This Isn’t Old Man Music: Kool & The Gang

His song "Celebrate" played in the Gilmore Girls series finale, the co-founding member of Kool & The Gang,  Robert “Kool” Bell joins Scott for a chat about his legendary career. 

 

He shares his beginnings from Jersey City to learning how to play music from New York City Jazz clubs, and what it truly feels to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I Am all in.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
You.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
This Isn't Old Man Music with Scott Patterson Everything You've
ever wanted to know about the music of Gilmour Girls.
Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I Am all of Them Podcast
one eleven Productions. iHeartRadio Media, iHeart podcast. This Isn't Old
Man Music, Episode two, and I have a very very
special guest, the one and only founder of Cool and

(00:42):
the Gang, Robert cool Bell. Welcome, Robert. Let me tell
everybody a little bit about your accomplishments, and buckle up everybody,
because it's gonna take a while. He's a co founder, leader,
and master bassist for the legendary Grammy winning rock and
roll Hall of famers Cool and the Gang. Cool and

(01:04):
his family emigrated to Jersey City, New Jersey, in the
early sixties. Shortly thereafter, Cool and his brother Ronald joined
neighborhood friends Spike Mickens, Dennis Thomas, Ricky Westfield, George Brown,
and Charles Smith to create a distinctive musical blend of jazz,
soul and funk. At first calling Spells the Jazzy Acts,

(01:28):
and the band went through various name changes, New Dimension,
the Sole Town Band, and Cool in the Flames before
settling on Cool in the Gang, nineteen sixty eight multi
platinum selling group. The most sampled band of all time,
Cool in the Gang has sold over Get This eighty
million albums worldwide and influencing music of generations with twenty

(01:49):
five top ten R and B hits, nine top ten
pop hits, at thirty one gold and platinum albums. Classics
include the one and Only Jungle Boogie which I just
figured out on my guitar, Hollywood Swinging Ladies' Night, and
the number one hit Celebration. The band were recently inducted

(02:10):
into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Cool's business
ventures include a successful Lay Cool Champagne uh and, with
his departed wife Sekina I hope I got that pronounce
Yester right, it co founded a nonprofit music education initiative,
the Cool Kids Foundation, which is currently overseen by his sons,

(02:32):
Haquem and Mohammad. Just such a pleasure to have you, Robert,
Thank you so much for coming. And what do you
remember most about those early days in Jersey City when
when Cool in the Gang was just getting started well.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
In Jersey City and also downtown on the Village of
New York. We used to play and uh, you know,
they dropped a little money in the basket, you know
that kind of thing. Who were young having fun at
the time. And then we ended up working over the
Cafe WA in New York where on weekends every Saturday

(03:10):
and Sunday they were having they call who Danny And
that's one different groups like Richie Havens and other artists
were like Starist, but we was like the young artist
going up. So that was the early days working in
New York and New Jersey. And then we used to

(03:32):
work in New Jersey. We came up with the name
the Jazzy Acts, and uh we were into jazz. My
brothers into John Coltrane, d T was Canniball Alley, George Phi,
Philly Jones, Charles West Mctgummy Spike was then too, uh

(03:53):
you have it, and Ricus Herbie Hancott. Yeah, jazz and
I played based. I was with us excuse me on
Carlon jamieson some of the other basics right right.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
For those of you listening who do not know, jazz
was very prevalent in the seventies, especially on the East Coast.
I used to spend weekends up in New York City,
My sister was living with a with her boyfriend up there,
and so I used to spend summers up there, and
I used to come up on weekends as well during
school sometimes, and the jazz clubs were filled with great players.

