Colin Cowherd joins the show to react live after the Indiana Pacers go up 2-1 in the NBA Finals vs. the Oklahoma City Thunder with a Game 3 win. They discuss the highlights including Tyrese Haliburton’s impressive bounce back game to beat Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. They also discuss the New York Knicks coaching search and the latest on where Kevin Durant will end up this offseason.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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co slash audio. Welcome to hop tonight here at the volume.
(02:01):
Happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope all of you guys are
having a great week well. Coming into the series, we
were hopeful that things would be competitive, that they'd be interesting,
And here we are after three games of the NBA
Finals and the Pacers are up to one two games
away from potentially stealing what would be one of the
craziest NBA championships that I've seen in my time cover
(02:22):
in the NBA. I can think of nobody better to
break this down with then Colin Cowhard, who has been
kind enough to give us his time tonight and join
the show. Colin, where is your head at? After three
games of the NBA Finals?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, yeah, the Pacers, you know, and you and I
had talked about this. The Celtics this year were better
on the road than at home. Denver is the same team.
Oklahoma City is not the same team on the road.
They're not there bench players. Their rotational players are young.
(02:54):
That's the downside the youth. They are not the same
team on the road. They're very vulnerable. Tonight they had
nineteen turnovers. They got really sloppy. I didn't think Sga
ever got into a great rhythm. He did a great
job coaching and prodding and poking his team. But my
takeaway is like tonight was a game that you know,
(03:14):
in football, there's the old thing about you can steal
yards and field position, and over the course of a
game you get better field position. I thought the Pacers
between steals blocks they had eleven between offensive rebounds. Stole
about eight to ten points tonight, just sneaky points, you know,
(03:35):
like one of them is McConnell on the inbounds. I
think from Caruso feels at point that's a huge, huge play,
especially when you're the home team in the crowded erupts.
And I just thought, over the course of a game,
just eight four or five baskets either denied or provided
sneaky points. And that's kind of the difference in the game.
(03:57):
It was just I mean that game until the last
three minutes, I didn't know who was gonna win it.
It was just a very tight game. And I think
they deserve a lot of credit. I mean Indiana's bench, Jesus,
I mean that again, bench at home, bench on the road. Matherin,
who starts sometimes for them, Who's that reminds me a
(04:17):
little bit of a little Westbrook, you know. He Westbrook
was hyper athletic. Matherin was a quarterback and a hockey
player in Canada. Goes to Arizona, as you know, crushes it.
Super athletic, but not as out of control as Westbrook.
Like he's gonna be a He's gonna be a great
player in this League. But I guess that's my The
Pacers just a lot of blocks and steals and effort
(04:40):
points and that's the ballgame.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, you know, I had my eye on Matherin and
McConnell in particular off of the Pacers bench coming into
this series, not because I'm an Arizona fan, although obviously
it's been awesome watching those guys just kill it. I mean,
twenty eight points in an NBA Finals game. That is
like a real ether in the cat for a young
basketball player. And honestly, like when you I've had a
lot of male back questions and things like that from
(05:06):
fans over the course of the last couple of weeks
who've been asking, like, what's the next step for the Pacers,
Like where's their next leap? And it's that kid, it's him,
it's him becoming by age twenty five to twenty six,
an All Star level guard.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, and you know I said this, and I don't
know if you and I talked about this. Oklahoma City's
got more depth, but there's this sense that, Okay, Oklahoma
City's talents here in Indiana's is below and I'm like,
I don't I don't really buy that. I think I
think McConnell. I think TJ. McConnell's a really, really good
basketball player. I think Matherin, who started some games for
(05:40):
them this year. He started, he was like their third
or fourth leading scorer. He's exploding. I mean, we all
know that Siakam and Halle are great. Miles Turner's defense
in the second half was unbelievable. Like, I don't think
the gap in talent, especially when you go back home,
I don't think it's that. I mean Obi Toppin his
(06:00):
put them up by seven and then he got a
block on the other end. Like, I think the talent
disparity here is inches, not feet. I think Indiana's got
a real team and they and they have a lot
of different players. I mean Obi Toppins hyper athletic, Miles
Turner's a rim protector, Say Ockham's got a pretty touch.
Halle's more assist than scoring, but can do both. Nie
(06:22):
Smith can hit threes. McConnell's the spark plug, Matherin's the
young emerging, hyper athletic guy. I mean, they got a
lot of levers to pull. So I watched this. It's
just fun watching this series, and I'm like, at the
end of the game. I'm like, is he Indian? They
have more good players? I mean, they just pulled a
(06:42):
lot of levers tonight.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I do think they're better down the roster in terms
of just the level of like consistency they get from
all of their supporting players get There's like I'm watching
the end of the second quarter, like Ben Shephard's out
there and matherin and uh McConnell, and I'm sitting there
and I'm like, this is Carlisle riding his bench in
like what is typically a starting group session. I think
(07:06):
where you see the talent gap between okay See and
Indiana is like just that like top end shot creation,
like when things really bogged down and both defenses are
locked in, Shay is just so much better at like
getting to his spots and finding those like shots that
he can make. I think I do think that Oklahoma
City at their best, their ceiling is higher than Indiana's,
(07:26):
like when they're moving the ball well and they're knocking
down shots. And for the record, like if you're in
a matchup like this where you're a substantial underdog, you're
trying to create variants, You're trying to create margin and
all the stuff you're talking about. I agree with you.
They won this game in the margins. They won this
game forcing turnovers, blocking shots at the rim, and ball
(07:47):
pressuring Shae Gildas Alexander so much that he looked exhausted
by the end of the game. And this is all
low hanging fruit in basketball that's available for basically everybody.
Anybody can pick up the ball full court, anybody can
be aggressive in rotation and play passing lanes. There's a
certain athletic minimum you need to have, but anybody's capable
of taking advantage of these margins. And to me, that's
(08:08):
been the story of the Pacers this entire postseason run
is they have been so good on the margins. They're
making it so that the the the their variance is
much lower than other teams because they're getting so much
of that low hanging fruit every single game.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So Oklahoma City is two and four on the road
in the last three playoff rounds. So we have found
the hole. You know, every boxer, every baseball player, even
Barry Bonds when he was on cattle steroids, there's there's
a there's a there's part of the strikestone he can't hit.
Usually for a batter. It's on the hands and we're
looking for where's the hole in Oklahoma City's game and
(08:43):
it's this young team on the road. There is a
great variance what you get at home and what you
get on the road, and we found it. And Indiana
is a tremendously good home team. It just it's it's
I gotta tell you, Miles Turner doesn't get a lot
of love. You know, his asthetic, he'll hit the corner
(09:05):
of three. But that dude in the second half. I mean,
Homegrown was great early, but Miles Turner is one of
those guys that in the league, everybody knows about Miles Turner.
I mean, if he's on the market, Lakers included, there'll
be multiple Sooners for Miles Turner. Everybody in the league
gets it. But on this team, you know, like tonight,
(09:26):
we're watching McConnell and 'ren Halliburt and we're always watching Siakam.
I thought, I thought in the second half, I thought
Myles Turner was huge.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I agree he he The specific dynamic he struggled with
a little bit in this series is Carlisle has him
coming way out to the perimeter to show at the
level of these ball screens and the thunderguards are just
so fast that he's had some trouble containing him there.
But in that second in that second half, it was
almost like he found his second win to where he
was moving a little better so he wasn't losing contain
(09:54):
as much. Carlile had him start to be more aggressive
and attack the ball in more of like a blitz two,
which he forced a couple turnovers that way, and then
at the rim, like Miles, Turner has always been one
of the best like shot blockers in the league. He
always racks up high shot block totals and got Chet
at the rim that closed out. He's got crazy length
that close out on the three point shot from Chet
late that was a big one. The stuff with Mattherin
(10:16):
and McConnell I find really fascinating. The reason why I
was keyed in on them to start the series is
when you're playing these young, super athletic teams like Oklahoma City,
the guys that become super important are your athletes, the
guys that have like some sort of physical trait that's
tough to match up with. TJ McConnell is unassuming, but
he is actually one of the very best guards in
(10:37):
the NBA beating people off the dribble. So he's immensely
valuable in this matchup because he can get that first
bit of dribble penetration that breaks down Oklahoma City's defense.
And he's such a good staunch athlete, like in terms
of like his but being a fire hydrant, low center
of gravity guy. He can pressure the ball and pick
up full court. He had three steals on baseline inbounds
(10:57):
in this game. Those were huge sequences in this game.
