April 9, 2025 • 36 mins
On this week's In Service Of Canadian superstar Alessia Cara joins co-hosts Steve Baltin and Sage Bava to discuss her new album, finding her voice through music, her favorite NBA players, working with John Mayer and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back to In Service Up, where we explore the
heart behind the art, the calling behind the craft, and
the deeper why behind the work that moves us. Each week,
we sit down with artist, thinkers, and culture creators who
are redefining what it means to live and create with intention. Today,
we're joined by Grammy winning singer songwriter Alysia Karra, whose
latest album Love and Hyperbole is an incredible exploration of contradiction, vulnerability,
(00:28):
and self realization. Known for her raw honesty and poetic lyricism,
Alysia opens up about the emotional architecture of the record,
how loved his stories, clarifies, exaggerates, and teaches. We dive
into the stories behind the songs, the evolution of her sound,
her synthesia, and the delicate art of being both the
narrator and the subject in her own life.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you so much, Lessie for being here today. And
before we came on, we were.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Just talking about your travel adventures and because your answer
was so damn good, tell us again who you want
to do a buddy movie with your remake of planes,
trains and automobiles. It's you traverse from what Victorias saying,
San Francisco, Chicago to Buffalo and then drove to Toronto.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yes, crazy journey. Okay, well, if we are moving away
from the original cast, love Steve Martin. But if we're
moving away from original cast, I would say my dream
duo would be Jim Carrey and Jack Black. Those are
like my comedy legends. I love them.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
That is a good deal.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And wait now I have to ask you before we
come on to other stuff, and before I let's say
it takeover. Because I'm a huge basketball fan man, NBA
all Start weekend got blasted.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Were not in favor of the format. What did you think?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Even Kevin Durant was like joking, but he's like, everybody
hates it. Let's just cancel the weekend and take a break.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Really, he's some what he said. I didn't know that,
Yeah I did. I watched it. I got to watch
it courtside, which is super fun. Admittedly, was a little
bit confused at the format, not gonna lie. It was
Victoria and I'm a manager. We were just trying to
guess what was happening. I'm also not even a huge
sports person to begin with, so this format was a
little challenging to grasp. But it was fun. I will
(02:19):
say it was entertaining. We had our eyes peeled the
whole time. They had so many like guests and like
ghost like there were like performers.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
In the middle.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And I thought the game itself was great. It was
just like a lot. It was like a very overstimulating experience.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So what were you doing there?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
I was singing the national anthem for Canada because we
had a few Canadian players on, you know, playing, so
I sang the Canadian national anthem, which is super fun.
I'm very glad I didn't get booed, because I was
expecting to. It worked out.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, you know, that's so, buddy.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Canada is always known to be the nicest people in
the world, and here, you know, you guys are now
booing our national anthem. No blame because you know, as
we're trying to make you the fifty first date. But
it's funny, like for you getting caught up in the interchange,
it must be very interesting, and I imagine you have
(03:16):
a lot of thoughts on it, which I will not
put you on the spot. But you know, it is
fascinating to watch because Canada is always known.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
To be our very nice neighbors to the north and now,
you know, I.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Know, I feel like it's like we're in a way.
I think the feeling behind it is like getting back
at the bully and standing up for yourself. However, I
am like, I understand the sentiment. I don't like the
idea of booing someone's national anthem, though, I feel like
that's just not kind. It feels like very disrespectful. So
I don't like that we do that. It's not our
(03:47):
proudest moment. But I do understand where the the anger
is coming from. For sure, there's a lot of tension,
there's a lot of you know, I think standing up
for ourselves that we feel we need to do. We
obviously haven't felt too respected by our neighbors. But I
do think that it's a I don't think you should
fight fire with fire. I don't agree with the booing
(04:08):
of the national anthem.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Well, and thankfully, at least, as you say, you did
not get booed, because you guys aren't.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Doing anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Other than the booing. Maybe that's the that's the thing
I guess we're doing wrong, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Last thing on the All Star weekend.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
But it is funny, as look, I have this great
story I was talking to this guy once. His name
is Jerry Shilling, and Jerry was Elvis' best friend Elvis Presley,
so I know him through like an old manager friend.
And Jerry had this incredible story. He was telling us
that he once invited Wilt Chamberlain to come to Vegas
(04:44):
to see Elvis Presley, and he was like giving He
was asking Elvis please be nice to him, blah blah blah,
and Alvis was giving him shit, Jerry shit, and then
you know, like so Jerry was all nervous, and then
in the middle of Elvis's set, he liked shouted out
Wilt invited him backstage.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
They had a great meeting and Jerry was like, wow,
I didn't even know you kne who he was.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And Elvis responded and I thought this was an interesting quote.
He goes number one always looks out for number one,
and I thought that was such a cool quote. And
when you're at All Star Weekend, these people like there's
so much similarity between athletes and musicians. You put in
so much work, there's so much prep, you're driven your
whole life to achieve this. Were there people you got
to talk to you that were really inspiring because again,
(05:28):
you're watching people who are at your level, just in
a whole different world.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Yeah, definitely, It's interesting because there are a lot of similarities,
I would say, between musicians and athletes. I never really
realized that, you know, until I got, you know, deep
into the throes of doing music. I think it's of
course a lot more physically taxing, i'd say, to be
an athlete. But unfortunately I didn't actually get the chance
to speak with anybody. I was like, I watched the
game and I didn't see anybody after. But I do
(05:56):
watch a lot of like athlete interviews and things like that.
I was a huge fan, or still I am a
huge fan of Kobe Bryant one because he's Italian like myself,
so I always felt like a kindred is with him.
But just hearing how he speaks about or how he
spoke about, you know, being an athlete and following your
dreams and kind of you know, sustaining a career and
(06:17):
the purpose behind that was always super inspiring. So I've
taken some things from him, But I I didn't get
the chance to talk to anybody that day like I
would have liked to.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Who would have been the one person he really wanted
to talk to.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
I love Steph Curry. I think he's like such a
cool family man. He's obviously super talented. I love Jimmy
Butler too. I don't know if he was I don't
think he was there, but I love Jimmy Butler. I
think he's really funny and I like a lot of
his sentiments as well. But I didn't get to meet
him either.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah cool, I'm gonn let's say shake over because now
that I've dominated to talk with sports, but it is
fascinating to me because there are so many parallels. And
I've talked with like people like David Rossdale from Bush
or Dave Bond from Dave from Depecheville, and they're actually
be geting friends with Roger Federer, the tennis player. There's
a lot of mutual love between athletes and musicians. So
(07:07):
it's interesting to draw the parallels.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
For sure the connection to genius or the aspiring to
you know, be great, that like resonance, I'm sure is
very similar for all those fields. So cool to see
how your sounds evolved. Have you've evolved, you know, over
the course of really growing up. I was curious with
(07:32):
this new album. The creative process was that very different
than previous albums. Was there anything surprising?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yes, honestly, Well, first of all, this was the longest
that I've taken to write a project before. It was
about three years, whereas in the past I've taken about
it a year or so. It was like a lot
quicker of a turnaround. I think with this album it
took me a long time to get into it, just
because I felt like I needed to reshape my understanding
(08:03):
of what being an artist even means, or what my
purpose is, or what I'm even doing this for. I
think for a while, you know, when you're doing this
for ten years, you're kind of on autopilot and you
start to lose the innocence of you know, why you
wanted to do it when you first started, you know,
and sometimes you get a couple of punches thrown at
you by this industry that can be very challenging. And
(08:25):
so I think I developed like a little bit of
like a resentment for it in a way, and I
think I was like not writing because I just felt
super uninspired, and I was just kind of debating if
I even wanted to continue doing it. To be frank,
so I had to sort of reshape, you know, what
it meant to me to be an artist and like
(08:46):
rediscover that like innocent love for music first of all,
which took me a little bit of time. And I also,
you know, was experiencing new things that I'd never really
written about before, which is, you know, just like simple
things like joy and comfort in a relationship. And I'm
somebody who tends to draw a lot of inspiration from
pain and melancholy, as most artists do, I think, because
(09:08):
you know, you don't really need to vent about things
when you're happy. So it was challenging also to like
step into a new voice and figure out how do
I write from like this new place of happiness, How
do I write when there's you know, when there are
things that are making me happy, like you know I was.
