February 14, 2025 • 35 mins
Time for a Friday Flight- our little sampling of the week’s financial news and what it means for your personal finances. There are a lot of headlines out there, but we boil them down to specific takeaways that will allow you to kick off the weekend informed and help you to get ahead with your money. In this episode we explain some relevant and helpful stories like: biltong on a budget, culling of coins, financial fights, trad money, BTC is for kids, college level personal finance, phantom wealth, manifesting more money, improvident internet, squandering streaming, more taxes for more internet, and taking the long view on taxes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
today we're talking about purging pennies, financial fights, and phantom wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I can't hear phantom Joel, and not think of Phantom Planet.
Did you ever listen to a pandom planet back? And
then what did they do the theme song for the
O C California? Oh yeah, or even Phantom Limb. I
never really watched that show, Phantom Limb. That was a good,
good Chin's song. Oh okay, yeah, you didn't watch the
OC back. You were like a touch younger than me,
and so when I was in college, like we would
have OC watching parties. Oh yeah, because there's only like
(00:49):
two sets of friends who paid for cable?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Was it wasn't it basically like a modernized version of
Beverly Hills nine or two went?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Now? Okay, yeah, I've never really gotten nostalgia as I
think back. But now this is our Friday flight, a
quick sampling of the different stories we've come across, and
we're specifically going to address how they are going to
impact your dollars. But Joel, so you want to try
to get everybody on like this beef jerkey train. Now
that you're as you might try to brainwash everyone into
(01:15):
thinking that meat it's the only category of food that
you actually need in your life.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I'm able to get behind that, although I do think
I would get bored if like meat was my own
league food group. But I think it belongs with the
most meals Matt.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, five meals all meat, and then on the six
meal you throw a little bit of brocoli in there, right,
exactly normally all year old.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Maybe not quite that extreme, but a couple of my
buddies have started making their own beef turkey. It's specifically
South African variety called Biltong, and I had it samples
at their house and I was like, Okay, that's pretty delicious.
Let me give this a go, and I will link
to the YouTube video that I used and that they
used to figure out how to do this.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
The guy explains that he walks to it really well,
send me the link, because I've had your Biltong and
it's amazing. It's good, and you've been withholding the deats
from me.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Okay, So the video, like he like Crystal Clear, walks
you through it super simple, incredibly inexpensive. You don't really
need any special equipment, like literally the coolest parts about.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It, Yeah, the fact that, yeah, you're explaining how yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's not like you need a smoker, right, which is
like hydrator or anything like that. You can you can
like legit, just cure it and then hang it up
in my pantry, is what was My wife was like,
what are you doing? Looks a little wild, It looks
a little sketch, doesn't look safe, but the final product
is pretty darn tasty. So and when you think about
how much something like beef turkey costs, even at a
place like Costco, it's crazy expense, so expensive.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So this is like.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Denser, better, you know everything, It's going into higher quality stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I could not believe. So Kate I had a Christmas
stocking stuffer, uh huh, and she got me a couple
of packs of like some of this fancy oh I
wish I could remember the name of it, but it's
like this fancy beef jerky that she picked up at
Whole Foods. So I thought, you could say BUCkies not
a little bit nicer than that. But she forgot to
scratch off the price tag and I went to you know,
g I was like, oh, thank you know that cracked
(02:59):
and I was like, oh my gosh, it was so
I could not believe how much does the bag it was?
It came down to something like ten dollars an ounce, Wow,
which is crazy. Yeah, and uh, it's not apples to
apples though when you're comparing it, like, obviously it's going
to be more affordable when you do it at home.
But like when you think about price per ounce of
meat or price per pound of a traditional hunk of meat,
(03:20):
like what did you just say? Oh, you have to
dry this stuff out, so you are losing weights as
you go through the aging process. How many days did
you ge it? By the way, about five days? Awesome?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And so in the week get cut in half. So
let's say ask you twenty five bucks for two and
a half pounds of beef.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So really you're looking at pounding a quarter.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, well no, that's after after those five pounds of.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
You already calculated it down. It is like a concentrated
amount of food, which is part of what's attractive about it.
You got some of those concentrated flavors. But I like
what you said too, I've got a snack out there
on the hiking trails, Yes, exactly, Well, because typically I
would rather. I'm like, all right, would rather have a
juicy steak, some try tip or some jerky, some built
on your case, and I'm probably gonna typically go with
(04:02):
like the juicy, but like, like, I mean, if you're
traveling though, if you're on the road, if you're hiking,
that's a great opportunity to bring along your little stash.
Doesn't weigh much of some of this high quality meat,
and so the quality of it. You don't have preservatives,
which typically that's what you're gonna find in some of
the stuff that you buy on the shelves in order
for it to remain shelf stable. And it's not like
(04:22):
you're keeping this around for months and months now you
don't need it, there's no preserve. The lasts for like
three weeks, four weeks in the fridge, so and then
it only gets better, right, No, like a dry dry
age rabbi where they have to like cut mold off.
That seems weird. Hopefully we're not going to get to
this point. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But it's fun to have a new hobby, and it's
fun to have a hobby that tastes.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Good, that's delicious that also ends up saving you a
ton of money. If you are a big fan of
the beef turkey or what makes it built on versus
regular jerky bats. Good question. I do think beef tricky.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Maybe what sets out apart is that you maybe are
are dehydrating it in some way.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So it's dryer. Because what I try some years and
it was more like cured meat, like.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Somewhere in between, kind of like a salami and a beach.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's like something you get on a shark utery board. Yeah,
it still has some moisture. Yeah, Yeah, it was totally legit.
I was really impressed, especially given that it was your first.
But something that the two of us have talked about
for years now is how worthless pennies are. Pennies mattered
a whole lot more like a long time ago, right
like even decades ago, but digital payments have essentially killed
the need for the penny to exist. But then on
(05:26):
top of that inflation as well. They're expensive to make,
costing multiple times to mint that's the proper word for
creating pennies than what they're actually worth when they're put
into circulation. They cost something like three point seven cents
per penny to create.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And I know my Grandma remembers the time when pennies mattered,
that we're just not living in that time.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
No man. And so one of the orders within the
flurry of Trump administration executive orders is to order the
Treasury Secretary to stop making new pennies. And this is
something that's been proposed by Republicans in the past, by
Democrats as well. We are not sad to see the
penny go the way of the Dodo bird. I think
this should be slam dunk easy thing for everyone to
(06:07):
get behind. Who's clinging to the penny? Who are you?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Who are these people who say, no, please, please keep
the penny around. Nobody picks up pennies anymore. They becomes
hoby value. I don't even pick up pennies anymore. And like,
I'm the kind of I'm the guy that likes to
find money on the ground. Oh yeah, but the things
you have brought home that you picked up off the
curb are are weird and various.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But you don't pick up pennies, you know what. We
live out in the burbs, though. If your folks put
stuff out on the curb, they just throw it away. Yeah.
I think that's something I noticed about living in the city,
folks are I don't know, are folks more frugal and.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
More conscientious about it getting a second life. But out
here folks are like, I just sent it to the landfill.
I guess there is nicer stuff with the good will maybe,
or oh that's it. I think the good wills are nicer.
That's what they're doing with it, they're donating it. Yeah,
all right, sorry to cast a spurs burd folks, but okay,
so matter if we get rid of the penny, do
we also need to get rid of the nickel. It
kind of opens up that can of works. Where do
(06:54):
you stop the culling of the coins, which actually would
have been another.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Good days forget.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Like, once we start talking, I realized, well, so CNN
had an article about nickels too, and how much of
a problem they might be. So CNN's like, hey, now
we need to go hogwhile on this and that basically
the cost to make a nickel is and I was
shocked to see this. I didn't realize this because the
penny thing has been well documented. But apparently it cost
fourteen cents to make a nickel, which is.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
A little less than three times whereas the penny is
a little more than three times.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah so, but still like the gap is insane between
that's a lot of money to make a dollar amount
or send them out. Yeah, dimes and quarters at least
are worth more than they cost to manufacture. But not
only are these coins expensive relative relative to their worth,
but they slow down transactions. I and maybe I shouldn't
get annoyed, but when people pay with cash and coins
in front of me, now I'm at it does it?
(07:43):
Just it irks me a little? And I want to
be like yea with the times.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But that's it's a part. I need busy on the go.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I got places to be I need to get over
that people to see, beers to drink, right exactly. The
National Association of Commedian Storts agrees with me, I think,
because they, for instance, would like to see small coins
down away with because it does add more time at
the cash register. And as one economists put it, Matt,
they said, when people start leaving a monetary unit at
the cash register for the next customer, essentially they're citing
(08:10):
it's insignificance. The unit is too small to be useful.
