April 13, 2023 • 38 mins
Whether you’re a sports fanatic, or you’ve never stepped foot on a court or field—there’s a lot we can learn about citizening from the lens of coaches and athletes. To show us how sports can help us with teamwork, discipline, and a sense of play in our citizening efforts— Baratunde is joined by Steve Kerr, head coach of the NBA championship-winning Golden State Warriors and relentless advocate for gun violence prevention, along with Dr. Kensa Gunter, a clinical and sports psychologist, and Jamie Zaninovich, the Deputy Commissioner & COO of the Pac-12 Conference.
SHOW ACTIONS
Internally Reflect - How it feels to work with others
For those of you that played team sports, how did teamwork make you feel? What about teamwork was easy for you? What parts were challenging? Or if you didn’t play team sports, picture any other team you’ve been a part of in school or work. What personal benefits did you receive by coming together with others to work on something?
Be Informed - Sites to help you get going
Find the issue you’re passionate about and start learning! Go to howtocitizen.com and click on Let’s Start to get personalized results that will help you learn about issues you care about. Let curiosity guide you. Once you get your quiz results, let us know what you start learning!
If you are an athlete or coach, check out All Vote, No Play to find civic drills you can do together as a team.
Publicly Participate - Your presence has power
Bear witness by lending your presence and listening as another way to publicly participate. Join Baratunde as he practices publicly participating in this way. Find and attend a gathering in your community (council meeting, non-profit assembly, school board meeting, church potluck or other community forum) and simply be present and LISTEN.
SHOW NOTES
Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast!
Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show!
How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He’s also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet.
CREDITS
How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio and Layla Bina.
Special thanks to Lisa Kay Solomon, Coach Eric Reveno & D1 Ticker for inviting us to be part of this discussion and being great partners in citizening.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Connection between people is really a powerful force, whether it's
a force for winning basketball games or a force for
changing society. Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritune Day,
a podcast that reimagine citizen as a verb, not a
(00:22):
legal status. This season is all about how we practice democracy,
what can we get rid of, what can we invent,
and how do we change the culture of democracy itself.
We're leaving the theoretical clouds and hitting the ground with
inspiring examples of people and institutions that are showing us
new ways to govern ourselves. You know, since high school,
(00:48):
athletics have not been a driving force in my life,
not nearly as much as technology or politics. But as
a child, your boy was pretty into sports. We're talking
youth soccer, single season experiments in cross country, ouched and last,
swimming even shorter, and wrestling well that's a funny story
for another day. But I spent years on the track
(01:10):
and field team, very consistent. Shout out to coach Gold.
Once I was out of school, though, I drifted from
playing or even watching sports outside of championship games and
major events like the World Cup. I told myself I
was too busy for it and that it wasn't super
important to me. Instead, I'd obsess over to YouTube videos
(01:30):
comparing the latest electric vehicles or home studio setups, and
I'd click between the Washington Posts and the New York
Times and a thousand tweets in an attempt to read
all the articles on all the politics. But I've missed
being part of a team, the camaraderie, shared victory, shared losses,
(01:51):
fans doing the wave in the stands poorly. More than
the physicality of sports, I miss and respect its power
to help us consist instantly show up for something, to
build with others through relationships, and to use power for
a collective self interest victory playing as a team. I
(02:12):
missed that sports can provide a literal arena for us
to practice. How to Citizen, Yeah, I'm talking about practice.
I mean, listen, we're talking about practice now. The conversation
you're about to hear happen because of a collaboration between
this podcast How to Citizen and some folks in the NCAA,
the National Collegiate Athletics Association, who saw that connection between
(02:35):
athletics and citizening. College basketball coach Eric Revenue was fired
up after police killed George Floyd in twenty twenty, and
he wanted to do more to empower his players, so
we helped to lead an effort that became known as
the All Vote, No Play Pledge, where athletics take Election
(02:58):
Day off from practice or games so players can vote
and volunteer. Coach Rev later teamed up with designer and
educator Lisa K. Solomon of the Stanford d School, who
was also designing better ways to get young people engaged
in voting and civics more broadly, and we at How
the Citizen joined these two in their efforts to train
athletes to become active citizens. Our executive producer and my wife, Elizabeth,
(03:21):
led the collaboration on behalf of How the Citizen, and
we've developed a pilot program and curriculum with NC double
A coaches to translate their athletic coaching into citizen coaching.
So what does that backstory have to do with Golden
State Warriors coach Steve Kerr being in this episode title, Well,
Coach Rev and Lisa Kay brought a group together let's
(03:43):
call him a team to discuss why teaching civic culture
and citizening is vital for student athlete programs. The discussion
was hosted by D one Ticker, creators of the most
popular newsletter for college sports administrators, and they asked me
to model rated after what I heard. I know I
had to run tell you, and instead of telling you
(04:04):
about it, I figured I just let you hear it directly,
So you're gonna hear from three people BLUs me. Doctor
Kensea Gunter is a clinical and sports psychologist and mental
health expert who works with student and professional athletes. Jamie
Zaninovich is the Deputy Commissioner and COO of the PAC
twelve Conference, the Western US conference representing over twenty sports
(04:26):
at the collegiate D one level. And Steve Kerr is
Steve Kerr. Kerk shot from and that's my story in
and I'm sticking to it. I mean, head coach of
(04:48):
the NBA championship winning Golden State Warriors. He's won nine titles,
five as a player and four coaching the Warriors. As important, though,
is how he's used his platform repeatedly to stand up
for a future free of avoidable, nonsensical and deadly gun violence.
You've probably heard him going off in his press conferences.
(05:11):
I'm tired, I'm so tired of getting up here and
offering condolences too, to the devastated families that are out there.
I'm so tired of the excuse me, I'm sorry. I'm
tired of the moments of silence. Enough. There's fifty Senators
right now who refused to vote on HR eight, which
(05:34):
is a background check rule that the House passed a
couple of years ago. It's been sitting there for two years,
and there's a reason they won't vote on it to
hold on to power. Coach Kerr and I both lost
our fathers to gun violence, so his way of showing
up made it more personal, more emotional, more meaningful for
me to take part in the conversation too. So Doctor Kinson,
(05:56):
Gunter Jamie Zaninovich, and Coach Kerr on the trinsic connection
between sports and citizening after this break, what's up? I
am honored to be in this Brady bunch box. This
is like the opening of a wonderful joke. A sports psychologist,
a league commissioner, and a professional head coach walk into
(06:19):
a zoom room to have a conversation about athletics, civics,
and how to make teammates well beyond the field, the pool,
the arena, but in our society at large, building America's
teammates this idea of the principles of our podcast, that
we show up and participate, invest in relationships with ourselves
others in the planet, understand our power and how to
(06:41):
flex it, and doing that for our collective self interest,
not just our individual self interest. That is prealigned with
the best of athletics, the best of coaching. Was itian
just about physical performance, it's about team performance, it's about
collective benefit. It's about strength not just through force. So
thank the three of you for making this time to
(07:02):
be here today, and I want to start with each
of you one of the time understanding why you're here.
What do you see as the alignment between athletics and civics,
and what has brought to you to this conversation today.
Doctor KENSA Gunter, let's go, well, thank you so much,
Barren to today. It's a pleasure to be a part
of this conversation. And I'll just jump right in to
answer your question by trade. I am a clinical and
(07:24):
sports psychologist, and when you ask that question about what
is the intersection between civics and why is it important
to athletics, I think because at the root of who
is participating in both Our humans are people, right, and
so thinking about how we can engage and create environments
where there's a sense of belonging to use your word,
where there's the focus on the collective, I think that's
(07:45):
really important for us to think about. In sport historically
has been used as a platform by many to advocate
for issues around justice and injustice and equity, and I
think it's one of those rare places in society where
we see the value of team, we see the ben
a fit of coming together, and if we can take
the lessons that we learn in athletics and apply them
to the world at large, I think that really can
(08:06):
create again one of those environments where, like you said,
we're all teammates for one another. And so I think
really looking at the way in which the people who
participate in athletics and sports can teach us lessons about
how to participate and how to citizen is really a
huge place where that comes together and there's benefits to
our mental, emotional, and collective wellness when we think about
(08:27):
how we do this thing together again, whether it's civics
or whether it's sports, it's how we do life together,
and that I think is the bridge that connects the two.