I still had a lot of pain there, like residual
pain from things that I was dealing with, which you know,
(09:28):
was easier to write about, but the happy stuff was
a little challenging. So there were like little bumps along
the way, but I think those really helped me sharpen
my pen and just like reshape who I am a
little bit, which was really interesting, and I think that
was probably the most surprising thing. I was drawing from
like new inspirations and sort of like repositioning myself a
(09:49):
little bit. But it was a really fun process. I
did have a lot of fun writing it. Once I
got out of the little funk, I think I just
really enjoyed myself and recorded a lot of this album
predominant live live instrumentation, which is also new for me,
so a lot of new.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Stuff, wow interesting live.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
There's so many artists and athletes and creators talk about,
you know, this process of getting over those humps in
their career to aspire to new mountaintops, and a lot
of people talk about their why and it's often kind
of a larger than life reasoning, you know, why they
(10:44):
keep going. And this podcast is called in service of
So if you had to boil down what you're in
service of for your music, and maybe that's a different
for this past album, what would you say.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I think there's there's two sides that I think, you know,
on the more selfish side, I just love to do it.
I think it's like it's my favorite thing to do.
One of my favorite feelings in the world is to
you know, complete a song that didn't exist, you know
when you first walked in the room, and you know,
walking in the room with nothing and leaving with something
is the best feeling. So I love that and it
(11:22):
just fulfills me so much as a as a person.
But I think there's the other side of it that
I think is to some degree the responsibility of an artist,
which is to you know, show people that they're not
alone in their feelings and to maybe hold up a
mirror to the listener in whatever way. And yeah, I
mean maybe not necessarily have the answers for people, but
(11:44):
just like provide people comfort and knowing that they're not
the only person that's had a thought or feeling like
that before. You know, that's what I think my my
in service of what would be I guess, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Have two questions now based on that one. What was
that first song for you that hell with the mirror
for you and made you realize, Okay, other people think
like me, because there are the songs you know where
you're like, especially when you're younger and you're listening to
it and you're like, shit, how they get in my head?
Like it's weird, Like they know exactly what I'm thinking.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, there's so many songs, so so,
so many songs that have made me feel that way.
I remember listening to to Amy Winehouse's music when I
was probably too young to listen to Amy Winehouse.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And while I didn't directly understand a lot of the
things she was saying, I understood that feeling of like
just having this like cloud over me, or feeling imperfect,
feeling like I'm not good enough, you know, that sense
of like unrequited love and things like that, Like you know,
I experienced them at a young age, like in my
teenage years. So again maybe not as heavy as she
(12:50):
was dealing with, but that feeling of just like feeling
a little less than an imperfect was a big one,
and she was like, you know, a huge mirror for me.
And then you know, just even like artists like Stevie
Nicks and Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin, just those women
who again just like reflected that like imperfectness and that grittiness,
(13:13):
you know, because I often felt like I didn't fit
in a lot growing up. Again, as a lot of
artists do. I think that's why we gravitate towards art
and so women like that that I saw myself in
were like super instrumental.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, Chris Cornell, who was a friend of mine, I
had a great quote on that about you know, I
can't remember the exact quote now, but it's so funny
how rock stars are not built from the cool people.
They're built from the people who'd never fit in and like,
you know, you think that they're like, well, like Chris
was literally the coolest person in the world. Looked like
a Greek god saying like one, you know, but he's like,
I was always such an outcast, and I think it's
(13:51):
true all artists. And it's funny because you kind of
learn how to speak from that by being a musician.
I've been around like I lived to parties at Prince's
house just because you know, I knew people who knew him.
I was not nearly that cool, but you know, you
literally would not talk to anybody who he didn't play
music with. He could only speak through music. Brian Wilson
(14:11):
with the Beach Voice is the same way. Did you
feel like you learned to do language when you learn music?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
For sure? One hundred percent, Yeah, one hundred percent. And
for me it was always so challenging to express myself
verbally in life. I just always had a hard time.
I was very quiet. I didn't really know how to
express myself or like, you know, find my footing in
regular life. And I think once I discovered music, I
(14:37):
realized it was like one a language that I understood,
that I felt understood me. But it was also like
a thing that I that I had, that I that
was mine, you know, like this like little magic trick
that I could do that made me feel special, you know,
And I think that's that's just what people want. You
just want to feel like you belong somewhere and like
(14:58):
you're you're good at something, like you can stand for something.
And so that was my that was my thing, you know,
because I wasn't particularly great at much else, you know,
and I you know, didn't really stand out in other ways.
But I noticed that the feeling that music gave me
when i'd listened to it, when I would write it,
when i'd sing it felt really good. And then once
I got the courage to sing in front of other people,
(15:19):
the feeling that the reaction would give me was also
super special, because I was like, oh, wow, like people
see me, I'm like I'm making people feel something here
which I'd never felt before, you know, so I think
it was. Yeah, it was. It was super special. And
I guess to answer your question in a short way, yes,
it does feel like I discovered a new language.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, it's funny when you put that language to use
and then say I'll let you take over again. And
a second but you know, we haven't really talked that
much about love and hyperbole and by the way, which
is such a great name and such a wonderful you know,
I don't know where the title came from, but yes,
because when you're in love it feels also hyperbolic, and
then when you're out of it, you're like, what the
hell was I thinking?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
But you know, it's a great title. It feels like
a movie. But I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Ask you, was there you talked about the writing process.
Was there one song that jump started it where you
were like, Okay, now I can write happier songs, or
I can write in this new way where you realized
the direction that the album was going.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
For sure. Yeah, I mean there are a couple of
songs that didn't make the album that kind of, you know,
helped kick start it. I just felt like they I
don't know, they weren't the best depiction of what I
was feeling. But I would say the first song that
ended up making the album that felt that way as
a song called Obvious, which you know, I tried to put,
you know, chronologically in the middle of the album because
(16:41):
it did feel like that turning point where you know,
you're kind of face with this like fork in the road,
you know, and you're faced with this offering of joy
and happiness that feels very fragile, and you're just like, okay,
am I gonna sabotage this? Or am I going to
try to follow it? And you know, not let all
these things that have followed me my whole life get
(17:01):
in the way of it. Right. So it's just a
song about like trying not to listen to fear and
to self soothe and help sue the other person that
you know you're gonna be you're gonna be okay, and
that you're sure about this and you want to make
it work. So that was kind of the turning point,
I think, and it was really nice to write from
that place, you know, to have a song that you
(17:23):
know has a little bit of fear attached to it,
but it is essentially just saying I'm not gonna let
this get in the way of this. And it was
really nice because I always tend to write with like
some sort of negative connotation. It's just the way my
default is. It's the muscle that's the most strengthened. I
think in my songwriting is just how to write from
a place of pain, not on purpose, it's just I
think where I tend to gather inspiration from. So this
(17:45):
was a nice refreshing turning point.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
The visual components to the album are so gorgeous. I
love the music video for Obvious. I wanted to ask
the inspiration but behind all of the visual art, painting
and then the roar shock ink block test, like where
was that seed planted? And was your synesthesia related to Obviously.
