August 13, 2024 • 45 mins
Our staff picks continue at Here’s The Thing, where throughout the summer, members of our team select their favorite interviews from the archives. This week, we revisit Alec’s 2021 interview with actress Marilu Henner. The Golden-Globe winner is known for a lot of things, from her groundbreaking role as Elaine Nardo on Taxi to her New York Times bestselling books on health and wellness to her amazing, nearly one-of-a-kind memory. But what shines through in every story, joke, and answer she gives Alec is her positivity and joy. Henner is someone who, at every turn, has chosen her happiness, and she’s eager to share her secrets for creating an optimistic outlook with everyone.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's
the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer, and that means
it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing, where
the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in
our summer staff picks series first up as Engineer Frank Imperial.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thanks Alec, it didn't take long for me to remember
one of my very favorite episodes. Mary Lou Henner is
an actress and author, Broadway star and Golden Globe winner,
but she can also remember every detail of her life
since childhood, down to what she did, what she wore,
and even what the weather was on any given day
(00:43):
in her history. There are less than one hundred people
in the world with this incredible type of memory, and
here's Alex's twenty twenty one conversation with one of them.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
People have different definitions of what makes a star. Is
it raw talent, beauty or is it simply an X factor,
a certain ineffable quality. Whatever it is, Mary Lou Henner
has it, and she has it in spades. Singer, dancer, actor,
and wellness expert, Henner is a multi talented performer who
(01:21):
is also simply a joy to be around. She's like
a Christmas tree and lights up every room she's in.
She's starred in over a dozen films, seven Broadway shows,
and two smash hit sitcoms. She played Ava Evans Newton
on Evening Shade alongside Burt Reynolds, and perhaps most notably,
(01:43):
Elaine Nardo on Taxi, a role that earned her five
Golden Globe nominations. Mary Lou Henner has also a New
York Times bestselling author and recently staged a one woman
autobiographical show. It covered everything from growing up in a
large family in Chicago to her preternatural mnemonic skills. Henna
(02:05):
is one of about sixty people in the world who
can recall nearly every detail of her life, down to
the exact day and date.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
It's so funny because you know, I worked with Trump
twice on Celebrity Apprentice, but he used to start the
reboard room, like Mary Lou. If I took you to Vegas,
could you cheap for me? Could you count the cards?
Could you let's go to Vegas.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I'm sure people assume that this skill you have.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
It's not a skill, but it's yeah, it's just there.
It's weird.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
What do you call it.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I call it a gift. The people sometimes call it
a condition. It's not, and that's why they changed the name.
They used to call it hyper tygnesia, but then they
thought that that was like too weird a name, which
it really is. But it's not that they don't call
it that anymore. It's h Sam highly superior autobiographical memory.
H SAM. And it's funny you should mention that and Michelle,
because I do a song about it in my show
(03:00):
that my brother wrote the lyrics to. So I'm going
to is a song called wait, don't tell me No, No,
you know what it's called. It's you know, the Peggy
Lee song because I'm a woman. You know that song? Okay,
So I thought, hmmm, because I have h SAM, so
this is what we decided. I'll just do the first
one Bucks County. It was yeah, I was like this
(03:26):
because I excuse me, mister. It was a very successful
number and a very successful run, a lot of fun.
They said it was the best show they've done there
in seven years.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well let me ask you this. You wrote a biography
back in ninety four. You've written ten books, I believe,
including that book. But when you do a one woman show.
Where do you start?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, you need an opening number that sort of grabs
people and sort of sets up the tone. And so
I I wanted everything to sort of connect to something
in my life. And I was watching television and do
you know the Cold Porter movie, not Night and Day,
the other one that he did anyway, So all of
a sudden, I'm flicking through channels and there it is,
and it's Elvis Costello singing Let's Misbehave, And I thought, oh,
(04:08):
that's the closing credits to Johnny Dangerously. I'm going to
sing that song as my opener and then tell a
story about Johnny Dangerously, but then say everything is connected.
And then I go into the song about my memory
because I wanted to set that up right away because
I throw dates around a lot. And then I talk
about my childhood, which was so unusual, so you know,
(04:29):
and I do a little whole tribute to growing up
in a dancing school.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, yeah, what's funny. When I think of you, I
think of many things. You know, when you do the
show Taxi. You're someone who is part of that elite
group of people that I know who were on a
hit TV show back when tens of millions of people
were watching TV, but such a remarkable group of people,
all of whom went on to have these, you know,
really heavy duty careers and everything and movies and TV
(04:53):
and theater and so forth. And how did you get
that job?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Okay, this is a good story. I believe that the
key to your life is how well you deal with
Plan B, because so many Plan B things you plan
for Plan A, and you think this is how it's
going to work out, and then all of a sudden
forget it. I had been flown out to Los Angeles
to do a screen test for a movie called Blood Brothers.
I auditioned for Robert Mulligan, the guy I was testing opposite.
He didn't get the job, but they kept me around
(05:19):
because they had to find the guy. And then they
found him, and it was Richard Gear, whom I knew
through the Grease family because when I my first day
in show business professionally, I was in the first National
Company of Greece and I walked into that first rehearsal
and it was Jeff Conaway playing Danny Zuko, Jerry Zach's
playing Kinicki, Michael Lembeck playing Sonny, Judy k playing Rizzo,
(05:40):
Johnny Travolta playing Duty, and Richard gear rehearsing for the
London Company to play Danny Zuko. Anyway, so Richard and
I crosspaths again because we ended up getting cast in
Blood Brothers. So I came out to Los Angeles and
then I ended up staying because I had a contract
with CBS at the time, and they offered me money
every month to stay away from the other networks while
they found something for me, holding money, holding deal. I
(06:02):
had a holding deal for a few years. Now, all
of a sudden, they're starting to audition for Taxi and
Joel Thurm he really liked me. They wanted a thirty
five year old Italian New Yorker because they wanted her
to have like a sixteen seventeen, eighteen year old daughter,
and because unmarried woman and goodbye girl those were all
out then, so they liked the mother daughter dynamic. But
(06:23):
Joel said, I'm telling you, this is the girl. I
was twenty five. He said, this is the girl because
she can hold her own with somebody like a Judd Hirsch.
She's one of the guys. But you'd believe her having
art aspirations. And I'm telling you, this is the girl.
So he kept bringing me back with all these older actresses.
But in the meantime, my mom was dying in the
hospital in Chicago, so I would literally fly back and
(06:44):
forth and back and forth and back and forth. So
what happened was they really liked me, and at that point,
paper Chase was picked up for a season because Taxi
didn't have to do a pilot, so paper Chase was
picked up for a season and they said, okay, she
tested higher than even John Houseman, we have to give
her a contract. And my agent said, well, there's this
(07:05):
other show, Taxi that you know, so we have to see.
So my agents were able to play one against the other.
And I really wanted to do Taxi because the idea
of doing a sitcom was more appealing to me because
it's like a stage play, you know. So Taxi said, well,
she's too young. We see this teenage girl with a daughter,
blah blah blah blah blah. And they said, look, you're
going to lose her to pay per Chase if you
don't do it. And so they said, okay, we'll do it.
(07:28):
She's Elaine. We'll give her two little kids. So that's
what they did so.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
How it was Housman pay Per Chase and what was
his name, Timothy.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Something, Timothy Bottoms. No, he didn't do the TV show.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Tim Bottoms did the movie.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, yeah, that was a good movie with Lindsay Wagner
and everything. John Houseman was a real character. At the
rap party for the pilot, he tried to French kiss me.
I mean he was like one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Wow, well you can actually be canceled now I know.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Oh my god, I've got that. Yeah, I mean I
never had like creepy.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Who probably deserved to be canceled at some point.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
In Actually, I was very protective of myself. I've been
the kind of girl that I think most whatever, I
don't want to say, Well, you know, I had brothers,
so I knew men or pigs, so I was like
always on the defense. I knew I was paying attention.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Some of them are some of them.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's funny you say that, because in that casting holding
deal I went out to l A. I told the
story before I think, but I'm there and Chris Guest's mother,
Jean Guest, who are worshiped Gene Guests, was in charge
of casting. Incredible loveliest woman in show She was one
of the loveliest women in show business. And if she
really believed in you, she like hung in there with you.
She brings me into a meeting and they put me
(08:35):
on a holding deal because I did a pilot for
them that fizzled, and they said, we're going to sign
to this holding deal because we really believe in you.
We're going to keep throwing it against the wall until
something sticks. And then he says, we want you to
be the next Bill Dixby. I was like, wow, that
sounds great.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Did you ever honor the deal? Did you ever have
to or did you get something else?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And the pilot and then I did a tea movie
for them. I did a couple of things for them.
This is obviously a billion years ago, in the eighties
and the early eighties.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
The one with Stephanie Zimblist.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
You were so good in that that was NBC.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, I could tell you the day we met and
how we met. What was it. It was May May
the twenty second of nineteen eighty five. It was a Wednesday,
and this is how we met. I knew Tuck, your roommate,
So Tuck and I went till dinner one time, and
in Venice and right where you guys used to live.
So I went over to your house. And now we
(09:31):
are both. I'm in New York doing the junket for Perfect,
and I'm on a bunch of shows and I'm on
Live at five with Sue Simmons, remember, yeah, and you're
And so you and I were both in the room,
but I didn't see you because I didn't really know you.
And all of a sudden I could feel you over
this person over my left shoulder, and then all of
a sudden, Susimon says, and coming up next Alec Baldwin
(09:53):
and later Mary Lou Hannah, and it was like we
looked at each other and I went, oh my gosh.
It was like, oh my gosh. And you and I
actually had lunch the day of the big Perfect opening
and you were one hundred days sober that day, and
you showed me your coin.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah. I have thirty six years now and Fabril have
thirty seven years. The unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And even last night I wanted to have a drake.
Last night, I thought, let me just have a gigantic glass.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
What would you do?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Wine slurpy glass? Of red wine. Tell me good, because
I have horrible insomnia. I've always had hard me too.
Me out with these kids, it's horrible. You know.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I wrote a book called I Refused to Raise a Braath,
and I wrote it with a brilliant psychoanalyst because I
had these two kids, and I listened. Every time I
listened to her, it didn't the kids, it was all good.
And then when I didn't, it was like, Okay, it's
going to bite me on the ass at some point.
