May 4, 2023 • 24 mins
Eva and Maite reflect on the highlights from the season and discuss the changing perceptions of Mexican food in the United States. Plus, award-winning Chef Ray Garcia, formerly of Broken Spanish and BS Taqueria, now of asterid in Downtown Los Angeles - shares his experiences as a Mexican-American breaking ground in the culinary world.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I can't believe it's our last episode. I can't either.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Are it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
My name is Evil Longoria and I am My de
Gomez Racon and Welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast
that explores our past and present through food.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some
of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
So make yourself at home. E When Bri Mitchell, we
talk about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
You and I were like, isn't this we having so
much fun? What a ride?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The best, the best, And at the beginning, it's like
what thirty episodes felt like a million, and now it's like,
that's it thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, Well, because we have so much to talk about,
and there's so many things that we were just saying,
we could have broken up some of the episodes into
two episodes because we could talk on and on and on.
We've had an amazing season of conversation about corn versus flower,
about amazing ingredient and dishes, and native and endemic foods and.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Old Word foods and New World foods.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I mean, it's been so fun. I've learned so much
and we've had so many adventures.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I've learned so much. You are the expert. I'm just
here to banter with you.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I think we're a good team.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Eva.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeh, what was your what's your favorite highlights of season
one of Hungary for history?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh gosh, going to Vera Cruz and seeing the vanilla
when you impregnated that vanilla that I did, that was
really special.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean just seeing that so special.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It was incredible, so special.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I got to say, Vera Cruz is up there.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
When people ask me about searching for Mexico and those episodes,
they're like, what was your favorite? Obviously Wahaka, obviously Mexico City,
and I was like, no, I mean Vera Cruz had
to be just mind blowing because I didn't know what
to expect from that region. But the vanilla episode, our
coffee episode, also from Veda Cruise, it was.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
It was really special.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I hope everybody can visit Vera Cruz and go to
the vanilla fields because the fact that it's like a
dying plant, like it's not going to be around for
much longer. You have to go see how a vanilla
bean is made.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's just yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I also love when we I love when we traveled
to Spain because you know, we did the olive oil
and the wine episodes there. But I loved you know,
Mike and I were just walking down the street and
started talking about colonized diets and like, oh my god,
should we do an episode on that? And God, you know,
how do we reconcile being Mexican and Mexican American but
like having Spanish blood and we're in the mother country
(02:41):
and we're in the colonizer country, but yet we still
we speak Spanish, we're both Catholic, We're about you know,
all the traditions that come with it.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Like we're like, oh, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's so loaded. I mean, it's so loaded. And that
led us to our conversation with Claudia Serrato, which was
so interesting interesting. Yeah, and I think that just having
these conversations and just it takes us all over the world.
I mean, some of them greed. I mean, we've talked about,
like you said, native foods and this and that, and god,
it's just such a melting pot.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It's one thing that I learned that I was really
surprised by, and it might be the silliest thing that
Chilea's are berries.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I know that was mind blowing.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And also what I was blown away by was in
our beer episode that that's where really the notion of
witches came from because of the brewery was done by
women and they had to wear pointy hats in the
market for people to find them. What that's where the
witches hat comes from. Like, that was pretty fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
There's so many, so many things so.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That I love. By now people have realized Hungary for history.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
We talk a lot about a lot of different foods
in history, but really focused on our Mexican experience in
Mexican cuisine. And every time I mentioned to people that,
you know, UNESCO has added Mexican cuisine to their list
of Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity, which means it's like
a cultural treasure. The only other cuisine in its entirety
(04:24):
is French, so it's only French in Mexican cuisine protected
by UNESCO as an Intangible Cultural heritage for its farming methods,
it's cooking processes, an endemic and native utensils.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
It's important.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Like we're like wow, And I think people think of
Mexican food sometimes as not less than but just like
not as fancy as French or Italian and it's like, no, no,
it's the only the second cuisine that's added to UNESCO's
importance of this designation. And it goes beyond the taste buds.