(04:34):
Cafe you mentioned Cafe Wah. I know that was a
very famous spot. Tell us a little bit about Cafe
wa and some of the legends that used to frequent
that place.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, well, like Ritchie Havens mil came. He played drums. Yeah,
a lot of different lot it was a fun day.
Was on Sunday, right, Okay. I learned how to play
at the bass after my bullet told me you should

(05:03):
try to play the basement this one song, uh as
Caffrey walk now Spike Mickens brother play guitar. So I
learned how to play one song on one string. It
was called coming Home Baby, and all you have to
do is go up and down the East Ring. And
so when I replanted, I said, well don't you try

(05:25):
to playing that one song? I would bout that guy's
base and I did, and that was the beginning of
my bass plan.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Mm hmm. Well you started banding out playing jazz, uh,
how did that evolve in the funk and then the
soul sound.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
We know today, well we're playing jazz. But when we
started playing for what happened was there was an organization
in Jersey City, Uh we called so the Souletown Review.
They were trying to be like the Motown Review. So
we became the Soultoime band, and we would have to

(06:05):
learn the various RV song mostly Motown songs, you know,
and that's how the jazz kind of kind of transmitted transits.
This is into the trying this into RV side.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Cooley Gang has been sampled by so many artists from
hip hop to pop, you name it. Do you have
a favorite sample of one of your songs?

Speaker 2 (06:33):
I would say some of the Madness because Will Smith
came up with Summer Time, went platinum with number one,
and became a movie star. Right. There's others, I mean,
you know, try called Quest the sample of music, a
lot of other groups sample of music, but that one

(06:56):
Coon sticks out some.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Of Madness and is the idea behind that song. There's
no lyrics, it's just this beautiful, easy listening song. What
inspired that song?

Speaker 2 (07:10):
It started off with a song called you Don't Have
to Change Mike Mickens wrote that song and at the
end of the song there was a vam and my
brother was in the studio one day. He said, you

(07:31):
know that vamp. I want to work with that van
and uh. He had just got the art synthesizer, so
he was in there fooling around with it. And that
part that you talked about that and then that became
some of Madness because Spike said, oh he was gay,

(07:55):
all right. I told me we'll call this. He said, well, well,
let's call it some of badness. So we didn't know
that song was gonna be called the Smell it ca.
I mean the movie Rocket, Uh, sevests the onest thing
there across the big the box that have a fight

(08:16):
that next day, and he listened to he listened to
some of that, right, So I went from there to
Will Smith to a lot of people, a lot of
samples on some of that.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, So let's talk about celebration that was in the
season finale of Gilmore Girls, and it's such a timeless anthem. Uh,
did you know that it would become or had the
potential to become the ultimate party song when you were
recording it. Did the producer say anything like, guys, this
thing is just gonna go big. Everybody's gonna want to

(08:52):
play this song at their wedding parties and birthdays and
things like that. Did you guys have any inkling, Well, we.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Really didn't know. The journey started off with Ladies Night. Ladies'
Night was when my wife and I was hanging out
in New York and JG had just joined the band,
and we were at two of fifty four and Regimes
and some of the hotspots in New York, and we

(09:21):
realized that Friday nights the weekend with the Ladies Night.
So I went back to the guys. I said, wow,
you know it's a Ladies Night on the weekends in
New York. And my brother said, wow, there's a Ladies'
Night all over the world. So anyway, fast forward, so
we did Ladis Night. We end up doing two, were

(09:44):
getting two American music wars. I'll know it a Ladies Night.
The end of Ladies Night, this is your night tonight,
come on, it's all celebrate. My brother, Oh there's another song,
and he got together and came up with this concept. Yeah.
Uh he played for us and they had that down
Hall Field to it, you know, uh, and uh that's

(10:08):
how he came up with the celebration part of it all.
You know, that's how Celebration was created. Not knowing we
thought Ladles, you know new Thayer, We thought that that
would be big. It was, but Celebration top of them all.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
So of all the hits, which song still feels the
best to play live after all these years?

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Best to play live?

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, two sections one one section of I show I
call it the gang a session. That's when we do
John Go Boogie into Hollywood swing. No, we start with
funky stuff jungle boogie until Holly was swinging and the
story around that. With the record coman, he told us said, listen,

(11:08):
you guys are not really you got territorial hits. There's
a producer out there and there's a record out there
that's song Solvacusa, Mango DeMarco and their producer. They said okay,
So we had a meeting with him. We weren't filling him.
So we went down the baggage downtown New York and

(11:30):
we went in the studio about here o'clock in the morning,
and when we finished, we had created Bunky shir John
Go Boogie in Hollywood Swinging. Now John Go Boogie went
the top five. I believe Holly was swinging with also
in the top five the Funkys there for number one,

(11:52):
R and B for about seven weeks. So when we
play on our show, we played that part jungle boogie,
funcky stuff, jungle boogie. How I was swinging. The crowd
is up, then we slow down, go a little bit
of chairs, a little bit of summer madness, and then
we come back with Ladies Night. Get down on it

(12:18):
in celebration. If you ain't got the people moving by
then those three will get you up out of your seat.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Oh yeah, yes, you will get up.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
You know two errors there, right, answer your question?

