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April 18, 2019 58 mins

Stephanie emotionally opens up about her relationship  with her family since getting everything off her chest.   And she faces the reality of what will happen as we get closer to the premiere of The Hills: New Beginnings. 

Wells has to take a breath and process everything that happened with Stephanie and her family. We talk to Dr. Jenn Mann, a psychotherapist, and she shares her thoughts on what Stephanie is going through, and what she can do to heal. 

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is I Heeart Radios podcast with see kind of
more just Wells Adams because Steph is in Hawaii again,
I guess, so we are going to, uh, we're gonna
break down last week's episode because it was a barn burner.

It was a bit stressful, alright, I have I've had
to see my therapist a couple of times because of it. Um,
but we're gonna get through it together. Speaking of, we
have Dr jen Mann coming on the show and we're
going to ask her what her true thoughts are of
the last episode without Steph on the show yet. So

Dr Jenn are you there? I am, I am. How
you doing? I'm okay, all right, I'm a little rattled
from last week, but I'm gonna get through this. Yeah,
And I have to say you did a great job
with your put And you know, there's nothing that I
wouldn't say about what Jephanie said last week that I

wouldn't say to her directly as well. So all right,
that's good. But you can speak freely because she's not
on the show currently. So you did listen to the episode,
I guess my question is, are you familiar with the
kind of the feud of the family and the Hills
in general before listening to last week's episode Heid And

there was a lot of talk about and Spenter coming
on my show Couple of Therapy with Dr Jen on
PG one for a while. So I'm kind of I
don't know a lot of the details. I was not
an avid show watched her, but I did get enough
the details from the producer about a little bit of
the history. I listened to your last show, so I
have an overview of kind of what the family dynamic.

Saw was a pretty bully from what Stephanie is saying
and from what I have seen in the in the press.
A family truth about any argument is that there are
three truths to the argument. There's Stephanie's truth, there's probably
Spencer and Heidi's truth, and then there's probably the actual truth.
You just got to hear You just got to hear

Stephanie's um in the episode last week, just right off
the bat, overall general feelings of of kind of the
argument and what she's angry about, Like, how do you
how do you break it down? Well, so I think
you're absolutely right. You know. It's what I call the
blossom on effect. It was this Japanese history film that
made a million years ago or two men were in

the same room and had the same experience, and each
part of the movie was each one of them describing
it from their perspective, and they had totally different perspectives.
And that is like I'm sure like you were, like
you're saying, we had Stephanie one room and they all
described it. They could be in the same room for
the same event and all a totally different perspective. First

of all, one of the things that concern me and
I understood we're stand was kind of fun when she
said the Spencer said this is a Heidi thing and
he tried to stay out of it, like that this
is his wife and that you know, he needs piece
Borg's life. That I agree, absolutely it's important that couples
stick together, that they support each other. But I also
think it's definitely letting center off the hook. But she

needs to hope, you responsible with his choice, that he
can find a better balance from what she's saying, being
respectful to his wife and being connected with her and
at the same time not just kind of doing that
hands up her. I don't know, I've nothing to do
with this that to me, there is a better balance
to be had for this family that will make for

a healthier family's dis Yeah. This isn't like the newest story,
like the first time this story has ever been told.
It happens all the time where you know sister in
laws don't get along, or mother in laws and and
and daughter in laws don't get along. Um. Yeah, after
listening to the episode, do you think there's any way
back for all them? Look? I spend my life walked

to those too, helping families and couples and people repair relationship,
so I believe that there's always a possibility. I One
of the things that really struck me on what Stephanie
described is, you know this whole Champaign thing of of
hidil even per champaign, and a lot of the time,
what I see in relationships is that when there's anger

that is unexpressed, it tends to leak out in behaviors
and behaviors that are progressless, sometimes aggressive sometimes Markie. My
impression is that if this is not, like you mentioned before,
a publicity stunt by Heidi in an attempt to create conflict,
but if this is a genuine thing that's literally happening

where hid opted not to give Stepine champagne while everyone
else in the room had it, and very blatantly withheld
it or didn't just say like, oh, I'm sorry I
forgot to, but actually with held it from her. Then
you've got a lot of what's going on from Heidi.
That Heidi is so angry at Stephanie that she's acting

out like this. People don't think for no reason. We
were pretty much always do thing for a reason or
not always conscious of it. But something is being played
out in this family and in this dynamic it is
important to look at. Can I give a little insight
on that? So I think from Stephanie and this is
what I know from what she said, and she'll talk

about this with Wells later today. She has always felt
that Spencer is more important in the family than she is,
and that may set up some of this. He's the
only boy, right only, So there you go. And whether
that's the reality or not in actuality, who knows, but

she definitely feels that. And I think that she said
it's something that was really important last week that I
think a lot of people can learn from because we're
the specifics of this family dynamics are obviously really unique,
giving reality TV, given celebrity, given all of that sort
of stuff. What Hampany said about you know what, I

realized they I can't care take my parents and put
their needs for us anymore. I have to start making
good boundaries and taking care of me. I think that's
a lesson to be learned by everybody. And I think
that most people have unhealthy family dynamics to get played
out over and over, and there comes a point in
our own growth, our own development, where we have to say, Okay,

