Ask HTM - IRA Raiding for a Down Payment, Study Abroad: PAID, & Maintaining an 826 Credit Score #904

Let’s dive into the week with some fresh listener questions we have lined up for you! And don't just stand on the sidelines- if you have a question you’d like us to answer, toss your voice memo our way. It only takes about 90 seconds to record and you can find a step by step guide over at HowToMoney.com/ask . Regardless of how random or bizarre you might think it is, we want to hear it!

 

1 - We want to tap our retirement accounts early to be able to fund a bigger down payment, is that ok?

2 - Taking Social Security… what strategy should I employ?

3 - How should my daughter consider paying for a study abroad program?

4 - Is it frugal or cheap to skip the purchase in a used bookstore and add it to my audiobook queue instead?

5 - What about canceling old credit cards while I have an 826 credit score?

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Hat of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
and today we're answering your listener questions.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
That's the right happy Monday, everybody. It's a great Monday,
Joel to be hosting a personal finance.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Podcast every Monday. It's a great Monday, Matt, because we're
still alive.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hey, it's true and not just any Monday. Just like, honestly,
I love Let's just take a moment and thank all
of our listeners out there the ability for us to
be able to create this podcast. We've got the best
job in the world. Yes, face it, we sure do you. Uh,
thank you for listening. Like anywhere we go from here,
it's just going to be it's gonna be not as good.
Let's just make the podcast gets better. But I don't know,
you're right, Like if it meant other work, not podcasting.

(00:56):
Anytime I think about doing something else, I'm just like, yes,
not as good as podcasting with Joel. It's just a
ton of fun. So ability for us to enjoy a
craft beer right here talk about personal finance. I had
all the other random stuff that.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I can enjoying being a greeter at Walmart.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I just I don't know, but then taking a financial
hit most likely. Yeah, I mean I don't know how.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Much you get paid here, but well it's just hard
to yeah, pay the bills, I think on a Walmart
rereader side. Yeah, but I love I love like meeting folks,
so that that part of the job I would enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
You think I could see you doing that? No, we do.
In fact, I have listener questions. We've got a listener
who's thinking about tapping a retirement account for a down
payment on a home. We're gonna share whether or not
we think that's kosher. Another listener is looking to get
some study abroad paid for not by her, maybe by
somebody else. And then we're going to talk about maintaining

(01:45):
a high credit score without necessarily having to juggle a
bunch of credit cards. We'll get to that and more
during today's episode. Sure will, But uh, let's talk about
Charity Navigator, the Charity Navigator causeway specifically. We'll see that.
So I think I love Charity Navigator. It's a great
way to say I'm in a really good mood today.
I think Charity Navigator it makes me They're like consumer reports,

(02:08):
but with less consuming so kind of like the forgiving. Yes,
so maybe it should be called Giving Charity Reports. And
then all of a sudden you realize, oh, Charity Navigator
is just a much better name. I'll tell them you're
going to be you're joining their marketing team. No, they
got it on on point.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
So I wanted to highlight this Matt because we're getting
to the end of the year. People have giving on
their mind and tax breaks forgiving and stuff like that,
and as well they should. We're going to talk more
about that actually in the coming weeks. But Charity Navigator
released this new thing called Causeway and what their intention
behind it is essentially to create a sort of ETF

(02:45):
for people who want.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
To give the specific causes.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
And I just think this is a really cool product
because you can choose the cause that matters most to you,
whether it's like clean water, animal rescue. They're like a
Shmorgas board of different causes that you can say, that's
the one that matters most to me, and you can
give your money to that cause via this new Causeway future,
and you're giving to a bunch of different highly rated
organizations that support that one cause. So I just thought

(03:10):
that was kind of a fun new giving feature that
they just put out.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's right. Yeah, And we actually talked about the right
amount to give to charity back in episode five ninety six.
We talked about that because obviously, not only is it
good for the organizations that you're giving to, but there's
something that it does to you man like as a giver,
as the one who is being charitable for sure, regardless
if you are spiritual, whether or not you believe in
God or whether you just believe in karma in the universe, Like,

(03:35):
there is something good about being generous and like being
willing to say, okay, like there is some money, some
income that I'm generating that I'm not necessarily going to
like try my darness to hang on to and claw
back every single week Ducat Yeah exactly. So Yeah, I
would recommend for folks to go listen to that one
if they haven't.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
And I want to say, I think this is a
cool feature, but I also am not going to participate
in charity Navigator's causeway, not because I think it sucks,
because I actually do think it's neat, but because I
am more of the I like the donor advice fund model.
That's something we've talked about we've written about too on
the website. We'll maybe link to a couple of articles
in the show notes that we have. But yeah, my
money goes into my daffy account and that's how I'm.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Giving because it just streamlines everything for me. But well,
you only get a form from one organization as opposed
Like that's honestly the best part. The fact that, like,
it's great to be able to, okay, quick pitch on
donor advice funds. What's great about it is the ability to,
let's say, clump you're giving and maybe one year you're
not going to get the standard deduction. That's going to
be the year that you're going to itemize your giving,

(04:37):
and so the ability to receive some of these additional
tax benefits I think is great. But you may not
necessarily know all the organizations that you want to give
to in that moment in time. So the ability to
kind of have it sit there in this sort of
the sort of waiting room, you know, so it's it's
like you're giving dollars, have gone to the dentist office. Well,
they're waiting on their turn to be deployed. The other
cool thing about the donor advice fund is it's more
than a waiting room. You can grow your money as people,

(04:57):
your money nerds. It's like fun to grow your money
for future g So you put in a certain amount
and then you give like down the road and hopefully
that money is we got more money now to give away.
So I love that feature too. But I'm all about
kind of innovation in the giving space. We haven't seen
enough of it, and it's cool to see more. Matt
Let's mention the beer we're having on this episode. This
one is called Juice Quest. It is by Scofflaw Brewing.