(05:01):
It's centuries of recognition to value the food of Mexico.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, it's incredible. But what I find really interesting. I mean,
there's all of that, and Mexican food is extraordinary on
so many different levels, but it took centuries for Mexicans
themselves to recognize the value of their own food because
of colonization. And you know when we did our that
(05:28):
goes in street food episode, Oh that goes our you know,
lower class street food, and you know all of these
labels that were placed over the over the centuries by
by different people. It took many years for Mexicans, some
not all, but to think, oh, yeah, corn is really
(05:48):
valuable and corn has such a rich, long, deep history,
and I think it's it's still it's changing. I think now,
you know, people are really want to learn more. And
I think because people are so interested in where their
food comes from that these conversations are being hot right now.
(06:10):
And this is one of the reasons why I love
talking to you about this, you know, because it's exciting
to go back, to go back, and to go forward
and you know, sideways and explore it all.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I knew a lot of ingredients that were endemic to
Mexico because you and I were both pretty literate and
stuff like that, but there were some that I was
surprised about that weren't.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I was like, for sure, the lime is endemic to Mexico.
No it's not. It's you know, endemic to Asia.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Versy Lanthra, right, Like what yeah, Yeah. But I also
think Mexican food at the heart. At the heart I
think all food, but specifically Mexican food is tradition. It's
like a series of food traditions, and you can, you know,
visit all of these cookbooks and manuscripts and history and
(06:58):
see just the evolution of the people and that story
that's told through the food, whether immigration, conquest, colonization, you know, enslavement,
you know Vera Cruz with La Waca.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, I forgot about that. That's another highlight. Seeing that
another highlight of Vera Cruz.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And then seeing you know, the indigenous and native culture
hold on with such a grip like we will not
give up. These traditions or these processes. You know, corn
survived that right, Their stories are able to be told
because of the food we eat today, and so you know,
the native experiences all around us.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
These crops, a lot of these crops have survived because
that's their job, has been taking care of these crops
from generation to generation to generation. And only now are
we paying attention.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well that yeah, it's living its oral history. It's living history.
And that's why I think talking about food and documenting
food and process and techniques is so important. You know,
the eating habits and culinary practices of a people or
region or a country is about telling the history.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Just the importance of writing down a recipe, making these dishes,
because things if you don't talk about it, if you
don't cook it, if you don't grow it, the stuff
will disappear.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, it'll be forgotten, totally, totally.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I also love that discussing food brings to light a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Politics, you know, economics.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Social issues, environmental issues, and the intersection of those issues
as they overlap on each other. But the intersection of
culture across time and place. And you know, whether it
was a street vendor episode or the decolonizing episode or
our cookbook episodes. Right, Like, there's a lot of social
(09:05):
issues that we touch upon that I think are worth discussing,
and I think an easy way into.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Those discussions is food.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Don't go anywhere, Hungry for History will be right back.
Have people asked you, like, what's authentic Mexican food or
what constitutes a truly authentic Mexican meal?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I have a problem with that word authentic, right, Like,
what is authentic you know mean? Because on the one hand,
there are so many versions I think of authentic you know, cuisine. Right,
So these these patterns of colonization or central to these
conversations about food and authenticity, and yeah, maybe it's possible
for a country to have multiple authentic cuisines. For the
(10:08):
final episode of Hungry for History, we wanted to interview
someone cooking food authentic to them while also challenging the perceptions.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Of Mexican food in the US.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Here's our interview with Cheffray Garcia, a Native Angelino who
draws culinary inspiration from the city's rich culture in California's
agricultural abundance. Chef so, one of our favorite questions to
ask our guests is what are your favorite childhood food memories.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
One of the biggest childhood memories for me was making
themalas around Christmas time because there was sort of a
whole family affairs, three generations of family working together on
one project, you know, all excited, all hungry, you know,
and this was when I was a kid, So it
just kind of added to that excitement.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Of of Christmas time.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You know, we had we had a tradition we'd start
that themalas and then we would get them cooking, you know,
go to church, come back, eat that themala is open presence.
So that's something that's always been stuck in my head
when it comes to just the idea and the thought
of family and celebration and the connection to food.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So who are your heroes? Is there are there any chefs,
either professionals or home cooks that have inspired you on
your journey.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
I would say, not even culinary related.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
My biggest inspirations and influences have been my parents, not
even from a food standpoint, but just that I say,
my dad kept me working and my mom kept me dreaming.