But it's so funny because having so many.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I grew up with six.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You grew up with six. We had the opposite of
you guys, because it was two boys and four girls,
which is different, and third third I was third. We
came up with this concept, the concept of hamper, you know,
because our houses were like a big hamper. So now
to this day, you could have a beautiful silk blouse,
but it's got a stain, so you put a pin
over it. That's hamper. You know, your glasses are broken,
(11:06):
so you put a pin in it. That's hamper.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You do you put a paper clip a paper clip,
your uniform had staples in it, or tape or something.
You know, it's like I remember growing up, our phone
court was always like so you had to like hold it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
If you read if you read my memoir, it opens
up with how my mother's bedroom was filled with plastic
pails filled with laundry. It was laundry. He bedroom. Her
bedroom was a hand She had an ironing board at
the foot of her bed and an iron and she
had like these plastic hampers, right, these collapsible plastic things
that were just and they were like falling off of
each other. I said, if you if you came to
(11:41):
my house and you didn't know better, you thought this
was in an illegal laundry. Someone was running out of
their house.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So my mother used to do her laun tree on Tuesdays.
There was seventeen loads, you know, and she always had
like seventeen loads from all of us because when you
think about it, a house full of kids like that.
The beginning of the pandemic, I was home. My boys
were here, my brother has two children, my husband, we
were here. I never did more cooking and cleaning and
laundry and scrubbing grout in my life because I'm very
(12:07):
you know, I like to be very organized. But we
had a rule that everybody.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
My wife hates it. She's really angry with me that
you're so meticulous that I'm so crushed by an OCD
at that level with my kids, like I'm always cleaning
in my household, and long with my wife was like,
this is going to kill you.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, with kids, you got to let it go. I mean,
because I was always and I was tested for OCD
because that was part of the whole memory thing. They
take blood, they do all kinds of tests for you.
I don't have OCD. I call my oco obsessive compulsive
order because one kid in the family had to have
it with six kids, and my bedroom was off the
kitchen and had no door, so people could be on
the phone or at the kitchen table and look in
(12:43):
at a little girl sleeping, and I didn't care. I
was my oldest sister shared it with me, than my
younger sister, than my brother. I mean, but always my
room had no door. So I think that's how I
ended up in show business.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I think the same. I'll tell my wife, I go,
don't you want to let's go to the opposite here.
Don't you want to commend me for how neat I am?
But would you rather have a husband who didn't want
to clean. Now you have two biological children, two biological children,
and they're how old now?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
They're one is twenty seven, the other one's twenty five
and a half, and.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You have them doing what phase of your career? What
were you working on at the time you decided to
put the brakes on and have kids.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Oh well, I had finished, okay, so I finished evening Shade.
I do tell this in my club act because I
always say I couldn't talk about the eighties and nineties
without talking about Burt Reynolds, because I did five projects
with him and we never had a thing, which is
probably why we were able to work together so often.
But I always adored him and he one morning, you know, Rob,
(13:38):
my second husband, and I were frisky and then I
go to work and Bert is directing this episode where
he has me do a stunt where I am running, running, running,
leaping over like a fence in a football stadium stand
and I land and then run up to the team
and he says, do it again, do it again, do
it again, do it again. So that night I was
(13:59):
sitting in a restaurant and this is after three and
a half years I sitting in a restaurant and I
looked at Rob and I went, the eagle has landed.
I just got pregnant. He said. What I said, I'm
telling you. Contact was made, and sure enough I was pregnant.
So I always tell people Burt Reynolds got me pregnant,
even though he's not the father of my kids.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
He's the spiritual father.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
The spiritual father.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, and when you worked with him, you did Cannibal
Too with him?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Well, I first did the man who loved women, and
we had such a great chemistry the very first day.
But he called me the night that we met, the
very night and he said, I want you to come
down to the Dinner Theater in Jupiter, Florida. I want
you to do their playing our song, he said, And
I want you to do Cannonball Run too. But I
want a rewrite of the script. Do you know anybody,
(14:44):
any of the guys from Taxi that might be willing
to take a crack at it. I was like, okay,
So originally the counterball I've never told this story before.
The count Ball Run Too script was about the Dom
and Bert sort of rescue this girl who's hiding out
in a Santa Terrim and she's an heiress and then
they rescue her, and then she and Bert end up
in a thing. And so then I get Harvey Miller,
(15:07):
who was a taxi writer the job, and he turns
it into two women, and then Shirley McLean wanted to
do it. So then of course they put Shirley with
Burt and I was with Dom, which was fine, but
it's kind of funny, but I had like one of
the best experience. That movie was so stupid. But there
were a couple days where we had like twenty three
wagon trains in the desert outside of Tucson, Arizona, because
(15:31):
it was one hundred and seventeen degrees. So we started
hair and makeup was at two o'clock in the morning
so we could be on the road before four, and
we pulled the plug at at one. But then everybody
hung out at the pool at the Arizona Inn. So
it was Sammy Davis Junior, and Dean Martin, all these
guys and even Frank for a day. And to be
with Shirley, whom I had always loved and always idle,
(15:52):
to play her friend, and then to have her hanging
out with the rat pack. It was like, you know,
I was this little girl from Chicago who's watching these
people at drive ins and stuff. Was like a lot
of one.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, I met him. For those people who don't know this,
and I was not a big devotee of this, but
I went a few times. It's that Norby Walters, famous
record executive. Norby Walters had his card game, his legendary
card game at his apartment Wednesday nights and West Wednesday
nights in West Hollywood. And you go up to the
department of his near.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Holloway, Yeah, Halloway and Losi Anago, Yeah, Losi, on.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Your way to Barney's Beanery and on your way to
the Sunset Marquis, and you go to his house. And
I went there. I went a handful of times. You know,
Velvida cheese and no alcohol. That was a no alcohol
and you bought one hundred dollars worth of chips and
when you were finished, you were done. There was no
serious gambling. And you went there. And I remember sitting
(16:44):
there one time and there was Harvey Korman and Tim.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Oh Tim Conway, Yeah Conway.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
The two of them were there at one time. Kathy
Lee Crosby would go every now.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
And then Rod Steiger was there a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
When you were there. Bert was there when I went
one time, Oh he was. He seemed like he was
in the throw of his kind of medicated agony. But
but then to the right of me one time was
Don Adams, and Don Adams is in a China white
jumpsuit and everyone's waiting for the moment to arrive when
someone's going to just do this and do the Don
(17:15):
Adams thing, so somebody will puts down two pairs, you know.
He puts down two pairs, and I put down I
say I have three kings, and everybody left, and he
doesn't laugh. Oh, and then finally he smiles and nods
to me, like, okay, good for you. You saw the
opportunity and you took it. But he was very serious
(17:36):
and very really super antiseptic and very He was there
to play cards. He didn't want to talk about his
career or chit chatt. He was there to play cards
with a bunch of schmucks. We work card players were
eating Valveda and Hershy's kisses and drinking Hawaian punch whatever
the hell they had there.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, it's funny, you're bringing up Norby Walters because you
probably don't remember this, but we were both supposed to
be there on it was. It was the seventh of
two thousand and one. Okay, it was a Wednesday at
June the sixth of two thousand and one, seriously, and
you called up and said you weren't going to make it.
He put me on the phone with you, and I said,
(18:13):
you said, how are you doing blah blah blah, And
I said something about I just I'm filing for divorce.
And you said, oh, can I talk to you about divorce?
I said, you said, let's meet tomorrow. So you and
I went to Sushi Roku on Third Avenue and you
were telling me there was all the pitfalls. This was
two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It was.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
What happened was we got together because I was avoiding
the process servers because everybody said, oh, you have to
let the woman serve first because otherwise it looks like
she cheated. Blah blah blah blah blah. And we were
having a friendly divorce.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
We went away that weekend and read about it ourselves
in the paper. Rob and I were still friends. You know,
I do things weird, but we're still like really good friends.
But anyway, we sat at the sushi Roku for like
two and a half hours and you told me everything
that was going on and what I should watch out for.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I know you remind me energy and my feelings for
you remind me of when I was around Streisand once
and I said to her, you know, you and I
would be the greatest divorced couple. You know, we would
be married, we'd be in love, maybe we'd have a kid.
Of course, we get divorced. It just has to be
that way. It shows us. But I come over every Sunday.
We'd have Chinese food screen exactly. And I feel the
(19:20):
same way about you. You and I would have made
great x P.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, we think very similarly, and that we have that
big family kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
This is a trite word, and this is a trite idea,
but not so trite now in the age of the
pandemic and beyond. And that is positivity. And you have
always been this like staggeringly positive healthy. What's the secret?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well, A couple of things come to mind. I had
a really great family and we're still super close. My
parents both died tragically, both of them very young, and
I think it bonded the family. I did a lot
of therapy. I got my whole family involved in therapy.
My therapist would put six speaker boxes up in her
office at Princeton, New Jersey, and every other Sunday for
(20:05):
ten years, the siblings would do a group therapy. So
we've worked out a lot of our stuff. That's number one.
But I had an extraordinary childhood which was totally unusual,
with the dancing school in the backyard, beauty shop in
the kitchen, an uncle who taught art at the Catholic
grammar school and lived upstairs with his boyfriend Charles, and
a menagerie of animals. And I just had such an
(20:27):
unusual way of growing up. And I always had this
mission to make something of myself and to share. I
think it's a middle child and me always wanted to, like,
if I have a good idea, I want to share
it with everybody. I've never been very proprietary over anything.
I just always want to share with people. I think
it comes from being the middle maybe, But I also
think having my memory has helped, because the memory makes
(20:49):
you get over things very quickly, because you start to
see the waves. And also being an actress. You know,
every bad experience was like, Okay, I'm going to take
note of this. What can I do better next time?
How can I figure this out? You know I say
to people all the time, they go, how do you
do it? And it's like this, I go, think of
flaps up and it's like you just close your ears
(21:09):
to it, flaps up. You say that to my kids
all the time, you know, smile not and move on.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So you were married three times, you were married twice,
and you're married again now third in final, final, And
so each of these meant the extent you're willing to say,
what did they represent for you? You seem to be
such a thoughtful, deliberate aware. You seem like somebody that
all the lights are on your brain, your mind, your
soul is like a house shoe pull up to It's
(21:35):
like some kind of a Richard Neutra, all glass structure
and all the lights are on. You're always on, you
know what I mean? And alert and aware. So when
you married one, and you married two, when you married three,
what were you marrying them for?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Well? First of all, Freddie and I met at a
screen test, and I didn't know that they added a kiss,
and I was the sixth girl screen testing opposite him
for a film called Hammet, and.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
We just did.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Some people who don't know this is Forrest, Yeah, sorry,
Frederick Forrest. The Academy Award nominated Freddy Freddy. And so
he was so different from anybody I knew. He was
a lot older than I was, but he was so
different from anybody I ever knew. And I was so
fascinated by him because his brain was so different and
he was just I've just never seen anything like a
(22:21):
totally instinctive, brilliant actor. Brilliant actor and would transform himself
every part that he's played. He looks completely different. And
he wanted to marry me a few months after we
started dating, and I said, no, let's live together. He said,
no marriage or nothing. I said, okay, well then nothing.