And then Ben matherin same sort of thing. He is
capable against a very athletic thunder team of getting to
his spots and rising up and knocking down shots because
he's a supreme athlete that can handle the ball. Nemhard
is a good ballhandler who's not a supreme athlete, and
Nie Smith is an elite athlete who's not a good
(11:19):
ball handler. TJ and Ben are both great athletes and
great ball handlers, and that's made them very valuable in
this matchup. And again, like Ben that like we're we
just saw a young player put up a massive twenty
eight point game in a in a must win NBA
Finals game like that is a huge moment for a
young player there, and like as far as like zooming
(11:39):
out and looking at the series, like I still lean
Oklahoma City. We have seen before teams like you know
the series. This actually reminds me a lot of is
Cleveland in twenty fifteen versus Golden State, where Golden State
is clearly the better team, but they're young and they're inexperienced,
and it's their first Finals appearance and they look a
little shook from the environment, and the Lebron goes up
(12:01):
to one on them. Now, obviously Indiana doesn't have the
Lebron element, but there was obviously way less talent down
the roster, but Indiana does have more veteran experience. They're
an older team, right, But what happens with Indiana here
is they're up to one, but Golden State was the
better team. They came in, won game four, then they
went home in won game five. Then they went back
to Cleveland and they won in game six. I am
(12:23):
going to give Indiana a good chance to win at
least one more home game, So I do think this
has a good chance to go seven. But I would
still make Oklahoma City the favorite at this point before
I kick it to you just so you know. The
Thunder are still from DraftKings minus two thirty to win
the series and the Thunder are minus six favorites in
game four. Where are you at in the series moving
(12:44):
forward at this point?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Well, I you know, Game seven's in Oklahoma City and
they're really good at home. And again, bench guys rotational
guys are different players at home. I mean the Indiana's
bench in the second quarters night was insane. I mean
it was literally, I mean I think Carlisle was shook.
It was just like, wow, that's one of their best
quarters of the playoffs. I think, like I one of
(13:11):
the things that was a little surprising to me, I
thought Oklahoma City looked tired in the fourth and now
now the first half it was sixty four sixty. I
think the pace was in it would totally Indiana's pace.
It slowed down as games can is that situationally as
the possessions get very, very big. But you noticed it too.
(13:31):
I thought, okay, see looked a little gas in the fourth.
They had a bad fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, so that's the advantage of ball pressure. Like there's
been a lot of talk about the coverages I have
had my concerns with how they've used Turner because I
think Turner is a very good shot blocker, so I
want him at the rim. I don't think he's particularly fast,
so I don't want him on the perimeter, so like
I've wanted him sitting further back. But a lot of
the full court ball pressure stuff has also had some
downsides in that. One of the things Oklahoma City will
(13:57):
do is they'll have Hartenstein come out or check come out,
and they'll screen like almost at half court while SHA's
battling the ball pressure, and then he gets ahead of
steam from like sixty feet away from the rim, and
he got a lot of layups early in the game
out of stuff like that. And so there's a downside
to ball pressure in that you can beat ball pressure
and get dribble penetration. The upside with ball pressure is
(14:19):
in the big picture, which is for forty eight minutes
in front of that crazy home crowd, when you're facing
Nie Smith and Matherin and Themhart and all these guys
just in your jersey the entire game down the stretch,
you just don't have the legs because beating that ball
pressure just takes it out of your legs, and so
there's no doubt that like Indiana played the long game
tonight in Oklahoma City controlled at various points, but down
(14:42):
the stretch, Shay had his hands on his knees. He
was trying to grift a little bit more down the stretch,
looking for foul calls. Like you can tell he was tired.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You know the other thing that you know, this is
just something you don't talk about a lot. We don't,
analysts don't. But I remember talking to Mark Warkin team
I covered him at UNLB with Jerry Tarkany, and he
was an executive in the league, and he used to
always say the most underappreciated part of those great Michael
(15:10):
Jordan Bulls teams was their length. He was like Rodman
was long, Pippin was wrong, Luke Longley was long, everybody.
But Steve Kerr was long like Ron Harper, and he
was just like they just got their hand on the balls.
Indiana is long, when Poppin' Sayakam Turner, Halliburton's long there tonight,
(15:31):
just to show you their length. Okase had four blocks,
Indiana had eleven. Okayse had six deals, Indiana had thirteen.
How many balls? How many times? In this game. Did
you see the ball loose around the free throw line
and it was just a pacer that got their hand
on it, and keep when there are certain TJ. McConnell's
(15:55):
obviously not long, but he's feisty and quick, so he
gets his hand and he's fast. But dude, when they've
got Turner and Halliburton and Poppin, that is the length
of the Pacers, and I thought it really frustrated. OKC
chat Holmgren had multiple shots blocked, So we don't talk
a lot about that. Rebounding is a lot of things
(16:16):
beyond late, but length gives you those extra possessions and
touches and disruptions. Blocks and steals tonight, I mean, are
just totally one sided. And I think again that's stealing points,
which I thought the Pacers did.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, Like there was a play where Jadub got a
clean corner catch out of the left corner. You might
remember this one in the in the first half and
or no, it was in the it was in the
second half. It was in the early part of the
second half, and Jadub drove Basine had a dunk, but
Tyreee came over and Tyreese has long arms, like Tyrese
has got length to your point, and he's the longest
(16:52):
point guard in the league. Yeah, and he's got reasonable
vertical athleticism too. So he got up and he contested
Jadub and Jadab missed the dunk. He missed the dunk.
And there there have been a few plays in this series,
like I actually think Halliburton has been a very good
defensive player in this entire playoff run. Like he's been sneaky,
really good because he's the thing within this is to
Carlisle's credit, everyone's committed to doing the job. And then
(17:14):
ty Reese like plays hard, like he's got his limitations.
He's not very big and strong and it kind of
looks like a a chicken run around his head cut
off sometimes on defense, but like he's got the length
to be impactful in that in that situation. And yeah,
like there was a there was a stretch there late
in the game where Carlisle rides top in for that
exact reason, like him being able to go over the
top of Oklahoma City on offense or meet somebody at
(17:36):
the summit at the rim on the other end, Like
those were that those have been huge parts of Indiana
success throughout this entire postseason run. And again, like you
want to know how you play passing lanes with length,
because all of a sudden it looks open, the passer
makes the read and it's not open because you have
the ability to close that ground. The one thing I
will say, and this is one of the reasons why
(17:56):
I still lean towards Oklahoma City to win the series,
there was a stretch in the third quarter where I
thought Oklahoma City really leveraged their athleticism.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, they're a good third quarter team too. They've done
this in the playoffs multiple times.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yes, And like going back, even I thought Game two
felt like the entire night felt like that. I don't
think Indiana can beat Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City in
a must win game because I think they can leverage
their defense and physicality and overall athleticism to the point
that's like almost too much for them to overcome. So
(18:31):
I think Indiana's pathway is they have to win the
two home games. They absolutely can. For the record, I'm
not saying Oklahoma City is like the surefire going to
still win the series. I lean towards Oklahoma City, but
Indiana I think has to win on Friday, and I
think they have to win next week on Thursday. I
think that's their path.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well, in the first six minutes of the game, Oklahoma
City was very disruptive. The Pacers were frustrated, the starters,
they just weren't getting good looks. So I mean Oklahoma
when they weren't gassed late and they're disruptive, there's no
getting around it. They're just fast and long and it's
almost collegiate like we've talked about. It doesn't look like
(19:10):
other defenses. So you know, I just don't want to
fall for this because I fell for it with Denver
and Boston, and I'm like, oh, these are going to
be dynasties and there are holes in Oklahoma City. I mean,
they'll probably lose Jalen Williams. Eventually, they can't pay everybody,
and they're going to pay home Grin because he's just
you know, he's just physically a different There's not a
lot of him out there. They're gonna pay SGA and
(19:33):
you know how it works now you can't pay three guys.
You know, Boston's going to go through this. So I
mean it's I know a lot of people look at
Oklahoma City and think, oh boy, this is going to
be something that they're going to be bad for the league.
It My take is this series is great. I mean,
we have two of the games in this series have
been all timers. And I also think I think Indiana
(19:55):
is a real team. I mean, I'm watching matherin tonight
and I again, I think he's got a little bit
of Westbrook, but he's not out of control. He's he's
a little bit more refined at this age. He was
a better college player than Westbrook. Again, more defined, and
I think he was the pac twelve player of the
year if I recall when he like, yeah, he was
a great player. But my takeaway I watched him and
(20:16):
I'm like, oh, they're gonna be good. Halliburton and him
and McConnell and and sayah, come, it's like Indiana's going
nowhere this I I don't know. I I said this
going back to the Cleveland series. I love watching the
Pacers play. I love their style, I love their I
love Halliburton. I just there's just there's something about a team.
(20:40):
There's a joy when Indiana plays. They are having a
really good time, and I think it just comes to
the TV.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Agree Like I I understand some of the the the
negativity surrounding the Finals in the sense that like it
lacks some of that juice for you know, especially for
casual yeah Game two, huge names, yeah yeah, and Game
two is super boring, like and it like, and it
obviously has not been hitting great TV ratings. But there
is a natural ebb and flow with the cycle of
(21:10):
the NBA as stars age in and out, and we're
definitely in one of those roles right now. But I
do think that the Pacers are providing an excellent showcase
for another up and coming team in the Eastern Conference.