I think pennies have been too small to be useful
for a while now, and I'm not sad to see
them go zero tier shed over here.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well okay, so one practical use that we have for
pennies and nichols is do y'all ever play thirty one
with the kids? The card game. It's a good game,
straightforward enough for them to understand. You know. It's like
where the aces. Aces are worth eleven points, face cards
are ten on you try to get thirty one and
if you do games over, everyone loses. Okay, the game.
The goal of the game is to not lose, essentially,
and you can call it whenever you want. The goal
(08:40):
of most games, well, no, some games of the goal
is to win. But the goal in this game is
to be good enough to not lose. And we used
to use pennies and nickels and dimes and stuff just
as a way to keep score kind of. But lately
what we told them is like, hey, you need to
come to the table with your own money, because it
provides they got more skin in the game and it
makes fun a little more interesting. So I would be
(09:02):
sad from that standpoint. I would maybe hoard some pities
and nagles just to be able to have on hand
to facilitate game playing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Well, I think we should say this doesn't mean the
pennies are going away. It just because you won't print
and create new pennies.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
But eventually, what that's going to mean is that over time,
they're gonna get they're gonna degrade, and they're gonna be
They're all gonna be in the cacation and in people's jars,
in their closet, in the game closet. Yeah, exactly. Okay,
since it's Valentine's Day, let's talk about fighting with your partner, buddy.
Hopefully you can not like I'm trying to avoid that,
so your business partner, but yeah, we're talking about romantic
partners here. Hopefully you can avoid that. But a new
(09:36):
survey finds that a third of couples are uncomfortable talking
about money at all in the relationships. And on average,
couples argue about money something like fifty eight times a year,
which is a lot if that's more than once a week.
So no wonder their reticence approach the subject of money
of personal finances, and on one hand arguing it's not
(09:58):
the worst thing in the world, right, I think it
depends on what the argument looks like. I think healthy
arguing can be productive. It shows that you care about something,
and you know what's worse to argue about something in
a healthy or productive way or just to just not
care at all, to where you're not even bringing it up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Can I share a little anecdote. I remember my pa,
my grandpa, telling me that he and my grandma never
ever fought, and so I was like, oh, that sounds awesome.
I don't really like fighting, so I'm hoping for that
same thing in my relationship. I remember telling Emily that
early on, and she laughed at me and said that
was really dumb and sorry, but we're probably gonna have arguments,
and it's true we have. But I agree with you,
(10:36):
Matt that I think just studying expectations of relationship, I
appreciate that. I think arguments have been productive for the
most part for us, although not always, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
For the most part. It shows you care, and I
think at least one of the ways to help maybe
change the dynamic within a relationship is just to agree
on some shared dreams, to cast a vision of what
you want your future to look like. I think it's
going to be easier to cut back in other areas
in life in other ways, and when you're shooting for
the same goals, when you can recognize that you're on
the same team trying to achieve the same things. Yeah,
(11:06):
just something to keep the money. I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I just do hate that people argue about money so much.
Oh yeah, And I think a lot of those arguments
are not terribly productive. And part of that is because
there hasn't been enough of that sort of team mindset,
and there's probably a separation of finances, but in the couple, right,
so it's like, hey, this is my money I'm bringing in,
that's your money. And that's happening more and more as
(11:29):
couples get married or come together at a later date,
they've already kind of amassed a certain amount of money,
maybe bought a home, maybe made some investments, and it's like, well,
this is mine, that's yours, And then it's really hard,
I think, to kind of pull in the same direction.
And the truth is, another way to fight less in
your marriage or in your partnership is to combine finances more.
And this isn't rocket science, but the more you overlap
(11:51):
finances when you're married, though, the more transparent you make
your money, and the easier it is to work together.
The New York Times just wrote an article about this.
They found that or couples are segregating their finances, which
is something that we have definitely seen, especially in the
questions we get from our listeners, and that makes it
harder to navigate. But there is research out there saying
that it's not going to be the best way to
(12:13):
move forward. The Journal of Consumer Research found that couples
who combine finances they're happier, they're more committed to one another,
And to me, this shows that there's mutual trust built
up when you're pulling in the same direction and when
you have that added transparency. So I think seeing those
stats about fighting about money, well, if you want to
not be a statistic, if you want to fight less
(12:34):
about money, or you at least do want those more
productive fights instead of the ones where you're just at
each other's throats, Combining those accounts, dreaming big together, that
is at least part of the solution I think for
most people.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I love it man. Yeah, so we don't often plug
other people's podcasts, but we're both fans of honestly, that's
Barry weiss Her and her team over at the Free Press.
But she just had an episode where she had this
an expert on talking about relationship little advice, and it
was fascinating that her prescription one of her recommendations when
it came to love and sex as well, but it
(13:07):
was much more traditionally conservative in nature, and she even
admitted that, hey, I grew up very progressive, very you know,
left leaning, very liberal, and based on the research and
what she found, she essentially like recreated from the ground
up this way of approaching relationships that is traditionally very conservative,
and it was all based not on like religion or
(13:30):
anything like that, but just based on the evidence, based
on stats and the success of relationships and the benefit
to society and how benefit women and children as well.
It's super fascinating. If you haven't listened to that one,
I'd recommend checking out. Okay, let's talk about paying for college.
We saw an article where Bloomberg was highlighting the fact
that many parents are investing within bitcoin for their kids
(13:54):
as opposed to opting for you know, the good old
traditional investments in a five nine plan. And the reason
is that they think that returns on traditional stocks aren't
going to be good enough to fund the high cost
of college, so they're taking on a bit more risk here.
And it's true that the inflation on college tuition has
been crazy over the past few decades, as well as
(14:15):
the fact that your term stock market return predictions aren't
necessarily all that rosy. And in addition to that, only
bitcoin it has been brilliant since its inception if you
look all the way back.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, so how many better investments over the past, like
what twelve fourteen years?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So you take all three of these things, kind of
stir them together in a pot, and you might come
to a conclusion that, like, hey, bitcoin is the way
to go, But you can't buy bitcoin inside of a
five to twenty nine plan, so you're missing out on
the tax benefits of that particular account. If your state
offers a five twenty nine plan, a good one with good,
good investment options and low fees. But the five twenty
(14:51):
nine is better than it's ever been now thanks to
new rules about it being able to be converted into
a wrath down the road. And so we are a
bit more bullish on nine plans then we used to be.
So just keep that in mind. It might be this
might be a good instance to keep those investments a
little bit more separated. All four. If you are interested
in bitcoin, sure have a little bit of exposure for
(15:12):
yourself and even your kids. I think that's totally fine
as well, but as always, just keep that limited to
five percent of your overall portfolio and maybe don't co
mingle those investments with the money and the funds that
you're looking to pay for college with.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, I guess I just get nervous about people saying, no,
this is the ticket to pay for my kids college.
I'm seeing these headlines about bitcoin to a million. One
bitcoin is gonna be worth a million dollars in the
next couple of years, and that sounds great. And if
that comes to pass and you have some exposure to bitcoin,
(15:45):
that's fantastic for you, right, But I would just be
nervous about putting all my eggs in that one basket.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Oh yeah, and we would.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
That's just part of diversification, right, is to not have
all those eggs.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
In one basket.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And if you're overly allocated to bitcoin and you're missing
out on the tax breaks and just the greater diversification
when you're investing for your kids future, I can just
see that coming back to bite you in the butt.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, well, we have no money leftover for college. Man.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There's another article about, speaking of college, how personal finance
courses are becoming more normal, not just in high schools
across the country, which we've seen a lot of growth
in there, but in colleges, and how schools like UNLV,
cal Berkeley, and Stanford have them and they're working to
bring more to campuses across the country. Actually, the Stafford
(16:30):
course is taught by friend of the show, Adam Nash,
who's been on the guy who runs Data, the.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Donor advised fund platform that were fans of.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
That's right, and it's interesting, like not everyone has to
take these courses, unlike many of these high schools where
it's mandatory, but they seem kind of cool and Adam
Nash is the way he explained his course, and I've
looked through kind of the documents, like his syllabus, and
I love kind of his approach to talking about personal finance.
And the truth is a country, we just need more
personal finance help altogether. Even brilliant students out a school
(17:00):
like Stanford, they don't come to college knowing personal finance
inside and out. And most of them just don't have
much knowledge on that front. And personal finance is getting
more complex as the financial system gains more complexity, and
everyone knows Matt, I think the real solutions is listening
to how the money is free nine to nine. That's right,
it's free. And uh, we're funny and great and just
(17:23):
a pleasure to be.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
With, funny ish sometimes we're cringe. But my problem it
does come down to the cost. And I think that's
my biggest personal hang up with especially gosh, personal paying
for personal finances, finance classes and those credit hours cost. Yes,
I mean, really, we're gonna I'm going to fork out money.
