April 25, 2025 • 36 mins
Time for a Friday Flight- our little sampling of the week’s financial news and what it means for your personal finances. There are a lot of headlines out there, but we boil them down to specific takeaways that will allow you to kick off the weekend informed and help you to get ahead with your money. In this episode we explain some relevant and helpful stories like: student loan repayments resume, debt defaults, the rise of 84 month car notes, VIP investments, tapping money in a turbulent market, strategic Roth conversions, regretful retirees, working less for FIRE sustainability, mini-retirements, timeshares, copycat hotel sites, and getting a REAL ID.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Head of Money. I'm Joel Matt.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Today we're talking debt defaults, VIP investments, and regretful retirees.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's right, buddy, this is our Friday flight.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, we're going to cover the most pertinent headlines, the
personal finance stories that you need to pay attention to
and how it's going to impact your money. That's what
we're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Today, but before every Friday, That's true.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Before we get to that, though, I think you had
a word to say specifically about China. You're all about
the Chinese terrorists. Right, I've been to China. We covered that,
We covered that on Monday. Right enough enough. Yeah, we're
actually taking a nice tariff break today, tariffresh but which
feels refreshing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It does feel good.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
But after that episode aired on Monday, we had multiple
listeners email in about it. But listener ed in particular
he I just appreciated his email because he spent a
good bit of time in some of these factory towns
in China and he was essentially saying, Hey, one of
the reasons we can't compete with the price of Chinese goods,
(01:19):
and it's kind of something that you and I touched
on and this is why he wrote that email. The
bid factory and the dormitories essentially on the premise of
that electric carmaker in China, and they've made a lot
more progress on their vehicles because of the fact that
they don't have as much And I don't know if
I can say the respect for human life is That's
(01:40):
kind of what Ed was getting at, was the way
they treat workers in China is far inferior to the
protections that we have for workers here in the United States.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
The US is a we're not perfect, right, Like that's
the thing, Like we've got our own skeletons in our closet,
like in fact.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
We fought a civil war because of the.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Truly crimes against humanity that we've that we partook in ourselves.
But there's a big difference too, I guess between that
like well, I don't know one hundred and fifty two
hundred years ago or so versus I guess it being
something that is going on now. And it's tough though,
because like what do you it's tough to untangle our
own spending from Chinese goods, Like that's what's just what
(02:23):
it feels, just like such a knot that is going
to be so difficult to untie and.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Accordion not yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So I just appreciate AD's email, and I think it
does shine a light on just the vast differences that
we have as countries and how we think about the
people who man the factories, people who produce the goods,
and the freedom that we allow people in the United States,
which produces some of the best results for a lot
of companies, but it also means that we can't compete,
I guess, especially on the lower end of this manufacturing spectrum.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
At least not from not until we get our robotics
in place. But then who's making the robotics. I know,
you need robots to make the robots first, So we
got to get that initial round of like, you know what,
we're going to do this for America. We got to
build a factory that's going to make all the robots
that's going to then make everything else.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Definitely companies working on that. I know Elon's working on it.
There are other companies like working to make robots that
do all sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, which is cool.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Can we make and create factories that compete with the
factories in China that mass produce goods, I mean, and
just the size and scope of some of those factories
and the level of technology that they've implemented. I don't know,
like we'll see that remains to be seen.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
That's true. All right.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Let's talk about some really important news happening right now, Matt.
Let's talk about student loan debt collection, which it was
announced this week essentially that hey, the federal government, the
Department of Education, is going to start collecting on student
loans that aren't being paid on. And Linda McMahon, the
Secretary of Education, she wrote an op ed this week
(03:52):
in the Wall Street Journal. She basically explained the need
to collect on loans if payments aren't being made. And
this is I would say, from have the last administration
handled student loans?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Sure, the attempts or they weren't handling it, Yeah, punding
it down the road. We're going to ignore that these
exist for everybody.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Then the attempts at forgiveness that didn't come to pass,
And the Secretary of Education basically said, the drop dead
date to start making payments is May fifth, right, So
that's just around the corner. And so if you don't
if you're not able to make those payments, you're going
to see a meaningful drop in your credit score. A
lot of folks already have. And then the most extreme cases,
(04:32):
she highlighted that some people could have their wages garnished,
and they could even have starting next year in all
likelihood they're tax refunds taken back if they haven't been
paying on their student loans. So I think this is
a call to not put your head in the sand.
If you have student loans and you're like, what do
I owe? Am I current? Am I paying right now?
Log into your account, check out the loan simulator on
(04:52):
the Education Department's website, and then I think something like
forty percent of borrowers are current on payments right now, Matt.
So there's just a lot of people, well probably a
lot of people listening to this podcast right now, that
haven't been paying, partly also because they're not sure if
they're supposed to. So just this could turn into into
a messy situation for millions and millions of folks. It
could have wider impacts on the economy too.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Would say to how Money listeners, it's more like eighty
percent of them are probably current, Like we hold a
higher standard here at How to Money, don't we kill?
And we're actually going to have a student loan expert
on the show next week, so stay tuned for that.
But while we're talking about debt, dude, it is not
just student loans.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
While at HUB, they reported that credit card debt is
up as.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Well, and so are delinquencies. Defaults were up thirty four
percent year over year from twenty twenty three to twenty
twenty four, and inflation and rising interest rates have been
a double way and me causing more folks to rely
on their credit cards in order to get by. And then,
of course what happens They find themselves with a balance
that is growing, they have a payment that's too much
(05:56):
to handle.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
And this isn't just younger folks as well.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Over half of folks who are aged fifty to sixty four,
so that subset, they have a recurring credit card balance
as well.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I mean, it seems like this always seems like something that, oh,
it's a young people's thing.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
You don't have enough they have and they haven't learned
how to handabsack or yeah, the cards.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That was shocking to me. It's no longer the case.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
The people in their fifties and early sixties still have
this problem with credit cards.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, they've got these recurring balances and many are gonna
end up paying more in interest than their overall actual
balance and the overall actual charges that they put on
that card. It's a compounding you're doubling down on these
poor decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Essentially.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
It makes me think back to an early episode, like
way back in the day that we did I'm assuming
we did it on debt, but we're talking about interest
rates and how I pictured an escalator and it's just like, Okay,
you can ride these interest rates up by receiving interest payments,
by having your money at a Hygeld savings account for instance,
and so those interest rates you can just stand there
on that step. Man, it'll take you up to that
(06:52):
next level, or if you can supercharge it by you
putting forth a little bit of effort as well. So
that's the guy that's walking up the sater and you
know what, they're going to get there real quick. But
if you're trying to get to that next level and
the escalator is coming down, well you take that first step.
What happens boom, right, you're right back down to ground level,
and so you have to work so much harder to
escape in this case that.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Credit card balance. Yes, so just yeah, just keep that
in mind. It is nefarious.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And I think a lot of people assume, ah, a
little bit, it's not that bad. But truly, even just
you know, a few thousand dollars in credit card debt
and paying the minimum, like, what that does to your
finances every month. It's a big deal. And so I
think it's crucial to come up with the plan. If
you're one of these folks who does have credit card debt,
you're hanging on too. We have resources on how to
money dot com to help, and if you or someone
(07:37):
you know is like overwhelmed by credit card debt, there
are organizations, nonprofit organizations that can help you out. Money
Management International and the National Foundation for Credit Counseling are
two places you should at least consider going to low
cost or free help and the places that you hear
advertise the for profit places, be careful before you reach
(08:02):
out to those folks. They will often take a lump
sum of money and they might not might or might
not be able to help you out oftentimes not let's
add just a little bit more bad debt news here,
real quick, Matt. One in five car buyers are now opting,
as it turns out, for eighty four month loans when
they buy a new car. So this is new stats
from Edmunds.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Hate this.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It gets two hates, yeah and double hate, and it's
it's because it's the only way they can afford the
car they want. They're saying, well, hey, well the rising
cost of cars, interest rates going up to that's impacted
how much I can afford and how much I can
take take out the loan that I can take out
on this car. And so if you go to the
eighty four month loan, that's seven years, so it's going
(08:45):
to take the pay off that car. And I think
what it reveals is that we as Americans have become
payment buyers, like fully all the way buy now, pay later,
And then when we think about what happens with credit
card loans, it's all about how much can I afford
right now this month, instead of thinking about our wealth
building strategy from a more long term perspective. But this trend,
(09:08):
it's got cascading consequences. None of what you're good, yeah,
because we want people to pay cash for us whenever possible.