I'm going to approach this with maturity and respect, that
I'm going to have good boundaries, I'm going to take
care of me, and I'm gonna put taking care of
myself art. And I was really encouraged to hear stuff
will say that what after listening to the episode, Like,
what are some of your concerns with Stephanie's take on

the whole thing? Um, obviously I'd like to hear at
the other side. You know, look, I we it would
be amazing to get to sit down and do family
therapy with this whole family. I think there is so
much to be said, and it is that rosat effect
that I'm interested in hearing what spencer ideas are about,

what his perceptive is, what height these is. Because look,
nothing happens in a vacuum, and we all part titsipate
in a family system in ways that sometimes we're aware of,
sometimes we're not, and sometimes we feed the system. Sometimes
we feed. Okay, everyone likes my brother more so I
see the system by hanging back and letting him have

the attention, or not making boundaries or not making ways.
So I think that the main, my main concern for
Semphani is that kind of previous mentality that she's had.
I'm not going to make waves. I don't want us
set my parents and I get it. It's complicated. She
clearly loves her parents. She they saw amazing, wonderful people.

And it's important as a woman in terms of the
doll pay her own the same in terms of her
own boundaries, in terms our own mental health, that she
is able to voice her needs and able to say
what she needs to say and not have to walk
on it shall afraid that people will be upset with
her speaking of the parents, Um, as a mom, when

your kids are fighting, like, how do you insert yourself
into that situation to help kind of rectify it. It's look,
it's tough. I have twin daughters. Um, you know it
is it comes up. I always try to as a
parent walk the line between not taking over and making

people say or do things that they don't want to
do a dolt, you know, for example. And you know
I started this when my kids are really little. But
this to me is applicable to you know, this family,
this pro family. I've never I don't even making kids
say I'm sorry. I think that what you get is
a lot of people just parting was I'm sorry, all

your sisters sorry? Are your brother You're sorry? And I
think an important part of this dynamic is to not
have people just say things to play cake people. And
like I mentioned before, my biggest conformist define is I
don't want to playcadding people. I think it's important for
her well being that she learns to void herney's and
her opinions in a healthy way and get her needs met.

So when it comes to conflict among siblings, as a parent,
to me, that he is if you're involved in the
actual conflict and and they kind of indirectly directly, are
um to be able to talk to that I think
this family is that they really need family therapy. They
need to be sitting down with the skills family therapist

to talk to all of this history and conflicts and
what's the dynamics al right now and how to change them,
but also everybody developing the skills and the tools to
communicate in the productive way. A lot of the time,
especially when people are triggered, when people are pissed off,
people are hurt, they tend to just lash out. And

you can deliver the same message in a lot of
different ways. There are ways you can deliver it where
it gets can escalate the complex, or their ways you
can deliver it where it's actually gonna land and they
progress and there's going to be you can really touch
upone and shifting there thinking. You know, the reason why
people cry their eyes out on my show is we

do real therapy and people allow things to land. We
create an atmosphere where real truths can be told and
people can make change and change in painople and it's
often painful and ramatic, but well worth it. When I
listened back to that episode, I mean a lot of

thoughts ripped through my brain, but I think the one
that I like kind of settled on. Was Stephanie has
been I don't know, lack of a better term, hoarding
all of this kind of like aggression and ill will
somewhere like deep inside of her her brain. And all
of a sudden one night, Uh, she had a glass

of wine and and and and she remembered this one
photo shoot and it just seemed all like come flowing
out of her, like it almost was she couldn't stop herself. Yeah,
I saw that leaky anger. Yeah, when people tend to
hold off to their growth, when people get their feelings

hurt and don't or as it happens, like people like
to take so you can just kind of sleep it
under the world, but propund like it's not happening or
not making me feel a bit. But things that don't
get talked through build up, and it leaked out in
ways that are just not at And I agree with you.
I think that she's been holding onto a lot with

a lot of different family members that had built up,
so as as friends of Stephanie UM and colleagues of
her as well, Like, what what do you suggest we do?
Because I feel like we're now in kind of a
precarious situation, Like do we do we listen, do we
try to fix the problem, do we try to get

you know, the family together? Like, what do you suggest
as as a therapist that we should do going forward?
I think you that's a great question. First of all,
one of the things I really appreciated about Listen to
the last episode was that you're not a yes man.
I really thought it was wonderful as a friend, how
you challenged her and we were able to go like, well,

what do you what do you think your partners might be? Well,
you know, do you think that there's anything to use
done that has contributed to this complement? I thought that
that was really terrific. You did it in a very loving,
supportive way that I thought was great, and I think
continue to do that. I think supporting her and letting
her kind of bomb it out her feelings and kind
of let it all out it really important to feel

with me to space space to get that out, but
that you can kind of organized her off to figure
out what your priorities are in terms of what needs
to be addressed. I think that it's great. I think
she meant that that she is in an individual therapy.
I think her continuing individual therapy um and I do
think that everyone encouraging this family to get family therapy

is really going to be key. I don't think that
this is I think the death and the level of
pain and history between all of these members is so significant,
and also truthfully, the lack of tools and high level
communication ability will triggered is so low that I don't

think that they can all do this on their own.
I think that they need to profess hell in the
room to help them sort through this in a productive way.
Otherwise I think it's just going to turn into a messy, screaming,
yelling bite that's going to be unproductive. Do you think
that this family has no business being on reality TV? Um?

