January 25, 2022 • 28 mins
At the second anniversary of Kobe Bryant's death, we explore how the change in Kobe late in his career might have come about and what this “new Kobe” was like. We hear from Carmelo Anthony, future Hall of Famer, 9th-leading scorer in NBA history. And we hear from two players on Kobe’s hometown team: the Philadelphia 76ers. Mike Sielski spoke with Seth Curry and Tobias Harris about their vantage points on Kobe: what it was like to grow up watching him and what it was like to meet him and play against him. And more importantly, we spoke about why Kobe’s presence and spirit are still felt throughout the NBA.
Purchase Mike Sielski's related book: “The Rise: Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality": TheRiseOfKobeBook.com
Join the conversation about “I Am Kobe” on social media: on Twitter and Instagram: @diversionpods
Our theme music is “Create Yourself” by Grover Braam feat. Justin Starling: Listen to Create Yourself on Spotify
Cover photo © Eileen Blass – USA TODAY NETWORK
“I Am Kobe” is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association with iHeartRadio. This season is written and hosted by Mike Sielski. Produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial direction from Scott Waxman. Editing, mixing, and sound design by Mark Francis. Production Assistant: Stephen Tompkins. Music Supervisor: Scott Velasquez for Frisson Sync. Executive Producers: Mark Francis and Scott Waxman.
Thanks to Oren Rosenbaum, Susan Canavan, and Jeremy Treatman.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Diversion podcasts where people who actually, you know nothing about
the game I had before. I didn't know it's how
to write paragraphs, and uh, I can take criticism. That
just makes you work hard and it makes me prove
them wrong. Probably didn't care and they're right on the one.
(00:28):
I'm saying, hey, all the hard working I can do it,
and I'm approve to you, but I can do it.
And that's how that was. I wasn't upset, UH wasn't
hurt or anything like that. Just came back to say, man,
I prove you wrong. That'sh it comes to win, goes
to my memory bank, it goes to my motivation bank,
it comes out of the other head. Over the previous
(01:02):
eleven episodes of this series, we've been exposed to the
many different sides of the adolescent Kobe Bryant, the young Mamba.
We saw his confidence, and we saw his insecurities. We
saw the loyalty and love he had for his friends
and family, and we saw his willingness to let people
he was close to drift out of his life. We
(01:24):
saw his raw honesty, and we saw his ability to
manipulate situations and people to his advantage to keep secrets
to get what he wanted. We've got a good long
look at a complex kid who became a complex man.
The clip that opened this episode was, of course, from
one of Kobe's interviews with Jeremy Treaty. It was from
(01:47):
early in his senior year at Lower Merit. Jeremy had
asked him what he thought of the sportswriters and talk
radio hosts who thought he shouldn't skip college, shouldn't turn pro,
and probably wouldn't make it in the NBA. You asked
Kobe a question like that, you're going to get another
side of him. In return, you're going to get defiance.
(02:08):
And that side of Kobe, his defiance side is one
that his teammates, his coaches, the media, and plenty of
other people saw. Throughout his career with the Lakers. Kobe
was not an approachable guy for most of those twenty years.
He was a workaholic and often very much a loner
and entity unto himself. He wasn't accepting much advice from
(02:30):
his elders and his peers, and it took him a
while to start dishing any out. This was kind of
what the Mamba mentality was all about. Imagine you wake
up at three, you train at four, you go four
to six, come home, breakfast, relax. So so now you're
back at it again, nine to eleven. Relax, And now
it's done. Your back at it again to the four.
(02:50):
And how you're back at it again seven to nine.
Look how much more training I have done by simply
starting at four? All right? And so now you do that.
And as the years go on, the separation that you
have with your competitors, in your peers just grows larger
and larger and larger and larger. But once Kobe reached
the last few seasons of his career and moved into retirement,
(03:13):
something about him seemed to change. He wrote a best
selling book, he won an oscar, He embraced his role
as a girl dad, and he morphed into the wise
old owl of the NBA. Players sought him out for
counsel and insight, and more importantly, he was open to
giving it. This was not the Kobe we knew. We're
(03:35):
at the second anniversary of his death, and one of
the factors that made it more tragic was that Kobe
appeared to be moving in this new direction in his life.
There seemed to be more ahead for him. So in
this bonus episode, we wanted to explore how that change
might have come about and what this new Kobe was like,
and we wanted to do it through the perspectives of
(03:57):
three current NBA players, Guys who could explain what it
was like to play against or with Kobe, to talk
to Kobe, to interact with Kobe in those years just
before his death. Guys who could express the meaning of
Kobe's legacy in a way most of us never could.
We'll start out with someone familiar to basketball fans every year.
(04:20):
Fakes put up that's God fine text on the second
relating he'll still time fix a two point Yeah, so tact.
Carmelo Anthony, future Hall of Famer, the ninth leading scorer
in NBA history, is in his nineteenth season in the
(04:41):
league and his first with the Lakers. I didn't interview Mellow,
but two guys who have covered the NBA much longer
and much better than I have, Jack McCallum and j A.
Adonde did. They talked to him for season two of
another diversion podcast, the Dream Team Tapes. Mellow and Kobe
were teammates for the US at the two thousand eight
(05:03):
and two thousand twelve Summer Olympics. The other two players
are teammates on Kobe's hometown team, the Philadelphia seventy six Ers.
