May 14, 2024 • 38 mins
Coming from a challenging, working class upbringing in the United Kingdom, Steve Jones discovered his outlet in music - as founding guitarist of the groundbreaking punk rock band the Sex Pistols. Despite the release of only one album,”Never Mind the Bollocks, Here’s the Sex Pistols,” the band changed the course of music and history - vocalizing issues of class in songs like “Anarchy in the U.K.” – and influencing fashion, art and society. Since then, Jones has continued to play music (both solo and with bands The Professionals and Neurotic Outsiders) and was the host of the popular, long-running radio show, “Jonesy’s Jukebox.” In 2022, his insightful memoir, “Lonely Boy,” was adapted into the FX television series, the Danny Boyle-directed “Pistol.” Steve Jones talks to host Alec Baldwin about the roots of punk rock, coming up alongside Vivienne Westwood and Chrissie Hynde, and the road to getting clean – and beginning life anew.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio GA, I Stop.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Stop, Don't Wanna want that.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Guest pass by Canza. That is, of course, the sex Pistols,
with Anarchy in the UK off their nineteen seventy seven
album never Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. The
song and the album feature My Guest Today guitarist and
(00:46):
musician Steve Jones. While many have laid claim to inventing
punk rock, Jones and the band are the actual creators
of the genre. Although the name was given to them
by the Friend designer Vivian Westwood. Jones is nothing if
not surprising. He overcame a challenging lower class upbringing in
(01:10):
Britain to become a founding member of one of the
most influential bands in music. Although The sex Pistol's nineteen
seventy seven debut would be their only release, the band
left an indelible mark on music and culture. After The
Pistol's breakup, Jones went on to perform in the bands
The Professionals and Neurotic Outsiders. He also released his own
(01:34):
solo work and Steve Jones' career continued to evolve. He
hosted a daily radio show, Jonesy's Jukebox for almost two decades,
and his memoir Lonely Boy was developed into the popular
FX series Pistol, directed by filmmaker Danny Boyle and the
(01:55):
most surprising part. Jones is also one of my favorite
performers on social media. He's known for playing heartfelt and
beautiful songs in his shower showcasing the softer side of
the legendary punk rock star. I wanted to get his
take on building a musical genre and what was really
(02:16):
behind the punk rock movement.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Well, we didn't form a band and say let's be
punk rock. It was a word that came after us forming. Actually,
it was a word that this American lady who lived
in London called Caroline Coon. I think she was the
first one to write it in the Melody Maker punk rock.
(02:41):
It just was a word that came up. But as
far as what does it mean, I mean, it's the
same thing as or Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis. You know,
to me, it's just rock and roll. There was a
lot of fashion slung in there with Vivian west With
and Malcolm McLaren and it was the right time and
we were just the next generation of young people who
(03:06):
didn't like old people. You know, he just wanted something different.
It's what, it's what, that's what happens. It's like every
generation should be doing that, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's their own means of expressing how much they hate
their parents.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, that and everything else, even if it's just nonsense,
you know, rebelling. What's the famous line in the movie
in what you're rebelling against? Where you're going? You got
you know, it's the same. It's the same stuff. Nothing's new.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
There's a documentary. I watched Sex Pistols documentary, Filth and
the Fury. Yes, the Filth and the Fury. There you
go things the Filth and the Fury comes and I
love that film. I loved it because they really take
their time and lay the context in there of how
horrible it was in England and in London at that time.
(03:57):
The poverty and the job was this, and the inflation
and everything was that a part of it too? Was
it just you?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
You?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
You did? You hate it there and just dream of
getting the hell out of there.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I didn't. I didn't really pay attention to what was
going on. Around me. To be honest with you, I
just it was just growing up. I didn't feel like
I was poor. I had a crappy upbringing by my stepfather.
It was abusive. My mother wasn't really looking back there.
I think she was a little bit crazy, like really crazy,
(04:29):
and we were dirt poor, you know. But all I
wanted to do when I was like really young, like
ten to eleven, was just to go up the West
End and around Piccadilly and just walk around looking for excitement.
That was it. I didn't. I mean I did notice
some trash bags here and there, but I really didn't
(04:50):
care about any any of that stuff. You know, John Lyon,
he was a lot sharper, you know what I mean.
I was pretty simple. I just wanted to do what
most teenagers want to do is get laid, have a laugh,
and get drunk.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
That was pretty much. Yeah, I'm not one of them.
The clash was more political than the sex pistols. I
think I think we didn't take ourselves serious. Like the
clash the class seemed very serious. But I'm not taking
away what we concocted, which was just a fluke. You know,
(05:28):
It's four guys. You just got together. It just happened
to be that the four guys. This was before Sid
when we had Glenn Matlock as the bass player, and
it was just magic for two years and then it
kind of started fizzling away.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So home was tough. Your stepfather was abusive. You write
all of this in your book Lonely Boy. Your dad disappeared.
You're reconnected with your real dad when you were fifty correct.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Oh, I never knew, but my friend kind of pushed
me to to look him up and I did. And
so it was in two thousand and eight and we
were touring sex pistols. We did like thirty shows, did
a bunch of festivals in Europe, and I'd spoken to
him one time. He kind of put two and two
(06:16):
together what was happening, and he agreed to meet me,
and I went up to Nottingham. He lived in Nottingham.
He got married after he left my mum. He has
three kids my age and I met him and that
was bizarre. How so Well, his voice is exactly the same,
and he really does look like me. And he was
(06:37):
a truck driver most of his life and he was
an amateur boxer. And I met him and we went
in this caf around a corner from the station in Nottingham,
and he was just he wouldn't shut up. He was
so guilt ridden, he just wouldn't be quiet. I'm like,
I don't care, shut up. I just want to receive
if you had hair or not. You know, I liked him,
(07:00):
actually liked him. They were young when they had me.
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, you think you would you be capable of doing
the same thing, you know, easy.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, So I've got no qualms with him. He's dead now.
My mom died around they were like eighty two. They
both kind of died the same time. Even though they
never spoke or anything since he left.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Really they never communicated. When you saw him, did you
either forgive him or have the impulse to forgive him?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah? I made it clear I didn't like a form more.
You know, I just said, look, it's all good, you know,
you don't have to keep going on about this, that
and the other. I really wanted to see you, and
I'm glad it turned out the way it did. My
biggest fear was when I called him and he was
going to say, I don't want nothing to do with you,
(07:56):
and that was it. So I think it turned out
pretty good a couple of times after that, and he
sent me a let and then that was it. It
just fizzled out. I had no desire to want to,
you know, hang out with him and all that was
that was long gone.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Now when you, I mean, we're going to meander here.
But when you after your heyday with the band and
that white hot period, had you visited Los Angeles? So
when did you first go to Los Angeles? And are
you like a lot of brits Ie now where they
walk out there and they're like, this is it, man,
I'm moving here the sunshine and blah blah.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Blah pretty much? I mean not at first. The first
time I came to LA is when the Pistols played.