I think that they make for delicious, amazing fodder for
producer consumer. Of course, that's not what I'm asking. It's
amazing television. Yeah, yeah, I think it's such emotionally No, no,
I think I think probably not all. The one thing
I do have to say is that a lot of

the time, and again, one of the reasons why my
show's a couple therapy and family therapy have been such
a success is you know, there are celeby couples of
celebrity families who come out on my show. A lot
of the time the celebrities I get on my show
are celebrities would never do individual couples that wouldn't They

just wouldn't do the therapy if there wasn't a camera
in the room. And sometimes what happens They come in
and they go, oh, you know what, like I'm gonna
manipulate the system, But there isn't anyone manipulating the system
when you start to real therapy. And so sometimes someone
like Tidi and Spencer to do their best therapy in

the room with the camera because that's what they're used to,
that's what they grew up with. That's kind of where
they're they're efficient water when they have that camera there.
So sometimes they actually believe it or not, even though
it seems like it wouldn't be the case. Sometimes it
allows people to do work that they wouldn't do out
a lot. Yeah, I guess um. One question I always

like to ask when I have people on the show
is is there anything that I didn't ask you that
you wish that I had asked you as if the
show had ended, Like what am I not touching on
that we should be talking about? Well, you have one
thing that interested me. Is it definitely talked about. She
said that she shruggled with depression and anxiety, and she
said something about bipolar depression, and I don't know if

she meant literally with bipolar or if it feels bipolar,
but I think that an important part in all of
this is her addressing her own depression and anxiety whatever's
going on. Because when you're going into a super triggering

situation and you know, like nobody can trigger you, like
your family or your romantic partner, that's like the top
of the line. So if you're going into situation where
you are likely to be triggers, you want to make
sure you go in with a strong foundation, where you've
run your work on yourself, so you can go in strong.
You can go in clear headed, you can go in

and not be reactive and super emotional and be able
to kind of sort through what the art is. You
can actually work through the issues at hand. Yeah, Amy,
do you have any other questions for for Dr Jim No,
But I'm super nervous about Stephanie because I think she
feels good because I've obviously talked to her the last

over the last week or two. But I think she
has a lot she really wants to get out, and
I think she finds us a healing place to let
it all out, which then gives me anxiety diarrhea. It's

very oddly stressful for Wells and I to be sort
of involved in this. And I won't go into detail,
but there is some blame being placed on us, yeah,
for sure. And and when I go listen back to
like I'm then the reality TV shows and and been
in the role of almost a producer on some of

those reality TV shows, I know what works and what doesn't.
And I wasn't trying to do that. I was just
trying to like let her talk on the microphone, get
her thoughts out. I could have we could have buried
Spencer more, I thought, in hide some more, but we
actually I felt like we took their side of the
story a lot more. Um. Yeah, I will say this

because I love Steph. I love her, I've been friends
with her for many years. I also very much like
Spencer and Heidi very very much. They're very charming, likable people.
So yeah, I mean I'm sort of with Wells and that.
I think there's eight seven versions of this story, none
of which are accurate. Well, can I say this is

and I would say this Astef and I will say
this is Sef to her face. I think the big
problem with this family as misguided blame um. And they
can be mad at us, they can be mad at
I heart, they can be mad at the show or whatever.
But we didn't do this, you know, like we really
didn't create this issue, and it's so easy to blame us.
But maybe, uh, it might be better to start looking

inward rather than oward, is my kind of final thought there.
And I think that what you're telling blame to me.
My sense of what happened is you know that Jephanie
has all the stuff that she's been pushing down and
pushing down and trying not to deal with and not
wanting to upset the Apple card up that our parents

or you know, make waves or Ali made anyone, and
she's been picking up with you down and Adam, I
heard you ask questions that were totally legit, and I
think it's just kind of burst the bubble. And it's
kind of a fragile bubble because she's been holding on
just so much for so long that I think it
just was down to kind of explode at some point,

whether or here or some point. That brings up an
interesting point, Dr Jen. Because Steph grew up on the hills, essentially,
she was like late teenager, young twenties maybe when she
went on and it was on for years and has
continued on reality shows. Is that why she feels more
comfortable opening up it to the microphone? Have you ever