How we do life together. That's a bumper sticker. That's
a call to action right there. Thank you so much,
doctor A Deputy Commissioner Jamie Zaninovich, can you answer the
same question, why are you here and what are you
(08:48):
seeing as a connection between athletics and civics? Yeah? Well,
first of all, thanks for having me. It's humbled to
be a part of this group for sure, and inspired
by your words and doctor Gunter's words. Listen, I think
there's two things for me. I've worked in college athletics
my whole life. I now work at the Pac twelve.
The reason I work in college athletics is because it
is about this co curricular activity, right, It's really about
(09:10):
what young people who come to us when they're eighteen
years old and spend four or five, sometimes six years
with us, how they can develop emotionally, socially, in other words, otherwise,
not just through the classroom, but in the fields of play,
in the swimming pool, on the track. The lessons that
they can learn being part of these teams, achieving, failing, struggling,
(09:31):
learning how to activate their voice, their passion and be
a teammate and be a citizen. I think it's incredibly powerful,
and as a result, you create these dynamics within these teams.
With the profile and the popularity now of college athletics,
where these student athletes now have incredible platforms and they
in the PAC twelve we encourage them to activate those platforms.
(09:52):
And we've seen that sort of across many sports and
our seven thousand athletes for years. You Know. The other
thing I would say is I'm very to be part
of the PAC twelve. We have a long tradition of
having game changers, right. You go back to Arthur Ashe,
you go back to Jackie Robinson. We have had athletes
in our conference that have been brave and forward thinking
(10:12):
and have had the courage to help change society through
their sport. And that's something that I think is incredibly powerful.
I think you've seen sport change society in so many
ways over time, and we should not lose that now
more than ever, with the hope that we need to
give the next generation, we all have a responsibility to
leverage what we do in my case and Steve's case
and others in sport to help change society or what
(10:35):
is our impact, What is our real legacy? Yeah, that
sport goes so much farther than just sport. We're having
this conversation about Serena Williams right now collectively, and that's
not just about tennis, right, It's about representation, power of health, equity,
so many different things connected to that tennis court. But
well beyond coach Steve Kerr in the house, man, I've
been trying to stay calm this whole time. I'm gonna
(10:56):
be very professional. Yeah, we got to doctor the commissioner. Man.
Come on now, hello, welcome, Thanks for having me, thank
you for being had with us here. And the same
question to you, what brings you here and what do
you see as the connection between athletics and cities? Well,
I may have another bumper stick sticker for you. You know,
(11:18):
I played for a couple of amazing coaches. Actually I
played for like five amazing coaches, but two of them
stand out in particular in terms of their ability to
connect life and basketball. And Phil Jackson used to have
a great saying he would tell us in Chicago. He said,
life is a metaphor for basketball, and basketball as a
(11:40):
metaphor for life. And I really connected to that, because
it's amazing how true that is. You know, when you're
on a really good team and you feel that sense
of community and you feel that connection, the team's better.
And when you translate that to life and you witness
something really beautiful, whether it's a classroom of students who
(12:03):
are really interactive and learning and from each other and
teaching each other and enjoying each other's company, or maybe
a thriving business or a panel of people talking and
really connecting, you can feel that a connection between people
is really a powerful force. Whether it's a force for
winning basketball games or a force for changing society, it's
(12:28):
that connection, that teamwork that ultimately creates what you're looking for.
So I think Phil was right. You know, basketball really
is a metaphor for life and for anybody who out
there who is actually coaching. One of the lessons that
I've really learned is that engaging your athletes in things
like civic responsibility is not just important in terms of
(12:51):
making the world a better place, but it's a pretty
powerful tool to make the team better too. Civics can
mean a lot of things, and one of pet peeves
is that it sometimes is whittled down solely to voting.
Voting is critical and essential, and so that's a part
of the puzzle. It also includes many other things, and
(13:11):
so inclusive of voting for anyone. And feel free to
cross talk with each other as you hear something that
may resonate from someone else. What have you seen in
your worlds of athletics, whether it's students who are your patients,
they're in your leagues, they're adults on your team right
now or in their journey to get to you to
where you are right now. What type of civic engagement,
(13:33):
what type of citizening are you seeing that it's deeply
connected to the world of athletics. Anybody can jump in first.
I mean, I guess I'll start. I'll go back to
twenty twenty in our conference, and what a dynamic time
after George Floyd headed to a pandemic. And one of
the things I think that was pretty incredible and dynamic
that we saw in the PAC twelve was just how
(13:54):
these young people, these eighteen to twenty one year olds
that are so incredible on the courts and also sort
of leadership roles, were inspiring We adults, right, it's really
not their job, but they were really grabbing their head coaches,
grabbing their assistant coaches and saying, hey, there's a march
in Boulder tonight. Hey there's a march in Berkeley tonight.
We're going get the team together. Let's wear our stuff.
(14:17):
To Steve's point, this is going to be a team
bonding exercise because it's going to be something that we
can do together that's going to have an impact on
something much bigger than all of us. It was incredibly
emotional because it really was sort of going back to
some of the real impactful sort of civil rights history
in this country where the young people were taking it
upon themselves, which again they shouldn't have to do, but
(14:39):
they were so inspired by their energy, and you know,
these athletes have this unique ability to, like Steve said,
bring people together and to lead as a collective in
a way that was really really powerful. So that's just
one thing that I remember from a couple of years ago,
and that's continued. I think we're pretty proud of our
programs in the Pact twelve that that activity is not
(14:59):
alt thanks to people like Coach Revenue and others. Naturally,
they've reminded everyone how to citizen that this should be
core to team building exercises and otherwise. So for me,
that was one thing that really kind of inspired me, honestly, Yeah,
I think so. I was trying to think through kind
of how I've seen a position, how I've seen this
civics and this activism, if you will, outside of voting,
(15:23):
And what comes to mind for me is the power
of sharing your story as a way of humanizing people. Right.
And we talk about understanding our power and understanding the
systems that we're in, but I also think a huge
piece of civics is trying to understand the people that
we're living alongside, right, and viewing them not just in
the context of what they do or what platform they
(15:45):
may hold. I really feel like trying to see them
as the people that they are, whether it's humanizing, this
conversation about civics humanizing the conversation about voting. Voting is
not just about going to the poll, but those votes
that you cast have very real implications for the lived
experience of people beyond that moment. And so as I
think about athletes who have worn certain phrases on the
(16:06):
back of their jerseys, if I think about the single
site experience and the bubble experience. If I think about
Black Lives Matter being written on the court for the
w NBA seasons, If I think about the ways in
which based in Atlanta, the Atlanta Dream were really instrumental
in one of our Congress votes here a few years ago,
right thinking about Reverend one up, And if I think
about the way in which people have activated in that
(16:28):
way but also demon strated activism by sharing more of
their story so that you get to know more of
who they are. And for me, again, the mental health
story has been one that's been really powerful. So I think, yes,
action around issues that are important, but also sharing more
of our story, humanizing us as people understanding the collective,
but also understanding the people that make up that collective.
(16:49):
I think that to me feels like a huge element
of the civics conversation. That's a really powerful reminded doctor
the humanity piece. I think you know, as much as
I can pick at this idea that it's more than
just voting. I also appreciate you reminding us it doesn't
always have to be kind of in the street activism either.
(17:11):
And I know a lot of us feel pressure when
we hear like participating your civic community and get involved.
