Stop Kidding Around

American Ninja Warrior’s Akbar Gbaja-Biamila joins in and as always he really tells us How Men Think.

With guests Jerry O’Connell, Alfonso Ribeiro and Jo Frost "the Supernanny"... they all tell all!

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is How Men Think? And Gavin and I heard
radio podcasts Everybody Thought, bar Bosha b A. Milla, hosts
of American Ninja Warrior. Uh. I'm filling in for Brooks
and Gavin. I am now the guest host of How
Men Think. And this podcast is so interesting to me

(00:21):
because it really does do a deep dive into our
thought process. And today part of that thought process is
going to be Alfonso Rivieriro and good friend Jerry O'Connell. Uh.
Not to mention, we have some help the supernanny Joe Frost.
She's in UH today and we're gonna have a discussion
on how to adjust to the new normal, especially at home,

(00:44):
UH with school coming back into play back to school.
Everyone's excited. What does that look like? I'm interested. I've
got four kids of my own. I know Jerry's got
his kids, Alfonso's got his kids. What do we do?
How are we doing it? We're gonna hear from them shortly.
It Right now, let's bring in my two good friends,
Jerry O'Connell and Alfonso. Jerry, Dude, what's up, Alfonso? How

(01:16):
you doing? Brother? I'm doing good man. I feel like
you just came off the golf course. I think every
time I see you're always golf think I listen, I've
actually I haven't even been to my golf course in
two and a half months. Oh is that right? Yeah,
because I mean, why is that. Well we'll get into
that during the interview, but I went, I've been all

(01:37):
over the country in my RV and haven't played really
any golf at home. I'm actually gonna go tomorrow for
the first time in over two and a half months
to play golf. I'm gonna take my boy with me.
Oh that's good, all right, Well, that's good. May happen
having a little bit of fun out there, Jerry? What
about you? Nothing? I actually, um, I am taking golf lessons.

(01:57):
I'll be ready. I'm trying to get myself ready for
or when I go out with Alfonso, and I don't
embarrass myself totally when I'm out there. But nothing, man,
just sitting at home watching you on Instagram, watching me
on Instagram. Well look, let's dive right into this. You know, uh,
everyone kind of you know, knows that school is getting
ready to come back in and people often how what's

(02:21):
this new normal look like? For especially for fathers um
and for you to look, you guys are big time,
prime time celebrities. I gotta just ask you guys, straight
off the top. Do you guys cook at home? I
know you know, Alfonso, you've been in and out r
V at home. Are you guys cooking at home? Um? No, no, no,

(02:42):
um when I've been home. But to you know, I'm
really good at breakfast, so I'll do breakfast. Breakfast is
something that I can do, but my wife is so
much better at it that my kids. If I actually
say I'm making breakfast, I hear the all like you know, like, well,
I gotta feel that way. But every once in a
while I give my wife a break and she doesn't
want to, you know, she stays in bed a little

(03:03):
longer with the baby, and and I'll come down and
cook for the boys. And it's like, you know, I'm eggs,
maybe a little turkey bacon, you know, just basic, basic, basic,
No turkey bacon, turkey bacon. But what about pancakes. Yeah,
my wife does the pancakes. My wife, My wife does pancakes.
She does the Swedish pancakes, is a regular pancakes. She

(03:23):
does the pancake. So the kids really like the pancakes.
I can do. I can do French toast. Okay, but good.
You know they're not really into it as much. So
so yeah, So I don't do a lot of the cooking.
My wife does most of it. But um, during during
this pandemic, we've been doing it in our r V
in different cities all over the country. So she's had

(03:44):
to really up the quick RV cooking game, right, Like
you don't want to cook for an hour in the
r V, you don't really get you know, super specific
and start getting creative. It's like, okay, what are the basics?
What can we eat? What's quite? And she rocks it
out right. So the bob Evans, you know, mac and

(04:04):
cheese and and and mash potatoes have been great for
us because she can knock it out. Me. Yeah, no,
not so much. I know too, You're you're on that
bob Evans stuff too, Jerry, Listen. I know I know
you're asking about our our culinary skills at bar because
I do follow you on social media and if I recall,

(04:24):
you posted a recipe for your vegan pancakes a couple
of years ago. I recall, um, they looked amazing. I
unlike you. I'm not very good in the kitchen. Hence
why I think Bob Evans and I work so well together.
They are ready to eat all real ingredients. I popped
them in the microwave, and my children have mac and cheese,

(04:45):
mashed potatoes boom right there. Because I am now now
that they're distance learning, I am now their cafeteria chef,
so I'm in charge of their school. So you just
you look it up with the Bob Evans in the
boom boom boom, and they go, hey, guys, now get
back to your zoom class. Exactly. It's um, it's it's
it's just so easy for me. And also I'm ashamed

(05:08):
to admit I am not the vegan pancake culinary expert
that you are a far you well, no judgment. It
sounds great. I'm hungry too right now, and that sounds great.
You might actually convert me. Well, my wife, my wife
is of Swedish heritage, so she makes the Swedish pancakes also,
and so she rolls them up with the butter and

(05:29):
little powdered sugar on there. So there's and then we'll
make them make the regular pancakes. Will make banana pancakes.
Will make blueberry banana pancakes, so she she rocks it
out me. The Swede panca. I've never heard of that before.
The pcakes. The Swediest pancakes are like paper thin, so
you actually need a grittle to make it all. You

(05:50):
can't make them in a pan or anything like that.
You gotta need a full griddle. And you make them.
She makes a gluten free one and it's like super
paper thin and you roll them up. Um, you can
put it's like a create. It's basically like a crepe,
except of a pancake, and so it tastes a little
different than a create. Create doesn't really have the flavor.
Where do they still have some of that flavor? Well,

(06:13):
look for all the listeners. For those of you guys
who actually want to get more information on Bob Evans Farm,
you guys can go and find that information on bob
Evans Grocery dot com. Um, I'm sure people are going
there right now. That sounds pretty good. We're talking about fatherhood,
you know, and fatherhood has been challenging, I know, at
least for me because you know with four kids funds.

(06:35):
I know you have four. I've got twins Jerry, I
know you've got twins. What's been the adjustment, um or
the biggest adjustment you guys have had to make during
this time, because I think especially I know, you know,
husband and wives can kind of go at each other.
For me personal story, in the first two or three weeks,
I was like super Dad, trying to do everything, and

(06:56):
then after a while I just was like and I
just hey, maybe yeah, you take this because it was hectic.
I didn't know what to do. And so now preparing
for the new school year, I'm trying to come up
with some more plans, but I wanted to hear kind
of some of you guys plans on how you're gonna
just for this new staying at home and distant learning. Well,
I'm I'm actually one of those people that I view life.