I wanna pay money to like an Ivy League college
in order to teach my kids how to save money.
(17:46):
I have a hard time not thinking that that's a
total waste of my money.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I would tell today, not because I hate personal finance,
because obviously I love it, but I would be like, no,
let's how about you read this book. Let's come with
our own curriculum. Here's a couple podcasts you can listen to.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That everyone has that ex experience, has that upbringing, or
parents who have that upbringing as well to where they're
even talking about it as a couple. They're within the family. Yeah,
but it's not rocket science. The basic formulas to spend
less than you make, invest the rest and then listen
to hown of money for all the rest of the details.
I mean, And there are a lot of details, and
we talk about a lot of the details on this show.
But yeah, it's it's The basics are certainly not rocket science.
(18:21):
But you should stick around and listen to more amount
of money because it's the right prescription for what ails
you on the personal finance front. Yeah, you get beef
curing tips from Joel.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So many good things you didn't expect on today's episode.
All right, there's more to get to, Matt, including are
we overpaying for internet and are there ways to combat that.
We'll get to that and more right after this.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
All right, buddy, we are back from the break. It
is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week,
which this week is from Fast Company. Headline reads, Millennials
are plagued by fantom wealth. Why the generation doesn't feel
rich despite their net worth quadrupling? Did you know that
millennials net worth is quadruple Jrol has yours quadrupled? Mat yes,
(19:07):
it has out of tupled. I will say millennials as
a cohort have outlasted the tremors of the Great Recession, right,
like that was the big It's like, oh man, you've
got this generation going into adulthood, leaving college. They got
their degrees, Now they can't get jobs.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
All those headlines early on were about how millennials were
never going to recover, and they have things.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We're looking pretty dour. We've seen our network skyrocket especially,
I would say over the past six years, but the
millennial crowd has hit their stride. From a work and
from an income perspective, networks have increased. But a lot
of folks around our age they don't actually feel wealthy,
and that's typically because their money is tied up in
(19:46):
liquid assets like their home. All right, Like you've seen
your home equity increase, but it's tough. It's tough to
pull that money out of that tangible or like you're
four to one k. A lot of listeners, especially millennial listeners,
have had hopefully if it was an automatic it's something
that they did themselves. But a lot of employers now
are auto enrolling their new employees.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It's like they got the message. They stuck more than
their four one k and they're happy about seeing their
net worth balloon. But they also can't touch.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That money either. But that's also kind of a part
of it, right, Like part of building wealth is not
touching the majority of it. For quiet a while, makes
me think of Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's late partner, where
he said, like the number one rule of compounding is
to not interrupt it unnecessarily, which is so true. So
the fact is you're doing it right. This is how
(20:31):
you build wealth. This is how you're going to be
able to retire in your later years. But that being said,
if you're investing so much that you feel poor where
you can't even enjoy a craft beer equivalent, I would say,
maybe you're doing it wrong, Like maybe you've cut back
in every single area of your life. It's a part
of why that's something that we always talk about, Joel
craft beer or maybe in your case now it's craft meat.
(20:51):
By the ability to spend in some ways, it seems
kind of silly, but it's something that lights you up.
That's important as well to live life in the here now,
or especially early on when you might be aggressively saving.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Don't forego some of those things that matter right while
you're trying to save up and invest for the future,
because if you do, you are going to have those
negative feelings. And I do think that's ultimately harmful, and
it causes a lot of people to say, why am
I investing for this thing forty years down the road?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Why don't I just yobo?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And yeah, that's why you have to have balance in
your approach. And Matt, if you want to boost your
savings straight, there's new evidence that you should be more optimistic.
A new study from the American Psychological Association finds that
being optimistic about the future may help people save more money,
and people who described themselves as more optimistic they ended
(21:39):
up saving a higher percentage of their income. And that
applies across the income spectrum, whether you were bringing home
six figures or whether you're bringing home half that and so,
as the study said, optimism appears to exert a slightly
stronger influence on savings behavior than financial literacy and risk tolerance.
Which is kind of crazy to think that, like, just
(22:02):
being more optimistic matters more than learning more about money.
So maybe people can turn this off and just go
like tap into their inner optimism.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Maybe that's gonna be more beneficial. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
But your mindset is I think more powerful than most
people give it credit for. And I don't think this
is necessarily like manifesting something into existence, which maybe some
gurus would encourage you to do. I think it's more
believing that good things are coming down the pike that
gets you excited for the future. And the truth, I mean,
optimists tend to live longer as well. There's evidence about that.
(22:34):
So it's a good idea for us all to work
on seeing the good because we will save more harm money,
be the more.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Thoughtful about our future, and we'll have a longer future.
That's right. Man. Let's talk about utilities Internet specifically, because
seeing that they recently published an article about overpaying for
their Internet, and I think with more folks working from home,
I think there's even more of an attraction to maybe
pay premium rates for fast inner that. But it turns
(23:00):
out too many folks are paying for speeds that they
don't really actually use, or speeds that they don't actually need,
and so opting to go from like a more premium
speed of like three hundred megabits per second down to
one hundred megabits per second, that might be a brilliant
financial move. So much of this depends on what you're
using your internet connection for, how often you're using it.
(23:21):
So like you're let's say you do like you're uploading
massive files, Okay, maybe you do need to pay pay
attention up speed. That's probably critical for you to be
able to do your job efficiently. If you've got multiple
folks or family members whatever, streaming on different devices at
the same time, maybe you want to pay more as well.
But you know, I think similar to buying the unlimited
(23:43):
data cell phone plan, when you're on Wi Fi most
of the time at home, I think you might be
paying too much. This might be an instance where it's
just money going to waste. Man. And this also makes
me think about let's say you're at home, you're watching
a movie and it like glitches or it kind of
times out or whatever. It's like, dang it, it's got
a load kind of ruins. The ruins the flow a
little bit, and so folks think they're like, oh, you
(24:04):
know what we need to do. We need to pay
more for our internet. We should upgrade it to one
of those premium speed plans, when in reality, what I
think a lot of folks need to do, and I'm
saying this from personal experience, what they need to do
is get take their Wi Fi router out of the
cabinet and pull it because like it's that's a wood
positioning matters. Yeah, that's a wooden coffin, and it's really
hard for the Wi Fi signal to get from the
(24:25):
wireless router to your device, to your phone to your TV.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
In a coffin in the backyard. And now I'm like,
where are my speed?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah I don't have internet anymore. What I would do it,
but I'm still paying for it, so truly, and I
get why people don't want to do that because typically
they're not pretty, you know, like they're typically unsightly, like
there's it can be a jumble of cords and so
you're thinking, let me just put that in the cabin
let me stick that in the bottom of the closet.
But that impacts your speeds. You want to have a
clear line of sight. That is really important. I think folks, uh,
(24:53):
they're doing it wrong. Yeah right, Like they think just
by paying more that that's going to increase their speeds
when in reality it's just okay, your methodology, your technique,
make sure you're paying that some attention as well.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, and we're talking, at least with the cost of
internet about paying more every single month, Well, what about
maybe getting a mesh router system. Those things have gone
down in price, and yeah, maybe you're extending the internet
signal to make it faster in other parts of the house.
It's like, you don't need faster speeds, you just need
it better coverage. Yeah, better coverage, and that's a one
time cost is instead of upgrading and paying more money
(25:26):
every single month and not getting essentially what you need either.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
We're totally like do with the ced net beat right now.
But like and so when some folks might hear j
you'll say, like the mesh router system and just like,
oh man, that sounds that sounds confusing. That's like plug
and play though, But it also doesn't even have to
be that complicated. You can literally and this is what
we've done, but you can buy another wireless router that's
exactly like the current one. You have, plug the Internet
cable into the back of that thing, and plug that
(25:49):
into the other router that's somewhere that's positioned somewhere else
in your house. So if you do have a long,
skinny house, rather than having a router right in the middle,
maybe that means kind of placing them at both ends
of your house. And you can just I mean, I
don't I don't bat an eyelash it doing this, but
I just drilled the hole into my floor, through the hardwoods,
down into the cross space. You run that cable to
the other part of the house, have it pop up,
plug it in, name it the exact same name, with
(26:11):
the same password and everything, and your devices will hop
from one to the other seamlessly.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, all right, look at that little little tech tip.
Didn't know you were getting that in depth tech analysis here.