It's like do I have to go on a march,
am I getting petition signed? And it can also be
from the mental health perspective. I'm thinking of some own
biles and the kind of leadership that it takes as
a high performance person to say I'm not down to
perform right now. And here's some of why health exactly
(17:35):
exactly and so not just performance right remind you there's
a person in there that we need to privilege and
value and honor honor in the person there. Coach Kur,
do you have anything to add in terms of some
things you've seen as how people are showing up more
actively in their civic lives. Yeah, I'm really struck by
what doctor Gunter talked about in terms of just being
(17:58):
human and being present. For so many athletes that they're
in the limelight, and you know, they want to make
sure they're using their name, using their words for a
good cause, but sometimes it's just being there listening. And
I had a really amazing experience with Steph and Clay
about quick Explainer Tune day for anyone who's not a
(18:20):
basketball nerd. Steph Curry and Clay Thompson are NBA players.
They played for Coach Curse team the Golden State Warriors,
and they're really really good at basketball and apparently citizening
amazing experience with Steph and Clay about three years ago.
(18:42):
It was just before the pandemic. And I do some
work with gun violence prevention and I have a good
friend in Oakland and Mike McBride, he's a pastor who
does amazing work, and I invited Steph and Clay to
come with me to one of the meetings that Pastor
McBride has every month in Oakland. And it was part
(19:03):
of this gun violence prevention program where everybody involved in
that community in Oakland, whether it's police, social workers, the mayor,
mayor Livy schaff was their pastors, gang members, everybody gathered
for this roundtable discussion that actually helped to limit gun
(19:28):
violence in Oakland. Really powerful program. Steph and Clay just came.
It didn't take part. They just observed and to watch
all of the people in that room see the look
on their face and for them to know that man
Steph and Clay her warriors, like these guys care, they
(19:49):
care about us. It was really powerful. There were no
cameras there. Nobody ever knew Steph and Clay were there,
So this wasn't about you know, some headline or like
showing who they was, just humanity and just being there
for people in the community who are either victims of
gun violence or people trying to limit gun violence. And
(20:09):
it was it was a really great reminder to me
of what doctor Gunter just mentioned. Just the humanity piece,
just connecting with your fellow human being, now powerful that
can be, especially for people who have that type of
power that you know Steph and Clay do, I mean
people in the limelight. They can really impact people just
(20:30):
by being there. But really we all can, you know,
just showing humanity to each other is just so so
crucial to anything that we're talking about. The willingness to
kind of learn in public and use the power of
your presence on behalf of someone, those combined are are
really powerful. I think. I know, I feel a lot
(20:51):
of pressure in the current moments, whether it's climate related,
race related politics, electoral politics, related LGBTQ issues, there's a
list that we often feel pressure to have a statement ready,
you know, what is your stance on how do you
feel about this position? And it's okay not to know,
you know, and to learn having the answers isn't the
(21:13):
point being curious? I think is a really essential value,
greater than having knowledge itself. After the break the risks
and rewards of speaking up, I'm curious about any of
the hard parts. And that can be interpreted in a
number of ways. What occurs to me is you've got
(21:36):
some public and outside pressure from the shut up and
dribble wing, right, why are you meddling and muddying and
these matters? Just perform? Do your thing. There's also the
challenge of fatigue and even backlash to a level of
activism and statement making by folks involved in athletics, and
the twenty twenty moment has passed in certain ways where
(21:59):
a lot of these companies needs are pulling back and
people are kind of retrenching. So maybe there's a fatigue challenge,
or maybe there's some other challenge in this work that
you've identified that what do you think people need to
know about what might be hard as you continue to
weave the athletics and active citizenship world together, A doctor gunt,
could you start us off with anything you might have
experienced or witness. It takes work, and it takes intentional effort, right, Like,
(22:23):
I think that's one of the things that sometimes is
hard because in the midst of all the other responsibilities
that we are trying to adhere to, in the midst
of trying to learn offenses and defenses and due strength
and win games and build team in our sport, in
addition to also living our personal lives. As we talk
about this how to be a citizen, it takes deliberate
(22:45):
effort and work to dedicate yourself to having a level
of humility that allows you to recognize there are multiple
truths that coexist in the world that we live in,
and trying to understand somebody else's experience takes intention, right,
Trying to educate your yourself about issues that you may
not be familiar with takes intention, That takes effort, and
(23:05):
so it's not just going to happen, right, But I
think that is a part of the hardness. In the
moments where we may feel more disconnected than we've ever felt,
In the moments where we may heal burned out, where
we may heal exhausted, it's important for us to take
care of ourselves. Let me be clear, right, we absolutely
need to do those things to try to restore ourselves
(23:26):
and replenish our energy. But it takes effort to be
in community, to value the collective. But ultimately we all
want to feel like we belong and so that level
of reciprocity, that level of us needing to be able
to give and to take, to show up and to listen,
to be present and to sometimes do all of that
(23:47):
takes work. And so I think the hard part is
this is not something that can happen separate from the
life you're living. This has to be integrated into the
life you live, and it takes effort, but the reward
can be tremendous. We want to close on those rewards
and I'll have to do a kind of lightning round.
Deputy Commissioner Jamie, do you have anything to add on
(24:09):
this one? Doctor Gunder's words really really struck me. I think,
you know, we don't always know what actions are the
right actions to take, but I think as leaders you
can always approach it with a vulnerability and a curiosity, right,
And I think it's really important. I think Coach Kurr
talked about this with the players. To say I don't know,
or just to start with emotions, say I'm scared, that
(24:30):
concerns me. I don't know what the action is, but
if we can open up the conversation by being vulnerable
people and being willing to learn, that opens up the
conversation from especially those in leadership positions like coaches. The
more vulnerable and authentic you're willing to be, and we're
seeing this in the next generation of athletes. I'm sure
Coach Kurrs as well. You have to do it that way.
You have to connect with them right, to motivate them
(24:51):
and to keep them bought into the team. So there's
an incentive system in that too. But I just think
this authenticity, this vulnerability, of this willingness to not know,
just opens up the door or for people to work
together instead of you know what, we've seen a lot
which is shutting down and people taking kind of bifurcated positions.
Coach Kerves, what's the hard part you've seen in intertwining
these kind of different parts of people's identity and to
(25:13):
anticipate where doctor Gunner was going to take us. What's
the reward? What makes it work? Yeah? Well, I think
what Jamie mentioned is so important, you know, the vulnerability
aspect of it, but the hard part of being vulnerable
is that we're living in an era where you know,
people are out there ready to pounce as soon as
you make a mistake. And that's that's what I've found,
(25:33):
you know, being in the in the public eye, I've
had to really make sure that I feel like I
have a good grasp on what I'm talking about, you know.
So I think it's important if you're going to be
involved in the community and involved in some kind of
you know, social change that you're looking for, find a passion,
find something that you're particularly interested in, and focus on
(25:55):
it and read about it and get to know your subject.
For me, that topic gun violence. I lost my dad
to gun violence when I was eighteen years old, and
so that issue is my passion and I've really had
to learn over really since i started talking about it publicly,
which started in about twenty sixteen. I think I've had
(26:18):
to learn a lot of things. You know, I made
a lot of mistakes just with my words and phrases.
For example, you know, if you want to try to
connect with people who are on the other side of
the gun issue, don't say gun control, you know, we
say gun violence prevention. It's an important distinction because if
you want to actually make a connection with people and
(26:40):
actually create progress, there's got to be common ground. And
I've got a dozen other things that I could say
in the same realm of expressions that I needed to learn,
things that I needed to learn, statistics that I had
to learn. But because it was a passion of mine,
I really wanted to learn, and I found great resources
(27:01):
to help me. And now I've really connected with some
of the gun violence prevention groups you know nationally, with
the Brady Center and Gifford's March for Our Lives. I've
learned so much from these people. But the reward has
been phenomenal. I've received letters and calls from high school students,
junior high school students thanking me for speaking up based
(27:24):
on what's happening around the country. It's incredibly inspiring to
learn and grow and meet like minded people and what
is really a nationwide movement to try to improve our society.