(18:14):
You've talked about how that influences your songwriting and the
visuals that you choose, but this felt like a real
focus in on visual art as well.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, definitely. I think the idea of
visual art, I mean, first of all, just came from
my love of visual art, and yeah, so a little
bit of my synesthesia too, where you know, I hear
music and I always just picture so many colors and textures,
and every album I make has a world kind of
attached to it, so that aspect is there. And then
(18:45):
I also think, you know, this album, and specifically the
song Obvious, is very much about perspective, you know, and
interpretation sometimes over interpretation, you know. And I kind of
look at love the same way that I think a
lot of people look at art, which is, you know,
you can hold up the same abstract piece of art
to one hundred people and they'll all find something new
(19:06):
in it, or they'll all like, you know, see it
in a different way. And sometimes we overanalyze and we
try to place meaning to things that should just be
left alone, you know. And I think that's very similar
with love. I think sometimes we will pick apart what
a person means by this and kind of inject our
own past and fears and insecurities into someone else, and
(19:28):
when we should maybe just let it be as well.
And so I thought those parallels were really interesting, and
I kind of wanted to depict that, like, you know,
interpretation thing and perspective thing into the video because I
feel like there's a lot of parallels there with like
love and art, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I so appreciate how your music is. It's a light,
it's a beacon. You're trying to turn that pain into joy.
And it's been really meaningful to see how that's affected
people that I've known. I have a cousin named to
so Say, and your music has really gotten her through
some hard times. And I'm curious for you if you
(20:07):
look back on your younger self, what would you want
to tell her if you had to give her one
piece of advice or a few things.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, thank you. Tell
your cousin thank you so much. That's really sweet. Yeah,
it's always so incredible to hear that, because you don't
know who your music's going to reach, you know, and
it's one thing to like see numbers on a page,
but to hear people's actual stories is really beautiful. So
thank you. And I mean, I guess there's so many
(20:39):
things I would tell my younger self. I as cheesy
as it sounds, I think the thing that I would
tell her most is just like to be as present
as possible and to really try hard to take care
of herself and process things as they come. Because things happened,
you know, very slowly, and then very quickly. For me,
(21:00):
it was like it just felt like a complete one
eighty and so many things were happening at a very
sensitive time in my life. You know, I was like
a teenager and trying to figure out how to navigate
that and self identity and all that, and I think
doing that in front of millions of people can be
(21:21):
very challenging, and so yeah, I would just tell her
she's doing a good job and to stay who she is,
but also just to stay as present as possible because
it's going to go buy so fast and she's not
going to remember a lot of it because it just
went by so fast. So yeah, yeah, I think those
are some things I would tell her.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
That's so funny because you're like, oh, it can be challenging.
That is a very polite way of putting it. Because
for me, having interviewed everyone who ever lived, from James
Brown to Aretha Franklin, Taylor's with there's nothing in this
world that absolutely more than fame. So it's interesting because
you were saying earlier about having to find your joy
for it again, you know, I mean it's very common
(22:03):
because of course you're a kid, you imagine what it's
going to be like to be a rock star, and
then you're like, wait, this is nothing like what I imagine,
you know, So were there points. I mean, there are
great things to it, you know, but there's other things
where you're just like, you know, it's so funny. Of
all people in the world, the person who best described
to me was very man a low believe it or not,
(22:25):
because he's gay. He was closeted in the seventies, you know,
so he was and so he had a different challenge
as well. But he was saying that he would play
arenas because he was huge in the seventies, played to
ten twenty thousand people, and then go to the hotel
and be by himself and be so lonely. So were
the things that really surprised you, and you've now learned
to appreciate and enjoy about this life that you're like, Okay, wait,
(22:50):
this is not what I expected, because I always admired
the hell other people like Slash to the front Day,
people who've been able to survive because, like you mentioned
n Amy Winehouse, there's a lot of people who simply
can never get past that hurdle.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Definitely, yeah, yeah, it's super challenging. I mean, I didn't
even know what to expect because I, you know, kind
of joined this professionally, I guess officially when I was
eighteen years old, so you know, before that, any any
dreaming or understanding that I had in the industry was
just like things that you see in movies and online
and what you imagine it would be. And all I
(23:24):
ever really wanted was just to like make music and perform.
I didn't know anything else around that. I didn't know
what it was gonna come with, and it can be challenging,
you know. It's challenging when like you get the thing
that you have always wanted, but all the things around
it are just like really hard to deal with. And
then you feel like you're told all the time that
(23:46):
you like have to ignore those things and be grateful
because you got the one thing that you wanted, but
nobody talks about the stuff around it, you know, and
you just feel like you have to just swallow it
and keep going because it's the thing you've always wanted, right,
and it's just weird. It's very weird, and doing it
at eighteen, I know there's people who have done it
even younger than me, and I can't even imagine going
(24:06):
through that, but doing it at eighteen as a young
girl who didn't know, like who hadn't even you know,
been to like outside of the country basically, well maybe
like I've been to Italy with my family, but that's it,
Like I hadn't been anywhere. I was going from like
school to home, school to home, you know, doing that
to like not living the same day twice being recognized,
(24:27):
and I don't know, it's just this industry just has
a strange way of just making you feel a little
bit disposable and a little bit like you have to
wear like way too many hats than maybe what you're
built for. And that's really challenging because you feel like
you give so much to it and it doesn't always
give much back to you. So yeah, it can be strange.
(24:48):
It's very hard. You have to have a thick skin
that I'm not really sure I even have. I've just
been challenging, and I think that's why a lot of
people kind of don't make it through because it's painful,
it's hard, and it's not something that's like in our
DNA to process, like it's not something that's meant for
human beings to understand. You know, it's just not like
(25:09):
being recognized by millions of people that you don't recognize
and being perceived in that way and having people tell
you who you are all the time, and this feeling
of like being disposable and alone. It's just not something
that we're meant to process. And I think that's why
it's super challenging. But I'm very grateful to have like
great people in my life who've helped keep me there.
(25:30):
And I've always had a sense of who I am,
which has been extremely helpful. I think in navigating it is,
you know, knowing who I'm not knowing who I am,
And yeah, I mean it's probably done some sort of
damage in my mind, but I think I've made it
out mostly.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Okay, well it seems like it and this will be
my last question. Now let's SAYE finish it off. But
it's funny, you know, because she was talking about her
cousin and she was saying about how her cousins you know,
your music has helped her so much. And it's interesting
because the flip side, of course, is like yeah, being
foxed with you it's super weird, but you also do
(26:06):
get those interactions in those stories from people who are like,
your music literally saved my life, you know. And I've
talked with so many artists about that, and for you,
what are some of the stories you've heard or those
moments where it like it all becomes worthwhile. Yes, weird
people come up to you at I remember Steve Aoki
telling me, like, the worst was when people come take
a picture of you and they have no idea who
(26:26):
you are. They've only seen you someplace. And actually you
have John Mayer, who I fucking love that dude. I
spared the distinction out to me the only journalist in
the history of the world that John Mayer said, would
you actually quote me to because you know John does
not love press. But it's funny because John is a
great dude, and we were talking about it. He talked
about being airport famous when you're like on the pictures,
(26:48):
you know, in Ask magazine at the airport and people
are like, oh wait, who are you?