(05:18):
They're actually out of Atlanta, not too far away from
where we are. It's a local beer right here.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, we give our thoughts on this one at the
end of the episode. And if you have a money
question we'd love to hear from you. You just essentially
record a voice memo on the app on your phone,
send it over our way. Hopefully we can take it
next week on the show. If you want kind of
the nitty gritty on how to go about doing that,
you can go to how tomoney dot com slash ask
matt Let's get you a question about tapping retirement accounts

(05:45):
for a purchase this listener wants to make Hey.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Matt and Joel. My name is Andrea and I'm from Lancey, Michigan.
My husband and I are looking to buy our first
home and have some questions. As you know, the IRS
allows individuals to withdraw up to ten thousand dollars from
their iras to buy your first home. Obviously, this isn't
the most ideal situation and we want to avoid it
if we can. But if one or both of us
took this step and would allow us to have more

(06:08):
in our savings to use for other home costs and fees,
we're interested to hear what you'd recommend. We really enjoy
listening to your podcast. Your advice has helped us a lot.
Thanks so much, Joe.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Can you picture Area and her husband both listening together,
like while holding hands, sort of like couple's therapy.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
But it makes me think like the fireside chats that
FBR used to give. But maybe she's got an old
school speaker that looks like a radio from the nineteen
twenties and.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
The spirit of Saint Louis style radio. Yeah, the kids
are like hands on the on the chin, laying on
the floor with the fire going in the background, So
quiint adrea, thank you for your question and congrats on
I will say the steps that you have taken to
get you in the position to where you might be
purchasing a home very soon, because I appreciate your rediinus
so easy feet, it's not. Yeah, I appreciate your hesitation

(06:55):
to take money out of your retirement accounts to make
this happen, because like, just because you are allowed to
tap some of those retirement accounts for a down payment,
that doesn't mean that it is advisable, because I would say,
in an ideal world, you would just leave those dollars
in your iras to grow and to compound for your future.
Those are retirement dollars, and instead you take just a

(07:17):
little bit longer to save up.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, you said ideal world though, Matt, and You're right,
like there trade offs are the ultimate reality of every
money decision that we make, and that is like, hey,
in perfect times, that's what we would suggest, but hey,
we don't live in perfect times, and so should you
take money out of your ira Andrea in order to
fuel your downpayment abilities? Even though we're talking about imperfect decisions,

(07:41):
we would say still probably not those dollars should be
considered semi sacred, like almost sacred when you stick them
in there. The goal is to leave them in there
and to not tap them, even though there are special exceptions.
In the case of a home down payment, right you
have access to ten thousand dollars of raw IRA earnings,
for instance, in addition to the contributions you've made over

(08:03):
the years. You can tap those for the down payment
without paying tax and penalties on those funds. But the
harm you'd be doing would be interrupting the compounding of
those dollars way earlier, right than you otherwise would. And
we'd rather you not take this route so you might
get the home you want. But opting to snatch those

(08:25):
dollars back far too soon is going to cost you
more than you think. It could leave you with a
six figure shortfall in retirement.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
And if we're talking about taking money out of a
traditional IRA, right, know that you're going to owe tax
on the ten thousand dollars that you might pull out early,
which means it's not going as far as you think either.
So I just think of this as I get why
people want to do it, and it is allowed, and
so they're like cool, maybe it sounds like something I
should hit up. There's like specifically the irs is designated
an avenue for me to take, But I just think

(08:55):
that it doesn't make sense for most people.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, Like it estented like she's just thinking about maybe
doing this with the traditional because she just said the
ten thousand only is what she was taken into account,
and so for her and her husband, if she's looking
at twenty thousand dollars, I'm looking off into the future,
she might be thinking to herself, twenty thousand dollars. That's
nothing when it comes to in the grand scape of
retirement dollars. Yeah, but twenty thousand dollars right now, it
would make a massive difference in our ability to like

(09:18):
that changes some of our criteria, what you know, the
kind of home that we're looking at. But that's the thing, Like,
don't forget that we're talking about compounding here, and so
we're not talking about twenty thousand dollars in forty years,
Like in forty years that twenty thousand dollars can compound
up to like around a million dollars. We're talking about
a substantially larger amount of money down the road. It's
not just about how much you're setting aside today, it's

(09:40):
what that can compound into. So just keep that in mind.
And you can't undo this either because you can't get
that money back in You can't get that money back
into those IRA accounts and invested because of annual contribution limits.
We would rather see you have less of a down payment,
or maybe just to reconsider what it is you can afford,
you know, could you opt for or a slightly more

(10:01):
affordable home that won't require as much cash. I'm a
little worried that you might be prioritizing a more expensive home,
like something a bit nicer, or even having a smaller
monthly mortgage payment at the expense of those tax advantage
dollars growing for your future. And you also mentioned the
additional costs and the fees that you'd be able to cover,

(10:22):
you know, with some of this extra money on hand. Well,
those are really important to plan for. These closing costs,
maintenance that could set you back a decent chunk, some
deferred maintenance, maybe that the property might need not to mention,
like you're going to want to decorate it. And a
lot of times, for a lot of folks, when you
buy a home. It's a little bit bigger than the
space you're already in. So you're thinking, oh, well, we
got we gotta get a new sofa like some even

(10:44):
if it's used, it still costs money. And so we
are okay with you not bringing let's just sait like
a full twenty percent down payment to the closing table
on your first home purchase. But man, I will say,
saving up like five percent for that down payment and
then on top of that having cash for some of
those other necessities, I think that is very important. That's crucial.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, And if you can't meet that requirement without tapping
your retirement funds to get there, we would say then
it's just too soon in the process, and you probably
need to rent for another year or two and continue
saving up right to amass the amount you need to
buy the home that you want. And I think the
only exception Matt to kind of this advice would be

(11:23):
if you are house hacking, because if you're taking out
money from one investment account to fund another investment.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
A very different type of investment.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, they're very different, but I think that can be
a reasonable choice. I could go on calling in and saying, hey, listen,
it's got this basement apartment that I'm planning to airbnb
and then and that's going to I think produce significant returns.
So ultimately it's just going to lower our housing costs
by a whole lot. Or man, we're thinking about buying
a triplex and living in one unit and running out
the other two, Well, then you're doing something completely different