And then I went to my tenth year high school
(22:42):
reunion in Chicago and he went to a wedding and
he called me and we were both feeling very sentimental
and we said, okay, let's get married. I said okay,
and then we ended up getting married three weeks later
in New Orleans and that was it. And then coming
home from the honeymoon because the actors were on strike.
I was going back to taxing. I thought, what if
I just don't. I'm married a total stranger to me,
(23:02):
you know. It was like crazy. But he was so
fascinating and so loving and so full of demons that
if you're not somebody who is exposed to demons a lot,
you think like, I'll fix it. I'm going to take
care of it. Twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You're very young. Yeah, everything you do in your twenties
is a moment. Yeah. No.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I have three theories of marriage. The first one is
marriages like making waffles. You throw the first one out, okay.
The second one is marriage is finding that special certain
someone you just know you'd love to aggravate the rest
of your life, because marriage is like, you know, all
these little, like diggy kind of things. And I said,
but no, the real theory Saint A. Zuberrie wrote something
(23:44):
and I added something to it, and that is you'll
have a happy marriage when you realize marriage isn't two
people gazing longingly into each other's eyes, but rather looking
out over the mountain in the same direction, with their
hands on each other's genitals. That's the part I added.
(24:05):
That's the part I added because you've got to have heat.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Oh that wasn't saint than zuber reed?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
No, no, sorry, So you got to have vision and heat.
So my first marriage was all heat, my second marriage
was all vision, and finally I have vision and heat in.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
My third marriage. Wow actress Mary Lou Henner. If you
like hearing about the lives of groundbreaking women in comedy,
check out my interview with Carol Burnett. Her hit variety
show ran for more than a decade in the late
sixties and seventies, and at the height of her success,
(24:41):
she had to tread carefully. In that era.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
The only one who really would speak up was Lucy.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
She was very strong.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But it's not in my nature to take over confront
or anything.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
You know, if a sketch wasn't working or something, instead
of like gleaes and or Sid would say, look, guys,
this stinks.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Now, come on, you got to fix it.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
But but you know they would do that.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
I would say, I'd call the writers down into the
rehearsal hall and I'd say, you know, guys, I'm not
doing this too well. Do you think maybe you could
help me out with a different line here or there?
Because you know, otherwise I would have.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Been a bit hear more of my conversation with Carol
Burnett in our archives that Here's Thething dot org. After
the Break, Mary Lou Henner talks about how a change
she made and her approach to auditioning completely opened up
her career. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's
(25:52):
the Thing. Mary lou Henner is passionate about encouraging people
to take charge of their happiness and well being. She's
written several best selling books on living a healthy lifestyle,
often sharing lessons that changed her own life.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
What happened was, I went with Jerry Katzman, who's the
head of William Morse at the time. He said, you
have to write a book. I'm hooking you up with
Judith Reagan. So Judith and I met at lunch and
we hung out together all day and everything. I had
a book deal, so I started working on my autobiography.
She is a character, and when she started her own imprint,
she said to me, you have to write a health
book because you're in such good shape of this. You
(26:30):
changed so much since blah blah blah. Every time I
have anything wrong with me, my kids, I call you,
and you always seem to know the answer. So I
was doing the show Chicago on Broadway, and one of
the guys said, oh, why don't you give us like
some lectures. I was like okay. So in between shows,
I would do these seminars and I'd have a little,
you know, like tape recorder, and I'd be, you know,
(26:51):
talking to them, and then I'd be putting on my
eyelashes like the evils of dairy products, you know, as
I'm putting on my eyelashes to go do roxy. And
so then I worked with some who was like a
real crafts person in terms of like books, and I
was so revved up from all the fossy and my
boys were very little, so I could like give them
a bath, go to the theater, be revved up, go
(27:11):
to an office and work on the book. And a
few weeks after the show ended, the book came out
and it went on the New York Times bestseller list.
And I've sold over a million copies of that first
health book. But then got a contract to keep going
and going and going. So then I've done ton what's.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Your biggest health concern? You know, we're growing up in
my lifetime, everybody was always saying, you know, don't smoke,
and then when I went through my drug phase, people
said you got to get sober and stop taking all
these drugs and drinking, which I've had a very relatively
brief but white hot period of that for a couple
of years in the eighties when I was very young,
(27:49):
and then as I've gotten older. You know, the thing
that shocks me, that is the utter poison in my
life is sugar. Because I was pre diabetic and now
I'm full diabetic. Has been so gotten married for me?
For me, Yeah, what's your health concerns now? Like, what
do you say to yourself? I never eat. I sometimes
(28:09):
eat every now and then I cheat and I allow
myself to eat. When you want to treat yourself to
something that you know isn't the best possible thing for you,
is it something sweet? Is something? No? No?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
No?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
If I'm a savory person, no, I would say probably
sushi is like my own, my last not so guilty pleasure. Yeah.
But I haven't had dairy since August fifteenth, nineteen seventy nine.
It was a Wednesday I gave up dairy and have
never had dairy since. And it changed my life. So
I'm always trying to get people off of deser.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
What was the impact? Oh, the sinuses and congestion you here, but.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Well that's a lot, but you know, through sore throats
and stomach aches all the time. When I lived in
New York, I'd live near zay Bars, and I would
go pick up cheese ends, you know at zay bars
where they'd cut the cheese a certain way and then
they have the little the little rind and stuff. And
I'd buy these little cheese bags, cheese ends bags on
my way to unemployment and wondered, why am I not
working when I'm fat, constabated and have been impulsed, you know,
(28:59):
I mean the whole stomach changed after I gave up dairy.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I used to be an ice cream addict. I was
like Brando. Yeah, and they say that brand would sit
with like a half a gallon of ice cream and
watch TV and you have like a big jug of
ice cream and lay in his bed and just with
a spoon and eat like a half a gallon of
ice cream. That wasn't that that?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah? But Darry is always the first thing I talk
to people about. Always. That's been on my that's my
soapbox speech. Immediately with people especially, I can read people's
faces and tell that they're like allergic to it or
something like that, or they've had trouble. But the big
killer right now, I think for everybody is the whole
stress management people. Really, you know, I say three things.
Learn to love the food that loves you. And we
(29:36):
know what doesn't love us. Learn to love the food
that loves you. It's very obviously what does Dairy did
not love me, Meat did not love me. Sugar does
not love meat, nor does it love you obviously, So
I say, learn to love the food that loves you.
I say motion is the lotion, because we've got to move.
You know, your cap stretches, your dogs, you walk your dogs.
Your hamster's got a wheel with this beautiful human animal.
(29:58):
You've got to walk, you got to do. You gotta move, move, move,
Motion is the lotion. And then I also say, you
better fall in love with your stress or it's going
to kill you. Because if I give I go all
over the country.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Stress, you better I can't fall in love with my stress.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Well yeah, I mean it's but no, you have to,
I always say, because I give speeches all over the country.
I'm always like asked to give you know, could go
to different things, seminars and stuff. And I always say,
if every one of you in this audience wrote down
your problems on a piece of paper and I collected
them and I started reading them out, and you had
to pick some problems that are on a list, you'd
all take back your own because you know the beast,
(30:36):
you know how to handle it. You just might not
be doing it well.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I always tell people whenever i'm especially when i'm speaking
to people in this profession. Number One, find out how
much you love acting itself, because you're going to get
to do so little of it. Oh, the life of
the actor is all this other bullshit. You know, the
rest of the year and you're in front of a camera,
what forty five minutes a day, an hour a day.
The rest is sitting in your room. You do the show,
it's two hours a night. If you're inclined to do theater,
(31:02):
and I said, you don't need to find that how
much you love it. And number two, if you're in
get into it. Don't do what I did, which is
to be like fuck la and fuck you, and I
think you're all full of shit. And you know, this
whole thing is just this business is full of shit.
Be a part of it. Join the academy, go to
the screening, be a part of the business, and don't
be cynical about it. And if not, then get out.
(31:22):
Get out.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I always say, if something, do you or don't do it.
If someone can talk you out of it, let it,
because otherwise you have to really really want to do it.
And also I always say to people, look fall in
love with auditioning because it might be the only ten
minutes you have that job. So if you do it,
you know what I mean, then it's like your job
for ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And maybe you remember all these people from the TV
star shelf that we always talk about. Gregory Harrison, who
did an interview wants to change My life Gregory Harrison.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I mean, we did Jack Nicholson and Margaret parts in
Cardinal Knowledge at the Pasadena Playhouse. We played those parts,
so we saw each other naked in a shower. Yeah,
oh my.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
God, I'm sure you both look pretty good. We do,
We still do. I he did an interview once years ago,
was a million years ago, like TV Guide or some
stupid thing, and he did an interview where he said, basically,
I'm paraphrasing. He was like, you know, his whole energy changed,
his whole career changed when he walked into auditions and
his attitude was like, how can I help you? Like
(32:25):
you called me here right. I didn't put a gun
to your head and make you, but it comes audition
me for this part. I have something you want? Yes,
you're looking for something and whether and once he stopped
giving the energy of like oh and being fawning and obsequious,
then everything changed.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
It's so funny you're saying this because I tell a
story in my show again about how I auditioned for
forty commercials before I got one and the reason I
finally got one, and then I booked seventy two and
two and a half years. It was quite crazy. I
was doing commercials constantly, but it took me forty auditions
to get my first one. Because on the thirty ninth
a friend of mine called me and it was for
(33:00):
mister Coffee. I still remember the jingle and I had
to sing it. I was so wrong for the part,
but he called me in and he called me that
night and he said he knew I was having trouble
with auditions, and he said, are you this way the
way you were today with me in your auditions? And
I went, oh, my gosh, no, are you kidding. I
was just so myself because you were there. He said,
we almost changed the whole concept of the commercial because
(33:21):
you were so original. He said, that's what you have
to do every time you go into an audition. Stop
giving people what you think they want. Just go in
there and it's going to hit. It's going to hit.
And he was right. And then I booked one right
after the other and I became this body parts model
and it was just like crazy that I did a
lot of different parts of the body.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I was, which parts of the body did you do?
