we saw it. They went back to acting. I went,
I went to acting, and I thought I could use
what little clout I had to calm my way into
Did you say, yeah, so you would. We were in
the editor for Frankistan Yeah, yeah, yeah. What does he
(12:05):
make next? After after after a barrel, Linda? What does
he make? I should know? The Shining Shining? And he
sent me that book. He sent me a book. I
told him what I was doing that I love that.
So it was an actor you can make ten films.
What he's thinking of his next film? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
And he said he'll come with me make my next film.
He started. The Shining went like nineteen no, nineteen seventy seven.
(12:28):
I was sent out here to America to look for
Danny and then he called me. Towards the end of
that process, I mean it took seven months during she
not to find him, but to make sure there wasn't
anyone better than him, because I found him very early
in the process, funny enough. And so just towards the
(12:51):
end of that process, he said, well, while you're there,
go and take some interior photographs of hotels. And I
started doing that and that got you know, that wasn't
I thought it would just be going and take a
snap of a room, you know, but it wasn't. I mean,
we were talking about exposures and you've got to do this,
you got to do that night. But the only thing
(13:11):
I've never had was an instematic, you know. But it
was wonderful because he sort of stepped me through it
step by step, and he said, by the time life
series photography photography books, and so I did that and
so kind of reading those and learning and then he
was telling me and so towards the very end, just
(13:32):
before we came home, he rang me and uh, and
he said, what are you planning on doing after you
finished here? And I said I don't know. He said, okay,
then you're coming to London and that was it. I mean,
suddenly i I've got a job again. So there's some
people who are missing from the film in my mind,
(13:52):
or we don't appear in the film either Tom or
in the cold to talk about the eyes Watch experience,
or members of Kubrick's family, We did you approaching them
to do the film. Um, I'll be honest and UM
say that it's really hard. If you watched, I mean
you just saw the film. Um. Ryan O'Neil is there
because Leon was his co star le Ermie obviously always
(14:18):
pretty much everything he has for Leon and and he's
always working. Um. We go into the status issue and
a lot of people are not interested in filming with
you to talk about an assistant, and so obviously Ryan
would do it because they were co actors. UM. A
(14:38):
lot of people UM in Hollywood either it's either not
going to get the truth or they didn't know what
was going on on the set. And big stars are
like they're wrapped up in their own world. They're really
not aware of what's happening because they show up obviously
there's a lot of work to do. UM, so very
little they would really know what's going on with UM
(14:59):
the assistant who's running around and UM doing a billion things. Yeah. Yeah,
and families is the same thing, because, um, I don't
think they were going to sit with me again and say, well,
you know why, Yes, Stanley was really difficult and he
tortured ly on and I mean again, and you have
to be objective. It's I did approach some I wasn't
(15:22):
you know, some wan't say who. But some felt that,
like you know, they'll be undermining Stanley if they appear
they knew the truth. But they just not going to
sit in front of the camera and say, yes, this
man done all this stuff. So in the end, he
finished his eyes wide shot, he cuts eyewat eyes watching.
(15:42):
It's his final cut, and he dies soon after that.
And the controversy is about about what not the final
It was it about protecting the final cut, or was
about that I was going to be printed the film?
The technology of that were you stepped in and helped
to ensure what well, Fritzical we this um We were
(16:03):
in the midst of running tests with stocks, different stocks
of films for printing and what have you. Uh So
we resolved that impost. We talked about it, and we'd
favored we already sort of favoring one UM one kind
of film in particular, and we started sort of working
(16:24):
with and experimenting it. So I knew that was the
line we were going to be taking there and things
like all the rest of it, with the foot's and
the folio and the list and that, you know, all
those things. I followed the same pattern as we did
on full metal Jackets as close as we could, you know,
different films and what have you. But it was just
(16:47):
to follow a pattern, you know. I hate people to
think that. I just think, you know, wow, came up
with all these ideas, and you know, it was a
standy sort of had a way of working. And I
was able to stick with it because it was so clear,
you know, and it sounds crazy, but the criteria was
(17:07):
to you wipe out whatever ideas you might have had
about it. Was just shocked, could it be more this,
or more beautiful, or or contrast e and get it right?
You just stick with what I knew he wanted whereabouts.
He wanted it to be here again. Tony Zaira's documentary
(17:29):
film Workers that people think called somebody's in a system
for someone. You're doing layouts, you're you know, you're working
with lass, you're working with restoration, you're casting people, you're
working with the actors, and sometimes I was that the
title you were happy with, or was that you didn't
make any difference. You know something, when I traveled abroad
(17:50):
and I used to have to fill in these visas,
they used to say occupation. I always used to write
film worker. I mean, I'm a film worker. I'm a
That's what I do. So assistant to me is nothing
other than I am assisting somebody to fulfill what it
(18:11):
is they want to get up on a screen. I
was Donald coj. But but seeing what you do to
kind of barnacle yourself to that ship to work with
someone like that, I'm for one, look at this film
and I was just in tears when I watched this
film the first time in my computer because it was,
like God, it was worthy. You said the goal was
(18:33):
to got it right. Do you think you guys got
it right with the movies that you made. The answer
is yes, yes, you got it right. That's Leon de
Tally and the man who made a movie about him,
Tony Zeira. The documentary is called film Worker. Another director
with a reputation for respecting the men and women behind
(18:55):
the scenes is Chris Columbus, maker of many of America's
favorite family films, from Adventures in Babysitting to Harry Potter
and The Sorcerer's Stone. That respect has deep roots. My
future was basically working at either my father's aluminum factory
or my mother's automotive factory in the Only Escape. Really,
(19:17):
we're movies back then, and I would watch whatever film
came into town over and over, and I remember something
clicked when I saw Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid.