The other thing, Matt, people spend too much more, and
this is something we talked about regularly on the show,
is streaming services, right, And Americans are spending an average
of one thousand dollars a year for streaming now, bringing
the monthly cost at least kind of closer to what
cable used to cost us. And we're still watching ads
(26:38):
like we had to in the cable days. Two at
least most people are because they're not paying the premium
for which is now a lot more to get ads
removed from your streaming And.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Like we saw last Sunday, the ads, they're just not
as good as they used to be. No commercials, just
not They're not as good, not at all.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Although I only watched the first half, I didn't watch
the second half of the game. So but you actually
you don't watch watch any of it? But did you
go watch any of the ads?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
And yeah, oh I searched it. See. I was like,
I'm an advertising guy, man, that's that's my background way
back in the day. And I still love seeing what,
you know, what clever things they came up with. Yeah,
there's not much cleverness out there. It's a little do,
a little dill this year. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Well, I think it's just a good reminder to go
take a look see what services are currently subscribed to
make the goal of having I think fewer simultaneous services.
You know, watch Severance or Silo or whatever your favorite
Apple TV show is for a month, which I haven't.
I still you haven't watched seven season two?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Noo? Yeah, season two. I can't wait. But I just
haven't been able to carve the time out. Yes, which
means I haven't resubscribed to Apple Plus yet because I
haven't committed to being in it. Baby, yeah, ok, I
want to.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Once you do, though, watch it in a month and
then get rid of it, like you don't want to
stay subscribed to it exactly. And then you know, careful
consumers I think, who pay attention, who cancel services regularly,
they're the ones who are winning in the new environment.
But there's far too many people who just aren't taking
that tact. And I think it's also Matt. They're a
good reminder there are pretty good free services out there now,
like to B, freeb and Filo. It's amazing to see
(27:58):
how much steam some of those are gaining, how much
people are gravitating over there. Hey, if you're gonna watch
ads anyway, why not not pay a dime?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Why not? Yeah? Okay. So we talked about the need
for higher taxes as well as reduced government spending on
Wednesday with economist Noah Smith, and man, there's no way
around the both and approach. And get this, it turns
out that most Americans are willing to be taxed more
in order to keep their favorite government benefits like Social Security.
Isn't that crazy? Eighty five percent of folks surveyed would
(28:27):
like to see social Security benefits enhanced. I feel like
there's a CSI joke in the enhanced, but they wouldn't
mind a bigger tax bill for that perk. There is
only something like fifteen percent of folks who said that
they'd be willing to take a reduced benefit in order
to prevent tax increases. And found that really fascinating. There's
(28:47):
not much political will to even touch taxes or Social
Security payouts, and in fact, the current administration they're talking
about stopping taxing social Security benefits overall. Yeah, but given
the state of Social Security, man like, we've got to
make some real changes if we want it to stick
around for future generations. It seems like some degree, it
seems like some degree of austerity is going to be necessary.
(29:10):
But then I was after talking with Noah, I was
thinking about it, and I wonder if that's not true anymore,
not in the sense of like the modern monetary theory
or anything like that. But so states obviously have to
reconcile their budgets, but the federal government doesn't, and so
so much of it comes down to what the alternatives are.
And as long as the US system and our economy
as a whole continues to thrive, why would you change
(29:31):
something even if we are running a deficit, because so
much of it is in relation to what other countries
are doing. And guess what other countries run deficits as
well Asian countries, European countries, They're all running deficits, and
so it's kind of relative, which is crazy to say,
because you know, what would your mom say if, like,
if everybody else is running jumping off the bridge aal
would you well in this case, like there is a
limited number of people who are jumping off the bridge,
(29:52):
And truly, if everyone is jumping off the bridge and
things are and money continues to be invested in, say
in the in the US, there is there's no viable
alternative when I'm thinking about investing specifically here when it
comes to investing in markets that are also like blowing
up and doing really well. So I don't know, just
an idea. It's almost like no one's willing to say, oh,
(30:14):
we don't need to eliminate the deficit. But that's how
they're acting, Like that's how administrations over the past several
I mean years and decades have acted that this is
something that doesn't in fact need to be addressed, And
maybe it doesn't because other countries are are doing something
highly similar.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, but what Noah was saying is essentially, the higher
the deficit and the debt grow, and the more of
the government budget that has to go to pay interest
like it will inhibit dynamism at some point. So I
do think this is.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
One of the best relation to what other countries and
other countries are also are also doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Don't we want to be way more by dynamic than
actually I would think so.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But as long as we are, as long as we
have less of our overall budget going towards interest payments
than other countries, then maybe we can kind of have
our cake and be able to eat it too. Maybe
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Maybe Okay, But speaking of like paying more taxes on purpose,
which is what a lot of those people in that
Social Security survey we're signing up for, the Wall Street
Journal had an article on that topic too this week,
and it makes you think, why would we want to
pay more taxes on purpose? Well, there are some reasons
that you might want to purposely pay more in tax
and what she highlighted in this article is that more
(31:24):
Americans could benefit from what she calls strategically accelerating your income. Basically,
if you're can afford to pay more taxes today, well
it might lead to overall tax reduction. And this is
something we've talked about on the show before two. You know,
we're talking about essentially being able and willing to pay
more taxes in twenty twenty five on purpose in order
to reduce your future tax burden. And I think it's
(31:46):
a smart suggestion. It's more of a holistic tax planning
approach totally than just trying to, hey, how low can
I cram my current year tax bill? Just it's a
very myopic approach saying like, how can I limit taxes
in this world one given year instead of thinking about
well how much tax am I going to pay over
the course of my life.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Which is like it makes sense though, because I think
there's a lot of folks who might be thinking, uh, well,
especially maybe folks who are going to a tax professional
and they're paying money, and so the tax professional kind
of steers them in that direction too, because they're trying
to justify what it is that they're charging. And if
they're the one saying well, actually you should probably pay
I know you just paid me, but you also need
to pay more in taxes. Yeah, Like it feels like
a double way of me.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
As Also, the tax pro win is to say I
got you the biggest refund yes, and you're like you brock,
I'm going to keep coming back to you, yes, because
that feels the best in the short term exactly, but
it could lead to the most you know, long term
financial pain.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, So more retirees are starting to find themselves in
higher than his anticipated tax brackets thanks to rm ds
required minimum distributions. So let's learn maybe from some of
the issues they're facing. Guess why we typically talk about
having more wroth accounts and balancing out your tax exposure
classic example, as you're contributing two those retirement accounts, because
(33:01):
you don't want to end up in that position where
it's like, man, I mean, it's not the worst thing
in the world to have a massive traditional form one K,
but when you think about it from a tax perspective,
there are things you could have done along the way
to mitigate future taxation by bringing a little more of
the pain into the present.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, and just facing the reality. It makes me think
about like, if you're hiring somebody to paint your house,
it's just like they're thinking, Okay, I gotta get a
competitive price so that they hire me. And then once
we're doing it, I just need to make this house
look good, like it just needs to be painted, it
needs to be shiny or whatever. It needs to be fresh.
And if they come across some rot, you know, if
they're only thinking about the here and now, it's like, oh,
(33:39):
is ever just gonna slap some pain on that thing? Yeah,
as opposed to being the bearer of bad news. And
I think oftentimes that's what it feels like when you
say to somebody that, hey, yeah, it's probably gonna behoove
you to pay a little more in tax right now.
Like you feel like the bear of bad news.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But the painter is like, hey, we're going to replace
a few boards because ultimately it's gonna save you money
in the long run.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah. But if you can have a conversation about that
to point to the bigger, overall picture, well, of course
that's what we want to do. You don't just want
to slap some pain on it and not have to
think about it now because it's going to turn into
a bigger headache down the road. So's right, that's what
we're trying to get y'all to do with those roth IRA's.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
So I think for and if you are hiring someone
to do your taxes, those are good questions to ask, like, Hey,
I don't I'm not concerned with only lowering my taxes
right now this given year. How can I think about
smart tax planning moving forward? And that's like thinking about
conversations we've had on the show with Sean Mulaney. Those
are really important conversations to have because again, the stakes
(34:35):
are high when we're talking about taxation, and you might
be able to save a couple grand this year, but
what if you could save a heck of a lot
more than that over the course of the next ten
or fifteen years because you paid a little bit more now.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Heck yeah, actually, I just looked it up. That's episode
seven fifty eight that we last talked about that with
Sean mulaney, So look that one up. Yeah. But otherwise, man,
that's going to be it for this Friday. Flight Listeners
can finder show notes up on the website at how
to money dot com. We hope everyone has fantastic weekend.