seen that? I think I guess you're saying that about
couples therapy too, that they will only do it when
the camera's there because it's their safe space. I see
it all the time, and so that would not surprise
me at all. I think when you grow up on
camera and you know, if you guys ever saw the
Truman Show, you know the where Jim Carrey like group

basically grew up on the teller like I self. A
lot of these kids who grew up all of these
shows are used to it, and there's there is a
certain kind of comfort in it and then understanding of
like okay, it's time to sell, and I think it's
time to do it. It's very counterintuitive to the person,
the average person like me, because it's like what are

you doing? You know, like where I if there was
a camera or a microphone. I would be I would
want to run away totally. And and and also you
know what happens. And I'm sure you've heard people in
reality TV say this is we have a camera following
me around for a long lunch. It's kind of stuff
to almost forget that it is there, which seems like
a dichotomy that on one hand, being there helping you

open up more of the other hands, you forget that
it's there, but it kind of becomes integrated into your life.
And and you know, part of the culture of being
a reality TV does shift your thinking. And I think
you know, in situations like this, it does encourage you
to open up. It does encourage you to kind of

speak what you need to speak, sometimes not in healthy ways,
but when you can be done in a healthy way,
it could be really helpful on the factor. Yeah, I
think that My last kind of thought on is that
there is an unfortunate positive affirmation that comes with reality
TV that kind of states that if you are as

dramatic and as bombastic as possible, Uh, that's great TV,
and it is, but it doesn't make for great family
and home life. So I think we need to try
to figure out a way to kind of balance the
two first staff. Dr jim Man, thank you so much
for being on the show. I really do appreciate it,
my pleasure. UM, we're probably gonna need you again. Let's

be fair, so just you know, stick around. Will maybe
next week. Good luck to us where you got it all?
Don't care? All right? We got Steph on the broadcast.
How are you what? I'm here? I know we started

the show without you though, which feels always weird when
you're not here, But I want to know, how are you?
I'm I'm I'm good. I I haven't talked to anyone
in my family. Um. And it was, you know, the
night before my birthday, which was Wednesday night, I had
a lot of anxiety and my friends have taken me

out for dinner and I was like, you know what,
I'm sorry, Like I'm not in the mood to drink.
I just want to go home because there was such
like building anxiety of are my parents gonna email me
happy birthday? Are they going to text me like here
from my sister and like the gut, my gut said no.

But the night before it was just like I didn't
even sleep, and then all my birthday I had a
great birthday, and you know, because of the time difference,
which I totally know now three hours from Hawaii, um
that you know, they hadn't texted in the morning and
or emailed and that was that. So that was like
a lot of pressure was off because I wasn't waiting

the whole day for my birthday. But you know, we
haven't talked since, and you know, I've been having horrible nightmares.
But I think once you know, this podcast is done,
I'm going to be a lot better than I have
this past week. That's good. So wait, hold on, So
you're no one in your family texted you happy birthday,

I'm no. Well, I had my third year old niece
text me and we don't really text. She wrote, happy birthday.
I love you so much. I'm in the car with
my mom and she says happy birthday too. So my
sister had my niece stay happy birthday and she kind of,

you know, kind of said it. What is that weird?
Like it was? It was. It was insane. I showed
the group of people I was with. I was like, wow,
like my third une old niece is having to say
happy birthday and then like quickly include her mom and
my sister. Well, I mean it's it's things will never
ever be the same, like this says, I probably know

my parents have disowned me. I mean that I've that
and I've escaped a very dysfunctional family. I'm like heartbroken again.
You know, It's just I know, it's really hard. That's
why we had wells talked to the therapist before or
you came on, because we wanted to talk to her

to see what we can do. And then I think
I'm already and then now I'm just heartbroken again. I mean,
I just I'm just trying to get out my family.
If no one texted me on my birthday, I would
be like, h well, I mean, so do you regret
any of the things that you said last week? Like
listening back, I feel, you know what, the support that

I got from people was so overwhelming, and I mean
like I couldn't believe all the I don't read comments,
but you guys had said like wow, the feedback to
the goods. So I did, like look at all my
Instagram and Twitter and everything, and I was like blown away.
But everyone was so nice. I mean not support definitely

helped and saying everything I do feel so much lighter.
You know, this burden of secrets for ten years. It's
it's just it's I feel free, like I'm finally doing me.
How I'm not doing my parents? My parents work. How's

your anxiety because it would give me anxiety the situation,
Like I have anxiety and I'm not even in this situation.
How's your sort of anxiety stress level now? A week later,
week and a half later, I mean, it's pretty bad.
But the only thing that I'm like really thinking about

a lot is um my parents, because you know, Spencer
and Heidi will be fuming to hear you know, this
podcast and that our whole family hates her, which will
give her even more power to play games with my

mom about seeing Gunner or not seeing Gunner, which is
probably the latter will happen. So I'm sad for what
it has done my parents. But like what my parents
don't understand is that when they're old, I'm the one
that's going to move them in with me and take
care of them. Like do you see Heidi and Spencer

doing anything for them? Like all they care about is
each other before family. So my parents don't get that,
Like they're rooting for the wrong kid, and it's always
been that way. Like as I've been reflecting so much
about since I was eighteen, it has always been my brother.

