August 28, 2025 • 57 mins
In this episode of In Pursuit, Rich sits down with archery expert Joel Turner to explore the power of mental clarity in mastering both the bow's and life’s challenges. Joel shares his journey to developing his distinctive shooting method, offering insights that blend precision, focus, and resilience. Tune in for a deep dive into the mindset and techniques that elevate performance in the wild and beyond!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thoughts are what you hear, but thoughts have no instruction.
Thoughts have no strategy. Thoughts cannot solve a problem intent, right,
So it's thinking is what you say. Thoughts are what
you hear. Thinking is what you say. It's your voice
and it's got to be the loudest one in the room.
So you can imagine when a big bull's coming and
you're like, oh my god, that thing's giant. Right, Well,
(00:22):
that's a thought that has no instruction, that has no
strategy to it. But you also can't necessarily control that
thought because it's coming in whether you like it or not. Cool,
let it in. But that's the cool thing. Like, that's
why I'm tapping you on the head with an arrow,
because you have thoughts of I just gotta tap me
on the head of an arrow that has no instruction,
that has no strategy. So you get reps in getting
(00:45):
loud with the right words at the right moment, which
is actually know is the ultimate skill to human being now, right,
So it's all based on this. Thoughts aren't thinking the
ultimate skill to human being open and closed the control
systems and visual appropriate reception. Right, So yeah, in the
mental game equation, yeah, that's a big one, right, so
(01:05):
figuring that out like what is the mental game.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Out here? The stakes are real. Effective preparation starts with fitness,
but it requires so much more. This show explores the tools, knowledge, resilience,
and skills needed to be ready when it matters the most.
Join me Rich Browning as we apply the decades of
wisdom I've gained through training and competition to hunting in
(01:33):
the back country. This is In Pursuit, brought to you
by Mount Knums in collaboration with Mayhem Hunt Joel Turner. Yeah. Man,
it's been a year in the making, right since Brian backstory.
We'll get into your backstory, but my backstory with you
(01:55):
is if this is the first time we've met it
for some we really even talk. You get in here,
but Brian call, we were shooting at Tack last year
and no less than twenty times. Well it was as
soon as you shot. Yeah, yeah, it didn't start out
well that we didn't have the bow sided in. We'd
been shooting Hoye for years and I got an elite
probably what the week before, and we didn't really sight it.
(02:17):
In first two targets. We're kill shots, but they were
head shots. Oh good. Yes, we got her dialed in
for the second day and it was infinitely better. But yeah, Brian,
Brian was uh, he just kept saying, Man, I gotta
get you a Joel Joel, fix you you know, so
uh here we are. Oh yeah, man, glad to have you.
(02:38):
We just kind of did a little mock shot IQ.
Course it was awesome. Yeah, tell tell everybody who doesn't
know who you are little you know, we can get
into We'll get into the shot IQ stuff of course,
because that was awesome, but like kind of walk us
through who you are and how you got here.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, So it was just, uh, my life has been
all about shooting. And I started shooting a bow when
I was seven, and by the age of eight, I
was fully engulfed in target panic, not knowing exactly what
it was. But I couldn't aim anywhere close to a target,
Like I would hold five feet off of a target
and then just dump my bow and let it go,
you know, shooting a little stick bow at the time,
(03:16):
and then that progressed the compounds and everything else. But
I just loved shooting so much. Like when we were
growing up, my brothers we would all get a BB
gun when we were nine, so I couldn't wait till
I was nine years old. Well, my brother Pete's three
years older than me, so I wore his bb gun
out when I was six, and then I wore my
other brothers out when I was eight. And then when
I got my BB gun, I got a Daisy eight
(03:37):
eighty power line because my dad saw something in me,
I guess, so I wore that thing out. But shooting
air rifles twenty two's was easy. It was money because
there was no requil But man, you put me on
a centerfire rifle and I was a nightmare, really, And
you know, it's just the way it works. It's just
how your brain works. But I didn't know. I was
a little kid, and so you know, life progresses and
(03:59):
through high school and we shoot lots of archery tournaments
and all that, and I was pretty good, but I
was not that good. I mean I wanted, I want
to be really good, and I couldn't aim at a target.
So I took my sights off my bow, so I
started shooting bear bow. You know, I'm like, why would
I have a sight on here if I can't get
anyways to the point where it is funny because a
(04:21):
real good friend of mine is a chiropractor and I
used to go over to his house in like the
sixth grade, and I would go to his house because
he had a giant log pile next to his target.
So he'd have his baiales and this giant deck of logs.
So and we're both fully I mean, he had targabatic
worse that I like. He couldn't even get his compound
to full draw without letting it go. So this is
(04:42):
before release ags, right, So they was just shooting with
fingers and we would both draw our bows back and
aim at the log pile and then we'd swing them
over and shoot the target. It was a nightmare, right,
So college happens. I still shoot my bow. I started
working a bow shop when I was sixteen years old.
Love that, and just there was a few shooters there
(05:05):
that were shooting this thing called a hinge release, right,
they called the backtencher release at the time. And they
would yard on this thing and they'd pull super hard,
but they would shoot these surprise brakes and it was
just fascinating to me. I never could figure it out.
I started shooting one of those releases. I've gone through
the gamut of everything that's available and life progresses. And
(05:25):
then I became a wildlife specialist with USDA Wildlife Services,
where we did a lot of shotgun work and air
rifle work. So I was money right, but you put
me on a coyote contract with a center fire rifle,
and I didn't know how I was going to go.
Then I became a cop, and that's what really had
to push me over the edge as far as and
I got to figure this stuff out. And when I
(05:48):
was in the academy as where I really learned that
I loved instructing. I loved teaching people. I didn't really
know what to teach at the time, but I just
knew I loved being in front of people and instructing.
So in the academy, I actually fudged the system a
little bit because everybody else's shooting a glock. Well, because
I was still a trigger puncher at the time, I
(06:09):
bought a nineteen eleven epistol had a much shorter trigger
stroke on it. So I took top firearms in the academy.
You know, look at me, you know the top firearms.
But the cool thing was is that I started to
figure out how I did it right. And then two
years into my law enforcement career, became a fiarms instructor,
and that's where I really started to see, like, why
(06:30):
is this farms instructor yelling front site, front site, front
site when the front site is not the problem?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Like I'm aiming good, Like I'm aiming where I need
to aim. But then I yanked the trigger and it's
all for not. So are we saying the right things
to the students right? And that's where I really started
to do the research and started to figure things out.
And then one day I talked to recruit through a
shot and I'm like, that worked pretty good. That was
(06:57):
my light bulb moment to where I saw that their
trigger finger was moving in the exact rate of which
I spoke. And then I had them speak to me
and it was completely different. Their speech pattern had crazy
anxiety and all kinds of like oh, keep resident, keep resident,
keep present right. It was crazy listening to them talk, like, man,
(07:18):
I'm getting a view right into their head as to
what's really going on in there. And then I started
to do more research, and then I had a fellow
tell me that what I was doing work, but it
wasn't right, and he was big into kinnesthesiology, martial artist.
He was a smart man. Him and I did not
see eye to eye on much, but he said, what
you're doing works, but it's not right. And I'm like,
(07:40):
I need to know what's right. At this time, I'm
the lead fararm instructor for Washington State, so every police
officer had to come through our team for firearms training.
And he told me that I'm like, well, what's right?
And he's like, you got to take my class. I'm like,
sign me up. So I took his class and Advanced
Concepts of Mode Learning and Performance, Okay, and that's where
I learned things about open and closed the control systems.
(08:03):
But what I also learned is it had never been
put into shooting. And then we learned about neuro linguistic
programming never been put into shooting right, and all these
other things, visual appropriate reception, never been said anything regarding shooting.
So I took those sciences and I kind of packaged
them together into what is now shot IQ. So that's
(08:25):
kind of how it all came to Fruition. And my son, Bodie.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Turner is incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, he's considered one of the greatest archers on the plant.
He's only eighteen years old. He's won numerous world championships.
But he started shooting about at ten and a half
months old. He couldn't even stand up yet. But by
the age of three, I bought him as first compound.
And what do you think I saw when I put
a little index finger trigger. He punched the crap out
of it at three years old. Because that's what we do, right,
(08:53):
that's what we're doing. We time an explosion. If we
can time it, we do. The subconscious will not allow
to cause your body impact as a surprise. So I
saw that, and I've been through a lifetime of that.
I'm like, there's no way I'm allowing my son to
go down the same path that I did. So, but
in archery it's cool because there's mechanical fixes to mental problems.
(09:14):
Like most kids now that don't have enough determination to
override their own central nervous system, which is most kids,
I put them in a resistance activated release because it's
got a safety on it, so it mechanically separates them
from the aim and from their shot activation movement. So
you know when your son really gets into shooting. First thing,
I would do is put them in a resistance release
(09:35):
until he understands this is how we do it, and
we draw back an aim, then we take the safety off,
then we say here I go. Then we just pull
right yep. And of course there's a bit more to
it than that, but not really. And once you do that,
you get them to separate and you don't have to
teach them. It's not like and it's tough for dads
to teach their kids anything because biologically we're not supposed
(09:56):
to teach them. So they're supposed to learn from Uncle Bob.
But the next tribe over right, right, So we always
run into those issues. So I never like sat body
down and said this is how we're going to learn
how to shoot archery. I just let him do his business,
and I would put these little things in cues, right,
these little things. When he was shooting a stick bow'd
have him shooting a clicker right of my counter receptive trigger,
(10:16):
just so he got used to separating from the aim.
That's the main thing. If you can just get people
to separate away from the aim and then learn how
to put their conscious mind into something more important. If
I could just get young hunters and kids to say,
here I go between the aim and the trigger work,
it would be so much more successful.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, that was one of the big I don't know
how much you want to talk about it and not
give away too much, but today one of the big takeaways.
You know, we talk a lot about you know, talking
through things, and usually once you know, when we were talking,
usually the coach is giving the cue and the people
are trying to figure it out. So the participant or whoever,
(10:56):
you know, for us it would be the athlete actively talking.
Way they are connecting their movement to their own words,
to their own internal speak was huge. But the other
piece was you know, for me, I went to the
bow rack and Wayne was awesome, incredible, great, and I've
switched to it thumb since when I was there was
with a finger, but you know, I he did a
(11:20):
great job of equating it for my simple brain of all, right,
how would you approach a bar? How would you do
these things? And so you know I noticed today though
I have all these great cues and self talk until
I get to hear and ready to pull the trigger,
and so I just hadn't put those two together. And
so once this was set, I forgot about this front arm.
(11:41):
You know, we're talking archerie, we're talking about shooting bow.
So you know, my process is level target. Once I'm
on the target, then it was like, all right, find
the trigger and then we're using that what kind of
release it was that we were using today on clicker
on ex clicker, and so it almost like to me,
I think, all right, in a in a rifle, I
find that wall, and then when I find that wall,
(12:03):
then it's a slow pull from there. So then once
I was set up here, I forgot about everything else
up here, and now I'm literally all of my brain, sorry,
covered up a mic is just going to what my thumb?
That's all I'm thinking about, and trying to go as
slow as I can and still fighting against that urge
(12:24):
to just punch right. And so man, it's it's cool
now that I have those things to think about where
you know, before I was like, all right, I'm up,
I've got this. This front side almost is like two
separate things going on. You know, get that front site,
and then when it's it's set, I forget about it now,
and so now I'm like, all right, now I'm just
thinking about the thumb. So now to me, I get
(12:45):
obsessed with stuff. So now that's gonna be like i'm
aa and I do a lot better when like, yeah,
you tell me and then you're watching me, and then
I'm like screw it. Like I'm back and forth with
thinking about what he oh, he's watching. I'mna screw this up.
I'm I'll be obsessed with it for the next months
and I'll figure it out, you know, I'll go to
work on it. And so it's cool to have that now.
And once again, you know we words, right, you have
(13:06):
the words, and you have this process that you go
through and it's the same thing that we do in fitness.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, it's I mean, you're just building this toolbox. Like
like I was talking about earlier, like I don't have
to talk myself through a shot anymore. Boddy doesn't have
to talk to himself through a shot unless we see
a problem. Like we talked a little bit about thoughts
aren't thinking. But that's a huge concept, Like my buddy
Ben May in Australia told me that, and that's from Buddhism.
That's saying thoughts aren't thinking. And I kind of took
(13:35):
it and dissected it a bit like, thoughts are what
you hear, but thoughts have no instruction, Thoughts have no strategy.