And by the way, the East is pretty wide open,
Like you could argue Indy has every bit as good
a chance to make it back to the Finals next
year as Oklahoma City does with how open things are
in the Eastern Conference, right. I love the point you
(21:31):
made about Olahoma City, like it will get tougher, Like
I think Oklahoma City needs to get this one, because
the reality is is that once you start it to
your point, if you pay all three of those guys
max maxes, and by the way, they're not gonna be
regular maxes, these are gonna be all NBA players. They're
gonna be super maxis, you know, Like, and so once
you pay all those guys, they're gonna basically have to
surround them with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts.
Like I think they're gonna end up using all these
(21:52):
draft pick draft picks. They have to just cycle role
players through and they're gonna be hunting like three four
year college guys that play for major programs Kansas and
Villanova that they can trust to come in and play
role player basketball in the end. That's what I think
that they're gonna end up. That's what I think Sam
Price's gonna end up doing, And so their margin will
get smaller because they won't be surrounded by as much talent.
This is a particularly important series for them to win.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
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Speaker 2 (22:49):
I wanted to move on to the Knicks. So I
see this support this morning, and it's from Sham's talking
about how they're just calling up around all these big
shots coaches in the league, Jason Kidd email Udoka, Quinn Snyder,
Chris Finch. What do you make of this bizarre behavior
from the Knicks right now?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but James Dolan, who's
been in a band I'm not sure if he still is,
views himself as an artist and that's why he is.
His His greatest achievement is not the Knicks. I mean
he inherited the cable vision from his dad. Right, it's
the Sphere in Vegas, which is a remarkable Have you
(23:30):
been there? I think you have been there.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I've been there six times. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, So it's a remarkable musical engagement achievement all time
in the world, and that's really where his heart is.
Irving aves Off a former great promoter, now I think
he's MGM management. He is one of his closest friends.
He was, you know, he was a had a record label.
That's who. That's who James Dolan is. So when he
(23:55):
wants to get a GM, he goes after a star
Phil Jackson. Then he wanted Steve k and Amari Stodamire
on Bad Knees out of Phoenix, and Tibbs isn't his
kind of guy. So who does he go after? Jason Kidd,
who's a star. He's interested in Kevin Durant, who's a star.
That's who James Dolan is. He hangs around stars, he
(24:17):
loves stars. He's a creative. This is not a criticism,
but I think he listened to his players grumble. You know,
he sat down with his players and again he relates
to artists and athletes and stars. Just go look at
the history. And when he was doing the Spear for
two years, he was disengaged from the team, and they
got very patient and very pragmatic and very BASKETBALLI and
(24:40):
very villanova ish and that's and that's Tibbs. And so
you get rid of Tibbs. It's not the same culture,
it's not the same team. You still have the Villanova guys,
but it won't feel the same. So it just it
just feels like James, and I don't. I almost, you know,
he reminds me a little bit of Jim and that
(25:01):
Ersay would rather sit with his guitar and hang out
with Dylan outside of football more than anything else. And
I think James Dolan's a little bit of that. And
I think he's an emotional guy. He's an artist. He
relates to artists and he listens to his stars. And
he didn't have a plan, and I think it's a big,
(25:21):
big mistake. This, by the way, this is what every
Nick fan dreaded, is that when he came back from
the sphere he would get hands on And there are
various reports on who has their fingerprints on this, but
they're not getting rid of TIBs. He just signed a
new deal without Dolan, you know, acquiescing to a suggestion
(25:45):
or making the move himself. So in the end, this
is what the Knicks man. This league's crazy owners in
the NFL and the NBA. You know that all owners
now Jason are billionaires. It was ten years ago they weren't.
They made they were worth six hundred million or eight
hundred million. They wouldn't blow out staffs, They didn't want
(26:06):
to write a forty six million dollar check. That is
a rounding air. And now of these owners and they're all.
I see it in the NFL all the time, guys
will just blow out staffs. David Tepper write a sixty
eighty million dollar check. The owners didn't want to do
that eight ten, twelve years ago. They do now, So
I don't know who they're gonna land. They they I mean,
(26:26):
they've been turned out by seven coaches, all the good ones,
Finch and Emoduka and Jason Kidd, and they're just getting
turned down by everybody.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, matt Ishbia blew out his staff twice within two
years of owning the team.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Is it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I uh, you know, it's it's fascinating because, like I
tried to look at it in a very open minded way,
because like I actually do think Jason Kid's a better
coach now than he gets credit for a couple of
years ago. I wasn't super high on him, but he,
just like anybody else, as a competitor, has been doing
it for a while now and he's gotten pretty good
at it. Like I was looking at the Knicks for
a second, like I agree with you in terms of
(27:01):
the kind of topsy turvy unstable nature with which you
look and you portray to people when you fire your
coach in a situation like this. But I also think
Tibbs left some meat on the bone with this next team.
I thought they underachieved all season, Like right out the gates,
they underachieved.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
He's not a creative offensively, He's not. The team got
very predictable offensively.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I thought the major issue with this team schematically was spacing,
and it actually impacted both ends of the floor. On offense,
the meant what you're mentioning in terms of creative offense,
like his what he did on offense in terms of
his creativity. The spacing for this team was extremely poor,
which made life very difficult, but it had a trickle
down effect in the sense that poor spacing also affects
your transition defense, Like if you don't have your guys
(27:43):
situated in proper spaces on the floor, then on missus
and turnovers, you don't have guys in position to be
back in transition defense. And the Pacers annihilated them in
transition in worse than ever in Game six, like embarrassing fashion.
In Game six is Siakam and everyone else was just
getting run out lay up after runout dunk after runout layups.
So like I did think there was like a defensible
(28:05):
case to move on from TIBs to more of a tactician.
I actually see Jason Kidd is a solid option in
the sense that he was a master of modern four
out spacing with Luca when he was there, which actually
I think is a really natural fit with Brunson, and
Brunson co played for Kid before, so there's like some
natural stuff there. And then he did a good job
(28:26):
with transition defense with the MAVs despite them not being
super athletics, so I'd give him credit for that. That
would work. The thing there is it's just unrealistic, and
if I'm Jason Kidd, why would like I don't actually
see the Knicks as that grade of a job, like
insane New York pressure. The roster is really good, but
it's not amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And hell, by the way, Mikhale Bridges wants a new contract.
OG's getting paid, Brunson's getting paid like the Mitchell Robinson.
These guys are getting paid like that. Dallas think Lively's
not getting paid, Cooper Flag won't get paid. I don't
know of Max Christy doesn't cost much. AD's getting paid,
but you get twenty four and eleven. Like I look
(29:07):
at Dallas and I'm like, I get excellence when they're healthy,
and I get an incredible top end with Lively and Flagg.
I know what the Knicks are and there's a ceiling
and I see it all the time.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, exactly, Like I don't see it as being the
kind of job that Jason Kidd would be willing to
basically sabotage his situation and force his way there. And
then like the other names I saw, I didn't even
particularly like ima Udoka is a motivator, that's like his
primary role. I don't think that's a specific need for
the Knicks. Like I think the specific thing that Nick's
need is just someone to come in and take them
(29:44):
to the next level in terms of their offensive organization
and their spacing, which will lead to them having a
bunch of additional benefits and transition defense. I understand there's
a hesitancy to call a guy like Mike Malone, and
the reason why is because he has a reputation for
being a hard ass and Tibbs was kind of a
hard and like, I don't think they want to go
down that route again. But there's like hard ass and
(30:05):
then there's TIBs, Like Mike Malone leaned on his starters
big minutes, but still not even close to what Tibbs did.
And one of the things I'll say about Mike Malone,
he was an excellent defense and spacing coach. He made
a championship defense out of non championship defensive talent, and
they were always consistently one of the best floor spacing
(30:25):
teams in the league. And they were very good. And
again we can we got to at least Acknowledge. Jokis
was there, so k makes it a lot easier obviously,
but he specifically was very good at making spacing opportunities
out of non spacers, guys like Aaron Gordon, guys like
Christian Brown, guys like Bruce Brown over the years, guys
like uh Russell Westbrook. Even so like fitting a guy
like Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, some of these non shooting
(30:48):
types of players, even mckail Bridges, who has struggled a
lot as a shooter in this postseason run. Like, I
actually think Mike Malone is a really good fit for
this NIXT team. I think He's a completely reasonable option
that doesn't involve you doing something insane like Paul around
the league. Because here's what gets crazy. Let's say you
call the MAVs and they're like, okay, sure, let's talk
about Jason Kidd. What are you going to offer us?
We already acknowledged this is not a championship roster, So
(31:09):
you're going to give up assets for a coach. You
need players, You need talent in there, so like it's
specifically defensive talent your front court. So I don't really
understand what the endgame is here.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, I just I am on the short list of
people that think Dallas is going to be really good,
really fast. I think Flag and Lively are you know,
they're duke guys. They're gonna be quick learners. They play
at the highest level of competition Collegiately. I think One's
going to be One's twenty one or twenty two. He's
going to be a rim protector for the next decade.
