April 18, 2024 • 28 mins
The debate rages on.
Are there any redeeming qualities about Christopher?
Superfan Michelle thinks so, and she presents a compelling perspective.
But. listen until the very end, for a surprising (or not) outcome.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am all in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in podcast. iHeartRadio,
R Heart Media, I Heart Podcast, one eleven Productions, one
eleven Podcasts, one eleven Media. There's so many companies to name. Hi, Michelle,
Welcome to the podcast. You're joined by the trepid crew
of Daniel Romo, Terras, Dude, Amy Sugarman, Suzanne French.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And this is an episode of Point Counterpoint, with the
topic being Christopher akak Stiffer and I'm here for it.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I like Christopher, say.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You guys, So Michelle, you tell how we connect. But
I will say I didn't know until this very moment
where she stood on the Christopher versus Xtiffer. So nobody
write us and say I selected.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Well.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
My brother in law grew up in southern LA and
he's one of those people that just kind of knows everybody.
And I asked him one day because I really wanted
to get on the podcast. I said, do you happen
to know somebody named Amy Sugarman? And he said, yeah,
she was my sister's roommate in college. His sister is
(01:37):
JJ Martin and then he said his friend was actually
going to your house for around Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So you guys, like, this is completely unbeknownst to me
that Michelle just randomly lobbed out how did I get
on this podcast?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
And then her rando brother in law was like, well.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
In fact, I actually know her.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Yeah, JJ Martin a shout out.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
So, JJ Martin is a sorority sister of mine who
has gone on to literally have this fancy, fancy, amazing
designer clothing line and it's called Law Double J.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
So shout out to our connection. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Yeah, she's amazing. She lives in Italy and she's in
Vogue all the time. I had no idea she was
like such a celebrity.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, she's like a legit full baller. But that's not
why we're here. Yeah, we're here to debate. Suzanne get
ready got spired up Christopher versus xtaper.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Michelle, you have the floor.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I happened to really like Christopher. I feel like he
is that high school sweetheart of Rory's. I love that
they had the young love and that connection. I feel
he's a better match for her in the middle of
the seasons for rather than Luke. Although I do feel.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That for me?
Speaker 4 (03:10):
For me, but I feel towards season six and season
seventh at the end, after you know, she leaves Christopher,
that Luke is the better match. But the only thing
I don't really like about him is the way he
was a father to to Rory, being absent in her life.
But I feel like he really stepped it up. So
(03:32):
I'm a fan. Scott.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Would you like to rebut first or would you like
me to just ask my questions? Oh, Scott froze, which
I think, Oh my god, Scott.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, first, Okay, my question is how does an absent
father for the entire life of a child have any
redeeming qualities?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
So was he actual absent? I mean, I think he
bothered from a distance, but he wasn't completely out of
our life. He still had a relationship with her. It
just wasn't that, you know. He was more of the
Disneyland dad, which I can relate to as well. Yeah. So,
(04:20):
and I think he stepped it up once he got money.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, and he was sort of dipping his toe in. Okay,
So here's our first question for you, and Suzanne's gathering
her fixed to her thoughts to him. Do you think
they have chemistry, because this was a big debate for
us in the episode we just did. Do you think
Lorelai and Christopher have chemistry?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I think they almost had like a brother sister chemistry
going on like in season one in season two with
the bickering and the little kid jokes and all of that,
but I think it developed into a real world man.
But in the end, she always wanted Luke deep down,
(05:08):
which I don't necessarily agree with fully, but.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, they have.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Like you kind of alluded to this, they do have
chemistry in that high school college ye way right, the
way you kind of do with like your first boyfriend
or your prom date. Like, they do have that, and
it is I think Suzanne sort of alluded to this
earlier this week when she said they revert back, and
(05:36):
I do think that that is accurate, Like they really
kind of go back to their younger days.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
And I think, Okay, I'm gonna throw this out there.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
When something major happens in your life, typically trauma, which
you could just say a teen pregnancy is a bit traumatic,
you can be frozen in that age. So they do
go back to that sixteen year old age.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
I think they'll always have that no matter what, like
whether we like Christopher or we don't, you can't deny
that they are bonded and had have a relationship.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
And I'll never go away. I agree with you. I
think he's cute.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Michelle, what do you think of David slash Christopher?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Just like physically, I think he's okay. I think Luke
was much more handsome in the in the show, not
just saying that because he's on here, but Christopher's not
my type. I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Wait, Susanne, you don't, You're not You don't think, Susanne
wiyh in.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
I don't want to put words in your mouth. You
give it. What is your thought on Christopher.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
The actor or the character?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
The character, but the physicality of David Sutcliffe, Well, I
think in a shocking turn here, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I think Christopher always has kind of a weird grin
on his face, and and he always, like when he's
looking at Lorla, he gets this like really intense, like
weird stare. And I don't so, I don't know if
that's an acting thing or if that's just how he
really is.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I'm I agree that they have like a friendship kind
of chemistry. I don't feel like a lot of romantic
kind of chemistry. I don't feel like Christopher is her
soulmate at all. I think he's just the boyfriend that
happened to get her pregnant in high school. And I
do agree with what you were saying, Tara, that they
because they that unexpected pregnancy did happen, Like that's always
(07:41):
going to connect them. They're always going to have a
bond for better or worse, They're always going to be
tied together in that way. But I think that they
really go back to, you know, and like I said
in the in the recap episode, they really are trying
to recapture whatever it was that they had as teenagers.