Thoughts cannot solve a problem intent, right, So it's thinking
is what you say. Thoughts are what you hear. Thinking
is what you say. It's your voice and it's got
to be the loudest one in the room. So you
(13:55):
can imagine when a big bulls come and you're like,
oh my god, that thing's a giant. Right, Well, that's
a thought that has no instruction, that has no strategy
to it. But you also can't necessarily control that thought
because it's coming in whether you like it or not. Cool,
let it in, But that's the cool thing. Like, that's
why I'm tapping you on the head with an arrow
because you have thoughts of why is this guy tap
(14:15):
me on the head of the arrow that has no instruction,
that has no strategy. So you get reps in getting
loud with the right words at the right moment, which
is actually know is the ultimate skill the human being now, right,
So it's all based on this. Thoughts aren't thinking the
ultimate skill the human being open and closed the control
systems and visual appropriate reception. Right, So yeah, and the
(14:38):
mental game equation. That's a big one, right, So figuring
that out, like what is the mental game? It's understanding where, when,
and how to direct your conscious mind into a specific
task at a specific moment.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Once you have that definition, you have that equation. You
just take whatever problem you have, whatever the problem is,
you plug it into the equation like these steps. Yeah,
after the Rogan podcast, I had a French, the French
Olympic decathlon coach called me and asked me questions like
I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I don't even know what are the events of the cathlon?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, exactly, Like I didn't know what disciplines were in there.
I didn't even know there was ten of them, hence
the name.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So he said, I go, coach, what is the biggest
problem that the kathlon? Like, I have no idea. He's like,
I'll tell you right now. It's with my long jumpers.
I'm like, okay, he says, as they're running down the lane,
right before they put their foot on the launch board,
they put their shoulders back involuntarily and it kills the
momentum of the jump. Right, I'm like, okay, who knew?
(15:37):
But I'm like, okay, let's plug it. Into the mental
game equation, I said, coach, where do you want their
conscious mind? He said, I wanted in the longest jump possible.
He said, that's not the problem. The problem is in
the shoulders, right, So the ware of the mental game
equation is in the shoulders and keeping them forward. When
do you need it there, specifically right before they put
their foot on the launch board. How do you put
(15:59):
it there? The how of the mental game equation is
always speech. You do it all the time with all
these specific movements that you do in your in your workouts,
like you did it with me today, And but you
got to get your people talking out loud because then you,
as the coach, you can see exactly where they're putting
their conscious mind and when they're putting it there, and
that's what you're manipulating it as a coach.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
It's so uncomfortable, Yeah, talking about what you're like those steps, Yeah,
you know, but it is so true because then you're
actually you know, the thinking is action and so honestly
it's something that we can use in coaching, and what
we do is you know, I told you today and
it makes sense after you know, we were doing some
overhead pressing you've got a little bit of mobility issue.
(16:44):
But also, once I said something, all you did was
those elbows forward a little bit just to get in
that better driving position, tuck that chin, better bar path.
And so now you would say that instead of just
me every time you have to, you'd have to give
me the right words and the right moments. But then
once you do that, make them do You gotta make
the person do that right, and then you can as
(17:06):
the coach, you're seeing exactly what's going on. But I
told you I do that with the kids. I coach
coach slitch, and you know, I learned from another guy
coach ball game, and he's a magician with kids. That's
the big thing. You have them say triangle, alligator, vacuum,
and they just do it, you know, And so then
you just repetition. Repetition makes so much it won't take
(17:28):
We forget as adults.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah right, I mean, like I said, we're the master
of the unknown obvious. It's right there in front of us.
We do it all the time. But because we didn't
realize that the words were the skill, we skip over it,
like we jump right over that. Well, I'm getting to
do the triangle alligator vacuum. But you just do it,
but they don't say it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Say it.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And when you do that, when you have them say it,
you'll find it way less reps to it until they
get it, they'll get it way faster, way quicker.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Man, it makes so much sense and it's right there
in front of you and you don't even think about
you know, for years I've said it before. I I've
in the last probably seven eight years, gotten infinitely infinitely
better at coaching because I've seen so many more people.
When it was just me trying to tell people what
I do, I don't think about it as much. I'm like,
all right, walk up to the bar, grab it and go.
(18:18):
I don't you know, there's not this huge, long kind
of process. But now seeing which you probably see a
ton of people and see it do seem to do
it the wrong way, And now that you've attached words
to it, it helps. But I mean it can transfer
over into so many different things.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And like when I was listened to Steve Ranella on
one of his podcasts, he talked about like one of
the first shots that he was successful with a bow
because when you watch him shoot right now, like he
punches a trigger right, and not a bad thing. He
kills lots of stuff, but he could be better if
he wanted to be. But when he talked about this
(18:52):
one shot and his grandpa taught him to say, raise
the elbow right at a certain in his shot. And
I don't even know if Steve realizes this, but he
said it that one time because he talked about this
shot where he remembered saying that during his shot, and
he was successful in that shot. But I don't know
if he still says it right. Those words that he
(19:15):
got from his grandpa were the right words at the
right moment, right. His grandpa gave him that gift, and
I hope that he's still uses it well. I've always
wanted to explain that to him, like Steve, you did
it this one time, this is how you did it.
And that's what we find is really good shooters, really
good athletes, and whatever sport they are in, they don't
(19:36):
realize how they do what they do. They don't realize
that it's the speaking, it's the words that got them
to do the action. That's the skill. The action is
not necessarily the skill. That's the physical part of it.
But understanding how you do it, but we don't ask
that question. You know, we look at like if you
look at a famous archer, Let's say, you go, oh man,
(19:58):
what bow was he shooting? He he shooting? What release
is he shooting? How's he staying? All these things? I
want to know what he is saying. And if you
ask somebody what they're thinking, they'll usually only give you
their thoughts.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
The way you're saying things.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So very few of us ever asked that athlete, what
do you say? I will like that one guy is
and that's that's actually the skill, right, That is the
skill we're trying to get to. Right, what do you
say right before you do X?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
And once we get people to realize that, they take
a different approach, Like you're going to approach your shooting way,
You're going to approach your workouts differently. You're going to
approach your shooting during your workouts differently, Right, Like what
do I have to do in my workout to force
myself to get super loud in my shot? I mean,
that's so powerful, powerful.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
That's working out. One of the first things you said
this morning was that it would be interesting for you
just to see how we handled it. Rich being an athlete.
What what were you thinking there? And then were you
surprised at all with how today went?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I was surprised on I shouldn't say surprised, because you're
obviously with what you've done in your life and what
all of you have done with your lives. You're very determined,
right so, and that's the first ingredient. But we never knew.
Like I used to say, I can't teach you determination,
but I can teach you how to find it. Yeah,
now I know how to teach it because I know
(21:31):
the determination is now in the words you just spoke
very quickly in the signature test. Right, you only do
it twice, Josh, you only to do it twice? That
is that's very rare. We don't like to lose, yeah right, yeah,
but so you took that you don't like to lose
your life. Oh oh, this is like you had it
on your first one. Really, I just made you do
(21:52):
it again. So right, you are welcome, But actually one
line was off.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, my personal sucked.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So that's what it is, though, is really I wasn't
I wouldn't say surprised. What I saw in your shooting
is what I expected. But once you get the solution.
I knew that you'd get it pretty quickly, right, just
because of what I saw in the signature test. And
you've been able to do that so quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I'm all for the next. Like right now I'm doing
it on the back seam of this chair. Is just
like trying to go as slow as I can pulling
into this back seam of this chair. It's going to
be an obsession for the next.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And I think the handshake demonstration yeah helped.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, because you know, obviously we're we're talking about
this release and you get to a point where you
take the tension out and then from there, now I
can just like I can feel it, see it like
I can, you know, I'm on the back of this
chair just doing it. I also have a touch of
add so my brain goes to all those different spaces.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So but you'll just use things differently. The approach is
now changed.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
So now what you're doing when you hunt, you're actually
using that animal for concentration practice.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That's that's why you know, does are cool for meat,
but they don't they don't make you get as loud
as bucks. That's why people say, man, I can smoke
dose all day long, but you put a big bucket
from it and I just fall apart. That's because they
talk on the does or with the doe. Their thoughts
are not as loud, so they don't have to override it.
(23:23):
They don't have to get their thinking as loud. But
as soon as you put one hundred and eighty inches
of anler in front of on a white tailed bucket're like,
oh my god, I'm gonna be a hero.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Right that is?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
That's all thoughts man, Let's start talking with the right
words in the right moments.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I'm interested to see how now.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
One of the things I asked Rich a while back
is just that did he think like the high stress
moments he's been in high stress as far as competing
helped him in high stress moments, honey? And he said yes,
But would you say no because he wasn't necessarily talking
to himself.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Anytime you can inoculate yourself from stress is good, but
if you don't realize how you did it, it's not
as good as it could be.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I'm sure putting ourselves in stressful situations is awesome. But
let's say one time you were successful and you're like yeah, man,
I freaking did it. I don't know, and then the
next time you didn't do it, like, oh man, what
was it? And you know, talking to the Philadelphia Phillies
the pitching team, like, if you don't know how you
do what you do, you're you're a victim of good
days and bad days. And if you don't know the difference,
(24:31):
then you're just yeah, you're just on this emotional roller
coaster constantly. Like I want you to have those successes,
have those failures and know the difference. The difference is
you stopped talking right or you do or you weren't
loud enough. And that's all we've done today, is we've
put words to how you do what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And that you know, there has to be a point
too that it just becomes second nature. You are talking,
but you're not even thinking those thoughts because you've done
that repetition so many times. Does that happen to you?
I think about that with like a clean or a
snatch or any like the high complex movements for us,
or I know when I do it bad, when a
(25:12):
bar comes out or a bar you know the bar
path is is not good? Does that well that eventually.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Well one of the things in your workouts is all
of your movements are open loop. When you teach them,
you're teaching them closed loop. You're teaching them slow enough
that people can get the feedback and you know all
the stuff that you're doing. But then the natural path
of adult learning is you have the cognitive stage of
learning where you do most of your self instruction. Then
(25:42):
you practice with the goal of becoming automatic. So in
the past when you would shoot during your workouts, you're
shooting for results on the target. Right, Oh yeah, stricken
smoked it. And then you go back to working on
and I smoked it, but you couldn't couldn't be because
you're still working the trigger open loop. You were not
treating that rep as you could. Right now you're like,
(26:07):
of course you're gonna smoke it. Why wouldn't you because
you've aimed in the middle and this is the goal
now is just jorking through that trigger so slow, Like
that's why I shoot on one foot like during during
the Vegas shoot and the practice ends, like you get
two practice ends of two minutes and you can shoot
as many arrows as you want, like you know in
(26:28):
the actual competition is three arrows for two minutes indoor.
But in these practice sessions you'll see me standing on
the line shooting on one foot, and people like, Turner,
what are you doing? I'm like, well, here's the deal.
I know that on my first scoring ends at Vegas
or big tournaments, I shake more than normal. Right, And
if I go up there and I shoot on one
(26:48):
foot in my practice ends and I replicate that amount
of shake, I'm like, cool. I get reps and letting
go of the aim, right, whereas everybody else is just
trying to shoot x's in their practices. To make sure
everything's right. Right, you've got to be able to step
away from the shake, the aim. Those are all just
(27:09):
problems that increase the volume of thoughts. So I'm getting
reps and increasing the volume of my thinking. Right. So,
now you're using your workouts in that same way. Of course,
you're going to hit the middle. Why wouldn't you? Right, So,
and if you don't hit the middle, but you still
broke a clean shot, well that is an absolute win.
(27:29):
Maybe not for the arrow, but it's a win for
what you were trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Right, that ultimate skill like this the old brains brain.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Well, and then you would say mental toughness. Like for us,
we say we do hard things and that actually makes
us mentally tough for the next thing. But you would
say you're mentally tough when you can talk to yourself
loud enough.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
All you're doing is you're creating situations where if you're
not loud enough, you will fail.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Okay, I have a great question for you. Hit me,
because this is what people Internet people say. One of
the things we do like to do is like shoot,
I say, under fatigue, but everybody's under fatigues different. So
like do like a zone two, get your heart rate
sixty seventy percent, and maybe do a shot or two
from there. Some people say it's so crazy, that's the
(28:22):
dumbest thing to do.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
What would you.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Say, I'd say it's beautiful, of course, hell ya right,
because you have to get loud. That's what you're doing.