And we also realize that some people find themselves in
a bind and they can't write even if they're looking
for a cheaper used car. Hey, it's not possible. I've
got to find some way to borrow some money. And
I think forty eight month loans are the max amount
(09:29):
you should consider.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Longer loans.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
They just mask affordability problems, they don't actually solve them, and.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Truly at that point, So one of the key things
you said is that people aren't able to afford the
car that they want. Like, if you're in a position
where you are it, Yeah, in fact, you are in
a pinch. You don't have the cash on hand to
be able to purchase a used vehicle. Like you need
to look at the vehicle that you need to get
you from point A to point B to get you
to your job, if that's what you need for to
take the kids to school, whatever it is that you
need to for, as opposed to thinking about how.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
This car is going to make me feel the wants
it doesn't really. And I was talking to someone just
the other day, Matt, and they owe something seventeen thousand
dollars on their car, and he was talking about, Oh,
there's this great deal on this this other truck, and
it's like it's way it's priced way lower than it
should be. Man, what a deal fifty something thousand dollars.
But if I trade this in, gosh, then think I'm
(10:17):
gonna think about how much I'm gonna owe and of
course so much money, dude, Like I try my best
to help to hold your tongue, but.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Also how much advice do you want on that? Do
you know what I do every day?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's the kind of thing that people find themselves in.
We see more negative equity loans and stuff like that too.
And yeah, when you trade in a car that you
owe money on and you roll that into the new loan,
not only are those terms gonna be worse, the payment's
going to be higher. Like how long are you going
to be underwater in that car? And what happens if
there's some sort of emergency in your life. What we've
done with financing vehicles is preposterous in this country, and
(10:51):
so many people their finances are suffering largely because of
this exactly that I'm taking on more debt that I
need to for vehicles, and there's not enough money for
the other important necessities.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
These are the folks who are still on the escalator
and they're not they're not stopping at ground level. It's
like taking them down into the basement with a boiler
and that's not where you want to be.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, but dude, let's shift gears.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Let's talk about investing because the market has been on
pins and needles in recent months. You know, whether it's
the whether it's the word. Yeah, all right, I thought
we were going to avoid the terrorists. But that's why
I said the T word. I just didn't want to
say it all. Whether we're talking about terrorists, we're talking
about truth, social posts, perhaps about firing JR. Own Pal
and then him Trump saying that's the.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Other tea word. I guess true, be like, oh no,
I'm actually not going to.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Fire him because of that. The market is reacting to
this instability, to this uncertainty, and some have made changes
and uh, unfortunately they've panic sold again.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
We hold a very high standard here. A hout of money.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I don't think that's something that anybody in the how
to money community has done. But as we're talking about
investing here, we want folks to know that it looks
like pretty soon you're gonna have access to even more
investment choices in your four oh one K, including private equity,
which you're thinking, all right, here's the ticket, this is
how i'm this is what's going to get me to
(12:12):
that next level. Forget the escalator. This is like an
elevator that's going to shoot me straight to the top.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
It sounds awesome, You're getting access to these rare VIP
investments that only rich folks currently enjoy, but when you
in fact dig a little deeper, it's not.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
All that great.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
There aren't many private equity ETFs, and then the ones
that actually do exist, they come with really high fees,
and like the real truly wealthy folks out there who
are investing with private equity, they're not taking the ETF
route here. They're often for like real private equity that
most folks can access unless they're a credited investor. Morning
(12:48):
Star will link to this article, but they summed it
up pretty perfectly. At the moment, these ETFs look like
a distraction, which I completely agree with Man transparencies, low
fees are high, and the benefits up here very questionable.
This is very good advice from the good folks over
at Morning Stars.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, you're just gonna hear people telling you about how man,
how cool is it that you can now invest in
stuff that you you weren't able to before. Look at
the finally the investments of the rich available to you
as a normy.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But doesn't sound like good water cooler talk as well.
They're like, you know, I'm thinking, I'm I'm gonna switch
over and do a little bit of private equity. You know,
I'm gonna dabble on that a little bit. Don't do it, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
One question mat that's come up more recently on the
show and from listeners is is what if you're at
the point where you need to tap investments and the
market is down That that's a question I think on
the mind of a lot of retirees, parents with five
twenty nine plans, right, they've got money in there that
they need to use in the near future. That I
think we took a question for one of those folks
on Monday. A couple of things here. One, make sure
(13:49):
you change your asset allocation as you get closer to
needing the money that you have been saving and investing
four years and potentially decades. One hundred percent stocks being
all the way in on an S and P five
hundred fund when you're a month from retirement, right or
if you have a high school senior, that's just too risky.
It's totally fine for people who are in the wealth
(14:10):
building phase of their lives and they're like a long
way off from needing to tap those funds. But if
you're like, hey, pres sure I'm need those soon and
you're taking on too much risk, well, just know that
can come back to bite you. And for some people
it has also know this drawing down funds at the
absolute peak of the market every single time, that would
be awesome, but it's also it's also a pipe tream.
(14:32):
You want to have enough flexibility, You want to have
enough cash on your side where you can avoid taking
out huge chunks during a significant bear market. But it's
also important to keep in mind that you can't time
your withdrawals perfectly. And I think the stock market's down
something like six percent from its all time highs, And
you also have to keep the bigger picture in mind.
Remember how far those dollars, how much those dollars have grown,
(14:53):
how far, how far they've come. Working behind the scenes
on your behalf, and we assume it's Matt. We feel
a lot is more keenly than we fill win. So
six percent draw down, even if there's been a massive
run up in the market over the past like fifteen years, overall, well,
we feel about six percent blip downwards a heck of
a lot more than we feel the positives of the
wealth we've been able to build. The recent dip not ideal,
(15:16):
but if you've been investing for years or for decades,
you've grown those dollars meaningfully. Still, you've got to remember that,
and you've just got to know what your risk tolerance.
And hopefully this recent bout of market volatility has helped
inform people of what their risk tolerance can and should
be moving forward.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
That is true.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, it's not much comfort I think for folks who
have to have access to that money now, But for
folks who you know, they are a few years off
what you said a word you said a flexibility, and
so much of it I think comes down to flexibility.
And you're not only from an income standpoint, because I
think that's one big part of it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
It's just like, Okay, do I have the ability to
perhaps generate some additional income to be able to pay
for whatever you're looking to pull those investments out for.
In the case of I'm thinking about five twenty nine,
is it's like, well, we're planning to count on that,
but okay, in the future or next year, next couple
of years, do you think you have the ability to
perhaps cash flow more of that as opposed to pull
those investments out. So that's a certain amount of flexibility.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But then the ability to.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Adjust how much you're spending is on you know, that's
the other side of the equation, Right, So is there
a gap year that's taking place. Again, we're talking about
college here, but from a retirement standpoint, what does retirement
spending look like? If that's something that there is a
little bit more flexibility on, that is one way to
go to You got to find that balance between de
risking and avoiding the sequence of returns risk, Right, That's
(16:33):
what we're talking about here with the fact that the
stock market goes up three out of four years, and
so there's also the stark reality of that there is
a higher likelihood of seeing a positive return than a
negative return. So it often does come down to your
how comfortable you are are with risk.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And yeah, that flexibility even for someone who's saying, oh,
I was planning on retiring next year, Well, it might
not be ideal, but you might be able to work
another year or two longer to make sure that you've
got enough money stocked up and that you're not retiring
into the teeth of a downturn.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, you also said you mentioned how the recent dip
hasn't been ideal. I feel like that there's a lot
of confusion too around that, because in large part that
has to do with the fact that people have different
definitions of what buy the dip means. Because if you
are somebody who isn't investing and people start talking about
buying the dip, and you're like, you know, essentially what
you're doing is timing the market. But there's a big
(17:28):
difference between that and regularly investing in the market and saying,
you know, I've got some extra cash on hand, I've
got a fully stocked emergency fund. Let's go ahead and
pour some of that money into some investments that I
would have eventually purchased. It reduces the emergency fund there
a little bit. But like that's smart, that's savvy, Like
that's taking advantage of a set. Don't deplete it, but
don't deplete it. No, absolutely not. But that's like when
(17:50):
we see a sale at the grocery store. It's no different. Literally,
I did this yesterday. Coffee was on sale, and what
did I do? I bought a few extra pounds of it,
and I pulled some of that consumption forward. Word and
in the same way, I think it's fine to take
advantage of the dip in prices, pull some of that
consumption forward, pull some of that investing forward. But the
(18:10):
problem I think is is when that buy the dip
mentality derails what you would normally consume or what you
would normally when you keep cash on the sidelines and
you're waiting for the dip and take. What happens When
that's the case, you're missing out on gains along the way. Yeah,
Or if you're attracted to investments that you otherwise would
not be attracted to, could you see something plummet and
you're like, ooh, maybe instead of voo oh, it's time
(18:33):
to buy a bit more Tesla because their their stocks
in the tank, and that's Is that a part of
your overall investing plan?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
If so, then okay, maybe consider that, but otherwise I
think the distraction element of it is I think the
worst part.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, yeah, so I think like timing the market with
new contributions, that's not our favorite. Like if you are
trying to hold onto cash to buy the dip, well,
you probably should have just been investing regularly along the way.