We actually didn't play in LA but we did like
twelve shows or whatever. It was in January nineteen seventy eight.
January seventy eight, and we ended in San Francisco and
(08:52):
we broke up, and me and Cookie the drama and
the manager, Malcolm, we came to LA for a few days.
I didn't really get it at the time. I remember
we went in the Palm restaurant that was on Little
Santa Monica at the time and Malcolm's like, yeah, go on,
do something, throw some lobsters around, and we did it
(09:15):
like idiots. And then the next day we went to Brazil.
So I didn't really get the whole thing, but I
did get the whole thing in Hollywood, I mean, you know,
Los Angeles, whatever, Beverly Hills. A couple of years later,
when I went back there and produced this band called
The Avengers in San Francisco. They were one of the
(09:37):
bands that opened up for us on our last show
at the winter Land, and I produced this little weep.
I didn't know what I was doing. I was stoning
out of my mind on weed. Then I came to
LA and I hung out for a couple of weeks,
and that's when I fell in love with Los Angeles.
There was no traffic, big roads, big privacy. It was
(10:02):
just you know, night and day. Coming from Shepherd's Bush
in London, it was like Dickens, you know, like the
Dickens to Fantasy Island, you.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Know, Saversham's House.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I put it in my book. There was one moment
there was this lady who I met. She had a
big convertible. She had the convertible down a big, massive
Cadillac whatever it was. And she lived on Beverly Glen
and she goes, you want to go to see a movie?
And we went to see a drive in movie and
(10:35):
I'm smoking a joint. The tops down were just cruising
along and I'm like, I love this place. It just
all clicked, coming from Dickens to that, you know, Hollywood.
You know, it was the best.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Oh Man, Yeah, described to me that concert at winter Land,
because that's when that's when all the wheels fall off.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Correct, they were falling off before that, but that was
that was the end. That was like, it didn't look
like it was going any further.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Because the show sucked. What was the show?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Like? No, the show, well, I had the flu. It
was just it was getting sloppy. Were not communicating with
each other. Everyone's egos were going in different directions. And
we were twenty years old, you know, twenty one, and
it was just all this bombasket stuff that happened to
(11:33):
us really quick, and I couldn't handle it. I don't
know about the rest of the guys. I was relieved
when we broke up. They were I decided I've had
enough of this. I just I don't see a future
in it, you know, and that was it. And I
think it was manipulated a bit by Malcolm McClaren, the
manager attend. Yeah, that's right up his alley. That just
(11:57):
doing stuff like that, just you know, he wanted to
be a star, you.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Know, he wanted the band to end.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I think so that's just his nature. I think the
fad ended. He don't like normalcy, you know, he likes
the chaos.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And maybe he thought you guys were going to go
much further. If everybody's so self destructive back then and
you're the manager, you think McLaren thought you guys were,
you know, reaching the end.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Anyway, I think he's a narcissist or he was a narcissist.
And I didn't think he fought that deep about other people, right.
I think he was more about just keeping that. He
was great at you know, publicity. He was excellent as that.
You know, some of the things that he came up
with were great. I love Malcolm. Even though you know
(12:47):
we got turned over financially, I still love McLaren. He
was a big part of my growing up.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Now when you mentioned that turned over financially, was McLaren
Was he the partner Westward? Were they together as a
couple or no, oh yeah, think were I don't know that.
I mean, I know her name, but I don't know,
but they were. They were a.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Couple, Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And you first met them where.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I met them in the shop they had down King's Road.
And it went through various names, but it was all
First it was too fast to live, too young to die.
Then it changed selling like teddy boy clothes. I don't
know if that term teddy boys is known in America.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yes, of people like me who know British music.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, yeah, fifties music, but it wasn't the fifties, but
they would sell stuff like that, and then it was
then it was lead it rock, and then it was seditionaries.
That's when the punk thing, and it was all the
bondage and all the MPs would go in there and
try on rob and nickers and play with themselves.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
They couldn't get elected if you didn't do that, and
you come out.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It was a great time and now it's the world's end.
It's still viving westward now.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Now when you say you got tossed financially at various points,
let's say when you're recording and you're making this epic
album and beyond who owns the rights? Who owns that music?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Well, we do now you do you know? And whoever
the publisher is for the songwriting. But it has all
come back to us only because John Wright and wanted
to sue him a few years later Malcolm. Yeah, and
he did, and otherwise it would have all went to Malcolm.
(14:37):
We had the worst deal. We had one lawyer, it
was Malcolm's lawyer, and we just signed pieces of paper.
We didn't even exactly, We didn't know what was going on.
Not that it ain't the first time that happens, and
it will keep happening. It will keep happening because when
you're young, you don't know. You just want to get
out there and you know, get on the stage.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So when the original series is launched, the idea comes
to you or anybody for that matter, to do Pistol. Yeah,
a sixth part dramatic series about you guys. You've got
to give them the rights to the music, correct. Yeah,
And we had a problem with John. He didn't want
to allow it. He didn't want the series to happen.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Did he say why, Well, I can only think that
it wasn't his book. They were doing a thing on
it was mine right, that could have played a part.
I'm not sure, but I was thrilled that Danny Boyle
wanted to do that.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Great director.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, and he did a good job. I loved it. Yeah,
it was really good.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
What did you like about it?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think, like you said about the filth and the fury,
how it captured a time. I think he really captured
the time with all the sets and whatnot. I just
thought it was great. I just wish they had had
more on me in it.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Well, what's it like for you to see? Because when
you do a narrative piece that six episodes or five,
or a movie that's a couple of hours, there's an
idea about Steve Jones and Pistol that they want to
get across the person themselves is a suggestion. The piece
isn't about your life, you know, verbatim, and in real
(16:21):
time it's not. It can't be. What do you think
of the guy that played you? What did you When
you're watching that guy, you're saying, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I think he did a good job. He's Australian, right,
so he had to kind of change his accent. He
ain't as good looking as me before. That's because of
that saying, yeah, no one, they couldn't find anyone. I
couldn't absorb it. To be honest, if you when i'd
see when I see, you know, an episode put together
in a rough stage, I'm looking at it. I'm like,
(16:50):
I'm not in that. I'm not in it. It's like
that ain't me, even though he's playing me. I couldn't.
