August 15, 2023 • 42 mins
Our summer tradition at Here’s the Thing continues, as staff members choose their favorite conversations from the archives for our Summer Staff Pick series. This week, we revisit Alec’s 2021 interview with Mick Fleetwood, drummer and founding member of Fleetwood Mac, one of the most successful rock bands of all time and creators of enduring hits like “Landslide,” “Dreams,” and “Don’t Stop.” Fleetwood talks to Alec about how his dyslexia led him to drumming, how supportive parents encouraged his talent and his move to London as a teenager, how his friendship with the band’s founder, guitarist Peter Green, evolved to a life-long friendship, and how Fleetwood Mac balanced the weight of their interpersonal dynamics and the band’s wild, over-the-top success.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's
the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's officially summer, and that
means it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing,
where our staff shares their favorite episodes in our Summer
Staff series. Next up is our engineer Frank Imperial.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thanks Alec. When trying to choose one of my favorite
episodes from the archives, it didn't take long to land
on Mick Fleetwood, the drummer of Fleetwood Mac. It's one
of the most popular episodes in our history. With good reason.
Here's Alex's twenty twenty one conversation with Mick Fleetwood.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
You say we want agree?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That is, of course Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to
a TikTok of some guy on a skateboard who goes
by the name Dogface lip syncing to this song and
his seventy two million views, Fleetwood Mac's album Rumors broke
through Rolling Stone's top one hundred list again last year,
(01:05):
more than forty years after its release. My guest today
is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood
Mac existed for nearly a decade before the lineup. We
think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John mcvee, Lindsey Buckingham,
Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood Mac formed
(01:26):
in London in the late nineteen sixties, it was Peter
Green's idea.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Well, I would be remiss. Peter Green start at Fleetwood Mac,
the original guitar player. I was at his right hand side,
John McVie. All of us have played in the band
called John Male's Blues Breakers, Eric McK taylor, Peter Green.
And I'm saying that because they would represent great guitar
players that came out of that band that have more
(01:54):
than made their mark in my world. And so Peter
asked me to play drums. Already had played with them
in a funny band with Rod Stewart for a short while,
so we won't go into that. So it was really
a team of people that Peter John McVie especially came
out of a pedigree which was absolute devotion to an
(02:16):
art form, the blues. And really all our heroes were
American blues artists. And you are well aware I can
tell about the irony of a bunch of funny little
white kids in England really preserving an art form that
had long since been you know, I won't use the
bad word, but you know, pooped on by the American
(02:39):
sort of glossing over of something that was so evident.
So we were all from that framework, and when we
formed Fleetwood Mac, it was all about our lovely, semi
innocent way of emulating our heroes. And if you listen
to the first few albums that we before Peter especially
(03:01):
started really writing, like when you look at early Rolling Stones,
it's Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry and with anyone, you
see the development into self expression, and that's what transpired afterward.
But the original band was all about that and a
little team of people sharing something and having a lot
(03:22):
of fun with it, you know, creatively that turned into
something a little bit more than we ever could have
possibly have imagined.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
The year that you formed the band with Green, what
year was that?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Nineteen sixty seven Windsor Jazz Festival, and the band was
called Fleetwood Mac by Peter Green, who could have very
easily become the Jeff Beck or the Jimmy Page or
the Eric Clapton gunslinger guitar player. That's a whole nother story,
is a lovely story, and an attribute to Peter's generosity.
(03:56):
We played the Windsor Jazz Festival intended as you can tell,
with the name of Fleetwood Mac the name was my
name and John McVie, which Peter chose, and John was
still playing in John Mayle's Blues Breakers on the same show.
Watched the band he's supposed to be in from from
the side of the stage, and about three months later
(04:20):
he joined. He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with
whatever amount of money he does have. So when we
had enough gigs, he said, I'm ready to join, which.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Was when you've made it worth my while.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, it worth my way.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I know there'll be no net loss in my income.
I join you. I'll meet you there at the club.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah. And that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And when you say that Green could have been in
this pantheon of great guitar players, was this something he
didn't want, that he did not want that level of
fame and that level of attention.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
No, it was very evident. And the end story, which
of course went into a very changed person. He was
my dearest of dearest of friends and my mentor. You know,
he gave me so much encouragement as a player and
super fun person, but unbelievably deep down, way more sensitive
(05:10):
than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized.
And he eventually became sick and so came to a
sort of journey that was for a while was a
living tragedy for me selfishly, but then you learned to
accept him as he turned out. But back then everything
he did was about being just really generous. And I
(05:36):
read an article after you know, you think, well, what
was the real story? And for instance would be that
someone asked him why was the bank or fleet with
Mac and he said, well, I figured at that point
i'd broken up with my lovely girlfriend Jenny, who I
later married, and I had played with Peter, and he
(05:57):
had his eyes on another drummer as a turned out,
and he said, why did you pick Mick? And of
course my little less than self would have thought, well,
maybe you thought I was a good drummer, you know.
And what it was, he said, I wanted Mick to
play the drums cause I got so fed up with
seeing him so sad that I thought it would give
(06:18):
him something to do. And I thought that was the
greatest thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend,
and that really sums it up about how it was
not about him, and he created a platform which served me.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Well.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
My father was an Air Force chap so the word
to serve, to serve, well, that's what I think I
learned to do with all of how the madness of
this band and the incarnates of just are you kidding
me that if you wrote this down, you say, it's
not possible this bunch could possibly have survived with all
(06:54):
of the ups and downs and character changes and changing
the script as you go along, and yet there's still
a story. Peter started that and handed that to me.
I think when he welcomed everyone, including me, Danny Kerwin
who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer, they were all
there so that Peter did not want to be king
(07:18):
Tut in the front there taking all the limelight, and
I think it was way more meaningful in sense of
where he came from. It's just he wanted to be
in a band, and he created that band and made
sure the band was not called Peter Greens anything, because
he could of very easily, and I always thank him
for that. The name Fleetwood Mac he was asked and
(07:40):
he said, well, I always thought that I would probably
move on, which he did under very strange circumstances, unfortunately
for us. And he said I wanted Mick and John
to have something. And I saw and heard this interview
years and years and years and years later, like finding
(08:00):
out a family relative will tell you what the real
story was, and sometimes it's mind blowing and sometimes it's
hugely moving and gratifying to hear. And that was one
of them.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You didn't start drumming till you were thirteen, correct.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Officially, but yeah, I would say I started hitting furniture
when I was about eight.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
What changed when you were thirteen that you were like,
I want a drum now? On a serious level, what changed?
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
I would think that first of all, being completely on
some shape or form, completely dyslexic, and had not one
iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So there
I was struggling with great parents. So I never felt
threatened or less than that. I couldn't. I still don't
(08:48):
know my alphabet or I mean, if my whole family
was lined up, God forbid and said.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You don't have to.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Yeah, well I know, but a lot of people say
you're kidding me. It's a lot of people say about
what I do when I play drums. I said, actually,
I sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to
tell you the real truth, and they go, well, it's not.
Then they start arguing with you, go, how can you
do that? You're full of shit? You know, you know?