Here the rest of my conversation with Chris Columbus that
Here's the Thing dot org coming up, more of my
conversation with Stanley Kubrick's assistant Leon the Tally on the
(19:38):
lack of women in many of his films. I'm Alec Baldwin,
and you were listening to Here's the Thing. In his
new movie Film Worker, Tony Ziera has documented the whole
(19:59):
messy pro says of making a Kubrick film. A man
as obsessed as Stanley with controlling the shot might not
have been pleased. Even though Zeira's documentary Film Worker is
an inspiring story. There's one thing I and others have
noticed about Kubrick's uber One thing I want to ask
(20:19):
both of your opinion of which is, of course, there
are almost no women in Kubrick's films and uh women
without when you look at Lolita, obviously one is a
young uh sexual object tormenting him and the other is
his kind of silly her silly mother. There has to
be dealt with a certain way. And from Paths of
Glory on, you know, you've got some flight attendants as
(20:42):
they're taking the space shuttle up to the in two
thousand one. You don't have a lot of women in
future role. Then you get to Nicole obviously and the
big featured roman eyes watching. Well, what do you think
that was about with him? Actually, you know, researching and
talking to Leon he said the greatest thing to me,
which is he said that Lulita would she was that
she is the one that actually she was the hero
(21:03):
at then she's the one that walked away and got
her all figured out. And you could elaborate on that afterwards. Um.
But even the past the glory, the last scene with
Christiana Kubrick's wife, I think when the women came in
they were there for a very strong um message and
they kind of turned things around you could see obviously
in I but I think Leon Ready had he could
(21:26):
really talk about that a lot better than me. What
do you think that? Do you have any movies on
the drawing board that were from a woman's point of view? Ever?
Or no? Uh no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say he.
I don't think he ever thought about making a movie
about you know, a man or a woman, or a
man's world or a woman's world or whatever. I mean,
it was always a story. First they called him, and
(21:48):
then very often, sadly, you know, the protagonists in most
literature up until recently have been it shall be male basically,
you know. Um, But this is what I've always I've
always said. You know, if you do look at Lolita
and you do think about what that poorgo went through
and even you know she wasn't in great harmony with
(22:12):
her mother either, Um, but she came through it all.
She got through it all. She was pretty tough at
the end of it, if you look at it and
you think about it. And she walked out for all
of a better word, a winner. He died in prison,
you know. Um. You know Seller's characters who one was
(22:33):
shot and the other she escaped from too um in shining,
who survives? I mean Shelley. She survived with a little boy,
and um and and so I and I think the
when you think about Barry Lindon, you know who survived
(22:54):
and kept you know, even though he wanted, he tried
his best to destroyed, she has, she kept her standing
and her you know her what can you call it?
A position in life of status and whatever? You so,
you know, I really do. I don't think you thought
about it in a sort of feminine, chauvinistic sort of terms.
(23:17):
And when you come to eyes right shut is definitely
it's definitely Nicole's rule. Who is the stronger one? I
mean from the very off, you know, when he's getting
ready to go to the party, and the first thing
she does is, you know, she tells him where his
keys are and blah blah blah. And as they're leaving,
she looks up and down like just like that, and
(23:40):
he sort of told me everything just that one gesture.
You know that she she's she's looking at him, she's
checking him out, and she's the one who thinks about
things and blah blah blah. You know it's I never
thought about his films as being chauvinistic at all. Was
giving a good performance in a Kubrick film A difficult
(24:02):
thing to do, uh, in terms of the pressure and
the intensity of it, because some of them ever coming
without naming names, ever coming to find you and say,
what the funk am I going to do? Well? I'll
start off and say, very briefly, know, there's a scene
there where I talk about how he used to rehearse us.
(24:23):
I mean, you need to kick everybody off. The said,
just keep the actors and just go over it. While
he was trying to find his first angle, and from
that first angle everything else would flow from that. But
to find that first angle was so difficult for him.
It really well, the first shot was so difficult, and
because he was finding so difficult, we were running it
(24:44):
and running it and running it and running it and
running it. And gradually what happens is you drop all
pretense about acting. You're getting there in a really normal,
natural kind of way, and and the way people don't
always stand there and think through every word before they
say it in life and order, these people not at all.
(25:07):
So the acting process starts to go away in new
road and you just start to be, You start to become.
And then of course we shot a lot of takes
and so you know, you would get pushed into that direction,
which was working with Stanley thought you were ready to
shoot um. And I know that a lot of actors
(25:30):
don't like the thought of doing that. I mean they
want to come in and do it straight off there.
Jack was someone who could do that, but always they
had long discussions. They go off for walks around the
set and talk and talk about, you know, what they
were doing. And I think you know, when you look
at the shining and then you look at which is
(25:51):
of east Wick, which he made quite soon after that,
you kind of see that. I think Jack was sort
of he'd kind of east that feeling of being able
to not act mad but eccentric, but to be mad
and eccentric. I mean it was an enacting job, not really,
(26:11):
And I think that's one of the reasons why you
understands his actors ever got any kind of Oscar recognition
or or even nominations, because they weren't exactly acting, they
were actually being You done it a million times and
you didn't remember your dialogue. You knew your dialogue because
it was right inside your soul. You got what you say,
(26:34):
that idea of that repetition thing is so real because
that you see actors who have that insecurity and that
fear and they know that time is like a hand
at your throat and you're sitting there shooting and you
want to get it right. Do you think that when
you talk to him that I don't want to go
too far on this limb, but do you think when
(26:54):
you talk to him and spend time with him and
you around him, could you see little moments throughout the
arc of the post Barylndon career that you think he
missed acting? Does he ever have doubts about giving up acting? Yeah,
we did talk a lot of the well, I mean, obviously,
well he got his gift and eyes ye child when
he got the phone call that he is Red Cloak
(27:16):
and and a lot of people didn't know he was
actually that was leon Um, but as he said, he
just the phone call came in and it's like you're
doing it. And I also talked to other people that
he was supposed to dub his voice because it's just
impossible to get this amazing voice behind the mask. And
Stanley called and said, nope, I'm keeping that voice's original voice.
