November 28, 2024 • 60 mins
In this classic episode, Bridger doesn't retaliate when Zach Woods (The Office, Silicon Valley), burdens him with an unwanted gift. The two discuss outfit choices, reverse stalking, and the long shadow of Bruno Mars.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Well, I invited you here, thought I made myself perfectly clear.
When you're a guest to my home, you gotta come
to me empty. And I said, no, guests, your presences
(00:29):
presents enough. I already had too much stuff, So how
did you dare to surbey me?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome to? I said, no gifts. I'm Bridger Wineker. We're
in the backyard. What is happening? I've been to Trader
Joees this morning. I went to three grocery restores. I
gave myself permission to buy the expensive coffee and that
it fell apart immediately, and I ended up at Trader Joe's.
(01:09):
There I had an orange slice from the sample lady.
I went around the aisle once and she was gone.
The entire stand was gone. She was gone, completely surreal experience. Rip.
Let's get into the podcast. Oh, I love today's guest.
He is just so funny. It's Zach woods Zech. Welcome to.
(01:32):
I said, no gifts, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
You feel like that woman was dead or I appeared
that she was just a hallucination conjured by the bad coffee.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I hope it's a hallucination, but I think she's been erased.
She's been disappeared.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, unmade. But you know, can I just paint a
picture for your listeners because you can't hear this through
the microphone. But Bridger is wearing them very understated and
beautiful outfit that matches his surroundings perfectly. Where they're this
kind of like I don't I'm not good at describing colors,
but it's this kind of like warm magenta shirt and
(02:06):
then this beautiful green jacket, and then there's these I
don't know, I guess it's not that rewarding to hear
someone describe colors over the over the internet, but it's
very beautiful and I want to appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I'm in kind of a brown maroon. And then
kind of I've thought about the color of this stracket
before and I thought dark turquoise or is it teal?
And I kind of landed on pacific. I feel like
it's the color is pacific. Yeah, because teal? What is teal?
I always think of a Pontiac grand am when I teal,
(02:39):
it's like a it's more of a turquoise.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, Teal sounds like like the color of a car
that a father is distant from his children in. Yeah,
do you feel that you dress in colors that reflect
your mood or that are aspirational, Like will you dress
in a better mood than you are in? Or do
you dress in the mood that you are in? Does
that make sense?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That does make sense. If my mood is usually at
a negative four, to get to a zero with an
outfit would be incredible. So I guess I uh, it's
just kind of the four things that are clean in
my closet and that I haven't worn too recently. I'm
getting tired of all my clothes. Oh interesting, I mean
this shirt I've probably owned for fourteen years. Wow, let's wrong.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Take care of it, I would say somewhat. You know
Esther Peril. They're like, oh, of course, okay, So I
have mixed feelings. I think she's brilliant, but I also
think she's too focused on power. But anyway, but this
is not a referendum an Esther Perrel. Esther Perrel in
one of these books, talked about how she talked about
how people who have affairs aren't having affairs because they're
(03:47):
sick of their partner. It's that they're sick of the
version of themselves that they are with their partner. Which
I thought was interesting. And I don't know when you
were just saying, like, I'm getting sick of my clothes.
I feel periodically that I'll have the feeling of like
wanting to be a different person familiar with and I
will look to accessories to achieve that transformation.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And what sort of accessories.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Candles, scented candles. I'm obsessed with SCENTI candles, different incenses,
a lot of scent stuff, different throws, quilts. It's a
lot of kind of like old lady paraphernalia that I'll try.
I guess that's what I'm trying to transition into. But
it's such a it's such a slam dungk for capitalism.
I guess that that that the impulse for personal growth
(04:34):
immediately off ramps to shopify.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yes, so what sort of candles are you getting into?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I will get DS andderga, I will get oh my god,
there's this one h perfume. I don't know if you're
supposed to say perfume A or perfumer. I don't know.
I'm not French, contrary to popular belief, but U yeah,
so those I like, I got this incense that smells
like coffee and chocolate because usually you hear incense and
(05:06):
you think it smells like a predatory yoga and.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Of course, of course just a strange perfume smell.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yes, yeah, like a kind of peturely with a whiff
of misogyny in there, and and but but this is
a coffee one that smells like coffee and chocolate.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And it's purely chocolate and coffee. Yeah, there's no that's
not confusing for you. For me, that's setting off a
lot of hunger bells. That's making me think, why am
I not eating? Like there's nothing in the oven baking.
I think I would be baffled. But for you, it works.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
You know, someone told me, like I had a when
I first got my dog. The trainer who we were
working with, said, don't get one of those laser pointers
that you point on the ground and they bat at
because of exactly what you're describing. It's like this insatiable
you want to get to the laser, but you can
never get to the laser if you're the dog. And
that's basically you're saying. It would be like a laser punter.
It's like I want to get to that smell, but
there is no there's no end of the tunnel. There's
(06:03):
just the constant tease. I think I like enticement maybe
more than contentment.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Oh interesting. For you it is the journey, and for
me it's purely the goal. The goal should be the beginning.
For me, you want to be sated. I just want
to be teased into a tizz someone. You know what
I realized recently. This is gonna make me sound again
like such an old lady. But I think it's jasmine,
you know, the smell of jazzure. To me, that is
(06:31):
like the smell of a crush, where it's like when
you walk past jasmine, you just want to get closer
and closer. You want to like get into the center
of the thing, but you can't. Like what are you
gonna do, like smash your head into.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
The bush, Like it won't work, and anyway, even if
you did it, you wouldn't get you there. And that
feeling of like it's like a I don't know anything
about math, but I remember from like seventh grade asimp
toads or whatever, where it's like the line is always
getting closer and closer and closer. I never can right,
And I think that's like a crush. That's my coffee, inceign.
That's the smell of jasmine. It's the unreal unrealizable.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
There right, you just need the carrot dangling non stop, yes,
just never able to quite munch on it.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Let's hope.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I need a hope and I need results. I just
need a result at the moment I begin or I'm
giving up. We should go into business together. We cover
each other's fine combination. Right, let's get us on shark tank. Well,
we both do our own thing. I think would be
very successful.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think we would do.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Now, do you like a treat? I mean, like, if
you were to have a chocolate, would you be happy?
Or is it you're just fine with the smell?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
No?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I like it very much. And I used to mainline,
just go straight up garbage. I used to go to
I lived in a hell's kitchen, and I would go
to the deli at two in the morning and I
would get like those tiny little apple pies wrapped in
wax paper.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh like the uh what are those called?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Little something?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah? Like a little friendly or something.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, little friendlies, little compulsions. And I would eat those
and then I would but I would also order a
cheese sandwich and sometimes like a sleeve of Pebveriage Farm
cookies and then what was left of the cheese sandwich
I would put on top the cheese I would put
on the pie like some sort of like.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
This is very taxi driver, your simple shepherd and taxi
driver with the cheddar on the apple pie.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
You calling me simple shepherd and taxi driver is the
nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That's what That's what I want from someone. I want
someone to tell me that, and I'm not getting it.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Bridger me and the your simple.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Results just as for it, and you got the result
I mean me asking for is more, Travis Bickle in
the situation, the desperation, the the need, and uh you
have this cool You're putting the cheese sandwich over the
top of a disgusting little apple pie. Good for you.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Do you feel like you have an inner Travis Bickle?
Do you feel like there's that like, under the right
social conditions, you could lose your shit, shave yourself into
a mohawk, start like practicing with guns in the mirror,
Like do you think there's a version of you that
I want to.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Believe that I have that the possibility of me becoming
a completely dangerous person. Even a sliver of that would
be so exciting. I think I have an maybe an
inner king of comedy where I could kidnap and then,
you know, try to make a hero my own.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Who would you kidnap?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh, that's a great question. Who let me think?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It's hard?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Right? Yeah? And it feels dangerous.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I know that you're committing to it. It's it's definitely
undermining the result. In other words, if you if you
articulate your desire, you're warning them.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
You're absolutely warning them. And then I mean, but then
it becomes more of a challenge because now I have
to They've really told their security this is person to
watch out for.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Someone told me this thing, and I have no idea
if it's true, but that like some guy was stalking
Steven Spielberg because he thought that Steven Spielberg wanted him
to make love to him, and they like found him
with like Jurassic Park shit in his car. And I
don't know if that's true or not, but I remember
thinking how utterly terrifying that would be so scary to
(10:24):
not just have his stocker bit to stalker who thinks
that you're waiting for them eagerly. Just seems like truly harrowing.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
That reminds me of did you ever hear about David
Letterman's stalker who was saying that she claimed David Letterman
was stalking her?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Oh wow, real?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I mean a great, nice reverse stalking attempt, which nobody
saw that coming.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I'm not stalking you. You're stalking me.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Stop stalking me. Stop taking me to court.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, you're obsessed with me. You won't stop calling the
police on me.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Interesting, it's a very smart move. It's shrewd.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It's really I'm trying to think who I would want. Okay,
let's do it this way. You can kidnap someone. They're
dead already. I'm not saying you're gonna kill some but
I'm saying, so you're safe from incriminating.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Right, So now a grave robber, So who would you
they're still a grave would you rob?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
They're in exchange for the life of the woman who
gave you the orange slice, they are re animated and
give it directly into your possession.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Right right? Okay, somebody dead who I would want to
kidnap and keep in my home.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
That's what we're looking Yes, and I'll try to think
about it too.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Okay, I'm going to say, do you know who? Oh?
I mean, the real problem here is I don't know
any celebrity notes you can describe, just like I'm so
bad celebrities me too.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
That's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I panic. I mean, there's a full segment of this
podcast we do sometimes with celebrities. I'm like, I don't
know who any of these people are.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
It's a mitzvah, It's a mitzvah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Who would you take that as? I'm like, who has died?
Who are some people who have died in the last
twenty years?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
David Bowie, David Bowie.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Prince, But these are so obvious. I would, of course,
I'd love to have David Bowie around the house.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Of course, who wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I would take Prince at any point. I mean, the
things you would get into with Prince, I mean, it
would be it every day would be a sexual adventure.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
This is true heresy. And I'm ashamed of myself, and
I don't think I'm right. I don't understand Prince. Oh, okay, well,
I'm not proud of Zach, but it's true.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
How much of Prince have you listened?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
To I not a ton, okay, but partly because when
I have I have a frightening feeling of incomprehension.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well there's I mean, first of all, there is so much.
I mean, he was producing music from the seventies until
eight years ago, and once we get into the nineties
and thousands, it gets a lot spottier. So there's some
I think it's hard. It's hard to penetrate his catalog.
But what what sort of music do you listen to?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I like that song he did about one two Princes
will destroy You, That's what I said.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's a sort of biographical. I think, what is that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
About?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
It's about a rich guy and then there's a poor
guy and they're both fighting for the love of the
same woman.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Wait, what is I have no idea. What talk about one?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Two Princes will destroy You?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
He's singing the spin Doctors, and I was thinking about
the spin Doctors this morning.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
But I assume that that was gooes written by Prince.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Of course, it's about you know, he was kind of
a ghostwriter. It was that true. Yeah, he wrote a
lot of songs that he would just give to friends
under a different like a name like Christopher Smith or something.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Under the name Paul Simon.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
But he wrote all Graceland.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Amazing. I uh, I remember hearing that Bruce Springsteen wrote
Hungry Heart for the Ramones, which I don't know if
that's true.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I leave that for one second. I like to tell
why do you know what you need to do? The
album that got me into Prince was Dirty Mind. It's
like it's a little bit more, it's more bare bones,
sounds a bit fresh. It's to be honest, sounds really fresh.
It's Prince getting fresh for once in his life. The
(14:15):
song when You Were Mine is one of the all
time great songs. Listen to that one. That's the one
that'll get you into it. It'll break your heart.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
It sounds like he might have taken that from Bruno Mars.
I should have brought you followers. So if he's plagiarizing
Bruno Mars, I don't want to support that.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well who I mean the significance of Bruno Mars on music.
I mean, the impact he's had on artists from in
every genre cannot.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Be the Miles Davis of music. I've always said that about.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I've always you know, Bruno Mars from I mean I
think he's impacted me in other ways too, just in
daily life.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Spiritually, he's a very I mean, there are people who
seem and I'm I'm sure this isn't true, because he's
a person just like everyone else. There are people who
seem so like luminously untroubled in their public persona, where
they just seem healthy, happy together, you know, and and
(15:17):
they don't wreak of that kind of sociopathic ambition even
though they've somehow created empires for themselves, right. And I
guess I think I'm not that familiar with Bruno Mars,
but in my head he sort of falls into that category.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I've never heard a Bruno Mars song from beginning to end,
not once.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Because you were crying so hard by the middle.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm sobbing him on the floor. Turn off. I can't
listen to another minute of what I should have brought you,
I should have bought you, I should have bought you
flowers or brought brought well. I mean it either way works.