I said, no, no, it just comes out. I have
(09:15):
no idea, so I blundered into it. But I would
think that the love and the one thing that I
could grab onto was the fact that I for some reason,
I used to play tapping on furniture, which I mentioned
to back in Norway when I was much younger and
we'd traveled to Egypt. So I remember these leather little
(09:35):
funny we call them tufto's or something, things stuffed with
newspaper that sound really cool their leather. They're the sort
of Ottoman things. And I Mum would listen to the
home service and do the cleaning and have a Dubonne
and have a one cigarette of the day. This is
when I was probably about six or seven in Norway,
(09:58):
and I remember listening to the radio and tapping on
I don't know why on furniture, but Daddy used to
tap on coins and do military things in his pocket,
and he would play bottles with water in them at parties.
So I vaguely remember that. I don't think that's why
I did it, but I think my quantum leap was
(10:19):
a blessing and it was like a divine intervention of
sorts that the one thing I loved doing. I had
this obsession with collecting drum catalogs and fantasies of gold
and sparkling instruments that you were in my dream. So
at boarding school the last thing I did, I had
this whole package filled with brushures that opened one to
(10:41):
the other, and I think I saw my way out.
And when Dad said do you want to go to college,
and he didn't have any money, but he was obviously
making it available for me, and with tears in our eyes,
and I said, Daddy, I want to go to London
and play drums. And by that time I had had
my little drum kit, almost a toy drum kit, in
(11:03):
the house. And I think it was my learning disability
that drove me. By some happen sence, both my sisters
went into the arts. One was a very fine actress,
Susan with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and my elder sister
was an art student at the Polytechnic, so we were
all completely academically useless. So I had the blessing that
(11:26):
Mom and dad said, then, my god, it's probably the
only one thing he really thinks he can do. And
that was he encouraged you absolutely just I had complete
and utter, not one iota of any cynicism whatsoever, and
they sent me off with a drum kit to London
wrapped in a blanket. My father wrote a poem about.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
It, mckfleetwood. If you love conversations with iconic musicians who
also happen to be members of long lasting bands, be
sure to check out my conversation with The Who's legendary
frontman Roger Daltrey from our archives. Daughtrey talked about the
first time he swung a microphone around on stage. No
(12:09):
one told me. I got used to myself once they.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
Went into the free form in the early days in
the late sixties. It just came out of boredom I was.
I couldn't stand there and be like Robert Plant. I
wasn't cool enough. I just needed to dance, So I
didn't want to dance like an ordinary dancer. So I
just started to play with it and it just got
bigger and energy and channel the energy. And then Pete
(12:33):
started jumping and that legendary jump of him. He's like
a kangaroo. And but the whole thing was kind of
in with the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it.
It was kind of extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Here the rest of my conversation with Roger Daltrey and
here's the Thing dot Org. After the break we talk
about the women who became essential to the group's sound.
(13:16):
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
That's Christine mcvee performing the Songbird. Mcvee joined Fleetwood Mac
in nineteen seventy when Peter Green left. She'd married John
(13:37):
mcvee a couple of years before. Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie
Nicks joined in nineteen seventy five. I wanted to know
if when Christine joined there was any pressure to include
a woman.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Well, Christine, for sure, any lovely lady out that would
not take it wrong. She was a musician, and she
was a great piano player, and her experience was already
integrated with being I'm a player and It was nothing
of the sort that it was a woman or a man.
(14:11):
It was just who you are and what you do. Truly,
it was that and she cherishes that to this day
because we call her the rock.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
She's like, she doesn't rely on anything other than no
prissy stuff. I am who I am, and am I
delivering what you need? And she has that respect. So
she came into the band as a player, literally, and
there was no thought she knew John, which had nothing
to do with it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Is your name really perfect? Is it Christine perfect? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
And John would say she was perfect before she married me.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, Jack, So.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
That was really it. It was not about having a
lady in the bout we need a girl, No, it
was about really really great musician, bloody good piano player.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true,
which is that in that world there is nobody who
casts on me like Christine mcne I mean, I love
her singing beyond believe. I mean she does something to
me that I can't even describe. She's her bir singing
is so beautiful, you.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Know, So I can second that, right right, right.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So she's with you in the band, and then you
decide to have another woman join the band. So Buckingham,
you asked him to join the band.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, Bob Welch had left at rather short notice, and
I knew Bob extremely well, really lovely, hugely interesting chap.
So he left. But prior to that, I've been in
the studio sound City to try and find a studio
to record the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he leaves
(15:51):
and I meet Stevie and Lindsay after the fact, having
heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio part of the
Buckham Nick Nick's album that he'd made with them, the album,
and then Bob left. Then I made a phone call
and I said, you know that music you were playing?
Who What?
Speaker 6 (16:09):
How?
Speaker 4 (16:10):
And you're right, I was looking for a guitar player.
So I forever have Stevie to this day in a
comedic sense, but always with a knife in my back
that it wasn't really me that you wanted, it was Lindsay,
which was true, and in very short form, Lindsay made
it very clear that if he was to join, which
(16:32):
was not a slam dunk at the beginning, because he
and Stevie were thinking about going forward in their own world,
and she actually persuaded Lindsay to join the band pretty much.
She got fed up with waiting tables and stuff, so
she came somewhat originally by default, and yet not because
(16:53):
the real story is it was very evident early on.
Although Stevie said, you know, loves to dig at me,
it was that, first of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal
to her and I'm not going to do this without her.
Boom over. Then it didn't take a rocket scientist to
realize these songs, these beautiful songs were co written by
(17:16):
both Lindsay and Stevie. And then you listen to the
vocal blend, which is none other than going like when
you hear the Everly Brothers, you go like, oh my god,
that this joined at the hip and they came in
short form into the band as a duo, which was
a merciful decision when I look back, that Lindsay did
(17:38):
not desert her and said I'm here, but I'm here
with my partner, and that's how that happened.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I've asked other very successful artists, such as yourself in
the music world, what does a producer do for you
when you're in a studio, when you're making a record,
who's the decider, who decides what take what track, this
vocal track, this drum track, whatever. But when you had
a collaboration with the producer that helped you, what did
they do for you?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Well, I think the simple form would be that we
as a band no matter what, which is not always
the case, and it's not always the magic formula. A
lot of people just totally excel by being guided and
permanently told what to do and have a mirror that's
a reflection from another aspect, another interpretation of really who
(18:27):
they truly are, And that's fine. That was so not
how we grew up into and blustered into what we
were doing. So I would say that anyone that's worked,
including Keith Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably
the most influential that he was a blues fanatic and
(18:49):
he ran that little label we were on called Blue
Horizon and after that, so he would be picking songs
here and there with Peter and the band. After that,
it's really about are you a band member meaning them?
How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not
insist but integrate right into the fabric of being in
(19:13):
a band. And that's what I would always look out for,
and I think that's been our success has been absolute
expression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's really
listening to and having an empathy with what am I
dealing with here, especially later on when we became very
(19:36):
much five separate, expressive people that whoever it was, you
have to look back on and give them huge amounts
of credit. Has been some form of a social director
more than an artistic director. And I lost all my
hair because I was both.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
But would you say, when you say five distinct beings,
there was a period when they weren't there were a
unit and they were a unit during what period? And
what was that like and what changed that? Musically?
