April 9, 2021 • 12 mins
How can you tell when a relationship is over or frankly should be over? Whether you're dealing with a romance or a friendship, it can be hard to move on. Dr. Saltz tells how.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Bees are challenging times, but you don't have to navigate
them alone. Welcome to how can I help? I'm Dr
Gail Saltz. I'm a clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at
the New York Presbyterian Hospital, a psychoanalyst, and best selling author,
and I'm here every week to answer your most pressing questions,
(00:27):
hopefully with understanding, insight, and advice. How can you tell
when a relationship is over or frankly, should be over?
I'm not just speaking of a romantic relationship, but really
any relationship. Being stuck and unable to get out of
a relationship with a friend or a co worker, even
(00:49):
a family member can cause endless pain without providing anything
remotely healthy, And yet it can be incredibly difficult to
leave even the most toxic of relationships. It's an issue
most of us deal with at some time in our lives.
That's why today I'll be answering your questions about relationships.
(01:11):
But first some context. As a psychotherapist, I work with
patients to work on and preserve relationships, but I also
help individuals assess when a relationship is doing far more
harm than good and figure out how to accept the
end of a relationship that is for them too toxic.
(01:32):
There are certain key factors to consider when assessing whether
you are in a relationship that can't or shouldn't be saved.
Top of the list and most obvious, is an abusive relationship.
A person who abuses you, no matter how much they
profess to love you or like you at other times,
is an unhealthy relationship you should leave. It is very
(01:56):
difficult for abusive people to change. It takes incredible, conserted effort, acknowledgement,
and desire to change on their part, and even then
sometimes they cannot. More often than not, abuse is simply
the number one red flag to end the relationship, but
(02:17):
there are other things that may make a relationship unable
to continue as well. Constant fighting with no resolutions, total
loss of trust the other person is unable to focus
on other than themselves, constantly feelings of mutual disdain or contempt,
(02:37):
even finding you share no values or morals in common.
When a relationship has gone on for a long time,
it can be difficult to step back and assess whether
you want to and can save the relationship. More often
people keep miserably limping along, believing they just have to
(02:59):
stay it and be victimized. Questioning each of these categories
and whether they apply to this relationship can help you
consider steps towards removing yourself from a relationship that is
hurtful and harmful. So let's get to it and see
how can I help. Here's question one. Dear doctor Saltz.
(03:27):
My boyfriend is smart, attractive, and we have a lot
of common interests. Everything's been great, but with the stress
and strain of trying to work and be together during
the pandemic, he has become increasingly annoyed about many different things.
When he is in a bad mood, he sometimes says
mean things like that was stupid or your friends are losers. Later,
(03:54):
he says, Oh, I was just in a bad mood,
forget about it, but I'm having trouble both forgetting about it.
It upsets me and sticks with me. And now when
I see him growing grouchy, I start feeling nervous about
what he might say when I talk to him about it.
He says I'm just being overly sensitive and that he
(04:16):
doesn't really mean it. But then it happens again. What
can I do? You might not like my answer, but
I'm going to tell you unequivocally to get out of
this relationship. Calling you stupid or in other ways attacking
your sense of self is emotional abuse, and over time,
(04:37):
emotional abuse can be every bit as devastating as physical abuse,
sometimes more. Another red flag is denigrating your friends, which
is often a precursor to isolating you from friends, such
that his power over you grows and he removes those
around you who might give you support end a reality check.
(05:01):
The worst of the red flags is that you've asked
him to stop, and instead he gaslights you by saying
it's really you and you're overreacting and it's not him.
This is not a man who has any desire to change,
and certainly not one who will do the hard work
of changing. While it is true that the pandemic has
(05:25):
made life much more difficult for many people, causing them
to feel sad or anxious, and even to have a
shorter views, these things only serve to reveal what someone
is truly capable of, not create something that they never
would have done in the first place. Over time, his
(05:45):
power over you will grow, your self esteem will shrink,
and it will only grow harder for you to leave
and save yourself It's also highly probable that over time
his abusiveness will escalate. Given his abusiveness, I would make
a plan to leave before you discuss it, a safe
plan that includes where you can live and be safe.