It's a really annoying one.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think that I literally only know that one Bruno
Mars song at least.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What's the really annoying one?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Oh my gosh, A lot.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Just the way you are. Oh, there's one that's more
of a vagacy number, kind.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Of a locked out of heaven ay magic.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I actually do like, how have we not gotten to
the one I know? Ooh now?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
And I'm just looking at all these.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Other uptown funk. Uptown Funk Funk is the one that
I'm thinking about. An uptown funk, of course, is the
one that's impacted generations. Not many people bought the single,
but the ones that did every What they say is
everyone who bought that single became a band that influential.
I believe that they said that about Bruno Mars.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Now, okay, so David Bowie Prince, those are people who
but like, in terms of deep cuts, reanimated celebrities that
you would like to possess.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Re animated celebrities, Okay, I have to think of one
celebrity there simply must be Actually I can think of.
I put a celebrity that is alive that I wouldn't
mind bringing home. Dian Waste.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Oh wow, what a good choice.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I would love to have her around the house.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yes, because I feel that like she would be a
good barrier between despair and arrogance. In other words, if
you got too low, Diane, Weast would intervene. And if
you got too high, Diane, she would cut you down,
but not in a way like she would be like
a trimming she'd trim your tree. She wouldn't lumberjack, you know,
she wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, it would feel healthy, and it'd be like, Okay,
I'm going to I'm going to be the same person,
but better. Right, she's at an age that you could
probably you know, help her out. You would feel like
you were helping each other.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I once when I first I'm bringing my dog up
a lot. When I first got my dog, I was
talking to my therapist about it, about getting him my dog,
and I said, well, you know, they want us to
foster him first, but who are we kidding? But I
don't know, you know, it's like I'm going to keep him.
There no way I'm going to give him back, but
they want us to foster. And she looked at me
(18:04):
in the eyes and she went, everything's a foster. And
I was like, wow, that's right, Like you don't get
to keep playing. And I feel like that's like something
I can easily imagine coming out of Diane West's mouth.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You know what I meant kind of a whisper.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yeah, and everything's a foster. Everything's a foster.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I love her voice.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
She's beautiful in every way that a person can be beautiful.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Did we ever get to you with a celebrity?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Weirdly, the first one that came to my head and
I wouldn't want to possess her, but I would want
her company is Olympia Ducacus.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh fantastic, right, excellent, joy.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah. I just rewatched Moonstruck and I was like, that
woman is incredible, irresistible. So that's one. I think another
one would be I'm trying to think, oh fuck, oh fuck,
oh fuck.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's hard. Anytime you're asked to recall information, the brain
shuts down. I don't know why that is. Jimmy Carter,
Jimmy Carter, I love Jimmy Carter, Sweet Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Carter, good man.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Wow. Well, as much as I mean, we're clearly making
excellent conversation out of just trying to think of a person.
You and I can't recall a person. I mean, I'm
me especially, It's just I barely know the two names
of the people present with me right now. I'm just
blanking on everything. So we're gonna move on from the
subject because there's something more important I need to talk
(19:37):
to you about. Jeez, I look, I was happy to
have you on the podcast. Yeah, I was excited. I'll
say I was excited. Zac's wonderful. There's no chance anything
could possibly go wrong. And so you know, I've been
doing this podcast for a while. Most episodes go okay.
So I was a little surprised the podcast is called
(19:59):
I said, no gifts, right, it's a little I don't
I don't even know that. I'd say I was a
little surprised. I would say I was floored. I was
shocked when you came trotting into my backyard holding this gorgeous,
shimmering pink bag, which and I don't want to I
don't want to assume, but I'm going to what it's
(20:20):
a gift for.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Me, that's right. Thank you for describing my walk as
a trot. Very few people understand my sort of a
questrian elegance and the way that you obviously do. Thank you.
I think of myself as a dressage horse first and foremost,
and then secondly, I can't help it. I want to
ruffle people's hair. I want to just I don't want
(20:44):
to violate their boundaries, but I want to, you know,
challenge the status quo. I'm lawless like that viture.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Okay, yeah, the ruffling the hair. It's kind of an
uncle ergry.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Can I tell you I was once on a train
like this is maybe not this is pretty tangential. I
was once on a train and a man. This is
in my younger days. A man came up to me
and I'm like ninety five percent sure he was flirting,
and I was so flattered, and I'm straight, but this
(21:18):
guy was so charming. And at one point I was
wearing a tie, and when he was getting off the train,
he did this thing where he reached out and sort
of tugged on my tie a little bit, oh, not
a lot, just like it was sort of like half
straightening it, half giving it, like a little tug right.
And I remember thinking, if I wasn't straight, I would
(21:40):
be falling into your arms.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It was so the most erotic thing a person could
possibly do.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It was amazing. It was like carrying assertive. It like
sort of trans It crossed the boundary of strangers and
physical distance. But it wasn't scary. I was just like
you are a.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Master the amount of yeah, that little bit of caring
and just wanting you to be better. Yes, yes, also
like clearly being like, oh this guy looks good, but
he could look better.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yes, And I'm gonna like give it a little I
don't know I was like that.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I mean, I'm lightheaded thinking about it. I get it,
mean too, I wonder how often he's doing that. I mean,
he's probably imprisoned by now.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, he strangled someone with their own tie.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think about that a lot, Like being in public.
I'm like, I wonder if I could just ask a
stranger because they have no bias, and just be like,
what do you think of my outfit? You can say
whatever you want because you're not getting that from one
else in your life. No one else is going to
give you the cold truth. But if I walk up
to somebody in the grocery store and just say rate
me from A to F, I'm going to get the truth.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I do tend to think, and this might just be
my own bias or a sort of projected lonesomeness or something.
I generally think people want to connect and that the
barrier to that is safety. It's feeling like this person's
going to hurt me. They're going to either take advantage
of me, or they're going to hurt my body, or
(23:06):
they're going to do something. But if you present as
someone who is not out to cause harm, I think
people might really take you up on the opportunity to
have a frank conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
It's worth trying.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Maybe try it.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And people love giving their opinions. Yes, that's right. It's
like asking. It's a miniature survey and their the stakes
are so low for them. Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
And I also think if it's like if it's like
I like your clothes, although they might create an expectation
of reciprocity in a way that's not really that's true.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, And I don't want to, I don't need to.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Just got to be like, I need your opinion.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
And I'm going to walk away. I'm not going to
say a thing to you.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
It's going to be a cold interaction. But you are
going to help me, that's nice. I've thought about that,
and I think a genuinely good service would be a
person who comes to your home and tells you if
it smells or not, Oh that's or get your car,
because you know, when you live in a house, or
you're in your car. You're used to these things and
you don't know if it smells bad. But for somebody
to come over, I give them fifty dollars and they
(24:06):
say this place smells horrible, right, or like determines what
the smell is. What a great service that would be.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
That's a really good idea. I think sometimes if you've
been away from your house for a few weeks and
then you come back and you're like, oh, interesting, this
is the experience of a stranger walking into my house.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, and sometimes that can be bad.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, it's startling, it is, it's.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Start familiar, becomes slightly off, but it's like because the
sense memory is there.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Right, it's uncanny valley. Have you ever seen one of
those mirrors that reverses the You know, when you look
at a mirror, you're seeing the reverse image, but there
are certain mirrors that then reflect the image back, so
you're seeing yourself as others see you.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Have you ever looked at the mirror?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
How does that How that feels like it's defying physics?
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I think it's a It like reflects the image off
of several different planes to arrive back at.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I mean, but when you do see yourself, what is
that the other flipped around?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, terrifying, it's a little I used to talk to
an X of mine and say, I think the scariest
thing would be to wake up next to you and
not find a different person there, but to find you
but your eyes are slightly further apart, or like your
nose is like half an inch longer, or like just you,
but plus some undeniable thing that can't be accounted for.
(25:28):
That to me just seems like a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, because there's nothing you can do about it, and
then you're thinking about it constantly, and you have the
memory of the old you, and it's an impostor you're
now living with an impostor.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I guess. So I think my friend's making a TV
show about this very thing.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
No, you're kidding.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
No, Yeah, I think he has. But it's a very
scary thought, very very scary.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, because the trust is broken.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I remember when I was in summer camp as a
little kid, someone said to me, what if what I
see when I say green is what you your green
is my red? But language prevents us from and it
threw me into a depression. I remember walking around day
camp at the Lawrenceville School, Like in between swim classes,
I was like a little character from a Woody Allen
(26:13):
movie or something, just being like, oh fuck, Like language
is like we're all siloed in our own language prisons.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I think the thing that kids go through, because I
remember going through this being like, oh what if I mean,
we just cannot express to another person what my reality is?
What if we think it's the same thing? And then
I mean that just explodes everything in your world?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
What do you think? This is where I feel like
the most sure fire away I know, to tunnel under
all of the barriers. I think is like often the
night time pretentious, but I really do feel this way
is like art physical touch, and then like certain kind
of conversations that aren't necessarily even about what you're saying explicitly,
(26:56):
but as much as the sort of energetic loop that
exists between the two of you, Like I feel like
there's so few ways to be able to like get
through all the shrubbery to the other person, like for you,
like for me. So I think a lot of my
most intimate experiences have been in audiences.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Or or making an audience memory.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah because it's yeah, because I feel so close to
these people I've never even met before, but I feel
so profoundly understood and understanding of right or or sometimes
if I make something too then I can feel that
same thing if I feel like I've adequately expressed some
inexpressible thing.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Do you feel like for you, like, where do you
feel like.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
The kind of where does the Berlin Wall fall down
in your life?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Where things where it feels like I'm purely communicating with
another person.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yeah, we're that language barrier even when you're speaking the
same language dissipates a little bit and you feel like, oh,
I know this person, this person knows me.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I think it's when one is when I don't like
the taste of something and they also don't I basically
I'm always looking. I'm always looking for people to basically
when somebody else doesn't like the same thing as me, yes,
that's when I'm especially when it's I mean, this happens
a lot recently actually, because there's so much on the internet.
(28:11):
There's so much hype about everything and everything is the
second coming of whatever, And then you go and experience
and you're like, oh am I an alien? I don't
I did not have and then you meet a friend
and you quietly talk about it and you have the
same It's like, oh my god, so okay, I feel you.
I like you. At least our reality exists, even if
(28:31):
the huge one doesn't fit for us. It's true.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
It's such a relief because it can feel so isolating
to be on the outside of a consensus that can
feel so.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Weird, full alien, especially.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Among people who you love and respect and they're all
in agreement and you're just thinking what is wrong with me?
I always think it's so interesting what we've collectively decided
is fun. Like like I was at this near the
I guess it was like the Staples Center or something,
and there's like.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
All these loud lights.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
These lights are so crazy and it sounds everywhere, and
it's like, or you go to Vegas or like or
someplace like that, and you're like, this is what we've all,
as like a global economy decided is fun. And to
me it just feels like hell, it's a complete Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Las Vegas, Oh my god. I mean, I can last
half an hour before my body is just screaming.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
That's just to say you are screaming.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And I mean I was in New York last week
and I was I had to walk through Times Square
a few times, and it's it's the exact same thing
where it's just like, who is getting anything out of
this experience?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It's like, yeah, it's interesting. I guess in my own
life too, can maybe it's like mistaking numbness for fun,
Like sometimes I guess in my own life in different ways,
I will sort of make myself numb and think of
it as recreational, you know, for shopping or the eating
the pies or the way whatever. It's like it's highly
(30:01):
stimulating and that is relieving. And then so I think
it sort of categorize its fun in my brain. But
the truth is it's just about kind of comaing myself.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's very much like pushing down on the wound. Yeah,
very just like holding it so the pain feels different.
At least this is my entire life at this point.
I mean, I need a lobotomy because I'm like, oh,
I don't know that I can experience fun anymore. I
don't know that that's a thing. But the rare time
that it does happen, I mean, I'm describing depression, but
(30:33):
when it does happen, what a relief when you're like,
oh my god, I can laugh at something. Something can
still make me laugh. Or I saw Godzilla recently. I
heard that was great, did not expect the movie. I
was jumping in my seat. I was scared of Godzilla.