You're forcing yourself because when you're fatigued, you have thoughts
of oh my god, my breathing, I can't breathe, Oh
my gosh, there's no way I can do this. Those
are all thoughts, man, and they're coming whether.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You like it or not.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Let them in.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, And the truth is if you're out counting.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Like those thoughts. You can't there's so much you can't get.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
We've hiked two miles literally up hills and had to
shoot almost right, Yeah, as soon as we got there,
had to shoot, you know what I mean. So like
there's to me, that's the best thing to put yourself
into that such.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
All you're doing is you're manually increasing the volume of thoughts.
When you work out, when you stand on one foot,
you're manually increasing the volume of thoughts so that you
get reps and increasing the volume of your thinking.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I hope everybody listens to this.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I want to go shoot on that BOSU ball out
there too.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh that's rad. Yeah, it's all good anything you can do.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But we have this uh I don't know. Yeah, you
draw that thing and it starts doing this right here.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
It's a it must stand on the top of it when.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You are one foot doing some like crane and stuff.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So what you guys are doing is spot on, and
I wish more people would do that. But I think
that it's starting to get out there. Like like we said,
if somebody puts a shot on the internet and they
punch a trigger, like they are judged.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Everybody finds it. It's like me when I did a
hunt like years ago, not years ago. Still happens hunting posts.
Everybody finds it. Like people that don't even follow me
unfollow you know whatever, but the same sing with a
punch of trigger man man. Everybody loves to tell you
they get on it.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah, a lot of really good archers out there, a
lot of really.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Good Internet archers. Internet archers. You get, you get much Internet? Yeah, lots.
You like it too, huh yeah, yeah, I enjoyed it.
At this point. My wife gets a little bit down
on it, and I'm just like, let it come.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, it's uh. You know when Dan Staton we used
to do that. We still do the Elk Shape camp
and and I was pretty hard on people in that
first few arrows, right, And I did that for a
purpose to get them to increase. I mean, I'm talking
to him, I'm asking them, you know, all kinds of questions,
and I'm razing them. And and he put that first
(30:41):
video out of me doing that. Beople like who is
this guy? He's a major a hole and stuff, and
so much so that Dan had to put out another
video explain I'm just I'm just increasing the volume of
their thoughts. Yeah, that's all I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I think it's great because when that animal walks out.
I mean I've had thoughts of like, you know, when
it walks out and it's just not happening and not
turning and doing what you need it to do, and
you're just like, I want this to end at some point,
Like I don't care if it's an arrow fired or something.
But you're like in this stuck in this lock step.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
People get to the point where they they hope it
doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, because you don't want to fail.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, you don't hope it does. Oh good that elk
went the other way, right man.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I used to be that.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I mean, it took me thirteen years to kill a
bull elk with my bow. I'm a two time world
out calling champion. I can call these things in like
a chicken on a string, but I couldn't hit them
come up with us. Yeah, I mean, thirteen years of failure.
But I loved it so much. But I was that guy.
I'm like, oh man, oh good he didn't come in.
(31:42):
I didn't have to fail again. Thirteen years of that.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Right Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And then now that I have control. I'm like, come on,
bring it on. Man.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I love it because it's just the ultimate test that
you're uh yeah, well, you know we've talked a couple
of times. I feel like hunting is for me. You know,
it was such an easy transition from competing to elk hunting.
Elk hunting is kind of my passion. Well, definitely my passion.
It's the ultimate competition, you know, like it's the first
competition that was ever on earth. Really, what's your what's
(32:13):
your elk? Your favorite?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Absolutely? I like collars, like everybody else is like, man,
I stock him. I you know, I don't stand. I'm like,
I don't do any of that. I call them. Yeah,
that's the experience that I want. I've killed enough bulls
now that you know I've I can feel a freezer.
But I want to call bulls and that's the experience
that I am hunting, right. I want to have that
as that experience as many times as possible until I
(32:35):
am dead.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
We're at the like stage of we just want experiences,
you know. Sure, you know we we talked last time too.
I couldn't tell you what a three hundred inch bull
looks like if he's legal. I like people. I've had
to be talked out of animals at times because I'm
in that phase. You know, I just enjoy it, man,
I love being out there. It's just kind of my
(32:56):
it's where I'm at. Everybody's like, if you could hunt
anything anywhere, I'm like, September Oak, you know for sure,
I don't care where.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, And so on that note, right, you've got your
your CrossFit competitions, you've got hunting. Those are all primal skills. That's,
in my opinion, what we're supposed to be doing. And
I saw that as a cop where I didn't have
to go to I don't think I ever went to
a family that hunted together for domestic violence or anything, right,
(33:24):
Like that just wasn't part of the equation. And on
that note, it's like silent places are special, and that's
what I find. Like I've dealt with lots of very
wealthy people now, and it seems like they don't have
the silent places, right, whether that's to get close to
(33:45):
God or just be quiet for a minute or whatever
it is. Right, Like you get on a mountaintop in
September and just just don't talk for a second, just
like take it all in and it's amazing. That's one
of the things about Montana where I live in Montana,
of like there's places out there where you can just
stop moving and you can't hear it.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I never understand. I never understood that, and you just stop. Yeah,
You're sitting there one morning and it was so quiet
that it was loud, you know, like it's just it
blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, it's crazy. Like I was. I was wolf hunting
two years ago. Yeah, and I well, we had had
some kill somewhere, cattle, but we were I was laying
there and it was cold, its five degrees and it
was dark, and I'm laying there and it's so quiet
(34:43):
that I can hear the snowflakes hitting my face. It
was it was wild man, so good. But that's you know,
people don't have those places. And if you don't have
those places, man, you don't realize how loud your thoughts are.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
You know. Yeah, yeah, because those the thoughts will be
loud when it's boy even more quiet or man, when
even when it's loud, when you got that screaming bowl, Yeah,
that's when they're the loudest, huh, or you're hearing those
footsteps if you're close enough to hear footsteps, yeah, or
Antler's breaking things. Oh yeah, it's cool. It's awesome and
and it's hard to tell people how awesome that is
(35:19):
until they experience it, you know, Man, Yeah, it just
makes me want what month is it now? It's June? June,
not close. I just got off an Axis hunt and
it was it was. It moved pretty close to Elk.
It was awesome. It was a great time in Texas.
But man, I just I'm ready for September. What do
you what? What hunts do you have planned this year? Oh?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Man, I've got how many you calling versus how many
are you hunting? Let's see, I'll be calling for body first.
He's got a good Elk tag in Montana. I've got
a good Elk tag in Montana. But I'll be calling
for him, and I'm calling for another family, and then
I'm calling in Colorado and I'll be able to hunt
down there as well. Then back to Montana ago.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Okayahs, So you know you two things I want to
talk about. Well, one is you said you called in
how many two years ago? So fifty four two years
ago and thirty eight thirty I don't know if I've
ever seen fifty four bull elk and then thirty eight
last year. That's insane, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah, to haunt some amazing places, But do.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
You want to give away those like two things you
told me, like the two Tucher calls? Yeah, let's go
because that was interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So I learned how to elk call from being a cop,
like I learned how to make all I've been calling
elk since I was twelve years old. That's when my
dad bought me my first mouth read. And lucky for me,
I started out right nobody to teach me. I just
was able to make sounds with it. And then those
sounds got pretty good and I figured some stuff out.
But when I became a cop, like I became a
(36:51):
cop in two thousand and one, I won the World
Championships in two thousand and eight and in twenty ten,
So I could make all the sounds, but I hadn't
put it all together yet because I was doing the
same stuff that I was hearing other bugling with chuckling,
cow calling, you know, you challenge the bull or you
cow call and all this stuff, and I'm like, hmm,
(37:12):
this isn't how it works in real life, Like, this
isn't how humans behave. So I listened to a CD
one time Sounds by the Elk from Elk Nat Paul
Madell and he's a fantastic wealth of knowledge on elk calling.
But I listened to CD and he's got this is
a bull calling cows And it had all these bulls
bugling doing this bugle. I'm like, none of those are chuckling.
(37:36):
This is strange. There was no chuckles in any of those,
so I'm like, hmm. So then i started watching all
this footage of elk. I'm like, when these bulls are
in their cows, they don't chuckle. That's when they're talking
to their cows, they don't chuckle. So I'm thinking, okay,
but when you hear another bull bugle in the background
or something, then that bull will bugle with a chuckle.
(37:57):
So we know that a bull bugling with a chuck
is a multiple communication. And I'm thinking, I mean, I've
been to hundreds of bar fights, right, and as a cop,
and like, what's the fight over? Oh he's talking to
my girl, right, I'm like ding ding ding ding, Okay,
this is I mean, this is how you would get
in a fight. Ye, Like, you don't just walking if
(38:18):
you want to get in a fight with the dude,
you don't walk in a bar and insult the dude.
You insult his female, his female, right, his significant other,
whatever that may be. You talk to them and only them.
You don't even talk to him like you imagine, like, hey, baby,
you want to go to make a calf, right, and
he's like, hey, dude, you're talking to my girl. That's
him bugling back at you. And you just give him
(38:40):
the hand and you keep talking to her. He's going
to become so enraged that he just loses his mind
and he's going to punch you. Right, Well, that's what
we're seeking in the Elk Woods. So why are we
going into the bar and talking to the dude? Why
are we going in and bugling and chucklin Because yeah,
you'll get in a fight every now and again that way.
But it's all based on the attitude of the recipient
(39:01):
of that call. Right, if you deal with his significant other,
it's instinctive. Right now, he has to remove you from
the bar because he wants to make a calf with
that cow every single year, right, So that's just the
way it works, So I quit bugling with chuckling. Now,
when a bull has cows, I just slide in tight
on the cows. I try to get within one hundred
(39:23):
yards of them. Sixties better right, and you just bugle, short, raspy,
no chuckles is the key. Don't chuckle because then he
will talk back to you. You don't talk to him.
If he starts raking a tree to display, you just
talk right over the top of him to his ladies.
Just do that bull calling cow's bugle again, short, raspy,
(39:45):
no chuckles, and he will come in and try to
kill you. There's no hang up spot. That's the beautiful
part about it. There's no suspicion. There's no hang up spots.
They get all puffed up and they just walk in
real slow like a bull moose. They all do it right.
So that's one spectrum if he's got cows that we're
gonna use. The other spectrum is everybody wants a cow call. Well,
(40:09):
when was the last time that a group of females
human females got together and talk nicely about another female
that wants to procreate with the man that they've chosen
as a group. That's never happened, right, So when you
get close to cows and you cow call, they will
not allow the bull to go play with the hussy
and the bushes. So you no cow calls, keep it
(40:34):
on the calf spectrum, because then you dive into the
instincts again. When you stay on the calf spectrum, you're
sexually neutral. Now, you're not a sexual threat to these
cows anymore. So, Like, if we're sitting here having this
podcast and an adult female starts screaming outside, we're gonna
move our location. We're gonna look at the door like
peak out, like, what the heck's going on out there?
(40:55):
But if it's a it's suspicion. That's where you get
the hang up spots on these bulls. They hung they
hang up seventy eighty yards away. But when you calf call,
like if there's a kid, if there's a kid hurt
out there, we're all running out there, willy nilly, inhibitions
thrown to the wind. We don't care, right, we're gonna
help that infant. Well, bulls just happen to be pedophiles
(41:16):
as well. They don't care how old.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
The calf is.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Right, So you've got the maternal instincts of the female,
you've got the sexual drive of the male, and it's
just like a free for all. So when you learn
that calf distress call, and get emotional with it, even
to the point where if you've got to use a
predator call, do that. If you can't use a mouth
rade very well, but get emotion in there. And if
(41:40):
there are cows there that you didn't know about, like,
if you knew about them, then you'd use the bull
calling cow's miigel. But if sometimes you don't know that
there's cows there, they come right in and the bulls
are right on their tail. But if that bull doesn't
have cows, he will he comes in just willy nilly.
They come in super close. There's no hang up spot.
You don't have have to you know, you don't have
(42:01):
to move locations. He's coming right to you. And you
can also do almost inaudible calf sounds when he's close.
A lot of times the bull will mew to you
and it sounds hideous, really oh my ah, all right,
And you know if you hear this real raspy, deep mew,
he's mewing to the calf. He is fully committed to
(42:22):
the relationship with that calf. At that point, they will
like the first time you do a calf's a distressed calf,
they will usually do a bull calling cow's bugle, So
they'll bugle, short, raspy, no chuckles. They will not chuckle
when there's when you do a calf sound, unless every
now and again they'll do a bull check what I
call a bull check that they'll check to see if
you have a bull with you, So they'll bugle with
(42:44):
kind of this wimpy chuckle and if they don't hear anything,
if you just keep your calf call going, that's when they'll.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
It's the exact situation that happened last year. I know, yeah,
remember that bull just kind of did.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
I thought you were going to bring up the moment I.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Was not going to bring up.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
So that's what happens. They'll bull check you, and then
you stick with the calf sounds and then they just
they come right and they'll start muant.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Situation as we call I'm just messing around with my
I'm trying to learn my cow cal and I probably
did a crappy little women higher pitch than no, and
so we hear it. We're like, oh, sweet. So we
start you going at him, can't get him to come in.