So I guess that's my thought. My advice is to
focus on something that you're passionate about, Otherwise you can get,
(27:45):
you know, sort of get yourself in a little bit
of trouble. But the rewards are really really impressive and satisfying.
We are always short on time and discussions like these,
doctor guns there, I want to give you an opportunity.
Any last thought that you want to share, I'll come
to you, Jamie, as well as you coach current. Then
I'll put a button on this and let us get
(28:06):
back to the rest of our days and our citizen
And go ahead, doctor. There are two things that came
to mind. And I've used this phrase now and a
lot of talks and presentations that I do, and I'm
sure it came from somebody much wiser than me, but
I'll share it. And it's We're human beings, not human doings, right,
And so as we think about civics, as we think
about team, as we think about community, as we think
about ourselves, it's really important for us to think about
(28:29):
how we show up and how we can be in
the world. And a just an equitable society is beneficial
for all of us. And again I have to take
it back to the mental health part, right, Like our
mental health is impacted by what happens in us, to
us and around us. So in addition to thinking about
the ways that we take care of ourselves, the ways
that we take care of each other. And the way
(28:51):
that we help to create systems that promote health and
wellness for the collective really creates a society that's better
for all of us. And so those are some of
the things that I think are important about this intersection
and how it intersects with life. Thank you for that, Jamie.
You know, again, working with young people like we do
in college sports, you know, I think there's really this
(29:12):
void of hope for the future for them, and I
really hope that our leadership, you know, and I think
that is affecting their mental health. We're hearing it stories
every day in terms of we're trying to load up
the services on campus. It's not just athletes, it's it's
college students more broadly and youth more generally. But there's
really this lack of hope because of sort of everything
that they're being bombarded with. And I hope as leaders
(29:32):
we can turn that around, and I think it will
lead to better mental health and lead to better the
reward will be a more just, comforting and supportive society
for all of us. It's a massive undertaking. But whether
it's climate change or social justice or otherwise, you know,
these kids are being bombarded and I hope we can
all step up and make a brighter future for them.
Related to that, I think coach kerb brought up something
really important, which is this notion of sort of talking
(29:54):
to the other side, right. I mean, we have people
that are so entrenched in their positions and we need
to find way, and his is a good example to
reach out and to speak to quote unquote the other
side and people that have different ideals and philosophies and
otherwise and come together in a way to determine this
brighter future for sort of the young people of tomorrow
who will lead us when we need their help. So
(30:15):
those are sort of my two takeaways Code Curve bring
us home. As Jamie said, our athletes, our students are
getting bombarded with bad news and the difficulty of living
modern life. As a result, it can cloud the picture.
You know, there's a sense that, oh, my gosh, the
world's in a terrible place. The world's actually in a
(30:36):
way better place than it was fifty years ago. There's
a lot of great things happening. There's a lot of
wonderful people doing amazing things. There's a lot of beauty
on earth. Yes, there are a lot of problems. But
we live in a time where it's media for profits.
It's just people trying to make money by sensationalizing everything,
which is terrible for our mental health. So how can
(30:56):
we help our students and our athletes and people around
us understand that? Pardon my French, but all that stuff
is bullshit, right, It really is. What matters is human
connection truth And how do you get to the truth.
It's it's through communication and respect and and interacting with
(31:17):
people in your community. But we've got to find a
way to lessen the mental impact of all this bombardment
of negativity and divisiveness that is in many ways created
just for profit in our world. Thank you for naming that.
Thank you all for this beautiful communication, very respectful. I
(31:41):
feel more connected to each of you in certain ways,
Coach Kurr. I didn't remember that about you. I lost
my father a gun violence when I was a child
as well, and so I'm feeling extra human with all
of you right now. Thank you for your vulnerability, your honesty,
and your reminders as I interpret it, that we're not alone.
You know, some of the weight that we've described, some
(32:01):
of the news pressures, some of the criticisms and expectations.
They weigh more heavily when we try to carry them
by ourselves. And the principle of sport, as well as
the principle of a democratic, small d society or any society,
really is that we're stronger together. Our health is improved
when we take it in a collective consideration and know
(32:22):
that we can't do any of these things all by ourselves.
That's really a tortuous and unhappy life. So thanks for
coming together to remind us that we can be better together.
Really appreciate all of your time here and certainly off screen.
Thank you wa. We moved fast through that. That was
(32:43):
one of the most efficient conversations I've been a part
of in a while. It makes me think and really
reminds me that there are so many ways to citizen.
There's so many on ramps to having us create a
culture we're caring about and fighting for our communities, and
our democracy is actually exciting and cool and inviting. And
(33:04):
I am clearly not the dude out there always talking
about sports, but I'm aware enough to know that billions
of people are deeply connected to them and the sense
of belonging they provide that team's spirit extends well beyond
the players, into the stands, into the living rooms. So
the more things we can connect to this idea of
(33:25):
citizen as a verb that people are already connected to,
I say use it because that's more likely to help
us create the culture and society we want to live in.
Ergo Therefore, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, whatever it takes
to help us learn, to help us practice. Yeah, I'm
(33:47):
talking about practice. Listen, We're talking about practice. A huge
thank you to doctor KENSA Gunser, Jamie Zaninovich, and coach
Kerr for their ongoing work and for sharing their wisdom. Also, again,
big thanks to Lisa Kay Solomon and coach Eric Revenoe
(34:10):
for inviting us to be a part of this discussion
and for being great partners in citizening. As always, we've
got some specific actions you can take after listening to
this episode that fall into three categories reflection, learning, and
public participation. So go on build on the momentum you
feel after listening to these incredible people. Our suggestions for
(34:31):
internal reflection are inspired by doctor kinseb Gunter. For those
of you that played sports, how did belonging to a
team make you feel? What about teamwork was easy for you?
What about it was hard? And if you weren't into sports,
hello picture any other team you've been a part of,
whether it's school, or work or somewhere in between. What
(34:52):
personal benefits that you receive by coming together with others
to work on something. Now, when terms of getting more informed,
we got a simple recommend to go to our website
how does citizen dot com because we've designed a quiz
just for you. It's called what makes You Citizen and
we built it to help you figure out what topics
or issues you're most interested in. So take the quiz
(35:13):
and once you get your results, we've got episodes you
can listen to, and books and articles to read to
get you started. For our final action recommendation, I invite
you to join me in attending a gathering in your community.
I'm not showing up to your community. I'm showing up
in mind. But think about a council meeting, a nonprofit assembly,
a school board meeting, a church pot luck, any kind
(35:35):
of community forum to simply be present and listen. I'm
going to find one in my neighborhood in Highland Park,
Los Angeles. These neighborhood council meetings have been on my
list for a long time, so I'm going to do it,
and then I'm going to report back on the how
does Citizen Instagram at how to Citizen and share with
you what I learned, not what I said, what I learned.
(35:59):
As always, we'd love to hear from you about your
experiences taking any of the actions after listening to an episode.
Did you discover a cause for the first time driven
by your passion? Did you join me in attending a
community gathering just to bear witness? Tag or DMUs on
Instagram at how to Citizen, And if you don't do
the social media thing, we got you, you can also
(36:22):
just email us comments at how to citizen dot com.
We may even ask to share your story with our listeners.
If you take any of these actions, please brag about
it online and use the hashtag how to Citizen. Also
tag our Instagram how to Citizen. I am always online
and I really do see your messages, so send them.
(36:43):
You can also visit our website, how to citizen dot com,
which has all of our shows, full transcripts, actions and more.
How to Citizen with barrettun Day as a production of
iHeartRadio podcasts and Row Home Productions. Our executive producers are
Me barrettun Day Thirsty, and Elizabeth Stewart. Our lead producer
(37:03):
is Ali Graham, Our associate producer is Danya abdel Hamid.