I think there is one kind of sort of market
timing exception possibility, and that is when we're talking about
Roth conversions. And so if you've been a big investor
in like traditional tax advantage accounts, and you've built up
(19:08):
a big nest egg of traditional four oh and k
traditional IRA asss, we'll think about that potential future tax bill.
And if you're worried about how much tax you might
be paying down the road because you have socked away,
you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundred thousands of dollars
or millions or more of dollars, think about doing strategic
(19:29):
Wroth conversions. But you don't want to just start converting
one of the market drops. You want to consider your
current tax rate, your potential future tax rate, potential future
income drops, because that could also make Wroth conversions make
sense for you. And there are calculators out there, Matt
that I was like search around the internet for this week.
Fidelity has a great one. Bolden is a website that
(19:49):
has another will link to those.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh that's a new one. I haven't used them.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I've heard of them before. We links to those
in the shows. They're really good. And when you look
at how much money you could potentially save by doing
Roth conversions, there's a lot to take in consideration. You
don't want to just willy nilly markets down. Let me
go do some Roth conversions. There's a lot of data,
like I said, you have to take into consideration, but
it could dramatically reduce overall, like the overall amount of
taxes that you pay if you do it properly and
(20:13):
if you're smart about when and how you do those.
But all right, we've got more to get to, including
we're gonna talk about time shares and just how rotten
those timeshare presentations can be. You've actually been to one,
right I have. All right, let's talk about that and
get your story I'll share. Okay, we'll get to that
and more right after this.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
We've got more Friday flight goodness to get to today.
And of course now it is time for the ludicrous
headline of the week. This one is from the Globe
and Mail. In the headline reads, they worked hard to
retire early, now they're dealing with regrets. And this article
profiles the quintessential early fire adherents, specifically up in Canada,
(21:00):
who worked as hard as they possibly could in order
to be done with work forever.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And then of course they just realized.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It was a giant mistake and that they wish they
wouldn't have done that. They expressed similar regrets of actually
working too hard where they were missing out on hobbies
and relationships along the way. And then, of course what
happens they encounter a serious amount of boredom after abandoning
the work world altogether, Like.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Where are my friends at Dude? Thought we were gonna
hang out. Oh wait, they're still working.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
It's amazing how much structure and intellectual stimulation work can
provide us. It's just incredibly ironic how the thing that
allowed anybody who has retired early so working hard, oftentimes
working a lot, or earning a fat paycheck, that those things,
oftentimes are the things that are keeping you from being
able to develop the other aspects of life that make
(21:47):
life truly. I don't want to say worth living, but
that just rounded out and you remove this one element.
So not only, of course, are you missing out on
oh man, I'm not getting an income anymore, but also,
oh man, all my friends are still in there makes
me think of Severance, which you haven't watched, Still haven't kay,
And I actually recently finished season two.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Some folks aren't happy with how it ended. I also
can't wait to see where it goes next. I'm a
huge fan. But I'm mentioning this because we have to
be so incredibly intentional and proactive when it comes to
fostering and cultivating and growing the other aspects of life
that we can oftentimes just completely forget about, like I'm
talking about physical health, intellectual stimulation, relationships specifically was highlighted
(22:33):
in this article. The ability to grow these areas of
our lives in ways that require that just think in iota,
honestly of thought. And unfortunately, that's just a touch more
than what most folks are doing. And of course there's
folks wo are finding a whole lot of yeah, sadness,
regret they're going back to work when they don't need
to need the money.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, big chunks, something like sixty percent of those people.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Because it provides some of the some of the structure,
which is fascinating.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
We've seen that in our own lives of friendships with
people in the fire space, and yeah, it's there's some
like the first month you're just recovering from burnout essentially
from the job you had, and then after that you
start twiddling your thumbs. You're like, what am I going
to do? And maybe you pick up a project or two,
But there's so much time in the day then, and
you don't have the people around you that you want
(23:17):
to spend that you want to spend that time with
so often and many of them have gone back to
get jobs. Sometimes it's some nice gig work and stuff
like that, which has been interesting to watch. So I
don't know, maybe instead of fire we should think about
working longer, like not retiring at age forty and working
fewer hours now. And interestingly enough, Gallup found that that's
(23:38):
been a real trend actually over the past five years
that full time employees have been reducing the number of
hours they work on average, and this is basically a
post COVID trend where young workers they've limited work hours
even more, they've reduced the number of hours that they
work by about two hours a week, which, when you
think about it, I mean that's that's a decent chunk
(24:00):
of like what six percent off of your work week
every week. That's kind of a big deal. And as
Gallup put it, they said, over a year, that's the
equivalent of older employees taking an extra week off of
work and younger employees taking essentially an extra two weeks
off of work. Every single one of us has different goals,
and Matt and I aren't going to prescribe your goals
or the exact way to get them, because that's for
you to figure out. But yeah, while some of our
(24:23):
fire friends are really enjoying themselves, some of them aren't.
And we want you to think twice before you need
jerk jump up to like a seventy percent savings rate
or something like that, so you can quit work before
everyone else that you know and decide whether or not
that's the life you want, or if maybe a more
sustainable way is to reduce the amount of time that
you're putting toward work in the here now. I kind
(24:43):
of like this trend, Matt, where people are saying I'm
going to claw back some of my life now. I'm
not waiting till this verbial future retirement date.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Well, yeah, I mean none of us are promised that future.
I think that's one of the biggest things, right I'm
actually I'm still thinking about the Canadians, the Canadian fire adherents,
and how much of that do you think has to
do with the fact that they're in Canada, Like it's
colder up there, it's further north, there's less sunshine, and
so it's like truly the work day, like it's maybe
like the highlight.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It's.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
It's actually like spend time outdoors where there's all the
Canadian listeners out there.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Are going to send you all their hate. Man.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Well, even within the US, like I do wonder if
it's less of a problem in the US, because even
within the United States, folks are where are they moving.
They're moving to the sun Belt. They're moving to the
Southern States because they want to be in an environment
that's just more comfortable. And if you have to go
on a like a big vacation in order to experience
warm temperatures, there's a big difference between that and being
able to step outside going for a walk around like
(25:39):
the neighborhood or visiting the park, right, Like, that's way
more affordable. That's something that you can do on a
sustainable basis versus saying, all right, we gotta you know,
step out of the tundrum. Yeah, yeah, I know all
of Canada isn't frozen. No, I think like frozen desert.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Alberta for sure.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, but there's a lot of a lot of fantastic
there's a lot of Canada that's frozen and very cold, yes,
but there's also a lot of fantastic cities that are
basically the United States. Just the thought I had. But
one of the alternatives to like going crazy making massive
sacrifices in the here and now in order to be
able to retire early could look like taking what folks
(26:16):
are calling many retirements. This is actually something we've talked
about on the show a couple times, actually in the
more recent podcast episode History. But the New York Times
they just highlighted folks who have been jumping on this trend,
the mini retirement trend. And so instead of retirement being
this all or nothing sort of thing, a better goal
could be just taking some work breaks, like take a
(26:39):
month off, take a two or three months off. You
certainly plan for it, but you don't have to have
millions of dollars saved in order to pull this off.
You can use that time to travel. Certainly not mandatory though,
especially if you don't have the savings in order to
pull this off, it could just look like, you know,
taking an extended break.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Is a Katie North that we talked with recently, and
I thought she had a lot of good yes for
what it could look like to play a sabbatical and
to talk about kind of what goals you might be
seeking to achieve during that time.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Like yeah, yeah, and so yeah, whether or not you
kind of prescribe or subscribe to what Joel mentioned, which
is like, all right, finding a way to sort of
build a more sustainable lifestyle where you're still working, or
if you're looking for something where you're like, you know what,
I just need a bigger break. I think both of
these could be healthier alternatives too, jacking up that savings
(27:27):
right to extreme levels, so where you're planning to kick
work to the curb altogether, because man work provides ultimately
a lot of fulfillment.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, all right, let's talk about travel and let's specifically
talk about timeshares.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I saw an article this week about the writer basically said, hey,
I use a timeshare to get a discount of vacation.