(06:10):
Domestic violence has gone up during the pandemic, and women's
shelters have made themselves more available for help for any
woman who needs a safe place to go, then arranged
to meet him in a public place to discuss the breakup.
Someone who has already been abusive is unlikely to handle
being broken up with well, and being in a public
(06:32):
place at the time is a safer option. How can
I help with Doctor Gale Salts will be back after
this short break. Here's our next question. Dear doctor Saltz,
(06:58):
I have listened to your podcast, specifically the episode on
COVID sleeplessness. I have a long history of sleep issues
and find that this is severely impacted by an unresolved
issue in a family relationship because the other person does
not care to resolve the situation and is actively hostile
(07:19):
and emotionally abusive. I spend much of my day trying
to resolve things in my mind. On a deeper level,
I know I have tried for many years to find
common ground and have been unsuccessful. During the day, I
stopped the negative thoughts by listening to podcasts and exercising
like yoga and running, so I'm really tired and have
(07:42):
breathing techniques at hand. However, at night, my mind seems
to have a bookmark that goes straight to this topic
when I wake up. Are there further things I can
do to prevent rumination and allow this issue to rest
at night? I have wonderful support from my close family
who also deal with same issue, but are able to
deal with the loss of this relationship by putting it aside.
(08:05):
Any suggestions would be much appreciated. It sounds like your
family has accepted the end of the relationship and you
are still stuck in a form of complicated grief about
the loss of the relationship. Grief over the loss of
an important relationship, even if it is a toxic one
and an abusive one, can take some people a long
(08:25):
time to process and fully accept. Things that can get
in the way are some feeling states like guilt, ambivalence, denial,
and unrealistic hope. It's not uncommon for an abusive person
to try to make you feel guilty for the end
of the relationship to tell you it's your fault because
(08:48):
you wouldn't accept them the way they are. And of
course this is true. You can't and you shouldn't accept
an abusive relationship, and this is a healthy choice. But
still it's your choice. But there is a difference between
being responsible and being guilty. Guilt implies doing something wrong.
(09:11):
You will need to have a conversation with yourself about
guilt and accepting responsibility without feeling guilty. Ruminating is a
way for your mind to say this person is gone,
no way I can think of how to get them back.
And this back and forth keeps you from having the
(09:32):
painful acceptance of the loss fully, but it also keeps
you trapped in a loop of denial and unrealistic hope,
but leaves you in a limbo of not in the
relationship and not out of the relationship. If the other
person has no interest in resolving anything or making any change,
(09:53):
then what you do need to know is that you
cannot make them change. You therefore cannot fix the relations
ship alone. Relationships require both people to make efforts towards
change for its compromise and resolution. Someone who is saying
that they don't want resolution and turns to abuse is
(10:14):
truly ending the relationship. You are now in the position
of finding a way towards accepting that enforced ending. You
will be sad it is a loss, but accepting it
is truly over Creating space partaking from your other relationships
for support and shared mourning will help you to stop
(10:37):
resorting to keeping possibilities for this relationship staying alive, at
least in your mind from ruling the day. I would suggest,
instead of pushing all thoughts away with yoga and running
during the day, set some time aside during the day
to focus on mourning and processing the acceptance of this loss.
(11:01):
Allow yourself time to think about it instead of pushing
it away all of the time. If you always bat
it away, it will come out sometime, like in the
middle of the night. If working on this on your
own does not improve it, you might consider getting help
and support to do so from a psychotherapist. I hope
(11:23):
that was helpful. Here are some thoughts about relationships that
I want to leave with you. As relationships are our
number one source of happiness, so too can they be
our number one source of pain and suffering. All relationships
require a lot of work time and compromise, and that
means we all expend effort but then derive pleasure from
(11:47):
our relationships. And when one person in the relationship turns abusive,
more often than not, it is not a one shot deal.
If your person has a history of abusive behavior or
repeats abusive behavior with you over and over again, this
is the one instance where repair may not be possible
(12:10):
and leaving is the safest and healthiest path. Do you
have a problem I can help with? If so, email
me at how Can I Help? At Seneca women dot com.