I spoke with Seth Curry and Tobias Harris about their
vantage points on Kobe, what it was like to grow
up watching him, and what it was like to meet
him and play against him, and more important, as Seth
(05:25):
Curry says here, we spoke about why Kobe's presence and
spirit are still felt throughout the NBA, the guys who
are in the league and of guys who grew up
watching I played. We grew up on him, um from
their little kids to play twenty years in the league
or whatever. So that's twenty years of our start learning
the game, first watching the game. And we kind of
(05:48):
saw his whole career as a youngster, his time with
the Lakers, his whole career with the Lakers, ups and downs, tragedy,
triumphs the way, but became a lout of adversity. So uh,
I'm saying he's just one of the greatest ever do it,
and he did it his own way, So I mean
that respect level was present across the league. I'm Mike
(06:18):
Sealski and from Diversion Podcasts, This is I am cool,
I love, Why sweet? Why Steve create myself? Exac signs
up and create yourself. Say nice, now, go on create yourself.
(06:39):
You gotta line for the great minds. But we ain't
lyne tell them next any time. Episode twelve, Legacy through
(07:00):
Carmelo Anthony's first five years in the NBA, he and
Kobe Bryant weren't really friends. They might text now and again,
but they weren't what anyone would call close and mellow. Well,
his perception of Kobe was one that was pretty common
around the league. Here he is again talking to Jack
and j A like he, I mean, he don't give
(07:20):
a damn Like he don't got no friends. He just
all about basketball. He just locked in seven like that's
who he was. It wasn't my perception, was his reality
like that was everybody knew that. You know, Kobe ain't
trying to be cool with nobody, like you don't want
no friends, like he focused on being great in basketball
and training and keeping like he was he always trying
(07:42):
to figure out a way how to get one up
on somebody and try to get the age. So we
knew that I knew that, but then once we got
in OH eight, that was when our our relationship really
took off. When Mellow says OH eight, he's talking about
the run up to the two thousand eight Summer Olympics
in Beijing. The US men's basketball team at those games
(08:03):
was known as the Redeemed Team because the US had
finished sixth at the two thousand two World Championships and
had struggled to take bronze at the OH four Games
in Athens. The Redeemed Team had Kobe and Mellow and
Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, and the team's leadership corps
wanted to make a few things clear to Kobe before
(08:26):
they embarked on their quest to win the gold medal.
He couldn't be selfish, He couldn't be a gunner. He
had the sacrifice for the good of the team. Because
of the pree noting that everybody had about Kobe him
coming on the team, everybody expected that him to bring
what he was doing with the Lakers, and you know,
everybody just thought that's what he was going to do
(08:47):
coming on that team, and as leaders on the team
that was approached before that, you know, it was sit
down with cold like listen, bro, like, we don't need
the Laker Kobe, Like you know what I'm saying, like
we we need we need you to be who you are.
But you're playing with you know, you're playing with the best.
Now you're playing the best of the best. So I
(09:08):
think at first it took him a little while for
for him to adjust to that. Once he did, though,
Kobe was the best player on that Olympic team, and
he didn't have to shoot all the time to do it.
Ryan gets its side, kicks it out the anthonies, but
shooting wild backs off the time. He was a tone
(09:32):
center with his work, ethic and defense, and by opening
himself up to his teammate's advice and suggestions, Kobe expanded
his vision for the kind of player and the kind
of person he could be. Here's mellow again, the way
that he bought himself to become so comfortable with us,
you know, and the players on the team, and you know,
(09:53):
really understanding like okay, like this is a band of
brothers here, Like you know, in the Lakers, he was,
he was who he was, he would you know, he
come in early in the morning, he come in late
at night and he's working and he's doing his thing,
and he's out when people coming there. There it was
you know, he never let nobody in there with us
like he was. You know, he was very you know,
secretive and stand office with us. Like you saw him
(10:18):
like slowly letting his guard down, even on the buses,
you know, even going to the Olympic village and going
to other sporting events, like you saw the guard coming
coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and he was
fully immersed in and what we was doing and being
(10:38):
there with us, and that was something that was like Okay,
he finally like okay, we got the last brick down,
like the wall is down, Like it's down, y'all. This
damn we did a good job. Like it was you
almost felt like a sense of victory seeing him laugh
the way that he was laughing and you know, talking
and communicating and stories and just like you, we felt that.
(11:03):
I don't think it's a coincidence that Kobe won his
final two NBA championships with the Lakers in two thousand
nine and two thousand ten right after Beijing. And I
don't think it's a coincidence that the changes we saw
in Kobe began in earnest around then too. I really
see the two thousand eight Olympics as a turning point
in his career and in his life. The Kobe he
(11:26):
became during the O eight Games was the Kobe he
remained until the day he died. I think we gave
him another egge. We gave him another level of sharpness
because he knew like how sharp we were on that team,
you know, from us getting up early in the morning
and training and working out and talking and can you
(11:46):
watch the film and and you know, having fun too.
But he saw the sharpness that we had on that
team everybody and and what what I used to say
was iron sharpness iron and he understood that. He understands
that language. And he also understand something that we submit him.
We've always say, lions don't hang with nobody other than lions. Right.