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Right? So you got the van. Just got inducted into
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame last year. Tell
us if you will, what that moment meant to you personally?

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Well me personally, I feel very good about that. Unfortunately,
we all wanted to be in the Wackall Hall of Fame.
All my members have passed, my brother George Brown, all
of them. I was the last minute then so and
then of doing the song with JG. But the thing

(13:03):
about it was that, you know, we had tour with
Elton John. We have been told Elton John Brother, Roger Stewart,
uh and we did the four year shows with Van Halen,
ten shows with kid Ron, Dave matthews Man. He said,

(13:26):
all rock and roll any it called the rock and
Roll Hall Fan. I was born in Yukstown and Cleveland
was right up the street. So I said, how did
I give us no love? I ask you a question.
They finally came and gave us some love. That's what

(13:46):
I felt about that.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
It is amazing that it took so long, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yes? It is.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
It really is amazing, really is amazing. Why do you
think that is? Why do you think that it took
so long to intuct you in the rock and Roll
Hall of Fame? Because it was it wasn't pure rock.
I mean the umbrella is pretty wide with the rock
and Roll Hall of Fame. Why do you think it
took so long?

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Well, you know, you have the fans who vote for you,
and then you have these decision makers. So the behind
the scene guys is one of the big and final
of decision you know, because I mean you had like
try call well not of course, a couple of hip

(14:34):
hop acts Step was in the Alcohol Hall of Fame,
A couple other acts. But we're trying to figure out, well,
why do you think it's so long for us? That's
a good question.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Your songs are among the most recognized, instantly recognizable songs
in the history of modern music and jazz. I mean,
it is confounding, isn't it. It is really confounding. And
by the way, one thing when when I was re

(15:08):
listening to your songs before having you come on, is
the the intros to your song. The instrumental intros to
your song are brilliant. They're just they're like hooks in
and of themselves, so you know exactly what the song is,
you know exactly where you're going. You guys set up
a song better than anyone I've ever heard. You know,

(15:32):
that's really a question to ponder why it took so long.
It's just it's just amazing to me, just just astounding.
I mean, these are easily the most recognizable songs in
the world over the past fifty years.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
All of the things, let's cut you off, is that
my mother should tell me, brother this. You always have
to come up with a melody that people can't remember,
you know, And you thought about that, and when you
look at what you know, then you got. Damn you

(16:16):
go to a circuit or whatever you can remember and
come up with memorable hooks.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
What you just said, Yeah, just incredible. And when you
hear them, it's like you think, well, why didn't I
think of that? Well, it's because you didn't think of that.
It's it's just like they seem so simple, but they're
so difficult to come up with.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
They are.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
How would you describe, uh, the creative creative relationship between
you and your brother Ronald over the years. How did
that dynamic work inside the band? Were you guys the
principal songwriters?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well, my brother in terms of the horns, all the
horn lives, that's what my brother came up with. Wow,
you know. And then uh, you got Charles. Now Charles
he was a Western gummy guy, you know. And you
hear that thumb Sunston too hot now, George rout it okay,

(17:17):
So all of different slavers. It was all about what
cooling gangs about. It was hard to give us the
title so well the full the R and B or
this is this and now they're pop, But we did Johanna,
Oh then they were too bubble of them now, Johanna
the bouncing ball We did what we felt. We wasn't

(17:44):
looking into what people would say about us. We had
a song called Coachy Junkie in a Country Junkie. So
we just did what we felt. We didn't tell to
go by what people say, well we should be, We
just didn't and it helped us a listen for that.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
So it seems like when I'm listening to these songs,
the musical i Q of the band members is so high.
Did you did all of you guys study uh composition?
Did you study jazz or did you just grow up
listening to jazz and have this sort of innate talent

(18:25):
to incorporate it into your music? Which one?