(11:53):
and you're turning your housing costs on their face.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, And if you are.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Into the house hacking lifestyle, if you're willing to go
to those extremes, then taking money out of one investment
to fund another, I just have a lot more leniency
for if it's just a fund a nicer single family
home purchase. Though I have sympathy, but I don't have
a lot of But I'm not willing to sign off
on that move either.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Totally agree. Another caveat too, and I don't think Andrew's
in this position, But if they have a massive amount
already set aside in their retirement accounts, students say this,
but let's say they've got five hundred thousand combined in
four to one k's okay, I'm fine with you taking
twenty thousand, like honestly, because of the fact that it
would be such a small drop in the bucket of
their overall retirement savings. That's a good point, but I
didn't necessarily hear that in nangerous question.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, if they're thirty five and they're well on their
way to they do have something like half a million
dollars invested saved up already in retirement accounts. Versus, hey,
we're taking twenty grand out of our total of sixty
That would frighten me more too, because hey, you just
haven't built up enough to allow yourself. I think the
luxury of tapping those funds early. And I hope that

(12:56):
our cautious approach isn't shutting down your goal of home
ownership bandry. That is not our intent here. We don't
think home ownership is a necessity to building wealth. It's
more of a lifestyle goal, and it can be an
awesome one. Matt, you and I we both own our
own homes. I mean caveat they have a mortgage attached
to them, so the bank co owns those homesless at
this point in time. But we want the same thing

(13:16):
for you. We just don't want you to rush it right.
We don't want you to bite off more than you
can chew, or to hamstring your other future financial goals
by maybe putting this goal of home ownership before prioritizing
saving up for it and leaving your retirement accounts intact totally.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
And I think sometimes constraining yourself you are not tapping
this easily accessible bucket of future money. I think that
could sometimes lead to the most creative results. So, for instance,
are there any local first time down payment assistance programs?
That's something I would do some digging around on see
if that's available to you. Even just shifting how it
is that you think about this purchase, Like if there's

(13:54):
a way for you to maybe even sort of gamify
the sacrifices that you're able to make in the here
and now because you want because for you and your husband,
this is a shared goal and it's so important it's
worth sacrificing, like I think, and that's what I did
with Kate and I. We were in our early twenties.
We didn't hardly have any money, but man, we didn't.
We stopped going out to eat. We were cutting left

(14:14):
and right to find ways to decrease our expenses and
at the same time increasing our income. And that's when
we started our side business, which turned into a full
fledged business, and that allowed us to put down a
great down payment on our first home. That's when we
sold our that's when we sold the jeep, but that
was some additional money that we were able to put
towards our home because for us that was so important.

(14:35):
And so I don't know if you can make it
almost like this focal point, not to get obsessive over it,
but for it to inform why it is you're willing
to make some sacrifices in the here and now. I
think it's okay to get a little obsessive too, right,
if it's important to you, It just depends on how
into it you are.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Not only could we get the fifteen grand or whatever
whatever our Honda CRV or whatever you drive is worth,
but then we also save the money on insurance costs. Boy,
that's just like tapping our ira, except for notw we
just sold a valuable asset instead. And for instance, when
I bought my first house, branded out a room in
it during that time to kind of I knew I
could afford it by myself, but I was like, man,

(15:10):
this is another way just for me to make this
a slam dunk purchase. There are all sorts of like
outside of the box choices you can make, Matt, and
you specifically use a word like constraints. And I do
think that constraining yourself in a particular way for a
specific goal can lead to creativity. It can kind of
unleash some creativity in your life that might have otherwise
lain dormant. So that's what we would encourage you towards. Andrea,

(15:31):
I think you can still hit your goal and potentially
still in the timeline you want while not tapping your
IRA at the same time, and you're going to be
happier decades down the road because hey, you were able
to buy the house and you are also able to
keep your retirement accounts intact.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
That's right, man. But we've got more to get to
on today's episode, including someone who's looking to for they're
looking for an alternative to taking out student loans. We'll
get to that and more right after this.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
All right, Matt, we're back time to get some more
listener questions. Now, let's get to a question about best
practices for when to tap Social Security.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
Hi, this is Rebecca from Connecticut. My question relates to
taking Social Security when one spouse is greater than ten
years younger than the older spouse. I'm one hundred and
twenty two months younger than my husband and he started
taking Social Security at age seventy. And I know there's

(16:34):
specific rules regarding spousal social Security when one spouse is
more than ten years younger than the other, and I'm
reading the dot gov documents and it's really confusing to me.
So could you explain that to us? Thanks? Have a
great day, Joe.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
When you're first listening to Rebecca's question, did you think
for a second that she was one hundred something years
old the way she said that, which she said, I
am one hundred You wait.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
That, so tap social Security. You've waited too long, Rebecca.
That we really appreciate your question. If she's listening to
podcasts at one hundred plus years of age, like more
power to Oh, yeah, you get special status granted to you.
You're the youngest centenary at heart.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Ever, I wanted to say, like, I love, Rebecca that
your spouse waited to take Social Security until he turned seventy,
because that's going to ensure that he gets like not
just the maximum retirement benefit, but the additional delayed retirement credit.
There are far too many folks out there who are
tapping Social Security when they are first allowed, right when
they turn sixty two or shortly thereafter, and that can

(17:35):
cost like six figures over the coming decades. And it
also means that you minimize that payout, which is a
known quantity. This is something that is certain you eliminate
risk by in this case, by waiting, so unlike future
market returns, which certainly have the ability to be outsized.
I don't know. I feel I'm about to talk out