We try to move in on him. He keep he
would answer, but he was going away. Noah with born
(43:31):
and raised like calf call rake right in yep.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And you probably didn't even need to do the raking
portion of it, because raking is a display.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I mean you.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
I don't introduce a bull into the situation unless I
have to write, and when I do, the bull is
never the subject of my calling. Like I don't talk
to him at all either. I'm a distressed calf and
I want to know where everybody's at. And that's a
beautiful thing about that distressed calf sound is it doesn't
drive elk away. So use it to sound check when
you go over that next ridge, sound check that canyon.
(44:04):
If nothing calls back to you or breaks a branch
or moves, there's nothing there. That's how I treat it.
Nothing there, Move on right, and I'll go to the
next train feature. Because bugles and calf calls don't go
over train features. So when you get to that next
train feature, sound check it nothing there? Cool? Sound check
it Oh a cow? Muwe back to me? Now I
know he's got cows. Now I'm gonna hunt the cows.
(44:27):
Goull calling cow's bugle.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
If a bull bugles back to me, I'm gonna check
him like okay, when he bugles again. If he has moved,
he doesn't have cows. If he has not moved, he
has cows. So I treat it as such. Right, So
it's super simple. You only need to really know two sounds.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Never focus on your target.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Right, bull calling cows bugle and calf distress and you're
calling odds will skyrocket?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
You heard you heard it? There? See what else you got?
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Really kind of for both of you. Just would you agree, disagree,
or even talk about just how if it does. Does
controlled shooting complement explosive fitness, because that's what some people say,
you know, crossfits explosive fitness. So do those two compliment
each other in any way?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
I would say yes, because you're practicing getting loud in
your head, right, you can use this is the ultimate
skill of the human being. It's how we literally do everything.
So if you're using it for fitness, cool, Just realize
that most of those movements are open loop. But take
that same loudness, that same speech to this very minute
(45:49):
movement in the trigger press. Just take that and focus
it in to this movement that's so slow you could
stop it, like every now and again, move a barbell
so slow that you could stop, right, you could do
this everywhere.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
And use everyone actually slow And yeah, so that's great.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Right, And so just realize how you're doing what you're
doing and then put it into everything in your life.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
And it just works sense. Yeah, yeah, I would say, yes,
there's so many parallels. There's so many things you can
flip flop. I will say, the one piece that is
missing is that just single finger kind of dexterity type thing.
But yeah, I mean, we are, you know, you are
(46:37):
switching grips. You are, you know, But there's just the
one thing that I will have to work on a
ton of. But I also, I mean, I guess when
I'm jumping rope, at times I'll move my thumbs around
or like try to change different things. But I'll now
think about those things more and attach, you know, just
when I'm doing them that I notice that I am
thinking of those little things, like little things that I
(46:59):
don't you know, there are more thoughts than thinking to
your the way you say it. But I think there's Yeah,
there's so many parallels. There's you know what we were
when I was showing him earlier with that bamboo bar
and just how much it moves, Like, the more you could,
you know, get all those muscles to kind of work
and fire in the kinesthetic awareness, appropriate reception, whatever, interchangeable. Yeah,
(47:23):
Like there is so many parallels to archery to other
types of shooting that why would we not train and
why would we not create balance across different muscle groups
to where you know, yes, you can draw a heavier bow,
you can do certain things, you can have more control
of those those motor patterns.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, it's just understanding. Again, I know I sound like
a broken record. I'd say it, man, Now, it's how
do you do it? Right? And again when you are
the athlete, when you if you don't know how you
do it, your skills are gonna die with you.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Yeah, right, even more of just like the actual movement
I would say, probably doesn't happen with you as much.
But just like when you're shooting that you're putting your
concentration somewhere else, right, so eliminate the target. Whereas a
lot of times maybe you're hurting so bad if you
your thoughts are loud enough you then you stop concentrating
(48:20):
on that and you can maybe even go a little further.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Your mind stops way before your body does, right, I
mean that's what you guys are doing that. Well, we
need one more rep How are you going to get it?
The only way you can get it is by getting loud,
and a lot of people don't know what it means
to get loud. So that's where you know, some of
the online courses that I do, the mind IQ course,
we teach you how to get loud in your head.
Like it's pretty it's not difficult, but if you don't
(48:44):
ever practice it, practice it's it's we know now that
it's the skill, and we're all chasing so we're everything
that we're doing and working out or shooting bows or
whatever you do in your life, right, use it words,
use it to strengthen that skill.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Man. It's it's you know, so basic as simple, but
also pretty profound if you think about it. We just
don't you just do it right, you know, and especially
with what to connect it back to what we do.
And I've done it for so long, and I you
know I said it earlier, but I just never thought
about it. It was just well I thought about it,
but I never really like really broke it down and
(49:26):
put those things into words.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
It's when you're you know, when you're the athlete. If
you don't know, okay, you don't know, but if you
if you're really good at it, but then you're gonna
have to teach it.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Sometimes you're going to get old and you can't do
it right.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
And you're gonna have to coach it sometime. And that's where,
you know, don't let your skills die with you. And
that's when we do it where good coaches do it
this way, but maybe they don't realize it, and maybe
they're not having their students do the talking form right.
We got it as coaches. We give them the right
words in the right moments. But then we got to
hand it all off and let them do it so
(50:01):
we can see what did they actually get out of
what I.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Just told them? Yeah, make them do it, Like are
they actually paying attention? Are they actually taking away what
I want them to?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Where are they putting their conscious mind? And when are
they putting it there? And because you know where to
put it and when to put it there, you're like, oh,
I need you to say it a little sooner, Like
as soon as you start lifting, as soon as you
start pressing, chin right, you gotta say chin right, elbows, chin,
whatever it may be. Right. So, and you're you're coaching then,
(50:30):
and people like, well.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
What do I say? I don't know what to say?
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Just talk like you're teaching. If you talk like you're teaching,
you'll never be searching for words, and like, really, how
do you talk somebody through something? And people like I
draw back an aim, then I address a trigger and
here I go, and then squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. Well there's
a bunch of little speech in there.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
There's need to keep freaking squeezing. I wish this stupid
thing would go off, or you're ever going to go off?
Is they're going to go there?
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Who are you talking to?
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Right?
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Is this thing ever gonna go off? You're talking to
a piece of metal. Are you not talking to your
muscles anymore? You gotta talk to your muscles. But if
you didn't talk out loud, you don't know what you're saying.
And when you have people talk out loud, you instantly
cut through the thoughts like nobody's gonna draw back.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
Okay, I'm drawing back and aiming. Okay, I got my
pin in the middle. Okay, I'm putting my thumb on
the button.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Got that here?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I go.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Man, I hope I don't miss.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
They're never gonna say that out loud. Yes, they just
they had that thought. You can't control thoughts. But because
they're not gonna say that out loud, that's why the
commentary shooting is so important. It cuts through all the
crap and you just say what you need.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
To say because you're trying to say it right. Makes sense? Yeah, man,
so simple yet so profound. Once again, what else you
got anything else on there?
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Not much? I was the last thingk just lighter note.
Just you did train today?
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:59):
How'd that go?
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It was awesome. I learned a lot about my I
was nervous, like I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Who you were.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
I'm sorry, and I love that I looked you.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
I'm like, holy smokes man. I haven't done a CrossFit
workout since I left the SWAT team. I'm like, oh man,
that was three years ago. So at home, I've been
doing some stuff. Yeah, a little bit of prep work,
and I'm thinking, man, this guy's gonna just absolutely crush me,
and you certainly could have. Thank you for not absolutely
crushing me. But I learned a lot about like how
(52:30):
weak my left shoulder is, Like I've always had movement problems.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
That necessarily weak. You're just weak in certain ranges of me.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, and man, that was an eye opener. Like you
had me try to lift an eighteen pound kettlebell upside down,
upside down and I could like get it to right here.
I'm like, I'm trying to get loud in my head,
and I'm like, I got it going anywhere, Like it
didn't matter how loud I got, I couldn't go anymore.
And so all the exercise we did were very eye open.
(53:01):
Thank you for working out with me, Bird, it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
We did a ton of just to give people well
you can see it on the accompanying video. We did
a ton of shoulder stuff just because you'd been, you know,
talking about how your shoulder had been bugging you. I've
had shoulder issues. I've switched to left handed because of
those shoulder issues, and so I've been there, done that,
and uh, Bird has some shoulder issues, but didn't even
jump in we'll fix that. Sorry.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
It was working.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah, sure, but did a great job in what's lucky
for you. You know, if this was fifteen years ago,
we would have just like we're just gonna We're just
gonna go in and we're gonna smash each other. Like yeah,
you know, you gotta like there's like a badge of
honor of we got to show people how hard this
is and how awesome it is. And over the years,
probably like you have, yeah, you've learned if you scare
(53:44):
people away, it's.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Not And that's where I've been scared away from it
because like on the SWAT team, we had all these
CrossFit dudes and I was never that guy and we
do this CrossFit workout and I couldn't walk for like
three days, and like this, man, I gotta be able
to like you still the next day.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I'll get There are going to be some some days.
If you get into it, you are going to have
some of those days and they're going to happen. These
were like.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Once a month. Yeah, I rush your face and then
I'm like, man, I don't want I hate this, but
today was like functional and learned a lot and it
was awesome and I you know, I'm going to go
home and I'm gonna get the equipment that I need,
which is not a lot, and I need to get
this shoulder fixed fixed up. I don't want to do surgery.
I just want to get it better, like I've been
(54:29):
living with it. I heard it in twenty nineteen. Cool
thing was I heard it packing out a giant bowl,
which was cool, but it wasn't some whimp story. Yeah
so but yeah, man, I really appreciate it. It was awesome.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, no, you did great, And you know that's what
we want to, like, meet people where they're at in
the fitness. I wanted you to get a similar stimulus.
Like the workout we did was just as hard as
it was for me and Ben as it was for
you guys. So that's the whole point, all right, if
somebody's to walk like, first of all, shot iq you
courses and yeah iq.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Dot com so I've got online courses in archery, rifle, pistol,
and then the mind iq courses for all other sports.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
All right, one takeaway that you want everybody listening, what
do you got?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
The one thing is talk yourself through a shot out loud.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
And record it, record it. I hate hearing my voice.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Yeah, people hate hearing themselves. Whatever. It's public speaking, it's
public humilation, it's the this is the greatest fear of
the human being. But when you talk out loud, you go,
oh and record it so you can play it back.
And because now, I mean when they I've done enough
of these podcasts talking about this stuff, and the people like, oh,
I'm not talking anymore, or I never talked, or I'm
(55:49):
I'm thinking about the game. I'm talking about the game.
Like I had a guy the other day, okay, draw back.
Speaker 4 (55:54):
An aaim, got it, I'm addressing the trigger here, I
go game aim.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
And you're still talking about the aim, and then he
punched the trigger. I'm like, who are you talking to?
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (56:05):
What are you talking to? So just get out there,
even if you don't know anything about shot IQ, just
how do you talk yourself through it? Because just doing
that it will override your thoughts and it will set
you on the path.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
So cool. Yeah, my big takeaway was I've just had
so much emphasis on the front side of the shot
that i just forget about the backside, right, you know,
you think punch or just hit the trigger, I'm on
the target whatever, And so for me, the big takeaway was.
The emphasis goes from once that set, you forget about
that front side, and then it's almost like you cut
your body in half and I'm like, all right, I'm
(56:42):
just thinking about what's going on back here.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah, you subcon allow your subconscious to handle the aiming
for you. Never let it handle the trigger work for you.
And that's been a big thing in archery instruction for
a long time, like just you know, shoot so many
times and groove it into the subconscious and then in
high stress, the subconscios take care are you. Of course
it will, but it's also going to punch the trigger. Right,
but it's kept you alive for this long. But just
(57:06):
delegate it, right, Allow it to do the work that
it's really good at. Don't allow it to do the
work that it's perfect at.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
It.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
Hey, don't let it take this stuff from you.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Sweet awesome man. Well, I appreciate you coming out. It
was awesome. You have to come back and hang out anytime.
Appreciate it and hunt with us and actually teach us
what to do the right way. I'll call you. I'm in.