I couldn't absorb it. It was the weirdest feeling. I
fall down in shit and I always come up smelling
the roses. You know, God's good for me.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Musician Steve Jones. If you enjoy conversations with some of
music's greatest guitarists, check out my episode with Peter Frampton.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Sound is very inspirational to me. I remember the reason
that I wanted to learn guitar was because I heard
the sounds of all these people on TV and on
the radio electric guitar very young. I have a very
acute sense of sound, and I've always had that if
I don't have a good sound, I can't play very well.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Hear more of my conversation with Peter Frampton at Here's
the Thing dot Org. After the break, Steve Jones shares
how the sex Pistols lineup came to be. I'm Alec
(18:06):
Baldwin and you're listening to here is the Thing. Steve
Jones and the sex Pistols cracked open issues of class
and culture in Great Britain in the nineteen seventies. Songs
like God Save the Queen and Anarchy in the UK
helped them become both a symbol of political turmoil and
an international sensation. I wanted to know if growing up,
(18:30):
Steve Jones ever thought he would become a world famous musician.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
No, you never. I never thought that, you know. When
I'd watched Top of the Pops, I thought these bands
and that they fell from mars. I didn't know it
was possible to do anything like that, you know. And
and next thing, you know, here I am. You know,
I steal all this musical equipment. I was good at,
(18:56):
you know, being a tea leaf. I always add these
to want to do it because I love music, you know,
at an early age, and it was just one of
them things. It seemed totally natural to become popular and
famous and a big band. I didn't realize that most
(19:17):
musicians that doesn't happen, you.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Know, now you started off as a singer. You're singing
and you passed that baton quick Why?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I couldn't handle it. I got on the stage once
and I just freaked out. It was way too much
for me. I was not ready for that. This is
when Malcolm came up with the name Q E. Jones
and the Sex Pistols. And it was me. I was
singing this other guy, Wally Nightingale and Glenn Matlock, the
(19:48):
original bass player, and we was rehearsing, rehearse in, rehearsing,
and he like, got us this gig and we're doing
a lot of covers. I think we had one original.
We played this Salter's Cafe a down King's Road. I
was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. And I couldn't even
(20:08):
tell you what happened. It wasn't for me. My self
esteem weren't good.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Did it just so happen that you've had a confident
vocalist near you or did you tell him he had
to become a vocalist the way you became a guitarist.
Did he have to work at it? Well?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
After that failure show, we auditioned for a singer. And
this when John used to come into Malcolm's shop and
then we auditioned him in the shop. Now this when
when I heard this guy, I'm like, who is this clown?
He can't sing? We don't we don't want it, and
we want someone like Rod Stewart, you know. But that
was it, you know, it was it. It was this magic
(20:47):
and it took you know a little while, and then
we were like, wow, this is this is rotten? Yeah, yeah,
and it was complete. Then it was complete. You know.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Obviously you write about and much has written about you
that you didn't play the guitar early on as a
child and so forth, and then you flash ahead and
you're on Rolling Stones list of the one hundred greatest
guitarists in history. How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Well, I used to do a lot of speed.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Really.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
That gave me the focus. You know. I had that
thing what kids have now ADT.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Or whatever it is ADHD.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, I definitely had that. I had no attention span.
I didn't I went to school. I just sat in
the back and just didn't even learn anything. I couldn't
even read and write, which I sought it out later
in years after getting clean, and so I actually had
a tutor to help me read and write. I couldn't
even sign a check.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
But you dug down and you learned how to play.
I read where you said you take a chord and
play that chord for like five hours until you got
that down. You did it step by step.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
The Black Beauty Way of learning guitar, the Black Beauty School.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, I love it now, speaking of Black Beauties. Two
weeks ago, this past Friday, on the twenty third of February,
I had my thirty ninth anniversary.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
At AA Oh Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Now. I don't talk about sobriety that much on the show,
but if I find it's worthwhile, I will. And for you,
when did you realize something had to change? And how
quickly thereafter did you change it?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Well, I'm thirty three years at Cleveland sober.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
That's where I met you. Out there, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I drifted out to California, not
the time when I fell in love with it. Later
I was in this the band broke up, we went
to England. I started this other band called the Professionals,
and we did a tour. I ended up in New York.
I didn't get on the plane. I stayed in New
York for about a year, I sold my passport and
(22:57):
then I got this other band together, or a band
was We played at the Pep Momint Lounge. It was
like a showcase with Michael Debar's and two of the
guys from Blondie and it was great. But they were
all based in la And then I drifted out to La.
I detoxed. I went to some methodone place in set
(23:21):
a high end methodone place in Century City, and I
got clean and I started living with Michael Debars, but
I wasn't ready to be sober, and so i'd hung
out with him when I lived with him for a while,
and then I did start to be aware of alcoholics anonymous,
(23:43):
but it shook me another six years of being homeless,
slept on someone's couch who was sober, and then I
would get thirty days, sixty days, you know. I started going.
I liked it, the attention, it was felt like a
safe place. But I had no clue of what was
(24:06):
going on. And it took me, you know, a few
more years when the coin dropped and I'm like, I'm done.
I mean, obviously, it's the best thing that's ever happened
to me. You know, Prior at his two lives is
before sobriety and now sobriety. I'm not a completely different person,
(24:27):
and I didn't know. I didn't know that this was
going to be in my journey at all. But I
was living up. I was making money at this point,
and I was living up in the canyon making money
how doing solo stuff. I started working with Iggy Pop
and Andy Taylor from Deuran Duran, playing guitar sessions, yeah,
and riting. I couldn't get arrested. Prior to that, I
(24:49):
had the worst reputation because I couldn't keep my hands
in my pockets. Everything disappeared and I was just, you know,
a junkie. No one wants to really hang out. So yeah,
it took a long time. But I remember the last
relapse that I had. I bet some guy in the
valley and I was buying balloons off him. It wasn't working,
(25:14):
and I went back. I took a victim a new bile.
We were shooting up and I'm like, you know what,
I need to go back and get my shit together.
And so I got a bunch of kludes and some
other painkillers and I was going to get sober and
(25:36):
sneak back in to the rooms and no one would know.
And I lasted about two hours and that's when the
coin literally dropped, and I'm like, I'm done. I just
can't do this anymore. And it wasn't financial or anything
like that. It was emotional and that was it. It
was just all of a sudden after going to AA
(25:58):
for about six or seven years, in and out, in
and out, that was when the coin dropped, and that's
when it all changed.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
The book is filled with these brilliant phrases like incomprehensible demoralization.
That phrase just was tattooed on my forehead. I was
incomprehensibly demoralized. When you got sober and you stayed sober
for quite some time, how did that change your life
in terms of friends. Did you maintain some of the
old friends and people who weren't sober, or did all
(26:26):
your friends become sober people.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I really didn't have a lot of friends. They didn't
want to be my friend because I wasn't a good friend.
There was a few. I was so desperate, you know,
I was so desperate when I got sober for real
that everyone I hung out with was in the rooms.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
But that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That was it. I didn't want to hang out with
other people. I had a friend of mine visit me
once from England who was a witness school with. His
name was Jimmy Mackin. He was a really, really bad drunk.
I mean, he was one of them guys. He loved
to fight when he was at a couple of drinks. Anyway,
he was dry as a bone. And he came to
(27:13):
visit me and I couldn't wait for him to leave.
His energy was so bad. I was so uncomfortable around him.
