April 23, 2025 • 34 mins
On this week's In Service Of cohosts Steve Baltin and Sage Bava are joined by G-Eazy who talks about his new album and tour, meditation, the film Requiem for a Dream and much more.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, it's Steve Balton and welcome to in Service up
where this week's stage, Bob and I are joined by
g Easy. I've been friends with Ge for a long
time now, so really fun interview about his current tour,
the upcoming album Meditation, and so much more. I hope
you enjoyed this one as much. Immediate Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
First of all, thanks for being on the podcast. It's
always great to see you. I was a little concerned
about you with this album in a good way. I
love this record, but it is some dark shit and
I was like trying to find the right analogy for it,
and I was like, what's a musical analogy? And then
the one that came to mind is a great compliment
because it's an Oscar Worthy movie. We're Quiem for a Dream.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Wowee, Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I love this album though, but I love the fact
that it's like honest, but that last song, especially in
fucking Fight, I was like, dude, are you all right?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Which which one naked vampire? Oh? Vampires? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I mean, you know, it's funny you bring up recorden
for a Dream Darren Ananovski. That movie, it's such a
powerful film. I remember the first time I saw it,
and I was like, this is the most beautifully powerful
film I've ever seen in my life, and I can
only see it once every ten years.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I love Jennifer Palley, Jared Letto is a good friend.
I still have only seen it once because that's I mean,
it's dark.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
It's it's so it's so dark, but it's so powerful
that you don't want to like numb the power of
the movie and the magnitude of it. But it's it's
funny you bring it up because I was just thinking
of the score Clint Mansell did and during COVID, when
(02:04):
I was in my experimental phase, I took that leap.
And when you sample something or or you know, write
a song or try an idea, that's the one idea
that you can only do once you handle with care.
(02:25):
And and yeah, it was it was kind of a
spiritual night that I wrote a song over the score
of of.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Brekflin for a Dream.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
And I was having a conversation with a friend last
night and I brought up that song and I hadn't
thought of it, and it's near So it's crazy interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Well, I mean, it's funny because when you talk to
people of course, you know, and you and I've known
each other for years, that's the time you're way more
influenced by things outside of music. So is there like
a lot of cinema influence or literature or art influence
on this album?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, like like a song
is limited to to three and a half minutes, you know,
and and and the words within the song after rhyme
and and fit a melody that that that follows the
core progression and makes the essence of the song.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It's so it's it's a constricted confine in which as
a medium to tell the story through. And I think
it's it's it's a beautiful medium because to work within
a limited space and be able to express and convey
so much through you know, that challenge creates a beautiful realm.
(03:51):
But I'm also very much in love with literature and
film because you have, you know, three hundred pages or
you have an hour and a half to two hours
of space to develop character and have an arc.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Of you know, story and this, that and the other.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So what were some of the books and films that
were like really on your mind when you And It's
funny because stage and I talk about this with people
all the time. So much of writing is subconscious, so
then you don't even necessarily notice the influences until after
it's done, and then you go back and you hear
it and you're like, oh shit, yeah, that's like Nick Cave,
who I'm fucking obsessed with. He's the best. He said that,
(04:35):
you know, a year and a half later he'll be
on stage and be like, Oh that's what that means.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, yeah, And I think it's a continuum. You know,
you keep trying to to search and seek for, you know,
the essence of what you're trying to express, the essence
of what you've experienced in your life, and the essence
of what you're able to turn that into to your
(05:00):
art and to your medium. I think there's there's numerous
times where I've tried to make the same song, and
I think most artists have also done that. But you
keep chipping away at at you know, you get closer
and closer or maybe sometimes you know at at trying
to to to make.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
The perfect portrayal of of what you're trying to express.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
What's really funny you say that, let's say shake over
one second, But I was an English major in school,
and there's a train of thought, as in literature that
as an author, you're always writing the same book. You're
just trying to get it right. So what is the
song that you feel you've always tried to?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Was the only class I ever got always in the
same with me, not that I got anything closer to
the always in anything else it was, it was always
are all the opposite, but English I was always I did.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I saw that.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Waits all your favorite books then quickly and then yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The unbearable lightness of being.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I think there's a there's a reference of that to
the album Helium Cherry Catspy.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
So on this album, what is the one song, what's
the closest to you were coming to? That one song
you're trying to make.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I'm fighting a sample clearance, should try get it to
make the album? To me, it represents a huge part
of the essence of the thesis and concepts of the album.