(07:18):
I'm very mental about life, right, So what I'm always
trying to do is recognize, Okay, this is our new normal.
Let's figure out how we do this for the long distance. Right.
So I'm not gonna be the guy who comes in
and goes I am super Dad for two weeks and
now I'm out. Um. I I want to be, you know,

(07:38):
a stable, steady flow through the summer through all of this, um,
and so my wife and I have agreed that I
think the best way to do that is to find
the things that we do and keep a normal pattern
every day so it doesn't feel very different. Then eventually,
once we reached the point where that was, you know,

(07:59):
two and a half months old, we then said, all right,
we need to switch this up and we bought an RV.
So we bought the r V and went out. Basically,
I've driven over twelve thousand miles. Dead serious, So we
broke out. We were like out of l A, like

(08:19):
l A. The numbers are going crazy, the world is
kind of opening up, but I don't believe that we're
gonna be okay. So we were like, let's break out
of here, let's go, let's go see family, let's do it.
R Ving is the is the easiest social distancing way
to travel. You are by yourself, you never need to
be around anybody. You go into the truck stop, you

(08:41):
put your thing in. There's actually apps that you can
do where you you're like, I'm at pump twenty three
and fill it up, get back in and keep it moving. Um.
The only thing you ever have huh, expensive gas for that. Um,
well it's diesel, so you know, it's it's it's in

(09:02):
some places it's more expensive. In some places it's cheaper,
depending on where you are in the country. But but
we we we just went and we and we loved it,
and so we got into the rhythm of I always
said to her, you handle inside. I got outside, right,
So anything that we're doing outside, anything that was like

(09:23):
physical with the RV, all of that was me. She
handled all the inside, most of the cooking, most of
the you know, we both clean, but um, you know,
the handling of the stuff inside. She got about what
about the zoom meetings for for classes and and all
the educational stuff. So typically at most r V parks
they've got WiFi, so you can tap right into the WiFi.

(09:46):
The other thing is is that my RV actually has
a four g um actual hot spot. So I as
long as I have cellular, I have a hot spot,
and basically I have WiFi that everyone can connect to.
So Alfonso's WiFi in his RV is way better than

(10:07):
my WiFi at home as loud as you've got cellular.
As long as you've got cellular, the WiFi works great.
Like for the kids. We you know, we're streaming in
the r V. We've got WiFi, we can get on computer,
we're we are a mobile unit traveling around the country
and it was fantastic for all of us. Now I'm
back in l A because now we're back at work

(10:29):
and we're filming a f V again, So I've got
to be here. But I have like a month that
I'm gonna be off. We're wrapping up in the mid
September and we're gone. We are out of here again.
We're gonna go away for a month, go traveling. UM.
Whenever we need to go anywhere. We're gonna just make
sure that the places that we go have four G
capability UM, and we'll be we'll be doing schooling and

(10:52):
social distancing all of that while still not being stuck
in the house because we just don't know how long
this is gonna be. And for us, we felt like
it was super important to create a world that they're
going to be happy in. UM. Unfortunately, not to create
that world for my kids, you know, to be able
to buy an RV, to be able to go do that. UM.

(11:14):
But but I think the important message, though, Alphonso, is
what you're talking about is the ability to adapt. So
you know, regardless of what their finances as your capability is,
you had something that you were able to adapt and
it was sustainable. And and so I guess I asked you, Jerry, like,
what was your how did you adapt and what was
sustainable for you? Because you know, I think I'm looking

(11:34):
at myself right now. I did something that wasn't sustainable.
I wanted to overdrive to try to compensate for all
of this hectic stuff, and like you know, new information
coming out, and so I try to go an old
drive and then I got burnt out. It wasn't sustainable.
And then I just telling myself sitting in my office
watching the news, feeling like I was depressed and just
getting all the update, Well what should we do? Should
we overbuy? And do we done by it? It was

(11:57):
all this stuff. What's been the way that you've kept
things sustainable? Jerry? Well, my family and I did rent
in RV for four days and we drove to the
settlement four miles. We we went to the southern tip
of Yosemite. And after four days, I mean it was
not going well. We got out of their movie, so

(12:18):
we don't have I don't have the bond that Alfonso's
family has with each other. Obviously. UM no, if the
if there's anything I've learned, UM during these last five months,
is I really have to have patience as a dad.
You know, I'm you know, I'm the dad, and um

(12:39):
if I'm freaking out, um in my household, and by
the way, I have a right to be. I when
I got married to my wife, I never thought I'd
be spending this much time with her. When I had
children with my wife, I never thought I would be
spending this much time with them. I mean, we're kind
of joking, but I'm not. Normally, I have a job,
I go somewhere. Uh, I can go out to a restaurant,

(13:02):
I can go meet my buddies at a bar. I
can go play golf with Alfonse. So um, really all
of those things are not open right now, and I'm
stuck with these three people in my house. And listen,
It's very easy when your kid comes in and screaming about,
you know, not being able to get onto a WiFi,

(13:23):
onto a zoom class. You know, it's so easy to
say like, um, you know, stop yelling at me. I
don't know why you're you're kicking on the zoo class.
It's not like I'm not like a zoom experts um,
you know, I like, I don't work at best by
What what do you think? You think? Geek squad um?
What was it? What was your first response when your
kids say, hey, Dad, I want to change my background?