He was like a time bomb. Yeah, you know, dry
as a bone. And he finally left after a few days,
and he went back and committed suicide. He was in
(27:34):
Chiswick Park and put in a car and he put
the old exhaust pipe into the thing and killed himself.
And you know, my point is is that it's so
different when you surrender, you know, it's so different when
you get to that point. I have no idea why
I'm one of the lucky ones that I'm still sober.
(27:58):
I have no idea because I don't really do anything
different than anyone else. I was definitely a lot more desperate.
It was tough at first, you know, changing and basically
starting from scratch. For me, like I said, I was illiterate.
I didn't know how to behave. It was all about me.
(28:19):
What can I get? It was all about doing something
nice for someone because there's going to be something in it.
For me, I was so self absorbed and me, me, me,
me me, you know. And when that changed after many years,
it didn't just that when I walked in to the rooms,
and it was that process, that long process, and I'm
(28:43):
just so grateful. You know. I still go to about
four millions a week in person. Yeah, I just love it.
I love it, you know. I love being of service.
I don't like getting old. I will say that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Steve Jones. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend
and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the
iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. After
the break, Steve Jones shares the meaning behind the title
of his memoir Lonely Boy. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're
(29:29):
listening to Here's the Thing. Steve Jones and the members
of the Sex Pistols embodied the nineteen seventies punk scene
in the United Kingdom. It also had them rubbing elbows
with other up and coming artists, designers and musicians like
Chrissy Hind of the Pretenders.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Chrissy she used to work in the shop that Malcolm
McLaren might Ivia Westwood shop, and I met her here
and she was great, man, she was summing else, a
real badass, you know. And the band started. She used
to come to the shows. She wanted to be in
a band. I didn't take her seriously. She used to
(30:10):
stay with me sometimes we'd hang out. We had a
great time. And then she got a band together and
then sold more records than the sex Pistols, you know.
And a great songwriter, a great voice. I love Christy.
I see her all the time. She's in the series.
She's in the show. She can't when she saw it,
(30:30):
she's like, what I'm in this more than you guys.
What's going on? And I'm like, I know, I don't understand.
I mean, I think it was the you know, the
political correct thing to have more women stuff, you know.
And the girl who played Chrissy was great, and man,
I got not a bad word to say for Christy.
I always see her when I go over there. But
(30:53):
the bottom line was I was incapable of relationships. All
I wanted to do was get laid with different people.
Once I got to know someone a little bit, the
old Hanson just wouldn't stand up, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
We're done, We're done. The thing about Chrissy that I
always remember is she had so much respect from people. People.
You know, Chrissy's interesting, and she's beautiful, and she's a
very exotic, you know, in her whole package. But people
really really admire her. And she's a great fucking musician.
I think she's really at the top of the heap,
you know.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
She is. You know, it's weird about her. When she
started recording, she had the same producer who produced in
never Mind the Bollocks, Chris Thomas. She couldn't have anyone
in the studio when she was singing. She was so
insecure about her voice. She just couldn't do it. I mean,
she's all right now, but for a few years, a
(31:48):
few albums, she couldn't have anyone around when she was singing.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
So, speaking of your your sexual appetite, of course, there's
no surprise to any of us that you end up
on California. Yeah, in your acting career now, when you
were on Californication. What did you play?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I played a tour manager.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And what happened on the show with you and Ducoveny.
Do you have scenes with Dukeveney?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, I had a few. I went on it and
it was I was only meant to do one episode,
and they liked me and I ended up doing two seasons.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I just said, I don't mind an accent. Just don't
give me a lot of lines. I'm terrible remember. I'm
terrible at remembering.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Your book is called Lonely Boy, and that's a very
powerful thing to say, because when you have that feeling
about your childhood, Why did you choose that title? Why?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Because I'm always alone even now, even now, even now,
even with thirty three years of sobriety, there's still that
part of me that just is always got that empty
feeling of being alone. I don't think that I don't
think that's ever going to go, you know. And I'm
not preferred, no, I mean, I've never had a relationship really,
(33:06):
you know. I'm hard work, man, I'm hard work to
be around sometimes, you know, especially with in a relationship.
I've tried it. I actually tried it last year for
about a year and it just it just fizzled out.
I just can't do it right, I just cannot do it.
I mean I'm damaged. Goods mate. It's not that I
(33:29):
don't want to, but I really don't have the choice
to have it or not. I just don't have the choice. Yeah,
I just am not. You know, various things happened when
I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Have you been able to overcome back to some degree
or is it still as vivid in your mind from
time to time as it was back then what you
had to go through with your as a child, as
a boy.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
No, I've definitely overcome it. I'm just left with there's
some things I think you just can't change. It don't
matter how much work you do on it, on something.
You know. He e molested me once, the stepfather. I
was like ten. He made me jerk him off, you know,
when my mom was in hospital. But that was enough
(34:16):
just to throw me off because I'm a sensitive I'm
a real sensitive and that was it. Coupled with that
and my mother not really being on the ball, not
a nurturing person, not protecting you, not protecting me. He
came before me. I was I was second fiddle. We
used to have a tin had therapy once, right, And
(34:38):
I'm in the therapy office and I'm trying to explain
to the therapist, And I was explaining it to her,
not for what was going on, but to explain how
poor he was. We used to have a tin bath
and we would fill it up with a kettle, right,
and my mom would go first, then my stepdad, then
(35:00):
I would get in last. And the therapist says, it's
funny that they put you in last and not first.
Most normal parents, loving parents.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
With the children, who's cared for first?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, child, And it hit me like a sound of bricks,
and I started crying my eyes out. It was like
a moment and I never even saw it. You know,
prior to that.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, whatever you've been through and whatever trouble you've had
to face and pain you've had to face. When that
guy you in that shower with the guitar, you play
songs and the tears are rolling down my face because
of your musical ability, in spite of everything you've had
happened to you, in spite of all the shit you've
(35:47):
had to put up with, in spite of what you
put yourself through as well, you get in there and
you play those songs and the beauty of your musicianship
and who you are in your soul as a result
of everything you went through. I'm telling you, it makes
me cry every time. Do you have no idea what
(36:08):
that means to be? Because you're so fucking talented and
you reach people that way, you reach them. The guy
in the shower is one of the greatest musicians ever.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Well, I was actually I was actually going to do
one today, a new one, some of them. I really
appreciate that. Ben. Honestly, you've almost got me to here
that because I don't think I'm a good musician.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
You are a great You're a great musician.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Man.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
People love you. They love your musicianship, your guitar playing,
your crazy youth and now people can watch you. You
think it's like a little amuse boosh, you're floating out
there to people. Let me tell you something, I look
forward to those. You're blessed. You're blessed from God. Don't
forget that. Okay, all right, mate? Thanks a lot, my
(36:54):
love to you, and thank you for doing this.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Thank you. I had fun.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
My thanks to Steve Jones. If like me, you can't
get enough of Steve Jones singing in the shower. Visit
his Instagram page at Jonesy's Jukebox. That's at j O
n E s y S Jukebox. I'll Leave You with
No Feelings off of the nineteen seventy seven album never
(37:23):
Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. I'm Alec Baldwin.
