May 11, 2023 • 35 mins
Now, that Norman Mailer knows Sookie is pregnant let's get the BTS.
Norman's son Stephen portrayed the journalist in this episode and he is joining Scott to share all the stories of his father and this Gilmore Girls episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am all in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I am all in with Scott Patterson, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in Podcasts. We
have a very very very special guest. Norman Mailer's son Steven,
played the interviewer A Norman Baylor for one episode in
two thousand and four, and that was Norman Mailer I'm Pregnant,
Season five, episode six. Even is a stage actor and
a screen actor. His credits include appearances in films like
(00:44):
Cry Baby, Baby, Mama and Another Woman, in the television
shows Gilmore Girls, Law and Order, Special Victims Unit, and
A League of their Own. And he is the son
to a very extraordinary uh and iconic literary figure in
the history of American letters, the one and only Norman Mailer.
(01:07):
And here is his son, Stephen Mayler. Hello, Stephen, thank
you for joining us. Do you remember, Stephen, how it
came to be that your father agreed to be on
this show?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, very well. A dear friend of mine, Jessica Queller,
was a writer on the show, and they just wrote
an episode. I believe that where you know, the character
of Norman Mailer was in the in the restaurant owned
by Lauren Graham and that most McCarthy was the was
the chef, I believe. And and so she called me
(01:44):
and said, hey, your dad is a character in an episode.
Do you you know, would he be interested in doing it?
So I asked him, and he said, well, I'll do
it if if, if they put you in it too.
And so that's how it all began. I'm an actor, and.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So it didn't take that much convention, not at all.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
It was great. He was he was all in.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Because I you know, he's known to have hated television.
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
You know, I guess he. I guess he was opposed
to what television could kind of do to the mind,
can kind of dull the mind, and you know, like
any I mean, television is very addictive. I think it
was more of the the not necessarily the content, but
the action of just losing oneself television. And I don't
know what you would think now in the age of streaming.
(02:35):
Oh yes, but he watched, you know, he like near
the end of his life, he loved to watch a
live poker and he watched love watching football. Baseball not
so much. After the Dodgers left Brooklyn, he denounced baseball. Yeah,
but I think that's bad. Little basketball and you know,
(02:57):
political debates things like that.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Right, right, So what do you remember about being on set?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I I had the best time. I you know, it
was wonderful to be there with Jess and I'm glad
that it worked out, you know, for her as well.
And and it was lovely. It was you know, it
was a wonderful week that I was with my dad
and and everyone was was terrific. We had I remember
(03:25):
having dinner with the producers I think Amy and Dan. Yeah,
and so that was really fun and and the cast
and crew was fantastic. And I remember Meliss McCarthy going
up to me and saying, see, are you an actor?
I was like yeah. He was like, oh god, because
you're making it look too easy. Anybody can do this right,
(03:45):
right right?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Well, so so what what what do you remember about
your interactions with the two of those monolists of acting,
Melissa and Lauren.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, they were delightful. They were just really charming and
sweet and supportive and very respectful of my father. And
I remember the director of the episode. You know, I
loved my dad's work, and so it was it, Yeah,
it was it was just a lovely experience all around.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You know, you're so inside baseball because you're his son,
you know, you know, and my my father was one
of those guys who, after World War Two on the
gi bill, uh you know, graduating from one of the ivys,
(04:36):
wanted to write the great American novel. And he was
inspired by The Naked and the Dead and those legions
of men and women that attempted to do this. And
how large a figure, how large and how iconic a
figure your dad was, even at that time when I
(04:57):
was a very small child, because I know the name
it in The Dead hit like you know, it hit
like a bomb. It was just it was just this
amazing experience. Was wasn't it the first uh uh, real
war novel, modern war novel that had that kind of
an impact.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I believe, So, I know, the Naked and It Didn't particularly
just really touched that whole generation. That's the other it's
kind of similar to The Naked and the Dead. I
think Terrence Malick made a film of it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So that was the thin Red Line made.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, And there are elements of it in Platoon as well.
I mean, I think Oliver State is very, very influenced
by the Naked and the Dead.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, I remember my dad talked about like.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But I mean, just such such a thrill to know
that Norman Mahler was coming to our show to be
in a scene was just it was it was hard
to wrap your mind around it, but it happened, and
there he was in the diner and it was just
it was an amazing day.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
That was the last scene of the episode, right where
were like, the guys are in here, they're not ordering anything.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Right exactly exactly. Lunch was canceled, So I'm canceling you
was that was a great monologue from from USA, taking
your lemons away. Oh look, I'm gonna read your book
for free. I'm not even gonna pay for it. Just
like so Norman, he had a lot of lines to remember.
Did he did he rehearse with you? Did he have
(06:34):
him down pretty pound or?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I think I think for the most part, he and
I were just kind of improvising. I played a somebody
who was interviewing him for a magazine piece or newspaper piece,
and we you know, I asked a lot of political questions,
so that part was improvised. He did have some lines,
my dad, you know, it was a bit of a
ham as an actor. You know, he made those three
(06:56):
experimental films at the end of the sixties, and I
love them because they're all these old buddies and they
were like my aunts and uncles, and they're like home
movies to me. But they're they're kind of ridiculous. And
and so, you know, I think I think it was
the improv was came out, you know, far more organically
(07:17):
than a lot of those lines. And and but as
far as I'm remembering, I you know, I don't, I
don't think it was a lot to memory. I think
it was, you know, a couple of a couple of
words here, a couple of words there. But I knew
he was he really wanted to do a great job
and he was trying, you know, giving it is all.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And how how old were you? How old were you
back then?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I was thirty was in two thousand and four, I
was thirty eight.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You were thirty eight years old? Okay? And he passed
just in two thousand and seven.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Right seven, Yeah, he was eighty one.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And so are fans recognizing you for this role? Gilmore?
Fans that they come up to you.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
My niece was a huge Gilmore Girls fan. She was,
you know, in high school at the time when it
came out. It was just like crazy to watch her
long friends and she and her my sister Danielle kind
of you know, thought of themselves as the Gilmore Girls,
well because daniel looked very young, and so they just
sort of you know, so the show really spoke to
them in that way, right.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Right, you know, I really want to get into what
a terrific debater he was, what a terrific personality he was,
what a towering intellect he was, and how he came
on the Dick Caviot Show. For people who don't know
who Dick, the Dick Cabot was, Dick Cabot had a
(08:46):
talk show, a very popular daytime talk show, and he
would have all of the leading figures of the day.