(12:07):
That's a gigantic shot, great played by Kobe Bryant. I
thought if you could controllers another three pubby Big Plubbly
buy from Balti the fil Paul flows in ahead, Koby
bin SoRs just about supper Fritish. Hey, this is Mike Sealsky,
(12:49):
host and writer of I Am Kobe, This podcast project
came out of my work on a related book called
The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality. If
you want to explore other parts of Kobe's story, check
out The Rise. It's not just a book version of
the podcast. I dive deeper into some of the topics
covered in this series, and even some that we don't
(13:11):
cover at all. Kobe's upbringing, his family, his identity, his
effect on his friends and teammates, his journey into the
n b A, and his earliest days with the Lakers.
The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality is
out now. Just head over to the Rise of Kobe
book dot com and you can buy it from any
(13:32):
of your favorite retailers. That's The Rise of Kobe book
dot Com. Thanks. So, how did the characteristics of this
(14:01):
new Kobe manifest themselves? What was he like and how
is he different? In those latter years of his career
and during his retirement. We heard from Carmelo about how
and why Kobe changed, but he had known Kobe for
a long time. I wanted to talk to a couple
of players who didn't meet Kobe until much later, who
grew up idolizing him. Seth Curry and Tobias Harris of
(14:25):
the Sixers fit that description, and each had an interesting
or unique connection to Kobe. Seth is the son of
longtime NBA sharpshooter Del Curry and of course the younger
brother of superstar Steph Curry. Dell played against Kobe, Steph
played against Kobe, and Seth played against Kobe. Here's Seth.
(14:47):
Did you see the amount of half for Kobe? Long
devity and what he means? What he means to the game.
Remember growing up as a kid, um my dad playing
against him back is one of my favorite players back then,
the number eight. I just remember one cool let my
dad played at one time. He came back in the
(15:07):
d of the night from l a Um and he
brought me signs during the end his games shot from
that game, so I still have him to this day,
which is pretty cool. Just before the two thousand fifteen
sixteen season, Kobe's last in the NBA, Seth was playing
for the Sacramento Kings, who held a couple of preseason
games in Las Vegas. One night, while he was there,
(15:31):
Seth and a few of his teammates went out to eat.
A familiar face was already in the restaurant and Kobe
in the bag, and then it was him in security
guard um in the back when he walked out and
came to came to State with Uther, and he ended
up sitting sitting with us like hours and shopping up
(15:52):
with us, talking and telling us about me. We're asking
a question, tell us about what he was doing that
summer that season, just prepared for his last season, everything
he had to go through to get ready for a game. Uh,
he was just telling some crazy stories. So I'm really
the only chance to having to having extended interactional with Kobe,
talking to gain with him, just learning, picking his brain,
(16:12):
seeing how he how he taked. And it was kind
of cool because it was going into his last year.
You know, he kind of turned the corner as far
as his his competitivenessues only to a point where he
will to get away some secrets and some tips to
the other guys that you know, if that was five
and earlier than that, he wouldn't have told us nearly
any anything about what he's doing to get ready to play.
(16:34):
So still a pretty cool experience there. It is if
Seth had been playing in the NBA before two, before
Kobe went through his Olympic experience, would Kobe have approached
that table and taken the time to talk with Seth
and his teammates. I'm not sure that said, I don't
think Kobe ever lost the essence of who he was,
(16:54):
and Seth didn't think that either. I asked him what
he thought Kobe's legacy was. First of what was this
his competitiveness? I mean drive, his competitiveness to be great. Um,
he sacrifice a lot in his personal life friends, uh, friendship,
even he says, I his his as with his family
(17:15):
just to be to be the best of his craft
and to be the um best player could possibly be.
So you gotta respect that. Doing with one franchise for
twenty years. Um, just when his name is just tie
right in with the Laker, with the Laker organization like
a culture, the whole city of l A. I think
that's that competitiveness and instead the Laker tradition is is
(17:37):
his legacy. For Tobias Harris, Kobe's legacy was tangible well
after he had retired. Harris was in his seventh NBA
season and with his third NBA team, the Detroit Pistons
when they traded him to the Los Angeles Clippers in January.
(18:01):
The Clippers and the Lakers share the same home arena.
It was called Staples Center, then it's called Crypto dot
Com Arena now whatever its name. To Tobias, it was
Kobe's house. Yeah, just because, like you know, it was
always a feeling of about woman arenas was with the Clippments,
(18:21):
but just just knowing that it's there's a port of
Mark on all until his career achievements. You know, just
even when we were playing the Lakers, excitement seeing out
your games on TV. It was a real excitement for
the buzz of l A. But it's because of Kobe
and when he implemented you know, obviously Kobe and shocked
(18:44):
there doing that they had and then after that, but yeah,
being out there is it were like, you know, maybe
and playing in l A and playing in l A. Yeah,
obviously on the two hundred team, but just that that
buzz and basketball I think is was created and kind
(19:05):
of just heightened through Colby's achievements out there. Tobias is
in his fourth season with the six person and I
talked with him not long after he was involved in
an incident that made me think of Kobe. It happened
during a game against the Houston Rockets in Philadelphia. Tobias
has been having a bit of a down season, and
after he missed an easy shot and Philly fans started
(19:27):
booing it, he raised his arms in defiance as if
to say, bring it on. Then he hit a shot
later in the game, and as he ran back down court,
he said, don't fucking boom. He got a fair amount
of criticism and pushed back for that, which shouldn't be surprising.