Hope your Valentine's Day plans turned out well. Forever up there,
and you'll love her.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Some beef turkey. That's that's my suggestion.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
If only Emily knew that that was the way to
your heart, she would have beat you to the punch.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
All Right, that's gonna do it, Matt. Until next time,
best friends out, Best Friends Out.
Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
today we're talking about purging pennies, financial fights, and phantom wealth.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I can't hear phantom Joel, and not think of Phantom Planet.
Did you ever listen to a pandom planet back? And
then what did they do the theme song for the
O C California? Oh yeah, or even Phantom Limb. I
never really watched that show, Phantom Limb. That was a good,
good Chin's song. Oh okay, yeah, you didn't watch the
OC back. You were like a touch younger than me,
and so when I was in college, like we would
have OC watching parties. Oh yeah, because there's only like
(00:49):
two sets of friends who paid for cable?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Was it wasn't it basically like a modernized version of
Beverly Hills nine or two went?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Now? Okay, yeah, I've never really gotten nostalgia as I
think back. But now this is our Friday flight, a
quick sampling of the different stories we've come across, and
we're specifically going to address how they are going to
impact your dollars. But Joel, so you want to try
to get everybody on like this beef jerkey train. Now
that you're as you might try to brainwash everyone into
(01:15):
thinking that meat it's the only category of food that
you actually need in your life.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I'm able to get behind that, although I do think
I would get bored if like meat was my own
league food group. But I think it belongs with the
most meals Matt.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, five meals all meat, and then on the six
meal you throw a little bit of brocoli in there, right,
exactly normally all year old.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Maybe not quite that extreme, but a couple of my
buddies have started making their own beef turkey. It's specifically
South African variety called Biltong, and I had it samples
at their house and I was like, Okay, that's pretty delicious.
Let me give this a go, and I will link
to the YouTube video that I used and that they
used to figure out how to do this.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
The guy explains that he walks to it really well,
send me the link, because I've had your Biltong and
it's amazing. It's good, and you've been withholding the deats
from me.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Okay, So the video, like he like Crystal Clear, walks
you through it super simple, incredibly inexpensive. You don't really
need any special equipment, like literally the coolest parts about.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It, Yeah, the fact that, yeah, you're explaining how yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's not like you need a smoker, right, which is
like hydrator or anything like that. You can you can
like legit, just cure it and then hang it up
in my pantry, is what was My wife was like,
what are you doing? Looks a little wild, It looks
a little sketch, doesn't look safe, but the final product
is pretty darn tasty. So and when you think about
how much something like beef turkey costs, even at a
place like Costco, it's crazy expense, so expensive.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So this is like.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Denser, better, you know everything, It's going into higher quality stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I could not believe. So Kate I had a Christmas
stocking stuffer, uh huh, and she got me a couple
of packs of like some of this fancy oh I
wish I could remember the name of it, but it's
like this fancy beef jerky that she picked up at
Whole Foods. So I thought, you could say BUCkies not
a little bit nicer than that. But she forgot to
scratch off the price tag and I went to you know,
g I was like, oh, thank you know that cracked
(02:59):
and I was like, oh my gosh, it was so
I could not believe how much does the bag it was?
It came down to something like ten dollars an ounce, Wow,
which is crazy. Yeah, and uh, it's not apples to
apples though when you're comparing it, like, obviously it's going
to be more affordable when you do it at home.
But like when you think about price per ounce of
meat or price per pound of a traditional hunk of meat,
(03:20):
like what did you just say? Oh, you have to
dry this stuff out, so you are losing weights as
you go through the aging process. How many days did
you ge it? By the way, about five days? Awesome?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And so in the week get cut in half. So
let's say ask you twenty five bucks for two and
a half pounds of beef.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So really you're looking at pounding a quarter.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, well no, that's after after those five pounds of.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
You already calculated it down. It is like a concentrated
amount of food, which is part of what's attractive about it.
You got some of those concentrated flavors. But I like
what you said too, I've got a snack out there
on the hiking trails, Yes, exactly, Well, because typically I
would rather. I'm like, all right, would rather have a
juicy steak, some try tip or some jerky, some built
on your case, and I'm probably gonna typically go with
(04:02):
like the juicy, but like, like, I mean, if you're
traveling though, if you're on the road, if you're hiking,
that's a great opportunity to bring along your little stash.
Doesn't weigh much of some of this high quality meat,
and so the quality of it. You don't have preservatives,
which typically that's what you're gonna find in some of
the stuff that you buy on the shelves in order
for it to remain shelf stable. And it's not like
(04:22):
you're keeping this around for months and months now you
don't need it, there's no preserve. The lasts for like
three weeks, four weeks in the fridge, so and then
it only gets better, right, No, like a dry dry
age rabbi where they have to like cut mold off.
That seems weird. Hopefully we're not going to get to
this point. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
But it's fun to have a new hobby, and it's
fun to have a hobby that tastes.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Good, that's delicious that also ends up saving you a
ton of money. If you are a big fan of
the beef turkey or what makes it built on versus
regular jerky bats. Good question. I do think beef tricky.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Maybe what sets out apart is that you maybe are
are dehydrating it in some way.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So it's dryer. Because what I try some years and
it was more like cured meat, like.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Somewhere in between, kind of like a salami and a beach.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's like something you get on a shark utery board. Yeah,
it still has some moisture. Yeah, Yeah, it was totally legit.
I was really impressed, especially given that it was your first.
But something that the two of us have talked about
for years now is how worthless pennies are. Pennies mattered
a whole lot more like a long time ago, right
like even decades ago, but digital payments have essentially killed
the need for the penny to exist. But then on
(05:26):
top of that inflation as well. They're expensive to make,
costing multiple times to mint that's the proper word for
creating pennies than what they're actually worth when they're put
into circulation. They cost something like three point seven cents
per penny to create.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And I know my Grandma remembers the time when pennies mattered,
that we're just not living in that time.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
No man. And so one of the orders within the
flurry of Trump administration executive orders is to order the
Treasury Secretary to stop making new pennies. And this is
something that's been proposed by Republicans in the past, by
Democrats as well. We are not sad to see the
penny go the way of the Dodo bird. I think
this should be slam dunk easy thing for everyone to
(06:07):
get behind. Who's clinging to the penny? Who are you?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Who are these people who say, no, please, please keep
the penny around. Nobody picks up pennies anymore. They becomes
hoby value. I don't even pick up pennies anymore. And like,
I'm the kind of I'm the guy that likes to
find money on the ground. Oh yeah, but the things
you have brought home that you picked up off the
curb are are weird and various.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
But you don't pick up pennies, you know what. We
live out in the burbs, though. If your folks put
stuff out on the curb, they just throw it away. Yeah.
I think that's something I noticed about living in the city,
folks are I don't know, are folks more frugal and.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
More conscientious about it getting a second life. But out
here folks are like, I just sent it to the landfill.
I guess there is nicer stuff with the good will maybe,
or oh that's it. I think the good wills are nicer.
That's what they're doing with it, they're donating it. Yeah,
all right, sorry to cast a spurs burd folks, but okay,
so matter if we get rid of the penny, do
we also need to get rid of the nickel. It
kind of opens up that can of works. Where do
(06:54):
you stop the culling of the coins, which actually would
have been another.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Good days forget.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Like, once we start talking, I realized, well, so CNN
had an article about nickels too, and how much of
a problem they might be. So CNN's like, hey, now
we need to go hogwhile on this and that basically
the cost to make a nickel is and I was
shocked to see this. I didn't realize this because the
penny thing has been well documented. But apparently it cost
fourteen cents to make a nickel, which is.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
A little less than three times whereas the penny is
a little more than three times.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah so, but still like the gap is insane between
that's a lot of money to make a dollar amount
or send them out. Yeah, dimes and quarters at least
are worth more than they cost to manufacture. But not
only are these coins expensive relative relative to their worth,
but they slow down transactions. I and maybe I shouldn't
get annoyed, but when people pay with cash and coins
in front of me, now I'm at it does it?
(07:43):
Just it irks me a little? And I want to
be like yea with the times.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But that's it's a part. I need busy on the go.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I got places to be I need to get over
that people to see, beers to drink, right exactly. The
National Association of Commedian Storts agrees with me, I think,
because they, for instance, would like to see small coins
down away with because it does add more time at
the cash register. And as one economists put it, Matt,
they said, when people start leaving a monetary unit at
the cash register for the next customer, essentially they're citing
(08:10):
it's insignificance. The unit is too small to be useful.
I think pennies have been too small to be useful
for a while now, and I'm not sad to see
them go zero tier shed over here.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well okay, so one practical use that we have for
pennies and nichols is do y'all ever play thirty one
with the kids? The card game. It's a good game,
straightforward enough for them to understand. You know. It's like
where the aces. Aces are worth eleven points, face cards
are ten on you try to get thirty one and
if you do games over, everyone loses. Okay, the game.