(27:37):
It's not dubbed. It's just as le undone it because
Stanley just loved how he delivered it. So yeah, actually,
Leon we did talk about that and he said that
actually the one time he missed acting where the few
times was, um, the scene on the stairs you could
take it from there. No, yeah, the scene but it
(27:57):
was shining and yeah, give it a bat when And
that's a real It's another example of where you know,
Stanley had taken him through the process so much, so
much that when Jack started it looked as if he
was over playing it a little. But the more he
did it, the more he felt he could relax, and
(28:18):
he became more terrifying for it. You know. It's quite incredible.
And just a little point here, a little thing here,
which um, well, I was living with a girlfriend and
and I was doing a lot of television work, and
she would keep on saying, what time are you going
for practice? And I thought, now, Darlin, it's rehearsal. It's
(28:42):
called rehearsal. Yeah, but she never stopped calling it practice.
What time are you going to be back from practice?
And I suddenly kind of thought, well, wait a minute,
Especially in television, it becomes a little bit there. If
you're not careful, you know, you you learn the lines
and you set it up and it has to do
with time as well time and everything else. But people
(29:05):
do arrive sometimes this is how they're going to do it,
and that's you know what's going to happen. And nothing
can happen that will change it will make it surprising
or and it can happen with stay on stage. He
could happen anywhere. But it is that thing that you know,
a process is different to some people don't need it.
(29:25):
I mean, some people don't need I was raised standard
SASKI one of a better word, you know, um. But
some people don't need it. And you don't always need
it for you know, a sitcom at last thirty minutes,
but you know it's there and it's SIT's it's SIT's deep.
And so that you know, ability to be able to
shift and and immerse yourself in that way is just wonderful.
(29:50):
It's it's a wonderful thing to be able to do. UM.
So you know, that's that's really it's so hard to explain,
but you know what I mean, we're talking about acting
really not the most thing in the world, but yeah, yeah,
and for a few years and we would do the second,
we'd say, our job is to get right up to
the edge as close as we can to really bad
acting as far as we can. I must take a
(30:14):
couple of questions while we have a little bit with
the sjucer right here. Did you ever think about directing yourself? Um? Yeah,
I guess I did. And I found stories that I
thought I'd really like to have time, you know, to
really get into this and research it and and write
it and you know so, um, but it's a time thing.
And sometimes I know for me, you see, I know,
(30:36):
my focus has to be one on what I'm doing,
and uh it's I hate the thought of him to
work at anything piecemeal. Um. But as time has gone on,
I suddenly realized that there's a lot of times has
gone by and a project like that. So I don't know.
I mean, of course I thought about it a lot,
(30:56):
and I think about it now. Did Cooper ever believe
that that living in England hurt his career? That if
if he had lived in New York or in the
States and could really go to dinners and go to
meetings and pressure these people so he wouldn't be having
the shitty full metal jacket display at the video store,
and he could have things more his way. That it's
(31:17):
a squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Did you ever
feel that way? Uh No, And we talked about We
did talk about that a lot. I mean, he he
just said, Leon, I'm not one for going back, you know.
And he liked England because simply because he could push
all that away from him. You know, he kept or
(31:38):
he kept all the visits to a minimum and he
wasn't going to be having to turn up at a
meeting or a meeting turn up at his place. He
could more as dictate his timetable. Okay, over here right
when this gentleman right here? Oh yeah, there's this lady.
Here we go. Sorry. He talked in the film about
the set designers. Something was breakdown, and I was just
(31:59):
wondering how part you got with the setting side. When
you're talking about about intensing means that happened that he
set designers of yourself. I can't say I was actually
deeply involved in in that side of it. I was
there with Standy, but the detail is so important, and
(32:21):
with Standy or you always felt if there wasn't a
detail there, it's because he didn't want it there. Because
that's how you get this continuity thing to you know,
Stanley one, there's a shot of Jack in in a
room time writing and there's a chair and in a
shot there isn't a chair, and that's got to mean something,
and it's no, because he changed his angles and he
(32:42):
thought the chair funked up his job he started, you know.
I mean it was as simple as that basic. But
you know, I think for people like Anton First, who
was set you know, production designer on full metal jacket,
and and you know, I think all of them very
exacting because actually had to take material and shape it
(33:02):
into something. Shot at something like the bombed down ghetto
of London full medal, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It
was like some distress. It was the gas station. And
the beautiful thing about it was that a lot of
the buildings were designed by the same French architects who
did a lot of work in into China, and so
we just went around and they grew in defunct, and
(33:24):
they were going to put build a freeway through it,
and so he just said, do what you like, So
we went rund and blew it up. It's like one
last question right here. I never thought of that put
the glasses. Let's let's do a quick question here we go.
Did you know his show fur and what did you
think of his documentary? Oh? Yeah, I knew, Yeah, I
knew media of course, but I haven't seen the documentary.