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Well, Fleetwood Mac was already a stage that existed, and
Fleetwood Mac was always about change so that you were
accepted for who you were. Anyone should express themselves. You know,
when I look back on it, that's in a naive
way what I must have understood, especially being a drama
(20:31):
when you go, oh, what the hell am I going
to do if I don't have a front line and
people that are delivering the play. You know, not to
diminish who I am and what I am, but that
was my function probably more than anything. So they came
as different characters walking on that stage, and if you
(20:52):
see and hear the music, you go none of it
makes any sense. None of them were clones of anyone.
They were all completely their own entity. So what they
had to learn.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Was to be in a band.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Everyone was extremely unhappy emotionally on the making of rumors
and Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's tough. You know,
no one ever intended to leave or anything. But one
time I remember sitting in the studio at the record
plant with Lindsay and he just turned around and said,
I don't know where I can do this, you know,
it's just, you know, we're in transition here. And his
(21:31):
interpretation was can I be in a band? Can I
be in a band? Especially with the pressure of is
this what it's like being in a band? You're emotionally exposed?
And everyone was. We were all in you know, I'm
drifting into the area where we promised we wouldn't go.
But so I just sat with him and he was
playing a setar I remember it distinctly, and I said,
(21:54):
then you must go. If it's self preservation don't destroy that.
Don't destroy us because of the play in essence, Peter Green. Yeah,
And I said, I don't have any ultimate apart from
if it's that bad, then you have to go. And
then I segued and I said, this is what it is.
Everything is a compromise. When you're walking on a stage
(22:17):
and sharing that that stage and this is that stage,
and I'm not forcing you. I'd extremely sad if halfway
through an album you just can't finish it out. And
he didn't say much. He just said I understand, and
he stayed.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
A guy once said to me, and he was much
younger than me, and this is maybe like ten years ago.
I was in my early fifties. It was in the
lines of advice to him for his career, and I said, well,
do you really want like the cold, hard, unvarnished You
want it with the bark On or the bark off? Yeah,
And I said, if you want it with the bark On,
then don't get married till you're forty, don't have any
(22:55):
kids to your forty, give yourself you're not just your
twenties but your thirties. Give this everything thing you have.
If you want to be an actor, with a real
prime If you want to be Leo DiCaprio, you want
to be a guy who's like at the top of
the pile and making movies with the best directors, the
best scripts. Everything's the best, the budgets, the release dates, everything.
If you want to surf that wave all the way
to the shore, then you have to make this the
(23:17):
most important thing in your life. Do you find that
that was true for you as well?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
I think in retrospect we didn't know because you're in it.
But as a comment, I think it's entirely correct and
proven out in no uncertain terms of time and time
and time and time and time and time.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Again.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Are the miracles that slip through and survive like a
built in version of what you've just said. In terms
of advice, yeah, few and far between. It really puts
a wall that you don't even realize that you're putting up,
where you're so into what you're doing that people get
left out and feel pushed away. So ideally, I think
(23:57):
your advice is entirely correct, but that advice is always
almost in retrospect for anyone.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's but I'm wondering also with three men, I mean
asleep with mac is most renowned for its three men
and two women, and neither one of those women has children?
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Were they people that were going through life and they
were like, well, we're going to get to that, and
the next year they turned around they were like wow,
twenty five years wait by like nothing.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know, I would say if either Chris or Stevie,
I feel comfortable in this conversation saying there was no
doubt that they made that decision to dedicate their lives
to their careers with flashes of what if, But I
think both of these ladies would have no problems saying
(24:45):
that that was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah, yeah, interesting,
very interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Now when people ask me about my drug use, I
say that I snorted a line of cocaine from here
to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine on
the rings of sat and then we took it home
with another line.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Oh, I've got your beat. I'm sure I think your
description is that actually more far reaching than mine? A
planetary version, But my version of that would be and
I've never lived it down, but you know, I have
no problem at all apart from don go there. And
(25:26):
then you have the war stories which this is sort
of tending to be. And I'll preface it by saying
war stories are fine, but there's a time and place
and what can you learn from them would be my
little lesson for anyone listening. So having said that, my
transgression was, which was some awful interview I did, and
I said, well, I one time, you know, I was
(25:49):
in the studio and I'm talking about my Well, how
much coke do you think I've ever done? This was
like in our private world, and we measured out a
good semi fat line of cocaine and then duplicated it,
and then X amount of years, so in the lasting
something amount of years we actually worked it out instead
(26:09):
of cutting tape and editing the song together. We got
into a transgression of actually working out probably about how
long would that line be? And it was seven miles long, apparently,
And I never lived that down and years all, especially
in England, whether they love all that terrible stuff. And
(26:31):
I have to sit there not talking about if you'd
be like someone talking about something in your life versus
the play I'm in or the script I've just written
or the book I've just you know, and you go
you go like, well, live with it because you opened
your mouth in the first place all those years ago,
and mine would be one of probably quite a few
(26:54):
transgressions in terms of that. But comedically, so I still
get asked, you know, was it really seven miles long?
And I looked down to my trouser and go, well,
I wished.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
You know, I'm thirty five years sober. I got sober
a long time ago in la For you, did you
feel that when that stopped? Because for me, when it stopped,
there were good things, but there were also bad things
because you're forced to confront everything. You know, if you
are if you go out in the world and you
don't drink and you don't take drugs and minim commenting
on you, but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored,
(27:32):
and you need to go out and face the world
that you need to resolve all your problems. You can't
sit in the problem anymore. You've got to dissolve things
and confront things and clean up the masks and so forth.
And I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically
once you stopped abusing yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Well, I still drink, but the marching powder was a
massive part of my life for probably way over twenty years.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
God, it's a long time.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So that's a long time to have that.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Oh yeah, I was known as the king of tout
and everyone would always know that I wouldn't hold it,
you know. And then I did hit a brick wall
and it was like slow motion. And my mother Biddy
would always say, because they're hugely supportive, almost blindly supported, Oh,
it's no problem at all. Whenever he wants to stop,
(28:27):
he can stop it, you know, all those catchphrases. And
I always sort of thought that I could. And then
I hit a brick wall literally, and someone that I
shared my life with said, I'm I'm done. I can't
be around this anymore. And I said, please don't go
(28:48):
leave me alone for two days, and that's what I
did and never touched the stuff since overnight. It's divine intervention,
but it's also misplaced in terms of that. That's when
I probably should have gone into a program and found
out what you touched on, what were those reasons? And
(29:10):
I've done that since a couple of times with drink
and had a sort of a wake up call and
I just thought it was fun. I was around people
telling me literally countless horror stories of what had happened
to them, especially when there were children and young and
I had no support and all sorts of terrible things.
(29:32):
And I just said, I feel so terrible because I
just thought it was fun until it wasn't. And I
still actually haven't found the key of what was that.
My parents didn't drink unduly, had an incredible supportive childhood.
But that brick wall.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Was it insecurity about being in public? Maybe? Oh, I
think out there and being famous. I mean Fleetwood Mac.
I mean this music was coming out of every clamshell
on the beach for a while. Yeah, every horse in
the park was singing you can go your own way.
You know. It was like this music was everywhere, everywhere.
(30:11):
There were so many songs that were just washing over you.
