October 24, 2024 • 60 mins
Celebrity mentors Kelly Bensimon and Cheryl Burke are giving you a lesson in prenups! From prenups to postnups, infidelity clauses, why YOU need one and why they don’t have to cost a fortune.
Also, the good, the bad, the ugly when women make more than their partners.
Ready to find love again? Want dating advice?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I do part two as a one of a kind
experience in podcasting and love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
If you don't get right the first time, we're here
to help you get it right the next time.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Kelly ben Simone from
the Real Housewives of New York and I know firsthand
that love stories don't always have fairy tale endings, but
that doesn't mean.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You should give up on love.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Today, I'm going to be joined with another one of
our celebrity mentors. You know her as former pro dancer
for twenty six seasons on Dancing with the Stars, and
she's the host of the podcast Sex, Lies and Spray Tans.
Please welcome Cheryl Burke to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Hi Cheryl, Hi, how are you Kelly?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm great? Thank you? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
First of all, you're so beautiful. Your life drop dead? Thanks,
drop you dead. We have so much to talk about.
We have so much in common.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I know.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I read a little bit about you. I saw a
couple of your past interviews, so yes, we do have
a lot in common.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Actually, I mean you were a dancer, I was a model.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You have pretty long hair. I have pretty long hair.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I mean, if I really were to take if I
were to be real this, most of the hair is fake,
you know, but it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's fine, You're beautiful. We do have a lot in common.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
We've been we both have been through a lot of
difficult times in our past with relationships, with finding love.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So tell us a little bit about your.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Relationship and why you think that it didn't work out
or why you know it didn't work out.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just go backwards here.
So now right as of today, I am single and
celibate for the last three years, and I have definitely
found power in that. I used to be a serial dater,
so I always went from man to man to man,
never had maybe a couple days off, like I'm not
exaggerating whatsoever. And with my marriage to my ex husband,
(02:16):
you know, we actually met when I first started Dancing
with the Stars through his older brother who did Dancing
with the Stars back in season three. So that was
like in two thousand and seven, and I was very
new to this entertainment industry and it was just bad timing,
I guess too, because he was obviously still is, i'm assuming,
an actor and he started as a child, and I
(02:40):
was just at the height of the success of Dancing
with the Stars. So we were on tour. We did
two seasons a year, two tours a year, so I
was just like working all around the clock, barely had
a day off. And so we dated for a year
and then we reconnected about a decade later and started
dating and soon after got married. So and now not married.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right, So serial dater to getting married to not getting married.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So dating someone marrying.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Someone who was not in your financial bracket, right, I
don't know how how better to say it.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
We we just weren't I guess he wasn't necessarily working
right the time. Yeah, as much he was working, but
not as much.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Right, So that must have been really stressful because you
were traveling and your hours are crazy, and you're worth
a lot of new people.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And I kind of.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Knew what I was getting into, you know, like I
am that's just my personality, Like I am never going
to not make money. I think that comes from my mother,
who's rags to riches story, you know, and I've seen
her hustle, was raised with her hustle. So that's who
I am ultimately, and I am actually proud of that.
(03:54):
There's no shame with that for sure, And I knew
what I was marrying, so like I knew what I
was getting into financially. However, it did take a toll,
I would say more. Maybe I'm not going to speak
for him. I'm not here to bad mouth and whatsoever.
But I believe that there is this gender role right
where a man may feel a little emasculated when he
(04:18):
doesn't make the majority of the money, and I think
that may have taken a toll.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So this episode is a lot about prenups. Did you
guys have a prenup?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, And why did you get the prenup? Well, you know,
for obvious reasons. I mean I got a prenup. My
family actually they were very involved with that. They my
mother wanted you know, me to be protected. I also,
my family has some money and we had to protect
(04:50):
the family estate, but also for me as well. It clearly,
you know, I was the one making more money, so
my mom, you know, I owned a home and.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
There's just a lot of little details.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I don't think a lot of people know when it
comes to especially in California, you know, So I'm not
sure if this is true. What we could ask the professional,
who's about to be here soon? I hear that if
somebody plants a succulent actually on your property, they could
fight for your property if you guys divorce and without
(05:24):
a prenup, that is. But that was no easy conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Right, I was just going to ask that, how did
you approach that? You're like, let's go pumpkin picking and
talk prenups?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Like an ultimatum. Yeah, it was a full on ultimatum
and my prenup attorney. First of all, it's not cheap.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
It was.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
It consisted of like seventy to eighty five pages long,
of lots of words and lots of fine detail and
fine print. But this was something that my attorney suggested
was to make sure I hire him an attorney as well.
So that was definitely part of the deal. And I understood,
(06:07):
like it's all good, but I have to say that
it definitely it raised a lot of concerns, especially on
his behalf, but there was really not much to do.
Either we do this and we get married or we don't.
And it's pretty black and white.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
You know, you and I are so similar because I
also prepare to prenup for my ex fiance, and you know,
I had this amazing lawyer that just really wanted to
make sure that I was protected and my girls were protected.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yes, you have kids, so that's yes, I do.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, and just my you know, the opportunity for me
to make a lot of money in the future with
just real estate and working in a lot of different states.
I just wanted to make sure that I was going
to be safe. He was married twice before, he's got
a lot of kids, and so I just didn't want
you know, I was trying to be optimistic, but I
also needed to be protective of my own self. And
(07:08):
you know, it was interesting how he had the prenup
for a while and I was just always like, like
a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I was like, you can read it and sign it
whenever you want.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Did you guys, what was the conversation Like prior to that, there.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Wasn't a conversation. I just wasn't. I was like, here,
here's the prenup. It's coming to your way.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Did he know there was a prenup coming?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I mean I didn't.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Again, like it wasn't like pumpkins and prenups like you know,
It's like I literally went to I went to the
lawyer and then afterwards, I said, you know, oh, there's
going to be you know, a letter coming your way
and you just want to check it out, and you know,
see what the situation was. And it just really put
me off. It really put me off that someone wouldn't
(07:52):
want me, someone that wanted to marry me so badly
I wouldn't want to make sure that I was protected
and provide for that really really bothered me. I think
it really, I was just like what I was like,
I'm I'm like an on and off switch.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Like I just am like the mint.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
If I find if I feel like any fear, I'm
like fight or flight, I'm like.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Nope, yeah, no, I hear you're closed. I'm so used
to that fight or flight or freeze feeling. It's insane.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, you know, I just wonder though, Like I remember
my you know, the conversation. Obviously it was like there
was you know, questions of do I not trust you
know him, and all of that, and obviously you know,
this is separate from love. Money does not equal love,
and that is something that I think it's hard to
and still is for me to this day. You know,
(08:44):
back in the day, I thought I can control people
with my money, and you know, obviously that is not
the case it and that has a lot to do
also with the way I was raised. Maybe I don't know.
I mean, I do know. I've been in therapy my
whole life. But at the end of the day, like
I and I guess how the lines can be blurred
and I understand and I don't understand, but I can
(09:05):
have a little bit of a compassion, you know, for
that other person. But for someone to just call off
an engagement because you're wanting to protect your assets and
you're it's something that we don't get our money handed
to us, like we work our asses off money, and
I know it ain't easy, and I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Thank you for saying that. Yeah, thank you for saying that.
There's no brand of money Tree, no house wives everywhere.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Regardless if I come from. But my parents are very
protective over I am.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Well over eighteen, I'm forty years old, and I also
have my own ego and pride, like I'm not going
to ask mommy and Daddy for anything I never have, right.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So it's interesting because a lot of people are, you know, like, Okay,
we're talking you're talking about prenups like Kelly, and they're like,
is it just for you know, women in their like
forties and fifties, and it's there was a study that
millennials forty seven percent of millennials are getting prenups.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Absolutely, and so they should.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Everyone should get a prenup if if, if it's worth it,
because it's not worth it if you guys are both
not you know, you're just But if.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You've made a little money.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
There was twenty thousand dollars That money at twenty years old,
if you put it away for yourself could be a
lot of money. It's you know, so you know, I
think that it's just really I think it's really important.
You know, Listen, I made the mistake. I should have
talked to my ex earlier.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I did. I made a mistake. I did. I made
a mistake.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I should have had like a more open conversation with him.
I just have never had an open conversation with anyone
about finances outside of my father. And so he's deceased,
so he's not available. Hi Dad, love you say mom? Hi.
So you know, I I should have probably had more
(10:50):
of a you know, different narrative, but I am actually
glad that I didn't have one at the beginning, because
I may have. I may have been like, well, think
about it, or he might have like maybe taught said, oh,
you don't worry about it. We're gonna have a traditional marriage,
and I'm gonna be like, Okay, so if we get
divorced or what if I die, I'm taking care of
(11:10):
your kids.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It's not comfortable to have these conversations.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
And then, by the way, it's the easiest thing to
do is not to have it, right, Like I mean really,
but then at the end of the day you start
to understand that, okay, well, without the communication, things are
going to either blow up or have cause resentment. And
I think this prenup definitely caused resentment within our marriage absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So what about the press.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
You've been through the press and it hasn't been easy
for you. So what did you think about the press,
you know, talking about your prenup.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Well, let me first say that because of the prenup,
my divorce was pretty easy, right, So there was like
that is the positive of it all, Like it was
very lean and clear as far as what was happening
and the next steps moving forward. So that in itself
saved a lot of headache and stress. Now, as far
as press goes, I mean, I mean, I've been on
(12:15):
Dancing with the Stars. I was on it since two
thousand and seven, never and I did twenty six seasons
of it, and I went, I mean, I've been on.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
The press for my weight.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I've been on the press for my all of my
twenty six partners I've hooked up with, which is all
a lie, right, like no, not even I mean Wayne
Newton maybe, but kidding, but like I love it. It's
this was this too shall pass like it's so, I mean,
there's gonna be bigger and better news soon.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
So like that was what I was.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
It's not so much that it was more like for me,
I get affected still and I can't wait till the
day I don't, but I do get I care about
what other people think of me, and I'm not even
gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Like this is yeah, this is what I do.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
My my my publicist, you know, when he broke the
news to the press and talked about the prenup, you know,
I was like, you know, I've had such bad press,
Like I mean, I get great press from my work,
but for my housewives life. It's like you're crazy, you're nuts,
you're stupid, you're an idiot, You're this, you're that, you're awful.
And I literally was like, he was like, shut your
(13:21):
phone off and just go to bed. And I was
actually getting a chronic while we were organizing this, and
I'm like, I'm serendipitous. I'm like I'm getting a colonic
time to time to sever the ties. And uh so
he was just like, shut your phone off, and so
I did. And in the morning, people were like clapping
and I would I was getting like all these clapping emojis,
(13:42):
and I'm just like, oh my, oh my.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Gosh, like did you not say what was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I'm just so used to people saying that I'm nuts
and crazy and stupid and idiot and awful and ugly
and fat and whatever it is, and that I you know,
I was just shell shocked.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And then I thought to myself, oh my god, like
I could actually help people like navigate these waters because
to your point, you know, it's just the transparency is
just it.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
It makes everything.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's like everyone talks about like you know, your partner's
your best friend open up to them. Well okay, so
you're opening up to them on all these different levels
and telling them all these things, but then when it
comes to your finances, it's like, oh, just whatever happens, devil,
make care. And you know I I I'm so grateful
for him, and I'm just so grateful for the press
(14:36):
to be so proactive and supportive of me.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It really meant a lot.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not shocked by that, just because, like,
especially in today's age, I think maybe back in maybe
the renaissance ages, people would have been like, who are you,
especially as a woman, you know, But I totally am
with you. I think this is why I'm People are
like you overshare and I'm like okay, but I know
I'm helping somebody feel like they're not alone regardless, And
I think that's why, you know, I have chosen to
(15:04):
talk about it with respect still to my ex obviously
about my everything. I've talked about my mental health. I've
talked about my sexual assault situation, being molested as little girl,
like I have. I've been an open book and I
know that I when I was a little girl going
through that, I wish I could actually hear someone else
who had a platform talk about it as well.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I love that I'm learning, I'm trying. I have a
therapist now, which i've I've had a little on and
off therapist. But I'm like, okay, how do I be
a queen? And she's like, no more, try to be
a queen, Kelly. She's like this, you need to get
raw and real, and like, what is it that's making
you attracted to these kind of men? And why would
you even put yourself in a position like that? You
(15:46):
have You've raised two girls on your own, You've survived,
you know, the wrath of you know, wildness for so
many years and still made it through the other side.