(17:55):
of both sides of my mouth here, because I love
investing in the market.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
But at that point in time, hopefully you have invested
enough in the market and the best goal for you
is to snag the certain higher paycheck.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
It just well, it depends on what you plan on
doing with the money, too, because like I think about
like my dad specifically, he and this is an unpopular
sort of take, but he took the check as soon
as it was available to him. Yeah, and he but
he didn't need the money necessarily, and so he's been
investing those monthly payments for something like the last four years,
and I'm pretty he's done really well, he's better than
what if you know, I've watched the stock market what

(18:26):
it has done over the past four years, but even
even outside of the past four years, and what the
market's returned there generally speaking, the stock market, right, we
can look at historical returns and you're looking at ten percent,
not including inflation. And so if you don't need the
money and you have the discipline on hand to be
able to invest some of those dollars, I think that
that can be that can be a great move as
one reasonable strategy, But there are so many factors that

(18:46):
go into whether or not you should do that. It
depends on what whether or not most folks they need
that much, right, right, Like this is an additional money
that they're looking to just invest.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
That's right, And I think it's important to mention like
your dad is in a different position, but most people,
my parents included, like, they need the certainty that comes
along with a guaranteed eight percent return that you get
by delaying that check each and every year. Right, Yeah,
And there is kind of like you're pointing out here, Matt,
there's a lot of nuance about when you tap SOOCCE security.
There's not one right answer and there's even more nuance
right in this particular question because we're talking about a

(19:16):
significant age gap between the partners. And a lot depends
too on your health, like how you're feeling when you
turn enter into your sixties and you kind of get
to that point in time where you can tap social Security.
If you have, let's say, a diagnosis, or you feel
like your general health trajectory is just going downward, then yeah,

(19:37):
you might be inclined to tap those security earlier than
what the experts would suggest. It also depends on what
your spouse is doing, right, how much debt do you have,
what does your investment portfolio look like? What are your
cash flow needs?

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Like?

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Those are all I think really important questions. Yeah, if
you need that money, Yeah, Like if you don't have
the cash load, then oh no, we're taking social Security
because that's what that's what we're going to live.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
And wouldn't it be like a million times easier to
answer this question if you knew the date of your
death right if you could say, of course, well, lucky me,
I'm not dying for another thirty five years, so it
makes sense for me to punt, or if you knew
what the future market returns would be. But those are
two unanswerable questions I think. I think for the average person,
then the best thing to do is to punt a
little bit longer to take your social Security to bake

(20:20):
in that guaranteed check. And Matt, that can also shift.
By the way, my mom, she was planning on holding
off on taking social Security and just taking a little
more out of retirement accounts, but she had a recent diagnosis.
I haven't really talked about this on the show, probably
not planning on talking about it in depth right now,
but this has changed their planning and the way they
think about taking social Security is so she has now
tap social Security, which makes sense, like this is something

(20:41):
we've talked about together, So this is this is also
a fluid conversation. It's not necessarily something you come to
an answer on and you set it and forget it.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
And that is one of the great things too about
this is that once you make a decision, you can,
to a certain extent, you can undo it. You can
change your mind down the road. But likely the best
claiming strategy here for you, Rebecca is free to take
social Security as soon as possible, especially since your husband,
since he waited until the optimal time to take his
This is what's known as a split strategy, and so

(21:12):
it means that you're claiming at two different points in time,
and you're going to have two checks coming in for
as long as possible. And then if your husband were
to pass away before you, which is I know this
is awkward to say, but this is likely given actuarial tables,
given the fact that you are so much younger, well,
you're going to be eligible to receive his inevitably much

(21:33):
higher check at that point. So that means more money
each and every month now, but it also means more
money for you if you were to become widowed. I
think that's likely the best option.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, I agree, I think that in her specific scenario,
this is this is what I would suggest. And you know,
we're not even talking about waiting to claim until full
retirement age. For Rebecca, claiming at sixty two could make
the most sense for her. And it's funny because we're
just talking about waiting and waiting and waiting, but her
husband did the waiting and so maybe now she can
tap hers early. And you're getting kind of different to

(22:05):
both works.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
You get that money flowing.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
In and then so the answer to this question can
vary greatly depending on a couple specific factors too, Right,
there is no one size fits all answer. But the
biggest thing for Rebecca given the parameter she mentioned, is
that her husband took the smart route waiting to claim,
and that acts kind of like, I don't know, man,
I'm gonna call it a social security insurance policy for
her in the future. Right, and he has basically gotten

(22:29):
the maximum check he was allowed, acts as this insurance
policy for himself in for Rebecca. And then this also
allows them to minimize the amount they're taking from retirement
accounts by having those two checks coming in as soon
as possible, allowing money in the market in their poor
one case, and their iras to continue to grow too.
So to me, that's the best route for Rebecca or

(22:50):
her husband moving forward in regards to social security.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, and there are some great tools out there these
days that can help you to make the most optimized decision, Rebecca,
maximize my social security. That's a great one that some
economists out there have developed. It's not free. I'll say
that it's going to cost you a little bit of money.
I think it's like fifty bucks for a year. But
that being said, I think it's well worth it given
the amount of money that is at stake here with

(23:14):
your social security. You can also hire a financial advisor
to talk through the pros and cons. The added benefit
here is that you would you know, they would look
at your entire financial situation, which I could see some
benefit there if you are interested, check out Hello Nectarene.
That is only one hundred and fifty dollars an hour. Again,
this is a low fee to not screw something that's

(23:36):
just so massive that could have long lasting implications. If
you're going to do like a frugicial finance.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Frugler cheap rating man, I'm going to say frugal right,
to pay for help, It's like what we talk about
in when it comes to paying for tax help tax advice. Oftentimes,
that few hundred dollars three four, five hundred dollars you
would pay to a tax professional to help you assess,
way and file your taxes could save you a lot
more money on the back end.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
They can save you a big bucks. Yeah, And it's
different when you are early on in your financial journey, right,
Like there's not a whole lot of decision making to
be done sure, like widely diversified low cost index funds. Boom,
there you go. We just saved you a bunch of money.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
I don't have any round properties. My taxes are pretty basic,
like the DIY thing. Totally fine. You know you can
do cash app taxes or the IRS's direct file, whatever
it is. The stakes are low, but when there is
more money on the line, especially once you are getting
towards the end of your financial journey, I think hiring
an advisor could be well worth it.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Rebecca. We hope that gets you pointed in the right direction.
Joel is here from a listener who is looking to
minimize student loans. But not just any student loan. This
is like a potential student loan with like a very
specific purpose.