(31:39):
So Cooper Flag can be out in transition, won't have
to worry about being down low and getting jammed up,
which has always been what Lebron loves. He doesn't want
to be messed up. In that junk. He wants to
you know, he wants that ball out and up the court.
So h and I just you know, PJ. Washington, Christy.
If Kyrie comes back, I'm not sure what they're going
to do with him. I would forget the taxes, forget
(32:03):
everything else. I would not lead Dallas. I think Dallas
is a good job. The situation that's fascinating to me
is Houston because I think I think right now san
Antonio is about ready to pop. So I like san
Antonio and they could get you honest, and I think, Okay,
see as set and I think Houston's going to be
(32:25):
in that group of three young teams a little lost
because Jalen Green, I'm in, Thompson's excellent, Sanngoon's excellent, but
there's just a lot of athleticism that's not very good
in a half court game. And I think I think,
okay Se has popped, san Antonio is going to pop,
and I so I could if I'm if I'm a dooka,
(32:49):
I would consider the job. I think Houston's one of
those that, like the national media, we hover in, we
drop in, we go. Oh, I got Houston. I didn't
like what I Saw. I'll be honest, and I think
you can push them around. I don't think they have
a lot of half court possessions that are just sort
of lost. You don't get good looks. They look a
(33:11):
little disorganized eye. But Jason kid to me, the next
five years in Dallas are gonna be fascinating with just
this trajectory that goes through the roof.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
The roster is weird because it's kind of imbalanced in
the sense that they just have an absurd amount of
front court talent, like you crazy Lively Gafford, Anthony Davis, PJ. Washington,
and Cooper Flag, Like that's five starting caliber players that
all play the four or the five. So, like, I
do see an imbalance there, but there's an insane amount
(33:44):
of talent. And I actually go the other way there,
which is like they can afford to go into training
camp and just bring all these guys in and start
playing and basically look around the league and be like,
who's gonna throw us the Godfather offer for PJ. Washington,
for a Daniel gafferd Ford, Anthony Davis, Like you could
argue that Ad is going to be the target that
someone goes after, like because AD's hurt now, so he's
(34:05):
got that classic. Everyone's down on him. They think he's old,
they think he's beat up. Ad comes out of training
camp looking like he's in great shape, motivated, kicks everybody's
butt for a couple of months. He instantly becomes like
a dude you could flip for an enormous mountain of assets.
And so I look at Dallas as a very, very
healthy situation moving forward. It's not the same Luka Doncic
(34:25):
were right on the doorstep of the title, but they
do have a lot of big picture potential. So let's
talk about Kevin Durant. We got a report from Shams
today that Kevin Durant and his business partner Rich Clement
are kind of canvassing the league looking for potential opportunities.
The five names that were thrown out in the SHAMS
report for the Houston Rockets, San Antonio Spurs, the Miami Heat,
(34:50):
the Minnesota Timberwolves, and the New York Knicks. Did where
did your head go when you saw that report this morning?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Well, I think he works everywhere. I think there's very
few players that everywhere and KD is one of them.
He doesn't necessarily need to be the soul of the team.
He doesn't need the ball constantly in his hands. You
get great length a willing defender twenty four, twenty six.
I think KD fits everywhere. You know, if I was
(35:21):
KD i New York, I think he fits New York well.
But Brunson has the ball in his hands. I mean
in his mind, is he thinking Brunston's got some Westbrook
like dribble the air out of the ball. And I'm
sitting in the corner, like I could see him like
I've been through that. You know, Kyrie, who he played with,
(35:41):
also can be a little bit like that. So I
could see KD just saying, you know, because he's got
the leverage here, I could see him saying, I've kind
of done the ball centric guard thing. I just don't
want it again. Pat Riley and Spolster are very convincing people. Miami,
he's a great place to play, no state tax, It's
(36:02):
a winter league, a lot of warm weather. Like Miami's
a really attractive place out east. But I'm a KD fan.
I think he fits in a lot of places, and
Minnesota he obviously fits. And you know, we've talked about this,
like Lebron in his prime was great, but he had
to be the offensive ecosystem you had to Chris Bosh
had to reduce, you know, got marginalized. Kevin Love can
(36:25):
get marginalized. Guys get away from the rim, go you know,
Kyrie Irving, you can't have the ball that so Kevin
never provides that kind of obstacle, Like he just kind
of fits. So I can tell you this, if if, if,
if you were a GM and you talk to a
coach or players, a lot of guys would raise their
(36:48):
hands and say, get KD. Because I think he loves basketball.
He's a good teammates's got a good sense of humor.
He doesn't need to be the media darling. I think
he's really liked and respected in the league.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I heard him say agree, I've you know, I've loved
the point you made about his fit. Like he all
five of these teams the basketball makes a lot of sense.
There's one. The one team that I was like that
doesn't make as much of a sense in terms of
the basketball fit to me was the Spurs because it's like,
I don't love the idea of putting a super thin
front court player that likes the perimeter next to another
super thin front court player that likes the perimeter. I
(37:21):
wasn't a huge fan of that one. It also just
doesn't really fit San Antonio's timeline. So the Spurs one
was weird for me. The heat, I liked the fit.
I just don't know why KD would go there because
it just feels like another move to a team that's
not good enough to win the title. Like I'm just
not sure that, Like is is Kevin Durant, Tyler Harrow,
bam Adebayo? Is that enough to win the title? I don't.
(37:42):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
When I'm watching that kid, Benedict Mathern for Indy tonight,
I mean, I'm not trying to overreact here, but when
I'm watching him and I'm like, Jesus, he's just a kid,
like he's gonna you're gonna get this two out of
three games next year? Like this is this? I mean,
by the way, again, I think was Hei the third
leading scorer on the team or fourth leading scorer this year?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Like he I think coming into the coming into the series,
he was actually the highest per minute score for the
Pacers in this playoff run because I use in a
shorter role, but his like points per thirty six minutes
was the highest on the team.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Okay, So I watched him and I think, oh, he's
going to become a full time starter and it will
be Siakam, Halle and Mathern are their three leading scorers.
So I mean, I just I'm looking at the East
and I'm like, I think Indiana is going to take
a leap next year. You know they'll play with a
finals level confidence. So I just I don't think. I
(38:39):
just I and I'm not just saying this because they're
up two to one. I look at Indiana and I'm like, man,
that is a team with I mean outside of I
mean Sayakam, he is what he is. I feel like
seventy five percent of Indiana, all these players will be
(39:00):
better next year. I mean out Sakhams game is his game.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
They're better than they were last year.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
It's just like as I was just so impressed with
him tonight. So we can start talking about with Tatum
out next year. It's gonna run through Indy. We've gotta
be honest about this. It's gonna run through Indy. They
are deep, they're well coached, most of their players are ascending.
The East is running through Indy.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I agree, And I don't see the heat as
like an obvious like, Oh, he goes there and he's
all of a sudden the favorite in the Eastern Conference.
I like the Rockets fit. I think his skill set
is desperately needed as a guy who's a career that
can shoot from the perimeter. He also brings length at
the rim, which is not like the Rockets are a big,
strong team. They're not like a long arms team like
(39:49):
Jabari Smith Junior is like the one guy they have.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
The Rockets need him, Jason. I would argue the Rockets
need him more than any other team that he would
play for. They need him. They are a half court
offense lost a lot.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, and he would go in there and immediately vault
them into top tier championship contention. So that move makes
some sense. I will say, by far, out of these
five teams, my favorite fit is the Timberwolves. It's a
similar lack of redundancy in the sense that he brings
kind of like exactly what the team doesn't have, which
is a rock solid secondary ball handler next to Ant
who can really generate shots for his team. But they
(40:26):
can surround KD with elite super physical defense, which is
what he hasn't had in these other destinations. And also similarly,
Nasrid not super vertical, Julius Randall not super vertical, Rudy
Gobert is vertical, but like the Kevin Durant would be
a guy at the four spot, different from Kat last year,
different from Nas who brings real vertical length to the
(40:48):
table where you can imagine Jaden McDaniels, Kevin Durant and
Rudy Gobert on the floor together in that front line
and it's like all arms just everywhere, and it would
just be really, really difficult to handle. But it's gonna
be really interesting. Hopeful, I'm hopeful that we get a
pretty quick like a set of action here in late
June where we find out where all these guys land.
But Colin, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time. We'll
(41:10):
join us tonight. It was good to see you. Everyone
who's hanging out here on the YouTube's triom. We are
heading over to playback, so that's playback dot TV slash
hoops tonight. We're gonna be hanging out for an extra
hour here after the show, taking callers and stuff. Colin
was great to see you man.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Great to see you, buddy.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
What's up guys. As always, I appreciate you for listening
to and supporting OOPS tonight. It would actually be really
helpful for us if you guys would take a second
and leave a rating and a review. As always, I
appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take
a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
The volume
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
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co slash audio. Welcome to hop tonight here at the volume.