Like why would you put your thoughtslf through this? And
like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well? Why what was your answer? Why do you attract
men like that?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You said it in one of your in one of
your articles, I think it was. I think it was
like online you just said, like you picked, You're the
wrong picker.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Yeah, no, I'm a bad picker because of the abuse
I dealt with as a little girl, that my definition
of a man wasn't necessarily stable, right, So my mother
and father divorced when I was two. My very first
memory as a kid was seeing my father with another woman,
and then it just then I got molested when I
was about six years old, when to testify againstim at nine,
(16:32):
and then from then on my whole high school career,
I dated abusive men because that was my normal, right
was my normal was that there was no normalcy as
far as what a healthy relationship is. And when there
was a good man that came or across my path,
I was turned off by him because that was not
something I was used to. But this is why I'm
(16:53):
choosing to be single and celibate, because I need to
retrain my brain and that takes time.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, I mean I think that that's you. And you're
sober as well.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yes, for six years.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I mean that's so good because you're we're talking about
the transparency. We're talking about that clarity, and now you're
able to like see what is good for you and
for your life, and.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Which is also really hard because I also left the
show for similar reasons. Like when I'm when I chose
to be sober, my I became so clear that I
was no wonder I was drinking and numbing you.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Know, and were you numbing because of the pain from
the from the.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Pain in general?
Speaker 4 (17:33):
If I never felt my feelings like it was and
when you don't feel your feelings though, it's easily said
than done, for sure, And I'm still currently I'm a
work in progress. I'm not perfect intellectually, I get it,
But when it comes down to it, I am a
professional number, even if it's not through alcohol or whatever. Like,
I can numb through work and I can be so
busy if I want to that I don't have to
(17:54):
ever face my feelings. And I think that is an
actual in society today, what we're all doing, to be
quite honest.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh my god, I hope not doing that. I work
so much.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
How busy are you, Cherry?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Maybe I'm doing that, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
One thing at a time, a forever thing.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Like moment with you. I'm gonna pay you a hard
dollars when we're done.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
No, I don't need your money, girl.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
What do you What do you think of the double
standard for women and for prenups.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
I don't like I haven't really thought too much about it.
I really don't think it's our problem. I think it's
the person who's receiving the prenup, which if it's the woman,
then it's the person she's marrying, and it depends on
that person's ego. Like, I don't know, I think people
are very I think especially now, like I said earlier,
people congratulate you for it. I think it's important to
(18:41):
uh protect yourself regardless of who it is, a woman,
a man, whatever. If you don't go by any gender,
so be it. Like this is just life and we
work too hard for us to give that away.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's insane.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean, it's just like the whole thing is just
you know, I actually took I mean, I'm not celibate,
but I did take the summer off. And I have
so many of my friends asking, you know, oh, when
are you gonna start dating again? And I actually started
going on a couple of.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Dates, which was like I hate that question.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
It was just really it was really awful.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I'm like it doesn't you know, they're like, oh, she's
just like would someone say like kick the dust off
or something.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I'm like, all right, I'm sorry, what dust?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, plane break, so there's no dust anywhere near me
or around me or perfectionism.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Perfectionism is attact just like mine. That's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Do you think do you think the prenupts are unromantic?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
No, it's real. And I wish if I could have
done it all over again. I wish I was because
like anybody, I'm sure and I think, like you, I
don't don't want to speak for you, but it was
uncomfortable for me to have this conversation and we went
to couple's therapy the moment we got back together the
second time around, like the moment, like that was a requirement,
it was non negotiable, no matter, you don't go to it.
(20:00):
For me, I don't believe in just going to therapy
when there's problems. You go before there's problems, because then
you can really, you know, have those conversations because you're
still at the honeymoon phase and god knows how long
that lasts before you know, you talk about marriage. And look,
there was a lot of red flags for me, and
I think selfishly, I wanted to see if I could
get married. I don't know if I was ready either,
(20:22):
you know. And it was like a production. I made
it literally, I made it like a Dancing with the
Star's scene, like I worked with Mindy Weiss. We tried
to micromanage her. It was a whole thing like this
was there's just so many red flags.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh my god. I also had red flags.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And it's interesting you say that because now, like looking back,
I am saying like, Okay, you know, I probably my
own self was probably telling my myself like, if he
doesn't sign the pre nup, you're gonna be fine because
he doesn't really want to be with you. My you know,
my red flags were just you know, to be hundred
(21:00):
percent transparent. And this is not to be a huge dig,
but his his life with his ex wives was so
messy and it was such a distraction and I just
didn't have anything to do with it, and I just could.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
It was just messy.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
What did your kids think about him?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
My kids, my kids, you know, you know, I'm so lucky, Cheryl,
so lucky. I just have a really great kids. And
they you know, they've been through a lot. I mean
they've been through they've been through the you know, Housewives,
which is really really not the show was hard, but
just like you know how some of the housewives can
just be like just denamous. They're twenty four and twenty
(21:39):
six and they've just like grown to be like such
amazing humans and I'm so proud of that that you,
oh my god, thank you appreciate that. So some of
the red flags were just like you know, messiness with
you know, with his his exes.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Did he ever sign a prenup with them?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
He tried to post up with one of them. But
you know, I just was that was just messy and
it was just too much. I didn't want anything to
do with it. And that was something because I love children,
and I'm like, if you can't get along with me,
you can't get along with anybody. I mean, I am
the most easy going person, but if I don't like something,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Er good for you.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Like we all have that, right, We all have an intuition.
The question is if you follow it or not? You know,
and you try and release control, because we can't control
anybody but ourselves.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Actually, I think that because I travel so much, and
you know, I work in all these different cities and
I travel a lot, and I have a very unusual
work schedule, I think that, you know, he kind of
thought that I wasn't paying attention and that what you know,
that it was just kind of like, Okay, I actually
was paying attention.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I just was like not interested. I was like, yeah,
I don't like that kid.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
If I can handle two, if I can raise two
kids and provide for two kids and not have all
I've said this million times, like I don't mind if
you have baggage, like you know, shebaiton a little gooch,
you know, like the Farrel edition.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
It's not like emotional baggage.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
First of all, I don't have the keys for a
storage locker. I'm not going to the storage locker. I'm like,
this is just not my vibe. I I can't do that.
It's not happening.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And he worked.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Did he make money?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
He worked?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
No, he worked, he weren't so you know he worked,
but you know I was.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I mean, I I just have the more of more
of an earning potential. Let's talk Let's talk about that
again too, about like just being with men who you
know married to men, being with men who who you
know make less, like because I have done, I've.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Only been with men that make less. And I think
that's my issue with control. So I don't know if
I could ever. I mean, I'm trying to change that
because I don't. I think that there is a psychological
issue there that I've been again working on with my therapist.
But I am a controlling woman obviously, and I am
and this is a pattern for me, right, So I've
(24:05):
never not even I've never dated anybody who was more
successful than me.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So I've only dated a couple younger guys. The majority
of the handful of guys that I've dated have been
extremely successful. So except the namic one of them was
younger and he was like starting off in finance and
he had an amazing job. But most of them my
(24:41):
serious guys. I mean it's different, like guys you hang
out with. That's different, but like you know, real boyfriends.
They were all really really successful, but they you know,
someone when amen younger, And you know, it's funny because
when I was with them, I would be like, you know,
I would be so I was like so like attracted
(25:01):
to the love and having the best time, but like
in the back of my head, I was always thinking, like,
you know, I'm provided for my kids, I've done this
all this on my own.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Who is going to take care of me?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
And sometimes it gets exhausting, Cheryl to be like constantly
like sometimes I feel like the little hamster on the wheel,
just like.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, I can do it.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I can do it.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You know, I can do these places. I can get
this next deal, I can bring this. I can do that.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
On my head, I know, I get it.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I mean, this transition from this being on the show
and having consistent work too then choosing not to be
on it has been It is still hard. It's hard,
you know, right, But going back to the reason why
I think for me, I thought I could. I thought
that if I made more, I was more successful, that
they wouldn't cheat on me. And that's the big fear
of mine, is infidelity.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Oh my gosh, that's really funny, because you know it's
so funny is because I would say, like, whatever if
like we get into a fight or whatever, and they'd
be like, oh, I just met this twenty three year old.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I was like, oh, son them a book and I'll
sign it. Awful. I'm awful. I could be awful.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I know I'm not, but awful no.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I I hear.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I mean, I look at hear what I've been saying,
Like I'm a full on control freak. Like I would
like to say I'm recovering, but I'm not recovering yet
I'm still there.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That's why I'm not the way the way.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
The book that I was going to send to them
was called it Can Make You Hot, So wow.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
It's worse.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I'm sure they would find that I can't.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I can't make I'm sorry. I'm just being honest. I'm like,
I just I just need to be transparent.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Do you think this.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Stereotype of men needing to make money will ever go away?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's just not true.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
So people could still live in the renaissance ages, that's fine,
but I mean everyone evolves and so does this world,
and that honestly just isn't true anymore. So my I think,
and I also know that, like my mother was the
breadwinner in both of her marriages, so I don't know
anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's interesting because like my daughters, you know, they're twenty
four and twenty six, and they're you know, some of
their friends are single parents.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And my youngest daughter.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
She's like, Mommy, you're single, but you're not like you
were divorced but separated, but you're not really like a
divorce mom. Like, no, I'm not marry that means I said.
She goes, well, we're not raised like that, because you're
like the mom and the dad. We weren't really raised
like that. But she's like, other moms are not like you,
and they are looking for these men and desperate for
these men. And when I go on these dates, these
guys are like they want to know what vacation were
(27:32):
going on. I'm like, vacation, like I don't have timeification Like,
I'm like, wait a minute, you just asked me. You
were just complaining about a woman going on vacation with you,
and then now you're mad at me because I'm working
so I can't see you until Thursday.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
How long was your break from your breakup with your
ex that you were going to marry to dating?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
So we broke up at the end end of June.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, and then when did you start dating again?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I'm just recently in the past, like a couple of minutes,
got it?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
No, I like, I'm not looking for anybody. I am
first of all, the fact that I'm alone, like I
live alone with my friend Siet. I'm like, and I
love this life too much. My therapist is like, I'm
a little worried about you. It's been three years, and
I'm like, listen, you know, for every narcissist you date,
supposedly you need to give back to yourself.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Like two years.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
This is from doctor Romney, and I'm like, well, I
still got a couple more years.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Like I'm so if you can't drink and you can't
and you're not doing to have sex, what about like dance.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Lessons I've retired, remember, I know, but it's a little
dirty dancing.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I mean I could teach you it's a door but
er no, I'm talking about you and your boyfriend or
whoever your day.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Have like poor let it's like hideous.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Please I would love that, but no, but you don't
want what about like just like.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
I have zero interest in dating. I'm not looking for anyone.
I am definitely I know I'm looking for me at
the moment. Like I'm currently trying to figure out my
identity was so outside of me. The show was my identity.
Everything that was so not uh, something that you could
definitely just take.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Out of my life.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I don't want that feeling ever again in my life.
Like I want to be able to find happiness within myself.
And let me tell you, with a lot of the
stuff that I've I guess not dealt with. It's all
coming up right now at the moment, and so I
still have a lot to work on within myself before
I even am interested in dating. I've never been on
a dating app. I have zero interest, none of it.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I actually went on dating app the summer and I
talked about in my last podcast, and my housewives's nemesis
end up dating him.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So that was hideous.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Is your housewife's nemesis.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm not going to mention her.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Okay, no need.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
To have a certain age.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Anyway, back to the show, pubs, let's talk about setting
me up.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Let's get serious, you know, like now that I'm dating. Oh,
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I had my time, took a summer off, I'm studying
Texas life. I mean, I'm dating, but like I want
to date with intention.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Oh okay, so then you should get rid of the
person you're talking to first, then we can talk.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Are you into dancers?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I mean I don't know how to dance, but I
would learn how to dance.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Opposites a tract? Okay, tell me what what are like?