Which party? This is in my show? I said.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I did four playtext Brad commercials. You know it's got
sash here and seamless support to play text panties.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
You were wearing a bra, you were a bra model.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I was a bra model, but sometimes I had like
a shirt on, you know, and you could see certain things.
But it was just like I'm like, well exactly. And
then I did two play text panties commercials or all
you saw was my butts and they were cracked.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But these were separate commercials, separate. The bra and the
panty were two. He was a separate shoots because if
I was the producer, that's what I would have said, said,
and we need to shoot these separately, and we need
to shoot them over five days four and I did
do yes.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
And then I said, but all you see is my button,
my crotch, walking my dog, walking around Lincoln Center getting
on a bus. Well, the polaroids when you walk into
the audition for a panties commercial, it's amazing because you
see all these polaroids of just people's crotches and butts
and side views and everything else. And then I was
even the Fruit of the Loom pantyhose girl inside of
a giant apple with my legs sticking out. And so
(34:42):
I did like different carts. But then I also did
like I did an exce on Bicentennial Minute where I
played Annie Sullivan. I got a Cleo nomination for that.
And I did everything from Reese's peanut butter to gleam toothpaste,
so many different times. I was the Ponderosa Steakhouse girl,
the samson I luggage girl. So I just kept doing
and doing it. And doing it because every time and
I learned this the heart, I mean, I learned the
(35:03):
hard way. You walk in and you'd bring something to it,
like Gregory says, how can I help you? Let me
show you something like I would do with it.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
But what did you study at you Chicago? You studied theater.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
No, they had a theater department, but they had no
theater degree.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So even though I was kind of course, did you
take so? I?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
No, I was a political science major and so and
the first two years is mostly the core curriculum.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
So where did you learn to sing and dance? Well?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I grew up in the dancing studio, and I always
sang because my two older sisters were in choir and
stuff like that. So I'd go to their practices and stuff,
and it was just something I always wanted, you know.
I was on stage at two and a half at
a father doma.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
In Chicago, like a pinnacle for you? Is that a
big dream? Country?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
That was a big gream. They called me on March
the four, nineteen ninety seven, Walter, whom I knew from
the Greece family, and they called me and they said
Annie Ranking is leaving Chicago. And she thinks she'd be
a good replacement. What kind of dance shape are you in?
And I said, ooh, I haven't had my legs up
over my head except for childbirth or a good weekend
(36:02):
for about five years, so I better get my ass
back into class. So I went to class for ten
days and then I went to audition and then he
said go home, work on the fosse, and I did.
And I went back and there were like twenty seven
potential actors in the room and they kept eliminating, eliminating
until they told me I had the job. So I
did four hundred and eight performance, four hundred and eight
(36:24):
performance on Broadway Broadway, but I also did Vegas because
they asked me to come to Vegas and I was like, no,
I don't want to go to Vegas. And then my
agent said, well, let's have some fun with your quote.
And then he called me back. He said, they made
you an offer you can't refuse. You're going to Vegas.
It was like okay, So I went to Vegas. But
my favorite Vegas story because people always said, what's the
difference between Broadway and Vegas? Although it's not this anymore,
(36:44):
I'd say, oh yeah, Cup holders, because back then you
could this was ninety nine and two thousand you couldn't.
You could drink in Vegas, but you couldn't do it
on Broadway. So I'd been there two weeks and they
said we love you here. I said, really, you've the
show and I was like all excited. He said, no,
I haven't seen the show yet, but your crowd drinks
a lot more Belvedere than most people.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Okay, we love Velvitere. Yeah, I'll never forget. Someone was
connected to like one of these big phizzy musicals and
they were doing like some kind of a cast replacement
and they wanted all this stunt casting with somebody famous.
And this actress walks into audition for the lead role.
She's this famous actress, and she comes in and she
does her audition and she leaves and everyone's just kind
(37:31):
of standing there slack joe. After she leaves, and the
director turns over and goes, she can't sing, she can't dance,
she can't act. She's a star, you know, like we're
gonna hire her even though she has She gets a
D or an F in all three categories based on
what they saw there in that room that day.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
It's so funny because there's all these stories that you
know that sort of shape your life, like that one,
you know, and you just write, you hear it and
you understand it and you know it right away. When
I was first on Taxi is somebody at ABC. He goes,
I've got a movie for you, Mary Lou. I said, really,
what is it? And he said Sizzle? I said, what's
it about? He said, who cares sizzle? So Johnny and
(38:10):
I always used to say we would like jokers, like
people were like you, who cares sizzle?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You know, it's just that thing that you do. New
York Times best selling author Mary Lou Henner. If you're
enjoying this conversation, be sure to subscribe to Here's the
Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. When we return, Mary Lou Henner talks
(38:35):
about finding lasting love the third time around. I'm Alec
Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing. Mary Lou Henner
recently developed and performed a one woman autobiographical Shoe. It's
(39:01):
filled with songs and stories from her remarkable life.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
I sing a song about my sons and show a
video of like pictures of them and little videos. Oh
it kills me every time if I watch it, I'll
cry just thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I cry.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
And it's a mash up between nick of Time because
you know, it's funny Nicky took me three and a
half years to get pregnant. Joey like immediately I didn't
get my period. It was like Bam, I'm pregnant again.
So he and so I do nick of Time and
happiness is just a thing called joe and that's it.
And also I sing a song about Freddie, my first husband.
I do Desperado because that's kind of who he was
(39:36):
in my life. And that song always gets to me too.
So it's like tell telling some of those type stories
and talking about Bird was very emotional to a couple
of times. So it depends, you know, it depends on
the crowd.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
When you come and you're gonna camp, bet he is
your husband going to come with you?
Speaker 3 (39:49):
He comes? Yeah, he's great. Oh he's another whole story.
You know, we wrote a book. We got together. He
was my roommate's boyfriend. I didn't dare twinkle in his direction.
But then when he called me out of nowhere six
months after my divorce from Rob was final. We got
together within a week. We're saying I love you, We're
going to spend the rest of our lives together. And
two months later he's diagnosed with two cancers, bladder cancer
(40:10):
and lung cancer. And we ended up doing a whole
protocol for him that didn't involve chemo or radiation. They
wanted to remove his bladder, his prostate, run a hose
up his penis and we could pump it up six
times if we wanted to have sex. They were they
were pushing all of this. I was like, no, and
we always say.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
This is he's done with the pump by the way
he finishing.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Don't do it for fun. No, he doesn't need the
pump at all. No, my husband, thanks, No, No, not
at all. He saved all of his organs. He saved
his organs and he's been in remission. It'll be eighteen
years November the twenty fourth. It's pretty remarkable. And he
didn't he did immunotherapy, but he went completely vegan, and
he went got rid of I mean he did everything.
(40:49):
He shot himself with iscador, which is extract of mistletoe.
He got rid of all of the mercury, fillings in
his mouthculation therapy, high colonics, lymphatic massages, infrared saunas, and
he stayed on this protocol and he has been in
remission almost eighteen years. It's pretty remarkable, you know, pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
When I went to the doctor and he was going
to do the anterior hip replacement process, and he says
to me, now, I want to just review with you
that you know that that when you do the anterior procedure,
when we go in the front as opposed to the side,
it's the quickest to heal. But there are some complications.
Is like point zero two percent that we're going to
nick some nerves in there. There's some material to it.
And I said, what nerve? He took his finger and
he went like this, no, And I turned her mind
(41:30):
and said, oh, you can just tear that out just right.
I'm done. You can just yank that, get a pair
of pliers, and I've done with that.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Sex come on you. And we have an expression in
my family PF. Okay, we have this expression. My brothers
and I made it up and it's like measures the
sexual cuotient of things like oh man, there was so
much PF at that party, or man, I saw that
movie no PF between the two of them, and PF
stands for pussy factor or penis factor, right, because things
have PF, you know. And I don't like BD for
(41:58):
big dick energy because that is sexist and sizest, do
you know what I mean? But you and Hilaria obviously
have tons of PF. Obviously six kids, but you still
want to have You're still going to have PF.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Even I want you. I don't want to retire from that,
but yeah, please, but six kids, it's really been. It's
been like a super six and eight years is yeah,
six kids in seven.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Years, seven years and seven years old. Oh that's right,
seven years. You know. I don't know if you remember
this day, but we were all all the kids because
Ireland is close to my Joey's age. He's born November twelfth,
nineteen ninety five, so she's like the month. So we
were all at a meet because Joey was like the
real athlete in the family. But Joey was at this meet,
(42:38):
and Caitlyn Jenner was there and her kids and you know,
Ireland and my Joey and they were all doing their
sports thing. And you walked up to my son, Nick,
who was about thirteen at the time, fourteen at the time,
And you said, and what are you going to be
besides the Ralph Lauran model, because he's very cute.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
What is he doing now?
Speaker 3 (42:58):
He's a director. He's a director. He went to Columbia
and he directs all these videos. And he directed this
short that has now been bought by Will Ferrell's company
and he's turned it into a two hour movie and
he might be directing it, we'll see. But it looks good.
Can I just say what my son Joey's doing too?
Because he's yes, okay, because I said about Nick. So
Joey lives in Brooklyn. He does his improv troupe that
(43:20):
they do whatever. But he's an international bridge player. He's
one of the top bridge players in the world under
twenty five, and he became a life master at twenty four.
And he has all these women that he plays bridge
with and they pay a lot of money to play
with him because he's so cute. And he's writing a
script called Bridge Jiggelow because I have a comedy writer
(43:40):
and I have a director.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Telling telling me should read Jonathan Ames's book The Extra
Man that was made into a film with Kevin Klein
and Paul Dano, and that's your son, the Paul Danel.
He is a character because it's about a boy that
meets like a guy who's like a walker. He's like
a male prostitute and he doesn't necessarily sleep with the women,
but he's like he like takes old of these old
(44:05):
biddies to like Palm Beach, Cotillions and all the show.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I don't think are thinking that my son is talking
about them as old biddies, because you know, someone who
knows not his not his bridge party.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Anyway, My love to you, and I look forward to
seeing you in New York.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Okay, give my love to your kids. And you're one.
Sometimes it's called Mary Lou.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I know, so.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
I forgot that.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
I know we literally they my wife calls are Mary Lou.
I know she does Maria Luthia, but my wife calls
her Mary Lou.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
It's on the back of her little high chair. I know.
See I pay attention. Well, my name is Mary, Lucy, Denise,
ce Celia, Hannah Forrest, Lieberman Brown.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Good luck vision and heat, good luck on that chair.