And I think that that's really what is sort of
pushing me to the level that I am now, is
that that hard work and that dedication and that you know,
no one can tell you, you know, when when to stop,
(11:54):
and we can put limits on what you can do
except for yourself. And that's something that has driven me.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
On the food side though, I think, especially with Mexican
food is Carlos Toliato. He has an amazing restaurant in
Orange County, Taco Maria, and he opened up Taco Maria
around the same time, a little bit before we had
opened up Broken Spanish, and he was sort of a
you know, a soldier along, you know, with me in
(12:20):
this in this battle to bring you know, Alta, California
and the cuisine to the forefront. He's inspired me and
continues to do so and supports me as well as
a Portegavidia from Macienda.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
You know, without him, there would be there would be
no corn, there would be no no mass.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
At our restaurants.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
His dedication to land race corn, organic corn, bringing you know,
these crops back from from near extinction has been a huge,
huge asset for us.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You've been in the restaurant business for many, many years.
Can you tell us a little bit about your journey
and how things have evolved over the years.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
I mean, I have a long journey in this business.
Started in nineteen ninety four. I was a bus boy
at at a local Mexican restaurant, handing out chips and salsa.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
In that, you know, fell in love with the industry,
fell in love with food.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
It actually took me in the path to work more
on the on the service side, you know, as a waiter,
paying my way through through college. After that, fell in
love with with the kitchen, with the you know.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
My curiosity for ingredients, for technique, for execution. It took
me on a path through some very iron restaurants.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
And what I was finding is that I was getting
a certain I guess part of my curiosity filled and
I was learning a new skill.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
But it was still lacking a bit of connection for me.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
As I was making these recipes, I could I could
do them well, I could execute them well, but it
was really just me working off of a sheet of
paper that somebody handed me, and I could taste that
you have enough salt, is it cooked enough or undercook
But there wasn't that next level connection that I had
to other ingredients and other foods. So after about fifteen
(14:19):
years of cooking, mostly still a style of California cuisine,
but more eurocentric. I decided to shift into something that
connected with me personally, and that was Broken Spanish.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
And doing so, you know, it allowed.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
Me to connect to more than just those superficial ideas
of flavors and is this visually pleasing, but really connecting
two memories to happiness, to joy, to family. And I
feel like that allowed me to cook at not only
another level, but to connect with people and bring some
of those moments to them.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So tell us a little bit about Astrid. I've been there.
It's so delicious, amazing, So tell us about this restaurant
and how you evolved from Broken Spanish to Astrid.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Sure, I think I think the overall perception of Mexican
food is evolving, and in a positive way. Is it's
very in vogue, but I think it's still underappreciated and
undervalued when it comes to really understanding the diversity of
Mexican food and cuisine and culture and to really, you know,
(15:29):
assign it that same value that you might other other
other cuisines that are using near identical ingredients but manipulating
them in a in a different way. And you know,
at at Astrid, you know, it is a very Californian cuisine.
There is a very Californian restaurant, I should say, and
specifically Angelino in that it incorporates culinary traditions from all
(15:54):
around the world, but especially you know, Mexico, Latin America,
and some of those flavors that that I just really
enjoy cooking with and you'll see, you know, that appear
in many of the dishes that we do without it
being sort of a quote Mexican restaurant, but some of
those flavors and styles that I've worked on over the years.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
For people who might not be familiar with the term,
how do you define Alta California cuisine? What is it?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (16:31):
I think Alta California is more than just a geographic
you know, designation of you know, the areas of California
and some parts of the the south southwest there. But
it's really a cuisine that's it is rooted in in
you know, it's native Mexican heritage, but takes on inspiration
from from California, you know specifically, you know, the ingredients
(16:56):
and the techniques and for me, you know, it's it
goes through a very very Angelino lens or Angelino filter
and Los Angeles is a is a very you know,
there's a lot of diversity in people in cuisine, so
you are blessed with a lot of this cross pollination
of information in tradition that it works its way into
(17:18):
the flavors and the style of cooking that is out
the California.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Last question, are there any misconceptions about Mexican food or
Mexican American food that you would like to clear up?
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Yeah, well, there's there's a lot of perceptions and misconceptions
about Mexican food. I think the biggest thing is that
people's unwillingness to pay for quality ingredients and quality craftsmanship
and workmanship when it comes to Mexican food, I think
that there's a stigma about it that you know, it
should be it should be cheap, it should be you know,
(17:51):
a top rush of costs.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
You want no more than two or three dollars.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
And that there's you know, a limit to you know,
the creativity and and the you know, the flavor profile.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
And that's not it. And Mexican food is.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
More than dishes that you order by it by number
and a large plate of rice and beans with milf
and cheese over the top of it, so I would
say it out there and explore and appreciate.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Chef Ray, Thank you so much for joining the show.