What what are.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
The physical features that you want versus what type of
personality traits are you looking for?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
I would like a head, shoulder, sneeze, and toes.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, nowadays you never know, No what am.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I looking for? I'm looking for? You know?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Actually it's funny because I don't really have like a
specific body type, like my kids are, like, you don't
really have a type. I've dated blondes, I've dated brunettes.
I've dated shorter.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Do they have to be fit?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
No, I've dated like some some chubbies. I've dated some
like lean guys. I've dated like yeah, I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
How about personality traits? Is it okay if he was
married before?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yes, just as long as doesn't not messy, Just as
long as there's no like I hate my ex wife.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
She's calling me every day.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
It's like, you don't hate your ex wife, you want
to talk to her if she's calling you every day?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Are you avoidant or anxious attachment or secure attachment?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
These are really intense questions. Can I write these down?
This's like an SAT question for like romance. Oh my god,
I am I think that I When I love, I like,
really I have a lot of energy. I mean, you're
you're talking to me, I'm like literally gonna leap out
of the out of the screen.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
But like when it comes do you run away from committed?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Really?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Are you scared? Or do you attached? Like do you
like I'm anxious attachment.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I'm like a wallaby.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Joeyan like woo, yeah, okay, so you're so it supposedly
statistics say I could be wrong here, but my therapist
said this that anxious and avoidant always most of the
time end up together.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And my ex was avoidant and I'm very anxious.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So so I mean all of those I have to
actually look up all those different terms. I do not
know your your Your emotional intelligence is a twelve and
mine is a preschoolers.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So I've been in therapy since I was five for
obvious reasons. So that's why we just started.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I'm going to talk to my therapist, like, there's some
words I learned.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Do you like?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I'm not sure. She's very nice. She's actually so nice.
She's like very warm with me.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, So what have you learned from yourself from being single?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Well, the whole identity thing, you know. I said this
on my during my goodbye speech with Tyra Banks when
she was hosting the show a couple of years ago,
and I was like this show has been my identity,
and I'd like to say that it has now changed,
because that for me was worse than my divorce was
when I retired from the show, because it was a
(32:43):
part of my life since I moved to La Like
I went from Harlem, you know, being a starving competitive
ballroom dancer with my partner slash boyfriend, and it was
not a great healthy relationship whatsoever, to not even having
a voice, to then having my own voice. And I
still credit the show to this day for helping me
with just finding my own voice, but then also that
(33:06):
it's not my identity, you know, and having to separate
that knowing that really the only that when people say
you make me feel complete, that's a cracish like only
you can make yourself feel complete, and that starts with
self love, self care and prioritizing yourself and being selfish
but in a good way, and all of that is
(33:27):
what I'm currently learning.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Oh my god, you're such a thoughtful person.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I love that, and it's entirely just a beautiful I
love her, just a beautiful human. Well, so are you,
And I really appreciate that and I appreciate your honesty.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Let's see what have I learned.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I I've learned that sleeping in my bed alone is okay.
I've learned that I actually really kind of like myself.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I used to like not like myself.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I used to be like, like everything that everyone's saying
is is going through my head and I am.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
All those things.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
And I walk down the street, I would be like
one of those people that's like, you know, I would
see people and they.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Would like pop up, be like you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I hate you because it's just like social media came
out when I first started, so like that's just all
I thought, and so I was just constantly in a
sea of insecurity. And recently in the past, like I
don't know, I've had this crazy, wild awakening just you know,
with all this new responsibility for myself and I had
(34:33):
to move out in an apartment and try to find
an apartment within a day and just really like taking
control of my life overnight. I like felt just feel
very very very proud of myself, which I never have ever.
And it just feels really really good to feel proud,
really good awesome.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I mean, like talk about resilience right, like I mean
fight flight or freeze to its finest what name three
things about yourself that you love.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
My energy, my kindness and thoughtfulness towards others, and my
ability to see the best in things.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Now, name three physical traits you love about yourself that
you love.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I really like my hair, I really, I really. I
hate my sorrisis.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
No, that's not part of it. That wasn't the question.
Two more things, come on, two more.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Okay, I really like my hair. My eyes look fired today.
They're green, they do so I like those. And I
love my teeth.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Look at your cheekbones. You look snatched girl like. I
would love to have your face structure.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. That was really
nice and that was a nice exercise. I really appreciate that.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Sorry to jump jump to another topic. I feel like
we're like on like prenup ad D here, but what
is what?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Why are they so expensive? Why are these preanups so expensive?
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Well, I mean think about it. You're actually it's not
that expensive. If you put everything into perspective, it's worth
every single penny, especially if you're trying to save your
life savings and you know whomever is attached to you,
it's actually worth every penny to be quite honest. I
don't regret it whatsoever. You know, why is its expensive
because they can they can't charge that much because there's
not a lot of people that work in this business.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Right exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
All right, guess what we are going to bring are
guest the CEO and founder of Hello Prenup to talk
more about all of this.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Hello, Hi, Julia.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
So nice to see you both. Kelly. I also love
your hair prenu.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
That's what we're just going to call you from now.
I'm prenup fort the Julia call me.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Call me whatever you want, Kelly.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Said, Hello prenup, question mark or exclamation point or nothing.
Speaker 5 (37:07):
It's nothing, but I think point is great.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I think so too.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, it's like, Hello, peenup call me anytime.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Yeah, no, exactly exactly, visit helloprenup dot com anytime.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I love that, Julia. So we're talking all things prenup obviously.
You know, Cheryl and I have both had some incredible
journeys with our own prenups, which have been you know,
I'm so happy that I, you know, created prenup and Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Is for her past divorce. Why are these prenups so expensive?
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Well, they don't have to be you know, I think
that number one. If you're going the traditional route and
you're each hiring independent attorneys, that's fantastic. Obviously, that's not
the least expensive way to go about it, right, attorneys
have of high hourly rates and a lot of times
if you don't walk into that engagement with an understanding
(38:07):
of what you're looking for, there's going to be a
lot of negotiation. Through a service like Hello, prenup. You know,
we have flat rate pricing. We have flat rate pricing
for the prenup alone, and then when you add on
attorneys in forty five states, right, So there are ways
to get a prenup that are affordable inaccessible to all.
And that's you know, kind of the goal of my
company and mission.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
What does that look like? What's successible mean like money
whise range?
Speaker 5 (38:33):
Yeah, so it's five hundred and ninety nine dollars to
use the platform, and then for representation with an attorney
it's six hundred and ninety nine dollars. So ostensibly a
couple can get a full prenup with two lawyers for
under two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Awesome, Wow, what is the difference between a prenup and
a post up and our post nups?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, what are post now?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Are they? Do they really work?
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Prenups should have worked alone.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Well, sometimes people get don't get a prenup and then
they get a post up.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Oh, got it exactly, So you know, post ups are fantastic.
The main difference is a prenup has to be signed
before you get married. If you do not get a
prenup or you don't you start the prenup process, but
you don't sign it before you get married. You can
still get a post up if you have the option.
(39:24):
A prenup is definitely more desirable. They're upheld more, they're
more likely to be enforced. Some states are you know,
questionable on whether or not they'll enforced post ups, whereas
I think the vast majority of states full enforced prenups.
And one of the things that's so great though about
post ups is let's say you've been married for a
(39:45):
period of time and you don't have a pre you
didn't get a prenup. You can get a postup. You
can realign and make sure that you're both you know,
you have the same expectations. Sometimes things change in marriages too.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Right.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
Let's say this is a second marriage and you didn't
get a prenup, but when off you starts a business, Well,
let's sit down and talk about how that business should
be held. Is that ours if we get a divorce
in the future, or is that mine? Post up allows
you to reassess and realign or.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
If, like all of a sudden, your partner makes more
money than you. Yeah, are they allowed to do that?
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Like? Can they?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Well?
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Absolutely? And I think that it's if life changes or
you know, if you know, you have kids and one
party decides to stay home, that's an opportunity to say,
all right, now I'm staying home, I'm not earning income,
so I want to make sure that we reassess what
we originally agreed to in our prenup where everything was
(40:46):
going to be yours. I need to do that I'm protected, right,
And so that's where you know, a post up, which
is in some states it depends on which state you're in,
is a modification to a prenup can be really beneficial.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
What should be in a pre nup?
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Well, you can contract almost anything you want. You can't
contract to children, so you can't contracts. Yes, you can
have succulents. I've never seen anyone contract.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Is that true what I said earlier about if they
plant a succulent in California?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Are you in California?
Speaker 5 (41:20):
I'm not in California, but hello, prenup operates in California
forty five states.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Is it true that if they plan a succulent, like,
let's say I own the property and we did not
get a prenup. Is it true that they can after
a certain amount of years, that the person who planted
the succulent, your partner, can actually fight and say that
this is his property.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
I think the point that examples trying to make is
that they now have earned some interest in that property.
I think without a prenup, what you're doing is you're
leaving it up to chance.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Correct SHAREFF calls bush, and they favor the person who
doesn't make as much money.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I really believe that.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
What about what about dogs for babies? Are the range?
Everybody is accident.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
She's gotten a huge fight about it, like it was crazy.
I wish it was in the prenup, But he got
me the dog when we were already married.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
Head clauses are really really popular.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Ain't pet clause Okay, Yeah, you can.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Decide on your pet custody. You can decide who's paying
for what for the pet, and I think just aligning
on those expectations is really important. What I always like
to remind people is, like I always hear all like,
prenups aren't romantic, Like it means you're planning for either
childbirth exactly.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
I like, if I know, I was waiting for you
to be like true story, I've never had a child.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
I can only assume I've had two.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
I've had a child, and I totally agree childbirth is
not romantic. But you know, neither is the fact that
if you don't have a prenup, you still have a
prenup because it's just state legislature that is deciding how
your assets get divided in divorce or death. So why
are you leaving that up to chance? Why are you
leaving that up to in your case, Cheryl, the state
(43:03):
of California?
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Right?
Speaker 5 (43:05):
Why are we not deciding what is best for us
as a couple before we get married?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Is it protocol?
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Like I have my attorney advice that I get at
an attorney for my ax. Is that something that's like
protocol or not protocol?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
But is that normal?
Speaker 5 (43:20):
Yeah, I think it's completely normal, and I think it's
very important to get legal advice. In certain states you
are required to have an attorney for certain things, like
in California, if you want to waive or modify spousal support,
you must have an attorney. The other states you must
have an attorney for, you know, again, certain conditions, And
I think it's always advisable. Like if you're entering into
a prenup and you are not sure what the default
(43:44):
law would be if you didn't enter into the prenup,
you don't know what those state requirements are, you should
get legal advice.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
What about infidelity? How does that play out?
Speaker 3 (43:54):
And no one cares.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I don't care about Carey anymore.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
So I'm the person involved cares the person who was
being cheated on. Definitely, it's it's like, unfortunately, it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Like, oh he cheated on me. It's like no, no, no,
that's not okay.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
No, it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Can you do an infidelity clause? Yes, I guess not
New York, but you couldn't.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
You can not in California either.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
It depends on what state you're in, And infidelity clauses
can be included in certain states. What I like to
remind people is often like a prenup is just as
much an emotional document as it is a legal one. Right,
So just the mere act of including an infidelity clause
in there, it means you had that conversation and you said, look,
(44:39):
I'm okay with this or I'm not okay with this,
but I'm not.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Just morals, values and beliefs when you're marrying, and like,
that's just like an obvious like, I mean, what would
an infidelity clause look like?
Speaker 5 (44:51):
Exactly, Well, let's back up to your morals and beliefs. Right,
that's the point of a.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Pre cheated on me. He's a joke, he gets nothing.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
It's important.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Can add where a lot of cut their penis off
or that is that okay?