My love to you, sweet We'll talk to you down
the road, okay. Actress and author Mary Lou Henner. This
episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, Carrie Donahue, Maureen Hobin,
and Zach MacNeice. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. I'm Alec Baldwin.
(45:10):
Here's the thing. Is brought to you by iHeart Radio
This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's
the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer, and that means
it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing, where
the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in
our summer staff picks series first up as Engineer Frank Imperial.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thanks Alec, it didn't take long for me to remember
one of my very favorite episodes. Mary Lou Henner is
an actress and author, Broadway star and Golden Globe winner,
but she can also remember every detail of her life
since childhood, down to what she did, what she wore,
and even what the weather was on any given day
(00:43):
in her history. There are less than one hundred people
in the world with this incredible type of memory, and
here's Alex's twenty twenty one conversation with one of them.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
People have different definitions of what makes a star. Is
it raw talent, beauty or is it simply an X factor,
a certain ineffable quality. Whatever it is, Mary Lou Henner
has it, and she has it in spades. Singer, dancer, actor,
and wellness expert, Henner is a multi talented performer who
(01:21):
is also simply a joy to be around. She's like
a Christmas tree and lights up every room she's in.
She's starred in over a dozen films, seven Broadway shows,
and two smash hit sitcoms. She played Ava Evans Newton
on Evening Shade alongside Burt Reynolds, and perhaps most notably,
(01:43):
Elaine Nardo on Taxi, a role that earned her five
Golden Globe nominations. Mary Lou Henner has also a New
York Times bestselling author and recently staged a one woman
autobiographical show. It covered everything from growing up in a
large family in Chicago to her preternatural mnemonic skills. Henna
(02:05):
is one of about sixty people in the world who
can recall nearly every detail of her life, down to
the exact day and date.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
It's so funny because you know, I worked with Trump
twice on Celebrity Apprentice, but he used to start the
reboard room, like Mary Lou. If I took you to Vegas,
could you cheap for me? Could you count the cards?
Could you let's go to Vegas.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I'm sure people assume that this skill you have.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
It's not a skill, but it's yeah, it's just there.
It's weird.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
What do you call it.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I call it a gift. The people sometimes call it
a condition. It's not, and that's why they changed the name.
They used to call it hyper tygnesia, but then they
thought that that was like too weird a name, which
it really is. But it's not that they don't call
it that anymore. It's h Sam highly superior autobiographical memory.
H SAM. And it's funny you should mention that and Michelle,
because I do a song about it in my show
(03:00):
that my brother wrote the lyrics to. So I'm going
to is a song called wait, don't tell me No, No,
you know what it's called. It's you know, the Peggy
Lee song because I'm a woman. You know that song? Okay,
So I thought, hmmm, because I have h SAM, so
this is what we decided. I'll just do the first
one Bucks County. It was yeah, I was like this
(03:26):
because I excuse me, mister. It was a very successful
number and a very successful run, a lot of fun.
They said it was the best show they've done there
in seven years.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well let me ask you this. You wrote a biography
back in ninety four. You've written ten books, I believe,
including that book. But when you do a one woman show.
Where do you start?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Well, you need an opening number that sort of grabs
people and sort of sets up the tone. And so
I I wanted everything to sort of connect to something
in my life. And I was watching television and do
you know the Cold Porter movie, not Night and Day,
the other one that he did anyway, So all of
a sudden, I'm flicking through channels and there it is,
and it's Elvis Costello singing Let's Misbehave, And I thought, oh,
(04:08):
that's the closing credits to Johnny Dangerously. I'm going to
sing that song as my opener and then tell a
story about Johnny Dangerously, but then say everything is connected.
And then I go into the song about my memory
because I wanted to set that up right away because
I throw dates around a lot. And then I talk
about my childhood, which was so unusual, so you know,
(04:29):
and I do a little whole tribute to growing up
in a dancing school.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, yeah, what's funny. When I think of you, I
think of many things. You know, when you do the
show Taxi. You're someone who is part of that elite
group of people that I know who were on a
hit TV show back when tens of millions of people
were watching TV, but such a remarkable group of people,
all of whom went on to have these, you know,
really heavy duty careers and everything and movies and TV
(04:53):
and theater and so forth. And how did you get
that job?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Okay, this is a good story. I believe that the
key to your life is how well you deal with
Plan B, because so many Plan B things you plan
for Plan A, and you think this is how it's
going to work out, and then all of a sudden
forget it. I had been flown out to Los Angeles
to do a screen test for a movie called Blood Brothers.
I auditioned for Robert Mulligan, the guy I was testing opposite.
He didn't get the job, but they kept me around
(05:19):
because they had to find the guy. And then they
found him, and it was Richard Gear, whom I knew
through the Grease family because when I my first day
in show business professionally, I was in the first National
Company of Greece and I walked into that first rehearsal
and it was Jeff Conaway playing Danny Zuko, Jerry Zach's
playing Kinicki, Michael Lembeck playing Sonny, Judy k playing Rizzo,
(05:40):
Johnny Travolta playing Duty, and Richard gear rehearsing for the
London Company to play Danny Zuko. Anyway, so Richard and
I crosspaths again because we ended up getting cast in
Blood Brothers. So I came out to Los Angeles and
then I ended up staying because I had a contract
with CBS at the time, and they offered me money
every month to stay away from the other networks while
they found something for me, holding money, holding deal. I
(06:02):
had a holding deal for a few years. Now, all
of a sudden, they're starting to audition for Taxi and
Joel Thurm he really liked me. They wanted a thirty
five year old Italian New Yorker because they wanted her
to have like a sixteen seventeen, eighteen year old daughter,
and because unmarried woman and goodbye girl those were all
out then, so they liked the mother daughter dynamic. But
(06:23):
Joel said, I'm telling you, this is the girl. I
was twenty five. He said, this is the girl because
she can hold her own with somebody like a Judd Hirsch.
She's one of the guys. But you'd believe her having
art aspirations. And I'm telling you, this is the girl.
So he kept bringing me back with all these older actresses.
But in the meantime, my mom was dying in the
hospital in Chicago, so I would literally fly back and
(06:44):
forth and back and forth and back and forth. So
what happened was they really liked me, and at that point,
paper Chase was picked up for a season because Taxi
didn't have to do a pilot, so paper Chase was
picked up for a season and they said, okay, she
tested higher than even John Houseman, we have to give
her a contract. And my agent said, well, there's this
(07:05):
other show, Taxi that you know, so we have to see.
So my agents were able to play one against the other.
And I really wanted to do Taxi because the idea
of doing a sitcom was more appealing to me because
it's like a stage play, you know. So Taxi said, well,
she's too young. We see this teenage girl with a daughter,
blah blah blah blah blah. And they said, look, you're
going to lose her to pay per Chase if you
don't do it. And so they said, okay, we'll do it.
(07:28):
She's Elaine. We'll give her two little kids. So that's
what they did so.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
How it was Housman pay Per Chase and what was
his name, Timothy.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Something, Timothy Bottoms. No, he didn't do the TV show.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Tim Bottoms did the movie.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, yeah, that was a good movie with Lindsay Wagner
and everything. John Houseman was a real character. At the
rap party for the pilot, he tried to French kiss me.
I mean he was like one of those guys.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Wow, well you can actually be canceled now I know.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Oh my god, I've got that. Yeah, I mean I
never had like creepy.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Who probably deserved to be canceled at some point.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
In Actually, I was very protective of myself. I've been
the kind of girl that I think most whatever, I
don't want to say, Well, you know, I had brothers,
so I knew men or pigs, so I was like
always on the defense. I knew I was paying attention.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Some of them are some of them.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's funny you say that, because in that casting holding
deal I went out to l A. I told the
story before I think, but I'm there and Chris Guest's mother,
Jean Guest, who are worshiped Gene Guests, was in charge
of casting. Incredible loveliest woman in show She was one
of the loveliest women in show business. And if she
really believed in you, she like hung in there with you.
She brings me into a meeting and they put me
(08:35):
on a holding deal because I did a pilot for
them that fizzled, and they said, we're going to sign
to this holding deal because we really believe in you.
We're going to keep throwing it against the wall until
something sticks. And then he says, we want you to
be the next Bill Dixby. I was like, wow, that
sounds great.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Did you ever honor the deal? Did you ever have
to or did you get something else?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And the pilot and then I did a tea movie
for them. I did a couple of things for them.
This is obviously a billion years ago, in the eighties
and the early eighties.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
The one with Stephanie Zimblist.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
You were so good in that that was NBC.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, I could tell you the day we met and
how we met. What was it. It was May May
the twenty second of nineteen eighty five. It was a Wednesday,
and this is how we met. I knew Tuck, your roommate,
So Tuck and I went till dinner one time, and
in Venice and right where you guys used to live.
So I went over to your house. And now we
(09:31):
are both. I'm in New York doing the junket for Perfect,
and I'm on a bunch of shows and I'm on
Live at five with Sue Simmons, remember, yeah, and you're
And so you and I were both in the room,
but I didn't see you because I didn't really know you.
And all of a sudden I could feel you over
this person over my left shoulder, and then all of
a sudden, Susimon says, and coming up next Alec Baldwin
(09:53):
and later Mary Lou Hannah, and it was like we
looked at each other and I went, oh my gosh.
It was like, oh my gosh. And you and I
actually had lunch the day of the big Perfect opening
and you were one hundred days sober that day, and
you showed me your coin.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah. I have thirty six years now and Fabril have
thirty seven years. The unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
And even last night I wanted to have a drake.
Last night, I thought, let me just have a gigantic glass.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
What would you do?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Wine slurpy glass? Of red wine. Tell me good, because
I have horrible insomnia. I've always had hard me too.
Me out with these kids, it's horrible. You know.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I wrote a book called I Refused to Raise a Braath,
and I wrote it with a brilliant psychoanalyst because I
had these two kids, and I listened. Every time I
listened to her, it didn't the kids, it was all good.
And then when I didn't, it was like, Okay, it's
going to bite me on the ass at some point.
But it's so funny because having so many.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I grew up with six.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You grew up with six. We had the opposite of
you guys, because it was two boys and four girls,
which is different, and third third I was third. We
came up with this concept, the concept of hamper, you know,
because our houses were like a big hamper. So now
to this day, you could have a beautiful silk blouse,
but it's got a stain, so you put a pin
over it. That's hamper. You know, your glasses are broken,
(11:06):
so you put a pin in it. That's hamper.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You do you put a paper clip a paper clip,
your uniform had staples in it, or tape or something.