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I know you?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, and it's so for you, But it all becomes
worthwhile when do you have those moments when peopeople like
say his cousin or like, your music literally saved my life.
So what if it's some of those moments for you.
And have there been songs that you've heard that about
that surprise you as well?
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, for sure, there's been so many songs. Honestly, when
people mention the deep cuts or like songs that you
know had a totally different meaning to me that you
know have taken on a new meaning for someone else,
is always like, oh, a pleasant surprise. And yeah, I
think that that is the thing that I think keeps
me doing this and the thing that the industry does
give back to me. Because I know I said that
(27:31):
you give so much to an industry that might not
give put ton back to you. I think the thing
that it does give back is that sense of like
like the idea that you are helping people. You know
that your songs mean things to people, or that you
mean something to people, even if you don't always see them,
And getting to hear those stories from those people is
(27:54):
always the most fulfilling thing. It just like fills my
tank up. It just like puts everything into perspective for
me again. And I think that's why I'm still doing
this and why I want to continue doing it is
because of those people, you know, and it's just so nice,
Like I've heard so many amazing stories. I've heard so
many stories of people who you know, were like closeted
that have you know that my music has like helped
(28:16):
them come to terms with that and has helped them
come out to their families. You know, people have come
out to me for the first time before they've told
people in their lives because they've felt like they could
trust me. You know. That's always super inspiring. That There's
this older woman one time that came up to me
and said, if I had your music when I was younger,
and she was like in her eighties. She said, if
(28:36):
I had your music when I was younger, I would
have been president. And I always thought that was like
the coolest thing that anyone's ever said to me. So yeah,
like things like that just mean the most and it's
just the most incredible feeling to know that. And yeah,
that's that's what keeps me doing it, you know, and
helps me shut the rest out.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's amazing how music can so powerfully affect people.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's like our ancient one of our ancient things. And
I think it's tied to how the artist is a channel,
if you will, and in order I think for the
artists to be the channel, you have to develop like rituals,
you have to develop your own space, your own sense
of safety. I think, could you talk about how you
(29:32):
know the things that you've discovered over the years, perhaps
of rituals which is kind of a weird word, but
you know, just different processes that has helped you in
your creative process and just music.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Yeah, I guess because I've traveled so much, I think
like I've had I've had to learn how to be
able to write in like different settings. And it's kind
of hard to maintain a ritual because I do kind
of write all over the place. But I think like
mentally emotionally, the ritual for me is just always like
leading with no judgment, which has been very hard for
me because I tend to be a very shy writer,
(30:08):
and in the past, like I was so scared of
like writing in front of other people or producers for
fear of wasting their time with a bad idea or
you know, them thinking that I'm like not good enough.
There's always this like sense of like having to prove myself.
And I think for this album, what I really did
was like just walk in with the sentiment that like
anything goes. Throw pain at the canvas, throw darts at
(30:31):
the board, just see what happens. And when you kind
of like take that judgment out of it, or like
even take yourself out of it, like just thinking like
this isn't even about me, Like there's there are ideas
kind of over us. Let's just try to catch one
like it's not on me. You know. I think that
that just like helps me be a more free writer
when I kind of go in with without that, And yeah,
(30:54):
I think that's the only kind of ritual that I have,
is just like starting with that in mind, and then
everything else I just kind of try to adapt to
whatever environment. I'm pretty lucky that way where I can
kind of write in different different settings just because I've
had to. You know, I've written on the road, I've
written in the most weird places. And then I guess,
(31:16):
just like rituals just for life outside of creativity, I
just try to like implement self care as much as possible,
little moments to myself, you know, putting my headphones on
and just like listening to music, having little moments, little
pockets of time to myself, because you know, doing this
for a living, you find that you're not often alone,
You're kind of always around people all the time. So
(31:36):
just finding those little moments of escape to like process
what is going on in my head and what I
even want to say, or you know, how I'm feeling
that day, those things are really important to me too.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Well, I am curious because I asked you about John.
I love that dude.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I've known him for years, and he also, besides being
such a cool guy, is so smart musically. He will
geek out on like the craziest stuff. So what advice
or like things did you learn from him that helped
you both because he has dealt with insane levels of fame,
but also just know so much music. So is there
(32:12):
one song that he like turned you onto or.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
You know, I mean we talk about a lot of music.
One song that he uh, well, like this was like
I want to say, twenty twenty sixteen. I like hopped
on stage with him one time. He had like this
little like he was doing this dive bar tour and
he hopped on I hopped on stage with him and
we did an air kabad Do cover. So we talked
(32:35):
a lot about her. Who else have we talked about
in the past? He talked about like Jay Dilla, cool producers, D'Angelo,
and I mean, I've learned a lot from him, just
even like with songwriting. He told me one time, he said,
you know, like that there were a few of his songs,
like some of his biggest songs that ended up blowing
up he thought originally were just like B side songs
(32:56):
because he felt like they were too simple or too boring,
And are the songs that like connect with people the most.
And so he told me like, if you you know,
likely if if you have a lyric that you think
is boring or a song that you think is too simple,
that's probably the one that's gonna hit because people want
that people like. The things that people resonate with are
things that they can understand. And I think as writers
we can relate to the fact that sometimes we try
(33:17):
to impress ourselves when we write. We try to say
things in the most poetic way, which is great for us.
It helps our ego when we crack the code. But
I think, you know, what he was saying is like,
don't try to impress yourself, just say the thing, you know.
And I think that that's something that I've carried with me.
You know, he told me that in like twenty sixteen.
I've carried that since on every project I've ever written since.
You know, stop trying and impress yourself. Just say the
(33:39):
thing that's always like his voice is always in my
mind there, And it's true, It really is true. That's
the stuff that hits people the most is when you
just say it plainly and openly, you know, instead of
trying to disguise it with metaphor all the time. And
like that. That stuff is cool too, The little artistic
self indulgent side is cool too. But I think saying
the thing is the thing that you know gets into
(34:01):
the core of people.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, that's what makes the best writing.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
And we're gonna have to wrap up in a second,
but quickly, is there one song on this album where
you feel like you achieved that that you're really proud
of that, because always that is the hardest thing to do,
you know, and unless you're like John Lennon did that amazingly,
you know, we just have that simplistic thing. So for you,
was there one song on Salbo where you're like, I
nailed it?
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Hmm? I mean I tried to do that on all
of them. There's a song called Fire that I really
really love, and I feel like I did that with
a lot of the lyrics. I just kind of like
said how I was feeling. I mean, there's still some
metaphor in there too, but yeah, I don't know. I
feel like that song is like super simple in a
(34:47):
way that I probably would have tried to like disguise
or fill up in the past. I really just left
a lot of space in it, and I'm so glad
because I think that's what makes it good, you know,
And I think that's what makes it emotional. Is is
just like leaving room for a space, letting people think
and breathe a little bit, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Cool. Was there anything that you want to add you
did not ask you about?
Speaker 4 (35:11):
No, I think that's everything. I'm going on tour. I
guess I should probably say that. The team's probably like
mention the tour. So I'm going on tour in the spring.
We're going to North America, Europe, hitting Australia, Asia, places
I've never toured before, so that's going to be really exciting.
And yeah, that's it, I think.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Cool. Well, thank you so much for the time. This
is a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Thank you. Thank you both so much for your thoughtful questions.