(02:01):
Happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope all of you guys are
having a great week well. Coming into the series, we
were hopeful that things would be competitive, that they'd be interesting,
And here we are after three games of the NBA
Finals and the Pacers are up to one two games
away from potentially stealing what would be one of the
craziest NBA championships that I've seen in my time cover
(02:22):
in the NBA. I can think of nobody better to
break this down with then Colin Cowhard, who has been
kind enough to give us his time tonight and join
the show. Colin, where is your head at? After three
games of the NBA Finals?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, yeah, the Pacers, you know, and you and I
had talked about this. The Celtics this year were better
on the road than at home. Denver is the same team.
Oklahoma City is not the same team on the road.
They're not there bench players. Their rotational players are young.
(02:54):
That's the downside the youth. They are not the same
team on the road. They're very vulnerable. Tonight they had
nineteen turnovers. They got really sloppy. I didn't think Sga
ever got into a great rhythm. He did a great
job coaching and prodding and poking his team. But my
takeaway is like tonight was a game that you know,
(03:14):
in football, there's the old thing about you can steal
yards and field position, and over the course of a
game you get better field position. I thought the Pacers
between steals blocks they had eleven between offensive rebounds. Stole
about eight to ten points tonight, just sneaky points, you know,
(03:35):
like one of them is McConnell on the inbounds. I
think from Caruso feels at point that's a huge, huge play,
especially when you're the home team in the crowded erupts.
And I just thought, over the course of a game,
just eight four or five baskets either denied or provided
sneaky points. And that's kind of the difference in the game.
(03:57):
It was just I mean that game until the last
three minutes, I didn't know who was gonna win it.
It was just a very tight game. And I think
they deserve a lot of credit. I mean Indiana's bench, Jesus,
I mean that again, bench at home, bench on the road. Matherin,
who starts sometimes for them, Who's that reminds me a
(04:17):
little bit of a little Westbrook, you know. He Westbrook
was hyper athletic. Matherin was a quarterback and a hockey
player in Canada. Goes to Arizona, as you know, crushes it.
Super athletic, but not as out of control as Westbrook.
Like he's gonna be a He's gonna be a great
player in this League. But I guess that's my The
Pacers just a lot of blocks and steals and effort
(04:40):
points and that's the ballgame.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, you know, I had my eye on Matherin and
McConnell in particular off of the Pacers bench coming into
this series, not because I'm an Arizona fan, although obviously
it's been awesome watching those guys just kill it. I mean,
twenty eight points in an NBA Finals game. That is
like a real ether in the cat for a young
basketball player. And honestly, like when you I've had a
lot of male back questions and things like that from
(05:06):
fans over the course of the last couple of weeks
who've been asking, like, what's the next step for the Pacers,
Like where's their next leap? And it's that kid, it's him,
it's him becoming by age twenty five to twenty six,
an All Star level guard.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, and you know I said this, and I don't
know if you and I talked about this. Oklahoma City's
got more depth, but there's this sense that, Okay, Oklahoma
City's talents here in Indiana's is below and I'm like,
I don't I don't really buy that. I think I
think McConnell. I think TJ. McConnell's a really, really good
basketball player. I think Matherin, who started some games for
(05:40):
them this year. He started, he was like their third
or fourth leading scorer. He's exploding. I mean, we all
know that Siakam and Halle are great. Miles Turner's defense
in the second half was unbelievable. Like, I don't think
the gap in talent, especially when you go back home,
I don't think it's that. I mean Obi Toppin his
(06:00):
put them up by seven and then he got a
block on the other end. Like, I think the talent
disparity here is inches, not feet. I think Indiana's got
a real team and they and they have a lot
of different players. I mean Obi Toppins hyper athletic, Miles
Turner's a rim protector, Say Ockham's got a pretty touch.
Halle's more assist than scoring, but can do both. Nie
(06:22):
Smith can hit threes. McConnell's the spark plug, Matherin's the
young emerging, hyper athletic guy. I mean, they got a
lot of levers to pull. So I watched this. It's
just fun watching this series, and I'm like, at the
end of the game. I'm like, is he Indian? They
have more good players? I mean, they just pulled a
(06:42):
lot of levers tonight.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I do think they're better down the roster in terms
of just the level of like consistency they get from
all of their supporting players get There's like I'm watching
the end of the second quarter, like Ben Shephard's out
there and matherin and uh McConnell, and I'm sitting there
and I'm like, this is Carlisle riding his bench in
like what is typically a starting group session. I think
(07:06):
where you see the talent gap between okay See and
Indiana is like just that like top end shot creation,
like when things really bogged down and both defenses are
locked in, Shay is just so much better at like
getting to his spots and finding those like shots that
he can make. I think I do think that Oklahoma
City at their best, their ceiling is higher than Indiana's,
(07:26):
like when they're moving the ball well and they're knocking
down shots. And for the record, like if you're in
a matchup like this where you're a substantial underdog, you're
trying to create variants, You're trying to create margin and
all the stuff you're talking about. I agree with you.
They won this game in the margins. They won this
game forcing turnovers, blocking shots at the rim, and ball
(07:47):
pressuring Shae Gildas Alexander so much that he looked exhausted
by the end of the game. And this is all
low hanging fruit in basketball that's available for basically everybody.
Anybody can pick up the ball full court, anybody can
be aggressive in rotation and play passing lanes. There's a
certain athletic minimum you need to have, but anybody's capable
of taking advantage of these margins. And to me, that's
(08:08):
been the story of the Pacers this entire postseason run
is they have been so good on the margins. They're
making it so that the the the their variance is
much lower than other teams because they're getting so much
of that low hanging fruit every single game.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So Oklahoma City is two and four on the road
in the last three playoff rounds. So we have found
the hole. You know, every boxer, every baseball player, even
Barry Bonds when he was on cattle steroids, there's there's
a there's a there's part of the strikestone he can't hit.
Usually for a batter. It's on the hands and we're
looking for where's the hole in Oklahoma City's game and
(08:43):
it's this young team on the road. There is a
great variance what you get at home and what you
get on the road, and we found it. And Indiana
is a tremendously good home team. It just it's it's
I gotta tell you, Miles Turner doesn't get a lot
of love. You know, his asthetic, he'll hit the corner
(09:05):
of three. But that dude in the second half. I mean,
Homegrown was great early, but Miles Turner is one of
those guys that in the league, everybody knows about Miles Turner.
I mean, if he's on the market, Lakers included, there'll
be multiple Sooners for Miles Turner. Everybody in the league
gets it. But on this team, you know, like tonight,
(09:26):
we're watching McConnell and 'ren Halliburt and we're always watching Siakam.
I thought, I thought in the second half, I thought
Myles Turner was huge.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I agree he he The specific dynamic he struggled with
a little bit in this series is Carlisle has him
coming way out to the perimeter to show at the
level of these ball screens and the thunderguards are just
so fast that he's had some trouble containing him there.
But in that second in that second half, it was
almost like he found his second win to where he
was moving a little better so he wasn't losing contain
(09:54):
as much. Carlile had him start to be more aggressive
and attack the ball in more of like a blitz two,
which he forced a couple turnovers that way, and then
at the rim, like Miles, Turner has always been one
of the best like shot blockers in the league. He
always racks up high shot block totals and got Chet
at the rim that closed out. He's got crazy length
that close out on the three point shot from Chet
late that was a big one. The stuff with Mattherin
(10:16):
and McConnell I find really fascinating. The reason why I
was keyed in on them to start the series is
when you're playing these young, super athletic teams like Oklahoma City,
the guys that become super important are your athletes, the
guys that have like some sort of physical trait that's
tough to match up with. TJ McConnell is unassuming, but
he is actually one of the very best guards in
(10:37):
the NBA beating people off the dribble. So he's immensely
valuable in this matchup because he can get that first
bit of dribble penetration that breaks down Oklahoma City's defense.
And he's such a good staunch athlete, like in terms
of like his but being a fire hydrant, low center
of gravity guy. He can pressure the ball and pick
up full court. He had three steals on baseline inbounds
(10:57):
in this game. Those were huge sequences in this game.