Philly fans can be tough, but they're also pretty sensitive. Anyway,
(19:50):
since the incident had just happened, I asked him if
he'd given any thought to how Kobe would have reacted
in that situation. He wasn't at eve that. He was
a just on his his work, ethic and and and
pushing through. So you know, I'll take all those things
into consideration, of course, and mean, how about it just
(20:14):
continue to work. And you know, I think he was
one of the best playing to his career ups and downs,
and you know, nothing when he faced him on the floor,
So I think he definitely did a great job of that.
In late August two thousand nineteen, Kobe held a minicamp
for current NBA players. It was invite only and it
(20:36):
focused almost entirely on offense. Kobe wanted to impart his
knowledge to the next generation of scores. He held the
camp at his Mamba Academy in Thousand Oaks, California. It's
become a legendary event in recent NBA history. Tobias Harris
was one of the players Kobe invited. Again, I'm not
(20:57):
sure this is something Kobe would have even can sit
here doing earlier in his life. Yet it stands out
now as one of the reasons that he became such
a respected figure during his retirement. It's not just that
Kobe decided to try to be a mentor, it's that
players wanted him to be a mentor. Why What was
it about him that drew these younger guys to him.
(21:21):
Here's what Tobias told me. You know, I think, honestly,
this is the game of basketball. I think, you know,
when I was out there in l A and there's
a group of myself and I think it was like
twenty some guys. But you can see how much he
loves basketball and how much um basketball was was a
(21:44):
part of him. And really you can see he was
a very good teacher, and I think that was the
thing that he probably knew his whole career. But he retired.
I think he had like a realization, I've got such
a good teacher at teaching people things that I should
do it more. And I remember where we were at
(22:04):
to camp that was all like an offense camp, and
he was shown some guys some defense because I joke
a like, man, that's what That's what I want to
build this student. Next year of defense, next year, God,
(22:29):
think about it. That was the summer of two thousand nineteen.
There was no next year. Five months later, Kobe was gone.
We are two years removed now from his death, and
in so many ways, it is still surreal. In so
many ways, the shock still lingers. In so many ways,
(22:53):
it feels like that tragedy didn't really happen. We've done
our best in this series to give you a fresh
look at Kobe, a chance to see him and examine
him and judge him and remember him from a different perspective,
(23:14):
from several different perspectives. Always, though, there was one theme
at the core of this podcast, the drive that made
Kobe great. Everything was done to try to learn how
to become a better basketball player. Everything, everything, And so
when you have that point of view, then literally the
(23:35):
world becomes your library to help you to become better
at your craft. The players that had that passion but
weren't willing to commit their entire lives to doing that, right,
it's a choice. Right, you have other things, You have
a family, you have all these other things that you
have to do. The game can't really be your number
(23:58):
one priority. And so I was just looking at that like, man,
I'm this is gonna be fun. You saw a lot
of the young Mamba. You saw some of Kobe and
his crime. In this episode. You saw how Kobe mature,
how even he saw himself in a different way. You
might admire him, you might despise him, but it will
(24:22):
be impossible to forget it. And we appreciate you joining
us as we told this story. I Am Kobe is
a production of the Version Podcasts in association with I
(24:43):
Heart Radio. This season is written and hosted by me
Mike Sealskin. It's produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by
Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein, with editorial direction
from Scott Waxen. Editing, mixing and sound design by Mark Francis.
Stephen Thompkins is our production assistant. Our theme music is
(25:04):
Create Yourself by Grover Brown featuring Justin Starling. Find Create
Yourself wherever you stream music. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez
for fre Soans Sinking. Executive producers are Mark Francis and
Scott Waxman. Join the conversation about I Am Kobe on
social media on Twitter and Instagram. It's at diversion Pods
(25:29):
thanks to Orin Rosenbaum, Susan Cannavan and Jeremy Treatment the
eyebries before the son. They don't understand when I say
the blind is fun. Never clack you out even where
my work is done. If they're trying to black me,
I might heart someone throw the blood sweat and says
we part Sufi, stay tending in. Let it keep the
harus in. If they don't believe in themselves, gab vert
(25:49):
defend that at Sampa says, so on't selling, don't ask
my am. This the reason why I'm I'm wearing so
damn different the negatives. I can listen see me at
the tap you and listen where I'm a vote to
play like cash is see, I pay my dudes because
taxes gotta work. I think and grind ahead of his time.
So I'm saying that they made you. Don't tell them
(26:10):
you create yourself the best you finn watch us by
that time. You gotta snake clock, then break clock. Break
we create ourselves. Watch me, watch me to create myself.
Exact client signs up and create yourself. They nice and
(26:33):
ain't no hard create yourself. You gotta learn from the
great minds that we ain't lying. Tell them next game time.
This talent wasn't given, it was made the future. Any
time I could change better, tell them that I made
it back home. As I walked through the hearts of
the fame, I came from the valley of the Shadow
with death waiting for us. Some spoons don't hold your breath,
(26:54):
sat Town, sat train. But I did it with less.
I know one that to be. So there's nothing in
the guests, Yeah, there's nothing to guess. It's our times.
Tell them we up next. We don't got any regrests.