I mean, he was never told to get a job.
I was an intern in high school. I worked in
a clothing store. Then I was a hostess at a restaurant.
My parents were always on me, get a job, get
a job. What was Spencer doing? He was playing in Malibu.
You know, this was before like Heidi in the Hills.
It was just it's always been and my brother is

just like untouchable. So I just don't understand why they
give him so much love and support and value him
so much more than they value me that they actually
had me grin and bear all the things that Heidi

has done for the past two ten years to my family. Like,
you know, I'm mad at my parents when my brother
went a wall, Like I feel like my dad's forgotten this.
There are three years when you know, he wasn't around,
and I learned about sports and would watch football, soccer, golf,

any sport and learned about it with my dad to
fill in the loss of his son. So I was
kind of like acting as his son because I knew
he really missed him, So, I mean, did he forget
those three years when I was like calling him constantly Tubo?
Did you see that? Like, it's just like my parents

just don't I feel like I'm out of the jungle
and I'm on a cliff looking down at it, and
they're still in the jungle, not having clarity and seeing
like what they've been asking me to do it is
more than anyone can handle. And especially in the public eye.
It seems to me that it might be it might

be too far gone for you and Spencer and Heidi
too um to kind of like reconnect. But like, is
there anything in you that wants to kind of mend
the fences with your parents? No, you know, I it's

just my parents have done so many things to help
Hidy and to screw me over. Like I remember wanted
to get my dog from my parents house years ago
and my mom said, you can't come over Heidi swimming,
and that happened a lot. You know, where is it Christmas?
Like from my parents, They've allowed so much to happen,

and they've expected me to just you know, continue being
so nice to her. I mean, there wasn't a year
that I didn't get her really thoughtful Christmas presents. This year.
I got her matching sweatsuits with my mom's sister and
I and a Gucci hambag. I mean, like every Christmas,
I am being thoughtful when I come home. Has she

ever given me anything? No? But like I do not
stop trying. So my like my parents, like they have
chosen and I understand. Like if we were speaking, I
would say to them, Look, I live in London. You

now have a grandson five minutes away from you, guys,
Like I wish you hadn't chose him since I was eighteen,
but like, now choose him. Like You've got a grandson
five minutes away from you, and I'm in London. So
that's how it's gonna be. Like you chose them. I'm

going to be on my own, but a lot of friends.
I would assume though, if your parents were in the
room right now, they would say, well, we don't want
to choose, we want both of you guys. You guys
are both our children. It's no, it's just always keeps
front so happy. Look, my parents probably despise me for this,

for this mess that I've gone gotten them into by
exposing this, but really by just venting like to hen
years of this, I mean, and she's just made it
so hard. Like if she was like cool about it,
you know, I could probably like keep the facada for longer.

But she she's not nice, Like, you know, there was Christmas.
There was a Christmas that she had done something so
gross to her family right now, yeah, sorry, there was
a Christmas that she had done something so gross to
our family that she couldn't even be around us or

look at us. So she locked herself in the library
her whole entire day. And she said it was because
she had to watch her dogs. So I mean, like
she knows, like she will like avoid or kind of
hide when she knows that she's just done something very

very bad to my family. You think there's any way
back from this? Like, is there any conceivable scenario where
everyone comes back together and and works things out? Like
would it be your brother having to come to you
and say, hey, listen, I'm sorry I hadn't defended like

you more to Heidi Or is it your parents saying
you know what, You're right, we do tend to dote
on your brother a little more than you, Or is
it Heidi coming forward and saying you know what, I
need to be a better sister in law and I
need to we need to work this out. Is there
anything that can happen that can make this thing right
again in your eyes? No? Never, m you know, it

was all over when I became friends with Lauren. That
was years ago. That's so they've been together for twelve years.
And I always say that this has been ten years
of this burden because it was, you know, when they
got married and everything. But again, like when Spencer and

Heidi lope, my mom called me hysterical because she was
standing in front of the magazine cover at the grocery
store saying they had a Loach called me hysterical and said,
do you think this is true? We weren't invited to
their wedding than it was sad And that's when things
really changed. After that, when they eloped, it was clear

that they only cared about themselves. And when I got
on the show My Friends with Lauren, that was it.
So after listening back to the episode, I had a
few kind of thoughts on on your perception of things,
and I say it in the last episode where I'm like,
it's so easy for women to bash other women, um

and for whatever reason. Usually it happens in relationships where
um where Look, let's say a girl goes and hooks
up with like your friends boyfriend. It's so easy to
be mad at the girl and then and then leave
no blame on the guy, even the guy was completely
culpable and probably more lipable than the girl. Um. I

hear so much that Heidi is the issue and so
little that Spencer is. Do you think that like your
um like, the scales of your anger are are rightfully
balanced in this kind of argument that you're having with
your brother and your sister in law. If if they

never met, there's no way that these past ten years
would have been so tragic from my family what they
did meet. And this is your brother. Look, my brother's
definitely not an angel. Like I've been protecting him as well.
But you know when I when I so, I moved

to Paris when I was eighteen to go to college
and Spencer came out to visit me and something went
terribly wrong. Then I'm not going to say, um, so
I wasn't ever going back. He basically left me like

an eight page letter under my door and took like
the next light home to l a like it was
really bad. And my mom said come home for Christmas.
And I said, there's no way I'm coming home for
Christmas after after this, and she said, no, Spencer's with Brody.
They're on a yacht in the Mediterranean. Please just come home.