We've got some fox a spot that you need. More
spots
Thoughts are what you hear, but thoughts have no instruction.
Thoughts have no strategy. Thoughts cannot solve a problem intent, right,
So it's thinking is what you say. Thoughts are what
you hear. Thinking is what you say. It's your voice
and it's got to be the loudest one in the room.
So you can imagine when a big bull's coming and
you're like, oh my god, that thing's giant. Right, Well,
(00:22):
that's a thought that has no instruction, that has no
strategy to it. But you also can't necessarily control that
thought because it's coming in whether you like it or not. Cool,
let it in. But that's the cool thing. Like, that's
why I'm tapping you on the head with an arrow,
because you have thoughts of I just gotta tap me
on the head of an arrow that has no instruction,
that has no strategy. So you get reps in getting
(00:45):
loud with the right words at the right moment, which
is actually know is the ultimate skill to human being now, right,
So it's all based on this. Thoughts aren't thinking the
ultimate skill to human being open and closed the control
systems and visual appropriate reception. Right, So yeah, in the
mental game equation, yeah, that's a big one, right, so
(01:05):
figuring that out like what is the mental game.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Out here? The stakes are real. Effective preparation starts with fitness,
but it requires so much more. This show explores the tools, knowledge, resilience,
and skills needed to be ready when it matters the most.
Join me Rich Browning as we apply the decades of
wisdom I've gained through training and competition to hunting in
(01:33):
the back country. This is In Pursuit, brought to you
by Mount Knums in collaboration with Mayhem Hunt Joel Turner. Yeah. Man,
it's been a year in the making, right since Brian backstory.
We'll get into your backstory, but my backstory with you
(01:55):
is if this is the first time we've met it
for some we really even talk. You get in here,
but Brian call, we were shooting at Tack last year
and no less than twenty times. Well it was as
soon as you shot. Yeah, yeah, it didn't start out
well that we didn't have the bow sided in. We'd
been shooting Hoye for years and I got an elite
probably what the week before, and we didn't really sight it.
(02:17):
In first two targets. We're kill shots, but they were
head shots. Oh good. Yes, we got her dialed in
for the second day and it was infinitely better. But yeah, Brian,
Brian was uh, he just kept saying, Man, I gotta
get you a Joel Joel, fix you you know, so
uh here we are. Oh yeah, man, glad to have you.
(02:38):
We just kind of did a little mock shot IQ.
Course it was awesome. Yeah, tell tell everybody who doesn't
know who you are little you know, we can get
into We'll get into the shot IQ stuff of course,
because that was awesome, but like kind of walk us
through who you are and how you got here.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, So it was just, uh, my life has been
all about shooting. And I started shooting a bow when
I was seven, and by the age of eight, I
was fully engulfed in target panic, not knowing exactly what
it was. But I couldn't aim anywhere close to a target,
Like I would hold five feet off of a target
and then just dump my bow and let it go,
you know, shooting a little stick bow at the time,
(03:16):
and then that progressed the compounds and everything else. But
I just loved shooting so much. Like when we were
growing up, my brothers we would all get a BB
gun when we were nine, so I couldn't wait till
I was nine years old. Well, my brother Pete's three
years older than me, so I wore his bb gun
out when I was six, and then I wore my
other brothers out when I was eight. And then when
I got my BB gun, I got a Daisy eight
(03:37):
eighty power line because my dad saw something in me,
I guess, so I wore that thing out. But shooting
air rifles twenty two's was easy. It was money because
there was no requil But man, you put me on
a centerfire rifle and I was a nightmare, really, And
you know, it's just the way it works. It's just
how your brain works. But I didn't know. I was
a little kid, and so you know, life progresses and
(03:59):
through high school and we shoot lots of archery tournaments
and all that, and I was pretty good, but I
was not that good. I mean I wanted, I want
to be really good, and I couldn't aim at a target.
So I took my sights off my bow, so I
started shooting bear bow. You know, I'm like, why would
I have a sight on here if I can't get
anyways to the point where it is funny because a
(04:21):
real good friend of mine is a chiropractor and I
used to go over to his house in like the
sixth grade, and I would go to his house because
he had a giant log pile next to his target.
So he'd have his baiales and this giant deck of logs.
So and we're both fully I mean, he had targabatic
worse that I like. He couldn't even get his compound
to full draw without letting it go. So this is
(04:42):
before release ags, right, So they was just shooting with
fingers and we would both draw our bows back and
aim at the log pile and then we'd swing them
over and shoot the target. It was a nightmare, right,
So college happens. I still shoot my bow. I started
working a bow shop when I was sixteen years old.
Love that, and just there was a few shooters there
(05:05):
that were shooting this thing called a hinge release, right,
they called the backtencher release at the time. And they
would yard on this thing and they'd pull super hard,
but they would shoot these surprise brakes and it was
just fascinating to me. I never could figure it out.
I started shooting one of those releases. I've gone through
the gamut of everything that's available and life progresses. And
(05:25):
then I became a wildlife specialist with USDA Wildlife Services,
where we did a lot of shotgun work and air
rifle work. So I was money right, but you put
me on a coyote contract with a center fire rifle,
and I didn't know how I was going to go.
Then I became a cop, and that's what really had
to push me over the edge as far as and
I got to figure this stuff out. And when I
(05:48):
was in the academy as where I really learned that
I loved instructing. I loved teaching people. I didn't really
know what to teach at the time, but I just
knew I loved being in front of people and instructing.
So in the academy, I actually fudged the system a
little bit because everybody else's shooting a glock. Well, because
I was still a trigger puncher at the time, I
(06:09):
bought a nineteen eleven epistol had a much shorter trigger
stroke on it. So I took top firearms in the academy.
You know, look at me, you know the top firearms.
But the cool thing was is that I started to
figure out how I did it right. And then two
years into my law enforcement career, became a fiarms instructor,
and that's where I really started to see, like, why
(06:30):
is this farms instructor yelling front site, front site, front
site when the front site is not the problem?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Like I'm aiming good, Like I'm aiming where I need
to aim. But then I yanked the trigger and it's
all for not. So are we saying the right things
to the students right? And that's where I really started
to do the research and started to figure things out.
And then one day I talked to recruit through a
shot and I'm like, that worked pretty good. That was
(06:57):
my light bulb moment to where I saw that their
trigger finger was moving in the exact rate of which
I spoke. And then I had them speak to me
and it was completely different. Their speech pattern had crazy
anxiety and all kinds of like oh, keep resident, keep resident,
keep present right. It was crazy listening to them talk, like, man,
(07:18):
I'm getting a view right into their head as to
what's really going on in there. And then I started
to do more research, and then I had a fellow
tell me that what I was doing work, but it
wasn't right, and he was big into kinnesthesiology, martial artist.
He was a smart man. Him and I did not
see eye to eye on much, but he said, what
you're doing works, but it's not right. And I'm like,
(07:40):
I need to know what's right. At this time, I'm
the lead fararm instructor for Washington State, so every police
officer had to come through our team for firearms training.
And he told me that I'm like, well, what's right?
And he's like, you got to take my class. I'm like,
sign me up. So I took his class and Advanced
Concepts of Mode Learning and Performance, Okay, and that's where
I learned things about open and closed the control systems.
(08:03):
But what I also learned is it had never been
put into shooting. And then we learned about neuro linguistic
programming never been put into shooting right, and all these
other things, visual appropriate reception, never been said anything regarding shooting.
So I took those sciences and I kind of packaged
them together into what is now shot IQ. So that's
(08:25):
kind of how it all came to Fruition. And my son, Bodie.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Turner is incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, he's considered one of the greatest archers on the plant.
He's only eighteen years old. He's won numerous world championships.
But he started shooting about at ten and a half
months old. He couldn't even stand up yet. But by
the age of three, I bought him as first compound.
And what do you think I saw when I put
a little index finger trigger. He punched the crap out
of it at three years old. Because that's what we do, right,
(08:53):
that's what we're doing. We time an explosion. If we
can time it, we do. The subconscious will not allow
to cause your body impact as a surprise. So I
saw that, and I've been through a lifetime of that.
I'm like, there's no way I'm allowing my son to
go down the same path that I did. So, but
in archery it's cool because there's mechanical fixes to mental problems.
(09:14):
Like most kids now that don't have enough determination to
override their own central nervous system, which is most kids,
I put them in a resistance activated release because it's
got a safety on it, so it mechanically separates them
from the aim and from their shot activation movement. So
you know when your son really gets into shooting. First thing,
I would do is put them in a resistance release
(09:35):
until he understands this is how we do it, and
we draw back an aim, then we take the safety off,
then we say here I go. Then we just pull
right yep. And of course there's a bit more to
it than that, but not really. And once you do that,
you get them to separate and you don't have to
teach them. It's not like and it's tough for dads
to teach their kids anything because biologically we're not supposed
(09:56):
to teach them. So they're supposed to learn from Uncle Bob.
But the next tribe over right, right, So we always
run into those issues. So I never like sat body
down and said this is how we're going to learn
how to shoot archery. I just let him do his business,
and I would put these little things in cues, right,
these little things. When he was shooting a stick bow'd
have him shooting a clicker right of my counter receptive trigger,
(10:16):
just so he got used to separating from the aim.
That's the main thing. If you can just get people
to separate away from the aim and then learn how
to put their conscious mind into something more important. If
I could just get young hunters and kids to say,
here I go between the aim and the trigger work,
it would be so much more successful.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, that was one of the big I don't know
how much you want to talk about it and not
give away too much, but today one of the big takeaways.
You know, we talk a lot about you know, talking
through things, and usually once you know, when we were talking,
usually the coach is giving the cue and the people
are trying to figure it out. So the participant or whoever,
(10:56):
you know, for us it would be the athlete actively talking.
Way they are connecting their movement to their own words,
to their own internal speak was huge. But the other
piece was you know, for me, I went to the
bow rack and Wayne was awesome, incredible, great, and I've
switched to it thumb since when I was there was
with a finger, but you know, I he did a
(11:20):
great job of equating it for my simple brain of all, right,
how would you approach a bar? How would you do
these things? And so you know I noticed today though
I have all these great cues and self talk until
I get to hear and ready to pull the trigger,
and so I just hadn't put those two together. And
so once this was set, I forgot about this front arm.
(11:41):
You know, we're talking archerie, we're talking about shooting bow.
So you know, my process is level target. Once I'm
on the target, then it was like, all right, find
the trigger and then we're using that what kind of
release it was that we were using today on clicker
on ex clicker, and so it almost like to me,
I think, all right, in a in a rifle, I
find that wall, and then when I find that wall,
(12:03):
then it's a slow pull from there. So then once
I was set up here, I forgot about everything else
up here, and now I'm literally all of my brain, sorry,
covered up a mic is just going to what my thumb?
That's all I'm thinking about, and trying to go as
slow as I can and still fighting against that urge
(12:24):
to just punch right. And so man, it's it's cool
now that I have those things to think about where
you know, before I was like, all right, I'm up,
I've got this. This front side almost is like two
separate things going on. You know, get that front site,
and then when it's it's set, I forget about it now,
and so now I'm like, all right, now I'm just
thinking about the thumb. So now to me, I get
(12:45):
obsessed with stuff. So now that's gonna be like i'm
aa and I do a lot better when like, yeah,
you tell me and then you're watching me, and then
I'm like screw it. Like I'm back and forth with
thinking about what he oh, he's watching. I'mna screw this up.
I'm I'll be obsessed with it for the next months
and I'll figure it out, you know, I'll go to
work on it. And so it's cool to have that now.
And once again, you know we words, right, you have
(13:06):
the words, and you have this process that you go
through and it's the same thing that we do in fitness.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, it's I mean, you're just building this toolbox. Like
like I was talking about earlier, like I don't have
to talk myself through a shot anymore. Boddy doesn't have
to talk to himself through a shot unless we see
a problem. Like we talked a little bit about thoughts
aren't thinking. But that's a huge concept, Like my buddy
Ben May in Australia told me that, and that's from Buddhism.
That's saying thoughts aren't thinking. And I kind of took
(13:35):
it and dissected it a bit like, thoughts are what
you hear, but thoughts have no instruction, Thoughts have no strategy.