Thank you so much for joining Hungary for History. We
are so excited to feature you on our last episode.
Thank you so much for taking the time. We've got
more after the break, so don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
What do you think the perception of Mexican food is
here in the US.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I think that it's changing, right, I mean, I think
that there are a number of high end Mexican restaurants
that have opened up in the city or in the
US rather. But I think a lot of people still
think that if Mexican food is expensive, it's not authentic,
because Mexican food should be cheap street food. But this
(19:10):
to downplay this Mexican fine dining just downplays the contributions
and the experiences of Mexicans who call the US home.
I think it sort of minimizes the importance, you know,
and the respect for Mexican food ways and you know,
traditions and innovation and history and flavor. But I think
(19:31):
that it's changing. There are a lot of people, I
think that have introduced sort of fine dining, and people
are becoming much more open about it. But I think
Mexicans are maybe not seen, you know, as accepted as
much as Mexican food.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, Mexican cuisine is. It is one of the most
popular ethnic cuisines in the United States because it's the
most popular or ethnic cuisine in twenty seven states, and
Chinese food is the most popular in twenty two other states.
So Mexico inches out being one of the most popular
(20:13):
ethnic cuisine in the United States.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, I mean it's really interesting. So I'm wondering, like
if claiming the inexpensive street baccal or the hole in
the wall no frills place, calling that authentic, does it
inflict damage on an already marginalized community.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I don't know, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Maybe the sort of no frills interior design comes out
of necessity, and then this necessity becomes authenticity. So I
don't know what does that mean for chefs Mexican or
Mexican American chefs that want to carve new paths, you know,
I think it's a struggle.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
What does it mean also for non Mexican chefs doing
Mexican food, like Rick Bayless, right, he's like an authority
on Mexican food, especially in a conversation today about who
gets to cook and say and where what. Yeah, I
think it's an interesting conversation. I don't know the answer
to it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I don't know the answer to it, but yeah, I
mean he was he has you know, the PBS show
and Susan Fenneger and Mary Milligan when they opened they
Orpen Border Grill and had a Food Network show in
the nineties called two Hot Tamales That would not Fly,
That would not Friday. No, that would not fly today,
Fly today.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
But we also have to celebrate you know, those Mexican
Americans are Mexicans that are carving paths in the food
industry as well, like Zarela Martinez who put Mexican fine
dining on the map in New York in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You know her restaurant Zarella.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
It served everything from tuna withpan and then her son
Adon Sanchez, who I wanted to develop a go around,
you know, followed in her footsteps and he's had multiple
Food Network shows. He has a James Beard Award. I mean,
you know, to celebrate them as well. Or Jorgue Gavida
our first guest.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, his book Massa is just a national bestseller. I mean,
he was voted and the book was voted one of
the best cookbooks of twenty twenty two and it's last year.
Yeah yeah, And it's a book on the history of corn,
and this is a bestseller. There are so many people
your show, you know, just bringing I mean, it's a
love letter to Mexico.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Searching for Mexico really was a dream trip and a
show that I think will finally show the beauty of
this amazing country of Mexico, because when you're talking about foods,
you're talking about people, and the people of Mexico are
really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
So I just feel like, you know, what's the future
for Mexican food in this country and how are people
perceiving this cuisine or how this cuisine is changing, because
it's allowed to change, it's allowed to evolve, it's allowed
to be a fusion, it's allowed to like, I think
all those things are exciting.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
There's so many people that are experimenting and doing such
interesting things, and I agree it's exciting.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Well, let me tell you, we have loved going on
this journey with y'all, and we hope you had as
much fun as we did. I mean, if you could
see our text messages to each other, you guys would
know just how happy and excited we have been to
do this show.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Thank you to all of our listeners. Please share the
podcast with friends and family, and don't forget to like
rate us, leave us messages. We really love hearing from you.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And a special shout out to all the guests who
did participate.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Thank you so much. You helped make this show very special.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
So thank you for really making this a memorable season one.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Thank you so much, and thank you Eva.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Thank you my Dan, I love you, Love you. Hungry
for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership with
Iheart'smichaultura podcast network.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I can't believe it's our last episode. I can't either.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Are it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
My name is Evil Longoria and I am My de
Gomez Racon and Welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast
that explores our past and present through food.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some
of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
So make yourself at home. E When Bri Mitchell, we
talk about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
You and I were like, isn't this we having so
much fun? What a ride?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The best, the best, And at the beginning, it's like
what thirty episodes felt like a million, and now it's like,
that's it thirty.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, Well, because we have so much to talk about,
and there's so many things that we were just saying,
we could have broken up some of the episodes into
two episodes because we could talk on and on and on.