(33:47):
What does he say that driving to work in the morning,
he gave Stanley all the ideas in the car. I
needed to put a forty on their Stanley and gotta
come right. Actually, the troops, like actually everybody I shot with,
they all think they were the only ones that did
everything for Stanley, and they all feel or felt that
they're the ones that were tortured. But literally, honestly, like
(34:11):
from here to England to Sweden, this man was really
came across constantly. H he was the guy that really
pretty much did everything. And sometimes it makes other people
that were there furious, but he really deserves it because
it is the truth. Well, let me just say that
on behalf let's hear around the post, I mean half
(34:33):
of the film festival that has been our anniversary year.
I saw this film a link that they generously sent
to me to watch this film a while back, and
I fell in love with this film. I've been a
great admire of yours. I love you in that movie.
I've worship you in that movie, and I want to
say once again thank you both to Tony, thank you,
and and to and to Leon for coming well. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. MM. Whether or not Kubrick's approach
(35:03):
to directing actors was more method than madness is something
Leon and I could argue about Tony Zeerira's documentary film Worker.
It's about Samley Kubrick and Leon Vitally and everyone who
sacrifices sleep and sanity to make great art, whether their
names get remembered or not. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're
(35:28):
listening to hear. Is the thing
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing
in Hollywood. When someone shines a light on what happens
off screen. It's not always pretty, but director Tony Zeira's
documentary Film Worker reveals the best of movie making. It
tells the story of the unsung hero, the film worker,
(00:22):
whose name appears in the credits after most moviegoers have
already left the theater. The focus is Leon Vitali, who
at turned his back on a promising acting career to
serve as Stanley Kubrick's right hand man. Vitally, the working
class kid from outside Birmingham, England, trained as an actor
(00:46):
and got his break in Kubrick's period masterpiece Barry Linden.
Mr Ridman Barry. The last occasion on which we met,
you want to was me injury and dishonor in such
a manner and to such an extent as to which
(01:06):
no gentleman can willingly suffer without demanding satisfaction. However much
time intervenes, I have now come to claim that satisfaction.
But after that, Batali's name goes from the top of
(01:28):
the credits to the bottom. Casting costumes and personal assistant
to Mr Kubrick fatally turned his life over fully to
realizing the creative vision of his visionary boss. But for
actors of a certain age, his brilliant turn in Barry
Linden will always hold a special place in our hearts.
(01:48):
So that's where I started when I moderated a discussion
with Leon Battali and Film Worker director Tony Sierra at
the Hampton's International Film Festival. Every actor in the world
is obsessed with Barry Lyndon. We all would say lines
likely on the Tally, the snarkiest snark in the history
of cinema, Mr Ridman, by the indignation, the condemnation. You
(02:13):
know when he says to you in the dual scene,
have you had satisfaction? And your responsive what's the exact
word you say? I have not received obviously. I actually
know friends of mine who have used that with people
in bed. It's this great voluptuous performance in this movie
(02:36):
Leon the Tally uh, and he got He's gone. And
then as these films come out, you see his name
in the cuestions like what the hell is he doing?
And of course this film offers us an explanation to
that of like where where did Leon the tally Uh
detour into from his acting career. I would like to
welcome please the director of film. Please stand up, Tony Sierra,
(02:58):
thank you so much for coming, and please have a
warm welcome for Leon Vitality. Yeah, the dock that became
film Worker started out as something different. Zierira set out
to make the definitive account of Kubrick's thirteenth and final movie,
Eyes Wide Shot. The project was called SK thirteen. I'm
(03:21):
gonna sit here in the middle for Tony. I want
to ask what the genesis of the film was in
the idea of making Leon the protagonist. We finished filming
and Leon was the last person that I went to
film with um. And really the premise of SKA thirteen,
which we haven't started editing yet, was about really what
(03:41):
was going on with Stanley towards the end, because Eyes
Watch is a bit controversial a little bit, and I
wanted to see, like as a lot of people, well,
they said that he lost it towards the end. Some
people said that it was Tom and Nicole destroyed the film,
and some people said he really never finished editing, and
and people really surprised by casting and it just there
(04:02):
were a lot of unanswered. Um So I figured in
order to understand it, I needed to research Kubrick from
all the way from the beginning to today and see why,
why did he really want to make the film, because
obviously he owned the book for thirty years. And so
Leon was the last one because I knew he was
close to Warner Brothers, and I knew he was working
(04:23):
with the state, and I didn't want anybody to shut
me down. So I left Leon last. And then when
I met him at his house, I was, well, first
I had this image of him that I thought I
was just gonna get there and there's gonna be this
nice mansion and he's you know, and and he still
We're still in the UK in l a off Venice Boulevard,
and I just got there and it was just like
(04:44):
this amazing, lovely lovely and it just came out and
it's like carried all my equipment with me and we
just hit her off. And I was like, this is
like film history lives in that little house by himself.
And um So we decided to put the sk th
team footage away and tell his story because I think
he really needs to be acknowledged and honored because it's true,
(05:12):
so we um, you know. At first, it's like because
every time I would talk to someone I did a
lot of I mean six years on Ice and Stanley,
and the name always came up in different conversations of like,
if I was talking to someone about casting, they say
Leon Vitali. If I'll talk to someone about training actors,
it was Leon Vitali. If I go to the lab,
it's Leon Vitali. I mean, what actor that starts or
(05:35):
starts as an actor becomes the assistant And he color
corrected cha. So I was like, this is too good
to be true. It can't I mean the level of
of the jobs and the and the stuff that he did.
So I had to actually go back to so many
people who was again like is this really for real?