Speaker 5 (45:03):
In the that is illegal and you can be like Lorena, Yeah,
I mean you can define infidelity and you can define
a financial penalty for infidelity. It's not enforceable in all states,
but yeah, they're very popular clauses, I think.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
So if you cheat on me, you get ten thousand dollars,
So hello, that's going to be way more than that girl,
I would hope, meaning like.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Or you have to give me a million dollars. This
is like you choose, I think I think a lot
of here's a succulent.
Speaker 5 (45:46):
People are often afraid, you know, they're afraid to talk
about a preno because they feel like it's scary.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
It's scary.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
Yeah, and I and I understand why. I mean, Cheryl,
you've had one when you were going into this process, Like,
how did you approach it with your fiance at the time.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
I mean, it was there was no right way to
do it, And to be honest, I wish I would
have had I wish we would have discussed this more
therapy when we were in therapy. But yeah, this was
a discussion that also my parents had for them as well,
like this was important and again this shouldn't have gotten
it shouldn't. I mean, of course it's emotional, absolutely, and
(46:27):
I have to say when it was time to sign everything,
it wasn't necessarily the easiest, like with we had someone
there obviously to what are they called again when when
they're observing they have to be there too? Sure yea yeah,
and it was quite like intense, you know, but uh, yeah,
(46:48):
there's just the sooner the better, and try to talk
about it before you hand them the prenup.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Ideally, I think too, Like, you know, my father, he
passed away a year and a half ago, and I
think that if my father had met my ex, which
they did, he would have said, if you you know,
a what are your intentions with my daughter? Not to
sound like all Jane Austen, but you know, what are
your intentions? And if you do have any intentions, you're
(47:16):
going to sign a prenum because I am the daughter
of a lawyer, and I think that would have voutedly
been a better time. Yeah, so that would have probably been.
But you know, like when Julie, how do you like,
how do you go? I mean I did not talk
about it in a with my therapist. I literally just
went to this amazing matrimonial lawyer in New York who
(47:40):
is unbelievable, and she was such a maternal figure and
was like, I'm very she was very very worried about me,
very worried, and she was like, here's here, we have
to lay this out. And she's like, if anything happened
to you, he could get all this money and your kids,
you know, it would be it wouldn't be good. And
I got really, really freaked out, and I was I like,
(48:04):
I literally turned me off the minute that I found
out that I wasn't being provided and protected that I
would have potentially been exploited.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
And so what are your thought?
Speaker 1 (48:14):
What are your How could I have? How could I
have changed that? How could I have not saying that
I want to go back or do anything, but like, like,
I made a mistake, I'd handled it the wrong way.
So how could I have Like, you know, for the
for everyone out there, for like the young you know,
millennials at forty seven percent, they're getting prenups, Like, how
do you have that conversation in a way that's like palatable?
Speaker 5 (48:36):
Yeah, okay, well I would say third date, second glass
of wine.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Three date.
Speaker 5 (48:44):
Wow, third date, second glass of wines.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
On your age, right, Like depends on what you're looking for,
because like listen, when I eventually date, I'm in my
I'm forty, Like yes, absolutely, third date.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
But people in their twenties same.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
Yeah. No, I mean I think it's the sentiment, right,
you're having a conversation about what you want out of life.
I mean, if you're in your twenties and you're just
kind of dating for sport and you are not intending
to get married. You're not serious, right, It's obviously a
very different conversation, and you should wait until you're ready
(49:15):
you're in that space in life. But I do think
that you know, if you are dating because you want
to find your person and you want to get married,
especially as women, I mean, why should we be embarrassed
to bring up the conversation, right?
Speaker 4 (49:30):
I think it's like it's kind of like I was
scared for me about his reaction, like he was, you know,
and that wasn't so much about like scared. I also
wonder I wish I would have done this. I wish
I would have educated myself about the state I was
living in and what that required even before, Like what like,
let me just read through this textbook of information or
(49:51):
have someone explain it to me first of all, what
a prenup is, why I would want to get a prenup,
what that exactly means, and what does it mean for
the state of California. Like, I think that is so
important to educate yourself first. Because I had I'm still
finding out things that I never knew.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
And that's exactly what this podcast is all about, is
people looking for love and that's what we're trying to do.
We're trying to educate and you know, show that there's
there are solutions and that you know, you don't have
to be worried about protecting yourself and you know you
can provide them.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
It's like they always say, like men are supposed to
provide and protect, Well, they haven't for me, so I'm
going to do it for myself.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
Yeah, the regardless of the gender, you have to protect yourself.
Speaker 5 (50:38):
Yeah. And I think information is power, right, Yes, you know,
the fear of the unknown is oftentimes the issue when
it comes to the prenups, especially when you're talking Cheryl
about state law and educating yourself and really understanding what
goes into a prenup and what the process is. I mean,
one of the reasons we started Hello Prenup was because
(51:00):
we wanted to offer free information so that anybody could
go to the website, choose their state and read all
about it. Right, there's no barrier to entry, and I
think it's really important to educate yourself but also to
feel empowered by the process. The process should be one
that is, you know, you're both participating. It's not one
(51:23):
person serving a prenup. On the other you're each protecting
your interests. I think in the case where there's family money,
you know, there's a lot of pressure from parents. But
I think that's an opportunity in the conversation of bringing
up a prenup to say this is really important for
my family, right, and you're relieving the pressure from yourself.
(51:44):
I think in.
Speaker 4 (51:45):
Case also though, the family should have their own trusts, right, like,
so that they're protected in general, right.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Well, sometimes no trust don't take a second, so it
takes a while to put put a trust together. And
that's actually what happened to me too. That's another reason
I had to get a prenupp. But so the prenups
are not just for the person, they're also for the relationship.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Can you just talk a little bit more about that, Julia.
Speaker 5 (52:10):
Yeah, absolutely, So a prenup is an opportunity. It's an
opportunity to have those life conversations and set yourself up
by building that foundation. A prenup is an opportunity to
have those life conversations. So depending on where you are
in life, it's like do we want to have kids,
(52:30):
like do we want to retire at forty? And like
travel the world? Do we want a white pick it fence,
or you know, if you have children from a prior marriage,
are you going to financially support them? And what does
that look like for our marriage? So it's an opportunity
to have these really important life conversations. And I think
(52:52):
it's also important to remember that, you know, all marriages
end the either end in death or divorce.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I think that sen's forever.
Speaker 5 (53:00):
Nothing's forever. So let's be really sober about that fact,
and like.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Yeah, we're taking time bomb. We're all gonna die folks.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
Sorry, So do you do you have any like statistics
about like prenups, like helping people not get divorced, or
do you have any any any kind of statistics that
can Yeah?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
I like that.
Speaker 5 (53:21):
With that, I think one that's really important is forty
seven percent of millennials are who are married or engaged
have a prenup.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I know, I said that that's crazy.
Speaker 5 (53:35):
And what that tells me, like, millennials are getting married
a little bit later in life, right, They're getting married
in their early thirties. By the time they get married me, Yeah,
we have assets to pretend millennial. Yeah, amazing me too.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
In it.
Speaker 5 (53:51):
It looks like a millennial. Okay, definitely, I.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Act like one, Oh, really, what is that supposed to mean?
You know, spirited, young, spirited.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
You have assets to protect, maybe you have debt, right,
maybe you start.
Speaker 3 (54:06):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Right, yeah right.
Speaker 5 (54:10):
Domestically, it's really important to you know, to pay attention
to those facts and protect yourself. And I think that
millennials get that, and they're also looking to like not
do what their parents did. Twenty four percent of millennials
have divorced parents. Right, we've seen what divorce does to
(54:30):
our families, Like, let's not repeat that in our own marriages.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Can you name just.
Speaker 4 (54:35):
Three qualities as to what happens, like three things that
are just not that could happen if you don't have
a prenap just scare people, please, Well, you could lose.
Speaker 5 (54:46):
Half your assets, you could be responsible for half your
partner's debt. You could have to split your inheritance.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Tail no yeah, yeah, well no.
Speaker 5 (55:00):
People don't think about the inheritance piece. They're like, oh,
it's inheritance, it must be mine. Well not, no, no, no,
it could be considered part of the marital estate for sure.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Get a pre ed up.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
That's right, I too, I like what Julia said too.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
And I think you know, the number, the forty seven
percent is such a it's such a big number.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
But I really believe that.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Not only are you know, are women and men getting
married a little bit older, but that they are they
are coming from a lot of you know, single single
parents and being raised by single parents, and I think
they just don't want to have that happen again. And
do you think the prenups are helping us stay married
(55:44):
longer or do you think it's just kind of like No,
I'm just I'm just I was just curious. I mean,
I didn't he didn't sign it, so I am not.
I'm in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
My marriage was two days long, so I don't know.
No years two who's counting?
Speaker 5 (56:01):
Yeah, I mean I do. I do, because when you
think about it foundationally, you are setting yourself up to
talk about the tough stuff before you get married. When
people get engaged, they're all about the wedding, right, They're
focused on the flowers, then the bridesmaid's dresses and the
guest list and all of those things that, like over
(56:21):
the course of a marriage are just irrelevant. And so
if you have a prenup, you're sitting down and you
are intentionally consciously having these conversations about what do we want,
what are our life pals, like, how do we want
to split finances? Do we want to have a joint
bank account? If I start a business, is that my business?
How are we going to fund that business? And I
(56:44):
think that is really important, and especially if you're on
your first marriage, like are we going to have kids?
And like is one of us going to stay home
and care for those children? These are all really important topics.
I think Kelly, in your situation too, where I know
you talked about how your fans wouldn't sign the prenup,
(57:05):
I think that's such a red flat. The fact that
he didn't want to sign the prenup tells you you're
not aligned, You're not on the same page. What is
he really in it for? Right? And so I think
we need to view prenups as being this opportunity to
of alignment.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
That's another time for bigger conversation. We were definitely not aligned.
Julia Rogers from Hello prenapp call her any time. Thank
you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Thank you ready to find yourself. I'm kidding exactly what yourself.
Speaker 4 (57:40):
On your on Hello, prenup, do you have like a questionnaire?
I think would also help for people to literally the
person who's giving the prenup or wanting the person to
sign the prenup should have like what you just went through,
like top twenty questions to ask even before you hire
a prenup attorney. I think we need to make this game, Kelly.
You know how they have those like love card games
or like emotional games, Like we need to do questions
(58:03):
to ask before even putting a ring on it, like
for real.
Speaker 5 (58:06):
This is we have eeers. Oh yes, I love it.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
That's helpful.
Speaker 5 (58:13):
All the articles, all the information.
Speaker 3 (58:15):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
Thank you, Julia, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (58:18):
This was so much fun. It was great to chat.
Speaker 3 (58:20):
With you both. Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Cheryl is and she's so great. She's great, so great.
She has such good energy and it does. I just
love that she's.
Speaker 4 (58:32):
I honestly I bow down to any attorneys whatsoever they
have to deal with this, because this ain't fun.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
But also just like the way that she's communicating, and
I mean at the price point that you know, you
can be transparent and be safe and protect and provide
for yourself and also be in love.
Speaker 2 (58:49):
There's there's nothing wrong with having both.
Speaker 4 (58:51):
And like I said, you have to separate the two
like money is not love whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Thank you Julia for coming on the podcast and answering
all of our questions about prenups. It was a lot
of great information for the listeners to hear, and I
hope if you knew nothing think about prenups that you're
leaving the conversation with a little more knowledge. Cheryl, this
was so great getting to chat with you. I know
the listeners are going to get so much advice from
both of us as they're looking for love.
Speaker 4 (59:18):
So if you guys are wanting some relationship or dating advice,
or if you're single and ready to find love again,
call us at one eight four four four I Do Pod.
That's eight four four four four three six seven sixty three,
or email us at ID pod at iHeartRadio dot com.
Follow us on Instagram at I Do Part two Pod,
(59:41):
I Do Part two. That's the number two pod, I
Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcasts where falling in love
is the main objective.