Here's the thing is. Brought to you by iHeart Radio Jones. Hi,
(38:01):
I'm putty w I go free.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I Know, I Know, I
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio GA, I Stop.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Stop, Don't Wanna want that.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Guest pass by Canza. That is, of course, the sex Pistols,
with Anarchy in the UK off their nineteen seventy seven
album never Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. The
song and the album feature My Guest Today guitarist and
(00:46):
musician Steve Jones. While many have laid claim to inventing
punk rock, Jones and the band are the actual creators
of the genre. Although the name was given to them
by the Friend designer Vivian Westwood. Jones is nothing if
not surprising. He overcame a challenging lower class upbringing in
(01:10):
Britain to become a founding member of one of the
most influential bands in music. Although The sex Pistol's nineteen
seventy seven debut would be their only release, the band
left an indelible mark on music and culture. After The
Pistol's breakup, Jones went on to perform in the bands
The Professionals and Neurotic Outsiders. He also released his own
(01:34):
solo work and Steve Jones' career continued to evolve. He
hosted a daily radio show, Jonesy's Jukebox for almost two decades,
and his memoir Lonely Boy was developed into the popular
FX series Pistol, directed by filmmaker Danny Boyle and the
(01:55):
most surprising part. Jones is also one of my favorite
performers on social media. He's known for playing heartfelt and
beautiful songs in his shower showcasing the softer side of
the legendary punk rock star. I wanted to get his
take on building a musical genre and what was really
(02:16):
behind the punk rock movement.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Well, we didn't form a band and say let's be
punk rock. It was a word that came after us forming. Actually,
it was a word that this American lady who lived
in London called Caroline Coon. I think she was the
first one to write it in the Melody Maker punk rock.
(02:41):
It just was a word that came up. But as
far as what does it mean, I mean, it's the
same thing as or Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis. You know,
to me, it's just rock and roll. There was a
lot of fashion slung in there with Vivian west With
and Malcolm McLaren and it was the right time and
we were just the next generation of young people who
(03:06):
didn't like old people. You know, he just wanted something different.
It's what, it's what, that's what happens. It's like every
generation should be doing that, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's their own means of expressing how much they hate
their parents.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, that and everything else, even if it's just nonsense,
you know, rebelling. What's the famous line in the movie
in what you're rebelling against? Where you're going? You got
you know, it's the same. It's the same stuff. Nothing's new.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
There's a documentary. I watched Sex Pistols documentary, Filth and
the Fury. Yes, the Filth and the Fury. There you
go things the Filth and the Fury comes and I
love that film. I loved it because they really take
their time and lay the context in there of how
horrible it was in England and in London at that time.
(03:57):
The poverty and the job was this, and the inflation
and everything was that a part of it too? Was
it just you?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
You?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
You did? You hate it there and just dream of
getting the hell out of there.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
I didn't. I didn't really pay attention to what was
going on. Around me. To be honest with you, I
just it was just growing up. I didn't feel like
I was poor. I had a crappy upbringing by my stepfather.
It was abusive. My mother wasn't really looking back there.
I think she was a little bit crazy, like really crazy,
(04:29):
and we were dirt poor, you know. But all I
wanted to do when I was like really young, like
ten to eleven, was just to go up the West
End and around Piccadilly and just walk around looking for excitement.
That was it. I didn't. I mean I did notice
some trash bags here and there, but I really didn't
(04:50):
care about any any of that stuff. You know, John Lyon,
he was a lot sharper, you know what I mean.
I was pretty simple. I just wanted to do what
most teenagers want to do is get laid, have a laugh,
and get drunk.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
That was pretty much. Yeah, I'm not one of them.
The clash was more political than the sex pistols. I
think I think we didn't take ourselves serious. Like the
clash the class seemed very serious. But I'm not taking
away what we concocted, which was just a fluke. You know,
(05:28):
It's four guys. You just got together. It just happened
to be that the four guys. This was before Sid
when we had Glenn Matlock as the bass player, and
it was just magic for two years and then it
kind of started fizzling away.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So home was tough. Your stepfather was abusive. You write
all of this in your book Lonely Boy. Your dad disappeared.
You're reconnected with your real dad when you were fifty correct.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Oh, I never knew, but my friend kind of pushed
me to to look him up and I did. And
so it was in two thousand and eight and we
were touring sex pistols. We did like thirty shows, did
a bunch of festivals in Europe, and I'd spoken to
him one time. He kind of put two and two
(06:16):
together what was happening, and he agreed to meet me,
and I went up to Nottingham. He lived in Nottingham.
He got married after he left my mum. He has
three kids my age and I met him and that
was bizarre. How so Well, his voice is exactly the same,
and he really does look like me. And he was
(06:37):
a truck driver most of his life and he was
an amateur boxer. And I met him and we went
in this caf around a corner from the station in Nottingham,
and he was just he wouldn't shut up. He was
so guilt ridden, he just wouldn't be quiet. I'm like,
I don't care, shut up. I just want to receive
if you had hair or not. You know, I liked him,
(07:00):
actually liked him. They were young when they had me.
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, you think you would you be capable of doing
the same thing, you know, easy.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, So I've got no qualms with him. He's dead now.
My mom died around they were like eighty two. They
both kind of died the same time. Even though they
never spoke or anything since he left.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Really they never communicated. When you saw him, did you
either forgive him or have the impulse to forgive him?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah? I made it clear I didn't like a form more.
You know, I just said, look, it's all good, you know,
you don't have to keep going on about this, that
and the other. I really wanted to see you, and
I'm glad it turned out the way it did. My
biggest fear was when I called him and he was
going to say, I don't want nothing to do with you,
(07:56):
and that was it. So I think it turned out
pretty good a couple of times after that, and he
sent me a let and then that was it. It
just fizzled out. I had no desire to want to,
you know, hang out with him and all that was
that was long gone.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Now when you, I mean, we're going to meander here.
But when you after your heyday with the band and
that white hot period, had you visited Los Angeles? So
when did you first go to Los Angeles? And are
you like a lot of brits Ie now where they
walk out there and they're like, this is it, man,
I'm moving here the sunshine and blah blah.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Blah pretty much? I mean not at first. The first
time I came to LA is when the Pistols played.
We actually didn't play in LA but we did like
twelve shows or whatever. It was in January nineteen seventy eight.
January seventy eight, and we ended in San Francisco and
(08:52):
we broke up, and me and Cookie the drama and
the manager, Malcolm, we came to LA for a few days.
I didn't really get it at the time. I remember
we went in the Palm restaurant that was on Little
Santa Monica at the time and Malcolm's like, yeah, go on,
do something, throw some lobsters around, and we did it
(09:15):
like idiots. And then the next day we went to Brazil.