I mean, when did Dick Cabot show. It was a
seventies show. It wasn't eighties or a sixties and seventies, right, okay,
all right, so you know it was a different time
back then. It was it was politicians, it was it
(09:09):
was artists, it was individuals. When people really you know,
were imbued with individuality and a lot of a lot
of authors came on a lot of writers. And you know,
to watch that, uh, that tet tet between your father
and Gourvidale, because Gorvidale had been very critical of your father.
(09:30):
He was very critical of Naked and the Deady. He said,
it's just a John dos Passos rip off, and you know,
just trying to label your father as a male chauveness
pig because your father dared to make these arguments and
analyze the women's movement at the time and wrote a
(09:52):
very thoughtful piece about it. Because he was he was
also known, as you know, quite a bright light in
the field of journalism because he combined the sensibility and
the subjectivity and the artistry and the complexity of a
novelist with you know, the subjective discipline that is journalism.
(10:13):
So what do you remember about those battles with gord Vidal?
And I know they were friends, but then when Gore started,
you know, painting him with this sort of brush that
he was this sort of thick headed, egotistical male chauvinist
who was obsessed with murder and you know, violence and
(10:34):
this kind of thing. What do you remember about those times?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean I think it was unfortunate because they
were really good friends, and then they had a falling out.
And I think my dad's whole shtick and even on
that is that he's you know, he was really politically incorrect.
So he liked to say things to sort of get
you know, a conversation started, you know what I'm saying,
And so with Gore, I don't, you know, I can't
(10:59):
really speak to you know, how that relationship necessarily went
south in terms of you know, I think it was just,
you know, it was a couple of really powerful egos clashing.
Then they did have a physical altercation at a cocktail party. Yeah,
and that that was in the in the seventies, I believe,
because they didn't talk for a long time and they
(11:21):
saw each other and uh, I mean my history, I
don't want to my history might not be that accurate,
but I know, yeah, there was it was a little
something and uh, and then they didn't speak for years
after that. But then they ended up doing a reading
of Don Juan and Hell in a Cape cod in
a province sound or Truro, Massachusetts, and so they you know,
(11:43):
they made amends and so that was lovely that they
were able to come back together because they both had
great minds. And and even those shows are you know,
are really fast. I remember I saw the other night
my dad on the William F. Buckley Junior Show. That
was really intense, you know, And and uh, man, I
was just sort of he was a wild figure in
(12:04):
those days. And and uh, you know, and he was
drinking a lot, and you know, and I don't think
he was really doing drugs anymore and be a little pot,
but you know, he was. He was out there like
a lot of people were in the sixties. It was
a wild time. And he did have just such an
extraordinary political mind. Yes, I love to sit at the
(12:25):
dinner table listening to him. And he predicted everything that's happening,
you know, in America right now in terms of democracy.
And and my youngest brother John and a gentleman named j.
Michael Lennon, who's the authorized biographer of my dad and
came out with a book called A Double Life. Several
years ago. John and Mike put together a compilation of
(12:46):
a lot of my dad's political writings. Yeah, it's called
a Mysterious Country, the uh, the Grace and Fragility of
American Democracy. And this just came out, and Uh, I've
been reading and it's just very profound. And there's excerpt
from The Naked and the Dead when the General is
going on sort of is really talking about fascism with
(13:13):
with intrigue and and uh, you know, and positivity and
and making trying to make it sound very good. But
then there's this you know, intellectual lieutenant or captain who
you know, thinks he's full of sort of challenging him subtly,
but the General really loves that he's challenging him. That's
why he befriends him so they can have these discussions.
(13:34):
And there's a really cool like the sixth Tenets of
Democracy that that John and might kind of derived from
a lot of my dad's theories.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And real quick, which administrations did your father consider to
be totalitarian? Because he wrote about that?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Nixon?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah? I mean, I mean everyone, you know, I think Reagan? Right, Bush?
I mean, he loved Obama. He passed before Obama was elected,
but he was you know, saw the beginning of the
campaign and just just thought he was amazing. I'm sure
he would have been Sociality passed. Let's not see that happen.
(14:22):
A great moment in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Right the year before Obama was elected right, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Have an air on my phone. I want to read
because it's really u it's just great. So one, exercise
free speech and encourage civic involvement. Involvement to build left
right bridges and dialogue. Three, be wary of corporate power
and create equity between worker rewards and corporate corporate profits.
(14:52):
For men the wounds of slavery, and eliminate all forms
of discrimination. Five distrust flag waving patriots. Six never forget
the past. Just that little piece just in terms of
you know, as I said, what's happening now? I I
love that it's very succinct and beautiful and hopeful, and
(15:12):
I think full of love and understanding, and you know,
because he really cared, He really loved. He loved this country.
He loved you know, democracy, and and loved the art
that came out of this country, loved jazz.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
He ran for mayor, didn't he mayor of New York City?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
For mayor in nineteen sixty nine?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, how'd that go?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
But I don't remember. I think he debated William F. Buck.
I think he was the no. He was a Republican.
I'm pretty sure he.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Was at that time, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, he
did not like liberals.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah back in the day. Yeah yeah, But I don't know.
I don't think he became the mayor though Buckley I could,
but having a debate, right, and that talk show was
right before I think they ended up. They had that debate.
But I mean, he wanted to in New York City
into the fifty first state. That was his platform. Yeah,
(16:06):
really yeah. But there's some cips of him, you know,
you know, going around the city and and talking to
the crowds and yeah, and there was a joke. I
think he was with Warren Baby and Warren I remember
there was some talk back the name of Warren Baby
maybe running for president and in my and he called
(16:28):
my dad to to discuss some some policies or something.
I forget what they want to discuss, but he's like,
all right, but I'm going to make a deal with you.