I do part two as a one of a kind
experience in podcasting and love.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
If you don't get right the first time, we're here
to help you get it right the next time.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Kelly ben Simone from
the Real Housewives of New York and I know firsthand
that love stories don't always have fairy tale endings, but
that doesn't mean.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
You should give up on love.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Today, I'm going to be joined with another one of
our celebrity mentors. You know her as former pro dancer
for twenty six seasons on Dancing with the Stars, and
she's the host of the podcast Sex, Lies and Spray Tans.
Please welcome Cheryl Burke to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Hi Cheryl, Hi, how are you Kelly?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm great? Thank you? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
First of all, you're so beautiful. Your life drop dead? Thanks,
drop you dead. We have so much to talk about.
We have so much in common.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I know.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I read a little bit about you. I saw a
couple of your past interviews, so yes, we do have
a lot in common.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Actually, I mean you were a dancer, I was a model.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You have pretty long hair. I have pretty long hair.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I mean, if I really were to take if I
were to be real this, most of the hair is fake,
you know, but it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's fine, You're beautiful. We do have a lot in common.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
We've been we both have been through a lot of
difficult times in our past with relationships, with finding love.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So tell us a little bit about your.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Relationship and why you think that it didn't work out
or why you know it didn't work out.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just go backwards here.
So now right as of today, I am single and
celibate for the last three years, and I have definitely
found power in that. I used to be a serial dater,
so I always went from man to man to man,
never had maybe a couple days off, like I'm not
exaggerating whatsoever. And with my marriage to my ex husband,
(02:16):
you know, we actually met when I first started Dancing
with the Stars through his older brother who did Dancing
with the Stars back in season three. So that was
like in two thousand and seven, and I was very
new to this entertainment industry and it was just bad timing,
I guess too, because he was obviously still is, i'm assuming,
an actor and he started as a child, and I
(02:40):
was just at the height of the success of Dancing
with the Stars. So we were on tour. We did
two seasons a year, two tours a year, so I
was just like working all around the clock, barely had
a day off. And so we dated for a year
and then we reconnected about a decade later and started
dating and soon after got married. So and now not married.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right, So serial dater to getting married to not getting married.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
So dating someone marrying.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Someone who was not in your financial bracket, right, I
don't know how how better to say it.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
We we just weren't I guess he wasn't necessarily working
right the time. Yeah, as much he was working, but
not as much.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Right, So that must have been really stressful because you
were traveling and your hours are crazy, and you're worth
a lot of new people.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
And I kind of.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Knew what I was getting into, you know, like I
am that's just my personality, Like I am never going
to not make money. I think that comes from my mother,
who's rags to riches story, you know, and I've seen
her hustle, was raised with her hustle. So that's who
I am ultimately, and I am actually proud of that.
(03:54):
There's no shame with that for sure, And I knew
what I was marrying, so like I knew what I
was getting into financially. However, it did take a toll,
I would say more. Maybe I'm not going to speak
for him. I'm not here to bad mouth and whatsoever.
But I believe that there is this gender role right
where a man may feel a little emasculated when he
(04:18):
doesn't make the majority of the money, and I think
that may have taken a toll.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So this episode is a lot about prenups. Did you
guys have a prenup?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, And why did you get the prenup? Well, you know,
for obvious reasons. I mean I got a prenup. My
family actually they were very involved with that. They my
mother wanted you know, me to be protected. I also,
my family has some money and we had to protect
(04:50):
the family estate, but also for me as well. It clearly,
you know, I was the one making more money, so
my mom, you know, I owned a home and.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
There's just a lot of little details.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I don't think a lot of people know when it
comes to especially in California, you know, So I'm not
sure if this is true. What we could ask the professional,
who's about to be here soon? I hear that if
somebody plants a succulent actually on your property, they could
fight for your property if you guys divorce and without
(05:24):
a prenup, that is. But that was no easy conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Right, I was just going to ask that, how did
you approach that? You're like, let's go pumpkin picking and
talk prenups?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Like an ultimatum. Yeah, it was a full on ultimatum
and my prenup attorney. First of all, it's not cheap.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
It was.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
It consisted of like seventy to eighty five pages long,
of lots of words and lots of fine detail and
fine print. But this was something that my attorney suggested
was to make sure I hire him an attorney as well.
So that was definitely part of the deal. And I understood,
(06:07):
like it's all good, but I have to say that
it definitely it raised a lot of concerns, especially on
his behalf, but there was really not much to do.
Either we do this and we get married or we don't.
And it's pretty black and white.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
You know, you and I are so similar because I
also prepare to prenup for my ex fiance, and you know,
I had this amazing lawyer that just really wanted to
make sure that I was protected and my girls were protected.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yes, you have kids, so that's yes, I do.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, and just my you know, the opportunity for me
to make a lot of money in the future with
just real estate and working in a lot of different states.
I just wanted to make sure that I was going
to be safe. He was married twice before, he's got
a lot of kids, and so I just didn't want
you know, I was trying to be optimistic, but I
also needed to be protective of my own self. And
(07:08):
you know, it was interesting how he had the prenup
for a while and I was just always like, like
a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I was like, you can read it and sign it
whenever you want.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Did you guys, what was the conversation Like prior to that, there.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Wasn't a conversation. I just wasn't. I was like, here,
here's the prenup. It's coming to your way.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Did he know there was a prenup coming?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I mean I didn't.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Again, like it wasn't like pumpkins and prenups like you know,
It's like I literally went to I went to the
lawyer and then afterwards, I said, you know, oh, there's
going to be you know, a letter coming your way
and you just want to check it out, and you know,
see what the situation was. And it just really put
me off. It really put me off that someone wouldn't
(07:52):
want me, someone that wanted to marry me so badly
I wouldn't want to make sure that I was protected
and provide for that really really bothered me. I think
it really, I was just like what I was like,
I'm I'm like an on and off switch.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Like I just am like the mint.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
If I find if I feel like any fear, I'm
like fight or flight, I'm like.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Nope, yeah, no, I hear you're closed. I'm so used
to that fight or flight or freeze feeling. It's insane.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, you know, I just wonder though, Like I remember
my you know, the conversation. Obviously it was like there
was you know, questions of do I not trust you
know him, and all of that, and obviously you know,
this is separate from love. Money does not equal love,
and that is something that I think it's hard to
and still is for me to this day. You know,
(08:44):
back in the day, I thought I can control people
with my money, and you know, obviously that is not
the case it and that has a lot to do
also with the way I was raised. Maybe I don't know.
I mean, I do know. I've been in therapy my
whole life. But at the end of the day, like
I and I guess how the lines can be blurred
and I understand and I don't understand, but I can
(09:05):
have a little bit of a compassion, you know, for
that other person. But for someone to just call off
an engagement because you're wanting to protect your assets and
you're it's something that we don't get our money handed
to us, like we work our asses off money, and
I know it ain't easy, and I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Thank you for saying that. Yeah, thank you for saying that.
There's no brand of money Tree, no house wives everywhere.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Regardless if I come from. But my parents are very
protective over I am.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Well over eighteen, I'm forty years old, and I also
have my own ego and pride, like I'm not going
to ask mommy and Daddy for anything I never have, right.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So it's interesting because a lot of people are, you know, like, Okay,
we're talking you're talking about prenups like Kelly, and they're like,
is it just for you know, women in their like
forties and fifties, and it's there was a study that
millennials forty seven percent of millennials are getting prenups.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Absolutely, and so they should.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Everyone should get a prenup if if, if it's worth it,
because it's not worth it if you guys are both
not you know, you're just But if.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You've made a little money.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
There was twenty thousand dollars That money at twenty years old,
if you put it away for yourself could be a
lot of money. It's you know, so you know, I
think that it's just really I think it's really important.
You know, Listen, I made the mistake. I should have
talked to my ex earlier.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
I did. I made a mistake. I did. I made
a mistake.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I should have had like a more open conversation with him.
I just have never had an open conversation with anyone
about finances outside of my father. And so he's deceased,
so he's not available. Hi Dad, love you say mom? Hi.
So you know, I I should have probably had more
(10:50):
of a you know, different narrative, but I am actually
glad that I didn't have one at the beginning, because
I may have. I may have been like, well, think
about it, or he might have like maybe taught said, oh,
you don't worry about it. We're gonna have a traditional marriage,
and I'm gonna be like, Okay, so if we get
divorced or what if I die, I'm taking care of
(11:10):
your kids.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
It's not comfortable to have these conversations.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
And then, by the way, it's the easiest thing to
do is not to have it, right, Like I mean really,
but then at the end of the day you start
to understand that, okay, well, without the communication, things are
going to either blow up or have cause resentment. And
I think this prenup definitely caused resentment within our marriage absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So what about the press.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
You've been through the press and it hasn't been easy
for you. So what did you think about the press,
you know, talking about your prenup.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Well, let me first say that because of the prenup,
my divorce was pretty easy, right, So there was like
that is the positive of it all, Like it was
very lean and clear as far as what was happening
and the next steps moving forward. So that in itself
saved a lot of headache and stress. Now, as far
as press goes, I mean, I mean, I've been on
(12:15):
Dancing with the Stars. I was on it since two
thousand and seven, never and I did twenty six seasons
of it, and I went, I mean, I've been on.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
The press for my weight.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I've been on the press for my all of my
twenty six partners I've hooked up with, which is all
a lie, right, like no, not even I mean Wayne
Newton maybe, but kidding, but like I love it. It's
this was this too shall pass like it's so, I mean,
there's gonna be bigger and better news soon.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
So like that was what I was.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
It's not so much that it was more like for me,
I get affected still and I can't wait till the
day I don't, but I do get I care about
what other people think of me, and I'm not even
gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Like this is yeah, this is what I do.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
My my my publicist, you know, when he broke the
news to the press and talked about the prenup, you know,
I was like, you know, I've had such bad press,
Like I mean, I get great press from my work,
but for my housewives life. It's like you're crazy, you're nuts,
you're stupid, you're an idiot, You're this, you're that, you're awful.
And I literally was like, he was like, shut your
(13:21):
phone off and just go to bed. And I was
actually getting a chronic while we were organizing this, and
I'm like, I'm serendipitous. I'm like I'm getting a colonic
time to time to sever the ties. And uh so
he was just like, shut your phone off, and so
I did. And in the morning, people were like clapping
and I would I was getting like all these clapping emojis,
(13:42):
and I'm just like, oh my, oh my.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Gosh, like did you not say what was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
I'm just so used to people saying that I'm nuts
and crazy and stupid and idiot and awful and ugly
and fat and whatever it is, and that I you know,
I was just shell shocked.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And then I thought to myself, oh my god, like
I could actually help people like navigate these waters because
to your point, you know, it's just the transparency is
just it.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
It makes everything.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
It's like everyone talks about like you know, your partner's
your best friend open up to them. Well okay, so
you're opening up to them on all these different levels
and telling them all these things, but then when it
comes to your finances, it's like, oh, just whatever happens, devil,
make care. And you know I I I'm so grateful
for him, and I'm just so grateful for the press
(14:36):
to be so proactive and supportive of me.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
It really meant a lot.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not shocked by that, just because, like,
especially in today's age, I think maybe back in maybe
the renaissance ages, people would have been like, who are you,
especially as a woman, you know, But I totally am
with you. I think this is why I'm People are
like you overshare and I'm like okay, but I know
I'm helping somebody feel like they're not alone regardless, And
I think that's why, you know, I have chosen to
(15:04):
talk about it with respect still to my ex obviously
about my everything. I've talked about my mental health. I've
talked about my sexual assault situation, being molested as little girl,
like I have. I've been an open book and I
know that I when I was a little girl going
through that, I wish I could actually hear someone else
who had a platform talk about it as well.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I love that I'm learning, I'm trying. I have a
therapist now, which i've I've had a little on and
off therapist. But I'm like, okay, how do I be
a queen? And she's like, no more, try to be
a queen, Kelly. She's like this, you need to get
raw and real, and like, what is it that's making
you attracted to these kind of men? And why would
you even put yourself in a position like that? You
(15:46):
have You've raised two girls on your own, You've survived,
you know, the wrath of you know, wildness for so
many years and still made it through the other side.