Alex Lewis is our managing producer, and John Myers is
our executive editor and mixed engineer. Original music by Andrew
Eapen with additional music by Blue Dot Sessions. Special thanks
to Joel Smith from iHeart Radio and lay Labina. Next
(37:31):
time on how the Citizen we go to Paris really
every three weeks, we have a big happening in front
of the Lloyd's Marketplace. They had one hundred and fifty
den Sels who came and did a show of I
forgot her name, chim Chimney him Mary pops okay, And
so they did because the story of bankers being sad.
Because so they had one hundred and fifty bankers with
(37:53):
fake fake Mary. Path to the Future Insures product Come
back to hear my conversation with Christian vunny Zette about
organizing volunteers into activists and bringing joy, dance parties and
innovation to the fight for climate justice. Row Home Productions
Connection between people is really a powerful force, whether it's
a force for winning basketball games or a force for
changing society. Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritune Day,
a podcast that reimagine citizen as a verb, not a
(00:22):
legal status. This season is all about how we practice democracy,
what can we get rid of, what can we invent,
and how do we change the culture of democracy itself.
We're leaving the theoretical clouds and hitting the ground with
inspiring examples of people and institutions that are showing us
new ways to govern ourselves. You know, since high school,
(00:48):
athletics have not been a driving force in my life,
not nearly as much as technology or politics. But as
a child, your boy was pretty into sports. We're talking
youth soccer, single season experiments in cross country, ouched and last,
swimming even shorter, and wrestling well that's a funny story
for another day. But I spent years on the track
(01:10):
and field team, very consistent. Shout out to coach Gold.
Once I was out of school, though, I drifted from
playing or even watching sports outside of championship games and
major events like the World Cup. I told myself I
was too busy for it and that it wasn't super
important to me. Instead, I'd obsess over to YouTube videos
(01:30):
comparing the latest electric vehicles or home studio setups, and
I'd click between the Washington Posts and the New York
Times and a thousand tweets in an attempt to read
all the articles on all the politics. But I've missed
being part of a team, the camaraderie, shared victory, shared losses,
(01:51):
fans doing the wave in the stands poorly. More than
the physicality of sports, I miss and respect its power
to help us consist instantly show up for something, to
build with others through relationships, and to use power for
a collective self interest victory playing as a team. I
(02:12):
missed that sports can provide a literal arena for us
to practice. How to Citizen, Yeah, I'm talking about practice.
I mean, listen, we're talking about practice now. The conversation
you're about to hear happen because of a collaboration between
this podcast How to Citizen and some folks in the NCAA,
the National Collegiate Athletics Association, who saw that connection between
(02:35):
athletics and citizening. College basketball coach Eric Revenue was fired
up after police killed George Floyd in twenty twenty, and
he wanted to do more to empower his players, so
we helped to lead an effort that became known as
the All Vote, No Play Pledge, where athletics take Election
(02:58):
Day off from practice or games so players can vote
and volunteer. Coach Rev later teamed up with designer and
educator Lisa K. Solomon of the Stanford d School, who
was also designing better ways to get young people engaged
in voting and civics more broadly, and we at How
the Citizen joined these two in their efforts to train
athletes to become active citizens. Our executive producer and my wife, Elizabeth,
(03:21):
led the collaboration on behalf of How the Citizen, and
we've developed a pilot program and curriculum with NC double
A coaches to translate their athletic coaching into citizen coaching.
So what does that backstory have to do with Golden
State Warriors coach Steve Kerr being in this episode title, Well,
Coach Rev and Lisa Kay brought a group together let's
(03:43):
call him a team to discuss why teaching civic culture
and citizening is vital for student athlete programs. The discussion
was hosted by D one Ticker, creators of the most
popular newsletter for college sports administrators, and they asked me
to model rated after what I heard. I know I
had to run tell you, and instead of telling you
(04:04):
about it, I figured I just let you hear it directly,
So you're gonna hear from three people BLUs me. Doctor
Kensea Gunter is a clinical and sports psychologist and mental
health expert who works with student and professional athletes. Jamie
Zaninovich is the Deputy Commissioner and COO of the PAC
twelve Conference, the Western US conference representing over twenty sports
(04:26):
at the collegiate D one level. And Steve Kerr is
Steve Kerr. Kerk shot from and that's my story in
and I'm sticking to it. I mean, head coach of
(04:48):
the NBA championship winning Golden State Warriors. He's won nine titles,
five as a player and four coaching the Warriors. As important, though,
is how he's used his platform repeatedly to stand up
for a future free of avoidable, nonsensical and deadly gun violence.
You've probably heard him going off in his press conferences.
(05:11):
I'm tired, I'm so tired of getting up here and
offering condolences too, to the devastated families that are out there.
I'm so tired of the excuse me, I'm sorry. I'm
tired of the moments of silence. Enough. There's fifty Senators
right now who refused to vote on HR eight, which
(05:34):
is a background check rule that the House passed a
couple of years ago. It's been sitting there for two years,
and there's a reason they won't vote on it to
hold on to power. Coach Kerr and I both lost
our fathers to gun violence, so his way of showing
up made it more personal, more emotional, more meaningful for
me to take part in the conversation too. So Doctor Kinson,
(05:56):
Gunter Jamie Zaninovich, and Coach Kerr on the trinsic connection
between sports and citizening after this break, what's up? I
am honored to be in this Brady bunch box. This
is like the opening of a wonderful joke. A sports psychologist,
a league commissioner, and a professional head coach walk into
(06:19):
a zoom room to have a conversation about athletics, civics,
and how to make teammates well beyond the field, the pool,
the arena, but in our society at large, building America's
teammates this idea of the principles of our podcast, that
we show up and participate, invest in relationships with ourselves
others in the planet, understand our power and how to
(06:41):
flex it, and doing that for our collective self interest,
not just our individual self interest. That is prealigned with
the best of athletics, the best of coaching. Was itian
just about physical performance, it's about team performance, it's about
collective benefit. It's about strength not just through force. So
thank the three of you for making this time to
(07:02):
be here today, and I want to start with each
of you one of the time understanding why you're here.
What do you see as the alignment between athletics and civics,
and what has brought to you to this conversation today.
Doctor KENSA Gunter, let's go, well, thank you so much,
Barren to today. It's a pleasure to be a part
of this conversation. And I'll just jump right in to
answer your question by trade. I am a clinical and
(07:24):
sports psychologist, and when you ask that question about what
is the intersection between civics and why is it important
to athletics, I think because at the root of who
is participating in both Our humans are people, right, and
so thinking about how we can engage and create environments
where there's a sense of belonging to use your word,
where there's the focus on the collective, I think that's
(07:45):
really important for us to think about. In sport historically
has been used as a platform by many to advocate
for issues around justice and injustice and equity, and I
think it's one of those rare places in society where
we see the value of team, we see the ben
a fit of coming together, and if we can take
the lessons that we learn in athletics and apply them
to the world at large, I think that really can
(08:06):
create again one of those environments where, like you said,
we're all teammates for one another. And so I think
really looking at the way in which the people who
participate in athletics and sports can teach us lessons about
how to participate and how to citizen is really a
huge place where that comes together and there's benefits to
our mental, emotional, and collective wellness when we think about
(08:27):
how we do this thing together again, whether it's civics
or whether it's sports, it's how we do life together,
and that I think is the bridge that connects the two.
How we do life together. That's a bumper sticker. That's
a call to action right there. Thank you so much,
doctor A Deputy Commissioner Jamie Zaninovich, can you answer the
same question, why are you here and what are you
(08:48):
seeing as a connection between athletics and civics? Yeah? Well,
first of all, thanks for having me. It's humbled to
be a part of this group for sure, and inspired
by your words and doctor Gunter's words. Listen, I think
there's two things for me. I've worked in college athletics
my whole life. I now work at the Pac twelve.