All senders remain anonymous and listen every Friday to how
can I help with me? Doctor Gail Salts
Bees are challenging times, but you don't have to navigate
them alone. Welcome to how can I help? I'm Dr
Gail Saltz. I'm a clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at
the New York Presbyterian Hospital, a psychoanalyst, and best selling author,
and I'm here every week to answer your most pressing questions,
(00:27):
hopefully with understanding, insight, and advice. How can you tell
when a relationship is over or frankly, should be over?
I'm not just speaking of a romantic relationship, but really
any relationship. Being stuck and unable to get out of
a relationship with a friend or a co worker, even
(00:49):
a family member can cause endless pain without providing anything
remotely healthy, And yet it can be incredibly difficult to
leave even the most toxic of relationships. It's an issue
most of us deal with at some time in our lives.
That's why today I'll be answering your questions about relationships.
(01:11):
But first some context. As a psychotherapist, I work with
patients to work on and preserve relationships, but I also
help individuals assess when a relationship is doing far more
harm than good and figure out how to accept the
end of a relationship that is for them too toxic.
(01:32):
There are certain key factors to consider when assessing whether
you are in a relationship that can't or shouldn't be saved.
Top of the list and most obvious, is an abusive relationship.
A person who abuses you, no matter how much they
profess to love you or like you at other times,
is an unhealthy relationship you should leave. It is very
(01:56):
difficult for abusive people to change. It takes incredible, conserted effort, acknowledgement,
and desire to change on their part, and even then
sometimes they cannot. More often than not, abuse is simply
the number one red flag to end the relationship, but
(02:17):
there are other things that may make a relationship unable
to continue as well. Constant fighting with no resolutions, total
loss of trust the other person is unable to focus
on other than themselves, constantly feelings of mutual disdain or contempt,
(02:37):
even finding you share no values or morals in common.
When a relationship has gone on for a long time,
it can be difficult to step back and assess whether
you want to and can save the relationship. More often
people keep miserably limping along, believing they just have to
(02:59):
stay it and be victimized. Questioning each of these categories
and whether they apply to this relationship can help you
consider steps towards removing yourself from a relationship that is
hurtful and harmful. So let's get to it and see
how can I help. Here's question one. Dear doctor Saltz.
(03:27):
My boyfriend is smart, attractive, and we have a lot
of common interests. Everything's been great, but with the stress
and strain of trying to work and be together during
the pandemic, he has become increasingly annoyed about many different things.
When he is in a bad mood, he sometimes says
mean things like that was stupid or your friends are losers. Later,
(03:54):
he says, Oh, I was just in a bad mood,
forget about it, but I'm having trouble both forgetting about it.
It upsets me and sticks with me. And now when
I see him growing grouchy, I start feeling nervous about
what he might say when I talk to him about it.
He says I'm just being overly sensitive and that he
(04:16):
doesn't really mean it. But then it happens again. What
can I do? You might not like my answer, but
I'm going to tell you unequivocally to get out of
this relationship. Calling you stupid or in other ways attacking
your sense of self is emotional abuse, and over time,
(04:37):
emotional abuse can be every bit as devastating as physical abuse,
sometimes more. Another red flag is denigrating your friends, which
is often a precursor to isolating you from friends, such
that his power over you grows and he removes those
around you who might give you support end a reality check.
(05:01):
The worst of the red flags is that you've asked
him to stop, and instead he gaslights you by saying
it's really you and you're overreacting and it's not him.
This is not a man who has any desire to change,
and certainly not one who will do the hard work
of changing. While it is true that the pandemic has
(05:25):
made life much more difficult for many people, causing them
to feel sad or anxious, and even to have a
shorter views, these things only serve to reveal what someone
is truly capable of, not create something that they never
would have done in the first place. Over time, his
(05:45):
power over you will grow, your self esteem will shrink,
and it will only grow harder for you to leave
and save yourself It's also highly probable that over time
his abusiveness will escalate. Given his abusiveness, I would make
a plan to leave before you discuss it, a safe
plan that includes where you can live and be safe.