You know, it's like I remember growing up, our phone
court was always like so you had to like hold it.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
If you read if you read my memoir, it opens
up with how my mother's bedroom was filled with plastic
pails filled with laundry. It was laundry. He bedroom. Her
bedroom was a hand She had an ironing board at
the foot of her bed and an iron and she
had like these plastic hampers, right, these collapsible plastic things
that were just and they were like falling off of
each other. I said, if you if you came to
(11:41):
my house and you didn't know better, you thought this
was in an illegal laundry. Someone was running out of
their house.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So my mother used to do her laun tree on Tuesdays.
There was seventeen loads, you know, and she always had
like seventeen loads from all of us because when you
think about it, a house full of kids like that.
The beginning of the pandemic, I was home. My boys
were here, my brother has two children, my husband, we
were here. I never did more cooking and cleaning and
laundry and scrubbing grout in my life because I'm very
(12:07):
you know, I like to be very organized. But we
had a rule that everybody.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
My wife hates it. She's really angry with me that
you're so meticulous that I'm so crushed by an OCD
at that level with my kids, like I'm always cleaning
in my household, and long with my wife was like,
this is going to kill you.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Well, with kids, you got to let it go. I mean,
because I was always and I was tested for OCD
because that was part of the whole memory thing. They
take blood, they do all kinds of tests for you.
I don't have OCD. I call my oco obsessive compulsive
order because one kid in the family had to have
it with six kids, and my bedroom was off the
kitchen and had no door, so people could be on
the phone or at the kitchen table and look in
(12:43):
at a little girl sleeping, and I didn't care. I
was my oldest sister shared it with me, than my
younger sister, than my brother. I mean, but always my
room had no door. So I think that's how I
ended up in show business.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I think the same. I'll tell my wife, I go,
don't you want to let's go to the opposite here.
Don't you want to commend me for how neat I am?
But would you rather have a husband who didn't want
to clean. Now you have two biological children, two biological children,
and they're how old now?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
They're one is twenty seven, the other one's twenty five
and a half, and.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You have them doing what phase of your career? What
were you working on at the time you decided to
put the brakes on and have kids.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Oh well, I had finished, okay, so I finished evening Shade.
I do tell this in my club act because I
always say I couldn't talk about the eighties and nineties
without talking about Burt Reynolds, because I did five projects
with him and we never had a thing, which is
probably why we were able to work together so often.
But I always adored him and he one morning, you know, Rob,
(13:38):
my second husband, and I were frisky and then I
go to work and Bert is directing this episode where
he has me do a stunt where I am running, running, running,
leaping over like a fence in a football stadium stand
and I land and then run up to the team
and he says, do it again, do it again, do
it again, do it again. So that night I was
(13:59):
sitting in a restaurant and this is after three and
a half years I sitting in a restaurant and I
looked at Rob and I went, the eagle has landed.
I just got pregnant. He said. What I said, I'm
telling you. Contact was made, and sure enough I was pregnant.
So I always tell people Burt Reynolds got me pregnant,
even though he's not the father of my kids.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
He's the spiritual father.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
The spiritual father.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, and when you worked with him, you did Cannibal
Too with him?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Well, I first did the man who loved women, and
we had such a great chemistry the very first day.
But he called me the night that we met, the
very night and he said, I want you to come
down to the Dinner Theater in Jupiter, Florida. I want
you to do their playing our song, he said, And
I want you to do Cannonball Run too. But I
want a rewrite of the script. Do you know anybody,
(14:44):
any of the guys from Taxi that might be willing
to take a crack at it. I was like, okay,
So originally the counterball I've never told this story before.
The count Ball Run Too script was about the Dom
and Bert sort of rescue this girl who's hiding out
in a Santa Terrim and she's an heiress and then
they rescue her, and then she and Bert end up
in a thing. And so then I get Harvey Miller,
(15:07):
who was a taxi writer the job, and he turns
it into two women, and then Shirley McLean wanted to
do it. So then of course they put Shirley with
Burt and I was with Dom, which was fine, but
it's kind of funny, but I had like one of
the best experience. That movie was so stupid. But there
were a couple days where we had like twenty three
wagon trains in the desert outside of Tucson, Arizona, because
(15:31):
it was one hundred and seventeen degrees. So we started
hair and makeup was at two o'clock in the morning
so we could be on the road before four, and
we pulled the plug at at one. But then everybody
hung out at the pool at the Arizona Inn. So
it was Sammy Davis Junior, and Dean Martin, all these
guys and even Frank for a day. And to be
with Shirley, whom I had always loved and always idle,
(15:52):
to play her friend, and then to have her hanging
out with the rat pack. It was like, you know,
I was this little girl from Chicago who's watching these
people at drive ins and stuff. Was like a lot
of one.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, I met him. For those people who don't know this,
and I was not a big devotee of this, but
I went a few times. It's that Norby Walters, famous
record executive. Norby Walters had his card game, his legendary
card game at his apartment Wednesday nights and West Wednesday
nights in West Hollywood. And you go up to the
department of his near.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Holloway, Yeah, Halloway and Losi Anago, Yeah, Losi, on.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Your way to Barney's Beanery and on your way to
the Sunset Marquis, and you go to his house. And
I went there. I went a handful of times. You know,
Velvida cheese and no alcohol. That was a no alcohol
and you bought one hundred dollars worth of chips and
when you were finished, you were done. There was no
serious gambling. And you went there. And I remember sitting
(16:44):
there one time and there was Harvey Korman and Tim.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Oh Tim Conway, Yeah Conway.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
The two of them were there at one time. Kathy
Lee Crosby would go every now.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
And then Rod Steiger was there a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
When you were there. Bert was there when I went
one time, Oh he was. He seemed like he was
in the throw of his kind of medicated agony. But
but then to the right of me one time was
Don Adams, and Don Adams is in a China white
jumpsuit and everyone's waiting for the moment to arrive when
someone's going to just do this and do the Don
(17:15):
Adams thing, so somebody will puts down two pairs, you know.
He puts down two pairs, and I put down I
say I have three kings, and everybody left, and he
doesn't laugh. Oh, and then finally he smiles and nods
to me, like, okay, good for you. You saw the
opportunity and you took it. But he was very serious
(17:36):
and very really super antiseptic and very He was there
to play cards. He didn't want to talk about his
career or chit chatt. He was there to play cards
with a bunch of schmucks. We work card players were
eating Valveda and Hershy's kisses and drinking Hawaian punch whatever
the hell they had there.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah, it's funny, you're bringing up Norby Walters because you
probably don't remember this, but we were both supposed to
be there on it was. It was the seventh of
two thousand and one. Okay, it was a Wednesday at
June the sixth of two thousand and one, seriously, and
you called up and said you weren't going to make it.
He put me on the phone with you, and I said,
(18:13):
you said, how are you doing blah blah blah, And
I said something about I just I'm filing for divorce.
And you said, oh, can I talk to you about divorce?
I said, you said, let's meet tomorrow. So you and
I went to Sushi Roku on Third Avenue and you
were telling me there was all the pitfalls. This was
two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It was.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
What happened was we got together because I was avoiding
the process servers because everybody said, oh, you have to
let the woman serve first because otherwise it looks like
she cheated. Blah blah blah blah blah. And we were
having a friendly divorce.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
We went away that weekend and read about it ourselves
in the paper. Rob and I were still friends. You know,
I do things weird, but we're still like really good friends.
But anyway, we sat at the sushi Roku for like
two and a half hours and you told me everything
that was going on and what I should watch out for.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I know you remind me energy and my feelings for
you remind me of when I was around Streisand once
and I said to her, you know, you and I
would be the greatest divorced couple. You know, we would
be married, we'd be in love, maybe we'd have a kid.
Of course, we get divorced. It just has to be
that way. It shows us. But I come over every Sunday.
We'd have Chinese food screen exactly. And I feel the
(19:20):
same way about you. You and I would have made
great x P.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, we think very similarly, and that we have that
big family kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
This is a trite word, and this is a trite idea,
but not so trite now in the age of the
pandemic and beyond. And that is positivity. And you have
always been this like staggeringly positive healthy. What's the secret?
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well, A couple of things come to mind. I had
a really great family and we're still super close. My
parents both died tragically, both of them very young, and
I think it bonded the family. I did a lot
of therapy. I got my whole family involved in therapy.
My therapist would put six speaker boxes up in her
office at Princeton, New Jersey, and every other Sunday for
(20:05):
ten years, the siblings would do a group therapy. So
we've worked out a lot of our stuff. That's number one.
But I had an extraordinary childhood which was totally unusual,
with the dancing school in the backyard, beauty shop in
the kitchen, an uncle who taught art at the Catholic
grammar school and lived upstairs with his boyfriend Charles, and
a menagerie of animals. And I just had such an
(20:27):
unusual way of growing up. And I always had this
mission to make something of myself and to share. I
think it's a middle child and me always wanted to, like,
if I have a good idea, I want to share
it with everybody. I've never been very proprietary over anything.
I just always want to share with people. I think
it comes from being the middle maybe, But I also
think having my memory has helped, because the memory makes
(20:49):
you get over things very quickly, because you start to
see the waves. And also being an actress. You know,
every bad experience was like, Okay, I'm going to take
note of this. What can I do better next time?
How can I figure this out? You know I say
to people all the time, they go, how do you
do it? And it's like this, I go, think of
flaps up and it's like you just close your ears
(21:09):
to it, flaps up. You say that to my kids
all the time, you know, smile not and move on.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So you were married three times, you were married twice,
and you're married again now third in final, final, And
so each of these meant the extent you're willing to say,
what did they represent for you? You seem to be
such a thoughtful, deliberate aware. You seem like somebody that
all the lights are on your brain, your mind, your
soul is like a house shoe pull up to It's
(21:35):
like some kind of a Richard Neutra, all glass structure
and all the lights are on. You're always on, you
know what I mean? And alert and aware. So when
you married one, and you married two, when you married three,
what were you marrying them for?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Well? First of all, Freddie and I met at a
screen test, and I didn't know that they added a kiss,
and I was the sixth girl screen testing opposite him
for a film called Hammet, and.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
We just did.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Some people who don't know this is Forrest, Yeah, sorry,
Frederick Forrest. The Academy Award nominated Freddy Freddy. And so
he was so different from anybody I knew. He was
a lot older than I was, but he was so
different from anybody I ever knew. And I was so
fascinated by him because his brain was so different and
he was just I've just never seen anything like a
(22:21):
totally instinctive, brilliant actor. Brilliant actor and would transform himself
every part that he's played. He looks completely different. And
he wanted to marry me a few months after we
started dating, and I said, no, let's live together. He said,
no marriage or nothing. I said, okay, well then nothing.