We've had an amazing season of conversation about corn versus flower,
about amazing ingredient and dishes, and native and endemic foods and.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Old Word foods and New World foods.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I mean, it's been so fun. I've learned so much
and we've had so many adventures.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I've learned so much. You are the expert. I'm just
here to banter with you.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I think we're a good team.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Eva.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeh, what was your what's your favorite highlights of season
one of Hungary for history?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh gosh, going to Vera Cruz and seeing the vanilla
when you impregnated that vanilla that I did, that was
really special.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean just seeing that so special.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It was incredible, so special.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I got to say, Vera Cruz is up there.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
When people ask me about searching for Mexico and those episodes,
they're like, what was your favorite? Obviously Wahaka, obviously Mexico City,
and I was like, no, I mean Vera Cruz had
to be just mind blowing because I didn't know what
to expect from that region. But the vanilla episode, our
coffee episode, also from Veda Cruise, it was.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
It was really special.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I hope everybody can visit Vera Cruz and go to
the vanilla fields because the fact that it's like a
dying plant, like it's not going to be around for
much longer. You have to go see how a vanilla
bean is made.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's just yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I also love when we I love when we traveled
to Spain because you know, we did the olive oil
and the wine episodes there. But I loved you know,
Mike and I were just walking down the street and
started talking about colonized diets and like, oh my god,
should we do an episode on that? And God, you know,
how do we reconcile being Mexican and Mexican American but
like having Spanish blood and we're in the mother country
(02:41):
and we're in the colonizer country, but yet we still
we speak Spanish, we're both Catholic, We're about you know,
all the traditions that come with it.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Like we're like, oh, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
It's so loaded. I mean, it's so loaded. And that
led us to our conversation with Claudia Serrato, which was
so interesting interesting. Yeah, and I think that just having
these conversations and just it takes us all over the world.
I mean, some of them greed. I mean, we've talked about,
like you said, native foods and this and that, and god,
it's just such a melting pot.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It's one thing that I learned that I was really
surprised by, and it might be the silliest thing that
Chilea's are berries.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I know that was mind blowing.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And also what I was blown away by was in
our beer episode that that's where really the notion of
witches came from because of the brewery was done by
women and they had to wear pointy hats in the
market for people to find them. What that's where the
witches hat comes from. Like, that was pretty fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
There's so many, so many things so.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That I love. By now people have realized Hungary for history.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
We talk a lot about a lot of different foods
in history, but really focused on our Mexican experience in
Mexican cuisine. And every time I mentioned to people that,
you know, UNESCO has added Mexican cuisine to their list
of Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity, which means it's like
a cultural treasure. The only other cuisine in its entirety
(04:24):
is French, so it's only French in Mexican cuisine protected
by UNESCO as an Intangible Cultural heritage for its farming methods,
it's cooking processes, an endemic and native utensils.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
It's important.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Like we're like wow, And I think people think of
Mexican food sometimes as not less than but just like
not as fancy as French or Italian and it's like, no, no,
it's the only the second cuisine that's added to UNESCO's
importance of this designation. And it goes beyond the taste buds.
(05:01):
It's centuries of recognition to value the food of Mexico.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, it's incredible. But what I find really interesting. I mean,
there's all of that, and Mexican food is extraordinary on
so many different levels, but it took centuries for Mexicans
themselves to recognize the value of their own food because
of colonization. And you know when we did our that
(05:28):
goes in street food episode, Oh that goes our you know,
lower class street food, and you know all of these
labels that were placed over the over the centuries by
by different people. It took many years for Mexicans, some
not all, but to think, oh, yeah, corn is really
(05:48):
valuable and corn has such a rich, long, deep history,
and I think it's it's still it's changing. I think now,
you know, people are really want to learn more. And
I think because people are so interested in where their
food comes from that these conversations are being hot right now.