Like why would you put your thoughtslf through this? And
like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well? Why what was your answer? Why do you attract
men like that?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You said it in one of your in one of
your articles, I think it was. I think it was
like online you just said, like you picked, You're the
wrong picker.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Yeah, no, I'm a bad picker because of the abuse
I dealt with as a little girl, that my definition
of a man wasn't necessarily stable, right, So my mother
and father divorced when I was two. My very first
memory as a kid was seeing my father with another woman,
and then it just then I got molested when I
was about six years old, when to testify againstim at nine,
(16:32):
and then from then on my whole high school career,
I dated abusive men because that was my normal, right
was my normal was that there was no normalcy as
far as what a healthy relationship is. And when there
was a good man that came or across my path,
I was turned off by him because that was not
something I was used to. But this is why I'm
(16:53):
choosing to be single and celibate, because I need to
retrain my brain and that takes time.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, I mean I think that that's you. And you're
sober as well.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yes, for six years.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I mean that's so good because you're we're talking about
the transparency. We're talking about that clarity, and now you're
able to like see what is good for you and
for your life, and.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Which is also really hard because I also left the
show for similar reasons. Like when I'm when I chose
to be sober, my I became so clear that I
was no wonder I was drinking and numbing you.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Know, and were you numbing because of the pain from
the from the.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Pain in general?
Speaker 4 (17:33):
If I never felt my feelings like it was and
when you don't feel your feelings though, it's easily said
than done, for sure, And I'm still currently I'm a
work in progress. I'm not perfect intellectually, I get it,
But when it comes down to it, I am a
professional number, even if it's not through alcohol or whatever. Like,
I can numb through work and I can be so
busy if I want to that I don't have to
(17:54):
ever face my feelings. And I think that is an
actual in society today, what we're all doing, to be
quite honest.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh my god, I hope not doing that. I work
so much.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
How busy are you, Cherry?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Maybe I'm doing that, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
One thing at a time, a forever thing.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Like moment with you. I'm gonna pay you a hard
dollars when we're done.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
No, I don't need your money, girl.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
What do you What do you think of the double
standard for women and for prenups.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
I don't like I haven't really thought too much about it.
I really don't think it's our problem. I think it's
the person who's receiving the prenup, which if it's the woman,
then it's the person she's marrying, and it depends on
that person's ego. Like, I don't know, I think people
are very I think especially now, like I said earlier,
people congratulate you for it. I think it's important to
(18:41):
uh protect yourself regardless of who it is, a woman,
a man, whatever. If you don't go by any gender,
so be it. Like this is just life and we
work too hard for us to give that away.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's insane.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I mean, it's just like the whole thing is just
you know, I actually took I mean, I'm not celibate,
but I did take the summer off. And I have
so many of my friends asking, you know, oh, when
are you gonna start dating again? And I actually started
going on a couple of.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Dates, which was like I hate that question.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
It was just really it was really awful.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I'm like it doesn't you know, they're like, oh, she's
just like would someone say like kick the dust off
or something.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I'm like, all right, I'm sorry, what dust?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, plane break, so there's no dust anywhere near me
or around me or perfectionism.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Perfectionism is attact just like mine. That's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Do you think do you think the prenupts are unromantic?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
No, it's real. And I wish if I could have
done it all over again. I wish I was because
like anybody, I'm sure and I think, like you, I
don't don't want to speak for you, but it was
uncomfortable for me to have this conversation and we went
to couple's therapy the moment we got back together the
second time around, like the moment, like that was a requirement,
it was non negotiable, no matter, you don't go to it.
(20:00):
For me, I don't believe in just going to therapy
when there's problems. You go before there's problems, because then
you can really, you know, have those conversations because you're
still at the honeymoon phase and god knows how long
that lasts before you know, you talk about marriage. And look,
there was a lot of red flags for me, and
I think selfishly, I wanted to see if I could
get married. I don't know if I was ready either,
(20:22):
you know. And it was like a production. I made
it literally, I made it like a Dancing with the
Star's scene, like I worked with Mindy Weiss. We tried
to micromanage her. It was a whole thing like this
was there's just so many red flags.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Oh my god. I also had red flags.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And it's interesting you say that because now, like looking back,
I am saying like, Okay, you know, I probably my
own self was probably telling my myself like, if he
doesn't sign the pre nup, you're gonna be fine because
he doesn't really want to be with you. My you know,
my red flags were just you know, to be hundred
(21:00):
percent transparent. And this is not to be a huge dig,
but his his life with his ex wives was so
messy and it was such a distraction and I just
didn't have anything to do with it, and I just could.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
It was just messy.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
What did your kids think about him?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
My kids, my kids, you know, you know, I'm so lucky, Cheryl,
so lucky. I just have a really great kids. And
they you know, they've been through a lot. I mean
they've been through they've been through the you know, Housewives,
which is really really not the show was hard, but
just like you know how some of the housewives can
just be like just denamous. They're twenty four and twenty
(21:39):
six and they've just like grown to be like such
amazing humans and I'm so proud of that that you,
oh my god, thank you appreciate that. So some of
the red flags were just like you know, messiness with
you know, with his his exes.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Did he ever sign a prenup with them?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
He tried to post up with one of them. But
you know, I just was that was just messy and
it was just too much. I didn't want anything to
do with it. And that was something because I love children,
and I'm like, if you can't get along with me,
you can't get along with anybody. I mean, I am
the most easy going person, but if I don't like something,
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Er good for you.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Like we all have that, right, We all have an intuition.
The question is if you follow it or not? You know,
and you try and release control, because we can't control
anybody but ourselves.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Actually, I think that because I travel so much, and
you know, I work in all these different cities and
I travel a lot, and I have a very unusual
work schedule, I think that, you know, he kind of
thought that I wasn't paying attention and that what you know,
that it was just kind of like, Okay, I actually
was paying attention.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I just was like not interested. I was like, yeah,
I don't like that kid.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
If I can handle two, if I can raise two
kids and provide for two kids and not have all
I've said this million times, like I don't mind if
you have baggage, like you know, shebaiton a little gooch,
you know, like the Farrel edition.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
It's not like emotional baggage.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
First of all, I don't have the keys for a
storage locker. I'm not going to the storage locker. I'm like,
this is just not my vibe. I I can't do that.
It's not happening.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And he worked.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Did he make money?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
He worked?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
No, he worked, he weren't so you know he worked,
but you know I was.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I mean, I I just have the more of more
of an earning potential. Let's talk Let's talk about that
again too, about like just being with men who you
know married to men, being with men who who you
know make less, like because I have done, I've.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Only been with men that make less. And I think
that's my issue with control. So I don't know if
I could ever. I mean, I'm trying to change that
because I don't. I think that there is a psychological
issue there that I've been again working on with my therapist.
But I am a controlling woman obviously, and I am
and this is a pattern for me, right, So I've
(24:05):
never not even I've never dated anybody who was more
successful than me.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So I've only dated a couple younger guys. The majority
of the handful of guys that I've dated have been
extremely successful. So except the namic one of them was
younger and he was like starting off in finance and
he had an amazing job. But most of them my
(24:41):
serious guys. I mean it's different, like guys you hang
out with. That's different, but like you know, real boyfriends.
They were all really really successful, but they you know,
someone when amen younger, And you know, it's funny because
when I was with them, I would be like, you know,
I would be so I was like so like attracted
(25:01):
to the love and having the best time, but like
in the back of my head, I was always thinking, like,
you know, I'm provided for my kids, I've done this
all this on my own.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Who is going to take care of me?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
And sometimes it gets exhausting, Cheryl to be like constantly
like sometimes I feel like the little hamster on the wheel,
just like.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, I can do it.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I can do it.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You know, I can do these places. I can get
this next deal, I can bring this. I can do that.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
On my head, I know, I get it.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
I mean, this transition from this being on the show
and having consistent work too then choosing not to be
on it has been It is still hard. It's hard,
you know, right, But going back to the reason why
I think for me, I thought I could. I thought
that if I made more, I was more successful, that
they wouldn't cheat on me. And that's the big fear
of mine, is infidelity.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Oh my gosh, that's really funny, because you know it's
so funny is because I would say, like, whatever if
like we get into a fight or whatever, and they'd
be like, oh, I just met this twenty three year old.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I was like, oh, son them a book and I'll
sign it. Awful. I'm awful. I could be awful.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I know I'm not, but awful no.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
I I hear.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
I mean, I look at hear what I've been saying,
Like I'm a full on control freak. Like I would
like to say I'm recovering, but I'm not recovering yet
I'm still there.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
That's why I'm not the way the way.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
The book that I was going to send to them
was called it Can Make You Hot, So wow.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
It's worse.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
I'm sure they would find that I can't.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I can't make I'm sorry. I'm just being honest. I'm like,
I just I just need to be transparent.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Do you think this.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Stereotype of men needing to make money will ever go away?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's just not true.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
So people could still live in the renaissance ages, that's fine,
but I mean everyone evolves and so does this world,
and that honestly just isn't true anymore. So my I think,
and I also know that, like my mother was the
breadwinner in both of her marriages, so I don't know
anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It's interesting because like my daughters, you know, they're twenty
four and twenty six, and they're you know, some of
their friends are single parents.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
And my youngest daughter.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
She's like, Mommy, you're single, but you're not like you
were divorced but separated, but you're not really like a
divorce mom. Like, no, I'm not marry that means I said.
She goes, well, we're not raised like that, because you're
like the mom and the dad. We weren't really raised
like that. But she's like, other moms are not like you,
and they are looking for these men and desperate for
these men. And when I go on these dates, these
guys are like they want to know what vacation were
(27:32):
going on. I'm like, vacation, like I don't have timeification Like,
I'm like, wait a minute, you just asked me. You
were just complaining about a woman going on vacation with you,
and then now you're mad at me because I'm working
so I can't see you until Thursday.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
How long was your break from your breakup with your
ex that you were going to marry to dating?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
So we broke up at the end end of June.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, and then when did you start dating again?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I'm just recently in the past, like a couple of minutes,
got it?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (28:04):
No, I like, I'm not looking for anybody. I am
first of all, the fact that I'm alone, like I
live alone with my friend Siet. I'm like, and I
love this life too much. My therapist is like, I'm
a little worried about you. It's been three years, and
I'm like, listen, you know, for every narcissist you date,
supposedly you need to give back to yourself.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Like two years.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
This is from doctor Romney, and I'm like, well, I
still got a couple more years.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Like I'm so if you can't drink and you can't
and you're not doing to have sex, what about like dance.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Lessons I've retired, remember, I know, but it's a little
dirty dancing.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I mean I could teach you it's a door but
er no, I'm talking about you and your boyfriend or
whoever your day.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Have like poor let it's like hideous.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Please I would love that, but no, but you don't
want what about like just like.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
I have zero interest in dating. I'm not looking for anyone.
I am definitely I know I'm looking for me at
the moment. Like I'm currently trying to figure out my
identity was so outside of me. The show was my identity.
Everything that was so not uh, something that you could
definitely just take.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Out of my life.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I don't want that feeling ever again in my life.
Like I want to be able to find happiness within myself.
And let me tell you, with a lot of the
stuff that I've I guess not dealt with. It's all
coming up right now at the moment, and so I
still have a lot to work on within myself before
I even am interested in dating. I've never been on
a dating app. I have zero interest, none of it.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I actually went on dating app the summer and I
talked about in my last podcast, and my housewives's nemesis
end up dating him.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So that was hideous.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Is your housewife's nemesis.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm not going to mention her.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Okay, no need.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
To have a certain age.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Anyway, back to the show, pubs, let's talk about setting
me up.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Let's get serious, you know, like now that I'm dating. Oh,
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
I had my time, took a summer off, I'm studying
Texas life. I mean, I'm dating, but like I want
to date with intention.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
Oh okay, so then you should get rid of the
person you're talking to first, then we can talk.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Are you into dancers?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I mean I don't know how to dance, but I
would learn how to dance.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Opposites a tract? Okay, tell me what what are like?