I did it with my soon hands, and we never
forgets my an. This the reason why my work so
damn different to the negatives. I can't listen see me
(27:14):
at the time. You can't listen for where, rebuild, reach shape,
give me your eye. You got to risk take do
it now. When I'm saying why braves, I'm saying that
they man. You don't tell them you create yourself on
the bench, you finn or watch us by it's by
that time. You gotta snake clock, then break clock, break
(27:35):
we create ourselves. Watch me clach watch then create myself.
Shack Clin signs up and create yourself. They're nice and
ain't go on create yourself. Gotta learn from the great minds. No,
we ain't lying. Tell them next anytime. Diversion podcasts
Diversion podcasts where people who actually, you know nothing about
the game I had before. I didn't know it's how
to write paragraphs, and uh, I can take criticism. That
just makes you work hard and it makes me prove
them wrong. Probably didn't care and they're right on the one.
(00:28):
I'm saying, hey, all the hard working I can do it,
and I'm approve to you, but I can do it.
And that's how that was. I wasn't upset, UH wasn't
hurt or anything like that. Just came back to say, man,
I prove you wrong. That'sh it comes to win, goes
to my memory bank, it goes to my motivation bank,
it comes out of the other head. Over the previous
(01:02):
eleven episodes of this series, we've been exposed to the
many different sides of the adolescent Kobe Bryant, the young Mamba.
We saw his confidence, and we saw his insecurities. We
saw the loyalty and love he had for his friends
and family, and we saw his willingness to let people
he was close to drift out of his life. We
(01:24):
saw his raw honesty, and we saw his ability to
manipulate situations and people to his advantage to keep secrets
to get what he wanted. We've got a good long
look at a complex kid who became a complex man.
The clip that opened this episode was, of course, from
one of Kobe's interviews with Jeremy Treaty. It was from
(01:47):
early in his senior year at Lower Merit. Jeremy had
asked him what he thought of the sportswriters and talk
radio hosts who thought he shouldn't skip college, shouldn't turn pro,
and probably wouldn't make it in the NBA. You asked
Kobe a question like that, you're going to get another
side of him. In return, you're going to get defiance.
(02:08):
And that side of Kobe, his defiance side is one
that his teammates, his coaches, the media, and plenty of
other people saw. Throughout his career with the Lakers. Kobe
was not an approachable guy for most of those twenty years.
He was a workaholic and often very much a loner
and entity unto himself. He wasn't accepting much advice from
(02:30):
his elders and his peers, and it took him a
while to start dishing any out. This was kind of
what the Mamba mentality was all about. Imagine you wake
up at three, you train at four, you go four
to six, come home, breakfast, relax. So so now you're
back at it again, nine to eleven. Relax, And now
it's done. Your back at it again to the four.
(02:50):
And how you're back at it again seven to nine.
Look how much more training I have done by simply
starting at four? All right? And so now you do that.
And as the years go on, the separation that you
have with your competitors, in your peers just grows larger
and larger and larger and larger. But once Kobe reached
the last few seasons of his career and moved into retirement,
(03:13):
something about him seemed to change. He wrote a best
selling book, he won an oscar, He embraced his role
as a girl dad, and he morphed into the wise
old owl of the NBA. Players sought him out for
counsel and insight, and more importantly, he was open to
giving it. This was not the Kobe we knew. We're
(03:35):
at the second anniversary of his death, and one of
the factors that made it more tragic was that Kobe
appeared to be moving in this new direction in his life.
There seemed to be more ahead for him. So in
this bonus episode, we wanted to explore how that change
might have come about and what this new Kobe was like,
and we wanted to do it through the perspectives of
(03:57):
three current NBA players, Guys who could explain what it
was like to play against or with Kobe, to talk
to Kobe, to interact with Kobe in those years just
before his death. Guys who could express the meaning of
Kobe's legacy in a way most of us never could.
We'll start out with someone familiar to basketball fans every year.
(04:20):
Fakes put up that's God fine text on the second
relating he'll still time fix a two point Yeah, so tact.
Carmelo Anthony, future Hall of Famer, the ninth leading scorer
in NBA history, is in his nineteenth season in the
(04:41):
league and his first with the Lakers. I didn't interview Mellow,
but two guys who have covered the NBA much longer
and much better than I have, Jack McCallum and j A.
Adonde did. They talked to him for season two of
another diversion podcast, the Dream Team Tapes. Mellow and Kobe
were teammates for the US at the two thousand eight
(05:03):
and two thousand twelve Summer Olympics. The other two players
are teammates on Kobe's hometown team, the Philadelphia seventy six Ers.
I spoke with Seth Curry and Tobias Harris about their
vantage points on Kobe, what it was like to grow
up watching him, and what it was like to meet
him and play against him, and more important, as Seth
(05:25):
Curry says here, we spoke about why Kobe's presence and
spirit are still felt throughout the NBA, the guys who
are in the league and of guys who grew up
watching I played. We grew up on him, um from
their little kids to play twenty years in the league
or whatever. So that's twenty years of our start learning
the game, first watching the game. And we kind of
(05:48):
saw his whole career as a youngster, his time with
the Lakers, his whole career with the Lakers, ups and downs, tragedy,
triumphs the way, but became a lout of adversity. So uh,
I'm saying he's just one of the greatest ever do it,
and he did it his own way, So I mean
that respect level was present across the league. I'm Mike
(06:18):
Sealski and from Diversion Podcasts, This is I am cool,
I love, Why sweet? Why Steve create myself? Exac signs
up and create yourself. Say nice, now, go on create yourself.