And Baby said what He's like, I get I get
to be the VP. Baby said, all right, you'll be
the VP. And my or my dad wanted something else,
(16:49):
but I can't remember. You wanted to be member of
the cabinet. Mhm.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So Norman does Gilmore girls, you guys fly back. I
guess he lived in New York. I'm assuming he lived
in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Ye. At that time, he was living in Provincetown, Massachusetts,
robinst Okay, Yeah, he and my stepmother, Norris, moved there
after my brother John went to college, right, and that
nineteen ninety six, twenty years of his life. So it
was a big deal. And is you know, he didn't
move very well. You know, I met him in Horton, Boston,
(17:29):
and and you know, he had to have a wheelchair
through the thing, so he was really you know, he
was doing a great favorite for me. I had just
split from my ex wife and we had two small boys,
five and one. So I just moved into my own
apartment in Brooklyn and money was a little tight. So
this is just just help to get this this gig,
and and so that was part of it. It was
(17:52):
lovely just to spend time with him and he you know,
my stepmother was his six wife and he had nine children,
so so he really knew how to commiserate with me.
It was a really cool journey and and uh yeah,
and we and I loved just helping him and being
(18:13):
a part of that. And I remember the loveliest thing
that happened there though, was I think there was a
break in shooting and he was sitting outside and a
lot of the young writers gathered around him, and they
had a little sort of forum, you know, and and
and he just loved loved holding court, and he just
loved loved the art of writing, and and so and
(18:35):
Jessica had told her, I never I didn't see this.
I don't know where I was, but but jess said
that happened, and and and I and that he, you know,
was just so giving and and and and open, and
that the writers have just loved it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
How did he So he goes to Harvard, He graduates
with a with a degree in aeronautical engineeering. Yes, if
I am not mistaken, Yeah, okay, So one thing leads
to another. How does that? Where's that bridge from aeronautical
(19:14):
engineering to journalism.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Well, he had written a story when he was eight
years old and the teacher called my grandmother in and said,
you obviously wrote this for him. This is this is
a big no no. And my my grandmother was incensed, like,
I would never do something thing. You know, my boy
is a genius. And so I think that was the
(19:38):
first little like, oh you know, he's got some talent here.
And then he won a major short story writing contest
when he was at Harvard and was on the road
to the lampoon.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh he did, he was, he was one of he was.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Okay, yeah, so I think the writing was always there,
and then.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
For for for people listening in if you don't know
what the Harvard Lampoon is or what I'm assuming it's
still still standing. A lot of the writers from the
Harvard Lampoon end up in Hollywood writing films and major
TV shows, And there's a real lineage from from Harvard
(20:16):
to to Hollywood. So yeah, so so was he ever
tempted to follow in the footsteps of so many before
him to come to Hollywood and start writing for film
and TV.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
When The Naked and the Dead came out, you know,
he became instantly famous. And you know, at that time,
when you had the number one best seller, it was
a very big deal, and I'm sure it's a big
deal now. But just in terms of you know, reading,
it was before television, so reading was I think more
more of the culture of the day of that day, right.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Right, The real the real rock stars of the day
were writers. The intellect the intellectuals were bigger than actors.
They were bigger than musicians. They were the thing.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, well, jazz musicians are pretty like you know, the
Miles Davis and the Charlie Parkers like those like that scene.
The writers and you know, jazz musicians. That was it.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, it wasn't politicians, It wasn't musicians. It wasn't actors.
I mean, even though it was, but it was really
like the big writers that everybody. Everybody read them, everybody
discussed them.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, and Hemingway was my dad's hero, Steinbeck, you know,
all In Fitzgerald. And so he came out to Hollywood
because they you know, the film got bought, I mean,
the book got bought to be a film. And he
lived out here for about a year and was sort
of in that scening, but he didn't he really didn't
like it to me. To him, it felt like a
(21:45):
lazy summer day, you know, every day, and he just
couldn't really get any writing done. So it was a
brief year.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
And then since you know, I mean, I think he
always when he was at college, he got cast in
Awakened sing Hm.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So he got that Barney and he learned his lines
and then I think, uh, the what did the war race?
Somedthing happened where the completed did not go on, so
he feels like that had happened. He might have been
an actor, but he always yeah, he always loved film
and and and made some like I remember some films
(22:24):
from like the early fifties and Brooklyn Heights, and then
ended up making these you know, sort of three kind
of seminal wild improvisational films that you know are part
of the Criterion collection. You know, again, a lot of people,
I think for friends and family, you know, it's, uh,
(22:46):
we we dig them, but you know, they can be
a lot leave a lot to be desired for others.
And then he ended up directing Tough Guys Don't Dance,
one of his novels, and we always you know, yeah,
so I think, you know, he I think he loved
great filmmaking, but was very impatient, if like, in terms
of like watching television with him, that was a nightmare
(23:07):
because he literally watched something for a minute and again
then move on. It was just like constant you know,
channel surfing, right right.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Right, So.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Tell us a little bit about the aftermath of of
when the show actually aired, was Norman approached by people,
Oh my god, you were on Gilmore Girls and they
didn't know him. They didn't really know him as Norman
mail They didn't know who Norman Mailer was or what
(23:40):
he'd done in his career, but they knew him from
Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Oh yeah. I think a lot of people instead of
knowing Hi from gil Murgirl Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
can't you know, it's that that part of this I
don't remember as well. Scott. I'm so sorry. I think
he did get a lot of recognition from doing that show.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, it's amazing how many people recognize, like, you know,
they'll recognize extras from the show.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
They pour over every detail of every episode. It's a
very dedicated as you well know, they're very dedicated. So
what are you working on now? What are you doing
now with your career?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
I made a film. I'm a writer as well. I
had to get into a seventeen year men's group based
on the work of Carl Jung about identifying the father's
dark shadow, processing that and connecting to their golden shadow
their creativity. So I was always part to be a writer,
but I just couldn't get past the shadow part of it, right,
(24:43):
and seventeen years agree by finally after several years, started writing,
and I wrote a few plays and a couple of
screenplays and a pilot for a sketch comedy show. And
I ended up just producing and directing the one of
the screenplays I did. It's called Flow Group. It's really wild.
It's sort of like mel Brooks on acid. It's out there.
(25:03):
And and again, I love very you know, some of
my like a lot of my you know, family and friends.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That's a lot of acid. I mean, no book.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
That literally like Young Frankenstein and Blazing Saddle, so you know,
and I went to when I was eight and nine.
I know, I know Young Frankenstein I think was my hero. Yeah, yeah,
so I really so I did that. And it's been
a really long process, you know. I got an LLC
in twenty sixteen and then shot it in twenty seventeen
(25:37):
that I've really been editing it, and I'm even editing
it right now. I'm just doing the final sort of
credit sequence and and so I'm gonna have some screenings
of that and and it was just a little wonderful process.