This is awesome. I appreciate it.
Welcome back to In Service Up, where we explore the
heart behind the art, the calling behind the craft, and
the deeper why behind the work that moves us. Each week,
we sit down with artist, thinkers, and culture creators who
are redefining what it means to live and create with intention. Today,
we're joined by Grammy winning singer songwriter Alysia Karra, whose
latest album Love and Hyperbole is an incredible exploration of contradiction, vulnerability,
(00:28):
and self realization. Known for her raw honesty and poetic lyricism,
Alysia opens up about the emotional architecture of the record,
how loved his stories, clarifies, exaggerates, and teaches. We dive
into the stories behind the songs, the evolution of her sound,
her synthesia, and the delicate art of being both the
narrator and the subject in her own life.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you so much, Lessie for being here today. And
before we came on, we were.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Just talking about your travel adventures and because your answer
was so damn good, tell us again who you want
to do a buddy movie with your remake of planes,
trains and automobiles. It's you traverse from what Victorias saying,
San Francisco, Chicago to Buffalo and then drove to Toronto.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Yes, crazy journey. Okay, well, if we are moving away
from the original cast, love Steve Martin. But if we're
moving away from original cast, I would say my dream
duo would be Jim Carrey and Jack Black. Those are
like my comedy legends. I love them.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
That is a good deal.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And wait now I have to ask you before we
come on to other stuff, and before I let's say
it takeover. Because I'm a huge basketball fan man, NBA
all Start weekend got blasted.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Were not in favor of the format. What did you think?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Even Kevin Durant was like joking, but he's like, everybody
hates it. Let's just cancel the weekend and take a break.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Really, he's some what he said. I didn't know that,
Yeah I did. I watched it. I got to watch
it courtside, which is super fun. Admittedly, was a little
bit confused at the format, not gonna lie. It was
Victoria and I'm a manager. We were just trying to
guess what was happening. I'm also not even a huge
sports person to begin with, so this format was a
little challenging to grasp. But it was fun. I will
(02:19):
say it was entertaining. We had our eyes peeled the
whole time. They had so many like guests and like
ghost like there were like performers.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
In the middle.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And I thought the game itself was great. It was
just like a lot. It was like a very overstimulating experience.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So what were you doing there?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
I was singing the national anthem for Canada because we
had a few Canadian players on, you know, playing, so
I sang the Canadian national anthem, which is super fun.
I'm very glad I didn't get booed, because I was
expecting to. It worked out.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, you know, that's so, buddy.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Canada is always known to be the nicest people in
the world, and here, you know, you guys are now
booing our national anthem. No blame because you know, as
we're trying to make you the fifty first date. But
it's funny, like for you getting caught up in the interchange,
it must be very interesting, and I imagine you have
(03:16):
a lot of thoughts on it, which I will not
put you on the spot. But you know, it is
fascinating to watch because Canada is always known.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
To be our very nice neighbors to the north and now,
you know, I.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Know, I feel like it's like we're in a way.
I think the feeling behind it is like getting back
at the bully and standing up for yourself. However, I
am like, I understand the sentiment. I don't like the
idea of booing someone's national anthem, though, I feel like
that's just not kind. It feels like very disrespectful. So
I don't like that we do that. It's not our
(03:47):
proudest moment. But I do understand where the the anger
is coming from. For sure, there's a lot of tension,
there's a lot of you know, I think standing up
for ourselves that we feel we need to do. We
obviously haven't felt too respected by our neighbors. But I
do think that it's a I don't think you should
fight fire with fire. I don't agree with the booing
(04:08):
of the national anthem.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Well, and thankfully, at least, as you say, you did
not get booed, because you guys aren't.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Doing anything wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Other than the booing. Maybe that's the that's the thing
I guess we're doing wrong, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Last thing on the All Star weekend.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
But it is funny, as look, I have this great
story I was talking to this guy once. His name
is Jerry Shilling, and Jerry was Elvis' best friend Elvis Presley,
so I know him through like an old manager friend.
And Jerry had this incredible story. He was telling us
that he once invited Wilt Chamberlain to come to Vegas
(04:44):
to see Elvis Presley, and he was like giving He
was asking Elvis please be nice to him, blah blah blah,
and Alvis was giving him shit, Jerry shit, and then
you know, like so Jerry was all nervous, and then
in the middle of Elvis's set, he liked shouted out
Wilt invited him backstage.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
They had a great meeting and Jerry was like, wow,
I didn't even know you kne who he was.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And Elvis responded and I thought this was an interesting quote.
He goes number one always looks out for number one,
and I thought that was such a cool quote. And
when you're at All Star Weekend, these people like there's
so much similarity between athletes and musicians. You put in
so much work, there's so much prep, you're driven your
whole life to achieve this. Were there people you got
to talk to you that were really inspiring because again,
(05:28):
you're watching people who are at your level, just in
a whole different world.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Yeah, definitely, It's interesting because there are a lot of similarities,
I would say, between musicians and athletes. I never really
realized that, you know, until I got, you know, deep
into the throes of doing music. I think it's of
course a lot more physically taxing, i'd say, to be
an athlete. But unfortunately I didn't actually get the chance
to speak with anybody. I was like, I watched the
game and I didn't see anybody after. But I do
(05:56):
watch a lot of like athlete interviews and things like that.
I was a huge fan, or still I am a
huge fan of Kobe Bryant one because he's Italian like myself,
so I always felt like a kindred is with him.
But just hearing how he speaks about or how he
spoke about, you know, being an athlete and following your
dreams and kind of you know, sustaining a career and
(06:17):
the purpose behind that was always super inspiring. So I've
taken some things from him, But I I didn't get
the chance to talk to anybody that day like I
would have liked to.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Who would have been the one person he really wanted
to talk to.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
I love Steph Curry. I think he's like such a
cool family man. He's obviously super talented. I love Jimmy
Butler too. I don't know if he was I don't
think he was there, but I love Jimmy Butler. I
think he's really funny and I like a lot of
his sentiments as well. But I didn't get to meet
him either.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah cool, I'm gonn let's say shake over because now
that I've dominated to talk with sports, but it is
fascinating to me because there are so many parallels. And
I've talked with like people like David Rossdale from Bush
or Dave Bond from Dave from Depecheville, and they're actually
be geting friends with Roger Federer, the tennis player. There's
a lot of mutual love between athletes and musicians. So
(07:07):
it's interesting to draw the parallels.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
For sure the connection to genius or the aspiring to
you know, be great, that like resonance, I'm sure is
very similar for all those fields. So cool to see
how your sounds evolved. Have you've evolved, you know, over
the course of really growing up. I was curious with
(07:32):
this new album. The creative process was that very different
than previous albums. Was there anything surprising?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yes, honestly, Well, first of all, this was the longest
that I've taken to write a project before. It was
about three years, whereas in the past I've taken about
it a year or so. It was like a lot
quicker of a turnaround. I think with this album it
took me a long time to get into it, just
because I felt like I needed to reshape my understanding
(08:03):
of what being an artist even means, or what my
purpose is, or what I'm even doing this for. I
think for a while, you know, when you're doing this
for ten years, you're kind of on autopilot and you
start to lose the innocence of you know, why you
wanted to do it when you first started, you know,
and sometimes you get a couple of punches thrown at
you by this industry that can be very challenging. And
(08:25):
so I think I developed like a little bit of
like a resentment for it in a way, and I
think I was like not writing because I just felt
super uninspired, and I was just kind of debating if
I even wanted to continue doing it. To be frank,
so I had to sort of reshape, you know, what
it meant to me to be an artist and like
(08:46):
rediscover that like innocent love for music first of all,
which took me a little bit of time. And I also,
you know, was experiencing new things that I'd never really
written about before, which is, you know, just like simple
things like joy and comfort in a relationship. And I'm
somebody who tends to draw a lot of inspiration from
pain and melancholy, as most artists do, I think, because
(09:08):
you know, you don't really need to vent about things
when you're happy. So it was challenging also to like
step into a new voice and figure out how do
I write from like this new place of happiness, How
do I write when there's you know, when there are
things that are making me happy, like you know I was.