So I didn't really get the whole thing, but I
did get the whole thing in Hollywood, I mean, you know,
Los Angeles, whatever, Beverly Hills. A couple of years later,
when I went back there and produced this band called
The Avengers in San Francisco. They were one of the
(09:37):
bands that opened up for us on our last show
at the winter Land, and I produced this little weep.
I didn't know what I was doing. I was stoning
out of my mind on weed. Then I came to
LA and I hung out for a couple of weeks,
and that's when I fell in love with Los Angeles.
There was no traffic, big roads, big privacy. It was
(10:02):
just you know, night and day. Coming from Shepherd's Bush
in London, it was like Dickens, you know, like the
Dickens to Fantasy Island, you.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Know, Saversham's House.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I put it in my book. There was one moment
there was this lady who I met. She had a
big convertible. She had the convertible down a big, massive
Cadillac whatever it was. And she lived on Beverly Glen
and she goes, you want to go to see a movie?
And we went to see a drive in movie and
(10:35):
I'm smoking a joint. The tops down were just cruising
along and I'm like, I love this place. It just
all clicked, coming from Dickens to that, you know, Hollywood.
You know, it was the best.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Oh Man, Yeah, described to me that concert at winter Land,
because that's when that's when all the wheels fall off.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Correct, they were falling off before that, but that was
that was the end. That was like, it didn't look
like it was going any further.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Because the show sucked. What was the show?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Like? No, the show, well, I had the flu. It
was just it was getting sloppy. Were not communicating with
each other. Everyone's egos were going in different directions. And
we were twenty years old, you know, twenty one, and
it was just all this bombasket stuff that happened to
(11:33):
us really quick, and I couldn't handle it. I don't
know about the rest of the guys. I was relieved
when we broke up. They were I decided I've had
enough of this. I just I don't see a future
in it, you know, and that was it. And I
think it was manipulated a bit by Malcolm McClaren, the
manager attend. Yeah, that's right up his alley. That just
(11:57):
doing stuff like that, just you know, he wanted to
be a star, you.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Know, he wanted the band to end.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
I think so that's just his nature. I think the
fad ended. He don't like normalcy, you know, he likes
the chaos.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And maybe he thought you guys were going to go
much further. If everybody's so self destructive back then and
you're the manager, you think McLaren thought you guys were,
you know, reaching the end.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Anyway, I think he's a narcissist or he was a narcissist.
And I didn't think he fought that deep about other people, right.
I think he was more about just keeping that. He
was great at you know, publicity. He was excellent as that.
You know, some of the things that he came up
with were great. I love Malcolm. Even though you know
(12:47):
we got turned over financially, I still love McLaren. He
was a big part of my growing up.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Now when you mentioned that turned over financially, was McLaren
Was he the partner Westward? Were they together as a
couple or no, oh yeah, think were I don't know that.
I mean, I know her name, but I don't know,
but they were. They were a.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Couple, Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And you first met them where.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I met them in the shop they had down King's Road.
And it went through various names, but it was all
First it was too fast to live, too young to die.
Then it changed selling like teddy boy clothes. I don't
know if that term teddy boys is known in America.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yes, of people like me who know British music.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, yeah, fifties music, but it wasn't the fifties, but
they would sell stuff like that, and then it was
then it was lead it rock, and then it was seditionaries.
That's when the punk thing, and it was all the
bondage and all the MPs would go in there and
try on rob and nickers and play with themselves.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
They couldn't get elected if you didn't do that, and
you come out.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
It was a great time and now it's the world's end.
It's still viving westward now.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Now when you say you got tossed financially at various points,
let's say when you're recording and you're making this epic
album and beyond who owns the rights? Who owns that music?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Well, we do now you do you know? And whoever
the publisher is for the songwriting. But it has all
come back to us only because John Wright and wanted
to sue him a few years later Malcolm. Yeah, and
he did, and otherwise it would have all went to Malcolm.
(14:37):
We had the worst deal. We had one lawyer, it
was Malcolm's lawyer, and we just signed pieces of paper.
We didn't even exactly, We didn't know what was going on.
Not that it ain't the first time that happens, and
it will keep happening. It will keep happening because when
you're young, you don't know. You just want to get
out there and you know, get on the stage.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So when the original series is launched, the idea comes
to you or anybody for that matter, to do Pistol. Yeah,
a sixth part dramatic series about you guys. You've got
to give them the rights to the music, correct. Yeah,
And we had a problem with John. He didn't want
to allow it. He didn't want the series to happen.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Did he say why, Well, I can only think that
it wasn't his book. They were doing a thing on
it was mine right, that could have played a part.
I'm not sure, but I was thrilled that Danny Boyle
wanted to do that.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Great director.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, and he did a good job. I loved it. Yeah,
it was really good.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
What did you like about it?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think, like you said about the filth and the fury,
how it captured a time. I think he really captured
the time with all the sets and whatnot. I just
thought it was great. I just wish they had had
more on me in it.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Well, what's it like for you to see? Because when
you do a narrative piece that six episodes or five,
or a movie that's a couple of hours, there's an
idea about Steve Jones and Pistol that they want to
get across the person themselves is a suggestion. The piece
isn't about your life, you know, verbatim, and in real
(16:21):
time it's not. It can't be. What do you think
of the guy that played you? What did you When
you're watching that guy, you're saying, yeah, that's me.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
I think he did a good job. He's Australian, right,
so he had to kind of change his accent. He
ain't as good looking as me before. That's because of
that saying, yeah, no one, they couldn't find anyone. I
couldn't absorb it. To be honest, if you when i'd
see when I see, you know, an episode put together
in a rough stage, I'm looking at it. I'm like,
(16:50):
I'm not in that. I'm not in it. It's like
that ain't me, even though he's playing me. I couldn't.
I couldn't absorb it. It was the weirdest feeling. I
fall down in shit and I always come up smelling
the roses. You know, God's good for me.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Musician Steve Jones. If you enjoy conversations with some of
music's greatest guitarists, check out my episode with Peter Frampton.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Sound is very inspirational to me. I remember the reason
that I wanted to learn guitar was because I heard
the sounds of all these people on TV and on
the radio electric guitar very young. I have a very
acute sense of sound, and I've always had that if
I don't have a good sound, I can't play very well.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Hear more of my conversation with Peter Frampton at Here's
the Thing dot Org. After the break, Steve Jones shares
how the sex Pistols lineup came to be. I'm Alec
(18:06):
Baldwin and you're listening to here is the Thing. Steve
Jones and the sex Pistols cracked open issues of class
and culture in Great Britain in the nineteen seventies. Songs
like God Save the Queen and Anarchy in the UK
helped them become both a symbol of political turmoil and
an international sensation. I wanted to know if growing up,
(18:30):
Steve Jones ever thought he would become a world famous musician.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
No, you never. I never thought that, you know. When
I'd watched Top of the Pops, I thought these bands
and that they fell from mars. I didn't know it
was possible to do anything like that, you know. And
and next thing, you know, here I am. You know,
I steal all this musical equipment. I was good at,
(18:56):
you know, being a tea leaf. I always add these
to want to do it because I love music, you know,
at an early age, and it was just one of
them things. It seemed totally natural to become popular and
famous and a big band. I didn't realize that most
(19:17):
musicians that doesn't happen, you.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Know, now you started off as a singer. You're singing
and you passed that baton quick Why?