(06:39):
You gotta line for the great minds. But we ain't
lyne tell them next any time. Episode twelve, Legacy through
(07:00):
Carmelo Anthony's first five years in the NBA, he and
Kobe Bryant weren't really friends. They might text now and again,
but they weren't what anyone would call close and mellow. Well,
his perception of Kobe was one that was pretty common
around the league. Here he is again talking to Jack
and j A like he, I mean, he don't give
(07:20):
a damn Like he don't got no friends. He just
all about basketball. He just locked in seven like that's
who he was. It wasn't my perception, was his reality
like that was everybody knew that. You know, Kobe ain't
trying to be cool with nobody, like you don't want
no friends, like he focused on being great in basketball
and training and keeping like he was he always trying
(07:42):
to figure out a way how to get one up
on somebody and try to get the age. So we
knew that I knew that, but then once we got
in OH eight, that was when our our relationship really
took off. When Mellow says OH eight, he's talking about
the run up to the two thousand eight Summer Olympics
in Beijing. The US men's basketball team at those games
(08:03):
was known as the Redeemed Team because the US had
finished sixth at the two thousand two World Championships and
had struggled to take bronze at the OH four Games
in Athens. The Redeemed Team had Kobe and Mellow and
Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, and the team's leadership corps
wanted to make a few things clear to Kobe before
(08:26):
they embarked on their quest to win the gold medal.
He couldn't be selfish, He couldn't be a gunner. He
had the sacrifice for the good of the team. Because
of the pree noting that everybody had about Kobe him
coming on the team, everybody expected that him to bring
what he was doing with the Lakers, and you know,
everybody just thought that's what he was going to do
(08:47):
coming on that team, and as leaders on the team
that was approached before that, you know, it was sit
down with cold like listen, bro, like, we don't need
the Laker Kobe, Like you know what I'm saying, like
we we need we need you to be who you are.
But you're playing with you know, you're playing with the best.
Now you're playing the best of the best. So I
(09:08):
think at first it took him a little while for
for him to adjust to that. Once he did, though,
Kobe was the best player on that Olympic team, and
he didn't have to shoot all the time to do it.
Ryan gets its side, kicks it out the anthonies, but
shooting wild backs off the time. He was a tone
(09:32):
center with his work, ethic and defense, and by opening
himself up to his teammate's advice and suggestions, Kobe expanded
his vision for the kind of player and the kind
of person he could be. Here's mellow again, the way
that he bought himself to become so comfortable with us,
you know, and the players on the team, and you know,
(09:53):
really understanding like okay, like this is a band of
brothers here, Like you know, in the Lakers, he was,
he was who he was, he would you know, he
come in early in the morning, he come in late
at night and he's working and he's doing his thing,
and he's out when people coming there. There it was
you know, he never let nobody in there with us
like he was. You know, he was very you know,
secretive and stand office with us. Like you saw him
(10:18):
like slowly letting his guard down, even on the buses,
you know, even going to the Olympic village and going
to other sporting events, like you saw the guard coming
coming down. You saw those bricks falling, and he was
fully immersed in and what we was doing and being
(10:38):
there with us, and that was something that was like Okay,
he finally like okay, we got the last brick down,
like the wall is down, Like it's down, y'all. This
damn we did a good job. Like it was you
almost felt like a sense of victory seeing him laugh
the way that he was laughing and you know, talking
and communicating and stories and just like you, we felt that.
(11:03):
I don't think it's a coincidence that Kobe won his
final two NBA championships with the Lakers in two thousand
nine and two thousand ten right after Beijing. And I
don't think it's a coincidence that the changes we saw
in Kobe began in earnest around then too. I really
see the two thousand eight Olympics as a turning point
in his career and in his life. The Kobe he
(11:26):
became during the O eight Games was the Kobe he
remained until the day he died. I think we gave
him another egge. We gave him another level of sharpness
because he knew like how sharp we were on that team,
you know, from us getting up early in the morning
and training and working out and talking and can you
(11:46):
watch the film and and you know, having fun too.
But he saw the sharpness that we had on that
team everybody and and what what I used to say
was iron sharpness iron and he understood that. He understands
that language. And he also understand something that we submit him.
We've always say, lions don't hang with nobody other than lions. Right.
(12:07):
That's a gigantic shot, great played by Kobe Bryant. I
thought if you could controllers another three pubby Big Plubbly
buy from Balti the fil Paul flows in ahead, Koby
bin SoRs just about supper Fritish. Hey, this is Mike Sealsky,
(12:49):
host and writer of I Am Kobe, This podcast project
came out of my work on a related book called
The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality. If
you want to explore other parts of Kobe's story, check
out The Rise. It's not just a book version of
the podcast. I dive deeper into some of the topics
covered in this series, and even some that we don't
(13:11):
cover at all. Kobe's upbringing, his family, his identity, his
effect on his friends and teammates, his journey into the
n b A, and his earliest days with the Lakers.