(13:45):
My daughter asked me, that's like, I don't even know
what that is, Like, what are you talking about? Like?
How do you change? All my friends have backgrounds. I'm like,
I'm sorry, I've never even heard of m until the year.
You've having a seventeen year old, right, so she's the one.
It's like if I need to know how to do something,
I'm like, hey, Sienna, can you show me how to

(14:05):
do this? And my wife is really good at that,
you know. Listen. The beauty of all of this is
basically being able. Like I bought a new RV. New
RVs typically have the most problems, right, An older RV
actually is typically they've gone through all the problems. I've

(14:26):
gotten them fixed. Right. So I went into this knowing
that things were going to happen. We were going to
deal with people who were going to be rude. We
were gonna deal with racism because we went through areas
of the South and places in the Midwest that we're
not school. We were dealing with, you know, the r
V having trouble. At the end of the day, it
was like, we're not going to allow this to affect

(14:49):
our energy. We are going to blow it off the
shoulder and keep on moving. And I think that is
and I'm not saying that I'm perfect and anyway, but
I look at it and I say that is what
we all need to be able to do during this time.
Nothing is in our control. We've got to let go

(15:09):
of certain things that are simply not controllable and accept that, Okay,
these things are going to be difficult. These things are hard,
but how do we roll with it? And for me
as the guy, as the man, as the man of
the house, I'm like, well, if I set the tone,
then everybody else can follow. Right now, how do you
how do you move that forward? Because there are a

(15:30):
lot of people who are you know, who are listening
in and they're saying, Okay, I need to now learn
from what I did last year. What are some of
the things that you learned from last year that you go, okay,
you know what that didn't work. This is what I'm doing.
In for for example, my kids fitness levels dropped. Uh,
they're eating habits got nasty. I mean because and myself included,

(15:54):
because I constantly was going to the fridge either out
of emotional boredom on a stress. My kids feel like
they're locked up. Where you play outside, Okay, go real
quick and ride your back around the thing. And you
know we're just making stuff up. But now like for
for for example, I am now like creating as as
we're speaking now, as soon as we get off this

(16:15):
off this podcast, I'm actually creating a PE list for
the entire school years, so I know that the fitness
level no matter what during PE time, there's no I'm
not taking any meetings, I'm not having any work. I'm
not doing anything unless they come pay me to do.
I want my kids and I want my kids in
your gym class. I will send mine to the school

(16:40):
of pech. I think, I think what you're saying is
absolutely perfectly right off Like I think you're you're you're
creating a system, and that is the way we all
function at least for us in our house, is the best.
Like when it's just like well, we're just gonna roll
with it. It doesn't always work the best. This is
what doing. We're getting up in the morning. We're gonna

(17:01):
take our showers, we're gonna brush our teeth. We're gonna
go downstairs. We're gonna have breakfast. We're gonna zoom class
for two hours. Then we're gonna get up. We're gonna
go outside. We're gonna run around. When we're outside running around,
we're gonna do this, this, this, this, and this. Okay,
then we're gonna come back in. We're gonna do that again.
We're gonna got on a zoom call. Then we're gonna
get off of that. Having a complete schedule, we actually
have a board and we write down everything that they

(17:25):
need to do, whether it's speech classes or whatever. It's
on the board. So now you're not actually being the
bad guy. The key to it is it's on the schedule.
It's already on the board. We know we have to
do this, and I know that it stinks right now
that you've got to do it, but it's on the board.

(17:45):
You make the board the bad guy, and you sense it.
And of course you know as they get older, they're
like you wrote the board we're talking about, but you're
keeping them on a schedule. Kids like consistency, right, Why
do kids, you know, at a younger age not get
upset when they have to go to school because it's consistent.
They know they gotta do it. This isn't this isn't

(18:05):
a choice creating those systems. It's exactly familiarity with things
that they're comfortable doing. If you create exercises in your backyard. Um,
I lost ten pounds over COVID right, like, yeah, you
saw it looks very gave you. Jerry just gave you

(18:26):
that look like come on, man, like I put on
you know, it was a look of I'm ashamed right
now because I show you what I don't want to
show you what's happening under here. You know what I
call it. I call it Corona Chubb. That's what I've
called it. I've called I've put on six pack there,
it's like now it's like a one pack now. But

(18:48):
it was any but any facial expressions I was making
was out of jealousy, saying here like, come on, I
lost ten pounds and it's just simply one wife's cooking
right now. I don't get to go to in and out,
or I don't get to go to my favorite restaurants

(19:08):
that put a boatload of butter and other stuff in
it that like is going to make you gain weight,
Like she was being consistent with breakfast, was this, lunch?
Is this dinner? Is this? And different? You know, switching
it up of course, but it was controlled so to me.

(19:30):
And then getting up in every day when we get
to a new RV site, we go for a walk,
get the kids out, we're gonna go. They hop on
their scooters, We go for walks, we walk around the place,
we get up, we do some exercise, we went a
little bit, we throw the ball, We're doing stuff, and
we're moving every day. And that's just consistent. If you

(19:51):
can do that every day in your home living, that
consistency turns into positivity. So, Jerry, what what kind of
fun activities are you doing with your kids to get
them moving or just just to kind of break the
monotony of being at home, because I think that's the
other part that was difficult, is that I think my
kids got tired of seeing our four walls, you know,

(20:13):
just like, uh, do we have to again anything you're
doing differently? First of all, at Bar. I do have
to say, if you do do a PE class for
kids in school, please put it on your Instagram, send
us all the link. Let's all join up. This would
be amazing if you had like a large PE class
that you were running it. I mean, I would be

(20:35):
definitely into that. It's tough to get my kids moving
around a little bit, you know. I mean, I think
it's also why I'm so grateful to be, you know,
partnering with Bob Evans these days, is that you know,
we're responsible for every meal at home now and if
not for Bob Evans and they're ready to eat you know,
meals with made with real ingredients. Um, i'd uh, I'd

(20:58):
be up the creek man. You know, I'm gonna jump
on that because I can tell you real talk. My
grocery bills I mean just went, I mean just it
just we blew up the whole budget. The budget was
just blown out because it was hard to kind of
figure out what the new pacing of eating was and
not having stuff there, and we lost time because we're like,
I'm hungry, we gotta make something because we weren't used

(21:22):
to that that that flow where you know, at home
when that's cool. We're not worried about making anything. Now
we have to try to come up with the menu
and try to create all of this to kind of,
you know, keep the kids at bay and then you know,
there's these long stretch, but any other fun activities you
might be doing with the kids, or any great ideas
like just to kind of break up you know, I mean, listen,

(21:44):
I know I'm speaking to an elite athlete right now. UM.
I do want to say I did attempt to put
my children into like a soccer camp before all this. Um,
I have two daughters and you know, I wanted to
see if they they had any athletic ability whatso whatsoever.

(22:06):
And I put them in a soccer camp and the
coach called me up, and uh, I was like why
is the what why do you call me up? Coach?
And he was like, I want to talk to you
about your daughter. And I was like, wow, this is
this is how it happens, Like this is in my head.
I was like, you your your your kids starts playing
soccer and then the coach says, I need to work
with her alone. I think she's she can really take

(22:28):
it to the next level. I think we have the
next Mia Ham on her hands here and I was like,
I guess I'll be driving her all over the country
in our different tournaments and stuff. I can't believe this.
Like she's gonna represent the United States. It's gonna be
really great. And the coach said, your daughter shows no
interest in soccer whatsoever. I feel bad taking your money
and having her come to this class all the time.