The goal of the game is to not lose, essentially,
and you can call it whenever you want. The goal
(08:40):
of most games, well, no, some games of the goal
is to win. But the goal in this game is
to be good enough to not lose. And we used
to use pennies and nickels and dimes and stuff just
as a way to keep score kind of. But lately
what we told them is like, hey, you need to
come to the table with your own money, because it
provides they got more skin in the game and it
makes fun a little more interesting. So I would be
(09:02):
sad from that standpoint. I would maybe hoard some pities
and nagles just to be able to have on hand
to facilitate game playing.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Well, I think we should say this doesn't mean the
pennies are going away. It just because you won't print
and create new pennies.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
But eventually, what that's going to mean is that over time,
they're gonna get they're gonna degrade, and they're gonna be
They're all gonna be in the cacation and in people's jars,
in their closet, in the game closet. Yeah, exactly. Okay,
since it's Valentine's Day, let's talk about fighting with your partner, buddy.
Hopefully you can not like I'm trying to avoid that,
so your business partner, but yeah, we're talking about romantic
partners here. Hopefully you can avoid that. But a new
(09:36):
survey finds that a third of couples are uncomfortable talking
about money at all in the relationships. And on average,
couples argue about money something like fifty eight times a year,
which is a lot if that's more than once a week.
So no wonder their reticence approach the subject of money
of personal finances, and on one hand arguing it's not
(09:58):
the worst thing in the world, right, I think it
depends on what the argument looks like. I think healthy
arguing can be productive. It shows that you care about something,
and you know what's worse to argue about something in
a healthy or productive way or just to just not
care at all, to where you're not even bringing it up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Can I share a little anecdote. I remember my pa,
my grandpa, telling me that he and my grandma never
ever fought, and so I was like, oh, that sounds awesome.
I don't really like fighting, so I'm hoping for that
same thing in my relationship. I remember telling Emily that
early on, and she laughed at me and said that
was really dumb and sorry, but we're probably gonna have arguments,
and it's true we have. But I agree with you,
(10:36):
Matt that I think just studying expectations of relationship, I
appreciate that. I think arguments have been productive for the
most part for us, although not always, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
For the most part. It shows you care, and I
think at least one of the ways to help maybe
change the dynamic within a relationship is just to agree
on some shared dreams, to cast a vision of what
you want your future to look like. I think it's
going to be easier to cut back in other areas
in life in other ways, and when you're shooting for
the same goals, when you can recognize that you're on
the same team trying to achieve the same things. Yeah,
(11:06):
just something to keep the money. I guess.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I just do hate that people argue about money so much.
Oh yeah, And I think a lot of those arguments
are not terribly productive. And part of that is because
there hasn't been enough of that sort of team mindset,
and there's probably a separation of finances, but in the couple, right,
so it's like, hey, this is my money I'm bringing in,
that's your money. And that's happening more and more as
(11:29):
couples get married or come together at a later date,
they've already kind of amassed a certain amount of money,
maybe bought a home, maybe made some investments, and it's like, well,
this is mine, that's yours, And then it's really hard,
I think, to kind of pull in the same direction.
And the truth is, another way to fight less in
your marriage or in your partnership is to combine finances more.
And this isn't rocket science, but the more you overlap
(11:51):
finances when you're married, though, the more transparent you make
your money, and the easier it is to work together.
The New York Times just wrote an article about this.
They found that or couples are segregating their finances, which
is something that we have definitely seen, especially in the
questions we get from our listeners, and that makes it
harder to navigate. But there is research out there saying
that it's not going to be the best way to
(12:13):
move forward. The Journal of Consumer Research found that couples
who combine finances they're happier, they're more committed to one another,
And to me, this shows that there's mutual trust built
up when you're pulling in the same direction and when
you have that added transparency. So I think seeing those
stats about fighting about money, well, if you want to
not be a statistic, if you want to fight less
(12:34):
about money, or you at least do want those more
productive fights instead of the ones where you're just at
each other's throats, Combining those accounts, dreaming big together, that
is at least part of the solution I think for
most people.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I love it man. Yeah, so we don't often plug
other people's podcasts, but we're both fans of honestly, that's
Barry weiss Her and her team over at the Free Press.
But she just had an episode where she had this
an expert on talking about relationship little advice, and it
was fascinating that her prescription one of her recommendations when
it came to love and sex as well, but it
(13:07):
was much more traditionally conservative in nature, and she even
admitted that, hey, I grew up very progressive, very you know,
left leaning, very liberal, and based on the research and
what she found, she essentially like recreated from the ground
up this way of approaching relationships that is traditionally very conservative,
and it was all based not on like religion or
(13:30):
anything like that, but just based on the evidence, based
on stats and the success of relationships and the benefit
to society and how benefit women and children as well.
It's super fascinating. If you haven't listened to that one,
I'd recommend checking out. Okay, let's talk about paying for college.
We saw an article where Bloomberg was highlighting the fact
that many parents are investing within bitcoin for their kids
(13:54):
as opposed to opting for you know, the good old
traditional investments in a five nine plan. And the reason
is that they think that returns on traditional stocks aren't
going to be good enough to fund the high cost
of college, so they're taking on a bit more risk here.
And it's true that the inflation on college tuition has
been crazy over the past few decades, as well as
(14:15):
the fact that your term stock market return predictions aren't
necessarily all that rosy. And in addition to that, only
bitcoin it has been brilliant since its inception if you
look all the way back.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, so how many better investments over the past, like
what twelve fourteen years?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So you take all three of these things, kind of
stir them together in a pot, and you might come
to a conclusion that, like, hey, bitcoin is the way
to go, But you can't buy bitcoin inside of a
five to twenty nine plan, so you're missing out on
the tax benefits of that particular account. If your state
offers a five twenty nine plan, a good one with good,
good investment options and low fees. But the five twenty
(14:51):
nine is better than it's ever been now thanks to
new rules about it being able to be converted into
a wrath down the road. And so we are a
bit more bullish on nine plans then we used to be.
So just keep that in mind. It might be this
might be a good instance to keep those investments a
little bit more separated. All four. If you are interested
in bitcoin, sure have a little bit of exposure for
(15:12):
yourself and even your kids. I think that's totally fine
as well, but as always, just keep that limited to
five percent of your overall portfolio and maybe don't co
mingle those investments with the money and the funds that
you're looking to pay for college with.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, I guess I just get nervous about people saying, no,
this is the ticket to pay for my kids college.
I'm seeing these headlines about bitcoin to a million. One
bitcoin is gonna be worth a million dollars in the
next couple of years, and that sounds great. And if
that comes to pass and you have some exposure to bitcoin,
(15:45):
that's fantastic for you, right, But I would just be
nervous about putting all my eggs in that one basket.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Oh yeah, and we would.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
That's just part of diversification, right, is to not have
all those eggs.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
In one basket.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And if you're overly allocated to bitcoin and you're missing
out on the tax breaks and just the greater diversification
when you're investing for your kids future, I can just
see that coming back to bite you in the butt.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, well, we have no money leftover for college. Man.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There's another article about, speaking of college, how personal finance
courses are becoming more normal, not just in high schools
across the country, which we've seen a lot of growth
in there, but in colleges, and how schools like UNLV,
cal Berkeley, and Stanford have them and they're working to
bring more to campuses across the country. Actually, the Stafford
(16:30):
course is taught by friend of the show, Adam Nash,
who's been on the guy who runs Data, the.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Donor advised fund platform that were fans of.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
That's right, and it's interesting, like not everyone has to
take these courses, unlike many of these high schools where
it's mandatory, but they seem kind of cool and Adam
Nash is the way he explained his course, and I've
looked through kind of the documents, like his syllabus, and
I love kind of his approach to talking about personal finance.
And the truth is a country, we just need more
personal finance help altogether. Even brilliant students out a school
(17:00):
like Stanford, they don't come to college knowing personal finance
inside and out. And most of them just don't have
much knowledge on that front. And personal finance is getting
more complex as the financial system gains more complexity, and
everyone knows Matt, I think the real solutions is listening
to how the money is free nine to nine. That's right,
it's free. And uh, we're funny and great and just
(17:23):
a pleasure to be.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
With, funny ish sometimes we're cringe. But my problem it
does come down to the cost. And I think that's
my biggest personal hang up with especially gosh, personal paying
for personal finances, finance classes and those credit hours cost. Yes,
I mean, really, we're gonna I'm going to fork out money.
I wanna pay money to like an Ivy League college
in order to teach my kids how to save money.