The writer was able to score three nights in Vegas
for one hundred and fifty bucks, and then they snagged
like a bunch of Hilton points on top of it,
which was probably going to give them nice four or
five free hotel nights or something like that. Here's the
big reveal. I wrote that article just kidding. She did
(28:00):
something very similar in the past. And so the catch,
of course is that you have to attend a mandatory
timeshare presentation or your charge for the full price of
the stay. And so the author correctly outlines just how
costly a timeshare can be, which I appreciate in the article.
And then the ongoing fees they go up every single year.
(28:21):
And she didn't really talk about this much. But when
you think about the sales tactics that are often using
these timeshare presentations, they can be pretty intense, a lot
of pressure, man, and you might go from one salesperson
to another, being kind of shoved around from room to room,
kind of like hot lights. Under the hot lights or
something like that, like sign on the dotted line. Here's
how it greated is, here's the discount we're going to
(28:42):
offer you today.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
We employ the whole good cod back got oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, and I've got kids too. Let's trying to identify
with you, get down on your level. There are all
sorts of things that happen in a timeshare presentation that
could get you to sign on the dotted line when
you shouldn't. And so yeah, I don't know. I guess
I'm curious to hear your take. She was pretty thrilled
because she got to go on Vegas vacation saved for like,
you know, nine hundred.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Bucks or something.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Also, when I did it as well, Man, this it's
been years since we did this, but I attended one
of these during spring break in college. Actually I just
graduated college and I went on spring break with Kate
and her friends.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So it was a lot of fun. And as we're
checking into.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
The hotel, they're like, hey, by the way, if you
attend this timeshare presentation, you know, I don't even know
if they called it a timeshare presentation. I felt like
we were completely package.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, I feel like they weren't very clear as to
what it was all week. That word is so tainted.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Now they will try, but even at that point in time,
I don't know if we would have even known either way.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
All we knew was that we sit through this.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Meeting, we get free breakfast, including Momoss by the way,
which was a huge perk.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
We're like, oh, that sounds nice, fancy.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I didn't realize the spring break was gonna be so
nice as well as we each were.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Going to receive a one hundred dollar visa check card
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And dude, I don't know if it was because we
didn't have the money to spend, but we sat through
chatted with the lady. Actually, I do remember she turned
to us and said, y'all aren't going to sign anything
and get one of those are You? Were like, no,
we don't have the money to do that, and she
was like, well, you'd never know. Some kids were in here,
and we were kids at the time basically, but some
folks were in here last week and one of them
(30:11):
busted out an Amex black card, and at that point
in time, I didn't even know what an Amex black card.
I was like, oh, okay, sounds nice, but like it's
like an invite only sort of fancy card. They were
rolling in the money is basically what she was pointing to. Okay,
but it didn't take her long to realize that we
were not rolling. Would you do that same thing now?
It depends on how long, Right, you gotta know how
to value your time, Yeah, exactly. It depends on how
(30:33):
good the perk is. Because one hundred dollars gift card
to spend an hour and a half your time.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Like, I don't think I do that today.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
When you're twenty two, you're like, all right, huge deal
you Bucks is a huge deal. Yeah, that allowed us
to she made a lot more. She's gonna get a
bunch of free nights. Oh hotel stays on top of
that vacation. But you also just have to realize and
understand maybe how susceptible you might be to the hard sale,
because those timeshare presentations are not for the faint of heart.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Got to be able to say no.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Talk to someone else recently who said, man, they tried
to like bar the door on my way out, and
like it can get truly that sort of vicious in
a timeshare presentation. So I have not been to one.
It makes me want to do one, just so I
can talk about it here on the show, and just
so I can have had that experience.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Gosh, what was it? Was it last year? A couple
of years ago.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
There's a steak dinner that was being presented for something,
and you and I we thought about actually going because.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Oh yeah, and honestly it was a stay or the
insider pitch, but also is a.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
A like a pretty good steakhouse, and so we're just like,
why not? Then we could talk about it on the show,
But again it came down to us not We're like,
dang it, I don't want to drive all the way
in town that through the present day.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, on Thursday night, exactly. Yeah, Okay, let's talk about
hotels too. Booking a hotel can be kind of crazy
these days. There's all these third party sites, some of
what you've heard of, some of what you haven't, and
then prices can vary meaningfully, mostly because of extra fees
that are added from site to site, and it's tough
to know which ones are legit and if they're even
(31:57):
gonna save you money. Copycat hotel sites in particular are
ripping people off. This is according to an article from
the Wall Street Journal, and so even if they're showing
up in Google results, I think some people assume, Matt
that oh, if I google this hotel and a range
of dates, that whatever sites they feed me, they're probably
gonna be fine, Like I can book through here, and
I'm going to get a better deal.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Especially if it's a well designed site, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I think that's sometimes where folks are getting making not
making the best decision as well, because it's like, oh, man,
this actually looks I've been to the real web the
or the actual hotels website, but this looks even better.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
So certainly I'm going to get a better deal over here.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, but no, Alas it's not true. And the fees
are typically ridiculous. When you like what looks like a
better price initially, well, when you click all the way
through and you see the price after fees, you're going
to pay way too much. And most of these sites
are non refundable, like the rooms are non refundable on
those sites. So you make the booking and there's nothing
you can do about it. There's no recourse. I would say,
(32:54):
check the check the r L of the site that
you're looking at. When you're going to book a hotel
and just be careful where you book and.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
What seemed like.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I think you can still get a better deal on
hotels through hot wire and price line, but the deals
aren't as good as they used to be. Like ten
years ago, those sites were incredible and like the savings
you could get were ridiculous. But the hotel chains have
caught on and they are often offering great deals directly
to consumers when you book through their website. They're also
(33:23):
you might be able to get that refundable room in
case you're not sure about where you want to stay
and you want still the ability to shop around. Have
that bird in the hand, but just watch out where
you're booking and compare prices on multiple different sites, including
the hotel's website before you just like click book.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That's right, man.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
So speaking of travel, make sure your driver's license is
real ID compliant or you're not going to be able
to get on the airplane next time you are traveling
somewhere for a trip. This is, by the way, starting
a lot of deadlines. So May fifth for the student
loan being student loans being resumed. May seventh is the
deadline that's the cutoff for the real ID. And this
(34:03):
is yet another requirement that's been punted for years, but
it appears that this time they're actually sticking with it.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I swear it's been like five years. Yeah, I think
on this.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Apparently one in five folks traveling right now has not
updated their ID, which isn't good. That's gonna be a
lot of folks stranded at the airport leaving to you know,
snarls in the security line. Perhaps if you have updated
your license in recent years, you are likely ID real
ID compliant. But the way you can tell is there's
the little star up in the upper right hand corner.
(34:35):
That's the easiest way to know. Actually, most states have
the star. California they've got the awesome Grizzly bear.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
The star in the bear. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And there's actually a couple, I think Maine and Michigan
they've got like the star within the outline of the state,
which also looks cool.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
But not as cool as the Grizzly.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
But if you haven't upgraded, make sure that you booked
that DMV appointment as soon as possible. But you do,
there's another option though. Let's you're like, well, shoot, my flight,
I'm leaving this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
You'll be fine because this is not until May seventh.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
But let's say, let's just say you can't get that
that appointment made in time show with your passport, because
you can you are able to get on with your
a valid, unexpired passport.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So the real idea is essentially trying to make the
state id's federally compliant. And it's been a whole process.