I still had a lot of pain there, like residual
pain from things that I was dealing with, which you know,
(09:28):
was easier to write about, but the happy stuff was
a little challenging. So there were like little bumps along
the way, but I think those really helped me sharpen
my pen and just like reshape who I am a
little bit, which was really interesting, and I think that
was probably the most surprising thing. I was drawing from
like new inspirations and sort of like repositioning myself a
(09:49):
little bit. But it was a really fun process. I
did have a lot of fun writing it. Once I
got out of the little funk, I think I just
really enjoyed myself and recorded a lot of this album
predominant live live instrumentation, which is also new for me,
so a lot of new.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
Stuff, wow interesting live.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
There's so many artists and athletes and creators talk about,
you know, this process of getting over those humps in
their career to aspire to new mountaintops, and a lot
of people talk about their why and it's often kind
of a larger than life reasoning, you know, why they
(10:44):
keep going. And this podcast is called in service of
So if you had to boil down what you're in
service of for your music, and maybe that's a different
for this past album, what would you say.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I think there's there's two sides that I think, you know,
on the more selfish side, I just love to do it.
I think it's like it's my favorite thing to do.
One of my favorite feelings in the world is to
you know, complete a song that didn't exist, you know
when you first walked in the room, and you know,
walking in the room with nothing and leaving with something
is the best feeling. So I love that and it
(11:22):
just fulfills me so much as a as a person.
But I think there's the other side of it that
I think is to some degree the responsibility of an artist,
which is to you know, show people that they're not
alone in their feelings and to maybe hold up a
mirror to the listener in whatever way. And yeah, I
mean maybe not necessarily have the answers for people, but
(11:44):
just like provide people comfort and knowing that they're not
the only person that's had a thought or feeling like
that before. You know, that's what I think my my
in service of what would be I guess, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Have two questions now based on that one. What was
that first song for you that hell with the mirror
for you and made you realize, Okay, other people think
like me, because there are the songs you know where
you're like, especially when you're younger and you're listening to
it and you're like, shit, how they get in my head?
Like it's weird, Like they know exactly what I'm thinking.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, there's so many songs, so so,
so many songs that have made me feel that way.
I remember listening to to Amy Winehouse's music when I
was probably too young to listen to Amy Winehouse.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
And while I didn't directly understand a lot of the
things she was saying, I understood that feeling of like
just having this like cloud over me, or feeling imperfect,
feeling like I'm not good enough, you know, that sense
of like unrequited love and things like that, Like you know,
I experienced them at a young age, like in my
teenage years. So again maybe not as heavy as she
(12:50):
was dealing with, but that feeling of just like feeling
a little less than an imperfect was a big one,
and she was like, you know, a huge mirror for me.
And then you know, just even like artists like Stevie
Nicks and Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin, just those women
who again just like reflected that like imperfectness and that grittiness,
(13:13):
you know, because I often felt like I didn't fit
in a lot growing up. Again, as a lot of
artists do. I think that's why we gravitate towards art
and so women like that that I saw myself in
were like super instrumental.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, Chris Cornell, who was a friend of mine, I
had a great quote on that about you know, I
can't remember the exact quote now, but it's so funny
how rock stars are not built from the cool people.
They're built from the people who'd never fit in and like,
you know, you think that they're like, well, like Chris
was literally the coolest person in the world. Looked like
a Greek god saying like one, you know, but he's like,
I was always such an outcast, and I think it's
(13:51):
true all artists. And it's funny because you kind of
learn how to speak from that by being a musician.
I've been around like I lived to parties at Prince's
house just because you know, I knew people who knew him.
I was not nearly that cool, but you know, you
literally would not talk to anybody who he didn't play
music with. He could only speak through music. Brian Wilson
(14:11):
with the Beach Voice is the same way. Did you
feel like you learned to do language when you learn music?
Speaker 4 (14:17):
For sure? One hundred percent, Yeah, one hundred percent. And
for me it was always so challenging to express myself
verbally in life. I just always had a hard time.
I was very quiet. I didn't really know how to
express myself or like, you know, find my footing in
regular life. And I think once I discovered music, I
(14:37):
realized it was like one a language that I understood,
that I felt understood me. But it was also like
a thing that I that I had, that I that
was mine, you know, like this like little magic trick
that I could do that made me feel special, you know,
And I think that's that's just what people want. You
just want to feel like you belong somewhere and like
(14:58):
you're you're good at something, like you can stand for something.
And so that was my that was my thing, you know,
because I wasn't particularly great at much else, you know,
and I you know, didn't really stand out in other ways.
But I noticed that the feeling that music gave me
when i'd listened to it, when I would write it,
when i'd sing it felt really good. And then once
I got the courage to sing in front of other people,
(15:19):
the feeling that the reaction would give me was also
super special, because I was like, oh, wow, like people
see me, I'm like I'm making people feel something here
which I'd never felt before, you know, so I think
it was. Yeah, it was. It was super special. And
I guess to answer your question in a short way, yes,
it does feel like I discovered a new language.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Well, it's funny when you put that language to use
and then say I'll let you take over again. And
a second but you know, we haven't really talked that
much about love and hyperbole and by the way, which
is such a great name and such a wonderful you know,
I don't know where the title came from, but yes,
because when you're in love it feels also hyperbolic, and
then when you're out of it, you're like, what the
hell was I thinking?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
But you know, it's a great title. It feels like
a movie. But I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Ask you, was there you talked about the writing process.
Was there one song that jump started it where you
were like, Okay, now I can write happier songs, or
I can write in this new way where you realized
the direction that the album was going.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
For sure. Yeah, I mean there are a couple of
songs that didn't make the album that kind of, you know,
helped kick start it. I just felt like they I
don't know, they weren't the best depiction of what I
was feeling. But I would say the first song that
ended up making the album that felt that way as
a song called Obvious, which you know, I tried to put,
you know, chronologically in the middle of the album because
(16:41):
it did feel like that turning point where you know,
you're kind of face with this like fork in the road,
you know, and you're faced with this offering of joy
and happiness that feels very fragile, and you're just like, okay,
am I gonna sabotage this? Or am I going to
try to follow it? And you know, not let all
these things that have followed me my whole life get
(17:01):
in the way of it. Right. So it's just a
song about like trying not to listen to fear and
to self soothe and help sue the other person that
you know you're gonna be you're gonna be okay, and
that you're sure about this and you want to make
it work. So that was kind of the turning point,
I think, and it was really nice to write from
that place, you know, to have a song that you
(17:23):
know has a little bit of fear attached to it,
but it is essentially just saying I'm not gonna let
this get in the way of this. And it was
really nice because I always tend to write with like
some sort of negative connotation. It's just the way my
default is. It's the muscle that's the most strengthened. I
think in my songwriting is just how to write from
a place of pain, not on purpose, it's just I
think where I tend to gather inspiration from. So this
(17:45):
was a nice refreshing turning point.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
The visual components to the album are so gorgeous. I
love the music video for Obvious. I wanted to ask
the inspiration but behind all of the visual art, painting
and then the roar shock ink block test, like where
was that seed planted? And was your synesthesia related to Obviously.