And I really found that I was. I knew this
(05:56):
much because he's really done a lot and he's humble
about Now. Cooper begins shooting eyes wide shot when he
died in nine. I think this is the autumn seven
we actually started shooting shooting, I think, yeah, yeah. And
the shooting goes on for how long, well year and
(06:17):
a half year and half yeah, yeah. And there were
there were a couple of breaks in there, but not long.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't do not stop for
a year half, you know, you can't. But but but
the uh And then he dies in March of ninety nine.
So he completed principal photography before he died. Oh yeah.
And he completed his final cart I mean, and he
(06:39):
sent it to New York for Tom and Nicole and
Terry Samuel, who was ahead of Warner Brothers in time,
and just said, this is it. I mean, all that
is left. He'd chosen the music, so all that was
left there was to re record that and fit it
in um and basically you know, just do the you know,
the sort of fine modeling job on it and all
(07:02):
the what can you say, There's so much to do
in post production, especially when you get closer to finishing
a movie for release. Was this film particularly difficult from him? Well,
you know, you know, he was getting tired because towards
the end, of course, he didn't really spare himself. I mean,
(07:23):
we wouldn't get back to the house until very often
to three in the morning, you know, and there'd be
a kind of a normal call in the you know,
next morning would be you know, usual call times and
what have you? Um, she stan Ye. Actually we were
(07:43):
so looking forward to doing AI next. I was thought
of so exciting, thought of working the studio, you know,
and just slamming the door and focusing on just there
the shots and no distractions and and nothing. Um. And
I think with Eyes might chut, you know, he because
(08:04):
working indoors is a totally different environment, as you know,
I mean, it's there are no distractions, You're focusing on
exactly what needs to be done, and there's no doubt
about it. He preferred shooting indoors. Any difficulty about about
Eyes by chill he had, I think was really more
story and trying to sort of work it in a
(08:28):
way that it would mean something to people now. But
pre production took a year, and it often took that
along with him. One of the interesting things about Kubrick
for me, because he made films so rarely that when
you saw him he had aged quite a bit in
between films. Kubrick is round and kind of full bodied
(08:50):
and a thick mane of brown hair. Then you cut
the five and six and seven years later at a
different Kubrick and then a different coupric and he and
it looks whether it. He looks hired, you know, he
looks older. Yeah, he wasn't a health none, is what
I'm saying, No doubt about that. Um, but I think
just this, uh what can I say? This ongoing it's
(09:13):
almost like a grind, but not in a negative way,
but everything it's like a hab Yeah, yeah, you know exactly. Yeah.
What's interesting in the film that I love about the
film is that this film reveals that there's things he
couldn't do or wouldn't do, and that's what fell to
you to do. You know, he he if there's ten
things you need a director, and a director who's producing
(09:35):
and so hands on it his own or her own films,
that individual is so hands on it, there's ten things
they're gonna do. He would do five or six of
them on the deepest level. Then the other four of
them he relied on someone else to do. And that
felt to you to take care of the little boy
and to to to and to and to do it
a myriad of jobs. Forget all the technical jobs. Forget
(09:57):
about you as a as his curator of his of
his film stock and so forth. In the documentary film Worker,
my Guest, Leon Vitali describes what a taskmaster, Director Stanley
Kubrick was if anything, you even went home, you said,
it is your responsibility to make sure they understand exactly
(10:19):
what you want. And I could take two, three, four, five,
six tries to get it right if I felt like
I wasn't getting any response or people were kind of
for one of the better phrases, digging me around, you know,
saying they're gonna send something you never get sent, and
you've got to chase him up, and chase him up.
(10:39):
He'd say, Okay, Leon, tonight you get on the phone
and you say to them, if they're talking like that
to you, they're talking like that to me. It really
felt like there was a kind of a loyalty there.
So sometimes did you did you when you came on
the first job with him, after you did Barry Lyndon?
You shot Barry Lyndon? Of what period? You shot that
(11:01):
up for nine years? I'm kidding, Um, you shot that
what years? Um? I was actually told i'd got the
role and I went down to Salisbury where they were
shooting in the January of god, what was it seventy
three something like that? Um, time time has no meaning
when you've worked with him, you know, um seventy three
(11:23):
and I was supposed to be there for um thirteen
days or eight weeks, and in the end I was
there until the end of July seventy three. So um.
After that, of course, there was an incredibly long cutting
period and what heavy um. And then he he rang
(11:43):
me because I'd actually done another film job. I think
we saw it. They went back to acting. I went,
I went to acting, and I thought I could use
what little clout I had to calm my way into
Did you say, yeah, so you would. We were in
the editor for Frankistan Yeah, yeah, yeah. What does he
(12:05):
make next? After after after a barrel, Linda? What does
he make? I should know? The Shining Shining? And he
sent me that book. He sent me a book. I
told him what I was doing that I love that.
So it was an actor you can make ten films.
What he's thinking of his next film? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
And he said he'll come with me make my next film.
He started. The Shining went like nineteen no, nineteen seventy seven.