But I think probably a lot of our listeners when
they've updated their license, like I swear, I've had mine
for a long, long long time now, but if you
haven't updated it, probably need to go do that so
you can actually get on a plane. All right, Matt,
that's going to do it for this episode. We'll put
(35:37):
links in the show notes to some of the stuff
we mentioned, and let's do a newsletter referral shout out
to one m One. Thanks for one. Thanks for referring
the head of Money newsletter to your friends and family,
so one, all of your closest to quaintance.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
He is flying through the ranks. He got the immediate
referral here. We bought him a beer recently as well,
so one.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
We appreciate you and you.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
If you refer to the had of Money years letter to
your friends and family, we'll mention your name here on
the podcast and maybe even buy your beer too if
you refer enough folks. That's right, so you can find
that at how tomoney dot com slash newsletter.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's gonna do it for this one. Until next time,
Best friends Out, Best Friends Out,
Welcome to Head of Money. I'm Joel Matt.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Today we're talking debt defaults, VIP investments, and regretful retirees.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's right, buddy, this is our Friday flight.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, we're going to cover the most pertinent headlines, the
personal finance stories that you need to pay attention to
and how it's going to impact your money. That's what
we're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Today, but before every Friday, That's true.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Before we get to that, though, I think you had
a word to say specifically about China. You're all about
the Chinese terrorists. Right, I've been to China. We covered that,
We covered that on Monday. Right enough enough. Yeah, we're
actually taking a nice tariff break today, tariffresh but which
feels refreshing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It does feel good.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
But after that episode aired on Monday, we had multiple
listeners email in about it. But listener ed in particular
he I just appreciated his email because he spent a
good bit of time in some of these factory towns
in China and he was essentially saying, Hey, one of
the reasons we can't compete with the price of Chinese goods,
(01:19):
and it's kind of something that you and I touched
on and this is why he wrote that email. The
bid factory and the dormitories essentially on the premise of
that electric carmaker in China, and they've made a lot
more progress on their vehicles because of the fact that
they don't have as much And I don't know if
I can say the respect for human life is That's
(01:40):
kind of what Ed was getting at, was the way
they treat workers in China is far inferior to the
protections that we have for workers here in the United States.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
The US is a we're not perfect, right, Like that's
the thing, Like we've got our own skeletons in our closet,
like in fact.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
We fought a civil war because of the.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Truly crimes against humanity that we've that we partook in ourselves.
But there's a big difference too, I guess between that
like well, I don't know one hundred and fifty two
hundred years ago or so versus I guess it being
something that is going on now. And it's tough though,
because like what do you it's tough to untangle our
own spending from Chinese goods, Like that's what's just what
(02:23):
it feels, just like such a knot that is going
to be so difficult to untie and.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Accordion not yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So I just appreciate AD's email, and I think it
does shine a light on just the vast differences that
we have as countries and how we think about the
people who man the factories, people who produce the goods,
and the freedom that we allow people in the United States,
which produces some of the best results for a lot
of companies, but it also means that we can't compete,
I guess, especially on the lower end of this manufacturing spectrum.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
At least not from not until we get our robotics
in place. But then who's making the robotics. I know,
you need robots to make the robots first, So we
got to get that initial round of like, you know what,
we're going to do this for America. We got to
build a factory that's going to make all the robots
that's going to then make everything else.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Definitely companies working on that. I know Elon's working on it.
There are other companies like working to make robots that
do all sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, which is cool.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Can we make and create factories that compete with the
factories in China that mass produce goods, I mean, and
just the size and scope of some of those factories
and the level of technology that they've implemented. I don't know,
like we'll see that remains to be seen.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
That's true. All right.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Let's talk about some really important news happening right now, Matt.
Let's talk about student loan debt collection, which it was
announced this week essentially that hey, the federal government, the
Department of Education, is going to start collecting on student
loans that aren't being paid on. And Linda McMahon, the
Secretary of Education, she wrote an op ed this week
(03:52):
in the Wall Street Journal. She basically explained the need
to collect on loans if payments aren't being made. And
this is I would say, from have the last administration
handled student loans?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Sure, the attempts or they weren't handling it, Yeah, punding
it down the road. We're going to ignore that these
exist for everybody.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Then the attempts at forgiveness that didn't come to pass,
And the Secretary of Education basically said, the drop dead
date to start making payments is May fifth, right, So
that's just around the corner. And so if you don't
if you're not able to make those payments, you're going
to see a meaningful drop in your credit score. A
lot of folks already have. And then the most extreme cases,
(04:32):
she highlighted that some people could have their wages garnished,
and they could even have starting next year in all
likelihood they're tax refunds taken back if they haven't been
paying on their student loans. So I think this is
a call to not put your head in the sand.
If you have student loans and you're like, what do
I owe? Am I current? Am I paying right now?
Log into your account, check out the loan simulator on
(04:52):
the Education Department's website, and then I think something like
forty percent of borrowers are current on payments right now, Matt.
So there's just a lot of people, well probably a
lot of people listening to this podcast right now, that
haven't been paying, partly also because they're not sure if
they're supposed to. So just this could turn into into
a messy situation for millions and millions of folks. It
could have wider impacts on the economy too.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
So yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Would say to how Money listeners, it's more like eighty
percent of them are probably current, Like we hold a
higher standard here at How to Money, don't we kill?
And we're actually going to have a student loan expert
on the show next week, so stay tuned for that.
But while we're talking about debt, dude, it is not
just student loans.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
While at HUB, they reported that credit card debt is
up as.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Well, and so are delinquencies. Defaults were up thirty four
percent year over year from twenty twenty three to twenty
twenty four, and inflation and rising interest rates have been
a double way and me causing more folks to rely
on their credit cards in order to get by. And then,
of course what happens They find themselves with a balance
that is growing, they have a payment that's too much
(05:56):
to handle.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
And this isn't just younger folks as well.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Over half of folks who are aged fifty to sixty four,
so that subset, they have a recurring credit card balance
as well.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I mean, it seems like this always seems like something that, oh,
it's a young people's thing.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
You don't have enough they have and they haven't learned
how to handabsack or yeah, the cards.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
That was shocking to me. It's no longer the case.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
The people in their fifties and early sixties still have
this problem with credit cards.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, they've got these recurring balances and many are gonna
end up paying more in interest than their overall actual
balance and the overall actual charges that they put on
that card. It's a compounding you're doubling down on these
poor decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Essentially.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
It makes me think back to an early episode, like
way back in the day that we did I'm assuming
we did it on debt, but we're talking about interest
rates and how I pictured an escalator and it's just like, Okay,
you can ride these interest rates up by receiving interest payments,
by having your money at a Hygeld savings account for instance,
and so those interest rates you can just stand there
on that step. Man, it'll take you up to that
(06:52):
next level, or if you can supercharge it by you
putting forth a little bit of effort as well. So
that's the guy that's walking up the sater and you
know what, they're going to get there real quick. But
if you're trying to get to that next level and
the escalator is coming down, well you take that first step.
What happens boom, right, you're right back down to ground level,
and so you have to work so much harder to
escape in this case that.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Credit card balance. Yes, so just yeah, just keep that
in mind. It is nefarious.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And I think a lot of people assume, ah, a
little bit, it's not that bad. But truly, even just
you know, a few thousand dollars in credit card debt
and paying the minimum, like, what that does to your
finances every month. It's a big deal. And so I
think it's crucial to come up with the plan. If
you're one of these folks who does have credit card debt,
you're hanging on too. We have resources on how to
money dot com to help, and if you or someone
(07:37):
you know is like overwhelmed by credit card debt, there
are organizations, nonprofit organizations that can help you out. Money
Management International and the National Foundation for Credit Counseling are
two places you should at least consider going to low
cost or free help and the places that you hear
advertise the for profit places, be careful before you reach
(08:02):
out to those folks. They will often take a lump
sum of money and they might not might or might
not be able to help you out oftentimes not let's
add just a little bit more bad debt news here,
real quick, Matt. One in five car buyers are now opting,
as it turns out, for eighty four month loans when
they buy a new car. So this is new stats
from Edmunds.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Hate this.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It gets two hates, yeah and double hate, and it's
it's because it's the only way they can afford the
car they want. They're saying, well, hey, well the rising
cost of cars, interest rates going up to that's impacted
how much I can afford and how much I can
take take out the loan that I can take out
on this car. And so if you go to the
eighty four month loan, that's seven years, so it's going
(08:45):
to take the pay off that car. And I think
what it reveals is that we as Americans have become
payment buyers, like fully all the way buy now, pay later,
And then when we think about what happens with credit
card loans, it's all about how much can I afford
right now this month, instead of thinking about our wealth
building strategy from a more long term perspective. But this trend,
(09:08):
it's got cascading consequences. None of what you're good, yeah,
because we want people to pay cash for us whenever possible.