(08:02):
I don't think that they have really that much in
common as adults in their current place in life. And
they they you know, their banter, it goes back to
kind of a junior high kind of feel and the
clove cigarettes and.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Just ribbing each other kind of the way you do
with your high school like boyfriend, the kind of like
ribbing each other. Wait, so Scott, I have a question
for you, but you need to take a deep breath
before I ask it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Oh, I've been exhaling.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Okay, is there so try try to remove yourself and
being luke from this.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Is there anything redeeming?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
No, I'm reacting as a fan as well. Okay, being objected?
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Okay, fair?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Is there anything redeeming you can find in Christopher and
possibly Christopher and lorealize relationship?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I mean listen, if somebody is that big of a
loser and they get their act together and they you know,
they have a moral crisis, and they realize that the
right thing to do is to come back into their
daughter's life, I think that is redeeming. I don't know
(09:17):
that it's one hundred percent redeeming, but that's a good
quality to have. Okay. And now the fact that he
has money, I think if you really love somebody, there's
there's that part of love loving somebody that means you
let them go so that they can be happy. Like
(09:40):
you had your shot. He had his shot, Yeah, and
it was like he had thirty five years of his shot. Sorry,
not so twenty years of it. Yeah, and it's like
here she is in a relationship and she's happy with
this guy.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So since we kicked Danielle out, Suzanne Tara and Michelle
because Scott won't totally know. Don't you think finally in
the movies, we really see that that ship has sailed
with Christopher.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I mean I think we see it in season seven,
you know, when she finally does, you know, break it
off and just seal that, you know, put it behind
the cement wall and steel it off. Like I think
they both realized, Okay, this wasn't meant to happen. It
was just too forced. It wasn't smooth enough, it wasn't
(10:47):
easy enough, it didn't flow. And I think that I
think we saw that even in season seven.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Christopher looks so sad in the movies though, I mean
he is not committing in relationships. He looked like he
had just not been happy over the last ten years.
So maybe he still wanted Laura Lai when he has
that conversation with Rory in his office and when she
(11:15):
starts questioning him why he wasn't around as much as
he could have been, and he just seems sad. But
Laura Lai seems really happy with Luke and she's where
she's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I think when you have a child, it just changes
the whole atmosphere. I mean, that's that's.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Your kid, and I'm talking about Rory or.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I'm talking about I'm talking about Rory. I'm talking about Yeah.
And it's like it's better that somebody sees the light
and steps up, as Michelle is talking about and makes
an effort. But on the dad's side to his daughter
(11:58):
to really get involved and almost a reckless way in
her romantic life and to want to really have everything
back one hundred percent, I think I think it's just selfish.
I think a better person would realize that, hey, I
(12:21):
can be a great dad to my daughter Rory, be
in her life and be a friend with Laurlai and
be there when she needs me, and then I can
tend to my own daughter, Gigi. I mean, it's like,
what is this guy doing. He's like all over the place,
He's a mess.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Is your thought like that he's finally rebuilding the relationship
with Rory right, and this like intent, you know, feelings
he has towards Loralai and continuing to try that is
actually harming what he's repaired with Rory. And I don't
want to put words in your mouth, but is that right?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean, it's like at a certain when you've had
a twenty year shot and you've blown it, let's just
repair one thing so that Rory can have her dad
for the rest of her life or the rest of
Christopher's life, natural life. And I think that's noble, and
I think he I think the character lacks nobility, and
(13:20):
that's that's really his tragic flaw. I think Luke possesses
all of the nobility that one can possess in his
kind of blue collarish way. So that's really all I'm
trying to say. I think I think it's great. I
think he always steps too far right. He doesn't prioritize
(13:43):
the relationship with his daughter, and he never did, and
now he's not doing it again.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
He's Yeah, to me, he's just like a teenager. He's
just like a young soul that's just here trying to
figure it out and has made a lot of mistakes
along the way.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Right, this guy's never doing the right things in his
teenage years.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, and he's just convinced that Lorelai is his true love, right,
and he cannot let it go.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
But don't you see so much growth with him and
his parenting skills with Gigi? I mean he's a completely
different father to Gigi than he was.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
True, well, yeah, the only parent she has right now.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Mm hmm, yeah no.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
But but I also don't I don't really agree because
he didn't know how to control Gigi like she was
a terror when she was giving her everything she wants. Yeah,
so I don't even I don't think he tried. I
mean maybe now where we're watching right now, we haven't
seen Gigi, but maybe it's better. But I don't think
that he was still parenting her the way a dad
(14:46):
should have.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think he was probably so overwhelmed with it. Wasn't
he having a very contentious relationship with the baby mama?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah she bailed him, Yeah, she bails and now she's
off in parents.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
And he and he's got a million, you know, entrepreneurial goals,
and the potential revenue streams that he's trying to set
up in half of them are fail doing. Okay, so
he's all over the place, and he's not spending the
time reading the books or talking to the psychologists, talking
to pediatricians about parenting skills.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
But now we think he's got always.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Seems to be the last priority for him, because he's
such a mess, right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I do see your point, Michelle. I think he did
develop a sense of responsibility more than he's ever had.