Whether or not I'll be able to clear the sample,
whether or not the world will understand it if it
(06:54):
if it does clear, and whether or not it fits
within the scope of Gas as we know it is
yet to be determined. But to me, it's one of
the most important songs I've written. It's called Naked.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Yeah, I'd love to nerd out a bit on the
relationship between samples and storytelling and how one influences the
other and vice versa. That process for you, of like
discerning what stories make this album, I'm sure was very
much in relationship to what samples made the album. Could
(07:38):
you talk a bit about that process for you and
if that differed from the past albums.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, Well, the essence and the origins of this art
form of hip hop, you know, come from sampling and
interpolating and you know, taking taking bits of songs and
you know, piecing them together and making something uniquely.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Original out of.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
The re piecing together of different elements of different worlds
of music. The interesting thing about sampling, if you're going
to use a chorus or you know, because you have to,
you have to find a sound bite, a piece of
(08:35):
a song that represents the essence of what you could
express through your verses, that sums it up shortly, you know,
like like if because because the lyric of chorus is
much more concise than the words of verses, and hip
(08:55):
hop there's you know, many more words and much more duration,
but to find something that represents the essence of an
idea and then to be able to elaborate it through
versus and build out a whole song and interpret something
(09:17):
that may not have ever been interpreted through that lens
and take it into a different scope and put drums
and different protection behind it.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Earlier, you mentioned like having these spiritual moments of writing
the songs, and that's something that we love to talk
about on this podcast, is like being in service of
something larger than oneself, and that seems to be a
theme for many artists. Do you think that this album
kind of illuminated more of what that means to you
(09:55):
or it just kind of honed what you already what
you already thought your core is that you want to share.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Well, I think, hmmm, this this thing I've like fallen
in love with as a kid, and that I'm fortunate
enough to still be in love with the creation of music,
the process, this thing that brings me joy, This this
beautiful thing that happens. You know, I get to go
(10:25):
into a room and I've spent the majority of my
adolescens into adulthood into you know, having a specific set
of like skills and abilities to make song and to
get to watch it happen and to feel it happened,
(10:46):
because because no matter how good you are technique wise,
the song is still a magical thing.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
You can't like control.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It's it's it's not math, it's not you know, it's
it's a special secret magic. It's it's hard, it's and
but to get to go into the studios and to
get to write and to get to watch a song
come together, it is the closest thing I'll ever have
to you know.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That's that's the creation of life.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
That's It's funny, though, do you appreciate it in different ways?
You get older? Because I love what you're saying, because
two years ago, last year, two years ago, I interview
Mike Soler. Dude's ninety years old. He co wrote stand
By Me, probably the greatest fucking song of all time.
He co wrote jail House Rock. And we were talking
(11:41):
about songwriting and he's like, no one knows where songwrites
come from ninety years old. And he's like, I have.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
No clue because I've ever been in God.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So for you, it's funny as a writer, what have
been those moments or what were those moments on this
album where you feltless to God where you're like, okay,
because you know, as a writer, you hit peaks and
you know you're always trying to do your best work.
But there are those moments where you're just like, you know,
like for Keith Richard's Dreaming Satisfaction or you know, Jimmy
(12:13):
Cliff told me romany rivers crossing ten minutes, walk into
the subway. Yeah, you know, they're just those moments where
God touches you and it's like, all right, dude, here's
a great song.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah. Yeah, up.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
There was a couple of days because I mean it
was it was a it was a great experience working
with one producer and and doing the whole album and
in one studio and having like a discipline and a
and a like like a like a rigid routine of
(12:48):
you know, like this is a job. But there was
two occasions where you know, lightning strikes me and I
could be at a party, I could be dinner, I
could be anywhere. But when I get that idea, anything
and everything can wait, and suddenly I'd like just the
(13:08):
world just slows down and I just and it's there
and I have to get this like and I have
to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And that happened twice.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
And I spent those two nights, in those two occasions
writing out as much as I could of the whole
idea while that frequency was open. And I came into
the studio both those next days and I said to Rodya,
the producer, Hey, don't hate me, but we have to
(13:38):
pause all the order operations and the things we were doing,
because this song has to happen, Like hear me out.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
That's fascinating to me. Do you remember the first time
that happened to you when then you have that first
sort of lightning strikes moment and where you were, because
at that moment you may not know exactly what's happening,
just like you know you're in the middle of I
don't know, a fucking random party.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I was at it.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
I was at a Yeah, I was at a house
party and I was probably thirteen, and I was I
was dancing with a girl and and little John and
and was playing like you know, maybe like Ying Yang's Wings.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Little John something.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But but the eight away, the drum pattern, the frequencies,
everything hit me and it was like, wow, that's the
pattern of the like and and and like velocity of
the kid drum and the collapse and the and the
and the patterns and the drums and everything, and.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And it was just electric. It was it was like wow, like.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Yeah, and I think I try to like make beats
for the next like two weeks to that same drum pattern.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
It's interesting trying to harness that, maybe especially through the
craziness of you know, all the things that you've been
through with the highs and those of fame. And I
so appreciate it of how raw you are. It's like
such an empowering thing, even though it is very dark.
As we were saying, it's like empowering to be in
(15:20):
that raw space both maybe friend for listener, but it's
it's interesting to talk to people about like how they
harness that from the lightning striking to actually recording to
actually you know, getting it out there. Like there's a
lot of things that happen in the in between. And
I'm curious if you are into meditating, if you have
(15:43):
kind of rituals that allow you to transfer that energy
into the writing, to the production to the then performing.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
There's probably tools and methods that I could be using
that would help me I lean into impulse and the
chaos and the passion and the like the moment. But
it's just it's it is the most electric thing, and
(16:15):
when I feel it, it's just all right, gosh, it's
the most It's the best feeling in my life. And
I get so excited to go try to get the
idea down, and I'm just happy that something in my
life gives me that much excitement to feel.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
That's really interesting. Was there a point for you when
you because look, you talked about feelings for the first
time at thirteen. We have talked about this with so
many artists. You have to at some point recommit because like,
what you want to do when you're thirteen isn't necessarily
what you want to do when you're thirty. So was
there a home for you where we fell in love
with this or you knew, okay, this is lifelong for me.