(06:10):
And this is one of the reasons why I love
talking to you about this, you know, because it's exciting
to go back, to go back, and to go forward
and you know, sideways and explore it all.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I knew a lot of ingredients that were endemic to
Mexico because you and I were both pretty literate and
stuff like that, but there were some that I was
surprised about that weren't.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I was like, for sure, the lime is endemic to Mexico.
No it's not. It's you know, endemic to Asia.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Versy Lanthra, right, Like what yeah, Yeah. But I also
think Mexican food at the heart. At the heart I
think all food, but specifically Mexican food is tradition. It's
like a series of food traditions, and you can, you know,
visit all of these cookbooks and manuscripts and history and
(06:58):
see just the evolution of the people and that story
that's told through the food, whether immigration, conquest, colonization, you know, enslavement,
you know Vera Cruz with La Waca.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, I forgot about that. That's another highlight. Seeing that
another highlight of Vera Cruz.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
And then seeing you know, the indigenous and native culture
hold on with such a grip like we will not
give up. These traditions or these processes. You know, corn
survived that right, Their stories are able to be told
because of the food we eat today, and so you know,
the native experiences all around us.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
These crops, a lot of these crops have survived because
that's their job, has been taking care of these crops
from generation to generation to generation. And only now are
we paying attention.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well that yeah, it's living its oral history. It's living history.
And that's why I think talking about food and documenting
food and process and techniques is so important. You know,
the eating habits and culinary practices of a people or
region or a country is about telling the history.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Just the importance of writing down a recipe, making these dishes,
because things if you don't talk about it, if you
don't cook it, if you don't grow it, the stuff
will disappear.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, it'll be forgotten, totally, totally.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I also love that discussing food brings to light a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Politics, you know, economics.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Social issues, environmental issues, and the intersection of those issues
as they overlap on each other. But the intersection of
culture across time and place. And you know, whether it
was a street vendor episode or the decolonizing episode or
our cookbook episodes. Right, Like, there's a lot of social
(09:05):
issues that we touch upon that I think are worth discussing,
and I think an easy way into.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Those discussions is food.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Don't go anywhere, Hungry for History will be right back.
Have people asked you, like, what's authentic Mexican food or
what constitutes a truly authentic Mexican meal?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I have a problem with that word authentic, right, Like,
what is authentic you know mean? Because on the one hand,
there are so many versions I think of authentic you know, cuisine. Right,
So these these patterns of colonization or central to these
conversations about food and authenticity, and yeah, maybe it's possible
for a country to have multiple authentic cuisines. For the
(10:08):
final episode of Hungry for History, we wanted to interview
someone cooking food authentic to them while also challenging the perceptions.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Of Mexican food in the US.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Here's our interview with Cheffray Garcia, a Native Angelino who
draws culinary inspiration from the city's rich culture in California's
agricultural abundance. Chef so, one of our favorite questions to
ask our guests is what are your favorite childhood food memories.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
One of the biggest childhood memories for me was making
themalas around Christmas time because there was sort of a
whole family affairs, three generations of family working together on
one project, you know, all excited, all hungry, you know,
and this was when I was a kid, So it
just kind of added to that excitement.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Of of Christmas time.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
You know, we had we had a tradition we'd start
that themalas and then we would get them cooking, you know,
go to church, come back, eat that themala is open presence.
So that's something that's always been stuck in my head
when it comes to just the idea and the thought
of family and celebration and the connection to food.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So who are your heroes? Is there are there any chefs,
either professionals or home cooks that have inspired you on
your journey.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
I would say, not even culinary related.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
My biggest inspirations and influences have been my parents, not
even from a food standpoint, but just that I say,
my dad kept me working and my mom kept me dreaming.