And I think he also developed sort of an appreciation
for what Loralai had been going through all those years
that he was flitting around California and kind of, you know,
understood what she went through at a much younger age
(15:50):
than when he was going through it. But at the
same time, he is, like you were just saying, Scott,
the parenting is still a lower priority, like the he's
always taking mom's house or like we don't see her
that often because she's with his mom, and and you know,
that's a whole other thing about how his parents or
(16:11):
his mom likes Gigi but never liked Rory.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Like that's a whole different look. With Christopher. There's remorse,
there's consciousness of guilt, and there's an attempt to step up. Yeah,
the problem is is he's just so bad at it
and he's always screwing it up, and something in his
life is always sabotaging even his own efforts. And then
he comes off on the other hand, like you know,
(16:39):
Dirk Diggler, and here he comes in for the you know,
the big romantic stuff and take me seriously. And it's like,
how supposed to take this guy seriously as a character
when he can't even get the little stuff right with
his own daughter, their daughter, and now we're supposed to
sort of respect him as a man who's good enough
for Laura. It's a it's a hard leak to.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Make, but I have to give Christopher some whatever the
term is.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Great. Of course, his dad was horrible.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
He has one of the meanest dads.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
My dad was, but you guys see him. Hang on
a second, how old is christ How old is Christopher
right now?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
He's a thirty five?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, okay, you can't. You can't whine about your daddy.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Yeah you can, because his.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Dad is well after twenty five, you can.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
That's not a rule.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Is a rule.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
There's plenty of people in therapy, therapy at fifty talking
about their parents.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Fine, but they don't sit around and let it sabotage
their lives and they don't.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Well, what I'm asking you, guys, is, don't I mean.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
We saw that episode where Christopher's dad was so.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Horrible terrible?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah, so don't I mean, like, I don't blame you
feel like.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
He's turned out better than he could have sunlight. I
don't know, Michelle, what are your final thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Well, you guys have kind of swayed my opinions a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I don't. I don't. I don't like, I don't like.
I don't like fathers that abandon their kids. There's no
excuse for it. I do not. I detest people like that,
moms that abandon their kids, dads abandon their kids. It
really should.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Definitely dislike Sherry because it's the saale Gigi completely.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Doesn't mean that Christopher has to run around screwing up
everybody's lives at the right. Yeah, doesn't. That's no excuse.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah, Like, my husband was a teenage parent, you know,
and so he was seventeen with a baby and involved
in her life in.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Every possible way, fantastical.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
So being young is not an excuse.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It is not an excuse. It's still yeah, it's an
absolutely yes, it is a choice. You wake up in
the morning and you make a choice.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I do think that he wanted to make that choice,
and Laurel I rejected that choice for him. So I'm
not saying he shouldn't have wrong.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Well, no, she did.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
She definitely did there's courts. No, he could have he
could have been present in Rory's life through the courts.
He could have fought for his own daughter to be
in her life, and he chose not to. He chose
to go away because he's a weak person, well, who
is always looking for an excuse and a way out.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
There's there's several instances of various evidence throughout the show
that that was a choice that he made to stay away.
Not Laura, I if you in the episode, well, the
episode where he comes back to town first of all,
and then the episode where uh oh, when Rory has
the debutante ball and she's trying to get Christopher to
(19:58):
come back. It's they the dialogue, they make it very
clear that it was Christopher's choice to stay away, and
they she tells Rory, Oh, he's one hundred percent for
sure going to be there, and then Rory's like, oh,
so there's a fifty to fifty chance, Like it's clear
that it's he's like the deadbeat.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Well, I don't, I don't sure. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Part of me though, knows that in some way, I
do think he was sort of honoring and everybody can
yell at me, what Laura Lai wanted Laura la He
wanted to marry her. He was going to move in
with the Gilmours and work for the you know, either
Richard or his dad, and he wanted to be he
was going to marry Lorlai and she said, no.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
La, it's not Laureli's decision to make on how often
he can see his own daughter. He didn't do anything
so horrible, right, What what did he do that was
so horrible? He wasn't abusive to either one of them.
We would have gotten that door in the backstory thus far.