(22:48):
It's like, wow, coach, I don't pay you to hear
your opinion. Just keep her alive, her run her. That
escalated quickly. I mean, it was a precipitous drop. That's
that's the balloon. It one. The thing is the thing

(23:14):
for us is that like and I'm I feel like
I'm really lucky. My two boys are UM are Jeff athletic,
and they want to run around and they're literally outdoors
trying to, you know, run around and do as much
as they can all the time. UM My daughter was
UM on the road to being an Olympic gymnasts. UM

(23:34):
and now she's seventeen. She heard her back, so she
wasn't able to do it anymore. But the meeting, the
minute that happened, she switched over into dance. UM, so
you know, motivated physically, Um, my kids are so for me,
it's it's then kind of focusing that energy, trying to
just make sure that that energy gets focused into learning,
into developing skills and becoming better at whatever they're they're

(23:57):
interested in. Um, I'm probably this afternoon gonna take my
my kid out to the driving range and we're gonna
go hit golf balls, right just because he wants to
go do it. He just he's all in so um.
But but in terms of advice, I would say, you know,
you've got to make it fun. I think every person

(24:18):
who's ever made it to the elite in any sport,
in anything in the world, it's not other people pushing
you to do it. You gotta find those things that
they enjoy, you know, have them try everything. People you
used to laugh at me all the time because it's like, dude,
you do everything, And I'm like, yeah, I do everything.

(24:40):
The reason why I do everything is because I tried
everything right and I didn't just try and like I
did it one day and I was like, yeah, I
didn't like it. I was like, no, no, I'm gonna
learn how to play baseball. I played baseball. I'm gonna
learn how to play basketball. I played basketball. I'm gonna
learn how to race cars. I race cars. I'm gonna
learn how to play golf. I play golf like I

(25:01):
do it. I learned how to play racquetball. I learned
how to play tennis. I learned. I learned everything and
learned how to dance. I learned how to sing. I
learned how to act. I learned how to direct. I
learn how to light. I learned how to write right. Like,
just keep learning, just keep trying, and don't make it
a short run. Figure it out, do it just enough.
Just motivating our kids to just try things and to

(25:25):
experience things is the key. The one thing I've said
in all of my life. I do this all the time.
I say, I don't want to read about something in
a history book or in a geography book. I want
to go see it. I want to go experience it.
I want my kids to go what does Mount Rushmore
look like? And not decide to go to a magazine

(25:46):
or a book or on the internet to look at pictures.
I want them to go to our picture library and go, oh,
when we were at Mount Rushmore, this was cool because
of this, this, that net because they experience it, and
that experience experience really sticks with them. It's something that
is cemented in them. I guess the last one for
me would be for both of you guys. Jerry, I'll

(26:07):
start with you, is how do you challenge your kids?
Because what I've seen and what I know to be true,
is that when you're with your kids that long, you
start to see deficiencies areas that maybe the schools can't
see because oftentimes when you you send your kids to school,
you know, you come home and you've got the homework
that they're dealing with. You see that. But I'm seeing

(26:28):
other things and my kids that I didn't know really existed.
So I'm trying to challenge them. So I guess what's
the best play because I know I Fonso was talking
about trying to find a way like athletically, what what
a kid likes? How do you challenge your kid in
a way that is productive? Um, you know, sometimes feelings
get hurt. How do you do that? And You've got
twins so I know and I both have shared that

(26:49):
in common. I find screaming at them helps if you
really like get in their face and you really yell
and serious teasing, making fun of them, teasing them, finding
out what their insecurities are really like, get hammering them
on those These are jokes everyone. Um I guess it's

(27:11):
like Fonso said, just find something that they also enjoy,
you know, I mean, like I mean Alfonse, I was
just talking about it. With the golf too. I got
a couple of lessons for my girls. I was really
I saw that photo of Tiger catting for his son
and I was like last week, I was like, girls
were taking some golf lessons. We're getting out there and

(27:32):
they're just not feeling it. And you can't force you
can't force him to do with what they kid do. Hey,
act bar, I gotta say that photo you posted with
your son and Kobe the other day was very emotional.
That was bring the kids and athletes and stuff. I
mean that was crazy. Yeah, you know, those those types
of moments you never forget. You know. Obviously yesterday was

(27:53):
um or when I posted that Ko Kobe day and
just thinking about you know, him taking that time after
he kept his word during the game that yeah, I'll
come get that photo with my son, and it was
just one of those things I'll never forget. So that's
why I posted it um, I'll find some what about you.
We're out of time here, but I wanted to get
your thoughts on how you challenge your kids to be

(28:14):
the absolute best when you're around them for so long,
especially when you see weaknesses you know academically, how do
you challenge them to get better in that? So? I
like to utilize UM. When I used to race cars professionally,
there were two trains of thought, right. The first thought
was where are you good on the track and where

(28:35):
are you bad on the track? Make the areas on
the track better and try to be just overall good.
And then the other thought was, don't worry about the
places you're bad on the track. Make sure you're the
best on the track in a specific area, because if
you can just make it through while in your bad areas,

(28:59):
you will really succeed in the areas that you are great.
So I don't try to focus on the areas where
they're where they're deficient. I try to really push the
areas that they are great at and really lift those up. Now,
by lifting those up, you create a difference between what

(29:22):
they're really good at and what they're not if they
have it inside themselves, and that kind of internal motivation.
They'll want to lift the bottom and get it closer
to what you've excelled at. So to me, I'm pushing
on all the areas that they're great. Let's just focus here,
focus and be better, be better, be better, be better,

(29:43):
be better, be great, be great. Because they desire that
they want to be great there, then that ego lifts
the bottom of the things that they're not so great at.
They'll help lift that up to be closer to the
areas in which they're great at. Um. Did you also
did motivational speaking as well? Did you say that I've done.

(30:06):
I've done a little. But but the thing for me
is that that is the that is. You know, we
all have to have a theory of our lives. How
do we function and what is our theory about how
do we succeed in life? Right? Jerry and I know
this very well. In acting, one person gets the job.