What what are.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
The physical features that you want versus what type of
personality traits are you looking for?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
I would like a head, shoulder, sneeze, and toes.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, nowadays you never know, No what am.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I looking for? I'm looking for? You know?
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Actually it's funny because I don't really have like a
specific body type, like my kids are, like, you don't
really have a type. I've dated blondes, I've dated brunettes.
I've dated shorter.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Do they have to be fit?
Speaker 1 (30:48):
No, I've dated like some some chubbies. I've dated some
like lean guys. I've dated like yeah, I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
How about personality traits? Is it okay if he was
married before?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yes, just as long as doesn't not messy, Just as
long as there's no like I hate my ex wife.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
She's calling me every day.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
It's like, you don't hate your ex wife, you want
to talk to her if she's calling you every day?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Are you avoidant or anxious attachment or secure attachment?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
These are really intense questions. Can I write these down?
This's like an SAT question for like romance. Oh my god,
I am I think that I When I love, I like,
really I have a lot of energy. I mean, you're
you're talking to me, I'm like literally gonna leap out
of the out of the screen.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
But like when it comes do you run away from committed?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Really?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Are you scared? Or do you attached? Like do you
like I'm anxious attachment.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I'm like a wallaby.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Joeyan like woo, yeah, okay, so you're so it supposedly
statistics say I could be wrong here, but my therapist
said this that anxious and avoidant always most of the
time end up together.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And my ex was avoidant and I'm very anxious.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
So so I mean all of those I have to
actually look up all those different terms. I do not
know your your Your emotional intelligence is a twelve and
mine is a preschoolers.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So I've been in therapy since I was five for
obvious reasons. So that's why we just started.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
I'm going to talk to my therapist, like, there's some
words I learned.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Do you like?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I'm not sure. She's very nice. She's actually so nice.
She's like very warm with me.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, So what have you learned from yourself from being single?
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Well, the whole identity thing, you know. I said this
on my during my goodbye speech with Tyra Banks when
she was hosting the show a couple of years ago,
and I was like this show has been my identity,
and I'd like to say that it has now changed,
because that for me was worse than my divorce was
when I retired from the show, because it was a
(32:43):
part of my life since I moved to La Like
I went from Harlem, you know, being a starving competitive
ballroom dancer with my partner slash boyfriend, and it was
not a great healthy relationship whatsoever, to not even having
a voice, to then having my own voice. And I
still credit the show to this day for helping me
with just finding my own voice, but then also that
(33:06):
it's not my identity, you know, and having to separate
that knowing that really the only that when people say
you make me feel complete, that's a cracish like only
you can make yourself feel complete, and that starts with
self love, self care and prioritizing yourself and being selfish
but in a good way, and all of that is
(33:27):
what I'm currently learning.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Oh my god, you're such a thoughtful person.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I love that, and it's entirely just a beautiful I
love her, just a beautiful human. Well, so are you,
And I really appreciate that and I appreciate your honesty.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Let's see what have I learned.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I I've learned that sleeping in my bed alone is okay.
I've learned that I actually really kind of like myself.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I used to like not like myself.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I used to be like, like everything that everyone's saying
is is going through my head and I am.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
All those things.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
And I walk down the street, I would be like
one of those people that's like, you know, I would
see people and they.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Would like pop up, be like you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
I hate you because it's just like social media came
out when I first started, so like that's just all
I thought, and so I was just constantly in a
sea of insecurity. And recently in the past, like I
don't know, I've had this crazy, wild awakening just you know,
with all this new responsibility for myself and I had
(34:33):
to move out in an apartment and try to find
an apartment within a day and just really like taking
control of my life overnight. I like felt just feel
very very very proud of myself, which I never have ever.
And it just feels really really good to feel proud,
really good awesome.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I mean, like talk about resilience right, like I mean
fight flight or freeze to its finest what name three
things about yourself that you love.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
My energy, my kindness and thoughtfulness towards others, and my
ability to see the best in things.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Now, name three physical traits you love about yourself that
you love.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
I really like my hair, I really, I really. I
hate my sorrisis.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
No, that's not part of it. That wasn't the question.
Two more things, come on, two more.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Okay, I really like my hair. My eyes look fired today.
They're green, they do so I like those. And I
love my teeth.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Look at your cheekbones. You look snatched girl like. I
would love to have your face structure.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you. That was really
nice and that was a nice exercise. I really appreciate that.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Sorry to jump jump to another topic. I feel like
we're like on like prenup ad D here, but what
is what?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Why are they so expensive? Why are these preanups so expensive?
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Well, I mean think about it. You're actually it's not
that expensive. If you put everything into perspective, it's worth
every single penny, especially if you're trying to save your
life savings and you know whomever is attached to you,
it's actually worth every penny to be quite honest. I
don't regret it whatsoever. You know, why is its expensive
because they can they can't charge that much because there's
not a lot of people that work in this business.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Right exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
All right, guess what we are going to bring are
guest the CEO and founder of Hello Prenup to talk
more about all of this.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Hello, Hi, Julia.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
So nice to see you both. Kelly. I also love
your hair prenu.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Hello, how are you?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
That's what we're just going to call you from now.
I'm prenup fort the Julia call me.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Call me whatever you want, Kelly.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
Said, Hello prenup, question mark or exclamation point or nothing.
Speaker 5 (37:07):
It's nothing, but I think point is great.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I think so too.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, it's like, Hello, peenup call me anytime.
Speaker 5 (37:14):
Yeah, no, exactly exactly, visit helloprenup dot com anytime.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I love that, Julia. So we're talking all things prenup obviously.
You know, Cheryl and I have both had some incredible
journeys with our own prenups, which have been you know,
I'm so happy that I, you know, created prenup and Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Is for her past divorce. Why are these prenups so expensive?
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Well, they don't have to be you know, I think
that number one. If you're going the traditional route and
you're each hiring independent attorneys, that's fantastic. Obviously, that's not
the least expensive way to go about it, right, attorneys
have of high hourly rates and a lot of times
if you don't walk into that engagement with an understanding
(38:07):
of what you're looking for, there's going to be a
lot of negotiation. Through a service like Hello, prenup. You know,
we have flat rate pricing. We have flat rate pricing
for the prenup alone, and then when you add on
attorneys in forty five states, right, So there are ways
to get a prenup that are affordable inaccessible to all.
And that's you know, kind of the goal of my
company and mission.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
What does that look like? What's successible mean like money
whise range?
Speaker 5 (38:33):
Yeah, so it's five hundred and ninety nine dollars to
use the platform, and then for representation with an attorney
it's six hundred and ninety nine dollars. So ostensibly a
couple can get a full prenup with two lawyers for
under two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Awesome, Wow, what is the difference between a prenup and
a post up and our post nups?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, what are post now?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Are they? Do they really work?
Speaker 5 (38:57):
Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Prenups should have worked alone.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Well, sometimes people get don't get a prenup and then
they get a post up.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Oh, got it exactly, So you know, post ups are fantastic.
The main difference is a prenup has to be signed
before you get married. If you do not get a
prenup or you don't you start the prenup process, but
you don't sign it before you get married. You can
still get a post up if you have the option.
(39:24):
A prenup is definitely more desirable. They're upheld more, they're
more likely to be enforced. Some states are you know,
questionable on whether or not they'll enforced post ups, whereas
I think the vast majority of states full enforced prenups.
And one of the things that's so great though about
post ups is let's say you've been married for a
(39:45):
period of time and you don't have a pre you
didn't get a prenup. You can get a postup. You
can realign and make sure that you're both you know,
you have the same expectations. Sometimes things change in marriages too.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Right.
Speaker 5 (40:00):
Let's say this is a second marriage and you didn't
get a prenup, but when off you starts a business, Well,
let's sit down and talk about how that business should
be held. Is that ours if we get a divorce
in the future, or is that mine? Post up allows
you to reassess and realign or.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
If, like all of a sudden, your partner makes more
money than you. Yeah, are they allowed to do that?
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Like? Can they?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Well?
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Absolutely? And I think that it's if life changes or
you know, if you know, you have kids and one
party decides to stay home, that's an opportunity to say,
all right, now I'm staying home, I'm not earning income,
so I want to make sure that we reassess what
we originally agreed to in our prenup where everything was
(40:46):
going to be yours. I need to do that I'm protected, right,
And so that's where you know, a post up, which
is in some states it depends on which state you're in,
is a modification to a prenup can be really beneficial.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
What should be in a pre nup?
Speaker 5 (41:00):
Well, you can contract almost anything you want. You can't
contract to children, so you can't contracts. Yes, you can
have succulents. I've never seen anyone contract.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (41:14):
Is that true what I said earlier about if they
plant a succulent in California?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Are you in California?
Speaker 5 (41:20):
I'm not in California, but hello, prenup operates in California
forty five states.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Is it true that if they plan a succulent, like,
let's say I own the property and we did not
get a prenup. Is it true that they can after
a certain amount of years, that the person who planted
the succulent, your partner, can actually fight and say that
this is his property.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
I think the point that examples trying to make is
that they now have earned some interest in that property.
I think without a prenup, what you're doing is you're
leaving it up to chance.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Correct SHAREFF calls bush, and they favor the person who
doesn't make as much money.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I really believe that.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
What about what about dogs for babies? Are the range?
Everybody is accident.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
She's gotten a huge fight about it, like it was crazy.
I wish it was in the prenup, But he got
me the dog when we were already married.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
Head clauses are really really popular.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Ain't pet clause Okay, Yeah, you can.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Decide on your pet custody. You can decide who's paying
for what for the pet, and I think just aligning
on those expectations is really important. What I always like
to remind people is, like I always hear all like,
prenups aren't romantic, Like it means you're planning for either
childbirth exactly.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
I like, if I know, I was waiting for you
to be like true story, I've never had a child.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
I can only assume I've had two.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
I've had a child, and I totally agree childbirth is
not romantic. But you know, neither is the fact that
if you don't have a prenup, you still have a
prenup because it's just state legislature that is deciding how
your assets get divided in divorce or death. So why
are you leaving that up to chance? Why are you
leaving that up to in your case, Cheryl, the state
(43:03):
of California?
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Right?
Speaker 5 (43:05):
Why are we not deciding what is best for us
as a couple before we get married?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Is it protocol?
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Like I have my attorney advice that I get at
an attorney for my ax. Is that something that's like
protocol or not protocol?
Speaker 3 (43:19):
But is that normal?
Speaker 5 (43:20):
Yeah, I think it's completely normal, and I think it's
very important to get legal advice. In certain states you
are required to have an attorney for certain things, like
in California, if you want to waive or modify spousal support,
you must have an attorney. The other states you must
have an attorney for, you know, again, certain conditions, And
I think it's always advisable. Like if you're entering into
a prenup and you are not sure what the default
(43:44):
law would be if you didn't enter into the prenup,
you don't know what those state requirements are, you should
get legal advice.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
What about infidelity? How does that play out?
Speaker 3 (43:54):
And no one cares.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I don't care about Carey anymore.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
So I'm the person involved cares the person who was
being cheated on. Definitely, it's it's like, unfortunately, it's not.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Like, oh he cheated on me. It's like no, no, no,
that's not okay.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
No, it's not okay.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Can you do an infidelity clause? Yes, I guess not
New York, but you couldn't.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
You can not in California either.
Speaker 5 (44:18):
It depends on what state you're in, And infidelity clauses
can be included in certain states. What I like to
remind people is often like a prenup is just as
much an emotional document as it is a legal one. Right,
So just the mere act of including an infidelity clause
in there, it means you had that conversation and you said, look,
(44:39):
I'm okay with this or I'm not okay with this,
but I'm not.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Just morals, values and beliefs when you're marrying, and like,
that's just like an obvious like, I mean, what would
an infidelity clause look like?
Speaker 5 (44:51):
Exactly, Well, let's back up to your morals and beliefs. Right,
that's the point of a.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Pre cheated on me. He's a joke, he gets nothing.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
It's important.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
Can add where a lot of cut their penis off
or that is that okay?