It was like in the air all the time. Was
that unsettling for you? Fame and all that attention. Did
you need to medicate yourself to get through that period?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I would say immediately. Notice how quickly I went. No,
But I do get nervous about performing. If someone said
make a speech and read the speech to three thousand people,
I would be really put upon, go out on stage
and just talk to someone I love, not even a question.
(30:47):
I know people around me that all of the trimmings
of what you just mentioned would be. Was that something
that freaked you out? I have to say no, because
of the way I was brought up. It was just
fantastic and fun. But actually performing and delivering certain aspects,
(31:07):
I would have to say, did bring out a fundamental
some form of academic calling out that you don't know
quite what you're doing, and therefore you're shitting yourself. And
therefore I know for a fact. For years, and I
(31:29):
played sober for fifteen years, the real truth is I
didn't enjoy it. So when I play now, I have
one bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved,
and without it, I can't even breathe. And I've tried hypnosis,
(31:49):
I've tried everything known to mankind to get over it
and breathing, and I had a guy like meditating with
me on the road when I really really really really
really didn't drink. All I can say is that instead
of enjoying myself, I had my road manager with a
brown paper bag so I could breathe into it to
(32:09):
stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't enjoy it, and
it's because of the element, which has nothing to do
with fame and fortune. It's actually who are you? What
are you in the moment and being called out like
being in the class that I didn't I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Mcfleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there,
leave us a review. I really appreciate it. Few bands
have managed to survive longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we
return the surprising resurgence of interest in the band's nineteen
(32:50):
seventy seven album Rumors.
Speaker 6 (33:10):
Yes, the same kind of story.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It seems to come down long ago. That's the song
hypnotized recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac.
Mick Fleetwood has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for
more than fifty years. And as there's usually one person
in every long lasting band that brings them back together,
(33:32):
I asked who was that person for Fleetwood Mac.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
It would be me and and that was and is
and has been my function. I imaged it a while ago,
not not any big deal, but I'm going like, you know,
because I don't write, I don't sing, although I'm enjoying
doing some of that now, which is interesting, really actually
interesting to be able to make a private fool of
(33:58):
yourself with no pressure. I said, I think my story
would be and I'm really happy about it and quietly
proud of it. That my function was that I drifted
into it, I learnt it. And me and John always
wanted to have a band to be in. Why wouldn't you?
(34:21):
And I said, I think that story is my song.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You're a musical catalory. You can see so many beautiful songs.
It's beautiful music, and the poetry is beautiful, and the
lyrics it still moves you to this day.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Yeah. I take that as a lovely compliment on behalf
of all of us in this crazy band, and thank you.
And I think there is sometimes almost the lighthearted part
of Fleetwood Mac or whatever word one wants to use,
the sort of the poppy part of it was always
(34:57):
balanced out by a form of rev a form of
very often some romance of sadness and entertaining That type
of dialogue would be for me, is is songbird, and
there are, of course are others, But I remember when
Chris wrote that, and I actually spoke very recently to
(35:19):
her about it. We just drifted into a conversation and
she totally remembered, and I went, Chris, this is like
Edith Piaf on a stage alone and she was in
the studio at the record plant, and I said, this
needs to be lonely. We should record it in an
empty theater, not in a shag carpet studio. Let's go
(35:44):
and do that. And we did, and we went a
college over in Berkeley and recorded that song. As the
imaging of it was so devastating to me. I said,
you are alone. You are alone playing this lovely, lovely song,
and it should be all of that. And that's exactly
(36:04):
what we did. It was the most pregnant suite moment
around the song that I can tell in our short conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Some including Stevie Nix, And we've read about Dylan's going
to sell his catalog and David Crosby's getting ready to
sell his catalog. And I guess in this COVID era
and beyond, in the age of streaming music, people are
seeing sources of revenue dry up. Certainly some of these
people are older. You know, they're not selling their catalog
and they're in their thirties or whatever, But what do
(36:35):
you think of them?
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I think it's great. I'm sure it's not for everyone
or whatever, but I think the circumstances has triggered so
many things. This would be one of them. I think
those decisions may or may not have been made anyhow,
who's to say why not? And a body of work
that is to be quite frankly translated into all sorts
(36:59):
of lovely things for these people, whatever that might be.
Because the people you're talking about, they certainly don't need
any money for the most part. But no, let's say
we doubt it. So it becomes something that will grow
into all sorts of other things. One would imagine. What
(37:19):
they might be is their business, you know. And one
of the things I think is family. I think a
lot of people are handing down to family ahead of
time versus you know, people picking through when your God forbid,
whenever that moment comes. And to see family enjoying stuff
that can be allocated before you do pop off.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So, if I'm not mistaken, Rumors is a best selling
album again now as the direct result of some guy
on a skateboard swinging down cranberry juice. What did you think?
What did you think of when you first came across
the TikTok? Phenomenally right occurred.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
Well, I know him as Nathan. His online name is Dogface,
and it is quite unbelieveable. And all hell was breaking
loose because he made a decision one day to do
his thing. It happened in the most charming way. And
then someone said, well would you would you? I said, well,
(38:21):
I can't get on a skateboard, so I hung myself
off the back of a golf cart and did the thing.
And the next thing I know, we're all on you know,
halftime sports programs, and god knows what else. His whole
life has changed. And I actually loved it because it
was so not thought of. One of the lovely things
(38:43):
I was able to say on a zoom call. He
was doing an interview in England with some very upstanding
BBC chap and he had no idea I was going
to come on the zoom call. So that's when I
first met him, you know, face to face, And then
his family came on. They sang songs to me and stuff,
and I said, let me tell you Nathan Fleetwood Mac
(39:04):
os it's been a fantastic moment in time that when
a wall and typical Fleetwood mac just when you think
you know we've survived, we've been really lucky, you know,
in so many some of the things we've touched on
in our talk where against hopeless odds we've prevailed. And
(39:25):
I always joke about, especially with Lindsay Buckingham years ago.
I used to sit with him and go like, we
are the most abused rock and roll franchise in the world,
meaning we've never capitalized on anything. Really, we're all idiots.
But it's sort of good and we're still here.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
It's unbelievable. I mean again, I say this because it's easy,
and that is you're still here and people are picking
songs of yours to soundtrack their kind of playfulness, TikTok
and so forth, because the music is great. I mean
you and you're going back to hypnotized and Welsh. I
love Hypnotized, I love Mystery to Me, I love all
(40:09):
I love those early records. I play them to death.
I love everything guys, and then solo acts Christia, you know,
with Stevie's solo albums, blah blah, blah. I love it all,
but I mean you you live in people's hearts because
the music is that good. You guys made some of
the greatest music in the history of the music posiness.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
No, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I remember something
my father said, and it seems to really apply to
a lot of the storytelling about this funny life and
certainly Fleetwood Mac and the fact that there have been
all sorts of ups and downs and around the Marlbury
Bush and pain and a lot of happiness as well.
(40:51):
My dad would always say one thing, Nick, I can
tell you it's all been worth a damn And hearing
is say that about the music makes me feel that
it's all been worth a diamond.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Lots of love to you, and my love to you.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Mix Sleepwood, I've been.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Such more board of gold like a car the end
of the rain.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing from iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I'm not leave then You're bad, No, not you, I'm
(42:02):
I've got a bad sting of warm
This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's
the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's officially summer, and that
means it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing,
where our staff shares their favorite episodes in our Summer
Staff series. Next up is our engineer Frank Imperial.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thanks Alec. When trying to choose one of my favorite
episodes from the archives, it didn't take long to land
on Mick Fleetwood, the drummer of Fleetwood Mac. It's one
of the most popular episodes in our history. With good reason.