(21:02):
He was just a flake and he didn't he didn't
fight for his own daughter, He didn't fight for his
own family.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Characters a little bit more benefit of the doubt than
maybe others. And that's okay, I'm giving him a little
bit of So you're.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Saying as as a teenager and as a guy in
his twenties, and how many times he tried to come
back to Rory's life. Every single time Rory convinced him
that you're please stay away. The best, the best thing
you can do is stay away because you're so weak,
and he goes, yeah, you're right, I am, so I'm
not saying that find myself. Well, that's basically what you're saying.
(21:37):
He never stepped up and fought for his own daughter.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You you these kinds of people deserve zero respect in
my book.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Well, I also think it comes back.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Even if they're on television, it comes back, and they
have great haircuts, and they wear nice clothes and they
smile real nice.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
It kind of comes back, lying, Yeah, it kind of
comes back to right now, how like Christopher will do
anything Laurel I says, like we literally talked about this
in the episode we just recapped, and yeah, puppy dog
and so like it actually checks out because he's consistent,
(22:18):
Like he's consistently done whatever she is.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
That's a good point talk, you know, like stay away
from what she suggests, stay.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Away from me and Rory. Okay, I will come around
for her birthday. Okay, I will if you want to
pay for school, okay. You know, like he's just he's
just a yes man for whatever Laura I wants. Because
I think in the end, he wants Laura I, and
so he'll do whatever she wants.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
For him, Laurel I has always been more of a
priority than Rory.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Yes, yeah, I agree with that. I don't know if
we solved the mystery of christ.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It's not a mystery, it's it's it's the least complicated
thing in the world. He's just a deadbeat, That's all
there is to it.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
I respectfully disagree.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I don't find him to be what I would classify
as that, but I understand your passion for disliking him.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oy, I stand by your kids. Man, I don't care
who you are. I don't care.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
So Michelle are you?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Are you glad you joined us as.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
A little starstruck at first? When I sat, Scott thought
that I calmed down, But it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Tara, Suzanne and me rude.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
You guys are amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Okay, so wait, obviously, if we were gonna ask you, Christopher, Digger, Maxi,
Madie Rune, who else?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Who is your favorite? Who's your number two?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
I think she had a lot of chemistry with Digger
with dinner. Yeah okay, yeah, she really did. But I
think you know, he was just in her life for
a season. Ultimately she should be with Luke.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
He had a ch living room, he really did, and
beautiful breakfast spreads. But remember the brief relationship with the
coffee guy. I could have had him stick around, you know, Twilight.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, he's on Fire Country or Fire County or
whatever that show is now.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Yeah, Bello, Bella's dad. Yeah, with runs with him. Yeah,
I can't think of his name.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, he's fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Hold on, I'm looking it up.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Charlie.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Billy Burke, Billy Burke.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeh, Billy Burks a great, great musician.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Great, great, Well, Michelle, you get the final thoughts to
end this episode.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
What is your favorite thing about Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
It just gives me this really nostalgic feeling, small town charm.
I watch it every single day. It just is soothing
to me. It makes me. My husband laughs because I
laugh every time like it's a new new to me.
But my favorite thing about it is probably just all
(25:44):
the quick, quirky one liners. I just love all of them.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
And I'm amazing. Isn't it amazing about this show, Michelle?
About all these great one liners. It's it's it's the
funny show. It's just so funny. It is so many.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Yeah, every time I rewatch it, I see something I
haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Before, right right, right, exactly. It's brilliant. It's just brilliant
that way. It really is.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Well, even though we fought you, we're glad you're here.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Thank you, so excited to be on.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Thanks Michelle for coming on and appreciate sharing our thoughts.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I'm sorry for stalking you, Amy, Please I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Look, apologies for being such wallflowers. We are very, very
very hesitant to share our opinions. As you can what
was on display? Come back anytime and you'll probably change
your phone number after this and wait.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Maybe from Michelle you could deliver the uh you know
that I am all in mine?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
What is that in line?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
What was out the episode with our line I am
all in? I bet you'd like to hear you say it.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
What do you mean the outro?
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Yeah, say I am all in?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You want me to say that to Michelle right now?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:05):
I think she would like to hear it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And remember Michelle always I am all in? Or should
I say it like Luke said?
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Give it to us like Luke? Sure?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
What am I trained? Seal here? Give me another fish
and I'll do anything. Michelle, thanks for coming on, much appreciated.
We'll just see everybody next time. Thank you and trepid Crewe, Susan.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Everybody's left us, but but.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Uren, Everybody's gone all right. Thank you so much, Michelle,
You're great bear with us and sharing your thoughts on
this particular episode. And best fans on the planet, keep downloading,
keep sending us your cards and letters. Really appreciate you.
Love your best fans will planet our and remember we
(27:58):
and I am all In stay, save everyone, Hey everybody,
(28:29):
and don't forget. Follow us on Instagram at I Am
all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at iHeartRadio
dot com.