Oh I couldn't believe it. So there are occasionally times
where I'm like, oh, I'm not completely numb to everything.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
My father worked at a mental hospital when he was
in his twenties, and he said, this is back when
there was less oversight. Maybe they're still not oversight, but anyway.
It was in I think New Hampshire, and he said
he didn't have a degree at this planet on it
was just like an orderly and he took the most
depressive cases, the people who were really struggling, and loaded
(31:15):
them all into a van and drove to an airport.
I think it was in Vermont where there was one
of those landing strips where the planes come like screaming
down right above, you know what I mean. And he
parked the van and he had all of them get
out and lie on top of the van, in on
the hood, and then they just lay there while these
planes came like like over top of them. And he
(31:37):
said by the time they left, these people who were
like catatonically depressed were like bouncing off the walls. They
were so like hyped up. It's like they were scared
of God's ill. It was like they were just like, oh,
like they felt alive again, of.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Course, because it didn't feel like all of their nerve
endings were burnt.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Off, right right, I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Wow. I mean God blessed putting them all, all of
these lives in danger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
But I think also, like another thing about that is
like I have a friend who's an acting teacher who
like really kind of helped me learn about acting a
lot named Anya Saffer, who I adore, and she we
were talking about crying, like in scenes where you have
to cry or whatever. She was like, something I'd tell
my students a lot, because she would teach college kids too.
She said, is that I think if you could remove
all the social conditioning and repression and whatever else, she's like,
(32:25):
underneath all of that. I think most people are always
underneath that, on the verge of laughing or crying. Oh wow,
You're always sort of like hovering on the precipice of
one of those things, right, She's like, I don't know
if that's true or not, but I've found it. I've
thought about it a lot since then.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I can't believe that. I mean, we're we can't get
into it right now because I will start crying. But
that's about a month ago. I was we're now two
months ago. I was at a stop lines like, I
haven't cried in a while. I wonder what that feels like.
And then my dog died like last week, but it
was about a month long thing. And we will not
talk about this because I'll start crying. But oh, I'm
(33:04):
I'm definitely able to cry. And it's I mean, what
an experience, what a horrible feeling. It's crazy. But I
think that that is always there, and I guess it's
a good thing.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
It's there. Yeah, I mean I think it's first of all,
I get it if you don't want to talk about
something so gutting on your characters.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
We can't cry on this podcast. It's simply it's not
a thing to do.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
But then again, there's no gifts allowed either, and what
do we have here. I mean, what I was going
to say about that is just like and we obviously
your podcast will cut it out if you want. But
I just think I really hate it when there's sort
of unanswerably painful things like the loss of a loved
one like a dog, and people try to shove their
silver lining down your throat to make them feel better.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Someone did say something to me that I was like,
where it's like, the pain you experience is proportion to
the love that you felt for the creature. Yes, And
my friend who lost his dog said this thing that
like made me cry, where he was like, buy the ticket,
take the ride, And I was like, oh, boy.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
That's that's what it is. I mean, I yeah, I
mean like I've never really grieved for I mean, I've
had grandparents die that sort of thing where it felt
like it was time or almost time, But for this,
this is the first time as an adult that this
has happened to me. And I mean it's just the
most gutting feeling. But I've like I've been kind of
having realizations about all of this, and what I kind
(34:32):
of tried to frame it as is just it's the
compression of all of that joy, the nine years of
joy I had, is just suddenly being pushed through into
a small thing that I get to keep, and of
course that's going to be painful. It's it's just like
all of that is just getting crushed into a thing
that I get to keep. But in the process that's
(34:53):
going to be horrible, and it has been. But what
a wonderful little gift that Adie gave to me and
my boyfriend. Yeah, not a fun experience and totally worth it.
Of course I would do it a million times again
to have her, But it's not fun.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I think I've never heard it described that way. It's
almost like when people take their blankets from the winter
and shrink them down into the little like this is
like you said something very beautiful and poetic, and now
I'm framing it in terms of the container story. But
I think that that idea of like a resizing of
It's like the amount of love, the magnitude of love
doesn't change, but the kind of packaging is shrunk to
(35:35):
the past or something.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Right, it's like a.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Complicated I know what you mean. And I remember talking
to somebody once who was like studied protracted grief, Like
whatever the fuck that is? Like he was like, oh no, no, no, no,
it was this his girlfriend studied like a pathological grief,
which I guess is grief that extends endlessly.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Right, it's not all grief, I feel. I mean, it's
an endless well right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
But I guess one thing he said that I thought
was interesting that he was quoting her. I didn't meet her,
but she was that often people who grieve intensely for
a long time, the grief occupies the vacancy that the
person or dog or whatever left. So it's like, rather
than just have this sort of cavity, the act of
grieving takes up some of the emotional real estate where
(36:21):
all of that engagement and love and everything used to be.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
That makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Yeah, I thought it was like helpful and interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Anyway, I'm really sorry you're going through it.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
That's okay. Let's talk about these people shrinking blankets. They
shrink them for a convenience.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
They shrink them down. I mean, you can get it's
basically vacuum bags.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It's like they're not like putting them through the wash.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
No, those would be I mean I was like.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Oh, so they're ruining of the thing they owned so
they could save space. Okay, good for them.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
It's at the end of every winter you smash all
your plates.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I don't have the space. I simply don't have the space.
We've got to destroy these things.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Too hot to have these plates.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Okay, well, this is I mean, the way you've distracted
from the gift. Sorry, I mean you've throw I mean
you've taken us through a loop. We're running out of
time here. We should open the gime gift. Let's get
into this gift I'm pulling out.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It requires explanation.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Okay, So what I'm seeing so far is it's like
a little book or journal that says children on it.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Now I understand to the listeners, one grown man giving
another grown man a book which has just a brown
cover that says children on it when the conversation started
with kidnapping does not bode particularly well.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
What is the chitty chitty bang bang characters of the
child snatcher or something?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Yeah, I promise to not be that chitty chitty bank
bank character. That is not the intent or content of
this gift. But if it's raising alarm bells for you
on as you're listening, I understand, but don't worry, it'll
be Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
What is this?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
This is a book of famous historical figures when they
were little.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Kids, Oh my god. And it's a mix.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
It's like it'd be like Neil Armstrong and Asama bin
Laden and the name of the kid is on the
next page, so you can look and be like, who
is that. I think that's Winston Churchhill, and then you
turn the page and you find out if you were
right or wrong. But you get to see like Oppenheimer
or like I think Manson's in there. But then also
like musicians like in Lewis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Okay, right, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
It's like just seeing all these people who had this
outsize kind of like effect on the world, which as
you describe Bruno Mars for example, but you know before
they were any of the things that they would be known.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
For, right, I mean, and before you describe it to me.
I flipped open the book and it said Mick Jagger
on the page, and I looked at the not knowing
how it worked.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I looked at this photo and it's like kind of
like it's probably Chekhov or something. It's just like very nine.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Oh, I don't know who this is.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Yeah, that's the other thing. It'll make you feel dumb
because some of the people.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Use Charles Edouard Jannaire or gree Yeah, I don't know.
Eighteen eighty seven to nineteen sixty five, my dufus. So
did you look at the real make Dagger picture. Let's see,
I should look at it. Let's see here. Okay, there's
the mixed jack no one love. The teeth are there. Yeah,
the teeth were ready to go, and so is the
cunning in his eyes. Oh yeah, he's ready to like
(39:23):
take over the world. He's ready to play Wembley. Did
they ever play Wembley? Oh? I hope? So? I mean
what were they doing?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
What were they doing?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
What could they have possibly been? Okay, well tell me
why you brought this? This is so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
I think it's a beautiful book, and I.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Think Osama bin Laden.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Okay, there he is. It's so sad to look at it.
It'll say which one's him. But there's the bin Laden
family altogether having a good time. It's so weird.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Wow. Yeah, just I mean they look like the Partridge
family or something.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah, isn't it streme? So western eyed too? It's not
like but I think I guess I was just trying
to think since we've never met something that I felt
like reflected stuff I'm oh shit, if you open the
front cover, the whole book is black and white. But no, no, no,
just the Jack of Party. It matches your outfit.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh it kind of does. Look how nice then?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
And the background this is beautiful. But I was going
to say, I think it reflects my what I hope
to cold in my head whenever I'm meeting anyone or
being met by someone, which usually happens at the same time.
It's just the kind of like delicate, vulnerable thing, especially
(40:35):
if like a pod, because I don't do that many podcasts,
partly because I feel shy and partly because I feel
like I'm not sure which version of myself I'm supposed
to bring.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
An interesting thing. Who you become on a podcast? Right,
it's like that you, but just like slightly cocained. It's like,
this is the person I wish I could be all
the time that I can think of things to talk about,
and then in public, I'm like everything I say is
too words long, and I can barely communicate with people.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I think the takeaways you just have to start doing
a little bit of cocaine all the time.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
There's a reason I don't do cocaine. It's because I
need it and it will ruin me.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I think, yeah, so it's just trying to something I'm
trying to do with varying results. Is it's funny like
when I did press in the past for like TV
shows that came out. I again talked to my therapist.
I was like, man, I feel like such a whore.
I just feel like, no disrespect to sex workers, but
I felt like a whore, like an old strumpet. And
(41:35):
just like I go out and I do myself deprecating
story and I'm just such a putts. But she's and
I don't know how to not feel like a dirty
little like I don't know sales boy, right, And she
said this thing I thought was so great. She was like,
when you go out onto one of these shows, just
like sit down and look at the host in the eye,
which is now we're looking at each other.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
The strongest eye contact two people could possibly have.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Well, there's no getting away from it, she said, try
and find something lovable about them, because then you can
have a moment of human warmth that exists on television
and it's not going to change the world, but it'll
be a nice little moment. And I and I think
not allowing the noise of my own self consciousness or
the situation to drown out the kind of little kid
(42:22):
versions of me or other people something I try to do.
In this case, it's very easy because you guys are
so lovely and it's a beautiful day and we're having
this really nice conversation. But then sometimes there'll be in
a situation where it's it's a real kind of olympic
feat to not become a shrieky nightmare version of yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
And that's kind of what you're known as, kind of
a shrieky nightmare. That's what people say about Zach Ones.
I'm having lunch with less moon vests. You're the last
person that's having lunch with less moonvess.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Our table at the pole a lounge is occupied, and
I'm going to throw a fit.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
H No, I understand that, And I also think, I mean,
podcasts are a little different because they can be more organic.
When you go on a late night show or whatever,
you've got four minutes in front of a weird audience
that's been standing outside in Times Square of Hollywood Boulevard,
that you're like, who am I entertaining here? Why are
any of us.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Here, right, if you're lucky, they think you're Zach Braff
and they give you some of his goodwill. But I
and it's pre interviews too. That's the other thing that's
so fascinating is like the pre interview thing where you
sort of vet stories in advance.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Do the exact thing that's going to happen with the host, right,
but you're speaking with the producer first. Fascinating things.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
It's an interesting thing. I remember I never read this
book because I'm too lazy, but there's a George Saunders
book about writing. My friend Brandon Gardner, who I write
everything we work on together with, he told me that
that George Saunders says that if you're outlining, like for
a writer, yeah, it's almost like if you went on
a date with index cards with things that you were
(44:03):
going to say on the date, where it's like it
cuts you off from the present moment so that you're
not actually in a flow. You're just like holding fast
to your little like life social life preserver, right. And
I think like a pre interview is a little bit
like that, where it's like, okay, now I say this,
instead of just being like, what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Right. I mean it's literally there on cards in front
of your host.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yes, yes, yeah, it's You're right, it actually is on cards.
It's yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah. I feel like Loe's late night shows need to
get away from it. Let's get back to like those
seventies interviews where it's just beginning to end one conversation
with a person.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
That's a great idea. Those old Dick Kavic shows incredible,
so good.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, we've got to play a game.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Let's play a game.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
I would keep you here all day, but yes.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
It's fun. I'm having a nice time. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
A wonderful time. Thank you for being here. New Year.
Let's play. Let's start with gift or a curse. I
need a number between one and ten from you.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Eight.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Okay, I have to do some like calculating. While I
do this, you can recommend, promote, do whatever you want.