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I couldn't handle it. I got on the stage once
and I just freaked out. It was way too much
for me. I was not ready for that. This is
when Malcolm came up with the name Q E. Jones
and the Sex Pistols. And it was me. I was
singing this other guy, Wally Nightingale and Glenn Matlock, the
(19:48):
original bass player, and we was rehearsing, rehearse in, rehearsing,
and he like, got us this gig and we're doing
a lot of covers. I think we had one original.
We played this Salter's Cafe a down King's Road. I
was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. And I couldn't even
(20:08):
tell you what happened. It wasn't for me. My self
esteem weren't good.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Did it just so happen that you've had a confident
vocalist near you or did you tell him he had
to become a vocalist the way you became a guitarist.
Did he have to work at it? Well?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
After that failure show, we auditioned for a singer. And
this when John used to come into Malcolm's shop and
then we auditioned him in the shop. Now this when
when I heard this guy, I'm like, who is this clown?
He can't sing? We don't we don't want it, and
we want someone like Rod Stewart, you know. But that
was it, you know, it was it. It was this magic
(20:47):
and it took you know a little while, and then
we were like, wow, this is this is rotten? Yeah, yeah,
and it was complete. Then it was complete. You know.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Obviously you write about and much has written about you
that you didn't play the guitar early on as a
child and so forth, and then you flash ahead and
you're on Rolling Stones list of the one hundred greatest
guitarists in history. How did that happen?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Well, I used to do a lot of speed.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Really.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
That gave me the focus. You know. I had that
thing what kids have now ADT.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Or whatever it is ADHD.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, I definitely had that. I had no attention span.
I didn't I went to school. I just sat in
the back and just didn't even learn anything. I couldn't
even read and write, which I sought it out later
in years after getting clean, and so I actually had
a tutor to help me read and write. I couldn't
even sign a check.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
But you dug down and you learned how to play.
I read where you said you take a chord and
play that chord for like five hours until you got
that down. You did it step by step.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
The Black Beauty Way of learning guitar, the Black Beauty School.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, I love it now, speaking of Black Beauties. Two
weeks ago, this past Friday, on the twenty third of February,
I had my thirty ninth anniversary.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
At AA Oh Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Now. I don't talk about sobriety that much on the show,
but if I find it's worthwhile, I will. And for you,
when did you realize something had to change? And how
quickly thereafter did you change it?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Well, I'm thirty three years at Cleveland sober.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
That's where I met you. Out there, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I drifted out to California, not
the time when I fell in love with it. Later
I was in this the band broke up, we went
to England. I started this other band called the Professionals,
and we did a tour. I ended up in New York.
I didn't get on the plane. I stayed in New
York for about a year, I sold my passport and
(22:57):
then I got this other band together, or a band
was We played at the Pep Momint Lounge. It was
like a showcase with Michael Debar's and two of the
guys from Blondie and it was great. But they were
all based in la And then I drifted out to La.
I detoxed. I went to some methodone place in set
(23:21):
a high end methodone place in Century City, and I
got clean and I started living with Michael Debars, but
I wasn't ready to be sober, and so i'd hung
out with him when I lived with him for a while,
and then I did start to be aware of alcoholics anonymous,
(23:43):
but it shook me another six years of being homeless,
slept on someone's couch who was sober, and then I
would get thirty days, sixty days, you know. I started going.
I liked it, the attention, it was felt like a
safe place. But I had no clue of what was
(24:06):
going on. And it took me, you know, a few
more years when the coin dropped and I'm like, I'm done.
I mean, obviously, it's the best thing that's ever happened
to me. You know, Prior at his two lives is
before sobriety and now sobriety. I'm not a completely different person,
(24:27):
and I didn't know. I didn't know that this was
going to be in my journey at all. But I
was living up. I was making money at this point,
and I was living up in the canyon making money
how doing solo stuff. I started working with Iggy Pop
and Andy Taylor from Deuran Duran, playing guitar sessions, yeah,
and riting. I couldn't get arrested. Prior to that, I
(24:49):
had the worst reputation because I couldn't keep my hands
in my pockets. Everything disappeared and I was just, you know,
a junkie. No one wants to really hang out. So yeah,
it took a long time. But I remember the last
relapse that I had. I bet some guy in the
valley and I was buying balloons off him. It wasn't working,
(25:14):
and I went back. I took a victim a new bile.
We were shooting up and I'm like, you know what,
I need to go back and get my shit together.
And so I got a bunch of kludes and some
other painkillers and I was going to get sober and
(25:36):
sneak back in to the rooms and no one would know.
And I lasted about two hours and that's when the
coin literally dropped, and I'm like, I'm done. I just
can't do this anymore. And it wasn't financial or anything
like that. It was emotional and that was it. It
was just all of a sudden after going to AA
(25:58):
for about six or seven years, in and out, in
and out, that was when the coin dropped, and that's
when it all changed.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
The book is filled with these brilliant phrases like incomprehensible demoralization.
That phrase just was tattooed on my forehead. I was
incomprehensibly demoralized. When you got sober and you stayed sober
for quite some time, how did that change your life
in terms of friends. Did you maintain some of the
old friends and people who weren't sober, or did all
(26:26):
your friends become sober people.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
I really didn't have a lot of friends. They didn't
want to be my friend because I wasn't a good friend.
There was a few. I was so desperate, you know,
I was so desperate when I got sober for real
that everyone I hung out with was in the rooms.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
But that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
That was it. I didn't want to hang out with
other people. I had a friend of mine visit me
once from England who was a witness school with. His
name was Jimmy Mackin. He was a really, really bad drunk.
I mean, he was one of them guys. He loved
to fight when he was at a couple of drinks. Anyway,
he was dry as a bone. And he came to
(27:13):
visit me and I couldn't wait for him to leave.
His energy was so bad. I was so uncomfortable around him.
He was like a time bomb. Yeah, you know, dry
as a bone. And he finally left after a few days,
and he went back and committed suicide. He was in
(27:34):
Chiswick Park and put in a car and he put
the old exhaust pipe into the thing and killed himself.
And you know, my point is is that it's so
different when you surrender, you know, it's so different when
you get to that point. I have no idea why
I'm one of the lucky ones that I'm still sober.
(27:58):
I have no idea because I don't really do anything
different than anyone else. I was definitely a lot more desperate.
