October 3, 2023 • 50 mins
Alec Baldwin speaks with two genius musicians whose artistry has contributed to some of the most memorable songs of the sixties, seventies and eighties, leaving an indelible mark on the music world. Steve Gadd, one of the most influential drummers of all time, is known for bridging jazz, rock, and blues. He has been a studio musician for countless artists from Carly Simon to Aretha Franklin – and tours with musicians like Eric Clapton, James Taylor, Joe Cocker, as well as with his own outfit, The Steve Gadd Band. His artistry can be found on Paul Simon’s “50 Ways To Leave Your Lover” and Steely Dan’s “Aja.” Larry Carlton is a four-time Grammy winning jazz and rock guitarist who became famous for his work as a studio musician in the 1970s and 1980s. He has played in over 3,000 studio sessions with artists like Joni Mitchell, Steely Dan, Michael Jackson, Dolly Parton and many others. Rolling Stone named his contribution to Steely Dan’s “Kid Charlemagne” one of the best guitar solos in rock music. Carlton is also renowned for his solo work and as a member of the jazz group The Crusaders and the smooth jazz band Fourplay.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. That is, of course, Don't Take
(00:46):
Me Alive, from Steely Dan's nineteen seventy six album The
Royal Scam.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I Know you're out there with raises, your eyes and
your back alone.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
The song features the guitar stylings of Larry Carlton. My
guests today are two genius musicians whose artistry has contributed
to some of the most memorable songs of the sixties, seventies,
and eighties, leaving an indelible mark on the music world.
Steve Gadd is one of the most influential drummers of
(01:21):
all time, known for bridging jazz, rock and blues. Gadd's
artistry can be heard on songs like Paul Simon's Fifty
Ways to Leave Your Lover and Steely Dan's Asia. This
is Steve Gadd with his band The Gad Gang playing
(01:42):
Things Ain't What They Used to Be from the group's
nineteen eighty eight album Here and Now. Steve Gadd has
been a studio musician for countless artists from Carly Simon
to Aretha Franklin, and has toured with Eric Clapton, James Taylor,
Joe Cocker, Maynard Firms, Ferguson, Paul Simon, and many many more.
(02:03):
But first my conversation with four time Grammy winner Larry Carlton.
That's him playing his song Nightcrawler from his self titled
nineteen seventy eight solo album. Carlton is a jazz and
(02:27):
rock guitarist who has played on over three thousand recording
sessions with everyone from Barbara Streisand and Sammy Davis Junior
to Michael Jackson and Joni Mitchell. Among the songs he
is most famous for is Steely Dan's Kid Charlemagne, which
Rolling Stone named as one of the best guitar solos
(02:47):
in rock music. Larry Carlton is also a member of
legendary rock group The Crusaders, and even co wrote the
theme songs for the TV shows Hill Street Blues and
Who's the Boss. If that wasn't enough, the prolific guitarist
has enjoyed an impressive solo career. I was curious how
a musician that has offered such extraordinary support to others
(03:12):
came to prioritize his own music and write his own songs.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I didn't start writing songs until I had a record deal.
I didn't pursue being a solo artist in the seventies.
You know, I was so busy doing sessions, and that
started early in nineteen seventy and by nineteen seventy seven,
I was already kind of burned out. I was doing,
you know, five hundred sessions a year, charging double scale
(03:40):
for all of those, so I couldn't charge any more money,
and I was just getting kind of burned out. And
in my teen years, I was a club player. I
played jazz in a club and that was my passion.
So I just started telling everybody that was calling me
for sessions in nineteen seventy seven, I'm not doing sessions anymore.
(04:01):
I'm going to start producing and just playing. So I
took a gig in North Hollywood at a jazz club
on Tuesday nights, and I was approached by a record
producer from CBS, and he said, you thought about making
a record, And that's how my solo career really started,
by an offer that I wasn't looking for.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So when you say about being burned out on the
sessions thing, I would imagine that a time comes, the
phone rings and you hang up the phone and go,
oh my god, like, this is how you know you've
made it. This is how you know you're at the
upper echelon of the music business because it's Quincy Jones
or whoever's on the phone where you sit there and go,
(04:45):
my god, look at where I'm going. Was there a
moment like that for you?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Mostly early in my career. Pretty soon you get used
to the client tile you're working with and it just
becomes a daily Oh yeah, I got a session from
Steely Dan, I got a session next week from Quincy,
and it becomes the norm. But early in my career, yes,
there were those days of realizing, my lord, look at
(05:10):
my date book for the next three months, I'm busy,
thankful and busy.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And people that you were just super admiring of, like
when you're in the room with them and you're saying,
this is fun. I mean they're great musicians and great artists.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And yeah, that was That was another thing I realized.
To get to play with some of the world's greatest
musicians every day just raises the level that you already
have an aptitude for because you're surrounded by that quality.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You know, now, your mother, I read, had a guitar
laying around and she played guitar, and you picked up
the guitar when you were about six years old. Yeah, yeah,
now fooling around with a guitar and playing with a
guitar like a toy. And then many many people put
it down and they never pursue it. And then there's
(05:57):
people who something happens. Is the nature or nurture? Does
a person pick up a guitar and you've either got
it or you don't? Or can you cajole people into
becoming more exploring their musicianship? Which do you think it is?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I think it's both, you do, and I've used the analogy.
I mean, if a kid can shoot baskets at four
years old with his dad out in the driveway and
another kid down the block can't even get the ball,
you know there's an aptitude waiting to be developed, I think,
and the nurturing gives you that chance to go for
it if you have the apptitude.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
And that was my case. Did your kids have any
of that aptitude? Did it become the family business for
either one of your kids or now? Yeah? Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
My son Travis Carlton, he got the gift when he
was little he would sit on my lap while I
was at the mixing console, just doing rough mixes in
my studio, and his body language, already at three years old,
was in time with the music. He's a bass player.
Right out of high school, he went to Musicians Institute
(07:05):
in la And since then that's been gosh, twenty three
years ago. Now he tours the world with me, and
he tours the world with Robin Ford, and he tours
the world with Scott Henderson, great guitar players, and just
last year he was asked to join Steve Gadd's band.
So Travis got the gift.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You were born in nineteen forty eight, Yes, and when
you're coming up, I'm assuming that someone who's as musically
gifted as you is absorbing music early on. What was
the music you were listening to in the fifties.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I can remember my grandmother having Perry Como records,
Dean Martin records, So yeah, in the early fifties that
was the music on the radio. And by the mid
fifties then doo wop was coming, rock and roll was
being explored on the radio. So I was hearing all
(08:03):
of that also, And yeah, sure, sure, Chuck Berry, that
but in Los Angeles, and it was a local television show.
Every Saturday night, there was a country Western TV show
called The town Hall Party. And the guitar player on
(08:23):
that show was Joe Maphis, and he was the fastest
damn guitar player you ever heard. And of course as
a kid, you're just you know, you can't believe it,
and so it's inspiring. I got to see that on
Saturday nights. So a lot of different kinds of music
I was listening to while starting to take guitar lessons.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Now, in my business, there's a similar component where you
go to work for Spielberg and you show up and
you just say yes, sir, no, sir, I'm in a salute.
Here's a guy that knows exactly what he wants from
the first frame to the last frame, and you're there
and you just want to say, tell me what you
want me to do to help you make your movie. Now,
other films I do with writer directors who are more new,
(09:06):
they want your input. Does that chasm exist in your business?
Two people who were very hands on and then people
will sit there and say, you tell me what you
want to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I was fortunate that after recording with The Crusaders in
the early seventies when I was twenty three, and then
a number of other hits.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right after that.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The producer started calling me and leaving the paper blank.
They wanted me to create something on their production that
maybe they would not have thought of. So I was
very fortunate that I had that kind of freedom.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Who pushed you the hardesty, even when you were younger,
and they knew they were in a room, they were
in a studio with a young guy. I don't mean
it in an abusive way. I don't mean it in
a pejorative way. Who really pushed you, producer and helped you.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
What comes to mind is in late sixty nine, twenty
one got one of my first sessions for a film
call on Universal, probably subbing for some time. My name
was on the list, and then they couldn't get the
guy they wanted for the afternoon session. So I walk
into the session and it's all the heavy cats and
(10:17):
it's a Quincy Jones. He's doing Fat Albert for Cosby.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
The background music.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, what Quincy would do with this is he had
the score for small band I don't know, three horns,
blah blah blah, we would do a take. Maybe the
guitar part was just chords, junk NK, nothing important. But
then what Quincy would do is say, all right now
on this one guitar take the flute part. Flutes take
(10:47):
that he would reorchestrate it on the spot. So, all
of a sudden, twenty one years old, walking into this
heavy thing and they're going to hand me the flute part,
pushed me, not knowing that that was really something I
had never done before. Well, I made it. I made
the parts, did a good job. Years and years later,
(11:11):
after working off and on with Quincy, I asked him
about that date. I said, I remember my first date.
It was fat Albert blah blah blah and blah blah,
and I said I walked out of there scared to death.