The Rise Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality is
out now. Just head over to the Rise of Kobe
book dot com and you can buy it from any
(13:32):
of your favorite retailers. That's The Rise of Kobe book
dot Com. Thanks. So, how did the characteristics of this
(14:01):
new Kobe manifest themselves? What was he like and how
is he different? In those latter years of his career
and during his retirement. We heard from Carmelo about how
and why Kobe changed, but he had known Kobe for
a long time. I wanted to talk to a couple
of players who didn't meet Kobe until much later, who
grew up idolizing him. Seth Curry and Tobias Harris of
(14:25):
the Sixers fit that description, and each had an interesting
or unique connection to Kobe. Seth is the son of
longtime NBA sharpshooter Del Curry and of course the younger
brother of superstar Steph Curry. Dell played against Kobe, Steph
played against Kobe, and Seth played against Kobe. Here's Seth.
(14:47):
Did you see the amount of half for Kobe? Long
devity and what he means? What he means to the game.
Remember growing up as a kid, um my dad playing
against him back is one of my favorite players back then,
the number eight. I just remember one cool let my
dad played at one time. He came back in the
(15:07):
d of the night from l a Um and he
brought me signs during the end his games shot from
that game, so I still have him to this day,
which is pretty cool. Just before the two thousand fifteen
sixteen season, Kobe's last in the NBA, Seth was playing
for the Sacramento Kings, who held a couple of preseason
games in Las Vegas. One night, while he was there,
(15:31):
Seth and a few of his teammates went out to eat.
A familiar face was already in the restaurant and Kobe
in the bag, and then it was him in security
guard um in the back when he walked out and
came to came to State with Uther, and he ended
up sitting sitting with us like hours and shopping up
(15:52):
with us, talking and telling us about me. We're asking
a question, tell us about what he was doing that
summer that season, just prepared for his last season, everything
he had to go through to get ready for a game. Uh,
he was just telling some crazy stories. So I'm really
the only chance to having to having extended interactional with Kobe,
talking to gain with him, just learning, picking his brain,
(16:12):
seeing how he how he taked. And it was kind
of cool because it was going into his last year.
You know, he kind of turned the corner as far
as his his competitivenessues only to a point where he
will to get away some secrets and some tips to
the other guys that you know, if that was five
and earlier than that, he wouldn't have told us nearly
any anything about what he's doing to get ready to play.
(16:34):
So still a pretty cool experience there. It is if
Seth had been playing in the NBA before two, before
Kobe went through his Olympic experience, would Kobe have approached
that table and taken the time to talk with Seth
and his teammates. I'm not sure that said, I don't
think Kobe ever lost the essence of who he was,
(16:54):
and Seth didn't think that either. I asked him what
he thought Kobe's legacy was. First of what was this
his competitiveness? I mean drive, his competitiveness to be great. Um,
he sacrifice a lot in his personal life friends, uh, friendship,
even he says, I his his as with his family
(17:15):
just to be to be the best of his craft
and to be the um best player could possibly be.
So you gotta respect that. Doing with one franchise for
twenty years. Um, just when his name is just tie
right in with the Laker, with the Laker organization like
a culture, the whole city of l A. I think
that's that competitiveness and instead the Laker tradition is is
(17:37):
his legacy. For Tobias Harris, Kobe's legacy was tangible well
after he had retired. Harris was in his seventh NBA
season and with his third NBA team, the Detroit Pistons
when they traded him to the Los Angeles Clippers in January.
(18:01):
The Clippers and the Lakers share the same home arena.
It was called Staples Center, then it's called Crypto dot
Com Arena now whatever its name. To Tobias, it was
Kobe's house. Yeah, just because, like you know, it was
always a feeling of about woman arenas was with the Clippments,
(18:21):
but just just knowing that it's there's a port of
Mark on all until his career achievements. You know, just
even when we were playing the Lakers, excitement seeing out
your games on TV. It was a real excitement for
the buzz of l A. But it's because of Kobe
and when he implemented you know, obviously Kobe and shocked
(18:44):
there doing that they had and then after that, but yeah,
being out there is it were like, you know, maybe
and playing in l A and playing in l A. Yeah,
obviously on the two hundred team, but just that that
buzz and basketball I think is was created and kind
(19:05):
of just heightened through Colby's achievements out there. Tobias is
in his fourth season with the six person and I
talked with him not long after he was involved in
an incident that made me think of Kobe. It happened
during a game against the Houston Rockets in Philadelphia. Tobias
has been having a bit of a down season, and
after he missed an easy shot and Philly fans started
(19:27):
booing it, he raised his arms in defiance as if
to say, bring it on. Then he hit a shot
later in the game, and as he ran back down court,
he said, don't fucking boom. He got a fair amount
of criticism and pushed back for that, which shouldn't be surprising.
Philly fans can be tough, but they're also pretty sensitive. Anyway,
(19:50):
since the incident had just happened, I asked him if
he'd given any thought to how Kobe would have reacted
in that situation. He wasn't at eve that. He was
a just on his his work, ethic and and and
pushing through. So you know, I'll take all those things
into consideration, of course, and mean, how about it just
(20:14):
continue to work. And you know, I think he was
one of the best playing to his career ups and downs,
and you know, nothing when he faced him on the floor,
So I think he definitely did a great job of that.