I'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
So Brandon and I. Brandon the guy was just talking about,
made this stop motion show with Mike Judge called In
the Know, and it takes place in an NPR studio
and it's made with these crazy, beautiful stop motion puppets
that were made by the same people who did Guerma
del Toro's Pinocchio. And what's crazy about stop motion is
like each character is played by the person who voices them,
(45:28):
and then like thirty people all make each person come alive,
so you see little pieces of each of their personalities
in each of the puppets. And I think something that
I like about stories is that sometimes they can show
that people are more than one thing, that they're not
just one identity or one I'm making this sound so
(45:48):
heavy and it's like a goofy show about NPR and
like has a lot of dick jokes and stuff. So
but anyway, it's a there's all these characters that have
been done by all these puppeteers who are geniuses, and
I think it's I think it's a hopefully a warm
show and funny, and so I hope people watch it.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
It looks delightful, and any animation that's not CGI I'm
on board with. Yeah, when it feels at least like
humans were involved for part of the experience, it's always refreshing.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, it's not like a screensaver made by an AI,
right right, Yeah, And it's on January twenty fifth, It's
going to be on peacock.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Peacock, been watching the Traders on Peacock, So I've got
my subscription. Is that what we're calling these things? I
was going to say prescription, Yeah, but as.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Far as I gave you a peacock account.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Beautiful, everyone go watch that. My recommendation this week. I mean,
we talked about this already, so I might as well say.
There's a song called On and On by Long Pig
because it's such a wonderful song, old song. If you
want to just be devastated, go listen to this song.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
And long Pig I think was that a slang for human? Right?
They would call it long ping. Someone told me that
that it was like long pig. I don't know where
I heard that from, but I remember hearing that this
they call humans, or maybe was dead humans.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
He called humans? Who else? Who's calling the constable? Okay?
This is how we play gift a curse. I'm gonna
name three things. You're gonna tell me if there are
a gift or a curse and why, and then I'll
tell you if you're right or wrong? Are correct? Answers?
All right? Number one? This is from a listener named Parker.
Gift or a curse people who say goose pimples or
(47:23):
goose flesh instead of goose bumps.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Curse why because the morbid fascination with acne has to stop,
Doctor pimple popper, all this fucking stuff. It's like to me,
it's like one wrung below snuff films. I would prefer
you watch old sixteen millimeter of people being killed, thrill killed,
(47:47):
then watch that shit. It's it's sub human.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Excellent beginning to the game. Yeah, both of those are
disgusting ways to describe it. I don't need I don't
need those images in my head. And yeah, I really
would rather watch somebody be stabbed to death and watch
a pimple get exploded. No, thank you, thank you, take it,
thank you excellently played. Number two. This is from a
listener named Rebecca. Gift or a curse introducing two of
(48:15):
your friends from different circles and later discovering they've become
quite close and hang out often.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Well, this presupposes that you have more than one friend,
which puts me out of contention.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
For a huge stretch for you.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I can't. I think it's a gift. I think it's
definitely a gift that could feel like a curse depending
on how fragile you are in any given moment.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
It's beautiful when people love each other and you want
people to connect, especially people you adore. But if you're
feeling like a negligible little scrap or an unlovable goblin person,
then you might have abandonment anxieties that are activated by
two people who you know to be beautiful pairing up
without you.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
So, oh, Zach, wrong, a betrayal? Now you're better friends
than we are. What's happening to it? I set this
thing up. I didn't mean to set this thing up.
And now suddenly you're just doing things in the shadows
without me sanctioning it. You know, no, no, no, unless
I say I'm setting you to up as friends, yes,
(49:23):
that's a different story. But if we're just you know,
we kind of mushed together and then suddenly you're out
to dinner with these people and I didn't get invited.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
What's wrong with those perverts?
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Oh? Absolutely sick, disgusting perverted behavior. And although I actually
did this to a friend, but you know, I like
my you know, I like to dip my toe in perversion,
and so I'm okay to do it. But curse, so
you do lose until we hate to see it.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
I hate to see it.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Number three. This is from a listener named Mark gif
you a curse lottery tickets as gifts?
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Curse?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Why didn't say?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
I think I heard someone say that lottery tickets are
attacks on hope? And who wants to give your friend
a tax of any kind, let alone one on hope
as a gift. It's also like both you're probably statistically,
you're probably gifting disappointment and at best you're gifting the
(50:27):
least personal gift card that could possibly exist. At least
get them like a gift card to outback or something.
But don't be like, hey, this is probably worth less
than nothing. But also if it is something, it will
be totally anonymous, so correct totally curse. Yeah, it's either worthless,
(50:49):
this is what a lottery ticket is. It's either worthless
or it's going to ruin my life because that's what
we know with a lottery. So you either want me
to win the you know, the mega millions and then
suddenly my life is falling apart because I don't know
how to handle that much money, or I've got a
piece of paper that I just have to throw away,
and I've got the the little silver dust that I
(51:11):
had to scratch off with my fingernail. You know, I
never thought about it that way, because then you're right,
you win the lottery, and then you're like, probably you
become the kidnapping target. Oh completely, someone wants.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
You, so many people want you. I mean, you get
to be probably you could be on a lottery dream
home on HGTV, which I've consumed a decent amount of. Uh.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
But Joanna Gaines.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
That is not Joanna gains That's a man who I
don't know his name. Heavily tattooed man that wears a
lot of kind of flowy coats, and then he.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Helps people Chriss Angel. It's Angel. Crist Angel has pivoted.
He is helping people find homes. He he loves real estate.
Oh my god, that's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Ultimate mind Freak is an affordable mortgag.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
We have got to develop that for Chris. I don't
know what else he's doing.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
I don't know, man, we probably don't even know the
necromancy he's up too, and.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Should help people find homes in the Vegas area, exclusively
Vegas suburbs.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
I would honestly, for real, watch a show where magicians
help people find homes.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Oh my god, are you kidding me? That would be on.
I would just leave that on like one of those
fish tank screen savers. I would just be on my
TV all the time. Well, you got two out of three.
That's not so bad. It's really not too bad.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Sixty six.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
This is sixty six, and that's not an F. And
so you can, you know, go to community college and
get your grades up, but then maybe transfer to a
different school. You can do whatever you want with the
sixty six. There's no one stopping you. No, you don't
have to go to summer school. I refuse, you, absolutely refuse. Okay,
this is the final segment of the podcast. It's called
(52:50):
I said no emails. People write in to I said
no gifts at gmail dot com and they're desperate for answers.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I like that. I am confident and prescriptive.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah, and we're gonna need that today because let me
read this. It says, hello Bridger and guest, since you
answer every question perfectly. Oh that's very nice. I was
hoping you would offer flirt. Someone's flirting. Someone wants to
kiss me.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Stop trying to kiss him. Email is not the way
to do.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Stop chasing me around. I was hoping you would offer
your wisdom on the situation I found myself in. I
cannot think of anyone more qualified to help me with this. Okay,
the teasing continues. I started at a company just three
months ago, and last week my husband. Oh and now
there's a husband involved in the Oh.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
This is I mean, the forbidden. What is more enticing?
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Nothing's more enticing than me.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
There you go, and I got bad news writer. He's
results oriented. So if you're just trying to live in
a liminal space of provocation, look at not happening.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Last week, my husband and I found out we are
expecting our second child. While we are excited about this,
it was unplanned and the timing is tricky. As I'm
still new in my position, I'm struggling on the timing
and manner in which I share this news with my
new boss.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
I am also dealing with the common symptom of pregnancy illness,
and I'm concerned I will have to tell him sooner
rather than later do to how ill I've been Do
I schedule a meeting, tell him in passing, not tell
him and just call out sick for weeks after the birth.
Maybe a gift would be appropriate in this situation. I
anxiously am awaiting your response, and that's from Hannah. What
(54:29):
does Hannah do pregnant Hannah?
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Well, I will say I do think more women should
come to me for advice about prenatal issues, childcare, say
childless man, you're a pro. I'm definitely the guy who
who has sage advice. I'm basically a doula. I think
(54:52):
I think my first piece of advice would be to
ignore whatever I say next, and my second piece of
vice take the terrifying. I guess my advice would be
she wants to know when to tell him and how
to tell him right when.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
And how, and she's been at the job for three months,
so she's still kind of new girl in town.
Speaker 3 (55:15):
Intuitively, I feel like it should be someplace quiet where
it's just the two of them.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
In person, Okay, intimate.
Speaker 3 (55:22):
I'm not saying you have to like, you know, just
like an office would do, but I think just feeling
like you can connect. I think trying to like toss
that off in a casual way. If it were me
and I had something as like vulnerable in life altering
as that, and I was like, oh, ps for me,
it would make me feel a little bit like I'd
(55:43):
handled myself kind of roughly right, regardless of that other
person's response. So we can't control what Keith her boss
name is Keith, right, We can't control what Keith does.
He might react very poorly, he might be very supportive.
We don't know him well enough. It's only been a
few months, but we know that for Hannah's sake, Hannah
needs to do Hannah, and Hannah needs to approach this
(56:05):
in a situation that feels like it maximizes mental health
for Hannah.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
And the baby baby.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
I don't I'm not a fan of that.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Cares about this baby. It's created a.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Problem he he she whatever they This baby was not
planned and is an intruder in.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
The sho showed up three months into the job and
is now I mean, just causing chaos wherever it goes.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
It's undermining you professionally, and I do mean it.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
It wants the job.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
This baby's trying to snake you. I swear to God.
Look on monster dot com and if you see a fetus.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
And it's got an incredible profile, it's badgering Keith, look
at my CV. Is that what that's called?
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Yes, CVV, Yeah, applied for if you hear like an
email alert from within your womb, just know that that
baby just got an email. A second interview with Keith.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, I think your advice here is good. I think
you tell Keith Hope that he fires you and then
sue him into Oblivia.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
Take the company down.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Yes, and she works for UNISEF.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, yes, rip them to pieces handed.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
About time, come on goodbye.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
You take them for all their worth. When they're done,
they won't have a pot to piss in. Hannah.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yeah, I think that's good advice. And I think until
the big reveal, carry a huge bag of groceries around. Yeah,
just cover up, make sure nobody knows, and then you
drop it on the floor. Keith, I'm pregnant. He fires
you and now you're in court.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Maybe you preempt it. You go, Keith, I'm pregnant, you pig.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
You freak, you sick freak firing me. I always hated you.
Oh I'm fired.
Speaker 3 (57:42):
It's almost like the David Letterman thing where it's like
you're stalking me. It's like so Keith, I hear you're
firing me for being pregnant. Let it backfoot him.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Let him sue you first, then counter sue. He'll never
see it coming.
Speaker 3 (57:55):
He's a fool.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
You will be tied up in court for years. This
baby will go through high school before you get out
of this, and everyone will be ruined.
Speaker 3 (58:05):
Yeah, and that is where all of my advice inevitably
leads to the universal ruin.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Just kind of a life wasted excellent advice. I think
Hannah's on her way to I mean, working.
Speaker 3 (58:18):
Girl, working girl. That My most urgent piece of advice
is stop learning with with me.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
I mean, come on, it's I mean.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
It's tacky, it's ghost it's hideous.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Yeah, Hannah's ultimately a gross, pregnant fire suing person, and
I don't want her tor ever right back in again, Hannah,
get out of my life, Zach. I've had such a
wonderful time with you, and I've now got this beautiful
little book that if I were to just lay on
the table, people might be mildly confused when they just
(58:51):
see that I have a children, but there will be
a lot of explaining to do that's right, and that
creates conversation.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
There you go and you don't even have to do cook.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, this would be a nice little thing to do
cocaine off of.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
Actually you really do. Yeah, I see why you don't
do cocaine. It's like, really just a thought away every time,
every week, rain storming ways to get the stuff in
my nose. Thank you so much for thank you. I
had a great time. Thanks for having me. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Uh, listener, the podcast is over. You know it's over.
You're denying it. You're trying to get on with your
you know you're not trying to. You're delaying your I
need you to stop listening. I've got to get you
off the podcast and doing something else. Get out of here.
I love you, goodbye. I said No Gifts is an
(59:43):
exactly right production. It's produced by our dear friend Analise Nelson,
and it's beautifully mixed by Ben Holliday. And we couldn't
do it without our guest booker Patrick Kottner. The theme song,
of course, could only come from miracle worker Amy Man.
You must follow the show on Instagram at I Said
No Gifts. I don't want to hear any excuses. That's
(01:00:04):
where you get to see pictures of all these gorgeous
gifts I'm getting, And don't you want to see pictures
of the gifts?
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
And I invited you, hear, I thought, I made myself
perfectly clear. When you're a guest to my home, you
gotta come to me empty. And I said, no gifts,
you're our presences. Presence enough. I already had too much stuff,
(01:00:37):
So how did you dare to surbey me?
Well, I invited you here, thought I made myself perfectly clear.