He said, all I remember is you did a good job.
In other words, he was care maybe out the guitar
player playing the flute part. But I never forgot that
(11:33):
because it showed me the challenges that could come up
as a session player.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
When you go into a room and you do what
you do, is it really all the same? Meaning? Music
is music, and musicians have a certain language and a
certain code, and it doesn't matter if it's Neil Diamond
or you know, James Ingram, Sure, you know Michael Jackson.
Is it really there's an essential base of it that's
(11:59):
just the same whoever you work with.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, the approach is the same. Like I said, they're
expecting many of us in the rhythm section, especially to
come up with parts to enhance their song. And you
take a great producer arranger like Quincy Jones. When I
got the call to play on Michael Jackson's She's Out
of My Life. I got to the studio and Michael
(12:22):
had already cut his vocal and Greg phill and Gaines's
keyboard part was already cut, and that's all there was.
And they wanted my guitar to somehow enhance this small production.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So I did.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I did what I liked, and then Quincy, I know
one part I played I run through and Quincy looked
over at Bruce Swedeen, the engineer, and he said will
it print? And Bruce said it's too low. So the
engineer's input was he knew when he went to mix
that record my guitar part that I had felt was
(12:57):
in the wrong range. Said okay. Quincy said, okay, try
some other things that aren't so low. So that kind
of collaboration off of my creativity to their input made
that final product. They let you find your way, yes,
but with their guidance.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Right. Some of my favorite music that you have played
is with Steely Dan. I love Nightfly and you played
on Nightfly. Yeah, I love that album. But when you're
with a duo like that, is there one of them
that's more Becker is renowned as being a very quiet guy,
you know, he's not Fagan, and Fagan was much more
(13:38):
colorful and much more articulate. And they wrote the songs together.
But when you were in the studio with them, did
they both contributed? They both have somebody to say about
they want what they wanted you to do, or one
person took the lead.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I would say they were like brothers, and I'm thinking now,
not on the tracking dates, but when I would be
over dubbing guitar solo, they would listen and react and
one guy would say, oh, let's try blah blah blah
blah blah, and maybe next time it would be Donald's.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Saying I really liked that part right.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There, and they would collaborate. It was amazing in that
while we were doing the tracking dates. Donald was a
little more involved because he was more sophisticated harmonically at
the keyboard when they wrote those tunes, so he could
interpret and get more involved in chord voicinges and things
like that. But I'm sure when they were collaborating writing
(14:29):
the tunes, the two of them together, their brains just
went nuts and came up with those great songs.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Well, I mean, there's no song I know of more
than Don't Take Me Alive and the guitar playing you did?
I mean I listened to that. I mean I get
a chill.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I didn't tell this story for many years, but when
The Royal Scam by Steely Dan did come out, there
was a review in Rolling Stone raving about my Kid
Charlemagne solo. Yeah, and I hadn't thought of that song
or that album since the session, and so got the record,
put it on, listened to Kid Charlemagne with my then wife,
(15:08):
and at the end of the song, I looked at
her and I never forgot this was so honest, I said.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
It just sounds like me.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I mean really, so, I'm glad the world reacted the
way they did to it. But I didn't know it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
How many recordings do you think you did with.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Stealing that Royal Scam? Asia will include Nightfly in there
with Donald Gaucho was an interesting one. They cut that
in New York and I wasn't involved at all. But
when the record came out again, reviews were saying Larry
Carlton's solo on Third World Man. I thought I didn't
(15:48):
play on that album. So this story was told to
me later that the second engineer had erased one of
their masters by accident and they needed one one more
song for the Gaucho album. So they went back into
the archives of the Royal Scam and we had cut
Third World Man, And that's how I ended up on Gaucho.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
There was a lot of self destructive behavior going onto
the music business in the seventies, a lot of people
that were self immolating with drugs and alcohol, and you know,
very talented people who ended up dead. Now in your business,
whether it's you or anyone else, do you find yourself
sometimes sitting there going I'll pass. I don't necessarily want
(16:33):
to go into the studio with that person because they're
a mess and you're not quite sure you want to work.
Was there any of that for you were there people
you came across again, no names, but people you thought,
I'm not so interested.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yes, and I have named this name before, and I
think it's appropriate. Phil Spector's office called me for five
nights of recording with John Lennon when he was producing
him and the other musicians, a couple of them, Leon Russell, myself.
Bottom line, we get to the studio and first, let's
(17:08):
say a six pm session call. Well, nobody showed up
Phil or John until like nine thirty or ten, and
then we went out and we were going to cut
the old rock and roll song Boney Maroney. Well, I
knew that was when I was a kid. I played
Bonie Morony. But this was at a bad time for John,
(17:29):
first time I'd ever met him. So he's sitting next
to me and he's calling the chord changes to Bonie Maroney. Well,
there are three and I played it as a kid.
So the bottom line was not a good time for John.
The session was a drag. We waited four hours plus
to play Bonye Marony. When I left the session, I
(17:49):
drove Leon Russell back to the Sunset Marquis and I said, man,
that was a drag. And with his Oklahoma accent. He said,
I didn't come back to Tulsa in the morning, so
I got home and immediately just went to my call
and canceled the rest of the week for Phil Spector's thing.
I didn't want to sit through that for five nights
(18:12):
a drunk artist, a late start, So it was a
bad experience. And I guess some months later, I don't
know how many months later they did end up getting
that album finished, but I didn't participate.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Right right, Well, thank you for sharing that. And it's
an interesting thing where people who have that problem like
in my business, you know, I mean, it's very different.
I think of music as as I always say, acting
is what you do when you have no musical talents.
You were married and you have two children. Yes, And
(18:46):
during the height of your career you were living where
in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Hollywood Hills, right above the Pilgrimage, right.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
And the peripatetic nature of your business was that tough
on your family You're traveling all the time.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Say yes, my first child, Katie Bug, she was born
in nineteen eighty, so I was already ten years into
my session career and also moving out, you know, moving
out of the session scene into the solo scene. So yeah,
I started traveling more and more, and I would say
it took a toll for sure, which you'll hear that
(19:22):
story from a lot of players.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I think sure.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I can remember when Katie was maybe two years old.
I was sitting out on the driveway with her.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
This is one of.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Those things that a dad never forgets, you know, and
we were just hanging out, had my arm around her,
with just me and my little girl, and I remember
being so in love with her that I looked down
I said, I'll always take care of you. And it
was a special moment for me because it just came out,
you know. So yeah, and to this day, both of
(19:53):
my children were very, very very tight, even though we've
gone through some things of course that all people do.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Guitarist Larry Carlton, If you love conversations with gifted musicians
who played with the biggest names in the business, be
sure to check out my episode with Paul McCartney's drummer
Abe Lboreal Junior.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
You know, for me as a drummer, I'm not so
much focused on what I'm playing. I'm focused on what
they're doing, and I'm listening to them like I get
to be the ultimate audience and just to sit there
and to listen to these incredible musicians play, and you know,
they they end up orbiting so far, and my job
(20:38):
is just to make sure that we still know where
they're tethered to, that we're not all going so far
that we lose the audience.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Here more of my conversation with abe Leboreal Junior at
Here's Thething dot Org. After the Break, Larry Carlton shares
the story of his recovery from a near death experience
and his journey to be able to play music again.
(21:10):
I'm Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the Thing.
Larry Carlton's collaborations with the biggest artists in music had
been bringing down the house since the nineteen sixties, after
over two decades of musical success. Tragically, Larry Carlton was
also the victim of a senseless act of violence in
(21:30):
nineteen ninety eight. Carlton would recover and go on to
start the nonprofit Helping Innocent People. I asked him about
the circumstances surrounding the vicious.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Attack my home in the Hollywood Hills, at my basement
studio Room three thirty five it was called. I was
there to do charts for that evening's sessions, and under
the car port. We had converted to garage into an
(22:01):
office and my manager worked out of that office with
his secretary, so we were self contained at the home.
So yeah, I showed up that afternoon to go downstairs
and do the charts for that evening sessions. And the
entrance door to that office off of the car port
was a jar, and I could see out the window
(22:24):
that there were two young boys and a German shepherd
dog jogging. So I walked over to the door because
it was a jar, and I was going to shut
it so the dog wouldn't come in the office. And
when I got to the door, the boys were right
about entering the carport and I was going to say, hey, guys,
I'm just going to shut the shot me and then
(22:49):
they ran off. And the physical part of what I
remember at that moment, as my left arm went numb.