The reason I work in college athletics is because it
is about this co curricular activity, right, It's really about
(09:10):
what young people who come to us when they're eighteen
years old and spend four or five, sometimes six years
with us, how they can develop emotionally, socially, in other words, otherwise,
not just through the classroom, but in the fields of play,
in the swimming pool, on the track. The lessons that
they can learn being part of these teams, achieving, failing, struggling,
(09:31):
learning how to activate their voice, their passion and be
a teammate and be a citizen. I think it's incredibly powerful,
and as a result, you create these dynamics within these teams.
With the profile and the popularity now of college athletics,
where these student athletes now have incredible platforms and they
in the PAC twelve we encourage them to activate those platforms.
(09:52):
And we've seen that sort of across many sports and
our seven thousand athletes for years. You Know. The other
thing I would say is I'm very to be part
of the PAC twelve. We have a long tradition of
having game changers, right. You go back to Arthur Ashe,
you go back to Jackie Robinson. We have had athletes
in our conference that have been brave and forward thinking
(10:12):
and have had the courage to help change society through
their sport. And that's something that I think is incredibly powerful.
I think you've seen sport change society in so many
ways over time, and we should not lose that now
more than ever, with the hope that we need to
give the next generation, we all have a responsibility to
leverage what we do in my case and Steve's case
and others in sport to help change society or what
(10:35):
is our impact, What is our real legacy? Yeah, that
sport goes so much farther than just sport. We're having
this conversation about Serena Williams right now collectively, and that's
not just about tennis, right, It's about representation, power of health, equity,
so many different things connected to that tennis court. But
well beyond coach Steve Kerr in the house, man, I've
been trying to stay calm this whole time. I'm gonna
(10:56):
be very professional. Yeah, we got to doctor the commissioner. Man.
Come on now, hello, welcome, Thanks for having me, thank
you for being had with us here. And the same
question to you, what brings you here and what do
you see as the connection between athletics and cities? Well,
I may have another bumper stick sticker for you. You know,
(11:18):
I played for a couple of amazing coaches. Actually I
played for like five amazing coaches, but two of them
stand out in particular in terms of their ability to
connect life and basketball. And Phil Jackson used to have
a great saying he would tell us in Chicago. He said,
life is a metaphor for basketball, and basketball as a
(11:40):
metaphor for life. And I really connected to that, because
it's amazing how true that is. You know, when you're
on a really good team and you feel that sense
of community and you feel that connection, the team's better.
And when you translate that to life and you witness
something really beautiful, whether it's a classroom of students who
(12:03):
are really interactive and learning and from each other and
teaching each other and enjoying each other's company, or maybe
a thriving business or a panel of people talking and
really connecting, you can feel that a connection between people
is really a powerful force. Whether it's a force for
winning basketball games or a force for changing society, it's
(12:28):
that connection, that teamwork that ultimately creates what you're looking for.
So I think Phil was right. You know, basketball really
is a metaphor for life and for anybody who out
there who is actually coaching. One of the lessons that
I've really learned is that engaging your athletes in things
like civic responsibility is not just important in terms of
(12:51):
making the world a better place, but it's a pretty
powerful tool to make the team better too. Civics can
mean a lot of things, and one of pet peeves
is that it sometimes is whittled down solely to voting.
Voting is critical and essential, and so that's a part
of the puzzle. It also includes many other things, and
(13:11):
so inclusive of voting for anyone. And feel free to
cross talk with each other as you hear something that
may resonate from someone else. What have you seen in
your worlds of athletics, whether it's students who are your patients,
they're in your leagues, they're adults on your team right
now or in their journey to get to you to
where you are right now. What type of civic engagement,
(13:33):
what type of citizening are you seeing that it's deeply
connected to the world of athletics. Anybody can jump in first.
I mean, I guess I'll start. I'll go back to
twenty twenty in our conference, and what a dynamic time
after George Floyd headed to a pandemic. And one of
the things I think that was pretty incredible and dynamic
that we saw in the PAC twelve was just how
(13:54):
these young people, these eighteen to twenty one year olds
that are so incredible on the courts and also sort
of leadership roles, were inspiring We adults, right, it's really
not their job, but they were really grabbing their head coaches,
grabbing their assistant coaches and saying, hey, there's a march
in Boulder tonight. Hey there's a march in Berkeley tonight.
We're going get the team together. Let's wear our stuff.
(14:17):
To Steve's point, this is going to be a team
bonding exercise because it's going to be something that we
can do together that's going to have an impact on
something much bigger than all of us. It was incredibly
emotional because it really was sort of going back to
some of the real impactful sort of civil rights history
in this country where the young people were taking it
upon themselves, which again they shouldn't have to do, but
(14:39):
they were so inspired by their energy, and you know,
these athletes have this unique ability to, like Steve said,
bring people together and to lead as a collective in
a way that was really really powerful. So that's just
one thing that I remember from a couple of years ago,
and that's continued. I think we're pretty proud of our
programs in the Pact twelve that that activity is not
(14:59):
alt thanks to people like Coach Revenue and others. Naturally,
they've reminded everyone how to citizen that this should be
core to team building exercises and otherwise. So for me,
that was one thing that really kind of inspired me, honestly, Yeah,
I think so. I was trying to think through kind
of how I've seen a position, how I've seen this
civics and this activism, if you will, outside of voting,
(15:23):
And what comes to mind for me is the power
of sharing your story as a way of humanizing people. Right.
And we talk about understanding our power and understanding the
systems that we're in, but I also think a huge
piece of civics is trying to understand the people that
we're living alongside, right, and viewing them not just in
the context of what they do or what platform they
(15:45):
may hold. I really feel like trying to see them
as the people that they are, whether it's humanizing, this
conversation about civics humanizing the conversation about voting. Voting is
not just about going to the poll, but those votes
that you cast have very real implications for the lived
experience of people beyond that moment. And so as I
think about athletes who have worn certain phrases on the
(16:06):
back of their jerseys, if I think about the single
site experience and the bubble experience. If I think about
Black Lives Matter being written on the court for the
w NBA seasons, If I think about the ways in
which based in Atlanta, the Atlanta Dream were really instrumental
in one of our Congress votes here a few years ago,
right thinking about Reverend one up, And if I think
about the way in which people have activated in that
(16:28):
way but also demon strated activism by sharing more of
their story so that you get to know more of
who they are. And for me, again, the mental health
story has been one that's been really powerful. So I think, yes,
action around issues that are important, but also sharing more
of our story, humanizing us as people understanding the collective,
but also understanding the people that make up that collective.
(16:49):
I think that to me feels like a huge element
of the civics conversation. That's a really powerful reminded doctor
the humanity piece. I think you know, as much as
I can pick at this idea that it's more than
just voting. I also appreciate you reminding us it doesn't
always have to be kind of in the street activism either.
(17:11):
And I know a lot of us feel pressure when
we hear like participating your civic community and get involved.
It's like do I have to go on a march,
am I getting petition signed? And it can also be
from the mental health perspective. I'm thinking of some own
biles and the kind of leadership that it takes as
a high performance person to say I'm not down to
perform right now. And here's some of why health exactly
(17:35):
exactly and so not just performance right remind you there's
a person in there that we need to privilege and
value and honor honor in the person there. Coach Kur,
do you have anything to add in terms of some
things you've seen as how people are showing up more
actively in their civic lives. Yeah, I'm really struck by
what doctor Gunter talked about in terms of just being
(17:58):
human and being present. For so many athletes that they're
in the limelight, and you know, they want to make
sure they're using their name, using their words for a
good cause, but sometimes it's just being there listening. And
I had a really amazing experience with Steph and Clay
about quick Explainer Tune day for anyone who's not a
(18:20):
basketball nerd. Steph Curry and Clay Thompson are NBA players.