(30:28):
So if I'm a chubby, short guy, I don't need
to work on my muscle skills because I'm not going
to get a role as a big hunk in an
action film. I'm a little chubby guy. I need to
be funny, so I will be the funniest little chunky

(30:48):
guy on the planet, because that's where I'm actually going
to succeed. And then once I succeed there, I'll lift,
I'll get shape, I'll do that. But be great at
the things that you're great at it, don't be mediocre
at everything. Yeah, I love that. I love that because
what I'm hearing from that is operating in your strength.

(31:11):
And that's what I noticed with my own kids. I
try to get them to operate in their own strength. Um.
I try to encourage them. I try to identify the
negative talk because you hear that, you know, when they
get off the computer, if they're frustrated from a lesson.
I try to identify the negative talk and then encourage
them because I always say, my mom told me this
a lot, is that your words are very powerful. When
it comes out of your mouth is usually your state

(31:32):
of mind. And so trying to reverse that and get
them to see the best of themselves. But guys, this
is great. Um, you know, people are getting a real
thought or real look into how men think. So thank you, guys,
Jerry Alfonso for giving your time. Twelve thousand miles. That's
a lot of miles. Now I gotta go look at
my budget and see if I can at least get
six thousand miles in our because that's pretty dope. I'm

(31:55):
not gonna lie, that's pretty dope. Yeah, we were about
to put a bunch more. We put a bunch more
all there each bob Et Grocery dot com foods along
the way. All right, thank you guys so much. All right,

(32:15):
so we're back, and let me tell you that was
such a great conversation with Alfonso and Jerry. I learned
so much. We're so we're so much alike, but we're
so different and so that was cool. But uh, we've
got a real treat coming up next. You guys know
her as the Supernanny, but Joe Frost is just an
absolutely an amazing mind and amazing supernanny. Joe, are you

(32:38):
with us? Appreciate Thank you for having me. Yeah, no problem,
I mean you are v Joe Frost. Obviously the Weld
earned title of the Supernanny. What would you say the parents,
the parents who are listening, UM is probably maybe if
you have an advisor to on how to start the
new school year, because I think that's probably the most

(33:00):
important thing. A lot of people are anticipating what is
this year going to look like? Last year kind of
a last school year rather was just kind of a
wash because we were all kind of reactive. How do
you become proactive in this new school year? I mean,
first and foremost, I think you have to which is
a tough one for American families. Having spent many, many

(33:24):
years around the world helping different families. Um, I think
you've got to lower your expectations. I think we in
our mind want to be running the gamut of how
things were before and psychologically being in a space to
be able to accept where we are at right now,
where the limitations are. But what we can do is

(33:47):
a mindset that basically allows us to look at the
cup of right what can we do rather than feeling
like everything's being taken away from you and the walls
are getting smaller and small are so lowering your expectations
Number one is important. Um, with respect to you know,

(34:07):
what can we do in the day? How does that
schedule work? Because I can tell you having spoken to
families around the world regarding school, it's not ideal for
any of us. You know, it's not a perfect picture.
With respects to how those schedules bode with parents that
are homeworking. Um with the amount of different kids of

(34:32):
ages that parents have and the work that's going to
be expected, Like you know, you want to pray right
now that you hope that you taught those life skills
because if not, you're going to have a nine year
old that's going to be calling you like a five
year old right needing to do work right now. And
it's teaching us, you know, it's it's in a way

(34:53):
I see it like like an athlete. Right there's the
endurance and the stamina and the moments where you push
yourself a little bit more because you're having those breakthrough
moments right to excel. And right now, that's what parents
are doing up here. You know they're finding it tough
and there, you know, they're feeling like they're nearly at

(35:13):
the finished line and they're being told not just a
little bit more, just a little bit more, just a
little bit more. And that's painstaking because right now we've
got a whole heap of parents crying, yeah, thinking that
a finishing line maybe here, but we can't see it.
There's no exploration date. So I would say lower expectations

(35:35):
be realistic with what you can manage. It's not going
to be perfect. We cannot reach that. However, our duty
first and foremost is to look after our kids, keep
them alive, keep them safe, make sure that you have
a routine in place that it's going to support the

(35:55):
schedule that allows you to be able to pace yourself
during the week. But because if you don't, then you
don't get enough sleep, Then you get irritable. Then arguments happen.
Then the kids a moody for every little thing, Like
you cut the toast in triangles and it's not good
enough now they want it in square Like your teenager

(36:16):
is arguing with you and all of them, you know,
all of a sudden, you're like, I'm arguing with my
liven year old here, like what is going on right right?
And you're like, what is going on? Like I just
sound like I'm in a playground right now, um, And
you find yourself caught in this tornado of mayhem rather

(36:40):
than a moment where you can stay grounded, stay grounded
and focused on what's the objective. The objective is not
to complete everything perfect. The objective is to be able
to pace, have a routine that supports the family, come
together if you can at lunchtimes and meal times so
that you can connect. Don't spin a thousand plates again,

(37:04):
we'll give each other medals or look a thousand plates. Joe.
I love this what you're saying, because that's exactly all
the things that my wife and I we did. And
I think lowering the expectation. And it's hard because I'm
a former professional athlete and you know, I do tend
to set the bar high because I've been trained that way.

(37:25):
Like you know, you want something, you gotta go for it.
But I think what happens is is that it not
only stresses my wife and I out, but I think
it stresses out the kids because there's certain things where
you just are not going to be able to do
and you have to do you do you want, But
you do understand what that mindset, which it's not a

(37:46):
weak it's not a weak it's not a weak mindset.
Because for me, hearing that and initially when you set
that lowering the bar as an athlete, I hear that,
and as a man, I hear that is Okay, I'm
giving my kids less. I'm not giving them the best.
I'm not pushing them to be the top. But if
you're actually saying to actually, if you lower that expectation
and you're not trying to throw so much on their plate,

(38:08):
you're able to get the most out of this entire
situation homing, you know, school, and it is being okay
with your best right. The reality is that we're in
an environment that is not conducive to us reaching what
we were before. So that's like somebody saying to you, hey, um,

(38:33):
you know, we're going to have an egg and spoon
race right now, and your legs are gonna be tight,
but hey, the rest won't be. You're like, well, how
am I going to compete and run as fast as
the rest? You know? And the reality is is that
you can't expect to be able to meet what you

(38:53):
did last year based on the confinement of what is
expected of you. Parents right now are expected to be
the puppeteer, the entertainer, the teacher, and the parent, and
at the same time, the person who you know is
working at home holding down enough dialogue to keep your