I thought I was shot in the arm, but I
was shot in the throat and that traumatized all the
nerves to my left arm. So that's how the events started.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And what would you attribute because you'd say, an injury
to that part of the body seems ninety nine percent
it would be fatal for those of it. I don't
understand physiognomy, But what do you attribute to the fact
that you survived a lot of luck.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
The paramedics were right down the hill from my home
and they got the call that there had been a
gun shot wound. Within minutes, the secretary called nine one
one and they were on the way back from another call,
so they just turned and came right up the hill
and they put pressure. You know, I got hidden the carrotid,
(23:54):
so I have a half inch graph in my carotid
artery here on the left side. And they rushed me
to Saint Joseph's, which was what seven eight minutes down
the hill, and both surgeons, the best they had happened
to be there that day, and so that was the start.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, they put.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
The graft in and from there they said, we know
he's a guitar player, and we've looked at the trauma
to his left arm nerves. He will play again, but
we don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
At what level.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That's that's how that part started. And of course, many
many many many months of physical therapy to regenerate the
nerves from the upper part of my arm down in
my fingertips was pretty unbelievable. And then from all that,
it came back with hard work. And I only have
(24:50):
alec You're probably aware, I only have one vocal cord
that functions. So luckily my left vocal cord was over
the midline, so the right cord can touch it and
I can talk. Other than that, I wouldn't be I
would have just died. I wouldn't have been able to
close off. I would have choked to death. So the
in a nutshell, that's the trauma drama of being shot
(25:12):
in the Hollywood Hills. And lastly, the detectives obviously did
their job over the months and months and months, and
the conclusion that they came to was it was a
gang initiation shooting two kids. One of them has to
go out and shoot Joe's citizen, not just Larry Carlton,
but shoot the citizen. The other kid watches. They can
(25:34):
go back and say, yep, he did it, so he
could be They call them, no, no.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I'm sorry, how awful. I'll try traumatizing. Yeah, I traumatize
if they get shot there, of all places, it's like,
I mean, there's a lot of other pleasure you get shot.
Obviously that are from the neck up. That would be problematic.
But my god, God, God bless you that you survived that.
That's amazing. Who's someone you wished you played with from
another era? How far did you miss getting to work
with Sinatra or someone like that?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, I didn't do Sinatra, but did Dean Martin, Sammy
Davis Junior. Because Jimmy Bowen was the producer of Sinatra
and all that stuff, so I was on Jimmy's list,
worked for him all the time. Someone I wish I
could have played one song with live would have been
McCoy tyner. Why because the John Coltrane Quartet influenced my
(26:32):
emotions so much as a young musician, meaning fourteen years old, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen years old, when I heard that group play, I mean,
Coltrane so soulful, and the way McCoy that whole unit
just thrilled me emotionally as a young musician in my prime.
(26:54):
I wish I could have played one blues song with
McCoy tyner live, just to experience it, and I would
have felt completely out of my league. But I wanted
to experience that because he and Coltrane, that thing became
so important to me. I think the reason Alec Humbly
(27:14):
that I can play so melodically and hopefully so soulful
and sometimes so simply is because of my response to
the Coltrane album Ballads. All John Coltrane does is play
the damn song no Licks, no nothing and slay me emotionally.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Now a person you have an important relationship with, it
seems just Robin Ford. Yeah, And how did that come about?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
After I had recorded with Joni Mitchell and with Tom
Scott in the La Express, which was basically the band
that we backed Jony with in the studio for Court
and Spark and Hijira and those albums, and Tom wanted
me to go on the road, and also they wanted
Joe Sample and I to go on the road to
support the Court and Spark album that we did with Jony. Well,
(28:08):
Joe and I were still touring with the Crusaders somewhat
and both still involved in studio works, so we didn't
want to go on the road. Well, Tom Scott knew
about this kid up in San Francisco named Robin Ford,
so they brought Robin in to take my place with
the La Express and the Joni Mitchell tour, and they
(28:31):
asked me to come over to the rehearsal and kind
of meet Robin and show him my setup. And after that,
shortly after that, Robin was playing at that jazz club
I mentioned earlier at Dante's with someone Shit. This kid
played that hell out of the guitar and I went,
oh boy, there's one of those guys. So I wanted
(28:52):
to meet him, invited him to my house. We jammed downstairs,
just the two guitars. I wanted to hear this kid play,
and we became good good friends.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well for a man that played with a range of
people from cass Elliott to Peter Gabriel to Leslie Gore
to James Ingram and Michael Jackson and Jirou and on
and on and on. I just want to say what
a great honor was to get to meet you as
(29:25):
I play music and you're on there and your contribution
to the music you make and you have played every
kind of music I mean is it's just is uncanny.
The range of your talent and the range of your career.
It's just it's it's remarkable. Have you enjoyed it? Of
course you.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Getting one of the most blessed musicians in the world.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And one of the most talented.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thanks Ali, Thank you buddy.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Guitarist Larry Carlton. My next guest. Drumming legend Steve Gadd
has spent a career keeping time for the best of
the best in music. That's Goad on drums playing Sister
Sadie with his band Steve Gadd and Friends from the
twenty ten album Live at the Voce. I wanted to
(30:15):
know when you're hired by heavyweights like Chad Baker, Paul Simon,
Quincy Jones or Gladys Knight, who is in charge of
the studio session.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, it's different. In every situation is a little different.
But it could be the artist, it could be the producer.
A lot most of the time it's it's it's a combination.
You know, we're in there everyone. We're looking for an
agreement the creative process. You know, you can interject what
you feel when the right time is you know what
(30:46):
I mean, everybody's opinion is important. It's just you have
to know the right time to sort of to put it,
you know, to get involved and you know the more
recording I did, the more I got used to do.
In that you learn the ropes, Yeah, and how to
work with people, how to understand what they're you know,
(31:07):
it's tricky when they're asking verbally for something musically, it's
hard to always to understand, you know what I mean.
So that it's a process of getting to know each
other and trust each other, and for me not to
be afraid to try things maybe that I didn't necessarily
come up with, but things that they thought that might work.
(31:30):
And sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But that's the process,
you know, trial and error, just trying to come up
with the agreement.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So you're in the room, you're in the studio with
the whole battalion, or I want you to teach me
about is it people individually because a lot of times
you see performers recording these seminal things as the guy
singing the vocals by himself or she's singing the vocals
by herself. Do you do the drumming by yourself? Sometimes
with cans on and you're listening to the track and
(32:00):
you're drumming and nobody else is there.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing that's happened later on,
you know, the equipment, you can go in by yourself.
They got the tracks already done and you just you know,
try to fit in. But with no other people there.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
How did you feel about that doesn't sound as fun.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well, you know, back in the seventies, but the live
thing was fun for a lot of different reasons, you
know what I mean. There were a lot of different
things going on. But looking back, we spent a lot
of time, you know, going over tracks and if there
was a mistake, you'd have to do a whole other take. Yes,
and they were editing things. But now with the computers,
(32:40):
people can do the guitar and bassed stuff and keyboard stuff,
and then they can do it all separately to a
click track, and.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
They can have you come in I would imagine, and
do like even a snippet. They might say, this little piece, right,
just give us that. We don't need you to do
the whole take.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
They could do that, you know, or And that's one
of the nice things about the way recording is done today.
You don't have to do the whole track again. They
can really go in and just pick and choose what
they want to do and go for that. So time wise,
it works, but it's definitely not as much fun as
it used to.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Be, you know what I mean, but maybe healthier.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Well, it's healthier and more and more time efficient.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I think it's more time official now. At some point,
Steve gadd is this kid from Rochester. He's playing the drums.
He goes and you know his uncle plays the drums.
He's in a big band. You're eleven years old. How
does it start?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Well, in the seventies. My whole life, I've been playing drums,
you know, in grammar school, I started taking lessons, and
then in high school I was in a drum corps,
and I was in the military. I was in the
Army band for three years, five years in music college.
(33:58):
That's all I ever wanted to do. My goal was
to if I could support myself playing music, that was it.
So after the Army I went to New York. Someone
I went to school with Tony Levin bass player. We
were in college together and worked with gap Man, Joni
(34:18):
chuck Manjoni's brother is this, Well, this is at Eastman
and in Rochester, New York with Tony and I were
at Eastman School and music together.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Because you went to Manhattan first.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I went to two years to Manhattan because my grades
weren't really good enough to get in.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
That's a very prestigious school. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, So I got my grades up at Manhattan School
and music transferred back to Eastman, which is in my
hometown Rochester. So not only was I doing things in
school and ensembles and orchestras, but I was working with
Chuck and gap Man Joni, you know, six nights a week,
so there was a lot. I was playing lot. And
(35:01):
I got to New York and a couple of things started.
My father got terminally ill, and my first marriage, you know,
started falling apart. And music was the only thing in
those years that I felt like where I was doing
anything that was good, positive, where I was able to
(35:23):
do something and felt like I was giving people what
they were looking for. It was just perfect timing for me.
I was ready, I was hungry, I had you know,
studied a lot, My reading was good. So music was
the thing that was like my escape from all of
these other things that were just falling apart. Plus I
(35:45):
was getting high and stuff. I was taking cocaine because
a lot of work was coming in.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Was it a struggle to stop or did you stop
pretty riskly. Were we able to control or did it
drag on for a while trying.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It went on for like fifteen years. I was hitting
it and it was not easy to stop, you know.