And then Ben matherin same sort of thing. He is
capable against a very athletic thunder team of getting to
his spots and rising up and knocking down shots because
he's a supreme athlete that can handle the ball. Nemhard
is a good ballhandler who's not a supreme athlete, and
Nie Smith is an elite athlete who's not a good
(11:19):
ball handler. TJ and Ben are both great athletes and
great ball handlers, and that's made them very valuable in
this matchup. And again, like Ben that like we're we
just saw a young player put up a massive twenty
eight point game in a in a must win NBA
Finals game like that is a huge moment for a
young player there, and like as far as like zooming
(11:39):
out and looking at the series, like I still lean
Oklahoma City. We have seen before teams like you know
the series. This actually reminds me a lot of is
Cleveland in twenty fifteen versus Golden State, where Golden State
is clearly the better team, but they're young and they're inexperienced,
and it's their first Finals appearance and they look a
little shook from the environment, and the Lebron goes up
(12:01):
to one on them. Now, obviously Indiana doesn't have the
Lebron element, but there was obviously way less talent down
the roster, but Indiana does have more veteran experience. They're
an older team, right, But what happens with Indiana here
is they're up to one, but Golden State was the
better team. They came in, won game four, then they
went home in won game five. Then they went back
to Cleveland and they won in game six. I am
(12:23):
going to give Indiana a good chance to win at
least one more home game, So I do think this
has a good chance to go seven. But I would
still make Oklahoma City the favorite at this point before
I kick it to you just so you know. The
Thunder are still from DraftKings minus two thirty to win
the series and the Thunder are minus six favorites in
game four. Where are you at in the series moving
(12:44):
forward at this point?
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Well, I you know, Game seven's in Oklahoma City and
they're really good at home. And again, bench guys rotational
guys are different players at home. I mean the Indiana's
bench in the second quarters night was insane. I mean
it was literally, I mean I think Carlisle was shook.
It was just like, wow, that's one of their best
quarters of the playoffs. I think, like I one of
(13:11):
the things that was a little surprising to me, I
thought Oklahoma City looked tired in the fourth and now
now the first half it was sixty four sixty. I
think the pace was in it would totally Indiana's pace.
It slowed down as games can is that situationally as
the possessions get very, very big. But you noticed it too.
(13:31):
I thought, okay, see looked a little gas in the fourth.
They had a bad fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, so that's the advantage of ball pressure. Like there's
been a lot of talk about the coverages I have
had my concerns with how they've used Turner because I
think Turner is a very good shot blocker, so I
want him at the rim. I don't think he's particularly fast,
so I don't want him on the perimeter, so like
I've wanted him sitting further back. But a lot of
the full court ball pressure stuff has also had some
downsides in that. One of the things Oklahoma City will
(13:57):
do is they'll have Hartenstein come out or check come out,
and they'll screen like almost at half court while SHA's
battling the ball pressure, and then he gets ahead of
steam from like sixty feet away from the rim, and
he got a lot of layups early in the game
out of stuff like that. And so there's a downside
to ball pressure in that you can beat ball pressure
and get dribble penetration. The upside with ball pressure is
(14:19):
in the big picture, which is for forty eight minutes
in front of that crazy home crowd, when you're facing
Nie Smith and Matherin and Themhart and all these guys
just in your jersey the entire game down the stretch,
you just don't have the legs because beating that ball
pressure just takes it out of your legs, and so
there's no doubt that like Indiana played the long game
tonight in Oklahoma City controlled at various points, but down
(14:42):
the stretch, Shay had his hands on his knees. He
was trying to grift a little bit more down the stretch,
looking for foul calls. Like you can tell he was tired.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You know the other thing that you know, this is
just something you don't talk about a lot. We don't,
analysts don't. But I remember talking to Mark Warkin team
I covered him at UNLB with Jerry Tarkany, and he
was an executive in the league, and he used to
always say the most underappreciated part of those great Michael
(15:10):
Jordan Bulls teams was their length. He was like Rodman
was long, Pippin was wrong, Luke Longley was long, everybody.
But Steve Kerr was long like Ron Harper, and he
was just like they just got their hand on the balls.
Indiana is long, when Poppin' Sayakam Turner, Halliburton's long there tonight,
(15:31):
just to show you their length. Okase had four blocks,
Indiana had eleven. Okayse had six deals, Indiana had thirteen.
How many balls? How many times? In this game. Did
you see the ball loose around the free throw line
and it was just a pacer that got their hand
on it, and keep when there are certain TJ. McConnell's
(15:55):
obviously not long, but he's feisty and quick, so he
gets his hand and he's fast. But dude, when they've
got Turner and Halliburton and Poppin, that is the length
of the Pacers, and I thought it really frustrated. OKC
chat Holmgren had multiple shots blocked, So we don't talk
a lot about that. Rebounding is a lot of things
(16:16):
beyond late, but length gives you those extra possessions and
touches and disruptions. Blocks and steals tonight, I mean, are
just totally one sided. And I think again that's stealing points,
which I thought the Pacers did.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah, Like there was a play where Jadub got a
clean corner catch out of the left corner. You might
remember this one in the in the first half and
or no, it was in the it was in the
second half. It was in the early part of the
second half, and Jadub drove Basine had a dunk, but
Tyreee came over and Tyreese has long arms, like Tyrese
has got length to your point, and he's the longest
(16:52):
point guard in the league. Yeah, and he's got reasonable
vertical athleticism too. So he got up and he contested
Jadub and Jadab missed the dunk. He missed the dunk.
And there there have been a few plays in this series,
like I actually think Halliburton has been a very good
defensive player in this entire playoff run. Like he's been sneaky,
really good because he's the thing within this is to
Carlisle's credit, everyone's committed to doing the job. And then
(17:14):
ty Reese like plays hard, like he's got his limitations.
He's not very big and strong and it kind of
looks like a a chicken run around his head cut
off sometimes on defense, but like he's got the length
to be impactful in that in that situation. And yeah,
like there was a there was a stretch there late
in the game where Carlisle rides top in for that
exact reason, like him being able to go over the
top of Oklahoma City on offense or meet somebody at
(17:36):
the summit at the rim on the other end, Like
those were that those have been huge parts of Indiana
success throughout this entire postseason run. And again, like you
want to know how you play passing lanes with length,
because all of a sudden it looks open, the passer
makes the read and it's not open because you have
the ability to close that ground. The one thing I
will say, and this is one of the reasons why
(17:56):
I still lean towards Oklahoma City to win the series,
there was a stretch in the third quarter where I
thought Oklahoma City really leveraged their athleticism.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, they're a good third quarter team too. They've done
this in the playoffs multiple times.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yes, And like going back, even I thought Game two
felt like the entire night felt like that. I don't
think Indiana can beat Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City in
a must win game because I think they can leverage
their defense and physicality and overall athleticism to the point
that's like almost too much for them to overcome. So
(18:31):
I think Indiana's pathway is they have to win the
two home games. They absolutely can. For the record, I'm
not saying Oklahoma City is like the surefire going to
still win the series. I lean towards Oklahoma City, but
Indiana I think has to win on Friday, and I
think they have to win next week on Thursday. I
think that's their path.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well, in the first six minutes of the game, Oklahoma
City was very disruptive. The Pacers were frustrated, the starters,
they just weren't getting good looks. So I mean Oklahoma
when they weren't gassed late and they're disruptive, there's no
getting around it. They're just fast and long and it's
almost collegiate like we've talked about. It doesn't look like
(19:10):
other defenses. So you know, I just don't want to
fall for this because I fell for it with Denver
and Boston, and I'm like, oh, these are going to
be dynasties and there are holes in Oklahoma City. I mean,
they'll probably lose Jalen Williams. Eventually, they can't pay everybody,
and they're going to pay home Grin because he's just
you know, he's just physically a different There's not a
lot of him out there. They're gonna pay SGA and
(19:33):
you know how it works now you can't pay three guys.
You know, Boston's going to go through this. So I
mean it's I know a lot of people look at
Oklahoma City and think, oh boy, this is going to
be something that they're going to be bad for the league.
It My take is this series is great. I mean,
we have two of the games in this series have
been all timers. And I also think I think Indiana
(19:55):
is a real team. I mean, I'm watching matherin tonight
and I again, I think he's got a little bit
of Westbrook, but he's not out of control. He's he's
a little bit more refined at this age. He was
a better college player than Westbrook. Again, more defined, and
I think he was the pac twelve player of the
year if I recall when he like, yeah, he was
a great player. But my takeaway I watched him and
(20:16):
I'm like, oh, they're gonna be good. Halliburton and him
and McConnell and and sayah, come, it's like Indiana's going
nowhere this I I don't know. I I said this
going back to the Cleveland series. I love watching the
Pacers play. I love their style, I love their I
love Halliburton. I just there's just there's something about a team.
(20:40):
There's a joy when Indiana plays. They are having a
really good time, and I think it just comes to
the TV.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Agree Like I I understand some of the the the
negativity surrounding the Finals in the sense that like it
lacks some of that juice for you know, especially for
casual yeah Game two, huge names, yeah yeah, and Game
two is super boring, like and it like, and it
obviously has not been hitting great TV ratings. But there
is a natural ebb and flow with the cycle of
(21:10):
the NBA as stars age in and out, and we're
definitely in one of those roles right now. But I
do think that the Pacers are providing an excellent showcase
for another up and coming team in the Eastern Conference.