Here's Alex's twenty twenty one conversation with Mick Fleetwood.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
You say we want agree?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That is, of course Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to
a TikTok of some guy on a skateboard who goes
by the name Dogface lip syncing to this song and
his seventy two million views, Fleetwood Mac's album Rumors broke
through Rolling Stone's top one hundred list again last year,
(01:05):
more than forty years after its release. My guest today
is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood
Mac existed for nearly a decade before the lineup. We
think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John mcvee, Lindsey Buckingham,
Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood Mac formed
(01:26):
in London in the late nineteen sixties, it was Peter
Green's idea.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Well, I would be remiss. Peter Green start at Fleetwood Mac,
the original guitar player. I was at his right hand side,
John McVie. All of us have played in the band
called John Male's Blues Breakers, Eric McK taylor, Peter Green.
And I'm saying that because they would represent great guitar
players that came out of that band that have more
(01:54):
than made their mark in my world. And so Peter
asked me to play drums. Already had played with them
in a funny band with Rod Stewart for a short while,
so we won't go into that. So it was really
a team of people that Peter John McVie especially came
out of a pedigree which was absolute devotion to an
(02:16):
art form, the blues. And really all our heroes were
American blues artists. And you are well aware I can
tell about the irony of a bunch of funny little
white kids in England really preserving an art form that
had long since been you know, I won't use the
bad word, but you know, pooped on by the American
(02:39):
sort of glossing over of something that was so evident.
So we were all from that framework, and when we
formed Fleetwood Mac, it was all about our lovely, semi
innocent way of emulating our heroes. And if you listen
to the first few albums that we before Peter especially
(03:01):
started really writing, like when you look at early Rolling Stones,
it's Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry and with anyone, you
see the development into self expression, and that's what transpired afterward.
But the original band was all about that and a
little team of people sharing something and having a lot
(03:22):
of fun with it, you know, creatively that turned into
something a little bit more than we ever could have
possibly have imagined.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
The year that you formed the band with Green, what
year was that?
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Nineteen sixty seven Windsor Jazz Festival, and the band was
called Fleetwood Mac by Peter Green, who could have very
easily become the Jeff Beck or the Jimmy Page or
the Eric Clapton gunslinger guitar player. That's a whole nother story,
is a lovely story, and an attribute to Peter's generosity.
(03:56):
We played the Windsor Jazz Festival intended as you can tell,
with the name of Fleetwood Mac the name was my
name and John McVie, which Peter chose, and John was
still playing in John Mayle's Blues Breakers on the same show.
Watched the band he's supposed to be in from from
the side of the stage, and about three months later
(04:20):
he joined. He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with
whatever amount of money he does have. So when we
had enough gigs, he said, I'm ready to join, which.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Was when you've made it worth my while.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, it worth my way.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I know there'll be no net loss in my income.
I join you. I'll meet you there at the club.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah. And that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And when you say that Green could have been in
this pantheon of great guitar players, was this something he
didn't want, that he did not want that level of
fame and that level of attention.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
No, it was very evident. And the end story, which
of course went into a very changed person. He was
my dearest of dearest of friends and my mentor. You know,
he gave me so much encouragement as a player and
super fun person, but unbelievably deep down, way more sensitive
(05:10):
than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized.
And he eventually became sick and so came to a
sort of journey that was for a while was a
living tragedy for me selfishly, but then you learned to
accept him as he turned out. But back then everything
he did was about being just really generous. And I
(05:36):
read an article after you know, you think, well, what
was the real story? And for instance would be that
someone asked him why was the bank or fleet with
Mac and he said, well, I figured at that point
i'd broken up with my lovely girlfriend Jenny, who I
later married, and I had played with Peter, and he
(05:57):
had his eyes on another drummer as a turned out,
and he said, why did you pick Mick? And of
course my little less than self would have thought, well,
maybe you thought I was a good drummer, you know.
And what it was, he said, I wanted Mick to
play the drums cause I got so fed up with
seeing him so sad that I thought it would give
(06:18):
him something to do. And I thought that was the
greatest thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend,
and that really sums it up about how it was
not about him, and he created a platform which served me.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Well.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
My father was an Air Force chap so the word
to serve, to serve, well, that's what I think I
learned to do with all of how the madness of
this band and the incarnates of just are you kidding
me that if you wrote this down, you say, it's
not possible this bunch could possibly have survived with all
(06:54):
of the ups and downs and character changes and changing
the script as you go along, and yet there's still
a story. Peter started that and handed that to me.
I think when he welcomed everyone, including me, Danny Kerwin
who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer, they were all
there so that Peter did not want to be king
(07:18):
Tut in the front there taking all the limelight, and
I think it was way more meaningful in sense of
where he came from. It's just he wanted to be
in a band, and he created that band and made
sure the band was not called Peter Greens anything, because
he could of very easily, and I always thank him
for that. The name Fleetwood Mac he was asked and
(07:40):
he said, well, I always thought that I would probably
move on, which he did under very strange circumstances, unfortunately
for us. And he said I wanted Mick and John
to have something. And I saw and heard this interview
years and years and years and years later, like finding
(08:00):
out a family relative will tell you what the real
story was, and sometimes it's mind blowing and sometimes it's
hugely moving and gratifying to hear. And that was one
of them.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You didn't start drumming till you were thirteen, correct.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Officially, but yeah, I would say I started hitting furniture
when I was about eight.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
What changed when you were thirteen that you were like,
I want a drum now? On a serious level, what changed?
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (08:26):
I would think that first of all, being completely on
some shape or form, completely dyslexic, and had not one
iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So there
I was struggling with great parents. So I never felt
threatened or less than that. I couldn't. I still don't
(08:48):
know my alphabet or I mean, if my whole family
was lined up, God forbid and said.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You don't have to.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Yeah, well I know, but a lot of people say
you're kidding me. It's a lot of people say about
what I do when I play drums. I said, actually,
I sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to
tell you the real truth, and they go, well, it's not.
Then they start arguing with you, go, how can you
do that? You're full of shit? You know, you know?
I said, no, no, it just comes out. I have
(09:15):
no idea, so I blundered into it. But I would
think that the love and the one thing that I
could grab onto was the fact that I for some reason,
I used to play tapping on furniture, which I mentioned
to back in Norway when I was much younger and
we'd traveled to Egypt. So I remember these leather little
(09:35):
funny we call them tufto's or something, things stuffed with
newspaper that sound really cool their leather. They're the sort
of Ottoman things. And I Mum would listen to the
home service and do the cleaning and have a Dubonne
and have a one cigarette of the day. This is
when I was probably about six or seven in Norway,
(09:58):
and I remember listening to the radio and tapping on
I don't know why on furniture, but Daddy used to
tap on coins and do military things in his pocket,
and he would play bottles with water in them at parties.