(17:04):
This wasn't just you know, let's face it, also, when
you're a kid and you're doing it half the time,
you're doing it just to meet girls or because you
think it's gonna be cool or whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I mean, there was there was a turning point where
I mean I was in there riding BMX when I
was like in middle school eleven twelve, thirteen, and I
was really really obsessed with in that like bikes. I
would you know, like I would build bikes from you know,
(17:33):
part by part, like build brams, go to home depot,
get plywood. I had a toolbox thirteen years old, building
quarter pipes and ramps, and I was filming BMX videos
and edit them and then that turned into music around
(17:55):
the time I like had broken the bone like the
third time, and I was like I'm kind of over
this and like I think like I'm kind of more
into the music thing, and and it's like it just
it like the relationship with a computer, I think is
(18:15):
something that like for a lonely outsider, a kid who
never really fits in anywhere completely and finds solace at
a computer, at a process, at a you know, at
a station, is is the thing. And you know, like
I could sit there for hours and and and play
(18:36):
with the pocket of like a drum pattern and nudging
the high hat to the right and finding that like
like that like like pocket and that like bounce, and
it's it was something that was rewarding.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
It would talk back to me, that would fulfill me.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
That, you know, and I'd get lost in it and
I would sit there for hours and hours and make
beads and you know, record ideas. And then the flip
side is, you know, publishing these ideas, sharing them and
not getting that reward back and oh go ahead, sorry,
(19:18):
that's that's where the like the reality kind of sunk
in of like, yeah, this is you're in love with something.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
But that's a passion. You know, people have hobbies.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
And and as it turned into an obsessive hobby as
an obsessive passion and a dedication to the craft and
to finding a way to make it work, the more
and more and more like given the day and age
(19:52):
as I was coming up in where.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
You get instant like instant.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
You know, response of if it's valid or not the
way you see it, you know, like refreshing plays on
soundclouds and it's it went from twenty eight to thirty
and one of them was you.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Dude. That is fascinating to me though, because I was
friends with Chris Cornell and Chris and I talked about this,
and Chris is a guy who you look at on
the surface and he should have fit in anywhere in
this fucking world. Guy was like the Greek god, best
voice ever. And he talked about the fact that his
whole fame came from being an outcast. So for you,
at what point did you start to feel like you
(20:37):
fit in a little bit? Or was it always as
a kid that you just never did and like the
music became an escape, because Chris talked about the fact
that for him, you know, all great lead singers were outcasts.
They may be the coolest people in the world when
they're older, but when the kids.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Nowhere, Yeah, I didn't fit in anywhere. I think a
turning point hit when I realized I was handsome. Straight up,
I didn't know that. I didn't never think that. I
didn't embrace that. I didn't think that I could be
the front guy at the league, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
What I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
And I was like, no, I'm I'm tall and handsome,
and I'm dedicated as the fuck and I want this
and and there will always always always be the outsider,
the insecure, like the shy, like you know, not feeling anywhere,
the awkward you know inside of that. But I embraced
(21:43):
for the first time that I could be a confident
quarterback like and and I just I just hugged it, Like, yeah,
I think.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
It's really interesting being like talking about how you discovered
your sound and how you discovered this vibe and this
confidence and then you know, you just became it. You
hugged it. And I know your fans are really excited
to hear this album and have it be a bit
more like you know, when you were first coming out
(22:20):
with that that sound. Can you talk about discovering that
sound and if there was like an aha moment of
like this is it or it was just kind of
this long process of continuously you know, making that statue
of out of marble.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, I mean the the unished.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
The answer is that it's a long process of making
a statue out of marble. But there was an aha
moment to the process of making this record and doing
this album with Dye McDonald, who's an incredible producer.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It was the first time in this way.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
And this is not a slight to anybody else that
worked with but often the hip hop it's like speed dating.
You do a session with one producer and then that's
one day and they open the folder of beats and
that's you know, make a song on the spot.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
You know, that's.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
This process of this album is like a very involved
all hands on deck, all like.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
All in every every every inch of the album.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
And and dye like, I mean, my first time working
with somebody with credits like he did it Della's first album,
he did, the Xexis first album he did like he
signed these people to excel. He and he's that accomplished
(23:54):
and experienced and and and working with somebody who would
challenge dreaming who I'd respond to the challenge because it
was the way he'd articulate challenges was like he'd be like, Gee,
(24:15):
this is not.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Gee.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
I know you want to sing. You don't have a
great singing course. We don't really want to hear you
sing this course. I know you want to sing this course,
but the chorus is not asking for you to sing it.
But I've been thinking on this, and the thing is,
(24:39):
your voice reminds me of somebody's who I know you admire,
Leonard Cohen.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
When you speak in this low tone.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Leonard Cohen couldn't hit those notes, but he would have
accompaniment of other vocalists sing the hard melodies behind him.