And by the way, the East is pretty wide open,
Like you could argue Indy has every bit as good
a chance to make it back to the Finals next
year as Oklahoma City does with how open things are
in the Eastern Conference, right. I love the point you
(21:31):
made about Olahoma City, like it will get tougher, Like
I think Oklahoma City needs to get this one, because
the reality is is that once you start it to
your point, if you pay all three of those guys
max maxes, and by the way, they're not gonna be
regular maxes, these are gonna be all NBA players. They're
gonna be super maxis, you know, Like, and so once
you pay all those guys, they're gonna basically have to
surround them with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts.
Like I think they're gonna end up using all these
(21:52):
draft pick draft picks. They have to just cycle role
players through and they're gonna be hunting like three four
year college guys that play for major programs Kansas and
Villanova that they can trust to come in and play
role player basketball in the end. That's what I think
that they're gonna end up. That's what I think Sam
Price's gonna end up doing, And so their margin will
get smaller because they won't be surrounded by as much talent.
This is a particularly important series for them to win.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
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Speaker 2 (22:49):
I wanted to move on to the Knicks. So I
see this support this morning, and it's from Sham's talking
about how they're just calling up around all these big
shots coaches in the league, Jason Kidd email Udoka, Quinn Snyder,
Chris Finch. What do you make of this bizarre behavior
from the Knicks right now?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but James Dolan, who's
been in a band I'm not sure if he still is,
views himself as an artist and that's why he is.
His His greatest achievement is not the Knicks. I mean
he inherited the cable vision from his dad. Right, it's
the Sphere in Vegas, which is a remarkable Have you
(23:30):
been there? I think you have been there.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I've been there six times. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, So it's a remarkable musical engagement achievement all time
in the world, and that's really where his heart is.
Irving aves Off a former great promoter, now I think
he's MGM management. He is one of his closest friends.
He was, you know, he was a had a record label.
That's who. That's who James Dolan is. So when he
(23:55):
wants to get a GM, he goes after a star
Phil Jackson. Then he wanted Steve k and Amari Stodamire
on Bad Knees out of Phoenix, and Tibbs isn't his
kind of guy. So who does he go after? Jason Kidd,
who's a star. He's interested in Kevin Durant, who's a star.
That's who James Dolan is. He hangs around stars, he
(24:17):
loves stars. He's a creative. This is not a criticism,
but I think he listened to his players grumble. You know,
he sat down with his players and again he relates
to artists and athletes and stars. Just go look at
the history. And when he was doing the Spear for
two years, he was disengaged from the team, and they
got very patient and very pragmatic and very BASKETBALLI and
(24:40):
very villanova ish and that's and that's Tibbs. And so
you get rid of Tibbs. It's not the same culture,
it's not the same team. You still have the Villanova guys,
but it won't feel the same. So it just it
just feels like James, and I don't. I almost, you know,
he reminds me a little bit of Jim and that
(25:01):
Ersay would rather sit with his guitar and hang out
with Dylan outside of football more than anything else. And
I think James Dolan's a little bit of that. And
I think he's an emotional guy. He's an artist. He
relates to artists and he listens to his stars. And
he didn't have a plan, and I think it's a big,
(25:21):
big mistake. This, by the way, this is what every
Nick fan dreaded, is that when he came back from
the sphere he would get hands on And there are
various reports on who has their fingerprints on this, but
they're not getting rid of TIBs. He just signed a
new deal without Dolan, you know, acquiescing to a suggestion
(25:45):
or making the move himself. So in the end, this
is what the Knicks man. This league's crazy owners in
the NFL and the NBA. You know that all owners
now Jason are billionaires. It was ten years ago they weren't.
They made they were worth six hundred million or eight
hundred million. They wouldn't blow out staffs, They didn't want
(26:06):
to write a forty six million dollar check. That is
a rounding air. And now of these owners and they're all.
I see it in the NFL all the time, guys
will just blow out staffs. David Tepper write a sixty
eighty million dollar check. The owners didn't want to do
that eight ten, twelve years ago. They do now, So
I don't know who they're gonna land. They they I mean,
(26:26):
they've been turned out by seven coaches, all the good ones,
Finch and Emoduka and Jason Kidd, and they're just getting
turned down by everybody.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, matt Ishbia blew out his staff twice within two
years of owning the team.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Is it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I uh, you know, it's it's fascinating because, like I
tried to look at it in a very open minded way,
because like I actually do think Jason Kid's a better
coach now than he gets credit for a couple of
years ago. I wasn't super high on him, but he,
just like anybody else, as a competitor, has been doing
it for a while now and he's gotten pretty good
at it. Like I was looking at the Knicks for
a second, like I agree with you in terms of
(27:01):
the kind of topsy turvy unstable nature with which you
look and you portray to people when you fire your
coach in a situation like this. But I also think
Tibbs left some meat on the bone with this next team.
I thought they underachieved all season, Like right out the gates,
they underachieved.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
He's not a creative offensively, He's not. The team got
very predictable offensively.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I thought the major issue with this team schematically was spacing,
and it actually impacted both ends of the floor. On offense,
the meant what you're mentioning in terms of creative offense,
like his what he did on offense in terms of
his creativity. The spacing for this team was extremely poor,
which made life very difficult, but it had a trickle
down effect in the sense that poor spacing also affects
your transition defense, Like if you don't have your guys
(27:43):
situated in proper spaces on the floor, then on missus
and turnovers, you don't have guys in position to be
back in transition defense. And the Pacers annihilated them in
transition in worse than ever in Game six, like embarrassing fashion.
In Game six is Siakam and everyone else was just
getting run out lay up after runout dunk after runout layups.
So like I did think there was like a defensible
(28:05):
case to move on from TIBs to more of a tactician.
I actually see Jason Kidd is a solid option in
the sense that he was a master of modern four
out spacing with Luca when he was there, which actually
I think is a really natural fit with Brunson, and
Brunson co played for Kid before, so there's like some
natural stuff there. And then he did a good job
(28:26):
with transition defense with the MAVs despite them not being
super athletics, so I'd give him credit for that. That
would work. The thing there is it's just unrealistic, and
if I'm Jason Kidd, why would like I don't actually
see the Knicks as that grade of a job, like
insane New York pressure. The roster is really good, but
it's not amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And hell, by the way, Mikhale Bridges wants a new contract.
OG's getting paid, Brunson's getting paid like the Mitchell Robinson.
These guys are getting paid like that. Dallas think Lively's
not getting paid, Cooper Flag won't get paid. I don't
know of Max Christy doesn't cost much. AD's getting paid,
but you get twenty four and eleven. Like I look
(29:07):
at Dallas and I'm like, I get excellence when they're healthy,
and I get an incredible top end with Lively and Flagg.
I know what the Knicks are and there's a ceiling
and I see it all the time.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, exactly, Like I don't see it as being the
kind of job that Jason Kidd would be willing to
basically sabotage his situation and force his way there. And
then like the other names I saw, I didn't even
particularly like ima Udoka is a motivator, that's like his
primary role. I don't think that's a specific need for
the Knicks. Like I think the specific thing that Nick's
need is just someone to come in and take them
(29:44):
to the next level in terms of their offensive organization
and their spacing, which will lead to them having a
bunch of additional benefits and transition defense. I understand there's
a hesitancy to call a guy like Mike Malone, and
the reason why is because he has a reputation for
being a hard ass and Tibbs was kind of a
hard and like, I don't think they want to go
down that route again. But there's like hard ass and
(30:05):
then there's TIBs, Like Mike Malone leaned on his starters
big minutes, but still not even close to what Tibbs did.
And one of the things I'll say about Mike Malone,
he was an excellent defense and spacing coach. He made
a championship defense out of non championship defensive talent, and
they were always consistently one of the best floor spacing
(30:25):
teams in the league. And they were very good. And
again we can we got to at least Acknowledge. Jokis
was there, so k makes it a lot easier obviously,
but he specifically was very good at making spacing opportunities
out of non spacers, guys like Aaron Gordon, guys like
Christian Brown, guys like Bruce Brown over the years, guys
like uh Russell Westbrook. Even so like fitting a guy
like Josh Hart, Mitchell Robinson, some of these non shooting
(30:48):
types of players, even mckail Bridges, who has struggled a
lot as a shooter in this postseason run. Like, I
actually think Mike Malone is a really good fit for
this NIXT team. I think He's a completely reasonable option
that doesn't involve you doing something insane like Paul around
the league. Because here's what gets crazy. Let's say you
call the MAVs and they're like, okay, sure, let's talk
about Jason Kidd. What are you going to offer us?
We already acknowledged this is not a championship roster, So
(31:09):
you're going to give up assets for a coach. You
need players, You need talent in there, so like it's
specifically defensive talent your front court. So I don't really
understand what the endgame is here.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, I just I am on the short list of
people that think Dallas is going to be really good,
really fast. I think Flag and Lively are you know,
they're duke guys. They're gonna be quick learners. They play
at the highest level of competition Collegiately. I think One's
going to be One's twenty one or twenty two. He's
going to be a rim protector for the next decade.