When you're a guest to my home, you gotta come
to me empty. And I said, no, guests, your presences
(00:29):
presents enough. I already had too much stuff, So how
did you dare to surbey me?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Welcome to? I said, no gifts. I'm Bridger Wineker. We're
in the backyard. What is happening? I've been to Trader
Joees this morning. I went to three grocery restores. I
gave myself permission to buy the expensive coffee and that
it fell apart immediately, and I ended up at Trader Joe's.
(01:09):
There I had an orange slice from the sample lady.
I went around the aisle once and she was gone.
The entire stand was gone. She was gone, completely surreal experience. Rip.
Let's get into the podcast. Oh, I love today's guest.
He is just so funny. It's Zach woods Zech. Welcome to.
(01:32):
I said, no gifts, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
You feel like that woman was dead or I appeared
that she was just a hallucination conjured by the bad coffee.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I hope it's a hallucination, but I think she's been erased.
She's been disappeared.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, unmade. But you know, can I just paint a
picture for your listeners because you can't hear this through
the microphone. But Bridger is wearing them very understated and
beautiful outfit that matches his surroundings perfectly. Where they're this
kind of like I don't I'm not good at describing colors,
but it's this kind of like warm magenta shirt and
(02:06):
then this beautiful green jacket, and then there's these I
don't know, I guess it's not that rewarding to hear
someone describe colors over the over the internet, but it's
very beautiful and I want to appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I'm in kind of a brown maroon. And then
kind of I've thought about the color of this stracket
before and I thought dark turquoise or is it teal?
And I kind of landed on pacific. I feel like
it's the color is pacific. Yeah, because teal? What is teal?
I always think of a Pontiac grand am when I teal,
(02:39):
it's like a it's more of a turquoise.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah, Teal sounds like like the color of a car
that a father is distant from his children in. Yeah,
do you feel that you dress in colors that reflect
your mood or that are aspirational, Like will you dress
in a better mood than you are in? Or do
you dress in the mood that you are in? Does
that make sense?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That does make sense. If my mood is usually at
a negative four, to get to a zero with an
outfit would be incredible. So I guess I uh, it's
just kind of the four things that are clean in
my closet and that I haven't worn too recently. I'm
getting tired of all my clothes. Oh interesting, I mean
this shirt I've probably owned for fourteen years. Wow, let's wrong.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Take care of it, I would say somewhat. You know
Esther Peril. They're like, oh, of course, okay, So I
have mixed feelings. I think she's brilliant, but I also
think she's too focused on power. But anyway, but this
is not a referendum an Esther Perrel. Esther Perrel in
one of these books, talked about how she talked about
how people who have affairs aren't having affairs because they're
(03:47):
sick of their partner. It's that they're sick of the
version of themselves that they are with their partner. Which
I thought was interesting. And I don't know when you
were just saying, like, I'm getting sick of my clothes.
I feel periodically that I'll have the feeling of like
wanting to be a different person familiar with and I
will look to accessories to achieve that transformation.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
And what sort of accessories.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Candles, scented candles. I'm obsessed with SCENTI candles, different incenses,
a lot of scent stuff, different throws, quilts. It's a
lot of kind of like old lady paraphernalia that I'll try.
I guess that's what I'm trying to transition into. But
it's such a it's such a slam dungk for capitalism.
I guess that that that the impulse for personal growth
(04:34):
immediately off ramps to shopify.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yes, so what sort of candles are you getting into?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I will get DS andderga, I will get oh my god,
there's this one h perfume. I don't know if you're
supposed to say perfume A or perfumer. I don't know.
I'm not French, contrary to popular belief, but U yeah,
so those I like, I got this incense that smells
like coffee and chocolate because usually you hear incense and
(05:06):
you think it smells like a predatory yoga and.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Of course, of course just a strange perfume smell.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yes, yeah, like a kind of peturely with a whiff
of misogyny in there, and and but but this is
a coffee one that smells like coffee and chocolate.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And it's purely chocolate and coffee. Yeah, there's no that's
not confusing for you. For me, that's setting off a
lot of hunger bells. That's making me think, why am
I not eating? Like there's nothing in the oven baking.
I think I would be baffled. But for you, it works.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
You know, someone told me, like I had a when
I first got my dog. The trainer who we were
working with, said, don't get one of those laser pointers
that you point on the ground and they bat at
because of exactly what you're describing. It's like this insatiable
you want to get to the laser, but you can
never get to the laser if you're the dog. And
that's basically you're saying. It would be like a laser punter.
It's like I want to get to that smell, but
there is no there's no end of the tunnel. There's
(06:03):
just the constant tease. I think I like enticement maybe
more than contentment.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Oh interesting. For you it is the journey, and for
me it's purely the goal. The goal should be the beginning.
For me, you want to be sated. I just want
to be teased into a tizz someone. You know what
I realized recently. This is gonna make me sound again
like such an old lady. But I think it's jasmine,
you know, the smell of jazzure. To me, that is
(06:31):
like the smell of a crush, where it's like when
you walk past jasmine, you just want to get closer
and closer. You want to like get into the center
of the thing, but you can't. Like what are you
gonna do, like smash your head into.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
The bush, Like it won't work, and anyway, even if
you did it, you wouldn't get you there. And that
feeling of like it's like a I don't know anything
about math, but I remember from like seventh grade asimp
toads or whatever, where it's like the line is always
getting closer and closer and closer. I never can right,
And I think that's like a crush. That's my coffee, inceign.
That's the smell of jasmine. It's the unreal unrealizable.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
There right, you just need the carrot dangling non stop, yes,
just never able to quite munch on it.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Let's hope.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I need a hope and I need results. I just
need a result at the moment I begin or I'm
giving up. We should go into business together. We cover
each other's fine combination. Right, let's get us on shark tank. Well,
we both do our own thing. I think would be
very successful.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think we would do.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Now, do you like a treat? I mean, like, if
you were to have a chocolate, would you be happy?
Or is it you're just fine with the smell?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
No?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I like it very much. And I used to mainline,
just go straight up garbage. I used to go to
I lived in a hell's kitchen, and I would go
to the deli at two in the morning and I
would get like those tiny little apple pies wrapped in
wax paper.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh like the uh what are those called?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Little something?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah? Like a little friendly or something.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, little friendlies, little compulsions. And I would eat those
and then I would but I would also order a
cheese sandwich and sometimes like a sleeve of Pebveriage Farm
cookies and then what was left of the cheese sandwich
I would put on top the cheese I would put
on the pie like some sort of like.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
This is very taxi driver, your simple shepherd and taxi
driver with the cheddar on the apple pie.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
You calling me simple shepherd and taxi driver is the
nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That's what That's what I want from someone. I want
someone to tell me that, and I'm not getting it.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Bridger me and the your simple.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Results just as for it, and you got the result
I mean me asking for is more, Travis Bickle in
the situation, the desperation, the the need, and uh you
have this cool You're putting the cheese sandwich over the
top of a disgusting little apple pie. Good for you.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Do you feel like you have an inner Travis Bickle?
Do you feel like there's that like, under the right
social conditions, you could lose your shit, shave yourself into
a mohawk, start like practicing with guns in the mirror,
Like do you think there's a version of you that
I want to.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Believe that I have that the possibility of me becoming
a completely dangerous person. Even a sliver of that would
be so exciting. I think I have an maybe an
inner king of comedy where I could kidnap and then,
you know, try to make a hero my own.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Who would you kidnap?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh, that's a great question. Who let me think?
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It's hard?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Right? Yeah? And it feels dangerous.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I know that you're committing to it. It's it's definitely
undermining the result. In other words, if you if you
articulate your desire, you're warning them.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
You're absolutely warning them. And then I mean, but then
it becomes more of a challenge because now I have
to They've really told their security this is person to
watch out for.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Someone told me this thing, and I have no idea
if it's true, but that like some guy was stalking
Steven Spielberg because he thought that Steven Spielberg wanted him
to make love to him, and they like found him
with like Jurassic Park shit in his car. And I
don't know if that's true or not, but I remember
thinking how utterly terrifying that would be so scary to
(10:24):
not just have his stocker bit to stalker who thinks
that you're waiting for them eagerly. Just seems like truly harrowing.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
That reminds me of did you ever hear about David
Letterman's stalker who was saying that she claimed David Letterman
was stalking her?
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Oh wow, real?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I mean a great, nice reverse stalking attempt, which nobody
saw that coming.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
I'm not stalking you. You're stalking me.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Stop stalking me. Stop taking me to court.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, you're obsessed with me. You won't stop calling the
police on me.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Interesting, it's a very smart move. It's shrewd.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It's really I'm trying to think who I would want. Okay,
let's do it this way. You can kidnap someone. They're
dead already. I'm not saying you're gonna kill some but
I'm saying, so you're safe from incriminating.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Right, So now a grave robber, So who would you
they're still a grave would you rob?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
They're in exchange for the life of the woman who
gave you the orange slice, they are re animated and
give it directly into your possession.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Right right? Okay, somebody dead who I would want to
kidnap and keep in my home.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
That's what we're looking Yes, and I'll try to think
about it too.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Okay, I'm going to say, do you know who? Oh?
I mean, the real problem here is I don't know
any celebrity notes you can describe, just like I'm so
bad celebrities me too.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
That's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I panic. I mean, there's a full segment of this
podcast we do sometimes with celebrities. I'm like, I don't
know who any of these people are.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
It's a mitzvah, It's a mitzvah.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Who would you take that as? I'm like, who has died?
Who are some people who have died in the last
twenty years?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
David Bowie, David Bowie.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Prince, But these are so obvious. I would, of course,
I'd love to have David Bowie around the house.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Of course, who wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I would take Prince at any point. I mean, the
things you would get into with Prince, I mean, it
would be it every day would be a sexual adventure.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
This is true heresy. And I'm ashamed of myself, and
I don't think I'm right. I don't understand Prince. Oh, okay, well,
I'm not proud of Zach, but it's true.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
How much of Prince have you listened?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
To I not a ton, okay, but partly because when
I have I have a frightening feeling of incomprehension.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well there's I mean, first of all, there is so much.
I mean, he was producing music from the seventies until
eight years ago, and once we get into the nineties
and thousands, it gets a lot spottier. So there's some
I think it's hard. It's hard to penetrate his catalog.
But what what sort of music do you listen to?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I like that song he did about one two Princes
will destroy You, That's what I said.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's a sort of biographical. I think, what is that.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
About?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
It's about a rich guy and then there's a poor
guy and they're both fighting for the love of the
same woman.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Wait, what is I have no idea. What talk about one?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Two Princes will destroy You?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
He's singing the spin Doctors, and I was thinking about
the spin Doctors this morning.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
But I assume that that was gooes written by Prince.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Of course, it's about you know, he was kind of
a ghostwriter. It was that true. Yeah, he wrote a
lot of songs that he would just give to friends
under a different like a name like Christopher Smith or something.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Under the name Paul Simon.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
But he wrote all Graceland.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Amazing. I uh, I remember hearing that Bruce Springsteen wrote
Hungry Heart for the Ramones, which I don't know if
that's true.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I leave that for one second. I like to tell
why do you know what you need to do? The
album that got me into Prince was Dirty Mind. It's
like it's a little bit more, it's more bare bones,
sounds a bit fresh. It's to be honest, sounds really fresh.
It's Prince getting fresh for once in his life. The
(14:15):
song when You Were Mine is one of the all
time great songs. Listen to that one. That's the one
that'll get you into it. It'll break your heart.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
It sounds like he might have taken that from Bruno Mars.
I should have brought you followers. So if he's plagiarizing
Bruno Mars, I don't want to support that.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well who I mean the significance of Bruno Mars on music.
I mean, the impact he's had on artists from in
every genre cannot.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Be the Miles Davis of music. I've always said that about.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I've always you know, Bruno Mars from I mean I
think he's impacted me in other ways too, just in
daily life.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Spiritually, he's a very I mean, there are people who
seem and I'm I'm sure this isn't true, because he's
a person just like everyone else. There are people who
seem so like luminously untroubled in their public persona, where
they just seem healthy, happy together, you know, and and
(15:17):
they don't wreak of that kind of sociopathic ambition even
though they've somehow created empires for themselves, right. And I
guess I think I'm not that familiar with Bruno Mars,
but in my head he sort of falls into that category.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I've never heard a Bruno Mars song from beginning to end,
not once.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Because you were crying so hard by the middle.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm sobbing him on the floor. Turn off. I can't
listen to another minute of what I should have brought you,
I should have bought you, I should have bought you
flowers or brought brought well. I mean it either way works.