(12:28):
I was sent out here to America to look for
Danny and then he called me. Towards the end of
that process, I mean it took seven months during she
not to find him, but to make sure there wasn't
anyone better than him, because I found him very early
in the process, funny enough. And so just towards the
(12:51):
end of that process, he said, well, while you're there,
go and take some interior photographs of hotels. And I
started doing that and that got you know, that wasn't
I thought it would just be going and take a
snap of a room, you know, but it wasn't. I mean,
we were talking about exposures and you've got to do this,
you got to do that night. But the only thing
(13:11):
I've never had was an instematic, you know. But it
was wonderful because he sort of stepped me through it
step by step, and he said, by the time life
series photography photography books, and so I did that and
so kind of reading those and learning and then he
was telling me and so towards the very end, just
(13:32):
before we came home, he rang me and uh, and
he said, what are you planning on doing after you
finished here? And I said I don't know. He said, okay,
then you're coming to London and that was it. I mean,
suddenly i I've got a job again. So there's some
people who are missing from the film in my mind,
(13:52):
or we don't appear in the film either Tom or
in the cold to talk about the eyes Watch experience,
or members of Kubrick's family, We did you approaching them
to do the film. Um, I'll be honest and UM
say that it's really hard. If you watched, I mean
you just saw the film. Um. Ryan O'Neil is there
because Leon was his co star le Ermie obviously always
(14:18):
pretty much everything he has for Leon and and he's
always working. Um. We go into the status issue and
a lot of people are not interested in filming with
you to talk about an assistant, and so obviously Ryan
would do it because they were co actors. UM. A
(14:38):
lot of people UM in Hollywood either it's either not
going to get the truth or they didn't know what
was going on on the set. And big stars are
like they're wrapped up in their own world. They're really
not aware of what's happening because they show up obviously
there's a lot of work to do. UM, so very
little they would really know what's going on with UM
(14:59):
the assistant who's running around and UM doing a billion things. Yeah. Yeah,
and families is the same thing, because, um, I don't
think they were going to sit with me again and say, well,
you know why, Yes, Stanley was really difficult and he
tortured ly on and I mean again, and you have
to be objective. It's I did approach some I wasn't
(15:22):
you know, some wan't say who. But some felt that,
like you know, they'll be undermining Stanley if they appear
they knew the truth. But they just not going to
sit in front of the camera and say, yes, this
man done all this stuff. So in the end, he
finished his eyes wide shot, he cuts eyewat eyes watching.
(15:42):
It's his final cut, and he dies soon after that.
And the controversy is about about what not the final
It was it about protecting the final cut, or was
about that I was going to be printed the film?
The technology of that were you stepped in and helped
to ensure what well, Fritzical we this um We were
(16:03):
in the midst of running tests with stocks, different stocks
of films for printing and what have you. Uh So
we resolved that impost. We talked about it, and we'd
favored we already sort of favoring one UM one kind
of film in particular, and we started sort of working
(16:24):
with and experimenting it. So I knew that was the
line we were going to be taking there and things
like all the rest of it, with the foot's and
the folio and the list and that, you know, all
those things. I followed the same pattern as we did
on full metal Jackets as close as we could, you know,
different films and what have you. But it was just
(16:47):
to follow a pattern, you know. I hate people to
think that. I just think, you know, wow, came up
with all these ideas, and you know, it was a
standy sort of had a way of working. And I
was able to stick with it because it was so clear,
you know, and it sounds crazy, but the criteria was
(17:07):
to you wipe out whatever ideas you might have had
about it. Was just shocked, could it be more this,
or more beautiful, or or contrast e and get it right?
You just stick with what I knew he wanted whereabouts.
He wanted it to be here again. Tony Zaira's documentary
(17:29):
film Workers that people think called somebody's in a system
for someone. You're doing layouts, you're you know, you're working
with lass, you're working with restoration, you're casting people, you're
working with the actors, and sometimes I was that the
title you were happy with, or was that you didn't
make any difference. You know something, when I traveled abroad
(17:50):
and I used to have to fill in these visas,
they used to say occupation. I always used to write
film worker. I mean, I'm a film worker. I'm a
That's what I do. So assistant to me is nothing
other than I am assisting somebody to fulfill what it
(18:11):
is they want to get up on a screen. I
was Donald coj. But but seeing what you do to
kind of barnacle yourself to that ship to work with
someone like that, I'm for one, look at this film
and I was just in tears when I watched this
film the first time in my computer because it was,
like God, it was worthy. You said the goal was
(18:33):
to got it right. Do you think you guys got
it right with the movies that you made. The answer
is yes, yes, you got it right. That's Leon de
Tally and the man who made a movie about him,
Tony Zeira. The documentary is called film Worker. Another director
with a reputation for respecting the men and women behind
(18:55):
the scenes is Chris Columbus, maker of many of America's
favorite family films, from Adventures in Babysitting to Harry Potter
and The Sorcerer's Stone. That respect has deep roots. My
future was basically working at either my father's aluminum factory
or my mother's automotive factory in the Only Escape. Really,
(19:17):
we're movies back then, and I would watch whatever film
came into town over and over, and I remember something
clicked when I saw Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid.
Here the rest of my conversation with Chris Columbus that
Here's the Thing dot org coming up, more of my
conversation with Stanley Kubrick's assistant Leon the Tally on the
(19:38):
lack of women in many of his films. I'm Alec Baldwin,
and you were listening to Here's the Thing. In his
new movie Film Worker, Tony Ziera has documented the whole
(19:59):
messy pro says of making a Kubrick film. A man
as obsessed as Stanley with controlling the shot might not
have been pleased. Even though Zeira's documentary Film Worker is
an inspiring story. There's one thing I and others have
noticed about Kubrick's uber One thing I want to ask
(20:19):
both of your opinion of which is, of course, there
are almost no women in Kubrick's films and uh women
without when you look at Lolita, obviously one is a
young uh sexual object tormenting him and the other is
his kind of silly her silly mother. There has to
be dealt with a certain way. And from Paths of
Glory on, you know, you've got some flight attendants as
(20:42):
they're taking the space shuttle up to the in two
thousand one. You don't have a lot of women in
future role. Then you get to Nicole obviously and the
big featured roman eyes watching. Well, what do you think
that was about with him? Actually, you know, researching and
talking to Leon he said the greatest thing to me,
which is he said that Lulita would she was that
she is the one that actually she was the hero
(21:03):
at then she's the one that walked away and got
her all figured out. And you could elaborate on that afterwards. Um.