I ended up in a hospital in Brooklyn, and then
from there I went to Saint Mary's Rehab. My idea
was I'd go and you know, relax for a month
so the heat was off, and then I'd go out
(36:24):
and start hitting it again, you know what I mean.
And something happened in rehab where the second step I
came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could
restore us to sanity. It just dawned on me that
I was completely out of my mind, you know what
I mean. And I had never up until that point,
(36:47):
I thought that everyone else was the cause of my problems.
You know, I could blame it on anybody, and I
was the last person I would look at, you know
what I mean. But when I finally looked at myself
and saw that I was nuts.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Now, eventually you become someone where the phone doesn't stop ringing.
I have a list in front of me. They gave
me a list that has to be twenty pages long
of the tracks that you played on. That's just some
of them. Eventually you become a guy where the phone
doesn't stop ringing everybody you know who can they want
you to comeplay the drums for them. When do you
believe that happened? And why? When do you start to
(37:25):
get into the room with the people who are really
at the top of the game. Who calls you first?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Well, I mean back in those days, Paul Simon was
the first really huge, you know, music celebrity, and Phil
Ramone was producing him, and it's a process of getting
to know each other. But you know, I think I
was the right person for Paul at that time. Right,
(37:52):
wasn't just like a studio guy that did one gendre.
I mean I loved a lot of different genres of music.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
And that's part. Oh yeah, Paul was very diversified then.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Paul, he's always looking for a new way to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
What was the album? The first album you did with them?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I'm still crazy after all these years. The first song
I ever recorded with him was well, what the hell
have a good time?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And when you do something with someone like Paul, I'm
assuming there must be a diversity of people who say
we're going to do this and you do like fifty takes,
and there's people who do three takes. Have you just
seen the gamut and the range of people who like,
let's just do this quickly and we got and I'm happy,
or they're like really really really picky in in detail.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Well, yeah, there's both. I mean, Paul is very picky.
Fagan and Steely Dan they were, you know, really picky too.
You know, it's like they had something in mind that
they wanted, but they didn't know what it Wasn't.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
That's funny, you know what I mean? Yeah, And when
you struggled as an artist and you're with these big people,
now you're with the t you're at the top, and
you stay at the top for quite a while, you know,
you stay there then. I mean, but when you're there
were there people who you would struggle and struggle and
struggle and work and work and work it. And then
when you got it, did they like look at you
(39:12):
and go, God, that's it and they were happy? Or
did they just was it just business and they got
up and they walked down they were like thanks.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
You know what. Back in those days, it was like,
you know, they were happy, they were they.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Was a brotherhood.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Well, it was a brotherhood, and it was about the
It was about the music. You know. It wasn't about
what market we're targeting and things like that. It was
just about they had something they wanted to say that
was important to them and everybody. It was important to
everybody involved, you know, to the engineer or the producer,
(39:47):
to the artists and to the musicians. They studio musicians.
You know, they want to hang in there until we
get to take you know what I mean. They don't
want to give up let it go.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Who are the people you work with? Like, are you
in a room and clapped in plays and you sit
there and go, Jesus Christ, look at this guy, Look
at him? Who did you admire?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
There's many people I admire, Chuck Rainey, Richard T, Cornell Duprie,
all these guys that were on these sessions that you know,
these guys used to work with Aretha and King Curtis
and there was so much history. You know, they had
been a part of writing the book, you know what
I mean. There was so much to learn by having
(40:30):
the opportunity to play with these guys.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I'm assuming you have your drum kit or multiple drum
kits and they take it to the studio, they ship
it for you, and you set it up and everything,
and so you don't play on somebody else's kit.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Most of the time it's not, you know, it's my own,
you know, most of it. Sometimes it's not, But most
of the time it is Kim.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, And your kit that you have now is one
that you found when you've been playing the same kit
for how long?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, this last kit was probably about fifteen twenty years.
You know why I'm playing? Yeah, And what do you
like about it? I like the sizes. I like birch
wood for toms and maple for a bass drum, and
there's a metal snare.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
So every kid out there right now is writing all
this Dad.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know, you know me. Let me tell you something.
There's so many different kinds of equipment out there. I
don't know how anyone would would really know how to choose.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But you didn't become so technically spoiled or whatever where
you walk in and go, oh, fuck, the mike's a Sennheiser,
and I'd rather have whatever. You didn't care.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I let the engineer do that, you know. I do
what I do, and they do what they do. And
I try to work with them, right, you know what
I mean, that's the idea, and not tell them how
to do it, but just let them do what they
do and work together to try and just you know,
make the music happen.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, drummer Steve Gadd, if you're enjoying this conversation, don't
keep it to yourself, Tell a friend and follow Here's
the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you
get your podcasts. When we come back, Steve Gadd shares
how his inescapable talent spared him from serving in Vietnam.
(42:33):
I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing. That's
(43:00):
Steve Gadd and the Gad Gang performing the song Little
Brother live in nineteen eighty eight. Gadd co wrote the
song with Richard T. Steve Gadd was a bit of
a musical prodigy when he picked up his instrument at
the ripe age of four. By eleven, he had played
with the likes of bandleader Dizzy Gillespie. I wanted to
(43:23):
know how he came to sit in with the legendary
trumpeter at such a young age.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Yeah, let me tell you. In Rochester when I was
growing up there was a lot of music going on,
and there was this club called the Ridgecrest in a
small little club, and they brought in Gene Kruper, k Winding,
Dizzy Gillespie, Carmen McCrae, Wow. And they used to have
(43:50):
Sunday afternoon matines you know what I mean, like from
like four to six, and you know sometimes they'd let
people sit in and the matinees and you know, the
artists were so gracious they'd let us kids sit in.
You know, we were kids, We were hungry to you know,
I got a chance to see Gene Krupa and sit
(44:11):
in with them. Growing up in that atmosphere was tremendous.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And there's a scene then in Rochester because people forget
that when Kodak was humming, when everything was film, Rochester
was a very important city.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
You know, it was booming, Kodak, Xerox, bauschan Lam, general dynamics.
You know, there was a lot going on. There was
a lot of music, a lot of clubs, a lot
of music. And this one club brought in the big
names like Dizzy. And because we frequented the place, the
(44:45):
owner of the club would you know, introduce the families
to the artists and you know, let them know that
these kids are serious, you know what I mean. And
Chuck's parents would invite Dizzy and the band over to
our house for spaghetti and stuff. So it was you know,
and and in those days they were the same bands
(45:08):
would come back in, you know, like they so you'd
get to know him. That was that was the circuit,
you know. There were no big venues back then, you know.
And Dizzy gave Chucky a trumpet, you know, one a
trumpet with the bell that went up, and Art Blakey
gave me a symbol. You know. One time, Papa Joe
(45:30):
Jones was playing at the club with Tommy Bryant and
his brother Ray Bryant playing bass, and something happened in
New York to Pop with Joe Jones, kid got in
an accident or something, so he had to leave, and
the owner of the club called my parents and asked
(45:50):
if I could go in and play the night with
Tommy and Ray Bryant. Man, it was like I was,
you know, maybe I was like eleven or twelve years
years old, but you know, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Now were you excited when you were told you were
relieved of combat duty, so you could play the drums
for three years in the army.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Well, you know, in those years, if you weren't in
college or had some kind of deferment, you were going
to end up in Vietnam in the jungle, was Yeah,
And so a lot of guys in music in music college.
During the last year all I did, my teacher, John Beck,
(46:31):
hooked me up with an audition for the Army Field
Band in Fort Mead, Maryland, and I was accepted. And
you know, so you go to basic training and then
you report for duty at Fort Mead and you're in
the States for the whole time. We were the you know,
official touring band for the Army in those years, and
(46:51):
we you know, drive across the States and do concerts
at different high schools, you know, trying to you know,
just promote the Army forces. And so yeah, I was.
I knew I wasn't going to have to if I
took the Army gig, I wasn't going to have to
go to Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Right, So you played your ass off.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Yeah, I played my ass off. But I when I graduated,
I waited to see if I was going to get
my draft papers because the Army Field Band said I
had till October to enlist, you know, and I graduated
in June and July I got my draft papers, so
I just you know, they said, I just enlisted before
(47:34):
I was supposed to report for the draft and avoided,
you know, going to Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Now, modern music, contemporary music for you when you want
to lay down and just sit back and you know,
stare at the rainstorm. What's the music that comforts you.
What's the music you enjoy.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
I used to like to put on Stevie Wonder songs
in the Kia Life, Little Feet, Leon Russell, you know,
Delaney and Bonnie Ray, Charles.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I'm like, give me Nat King Cole.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Oh, Nat King Cole. Well, I love Nat King Call.
I love Louis Armstrong. I listened to a lot of
the old things. Man. They mean a lot to me.
And they always they always get me. They always get me.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, they always get you. Well, listen, let me just
say this to you. I want to say thank you.
You are so humble, You are so you have so
much humility, and you go online and you read about you.