Speaker 2 (18:30):
We grew up listening to jazz, listening to R and
B and uh. We told each other, like Charles, my
guitar player, just show me here's a little line. But
it's a line. Uh, the Halls would do something intil
hobby to play it or whatever, or Mickey West. It
was just it was imagic that, you know, hard to

(18:54):
explain right what we would do. I mean, he's talking
about left the music, mind, love and understanding and who's
gonna take the weight? That's all different scenarios there. Who's
gonna take the weight. That's the whole story. Yeah, so

(19:17):
we were blessed for that. And then like with Ladies
Night and uh pobs about George and the girlfriend they
broke up seven feel high schools. He goes, that's all
by himself because he's the only one one to that.
So that's how you know, opens opens. Yeah, every fun

(19:39):
and fire that was like had the dominant horn you know,
yeah fire horn line, you know, and you compete with that.
So my brother came up with an idea and that
was what open. He said, We're gonna keep it on
the dance vibe, We're gonna swing it, but we're gonna
compete with whoever's out there. That that said, people say,

(20:06):
who couldn't even play that? What is they playing? What
is that end up being? In Saturday Night Fever sold
over twenty million, a record until Michael Jackson came along
with Dweller's Got's a Blessing? What can I say?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
H Let me ask you this, when when you look
at how Funk and R and B have evolved, what
do you think is the biggest influence Cooling the Gang

(20:44):
left on the artists of today.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Well, I would say a style of thought when you
sounds like someone just asked me about that. At the
other day, Funcky Glenny said, what the hell is monkey Glenny?
Monky man? All those facts see it to an equility

(21:08):
breeds in soul. We just mixed it up UK with
a lot of bands. Study what we did. You know
I got I have to take my head off. George Clinton,
he calls us the master of the p phon and
we were the master of the p pong too. But
we can go out to the cherish. I wouldn't go

(21:29):
into rush. Oh we can go into too hot. We
can go into emergency. Rey Kaye's answer, You know, we.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Just did what we fell just a bunch of really
talented players putting it together in rehearsal and coming up
with great stuff. Huh. How often did you rehearse in
the early days did you Were you rehearsing all the time.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
In earlier days? Yeah, yeah, put it all together right. Uh.
And the latter days on the road, we would do
like rehearsal at soundcheck. The soundcheck was almost like a rehearsal, sure,
and certain songs came from a soundcheck, like Reggae Danson
soundcheck and my other brother Mia started playing that little track,

(22:17):
you know, and then we came up with everybody was
just you know, uh chime in and then they're like,
oh lah, check it. You know, it was magic that
just happened. And that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
You also have an incredible foundation, the Cool Kids Foundation.
What kind of impact you seeing through the music education
programs your family runs.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
But what happened was my wife, who up passed eight
years ago, she asked me, how come they don't have
music in the schools. So I was on the road
a lot, so I thought about it, and she was
doing trying to put something together locally, and uh, I said, well,

(23:04):
you you know what I said. When we were coming
up through grammar school, there was music in the school,
there were music teachers. You go in and uh yeah,
you uh pick up an instrument and you take it
home and etcetera extension that wasn't happening. I mean, I
had a melophone. I said, I ain't messing with that.

(23:26):
That's the one like a French hall. I said, I'll
bust my lip all of them. I took the violin.
I couldn't quite get into that. Couldn't quite get into that,
you know, I remember the base but one music was
in school. School. So that's when I came up with

(23:49):
a concept. Idea said called school to stay is cool?
Excuse me to stay in school? Chilli Coke get to
the table. I said, yeah, we like to prom was that?
So we did forty two City four and all those
kids that had good grades and uh nothing playing not playing,

(24:12):
I hope you from school and all that stuff. We
would meet them on the meet and greet and after
them and at the meet and greet, uh, four guys
came up to us and said, yeah, we're doing good
in school, but we want to sing something. And so
I said, okay, we listen, and they did a cappella

(24:34):
on four songs. You know that group became colored me bad,
I want to sex you up. All that was about
the school thing. So that's what my wife wanted to
bring back so far. Next year will be our seventh
Cool Kids Foundation. We're donating knowing into the schools, the
marching bands. Uh that's the whole thing about Cool Kids Foundation.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
I want to ask you about Jungle Boogie. Tell tell
me about how that jam came about, because that is
just deadly. That is just the most lethal piece of music.
I think coming out one of the most lethal pieces
of music coming out of the seventies. It's just so
incredibly rich. How'd that happen?