But even the past the glory, the last scene with
Christiana Kubrick's wife, I think when the women came in
they were there for a very strong um message and
they kind of turned things around you could see obviously
in I but I think Leon Ready had he could
(21:26):
really talk about that a lot better than me. What
do you think that? Do you have any movies on
the drawing board that were from a woman's point of view? Ever?
Or no? Uh no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say he.
I don't think he ever thought about making a movie
about you know, a man or a woman, or a
man's world or a woman's world or whatever. I mean,
it was always a story. First they called him, and
(21:48):
then very often, sadly, you know, the protagonists in most
literature up until recently have been it shall be male basically,
you know. Um, But this is what I've always I've
always said. You know, if you do look at Lolita
and you do think about what that poorgo went through
and even you know she wasn't in great harmony with
(22:12):
her mother either, Um, but she came through it all.
She got through it all. She was pretty tough at
the end of it, if you look at it and
you think about it. And she walked out for all
of a better word, a winner. He died in prison,
you know. Um. You know Seller's characters who one was
(22:33):
shot and the other she escaped from too um in shining,
who survives? I mean Shelley. She survived with a little boy,
and um and and so I and I think the
when you think about Barry Lindon, you know who survived
(22:54):
and kept you know, even though he wanted, he tried
his best to destroyed, she has, she kept her standing
and her you know her what can you call it?
A position in life of status and whatever? You so,
you know, I really do. I don't think you thought
about it in a sort of feminine, chauvinistic sort of terms.
(23:17):
And when you come to eyes right shut is definitely
it's definitely Nicole's rule. Who is the stronger one? I
mean from the very off, you know, when he's getting
ready to go to the party, and the first thing
she does is, you know, she tells him where his
keys are and blah blah blah. And as they're leaving,
she looks up and down like just like that, and
(23:40):
he sort of told me everything just that one gesture.
You know that she she's she's looking at him, she's
checking him out, and she's the one who thinks about
things and blah blah blah. You know it's I never
thought about his films as being chauvinistic at all. Was
giving a good performance in a Kubrick film A difficult
(24:02):
thing to do, uh, in terms of the pressure and
the intensity of it, because some of them ever coming
without naming names, ever coming to find you and say,
what the funk am I going to do? Well? I'll
start off and say, very briefly, know, there's a scene
there where I talk about how he used to rehearse us.
(24:23):
I mean, you need to kick everybody off. The said,
just keep the actors and just go over it. While
he was trying to find his first angle, and from
that first angle everything else would flow from that. But
to find that first angle was so difficult for him.
It really well, the first shot was so difficult, and
because he was finding so difficult, we were running it
(24:44):
and running it and running it and running it and
running it. And gradually what happens is you drop all
pretense about acting. You're getting there in a really normal,
natural kind of way, and and the way people don't
always stand there and think through every word before they
say it in life and order, these people not at all.
(25:07):
So the acting process starts to go away in new
road and you just start to be, You start to become.
And then of course we shot a lot of takes
and so you know, you would get pushed into that direction,
which was working with Stanley thought you were ready to
shoot um. And I know that a lot of actors
(25:30):
don't like the thought of doing that. I mean they
want to come in and do it straight off there.
Jack was someone who could do that, but always they
had long discussions. They go off for walks around the
set and talk and talk about, you know, what they
were doing. And I think you know, when you look
at the shining and then you look at which is
(25:51):
of east Wick, which he made quite soon after that,
you kind of see that. I think Jack was sort
of he'd kind of east that feeling of being able
to not act mad but eccentric, but to be mad
and eccentric. I mean it was an enacting job, not really,
(26:11):
And I think that's one of the reasons why you
understands his actors ever got any kind of Oscar recognition
or or even nominations, because they weren't exactly acting, they
were actually being You done it a million times and
you didn't remember your dialogue. You knew your dialogue because
it was right inside your soul. You got what you say,
(26:34):
that idea of that repetition thing is so real because
that you see actors who have that insecurity and that
fear and they know that time is like a hand
at your throat and you're sitting there shooting and you
want to get it right. Do you think that when
you talk to him that I don't want to go
too far on this limb, but do you think when
(26:54):
you talk to him and spend time with him and
you around him, could you see little moments throughout the
arc of the post Barylndon career that you think he
missed acting? Does he ever have doubts about giving up acting? Yeah,
we did talk a lot of the well, I mean, obviously,
well he got his gift and eyes ye child when
he got the phone call that he is Red Cloak
(27:16):
and and a lot of people didn't know he was
actually that was leon Um, but as he said, he
just the phone call came in and it's like you're
doing it. And I also talked to other people that
he was supposed to dub his voice because it's just
impossible to get this amazing voice behind the mask. And
Stanley called and said, nope, I'm keeping that voice's original voice.
(27:37):
It's not dubbed. It's just as le undone it because
Stanley just loved how he delivered it. So yeah, actually,
Leon we did talk about that and he said that
actually the one time he missed acting where the few
times was, um, the scene on the stairs you could
take it from there. No, yeah, the scene but it
(27:57):
was shining and yeah, give it a bat when And
that's a real It's another example of where you know,
Stanley had taken him through the process so much, so
much that when Jack started it looked as if he
was over playing it a little. But the more he
did it, the more he felt he could relax, and
(28:18):
he became more terrifying for it. You know. It's quite incredible.