How about we approach it that way.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I'd never been pushed a coach like that. Before, and
I tried it.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Instead of trying to sing chorus that I couldn't sing,
I tried to sing it low in that voice and
it worked.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I loved that.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
The reference to you Want and darker. I was like, no,
it's all coming together.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
That was it. That was the song.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Where. So I know the tours in like two weeks.
What are you most looking forward to doing live?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Uh? Fargo, North Dakota. No, I meant one song wise, dude, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Mean it's Fargo, a great city for you. It's random sometimes,
how like they are the weirdest cities that are like
people's favorite places to play.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, I mean the show honestly, is is so special
as it is, and it's so dialed in. Having not
toured for over six years, you know, imagine all that
energy between the fans, between you know, me and the band,
(26:22):
you know, getting back on these stages, being forty plus
shows in fifteen countries. It's it's a well oiled machine
and it feels so good getting back to what we do.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Have you been doing much of the new hablave yet?
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Not not as much yet, But I'm really excited to
play fight fuck.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Well.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
We started off talking about the fact that to me
it was dark and I love that. I think it
was great for you when you go back and listen
to it. Other things on this record that surprise you
that you know, like Weekend and we talked about the
lightning striking and you can hear it and be like,
oh should I didn't know I was thinking that or whatever?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
You know. I mean, I think After Dark is maybe
that record. You know, it's it. It hits deep on
a lot of layers.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Psychologically, you know, I kind of related to Baby Reindeer.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
The show.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
I think that one is going to be one of
the most complex and and it won't necessarily It's like
the wrapping my feelings around it and the feelings of
it won't necessary the immediate.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, again, that goes back to what Nick was saying
about a year and a half later, you'll be on
stage buck Anita Franco Tobin took her twenty years to
figure someth shit out. So maybe you know you'll be
on stage when you're fifty five and you'll be like,
a shit, that's what that meant. Yeah, Well, you know,
I love the record. I think it's great, and you know,
(28:25):
I think what's cool too, is last time we talked,
we talked about you going in different directions and extending yourself.
And even though this is going back in the way,
I don't feel like it's giving up on that. I
feel like this is a real merging of where you've
been the last few years and kind of tying that
in with your older stuff. Do you feel that that
this is like sort of just gerald in your entirety
(28:46):
now at this point in your life.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
No matter where you are right there? No, this is
this is a journey, This is waking life. This is
you know, like it's an ongoing process of you know,
this is the expression of human experience, you know, through
(29:11):
through art. But I think it represents the maturation.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Of where I'm at, And.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
You know, when you go through things in life as
an artist, it would almost be a disservice not to
write those into.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Into your work.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
And it's it's an expression of of where I'm at
right now, what I've been.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
To Oh, we only have a few minutes off on zoom.
Is there anything you want to add that we didn't
ask about?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But is this is this going to be like cut up?
I can I ask you a question shure go for it.
Do you think it's missing anything?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
All, Now I really like it. I really like sort
of depth of it, and I like the fact is
yet it feels very honest to me, and that, to me,
is the most important thing in music, even less than sound.
The lyric saiting thing is just like if you feel
like when you're hearing an artist talk about where they're
at in life, that's it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
I love the human expression and to me, like it
brings a new perspective on it. It really feels like
a tapestry of human expression. I love listening to how
it all fits together. I wanted to ask about the
collaborations because I'm sure that you know when you're piecing
all these different parts together, like that's a massive part
of it. Was there a favorite story or a favorite
(30:48):
moment within all the collaborations for this album?
Speaker 4 (30:53):
It really wasn't collaboration like it was all like that.
It was just a chre just me you Goody Grace
and a Jesse. But there was one moment, and it's
the post chorus of five fuck.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
The uh uh uh.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
And and getting readyah to like take out the amp
that he used for the Xx's first album, and I
was like, give.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Me do the thing, do the trick show me like.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Because that first XX album was so iconic and so
important in my life. And being with the architect, the designer,
the producer, the guy who you know, like directed that
whole project, I was like, I need, given that I
get this chance to work with you into an album,
(31:49):
I need you to do the thing.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Like I want, like Michael Jordan to put a bulls jersey.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
On and stick his tongue out and dunk like and
and and doing that post chorus on fight fuck With
and and having those vocals in the background, and that
process of building that post chorus on Fight FuG It
(32:15):
was like a completion full circle, over a decade later,
of a body of work that's meant so much to
me and getting into work with the producer who made
it and get to.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You know, and there's been.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Multiple times through my career from far a loan that
I've emulated the tone of the guitar to to imitate
early XX. So to get to be with the person
who came up with it and see the amps that
they used and record that part.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That was.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, No, that's fucking awesome, and it's really cool too,
because I'm just looking at the track listing again and
it's like the fact that you can go from vampires
to Nada. No, it really covers the whole thing, so
I don't feel like it's missing anything. But unfortunately, I
have like a minute left on the zoom. So anything
you want to add or.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Do, drive your phone number now. I'm gonna send you
a sign.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah, send it to me, dude. I'd love to hear it.