So I vaguely remember that. I don't think that's why
I did it, but I think my quantum leap was
(10:19):
a blessing and it was like a divine intervention of
sorts that the one thing I loved doing. I had
this obsession with collecting drum catalogs and fantasies of gold
and sparkling instruments that you were in my dream. So
at boarding school the last thing I did, I had
this whole package filled with brushures that opened one to
(10:41):
the other, and I think I saw my way out.
And when Dad said do you want to go to college,
and he didn't have any money, but he was obviously
making it available for me, and with tears in our eyes,
and I said, Daddy, I want to go to London
and play drums. And by that time I had had
my little drum kit, almost a toy drum kit, in
(11:03):
the house. And I think it was my learning disability
that drove me. By some happen sence, both my sisters
went into the arts. One was a very fine actress,
Susan with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and my elder sister
was an art student at the Polytechnic, so we were
all completely academically useless. So I had the blessing that
(11:26):
Mom and dad said, then, my god, it's probably the
only one thing he really thinks he can do. And
that was he encouraged you absolutely just I had complete
and utter, not one iota of any cynicism whatsoever, and
they sent me off with a drum kit to London
wrapped in a blanket. My father wrote a poem about.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
It, mckfleetwood. If you love conversations with iconic musicians who
also happen to be members of long lasting bands, be
sure to check out my conversation with The Who's legendary
frontman Roger Daltrey from our archives. Daughtrey talked about the
first time he swung a microphone around on stage. No
(12:09):
one told me. I got used to myself once they.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
Went into the free form in the early days in
the late sixties. It just came out of boredom I was.
I couldn't stand there and be like Robert Plant. I
wasn't cool enough. I just needed to dance, So I
didn't want to dance like an ordinary dancer. So I
just started to play with it and it just got
bigger and energy and channel the energy. And then Pete
(12:33):
started jumping and that legendary jump of him. He's like
a kangaroo. And but the whole thing was kind of
in with the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it.
It was kind of extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Here the rest of my conversation with Roger Daltrey and
here's the Thing dot Org. After the break we talk
about the women who became essential to the group's sound.
(13:16):
I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.
That's Christine mcvee performing the Songbird. Mcvee joined Fleetwood Mac
in nineteen seventy when Peter Green left. She'd married John
(13:37):
mcvee a couple of years before. Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie
Nicks joined in nineteen seventy five. I wanted to know
if when Christine joined there was any pressure to include
a woman.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Well, Christine, for sure, any lovely lady out that would
not take it wrong. She was a musician, and she
was a great piano player, and her experience was already
integrated with being I'm a player and It was nothing
of the sort that it was a woman or a man.
(14:11):
It was just who you are and what you do. Truly,
it was that and she cherishes that to this day
because we call her the rock.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
She's like, she doesn't rely on anything other than no
prissy stuff. I am who I am, and am I
delivering what you need? And she has that respect. So
she came into the band as a player, literally, and
there was no thought she knew John, which had nothing
to do with it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Is your name really perfect? Is it Christine perfect? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:44):
And John would say she was perfect before she married me.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Well, Jack, So.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
That was really it. It was not about having a
lady in the bout we need a girl, No, it
was about really really great musician, bloody good piano player.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true,
which is that in that world there is nobody who
casts on me like Christine mcne I mean, I love
her singing beyond believe. I mean she does something to
me that I can't even describe. She's her bir singing
is so beautiful, you.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Know, So I can second that, right right, right.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So she's with you in the band, and then you
decide to have another woman join the band. So Buckingham,
you asked him to join the band.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Yeah, Bob Welch had left at rather short notice, and
I knew Bob extremely well, really lovely, hugely interesting chap.
So he left. But prior to that, I've been in
the studio sound City to try and find a studio
to record the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he leaves
(15:51):
and I meet Stevie and Lindsay after the fact, having
heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio part of the
Buckham Nick Nick's album that he'd made with them, the album,
and then Bob left. Then I made a phone call
and I said, you know that music you were playing?
Who What?
Speaker 6 (16:09):
How?
Speaker 4 (16:10):
And you're right, I was looking for a guitar player.
So I forever have Stevie to this day in a
comedic sense, but always with a knife in my back
that it wasn't really me that you wanted, it was Lindsay,
which was true, and in very short form, Lindsay made
it very clear that if he was to join, which
(16:32):
was not a slam dunk at the beginning, because he
and Stevie were thinking about going forward in their own world,
and she actually persuaded Lindsay to join the band pretty much.
She got fed up with waiting tables and stuff, so
she came somewhat originally by default, and yet not because
(16:53):
the real story is it was very evident early on.
Although Stevie said, you know, loves to dig at me,
it was that, first of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal
to her and I'm not going to do this without her.
Boom over. Then it didn't take a rocket scientist to
realize these songs, these beautiful songs were co written by
(17:16):
both Lindsay and Stevie. And then you listen to the
vocal blend, which is none other than going like when
you hear the Everly Brothers, you go like, oh my god,
that this joined at the hip and they came in
short form into the band as a duo, which was
a merciful decision when I look back, that Lindsay did
(17:38):
not desert her and said I'm here, but I'm here
with my partner, and that's how that happened.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
I've asked other very successful artists, such as yourself in
the music world, what does a producer do for you
when you're in a studio, when you're making a record,
who's the decider, who decides what take what track, this
vocal track, this drum track, whatever. But when you had
a collaboration with the producer that helped you, what did
they do for you?
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Well, I think the simple form would be that we
as a band no matter what, which is not always
the case, and it's not always the magic formula. A
lot of people just totally excel by being guided and
permanently told what to do and have a mirror that's
a reflection from another aspect, another interpretation of really who
(18:27):
they truly are, And that's fine. That was so not
how we grew up into and blustered into what we
were doing. So I would say that anyone that's worked,
including Keith Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably
the most influential that he was a blues fanatic and
(18:49):
he ran that little label we were on called Blue
Horizon and after that, so he would be picking songs
here and there with Peter and the band. After that,
it's really about are you a band member meaning them?
How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not
insist but integrate right into the fabric of being in
(19:13):
a band. And that's what I would always look out for,
and I think that's been our success has been absolute
expression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's really
listening to and having an empathy with what am I
dealing with here, especially later on when we became very
(19:36):
much five separate, expressive people that whoever it was, you
have to look back on and give them huge amounts
of credit. Has been some form of a social director
more than an artistic director. And I lost all my
hair because I was both.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
But would you say, when you say five distinct beings,
there was a period when they weren't there were a
unit and they were a unit during what period? And
what was that like and what changed that? Musically?
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Well, Fleetwood Mac was already a stage that existed, and
Fleetwood Mac was always about change so that you were
accepted for who you were. Anyone should express themselves. You know,
when I look back on it, that's in a naive
way what I must have understood, especially being a drama
(20:31):
when you go, oh, what the hell am I going
to do if I don't have a front line and
people that are delivering the play. You know, not to
diminish who I am and what I am, but that
was my function probably more than anything. So they came
as different characters walking on that stage, and if you
(20:52):
see and hear the music, you go none of it
makes any sense. None of them were clones of anyone.