(17:46):
I have a hard time not thinking that that's a
total waste of my money.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I would tell today, not because I hate personal finance,
because obviously I love it, but I would be like, no,
let's how about you read this book. Let's come with
our own curriculum. Here's a couple podcasts you can listen to.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That everyone has that ex experience, has that upbringing, or
parents who have that upbringing as well to where they're
even talking about it as a couple. They're within the family. Yeah,
but it's not rocket science. The basic formulas to spend
less than you make, invest the rest and then listen
to hown of money for all the rest of the details.
I mean, And there are a lot of details, and
we talk about a lot of the details on this show.
But yeah, it's it's The basics are certainly not rocket science.
(18:21):
But you should stick around and listen to more amount
of money because it's the right prescription for what ails
you on the personal finance front. Yeah, you get beef
curing tips from Joel.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So many good things you didn't expect on today's episode.
All right, there's more to get to, Matt, including are
we overpaying for internet and are there ways to combat that.
We'll get to that and more right after this.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
All right, buddy, we are back from the break. It
is now time for the ludicrous headline of the week,
which this week is from Fast Company. Headline reads, Millennials
are plagued by fantom wealth. Why the generation doesn't feel
rich despite their net worth quadrupling? Did you know that
millennials net worth is quadruple Jrol has yours quadrupled? Mat yes,
(19:07):
it has out of tupled. I will say millennials as
a cohort have outlasted the tremors of the Great Recession, right,
like that was the big It's like, oh man, you've
got this generation going into adulthood, leaving college. They got
their degrees, Now they can't get jobs.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
All those headlines early on were about how millennials were
never going to recover, and they have things.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
We're looking pretty dour. We've seen our network skyrocket especially,
I would say over the past six years, but the
millennial crowd has hit their stride. From a work and
from an income perspective, networks have increased. But a lot
of folks around our age they don't actually feel wealthy,
and that's typically because their money is tied up in
(19:46):
liquid assets like their home. All right, Like you've seen
your home equity increase, but it's tough. It's tough to
pull that money out of that tangible or like you're
four to one k. A lot of listeners, especially millennial listeners,
have had hopefully if it was an automatic it's something
that they did themselves. But a lot of employers now
are auto enrolling their new employees.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It's like they got the message. They stuck more than
their four one k and they're happy about seeing their
net worth balloon. But they also can't touch.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That money either. But that's also kind of a part
of it, right, Like part of building wealth is not
touching the majority of it. For quiet a while, makes
me think of Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's late partner, where
he said, like the number one rule of compounding is
to not interrupt it unnecessarily, which is so true. So
the fact is you're doing it right. This is how
(20:31):
you build wealth. This is how you're going to be
able to retire in your later years. But that being said,
if you're investing so much that you feel poor where
you can't even enjoy a craft beer equivalent, I would say,
maybe you're doing it wrong, Like maybe you've cut back
in every single area of your life. It's a part
of why that's something that we always talk about, Joel
craft beer or maybe in your case now it's craft meat.
(20:51):
By the ability to spend in some ways, it seems
kind of silly, but it's something that lights you up.
That's important as well to live life in the here now,
or especially early on when you might be aggressively saving.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Don't forego some of those things that matter right while
you're trying to save up and invest for the future,
because if you do, you are going to have those
negative feelings. And I do think that's ultimately harmful, and
it causes a lot of people to say, why am
I investing for this thing forty years down the road?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Why don't I just yobo?
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And yeah, that's why you have to have balance in
your approach. And Matt, if you want to boost your
savings straight, there's new evidence that you should be more optimistic.
A new study from the American Psychological Association finds that
being optimistic about the future may help people save more money,
and people who described themselves as more optimistic they ended
(21:39):
up saving a higher percentage of their income. And that
applies across the income spectrum, whether you were bringing home
six figures or whether you're bringing home half that and so,
as the study said, optimism appears to exert a slightly
stronger influence on savings behavior than financial literacy and risk tolerance.
Which is kind of crazy to think that, like, just
(22:02):
being more optimistic matters more than learning more about money.
So maybe people can turn this off and just go
like tap into their inner optimism.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Maybe that's gonna be more beneficial. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
But your mindset is I think more powerful than most
people give it credit for. And I don't think this
is necessarily like manifesting something into existence, which maybe some
gurus would encourage you to do. I think it's more
believing that good things are coming down the pike that
gets you excited for the future. And the truth, I mean,
optimists tend to live longer as well. There's evidence about that.
(22:34):
So it's a good idea for us all to work
on seeing the good because we will save more harm money,
be the more.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Thoughtful about our future, and we'll have a longer future.
That's right. Man. Let's talk about utilities Internet specifically, because
seeing that they recently published an article about overpaying for
their Internet, and I think with more folks working from home,
I think there's even more of an attraction to maybe
pay premium rates for fast inner that. But it turns
(23:00):
out too many folks are paying for speeds that they
don't really actually use, or speeds that they don't actually need,
and so opting to go from like a more premium
speed of like three hundred megabits per second down to
one hundred megabits per second, that might be a brilliant
financial move. So much of this depends on what you're
using your internet connection for, how often you're using it.
(23:21):
So like you're let's say you do like you're uploading
massive files, Okay, maybe you do need to pay pay
attention up speed. That's probably critical for you to be
able to do your job efficiently. If you've got multiple
folks or family members whatever, streaming on different devices at
the same time, maybe you want to pay more as well.
But you know, I think similar to buying the unlimited
(23:43):
data cell phone plan, when you're on Wi Fi most
of the time at home, I think you might be
paying too much. This might be an instance where it's
just money going to waste. Man. And this also makes
me think about let's say you're at home, you're watching
a movie and it like glitches or it kind of
times out or whatever. It's like, dang it, it's got
a load kind of ruins. The ruins the flow a
little bit, and so folks think they're like, oh, you
(24:04):
know what we need to do. We need to pay
more for our internet. We should upgrade it to one
of those premium speed plans, when in reality, what I
think a lot of folks need to do, and I'm
saying this from personal experience, what they need to do
is get take their Wi Fi router out of the
cabinet and pull it because like it's that's a wood
positioning matters. Yeah, that's a wooden coffin, and it's really
hard for the Wi Fi signal to get from the
(24:25):
wireless router to your device, to your phone to your TV.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
In a coffin in the backyard. And now I'm like,
where are my speed?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah I don't have internet anymore. What I would do it,
but I'm still paying for it, so truly, and I
get why people don't want to do that because typically
they're not pretty, you know, like they're typically unsightly, like
there's it can be a jumble of cords and so
you're thinking, let me just put that in the cabin
let me stick that in the bottom of the closet.
But that impacts your speeds. You want to have a
clear line of sight. That is really important. I think folks, uh,
(24:53):
they're doing it wrong. Yeah right, Like they think just
by paying more that that's going to increase their speeds
when in reality it's just okay, your methodology, your technique,
make sure you're paying that some attention as well.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, and we're talking, at least with the cost of
internet about paying more every single month, Well, what about
maybe getting a mesh router system. Those things have gone
down in price, and yeah, maybe you're extending the internet
signal to make it faster in other parts of the house.
It's like, you don't need faster speeds, you just need
it better coverage. Yeah, better coverage, and that's a one
time cost is instead of upgrading and paying more money
(25:26):
every single month and not getting essentially what you need either.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
We're totally like do with the ced net beat right now.
But like and so when some folks might hear j
you'll say, like the mesh router system and just like,
oh man, that sounds that sounds confusing. That's like plug
and play though, But it also doesn't even have to
be that complicated. You can literally and this is what
we've done, but you can buy another wireless router that's
exactly like the current one. You have, plug the Internet
cable into the back of that thing, and plug that
(25:49):
into the other router that's somewhere that's positioned somewhere else
in your house. So if you do have a long,
skinny house, rather than having a router right in the middle,
maybe that means kind of placing them at both ends
of your house. And you can just I mean, I
don't I don't bat an eyelash it doing this, but
I just drilled the hole into my floor, through the hardwoods,
down into the cross space. You run that cable to
the other part of the house, have it pop up,
plug it in, name it the exact same name, with
(26:11):
the same password and everything, and your devices will hop
from one to the other seamlessly.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, all right, look at that little little tech tip.
Didn't know you were getting that in depth tech analysis here.