I am all in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I am all in with Scott Patterson an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in podcast. iHeartRadio,
R Heart Media, I Heart Podcast, one eleven Productions, one
eleven Podcasts, one eleven Media. There's so many companies to name. Hi, Michelle,
Welcome to the podcast. You're joined by the trepid crew
of Daniel Romo, Terras, Dude, Amy Sugarman, Suzanne French.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And this is an episode of Point Counterpoint, with the
topic being Christopher akak Stiffer and I'm here for it.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I like Christopher, say.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You guys, So Michelle, you tell how we connect. But
I will say I didn't know until this very moment
where she stood on the Christopher versus Xtiffer. So nobody
write us and say I selected.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Well.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
My brother in law grew up in southern LA and
he's one of those people that just kind of knows everybody.
And I asked him one day because I really wanted
to get on the podcast. I said, do you happen
to know somebody named Amy Sugarman? And he said, yeah,
she was my sister's roommate in college. His sister is
(01:37):
JJ Martin and then he said his friend was actually
going to your house for around Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So you guys, like, this is completely unbeknownst to me
that Michelle just randomly lobbed out how did I get
on this podcast?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
And then her rando brother in law was like, well.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
In fact, I actually know her.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Yeah, JJ Martin a shout out.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
So, JJ Martin is a sorority sister of mine who
has gone on to literally have this fancy, fancy, amazing
designer clothing line and it's called Law Double J.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
So shout out to our connection. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Yeah, she's amazing. She lives in Italy and she's in
Vogue all the time. I had no idea she was
like such a celebrity.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, she's like a legit full baller. But that's not
why we're here. Yeah, we're here to debate. Suzanne get
ready got spired up Christopher versus xtaper.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Michelle, you have the floor.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
I happened to really like Christopher. I feel like he
is that high school sweetheart of Rory's. I love that
they had the young love and that connection. I feel
he's a better match for her in the middle of
the seasons for rather than Luke. Although I do feel.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That for me?
Speaker 4 (03:10):
For me, but I feel towards season six and season
seventh at the end, after you know, she leaves Christopher,
that Luke is the better match. But the only thing
I don't really like about him is the way he
was a father to to Rory, being absent in her life.
But I feel like he really stepped it up. So
(03:32):
I'm a fan. Scott.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Would you like to rebut first or would you like
me to just ask my questions? Oh, Scott froze, which
I think, Oh my god, Scott.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Okay, first, Okay, my question is how does an absent
father for the entire life of a child have any
redeeming qualities?
Speaker 4 (03:58):
So was he actual absent? I mean, I think he
bothered from a distance, but he wasn't completely out of
our life. He still had a relationship with her. It
just wasn't that, you know. He was more of the
Disneyland dad, which I can relate to as well. Yeah. So,
(04:20):
and I think he stepped it up once he got money.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, and he was sort of dipping his toe in. Okay,
So here's our first question for you, and Suzanne's gathering
her fixed to her thoughts to him. Do you think
they have chemistry, because this was a big debate for
us in the episode we just did. Do you think
Lorelai and Christopher have chemistry?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I think they almost had like a brother sister chemistry
going on like in season one in season two with
the bickering and the little kid jokes and all of that,
but I think it developed into a real world man.
But in the end, she always wanted Luke deep down,
(05:08):
which I don't necessarily agree with fully, but.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, they have.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Like you kind of alluded to this, they do have
chemistry in that high school college ye way right, the
way you kind of do with like your first boyfriend
or your prom date. Like, they do have that, and
it is I think Suzanne sort of alluded to this
earlier this week when she said they revert back, and
(05:36):
I do think that that is accurate, Like they really
kind of go back to their younger days.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
And I think, Okay, I'm gonna throw this out there.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
When something major happens in your life, typically trauma, which
you could just say a teen pregnancy is a bit traumatic,
you can be frozen in that age. So they do
go back to that sixteen year old age.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
I think they'll always have that no matter what, like
whether we like Christopher or we don't, you can't deny
that they are bonded and had have a relationship.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
And I'll never go away. I agree with you. I
think he's cute.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Michelle, what do you think of David slash Christopher?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Just like physically, I think he's okay. I think Luke
was much more handsome in the in the show, not
just saying that because he's on here, but Christopher's not
my type. I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Wait, Susanne, you don't, You're not You don't think, Susanne
wiyh in.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
I don't want to put words in your mouth. You
give it. What is your thought on Christopher.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
The actor or the character?
Speaker 3 (06:45):
The character, but the physicality of David Sutcliffe, Well, I
think in a shocking turn here, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I think Christopher always has kind of a weird grin
on his face, and and he always, like when he's
looking at Lorla, he gets this like really intense, like
weird stare. And I don't so, I don't know if
that's an acting thing or if that's just how he
really is.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I'm I agree that they have like a friendship kind
of chemistry. I don't feel like a lot of romantic
kind of chemistry. I don't feel like Christopher is her
soulmate at all. I think he's just the boyfriend that
happened to get her pregnant in high school. And I
do agree with what you were saying, Tara, that they
because they that unexpected pregnancy did happen, Like that's always
(07:41):
going to connect them. They're always going to have a
bond for better or worse, They're always going to be
tied together in that way. But I think that they
really go back to, you know, and like I said
in the in the recap episode, they really are trying
to recapture whatever it was that they had as teenagers.