(39:16):
relationship together when you've already spoke four thousand words and
you're done. And on top of that, now let's talk
about redefining mascularity because you just spoke about being a
man and saying, I don't want to think that it's weak.
I need to remind myself that lawing my expectation is

(39:36):
not a weak thing as a man. And to me,
that talks to a bigger topic with respect to as
we are finding out more about ourselves and and the
strength that we have, and it is forcing us to
have communication that we can no longer use excuses for
as in, we're too busy at work, we don't have

(39:59):
time where passing ships. I've got to get to work.
I've got to stay longer. You know, well, schools doing this.
The a thousand excuses that I hear on a daily
basis been they've done it, I've tried everything, nothing works.
The I've tried everything, nothing works. Culture. On top of that,
this is a major breakthrough for men because women already

(40:20):
had that movement in the sixties. We already went from
apen string bearing children, cooking up big peach cobblifies to
we're in the workforce right and we're holding down careers
and earning money. And I think there's been a whole,
a whole level of movement with men over the last

(40:42):
not that long. I'm going to say maybe over the
last seven eight years, where we have men really growing
and processing what does it mean today to be a
man and redefined masculinity because it's not how we were
raised when we were younger and the models that we

(41:03):
saw from men when we were young boys, but it's
what's expected of us now as fathers, as husbands, and
how we sit comfortable with that so that we can
grow and be in in this mode that's not survival.
You know, I'm not the protector or the provider or um.

(41:26):
You know, the person who is even maybe now the
bread winner, but the person who is emotionally supportive, the
person who is is going to recognize that emotionally expressing
themselves and showing up with purple jobs rather than pink
and blue jobs in the house is about teamwork together
and it doesn't itself based on gender. Does that make

(41:49):
sense to you, Yeah, it does. But I want to
push back and have a conversation in regard to that,
because as you're talking about that purple, the pink and
blue coming together again. Coming from a you know, a
sports background, I realized the the importance of team, the
importance of having different roles as a quarterback. You know,

(42:10):
I was never a quarterback, but my quarterback, you know,
he gets the attention. He does all these I'm a
defensive lineman. We have two different jobs, but we're on
the same team. And I feel like, and correctly if
you think that this is wrong or if I'm off
chart here, but I feel like the purple mindset means
that it comes it stems from comparison. Well I'm doing this,

(42:32):
I'm doing that. I remember early in my marriage, my
wife was like, well, I'm at home doing this, that
and the other. And I'm saying, well, I'm at work
doing this, that and the other. And I was just like,
rather than comparing who's doing what and whose job is harder,
why don't we realize to be able to operate in
our strengths so that way we can service our family,
because that's the team unit. Because I think when I

(42:54):
try to do what my wife is doing, and if
I try to put the pressure for her to do
what I'm doing, I'm really taking away from what she
does best. She's taken away from like there's a there's
time to to make adjustments and change, say hey, look,
I need to lean in over here she might need
lean in on the other side. But I think when
you start making this making me into something that I'm not,

(43:14):
or making a man or a woman into something that
they're not, and we're all designed differently, so it could
be reversed. So this it could be the woman is
the breadwin and the man is to stay at home.
So it has nothing to do with who's doing what
as much as respecting what they do for the team.
Does that make sense because purple, don't you think purple
is saying that essentially you're cutting yourself fifty fifty for

(43:37):
moos like you need to be doing that some of
that and you need to be just so and boom
there you go. Now, no, there are two different things.
So so you and your partner have have the strength
that you're good at, right, all the things that you
love to do and the things that you're really good
good at. Don't fix it. It's not broken. It's what
you love to do. It's what your best. That you
work that out between the pair of you, that makes

(43:59):
you instinct it together. Then there then there are the
overall tasks, jobs, house chores that need to get done,
and that incorporates work as well. As how you're raising
the children and being productive with them. And this is
a time now where it's not defined by gender, like

(44:23):
while it's the man's job to do that or it's
the woman's job to do that, it's a moment of
recognizing that it's a job and it needs to get done.
So if you've worked out what your strengths are and
where you are in sync, because it's just a given right,
then the purple jobs become tasks that need to get

(44:45):
done that do not identify themselves as a woman's role
or a man's role. And I'll give you an example
right now, because this is what I have been dealing
with a lot across America. We've just currently, you know,
because of COVID finished filming Supernanny, and I was helping
a family where the father was the breadwinner. And this

(45:09):
family or an Instagram family where they make their money
from sponsors, you know, and they tell their family story
and the mother generated a demographic that brought a lot
of interest in sponsorship. So they worked out together. But
it would make sense that he was at home raising
the kids and that she was at work going into

(45:30):
a space where she could do her work. However, they
had major internal conflict as a couple because in his
mind he felt that he brought nothing and had no
value because how he had been raised was the value
himself based on what he could bring in monetary and

(45:51):
that money and that is what men are going through
right now as well, is the recognized is recognizing that
it has shifted over the years into a space that
men are learning to value themselves not just based on
whether they bring it in money or protect or provide,

(46:14):
but the emotional intelligence of how they are productive fathers
and husbands and the team, what that they bring in
and not babysitting the kids. No, you're raising your kids.
You're not babysitting your own children. You're raising your children.
You are as valuable and as instrumental in their lives

(46:37):
as their mother. You know, are we erasing some of
the paternal instincts because I've heard you said a couple
of times, um, you know, protector provider. I find that
that is a a paternal in my opinion. I'm sure
somebody will blast me about this, but in my opinion,
I think that that's a paternal instinct. Like I'll never

(46:59):
forget what my wife to me that we were pregnant,
that she was pregnant with our twins. Um, the first
thing my brain went to was, Okay, how much am
I gonna need to work? How am I going to
protect them? And like my brain just she's thinking about something.
She's thinking about what why am I forgetting this in
a couple of years and that was eight years since
we baby, when they nesting, he's thinking about what was

(47:22):
gonna look like? And this was all natural, no judgment,
like that was her thing. And I think that somehow,
you know, I think some of the conversations get into
almost and I've had these conversations with a lot of
my men, my guy friends, and that you know, you
almost start to feel bad for having a protective mindset
or a provider mindset, like that's not a good thing.