And I think that that's really what is sort of
pushing me to the level that I am now, is
that that hard work and that dedication and that you know,
no one can tell you, you know, when when to stop,
(11:54):
and we can put limits on what you can do
except for yourself. And that's something that has driven me.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
On the food side though, I think, especially with Mexican
food is Carlos Toliato. He has an amazing restaurant in
Orange County, Taco Maria, and he opened up Taco Maria
around the same time, a little bit before we had
opened up Broken Spanish, and he was sort of a
you know, a soldier along, you know, with me in
(12:20):
this in this battle to bring you know, Alta, California
and the cuisine to the forefront. He's inspired me and
continues to do so and supports me as well as
a Portegavidia from Macienda.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
You know, without him, there would be there would be
no corn, there would be no no mass.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
At our restaurants.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
His dedication to land race corn, organic corn, bringing you know,
these crops back from from near extinction has been a huge,
huge asset for us.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You've been in the restaurant business for many, many years.
Can you tell us a little bit about your journey
and how things have evolved over the years.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
I mean, I have a long journey in this business.
Started in nineteen ninety four. I was a bus boy
at at a local Mexican restaurant, handing out chips and salsa.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
In that, you know, fell in love with the industry,
fell in love with food.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
It actually took me in the path to work more
on the on the service side, you know, as a waiter,
paying my way through through college. After that, fell in
love with with the kitchen, with the you know.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
My curiosity for ingredients, for technique, for execution. It took
me on a path through some very iron restaurants.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
And what I was finding is that I was getting
a certain I guess part of my curiosity filled and
I was learning a new skill.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
But it was still lacking a bit of connection for me.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
As I was making these recipes, I could I could
do them well, I could execute them well, but it
was really just me working off of a sheet of
paper that somebody handed me, and I could taste that
you have enough salt, is it cooked enough or undercook
But there wasn't that next level connection that I had
to other ingredients and other foods. So after about fifteen
(14:19):
years of cooking, mostly still a style of California cuisine,
but more eurocentric. I decided to shift into something that
connected with me personally, and that was Broken Spanish.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
And doing so, you know, it allowed.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
Me to connect to more than just those superficial ideas
of flavors and is this visually pleasing, but really connecting
two memories to happiness, to joy, to family. And I
feel like that allowed me to cook at not only
another level, but to connect with people and bring some
of those moments to them.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So tell us a little bit about Astrid. I've been there.
It's so delicious, amazing, So tell us about this restaurant
and how you evolved from Broken Spanish to Astrid.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Sure, I think I think the overall perception of Mexican
food is evolving, and in a positive way. Is it's
very in vogue, but I think it's still underappreciated and
undervalued when it comes to really understanding the diversity of
Mexican food and cuisine and culture and to really, you know,
(15:29):
assign it that same value that you might other other
other cuisines that are using near identical ingredients but manipulating
them in a in a different way. And you know,
at at Astrid, you know, it is a very Californian cuisine.
There is a very Californian restaurant, I should say, and
specifically Angelino in that it incorporates culinary traditions from all
(15:54):
around the world, but especially you know, Mexico, Latin America,
and some of those flavors that that I just really
enjoy cooking with and you'll see, you know, that appear
in many of the dishes that we do without it
being sort of a quote Mexican restaurant, but some of
those flavors and styles that I've worked on over the years.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
For people who might not be familiar with the term,
how do you define Alta California cuisine? What is it?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (16:31):
I think Alta California is more than just a geographic
you know, designation of you know, the areas of California
and some parts of the the south southwest there. But
it's really a cuisine that's it is rooted in in
you know, it's native Mexican heritage, but takes on inspiration
from from California, you know specifically, you know, the ingredients
(16:56):
and the techniques and for me, you know, it's it
goes through a very very Angelino lens or Angelino filter
and Los Angeles is a is a very you know,
there's a lot of diversity in people in cuisine, so
you are blessed with a lot of this cross pollination
of information in tradition that it works its way into
(17:18):
the flavors and the style of cooking that is out
the California.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Last question, are there any misconceptions about Mexican food or
Mexican American food that you would like to clear up?
Speaker 5 (17:30):
Yeah, well, there's there's a lot of perceptions and misconceptions
about Mexican food. I think the biggest thing is that
people's unwillingness to pay for quality ingredients and quality craftsmanship
and workmanship when it comes to Mexican food, I think
that there's a stigma about it that you know, it
should be it should be cheap, it should be you know,
(17:51):
a top rush of costs.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
You want no more than two or three dollars.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
And that there's you know, a limit to you know,
the creativity and and the you know, the flavor profile.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
And that's not it. And Mexican food is.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
More than dishes that you order by it by number
and a large plate of rice and beans with milf
and cheese over the top of it, so I would
say it out there and explore and appreciate.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Chef Ray, Thank you so much for joining the show.