They were all completely their own entity. So what they
had to learn.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Was to be in a band.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Everyone was extremely unhappy emotionally on the making of rumors
and Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's tough. You know,
no one ever intended to leave or anything. But one
time I remember sitting in the studio at the record
plant with Lindsay and he just turned around and said,
I don't know where I can do this, you know,
it's just, you know, we're in transition here. And his
(21:31):
interpretation was can I be in a band? Can I
be in a band? Especially with the pressure of is
this what it's like being in a band? You're emotionally exposed?
And everyone was. We were all in you know, I'm
drifting into the area where we promised we wouldn't go.
But so I just sat with him and he was
playing a setar I remember it distinctly, and I said,
(21:54):
then you must go. If it's self preservation don't destroy that.
Don't destroy us because of the play in essence, Peter Green. Yeah,
And I said, I don't have any ultimate apart from
if it's that bad, then you have to go. And
then I segued and I said, this is what it is.
Everything is a compromise. When you're walking on a stage
(22:17):
and sharing that that stage and this is that stage,
and I'm not forcing you. I'd extremely sad if halfway
through an album you just can't finish it out. And
he didn't say much. He just said I understand, and
he stayed.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
A guy once said to me, and he was much
younger than me, and this is maybe like ten years ago.
I was in my early fifties. It was in the
lines of advice to him for his career, and I said, well,
do you really want like the cold, hard, unvarnished You
want it with the bark On or the bark off? Yeah,
And I said, if you want it with the bark On,
then don't get married till you're forty, don't have any
(22:55):
kids to your forty, give yourself you're not just your
twenties but your thirties. Give this everything thing you have.
If you want to be an actor, with a real
prime If you want to be Leo DiCaprio, you want
to be a guy who's like at the top of
the pile and making movies with the best directors, the
best scripts. Everything's the best, the budgets, the release dates, everything.
If you want to surf that wave all the way
to the shore, then you have to make this the
(23:17):
most important thing in your life. Do you find that
that was true for you as well?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
I think in retrospect we didn't know because you're in it.
But as a comment, I think it's entirely correct and
proven out in no uncertain terms of time and time
and time and time and time and time.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Again.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Are the miracles that slip through and survive like a
built in version of what you've just said. In terms
of advice, yeah, few and far between. It really puts
a wall that you don't even realize that you're putting up,
where you're so into what you're doing that people get
left out and feel pushed away. So ideally, I think
(23:57):
your advice is entirely correct, but that advice is always
almost in retrospect for anyone.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's but I'm wondering also with three men, I mean
asleep with mac is most renowned for its three men
and two women, and neither one of those women has children?
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Were they people that were going through life and they
were like, well, we're going to get to that, and
the next year they turned around they were like wow,
twenty five years wait by like nothing.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know, I would say if either Chris or Stevie,
I feel comfortable in this conversation saying there was no
doubt that they made that decision to dedicate their lives
to their careers with flashes of what if, But I
think both of these ladies would have no problems saying
(24:45):
that that was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah, yeah, interesting,
very interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Now when people ask me about my drug use, I
say that I snorted a line of cocaine from here
to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine on
the rings of sat and then we took it home
with another line.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Oh, I've got your beat. I'm sure I think your
description is that actually more far reaching than mine? A
planetary version, But my version of that would be and
I've never lived it down, but you know, I have
no problem at all apart from don go there. And
(25:26):
then you have the war stories which this is sort
of tending to be. And I'll preface it by saying
war stories are fine, but there's a time and place
and what can you learn from them would be my
little lesson for anyone listening. So having said that, my
transgression was, which was some awful interview I did, and
I said, well, I one time, you know, I was
(25:49):
in the studio and I'm talking about my Well, how
much coke do you think I've ever done? This was
like in our private world, and we measured out a
good semi fat line of cocaine and then duplicated it,
and then X amount of years, so in the lasting
something amount of years we actually worked it out instead
(26:09):
of cutting tape and editing the song together. We got
into a transgression of actually working out probably about how
long would that line be? And it was seven miles long, apparently,
And I never lived that down and years all, especially
in England, whether they love all that terrible stuff. And
(26:31):
I have to sit there not talking about if you'd
be like someone talking about something in your life versus
the play I'm in or the script I've just written
or the book I've just you know, and you go
you go like, well, live with it because you opened
your mouth in the first place all those years ago,
and mine would be one of probably quite a few
(26:54):
transgressions in terms of that. But comedically, so I still
get asked, you know, was it really seven miles long?
And I looked down to my trouser and go, well,
I wished.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
You know, I'm thirty five years sober. I got sober
a long time ago in la For you, did you
feel that when that stopped? Because for me, when it stopped,
there were good things, but there were also bad things
because you're forced to confront everything. You know, if you
are if you go out in the world and you
don't drink and you don't take drugs and minim commenting
on you, but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored,
(27:32):
and you need to go out and face the world
that you need to resolve all your problems. You can't
sit in the problem anymore. You've got to dissolve things
and confront things and clean up the masks and so forth.
And I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically
once you stopped abusing yourself.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Well, I still drink, but the marching powder was a
massive part of my life for probably way over twenty years.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
God, it's a long time.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So that's a long time to have that.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Oh yeah, I was known as the king of tout
and everyone would always know that I wouldn't hold it,
you know. And then I did hit a brick wall
and it was like slow motion. And my mother Biddy
would always say, because they're hugely supportive, almost blindly supported, Oh,
it's no problem at all. Whenever he wants to stop,
(28:27):
he can stop it, you know, all those catchphrases. And
I always sort of thought that I could. And then
I hit a brick wall literally, and someone that I
shared my life with said, I'm I'm done. I can't
be around this anymore. And I said, please don't go
(28:48):
leave me alone for two days, and that's what I
did and never touched the stuff since overnight. It's divine intervention,
but it's also misplaced in terms of that. That's when
I probably should have gone into a program and found
out what you touched on, what were those reasons? And
(29:10):
I've done that since a couple of times with drink
and had a sort of a wake up call and
I just thought it was fun. I was around people
telling me literally countless horror stories of what had happened
to them, especially when there were children and young and
I had no support and all sorts of terrible things.
(29:32):
And I just said, I feel so terrible because I
just thought it was fun until it wasn't. And I
still actually haven't found the key of what was that.
My parents didn't drink unduly, had an incredible supportive childhood.
But that brick wall.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Was it insecurity about being in public? Maybe? Oh, I
think out there and being famous. I mean Fleetwood Mac.
I mean this music was coming out of every clamshell
on the beach for a while. Yeah, every horse in
the park was singing you can go your own way.
You know. It was like this music was everywhere, everywhere.
(30:11):
There were so many songs that were just washing over you.
It was like in the air all the time. Was
that unsettling for you? Fame and all that attention. Did
you need to medicate yourself to get through that period?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
I would say immediately. Notice how quickly I went. No,
But I do get nervous about performing. If someone said
make a speech and read the speech to three thousand people,
I would be really put upon, go out on stage
and just talk to someone I love, not even a question.