Speaker 5 (24:39):
Good morning, Joel, I listened to you on KFI. Thanks
for your great money tips. I always enjoy hearing them.
My twenty two year old daughter has been accepted into
a program to study next semester in Japan. She's an
international business major with a Japanese minor at cal State Fluorton.
She's looking to get a student loan to help pay
for it senior year, and this is the only debt

(25:01):
she is personally taking on in her education. We have
paid for the rest. I was wondering if there are
any special student loans that are better for studying abroad.
If so, could you recommend the best places to search
for that loan. This is sort of a timely process
since she has was accepted due dates are rolling forward quickly.
You always have such great information and I trust what

(25:23):
you share. I want to help my daughter get a
loan that is the best for her. Thanks so much
for your time.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Megan Joel, did she say Meghan or Megan? I think
it was Meghana because we have a friend named Meghan,
and she's the only Meghan we know.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Never met another one. Yeah, it's a unique name, but
I'm pretty sure this was Meghan and Matt. I actually
don't think we've talked about this on the.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
This is All You because she addressed you only so
she did get to sit by the handle this, sit
back and relax, take a chill pill.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Well.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
The How the Money podcast actually airs locally on KFI
in Los Angeles on the weekends now and we have
regular appearances on the station too. It's been a really fun,
great partnership for us, and so basically Matt, you and
I were mixing new media and classic media. But did
you ever think and how proud is your dad that
you are now heard on AM radio in one of

(26:11):
the biggest cities in the country.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
I don't think he knows. He really he does know.
He does. Now I'll call him. Okay, yeah, you're gonna
have to shoot him at tight. Actually we're talking old
and new medium media. Once you go ahead and to
send him as snail mail, you're at it. I'll do that.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
But yeah, no, it's cool to get to be on
such a great radio station and to get to serve
the people of Los Angeles. But Matt, let's get onto
Meghan's question. We got to say, first off, great parenting
by you, Meghan. I mean, it's incredible that you've been
able to get your daughter through college debt free. Until
this point, we don't actually see that as being incumbent

(26:46):
on all parents that they have to provide that, or
their deadbeat parents or anything like that. There are just
so many ways to pay for college these days. But
it really is an incredible gift and you're setting her
up for success. So big kudos to you on that front.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Well, Joe, this begs the question did you do you
ever study abroad? I think I know the answer to this,
but gives you an opportunity to talk about your college experience. No, No,
I did not. Yeah, I mean either, I went on
I get three month road trip around the country after college,
but felt like you're studying abroad out there on the
West coast right the Grand Canyon felt like a foreign country.
You weren't studying during that trip. You were learning other things.

(27:19):
That's right, that's right, learning about life. Matt. Yeah, I
didn't either, but I wish I had me too. Well.
I backpacked so one summer. It wasn't like for the
whole summer. It was just for like two weeks, I think.
But me and some friends we backpacked Italy on a
shoe string, crazy shoe string budget, sleeping in train stations
and tunnels under tracks like that kind of thing. Yeah,
true vagabond lifestyle. Oh my gosh. Yeah, in retrospect, I'm

(27:42):
not entirely sure how we survived. But on the other hand,
that's how we lived back in the day. Like you know, Well,
I also think it's one of those things we take
less risks today, I guess is maybe what I'm realizing
it's also one of those things you can get away
with when you're late teens, early twenties.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, you can never get away within any other point
in your life. And I think the same thing is
true of like my little trip in han a court
station where I get around the country. It would be
tough to pull off these days, but not agree just
for a person of my age, Well, this is what
I mean. Yeah, I think younger folks would probably still
get away with it, and I think they are still
doing it. Yeah, yeah, which is more power to them.
And let's talk about actually paying for this study abroad program.

(28:17):
I would suggest this first look around for free money.
Free money is always better than you know, your own money,
spending your own money.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
I'll start there before we start talking about second a loan.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Right exactly. So we've talked about scholarships on the show before.
Most recently we talked about getting scholarships with Joscelyn Pearson
on episode eight sixty of the podcast. And there's just
no reason not to look for scholarships. Even at this
point in the game. You might say, but this is
like the last semester or this is the last expense
we're gonna face, I don't want to do the scholarship thing,
and I would say that would be short sighted. You

(28:47):
should go look for scholarships and try to find things
they're gonna meet. They're gonna be able to meet your
need because the ROI of spending some time in that
endeavor it can be significant. Don't assume that you have
to pay cash or that you have have to take
out a loan. And in particular, check out. There's actually
a government website Study Abroad dot state dot gov. If

(29:07):
you go there, you're gonna find a lot of helpful resources,
including links to specific scholarships for people who are going
to study abroad. And I just think, like Matt, that
website it's dedicated to Megan and her daughter's needs. Here,
I would not leave that stone unturned.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Do They also tell you how to like wear the
faint pack on the front under your pants, So that's
tonight I probably do bugged yea or the money wain
like advice under your shirt, like the kevlar string or
something like that. Actually, foreign countries often incentivize US students
to come over for a period of time, and so
you might find that you qualify for money when you
click on financial resources there on that site. Specifically, look

(29:47):
to the Gilman Scholarship, which can land her like anywhere
between five and eight thousand dollars in funds that don't
need to be paid back.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
My favorite kind of money. What money that doesn't need
to be paid back. It's awesome.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
So hopefully you're able to the pay for all, or
at least most of the trip by finding some of
these generous travel abroad programs and scholarships. In that way,
she can still graduate debt free while also having this
invaluable experience.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, like, I think the experience is probably worth paying
for if you have to, But the goal is to
not have to man, not even have right, The goal
is to get the experience without being out the money.
And because the truth is there might be additional money
that's required out of your own pocket or out of
your daughter's pocket. And I do want to say, you
might want her to pay for some of this, don't
assume that it's on you, Yes, exactly, I mean, especially