The other thing, Matt, people spend too much more, and
this is something we talked about regularly on the show,
is streaming services, right, And Americans are spending an average
of one thousand dollars a year for streaming now, bringing
the monthly cost at least kind of closer to what
cable used to cost us. And we're still watching ads
(26:38):
like we had to in the cable days. Two at
least most people are because they're not paying the premium
for which is now a lot more to get ads
removed from your streaming And.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Like we saw last Sunday, the ads, they're just not
as good as they used to be. No commercials, just
not They're not as good, not at all.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Although I only watched the first half, I didn't watch
the second half of the game. So but you actually
you don't watch watch any of it? But did you
go watch any of the ads?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
And yeah, oh I searched it. See. I was like,
I'm an advertising guy, man, that's that's my background way
back in the day. And I still love seeing what,
you know, what clever things they came up with. Yeah,
there's not much cleverness out there. It's a little do,
a little dill this year. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Well, I think it's just a good reminder to go
take a look see what services are currently subscribed to
make the goal of having I think fewer simultaneous services.
You know, watch Severance or Silo or whatever your favorite
Apple TV show is for a month, which I haven't.
I still you haven't watched seven season two?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Noo? Yeah, season two. I can't wait. But I just
haven't been able to carve the time out. Yes, which
means I haven't resubscribed to Apple Plus yet because I
haven't committed to being in it. Baby, yeah, ok, I
want to.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Once you do, though, watch it in a month and
then get rid of it, like you don't want to
stay subscribed to it exactly. And then you know, careful
consumers I think, who pay attention, who cancel services regularly,
they're the ones who are winning in the new environment.
But there's far too many people who just aren't taking
that tact. And I think it's also Matt. They're a
good reminder there are pretty good free services out there now,
like to B, freeb and Filo. It's amazing to see
(27:58):
how much steam some of those are gaining, how much
people are gravitating over there. Hey, if you're gonna watch
ads anyway, why not not pay a dime?
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Why not? Yeah? Okay. So we talked about the need
for higher taxes as well as reduced government spending on
Wednesday with economist Noah Smith, and man, there's no way
around the both and approach. And get this, it turns
out that most Americans are willing to be taxed more
in order to keep their favorite government benefits like Social Security.
Isn't that crazy? Eighty five percent of folks surveyed would
(28:27):
like to see social Security benefits enhanced. I feel like
there's a CSI joke in the enhanced, but they wouldn't
mind a bigger tax bill for that perk. There is
only something like fifteen percent of folks who said that
they'd be willing to take a reduced benefit in order
to prevent tax increases. And found that really fascinating. There's
(28:47):
not much political will to even touch taxes or Social
Security payouts, and in fact, the current administration they're talking
about stopping taxing social Security benefits overall. Yeah, but given
the state of Social Security, man like, we've got to
make some real changes if we want it to stick
around for future generations. It seems like some degree, it
seems like some degree of austerity is going to be necessary.
(29:10):
But then I was after talking with Noah, I was
thinking about it, and I wonder if that's not true anymore,
not in the sense of like the modern monetary theory
or anything like that. But so states obviously have to
reconcile their budgets, but the federal government doesn't, and so
so much of it comes down to what the alternatives are.
And as long as the US system and our economy
as a whole continues to thrive, why would you change
(29:31):
something even if we are running a deficit, because so
much of it is in relation to what other countries
are doing. And guess what other countries run deficits as
well Asian countries, European countries, They're all running deficits, and
so it's kind of relative, which is crazy to say,
because you know, what would your mom say if, like,
if everybody else is running jumping off the bridge aal
would you well in this case, like there is a
limited number of people who are jumping off the bridge,
(29:52):
And truly, if everyone is jumping off the bridge and
things are and money continues to be invested in, say
in the in the US, there is there's no viable
alternative when I'm thinking about investing specifically here when it
comes to investing in markets that are also like blowing
up and doing really well. So I don't know, just
an idea. It's almost like no one's willing to say, oh,
(30:14):
we don't need to eliminate the deficit. But that's how
they're acting, Like that's how administrations over the past several
I mean years and decades have acted that this is
something that doesn't in fact need to be addressed, And
maybe it doesn't because other countries are are doing something
highly similar.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, but what Noah was saying is essentially, the higher
the deficit and the debt grow, and the more of
the government budget that has to go to pay interest
like it will inhibit dynamism at some point. So I
do think this is.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
One of the best relation to what other countries and
other countries are also are also doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Don't we want to be way more by dynamic than
actually I would think so.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But as long as we are, as long as we
have less of our overall budget going towards interest payments
than other countries, then maybe we can kind of have
our cake and be able to eat it too. Maybe
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Maybe Okay, But speaking of like paying more taxes on purpose,
which is what a lot of those people in that
Social Security survey we're signing up for, the Wall Street
Journal had an article on that topic too this week,
and it makes you think, why would we want to
pay more taxes on purpose? Well, there are some reasons
that you might want to purposely pay more in tax
and what she highlighted in this article is that more
(31:24):
Americans could benefit from what she calls strategically accelerating your income. Basically,
if you're can afford to pay more taxes today, well
it might lead to overall tax reduction. And this is
something we've talked about on the show before two. You know,
we're talking about essentially being able and willing to pay
more taxes in twenty twenty five on purpose in order
to reduce your future tax burden. And I think it's
(31:46):
a smart suggestion. It's more of a holistic tax planning
approach totally than just trying to, hey, how low can
I cram my current year tax bill? Just it's a
very myopic approach saying like, how can I limit taxes
in this world one given year instead of thinking about
well how much tax am I going to pay over
the course of my life.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Which is like it makes sense though, because I think
there's a lot of folks who might be thinking, uh, well,
especially maybe folks who are going to a tax professional
and they're paying money, and so the tax professional kind
of steers them in that direction too, because they're trying
to justify what it is that they're charging. And if
they're the one saying well, actually you should probably pay
I know you just paid me, but you also need
to pay more in taxes. Yeah, Like it feels like
a double way of me.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
As Also, the tax pro win is to say I
got you the biggest refund yes, and you're like you brock,
I'm going to keep coming back to you, yes, because
that feels the best in the short term exactly, but
it could lead to the most you know, long term
financial pain.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, So more retirees are starting to find themselves in
higher than his anticipated tax brackets thanks to rm ds
required minimum distributions. So let's learn maybe from some of
the issues they're facing. Guess why we typically talk about
having more wroth accounts and balancing out your tax exposure
classic example, as you're contributing two those retirement accounts, because
(33:01):
you don't want to end up in that position where
it's like, man, I mean, it's not the worst thing
in the world to have a massive traditional form one K,
but when you think about it from a tax perspective,
there are things you could have done along the way
to mitigate future taxation by bringing a little more of
the pain into the present.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, and just facing the reality. It makes me think
about like, if you're hiring somebody to paint your house,
it's just like they're thinking, Okay, I gotta get a
competitive price so that they hire me. And then once
we're doing it, I just need to make this house
look good, like it just needs to be painted, it
needs to be shiny or whatever. It needs to be fresh.
And if they come across some rot, you know, if
they're only thinking about the here and now, it's like, oh,
(33:39):
is ever just gonna slap some pain on that thing? Yeah,
as opposed to being the bearer of bad news. And
I think oftentimes that's what it feels like when you
say to somebody that, hey, yeah, it's probably gonna behoove
you to pay a little more in tax right now.
Like you feel like the bear of bad news.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
But the painter is like, hey, we're going to replace
a few boards because ultimately it's gonna save you money
in the long run.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah. But if you can have a conversation about that
to point to the bigger, overall picture, well, of course
that's what we want to do. You don't just want
to slap some pain on it and not have to
think about it now because it's going to turn into
a bigger headache down the road. So's right, that's what
we're trying to get y'all to do with those roth IRA's.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
So I think for and if you are hiring someone
to do your taxes, those are good questions to ask, like, Hey,
I don't I'm not concerned with only lowering my taxes
right now this given year. How can I think about
smart tax planning moving forward? And that's like thinking about
conversations we've had on the show with Sean Mulaney. Those
are really important conversations to have because again, the stakes
(34:35):
are high when we're talking about taxation, and you might
be able to save a couple grand this year, but
what if you could save a heck of a lot
more than that over the course of the next ten
or fifteen years because you paid a little bit more now.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Heck yeah, actually, I just looked it up. That's episode
seven fifty eight that we last talked about that with
Sean mulaney, So look that one up. Yeah. But otherwise, man,
that's going to be it for this Friday. Flight Listeners
can finder show notes up on the website at how
to money dot com. We hope everyone has fantastic weekend.
Hope your Valentine's Day plans turned out well. Forever up there,
and you'll love her.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Some beef turkey. That's that's my suggestion.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
If only Emily knew that that was the way to
your heart, she would have beat you to the punch.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
All Right, that's gonna do it, Matt. Until next time,
best friends out, Best Friends Out.
Hosts And Creators
Joel Larsgaard
Matthew Altmix
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