And so I was like, Okay, if he's gone, then yeah,
I will come home for Christmas. I've never missed a Christmas. Um.
I got home and my parents, well, this is great.
I came home and in my bedroom where all these
presents from Spencer. So do you Yeah? So I knew

my parents had lied and that he was in town
and he felt guilty, so my bed was covered in presence. Um. So, anyways,
I was home and my parents told me that I
wasn't going back to school in Paris, that they were
sending my sister and her husband to go pack up
my apartment. So fast forward to London Spencer and Heidi. Well,

Spencer did the same thing, but now Howdi was involved,
and they told my mom that I should be living there.
So when I came home, my mom was like, you're
not going to go back to London. We don't think
it's good for you. And the next thing that happened.
I was just like, he cannot keep ruining my life

and there's a lot of control being placed over you.
And yeah, and the next thing I knew because I
was still out of control. The next thing I knew,
I was in an ambulance from a suicide attempt. Like
I just if they I had lost Paris. There we're
trying to make me lose London. Well all along, I'm

grinning and bearing it and I'm just like watching my
life just become more depressed and stress. I mean, thank god,
thank god I still live in London and I didn't
let that happen. I mean, if like, I just take

the bront of all of it. Even when I was
coming to Hawaii, my mom was like, you're going back
to Hawaii. Um, this is so irresponsible of you. And
she's like texting me all this ship and she was like, um,
where are you staying? And I was like, I'm just
going to rent the same house again that I was
in two weeks ago because I'm not needed back in

l A until May six. And she goes, this is
just so like you glow blah law and she was like,
I don't know how I'm going to tell dad, and
I was like, tell Dad, what, like this is my money?
There does seem to be because why after me, you're
thirty two, aren't you three? Last? Happy birthday? Happy birthday?

Thank you? I don't. I don't know if that keeps
coming back to me is that there's a lot of
control by others being placed onto you. And I think
I hear what you say when you're saying you're you
feel free. And I don't know if it's because look,
I want you to work it out with Spencer and
Heidi and your parents of course, but I do understand

that I think you feel free from the control. I've
been thinking about the I'm thinking about this a good bit. Uh.
Your your parents can't control your brother, that's obvious. I
mean he went and got he enveloped without them. You know,
he's he's kind of doing whatever you want. And he

has his own kid now too, he's got his own family. Yeah.
They really, they've never had any control over him. The
only one that they had had control over is you. Um,
And I think the reason why it feels so liberating
is you've just done what your brother did years ago,
which is you've just separated yourself and you've you've you know,
you've you've torn the umbilical cord um, and that's why

you're feeling that way. I think so too. What would
be interesting I wish you had a relationship with your
parents right now where you still are doing what you're doing,
owning that independence, making your own decisions and being proud
of them. And if you had that strength, I wonder

if the relationship could be improved where they would respect
those decisions. I just hope that your parents listen to
this episode because if I'm not a parent, well I
have a dog, so kind of a parent. But if
if my dog Carl came in year and said this
about me, I would be heartbroken. Oh I didn't know
you felt this way, or you're right, and how can

I fix this? This is terrible? Um. I think that
my impression is they love her so much, they're holding
so tight and maybe from your past. I was starting
to think about this too, and Wells has I want
Wells this week to read your book because you do
go into some of this. I think some of the
struggles that Steph had as a teenager, maybe her parents

are so affraid got the books. So maybe they're so
afraid from some of the pain she experienced as a teenager,
that that is why they control and hold on so
tight because they don't want her to go through that
again and to do what Spencer did, which has completely
cut them out of his life for three years or whatever.