(30:34):
while she's a senior. And so this is like the
perfect time for her to on ramp into adulthood. You know,
It's one thing at the beginning of the school year,
but like, the whole point is to be able to
successfully launch a young person out into the world, and
so may what better way than to take on some
of these financial responsibilities. Is like, she's about to be
a full blown adult, right, right, So why not if
she's not going to do the legwork to find some

(30:55):
of the scholarships, at least be the one who does
have to take out the loans if necessary. Exactly, Yeah,
And I think it's also it's worth pointing out you
might need to or they might be the best option
to take out a little bit of student loan debt
in order to cover the cost. Graduating with zero debt
is the ideal, but taking on a little bit in
her senior year for this program it seems reasonable too.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
And if there is.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Financial need that your family has, you could apply for
a PEL grant right, maybe to pay for that study
abroad program as well. I think the other thing, Matt,
that I would look into, I would just I would
start poking around at the financial aid office at her school.
I would have her call that don't do this yourself.
I would have your daughter call or visit the office
in person to see what funds might be available for

(31:38):
like a semester abroad. I guarantee you they have had
this question one hundred times over. You're not the first
person asking, and you just never know what's available until
you ask. You might find you're literally talking to the
people who deal in this twenty four to seven. They eat, sleep,
and breathe money for college. So I would go talk
to the experts in the financial aid office and you
might find that they have resources, that they have suggestions

(31:59):
that you have thought of yet.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, and I will say, this does sound like an
amazing program, and so we don't want to discourage what
sounds like an amazing experience. We want you to find
all that free money. But if you can't find any,
the last resort would be to take out a federal
student loan for the amount that's needed. You can typically
get a loan for the study abroad program. And if
you can't, that's when this is like the very very

(32:21):
last resort, a private student loan. It might become a necessity.
Certainly not our favorite, but you should likely be borrowing
like a pretty dang small amount. Right like we're just
talking about it sounds like this is is this her
actual final semester? We're talking about four months of living
and studying in a different country.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
And I think our answer to this question would potentially
be a little bit different if she was calling in,
if Megan was calling in and saying it already.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Had bowloads of students.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, my daughter's already got one hundred and twenty thousand
dollars a student loan.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
She's in a great position. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, but the fact that she has no student loan
debt means there's a lot of flexibility here. And I
think that you can prioritize the experience, even though I
think there are ways to get it to cost less
out of less money to pocket, I think you can
prioritize the experience over the money on this one.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, because there's a there's a there's a quickly closing
window sort of like she was saying as far as
like the application deadlines, like, but not just on this
specific program, but in life, like right now is the
time that she has to be able to go on
this trip, sort of like when you were younger, that's
when you had the opportunity to go on that road
trip and sleep in the back of your Honda right
the Honda station wag or whatever, or like sleeping underneath
train tracks in Milan, Italy, which probably would not ever

(33:26):
be advisable to anybody that was it was the very
small period of time where I was able to do that.
And if we keep going down this track, I feel
like we're gonna it's gonna turn into sort of like
some sort of yolo mentality. But it's important to keep
in mind though, that we see the potential here for
this for her to receive just like an outsize return
from this experience that vastly outweighs what she might be

(33:48):
taking on in student loans, even private student loans.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
So I just had a conversation with my wife family
with her stepmom, and her stepmom's daughter recently graduated, got
a job and is saying she's saying, I, actually, I
think I'm gonna quit. I think we're going to travel
abroad for a while. And the stepmam asked me, She's like,
you're going to tell her this is a bad idea, right,
You're going to tell her that that this is going
to cost her money and think about the four oh

(34:12):
one K and the.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Think, like an economist, the opportunity cost Joel.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
And it's funny because I'm thinking back to those three
months that I took off, literally quitting my first job
in order to take that trip, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
So glad it did.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Like I have zero regret since I was like, sorry, sorry,
I don't have your back on this one. Your daughter
should quit, she should go pursue this opportunity, taking a
few months off to go get an experience like this.
It's life changing.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
So the jobs will still be there, and of course
the student loans will still be there, but the ability
for her to keep that to a minimum. I think
she has the ability to quickly pay that off as
quickly as possible once she's back erunning a paycheck, and
has also had her worldview completely shifted from what she's
had up until this point, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
All Right, man, We've got more to get to on
this episode, including we're going to take a frugal or
cheap and a question about canceling credit cards you don't
use anymore to that more right after this, All right, chel.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
We are back from the break that's I'm going to
land this plane, this how to Money episode, this ask
how to Money episode, didn't realize we're a flying Matt.
But it is now time for the Facebook question of
the Week, which is from Brandon who has a frugal
or cheap and he wrote, I was in a used
bookstore yesterday and I found one book I wanted, but
rather than immediately buy it, I looked up the audiobook

(35:30):
on Spotify to listen to later. We did buy some
other stuff from that store before leaving. Joel, is this
a frugal or cheap? What do you think? I think
it's frugal. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Love used bookstores, by the way, and that's actually the
prize I dangle in front of my daughters if they
get one hundred on their spelling tests, they get a
free used book of their choosing. And so I think
use books.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
But do you actually go to a used bookstore to
buy the book? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:55):
For sure, Oh yeah, because my kids love physical books.
I'm more of an audiobook guy, but I still, I mean,
I still buy used books on occasion. There's some books
I like to actually own. Yeah, very rarely to almost never.
Do I actually buy new books though, Oh yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Honestly, I don't even like used like physic I'm sorry,
not physical books. So for me, like if I had
to rate my top choice, it's audiobooks all the way.
But then after that, not too far down are e books.
The ability for me to bust out my kindle paper white.
It's so great. Yeah, it's so good because if you
like holding something, okay, well you just hold this little
frame and then all you gotta do when you want