I just love it. And yes, that's that's that's what
I'm doing right now.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh, terrific. Yeah, it's interesting. I produced and financed a
film in twenty thirteen and I'm still editing it as Well'
still putting finishing touches on it. May I may never
release it, but I'm certainly going to get it right
or else I'll die trying.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I love editing. It's so much fun, and you.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Know what I do too. It's the best part of
it for me.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, I mean that's really where the film is made. Yes,
it is. And it really helps to have a great editor.
We sort of like works with you and it's really
positive and supportive.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I've had two and they were both well, yeah, and
they were both wonderful, and we are really shaping this film. Yeah,
you know, it's too bad we don't have a cooperative
director or lead actress. But you know, that's why it's
taking so long. But you know, people's feelings get hurt
and their vision get they feel their vision get crushed,
(26:50):
and it's like, you know, yeah, it's like you know,
people are either going to watch your film and then
they're going to go watch paint dry, and they're going
to have a better time watching the paint try, so
we've got to save this film somehow. Anyway, what else
can you tell us about the experience that we haven't
gone through. Did he enjoy it? Did he really enjoy it?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah? He did, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
And he had a great friend out here, a guy
named Mickey Knox, and another friend, Larry Schiller, and we
all went out to dinner. I think Larry sort of,
you know, told him how to do the deal, because
Larry's a producer and writer and photographer and took those
famous photographs of Marilynroe in the pool years ago. It
was a real Hollywood you know.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Tell us about this. What was his relationship with Marilyn Monroe,
because I know he wrote a book about her.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, he just he never met her. He sat behind
her once at a like a movie premiere or a
play and I think she was married to Arthur Miller
at the time, and he almost tapped her on the shoulder,
but it didn't happen. That it happened that you know,
who knows, I could be Marilyn Monroe son. But I
(28:07):
think he just really he really loved He would just
you know, was really infatuated with her. And as a kid,
we got to you know. I remember just he would
get all the copies of the film. We'd watched them
in the living room, and and I didn't realize that
he's like what an extraordinary you know actress. She she is,
you know what I mean, Like he just played this
(28:29):
ditsy the doun block.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
She was brilliant as.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
The greatest ever And so I think he really he
really celebrates that in the book. And there's a lot
of beautiful photos and and Larry actually made deals with
Tash in this great German Yeah, and so Maryland came
out Maryland and and the fight before that, and there's
(28:55):
beautiful photos and yeah, Larry, Larry was great because Larry
actually brought the Gary Gilmour. He brought the rights to
that and came to my father, and I believe that's
how they first met. I want you to well, actually, no,
I guess he must have known him from Maryland.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Because he won the pulitzer for the executioner.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
So yeah, so Larry brought that to my father and
that that and an American dream also on the pulitzer,
you know, or I think considered his you.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Know, and not Naked in the dead was the pulitzer
around back then he.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Didn't n The Dead win the Pulitzer Everyone Book of
the Year award, Like I think it won a lot
of awards, right right, My dad years and sort of
he would read through and he's like, oh my god,
I was such a young writer. I made so many mistakes.
Talking about editing the film. Sure he might have been like,
be written some of it. I could see him doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So we're gonna play a little game called rapid Fire.
You ready, You're ready? Okay, here we go. How do
you like your coffee?
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I drink a French Press in the morning. I don't
know what the basic side, one of the traditional size,
and I do that every morning, so it's probably about
two very large cups.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Okay, uh, it's called rapid fire. Rapid fire.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It's a tangent.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
You team Logan, Team Jess from.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
You're not going to get a quick answer.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
From all right, So we'll rename the we'll rename this.
Are you Team Logan, Team Jess or Team Dean? If
you have any idea what that means?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I don't. Oh, is that is that one of the girls?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yes? Yes, okay, so I guess.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
That would be who is the Melissa McCarthy character.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Uh? So your team Suki? Okay, your team Suki. So
you think Suki is better suited for Rory as an
intimate Okay? Great? Uh you're on record now, there's no
taking it back. I understand we all do. Who is
your favorite Gilmour Girls couple, Luke and Laurele I or
(31:21):
Richard and Emily?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Were you Luke?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I was?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah, Luke and Laurel I right?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I think I still am Luke the last time I checked.
But I shouldn't refer to as in the past tense,
but maybe that was the case. What would you order
at Luke's diner?
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh, my gosh, rapid Fire, rapid.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Fire, Jackson or Taylor for the town selectmen?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Oh, I gotta refresh.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You would you would want? You would want Taylor? Just
say Taylor, Taylor, Taylor? Good good answer, good answer. Would
you rather listen to hep Alien or the Troubadour's cover
songs of Troubadour's covers? Good answer? Your nallon Harvard or Yale?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Harvard?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Of course? Uh? What's Rory's bigger mistake? Crashing the car
her boyfriend built for her or sleeping with her ex
who is married? And by the way, they happen to
be the same person. So what's the bigger mistake? The
car crash or the uh the uh? Okay, the sleeping
(32:35):
with the x Okay, yes you're and you're correct about that. Uh?
Who from Gilmour? Would you not want to be stuck
on a desert island?
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Oh? I think all the characters were wonderful. Wasn't the
father of the lore Lies dad? Wasn't he a little Uh?
Wasn't he a little cantankerous?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yea a little bit?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Yeah? Maybe him?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
So maybe Shell, the snooty French concierge at the dragonfly In.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I guess so, yes, Michelle, I don't know. It just
came to me.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I'm about to see him, so I wanted to get
that and so I have something over. I love this game.
This is awesome. Uh something in your life? You are
all in.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
On being a father and a husband.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
There you go, all right, Steven, it was a pleasure,
and uh, we'd love to have you back on. I
got a million more things I want to talk with
you about. But anyway, best of luck to you and
keep on keeping on, brother. Thank you, thank you, thank
you for apologies for oh no worries, but thank you,
(33:50):
thank you for sharing uh these these very warm and
very intimate stories your father.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Oh, it's my pleasure and he'd be thrilled.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Thank you so much and enjoy your day, right, take care,
(34:33):
hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at
I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore
at iHeartRadio dot com. Oh you're Gilmore friends. If you're
looking for the best cup of coffee in the world,
go to my website from my company Scottip dot com
s C O T T y P dot com, Scottip
dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee
I am all in.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I am all in with Scott Patterson, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in Podcasts. We
have a very very very special guest. Norman Mailer's son Steven,
played the interviewer A Norman Baylor for one episode in
two thousand and four, and that was Norman Mailer I'm Pregnant,
Season five, episode six. Even is a stage actor and
a screen actor. His credits include appearances in films like
(00:44):
Cry Baby, Baby, Mama and Another Woman, in the television
shows Gilmore Girls, Law and Order, Special Victims Unit, and
A League of their Own. And he is the son
to a very extraordinary uh and iconic literary figure in
the history of American letters, the one and only Norman Mailer.