(08:02):
I don't think that they have really that much in
common as adults in their current place in life. And
they they you know, their banter, it goes back to
kind of a junior high kind of feel and the
clove cigarettes and.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Just ribbing each other kind of the way you do
with your high school like boyfriend, the kind of like
ribbing each other. Wait, so Scott, I have a question
for you, but you need to take a deep breath
before I ask it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Oh, I've been exhaling.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Okay, is there so try try to remove yourself and
being luke from this.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Is there anything redeeming?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
No, I'm reacting as a fan as well. Okay, being objected?
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Okay, fair?
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Is there anything redeeming you can find in Christopher and
possibly Christopher and lorealize relationship?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I mean listen, if somebody is that big of a
loser and they get their act together and they you know,
they have a moral crisis, and they realize that the
right thing to do is to come back into their
daughter's life, I think that is redeeming. I don't know
(09:17):
that it's one hundred percent redeeming, but that's a good
quality to have. Okay. And now the fact that he
has money, I think if you really love somebody, there's
there's that part of love loving somebody that means you
let them go so that they can be happy. Like
(09:40):
you had your shot. He had his shot, Yeah, and
it was like he had thirty five years of his shot. Sorry,
not so twenty years of it. Yeah, and it's like
here she is in a relationship and she's happy with
this guy.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So since we kicked Danielle out, Suzanne Tara and Michelle
because Scott won't totally know. Don't you think finally in
the movies, we really see that that ship has sailed
with Christopher.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I mean I think we see it in season seven,
you know, when she finally does, you know, break it
off and just seal that, you know, put it behind
the cement wall and steel it off. Like I think
they both realized, Okay, this wasn't meant to happen. It
was just too forced. It wasn't smooth enough, it wasn't
(10:47):
easy enough, it didn't flow. And I think that I
think we saw that even in season seven.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Christopher looks so sad in the movies though, I mean
he is not committing in relationships. He looked like he
had just not been happy over the last ten years.
So maybe he still wanted Laura Lai when he has
that conversation with Rory in his office and when she
(11:15):
starts questioning him why he wasn't around as much as
he could have been, and he just seems sad. But
Laura Lai seems really happy with Luke and she's where
she's supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I think when you have a child, it just changes
the whole atmosphere. I mean, that's that's.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
Your kid, and I'm talking about Rory or.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I'm talking about I'm talking about Rory. I'm talking about Yeah.
And it's like it's better that somebody sees the light
and steps up, as Michelle is talking about and makes
an effort. But on the dad's side to his daughter
(11:58):
to really get involved and almost a reckless way in
her romantic life and to want to really have everything
back one hundred percent, I think I think it's just selfish.
I think a better person would realize that, hey, I
(12:21):
can be a great dad to my daughter Rory, be
in her life and be a friend with Laurlai and
be there when she needs me, and then I can
tend to my own daughter, Gigi. I mean, it's like,
what is this guy doing. He's like all over the place,
He's a mess.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Is your thought like that he's finally rebuilding the relationship
with Rory right, and this like intent, you know, feelings
he has towards Loralai and continuing to try that is
actually harming what he's repaired with Rory. And I don't
want to put words in your mouth, but is that right?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I mean, it's like at a certain when you've had
a twenty year shot and you've blown it, let's just
repair one thing so that Rory can have her dad
for the rest of her life or the rest of
Christopher's life, natural life. And I think that's noble, and
I think he I think the character lacks nobility, and
(13:20):
that's that's really his tragic flaw. I think Luke possesses
all of the nobility that one can possess in his
kind of blue collarish way. So that's really all I'm
trying to say. I think I think it's great. I
think he always steps too far right. He doesn't prioritize
(13:43):
the relationship with his daughter, and he never did, and
now he's not doing it again.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
He's Yeah, to me, he's just like a teenager. He's
just like a young soul that's just here trying to
figure it out and has made a lot of mistakes
along the way.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Right, this guy's never doing the right things in his
teenage years.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yeah, and he's just convinced that Lorelai is his true love, right,
and he cannot let it go.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
But don't you see so much growth with him and
his parenting skills with Gigi? I mean he's a completely
different father to Gigi than he was.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
True, well, yeah, the only parent she has right now.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Mm hmm, yeah no.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
But but I also don't I don't really agree because
he didn't know how to control Gigi like she was
a terror when she was giving her everything she wants. Yeah,
so I don't even I don't think he tried. I
mean maybe now where we're watching right now, we haven't
seen Gigi, but maybe it's better. But I don't think
that he was still parenting her the way a dad
(14:46):
should have.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think he was probably so overwhelmed with it. Wasn't
he having a very contentious relationship with the baby mama?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah she bailed him, Yeah, she bails and now she's
off in parents.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
And he and he's got a million, you know, entrepreneurial goals,
and the potential revenue streams that he's trying to set
up in half of them are fail doing. Okay, so
he's all over the place, and he's not spending the
time reading the books or talking to the psychologists, talking
to pediatricians about parenting skills.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
But now we think he's got always.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Seems to be the last priority for him, because he's
such a mess, right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I do see your point, Michelle. I think he did
develop a sense of responsibility more than he's ever had.