I think some of it does come from love. But me, oh,
my parents, all of you. I think I in some
of why they hold so tight is because they love
you so much. But they see me in hospitals, you know,

every most of the really bad times where I end
up in a hospital is something triggered vice Spenser, like,
my parents, like they see that the suffering is it's
because it's turned into you know, full depression. Yeah, the

therapist didn't want us to talk about that too and
acknowledge that that have you been diagnosed with depression and
making sure that you're taking care of you. What did
she say, She said it was she did say this
was good. Yeah, she well, she said, I don't know
if she's actually diagnosed as bipolar because you mentioned that

in the last episode, and she she said, if you were,
or then that needs to be something that you guys
need to be talking like you and your therapists need
to be talking about a lot. And then she also
said that what I she said that this is her
speaking what I think would be really important that everyone
in your family get together for family therapy. I'm not
sure if that will ever happen. List, Yeah, do you
know how long my prapos isn't saying that? What it's impossible? Well? Yeah,

is how do we help take care of you? Because
this is serious? Like I understand it's also a show,
and and there's some parts that are gonna be funny
and light and all that, but like, this is serious,
and I don't think you're alone in what you're feeling.
I think a lot of people listening understand. And that's
why they gave you so much support, because they've been

there too. Families are hard. Why do you why do
you think they your parents enable your brother or dote
on him. I have no idea that they would just
be in denial, like they're in denial of what happened

in Paris, Like they just everything. They're in denial. I
was doing it too. We switched from being in denial
hopeful that it's going to change, and then to just resentment,
like it's just always feelings that are moving but not
I mean hopeful. It is a good feeling, but then

then the disappointment comes and that's that's hard, Like I
just don't this wouldn't have come to this. Literally, if
Heid he just played it cool, Like don't go into

a bathroom and I'm standing in and scoal at me.
Don't show up out a photo shoot and not say
a word to me and then I say, you know, hey,
cute out it and she looks me up and down
and walks away, you know, or like giving like I
said last week, the two girls next to me, Winning
Andrena on both sides giving them champagne and just blanking me,

Like if she is she could has just been nice,
you know, I mean for again. For Christmas, Princess Heidi,
I was unpacking at my parents house. I don't know
why I had luggage there, but anyways, my mom had

gotten me this really cute Christmas sweater and I think
it was like from t J Max. It was like
really soft and silly and cute and had the tags
on it. My mom just like walked by, dropped it
on my suitcase of sitting on the floor, and she's like,
got this for you, Heidi, walks in and she goes,
oh my god, what a cute sweater? Who got this?

Who's at four? And immediately, even though I wanted it,
I said, it's for you. My mom went out and
got it for you. So like what, So why did
I even lie and say my mom went out and
got it specifically for you? Because I wanted her to
feel loved and a part of this family. Did I
want that sweater? Of course I did, And the first

thing I do I handed over to her, Like it's
just I've done so much to try to keep it together,
but she's just such a that I just it's not
worth it. And my parents are coming down on me,
like you guys, you guys have made me bottled this

up for so long, but it is just the only
thing that really gets me really anxious, is is like
overwhelming feeling that nothing that I've torn apart my family

that I have, you know, dropped this bomb and I'm
never going to be at another Christmas. You know. That's
what I keep thinking about, is what I'm gonna do
for Christmas to my house? I know mine too, I
feel like, but I also have in my gut that

this could could be repaired. I just don't know if
I can forgive my merits, and I just don't see
them changing. None of them have changed. None of them,
I think one of the things. And we don't have
to get into it today, but maybe next episode is
starting to help you heal because I think that at

this point of course, I hope it all works out,
but I think that there are things that Steph can
start to do to feel better, to find some peace.
You know. Well, that's why I came me here because
we all live. You know. I'm eight blocks wait for
my parents, five minutes way from Spencer, So that's why

I came here. Because I've got like this month off
for until I have to work again. And I was like,
there's no way I can be in the palisades just like,
you know, am I going to run into them when
I go to cathe Vita or when I'm walking my dog?
Like it's it was too scary? So yeah, what about
go back to l A. Well yeah, and what about

I mean, soon you're gonna have to start doing all
the press for the Hills, and I assume you guys
will do things together. Yeah, how is that interaction going
to go down? I don't know I've been worrying about
the press too or two. I almost just don't even
want to go, like going back to London. No, no, no,
because you need to do all this for you, and

there is a chance as you get stronger that you
could he and the relationship could heal in some ways,
even if you just I do believe there's a way
to sort of have like a teflon shield where you're
able to have a relationship to a certain extent. Maybe
not what it was, just it was cool, but maybe
she will be. Yeah. But I also like not going

that this is a battle. But if you don't go
to these press tours or go to the rap party
or whatever, then that just shows that you've lost. You
can't let them, you can't give them that, you know.
But how but I feel like it'd be winning my
I am free from it. Like, but what if you
just know you are it's all in your own mind
to know I am a good person, I'm doing the

best I can. I'm okay no matter what happens around you,
just know that you are. No. I feel so much
stronger and independent and lighter. But it's going to take time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

I'll take time. What did is the evolution as at
the Prussian Company? What what did they say to you
after all of this broke? Were they upset? Where they sorry?
What was their thoughts? I didn't really get any text

because I assume that they would be like, damn, I
wish we had that on camera. Um, well they have
camera and that was the straw that broke the Campbell's back.
It's gonna be quite a season of the Hill. It's
coming out June. Do you think your parents will watch it?