My god, everybody you got all these guys who are
like drum freaks. And music and they're going. Now, let
me show you this thing that Steve Gadd did and
(48:43):
you would never know it from how sweet and how
kind you've been in this interview. I'm very grateful to you.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Well, I was excited to do this, man, thanks for
having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
My thanks to Steve Gadd and Larry. I'll leave you
with a little more of Larry Carlton's brilliance on Steely
Dan's Don't Take Me Alive. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the
thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio imp Sun.
I don't want no where. Cross my old man Bacon agone.
(49:24):
Don't take me alive. I can hold down here all.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
Yes, I cross my own man on.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Don't take me alive, don't
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Pay me alive.
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. That is, of course, Don't Take
(00:46):
Me Alive, from Steely Dan's nineteen seventy six album The
Royal Scam.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I Know you're out there with raises, your eyes and
your back alone.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
The song features the guitar stylings of Larry Carlton. My
guests today are two genius musicians whose artistry has contributed
to some of the most memorable songs of the sixties, seventies,
and eighties, leaving an indelible mark on the music world.
Steve Gadd is one of the most influential drummers of
(01:21):
all time, known for bridging jazz, rock and blues. Gadd's
artistry can be heard on songs like Paul Simon's Fifty
Ways to Leave Your Lover and Steely Dan's Asia. This
is Steve Gadd with his band The Gad Gang playing
(01:42):
Things Ain't What They Used to Be from the group's
nineteen eighty eight album Here and Now. Steve Gadd has
been a studio musician for countless artists from Carly Simon
to Aretha Franklin, and has toured with Eric Clapton, James Taylor,
Joe Cocker, Maynard Firms, Ferguson, Paul Simon, and many many more.
(02:03):
But first my conversation with four time Grammy winner Larry Carlton.
That's him playing his song Nightcrawler from his self titled
nineteen seventy eight solo album. Carlton is a jazz and
(02:27):
rock guitarist who has played on over three thousand recording
sessions with everyone from Barbara Streisand and Sammy Davis Junior
to Michael Jackson and Joni Mitchell. Among the songs he
is most famous for is Steely Dan's Kid Charlemagne, which
Rolling Stone named as one of the best guitar solos
(02:47):
in rock music. Larry Carlton is also a member of
legendary rock group The Crusaders, and even co wrote the
theme songs for the TV shows Hill Street Blues and
Who's the Boss. If that wasn't enough, the prolific guitarist
has enjoyed an impressive solo career. I was curious how
a musician that has offered such extraordinary support to others
(03:12):
came to prioritize his own music and write his own songs.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I didn't start writing songs until I had a record deal.
I didn't pursue being a solo artist in the seventies.
You know, I was so busy doing sessions, and that
started early in nineteen seventy and by nineteen seventy seven,
I was already kind of burned out. I was doing,
you know, five hundred sessions a year, charging double scale
(03:40):
for all of those, so I couldn't charge any more money,
and I was just getting kind of burned out. And
in my teen years, I was a club player. I
played jazz in a club and that was my passion.
So I just started telling everybody that was calling me
for sessions in nineteen seventy seven, I'm not doing sessions anymore.
(04:01):
I'm going to start producing and just playing. So I
took a gig in North Hollywood at a jazz club
on Tuesday nights, and I was approached by a record
producer from CBS, and he said, you thought about making
a record, And that's how my solo career really started,
by an offer that I wasn't looking for.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So when you say about being burned out on the
sessions thing, I would imagine that a time comes, the
phone rings and you hang up the phone and go,
oh my god, like, this is how you know you've
made it. This is how you know you're at the
upper echelon of the music business because it's Quincy Jones
or whoever's on the phone where you sit there and go,
(04:45):
my god, look at where I'm going. Was there a
moment like that for you?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Mostly early in my career. Pretty soon you get used
to the client tile you're working with and it just
becomes a daily Oh yeah, I got a session from
Steely Dan, I got a session next week from Quincy,
and it becomes the norm. But early in my career, yes,
there were those days of realizing, my lord, look at
(05:10):
my date book for the next three months, I'm busy,
thankful and busy.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And people that you were just super admiring of, like
when you're in the room with them and you're saying,
this is fun. I mean they're great musicians and great artists.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And yeah, that was That was another thing I realized.
To get to play with some of the world's greatest
musicians every day just raises the level that you already
have an aptitude for because you're surrounded by that quality.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
You know, now, your mother, I read, had a guitar
laying around and she played guitar, and you picked up
the guitar when you were about six years old. Yeah, yeah,
now fooling around with a guitar and playing with a
guitar like a toy. And then many many people put
it down and they never pursue it. And then there's
(05:57):
people who something happens. Is the nature or nurture? Does
a person pick up a guitar and you've either got
it or you don't? Or can you cajole people into
becoming more exploring their musicianship? Which do you think it is?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I think it's both, you do, and I've used the analogy.
I mean, if a kid can shoot baskets at four
years old with his dad out in the driveway and
another kid down the block can't even get the ball,
you know there's an aptitude waiting to be developed, I think,
and the nurturing gives you that chance to go for
it if you have the apptitude.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
And that was my case. Did your kids have any
of that aptitude? Did it become the family business for
either one of your kids or now? Yeah? Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
My son Travis Carlton, he got the gift when he
was little he would sit on my lap while I
was at the mixing console, just doing rough mixes in
my studio, and his body language, already at three years old,
was in time with the music. He's a bass player.
Right out of high school, he went to Musicians Institute
(07:05):
in la And since then that's been gosh, twenty three
years ago. Now he tours the world with me, and
he tours the world with Robin Ford, and he tours
the world with Scott Henderson, great guitar players, and just
last year he was asked to join Steve Gadd's band.
So Travis got the gift.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You were born in nineteen forty eight, Yes, and when
you're coming up, I'm assuming that someone who's as musically
gifted as you is absorbing music early on. What was
the music you were listening to in the fifties.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I can remember my grandmother having Perry Como records,
Dean Martin records, So yeah, in the early fifties that
was the music on the radio. And by the mid
fifties then doo wop was coming, rock and roll was
being explored on the radio. So I was hearing all
(08:03):
of that also, And yeah, sure, sure, Chuck Berry, that
but in Los Angeles, and it was a local television show.
Every Saturday night, there was a country Western TV show
called The town Hall Party. And the guitar player on
(08:23):
that show was Joe Maphis, and he was the fastest
damn guitar player you ever heard. And of course as
a kid, you're just you know, you can't believe it,
and so it's inspiring. I got to see that on
Saturday nights. So a lot of different kinds of music
I was listening to while starting to take guitar lessons.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Now, in my business, there's a similar component where you
go to work for Spielberg and you show up and
you just say yes, sir, no, sir, I'm in a salute.
Here's a guy that knows exactly what he wants from
the first frame to the last frame, and you're there
and you just want to say, tell me what you
want me to do to help you make your movie. Now,
other films I do with writer directors who are more new,
(09:06):
they want your input. Does that chasm exist in your business?
Two people who were very hands on and then people
will sit there and say, you tell me what you
want to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I was fortunate that after recording with The Crusaders in
the early seventies when I was twenty three, and then
a number of other hits.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right after that.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
The producer started calling me and leaving the paper blank.
They wanted me to create something on their production that
maybe they would not have thought of. So I was
very fortunate that I had that kind of freedom.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Who pushed you the hardesty, even when you were younger,
and they knew they were in a room, they were
in a studio with a young guy. I don't mean
it in an abusive way. I don't mean it in
a pejorative way. Who really pushed you, producer and helped you.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
What comes to mind is in late sixty nine, twenty
one got one of my first sessions for a film
call on Universal, probably subbing for some time. My name
was on the list, and then they couldn't get the
guy they wanted for the afternoon session. So I walk
into the session and it's all the heavy cats and
(10:17):
it's a Quincy Jones. He's doing Fat Albert for Cosby.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
The background music.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well, what Quincy would do with this is he had
the score for small band I don't know, three horns,
blah blah blah, we would do a take. Maybe the
guitar part was just chords, junk NK, nothing important. But
then what Quincy would do is say, all right now
on this one guitar take the flute part. Flutes take
(10:47):
that he would reorchestrate it on the spot. So, all
of a sudden, twenty one years old, walking into this
heavy thing and they're going to hand me the flute part,
pushed me, not knowing that that was really something I
had never done before. Well, I made it. I made
the parts, did a good job. Years and years later,
(11:11):
after working off and on with Quincy, I asked him
about that date. I said, I remember my first date.
It was fat Albert blah blah blah and blah blah,
and I said I walked out of there scared to death.
He said, all I remember is you did a good job.
In other words, he was care maybe out the guitar
player playing the flute part. But I never forgot that
(11:33):
because it showed me the challenges that could come up
as a session player.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
When you go into a room and you do what
you do, is it really all the same? Meaning? Music
is music, and musicians have a certain language and a
certain code, and it doesn't matter if it's Neil Diamond
or you know, James Ingram, Sure, you know Michael Jackson.