(01:07):
And here is his son, Stephen Mayler. Hello, Stephen, thank
you for joining us. Do you remember, Stephen, how it
came to be that your father agreed to be on
this show?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, very well. A dear friend of mine, Jessica Queller,
was a writer on the show, and they just wrote
an episode. I believe that where you know, the character
of Norman Mailer was in the in the restaurant owned
by Lauren Graham and that most McCarthy was the was
the chef, I believe. And and so she called me
(01:44):
and said, hey, your dad is a character in an episode.
Do you you know, would he be interested in doing it?
So I asked him, and he said, well, I'll do
it if if, if they put you in it too.
And so that's how it all began. I'm an actor, and.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So it didn't take that much convention, not at all.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
It was great. He was he was all in.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Because I you know, he's known to have hated television.
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
You know, I guess he. I guess he was opposed
to what television could kind of do to the mind,
can kind of dull the mind, and you know, like
any I mean, television is very addictive. I think it
was more of the the not necessarily the content, but
the action of just losing oneself television. And I don't
know what you would think now in the age of streaming.
(02:35):
Oh yes, but he watched, you know, he like near
the end of his life, he loved to watch a
live poker and he watched love watching football. Baseball not
so much. After the Dodgers left Brooklyn, he denounced baseball. Yeah,
but I think that's bad. Little basketball and you know,
(02:57):
political debates things like that.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Right, right, So what do you remember about being on set?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I I had the best time. I you know, it
was wonderful to be there with Jess and I'm glad
that it worked out, you know, for her as well.
And and it was lovely. It was you know, it
was a wonderful week that I was with my dad
and and everyone was was terrific. We had I remember
(03:25):
having dinner with the producers I think Amy and Dan. Yeah,
and so that was really fun and and the cast
and crew was fantastic. And I remember Meliss McCarthy going
up to me and saying, see, are you an actor?
I was like yeah. He was like, oh god, because
you're making it look too easy. Anybody can do this right,
(03:45):
right right?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Well, so so what what what do you remember about
your interactions with the two of those monolists of acting,
Melissa and Lauren.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, they were delightful. They were just really charming and
sweet and supportive and very respectful of my father. And
I remember the director of the episode. You know, I
loved my dad's work, and so it was it, Yeah,
it was it was just a lovely experience all around.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
You know, you're so inside baseball because you're his son,
you know, you know, and my my father was one
of those guys who, after World War Two on the
gi bill, uh you know, graduating from one of the ivys,
(04:36):
wanted to write the great American novel. And he was
inspired by The Naked and the Dead and those legions
of men and women that attempted to do this. And
how large a figure, how large and how iconic a
figure your dad was, even at that time when I
(04:57):
was a very small child, because I know the name
it in The Dead hit like you know, it hit
like a bomb. It was just it was just this
amazing experience. Was wasn't it the first uh uh, real
war novel, modern war novel that had that kind of
an impact.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I believe, So, I know, the Naked and It Didn't particularly
just really touched that whole generation. That's the other it's
kind of similar to The Naked and the Dead. I
think Terrence Malick made a film of it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So that was the thin Red Line made.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, And there are elements of it in Platoon as well.
I mean, I think Oliver State is very, very influenced
by the Naked and the Dead.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, I remember my dad talked about like.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
But I mean, just such such a thrill to know
that Norman Mahler was coming to our show to be
in a scene was just it was it was hard
to wrap your mind around it, but it happened, and
there he was in the diner and it was just
it was an amazing day.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
That was the last scene of the episode, right where
were like, the guys are in here, they're not ordering anything.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Right exactly exactly. Lunch was canceled, So I'm canceling you
was that was a great monologue from from USA, taking
your lemons away. Oh look, I'm gonna read your book
for free. I'm not even gonna pay for it. Just
like so Norman, he had a lot of lines to remember.
Did he did he rehearse with you? Did he have
(06:34):
him down pretty pound or?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I think I think for the most part, he and
I were just kind of improvising. I played a somebody
who was interviewing him for a magazine piece or newspaper piece,
and we you know, I asked a lot of political questions,
so that part was improvised. He did have some lines,
my dad, you know, it was a bit of a
ham as an actor. You know, he made those three
(06:56):
experimental films at the end of the sixties, and I
love them because they're all these old buddies and they
were like my aunts and uncles, and they're like home
movies to me. But they're they're kind of ridiculous. And
and so, you know, I think I think it was
the improv was came out, you know, far more organically
(07:17):
than a lot of those lines. And and but as
far as I'm remembering, I you know, I don't, I
don't think it was a lot to memory. I think
it was, you know, a couple of a couple of
words here, a couple of words there. But I knew
he was he really wanted to do a great job
and he was trying, you know, giving it is all.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And how how old were you? How old were you
back then?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
I was thirty was in two thousand and four, I
was thirty eight.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You were thirty eight years old? Okay? And he passed
just in two thousand and seven.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Right seven, Yeah, he was eighty one.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And so are fans recognizing you for this role? Gilmore?
Fans that they come up to you.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
My niece was a huge Gilmore Girls fan. She was,
you know, in high school at the time when it
came out. It was just like crazy to watch her
long friends and she and her my sister Danielle kind
of you know, thought of themselves as the Gilmore Girls,
well because daniel looked very young, and so they just
sort of you know, so the show really spoke to
them in that way, right.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Right, you know, I really want to get into what
a terrific debater he was, what a terrific personality he was,
what a towering intellect he was, and how he came
on the Dick Caviot Show. For people who don't know
who Dick, the Dick Cabot was, Dick Cabot had a
(08:46):
talk show, a very popular daytime talk show, and he
would have all of the leading figures of the day.