It was tough at first, you know, changing and basically
starting from scratch. For me, like I said, I was illiterate.
I didn't know how to behave. It was all about me.
(28:19):
What can I get? It was all about doing something
nice for someone because there's going to be something in it.
For me, I was so self absorbed and me, me, me,
me me, you know. And when that changed after many years,
it didn't just that when I walked in to the rooms,
and it was that process, that long process, and I'm
(28:43):
just so grateful. You know. I still go to about
four millions a week in person. Yeah, I just love it.
I love it, you know. I love being of service.
I don't like getting old. I will say that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Steve Jones. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend
and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the
iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. After
the break, Steve Jones shares the meaning behind the title
of his memoir Lonely Boy. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're
(29:29):
listening to Here's the Thing. Steve Jones and the members
of the Sex Pistols embodied the nineteen seventies punk scene
in the United Kingdom. It also had them rubbing elbows
with other up and coming artists, designers and musicians like
Chrissy Hind of the Pretenders.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Chrissy she used to work in the shop that Malcolm
McLaren might Ivia Westwood shop, and I met her here
and she was great, man, she was summing else, a
real badass, you know. And the band started. She used
to come to the shows. She wanted to be in
a band. I didn't take her seriously. She used to
(30:10):
stay with me sometimes we'd hang out. We had a
great time. And then she got a band together and
then sold more records than the sex Pistols, you know.
And a great songwriter, a great voice. I love Christy.
I see her all the time. She's in the series.
She's in the show. She can't when she saw it,
(30:30):
she's like, what I'm in this more than you guys.
What's going on? And I'm like, I know, I don't understand.
I mean, I think it was the you know, the
political correct thing to have more women stuff, you know.
And the girl who played Chrissy was great, and man,
I got not a bad word to say for Christy.
I always see her when I go over there. But
(30:53):
the bottom line was I was incapable of relationships. All
I wanted to do was get laid with different people.
Once I got to know someone a little bit, the
old Hanson just wouldn't stand up, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
We're done, We're done. The thing about Chrissy that I
always remember is she had so much respect from people. People.
You know, Chrissy's interesting, and she's beautiful, and she's a
very exotic, you know, in her whole package. But people
really really admire her. And she's a great fucking musician.
I think she's really at the top of the heap,
you know.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
She is. You know, it's weird about her. When she
started recording, she had the same producer who produced in
never Mind the Bollocks, Chris Thomas. She couldn't have anyone
in the studio when she was singing. She was so
insecure about her voice. She just couldn't do it. I mean,
she's all right now, but for a few years, a
(31:48):
few albums, she couldn't have anyone around when she was singing.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
So, speaking of your your sexual appetite, of course, there's
no surprise to any of us that you end up
on California. Yeah, in your acting career now, when you
were on Californication. What did you play?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I played a tour manager.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
And what happened on the show with you and Ducoveny.
Do you have scenes with Dukeveney?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, I had a few. I went on it and
it was I was only meant to do one episode,
and they liked me and I ended up doing two seasons.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
I just said, I don't mind an accent. Just don't
give me a lot of lines. I'm terrible remember. I'm
terrible at remembering.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Your book is called Lonely Boy, and that's a very
powerful thing to say, because when you have that feeling
about your childhood, Why did you choose that title? Why?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Because I'm always alone even now, even now, even now,
even with thirty three years of sobriety, there's still that
part of me that just is always got that empty
feeling of being alone. I don't think that I don't
think that's ever going to go, you know. And I'm
not preferred, no, I mean, I've never had a relationship really,
(33:06):
you know. I'm hard work, man, I'm hard work to
be around sometimes, you know, especially with in a relationship.
I've tried it. I actually tried it last year for
about a year and it just it just fizzled out.
I just can't do it right, I just cannot do it.
I mean I'm damaged. Goods mate. It's not that I
(33:29):
don't want to, but I really don't have the choice
to have it or not. I just don't have the choice. Yeah,
I just am not. You know, various things happened when
I was a kid.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Have you been able to overcome back to some degree
or is it still as vivid in your mind from
time to time as it was back then what you
had to go through with your as a child, as
a boy.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
No, I've definitely overcome it. I'm just left with there's
some things I think you just can't change. It don't
matter how much work you do on it, on something.
You know. He e molested me once, the stepfather. I
was like ten. He made me jerk him off, you know,
when my mom was in hospital. But that was enough
(34:16):
just to throw me off because I'm a sensitive I'm
a real sensitive and that was it. Coupled with that
and my mother not really being on the ball, not
a nurturing person, not protecting you, not protecting me. He
came before me. I was I was second fiddle. We
used to have a tin had therapy once, right, And
(34:38):
I'm in the therapy office and I'm trying to explain
to the therapist, And I was explaining it to her,
not for what was going on, but to explain how
poor he was. We used to have a tin bath
and we would fill it up with a kettle, right,
and my mom would go first, then my stepdad, then
(35:00):
I would get in last. And the therapist says, it's
funny that they put you in last and not first.
Most normal parents, loving parents.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
With the children, who's cared for first?
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah, child, And it hit me like a sound of bricks,
and I started crying my eyes out. It was like
a moment and I never even saw it. You know,
prior to that.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Well, whatever you've been through and whatever trouble you've had
to face and pain you've had to face. When that
guy you in that shower with the guitar, you play
songs and the tears are rolling down my face because
of your musical ability, in spite of everything you've had
happened to you, in spite of all the shit you've
(35:47):
had to put up with, in spite of what you
put yourself through as well, you get in there and
you play those songs and the beauty of your musicianship
and who you are in your soul as a result
of everything you went through. I'm telling you, it makes
me cry every time. Do you have no idea what
(36:08):
that means to be? Because you're so fucking talented and
you reach people that way, you reach them. The guy
in the shower is one of the greatest musicians ever.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Well, I was actually I was actually going to do
one today, a new one, some of them. I really
appreciate that. Ben. Honestly, you've almost got me to here
that because I don't think I'm a good musician.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
You are a great You're a great musician.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Man.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
People love you. They love your musicianship, your guitar playing,
your crazy youth and now people can watch you. You
think it's like a little amuse boosh, you're floating out
there to people. Let me tell you something, I look
forward to those. You're blessed. You're blessed from God. Don't
forget that. Okay, all right, mate? Thanks a lot, my
(36:54):
love to you, and thank you for doing this.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Thank you. I had fun.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
My thanks to Steve Jones. If like me, you can't
get enough of Steve Jones singing in the shower. Visit
his Instagram page at Jonesy's Jukebox. That's at j O
n E s y S Jukebox. I'll Leave You with
No Feelings off of the nineteen seventy seven album never
(37:23):
Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. I'm Alec Baldwin.
Here's the thing is. Brought to you by iHeart Radio Jones. Hi,
(38:01):
I'm putty w I go free.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I Know, I Know, I
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