(47:43):
Like and again I think it comes from a comparison thing.
But like you said, no, no, nobody should, you know,
nobody should feel bad for that. That's like saying that's
like saying a single, a single fun other raising his
children should feel bad because he does what might be

(48:06):
seen as a feminine energy, right or maternal energy with
his children. Right. We're now we're now come into a
space where men are expressing themselves emotionally more. We are
understanding importance of men not raising their boys just to

(48:26):
play the dumper trucks and trains, But do I actually
push a baby around and make home right? And I
think that's really important. I also think it's incredibly important
in different cultures as well as an African American men,
I think that's important. You know, I'm married to an
African American man, you know, and when I look at

(48:46):
the culture and you know, how he was raised and
his father and I, you know, and I talked to
the black community, I think there's there's much growth there
as well, and understanding that actually, you know, men are
breaking through in many wonderful ways that they can still
own how they feel innately to provide a place what

(49:10):
was wired, but to also encourage, you know, their young
boys to know that they will brought up to be men,
who will be feminists, who will who will have compassion
and um certainly this caring side of them that is
shown from a very a very young age. Because toys

(49:32):
are toys and they're not boys or girls. Boy can
push a baby around in a in a pram and
play home and make home and not be seen as
it's something that is a girl thing to do. Keep it,
let me keep it real with you. I tend to
and I'm just going again, I'm sure people will blast

(49:53):
me on this. Always preface these things because social media
will just go the I can't believe you're such a better.
I don't let my son in that manner, like if
he picks up like he's got you know, two sisters, right,
I mean he'll play, you know, my play with his
sister or whatever. But I won't let my son push
around it all. And uh, you know, I play because

(50:13):
to me, I think that there's more of an emphasis
on And I had these conversations where somehow the man
has to kind of move in the direction of and
I'm putting in an air quotes here, move towards more
of the feminine quality. Um. And again I put that
in air quotes, um, whereas it's not the same really
on the other end, it's not the reverse like that's

(50:36):
kind of more seen as a pushback if you know,
you were to reverse that and going, hey, it should
be more this way. And I just think that there's
there's things emasculating a man and if that if that
term really exists like, he has to show more feminine qualities,
He has to be more understanding, he has to be
like you. You you've kind of tapped on it where

(50:56):
you know his emotional intelligence, but is the underlying there
he's emotionally growing, meaning that what like meaning he's there
is there is a there's enough scientific data as well
as through experiments, social experiments that show that if children

(51:17):
both sexes are encouraged to just see toys as toys
and play home and make home, it doesn't it doesn't
hinder a boy's a boy's temperament or what their DNA
is if they're competitive, that's about temperament. If you have

(51:40):
a competitive temperament, or if you have you know, the
DNA of you know, your mother or your father, meaning
you'll say, well, you're like your father because you know
he shows characteristic traits that way, that's DNA. But how
we how we shape and teach Emperor Fee is through

(52:01):
showing kindness and care, and that has been seen predominantly
as a feminine energy, as something that little girls should do.
If we can raise our boys to have both, then
we will raise them to become young men who will,
you know, put themselves in other people's shoes, who will
be more empathetic. That won't take away competitiveness at all,

(52:23):
you know, or the or the or the need and
the drive to be motivated to be successful in whatever
you do. But it does instill empathy, and we all
need more empathy in this world. It also teaches young
boys to express more, to be you'll eat or anything
like that, you know, but to look, we're going through
a mental health stigma right now. We know suicide is

(52:46):
really high amongst young men, and fathers find it really difficult,
even though we're seeing progress now to be able to
turn around and say to their sports chump, hey boy,
I just I spent all day crying last night because
my wife said something that really made me think about something,
and because they're all thinking. But then you're gonna look

(53:08):
at him and go like, what's that. We're here, right,
We're gonna bread for that to be okay. And I'm
an emotional guy and I've had conversations with my wife
where you know, like I will you know, and and
again this is conversations that you hear all the time,
Like if I'm more expressive about my emotional state, it

(53:29):
sometimes may not carry overwell, and I've heard from a
lot of my guy friends like how much conflict that
causes in the house, Like the woman has the ability
to be more expressive about her feelings, um, and the
man is supposed to listen, be more empathic, whereas when
it's reversed, it's going And I think that's part of

(53:49):
the conditioning and how you know we we were raised
is when you know again just from some of the
conversations that I've had that when the man is expressive,
it's it's like ho ho, hold on, like almost like
there's not enough room for and what you know, like
that I have to be the emotional one. You have

(54:09):
to listen and then everything else you just need you
need to just process that yourself because you're a man,
you're not supposed to have those feelings. But guess what happens.
Then women have work to do. Then women have much
work to do to bring men into a space of
recognizing that vulnerability is not weakness. You emotionally feeling how

(54:31):
you feel will only create more emotional more emotional intimacy.
Women can't have it both ways. They can't turn around
and say, well, we we don't want you to feel
or please don't share it with us. You want, we
want you to fix things and to get the job done.
But at the end of the day, hey, I'm feeling
like we're a bit distant. I'm feeling like emotionally you

(54:53):
don't you don't say anything, you don't get me, you
don't talk and say anything. You can't have it both ways,
you know, think it's important for women to understand that
if you want emotional intimacy with your man, and I'm
not talking about sexual, I'm talking about on an emotional
intimate level where you feel heard, where you feel but

(55:14):
you have the trust where you can truly talk to
one another about how each other a feeling. Because men
need that too. Then you've got to do a lot
of guys saying A lot of my guys wouldn't say that.
They don't go there. You know, there's this old idea
that men are you know, they don't talk much and
they don't say much, and a lot of it has

(55:34):
to be comes from the ideas like they want to.
But the minute they start speaking, that's when the biggest
eruption happened in the household. That's when a lot of
the confusion and the argument happened is when they feel
like if I speak up on this, she's going to
take it as personal, like it's a personal thing. But
when she speaks, it's more or less like I have

(55:56):
to listen. I have to be you know, I have
to fix it. I have to you know, recognize my actions.
And that's it, Like that's, oh, that's a good husband.
He listened. But when when the husband speaks, then it's
just like how do we get around there? Because it's
like like I'm apprehensive to say anything because if I
say anything that I know is going to cause a problem.
Here's what I think the number one tip for that

(56:19):
communication is is to validate what you're here in First,
if your job is to listen from your wife, then listen,
and when you respond, validate mirror what you've heard. Mirror
what was said in that conversation so that your wife

(56:39):
feels heard that you heard what she said and validate that.
And once you have opened up the gate to mirror
what has been said, like I'm really sorry that you
feel that you you had so much on your shoulders
right now, because that must feel really heavy for you