Is it really there's an essential base of it that's
(11:59):
just the same whoever you work with.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, the approach is the same. Like I said, they're
expecting many of us in the rhythm section, especially to
come up with parts to enhance their song. And you
take a great producer arranger like Quincy Jones. When I
got the call to play on Michael Jackson's She's Out
of My Life. I got to the studio and Michael
(12:22):
had already cut his vocal and Greg phill and Gaines's
keyboard part was already cut, and that's all there was.
And they wanted my guitar to somehow enhance this small production.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
So I did.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I did what I liked, and then Quincy, I know
one part I played I run through and Quincy looked
over at Bruce Swedeen, the engineer, and he said will
it print? And Bruce said it's too low. So the
engineer's input was he knew when he went to mix
that record my guitar part that I had felt was
(12:57):
in the wrong range. Said okay. Quincy said, okay, try
some other things that aren't so low. So that kind
of collaboration off of my creativity to their input made
that final product. They let you find your way, yes,
but with their guidance.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Right. Some of my favorite music that you have played
is with Steely Dan. I love Nightfly and you played
on Nightfly. Yeah, I love that album. But when you're
with a duo like that, is there one of them
that's more Becker is renowned as being a very quiet guy,
you know, he's not Fagan, and Fagan was much more
(13:38):
colorful and much more articulate. And they wrote the songs together.
But when you were in the studio with them, did
they both contributed? They both have somebody to say about
they want what they wanted you to do, or one
person took the lead.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I would say they were like brothers, and I'm thinking now,
not on the tracking dates, but when I would be
over dubbing guitar solo, they would listen and react and
one guy would say, oh, let's try blah blah blah
blah blah, and maybe next time it would be Donald's.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Saying I really liked that part right.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
There, and they would collaborate. It was amazing in that
while we were doing the tracking dates. Donald was a
little more involved because he was more sophisticated harmonically at
the keyboard when they wrote those tunes, so he could
interpret and get more involved in chord voicinges and things
like that. But I'm sure when they were collaborating writing
(14:29):
the tunes, the two of them together, their brains just
went nuts and came up with those great songs.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Well, I mean, there's no song I know of more
than Don't Take Me Alive and the guitar playing you did?
I mean I listened to that. I mean I get
a chill.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I didn't tell this story for many years, but when
The Royal Scam by Steely Dan did come out, there
was a review in Rolling Stone raving about my Kid
Charlemagne solo. Yeah, and I hadn't thought of that song
or that album since the session, and so got the record,
put it on, listened to Kid Charlemagne with my then wife,
(15:08):
and at the end of the song, I looked at
her and I never forgot this was so honest, I said.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
It just sounds like me.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I mean really, so, I'm glad the world reacted the
way they did to it. But I didn't know it.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
How many recordings do you think you did with.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Stealing that Royal Scam? Asia will include Nightfly in there
with Donald Gaucho was an interesting one. They cut that
in New York and I wasn't involved at all. But
when the record came out again, reviews were saying Larry
Carlton's solo on Third World Man. I thought I didn't
(15:48):
play on that album. So this story was told to
me later that the second engineer had erased one of
their masters by accident and they needed one one more
song for the Gaucho album. So they went back into
the archives of the Royal Scam and we had cut
Third World Man, And that's how I ended up on Gaucho.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
There was a lot of self destructive behavior going onto
the music business in the seventies, a lot of people
that were self immolating with drugs and alcohol, and you know,
very talented people who ended up dead. Now in your business,
whether it's you or anyone else, do you find yourself
sometimes sitting there going I'll pass. I don't necessarily want
(16:33):
to go into the studio with that person because they're
a mess and you're not quite sure you want to work.
Was there any of that for you were there people
you came across again, no names, but people you thought,
I'm not so interested.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yes, and I have named this name before, and I
think it's appropriate. Phil Spector's office called me for five
nights of recording with John Lennon when he was producing
him and the other musicians, a couple of them, Leon Russell, myself.
Bottom line, we get to the studio and first, let's
(17:08):
say a six pm session call. Well, nobody showed up
Phil or John until like nine thirty or ten, and
then we went out and we were going to cut
the old rock and roll song Boney Maroney. Well, I
knew that was when I was a kid. I played
Bonie Morony. But this was at a bad time for John,
(17:29):
first time I'd ever met him. So he's sitting next
to me and he's calling the chord changes to Bonie Maroney. Well,
there are three and I played it as a kid.
So the bottom line was not a good time for John.
The session was a drag. We waited four hours plus
to play Bonye Marony. When I left the session, I
(17:49):
drove Leon Russell back to the Sunset Marquis and I said, man,
that was a drag. And with his Oklahoma accent. He said,
I didn't come back to Tulsa in the morning, so
I got home and immediately just went to my call
and canceled the rest of the week for Phil Spector's thing.
I didn't want to sit through that for five nights
(18:12):
a drunk artist, a late start, So it was a
bad experience. And I guess some months later, I don't
know how many months later they did end up getting
that album finished, but I didn't participate.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Right right, Well, thank you for sharing that. And it's
an interesting thing where people who have that problem like
in my business, you know, I mean, it's very different.
I think of music as as I always say, acting
is what you do when you have no musical talents.
You were married and you have two children. Yes, And
(18:46):
during the height of your career you were living where
in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Hollywood Hills, right above the Pilgrimage, right.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
And the peripatetic nature of your business was that tough
on your family You're traveling all the time.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Say yes, my first child, Katie Bug, she was born
in nineteen eighty, so I was already ten years into
my session career and also moving out, you know, moving
out of the session scene into the solo scene. So yeah,
I started traveling more and more, and I would say
it took a toll for sure, which you'll hear that
(19:22):
story from a lot of players.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I think sure.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I can remember when Katie was maybe two years old.
I was sitting out on the driveway with her.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
This is one of.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Those things that a dad never forgets, you know, and
we were just hanging out, had my arm around her,
with just me and my little girl, and I remember
being so in love with her that I looked down
I said, I'll always take care of you. And it
was a special moment for me because it just came out,
you know. So yeah, and to this day, both of
(19:53):
my children were very, very very tight, even though we've
gone through some things of course that all people do.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Guitarist Larry Carlton, If you love conversations with gifted musicians
who played with the biggest names in the business, be
sure to check out my episode with Paul McCartney's drummer
Abe Lboreal Junior.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
You know, for me as a drummer, I'm not so
much focused on what I'm playing. I'm focused on what
they're doing, and I'm listening to them like I get
to be the ultimate audience and just to sit there
and to listen to these incredible musicians play, and you know,
they they end up orbiting so far, and my job
(20:38):
is just to make sure that we still know where
they're tethered to, that we're not all going so far
that we lose the audience.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Here more of my conversation with abe Leboreal Junior at
Here's Thething dot Org. After the Break, Larry Carlton shares
the story of his recovery from a near death experience
and his journey to be able to play music again.
(21:10):
I'm Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the Thing.
Larry Carlton's collaborations with the biggest artists in music had
been bringing down the house since the nineteen sixties, after
over two decades of musical success. Tragically, Larry Carlton was
also the victim of a senseless act of violence in
(21:30):
nineteen ninety eight. Carlton would recover and go on to
start the nonprofit Helping Innocent People. I asked him about
the circumstances surrounding the vicious.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Attack my home in the Hollywood Hills, at my basement
studio Room three thirty five it was called. I was
there to do charts for that evening's sessions, and under
the car port. We had converted to garage into an
(22:01):
office and my manager worked out of that office with
his secretary, so we were self contained at the home.
So yeah, I showed up that afternoon to go downstairs
and do the charts for that evening sessions. And the
entrance door to that office off of the car port
was a jar, and I could see out the window
(22:24):
that there were two young boys and a German shepherd
dog jogging. So I walked over to the door because
it was a jar, and I was going to shut
it so the dog wouldn't come in the office. And
when I got to the door, the boys were right
about entering the carport and I was going to say, hey, guys,
I'm just going to shut the shot me and then
(22:49):
they ran off. And the physical part of what I
remember at that moment, as my left arm went numb.
I thought I was shot in the arm, but I
was shot in the throat and that traumatized all the
nerves to my left arm. So that's how the events started.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And what would you attribute because you'd say, an injury
to that part of the body seems ninety nine percent
it would be fatal for those of it. I don't
understand physiognomy, But what do you attribute to the fact
that you survived a lot of luck.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
The paramedics were right down the hill from my home
and they got the call that there had been a
gun shot wound. Within minutes, the secretary called nine one
one and they were on the way back from another call,
so they just turned and came right up the hill
and they put pressure. You know, I got hidden the carrotid,
(23:54):
so I have a half inch graph in my carotid
artery here on the left side. And they rushed me
to Saint Joseph's, which was what seven eight minutes down
the hill, and both surgeons, the best they had happened
to be there that day, and so that was the start.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, they put.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
The graft in and from there they said, we know
he's a guitar player, and we've looked at the trauma
to his left arm nerves. He will play again, but
we don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
At what level.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
That's that's how that part started. And of course, many
many many many months of physical therapy to regenerate the
nerves from the upper part of my arm down in
my fingertips was pretty unbelievable. And then from all that,
it came back with hard work. And I only have
(24:50):
alec You're probably aware, I only have one vocal cord
that functions. So luckily my left vocal cord was over
the midline, so the right cord can touch it and
I can talk. Other than that, I wouldn't be I
would have just died. I wouldn't have been able to
close off. I would have choked to death. So the
in a nutshell, that's the trauma drama of being shot
(25:12):
in the Hollywood Hills. And lastly, the detectives obviously did
their job over the months and months and months, and
the conclusion that they came to was it was a
gang initiation shooting two kids. One of them has to
go out and shoot Joe's citizen, not just Larry Carlton,
but shoot the citizen. The other kid watches. They can
(25:34):
go back and say, yep, he did it, so he
could be They call them, no, no.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
I'm sorry, how awful. I'll try traumatizing. Yeah, I traumatize
if they get shot there, of all places, it's like,
I mean, there's a lot of other pleasure you get shot.