(31:39):
So Cooper Flag can be out in transition, won't have
to worry about being down low and getting jammed up,
which has always been what Lebron loves. He doesn't want
to be messed up. In that junk. He wants to
you know, he wants that ball out and up the court.
So h and I just you know, PJ. Washington, Christy.
If Kyrie comes back, I'm not sure what they're going
to do with him. I would forget the taxes, forget
(32:03):
everything else. I would not lead Dallas. I think Dallas
is a good job. The situation that's fascinating to me
is Houston because I think I think right now san
Antonio is about ready to pop. So I like san
Antonio and they could get you honest, and I think, Okay,
see as set and I think Houston's going to be
(32:25):
in that group of three young teams a little lost
because Jalen Green, I'm in, Thompson's excellent, Sanngoon's excellent, but
there's just a lot of athleticism that's not very good
in a half court game. And I think I think,
okay Se has popped, san Antonio is going to pop,
and I so I could if I'm if I'm a dooka,
(32:49):
I would consider the job. I think Houston's one of
those that, like the national media, we hover in, we
drop in, we go. Oh, I got Houston. I didn't
like what I Saw. I'll be honest, and I think
you can push them around. I don't think they have
a lot of half court possessions that are just sort
of lost. You don't get good looks. They look a
(33:11):
little disorganized eye. But Jason kid to me, the next
five years in Dallas are gonna be fascinating with just
this trajectory that goes through the roof.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
The roster is weird because it's kind of imbalanced in
the sense that they just have an absurd amount of
front court talent, like you crazy Lively Gafford, Anthony Davis, PJ. Washington,
and Cooper Flag, Like that's five starting caliber players that
all play the four or the five. So, like, I
do see an imbalance there, but there's an insane amount
(33:44):
of talent. And I actually go the other way there,
which is like they can afford to go into training
camp and just bring all these guys in and start
playing and basically look around the league and be like,
who's gonna throw us the Godfather offer for PJ. Washington,
for a Daniel gafferd Ford, Anthony Davis, Like you could
argue that Ad is going to be the target that
someone goes after, like because AD's hurt now, so he's
(34:05):
got that classic. Everyone's down on him. They think he's old,
they think he's beat up. Ad comes out of training
camp looking like he's in great shape, motivated, kicks everybody's
butt for a couple of months. He instantly becomes like
a dude you could flip for an enormous mountain of assets.
And so I look at Dallas as a very, very
healthy situation moving forward. It's not the same Luka Doncic
(34:25):
were right on the doorstep of the title, but they
do have a lot of big picture potential. So let's
talk about Kevin Durant. We got a report from Shams
today that Kevin Durant and his business partner Rich Clement
are kind of canvassing the league looking for potential opportunities.
The five names that were thrown out in the SHAMS
report for the Houston Rockets, San Antonio Spurs, the Miami Heat,
(34:50):
the Minnesota Timberwolves, and the New York Knicks. Did where
did your head go when you saw that report this morning?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Well, I think he works everywhere. I think there's very
few players that everywhere and KD is one of them.
He doesn't necessarily need to be the soul of the team.
He doesn't need the ball constantly in his hands. You
get great length a willing defender twenty four, twenty six.
I think KD fits everywhere. You know, if I was
(35:21):
KD i New York, I think he fits New York well.
But Brunson has the ball in his hands. I mean
in his mind, is he thinking Brunston's got some Westbrook
like dribble the air out of the ball. And I'm
sitting in the corner, like I could see him like
I've been through that. You know, Kyrie, who he played with,
(35:41):
also can be a little bit like that. So I
could see KD just saying, you know, because he's got
the leverage here, I could see him saying, I've kind
of done the ball centric guard thing. I just don't
want it again. Pat Riley and Spolster are very convincing people. Miami,
he's a great place to play, no state tax, It's
(36:02):
a winter league, a lot of warm weather. Like Miami's
a really attractive place out east. But I'm a KD fan.
I think he fits in a lot of places, and
Minnesota he obviously fits. And you know, we've talked about this,
like Lebron in his prime was great, but he had
to be the offensive ecosystem you had to Chris Bosh
had to reduce, you know, got marginalized. Kevin Love can
(36:25):
get marginalized. Guys get away from the rim, go you know,
Kyrie Irving, you can't have the ball that so Kevin
never provides that kind of obstacle, Like he just kind
of fits. So I can tell you this, if if, if,
if you were a GM and you talk to a
coach or players, a lot of guys would raise their
(36:48):
hands and say, get KD. Because I think he loves basketball.
He's a good teammates's got a good sense of humor.
He doesn't need to be the media darling. I think
he's really liked and respected in the league.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I heard him say agree, I've you know, I've loved
the point you made about his fit. Like he all
five of these teams the basketball makes a lot of sense.
There's one. The one team that I was like that
doesn't make as much of a sense in terms of
the basketball fit to me was the Spurs because it's like,
I don't love the idea of putting a super thin
front court player that likes the perimeter next to another
super thin front court player that likes the perimeter. I
(37:21):
wasn't a huge fan of that one. It also just
doesn't really fit San Antonio's timeline. So the Spurs one
was weird for me. The heat, I liked the fit.
I just don't know why KD would go there because
it just feels like another move to a team that's
not good enough to win the title. Like I'm just
not sure that, Like is is Kevin Durant, Tyler Harrow,
bam Adebayo? Is that enough to win the title? I don't.
(37:42):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
When I'm watching that kid, Benedict Mathern for Indy tonight,
I mean, I'm not trying to overreact here, but when
I'm watching him and I'm like, Jesus, he's just a kid,
like he's gonna you're gonna get this two out of
three games next year? Like this is this? I mean,
by the way, again, I think was Hei the third
leading scorer on the team or fourth leading scorer this year?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Like he I think coming into the coming into the series,
he was actually the highest per minute score for the
Pacers in this playoff run because I use in a
shorter role, but his like points per thirty six minutes
was the highest on the team.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Okay, So I watched him and I think, oh, he's
going to become a full time starter and it will
be Siakam, Halle and Mathern are their three leading scorers.
So I mean, I just I'm looking at the East
and I'm like, I think Indiana is going to take
a leap next year. You know they'll play with a
finals level confidence. So I just I don't think. I
(38:39):
just I and I'm not just saying this because they're
up two to one. I look at Indiana and I'm like, man,
that is a team with I mean outside of I
mean Sayakam, he is what he is. I feel like
seventy five percent of Indiana, all these players will be
(39:00):
better next year. I mean out Sakhams game is his game.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
They're better than they were last year.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
It's just like as I was just so impressed with
him tonight. So we can start talking about with Tatum
out next year. It's gonna run through Indy. We've gotta
be honest about this. It's gonna run through Indy. They
are deep, they're well coached, most of their players are ascending.
The East is running through Indy.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I agree, And I don't see the heat as
like an obvious like, Oh, he goes there and he's
all of a sudden the favorite in the Eastern Conference.
I like the Rockets fit. I think his skill set
is desperately needed as a guy who's a career that
can shoot from the perimeter. He also brings length at
the rim, which is not like the Rockets are a big,
strong team. They're not like a long arms team like
(39:49):
Jabari Smith Junior is like the one guy they have.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
The Rockets need him, Jason. I would argue the Rockets
need him more than any other team that he would
play for. They need him. They are a half court
offense lost a lot.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, and he would go in there and immediately vault
them into top tier championship contention. So that move makes
some sense. I will say, by far, out of these
five teams, my favorite fit is the Timberwolves. It's a
similar lack of redundancy in the sense that he brings
kind of like exactly what the team doesn't have, which
is a rock solid secondary ball handler next to Ant
who can really generate shots for his team. But they
(40:26):
can surround KD with elite super physical defense, which is
what he hasn't had in these other destinations. And also similarly,
Nasrid not super vertical, Julius Randall not super vertical, Rudy
Gobert is vertical, but like the Kevin Durant would be
a guy at the four spot, different from Kat last year,
different from Nas who brings real vertical length to the
(40:48):
table where you can imagine Jaden McDaniels, Kevin Durant and
Rudy Gobert on the floor together in that front line
and it's like all arms just everywhere, and it would
just be really, really difficult to handle. But it's gonna
be really interesting. Hopeful, I'm hopeful that we get a
pretty quick like a set of action here in late
June where we find out where all these guys land.
But Colin, I sincerely appreciate you taking the time. We'll
(41:10):
join us tonight. It was good to see you. Everyone
who's hanging out here on the YouTube's triom. We are
heading over to playback, so that's playback dot TV slash
hoops tonight. We're gonna be hanging out for an extra
hour here after the show, taking callers and stuff. Colin
was great to see you man.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Great to see you, buddy.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
What's up guys. As always, I appreciate you for listening
to and supporting OOPS tonight. It would actually be really
helpful for us if you guys would take a second
and leave a rating and a review. As always, I
appreciate you guys supporting us, but if you could take
a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
The volume
Host
Jason Timpf
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