And you know it's always good to catch up anyway,
so yeah, you can hear me up anytime. All right, man,
We'll see you later on great seeing it, Okay, cool,
Hey, it's Steve Balton and welcome to in Service up
where this week's stage, Bob and I are joined by
g Easy. I've been friends with Ge for a long
time now, so really fun interview about his current tour,
the upcoming album Meditation, and so much more. I hope
you enjoyed this one as much. Immediate Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
First of all, thanks for being on the podcast. It's
always great to see you. I was a little concerned
about you with this album in a good way. I
love this record, but it is some dark shit and
I was like trying to find the right analogy for it,
and I was like, what's a musical analogy? And then
the one that came to mind is a great compliment
because it's an Oscar Worthy movie. We're Quiem for a Dream.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Wowee, Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I love this album though, but I love the fact
that it's like honest, but that last song, especially in
fucking Fight, I was like, dude, are you all right?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Which which one naked vampire? Oh? Vampires? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I mean, you know, it's funny you bring up recorden
for a Dream Darren Ananovski. That movie, it's such a
powerful film. I remember the first time I saw it,
and I was like, this is the most beautifully powerful
film I've ever seen in my life, and I can
only see it once every ten years.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
I love Jennifer Palley, Jared Letto is a good friend.
I still have only seen it once because that's I mean,
it's dark.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
It's it's so it's so dark, but it's so powerful
that you don't want to like numb the power of
the movie and the magnitude of it. But it's it's
funny you bring it up because I was just thinking
of the score Clint Mansell did and during COVID, when
(02:04):
I was in my experimental phase, I took that leap.
And when you sample something or or you know, write
a song or try an idea, that's the one idea
that you can only do once you handle with care.
(02:25):
And and yeah, it was it was kind of a
spiritual night that I wrote a song over the score
of of.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Brekflin for a Dream.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
And I was having a conversation with a friend last
night and I brought up that song and I hadn't
thought of it, and it's near So it's crazy interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Well, I mean, it's funny because when you talk to
people of course, you know, and you and I've known
each other for years, that's the time you're way more
influenced by things outside of music. So is there like
a lot of cinema influence or literature or art influence
on this album?
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, like like a song
is limited to to three and a half minutes, you know,
and and and the words within the song after rhyme
and and fit a melody that that that follows the
core progression and makes the essence of the song.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It's so it's it's a constricted confine in which as
a medium to tell the story through. And I think
it's it's it's a beautiful medium because to work within
a limited space and be able to express and convey
so much through you know, that challenge creates a beautiful realm.
(03:51):
But I'm also very much in love with literature and
film because you have, you know, three hundred pages or
you have an hour and a half to two hours
of space to develop character and have an arc.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Of you know, story and this, that and the other.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
So what were some of the books and films that
were like really on your mind when you And It's
funny because stage and I talk about this with people
all the time. So much of writing is subconscious, so
then you don't even necessarily notice the influences until after
it's done, and then you go back and you hear
it and you're like, oh shit, yeah, that's like Nick Cave,
who I'm fucking obsessed with. He's the best. He said that,
(04:35):
you know, a year and a half later he'll be
on stage and be like, Oh that's what that means.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Yeah, yeah, And I think it's a continuum. You know,
you keep trying to to search and seek for, you know,
the essence of what you're trying to express, the essence
of what you've experienced in your life, and the essence
of what you're able to turn that into to your
(05:00):
art and to your medium. I think there's there's numerous
times where I've tried to make the same song, and
I think most artists have also done that. But you
keep chipping away at at you know, you get closer
and closer or maybe sometimes you know at at trying
to to to make.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
The perfect portrayal of of what you're trying to express.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
What's really funny you say that, let's say shake over
one second, But I was an English major in school,
and there's a train of thought, as in literature that
as an author, you're always writing the same book. You're
just trying to get it right. So what is the
song that you feel you've always tried to?
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Was the only class I ever got always in the
same with me, not that I got anything closer to
the always in anything else it was, it was always
are all the opposite, but English I was always I did.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I saw that.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Waits all your favorite books then quickly and then yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
The unbearable lightness of being.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I think there's a there's a reference of that to
the album Helium Cherry Catspy.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
So on this album, what is the one song, what's
the closest to you were coming to? That one song
you're trying to make.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I'm fighting a sample clearance, should try get it to
make the album? To me, it represents a huge part
of the essence of the thesis and concepts of the album.