Obviously that are from the neck up. That would be problematic.
But my god, God, God bless you that you survived that.
That's amazing. Who's someone you wished you played with from
another era? How far did you miss getting to work
with Sinatra or someone like that?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, I didn't do Sinatra, but did Dean Martin, Sammy
Davis Junior. Because Jimmy Bowen was the producer of Sinatra
and all that stuff, so I was on Jimmy's list,
worked for him all the time. Someone I wish I
could have played one song with live would have been
McCoy tyner. Why because the John Coltrane Quartet influenced my
(26:32):
emotions so much as a young musician, meaning fourteen years old, thirteen, fourteen,
fifteen years old, when I heard that group play, I mean,
Coltrane so soulful, and the way McCoy that whole unit
just thrilled me emotionally as a young musician in my prime.
(26:54):
I wish I could have played one blues song with
McCoy tyner live, just to experience it, and I would
have felt completely out of my league. But I wanted
to experience that because he and Coltrane, that thing became
so important to me. I think the reason Alec Humbly
(27:14):
that I can play so melodically and hopefully so soulful
and sometimes so simply is because of my response to
the Coltrane album Ballads. All John Coltrane does is play
the damn song no Licks, no nothing and slay me emotionally.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Now a person you have an important relationship with, it
seems just Robin Ford. Yeah, And how did that come about?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
After I had recorded with Joni Mitchell and with Tom
Scott in the La Express, which was basically the band
that we backed Jony with in the studio for Court
and Spark and Hijira and those albums, and Tom wanted
me to go on the road, and also they wanted
Joe Sample and I to go on the road to
support the Court and Spark album that we did with Jony. Well,
(28:08):
Joe and I were still touring with the Crusaders somewhat
and both still involved in studio works, so we didn't
want to go on the road. Well, Tom Scott knew
about this kid up in San Francisco named Robin Ford,
so they brought Robin in to take my place with
the La Express and the Joni Mitchell tour, and they
(28:31):
asked me to come over to the rehearsal and kind
of meet Robin and show him my setup. And after that,
shortly after that, Robin was playing at that jazz club
I mentioned earlier at Dante's with someone Shit. This kid
played that hell out of the guitar and I went,
oh boy, there's one of those guys. So I wanted
(28:52):
to meet him, invited him to my house. We jammed downstairs,
just the two guitars. I wanted to hear this kid play,
and we became good good friends.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Well for a man that played with a range of
people from cass Elliott to Peter Gabriel to Leslie Gore
to James Ingram and Michael Jackson and Jirou and on
and on and on. I just want to say what
a great honor was to get to meet you as
(29:25):
I play music and you're on there and your contribution
to the music you make and you have played every
kind of music I mean is it's just is uncanny.
The range of your talent and the range of your career.
It's just it's it's remarkable. Have you enjoyed it? Of
course you.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Getting one of the most blessed musicians in the world.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And one of the most talented.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thanks Ali, Thank you buddy.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Guitarist Larry Carlton. My next guest. Drumming legend Steve Gadd
has spent a career keeping time for the best of
the best in music. That's Goad on drums playing Sister
Sadie with his band Steve Gadd and Friends from the
twenty ten album Live at the Voce. I wanted to
(30:15):
know when you're hired by heavyweights like Chad Baker, Paul Simon,
Quincy Jones or Gladys Knight, who is in charge of
the studio session.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, it's different. In every situation is a little different.
But it could be the artist, it could be the producer.
A lot most of the time it's it's it's a combination.
You know, we're in there everyone. We're looking for an
agreement the creative process. You know, you can interject what
you feel when the right time is you know what
(30:46):
I mean, everybody's opinion is important. It's just you have
to know the right time to sort of to put it,
you know, to get involved and you know the more
recording I did, the more I got used to do.
In that you learn the ropes, Yeah, and how to
work with people, how to understand what they're you know,
(31:07):
it's tricky when they're asking verbally for something musically, it's
hard to always to understand, you know what I mean.
So that it's a process of getting to know each
other and trust each other, and for me not to
be afraid to try things maybe that I didn't necessarily
come up with, but things that they thought that might work.
(31:30):
And sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But that's the process,
you know, trial and error, just trying to come up
with the agreement.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So you're in the room, you're in the studio with
the whole battalion, or I want you to teach me
about is it people individually because a lot of times
you see performers recording these seminal things as the guy
singing the vocals by himself or she's singing the vocals
by herself. Do you do the drumming by yourself? Sometimes
with cans on and you're listening to the track and
(32:00):
you're drumming and nobody else is there.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing that's happened later on,
you know, the equipment, you can go in by yourself.
They got the tracks already done and you just you know,
try to fit in. But with no other people there.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
How did you feel about that doesn't sound as fun.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well, you know, back in the seventies, but the live
thing was fun for a lot of different reasons, you
know what I mean. There were a lot of different
things going on. But looking back, we spent a lot
of time, you know, going over tracks and if there
was a mistake, you'd have to do a whole other take. Yes,
and they were editing things. But now with the computers,
(32:40):
people can do the guitar and bassed stuff and keyboard stuff,
and then they can do it all separately to a
click track, and.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
They can have you come in I would imagine, and
do like even a snippet. They might say, this little piece, right,
just give us that. We don't need you to do
the whole take.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
They could do that, you know, or And that's one
of the nice things about the way recording is done today.
You don't have to do the whole track again. They
can really go in and just pick and choose what
they want to do and go for that. So time wise,
it works, but it's definitely not as much fun as
it used to.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Be, you know what I mean, but maybe healthier.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Well, it's healthier and more and more time efficient.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I think it's more time official now. At some point,
Steve gadd is this kid from Rochester. He's playing the drums.
He goes and you know his uncle plays the drums.
He's in a big band. You're eleven years old. How
does it start?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Well, in the seventies. My whole life, I've been playing drums,
you know, in grammar school, I started taking lessons, and
then in high school I was in a drum corps,
and I was in the military. I was in the
Army band for three years, five years in music college.
(33:58):
That's all I ever wanted to do. My goal was
to if I could support myself playing music, that was it.
So after the Army I went to New York. Someone
I went to school with Tony Levin bass player. We
were in college together and worked with gap Man, Joni
(34:18):
chuck Manjoni's brother is this, Well, this is at Eastman
and in Rochester, New York with Tony and I were
at Eastman School and music together.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Because you went to Manhattan first.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I went to two years to Manhattan because my grades
weren't really good enough to get in.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
That's a very prestigious school. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, So I got my grades up at Manhattan School
and music transferred back to Eastman, which is in my
hometown Rochester. So not only was I doing things in
school and ensembles and orchestras, but I was working with
Chuck and gap Man Joni, you know, six nights a week,
so there was a lot. I was playing lot. And
(35:01):
I got to New York and a couple of things started.
My father got terminally ill, and my first marriage, you know,
started falling apart. And music was the only thing in
those years that I felt like where I was doing
anything that was good, positive, where I was able to
(35:23):
do something and felt like I was giving people what
they were looking for. It was just perfect timing for me.
I was ready, I was hungry, I had you know,
studied a lot, My reading was good. So music was
the thing that was like my escape from all of
these other things that were just falling apart. Plus I
(35:45):
was getting high and stuff. I was taking cocaine because
a lot of work was coming in.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Was it a struggle to stop or did you stop
pretty riskly. Were we able to control or did it
drag on for a while trying.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It went on for like fifteen years. I was hitting
it and it was not easy to stop, you know.
I ended up in a hospital in Brooklyn, and then
from there I went to Saint Mary's Rehab. My idea
was I'd go and you know, relax for a month
so the heat was off, and then I'd go out
(36:24):
and start hitting it again, you know what I mean.
And something happened in rehab where the second step I
came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could
restore us to sanity. It just dawned on me that
I was completely out of my mind, you know what
I mean. And I had never up until that point,
(36:47):
I thought that everyone else was the cause of my problems.
You know, I could blame it on anybody, and I
was the last person I would look at, you know
what I mean. But when I finally looked at myself
and saw that I was nuts.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Now, eventually you become someone where the phone doesn't stop ringing.