And we also realize that some people find themselves in
a bind and they can't write even if they're looking
for a cheaper used car. Hey, it's not possible. I've
got to find some way to borrow some money. And
I think forty eight month loans are the max amount
(09:29):
you should consider.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Longer loans.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
They just mask affordability problems, they don't actually solve them, and.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Truly at that point, So one of the key things
you said is that people aren't able to afford the
car that they want. Like, if you're in a position
where you are it, Yeah, in fact, you are in
a pinch. You don't have the cash on hand to
be able to purchase a used vehicle. Like you need
to look at the vehicle that you need to get
you from point A to point B to get you
to your job, if that's what you need for to
take the kids to school, whatever it is that you
need to for, as opposed to thinking about how.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
This car is going to make me feel the wants
it doesn't really. And I was talking to someone just
the other day, Matt, and they owe something seventeen thousand
dollars on their car, and he was talking about, Oh,
there's this great deal on this this other truck, and
it's like it's way it's priced way lower than it
should be. Man, what a deal fifty something thousand dollars.
But if I trade this in, gosh, then think I'm
(10:17):
gonna think about how much I'm gonna owe and of
course so much money, dude, Like I try my best
to help to hold your tongue, but.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Also how much advice do you want on that? Do
you know what I do every day?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's the kind of thing that people find themselves in.
We see more negative equity loans and stuff like that too.
And yeah, when you trade in a car that you
owe money on and you roll that into the new loan,
not only are those terms gonna be worse, the payment's
going to be higher. Like how long are you going
to be underwater in that car? And what happens if
there's some sort of emergency in your life. What we've
done with financing vehicles is preposterous in this country, and
(10:51):
so many people their finances are suffering largely because of
this exactly that I'm taking on more debt that I
need to for vehicles, and there's not enough money for
the other important necessities.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
These are the folks who are still on the escalator
and they're not they're not stopping at ground level. It's
like taking them down into the basement with a boiler
and that's not where you want to be.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, but dude, let's shift gears.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Let's talk about investing because the market has been on
pins and needles in recent months. You know, whether it's
the whether it's the word. Yeah, all right, I thought
we were going to avoid the terrorists. But that's why
I said the T word. I just didn't want to
say it all. Whether we're talking about terrorists, we're talking
about truth, social posts, perhaps about firing JR. Own Pal
and then him Trump saying that's the.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Other tea word. I guess true, be like, oh no,
I'm actually not going to.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Fire him because of that. The market is reacting to
this instability, to this uncertainty, and some have made changes
and uh, unfortunately they've panic sold again.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
We hold a very high standard here. A hout of money.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I don't think that's something that anybody in the how
to money community has done. But as we're talking about
investing here, we want folks to know that it looks
like pretty soon you're gonna have access to even more
investment choices in your four oh one K, including private equity,
which you're thinking, all right, here's the ticket, this is
how i'm this is what's going to get me to
(12:12):
that next level. Forget the escalator. This is like an
elevator that's going to shoot me straight to the top.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
It sounds awesome, You're getting access to these rare VIP
investments that only rich folks currently enjoy, but when you
in fact dig a little deeper, it's not.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
All that great.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
There aren't many private equity ETFs, and then the ones
that actually do exist, they come with really high fees,
and like the real truly wealthy folks out there who
are investing with private equity, they're not taking the ETF
route here. They're often for like real private equity that
most folks can access unless they're a credited investor. Morning
(12:48):
Star will link to this article, but they summed it
up pretty perfectly. At the moment, these ETFs look like
a distraction, which I completely agree with Man transparencies, low
fees are high, and the benefits up here very questionable.
This is very good advice from the good folks over
at Morning Stars.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, you're just gonna hear people telling you about how man,
how cool is it that you can now invest in
stuff that you you weren't able to before. Look at
the finally the investments of the rich available to you
as a normy.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
But doesn't sound like good water cooler talk as well.
They're like, you know, I'm thinking, I'm I'm gonna switch
over and do a little bit of private equity. You know,
I'm gonna dabble on that a little bit. Don't do it, yep.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
One question mat that's come up more recently on the
show and from listeners is is what if you're at
the point where you need to tap investments and the
market is down That that's a question I think on
the mind of a lot of retirees, parents with five
twenty nine plans, right, they've got money in there that
they need to use in the near future. That I
think we took a question for one of those folks
on Monday. A couple of things here. One, make sure
(13:49):
you change your asset allocation as you get closer to
needing the money that you have been saving and investing
four years and potentially decades. One hundred percent stocks being
all the way in on an S and P five
hundred fund when you're a month from retirement, right or
if you have a high school senior, that's just too risky.
It's totally fine for people who are in the wealth
(14:10):
building phase of their lives and they're like a long
way off from needing to tap those funds. But if
you're like, hey, pres sure I'm need those soon and
you're taking on too much risk, well, just know that
can come back to bite you. And for some people
it has also know this drawing down funds at the
absolute peak of the market every single time, that would
be awesome, but it's also it's also a pipe tream.
(14:32):
You want to have enough flexibility, You want to have
enough cash on your side where you can avoid taking
out huge chunks during a significant bear market. But it's
also important to keep in mind that you can't time
your withdrawals perfectly. And I think the stock market's down
something like six percent from its all time highs, And
you also have to keep the bigger picture in mind.
Remember how far those dollars, how much those dollars have grown,
(14:53):
how far, how far they've come. Working behind the scenes
on your behalf, and we assume it's Matt. We feel
a lot is more keenly than we fill win. So
six percent draw down, even if there's been a massive
run up in the market over the past like fifteen years, overall, well,
we feel about six percent blip downwards a heck of
a lot more than we feel the positives of the
wealth we've been able to build. The recent dip not ideal,
(15:16):
but if you've been investing for years or for decades,
you've grown those dollars meaningfully. Still, you've got to remember that,
and you've just got to know what your risk tolerance.
And hopefully this recent bout of market volatility has helped
inform people of what their risk tolerance can and should
be moving forward.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
That is true.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, it's not much comfort I think for folks who
have to have access to that money now, But for
folks who you know, they are a few years off
what you said a word you said a flexibility, and
so much of it I think comes down to flexibility.
And you're not only from an income standpoint, because I
think that's one big part of it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
It's just like, Okay, do I have the ability to
perhaps generate some additional income to be able to pay
for whatever you're looking to pull those investments out for.
In the case of I'm thinking about five twenty nine,
is it's like, well, we're planning to count on that,
but okay, in the future or next year, next couple
of years, do you think you have the ability to
perhaps cash flow more of that as opposed to pull
those investments out. So that's a certain amount of flexibility.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But then the ability to.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Adjust how much you're spending is on you know, that's
the other side of the equation, Right, So is there
a gap year that's taking place. Again, we're talking about
college here, but from a retirement standpoint, what does retirement
spending look like? If that's something that there is a
little bit more flexibility on, that is one way to
go to You got to find that balance between de
risking and avoiding the sequence of returns risk, Right, That's
(16:33):
what we're talking about here with the fact that the
stock market goes up three out of four years, and
so there's also the stark reality of that there is
a higher likelihood of seeing a positive return than a
negative return. So it often does come down to your
how comfortable you are are with risk.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And yeah, that flexibility even for someone who's saying, oh,
I was planning on retiring next year, Well, it might
not be ideal, but you might be able to work
another year or two longer to make sure that you've
got enough money stocked up and that you're not retiring
into the teeth of a downturn.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, you also said you mentioned how the recent dip
hasn't been ideal. I feel like that there's a lot
of confusion too around that, because in large part that
has to do with the fact that people have different
definitions of what buy the dip means. Because if you
are somebody who isn't investing and people start talking about
buying the dip, and you're like, you know, essentially what
you're doing is timing the market. But there's a big
(17:28):
difference between that and regularly investing in the market and saying,
you know, I've got some extra cash on hand, I've
got a fully stocked emergency fund. Let's go ahead and
pour some of that money into some investments that I
would have eventually purchased. It reduces the emergency fund there
a little bit. But like that's smart, that's savvy, Like
that's taking advantage of a set. Don't deplete it, but
don't deplete it. No, absolutely not. But that's like when
(17:50):
we see a sale at the grocery store. It's no different. Literally,
I did this yesterday. Coffee was on sale, and what
did I do? I bought a few extra pounds of it,
and I pulled some of that consumption forward. Word and
in the same way, I think it's fine to take
advantage of the dip in prices, pull some of that
consumption forward, pull some of that investing forward. But the
(18:10):
problem I think is is when that buy the dip
mentality derails what you would normally consume or what you
would normally when you keep cash on the sidelines and
you're waiting for the dip and take. What happens When
that's the case, you're missing out on gains along the way. Yeah,
Or if you're attracted to investments that you otherwise would
not be attracted to, could you see something plummet and
you're like, ooh, maybe instead of voo oh, it's time
(18:33):
to buy a bit more Tesla because their their stocks
in the tank, and that's Is that a part of
your overall investing plan?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
If so, then okay, maybe consider that, but otherwise I
think the distraction element of it is I think the
worst part.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, yeah, so I think like timing the market with
new contributions, that's not our favorite. Like if you are
trying to hold onto cash to buy the dip, well,
you probably should have just been investing regularly along the way.