(36:33):
to advance the page is you just kind of roll
that thumb onto the screen and you just put some
pressure there on and it boot goes to the next page.
I still like books over. I don't know if you
knew this will. I have dry skin and so I
would dry fingers and I always have to lick my
finger to grab the page to be able to turn it.
That must be hard. It's annoying. Yeah, and so I
literally don't like physical books for that reason.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
That will thank you for that insight into your reading habits.
I also like audiobooks, but I prefer physical book second
ebooks last.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
So for you, like when you take the girls, it's
it's like the whole event. It's the fact that you're
going somewhere. It's like an activity, it's an outing.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
And then and then for them, I think it feels like, oh,
I'm getting the book I want, and I get to
hold it and read it. And my daughter like literally
every morning I go wake her up one of them,
at least she's in her bed reading already, and so
I want to incentivize that too. That's one of the
great times you can.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Incentivizeh one hundred percent, Like, yeah, we are all about reading.
Do y'all not use the library?

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Because yeah, because I feel like we but there's something
they read over and over, like the roll Doll books
come on, like we're gonna read those one hundred times.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
There are certain classics, but like for those, I honestly
like there are certain series and classics where we've purchased
because it's like, Okay, we want our own copy, and
all the kids are going to read through these multiple times.
But the vast majority of reading that they're doing it's
via books that they've checked out from the library. And like,
I mean we go week like literally Kate goes every
single week, and I think we've talked about how we've
got like the maximum number of books that they will

(37:56):
allow you to check out. I'm not going to shift
the conversation to talking about taxes, but if you're going
to pay these taxes, it's like may as well, be
a benefit, take advantage, take advantage of it. And we're
certainly super users when it comes to utilizing our local
public library.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
So I think we should get back to a brandon
ass and I do think it's frugal to go into
your news books for he said he bought some things,
so it's not like he's literally just going in there
to find titles that he can add to a Spotify playlist.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
The other thing worth actually is that why got it?
I don't think I realized. So he was saying he's
afraid that he was going into the actual store to
like get ideas for books, and then he then but
he was doing both.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
He was giving both, and he and he got a
couple audiobooks based on stuff he saw in the store.
But then he also bought a couple of things too.
And it's worth mentioning as well that if you are
into audiobooks, Spotify actually has a pretty good product on
that front, finally, a legit competitor to Audible. You're big
on the Spotify previews, Yeah, I mean I did it
for a while. I haven't done it lately, but I
would do it again. It's they basically be fifteen hours

(38:51):
worth of listening time. They've got a pretty good selection
of audiobooks, not quite as as substantial as Audible, but
it still really dang good. So I think it's a
good compliment to the free books you can get on
the Libby app and to the books. Maybe you might
buy the used books for.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, Okay, I don't think I totally understood his question initially,
So so the way he's asking it basically is sort
of is equivalent to saying, Hey, would you go into
a store to try on a jacket to get sized
and then buy that same jacket online something like that
from an online retailer at a much diskind of price,
And so he's saying that because of the fact that
you purchased something else, it's not cheap, it's frugal. Yeah,

(39:30):
that's what he's saying. Yeah, well, I mean I think
even even if you were to do that, like stores
know that that is an inherent part of coming into
the store, like the get you in other ways, like
I'm thinking of the point of sale purchases, like the
cands or there's something on clearance, and so you're like, oh, shoot,
maybe I'll go ahead and make that happen. Like, you know,
like there are other ways that stores get you, and

(39:51):
I think, I don't know, I'm not just I'm not saying, hey,
go into all your local brick and mortars and try
on shoes and then go online and to see if
you can find the same pair of shoes used. But
I also think that there are ways that stores sort
of account for the fact that there are folks who
are just coming in. They're sort of window shopping, but
they're hoping to kind of get your their hooks in

(40:12):
you in in like a different way.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, I think, especially though, on those small businesses that
are like pillars of your community, the stores that you
want to see exist.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Support them one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
And so if yeah, especially like a used bookstore, they're
not breaking in cash, I'm pretty sure, but they are
like fantastic places that I'm so glad they exist. And
I would rather spend some extra money at my local
used bookstore just in hopes that it stays open for
many more years to come, instead of cheaping out than
save and fifty cents by buying it on eBay or

(40:42):
something like that.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, I think it comes down to what it is
that you want to see in the community. It's sort
of I mean, there's a local establishment that opened near
a role and I was just like, I literally I am
thinking about creating a live item on my budget to
force myself to like I'm going to go there anyway, yeah,
but to sort of force myself to go there because
I want that business, this small business, to do well.
And so in a similar way, I think, yeah, putting
money towards the businesses you want to see succeed. And

(41:04):
even though I personally may not gain a whole lot
of utility out of a used independent bookstore, it's still
something I like the idea of it, and I want
it to be there, even if it's sort of like
this romantic idea of like, oh, being able to go
in there on a rainy day with get a cup
of coffee, and well, we're humans to a book.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
We pay extra for great experiences, and rightly so, like
there are certain things that are worth The coffee might
be the same at one coffee shop versus another, but
I pay for the experience of a specific coffee shop maybe,
or the used bookstore, Like can I get it cheaper
on some sort of website on the internet, like an eBay?

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (41:39):
But there is something about the novelty and the joy
that comes from perusing your favorite used bookstore and the
serendipity of stumbling upon maybe something that you hadn't seen before.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
There's something really valuable about that, So I think, Yeah,
keep in mind those other intangible benefits that you get
from shopping at a store like that too.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
I dig it.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
All right, Let's get to our last question, Matt. This
is an email question from Linda. She says, how do
I cancel old credit cards that I have not used?
I have a FICO score of eight twenty six, but
I do not want to lower my score. I pay
off most of my cards unless I have interest free
terms eight twenty six. That's exactly what I have right now.
You guys, are I just checked with set of blood brothers.
You're like credit card homies or something.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
All right, let's get to the logistics, like the mechanics here, Linda,
It's actually not that hard to cancel your credit card.
There is typically an eight hundred number on the back
of the card that you should be able to call,
or you just log into your account online and you
can cancel it that way. So there's the how do
you do it? So it's time not to get to
the part of the question that you weren't asking, which
is is something always my favorite part that you should do?