I have a list in front of me. They gave
me a list that has to be twenty pages long
of the tracks that you played on. That's just some
of them. Eventually you become a guy where the phone
doesn't stop ringing everybody you know who can they want
you to comeplay the drums for them. When do you
believe that happened? And why? When do you start to
(37:25):
get into the room with the people who are really
at the top of the game. Who calls you first?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Well, I mean back in those days, Paul Simon was
the first really huge, you know, music celebrity, and Phil
Ramone was producing him, and it's a process of getting
to know each other. But you know, I think I
was the right person for Paul at that time. Right,
(37:52):
wasn't just like a studio guy that did one gendre.
I mean I loved a lot of different genres of music.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
And that's part. Oh yeah, Paul was very diversified then.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Paul, he's always looking for a new way to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
What was the album? The first album you did with them?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I'm still crazy after all these years. The first song
I ever recorded with him was well, what the hell
have a good time?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And when you do something with someone like Paul, I'm
assuming there must be a diversity of people who say
we're going to do this and you do like fifty takes,
and there's people who do three takes. Have you just
seen the gamut and the range of people who like,
let's just do this quickly and we got and I'm happy,
or they're like really really really picky in in detail.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Well, yeah, there's both. I mean, Paul is very picky.
Fagan and Steely Dan they were, you know, really picky too.
You know, it's like they had something in mind that
they wanted, but they didn't know what it Wasn't.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
That's funny, you know what I mean? Yeah, And when
you struggled as an artist and you're with these big people,
now you're with the t you're at the top, and
you stay at the top for quite a while, you know,
you stay there then. I mean, but when you're there
were there people who you would struggle and struggle and
struggle and work and work and work it. And then
when you got it, did they like look at you
(39:12):
and go, God, that's it and they were happy? Or
did they just was it just business and they got
up and they walked down they were like thanks.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
You know what. Back in those days, it was like,
you know, they were happy, they were they.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Was a brotherhood.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Well, it was a brotherhood, and it was about the
It was about the music. You know. It wasn't about
what market we're targeting and things like that. It was
just about they had something they wanted to say that
was important to them and everybody. It was important to
everybody involved, you know, to the engineer or the producer,
(39:47):
to the artists and to the musicians. They studio musicians.
You know, they want to hang in there until we
get to take you know what I mean. They don't
want to give up let it go.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Who are the people you work with? Like, are you
in a room and clapped in plays and you sit
there and go, Jesus Christ, look at this guy, Look
at him? Who did you admire?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
There's many people I admire, Chuck Rainey, Richard T, Cornell Duprie,
all these guys that were on these sessions that you know,
these guys used to work with Aretha and King Curtis
and there was so much history. You know, they had
been a part of writing the book, you know what
I mean. There was so much to learn by having
(40:30):
the opportunity to play with these guys.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I'm assuming you have your drum kit or multiple drum
kits and they take it to the studio, they ship
it for you, and you set it up and everything,
and so you don't play on somebody else's kit.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Most of the time it's not, you know, it's my own,
you know, most of it. Sometimes it's not, But most
of the time it is Kim.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah, And your kit that you have now is one
that you found when you've been playing the same kit
for how long?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, this last kit was probably about fifteen twenty years.
You know why I'm playing? Yeah, And what do you
like about it? I like the sizes. I like birch
wood for toms and maple for a bass drum, and
there's a metal snare.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
So every kid out there right now is writing all
this Dad.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know, you know me. Let me tell you something.
There's so many different kinds of equipment out there. I
don't know how anyone would would really know how to choose.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But you didn't become so technically spoiled or whatever where
you walk in and go, oh, fuck, the mike's a Sennheiser,
and I'd rather have whatever. You didn't care.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
I let the engineer do that, you know. I do
what I do, and they do what they do. And
I try to work with them, right, you know what
I mean, that's the idea, and not tell them how
to do it, but just let them do what they
do and work together to try and just you know,
make the music happen.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, drummer Steve Gadd, if you're enjoying this conversation, don't
keep it to yourself, Tell a friend and follow Here's
the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you
get your podcasts. When we come back, Steve Gadd shares
how his inescapable talent spared him from serving in Vietnam.
(42:33):
I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing. That's
(43:00):
Steve Gadd and the Gad Gang performing the song Little
Brother live in nineteen eighty eight. Gadd co wrote the
song with Richard T. Steve Gadd was a bit of
a musical prodigy when he picked up his instrument at
the ripe age of four. By eleven, he had played
with the likes of bandleader Dizzy Gillespie. I wanted to
(43:23):
know how he came to sit in with the legendary
trumpeter at such a young age.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Yeah, let me tell you. In Rochester when I was
growing up there was a lot of music going on,
and there was this club called the Ridgecrest in a
small little club, and they brought in Gene Kruper, k Winding,
Dizzy Gillespie, Carmen McCrae, Wow. And they used to have
(43:50):
Sunday afternoon matines you know what I mean, like from
like four to six, and you know sometimes they'd let
people sit in and the matinees and you know, the
artists were so gracious they'd let us kids sit in.
You know, we were kids, We were hungry to you know,
I got a chance to see Gene Krupa and sit
(44:11):
in with them. Growing up in that atmosphere was tremendous.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And there's a scene then in Rochester because people forget
that when Kodak was humming, when everything was film, Rochester
was a very important city.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
You know, it was booming, Kodak, Xerox, bauschan Lam, general dynamics.
You know, there was a lot going on. There was
a lot of music, a lot of clubs, a lot
of music. And this one club brought in the big
names like Dizzy. And because we frequented the place, the
(44:45):
owner of the club would you know, introduce the families
to the artists and you know, let them know that
these kids are serious, you know what I mean. And
Chuck's parents would invite Dizzy and the band over to
our house for spaghetti and stuff. So it was you know,
and and in those days they were the same bands
(45:08):
would come back in, you know, like they so you'd
get to know him. That was that was the circuit,
you know. There were no big venues back then, you know.
And Dizzy gave Chucky a trumpet, you know, one a
trumpet with the bell that went up, and Art Blakey
gave me a symbol. You know. One time, Papa Joe
(45:30):
Jones was playing at the club with Tommy Bryant and
his brother Ray Bryant playing bass, and something happened in
New York to Pop with Joe Jones, kid got in
an accident or something, so he had to leave, and
the owner of the club called my parents and asked
(45:50):
if I could go in and play the night with
Tommy and Ray Bryant. Man, it was like I was,
you know, maybe I was like eleven or twelve years
years old, but you know, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Now were you excited when you were told you were
relieved of combat duty, so you could play the drums
for three years in the army.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Well, you know, in those years, if you weren't in
college or had some kind of deferment, you were going
to end up in Vietnam in the jungle, was Yeah,
And so a lot of guys in music in music college.
During the last year all I did, my teacher, John Beck,
(46:31):
hooked me up with an audition for the Army Field
Band in Fort Mead, Maryland, and I was accepted. And
you know, so you go to basic training and then
you report for duty at Fort Mead and you're in
the States for the whole time. We were the you know,
official touring band for the Army in those years, and
(46:51):
we you know, drive across the States and do concerts
at different high schools, you know, trying to you know,
just promote the Army forces. And so yeah, I was.
I knew I wasn't going to have to if I
took the Army gig, I wasn't going to have to
go to Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Right, So you played your ass off.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
Yeah, I played my ass off. But I when I graduated,
I waited to see if I was going to get
my draft papers because the Army Field Band said I
had till October to enlist, you know, and I graduated
in June and July I got my draft papers, so
I just you know, they said, I just enlisted before
(47:34):
I was supposed to report for the draft and avoided,
you know, going to Vietnam.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Now, modern music, contemporary music for you when you want
to lay down and just sit back and you know,
stare at the rainstorm. What's the music that comforts you.
What's the music you enjoy.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
I used to like to put on Stevie Wonder songs
in the Kia Life, Little Feet, Leon Russell, you know,
Delaney and Bonnie Ray, Charles.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
I'm like, give me Nat King Cole.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Oh, Nat King Cole. Well, I love Nat King Call.
I love Louis Armstrong. I listened to a lot of
the old things. Man. They mean a lot to me.
And they always they always get me. They always get me.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, they always get you. Well, listen, let me just
say this to you. I want to say thank you.
You are so humble, You are so you have so
much humility, and you go online and you read about you.
My god, everybody you got all these guys who are
like drum freaks. And music and they're going. Now, let
me show you this thing that Steve Gadd did and
(48:43):
you would never know it from how sweet and how
kind you've been in this interview. I'm very grateful to you.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Well, I was excited to do this, man, thanks for
having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
My thanks to Steve Gadd and Larry. I'll leave you
with a little more of Larry Carlton's brilliance on Steely
Dan's Don't Take Me Alive. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the
thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio imp Sun.
I don't want no where. Cross my old man Bacon agone.
(49:24):
Don't take me alive. I can hold down here all.
Speaker 4 (49:36):
Yes, I cross my own man on.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Don't take me alive, don't
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Pay me alive.
Host
Alec Baldwin
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