Speaker 5 (45:03):
In the that is illegal and you can be like Lorena, Yeah,
I mean you can define infidelity and you can define
a financial penalty for infidelity. It's not enforceable in all states,
but yeah, they're very popular clauses, I think.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
So if you cheat on me, you get ten thousand dollars,
So hello, that's going to be way more than that girl,
I would hope, meaning like.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Or you have to give me a million dollars. This
is like you choose, I think I think a lot
of here's a succulent.
Speaker 5 (45:46):
People are often afraid, you know, they're afraid to talk
about a preno because they feel like it's scary.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
It's scary.
Speaker 5 (45:53):
Yeah, and I and I understand why. I mean, Cheryl,
you've had one when you were going into this process, Like,
how did you approach it with your fiance at the time.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
I mean, it was there was no right way to
do it, And to be honest, I wish I would
have had I wish we would have discussed this more
therapy when we were in therapy. But yeah, this was
a discussion that also my parents had for them as well,
like this was important and again this shouldn't have gotten
it shouldn't. I mean, of course it's emotional, absolutely, and
(46:27):
I have to say when it was time to sign everything,
it wasn't necessarily the easiest, like with we had someone
there obviously to what are they called again when when
they're observing they have to be there too? Sure yea yeah,
and it was quite like intense, you know, but uh, yeah,
(46:48):
there's just the sooner the better, and try to talk
about it before you hand them the prenup.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Ideally, I think too, Like, you know, my father, he
passed away a year and a half ago, and I
think that if my father had met my ex, which
they did, he would have said, if you you know,
a what are your intentions with my daughter? Not to
sound like all Jane Austen, but you know, what are
your intentions? And if you do have any intentions, you're
(47:16):
going to sign a prenum because I am the daughter
of a lawyer, and I think that would have voutedly
been a better time. Yeah, so that would have probably been.
But you know, like when Julie, how do you like,
how do you go? I mean I did not talk
about it in a with my therapist. I literally just
went to this amazing matrimonial lawyer in New York who
(47:40):
is unbelievable, and she was such a maternal figure and
was like, I'm very she was very very worried about me,
very worried, and she was like, here's here, we have
to lay this out. And she's like, if anything happened
to you, he could get all this money and your kids,
you know, it would be it wouldn't be good. And
I got really, really freaked out, and I was I like,
(48:04):
I literally turned me off the minute that I found
out that I wasn't being provided and protected that I
would have potentially been exploited.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
And so what are your thought?
Speaker 1 (48:14):
What are your How could I have? How could I
have changed that? How could I have not saying that
I want to go back or do anything, but like, like,
I made a mistake, I'd handled it the wrong way.
So how could I have Like, you know, for the
for everyone out there, for like the young you know,
millennials at forty seven percent, they're getting prenups, Like, how
do you have that conversation in a way that's like palatable?
Speaker 5 (48:36):
Yeah, okay, well I would say third date, second glass
of wine.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Three date.
Speaker 5 (48:44):
Wow, third date, second glass of wines.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
On your age, right, Like depends on what you're looking for,
because like listen, when I eventually date, I'm in my
I'm forty, Like yes, absolutely, third date.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
But people in their twenties same.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
Yeah. No, I mean I think it's the sentiment, right,
you're having a conversation about what you want out of life.
I mean, if you're in your twenties and you're just
kind of dating for sport and you are not intending
to get married. You're not serious, right, It's obviously a
very different conversation, and you should wait until you're ready
(49:15):
you're in that space in life. But I do think
that you know, if you are dating because you want
to find your person and you want to get married,
especially as women, I mean, why should we be embarrassed
to bring up the conversation, right?
Speaker 4 (49:30):
I think it's like it's kind of like I was
scared for me about his reaction, like he was, you know,
and that wasn't so much about like scared. I also
wonder I wish I would have done this. I wish
I would have educated myself about the state I was
living in and what that required even before, Like what like,
let me just read through this textbook of information or
(49:51):
have someone explain it to me first of all, what
a prenup is, why I would want to get a prenup,
what that exactly means, and what does it mean for
the state of California. Like, I think that is so
important to educate yourself first. Because I had I'm still
finding out things that I never knew.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
And that's exactly what this podcast is all about, is
people looking for love and that's what we're trying to do.
We're trying to educate and you know, show that there's
there are solutions and that you know, you don't have
to be worried about protecting yourself and you know you
can provide them.
Speaker 4 (50:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
It's like they always say, like men are supposed to
provide and protect, Well, they haven't for me, so I'm
going to do it for myself.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
Yeah, the regardless of the gender, you have to protect yourself.
Speaker 5 (50:38):
Yeah. And I think information is power, right, Yes, you know,
the fear of the unknown is oftentimes the issue when
it comes to the prenups, especially when you're talking Cheryl
about state law and educating yourself and really understanding what
goes into a prenup and what the process is. I mean,
one of the reasons we started Hello Prenup was because
(51:00):
we wanted to offer free information so that anybody could
go to the website, choose their state and read all
about it. Right, there's no barrier to entry, and I
think it's really important to educate yourself but also to
feel empowered by the process. The process should be one
that is, you know, you're both participating. It's not one
(51:23):
person serving a prenup. On the other you're each protecting
your interests. I think in the case where there's family money,
you know, there's a lot of pressure from parents. But
I think that's an opportunity in the conversation of bringing
up a prenup to say this is really important for
my family, right, and you're relieving the pressure from yourself.
(51:44):
I think in.
Speaker 4 (51:45):
Case also though, the family should have their own trusts, right, like,
so that they're protected in general, right.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Well, sometimes no trust don't take a second, so it
takes a while to put put a trust together. And
that's actually what happened to me too. That's another reason
I had to get a prenupp. But so the prenups
are not just for the person, they're also for the relationship.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Can you just talk a little bit more about that, Julia.
Speaker 5 (52:10):
Yeah, absolutely, So a prenup is an opportunity. It's an
opportunity to have those life conversations and set yourself up
by building that foundation. A prenup is an opportunity to
have those life conversations. So depending on where you are
in life, it's like do we want to have kids,
(52:30):
like do we want to retire at forty? And like
travel the world? Do we want a white pick it fence,
or you know, if you have children from a prior marriage,
are you going to financially support them? And what does
that look like for our marriage? So it's an opportunity
to have these really important life conversations. And I think
(52:52):
it's also important to remember that, you know, all marriages
end the either end in death or divorce.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I think that sen's forever.
Speaker 5 (53:00):
Nothing's forever. So let's be really sober about that fact,
and like.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Yeah, we're taking time bomb. We're all gonna die folks.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
Sorry, So do you do you have any like statistics
about like prenups, like helping people not get divorced, or
do you have any any any kind of statistics that
can Yeah?
Speaker 2 (53:21):
I like that.
Speaker 5 (53:21):
With that, I think one that's really important is forty
seven percent of millennials are who are married or engaged
have a prenup.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I know, I said that that's crazy.
Speaker 5 (53:35):
And what that tells me, like, millennials are getting married
a little bit later in life, right, They're getting married
in their early thirties. By the time they get married me, Yeah,
we have assets to pretend millennial. Yeah, amazing me too.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
In it.
Speaker 5 (53:51):
It looks like a millennial. Okay, definitely, I.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Act like one, Oh, really, what is that supposed to mean?
You know, spirited, young, spirited.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
You have assets to protect, maybe you have debt, right,
maybe you start.
Speaker 3 (54:06):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Right, yeah right.
Speaker 5 (54:10):
Domestically, it's really important to you know, to pay attention
to those facts and protect yourself. And I think that
millennials get that, and they're also looking to like not
do what their parents did. Twenty four percent of millennials
have divorced parents. Right, we've seen what divorce does to
(54:30):
our families, Like, let's not repeat that in our own marriages.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Can you name just.
Speaker 4 (54:35):
Three qualities as to what happens, like three things that
are just not that could happen if you don't have
a prenap just scare people, please, Well, you could lose.
Speaker 5 (54:46):
Half your assets, you could be responsible for half your
partner's debt. You could have to split your inheritance.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Tail no yeah, yeah, well no.
Speaker 5 (55:00):
People don't think about the inheritance piece. They're like, oh,
it's inheritance, it must be mine. Well not, no, no, no,
it could be considered part of the marital estate for sure.
Speaker 3 (55:10):
Get a pre ed up.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
That's right, I too, I like what Julia said too.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
And I think you know, the number, the forty seven
percent is such a it's such a big number.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
But I really believe that.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Not only are you know, are women and men getting
married a little bit older, but that they are they
are coming from a lot of you know, single single
parents and being raised by single parents, and I think
they just don't want to have that happen again. And
do you think the prenups are helping us stay married
(55:44):
longer or do you think it's just kind of like No,
I'm just I'm just I was just curious. I mean,
I didn't he didn't sign it, so I am not.
I'm in this conversation.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
My marriage was two days long, so I don't know.
No years two who's counting?
Speaker 5 (56:01):
Yeah, I mean I do. I do, because when you
think about it foundationally, you are setting yourself up to
talk about the tough stuff before you get married. When
people get engaged, they're all about the wedding, right, They're
focused on the flowers, then the bridesmaid's dresses and the
guest list and all of those things that, like over
(56:21):
the course of a marriage are just irrelevant. And so
if you have a prenup, you're sitting down and you
are intentionally consciously having these conversations about what do we want,
what are our life pals, like, how do we want
to split finances? Do we want to have a joint
bank account? If I start a business, is that my business?
How are we going to fund that business? And I
(56:44):
think that is really important, and especially if you're on
your first marriage, like are we going to have kids?
And like is one of us going to stay home
and care for those children? These are all really important topics.
I think Kelly, in your situation too, where I know
you talked about how your fans wouldn't sign the prenup,
(57:05):
I think that's such a red flat. The fact that
he didn't want to sign the prenup tells you you're
not aligned, You're not on the same page. What is
he really in it for? Right? And so I think
we need to view prenups as being this opportunity to
of alignment.
Speaker 1 (57:22):
That's another time for bigger conversation. We were definitely not aligned.
Julia Rogers from Hello prenapp call her any time. Thank
you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Thank you ready to find yourself. I'm kidding exactly what yourself.
Speaker 4 (57:40):
On your on Hello, prenup, do you have like a questionnaire?
I think would also help for people to literally the
person who's giving the prenup or wanting the person to
sign the prenup should have like what you just went through,
like top twenty questions to ask even before you hire
a prenup attorney. I think we need to make this game, Kelly.
You know how they have those like love card games
or like emotional games, Like we need to do questions
(58:03):
to ask before even putting a ring on it, like
for real.
Speaker 5 (58:06):
This is we have eeers. Oh yes, I love it.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
That's helpful.
Speaker 5 (58:13):
All the articles, all the information.
Speaker 3 (58:15):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
Thank you, Julia, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (58:18):
This was so much fun. It was great to chat.
Speaker 3 (58:20):
With you both. Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Cheryl is and she's so great. She's great, so great.
She has such good energy and it does. I just
love that she's.
Speaker 4 (58:32):
I honestly I bow down to any attorneys whatsoever they
have to deal with this, because this ain't fun.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
But also just like the way that she's communicating, and
I mean at the price point that you know, you
can be transparent and be safe and protect and provide
for yourself and also be in love.
Speaker 2 (58:49):
There's there's nothing wrong with having both.
Speaker 4 (58:51):
And like I said, you have to separate the two
like money is not love whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Thank you Julia for coming on the podcast and answering
all of our questions about prenups. It was a lot
of great information for the listeners to hear, and I
hope if you knew nothing think about prenups that you're
leaving the conversation with a little more knowledge. Cheryl, this
was so great getting to chat with you. I know
the listeners are going to get so much advice from
both of us as they're looking for love.
Speaker 4 (59:18):
So if you guys are wanting some relationship or dating advice,
or if you're single and ready to find love again,
call us at one eight four four four I Do Pod.
That's eight four four four four three six seven sixty three,
or email us at ID pod at iHeartRadio dot com.
Follow us on Instagram at I Do Part two Pod,
(59:41):
I Do Part two. That's the number two pod, I
Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcasts where falling in love
is the main objective.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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