It's a really annoying one.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think that I literally only know that one Bruno
Mars song at least.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
What's the really annoying one?
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Oh my gosh, A lot.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Just the way you are. Oh, there's one that's more
of a vagacy number, kind.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Of a locked out of heaven ay magic.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I actually do like, how have we not gotten to
the one I know? Ooh now?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
And I'm just looking at all these.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Other uptown funk. Uptown Funk Funk is the one that
I'm thinking about. An uptown funk, of course, is the
one that's impacted generations. Not many people bought the single,
but the ones that did every What they say is
everyone who bought that single became a band that influential.
I believe that they said that about Bruno Mars.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Now, okay, so David Bowie Prince, those are people who
but like, in terms of deep cuts, reanimated celebrities that
you would like to possess.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Re animated celebrities, Okay, I have to think of one
celebrity there simply must be Actually I can think of.
I put a celebrity that is alive that I wouldn't
mind bringing home. Dian Waste.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Oh wow, what a good choice.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I would love to have her around the house.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yes, because I feel that like she would be a
good barrier between despair and arrogance. In other words, if
you got too low, Diane, Weast would intervene. And if
you got too high, Diane, she would cut you down,
but not in a way like she would be like
a trimming she'd trim your tree. She wouldn't lumberjack, you know,
she wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, it would feel healthy, and it'd be like, Okay,
I'm going to I'm going to be the same person,
but better. Right, she's at an age that you could
probably you know, help her out. You would feel like
you were helping each other.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I once when I first I'm bringing my dog up
a lot. When I first got my dog, I was
talking to my therapist about it, about getting him my dog,
and I said, well, you know, they want us to
foster him first, but who are we kidding? But I
don't know, you know, it's like I'm going to keep him.
There no way I'm going to give him back, but
they want us to foster. And she looked at me
(18:04):
in the eyes and she went, everything's a foster. And
I was like, wow, that's right, Like you don't get
to keep playing. And I feel like that's like something
I can easily imagine coming out of Diane West's mouth.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You know what I meant kind of a whisper.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yeah, and everything's a foster. Everything's a foster.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I love her voice.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
She's beautiful in every way that a person can be beautiful.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Did we ever get to you with a celebrity?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Weirdly, the first one that came to my head and
I wouldn't want to possess her, but I would want
her company is Olympia Ducacus.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Oh fantastic, right, excellent, joy.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah. I just rewatched Moonstruck and I was like, that
woman is incredible, irresistible. So that's one. I think another
one would be I'm trying to think, oh fuck, oh fuck,
oh fuck.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It's hard. Anytime you're asked to recall information, the brain
shuts down. I don't know why that is. Jimmy Carter,
Jimmy Carter, I love Jimmy Carter, Sweet Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Carter, good man.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Wow. Well, as much as I mean, we're clearly making
excellent conversation out of just trying to think of a person.
You and I can't recall a person. I mean, I'm
me especially, It's just I barely know the two names
of the people present with me right now. I'm just
blanking on everything. So we're gonna move on from the
subject because there's something more important I need to talk
(19:37):
to you about. Jeez, I look, I was happy to
have you on the podcast. Yeah, I was excited. I'll
say I was excited. Zac's wonderful. There's no chance anything
could possibly go wrong. And so you know, I've been
doing this podcast for a while. Most episodes go okay.
So I was a little surprised the podcast is called
(19:59):
I said, no gifts, right, it's a little I don't
I don't even know that. I'd say I was a
little surprised. I would say I was floored. I was
shocked when you came trotting into my backyard holding this gorgeous,
shimmering pink bag, which and I don't want to I
don't want to assume, but I'm going to what it's
(20:20):
a gift for.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Me, that's right. Thank you for describing my walk as
a trot. Very few people understand my sort of a
questrian elegance and the way that you obviously do. Thank you.
I think of myself as a dressage horse first and foremost,
and then secondly, I can't help it. I want to
ruffle people's hair. I want to just I don't want
(20:44):
to violate their boundaries, but I want to, you know,
challenge the status quo. I'm lawless like that viture.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Okay, yeah, the ruffling the hair. It's kind of an
uncle ergry.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Can I tell you I was once on a train
like this is maybe not this is pretty tangential. I
was once on a train and a man. This is
in my younger days. A man came up to me
and I'm like ninety five percent sure he was flirting,
and I was so flattered, and I'm straight, but this
(21:18):
guy was so charming. And at one point I was
wearing a tie, and when he was getting off the train,
he did this thing where he reached out and sort
of tugged on my tie a little bit, oh, not
a lot, just like it was sort of like half
straightening it, half giving it, like a little tug right.
And I remember thinking, if I wasn't straight, I would
(21:40):
be falling into your arms.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It was so the most erotic thing a person could
possibly do.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It was amazing. It was like carrying assertive. It like
sort of trans It crossed the boundary of strangers and
physical distance. But it wasn't scary. I was just like
you are a.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Master the amount of yeah, that little bit of caring
and just wanting you to be better. Yes, yes, also
like clearly being like, oh this guy looks good, but
he could look better.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yes, And I'm gonna like give it a little I
don't know I was like that.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I mean, I'm lightheaded thinking about it. I get it,
mean too, I wonder how often he's doing that. I mean,
he's probably imprisoned by now.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, he strangled someone with their own tie.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think about that a lot, Like being in public.
I'm like, I wonder if I could just ask a
stranger because they have no bias, and just be like,
what do you think of my outfit? You can say
whatever you want because you're not getting that from one
else in your life. No one else is going to
give you the cold truth. But if I walk up
to somebody in the grocery store and just say rate
me from A to F, I'm going to get the truth.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I do tend to think, and this might just be
my own bias or a sort of projected lonesomeness or something.
I generally think people want to connect and that the
barrier to that is safety. It's feeling like this person's
going to hurt me. They're going to either take advantage
of me, or they're going to hurt my body, or
(23:06):
they're going to do something. But if you present as
someone who is not out to cause harm, I think
people might really take you up on the opportunity to
have a frank conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
It's worth trying.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Maybe try it.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And people love giving their opinions. Yes, that's right. It's
like asking. It's a miniature survey and their the stakes
are so low for them. Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
And I also think if it's like if it's like
I like your clothes, although they might create an expectation
of reciprocity in a way that's not really that's true.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, And I don't want to, I don't need to.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Just got to be like, I need your opinion.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
And I'm going to walk away. I'm not going to
say a thing to you.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
It's going to be a cold interaction. But you are
going to help me, that's nice. I've thought about that,
and I think a genuinely good service would be a
person who comes to your home and tells you if
it smells or not, Oh that's or get your car,
because you know, when you live in a house, or
you're in your car. You're used to these things and
you don't know if it smells bad. But for somebody
to come over, I give them fifty dollars and they
(24:06):
say this place smells horrible, right, or like determines what
the smell is. What a great service that would be.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
That's a really good idea. I think sometimes if you've
been away from your house for a few weeks and
then you come back and you're like, oh, interesting, this
is the experience of a stranger walking into my house.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, and sometimes that can be bad.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, it's startling, it is, it's.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Start familiar, becomes slightly off, but it's like because the
sense memory is there.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Right, it's uncanny valley. Have you ever seen one of
those mirrors that reverses the You know, when you look
at a mirror, you're seeing the reverse image, but there
are certain mirrors that then reflect the image back, so
you're seeing yourself as others see you.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Have you ever looked at the mirror?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
How does that How that feels like it's defying physics?
Speaker 3 (24:53):
I think it's a It like reflects the image off
of several different planes to arrive back at.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I mean, but when you do see yourself, what is
that the other flipped around?
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, terrifying, it's a little I used to talk to
an X of mine and say, I think the scariest
thing would be to wake up next to you and
not find a different person there, but to find you
but your eyes are slightly further apart, or like your
nose is like half an inch longer, or like just you,
but plus some undeniable thing that can't be accounted for.
(25:28):
That to me just seems like a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, because there's nothing you can do about it, and
then you're thinking about it constantly, and you have the
memory of the old you, and it's an impostor you're
now living with an impostor.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I guess. So I think my friend's making a TV
show about this very thing.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
No, you're kidding.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
No, Yeah, I think he has. But it's a very
scary thought, very very scary.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, because the trust is broken.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
I remember when I was in summer camp as a
little kid, someone said to me, what if what I
see when I say green is what you your green
is my red? But language prevents us from and it
threw me into a depression. I remember walking around day
camp at the Lawrenceville School, Like in between swim classes,
I was like a little character from a Woody Allen
(26:13):
movie or something, just being like, oh fuck, Like language
is like we're all siloed in our own language prisons.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I think the thing that kids go through, because I
remember going through this being like, oh what if I mean,
we just cannot express to another person what my reality is?
What if we think it's the same thing? And then
I mean that just explodes everything in your world?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
What do you think? This is where I feel like
the most sure fire away I know, to tunnel under
all of the barriers. I think is like often the
night time pretentious, but I really do feel this way
is like art physical touch, and then like certain kind
of conversations that aren't necessarily even about what you're saying explicitly,
(26:56):
but as much as the sort of energetic loop that
exists between the two of you, Like I feel like
there's so few ways to be able to like get
through all the shrubbery to the other person, like for you,
like for me. So I think a lot of my
most intimate experiences have been in audiences.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Or or making an audience memory.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah because it's yeah, because I feel so close to
these people I've never even met before, but I feel
so profoundly understood and understanding of right or or sometimes
if I make something too then I can feel that
same thing if I feel like I've adequately expressed some
inexpressible thing.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Do you feel like for you, like, where do you
feel like.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
The kind of where does the Berlin Wall fall down
in your life?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Where things where it feels like I'm purely communicating with
another person.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yeah, we're that language barrier even when you're speaking the
same language dissipates a little bit and you feel like, oh,
I know this person, this person knows me.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I think it's when one is when I don't like
the taste of something and they also don't I basically
I'm always looking. I'm always looking for people to basically
when somebody else doesn't like the same thing as me, yes,
that's when I'm especially when it's I mean, this happens
a lot recently actually, because there's so much on the internet.
(28:11):
There's so much hype about everything and everything is the
second coming of whatever, And then you go and experience
and you're like, oh am I an alien? I don't
I did not have and then you meet a friend
and you quietly talk about it and you have the
same It's like, oh my god, so okay, I feel you.
I like you. At least our reality exists, even if
(28:31):
the huge one doesn't fit for us. It's true.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
It's such a relief because it can feel so isolating
to be on the outside of a consensus that can
feel so.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Weird, full alien, especially.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Among people who you love and respect and they're all
in agreement and you're just thinking what is wrong with me?
I always think it's so interesting what we've collectively decided
is fun. Like like I was at this near the
I guess it was like the Staples Center or something,
and there's like.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
All these loud lights.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
These lights are so crazy and it sounds everywhere, and
it's like, or you go to Vegas or like or
someplace like that, and you're like, this is what we've all,
as like a global economy decided is fun. And to
me it just feels like hell, it's a complete Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Las Vegas, Oh my god. I mean, I can last
half an hour before my body is just screaming.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
That's just to say you are screaming.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And I mean I was in New York last week
and I was I had to walk through Times Square
a few times, and it's it's the exact same thing
where it's just like, who is getting anything out of
this experience?
Speaker 3 (29:40):
It's like, yeah, it's interesting. I guess in my own
life too, can maybe it's like mistaking numbness for fun,
Like sometimes I guess in my own life in different ways,
I will sort of make myself numb and think of
it as recreational, you know, for shopping or the eating
the pies or the way whatever. It's like it's highly
(30:01):
stimulating and that is relieving. And then so I think
it sort of categorize its fun in my brain. But
the truth is it's just about kind of comaing myself.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's very much like pushing down on the wound. Yeah,
very just like holding it so the pain feels different.
At least this is my entire life at this point.
I mean, I need a lobotomy because I'm like, oh,
I don't know that I can experience fun anymore. I
don't know that that's a thing. But the rare time
that it does happen, I mean, I'm describing depression, but
(30:33):
when it does happen, what a relief when you're like,
oh my god, I can laugh at something. Something can
still make me laugh. Or I saw Godzilla recently. I
heard that was great, did not expect the movie. I
was jumping in my seat. I was scared of Godzilla.
Oh I couldn't believe it. So there are occasionally times
where I'm like, oh, I'm not completely numb to everything.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
My father worked at a mental hospital when he was
in his twenties, and he said, this is back when
there was less oversight. Maybe they're still not oversight, but anyway.