(30:47):
I know people around me that all of the trimmings
of what you just mentioned would be. Was that something
that freaked you out? I have to say no, because
of the way I was brought up. It was just
fantastic and fun. But actually performing and delivering certain aspects,
(31:07):
I would have to say, did bring out a fundamental
some form of academic calling out that you don't know
quite what you're doing, and therefore you're shitting yourself. And
therefore I know for a fact. For years, and I
(31:29):
played sober for fifteen years, the real truth is I
didn't enjoy it. So when I play now, I have
one bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved,
and without it, I can't even breathe. And I've tried hypnosis,
(31:49):
I've tried everything known to mankind to get over it
and breathing, and I had a guy like meditating with
me on the road when I really really really really
really didn't drink. All I can say is that instead
of enjoying myself, I had my road manager with a
brown paper bag so I could breathe into it to
(32:09):
stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't enjoy it, and
it's because of the element, which has nothing to do
with fame and fortune. It's actually who are you? What
are you in the moment and being called out like
being in the class that I didn't I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Mcfleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there,
leave us a review. I really appreciate it. Few bands
have managed to survive longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we
return the surprising resurgence of interest in the band's nineteen
(32:50):
seventy seven album Rumors.
Speaker 6 (33:10):
Yes, the same kind of story.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
It seems to come down long ago. That's the song
hypnotized recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac.
Mick Fleetwood has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for
more than fifty years. And as there's usually one person
in every long lasting band that brings them back together,
(33:32):
I asked who was that person for Fleetwood Mac.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
It would be me and and that was and is
and has been my function. I imaged it a while ago,
not not any big deal, but I'm going like, you know,
because I don't write, I don't sing, although I'm enjoying
doing some of that now, which is interesting, really actually
interesting to be able to make a private fool of
(33:58):
yourself with no pressure. I said, I think my story
would be and I'm really happy about it and quietly
proud of it. That my function was that I drifted
into it, I learnt it. And me and John always
wanted to have a band to be in. Why wouldn't you?
(34:21):
And I said, I think that story is my song.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You're a musical catalory. You can see so many beautiful songs.
It's beautiful music, and the poetry is beautiful, and the
lyrics it still moves you to this day.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Yeah. I take that as a lovely compliment on behalf
of all of us in this crazy band, and thank you.
And I think there is sometimes almost the lighthearted part
of Fleetwood Mac or whatever word one wants to use,
the sort of the poppy part of it was always
(34:57):
balanced out by a form of rev a form of
very often some romance of sadness and entertaining That type
of dialogue would be for me, is is songbird, and
there are, of course are others, But I remember when
Chris wrote that, and I actually spoke very recently to
(35:19):
her about it. We just drifted into a conversation and
she totally remembered, and I went, Chris, this is like
Edith Piaf on a stage alone and she was in
the studio at the record plant, and I said, this
needs to be lonely. We should record it in an
empty theater, not in a shag carpet studio. Let's go
(35:44):
and do that. And we did, and we went a
college over in Berkeley and recorded that song. As the
imaging of it was so devastating to me. I said,
you are alone. You are alone playing this lovely, lovely song,
and it should be all of that. And that's exactly
(36:04):
what we did. It was the most pregnant suite moment
around the song that I can tell in our short conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Some including Stevie Nix, And we've read about Dylan's going
to sell his catalog and David Crosby's getting ready to
sell his catalog. And I guess in this COVID era
and beyond, in the age of streaming music, people are
seeing sources of revenue dry up. Certainly some of these
people are older. You know, they're not selling their catalog
and they're in their thirties or whatever, But what do
(36:35):
you think of them?
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I think it's great. I'm sure it's not for everyone
or whatever, but I think the circumstances has triggered so
many things. This would be one of them. I think
those decisions may or may not have been made anyhow,
who's to say why not? And a body of work
that is to be quite frankly translated into all sorts
(36:59):
of lovely things for these people, whatever that might be.
Because the people you're talking about, they certainly don't need
any money for the most part. But no, let's say
we doubt it. So it becomes something that will grow
into all sorts of other things. One would imagine. What
(37:19):
they might be is their business, you know. And one
of the things I think is family. I think a
lot of people are handing down to family ahead of
time versus you know, people picking through when your God forbid,
whenever that moment comes. And to see family enjoying stuff
that can be allocated before you do pop off.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So, if I'm not mistaken, Rumors is a best selling
album again now as the direct result of some guy
on a skateboard swinging down cranberry juice. What did you think?
What did you think of when you first came across
the TikTok? Phenomenally right occurred.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
Well, I know him as Nathan. His online name is Dogface,
and it is quite unbelieveable. And all hell was breaking
loose because he made a decision one day to do
his thing. It happened in the most charming way. And
then someone said, well would you would you? I said, well,
(38:21):
I can't get on a skateboard, so I hung myself
off the back of a golf cart and did the thing.
And the next thing I know, we're all on you know,
halftime sports programs, and god knows what else. His whole
life has changed. And I actually loved it because it
was so not thought of. One of the lovely things
(38:43):
I was able to say on a zoom call. He
was doing an interview in England with some very upstanding
BBC chap and he had no idea I was going
to come on the zoom call. So that's when I
first met him, you know, face to face, And then
his family came on. They sang songs to me and stuff,
and I said, let me tell you Nathan Fleetwood Mac
(39:04):
os it's been a fantastic moment in time that when
a wall and typical Fleetwood mac just when you think
you know we've survived, we've been really lucky, you know,
in so many some of the things we've touched on
in our talk where against hopeless odds we've prevailed. And
(39:25):
I always joke about, especially with Lindsay Buckingham years ago.
I used to sit with him and go like, we
are the most abused rock and roll franchise in the world,
meaning we've never capitalized on anything. Really, we're all idiots.
But it's sort of good and we're still here.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
It's unbelievable. I mean again, I say this because it's easy,
and that is you're still here and people are picking
songs of yours to soundtrack their kind of playfulness, TikTok
and so forth, because the music is great. I mean
you and you're going back to hypnotized and Welsh. I
love Hypnotized, I love Mystery to Me, I love all
(40:09):
I love those early records. I play them to death.
I love everything guys, and then solo acts Christia, you know,
with Stevie's solo albums, blah blah, blah. I love it all,
but I mean you you live in people's hearts because
the music is that good. You guys made some of
the greatest music in the history of the music posiness.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
No, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I remember something
my father said, and it seems to really apply to
a lot of the storytelling about this funny life and
certainly Fleetwood Mac and the fact that there have been
all sorts of ups and downs and around the Marlbury
Bush and pain and a lot of happiness as well.
(40:51):
My dad would always say one thing, Nick, I can
tell you it's all been worth a damn And hearing
is say that about the music makes me feel that
it's all been worth a diamond.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
Lots of love to you, and my love to you.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Mix Sleepwood, I've been.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Such more board of gold like a car the end
of the rain.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing from iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I'm not leave then You're bad, No, not you, I'm
(42:02):
I've got a bad sting of warm
Popular Podcasts
1. The Podium
The Podium: An NBC Olympic and Paralympic podcast. Join us for insider coverage during the intense competition at the 2024 Paris Olympic and Paralympic Games. In the run-up to the Opening Ceremony, we’ll bring you deep into the stories and events that have you know and those you'll be hard-pressed to forget.
2. In The Village
In The Village will take you into the most exclusive areas of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games to explore the daily life of athletes, complete with all the funny, mundane and unexpected things you learn off the field of play. Join Elizabeth Beisel as she sits down with Olympians each day in Paris.
3. iHeartOlympics: The Latest
Listen to the latest news from the 2024 Olympics.