And then I went to my tenth year high school
(22:42):
reunion in Chicago and he went to a wedding and
he called me and we were both feeling very sentimental
and we said, okay, let's get married. I said okay,
and then we ended up getting married three weeks later
in New Orleans and that was it. And then coming
home from the honeymoon because the actors were on strike.
I was going back to taxing. I thought, what if
I just don't. I'm married a total stranger to me,
(23:02):
you know. It was like crazy. But he was so
fascinating and so loving and so full of demons that
if you're not somebody who is exposed to demons a lot,
you think like, I'll fix it. I'm going to take
care of it. Twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You're very young. Yeah, everything you do in your twenties
is a moment. Yeah. No.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I have three theories of marriage. The first one is
marriages like making waffles. You throw the first one out, okay.
The second one is marriage is finding that special certain
someone you just know you'd love to aggravate the rest
of your life, because marriage is like, you know, all
these little, like diggy kind of things. And I said,
but no, the real theory Saint A. Zuberrie wrote something
(23:44):
and I added something to it, and that is you'll
have a happy marriage when you realize marriage isn't two
people gazing longingly into each other's eyes, but rather looking
out over the mountain in the same direction, with their
hands on each other's genitals. That's the part I added.
(24:05):
That's the part I added because you've got to have heat.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Oh that wasn't saint than zuber reed?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
No, no, sorry, So you got to have vision and heat.
So my first marriage was all heat, my second marriage
was all vision, and finally I have vision and heat in.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
My third marriage. Wow actress Mary Lou Henner. If you
like hearing about the lives of groundbreaking women in comedy,
check out my interview with Carol Burnett. Her hit variety
show ran for more than a decade in the late
sixties and seventies, and at the height of her success,
(24:41):
she had to tread carefully. In that era.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
The only one who really would speak up was Lucy.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
She was very strong.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
But it's not in my nature to take over confront
or anything.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
You know, if a sketch wasn't working or something, instead
of like gleaes and or Sid would say, look, guys,
this stinks.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Now, come on, you got to fix it.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
But but you know they would do that.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
I would say, I'd call the writers down into the
rehearsal hall and I'd say, you know, guys, I'm not
doing this too well. Do you think maybe you could
help me out with a different line here or there?
Because you know, otherwise I would have.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Been a bit hear more of my conversation with Carol
Burnett in our archives that Here's Thething dot org. After
the Break, Mary Lou Henner talks about how a change
she made and her approach to auditioning completely opened up
her career. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's
(25:52):
the Thing. Mary lou Henner is passionate about encouraging people
to take charge of their happiness and well being. She's
written several best selling books on living a healthy lifestyle,
often sharing lessons that changed her own life.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
What happened was, I went with Jerry Katzman, who's the
head of William Morse at the time. He said, you
have to write a book. I'm hooking you up with
Judith Reagan. So Judith and I met at lunch and
we hung out together all day and everything. I had
a book deal, so I started working on my autobiography.
She is a character, and when she started her own imprint,
she said to me, you have to write a health
book because you're in such good shape of this. You
(26:30):
changed so much since blah blah blah. Every time I
have anything wrong with me, my kids, I call you,
and you always seem to know the answer. So I
was doing the show Chicago on Broadway, and one of
the guys said, oh, why don't you give us like
some lectures. I was like okay. So in between shows,
I would do these seminars and I'd have a little,
you know, like tape recorder, and I'd be, you know,
(26:51):
talking to them, and then I'd be putting on my
eyelashes like the evils of dairy products, you know, as
I'm putting on my eyelashes to go do roxy. And
so then I worked with some who was like a
real crafts person in terms of like books, and I
was so revved up from all the fossy and my
boys were very little, so I could like give them
a bath, go to the theater, be revved up, go
(27:11):
to an office and work on the book. And a
few weeks after the show ended, the book came out
and it went on the New York Times bestseller list.
And I've sold over a million copies of that first
health book. But then got a contract to keep going
and going and going. So then I've done ton what's.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Your biggest health concern? You know, we're growing up in
my lifetime, everybody was always saying, you know, don't smoke,
and then when I went through my drug phase, people
said you got to get sober and stop taking all
these drugs and drinking, which I've had a very relatively
brief but white hot period of that for a couple
of years in the eighties when I was very young,
(27:49):
and then as I've gotten older. You know, the thing
that shocks me, that is the utter poison in my
life is sugar. Because I was pre diabetic and now
I'm full diabetic. Has been so gotten married for me?
For me, Yeah, what's your health concerns now? Like, what
do you say to yourself? I never eat. I sometimes
(28:09):
eat every now and then I cheat and I allow
myself to eat. When you want to treat yourself to
something that you know isn't the best possible thing for you,
is it something sweet? Is something? No? No?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
No?
Speaker 3 (28:18):
If I'm a savory person, no, I would say probably
sushi is like my own, my last not so guilty pleasure. Yeah.
But I haven't had dairy since August fifteenth, nineteen seventy nine.
It was a Wednesday I gave up dairy and have
never had dairy since. And it changed my life. So
I'm always trying to get people off of deser.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
What was the impact? Oh, the sinuses and congestion you here, but.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Well that's a lot, but you know, through sore throats
and stomach aches all the time. When I lived in
New York, I'd live near zay Bars, and I would
go pick up cheese ends, you know at zay bars
where they'd cut the cheese a certain way and then
they have the little the little rind and stuff. And
I'd buy these little cheese bags, cheese ends bags on
my way to unemployment and wondered, why am I not
working when I'm fat, constabated and have been impulsed, you know,
(28:59):
I mean the whole stomach changed after I gave up dairy.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I used to be an ice cream addict. I was
like Brando. Yeah, and they say that brand would sit
with like a half a gallon of ice cream and
watch TV and you have like a big jug of
ice cream and lay in his bed and just with
a spoon and eat like a half a gallon of
ice cream. That wasn't that that?
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah? But Darry is always the first thing I talk
to people about. Always. That's been on my that's my
soapbox speech. Immediately with people especially, I can read people's
faces and tell that they're like allergic to it or
something like that, or they've had trouble. But the big
killer right now, I think for everybody is the whole
stress management people. Really, you know, I say three things.
Learn to love the food that loves you. And we
(29:36):
know what doesn't love us. Learn to love the food
that loves you. It's very obviously what does Dairy did
not love me, Meat did not love me. Sugar does
not love meat, nor does it love you obviously, So
I say, learn to love the food that loves you.
I say motion is the lotion, because we've got to move.
You know, your cap stretches, your dogs, you walk your dogs.
Your hamster's got a wheel with this beautiful human animal.
(29:58):
You've got to walk, you got to do. You gotta move, move, move,
Motion is the lotion. And then I also say, you
better fall in love with your stress or it's going
to kill you. Because if I give I go all
over the country.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Stress, you better I can't fall in love with my stress.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Well yeah, I mean it's but no, you have to,
I always say, because I give speeches all over the country.
I'm always like asked to give you know, could go
to different things, seminars and stuff. And I always say,
if every one of you in this audience wrote down
your problems on a piece of paper and I collected
them and I started reading them out, and you had
to pick some problems that are on a list, you'd
all take back your own because you know the beast,
(30:36):
you know how to handle it. You just might not
be doing it well.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I always tell people whenever i'm especially when i'm speaking
to people in this profession. Number One, find out how
much you love acting itself, because you're going to get
to do so little of it. Oh, the life of
the actor is all this other bullshit. You know, the
rest of the year and you're in front of a camera,
what forty five minutes a day, an hour a day.
The rest is sitting in your room. You do the show,
it's two hours a night. If you're inclined to do theater,
(31:02):
and I said, you don't need to find that how
much you love it. And number two, if you're in
get into it. Don't do what I did, which is
to be like fuck la and fuck you, and I
think you're all full of shit. And you know, this
whole thing is just this business is full of shit.
Be a part of it. Join the academy, go to
the screening, be a part of the business, and don't
be cynical about it. And if not, then get out.
(31:22):
Get out.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
I always say, if something, do you or don't do it.
If someone can talk you out of it, let it,
because otherwise you have to really really want to do it.
And also I always say to people, look fall in
love with auditioning because it might be the only ten
minutes you have that job. So if you do it,
you know what I mean, then it's like your job
for ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
And maybe you remember all these people from the TV
star shelf that we always talk about. Gregory Harrison, who
did an interview wants to change My life Gregory Harrison.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I mean, we did Jack Nicholson and Margaret parts in
Cardinal Knowledge at the Pasadena Playhouse. We played those parts,
so we saw each other naked in a shower. Yeah,
oh my.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
God, I'm sure you both look pretty good. We do,
We still do. I he did an interview once years ago,
was a million years ago, like TV Guide or some
stupid thing, and he did an interview where he said, basically,
I'm paraphrasing. He was like, you know, his whole energy changed,
his whole career changed when he walked into auditions and
his attitude was like, how can I help you? Like
(32:25):
you called me here right. I didn't put a gun
to your head and make you, but it comes audition
me for this part. I have something you want? Yes,
you're looking for something and whether and once he stopped
giving the energy of like oh and being fawning and obsequious,
then everything changed.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
It's so funny you're saying this because I tell a
story in my show again about how I auditioned for
forty commercials before I got one and the reason I
finally got one, and then I booked seventy two and
two and a half years. It was quite crazy. I
was doing commercials constantly, but it took me forty auditions
to get my first one. Because on the thirty ninth
a friend of mine called me and it was for
(33:00):
mister Coffee. I still remember the jingle and I had
to sing it. I was so wrong for the part,
but he called me in and he called me that
night and he said he knew I was having trouble
with auditions, and he said, are you this way the
way you were today with me in your auditions? And
I went, oh, my gosh, no, are you kidding. I
was just so myself because you were there. He said,
we almost changed the whole concept of the commercial because
(33:21):
you were so original. He said, that's what you have
to do every time you go into an audition. Stop
giving people what you think they want. Just go in
there and it's going to hit. It's going to hit.
And he was right. And then I booked one right
after the other and I became this body parts model
and it was just like crazy that I did a
lot of different parts of the body.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I was, which parts of the body did you do?
Which party? This is in my show? I said.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
I did four playtext Brad commercials. You know it's got
sash here and seamless support to play text panties.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
You were wearing a bra, you were a bra model.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I was a bra model, but sometimes I had like
a shirt on, you know, and you could see certain things.