It was in I think New Hampshire, and he said
he didn't have a degree at this planet on it
was just like an orderly and he took the most
depressive cases, the people who were really struggling, and loaded
(31:15):
them all into a van and drove to an airport.
I think it was in Vermont where there was one
of those landing strips where the planes come like screaming
down right above, you know what I mean. And he
parked the van and he had all of them get
out and lie on top of the van, in on
the hood, and then they just lay there while these
planes came like like over top of them. And he
(31:37):
said by the time they left, these people who were
like catatonically depressed were like bouncing off the walls. They
were so like hyped up. It's like they were scared
of God's ill. It was like they were just like, oh,
like they felt alive again, of.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Course, because it didn't feel like all of their nerve
endings were burnt.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Off, right right, I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Wow. I mean God blessed putting them all, all of
these lives in danger. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
But I think also, like another thing about that is
like I have a friend who's an acting teacher who
like really kind of helped me learn about acting a
lot named Anya Saffer, who I adore, and she we
were talking about crying, like in scenes where you have
to cry or whatever. She was like, something I'd tell
my students a lot, because she would teach college kids too.
She said, is that I think if you could remove
all the social conditioning and repression and whatever else, she's like,
(32:25):
underneath all of that. I think most people are always
underneath that, on the verge of laughing or crying. Oh wow,
You're always sort of like hovering on the precipice of
one of those things, right, She's like, I don't know
if that's true or not, but I've found it. I've
thought about it a lot since then.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I can't believe that. I mean, we're we can't get
into it right now because I will start crying. But
that's about a month ago. I was we're now two
months ago. I was at a stop lines like, I
haven't cried in a while. I wonder what that feels like.
And then my dog died like last week, but it
was about a month long thing. And we will not
talk about this because I'll start crying. But oh, I'm
(33:04):
I'm definitely able to cry. And it's I mean, what
an experience, what a horrible feeling. It's crazy. But I
think that that is always there, and I guess it's
a good thing.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
It's there. Yeah, I mean I think it's first of all,
I get it if you don't want to talk about
something so gutting on your characters.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
We can't cry on this podcast. It's simply it's not
a thing to do.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
But then again, there's no gifts allowed either, and what
do we have here. I mean, what I was going
to say about that is just like and we obviously
your podcast will cut it out if you want. But
I just think I really hate it when there's sort
of unanswerably painful things like the loss of a loved
one like a dog, and people try to shove their
silver lining down your throat to make them feel better.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Someone did say something to me that I was like,
where it's like, the pain you experience is proportion to
the love that you felt for the creature. Yes, And
my friend who lost his dog said this thing that
like made me cry, where he was like, buy the ticket,
take the ride, And I was like, oh, boy.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
That's that's what it is. I mean, I yeah, I
mean like I've never really grieved for I mean, I've
had grandparents die that sort of thing where it felt
like it was time or almost time, But for this,
this is the first time as an adult that this
has happened to me. And I mean it's just the
most gutting feeling. But I've like I've been kind of
having realizations about all of this, and what I kind
(34:32):
of tried to frame it as is just it's the
compression of all of that joy, the nine years of
joy I had, is just suddenly being pushed through into
a small thing that I get to keep, and of
course that's going to be painful. It's it's just like
all of that is just getting crushed into a thing
that I get to keep. But in the process that's
(34:53):
going to be horrible, and it has been. But what
a wonderful little gift that Adie gave to me and
my boyfriend. Yeah, not a fun experience and totally worth it.
Of course I would do it a million times again
to have her, But it's not fun.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I think I've never heard it described that way. It's
almost like when people take their blankets from the winter
and shrink them down into the little like this is
like you said something very beautiful and poetic, and now
I'm framing it in terms of the container story. But
I think that that idea of like a resizing of
It's like the amount of love, the magnitude of love
doesn't change, but the kind of packaging is shrunk to
(35:35):
the past or something.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Right, it's like a.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Complicated I know what you mean. And I remember talking
to somebody once who was like studied protracted grief, Like
whatever the fuck that is? Like he was like, oh no, no, no, no,
it was this his girlfriend studied like a pathological grief,
which I guess is grief that extends endlessly.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Right, it's not all grief, I feel. I mean, it's
an endless well right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
But I guess one thing he said that I thought
was interesting that he was quoting her. I didn't meet her,
but she was that often people who grieve intensely for
a long time, the grief occupies the vacancy that the
person or dog or whatever left. So it's like, rather
than just have this sort of cavity, the act of
grieving takes up some of the emotional real estate where
(36:21):
all of that engagement and love and everything used to be.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
That makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Yeah, I thought it was like helpful and interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Anyway, I'm really sorry you're going through it.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
That's okay. Let's talk about these people shrinking blankets. They
shrink them for a convenience.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
They shrink them down. I mean, you can get it's
basically vacuum bags.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It's like they're not like putting them through the wash.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
No, those would be I mean I was like.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Oh, so they're ruining of the thing they owned so
they could save space. Okay, good for them.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
It's at the end of every winter you smash all
your plates.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I don't have the space. I simply don't have the space.
We've got to destroy these things.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Too hot to have these plates.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Okay, well, this is I mean, the way you've distracted
from the gift. Sorry, I mean you've throw I mean
you've taken us through a loop. We're running out of
time here. We should open the gime gift. Let's get
into this gift I'm pulling out.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
It requires explanation.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Okay, So what I'm seeing so far is it's like
a little book or journal that says children on it.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Now I understand to the listeners, one grown man giving
another grown man a book which has just a brown
cover that says children on it when the conversation started
with kidnapping does not bode particularly well.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
What is the chitty chitty bang bang characters of the
child snatcher or something?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Yeah, I promise to not be that chitty chitty bank
bank character. That is not the intent or content of
this gift. But if it's raising alarm bells for you
on as you're listening, I understand, but don't worry, it'll
be Okay.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
What is this?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
This is a book of famous historical figures when they
were little.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Kids, Oh my god. And it's a mix.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
It's like it'd be like Neil Armstrong and Asama bin
Laden and the name of the kid is on the
next page, so you can look and be like, who
is that. I think that's Winston Churchhill, and then you
turn the page and you find out if you were
right or wrong. But you get to see like Oppenheimer
or like I think Manson's in there. But then also
like musicians like in Lewis Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Okay, right, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
It's like just seeing all these people who had this
outsize kind of like effect on the world, which as
you describe Bruno Mars for example, but you know before
they were any of the things that they would be known.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
For, right, I mean, and before you describe it to me.
I flipped open the book and it said Mick Jagger
on the page, and I looked at the not knowing
how it worked.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
I looked at this photo and it's like kind of
like it's probably Chekhov or something. It's just like very nine.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Oh, I don't know who this is.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Yeah, that's the other thing. It'll make you feel dumb
because some of the people.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Use Charles Edouard Jannaire or gree Yeah, I don't know.
Eighteen eighty seven to nineteen sixty five, my dufus. So
did you look at the real make Dagger picture. Let's see,
I should look at it. Let's see here. Okay, there's
the mixed jack no one love. The teeth are there. Yeah,
the teeth were ready to go, and so is the
cunning in his eyes. Oh yeah, he's ready to like
(39:23):
take over the world. He's ready to play Wembley. Did
they ever play Wembley? Oh? I hope? So? I mean
what were they doing?
Speaker 3 (39:29):
What were they doing?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
What could they have possibly been? Okay, well tell me
why you brought this? This is so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
I think it's a beautiful book, and I.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Think Osama bin Laden.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Okay, there he is. It's so sad to look at it.
It'll say which one's him. But there's the bin Laden
family altogether having a good time. It's so weird.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Wow. Yeah, just I mean they look like the Partridge
family or something.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah, isn't it streme? So western eyed too? It's not
like but I think I guess I was just trying
to think since we've never met something that I felt
like reflected stuff I'm oh shit, if you open the
front cover, the whole book is black and white. But no, no, no,
just the Jack of Party. It matches your outfit.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh it kind of does. Look how nice then?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
And the background this is beautiful. But I was going
to say, I think it reflects my what I hope
to cold in my head whenever I'm meeting anyone or
being met by someone, which usually happens at the same time.
It's just the kind of like delicate, vulnerable thing, especially
(40:35):
if like a pod, because I don't do that many podcasts,
partly because I feel shy and partly because I feel
like I'm not sure which version of myself I'm supposed
to bring.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
An interesting thing. Who you become on a podcast? Right,
it's like that you, but just like slightly cocained. It's like,
this is the person I wish I could be all
the time that I can think of things to talk about,
and then in public, I'm like everything I say is
too words long, and I can barely communicate with people.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I think the takeaways you just have to start doing
a little bit of cocaine all the time.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
There's a reason I don't do cocaine. It's because I
need it and it will ruin me.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I think, yeah, so it's just trying to something I'm
trying to do with varying results. Is it's funny like
when I did press in the past for like TV
shows that came out. I again talked to my therapist.
I was like, man, I feel like such a whore.
I just feel like, no disrespect to sex workers, but
I felt like a whore, like an old strumpet. And
(41:35):
just like I go out and I do myself deprecating
story and I'm just such a putts. But she's and
I don't know how to not feel like a dirty
little like I don't know sales boy, right, And she
said this thing I thought was so great. She was like,
when you go out onto one of these shows, just
like sit down and look at the host in the eye,
which is now we're looking at each other.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
The strongest eye contact two people could possibly have.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Well, there's no getting away from it, she said, try
and find something lovable about them, because then you can
have a moment of human warmth that exists on television
and it's not going to change the world, but it'll
be a nice little moment. And I and I think
not allowing the noise of my own self consciousness or
the situation to drown out the kind of little kid
(42:22):
versions of me or other people something I try to do.
In this case, it's very easy because you guys are
so lovely and it's a beautiful day and we're having
this really nice conversation. But then sometimes there'll be in
a situation where it's it's a real kind of olympic
feat to not become a shrieky nightmare version of yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
And that's kind of what you're known as, kind of
a shrieky nightmare. That's what people say about Zach Ones.
I'm having lunch with less moon vests. You're the last
person that's having lunch with less moonvess.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Our table at the pole a lounge is occupied, and
I'm going to throw a fit.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
H No, I understand that, And I also think, I mean,
podcasts are a little different because they can be more organic.
When you go on a late night show or whatever,
you've got four minutes in front of a weird audience
that's been standing outside in Times Square of Hollywood Boulevard,
that you're like, who am I entertaining here? Why are
any of us.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Here, right, if you're lucky, they think you're Zach Braff
and they give you some of his goodwill. But I
and it's pre interviews too. That's the other thing that's
so fascinating is like the pre interview thing where you
sort of vet stories in advance.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Do the exact thing that's going to happen with the host, right,
but you're speaking with the producer first. Fascinating things.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
It's an interesting thing. I remember I never read this
book because I'm too lazy, but there's a George Saunders
book about writing. My friend Brandon Gardner, who I write
everything we work on together with, he told me that
that George Saunders says that if you're outlining, like for
a writer, yeah, it's almost like if you went on
a date with index cards with things that you were
(44:03):
going to say on the date, where it's like it
cuts you off from the present moment so that you're
not actually in a flow. You're just like holding fast
to your little like life social life preserver, right. And
I think like a pre interview is a little bit
like that, where it's like, okay, now I say this,
instead of just being like, what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Right. I mean it's literally there on cards in front
of your host.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yes, yes, yeah, it's You're right, it actually is on cards.
It's yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah. I feel like Loe's late night shows need to
get away from it. Let's get back to like those
seventies interviews where it's just beginning to end one conversation
with a person.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
That's a great idea. Those old Dick Kavic shows incredible,
so good.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, we've got to play a game.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Let's play a game.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
I would keep you here all day, but yes.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
It's fun. I'm having a nice time. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
A wonderful time. Thank you for being here. New Year.
Let's play. Let's start with gift or a curse. I
need a number between one and ten from you.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Eight.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Okay, I have to do some like calculating. While I
do this, you can recommend, promote, do whatever you want.