I mean, when did Dick Cabot show. It was a
seventies show. It wasn't eighties or a sixties and seventies, right, okay,
all right, so you know it was a different time
back then. It was it was politicians, it was it
(09:09):
was artists, it was individuals. When people really you know,
were imbued with individuality and a lot of a lot
of authors came on a lot of writers. And you know,
to watch that, uh, that tet tet between your father
and Gourvidale, because Gorvidale had been very critical of your father.
(09:30):
He was very critical of Naked and the Deady. He said,
it's just a John dos Passos rip off, and you know,
just trying to label your father as a male chauveness
pig because your father dared to make these arguments and
analyze the women's movement at the time and wrote a
(09:52):
very thoughtful piece about it. Because he was he was
also known, as you know, quite a bright light in
the field of journalism because he combined the sensibility and
the subjectivity and the artistry and the complexity of a
novelist with you know, the subjective discipline that is journalism.
(10:13):
So what do you remember about those battles with gord Vidal?
And I know they were friends, but then when Gore started,
you know, painting him with this sort of brush that
he was this sort of thick headed, egotistical male chauvinist
who was obsessed with murder and you know, violence and
(10:34):
this kind of thing. What do you remember about those times?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I mean I think it was unfortunate because they
were really good friends, and then they had a falling out.
And I think my dad's whole shtick and even on
that is that he's you know, he was really politically incorrect.
So he liked to say things to sort of get
you know, a conversation started, you know what I'm saying,
And so with Gore, I don't, you know, I can't
(10:59):
really speak to you know, how that relationship necessarily went
south in terms of you know, I think it was just,
you know, it was a couple of really powerful egos clashing.
Then they did have a physical altercation at a cocktail party. Yeah,
and that that was in the in the seventies, I believe,
because they didn't talk for a long time and they
(11:21):
saw each other and uh, I mean my history, I
don't want to my history might not be that accurate,
but I know, yeah, there was it was a little
something and uh, and then they didn't speak for years
after that. But then they ended up doing a reading
of Don Juan and Hell in a Cape cod in
a province sound or Truro, Massachusetts, and so they you know,
(11:43):
they made amends and so that was lovely that they
were able to come back together because they both had
great minds. And and even those shows are you know,
are really fast. I remember I saw the other night
my dad on the William F. Buckley Junior Show. That
was really intense, you know, And and uh, man, I
was just sort of he was a wild figure in
(12:04):
those days. And and uh, you know, and he was
drinking a lot, and you know, and I don't think
he was really doing drugs anymore and be a little pot,
but you know, he was. He was out there like
a lot of people were in the sixties. It was
a wild time. And he did have just such an
extraordinary political mind. Yes, I love to sit at the
(12:25):
dinner table listening to him. And he predicted everything that's happening,
you know, in America right now in terms of democracy.
And and my youngest brother John and a gentleman named j.
Michael Lennon, who's the authorized biographer of my dad and
came out with a book called A Double Life. Several
years ago. John and Mike put together a compilation of
(12:46):
a lot of my dad's political writings. Yeah, it's called
a Mysterious Country, the uh, the Grace and Fragility of
American Democracy. And this just came out, and Uh, I've
been reading and it's just very profound. And there's excerpt
from The Naked and the Dead when the General is
going on sort of is really talking about fascism with
(13:13):
with intrigue and and uh, you know, and positivity and
and making trying to make it sound very good. But
then there's this you know, intellectual lieutenant or captain who
you know, thinks he's full of sort of challenging him subtly,
but the General really loves that he's challenging him. That's
why he befriends him so they can have these discussions.
(13:34):
And there's a really cool like the sixth Tenets of
Democracy that that John and might kind of derived from
a lot of my dad's theories.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And real quick, which administrations did your father consider to
be totalitarian? Because he wrote about that?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Nixon?
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah? I mean, I mean everyone, you know, I think Reagan? Right, Bush?
I mean, he loved Obama. He passed before Obama was elected,
but he was you know, saw the beginning of the
campaign and just just thought he was amazing. I'm sure
he would have been Sociality passed. Let's not see that happen.
(14:22):
A great moment in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Right the year before Obama was elected right, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Have an air on my phone. I want to read
because it's really u it's just great. So one, exercise
free speech and encourage civic involvement. Involvement to build left
right bridges and dialogue. Three, be wary of corporate power
and create equity between worker rewards and corporate corporate profits.
(14:52):
For men the wounds of slavery, and eliminate all forms
of discrimination. Five distrust flag waving patriots. Six never forget
the past. Just that little piece just in terms of
you know, as I said, what's happening now? I I
love that it's very succinct and beautiful and hopeful, and
(15:12):
I think full of love and understanding, and you know,
because he really cared, He really loved. He loved this country.
He loved you know, democracy, and and loved the art
that came out of this country, loved jazz.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
He ran for mayor, didn't he mayor of New York City?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
For mayor in nineteen sixty nine?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, how'd that go?
Speaker 3 (15:34):
But I don't remember. I think he debated William F. Buck.
I think he was the no. He was a Republican.
I'm pretty sure he.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Was at that time, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, he
did not like liberals.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah back in the day. Yeah yeah, But I don't know.
I don't think he became the mayor though Buckley I could,
but having a debate, right, and that talk show was
right before I think they ended up. They had that debate.
But I mean, he wanted to in New York City
into the fifty first state. That was his platform. Yeah,
(16:06):
really yeah. But there's some cips of him, you know,
you know, going around the city and and talking to
the crowds and yeah, and there was a joke. I
think he was with Warren Baby and Warren I remember
there was some talk back the name of Warren Baby
maybe running for president and in my and he called
(16:28):
my dad to to discuss some some policies or something.
I forget what they want to discuss, but he's like,
all right, but I'm going to make a deal with you.
And Baby said what He's like, I get I get
to be the VP. Baby said, all right, you'll be
the VP. And my or my dad wanted something else,
(16:49):
but I can't remember. You wanted to be member of
the cabinet. Mhm.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
So Norman does Gilmore girls, you guys fly back. I
guess he lived in New York. I'm assuming he lived
in Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Ye. At that time, he was living in Provincetown, Massachusetts,
robinst Okay, Yeah, he and my stepmother, Norris, moved there
after my brother John went to college, right, and that
nineteen ninety six, twenty years of his life. So it
was a big deal. And is you know, he didn't
move very well. You know, I met him in Horton, Boston,
(17:29):
and and you know, he had to have a wheelchair
through the thing, so he was really you know, he
was doing a great favorite for me. I had just
split from my ex wife and we had two small boys,
five and one. So I just moved into my own
apartment in Brooklyn and money was a little tight. So
this is just just help to get this this gig,
and and so that was part of it. It was
(17:52):
lovely just to spend time with him and he you know,
my stepmother was his six wife and he had nine children,
so so he really knew how to commiserate with me.