Thoughts cannot solve a problem intent, right, So it's thinking
is what you say. Thoughts are what you hear. Thinking
is what you say. It's your voice and it's got
to be the loudest one in the room. So you
(13:55):
can imagine when a big bulls come and you're like,
oh my god, that thing's a giant. Right, Well, that's
a thought that has no instruction, that has no strategy
to it. But you also can't necessarily control that thought
because it's coming in whether you like it or not. Cool,
let it in, But that's the cool thing. Like, that's
why I'm tapping you on the head with an arrow
because you have thoughts of why is this guy tap
(14:15):
me on the head of the arrow that has no instruction,
that has no strategy. So you get reps in getting
loud with the right words at the right moment, which
is actually know is the ultimate skill the human being now, right,
So it's all based on this. Thoughts aren't thinking the
ultimate skill the human being open and closed the control
systems and visual appropriate reception. Right, So yeah, and the
(14:38):
mental game equation. That's a big one, right, So figuring
that out, like what is the mental game? It's understanding where, when,
and how to direct your conscious mind into a specific
task at a specific moment.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Once you have that definition, you have that equation. You
just take whatever problem you have, whatever the problem is,
you plug it into the equation like these steps. Yeah,
after the Rogan podcast, I had a French, the French
Olympic decathlon coach called me and asked me questions like
I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
I don't even know what are the events of the cathlon?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, exactly, Like I didn't know what disciplines were in there.
I didn't even know there was ten of them, hence
the name.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So he said, I go, coach, what is the biggest
problem that the kathlon? Like, I have no idea. He's like,
I'll tell you right now. It's with my long jumpers.
I'm like, okay, he says, as they're running down the lane,
right before they put their foot on the launch board,
they put their shoulders back involuntarily and it kills the
momentum of the jump. Right, I'm like, okay, who knew?
(15:37):
But I'm like, okay, let's plug it. Into the mental
game equation, I said, coach, where do you want their
conscious mind? He said, I wanted in the longest jump possible.
He said, that's not the problem. The problem is in
the shoulders, right, So the ware of the mental game
equation is in the shoulders and keeping them forward. When
do you need it there, specifically right before they put
their foot on the launch board. How do you put
(15:59):
it there? The how of the mental game equation is
always speech. You do it all the time with all
these specific movements that you do in your in your workouts,
like you did it with me today, And but you
got to get your people talking out loud because then you,
as the coach, you can see exactly where they're putting
their conscious mind and when they're putting it there, and
that's what you're manipulating it as a coach.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
It's so uncomfortable, Yeah, talking about what you're like those steps, Yeah,
you know, but it is so true because then you're
actually you know, the thinking is action and so honestly
it's something that we can use in coaching, and what
we do is you know, I told you today and
it makes sense after you know, we were doing some
overhead pressing you've got a little bit of mobility issue.
(16:44):
But also, once I said something, all you did was
those elbows forward a little bit just to get in
that better driving position, tuck that chin, better bar path.
And so now you would say that instead of just
me every time you have to, you'd have to give
me the right words and the right moments. But then
once you do that, make them do You gotta make
the person do that right, and then you can as
(17:06):
the coach, you're seeing exactly what's going on. But I
told you I do that with the kids. I coach
coach slitch, and you know, I learned from another guy
coach ball game, and he's a magician with kids. That's
the big thing. You have them say triangle, alligator, vacuum,
and they just do it, you know, And so then
you just repetition. Repetition makes so much it won't take
(17:28):
We forget as adults.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah right, I mean, like I said, we're the master
of the unknown obvious. It's right there in front of us.
We do it all the time. But because we didn't
realize that the words were the skill, we skip over it,
like we jump right over that. Well, I'm getting to
do the triangle alligator vacuum. But you just do it,
but they don't say it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Say it.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And when you do that, when you have them say it,
you'll find it way less reps to it until they
get it, they'll get it way faster, way quicker.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Man, it makes so much sense and it's right there
in front of you and you don't even think about
you know, for years I've said it before. I I've
in the last probably seven eight years, gotten infinitely infinitely
better at coaching because I've seen so many more people.
When it was just me trying to tell people what
I do, I don't think about it as much. I'm like,
all right, walk up to the bar, grab it and go.
(18:18):
I don't you know, there's not this huge, long kind
of process. But now seeing which you probably see a
ton of people and see it do seem to do
it the wrong way, And now that you've attached words
to it, it helps. But I mean it can transfer
over into so many different things.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
And like when I was listened to Steve Ranella on
one of his podcasts, he talked about like one of
the first shots that he was successful with a bow
because when you watch him shoot right now, like he
punches a trigger right, and not a bad thing. He
kills lots of stuff, but he could be better if
he wanted to be. But when he talked about this
(18:52):
one shot and his grandpa taught him to say, raise
the elbow right at a certain in his shot. And
I don't even know if Steve realizes this, but he
said it that one time because he talked about this
shot where he remembered saying that during his shot, and
he was successful in that shot. But I don't know
if he still says it right. Those words that he
(19:15):
got from his grandpa were the right words at the
right moment, right. His grandpa gave him that gift, and
I hope that he's still uses it well. I've always
wanted to explain that to him, like Steve, you did
it this one time, this is how you did it.
And that's what we find is really good shooters, really
good athletes, and whatever sport they are in, they don't
(19:36):
realize how they do what they do. They don't realize
that it's the speaking, it's the words that got them
to do the action. That's the skill. The action is
not necessarily the skill. That's the physical part of it.
But understanding how you do it, but we don't ask
that question. You know, we look at like if you
look at a famous archer, Let's say, you go, oh man,
(19:58):
what bow was he shooting? He he shooting? What release
is he shooting? How's he staying? All these things? I
want to know what he is saying. And if you
ask somebody what they're thinking, they'll usually only give you
their thoughts.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
The way you're saying things.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So very few of us ever asked that athlete, what
do you say? I will like that one guy is
and that's that's actually the skill, right, That is the
skill we're trying to get to. Right, what do you
say right before you do X?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Right?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
And once we get people to realize that, they take
a different approach, Like you're going to approach your shooting way,
You're going to approach your workouts differently. You're going to
approach your shooting during your workouts differently, Right, Like what
do I have to do in my workout to force
myself to get super loud in my shot? I mean,
that's so powerful, powerful.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
That's working out. One of the first things you said
this morning was that it would be interesting for you
just to see how we handled it. Rich being an athlete.
What what were you thinking there? And then were you
surprised at all with how today went?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I was surprised on I shouldn't say surprised, because you're
obviously with what you've done in your life and what
all of you have done with your lives. You're very determined,
right so, and that's the first ingredient. But we never knew.
Like I used to say, I can't teach you determination,
but I can teach you how to find it. Yeah,
now I know how to teach it because I know
(21:31):
the determination is now in the words you just spoke
very quickly in the signature test. Right, you only do
it twice, Josh, you only to do it twice? That
is that's very rare. We don't like to lose, yeah right, yeah,
but so you took that you don't like to lose
your life. Oh oh, this is like you had it
on your first one. Really, I just made you do
(21:52):
it again. So right, you are welcome, But actually one
line was off.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, my personal sucked.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So that's what it is, though, is really I wasn't
I wouldn't say surprised. What I saw in your shooting
is what I expected. But once you get the solution.
I knew that you'd get it pretty quickly, right, just
because of what I saw in the signature test. And
you've been able to do that so quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I'm all for the next. Like right now I'm doing
it on the back seam of this chair. Is just
like trying to go as slow as I can pulling
into this back seam of this chair. It's going to
be an obsession for the next.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
And I think the handshake demonstration yeah helped.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, because you know, obviously we're we're talking about
this release and you get to a point where you
take the tension out and then from there, now I
can just like I can feel it, see it like
I can, you know, I'm on the back of this
chair just doing it. I also have a touch of
add so my brain goes to all those different spaces.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So but you'll just use things differently. The approach is
now changed.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
So now what you're doing when you hunt, you're actually
using that animal for concentration practice.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
That's that's why you know, does are cool for meat,
but they don't they don't make you get as loud
as bucks. That's why people say, man, I can smoke
dose all day long, but you put a big bucket
from it and I just fall apart. That's because they
talk on the does or with the doe. Their thoughts
are not as loud, so they don't have to override it.
(23:23):
They don't have to get their thinking as loud. But
as soon as you put one hundred and eighty inches
of anler in front of on a white tailed bucket're like,
oh my god, I'm gonna be a hero.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Right that is?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
That's all thoughts man, Let's start talking with the right
words in the right moments.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I'm interested to see how now.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
One of the things I asked Rich a while back
is just that did he think like the high stress
moments he's been in high stress as far as competing
helped him in high stress moments, honey? And he said yes,
But would you say no because he wasn't necessarily talking
to himself.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Anytime you can inoculate yourself from stress is good, but
if you don't realize how you did it, it's not
as good as it could be.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I'm sure putting ourselves in stressful situations is awesome. But
let's say one time you were successful and you're like yeah, man,
I freaking did it. I don't know, and then the
next time you didn't do it, like, oh man, what
was it? And you know, talking to the Philadelphia Phillies
the pitching team, like, if you don't know how you
do what you do, you're you're a victim of good
days and bad days. And if you don't know the difference,
(24:31):
then you're just yeah, you're just on this emotional roller
coaster constantly. Like I want you to have those successes,
have those failures and know the difference. The difference is
you stopped talking right or you do or you weren't
loud enough. And that's all we've done today, is we've
put words to how you do what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And that you know, there has to be a point
too that it just becomes second nature. You are talking,
but you're not even thinking those thoughts because you've done
that repetition so many times. Does that happen to you?
I think about that with like a clean or a
snatch or any like the high complex movements for us,
or I know when I do it bad, when a
(25:12):
bar comes out or a bar you know the bar
path is is not good? Does that well that eventually.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Well one of the things in your workouts is all
of your movements are open loop. When you teach them,
you're teaching them closed loop. You're teaching them slow enough
that people can get the feedback and you know all
the stuff that you're doing. But then the natural path
of adult learning is you have the cognitive stage of
learning where you do most of your self instruction. Then
(25:42):
you practice with the goal of becoming automatic. So in
the past when you would shoot during your workouts, you're
shooting for results on the target. Right, Oh yeah, stricken
smoked it. And then you go back to working on
and I smoked it, but you couldn't couldn't be because
you're still working the trigger open loop. You were not
treating that rep as you could. Right now you're like,
(26:07):
of course you're gonna smoke it. Why wouldn't you because
you've aimed in the middle and this is the goal
now is just jorking through that trigger so slow, Like
that's why I shoot on one foot like during during
the Vegas shoot and the practice ends, like you get
two practice ends of two minutes and you can shoot
as many arrows as you want, like you know in
(26:28):
the actual competition is three arrows for two minutes indoor.
But in these practice sessions you'll see me standing on
the line shooting on one foot, and people like, Turner,
what are you doing? I'm like, well, here's the deal.
I know that on my first scoring ends at Vegas
or big tournaments, I shake more than normal. Right, And
if I go up there and I shoot on one
(26:48):
foot in my practice ends and I replicate that amount
of shake, I'm like, cool. I get reps and letting
go of the aim, right, whereas everybody else is just
trying to shoot x's in their practices. To make sure
everything's right. Right, you've got to be able to step
away from the shake, the aim. Those are all just
(27:09):
problems that increase the volume of thoughts. So I'm getting
reps and increasing the volume of my thinking. Right. So,
now you're using your workouts in that same way. Of course,
you're going to hit the middle. Why wouldn't you? Right, So,
and if you don't hit the middle, but you still
broke a clean shot, well that is an absolute win.
(27:29):
Maybe not for the arrow, but it's a win for
what you were trying to accomplish.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Right, that ultimate skill like this the old brains brain.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Well, and then you would say mental toughness. Like for us,
we say we do hard things and that actually makes
us mentally tough for the next thing. But you would
say you're mentally tough when you can talk to yourself
loud enough.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
All you're doing is you're creating situations where if you're
not loud enough, you will fail.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Okay, I have a great question for you. Hit me,
because this is what people Internet people say. One of
the things we do like to do is like shoot,
I say, under fatigue, but everybody's under fatigues different. So
like do like a zone two, get your heart rate
sixty seventy percent, and maybe do a shot or two
from there. Some people say it's so crazy, that's the
(28:22):
dumbest thing to do.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
What would you.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Say, I'd say it's beautiful, of course, hell ya right,
because you have to get loud. That's what you're doing.
You're forcing yourself because when you're fatigued, you have thoughts
of oh my god, my breathing, I can't breathe, Oh
my gosh, there's no way I can do this. Those
are all thoughts, man, and they're coming whether.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You like it or not.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Let them in.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, And the truth is if you're out counting.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Like those thoughts. You can't there's so much you can't get.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
We've hiked two miles literally up hills and had to
shoot almost right, Yeah, as soon as we got there,
had to shoot, you know what I mean. So like
there's to me, that's the best thing to put yourself
into that such.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
All you're doing is you're manually increasing the volume of thoughts.