I think there is one kind of sort of market
timing exception possibility, and that is when we're talking about
Roth conversions. And so if you've been a big investor
in like traditional tax advantage accounts, and you've built up
(19:08):
a big nest egg of traditional four oh and k
traditional IRA asss, we'll think about that potential future tax bill.
And if you're worried about how much tax you might
be paying down the road because you have socked away,
you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundred thousands of dollars
or millions or more of dollars, think about doing strategic
(19:29):
Wroth conversions. But you don't want to just start converting
one of the market drops. You want to consider your
current tax rate, your potential future tax rate, potential future
income drops, because that could also make Wroth conversions make
sense for you. And there are calculators out there, Matt
that I was like search around the internet for this week.
Fidelity has a great one. Bolden is a website that
(19:49):
has another will link to those.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh that's a new one. I haven't used them.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I've heard of them before. We links to those
in the shows. They're really good. And when you look
at how much money you could potentially save by doing
Roth conversions, there's a lot to take in consideration. You
don't want to just willy nilly markets down. Let me
go do some Roth conversions. There's a lot of data,
like I said, you have to take into consideration, but
it could dramatically reduce overall, like the overall amount of
taxes that you pay if you do it properly and
(20:13):
if you're smart about when and how you do those.
But all right, we've got more to get to, including
we're gonna talk about time shares and just how rotten
those timeshare presentations can be. You've actually been to one,
right I have. All right, let's talk about that and
get your story I'll share. Okay, we'll get to that
and more right after this.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
We've got more Friday flight goodness to get to today.
And of course now it is time for the ludicrous
headline of the week. This one is from the Globe
and Mail. In the headline reads, they worked hard to
retire early, now they're dealing with regrets. And this article
profiles the quintessential early fire adherents, specifically up in Canada,
(21:00):
who worked as hard as they possibly could in order
to be done with work forever.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And then of course they just realized.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
It was a giant mistake and that they wish they
wouldn't have done that. They expressed similar regrets of actually
working too hard where they were missing out on hobbies
and relationships along the way. And then, of course what
happens they encounter a serious amount of boredom after abandoning
the work world altogether, Like.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Where are my friends at Dude? Thought we were gonna
hang out. Oh wait, they're still working.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
It's amazing how much structure and intellectual stimulation work can
provide us. It's just incredibly ironic how the thing that
allowed anybody who has retired early so working hard, oftentimes
working a lot, or earning a fat paycheck, that those things,
oftentimes are the things that are keeping you from being
able to develop the other aspects of life that make
(21:47):
life truly. I don't want to say worth living, but
that just rounded out and you remove this one element.
So not only, of course, are you missing out on
oh man, I'm not getting an income anymore, but also,
oh man, all my friends are still in there makes
me think of Severance, which you haven't watched, Still haven't kay,
And I actually recently finished season two.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Some folks aren't happy with how it ended. I also
can't wait to see where it goes next. I'm a
huge fan. But I'm mentioning this because we have to
be so incredibly intentional and proactive when it comes to
fostering and cultivating and growing the other aspects of life
that we can oftentimes just completely forget about, like I'm
talking about physical health, intellectual stimulation, relationships specifically was highlighted
(22:33):
in this article. The ability to grow these areas of
our lives in ways that require that just think in iota,
honestly of thought. And unfortunately, that's just a touch more
than what most folks are doing. And of course there's
folks wo are finding a whole lot of yeah, sadness,
regret they're going back to work when they don't need
to need the money.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, big chunks, something like sixty percent of those people.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Because it provides some of the some of the structure,
which is fascinating.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
We've seen that in our own lives of friendships with
people in the fire space, and yeah, it's there's some
like the first month you're just recovering from burnout essentially
from the job you had, and then after that you
start twiddling your thumbs. You're like, what am I going
to do? And maybe you pick up a project or two,
But there's so much time in the day then, and
you don't have the people around you that you want
(23:17):
to spend that you want to spend that time with
so often and many of them have gone back to
get jobs. Sometimes it's some nice gig work and stuff
like that, which has been interesting to watch. So I
don't know, maybe instead of fire we should think about
working longer, like not retiring at age forty and working
fewer hours now. And interestingly enough, Gallup found that that's
(23:38):
been a real trend actually over the past five years
that full time employees have been reducing the number of
hours they work on average, and this is basically a
post COVID trend where young workers they've limited work hours
even more, they've reduced the number of hours that they
work by about two hours a week, which, when you
think about it, I mean that's that's a decent chunk
(24:00):
of like what six percent off of your work week
every week. That's kind of a big deal. And as
Gallup put it, they said, over a year, that's the
equivalent of older employees taking an extra week off of
work and younger employees taking essentially an extra two weeks
off of work. Every single one of us has different goals,
and Matt and I aren't going to prescribe your goals
or the exact way to get them, because that's for
you to figure out. But yeah, while some of our
(24:23):
fire friends are really enjoying themselves, some of them aren't.
And we want you to think twice before you need
jerk jump up to like a seventy percent savings rate
or something like that, so you can quit work before
everyone else that you know and decide whether or not
that's the life you want, or if maybe a more
sustainable way is to reduce the amount of time that
you're putting toward work in the here now. I kind
(24:43):
of like this trend, Matt, where people are saying I'm
going to claw back some of my life now. I'm
not waiting till this verbial future retirement date.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Well, yeah, I mean none of us are promised that future.
I think that's one of the biggest things, right I'm
actually I'm still thinking about the Canadians, the Canadian fire adherents,
and how much of that do you think has to
do with the fact that they're in Canada, Like it's
colder up there, it's further north, there's less sunshine, and
so it's like truly the work day, like it's maybe
like the highlight.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It's.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
It's actually like spend time outdoors where there's all the
Canadian listeners out there.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Are going to send you all their hate. Man.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Well, even within the US, like I do wonder if
it's less of a problem in the US, because even
within the United States, folks are where are they moving.
They're moving to the sun Belt. They're moving to the
Southern States because they want to be in an environment
that's just more comfortable. And if you have to go
on a like a big vacation in order to experience
warm temperatures, there's a big difference between that and being
able to step outside going for a walk around like
(25:39):
the neighborhood or visiting the park, right, Like, that's way
more affordable. That's something that you can do on a
sustainable basis versus saying, all right, we gotta you know,
step out of the tundrum. Yeah, yeah, I know all
of Canada isn't frozen. No, I think like frozen desert.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Alberta for sure.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, but there's a lot of a lot of fantastic
there's a lot of Canada that's frozen and very cold, yes,
but there's also a lot of fantastic cities that are
basically the United States. Just the thought I had. But
one of the alternatives to like going crazy making massive
sacrifices in the here and now in order to be
able to retire early could look like taking what folks
(26:16):
are calling many retirements. This is actually something we've talked
about on the show a couple times, actually in the
more recent podcast episode History. But the New York Times
they just highlighted folks who have been jumping on this trend,
the mini retirement trend. And so instead of retirement being
this all or nothing sort of thing, a better goal
could be just taking some work breaks, like take a
(26:39):
month off, take a two or three months off. You
certainly plan for it, but you don't have to have
millions of dollars saved in order to pull this off.
You can use that time to travel. Certainly not mandatory though,
especially if you don't have the savings in order to
pull this off, it could just look like, you know,
taking an extended break.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Is a Katie North that we talked with recently, and
I thought she had a lot of good yes for
what it could look like to play a sabbatical and
to talk about kind of what goals you might be
seeking to achieve during that time.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Like yeah, yeah, and so yeah, whether or not you
kind of prescribe or subscribe to what Joel mentioned, which
is like, all right, finding a way to sort of
build a more sustainable lifestyle where you're still working, or
if you're looking for something where you're like, you know what,
I just need a bigger break. I think both of
these could be healthier alternatives too, jacking up that savings
(27:27):
right to extreme levels, so where you're planning to kick
work to the curb altogether, because man work provides ultimately
a lot of fulfillment.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, all right, let's talk about travel and let's specifically
talk about timeshares.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I saw an article this week about the writer basically said, hey,
I use a timeshare to get a discount of vacation.