(57:00):
and very tiring, and you have a long day because
you're raising the kids, you know, all day and doing
the teaching with them, and then you know you're getting
dinner ready tonight as well, So you know, I can
imagine how difficult that must feel for you, and I'm
really sorry you're feeling this way. You know, it's about listening,

(57:23):
mirroring what's being said, and then validating it. The straight away.
What happens is you the men you come from a
stance they're not defending, but truly listening, and your wife
will feel like you heard, and that will stop her
from having that sword and shield up. Because if a

(57:43):
woman talks to a man and he listens, and his
only response is the go to that defends himself rather
than to diffuse and to show that he truly did
hear from mirroring and then validating, then you're going to
have to few up with sword and shield, right Whereas
if the man can here validate and then defuse the circumstance,

(58:08):
because the woman will be like, huh, okay, he heard me,
you can then fal I would I would assume that
it's the reverse as well, because in that way, what
you're talking about totally agree with you, and that being
able to listen and understand that. But what happens when
the man identifies a problem because it's you know that

(58:29):
from where you're talking about, identifies that the woman will
automatically come up with it first, and then the man
is kind of reacting to what she's saying. But what
happens when a man wants to engage in a conversation
first and identify an issue where he's feeling something about
the relationship or whatever the problem might be, whether it's
back to school with the kids and how things are
moving in the house, Like, how does a man address

(58:51):
that without because most not most, I don't say that.
A lot of men a man well knowing that the
minute they say something is wrong, the woman might take
it as personal and saying I'm not good enough, I'm
not doing the you know, a good job, and then
it just kind of breaks away. Nothing. Nothing is wrong
that a man feels nothing. Number one. So if there

(59:13):
any women listening to this, you know, there is nothing
that a man can say if he's expressed in himself
that is wrong because it's how he feels and he
owns those feelings, and none of us are here to
be able to say I will minimize how a man
feels when he's expressing himself. If you've got to a
place where your man actually feels comfortable doing that, then

(59:36):
you're doing something right. However, what I will tell you
is what I will tell you in those circumstances is
the more we can practice as as couples, the more
we can practice in having conversation where we neutralize and
see it as each other looking at solution rather than

(59:59):
finger pointing right, the better the outcome. So I use,
for example, with couples, I've used a box. I literally
took objectively a box with plat parts and wrote them
down so that there was no tongue to be judged,
no eye contact or body language that could be mistewed

(01:00:20):
in any way, and that you simply wrote the problem
down and put it in the box. And twice a week.
That led to then three times a week that led
to the then four times you opened up the box
together and said, right, let's take a look at these
problems and let's look at how we're going to solve
them together. Because it's not just what you say, it's

(01:00:43):
how you say it, the delivery when you say it,
and it's also your body because that is your body
language in when and how you convey the message that
you want to put across to your partner. So if
you make an objective by putting those in a card together,

(01:01:03):
you both go right, let's take a look and see
what's in here, and let's work together to solve these issues.
You won't sue me if I decided to steal that
and use it in my household. I hope you do.
I hope you do. It's been very productive and it's
been very successful for a lot of couples to be

(01:01:25):
able to do that. And the fact is is once
you once you do that, it's not the box that's
the magic. It's the fact that you both came together
with an open heart of saying, look, there's no room
for ego here for me to feel slighted and to
get touchy and to take it personal. If we're to
resolve these issues together, then let's look at it together

(01:01:48):
and let's recognize that what's being said in a pragmatic
way is about how we solve the issues. That way,
you can take the ego out the room, because if
you're talking to somebody who's continuously feel inslighted or victimized,
or the tone that you said it or defensive, they're
just poison arrows in a marriage that leads to bitterness

(01:02:13):
and resentment. And that's a hard place to come back from.
And it's why we're seeing so many divorces right now.
I mean, that's what we're seeing a lot of divorces
right now. And I believe in the marriage, you know.
I believe in the institution of marriage, you know. And
I believe in the importance of you know, working things

(01:02:34):
through and that in a healthy way. Right That's not
to ignore or to tolerate abuse or any form of
toxic relationship, but I think it's about time these conversations
were happening in a very organic, consistent way. Look, we
saw Will Smith and Jada Pinkett bring on the Red

(01:02:56):
Table talk. How could you not love that? Oh my gosh, Okay,
don't even give me something. I don't want to pick
this too, you know what it was? Okay, let me
just say this please. I mean, I know the producers
said we're gonna wrap this up. Let me tell you
something that was so amazing because it was so transparent,
it was so real. You don't see anyone in Hollywood

(01:03:18):
giving that level or that that type of insight. Look,
and I'm sure there are a lot of people who've
got things to say in the judgment. But one of
my favorite things from that whole Things and there was
like bad Marriage for Life, kind of a playoff of
the Bad Boys for Life. I think what it is
to me what I heard when I heard that was
reasonable expectations. Look, marriage is hard as hell and things,

(01:03:42):
because I think what happens is there's this over sale
on the glamor and the beauty and the wedding and
the road and everything is perfect and when you get
into it, you're like, gosh, I've never I've not reached
this perfection or this I think it's learning how to
kind of like the show that I that I house
with American Injin Warriors. Just it's one obstacle after the
next obstacle. Yeah, and it's not happily ever after, it's

(01:04:05):
happily working on it happily. Come on, come on, Joe,
come on, come on, you're killing all right. Well, let
me tell you something. Look, I I could talk to
you for another hour. In fact, I'm gonna put you
on a jet from wherever you are, hopefully your local time,

(01:04:26):
and I'm going to bring you to my house and
you'll be the super Therapist and the Supernanny as well.
So I just want to thank you so much, um,
and and look and for all those listeners. If you
don't know Joe Frost, of course I think you already
do know her. But remember Supernanny returns to Lifetime on
September one. She's back in action. Joe Frost, thank you

(01:04:47):
so much. This has really been an eye opener. Um.
I've got a lot to digest. I've got a lot
to digest from what we just talked to here today,
So thank you so much. It mhm, well that was fun.
What a stack show we had today. We had Jerry O'Connor,

(01:05:08):
we had Alfonso Ribeiro and Joe Frost. Uh, so much
to digest from all of those conversations. I want to say,
first off, a big, big time thank you to both
Brooks and Gavin for and host How Men Think. I
hope you guys learned a lot, had a little bit
more of an inside is how men think, at least
how I think. But anyways, joining us for more shows

(01:05:32):
on how men think.