They played for Coach Curse team the Golden State Warriors,
and they're really really good at basketball and apparently citizening
amazing experience with Steph and Clay about three years ago.
(18:42):
It was just before the pandemic. And I do some
work with gun violence prevention and I have a good
friend in Oakland and Mike McBride, he's a pastor who
does amazing work, and I invited Steph and Clay to
come with me to one of the meetings that Pastor
McBride has every month in Oakland. And it was part
(19:03):
of this gun violence prevention program where everybody involved in
that community in Oakland, whether it's police, social workers, the mayor,
mayor Livy schaff was their pastors, gang members, everybody gathered
for this roundtable discussion that actually helped to limit gun
(19:28):
violence in Oakland. Really powerful program. Steph and Clay just came.
It didn't take part. They just observed and to watch
all of the people in that room see the look
on their face and for them to know that man
Steph and Clay her warriors, like these guys care, they
(19:49):
care about us. It was really powerful. There were no
cameras there. Nobody ever knew Steph and Clay were there,
So this wasn't about you know, some headline or like
showing who they was, just humanity and just being there
for people in the community who are either victims of
gun violence or people trying to limit gun violence. And
(20:09):
it was it was a really great reminder to me
of what doctor Gunter just mentioned. Just the humanity piece,
just connecting with your fellow human being, now powerful that
can be, especially for people who have that type of
power that you know Steph and Clay do, I mean
people in the limelight. They can really impact people just
(20:30):
by being there. But really we all can, you know,
just showing humanity to each other is just so so
crucial to anything that we're talking about. The willingness to
kind of learn in public and use the power of
your presence on behalf of someone, those combined are are
really powerful. I think. I know, I feel a lot
(20:51):
of pressure in the current moments, whether it's climate related,
race related politics, electoral politics, related LGBTQ issues, there's a
list that we often feel pressure to have a statement ready,
you know, what is your stance on how do you
feel about this position? And it's okay not to know,
you know, and to learn having the answers isn't the
(21:13):
point being curious? I think is a really essential value,
greater than having knowledge itself. After the break the risks
and rewards of speaking up, I'm curious about any of
the hard parts. And that can be interpreted in a
number of ways. What occurs to me is you've got
(21:36):
some public and outside pressure from the shut up and
dribble wing, right, why are you meddling and muddying and
these matters? Just perform? Do your thing. There's also the
challenge of fatigue and even backlash to a level of
activism and statement making by folks involved in athletics, and
the twenty twenty moment has passed in certain ways where
(21:59):
a lot of these companies needs are pulling back and
people are kind of retrenching. So maybe there's a fatigue challenge,
or maybe there's some other challenge in this work that
you've identified that what do you think people need to
know about what might be hard as you continue to
weave the athletics and active citizenship world together, A doctor gunt,
could you start us off with anything you might have
experienced or witness. It takes work, and it takes intentional effort, right, Like,
(22:23):
I think that's one of the things that sometimes is
hard because in the midst of all the other responsibilities
that we are trying to adhere to, in the midst
of trying to learn offenses and defenses and due strength
and win games and build team in our sport, in
addition to also living our personal lives. As we talk
about this how to be a citizen, it takes deliberate
(22:45):
effort and work to dedicate yourself to having a level
of humility that allows you to recognize there are multiple
truths that coexist in the world that we live in,
and trying to understand somebody else's experience takes intention, right,
Trying to educate your yourself about issues that you may
not be familiar with takes intention, That takes effort, and
(23:05):
so it's not just going to happen, right, But I
think that is a part of the hardness. In the
moments where we may feel more disconnected than we've ever felt,
In the moments where we may heal burned out, where
we may heal exhausted, it's important for us to take
care of ourselves. Let me be clear, right, we absolutely
need to do those things to try to restore ourselves
(23:26):
and replenish our energy. But it takes effort to be
in community, to value the collective. But ultimately we all
want to feel like we belong and so that level
of reciprocity, that level of us needing to be able
to give and to take, to show up and to listen,
to be present and to sometimes do all of that
(23:47):
takes work. And so I think the hard part is
this is not something that can happen separate from the
life you're living. This has to be integrated into the
life you live, and it takes effort, but the reward
can be tremendous. We want to close on those rewards
and I'll have to do a kind of lightning round.
Deputy Commissioner Jamie, do you have anything to add on
(24:09):
this one? Doctor Gunder's words really really struck me. I think,
you know, we don't always know what actions are the
right actions to take, but I think as leaders you
can always approach it with a vulnerability and a curiosity, right,
And I think it's really important. I think Coach Kurr
talked about this with the players. To say I don't know,
or just to start with emotions, say I'm scared, that
(24:30):
concerns me. I don't know what the action is, but
if we can open up the conversation by being vulnerable
people and being willing to learn, that opens up the
conversation from especially those in leadership positions like coaches. The
more vulnerable and authentic you're willing to be, and we're
seeing this in the next generation of athletes. I'm sure
Coach Kurrs as well. You have to do it that way.
You have to connect with them right, to motivate them
(24:51):
and to keep them bought into the team. So there's
an incentive system in that too. But I just think
this authenticity, this vulnerability, of this willingness to not know,
just opens up the door or for people to work
together instead of you know what, we've seen a lot
which is shutting down and people taking kind of bifurcated positions.
Coach Kerves, what's the hard part you've seen in intertwining
these kind of different parts of people's identity and to
(25:13):
anticipate where doctor Gunner was going to take us. What's
the reward? What makes it work? Yeah? Well, I think
what Jamie mentioned is so important, you know, the vulnerability
aspect of it, but the hard part of being vulnerable
is that we're living in an era where you know,
people are out there ready to pounce as soon as
you make a mistake. And that's that's what I've found,
(25:33):
you know, being in the in the public eye, I've
had to really make sure that I feel like I
have a good grasp on what I'm talking about, you know.
So I think it's important if you're going to be
involved in the community and involved in some kind of
you know, social change that you're looking for, find a passion,
find something that you're particularly interested in, and focus on
(25:55):
it and read about it and get to know your subject.
For me, that topic gun violence. I lost my dad
to gun violence when I was eighteen years old, and
so that issue is my passion and I've really had
to learn over really since i started talking about it publicly,
which started in about twenty sixteen. I think I've had
(26:18):
to learn a lot of things. You know, I made
a lot of mistakes just with my words and phrases.
For example, you know, if you want to try to
connect with people who are on the other side of
the gun issue, don't say gun control, you know, we
say gun violence prevention. It's an important distinction because if
you want to actually make a connection with people and
(26:40):
actually create progress, there's got to be common ground. And
I've got a dozen other things that I could say
in the same realm of expressions that I needed to learn,
things that I needed to learn, statistics that I had
to learn. But because it was a passion of mine,
I really wanted to learn, and I found great resources
(27:01):
to help me. And now I've really connected with some
of the gun violence prevention groups you know nationally, with
the Brady Center and Gifford's March for Our Lives. I've
learned so much from these people. But the reward has
been phenomenal. I've received letters and calls from high school students,
junior high school students thanking me for speaking up based
(27:24):
on what's happening around the country. It's incredibly inspiring to
learn and grow and meet like minded people and what
is really a nationwide movement to try to improve our society.
So I guess that's my thought. My advice is to
focus on something that you're passionate about, Otherwise you can get,
(27:45):
you know, sort of get yourself in a little bit
of trouble. But the rewards are really really impressive and satisfying.
We are always short on time and discussions like these,
doctor guns there, I want to give you an opportunity.