Whether or not I'll be able to clear the sample,
whether or not the world will understand it if it
(06:54):
if it does clear, and whether or not it fits
within the scope of Gas as we know it is
yet to be determined. But to me, it's one of
the most important songs I've written. It's called Naked.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Yeah, I'd love to nerd out a bit on the
relationship between samples and storytelling and how one influences the
other and vice versa. That process for you, of like
discerning what stories make this album, I'm sure was very
much in relationship to what samples made the album. Could
(07:38):
you talk a bit about that process for you and
if that differed from the past albums.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, Well, the essence and the origins of this art
form of hip hop, you know, come from sampling and
interpolating and you know, taking taking bits of songs and
you know, piecing them together and making something uniquely.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Original out of.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
The re piecing together of different elements of different worlds
of music. The interesting thing about sampling, if you're going
to use a chorus or you know, because you have to,
you have to find a sound bite, a piece of
(08:35):
a song that represents the essence of what you could
express through your verses, that sums it up shortly, you know,
like like if because because the lyric of chorus is
much more concise than the words of verses, and hip
(08:55):
hop there's you know, many more words and much more duration,
but to find something that represents the essence of an
idea and then to be able to elaborate it through
versus and build out a whole song and interpret something
(09:17):
that may not have ever been interpreted through that lens
and take it into a different scope and put drums
and different protection behind it.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Earlier, you mentioned like having these spiritual moments of writing
the songs, and that's something that we love to talk
about on this podcast, is like being in service of
something larger than oneself, and that seems to be a
theme for many artists. Do you think that this album
kind of illuminated more of what that means to you
(09:55):
or it just kind of honed what you already what
you already thought your core is that you want to share.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Well, I think, hmmm, this this thing I've like fallen
in love with as a kid, and that I'm fortunate
enough to still be in love with the creation of music,
the process, this thing that brings me joy, This this
beautiful thing that happens. You know, I get to go
(10:25):
into a room and I've spent the majority of my
adolescens into adulthood into you know, having a specific set
of like skills and abilities to make song and to
get to watch it happen and to feel it happened,
(10:46):
because because no matter how good you are technique wise,
the song is still a magical thing.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
You can't like control.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It's it's it's not math, it's not you know, it's
it's a special secret magic. It's it's hard, it's and
but to get to go into the studios and to
get to write and to get to watch a song
come together, it is the closest thing I'll ever have
to you know.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
That's that's the creation of life.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
That's It's funny, though, do you appreciate it in different ways?
You get older? Because I love what you're saying, because
two years ago, last year, two years ago, I interview
Mike Soler. Dude's ninety years old. He co wrote stand
By Me, probably the greatest fucking song of all time.
He co wrote jail House Rock. And we were talking
(11:41):
about songwriting and he's like, no one knows where songwrites
come from ninety years old. And he's like, I have.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
No clue because I've ever been in God.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So for you, it's funny as a writer, what have
been those moments or what were those moments on this
album where you feltless to God where you're like, okay,
because you know, as a writer, you hit peaks and
you know you're always trying to do your best work.
But there are those moments where you're just like, you know,
like for Keith Richard's Dreaming Satisfaction or you know, Jimmy
(12:13):
Cliff told me romany rivers crossing ten minutes, walk into
the subway. Yeah, you know, they're just those moments where
God touches you and it's like, all right, dude, here's
a great song.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah. Yeah, up.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
There was a couple of days because I mean it
was it was a it was a great experience working
with one producer and and doing the whole album and
in one studio and having like a discipline and a
and a like like a like a rigid routine of
(12:48):
you know, like this is a job. But there was
two occasions where you know, lightning strikes me and I
could be at a party, I could be dinner, I
could be anywhere. But when I get that idea, anything
and everything can wait, and suddenly I'd like just the
(13:08):
world just slows down and I just and it's there
and I have to get this like and I have
to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And that happened twice.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
And I spent those two nights, in those two occasions
writing out as much as I could of the whole
idea while that frequency was open. And I came into
the studio both those next days and I said to Rodya,
the producer, Hey, don't hate me, but we have to
(13:38):
pause all the order operations and the things we were doing,
because this song has to happen, Like hear me out.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
That's fascinating to me. Do you remember the first time
that happened to you when then you have that first
sort of lightning strikes moment and where you were, because
at that moment you may not know exactly what's happening,
just like you know you're in the middle of I
don't know, a fucking random party.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I was at it.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
I was at a Yeah, I was at a house
party and I was probably thirteen, and I was I
was dancing with a girl and and little John and
and was playing like you know, maybe like Ying Yang's Wings.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Little John something.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But but the eight away, the drum pattern, the frequencies,
everything hit me and it was like, wow, that's the
pattern of the like and and and like velocity of
the kid drum and the collapse and the and the
and the patterns and the drums and everything, and.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
And it was just electric. It was it was like wow, like.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Yeah, and I think I try to like make beats
for the next like two weeks to that same drum pattern.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
It's interesting trying to harness that, maybe especially through the
craziness of you know, all the things that you've been
through with the highs and those of fame. And I
so appreciate it of how raw you are. It's like
such an empowering thing, even though it is very dark.
As we were saying, it's like empowering to be in
(15:20):
that raw space both maybe friend for listener, but it's
it's interesting to talk to people about like how they
harness that from the lightning striking to actually recording to
actually you know, getting it out there. Like there's a
lot of things that happen in the in between. And
I'm curious if you are into meditating, if you have
(15:43):
kind of rituals that allow you to transfer that energy
into the writing, to the production to the then performing.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
There's probably tools and methods that I could be using
that would help me I lean into impulse and the
chaos and the passion and the like the moment. But
it's just it's it is the most electric thing, and
(16:15):
when I feel it, it's just all right, gosh, it's
the most It's the best feeling in my life. And
I get so excited to go try to get the
idea down, and I'm just happy that something in my
life gives me that much excitement to feel.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
That's really interesting. Was there a point for you when
you because look, you talked about feelings for the first
time at thirteen. We have talked about this with so
many artists. You have to at some point recommit because like,
what you want to do when you're thirteen isn't necessarily
what you want to do when you're thirty. So was
there a home for you where we fell in love
with this or you knew, okay, this is lifelong for me.