Speaker 2 (25:20):
We were under pressure. The record company came to us
and said, yeah, you guys got territorial hits Connecticut, maybe Virginia,
Jersey and the Soma. So we'd say, Okay, we're gonna
create our own so not that we're trying to do with,

(25:42):
but there is and the Prussia we will song about.
Let get your back of all the wall? How bad
was on the wall? Okay, that's how y'all feel? And
Joe Oboden was the first one check this out, came
over them all line, we came up with it all
came together. It wasn't like a complicated song with a

(26:05):
lot of lyric ability.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
It was no, it was you didn't need it with
with that riff, you just need to repeat it.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, that was We have fun play.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
And when do you play that in your set? And
what is the reaction in the crowd when you play that?
When do you usual? Where do you have that on
the set list?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Close to the middle of the set?

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Middle?

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Okay, when we go to the funk stuff. We played
funky stuff, jungle boogie, Hollywood swing, you know, and we
got them and that's that's the funky side. Then we
go through some of that and then we come to
the end. But yeah, they really those songs. Sometimes a

(26:48):
song and in the biggests something else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
So yeah, people tell you after the show, like like
when you guys went into jungle boogie, that was like
a moment for me, you know, right swinging to right.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, Yeah, So when when you look.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Back on well not you let me rephrase this. When
people look back on cool in the Gang, let's say
one hundred years from now, what do you hope they
remember Robert.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Well, some young guys from Jersey City coming up to
JAD coming up through a R and B p H.
We'll go to pop. Actually they call those pop outs,
you know, I mean top ten pop records, you know,
and it's like, I guess, slice it in something, Well,

(27:46):
you can make it if you try. We never gave up.
That's the same thing with the cool kids. You can
become somebody. That's what the foundation is about, right, That's
why we help them because a lot of the programs
are not in school anymore. Right, So that kind of
a thing. Uh. We had songs like Love and Understanding,
which was a big record for us, and uh, you

(28:10):
know you need more love today, you need more understanding today.
Look at what we're dealing with today. We had a
song called music is the Message that sings universal love
for what and all. We were dropping some messages there.
They were all about bump, you're closer, saying that's what

(28:34):
I want people to know.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Beautiful. So you're on tour, tell me what we can
expect and where we can see you.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, we just did thirty days in Europe just past
July and August, and we're going out again next year.
And h we have a concept I do anyway, the
Cool Champagne and I have to do with Akatron watches

(29:05):
the Cool Champagne and Akatron possesses the Cooling game Rock
the World Tour and I got a part to it.
What I want to do ten classical shows, a classic
evening with cool in the game. Because we've played with
Philemon books, so we want to pick ten cities. Well,

(29:28):
we bring on sixty piece office. Wow. Also because we've
done them already, Wow, we want to do them again.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Next year coming to California. You're coming to Southern California.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, we played with down Walk down there with orchestra.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
All right, we gotta come out and see you if
you come to Southern California, we gotta come out and
see you because that would be an incredible show. And yeah,
you also have your your lay cool Champagne. Uh where
can people get this?

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, right now, you can get it online who Champagne
dot com. Well it's sanatorial as who get into Champagne
in different states? Right now? We have a new Jersey,
we have Florida. We're working back again in Ohio, Las Vegas.

(30:23):
You know, we're building the market.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Robert, thank you so much for taking the time talking
to us. You are a legend and Cooling the Gang
is probably the coolest band coming out of the seventies.
Just incredible music, incredible guys, and uh and thank you
for all you do and keep doing it. And that's

(30:47):
going to wrap us here on on this segment. And uh,
Robert cool Bell, thank you Sarah for joining us, and
thanks to the best fans on the planet. Keep the
downloads coming, cards and letters, and remember where you lead,
we will follow. Stay safe everyone, Let's keep and let's

(31:07):
keep the funk. Alive, absolutely everybody, and don't forget. Follow

(31:41):
us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and
email us at Gilmore at iHeartRadio dot com