Any last thought that you want to share, I'll come
to you, Jamie, as well as you coach current. Then
I'll put a button on this and let us get
(28:06):
back to the rest of our days and our citizen
And go ahead, doctor. There are two things that came
to mind. And I've used this phrase now and a
lot of talks and presentations that I do, and I'm
sure it came from somebody much wiser than me, but
I'll share it. And it's We're human beings, not human doings, right,
And so as we think about civics, as we think
about team, as we think about community, as we think
about ourselves, it's really important for us to think about
(28:29):
how we show up and how we can be in
the world. And a just an equitable society is beneficial
for all of us. And again I have to take
it back to the mental health part, right, Like our
mental health is impacted by what happens in us, to
us and around us. So in addition to thinking about
the ways that we take care of ourselves, the ways
that we take care of each other. And the way
(28:51):
that we help to create systems that promote health and
wellness for the collective really creates a society that's better
for all of us. And so those are some of
the things that I think are important about this intersection
and how it intersects with life. Thank you for that, Jamie.
You know, again, working with young people like we do
in college sports, you know, I think there's really this
(29:12):
void of hope for the future for them, and I
really hope that our leadership, you know, and I think
that is affecting their mental health. We're hearing it stories
every day in terms of we're trying to load up
the services on campus. It's not just athletes, it's it's
college students more broadly and youth more generally. But there's
really this lack of hope because of sort of everything
that they're being bombarded with. And I hope as leaders
(29:32):
we can turn that around, and I think it will
lead to better mental health and lead to better the
reward will be a more just, comforting and supportive society
for all of us. It's a massive undertaking. But whether
it's climate change or social justice or otherwise, you know,
these kids are being bombarded and I hope we can
all step up and make a brighter future for them.
Related to that, I think coach kerb brought up something
really important, which is this notion of sort of talking
(29:54):
to the other side, right. I mean, we have people
that are so entrenched in their positions and we need
to find way, and his is a good example to
reach out and to speak to quote unquote the other
side and people that have different ideals and philosophies and
otherwise and come together in a way to determine this
brighter future for sort of the young people of tomorrow
who will lead us when we need their help. So
(30:15):
those are sort of my two takeaways Code Curve bring
us home. As Jamie said, our athletes, our students are
getting bombarded with bad news and the difficulty of living
modern life. As a result, it can cloud the picture.
You know, there's a sense that, oh, my gosh, the
world's in a terrible place. The world's actually in a
(30:36):
way better place than it was fifty years ago. There's
a lot of great things happening. There's a lot of
wonderful people doing amazing things. There's a lot of beauty
on earth. Yes, there are a lot of problems. But
we live in a time where it's media for profits.
It's just people trying to make money by sensationalizing everything,
which is terrible for our mental health. So how can
(30:56):
we help our students and our athletes and people around
us understand that? Pardon my French, but all that stuff
is bullshit, right, It really is. What matters is human
connection truth And how do you get to the truth.
It's it's through communication and respect and and interacting with
(31:17):
people in your community. But we've got to find a
way to lessen the mental impact of all this bombardment
of negativity and divisiveness that is in many ways created
just for profit in our world. Thank you for naming that.
Thank you all for this beautiful communication, very respectful. I
(31:41):
feel more connected to each of you in certain ways,
Coach Kurr. I didn't remember that about you. I lost
my father a gun violence when I was a child
as well, and so I'm feeling extra human with all
of you right now. Thank you for your vulnerability, your honesty,
and your reminders as I interpret it, that we're not alone.
You know, some of the weight that we've described, some
(32:01):
of the news pressures, some of the criticisms and expectations.
They weigh more heavily when we try to carry them
by ourselves. And the principle of sport, as well as
the principle of a democratic, small d society or any society,
really is that we're stronger together. Our health is improved
when we take it in a collective consideration and know
(32:22):
that we can't do any of these things all by ourselves.
That's really a tortuous and unhappy life. So thanks for
coming together to remind us that we can be better together.
Really appreciate all of your time here and certainly off screen.
Thank you wa. We moved fast through that. That was
(32:43):
one of the most efficient conversations I've been a part
of in a while. It makes me think and really
reminds me that there are so many ways to citizen.
There's so many on ramps to having us create a
culture we're caring about and fighting for our communities, and
our democracy is actually exciting and cool and inviting. And
(33:04):
I am clearly not the dude out there always talking
about sports, but I'm aware enough to know that billions
of people are deeply connected to them and the sense
of belonging they provide that team's spirit extends well beyond
the players, into the stands, into the living rooms. So
the more things we can connect to this idea of
(33:25):
citizen as a verb that people are already connected to,
I say use it because that's more likely to help
us create the culture and society we want to live in.
Ergo Therefore, sports, sports, sports, sports, sports, whatever it takes
to help us learn, to help us practice. Yeah, I'm
(33:47):
talking about practice. Listen, We're talking about practice. A huge
thank you to doctor KENSA Gunser, Jamie Zaninovich, and coach
Kerr for their ongoing work and for sharing their wisdom. Also, again,
big thanks to Lisa Kay Solomon and coach Eric Revenoe
(34:10):
for inviting us to be a part of this discussion
and for being great partners in citizening. As always, we've
got some specific actions you can take after listening to
this episode that fall into three categories reflection, learning, and
public participation. So go on build on the momentum you
feel after listening to these incredible people. Our suggestions for
(34:31):
internal reflection are inspired by doctor kinseb Gunter. For those
of you that played sports, how did belonging to a
team make you feel? What about teamwork was easy for you?
What about it was hard? And if you weren't into sports,
hello picture any other team you've been a part of,
whether it's school, or work or somewhere in between. What
(34:52):
personal benefits that you receive by coming together with others
to work on something. Now, when terms of getting more informed,
we got a simple recommend to go to our website
how does citizen dot com because we've designed a quiz
just for you. It's called what makes You Citizen and
we built it to help you figure out what topics
or issues you're most interested in. So take the quiz
(35:13):
and once you get your results, we've got episodes you
can listen to, and books and articles to read to
get you started. For our final action recommendation, I invite
you to join me in attending a gathering in your community.
I'm not showing up to your community. I'm showing up
in mind. But think about a council meeting, a nonprofit assembly,
a school board meeting, a church pot luck, any kind
(35:35):
of community forum to simply be present and listen. I'm
going to find one in my neighborhood in Highland Park,
Los Angeles. These neighborhood council meetings have been on my
list for a long time, so I'm going to do it,
and then I'm going to report back on the how
does Citizen Instagram at how to Citizen and share with
you what I learned, not what I said, what I learned.
(35:59):
As always, we'd love to hear from you about your
experiences taking any of the actions after listening to an episode.
Did you discover a cause for the first time driven
by your passion? Did you join me in attending a
community gathering just to bear witness? Tag or DMUs on
Instagram at how to Citizen, And if you don't do
the social media thing, we got you, you can also
(36:22):
just email us comments at how to citizen dot com.
We may even ask to share your story with our listeners.
If you take any of these actions, please brag about
it online and use the hashtag how to Citizen. Also
tag our Instagram how to Citizen. I am always online
and I really do see your messages, so send them.
(36:43):
You can also visit our website, how to citizen dot com,
which has all of our shows, full transcripts, actions and more.
How to Citizen with barrettun Day as a production of
iHeartRadio podcasts and Row Home Productions. Our executive producers are
Me barrettun Day Thirsty, and Elizabeth Stewart. Our lead producer
(37:03):
is Ali Graham, Our associate producer is Danya abdel Hamid.
Alex Lewis is our managing producer, and John Myers is
our executive editor and mixed engineer. Original music by Andrew
Eapen with additional music by Blue Dot Sessions. Special thanks
to Joel Smith from iHeart Radio and lay Labina. Next
(37:31):
time on how the Citizen we go to Paris really
every three weeks, we have a big happening in front
of the Lloyd's Marketplace. They had one hundred and fifty
den Sels who came and did a show of I
forgot her name, chim Chimney him Mary pops okay, And
so they did because the story of bankers being sad.
Because so they had one hundred and fifty bankers with
(37:53):
fake fake Mary. Path to the Future Insures product Come
back to hear my conversation with Christian vunny Zette about
organizing volunteers into activists and bringing joy, dance parties and
innovation to the fight for climate justice. Row Home Productions
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