It was a really cool journey and and uh yeah,
and we and I loved just helping him and being
(18:13):
a part of that. And I remember the loveliest thing
that happened there though, was I think there was a
break in shooting and he was sitting outside and a
lot of the young writers gathered around him, and they
had a little sort of forum, you know, and and
and he just loved loved holding court, and he just
loved loved the art of writing, and and so and
(18:35):
Jessica had told her, I never I didn't see this.
I don't know where I was, but but jess said
that happened, and and and I and that he, you know,
was just so giving and and and and open, and
that the writers have just loved it.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
How did he So he goes to Harvard, He graduates
with a with a degree in aeronautical engineeering. Yes, if
I am not mistaken, Yeah, okay, So one thing leads
to another. How does that? Where's that bridge from aeronautical
(19:14):
engineering to journalism.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Well, he had written a story when he was eight
years old and the teacher called my grandmother in and said,
you obviously wrote this for him. This is this is
a big no no. And my my grandmother was incensed, like,
I would never do something thing. You know, my boy
is a genius. And so I think that was the
(19:38):
first little like, oh you know, he's got some talent here.
And then he won a major short story writing contest
when he was at Harvard and was on the road
to the lampoon.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh he did, he was, he was one of he was.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Okay, yeah, so I think the writing was always there,
and then.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
For for for people listening in if you don't know
what the Harvard Lampoon is or what I'm assuming it's
still still standing. A lot of the writers from the
Harvard Lampoon end up in Hollywood writing films and major
TV shows, And there's a real lineage from from Harvard
(20:16):
to to Hollywood. So yeah, so so was he ever
tempted to follow in the footsteps of so many before
him to come to Hollywood and start writing for film
and TV.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
When The Naked and the Dead came out, you know,
he became instantly famous. And you know, at that time,
when you had the number one best seller, it was
a very big deal, and I'm sure it's a big
deal now. But just in terms of you know, reading,
it was before television, so reading was I think more
more of the culture of the day of that day, right.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Right, The real the real rock stars of the day
were writers. The intellect the intellectuals were bigger than actors.
They were bigger than musicians. They were the thing.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, well, jazz musicians are pretty like you know, the
Miles Davis and the Charlie Parkers like those like that scene.
The writers and you know, jazz musicians. That was it.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, it wasn't politicians, It wasn't musicians. It wasn't actors.
I mean, even though it was, but it was really
like the big writers that everybody. Everybody read them, everybody
discussed them.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah, and Hemingway was my dad's hero, Steinbeck, you know,
all In Fitzgerald. And so he came out to Hollywood
because they you know, the film got bought, I mean,
the book got bought to be a film. And he
lived out here for about a year and was sort
of in that scening, but he didn't he really didn't
like it to me. To him, it felt like a
(21:45):
lazy summer day, you know, every day, and he just
couldn't really get any writing done. So it was a
brief year.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
And then since you know, I mean, I think he
always when he was at college, he got cast in
Awakened sing Hm.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
So he got that Barney and he learned his lines
and then I think, uh, the what did the war race?
Somedthing happened where the completed did not go on, so
he feels like that had happened. He might have been
an actor, but he always yeah, he always loved film
and and and made some like I remember some films
(22:24):
from like the early fifties and Brooklyn Heights, and then
ended up making these you know, sort of three kind
of seminal wild improvisational films that you know are part
of the Criterion collection. You know, again, a lot of people,
I think for friends and family, you know, it's, uh,
(22:46):
we we dig them, but you know, they can be
a lot leave a lot to be desired for others.
And then he ended up directing Tough Guys Don't Dance,
one of his novels, and we always you know, yeah,
so I think, you know, he I think he loved
great filmmaking, but was very impatient, if like, in terms
of like watching television with him, that was a nightmare
(23:07):
because he literally watched something for a minute and again
then move on. It was just like constant you know,
channel surfing, right right.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Right, So.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Tell us a little bit about the aftermath of of
when the show actually aired, was Norman approached by people,
Oh my god, you were on Gilmore Girls and they
didn't know him. They didn't really know him as Norman
mail They didn't know who Norman Mailer was or what
(23:40):
he'd done in his career, but they knew him from
Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Oh yeah. I think a lot of people instead of
knowing Hi from gil Murgirl Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
can't you know, it's that that part of this I
don't remember as well. Scott. I'm so sorry. I think
he did get a lot of recognition from doing that show.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, it's amazing how many people recognize, like, you know,
they'll recognize extras from the show.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
They pour over every detail of every episode. It's a
very dedicated as you well know, they're very dedicated. So
what are you working on now? What are you doing
now with your career?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
I made a film. I'm a writer as well. I
had to get into a seventeen year men's group based
on the work of Carl Jung about identifying the father's
dark shadow, processing that and connecting to their golden shadow
their creativity. So I was always part to be a writer,
but I just couldn't get past the shadow part of it, right,
(24:43):
and seventeen years agree by finally after several years, started writing,
and I wrote a few plays and a couple of
screenplays and a pilot for a sketch comedy show. And
I ended up just producing and directing the one of
the screenplays I did. It's called Flow Group. It's really wild.
It's sort of like mel Brooks on acid. It's out there.
(25:03):
And and again, I love very you know, some of
my like a lot of my you know, family and friends.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That's a lot of acid. I mean, no book.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
That literally like Young Frankenstein and Blazing Saddle, so you know,
and I went to when I was eight and nine.
I know, I know Young Frankenstein I think was my hero. Yeah, yeah,
so I really so I did that. And it's been
a really long process, you know. I got an LLC
in twenty sixteen and then shot it in twenty seventeen
(25:37):
that I've really been editing it, and I'm even editing
it right now. I'm just doing the final sort of
credit sequence and and so I'm gonna have some screenings
of that and and it was just a little wonderful process.