And I think he also developed sort of an appreciation
for what Loralai had been going through all those years
that he was flitting around California and kind of, you know,
understood what she went through at a much younger age
(15:50):
than when he was going through it. But at the
same time, he is, like you were just saying, Scott,
the parenting is still a lower priority, like the he's
always taking mom's house or like we don't see her
that often because she's with his mom, and and you know,
that's a whole other thing about how his parents or
(16:11):
his mom likes Gigi but never liked Rory.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Like that's a whole different look. With Christopher. There's remorse,
there's consciousness of guilt, and there's an attempt to step up. Yeah,
the problem is is he's just so bad at it
and he's always screwing it up, and something in his
life is always sabotaging even his own efforts. And then
he comes off on the other hand, like you know,
(16:39):
Dirk Diggler, and here he comes in for the you know,
the big romantic stuff and take me seriously. And it's like,
how supposed to take this guy seriously as a character
when he can't even get the little stuff right with
his own daughter, their daughter, and now we're supposed to
sort of respect him as a man who's good enough
for Laura. It's a it's a hard leak to.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Make, but I have to give Christopher some whatever the
term is.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Great. Of course, his dad was horrible.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
He has one of the meanest dads.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
My dad was, but you guys see him. Hang on
a second, how old is christ How old is Christopher
right now?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
He's a thirty five?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, okay, you can't. You can't whine about your daddy.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Yeah you can, because his.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Dad is well after twenty five, you can.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
That's not a rule.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Is a rule.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
There's plenty of people in therapy, therapy at fifty talking
about their parents.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Fine, but they don't sit around and let it sabotage
their lives and they don't.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Well, what I'm asking you, guys, is, don't I mean.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
We saw that episode where Christopher's dad was so.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Horrible terrible?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah, so don't I mean, like, I don't blame you
feel like.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
He's turned out better than he could have sunlight. I
don't know, Michelle, what are your final thoughts on it?
Speaker 4 (18:07):
Well, you guys have kind of swayed my opinions a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I don't. I don't. I don't like, I don't like.
I don't like fathers that abandon their kids. There's no
excuse for it. I do not. I detest people like that,
moms that abandon their kids, dads abandon their kids. It
really should.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Definitely dislike Sherry because it's the saale Gigi completely.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Doesn't mean that Christopher has to run around screwing up
everybody's lives at the right. Yeah, doesn't. That's no excuse.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah, Like, my husband was a teenage parent, you know,
and so he was seventeen with a baby and involved
in her life in.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Every possible way, fantastical.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
So being young is not an excuse.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
It is not an excuse. It's still yeah, it's an
absolutely yes, it is a choice. You wake up in
the morning and you make a choice.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I do think that he wanted to make that choice,
and Laurel I rejected that choice for him. So I'm
not saying he shouldn't have wrong.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Well, no, she did.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
She definitely did there's courts. No, he could have he
could have been present in Rory's life through the courts.
He could have fought for his own daughter to be
in her life, and he chose not to. He chose
to go away because he's a weak person, well, who
is always looking for an excuse and a way out.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
There's there's several instances of various evidence throughout the show
that that was a choice that he made to stay away.
Not Laura, I if you in the episode, well, the
episode where he comes back to town first of all,
and then the episode where uh oh, when Rory has
the debutante ball and she's trying to get Christopher to
(19:58):
come back. It's they the dialogue, they make it very
clear that it was Christopher's choice to stay away, and
they she tells Rory, Oh, he's one hundred percent for
sure going to be there, and then Rory's like, oh,
so there's a fifty to fifty chance, Like it's clear
that it's he's like the deadbeat.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Well, I don't, I don't sure. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Part of me though, knows that in some way, I
do think he was sort of honoring and everybody can
yell at me, what Laura Lai wanted Laura la He
wanted to marry her. He was going to move in
with the Gilmours and work for the you know, either
Richard or his dad, and he wanted to be he
was going to marry Lorlai and she said, no.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
La, it's not Laureli's decision to make on how often
he can see his own daughter. He didn't do anything
so horrible, right, What what did he do that was
so horrible? He wasn't abusive to either one of them.
We would have gotten that door in the backstory thus far.