(18:14):
You've talked about how that influences your songwriting and the
visuals that you choose, but this felt like a real
focus in on visual art as well.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, definitely. I think the idea of
visual art, I mean, first of all, just came from
my love of visual art, and yeah, so a little
bit of my synesthesia too, where you know, I hear
music and I always just picture so many colors and textures,
and every album I make has a world kind of
attached to it, so that aspect is there. And then
(18:45):
I also think, you know, this album, and specifically the
song Obvious, is very much about perspective, you know, and
interpretation sometimes over interpretation, you know. And I kind of
look at love the same way that I think a
lot of people look at art, which is, you know,
you can hold up the same abstract piece of art
to one hundred people and they'll all find something new
(19:06):
in it, or they'll all like, you know, see it
in a different way. And sometimes we overanalyze and we
try to place meaning to things that should just be
left alone, you know. And I think that's very similar
with love. I think sometimes we will pick apart what
a person means by this and kind of inject our
own past and fears and insecurities into someone else, and
(19:28):
when we should maybe just let it be as well.
And so I thought those parallels were really interesting, and
I kind of wanted to depict that, like, you know,
interpretation thing and perspective thing into the video because I
feel like there's a lot of parallels there with like
love and art, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
I so appreciate how your music is. It's a light,
it's a beacon. You're trying to turn that pain into joy.
And it's been really meaningful to see how that's affected
people that I've known. I have a cousin named to
so Say, and your music has really gotten her through
some hard times. And I'm curious for you if you
(20:07):
look back on your younger self, what would you want
to tell her if you had to give her one
piece of advice or a few things.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, thank you. Tell
your cousin thank you so much. That's really sweet. Yeah,
it's always so incredible to hear that, because you don't
know who your music's going to reach, you know, and
it's one thing to like see numbers on a page,
but to hear people's actual stories is really beautiful. So
thank you. And I mean, I guess there's so many
(20:39):
things I would tell my younger self. I as cheesy
as it sounds, I think the thing that I would
tell her most is just like to be as present
as possible and to really try hard to take care
of herself and process things as they come. Because things happened,
you know, very slowly, and then very quickly. For me,
(21:00):
it was like it just felt like a complete one
eighty and so many things were happening at a very
sensitive time in my life. You know, I was like
a teenager and trying to figure out how to navigate
that and self identity and all that, and I think
doing that in front of millions of people can be
(21:21):
very challenging, and so yeah, I would just tell her
she's doing a good job and to stay who she is,
but also just to stay as present as possible because
it's going to go buy so fast and she's not
going to remember a lot of it because it just
went by so fast. So yeah, yeah, I think those
are some things I would tell her.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
That's so funny because you're like, oh, it can be challenging.
That is a very polite way of putting it. Because
for me, having interviewed everyone who ever lived, from James
Brown to Aretha Franklin, Taylor's with there's nothing in this
world that absolutely more than fame. So it's interesting because
you were saying earlier about having to find your joy
for it again, you know, I mean it's very common
(22:03):
because of course you're a kid, you imagine what it's
going to be like to be a rock star, and
then you're like, wait, this is nothing like what I imagine,
you know, So were there points. I mean, there are
great things to it, you know, but there's other things
where you're just like, you know, it's so funny. Of
all people in the world, the person who best described
to me was very man a low believe it or not,
(22:25):
because he's gay. He was closeted in the seventies, you know,
so he was and so he had a different challenge
as well. But he was saying that he would play
arenas because he was huge in the seventies, played to
ten twenty thousand people, and then go to the hotel
and be by himself and be so lonely. So were
the things that really surprised you, and you've now learned
to appreciate and enjoy about this life that you're like, Okay, wait,
(22:50):
this is not what I expected, because I always admired
the hell other people like Slash to the front Day,
people who've been able to survive because, like you mentioned
n Amy Winehouse, there's a lot of people who simply
can never get past that hurdle.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Definitely, yeah, yeah, it's super challenging. I mean, I didn't
even know what to expect because I, you know, kind
of joined this professionally, I guess officially when I was
eighteen years old, so you know, before that, any any
dreaming or understanding that I had in the industry was
just like things that you see in movies and online
and what you imagine it would be. And all I
(23:24):
ever really wanted was just to like make music and perform.
I didn't know anything else around that. I didn't know
what it was gonna come with, and it can be challenging,
you know. It's challenging when like you get the thing
that you have always wanted, but all the things around
it are just like really hard to deal with. And
then you feel like you're told all the time that
(23:46):
you like have to ignore those things and be grateful
because you got the one thing that you wanted, but
nobody talks about the stuff around it, you know, and
you just feel like you have to just swallow it
and keep going because it's the thing you've always wanted, right,
and it's just weird. It's very weird, and doing it
at eighteen, I know there's people who have done it
even younger than me, and I can't even imagine going
(24:06):
through that, but doing it at eighteen as a young
girl who didn't know, like who hadn't even you know,
been to like outside of the country basically, well maybe
like I've been to Italy with my family, but that's it,
Like I hadn't been anywhere. I was going from like
school to home, school to home, you know, doing that
to like not living the same day twice being recognized,
(24:27):
and I don't know, it's just this industry just has
a strange way of just making you feel a little
bit disposable and a little bit like you have to
wear like way too many hats than maybe what you're
built for. And that's really challenging because you feel like
you give so much to it and it doesn't always
give much back to you. So yeah, it can be strange.
(24:48):
It's very hard. You have to have a thick skin
that I'm not really sure I even have. I've just
been challenging, and I think that's why a lot of
people kind of don't make it through because it's painful,
it's hard, and it's not something that's like in our
DNA to process, like it's not something that's meant for
human beings to understand. You know, it's just not like
(25:09):
being recognized by millions of people that you don't recognize
and being perceived in that way and having people tell
you who you are all the time, and this feeling
of like being disposable and alone. It's just not something
that we're meant to process. And I think that's why
it's super challenging. But I'm very grateful to have like
great people in my life who've helped keep me there.
(25:30):
And I've always had a sense of who I am,
which has been extremely helpful. I think in navigating it is,
you know, knowing who I'm not knowing who I am,
And yeah, I mean it's probably done some sort of
damage in my mind, but I think I've made it
out mostly.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Okay, well it seems like it and this will be
my last question. Now let's SAYE finish it off. But
it's funny, you know, because she was talking about her
cousin and she was saying about how her cousins you know,
your music has helped her so much. And it's interesting
because the flip side, of course, is like yeah, being
foxed with you it's super weird, but you also do
(26:06):
get those interactions in those stories from people who are like,
your music literally saved my life, you know. And I've
talked with so many artists about that, and for you,
what are some of the stories you've heard or those
moments where it like it all becomes worthwhile. Yes, weird
people come up to you at I remember Steve Aoki
telling me, like, the worst was when people come take
a picture of you and they have no idea who
(26:26):
you are. They've only seen you someplace. And actually you
have John Mayer, who I fucking love that dude. I
spared the distinction out to me the only journalist in
the history of the world that John Mayer said, would
you actually quote me to because you know John does
not love press. But it's funny because John is a
great dude, and we were talking about it. He talked
about being airport famous when you're like on the pictures,
(26:48):
you know, in Ask magazine at the airport and people
are like, oh wait, who are you?