That's the good question. Um, I think they will, at
least my mom will. I wonder if that will change
their perception of things. No, there's a now there's a
grandson involved. Nothing is going to change. They want to

see that grandson. Let's I get it. I didn't feel terrible.
I feel like we need to, like next episode, work
on things to strengthen you. Uh, we'rek on things to
kind of like quell your anxiety about all this. Um.
And I also think that true closure doesn't come until

you present yourself as the bigger woman and figuring out
on the next step. Listen, they can cut you out
of their lives or whatever, but at some point I
think that someone is going to need to uh extend
in alive branch, and I think it would be it
would be really great if that was you. It's gonna
take time, but I think that would be a really

cool way even no matter what happens. I think even
you guys, I can't anymore what led to me having
not being able to go back to Paris and not
almost not going back to that, Like I can't say

those things we get there is a lot of damage
in there. There's so like there's no way, but I'm
going to have an olive branch, like I don't want
to see those people ever again, Like this has gone
on for so long, fight makeup, fight, makeup. Truth is

is they hate me because I became friends with Lauren,
and that it is will always be the reason that
that's how you never feel that and it might be
something to address your you your speculation told me that
they have told me that this is and I feel

my experience that that's that's completely legit because they thought
as unloyal. But again, it's just like I'm going to
be friends with who I think are good people. This
does bring up what they addressed on their show, which
when when we will have wells read it, but I
they acknowledge Whitney for some reason. Um, they do appear

to be mad at Whitney. I called Whitney the next
day after that party and I was just like, are
you okay? And she was like, I was just like
really shaken up. I can't say more, but we need
to do anything. So I don't know. That's crazy that

they're talking about her, Okay. So I guess I'm trying
to kind of understand this and paint the picture of
my head. There's a lot of you can't say because
you guys filmed it, and what really really went down
that has the straw that broke the camel's back is
going to be on the show? Is that what you're saying? Okay?
So I think there's also some damage that's so far
in the past that is bubbling up for staff. I believe.

I can't believe that if I hadn't we went in London,
I would have exploded along. I think she's bottled up stuff.
Whether it's it's her perspective now. I can't say if
it's accurate because there's always eight sides of the every story.
But what I'm interpreting is that there is so much
history and pain bubbling up that it's it's all coming

out now. Yeah, alright, well, next episode, I want to
go through the transcript, whether you're on on the call
or not, I want to go through the transcript of
Make Spidy Famous Gangside. I want to there's you know,
we started the show off with there are three truths
to every story, and we've got one truth. I want
to hear what their perception of the whole thing is,

just if nothing else, just to be fair, but I
just want to try to under stand where they're coming from.
You do feel that Heidi is hurting. I definitely feel
that Heidi is hurting as well. Everyone of his family
is broken. And you guys are I'm sorry, like birthday, birthday,
but you guys are right. It's it's like, I'm sorry,

like this is a really you're crawling on this show,
and I it's this. Doing this podcast is heartbreaking to
me and for everyone in this room too, and and
I wish there was something we could do to fix it.
I don't. I don't know if there is, but it
has to be. I think there has to be. I
got out of it. I walked out of it I fixed,

and that maybe that maybe the answer is that that
maybe the answer we just don't know yet, and time
will tell as we go through this journey together. You're
just beginning the healing process. The wound is just like
super open right now, and it's you haven't even had

time to let it start to heal. And I think
this show is going to be cathartic for you. Um.
I hope it's a thought for your fans, like your
parents to I hope they listened to it and at
least hear you what you're saying, regardless of I know
that me saying that kind of pissing you off because
you're like, I don't even care. But I come from
a big family and it's a family is important to me,
So I would at least hope that they are hearing

some of this. They hate me, don't they try understand.
They don't understand it. I've expose everything. This is gonna
cause fights between my parents, It's gonna cause fights with
my brother, with my I mean, I I literally dropped
the ball and flew to Hawaii. But it was either

going to Hawaii like to chill out by myself, or
I was like going to go to a treatment center
for like drama, even though I went to one last year.
Let's trying Hawaii and some therapy first. Let's try doing
right now. I have calls and play therapists from here.
I'm just doing it once a week and some meditation

and all those things. But I just had to get
it out of l A like it's just so tarctic
for me. We'll keep us on speed dial and we're
going to text you after this and then we're going
to talk again next episode. Also, please remember that no
matter how you're feeling with your family life, that we
love you so much and everyone's here for you. And

just pay attention to all that support you're getting, you know,
from everyone, including your friends and everybody. Thanks you, guys. Well,
hell's yeah. Next week we have a comedian on or someone.
I can't wait to have Whitney on. She's coming on. Yes,

Whitney will be on with us, which I'm not not
till the show starts in June. But I adore her,
so that's the thing. Yeah, she's amazing. So all right,
go to a lou or something. I don't know. I
eat some um, what are those nuts they eat over there? Nuts? Yeah,

we're talking about coconuts some point I don't know. Go
find go find a pig that's been buried in the
sand that has been roasting for like fourteen hours. Stephanie. Yeah,
I think I want to jump in the pool. That
sounds good. Alright, Steph. We love you so much of you.
We'll text you later. I love you guys, Thank you.

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