(21:02):
He was just a flake and he didn't he didn't
fight for his own daughter, He didn't fight for his
own family.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Characters a little bit more benefit of the doubt than
maybe others. And that's okay, I'm giving him a little
bit of So you're.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Saying as as a teenager and as a guy in
his twenties, and how many times he tried to come
back to Rory's life. Every single time Rory convinced him
that you're please stay away. The best, the best thing
you can do is stay away because you're so weak,
and he goes, yeah, you're right, I am, so I'm
not saying that find myself. Well, that's basically what you're saying.
(21:37):
He never stepped up and fought for his own daughter.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You you these kinds of people deserve zero respect in
my book.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Well, I also think it comes back.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Even if they're on television, it comes back, and they
have great haircuts, and they wear nice clothes and they
smile real nice.
Speaker 7 (21:57):
It kind of comes back, lying, Yeah, it kind of
comes back to right now, how like Christopher will do
anything Laurel I says, like we literally talked about this
in the episode we just recapped, and yeah, puppy dog
and so like it actually checks out because he's consistent,
(22:18):
Like he's consistently done whatever she is.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
That's a good point talk, you know, like stay away
from what she suggests, stay.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Away from me and Rory. Okay, I will come around
for her birthday. Okay, I will if you want to
pay for school, okay. You know, like he's just he's
just a yes man for whatever Laura I wants. Because
I think in the end, he wants Laura I, and
so he'll do whatever she wants.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
For him, Laurel I has always been more of a
priority than Rory.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Yes, yeah, I agree with that. I don't know if
we solved the mystery of christ.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It's not a mystery, it's it's it's the least complicated
thing in the world. He's just a deadbeat, That's all
there is to it.
Speaker 5 (23:16):
I respectfully disagree.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I don't find him to be what I would classify
as that, but I understand your passion for disliking him.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oy, I stand by your kids. Man, I don't care
who you are. I don't care.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
So Michelle are you?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Are you glad you joined us as.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
A little starstruck at first? When I sat, Scott thought
that I calmed down, But it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Tara, Suzanne and me rude.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
You guys are amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Okay, so wait, obviously, if we were gonna ask you, Christopher, Digger, Maxi,
Madie Rune, who else?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Who is your favorite? Who's your number two?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
I think she had a lot of chemistry with Digger
with dinner. Yeah okay, yeah, she really did. But I
think you know, he was just in her life for
a season. Ultimately she should be with Luke.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
He had a ch living room, he really did, and
beautiful breakfast spreads. But remember the brief relationship with the
coffee guy. I could have had him stick around, you know, Twilight.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, he's on Fire Country or Fire County or
whatever that show is now.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Yeah, Bello, Bella's dad. Yeah, with runs with him. Yeah,
I can't think of his name.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, he's fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Hold on, I'm looking it up.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Charlie.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Billy Burke, Billy Burke.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeh, Billy Burks a great, great musician.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Great, great, Well, Michelle, you get the final thoughts to
end this episode.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
What is your favorite thing about Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
It just gives me this really nostalgic feeling, small town charm.
I watch it every single day. It just is soothing
to me. It makes me. My husband laughs because I
laugh every time like it's a new new to me.
But my favorite thing about it is probably just all
(25:44):
the quick, quirky one liners. I just love all of them.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
And I'm amazing. Isn't it amazing about this show, Michelle?
About all these great one liners. It's it's it's the
funny show. It's just so funny. It is so many.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Yeah, every time I rewatch it, I see something I
haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Before, right right, right, exactly. It's brilliant. It's just brilliant
that way. It really is.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Well, even though we fought you, we're glad you're here.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Thank you, so excited to be on.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Thanks Michelle for coming on and appreciate sharing our thoughts.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
I'm sorry for stalking you, Amy, Please I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Look, apologies for being such wallflowers. We are very, very
very hesitant to share our opinions. As you can what
was on display? Come back anytime and you'll probably change
your phone number after this and wait.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Maybe from Michelle you could deliver the uh you know
that I am all in mine?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
What is that in line?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
What was out the episode with our line I am
all in? I bet you'd like to hear you say it.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
What do you mean the outro?
Speaker 5 (26:59):
Yeah, say I am all in?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You want me to say that to Michelle right now?
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:05):
I think she would like to hear it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
And remember Michelle always I am all in? Or should
I say it like Luke said?
Speaker 4 (27:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Give it to us like Luke? Sure?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
What am I trained? Seal here? Give me another fish
and I'll do anything. Michelle, thanks for coming on, much appreciated.
We'll just see everybody next time. Thank you and trepid Crewe, Susan.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
Everybody's left us, but but.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Uren, Everybody's gone all right. Thank you so much, Michelle,
You're great bear with us and sharing your thoughts on
this particular episode. And best fans on the planet, keep downloading,
keep sending us your cards and letters. Really appreciate you.
Love your best fans will planet our and remember we
(27:58):
and I am all In stay, save everyone, Hey everybody,
(28:29):
and don't forget. Follow us on Instagram at I Am
all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at iHeartRadio
dot com.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Sugarman
Danielle Romo
Scott Patterson
Tara Soudbaksh
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