Thank you so much for joining Hungary for History. We
are so excited to feature you on our last episode.
Thank you so much for taking the time. We've got
more after the break, so don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
What do you think the perception of Mexican food is
here in the US.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I think that it's changing, right, I mean, I think
that there are a number of high end Mexican restaurants
that have opened up in the city or in the
US rather. But I think a lot of people still
think that if Mexican food is expensive, it's not authentic,
because Mexican food should be cheap street food. But this
(19:10):
to downplay this Mexican fine dining just downplays the contributions
and the experiences of Mexicans who call the US home.
I think it sort of minimizes the importance, you know,
and the respect for Mexican food ways and you know,
traditions and innovation and history and flavor. But I think
(19:31):
that it's changing. There are a lot of people, I
think that have introduced sort of fine dining, and people
are becoming much more open about it. But I think
Mexicans are maybe not seen, you know, as accepted as
much as Mexican food.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Well, Mexican cuisine is. It is one of the most
popular ethnic cuisines in the United States because it's the
most popular or ethnic cuisine in twenty seven states, and
Chinese food is the most popular in twenty two other states.
So Mexico inches out being one of the most popular
(20:13):
ethnic cuisine in the United States.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, I mean it's really interesting. So I'm wondering, like
if claiming the inexpensive street baccal or the hole in
the wall no frills place, calling that authentic, does it
inflict damage on an already marginalized community.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I don't know, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Maybe the sort of no frills interior design comes out
of necessity, and then this necessity becomes authenticity. So I
don't know what does that mean for chefs Mexican or
Mexican American chefs that want to carve new paths, you know,
I think it's a struggle.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
What does it mean also for non Mexican chefs doing
Mexican food, like Rick Bayless, right, he's like an authority
on Mexican food, especially in a conversation today about who
gets to cook and say and where what. Yeah, I
think it's an interesting conversation. I don't know the answer
to it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I don't know the answer to it, but yeah, I
mean he was he has you know, the PBS show
and Susan Fenneger and Mary Milligan when they opened they
Orpen Border Grill and had a Food Network show in
the nineties called two Hot Tamales That would not Fly,
That would not Friday. No, that would not fly today,
Fly today.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
But we also have to celebrate you know, those Mexican
Americans are Mexicans that are carving paths in the food
industry as well, like Zarela Martinez who put Mexican fine
dining on the map in New York in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You know her restaurant Zarella.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
It served everything from tuna withpan and then her son
Adon Sanchez, who I wanted to develop a go around,
you know, followed in her footsteps and he's had multiple
Food Network shows. He has a James Beard Award. I mean,
you know, to celebrate them as well. Or Jorgue Gavida
our first guest.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, his book Massa is just a national bestseller. I mean,
he was voted and the book was voted one of
the best cookbooks of twenty twenty two and it's last year.
Yeah yeah, And it's a book on the history of corn,
and this is a bestseller. There are so many people
your show, you know, just bringing I mean, it's a
love letter to Mexico.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Searching for Mexico really was a dream trip and a
show that I think will finally show the beauty of
this amazing country of Mexico, because when you're talking about foods,
you're talking about people, and the people of Mexico are
really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
So I just feel like, you know, what's the future
for Mexican food in this country and how are people
perceiving this cuisine or how this cuisine is changing, because
it's allowed to change, it's allowed to evolve, it's allowed
to be a fusion, it's allowed to like, I think
all those things are exciting.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
There's so many people that are experimenting and doing such
interesting things, and I agree it's exciting.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Well, let me tell you, we have loved going on
this journey with y'all, and we hope you had as
much fun as we did. I mean, if you could
see our text messages to each other, you guys would
know just how happy and excited we have been to
do this show.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Thank you to all of our listeners. Please share the
podcast with friends and family, and don't forget to like
rate us, leave us messages. We really love hearing from you.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And a special shout out to all the guests who
did participate.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Thank you so much. You helped make this show very special.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
So thank you for really making this a memorable season one.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Thank you so much, and thank you Eva.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Thank you my Dan, I love you, Love you. Hungry
for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership with
Iheart'smichaultura podcast network.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.