I just love it. And yes, that's that's that's what
I'm doing right now.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh, terrific. Yeah, it's interesting. I produced and financed a
film in twenty thirteen and I'm still editing it as Well'
still putting finishing touches on it. May I may never
release it, but I'm certainly going to get it right
or else I'll die trying.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
I love editing. It's so much fun, and you.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Know what I do too. It's the best part of
it for me.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, I mean that's really where the film is made. Yes,
it is. And it really helps to have a great editor.
We sort of like works with you and it's really
positive and supportive.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I've had two and they were both well, yeah, and
they were both wonderful, and we are really shaping this film. Yeah,
you know, it's too bad we don't have a cooperative
director or lead actress. But you know, that's why it's
taking so long. But you know, people's feelings get hurt
and their vision get they feel their vision get crushed,
(26:50):
and it's like, you know, yeah, it's like you know,
people are either going to watch your film and then
they're going to go watch paint dry, and they're going
to have a better time watching the paint try, so
we've got to save this film somehow. Anyway, what else
can you tell us about the experience that we haven't
gone through. Did he enjoy it? Did he really enjoy it?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah? He did, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
And he had a great friend out here, a guy
named Mickey Knox, and another friend, Larry Schiller, and we
all went out to dinner. I think Larry sort of,
you know, told him how to do the deal, because
Larry's a producer and writer and photographer and took those
famous photographs of Marilynroe in the pool years ago. It
was a real Hollywood you know.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Tell us about this. What was his relationship with Marilyn Monroe,
because I know he wrote a book about her.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, he just he never met her. He sat behind
her once at a like a movie premiere or a
play and I think she was married to Arthur Miller
at the time, and he almost tapped her on the shoulder,
but it didn't happen. That it happened that you know,
who knows, I could be Marilyn Monroe son. But I
(28:07):
think he just really he really loved He would just
you know, was really infatuated with her. And as a kid,
we got to you know. I remember just he would
get all the copies of the film. We'd watched them
in the living room, and and I didn't realize that
he's like what an extraordinary you know actress. She she is,
you know what I mean, Like he just played this
(28:29):
ditsy the doun block.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
She was brilliant as.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
The greatest ever And so I think he really he
really celebrates that in the book. And there's a lot
of beautiful photos and and Larry actually made deals with
Tash in this great German Yeah, and so Maryland came
out Maryland and and the fight before that, and there's
(28:55):
beautiful photos and yeah, Larry, Larry was great because Larry
actually brought the Gary Gilmour. He brought the rights to
that and came to my father, and I believe that's
how they first met. I want you to well, actually, no,
I guess he must have known him from Maryland.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Because he won the pulitzer for the executioner.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
So yeah, so Larry brought that to my father and
that that and an American dream also on the pulitzer,
you know, or I think considered his you.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Know, and not Naked in the dead was the pulitzer
around back then he.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Didn't n The Dead win the Pulitzer Everyone Book of
the Year award, Like I think it won a lot
of awards, right right, My dad years and sort of
he would read through and he's like, oh my god,
I was such a young writer. I made so many mistakes.
Talking about editing the film. Sure he might have been like,
be written some of it. I could see him doing that.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So we're gonna play a little game called rapid Fire.
You ready, You're ready? Okay, here we go. How do
you like your coffee?
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I drink a French Press in the morning. I don't
know what the basic side, one of the traditional size,
and I do that every morning, so it's probably about
two very large cups.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Okay, uh, it's called rapid fire. Rapid fire.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
It's a tangent.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
You team Logan, Team Jess from.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
You're not going to get a quick answer.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
From all right, So we'll rename the we'll rename this.
Are you Team Logan, Team Jess or Team Dean? If
you have any idea what that means?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I don't. Oh, is that is that one of the girls?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yes? Yes, okay, so I guess.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
That would be who is the Melissa McCarthy character.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Uh? So your team Suki? Okay, your team Suki. So
you think Suki is better suited for Rory as an
intimate Okay? Great? Uh you're on record now, there's no
taking it back. I understand we all do. Who is
your favorite Gilmour Girls couple, Luke and Laurele I or
(31:21):
Richard and Emily?
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Were you Luke?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I was?
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah, Luke and Laurel I right?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I think I still am Luke the last time I checked.
But I shouldn't refer to as in the past tense,
but maybe that was the case. What would you order
at Luke's diner?
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh, my gosh, rapid Fire, rapid.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Fire, Jackson or Taylor for the town selectmen?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Oh, I gotta refresh.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
You would you would want? You would want Taylor? Just
say Taylor, Taylor, Taylor? Good good answer, good answer. Would
you rather listen to hep Alien or the Troubadour's cover
songs of Troubadour's covers? Good answer? Your nallon Harvard or Yale?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Harvard?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Of course? Uh? What's Rory's bigger mistake? Crashing the car
her boyfriend built for her or sleeping with her ex
who is married? And by the way, they happen to
be the same person. So what's the bigger mistake? The
car crash or the uh the uh? Okay, the sleeping
(32:35):
with the x Okay, yes you're and you're correct about that. Uh?
Who from Gilmour? Would you not want to be stuck
on a desert island?
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Oh? I think all the characters were wonderful. Wasn't the
father of the lore Lies dad? Wasn't he a little Uh?
Wasn't he a little cantankerous?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yea a little bit?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Yeah? Maybe him?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
So maybe Shell, the snooty French concierge at the dragonfly In.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I guess so, yes, Michelle, I don't know. It just
came to me.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I'm about to see him, so I wanted to get
that and so I have something over. I love this game.
This is awesome. Uh something in your life? You are
all in.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
On being a father and a husband.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
There you go, all right, Steven, it was a pleasure,
and uh, we'd love to have you back on. I
got a million more things I want to talk with
you about. But anyway, best of luck to you and
keep on keeping on, brother. Thank you, thank you, thank
you for apologies for oh no worries, but thank you,
(33:50):
thank you for sharing uh these these very warm and
very intimate stories your father.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Oh, it's my pleasure and he'd be thrilled.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Thank you so much and enjoy your day, right, take care,
(34:33):
hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at
I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore
at iHeartRadio dot com. Oh you're Gilmore friends. If you're
looking for the best cup of coffee in the world,
go to my website from my company Scottip dot com
s C O T T y P dot com, Scottip
dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee
Hosts And Creators
Amy Sugarman
Danielle Romo
Scott Patterson
Tara Soudbaksh
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