(42:42):
And I would say probably not. I get the maybe
you've got a desire to simplify your personal finances. You
want to clean things up, and so why not get
rid of an old card that you don't use anymore. Well,
the reason is because there are consequences in doing so.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, namely the drop in your credit score. And then
you and Matt would not get to exist on an
equal playing field anymore. He would now be above you,
he'd be at eight twenty six and you might be.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Stuck at the eight nineteen clubs.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
So lemon, get an eight thirteen something like that. Right,
and closing your cards is going to have an impact
on multiple fronts. Right, you're talking about getting rid of
cards you've had for a long time. Those cards are
doing you a service on the credit score front. They're
lengthening your credit history, which is one factor in your
credit score. They're also increasing how much credit you have
available to you, which helps with what's known as your

(43:31):
credit utilization rate. And that's one of the biggest factors right,
that goes into your credit score. So there are these
two major factors that you're dinging by canceling a couple
of cards that you don't want to carry anymore. So
if you get rid of a few of them, you
could harm your score meaningfully. I mean, you're probably not
going to drag it down to like seven to ten,
but you know, but you could see a fifteen twenty

(43:53):
thirty point ding depending on how many cards you close
and kind of how they're impacting your score right now.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, And one of the downsize to just completely ignoring
the cars, the fact that they might that the card
issuer would close it on you. And so a suggestion
we might have is to put a recurring bill like
something like Netflix on each one of those cards and
then just have it automatically paid off every single month.
And so basically, when you saw that card getting paid
from your checking account, you would then begin to associate

(44:20):
a certain card with that specific utility. Right. You don't
have to actually lug those cards around with you, you don't
have to carry them, but this will keep those cards
alive and active and they will stay there in your
credit mix, which is going to keep your score in
that upper echelon, and I would say I think the
main reason to close a card would be if you
don't use it at all and it's got an annual fee.

(44:42):
But even then you can just ask for a card downgrade,
and so it's not something that you would necessarily need
to completely get rid of. But also I am going
to highlight the fact that you don't have to have
a perfect credit score, right, like we were just joking
about getting ding from an eight twenty six to eight
nineteen oh or god forbid a thirteen. As long as
you aren't getting taken all the way down to like

(45:03):
the lower seven hundreds. I think it's in seven forty
typically the lower limit, and as long as you are
above seven forty, you're going to qualify for the best.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Terms typically either seven forty or seven sixty is so
if you're seven sixty plus you're good to go.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
So and you're in the eight hundreds, you are in
great territory. But again I totally understand if you're just
done with it and you don't want to mess with
us anymore. It makes me think of We've got friends
who have paid off mortgages, Joel, and they had lower
interest rates on those mortgages. But for them personally, this
is what they wanted in their life. And if that's
the case, well it's not the most financially optimized thing
to do, but I think it's totally within reason. If

(45:37):
that's something that you wanted to do. That's a good
way to put it. Personal finance. That's what it's all
about here.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Totally within reason to close those as long as you're
doing it smartly and overtime so that you don't harm
yourself too much and maybe cost yourself. If you're applying
for a mortgage and you don't qualify for the best
rate and best terms anymore, that would be really sad
because that could cost you literally thousands of dollars. So
if that's the case, you need to use your credit
score for a significant purchase in the near future. Will

(46:03):
hold off, don't do it yet. But if that's not
the case, then your score will likely have time to recover,
and so you can take this route if you really
want to. All right, Matt, let's get back to the
beer that we had on today's episode. This one is
called Juice Quest. It's a hazy ipa by the good
folks over at Scofflaw Brewing.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
What were your thoughts? Well, my first thoughts are at
the top. It says be the main character, which I
don't like that, like you'll start like inspirational me seeing
like the main main character energy like on billboards or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
I don't love like inspiration from my breweries, like give
me good beer. I don't necessarily need a pep talk.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I will say the reason. It's got like an eight
bit design motif going on, and so I understand, be
the main character your journey starts now. It's got a
very like Zelda like like quality to it. And when
I think about that, it makes me think I should
really like the branding. But I don't know. It's just
not really resonating with me. But the actual beer in
this case is definitely resonating with me. Man, this is

(46:59):
like a classic hazy IPA super clean. Actually, you and
I this is a beer that we enjoyed somewhat recently
at a conference, and I was shocked at how tasty
it was. It's the reason I went and picked up
a six pack because Scotflaw they make some solid beers,
but typically not ones that I go out of my
way for but I really freaking like this one. It's

(47:20):
so good. I like to too.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
It's not like a plus plus, but it's like a
solid A this is. This could be like a fridge
staple if you exactly super into Hazy Eye Peace, especially
because it comes and I'm a big fan of this.
The twelve ounce six pack. I know, the four pack
sixteen ounce thing is taken off. That's what people are
into these days. I when I crack a beer, oftentimes Matt,
which I don't do as often anymore, saying I just

(47:42):
want one twelve ounce beer, You're not looking for a
full sixteen ounce that's right. I mean I'm even sharing
a twelve ounce beer sometimes with Kate, right because we
enjoy beer on the show, and so I'm trying to
keep my my craft beer in check. Yes, to be honest,
we're too old to be drinking like three beers a day.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
So this is a good beer. This is one.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
I think I would keep it in the fridge because
it is significantly juicy. Gonna be able to get it locally,
It's going to be fresh.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
I like this one too, So all right, let's going
to do it, Matt. For this episode, we'll put links
to some of the resources that we mentioned up in
the show notes. On our website at howtomoney dot com.
There's a bunch more helpful personal finance info for you
that exists up there all the time. Head to how
to money dot com.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
You won't be disappointed, all right. So until next time,
best friends out, Best Friends Out,