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I know you?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, and it's so for you, But it all becomes
worthwhile when do you have those moments when peopeople like
say his cousin or like, your music literally saved my life.
So what if it's some of those moments for you.
And have there been songs that you've heard that about
that surprise you as well?
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, for sure, there's been so many songs. Honestly, when
people mention the deep cuts or like songs that you
know had a totally different meaning to me that you
know have taken on a new meaning for someone else,
is always like, oh, a pleasant surprise. And yeah, I
think that that is the thing that I think keeps
me doing this and the thing that the industry does
give back to me. Because I know I said that
(27:31):
you give so much to an industry that might not
give put ton back to you. I think the thing
that it does give back is that sense of like
like the idea that you are helping people. You know
that your songs mean things to people, or that you
mean something to people, even if you don't always see them,
And getting to hear those stories from those people is
(27:54):
always the most fulfilling thing. It just like fills my
tank up. It just like puts everything into perspective for
me again. And I think that's why I'm still doing
this and why I want to continue doing it is
because of those people, you know, and it's just so nice,
Like I've heard so many amazing stories. I've heard so
many stories of people who you know, were like closeted
that have you know that my music has like helped
(28:16):
them come to terms with that and has helped them
come out to their families. You know, people have come
out to me for the first time before they've told
people in their lives because they've felt like they could
trust me. You know. That's always super inspiring. That There's
this older woman one time that came up to me
and said, if I had your music when I was younger,
and she was like in her eighties. She said, if
(28:36):
I had your music when I was younger, I would
have been president. And I always thought that was like
the coolest thing that anyone's ever said to me. So yeah,
like things like that just mean the most and it's
just the most incredible feeling to know that. And yeah,
that's that's what keeps me doing it, you know, and
helps me shut the rest out.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's amazing how music can so powerfully affect people.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's like our ancient one of our ancient things. And
I think it's tied to how the artist is a channel,
if you will, and in order I think for the
artists to be the channel, you have to develop like rituals,
you have to develop your own space, your own sense
of safety. I think, could you talk about how you
(29:32):
know the things that you've discovered over the years, perhaps
of rituals which is kind of a weird word, but
you know, just different processes that has helped you in
your creative process and just music.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
Yeah, I guess because I've traveled so much, I think
like I've had I've had to learn how to be
able to write in like different settings. And it's kind
of hard to maintain a ritual because I do kind
of write all over the place. But I think like
mentally emotionally, the ritual for me is just always like
leading with no judgment, which has been very hard for
me because I tend to be a very shy writer,
(30:08):
and in the past, like I was so scared of
like writing in front of other people or producers for
fear of wasting their time with a bad idea or
you know, them thinking that I'm like not good enough.
There's always this like sense of like having to prove myself.
And I think for this album, what I really did
was like just walk in with the sentiment that like
anything goes. Throw pain at the canvas, throw darts at
(30:31):
the board, just see what happens. And when you kind
of like take that judgment out of it, or like
even take yourself out of it, like just thinking like
this isn't even about me, Like there's there are ideas
kind of over us. Let's just try to catch one
like it's not on me. You know. I think that
that just like helps me be a more free writer
when I kind of go in with without that, And yeah,
(30:54):
I think that's the only kind of ritual that I have,
is just like starting with that in mind, and then
everything else I just kind of try to adapt to
whatever environment. I'm pretty lucky that way where I can
kind of write in different different settings just because I've
had to. You know, I've written on the road, I've
written in the most weird places. And then I guess,
(31:16):
just like rituals just for life outside of creativity, I
just try to like implement self care as much as possible,
little moments to myself, you know, putting my headphones on
and just like listening to music, having little moments, little
pockets of time to myself, because you know, doing this
for a living, you find that you're not often alone,
You're kind of always around people all the time. So
(31:36):
just finding those little moments of escape to like process
what is going on in my head and what I
even want to say, or you know, how I'm feeling
that day, those things are really important to me too.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Well, I am curious because I asked you about John.
I love that dude.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I've known him for years, and he also, besides being
such a cool guy, is so smart musically. He will
geek out on like the craziest stuff. So what advice
or like things did you learn from him that helped
you both because he has dealt with insane levels of fame,
but also just know so much music. So is there
(32:12):
one song that he like turned you onto or.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
You know, I mean we talk about a lot of music.
One song that he uh, well, like this was like
I want to say, twenty twenty sixteen. I like hopped
on stage with him one time. He had like this
little like he was doing this dive bar tour and
he hopped on I hopped on stage with him and
we did an air kabad Do cover. So we talked
(32:35):
a lot about her. Who else have we talked about
in the past? He talked about like Jay Dilla, cool producers, D'Angelo,
and I mean, I've learned a lot from him, just
even like with songwriting. He told me one time, he said,
you know, like that there were a few of his songs,
like some of his biggest songs that ended up blowing
up he thought originally were just like B side songs
(32:56):
because he felt like they were too simple or too boring,
And are the songs that like connect with people the most.
And so he told me like, if you you know,
likely if if you have a lyric that you think
is boring or a song that you think is too simple,
that's probably the one that's gonna hit because people want
that people like. The things that people resonate with are
things that they can understand. And I think as writers
we can relate to the fact that sometimes we try
(33:17):
to impress ourselves when we write. We try to say
things in the most poetic way, which is great for us.
It helps our ego when we crack the code. But
I think, you know, what he was saying is like,
don't try to impress yourself, just say the thing, you know.
And I think that that's something that I've carried with me.
You know, he told me that in like twenty sixteen.
I've carried that since on every project I've ever written since.
You know, stop trying and impress yourself. Just say the
(33:39):
thing that's always like his voice is always in my
mind there, And it's true, It really is true. That's
the stuff that hits people the most is when you
just say it plainly and openly, you know, instead of
trying to disguise it with metaphor all the time. And
like that. That stuff is cool too, The little artistic
self indulgent side is cool too. But I think saying
the thing is the thing that you know gets into
(34:01):
the core of people.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Well, that's what makes the best writing.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
And we're gonna have to wrap up in a second,
but quickly, is there one song on this album where
you feel like you achieved that that you're really proud
of that, because always that is the hardest thing to do,
you know, and unless you're like John Lennon did that amazingly,
you know, we just have that simplistic thing. So for you,
was there one song on Salbo where you're like, I
nailed it?
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Hmm? I mean I tried to do that on all
of them. There's a song called Fire that I really
really love, and I feel like I did that with
a lot of the lyrics. I just kind of like
said how I was feeling. I mean, there's still some
metaphor in there too, but yeah, I don't know. I
feel like that song is like super simple in a
(34:47):
way that I probably would have tried to like disguise
or fill up in the past. I really just left
a lot of space in it, and I'm so glad
because I think that's what makes it good, you know,
And I think that's what makes it emotional. Is is
just like leaving room for a space, letting people think
and breathe a little bit, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Cool. Was there anything that you want to add you
did not ask you about?
Speaker 4 (35:11):
No, I think that's everything. I'm going on tour. I
guess I should probably say that. The team's probably like
mention the tour. So I'm going on tour in the spring.
We're going to North America, Europe, hitting Australia, Asia, places
I've never toured before, so that's going to be really exciting.
And yeah, that's it, I think.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Cool. Well, thank you so much for the time. This
is a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (35:34):
Thank you. Thank you both so much for your thoughtful questions.
This is awesome. I appreciate it.
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