When you work out, when you stand on one foot,
you're manually increasing the volume of thoughts so that you
get reps and increasing the volume of your thinking.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
I hope everybody listens to this.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I want to go shoot on that BOSU ball out
there too.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh that's rad. Yeah, it's all good anything you can do.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
But we have this uh I don't know. Yeah, you
draw that thing and it starts doing this right here.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
It's a it must stand on the top of it when.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You are one foot doing some like crane and stuff.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So what you guys are doing is spot on, and
I wish more people would do that. But I think
that it's starting to get out there. Like like we said,
if somebody puts a shot on the internet and they
punch a trigger, like they are judged.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Everybody finds it. It's like me when I did a
hunt like years ago, not years ago. Still happens hunting posts.
Everybody finds it. Like people that don't even follow me
unfollow you know whatever, but the same sing with a
punch of trigger man man. Everybody loves to tell you
they get on it.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah, a lot of really good archers out there, a
lot of really.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Good Internet archers. Internet archers. You get, you get much Internet? Yeah, lots.
You like it too, huh yeah, yeah, I enjoyed it.
At this point. My wife gets a little bit down
on it, and I'm just like, let it come.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, it's uh. You know when Dan Staton we used
to do that. We still do the Elk Shape camp
and and I was pretty hard on people in that
first few arrows, right, And I did that for a
purpose to get them to increase. I mean, I'm talking
to him, I'm asking them, you know, all kinds of questions,
and I'm razing them. And and he put that first
(30:41):
video out of me doing that. Beople like who is
this guy? He's a major a hole and stuff, and
so much so that Dan had to put out another
video explain I'm just I'm just increasing the volume of
their thoughts. Yeah, that's all I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
I think it's great because when that animal walks out.
I mean I've had thoughts of like, you know, when
it walks out and it's just not happening and not
turning and doing what you need it to do, and
you're just like, I want this to end at some point,
Like I don't care if it's an arrow fired or something.
But you're like in this stuck in this lock step.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
People get to the point where they they hope it
doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, because you don't want to fail.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, you don't hope it does. Oh good that elk
went the other way, right man.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I used to be that.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I mean, it took me thirteen years to kill a
bull elk with my bow. I'm a two time world
out calling champion. I can call these things in like
a chicken on a string, but I couldn't hit them
come up with us. Yeah, I mean, thirteen years of failure.
But I loved it so much. But I was that guy.
I'm like, oh man, oh good he didn't come in.
(31:42):
I didn't have to fail again. Thirteen years of that.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Right Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And then now that I have control. I'm like, come on,
bring it on. Man.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I love it because it's just the ultimate test that
you're uh yeah, well, you know we've talked a couple
of times. I feel like hunting is for me. You know,
it was such an easy transition from competing to elk hunting.
Elk hunting is kind of my passion. Well, definitely my passion.
It's the ultimate competition, you know, like it's the first
competition that was ever on earth. Really, what's your what's
(32:13):
your elk? Your favorite?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Absolutely? I like collars, like everybody else is like, man,
I stock him. I you know, I don't stand. I'm like,
I don't do any of that. I call them. Yeah,
that's the experience that I want. I've killed enough bulls
now that you know I've I can feel a freezer.
But I want to call bulls and that's the experience
that I am hunting, right. I want to have that
as that experience as many times as possible until I
(32:35):
am dead.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
We're at the like stage of we just want experiences,
you know. Sure, you know we we talked last time too.
I couldn't tell you what a three hundred inch bull
looks like if he's legal. I like people. I've had
to be talked out of animals at times because I'm
in that phase. You know, I just enjoy it, man,
I love being out there. It's just kind of my
(32:56):
it's where I'm at. Everybody's like, if you could hunt
anything anywhere, I'm like, September Oak, you know for sure,
I don't care where.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, And so on that note, right, you've got your
your CrossFit competitions, you've got hunting. Those are all primal skills. That's,
in my opinion, what we're supposed to be doing. And
I saw that as a cop where I didn't have
to go to I don't think I ever went to
a family that hunted together for domestic violence or anything, right,
(33:24):
Like that just wasn't part of the equation. And on
that note, it's like silent places are special, and that's
what I find. Like I've dealt with lots of very
wealthy people now, and it seems like they don't have
the silent places, right, whether that's to get close to
(33:45):
God or just be quiet for a minute or whatever
it is. Right, Like you get on a mountaintop in
September and just just don't talk for a second, just
like take it all in and it's amazing. That's one
of the things about Montana where I live in Montana,
of like there's places out there where you can just
stop moving and you can't hear it.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I never understand. I never understood that, and you just stop. Yeah,
You're sitting there one morning and it was so quiet
that it was loud, you know, like it's just it
blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, it's crazy. Like I was. I was wolf hunting
two years ago. Yeah, and I well, we had had
some kill somewhere, cattle, but we were I was laying
there and it was cold, its five degrees and it
was dark, and I'm laying there and it's so quiet
(34:43):
that I can hear the snowflakes hitting my face. It
was it was wild man, so good. But that's you know,
people don't have those places. And if you don't have
those places, man, you don't realize how loud your thoughts are.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
You know. Yeah, yeah, because those the thoughts will be
loud when it's boy even more quiet or man, when
even when it's loud, when you got that screaming bowl, Yeah,
that's when they're the loudest, huh, or you're hearing those
footsteps if you're close enough to hear footsteps, yeah, or
Antler's breaking things. Oh yeah, it's cool. It's awesome and
and it's hard to tell people how awesome that is
(35:19):
until they experience it, you know, Man, Yeah, it just
makes me want what month is it now? It's June? June,
not close. I just got off an Axis hunt and
it was it was. It moved pretty close to Elk.
It was awesome. It was a great time in Texas.
But man, I just I'm ready for September. What do
you what? What hunts do you have planned this year? Oh?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Man, I've got how many you calling versus how many
are you hunting? Let's see, I'll be calling for body first.
He's got a good Elk tag in Montana. I've got
a good Elk tag in Montana. But I'll be calling
for him, and I'm calling for another family, and then
I'm calling in Colorado and I'll be able to hunt
down there as well. Then back to Montana ago.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Okayahs, So you know you two things I want to
talk about. Well, one is you said you called in
how many two years ago? So fifty four two years
ago and thirty eight thirty I don't know if I've
ever seen fifty four bull elk and then thirty eight
last year. That's insane, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah, to haunt some amazing places, But do.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
You want to give away those like two things you
told me, like the two Tucher calls? Yeah, let's go
because that was interesting.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So I learned how to elk call from being a cop,
like I learned how to make all I've been calling
elk since I was twelve years old. That's when my
dad bought me my first mouth read. And lucky for me,
I started out right nobody to teach me. I just
was able to make sounds with it. And then those
sounds got pretty good and I figured some stuff out.
But when I became a cop, like I became a
(36:51):
cop in two thousand and one, I won the World
Championships in two thousand and eight and in twenty ten,
So I could make all the sounds, but I hadn't
put it all together yet because I was doing the
same stuff that I was hearing other bugling with chuckling,
cow calling, you know, you challenge the bull or you
cow call and all this stuff, and I'm like, hmm,
(37:12):
this isn't how it works in real life, Like, this
isn't how humans behave. So I listened to a CD
one time Sounds by the Elk from Elk Nat Paul
Madell and he's a fantastic wealth of knowledge on elk calling.
But I listened to CD and he's got this is
a bull calling cows And it had all these bulls
bugling doing this bugle. I'm like, none of those are chuckling.
(37:36):
This is strange. There was no chuckles in any of those,
so I'm like, hmm. So then i started watching all
this footage of elk. I'm like, when these bulls are
in their cows, they don't chuckle. That's when they're talking
to their cows, they don't chuckle. So I'm thinking, okay,
but when you hear another bull bugle in the background
or something, then that bull will bugle with a chuckle.
(37:57):
So we know that a bull bugling with a chuck
is a multiple communication. And I'm thinking, I mean, I've
been to hundreds of bar fights, right, and as a cop,
and like, what's the fight over? Oh he's talking to
my girl, right, I'm like ding ding ding ding, Okay,
this is I mean, this is how you would get
in a fight. Ye, Like, you don't just walking if
(38:18):
you want to get in a fight with the dude,
you don't walk in a bar and insult the dude.
You insult his female, his female, right, his significant other,
whatever that may be. You talk to them and only them.
You don't even talk to him like you imagine, like, hey, baby,
you want to go to make a calf, right, and
he's like, hey, dude, you're talking to my girl. That's
him bugling back at you. And you just give him
(38:40):
the hand and you keep talking to her. He's going
to become so enraged that he just loses his mind
and he's going to punch you. Right, Well, that's what
we're seeking in the Elk Woods. So why are we
going into the bar and talking to the dude? Why
are we going in and bugling and chucklin Because yeah,
you'll get in a fight every now and again that way.
But it's all based on the attitude of the recipient
(39:01):
of that call. Right, if you deal with his significant other,
it's instinctive. Right now, he has to remove you from
the bar because he wants to make a calf with
that cow every single year, right, So that's just the
way it works, So I quit bugling with chuckling. Now,
when a bull has cows, I just slide in tight
on the cows. I try to get within one hundred
(39:23):
yards of them. Sixties better right, and you just bugle, short, raspy,
no chuckles is the key. Don't chuckle because then he
will talk back to you. You don't talk to him.
If he starts raking a tree to display, you just
talk right over the top of him to his ladies.
Just do that bull calling cow's bugle again, short, raspy,
(39:45):
no chuckles, and he will come in and try to
kill you. There's no hang up spot. That's the beautiful
part about it. There's no suspicion. There's no hang up spots.
They get all puffed up and they just walk in
real slow like a bull moose. They all do it right.
So that's one spectrum if he's got cows that we're
gonna use. The other spectrum is everybody wants a cow call. Well,
(40:09):
when was the last time that a group of females
human females got together and talk nicely about another female
that wants to procreate with the man that they've chosen
as a group. That's never happened, right, So when you
get close to cows and you cow call, they will
not allow the bull to go play with the hussy
and the bushes. So you no cow calls, keep it
(40:34):
on the calf spectrum, because then you dive into the
instincts again. When you stay on the calf spectrum, you're
sexually neutral. Now, you're not a sexual threat to these
cows anymore. So, Like, if we're sitting here having this
podcast and an adult female starts screaming outside, we're gonna
move our location. We're gonna look at the door like
peak out, like, what the heck's going on out there?
(40:55):
But if it's a it's suspicion. That's where you get
the hang up spots on these bulls. They hung they
hang up seventy eighty yards away. But when you calf call,
like if there's a kid, if there's a kid hurt
out there, we're all running out there, willy nilly, inhibitions
thrown to the wind. We don't care, right, we're gonna
help that infant. Well, bulls just happen to be pedophiles
(41:16):
as well. They don't care how old.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
The calf is.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Right, So you've got the maternal instincts of the female,
you've got the sexual drive of the male, and it's
just like a free for all. So when you learn
that calf distress call, and get emotional with it, even
to the point where if you've got to use a
predator call, do that. If you can't use a mouth
rade very well, but get emotion in there. And if
(41:40):
there are cows there that you didn't know about, like,
if you knew about them, then you'd use the bull
calling cow's miigel. But if sometimes you don't know that
there's cows there, they come right in and the bulls
are right on their tail. But if that bull doesn't
have cows, he will he comes in just willy nilly.
They come in super close. There's no hang up spot.
You don't have have to you know, you don't have
(42:01):
to move locations. He's coming right to you. And you
can also do almost inaudible calf sounds when he's close.
A lot of times the bull will mew to you
and it sounds hideous, really oh my ah, all right,
And you know if you hear this real raspy, deep mew,
he's mewing to the calf. He is fully committed to
(42:22):
the relationship with that calf. At that point, they will
like the first time you do a calf's a distressed calf,
they will usually do a bull calling cow's bugle, So
they'll bugle, short, raspy, no chuckles. They will not chuckle
when there's when you do a calf sound, unless every
now and again they'll do a bull check what I
call a bull check that they'll check to see if
you have a bull with you, So they'll bugle with
(42:44):
kind of this wimpy chuckle and if they don't hear anything,
if you just keep your calf call going, that's when they'll.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
It's the exact situation that happened last year. I know, yeah,
remember that bull just kind of did.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
I thought you were going to bring up the moment I.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Was not going to bring up.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
So that's what happens. They'll bull check you, and then
you stick with the calf sounds and then they just
they come right and they'll start muant.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Situation as we call I'm just messing around with my
I'm trying to learn my cow cal and I probably
did a crappy little women higher pitch than no, and
so we hear it. We're like, oh, sweet. So we
start you going at him, can't get him to come in.