I'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
So Brandon and I. Brandon the guy was just talking about,
made this stop motion show with Mike Judge called In
the Know, and it takes place in an NPR studio
and it's made with these crazy, beautiful stop motion puppets
that were made by the same people who did Guerma
del Toro's Pinocchio. And what's crazy about stop motion is
like each character is played by the person who voices them,
(45:28):
and then like thirty people all make each person come alive,
so you see little pieces of each of their personalities
in each of the puppets. And I think something that
I like about stories is that sometimes they can show
that people are more than one thing, that they're not
just one identity or one I'm making this sound so
(45:48):
heavy and it's like a goofy show about NPR and
like has a lot of dick jokes and stuff. So
but anyway, it's a there's all these characters that have
been done by all these puppeteers who are geniuses, and
I think it's I think it's a hopefully a warm
show and funny, and so I hope people watch it.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
It looks delightful, and any animation that's not CGI I'm
on board with. Yeah, when it feels at least like
humans were involved for part of the experience, it's always refreshing.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, it's not like a screensaver made by an AI,
right right, Yeah, And it's on January twenty fifth, It's
going to be on peacock.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Peacock, been watching the Traders on Peacock, So I've got
my subscription. Is that what we're calling these things? I
was going to say prescription, Yeah, but as.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Far as I gave you a peacock account.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Beautiful, everyone go watch that. My recommendation this week. I mean,
we talked about this already, so I might as well say.
There's a song called On and On by Long Pig
because it's such a wonderful song, old song. If you
want to just be devastated, go listen to this song.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
And long Pig I think was that a slang for human? Right?
They would call it long ping. Someone told me that
that it was like long pig. I don't know where
I heard that from, but I remember hearing that this
they call humans, or maybe was dead humans.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
He called humans? Who else? Who's calling the constable? Okay?
This is how we play gift a curse. I'm gonna
name three things. You're gonna tell me if there are
a gift or a curse and why, and then I'll
tell you if you're right or wrong? Are correct? Answers?
All right? Number one? This is from a listener named Parker.
Gift or a curse people who say goose pimples or
(47:23):
goose flesh instead of goose bumps.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Curse why because the morbid fascination with acne has to stop,
Doctor pimple popper, all this fucking stuff. It's like to me,
it's like one wrung below snuff films. I would prefer
you watch old sixteen millimeter of people being killed, thrill killed,
(47:47):
then watch that shit. It's it's sub human.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Excellent beginning to the game. Yeah, both of those are
disgusting ways to describe it. I don't need I don't
need those images in my head. And yeah, I really
would rather watch somebody be stabbed to death and watch
a pimple get exploded. No, thank you, thank you, take it,
thank you excellently played. Number two. This is from a
listener named Rebecca. Gift or a curse introducing two of
(48:15):
your friends from different circles and later discovering they've become
quite close and hang out often.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Well, this presupposes that you have more than one friend,
which puts me out of contention.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
For a huge stretch for you.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I can't. I think it's a gift. I think it's
definitely a gift that could feel like a curse depending
on how fragile you are in any given moment.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Hmm.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
It's beautiful when people love each other and you want
people to connect, especially people you adore. But if you're
feeling like a negligible little scrap or an unlovable goblin person,
then you might have abandonment anxieties that are activated by
two people who you know to be beautiful pairing up
without you.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
So, oh, Zach, wrong, a betrayal? Now you're better friends
than we are. What's happening to it? I set this
thing up. I didn't mean to set this thing up.
And now suddenly you're just doing things in the shadows
without me sanctioning it. You know, no, no, no, unless
I say I'm setting you to up as friends, yes,
(49:23):
that's a different story. But if we're just you know,
we kind of mushed together and then suddenly you're out
to dinner with these people and I didn't get invited.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
What's wrong with those perverts?
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Oh? Absolutely sick, disgusting perverted behavior. And although I actually
did this to a friend, but you know, I like
my you know, I like to dip my toe in perversion,
and so I'm okay to do it. But curse, so
you do lose until we hate to see it.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
I hate to see it.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Number three. This is from a listener named Mark gif
you a curse lottery tickets as gifts?
Speaker 3 (50:04):
Curse?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Why didn't say?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
I think I heard someone say that lottery tickets are
attacks on hope? And who wants to give your friend
a tax of any kind, let alone one on hope
as a gift. It's also like both you're probably statistically,
you're probably gifting disappointment and at best you're gifting the
(50:27):
least personal gift card that could possibly exist. At least
get them like a gift card to outback or something.
But don't be like, hey, this is probably worth less
than nothing. But also if it is something, it will
be totally anonymous, so correct totally curse. Yeah, it's either worthless,
(50:49):
this is what a lottery ticket is. It's either worthless
or it's going to ruin my life because that's what
we know with a lottery. So you either want me
to win the you know, the mega millions and then
suddenly my life is falling apart because I don't know
how to handle that much money, or I've got a
piece of paper that I just have to throw away,
and I've got the the little silver dust that I
(51:11):
had to scratch off with my fingernail. You know, I
never thought about it that way, because then you're right,
you win the lottery, and then you're like, probably you
become the kidnapping target. Oh completely, someone wants.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
You, so many people want you. I mean, you get
to be probably you could be on a lottery dream
home on HGTV, which I've consumed a decent amount of. Uh.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
But Joanna Gaines.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
That is not Joanna gains That's a man who I
don't know his name. Heavily tattooed man that wears a
lot of kind of flowy coats, and then he.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Helps people Chriss Angel. It's Angel. Crist Angel has pivoted.
He is helping people find homes. He he loves real estate.
Oh my god, that's a great idea.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Ultimate mind Freak is an affordable mortgag.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
We have got to develop that for Chris. I don't
know what else he's doing.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
I don't know, man, we probably don't even know the
necromancy he's up too, and.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Should help people find homes in the Vegas area, exclusively
Vegas suburbs.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
I would honestly, for real, watch a show where magicians
help people find homes.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Oh my god, are you kidding me? That would be on.
I would just leave that on like one of those
fish tank screen savers. I would just be on my
TV all the time. Well, you got two out of three.
That's not so bad. It's really not too bad.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Sixty six.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
This is sixty six, and that's not an F. And
so you can, you know, go to community college and
get your grades up, but then maybe transfer to a
different school. You can do whatever you want with the
sixty six. There's no one stopping you. No, you don't
have to go to summer school. I refuse, you, absolutely refuse. Okay,
this is the final segment of the podcast. It's called
(52:50):
I said no emails. People write in to I said
no gifts at gmail dot com and they're desperate for answers.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
I like that. I am confident and prescriptive.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah, and we're gonna need that today because let me
read this. It says, hello Bridger and guest, since you
answer every question perfectly. Oh that's very nice. I was
hoping you would offer flirt. Someone's flirting. Someone wants to
kiss me.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
Stop trying to kiss him. Email is not the way
to do.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Stop chasing me around. I was hoping you would offer
your wisdom on the situation I found myself in. I
cannot think of anyone more qualified to help me with this. Okay,
the teasing continues. I started at a company just three
months ago, and last week my husband. Oh and now
there's a husband involved in the Oh.
Speaker 3 (53:38):
This is I mean, the forbidden. What is more enticing?
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Nothing's more enticing than me.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
There you go, and I got bad news writer. He's
results oriented. So if you're just trying to live in
a liminal space of provocation, look at not happening.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Last week, my husband and I found out we are
expecting our second child. While we are excited about this,
it was unplanned and the timing is tricky. As I'm
still new in my position, I'm struggling on the timing
and manner in which I share this news with my
new boss.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
I am also dealing with the common symptom of pregnancy illness,
and I'm concerned I will have to tell him sooner
rather than later do to how ill I've been Do
I schedule a meeting, tell him in passing, not tell
him and just call out sick for weeks after the birth.
Maybe a gift would be appropriate in this situation. I
anxiously am awaiting your response, and that's from Hannah. What
(54:29):
does Hannah do pregnant Hannah?
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Well, I will say I do think more women should
come to me for advice about prenatal issues, childcare, say
childless man, you're a pro. I'm definitely the guy who
who has sage advice. I'm basically a doula. I think
(54:52):
I think my first piece of advice would be to
ignore whatever I say next, and my second piece of
vice take the terrifying. I guess my advice would be
she wants to know when to tell him and how
to tell him right when.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
And how, and she's been at the job for three months,
so she's still kind of new girl in town.
Speaker 3 (55:15):
Intuitively, I feel like it should be someplace quiet where
it's just the two of them.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
In person, Okay, intimate.
Speaker 3 (55:22):
I'm not saying you have to like, you know, just
like an office would do, but I think just feeling
like you can connect. I think trying to like toss
that off in a casual way. If it were me
and I had something as like vulnerable in life altering
as that, and I was like, oh, ps for me,
it would make me feel a little bit like I'd
(55:43):
handled myself kind of roughly right, regardless of that other
person's response. So we can't control what Keith her boss
name is Keith, right, We can't control what Keith does.
He might react very poorly, he might be very supportive.
We don't know him well enough. It's only been a
few months, but we know that for Hannah's sake, Hannah
needs to do Hannah, and Hannah needs to approach this
(56:05):
in a situation that feels like it maximizes mental health
for Hannah.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
And the baby baby.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
I don't I'm not a fan of that.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Cares about this baby. It's created a.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Problem he he she whatever they This baby was not
planned and is an intruder in.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
The sho showed up three months into the job and
is now I mean, just causing chaos wherever it goes.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
It's undermining you professionally, and I do mean it.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
It wants the job.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
This baby's trying to snake you. I swear to God.
Look on monster dot com and if you see a fetus.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
And it's got an incredible profile, it's badgering Keith, look
at my CV. Is that what that's called?
Speaker 3 (56:43):
Yes, CVV, Yeah, applied for if you hear like an
email alert from within your womb, just know that that
baby just got an email. A second interview with Keith.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, I think your advice here is good. I think
you tell Keith Hope that he fires you and then
sue him into Oblivia.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
Take the company down.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Yes, and she works for UNISEF.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, yes, rip them to pieces handed.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
About time, come on goodbye.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
You take them for all their worth. When they're done,
they won't have a pot to piss in. Hannah.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yeah, I think that's good advice. And I think until
the big reveal, carry a huge bag of groceries around. Yeah,
just cover up, make sure nobody knows, and then you
drop it on the floor. Keith, I'm pregnant. He fires
you and now you're in court.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Maybe you preempt it. You go, Keith, I'm pregnant, you pig.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
You freak, you sick freak firing me. I always hated you.
Oh I'm fired.
Speaker 3 (57:42):
It's almost like the David Letterman thing where it's like
you're stalking me. It's like so Keith, I hear you're
firing me for being pregnant. Let it backfoot him.
Speaker 2 (57:51):
Let him sue you first, then counter sue. He'll never
see it coming.
Speaker 3 (57:55):
He's a fool.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
You will be tied up in court for years. This
baby will go through high school before you get out
of this, and everyone will be ruined.
Speaker 3 (58:05):
Yeah, and that is where all of my advice inevitably
leads to the universal ruin.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
Just kind of a life wasted excellent advice. I think
Hannah's on her way to I mean, working.
Speaker 3 (58:18):
Girl, working girl. That My most urgent piece of advice
is stop learning with with me.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
I mean, come on, it's I mean.
Speaker 3 (58:26):
It's tacky, it's ghost it's hideous.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Yeah, Hannah's ultimately a gross, pregnant fire suing person, and
I don't want her tor ever right back in again, Hannah,
get out of my life, Zach. I've had such a
wonderful time with you, and I've now got this beautiful
little book that if I were to just lay on
the table, people might be mildly confused when they just
(58:51):
see that I have a children, but there will be
a lot of explaining to do that's right, and that
creates conversation.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
There you go and you don't even have to do cook.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, this would be a nice little thing to do
cocaine off of.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
Actually you really do. Yeah, I see why you don't
do cocaine. It's like, really just a thought away every time,
every week, rain storming ways to get the stuff in
my nose. Thank you so much for thank you. I
had a great time. Thanks for having me. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Uh, listener, the podcast is over. You know it's over.
You're denying it. You're trying to get on with your
you know you're not trying to. You're delaying your I
need you to stop listening. I've got to get you
off the podcast and doing something else. Get out of here.
I love you, goodbye. I said No Gifts is an
(59:43):
exactly right production. It's produced by our dear friend Analise Nelson,
and it's beautifully mixed by Ben Holliday. And we couldn't
do it without our guest booker Patrick Kottner. The theme song,
of course, could only come from miracle worker Amy Man.
You must follow the show on Instagram at I Said
No Gifts. I don't want to hear any excuses. That's
(01:00:04):
where you get to see pictures of all these gorgeous
gifts I'm getting, And don't you want to see pictures
of the gifts?
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
And I invited you, hear, I thought, I made myself
perfectly clear. When you're a guest to my home, you
gotta come to me empty. And I said, no gifts,
you're our presences. Presence enough. I already had too much stuff,
(01:00:37):
So how did you dare to surbey me?
Host
Bridger Winegar
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