But it was just like I'm like, well exactly. And
then I did two play text panties commercials or all
you saw was my butts and they were cracked.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But these were separate commercials, separate. The bra and the
panty were two. He was a separate shoots because if
I was the producer, that's what I would have said, said,
and we need to shoot these separately, and we need
to shoot them over five days four and I did
do yes.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
And then I said, but all you see is my button,
my crotch, walking my dog, walking around Lincoln Center getting
on a bus. Well, the polaroids when you walk into
the audition for a panties commercial, it's amazing because you
see all these polaroids of just people's crotches and butts
and side views and everything else. And then I was
even the Fruit of the Loom pantyhose girl inside of
a giant apple with my legs sticking out. And so
(34:42):
I did like different carts. But then I also did
like I did an exce on Bicentennial Minute where I
played Annie Sullivan. I got a Cleo nomination for that.
And I did everything from Reese's peanut butter to gleam toothpaste,
so many different times. I was the Ponderosa Steakhouse girl,
the samson I luggage girl. So I just kept doing
and doing it. And doing it because every time and
I learned this the heart, I mean, I learned the
(35:03):
hard way. You walk in and you'd bring something to it,
like Gregory says, how can I help you? Let me
show you something like I would do with it.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
But what did you study at you Chicago? You studied theater.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
No, they had a theater department, but they had no
theater degree.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
So even though I was kind of course, did you
take so? I?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
No, I was a political science major and so and
the first two years is mostly the core curriculum.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
So where did you learn to sing and dance? Well?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
I grew up in the dancing studio, and I always
sang because my two older sisters were in choir and
stuff like that. So I'd go to their practices and stuff,
and it was just something I always wanted, you know.
I was on stage at two and a half at
a father doma.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
In Chicago, like a pinnacle for you? Is that a
big dream? Country?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
That was a big gream. They called me on March
the four, nineteen ninety seven, Walter, whom I knew from
the Greece family, and they called me and they said
Annie Ranking is leaving Chicago. And she thinks she'd be
a good replacement. What kind of dance shape are you in?
And I said, ooh, I haven't had my legs up
over my head except for childbirth or a good weekend
(36:02):
for about five years, so I better get my ass
back into class. So I went to class for ten
days and then I went to audition and then he
said go home, work on the fosse, and I did.
And I went back and there were like twenty seven
potential actors in the room and they kept eliminating, eliminating
until they told me I had the job. So I
did four hundred and eight performance, four hundred and eight
(36:24):
performance on Broadway Broadway, but I also did Vegas because
they asked me to come to Vegas and I was like, no,
I don't want to go to Vegas. And then my
agent said, well, let's have some fun with your quote.
And then he called me back. He said, they made
you an offer you can't refuse. You're going to Vegas.
It was like okay, So I went to Vegas. But
my favorite Vegas story because people always said, what's the
difference between Broadway and Vegas? Although it's not this anymore,
(36:44):
I'd say, oh yeah, Cup holders, because back then you
could this was ninety nine and two thousand you couldn't.
You could drink in Vegas, but you couldn't do it
on Broadway. So I'd been there two weeks and they
said we love you here. I said, really, you've the
show and I was like all excited. He said, no,
I haven't seen the show yet, but your crowd drinks
a lot more Belvedere than most people.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Okay, we love Velvitere. Yeah, I'll never forget. Someone was
connected to like one of these big phizzy musicals and
they were doing like some kind of a cast replacement
and they wanted all this stunt casting with somebody famous.
And this actress walks into audition for the lead role.
She's this famous actress, and she comes in and she
does her audition and she leaves and everyone's just kind
(37:31):
of standing there slack joe. After she leaves, and the
director turns over and goes, she can't sing, she can't dance,
she can't act. She's a star, you know, like we're
gonna hire her even though she has She gets a
D or an F in all three categories based on
what they saw there in that room that day.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
It's so funny because there's all these stories that you
know that sort of shape your life, like that one,
you know, and you just write, you hear it and
you understand it and you know it right away. When
I was first on Taxi is somebody at ABC. He goes,
I've got a movie for you, Mary Lou. I said, really,
what is it? And he said Sizzle? I said, what's
it about? He said, who cares sizzle? So Johnny and
(38:10):
I always used to say we would like jokers, like
people were like you, who cares sizzle?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
You know, it's just that thing that you do. New
York Times best selling author Mary Lou Henner. If you're
enjoying this conversation, be sure to subscribe to Here's the
Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. When we return, Mary Lou Henner talks
(38:35):
about finding lasting love the third time around. I'm Alec
Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing. Mary Lou Henner
recently developed and performed a one woman autobiographical Shoe. It's
(39:01):
filled with songs and stories from her remarkable life.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
I sing a song about my sons and show a
video of like pictures of them and little videos. Oh
it kills me every time if I watch it, I'll
cry just thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I cry.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
And it's a mash up between nick of Time because
you know, it's funny Nicky took me three and a
half years to get pregnant. Joey like immediately I didn't
get my period. It was like Bam, I'm pregnant again.
So he and so I do nick of Time and
happiness is just a thing called joe and that's it.
And also I sing a song about Freddie, my first husband.
I do Desperado because that's kind of who he was
(39:36):
in my life. And that song always gets to me too.
So it's like tell telling some of those type stories
and talking about Bird was very emotional to a couple
of times. So it depends, you know, it depends on
the crowd.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
When you come and you're gonna camp, bet he is
your husband going to come with you?
Speaker 3 (39:49):
He comes? Yeah, he's great. Oh he's another whole story.
You know, we wrote a book. We got together. He
was my roommate's boyfriend. I didn't dare twinkle in his direction.
But then when he called me out of nowhere six
months after my divorce from Rob was final. We got
together within a week. We're saying I love you, We're
going to spend the rest of our lives together. And
two months later he's diagnosed with two cancers, bladder cancer
(40:10):
and lung cancer. And we ended up doing a whole
protocol for him that didn't involve chemo or radiation. They
wanted to remove his bladder, his prostate, run a hose
up his penis and we could pump it up six
times if we wanted to have sex. They were they
were pushing all of this. I was like, no, and
we always say.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
This is he's done with the pump by the way
he finishing.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Don't do it for fun. No, he doesn't need the
pump at all. No, my husband, thanks, No, No, not
at all. He saved all of his organs. He saved
his organs and he's been in remission. It'll be eighteen
years November the twenty fourth. It's pretty remarkable. And he
didn't he did immunotherapy, but he went completely vegan, and
he went got rid of I mean he did everything.
(40:49):
He shot himself with iscador, which is extract of mistletoe.
He got rid of all of the mercury, fillings in
his mouthculation therapy, high colonics, lymphatic massages, infrared saunas, and
he stayed on this protocol and he has been in
remission almost eighteen years. It's pretty remarkable, you know, pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
When I went to the doctor and he was going
to do the anterior hip replacement process, and he says
to me, now, I want to just review with you
that you know that that when you do the anterior procedure,
when we go in the front as opposed to the side,
it's the quickest to heal. But there are some complications.
Is like point zero two percent that we're going to
nick some nerves in there. There's some material to it.
And I said, what nerve? He took his finger and
he went like this, no, And I turned her mind
(41:30):
and said, oh, you can just tear that out just right.
I'm done. You can just yank that, get a pair
of pliers, and I've done with that.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Sex come on you. And we have an expression in
my family PF. Okay, we have this expression. My brothers
and I made it up and it's like measures the
sexual cuotient of things like oh man, there was so
much PF at that party, or man, I saw that
movie no PF between the two of them, and PF
stands for pussy factor or penis factor, right, because things
have PF, you know. And I don't like BD for
(41:58):
big dick energy because that is sexist and sizest, do
you know what I mean? But you and Hilaria obviously
have tons of PF. Obviously six kids, but you still
want to have You're still going to have PF.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Even I want you. I don't want to retire from that,
but yeah, please, but six kids, it's really been. It's
been like a super six and eight years is yeah,
six kids in seven.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Years, seven years and seven years old. Oh that's right,
seven years. You know. I don't know if you remember
this day, but we were all all the kids because
Ireland is close to my Joey's age. He's born November twelfth,
nineteen ninety five, so she's like the month. So we
were all at a meet because Joey was like the
real athlete in the family. But Joey was at this meet,
(42:38):
and Caitlyn Jenner was there and her kids and you know,
Ireland and my Joey and they were all doing their
sports thing. And you walked up to my son, Nick,
who was about thirteen at the time, fourteen at the time,
And you said, and what are you going to be
besides the Ralph Lauran model, because he's very cute.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
What is he doing now?
Speaker 3 (42:58):
He's a director. He's a director. He went to Columbia
and he directs all these videos. And he directed this
short that has now been bought by Will Ferrell's company
and he's turned it into a two hour movie and
he might be directing it, we'll see. But it looks good.
Can I just say what my son Joey's doing too?
Because he's yes, okay, because I said about Nick. So
Joey lives in Brooklyn. He does his improv troupe that
(43:20):
they do whatever. But he's an international bridge player. He's
one of the top bridge players in the world under
twenty five, and he became a life master at twenty four.
And he has all these women that he plays bridge
with and they pay a lot of money to play
with him because he's so cute. And he's writing a
script called Bridge Jiggelow because I have a comedy writer
(43:40):
and I have a director.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Telling telling me should read Jonathan Ames's book The Extra
Man that was made into a film with Kevin Klein
and Paul Dano, and that's your son, the Paul Danel.
He is a character because it's about a boy that
meets like a guy who's like a walker. He's like
a male prostitute and he doesn't necessarily sleep with the women,
but he's like he like takes old of these old
(44:05):
biddies to like Palm Beach, Cotillions and all the show.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I don't think are thinking that my son is talking
about them as old biddies, because you know, someone who
knows not his not his bridge party.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Anyway, My love to you, and I look forward to
seeing you in New York.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Okay, give my love to your kids. And you're one.
Sometimes it's called Mary Lou.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
I know, so.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
I forgot that.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
I know we literally they my wife calls are Mary Lou.
I know she does Maria Luthia, but my wife calls
her Mary Lou.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
It's on the back of her little high chair. I know.
See I pay attention. Well, my name is Mary, Lucy, Denise,
ce Celia, Hannah Forrest, Lieberman Brown.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Good luck vision and heat, good luck on that chair.
My love to you, sweet We'll talk to you down
the road, okay. Actress and author Mary Lou Henner. This
episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, Carrie Donahue, Maureen Hobin,
and Zach MacNeice. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. I'm Alec Baldwin.
(45:10):
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