We try to move in on him. He keep he
would answer, but he was going away. Noah with born
(43:31):
and raised like calf call rake right in yep.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And you probably didn't even need to do the raking
portion of it, because raking is a display.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I mean you.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
I don't introduce a bull into the situation unless I
have to write, and when I do, the bull is
never the subject of my calling. Like I don't talk
to him at all either. I'm a distressed calf and
I want to know where everybody's at. And that's a
beautiful thing about that distressed calf sound is it doesn't
drive elk away. So use it to sound check when
you go over that next ridge, sound check that canyon.
(44:04):
If nothing calls back to you or breaks a branch
or moves, there's nothing there. That's how I treat it.
Nothing there, Move on right, and I'll go to the
next train feature. Because bugles and calf calls don't go
over train features. So when you get to that next
train feature, sound check it nothing there? Cool? Sound check
it Oh a cow? Muwe back to me? Now I
know he's got cows. Now I'm gonna hunt the cows.
(44:27):
Goull calling cow's bugle.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
If a bull bugles back to me, I'm gonna check
him like okay, when he bugles again. If he has moved,
he doesn't have cows. If he has not moved, he
has cows. So I treat it as such. Right, So
it's super simple. You only need to really know two sounds.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
Never focus on your target.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Right, bull calling cows bugle and calf distress and you're
calling odds will skyrocket?
Speaker 2 (44:58):
You heard you heard it? There? See what else you got?
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Really kind of for both of you. Just would you agree, disagree,
or even talk about just how if it does. Does
controlled shooting complement explosive fitness, because that's what some people say,
you know, crossfits explosive fitness. So do those two compliment
each other in any way?
Speaker 1 (45:26):
I would say yes, because you're practicing getting loud in
your head, right, you can use this is the ultimate
skill of the human being. It's how we literally do everything.
So if you're using it for fitness, cool, Just realize
that most of those movements are open loop. But take
that same loudness, that same speech to this very minute
(45:49):
movement in the trigger press. Just take that and focus
it in to this movement that's so slow you could
stop it, like every now and again, move a barbell
so slow that you could stop, right, you could do
this everywhere.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
And use everyone actually slow And yeah, so that's great.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Right, And so just realize how you're doing what you're
doing and then put it into everything in your life.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
And it just works sense. Yeah, yeah, I would say, yes,
there's so many parallels. There's so many things you can
flip flop. I will say, the one piece that is
missing is that just single finger kind of dexterity type thing.
But yeah, I mean, we are, you know, you are
(46:37):
switching grips. You are, you know, But there's just the
one thing that I will have to work on a
ton of. But I also, I mean, I guess when
I'm jumping rope, at times I'll move my thumbs around
or like try to change different things. But I'll now
think about those things more and attach, you know, just
when I'm doing them that I notice that I am
thinking of those little things, like little things that I
(46:59):
don't you know, there are more thoughts than thinking to
your the way you say it. But I think there's Yeah,
there's so many parallels. There's you know what we were
when I was showing him earlier with that bamboo bar
and just how much it moves, Like, the more you could,
you know, get all those muscles to kind of work
and fire in the kinesthetic awareness, appropriate reception, whatever, interchangeable. Yeah,
(47:23):
Like there is so many parallels to archery to other
types of shooting that why would we not train and
why would we not create balance across different muscle groups
to where you know, yes, you can draw a heavier bow,
you can do certain things, you can have more control
of those those motor patterns.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah, it's just understanding. Again, I know I sound like
a broken record. I'd say it, man, Now, it's how
do you do it? Right? And again when you are
the athlete, when you if you don't know how you
do it, your skills are gonna die with you.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Yeah, right, even more of just like the actual movement
I would say, probably doesn't happen with you as much.
But just like when you're shooting that you're putting your
concentration somewhere else, right, so eliminate the target. Whereas a
lot of times maybe you're hurting so bad if you
your thoughts are loud enough you then you stop concentrating
(48:20):
on that and you can maybe even go a little further.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Your mind stops way before your body does, right, I
mean that's what you guys are doing that. Well, we
need one more rep How are you going to get it?
The only way you can get it is by getting loud,
and a lot of people don't know what it means
to get loud. So that's where you know, some of
the online courses that I do, the mind IQ course,
we teach you how to get loud in your head.
Like it's pretty it's not difficult, but if you don't
(48:44):
ever practice it, practice it's it's we know now that
it's the skill, and we're all chasing so we're everything
that we're doing and working out or shooting bows or
whatever you do in your life, right, use it words,
use it to strengthen that skill.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Man. It's it's you know, so basic as simple, but
also pretty profound if you think about it. We just
don't you just do it right, you know, and especially
with what to connect it back to what we do.
And I've done it for so long, and I you
know I said it earlier, but I just never thought
about it. It was just well I thought about it,
but I never really like really broke it down and
(49:26):
put those things into words.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
It's when you're you know, when you're the athlete. If
you don't know, okay, you don't know, but if you
if you're really good at it, but then you're gonna
have to teach it.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Sometimes you're going to get old and you can't do
it right.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
And you're gonna have to coach it sometime. And that's where,
you know, don't let your skills die with you. And
that's when we do it where good coaches do it
this way, but maybe they don't realize it, and maybe
they're not having their students do the talking form right.
We got it as coaches. We give them the right
words in the right moments. But then we got to
hand it all off and let them do it so
(50:01):
we can see what did they actually get out of
what I.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Just told them? Yeah, make them do it, Like are
they actually paying attention? Are they actually taking away what
I want them to?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Where are they putting their conscious mind? And when are
they putting it there? And because you know where to
put it and when to put it there, you're like, oh,
I need you to say it a little sooner, Like
as soon as you start lifting, as soon as you
start pressing, chin right, you gotta say chin right, elbows, chin,
whatever it may be. Right. So, and you're you're coaching then,
(50:30):
and people like, well.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
What do I say? I don't know what to say?
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Just talk like you're teaching. If you talk like you're teaching,
you'll never be searching for words, and like, really, how
do you talk somebody through something? And people like I
draw back an aim, then I address a trigger and
here I go, and then squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. Well there's
a bunch of little speech in there.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
There's need to keep freaking squeezing. I wish this stupid
thing would go off, or you're ever going to go off?
Is they're going to go there?
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Who are you talking to?
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Right?
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Is this thing ever gonna go off? You're talking to
a piece of metal. Are you not talking to your
muscles anymore? You gotta talk to your muscles. But if
you didn't talk out loud, you don't know what you're saying.
And when you have people talk out loud, you instantly
cut through the thoughts like nobody's gonna draw back.
Speaker 4 (51:18):
Okay, I'm drawing back and aiming. Okay, I got my
pin in the middle. Okay, I'm putting my thumb on
the button.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Got that here?
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I go.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Man, I hope I don't miss.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
They're never gonna say that out loud. Yes, they just
they had that thought. You can't control thoughts. But because
they're not gonna say that out loud, that's why the
commentary shooting is so important. It cuts through all the
crap and you just say what you need.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
To say because you're trying to say it right. Makes sense? Yeah, man,
so simple yet so profound. Once again, what else you
got anything else on there?
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Not much? I was the last thingk just lighter note.
Just you did train today?
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:59):
How'd that go?
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It was awesome. I learned a lot about my I
was nervous, like I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Who you were.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
I'm sorry, and I love that I looked you.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
I'm like, holy smokes man. I haven't done a CrossFit
workout since I left the SWAT team. I'm like, oh man,
that was three years ago. So at home, I've been
doing some stuff. Yeah, a little bit of prep work,
and I'm thinking, man, this guy's gonna just absolutely crush me,
and you certainly could have. Thank you for not absolutely
crushing me. But I learned a lot about like how
(52:30):
weak my left shoulder is, Like I've always had movement problems.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
That necessarily weak. You're just weak in certain ranges of me.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Yeah, and man, that was an eye opener. Like you
had me try to lift an eighteen pound kettlebell upside down,
upside down and I could like get it to right here.
I'm like, I'm trying to get loud in my head,
and I'm like, I got it going anywhere, Like it
didn't matter how loud I got, I couldn't go anymore.
And so all the exercise we did were very eye open.
(53:01):
Thank you for working out with me, Bird, it was awesome.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
We did a ton of just to give people well
you can see it on the accompanying video. We did
a ton of shoulder stuff just because you'd been, you know,
talking about how your shoulder had been bugging you. I've
had shoulder issues. I've switched to left handed because of
those shoulder issues, and so I've been there, done that,
and uh, Bird has some shoulder issues, but didn't even
jump in we'll fix that. Sorry.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
It was working.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah, sure, but did a great job in what's lucky
for you. You know, if this was fifteen years ago,
we would have just like we're just gonna We're just
gonna go in and we're gonna smash each other. Like yeah,
you know, you gotta like there's like a badge of
honor of we got to show people how hard this
is and how awesome it is. And over the years,
probably like you have, yeah, you've learned if you scare
(53:44):
people away, it's.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Not And that's where I've been scared away from it
because like on the SWAT team, we had all these
CrossFit dudes and I was never that guy and we
do this CrossFit workout and I couldn't walk for like
three days, and like this, man, I gotta be able
to like you still the next day.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I'll get There are going to be some some days.
If you get into it, you are going to have
some of those days and they're going to happen. These
were like.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Once a month. Yeah, I rush your face and then
I'm like, man, I don't want I hate this, but
today was like functional and learned a lot and it
was awesome and I you know, I'm going to go
home and I'm gonna get the equipment that I need,
which is not a lot, and I need to get
this shoulder fixed fixed up. I don't want to do surgery.
I just want to get it better, like I've been
(54:29):
living with it. I heard it in twenty nineteen. Cool
thing was I heard it packing out a giant bowl,
which was cool, but it wasn't some whimp story. Yeah
so but yeah, man, I really appreciate it. It was awesome.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, no, you did great, And you know that's what
we want to, like, meet people where they're at in
the fitness. I wanted you to get a similar stimulus.
Like the workout we did was just as hard as
it was for me and Ben as it was for
you guys. So that's the whole point, all right, if
somebody's to walk like, first of all, shot iq you
courses and yeah iq.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Dot com so I've got online courses in archery, rifle, pistol,
and then the mind iq courses for all other sports.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
All right, one takeaway that you want everybody listening, what
do you got?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
The one thing is talk yourself through a shot out loud.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
And record it, record it. I hate hearing my voice.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Yeah, people hate hearing themselves. Whatever. It's public speaking, it's
public humilation, it's the this is the greatest fear of
the human being. But when you talk out loud, you go,
oh and record it so you can play it back.
And because now, I mean when they I've done enough
of these podcasts talking about this stuff, and the people like, oh,
I'm not talking anymore, or I never talked, or I'm
(55:49):
I'm thinking about the game. I'm talking about the game.
Like I had a guy the other day, okay, draw back.
Speaker 4 (55:54):
An aaim, got it, I'm addressing the trigger here, I
go game aim.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
And you're still talking about the aim, and then he
punched the trigger. I'm like, who are you talking to?
Speaker 2 (56:05):
Right?
Speaker 1 (56:05):
What are you talking to? So just get out there,
even if you don't know anything about shot IQ, just
how do you talk yourself through it? Because just doing
that it will override your thoughts and it will set
you on the path.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
So cool. Yeah, my big takeaway was I've just had
so much emphasis on the front side of the shot
that i just forget about the backside, right, you know,
you think punch or just hit the trigger, I'm on
the target whatever, And so for me, the big takeaway was.
The emphasis goes from once that set, you forget about
that front side, and then it's almost like you cut
your body in half and I'm like, all right, I'm
(56:42):
just thinking about what's going on back here.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Yeah, you subcon allow your subconscious to handle the aiming
for you. Never let it handle the trigger work for you.
And that's been a big thing in archery instruction for
a long time, like just you know, shoot so many
times and groove it into the subconscious and then in
high stress, the subconscios take care are you. Of course
it will, but it's also going to punch the trigger. Right,
but it's kept you alive for this long. But just
(57:06):
delegate it, right, Allow it to do the work that
it's really good at. Don't allow it to do the
work that it's perfect at.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
It.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
Hey, don't let it take this stuff from you.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Sweet awesome man. Well, I appreciate you coming out. It
was awesome. You have to come back and hang out anytime.
Appreciate it and hunt with us and actually teach us
what to do the right way. I'll call you. I'm in.
We've got some fox a spot that you need. More
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