And just a little point here, a little thing here,
which um, well, I was living with a girlfriend and
and I was doing a lot of television work, and
she would keep on saying, what time are you going
for practice? And I thought, now, Darlin, it's rehearsal. It's
(28:42):
called rehearsal. Yeah, but she never stopped calling it practice.
What time are you going to be back from practice?
And I suddenly kind of thought, well, wait a minute,
Especially in television, it becomes a little bit there. If
you're not careful, you know, you you learn the lines
and you set it up and it has to do
with time as well time and everything else. But people
(29:05):
do arrive sometimes this is how they're going to do it,
and that's you know what's going to happen. And nothing
can happen that will change it will make it surprising
or and it can happen with stay on stage. He
could happen anywhere. But it is that thing that you know,
a process is different to some people don't need it.
(29:25):
I mean, some people don't need I was raised standard
SASKI one of a better word, you know, um. But
some people don't need it. And you don't always need
it for you know, a sitcom at last thirty minutes,
but you know it's there and it's SIT's it's SIT's deep.
And so that you know, ability to be able to
shift and and immerse yourself in that way is just wonderful.
(29:50):
It's it's a wonderful thing to be able to do. UM.
So you know, that's that's really it's so hard to explain,
but you know what I mean, we're talking about acting
really not the most thing in the world, but yeah, yeah,
and for a few years and we would do the second,
we'd say, our job is to get right up to
the edge as close as we can to really bad
acting as far as we can. I must take a
(30:14):
couple of questions while we have a little bit with
the sjucer right here. Did you ever think about directing yourself? Um? Yeah,
I guess I did. And I found stories that I
thought I'd really like to have time, you know, to
really get into this and research it and and write
it and you know so, um, but it's a time thing.
And sometimes I know for me, you see, I know,
(30:36):
my focus has to be one on what I'm doing,
and uh it's I hate the thought of him to
work at anything piecemeal. Um. But as time has gone on,
I suddenly realized that there's a lot of times has
gone by and a project like that. So I don't know.
I mean, of course I thought about it a lot,
(30:56):
and I think about it now. Did Cooper ever believe
that that living in England hurt his career? That if
if he had lived in New York or in the
States and could really go to dinners and go to
meetings and pressure these people so he wouldn't be having
the shitty full metal jacket display at the video store,
and he could have things more his way. That it's
(31:17):
a squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Did you ever
feel that way? Uh No, And we talked about We
did talk about that a lot. I mean, he he
just said, Leon, I'm not one for going back, you know.
And he liked England because simply because he could push
all that away from him. You know, he kept or
(31:38):
he kept all the visits to a minimum and he
wasn't going to be having to turn up at a
meeting or a meeting turn up at his place. He
could more as dictate his timetable. Okay, over here right
when this gentleman right here? Oh yeah, there's this lady.
Here we go. Sorry. He talked in the film about
the set designers. Something was breakdown, and I was just
(31:59):
wondering how part you got with the setting side. When
you're talking about about intensing means that happened that he
set designers of yourself. I can't say I was actually
deeply involved in in that side of it. I was
there with Standy, but the detail is so important, and
(32:21):
with Standy or you always felt if there wasn't a
detail there, it's because he didn't want it there. Because
that's how you get this continuity thing to you know,
Stanley one, there's a shot of Jack in in a
room time writing and there's a chair and in a
shot there isn't a chair, and that's got to mean something,
and it's no, because he changed his angles and he
(32:42):
thought the chair funked up his job he started, you know.
I mean it was as simple as that basic. But
you know, I think for people like Anton First, who
was set you know, production designer on full metal jacket,
and and you know, I think all of them very
exacting because actually had to take material and shape it
(33:02):
into something. Shot at something like the bombed down ghetto
of London full medal, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It
was like some distress. It was the gas station. And
the beautiful thing about it was that a lot of
the buildings were designed by the same French architects who
did a lot of work in into China, and so
we just went around and they grew in defunct, and
(33:24):
they were going to put build a freeway through it,
and so he just said, do what you like, So
we went rund and blew it up. It's like one
last question right here. I never thought of that put
the glasses. Let's let's do a quick question here we go.
Did you know his show fur and what did you
think of his documentary? Oh? Yeah, I knew, Yeah, I
knew media of course, but I haven't seen the documentary.
(33:47):
What does he say that driving to work in the morning,
he gave Stanley all the ideas in the car. I
needed to put a forty on their Stanley and gotta
come right. Actually, the troops, like actually everybody I shot with,
they all think they were the only ones that did
everything for Stanley, and they all feel or felt that
they're the ones that were tortured. But literally, honestly, like
(34:11):
from here to England to Sweden, this man was really
came across constantly. H he was the guy that really
pretty much did everything. And sometimes it makes other people
that were there furious, but he really deserves it because
it is the truth. Well, let me just say that
on behalf let's hear around the post, I mean half
(34:33):
of the film festival that has been our anniversary year.
I saw this film a link that they generously sent
to me to watch this film a while back, and
I fell in love with this film. I've been a
great admire of yours. I love you in that movie.
I've worship you in that movie, and I want to
say once again thank you both to Tony, thank you,
and and to and to Leon for coming well. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. MM. Whether or not Kubrick's approach
(35:03):
to directing actors was more method than madness is something
Leon and I could argue about Tony Zeerira's documentary film Worker.
It's about Samley Kubrick and Leon Vitally and everyone who
sacrifices sleep and sanity to make great art, whether their
names get remembered or not. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're
(35:28):
listening to hear. Is the thing
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