(06:10):
Domestic violence has gone up during the pandemic, and women's
shelters have made themselves more available for help for any
woman who needs a safe place to go, then arranged
to meet him in a public place to discuss the breakup.
Someone who has already been abusive is unlikely to handle
being broken up with well, and being in a public
(06:32):
place at the time is a safer option. How can
I help with Doctor Gale Salts will be back after
this short break. Here's our next question. Dear doctor Saltz,
(06:58):
I have listened to your podcast, specifically the episode on
COVID sleeplessness. I have a long history of sleep issues
and find that this is severely impacted by an unresolved
issue in a family relationship because the other person does
not care to resolve the situation and is actively hostile
(07:19):
and emotionally abusive. I spend much of my day trying
to resolve things in my mind. On a deeper level,
I know I have tried for many years to find
common ground and have been unsuccessful. During the day, I
stopped the negative thoughts by listening to podcasts and exercising
like yoga and running, so I'm really tired and have
(07:42):
breathing techniques at hand. However, at night, my mind seems
to have a bookmark that goes straight to this topic
when I wake up. Are there further things I can
do to prevent rumination and allow this issue to rest
at night? I have wonderful support from my close family
who also deal with same issue, but are able to
deal with the loss of this relationship by putting it aside.
(08:05):
Any suggestions would be much appreciated. It sounds like your
family has accepted the end of the relationship and you
are still stuck in a form of complicated grief about
the loss of the relationship. Grief over the loss of
an important relationship, even if it is a toxic one
and an abusive one, can take some people a long
(08:25):
time to process and fully accept. Things that can get
in the way are some feeling states like guilt, ambivalence, denial,
and unrealistic hope. It's not uncommon for an abusive person
to try to make you feel guilty for the end
of the relationship to tell you it's your fault because
(08:48):
you wouldn't accept them the way they are. And of
course this is true. You can't and you shouldn't accept
an abusive relationship, and this is a healthy choice. But
still it's your choice. But there is a difference between
being responsible and being guilty. Guilt implies doing something wrong.
(09:11):
You will need to have a conversation with yourself about
guilt and accepting responsibility without feeling guilty. Ruminating is a
way for your mind to say this person is gone,
no way I can think of how to get them back.
And this back and forth keeps you from having the
(09:32):
painful acceptance of the loss fully, but it also keeps
you trapped in a loop of denial and unrealistic hope,
but leaves you in a limbo of not in the
relationship and not out of the relationship. If the other
person has no interest in resolving anything or making any change,
(09:53):
then what you do need to know is that you
cannot make them change. You therefore cannot fix the relations
ship alone. Relationships require both people to make efforts towards
change for its compromise and resolution. Someone who is saying
that they don't want resolution and turns to abuse is
(10:14):
truly ending the relationship. You are now in the position
of finding a way towards accepting that enforced ending. You
will be sad it is a loss, but accepting it
is truly over Creating space partaking from your other relationships
for support and shared mourning will help you to stop
(10:37):
resorting to keeping possibilities for this relationship staying alive, at
least in your mind from ruling the day. I would suggest,
instead of pushing all thoughts away with yoga and running
during the day, set some time aside during the day
to focus on mourning and processing the acceptance of this loss.
(11:01):
Allow yourself time to think about it instead of pushing
it away all of the time. If you always bat
it away, it will come out sometime, like in the
middle of the night. If working on this on your
own does not improve it, you might consider getting help
and support to do so from a psychotherapist. I hope
(11:23):
that was helpful. Here are some thoughts about relationships that
I want to leave with you. As relationships are our
number one source of happiness, so too can they be
our number one source of pain and suffering. All relationships
require a lot of work time and compromise, and that
means we all expend effort but then derive pleasure from
(11:47):
our relationships. And when one person in the relationship turns abusive,
more often than not, it is not a one shot deal.
If your person has a history of abusive behavior or
repeats abusive behavior with you over and over again, this
is the one instance where repair may not be possible
(12:10):
and leaving is the safest and healthiest path. Do you
have a problem I can help with? If so, email
me at how Can I Help? At Seneca women dot com.
All senders remain anonymous and listen every Friday to how
can I help with me? Doctor Gail Salts
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