(17:04):
This wasn't just you know, let's face it, also, when
you're a kid and you're doing it half the time,
you're doing it just to meet girls or because you
think it's gonna be cool or whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I mean, there was there was a turning point where
I mean I was in there riding BMX when I
was like in middle school eleven twelve, thirteen, and I
was really really obsessed with in that like bikes. I
would you know, like I would build bikes from you know,
(17:33):
part by part, like build brams, go to home depot,
get plywood. I had a toolbox thirteen years old, building
quarter pipes and ramps, and I was filming BMX videos
and edit them and then that turned into music around
(17:55):
the time I like had broken the bone like the
third time, and I was like I'm kind of over
this and like I think like I'm kind of more
into the music thing, and and it's like it just
it like the relationship with a computer, I think is
(18:15):
something that like for a lonely outsider, a kid who
never really fits in anywhere completely and finds solace at
a computer, at a process, at a you know, at
a station, is is the thing. And you know, like
I could sit there for hours and and and play
(18:36):
with the pocket of like a drum pattern and nudging
the high hat to the right and finding that like
like that like like pocket and that like bounce, and
it's it was something that was rewarding.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
It would talk back to me, that would fulfill me.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
That, you know, and I'd get lost in it and
I would sit there for hours and hours and make
beads and you know, record ideas. And then the flip
side is, you know, publishing these ideas, sharing them and
not getting that reward back and oh go ahead, sorry,
(19:18):
that's that's where the like the reality kind of sunk
in of like, yeah, this is you're in love with something.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
But that's a passion. You know, people have hobbies.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
And and as it turned into an obsessive hobby as
an obsessive passion and a dedication to the craft and
to finding a way to make it work, the more
and more and more like given the day and age
(19:52):
as I was coming up in where.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
You get instant like instant.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
You know, response of if it's valid or not the
way you see it, you know, like refreshing plays on
soundclouds and it's it went from twenty eight to thirty
and one of them was you.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Dude. That is fascinating to me though, because I was
friends with Chris Cornell and Chris and I talked about this,
and Chris is a guy who you look at on
the surface and he should have fit in anywhere in
this fucking world. Guy was like the Greek god, best
voice ever. And he talked about the fact that his
whole fame came from being an outcast. So for you,
at what point did you start to feel like you
(20:37):
fit in a little bit? Or was it always as
a kid that you just never did and like the
music became an escape, because Chris talked about the fact
that for him, you know, all great lead singers were outcasts.
They may be the coolest people in the world when
they're older, but when the kids.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Nowhere, Yeah, I didn't fit in anywhere. I think a
turning point hit when I realized I was handsome. Straight up,
I didn't know that. I didn't never think that. I
didn't embrace that. I didn't think that I could be
the front guy at the league, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
What I mean.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
And I was like, no, I'm I'm tall and handsome,
and I'm dedicated as the fuck and I want this
and and there will always always always be the outsider,
the insecure, like the shy, like you know, not feeling anywhere,
the awkward you know inside of that. But I embraced
(21:43):
for the first time that I could be a confident
quarterback like and and I just I just hugged it, Like, yeah,
I think.
Speaker 5 (21:59):
It's really interesting being like talking about how you discovered
your sound and how you discovered this vibe and this
confidence and then you know, you just became it. You
hugged it. And I know your fans are really excited
to hear this album and have it be a bit
more like you know, when you were first coming out
(22:20):
with that that sound. Can you talk about discovering that
sound and if there was like an aha moment of
like this is it or it was just kind of
this long process of continuously you know, making that statue
of out of marble.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, I mean the the unished.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
The answer is that it's a long process of making
a statue out of marble. But there was an aha
moment to the process of making this record and doing
this album with Dye McDonald, who's an incredible producer.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It was the first time in this way.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
And this is not a slight to anybody else that
worked with but often the hip hop it's like speed dating.
You do a session with one producer and then that's
one day and they open the folder of beats and
that's you know, make a song on the spot.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
You know, that's.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
This process of this album is like a very involved
all hands on deck, all like.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
All in every every every inch of the album.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
And and dye like, I mean, my first time working
with somebody with credits like he did it Della's first album,
he did, the Xexis first album he did like he
signed these people to excel. He and he's that accomplished
(23:54):
and experienced and and and working with somebody who would
challenge dreaming who I'd respond to the challenge because it
was the way he'd articulate challenges was like he'd be like, Gee,
(24:15):
this is not.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Gee.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
I know you want to sing. You don't have a
great singing course. We don't really want to hear you
sing this course. I know you want to sing this course,
but the chorus is not asking for you to sing it.
But I've been thinking on this, and the thing is,
(24:39):
your voice reminds me of somebody's who I know you admire,
Leonard Cohen.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
When you speak in this low tone.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Leonard Cohen couldn't hit those notes, but he would have
accompaniment of other vocalists sing the hard melodies behind him.