In late August two thousand nineteen, Kobe held a minicamp
for current NBA players. It was invite only and it
(20:36):
focused almost entirely on offense. Kobe wanted to impart his
knowledge to the next generation of scores. He held the
camp at his Mamba Academy in Thousand Oaks, California. It's
become a legendary event in recent NBA history. Tobias Harris
was one of the players Kobe invited. Again, I'm not
(20:57):
sure this is something Kobe would have even can sit
here doing earlier in his life. Yet it stands out
now as one of the reasons that he became such
a respected figure during his retirement. It's not just that
Kobe decided to try to be a mentor, it's that
players wanted him to be a mentor. Why What was
it about him that drew these younger guys to him.
(21:21):
Here's what Tobias told me. You know, I think, honestly,
this is the game of basketball. I think, you know,
when I was out there in l A and there's
a group of myself and I think it was like
twenty some guys. But you can see how much he
loves basketball and how much um basketball was was a
(21:44):
part of him. And really you can see he was
a very good teacher, and I think that was the
thing that he probably knew his whole career. But he retired.
I think he had like a realization, I've got such
a good teacher at teaching people things that I should
do it more. And I remember where we were at
(22:04):
to camp that was all like an offense camp, and
he was shown some guys some defense because I joke
a like, man, that's what That's what I want to
build this student. Next year of defense, next year, God,
(22:29):
think about it. That was the summer of two thousand nineteen.
There was no next year. Five months later, Kobe was gone.
We are two years removed now from his death, and
in so many ways, it is still surreal. In so
many ways, the shock still lingers. In so many ways,
(22:53):
it feels like that tragedy didn't really happen. We've done
our best in this series to give you a fresh
look at Kobe, a chance to see him and examine
him and judge him and remember him from a different perspective,
(23:14):
from several different perspectives. Always, though, there was one theme
at the core of this podcast, the drive that made
Kobe great. Everything was done to try to learn how
to become a better basketball player. Everything, everything, And so
when you have that point of view, then literally the
(23:35):
world becomes your library to help you to become better
at your craft. The players that had that passion but
weren't willing to commit their entire lives to doing that, right,
it's a choice. Right, you have other things, You have
a family, you have all these other things that you
have to do. The game can't really be your number
(23:58):
one priority. And so I was just looking at that like, man,
I'm this is gonna be fun. You saw a lot
of the young Mamba. You saw some of Kobe and
his crime. In this episode. You saw how Kobe mature,
how even he saw himself in a different way. You
might admire him, you might despise him, but it will
(24:22):
be impossible to forget it. And we appreciate you joining
us as we told this story. I Am Kobe is
a production of the Version Podcasts in association with I
(24:43):
Heart Radio. This season is written and hosted by me
Mike Sealskin. It's produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by
Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein, with editorial direction
from Scott Waxen. Editing, mixing and sound design by Mark Francis.
Stephen Thompkins is our production assistant. Our theme music is
(25:04):
Create Yourself by Grover Brown featuring Justin Starling. Find Create
Yourself wherever you stream music. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez
for fre Soans Sinking. Executive producers are Mark Francis and
Scott Waxman. Join the conversation about I Am Kobe on
social media on Twitter and Instagram. It's at diversion Pods
(25:29):
thanks to Orin Rosenbaum, Susan Cannavan and Jeremy Treatment the
eyebries before the son. They don't understand when I say
the blind is fun. Never clack you out even where
my work is done. If they're trying to black me,
I might heart someone throw the blood sweat and says
we part Sufi, stay tending in. Let it keep the
harus in. If they don't believe in themselves, gab vert
(25:49):
defend that at Sampa says, so on't selling, don't ask
my am. This the reason why I'm I'm wearing so
damn different the negatives. I can listen see me at
the tap you and listen where I'm a vote to
play like cash is see, I pay my dudes because
taxes gotta work. I think and grind ahead of his time.
So I'm saying that they made you. Don't tell them
(26:10):
you create yourself the best you finn watch us by
that time. You gotta snake clock, then break clock. Break
we create ourselves. Watch me, watch me to create myself.
Exact client signs up and create yourself. They nice and
(26:33):
ain't no hard create yourself. You gotta learn from the
great minds that we ain't lying. Tell them next game time.
This talent wasn't given, it was made the future. Any
time I could change better, tell them that I made
it back home. As I walked through the hearts of
the fame, I came from the valley of the Shadow
with death waiting for us. Some spoons don't hold your breath,
(26:54):
sat Town, sat train. But I did it with less.
I know one that to be. So there's nothing in
the guests, Yeah, there's nothing to guess. It's our times.
Tell them we up next. We don't got any regrests.
I did it with my soon hands, and we never
forgets my an. This the reason why my work so
damn different to the negatives. I can't listen see me
(27:14):
at the time. You can't listen for where, rebuild, reach shape,
give me your eye. You got to risk take do
it now. When I'm saying why braves, I'm saying that
they man. You don't tell them you create yourself on
the bench, you finn or watch us by it's by
that time. You gotta snake clock, then break clock, break
(27:35):
we create ourselves. Watch me clach watch then create myself.
Shack Clin signs up and create yourself. They're nice and
ain't go on create yourself. Gotta learn from the great minds. No,
we ain't lying. Tell them next anytime. Diversion podcasts
Host
Mike Sielski
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com