The writer was able to score three nights in Vegas
for one hundred and fifty bucks, and then they snagged
like a bunch of Hilton points on top of it,
which was probably going to give them nice four or
five free hotel nights or something like that. Here's the
big reveal. I wrote that article just kidding. She did
(28:00):
something very similar in the past. And so the catch,
of course is that you have to attend a mandatory
timeshare presentation or your charge for the full price of
the stay. And so the author correctly outlines just how
costly a timeshare can be, which I appreciate in the article.
And then the ongoing fees they go up every single year.
(28:21):
And she didn't really talk about this much. But when
you think about the sales tactics that are often using
these timeshare presentations, they can be pretty intense, a lot
of pressure, man, and you might go from one salesperson
to another, being kind of shoved around from room to room,
kind of like hot lights. Under the hot lights or
something like that, like sign on the dotted line. Here's
how it greated is, here's the discount we're going to
(28:42):
offer you today.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
We employ the whole good cod back got oh for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, and I've got kids too. Let's trying to identify
with you, get down on your level. There are all
sorts of things that happen in a timeshare presentation that
could get you to sign on the dotted line when
you shouldn't. And so yeah, I don't know. I guess
I'm curious to hear your take. She was pretty thrilled
because she got to go on Vegas vacation saved for like,
you know, nine hundred.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Bucks or something.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Also, when I did it as well, Man, this it's
been years since we did this, but I attended one
of these during spring break in college. Actually I just
graduated college and I went on spring break with Kate
and her friends.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So it was a lot of fun. And as we're
checking into.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
The hotel, they're like, hey, by the way, if you
attend this timeshare presentation, you know, I don't even know
if they called it a timeshare presentation. I felt like
we were completely package.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, I feel like they weren't very clear as to
what it was all week. That word is so tainted.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Now they will try, but even at that point in time,
I don't know if we would have even known either way.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
All we knew was that we sit through this.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Meeting, we get free breakfast, including Momoss by the way,
which was a huge perk.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
We're like, oh, that sounds nice, fancy.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I didn't realize the spring break was gonna be so
nice as well as we each were.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Going to receive a one hundred dollar visa check card
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And dude, I don't know if it was because we
didn't have the money to spend, but we sat through
chatted with the lady. Actually, I do remember she turned
to us and said, y'all aren't going to sign anything
and get one of those are You? Were like, no,
we don't have the money to do that, and she
was like, well, you'd never know. Some kids were in here,
and we were kids at the time basically, but some
folks were in here last week and one of them
(30:11):
busted out an Amex black card, and at that point
in time, I didn't even know what an Amex black card.
I was like, oh, okay, sounds nice, but like it's
like an invite only sort of fancy card. They were
rolling in the money is basically what she was pointing to. Okay,
but it didn't take her long to realize that we
were not rolling. Would you do that same thing now?
It depends on how long, Right, you gotta know how
to value your time, Yeah, exactly. It depends on how
(30:33):
good the perk is. Because one hundred dollars gift card
to spend an hour and a half your time.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Like, I don't think I do that today.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
When you're twenty two, you're like, all right, huge deal
you Bucks is a huge deal. Yeah, that allowed us
to she made a lot more. She's gonna get a
bunch of free nights. Oh hotel stays on top of
that vacation. But you also just have to realize and
understand maybe how susceptible you might be to the hard sale,
because those timeshare presentations are not for the faint of heart.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Got to be able to say no.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Talk to someone else recently who said, man, they tried
to like bar the door on my way out, and
like it can get truly that sort of vicious in
a timeshare presentation. So I have not been to one.
It makes me want to do one, just so I
can talk about it here on the show, and just
so I can have had that experience.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Gosh, what was it? Was it last year? A couple
of years ago.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
There's a steak dinner that was being presented for something,
and you and I we thought about actually going because.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Oh yeah, and honestly it was a stay or the
insider pitch, but also is a.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
A like a pretty good steakhouse, and so we're just like,
why not? Then we could talk about it on the show,
But again it came down to us not We're like,
dang it, I don't want to drive all the way
in town that through the present day.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, on Thursday night, exactly. Yeah, Okay, let's talk about
hotels too. Booking a hotel can be kind of crazy
these days. There's all these third party sites, some of
what you've heard of, some of what you haven't, and
then prices can vary meaningfully, mostly because of extra fees
that are added from site to site, and it's tough
to know which ones are legit and if they're even
(31:57):
gonna save you money. Copycat hotel sites in particular are
ripping people off. This is according to an article from
the Wall Street Journal, and so even if they're showing
up in Google results, I think some people assume, Matt
that oh, if I google this hotel and a range
of dates, that whatever sites they feed me, they're probably
gonna be fine, Like I can book through here, and
I'm going to get a better deal.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Especially if it's a well designed site, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I think that's sometimes where folks are getting making not
making the best decision as well, because it's like, oh, man,
this actually looks I've been to the real web the
or the actual hotels website, but this looks even better.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
So certainly I'm going to get a better deal over here.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, but no, Alas it's not true. And the fees
are typically ridiculous. When you like what looks like a
better price initially, well, when you click all the way
through and you see the price after fees, you're going
to pay way too much. And most of these sites
are non refundable, like the rooms are non refundable on
those sites. So you make the booking and there's nothing
you can do about it. There's no recourse. I would say,
(32:54):
check the check the r L of the site that
you're looking at. When you're going to book a hotel
and just be careful where you book and.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
What seemed like.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I think you can still get a better deal on
hotels through hot wire and price line, but the deals
aren't as good as they used to be. Like ten
years ago, those sites were incredible and like the savings
you could get were ridiculous. But the hotel chains have
caught on and they are often offering great deals directly
to consumers when you book through their website. They're also
(33:23):
you might be able to get that refundable room in
case you're not sure about where you want to stay
and you want still the ability to shop around. Have
that bird in the hand, but just watch out where
you're booking and compare prices on multiple different sites, including
the hotel's website before you just like click book.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
That's right, man.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
So speaking of travel, make sure your driver's license is
real ID compliant or you're not going to be able
to get on the airplane next time you are traveling
somewhere for a trip. This is, by the way, starting
a lot of deadlines. So May fifth for the student
loan being student loans being resumed. May seventh is the
deadline that's the cutoff for the real ID. And this
(34:03):
is yet another requirement that's been punted for years, but
it appears that this time they're actually sticking with it.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I swear it's been like five years. Yeah, I think
on this.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Apparently one in five folks traveling right now has not
updated their ID, which isn't good. That's gonna be a
lot of folks stranded at the airport leaving to you know,
snarls in the security line. Perhaps if you have updated
your license in recent years, you are likely ID real
ID compliant. But the way you can tell is there's
the little star up in the upper right hand corner.
(34:35):
That's the easiest way to know. Actually, most states have
the star. California they've got the awesome Grizzly bear.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
The star in the bear. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And there's actually a couple, I think Maine and Michigan
they've got like the star within the outline of the state,
which also looks cool.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
But not as cool as the Grizzly.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
But if you haven't upgraded, make sure that you booked
that DMV appointment as soon as possible. But you do,
there's another option though. Let's you're like, well, shoot, my flight,
I'm leaving this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
You'll be fine because this is not until May seventh.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
But let's say, let's just say you can't get that
that appointment made in time show with your passport, because
you can you are able to get on with your
a valid, unexpired passport.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So the real idea is essentially trying to make the
state id's federally compliant. And it's been a whole process.
But I think probably a lot of our listeners when
they've updated their license, like I swear, I've had mine
for a long, long long time now, but if you
haven't updated it, probably need to go do that so
you can actually get on a plane. All right, Matt,
that's going to do it for this episode. We'll put
(35:37):
links in the show notes to some of the stuff
we mentioned, and let's do a newsletter referral shout out
to one m One. Thanks for one. Thanks for referring
the head of Money newsletter to your friends and family,
so one, all of your closest to quaintance.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
He is flying through the ranks. He got the immediate
referral here. We bought him a beer recently as well,
so one.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
We appreciate you and you.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
If you refer to the had of Money years letter to
your friends and family, we'll mention your name here on
the podcast and maybe even buy your beer too if
you refer enough folks. That's right, so you can find
that at how tomoney dot com slash newsletter.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
That's gonna do it for this one. Until next time,
Best friends Out, Best Friends Out,
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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