How about we approach it that way.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I'd never been pushed a coach like that. Before, and
I tried it.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Instead of trying to sing chorus that I couldn't sing,
I tried to sing it low in that voice and
it worked.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I loved that.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
The reference to you Want and darker. I was like, no,
it's all coming together.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
That was it. That was the song.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Where. So I know the tours in like two weeks.
What are you most looking forward to doing live?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Uh? Fargo, North Dakota. No, I meant one song wise, dude, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Mean it's Fargo, a great city for you. It's random sometimes,
how like they are the weirdest cities that are like
people's favorite places to play.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, I mean the show honestly, is is so special
as it is, and it's so dialed in. Having not
toured for over six years, you know, imagine all that
energy between the fans, between you know, me and the band,
(26:22):
you know, getting back on these stages, being forty plus
shows in fifteen countries. It's it's a well oiled machine
and it feels so good getting back to what we do.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Well.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Have you been doing much of the new hablave yet?
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Not not as much yet, But I'm really excited to
play fight fuck.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Well.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
We started off talking about the fact that to me
it was dark and I love that. I think it
was great for you when you go back and listen
to it. Other things on this record that surprise you
that you know, like Weekend and we talked about the
lightning striking and you can hear it and be like,
oh should I didn't know I was thinking that or whatever?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
You know. I mean, I think After Dark is maybe
that record. You know, it's it. It hits deep on
a lot of layers.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Psychologically, you know, I kind of related to Baby Reindeer.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
The show.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
I think that one is going to be one of
the most complex and and it won't necessarily It's like
the wrapping my feelings around it and the feelings of
it won't necessary the immediate.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Yeah, again, that goes back to what Nick was saying
about a year and a half later, you'll be on
stage buck Anita Franco Tobin took her twenty years to
figure someth shit out. So maybe you know you'll be
on stage when you're fifty five and you'll be like,
a shit, that's what that meant. Yeah, Well, you know,
I love the record. I think it's great, and you know,
(28:25):
I think what's cool too, is last time we talked,
we talked about you going in different directions and extending yourself.
And even though this is going back in the way,
I don't feel like it's giving up on that. I
feel like this is a real merging of where you've
been the last few years and kind of tying that
in with your older stuff. Do you feel that that
this is like sort of just gerald in your entirety
(28:46):
now at this point in your life.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
No matter where you are right there? No, this is
this is a journey, This is waking life. This is
you know, like it's an ongoing process of you know,
this is the expression of human experience, you know, through
(29:11):
through art. But I think it represents the maturation.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Of where I'm at, And.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
You know, when you go through things in life as
an artist, it would almost be a disservice not to
write those into.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Into your work.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
And it's it's an expression of of where I'm at
right now, what I've been.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
To Oh, we only have a few minutes off on zoom.
Is there anything you want to add that we didn't
ask about?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
But is this is this going to be like cut up?
I can I ask you a question shure go for it.
Do you think it's missing anything?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
All, Now I really like it. I really like sort
of depth of it, and I like the fact is
yet it feels very honest to me, and that, to me,
is the most important thing in music, even less than sound.
The lyric saiting thing is just like if you feel
like when you're hearing an artist talk about where they're
at in life, that's it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
I love the human expression and to me, like it
brings a new perspective on it. It really feels like
a tapestry of human expression. I love listening to how
it all fits together. I wanted to ask about the
collaborations because I'm sure that you know when you're piecing
all these different parts together, like that's a massive part
of it. Was there a favorite story or a favorite
(30:48):
moment within all the collaborations for this album?
Speaker 4 (30:53):
It really wasn't collaboration like it was all like that.
It was just a chre just me you Goody Grace
and a Jesse. But there was one moment, and it's
the post chorus of five fuck.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
The uh uh uh.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
And and getting readyah to like take out the amp
that he used for the Xx's first album, and I
was like, give.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Me do the thing, do the trick show me like.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Because that first XX album was so iconic and so
important in my life. And being with the architect, the designer,
the producer, the guy who you know, like directed that
whole project, I was like, I need, given that I
get this chance to work with you into an album,
(31:49):
I need you to do the thing.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Like I want, like Michael Jordan to put a bulls jersey.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
On and stick his tongue out and dunk like and
and and doing that post chorus on fight fuck With
and and having those vocals in the background, and that
process of building that post chorus on Fight FuG It
(32:15):
was like a completion full circle, over a decade later,
of a body of work that's meant so much to
me and getting into work with the producer who made
it and get to.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
You know, and there's been.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Multiple times through my career from far a loan that
I've emulated the tone of the guitar to to imitate
early XX. So to get to be with the person
who came up with it and see the amps that
they used and record that part.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That was.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, No, that's fucking awesome, and it's really cool too,
because I'm just looking at the track listing again and
it's like the fact that you can go from vampires
to Nada. No, it really covers the whole thing, so
I don't feel like it's missing anything. But unfortunately, I
have like a minute left on the zoom. So anything
you want to add or.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Do, drive your phone number now. I'm gonna send you
a sign.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Yeah, send it to me, dude. I'd love to hear it.
And you know it's always good to catch up anyway,
so yeah, you can hear me up anytime. All right, man,
We'll see you later on great seeing it, Okay, cool,
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