June 4, 2021 • 30 mins
Lin-Manuel Miranda, Quiara Alegría Hudes and Alex Lacamoire take us through the journey of how “In the Heights” went from the stage to the screen. We learn about the challenges faced and the introduction of contemporary storylines that are relevant to the Latino community of today. Host Eva Longoria also shares her special connection to the movie. Miranda explains why director Jon M. Chu (“Crazy Rich Asians”) was the right choice for the film and the star power that Anthony Ramos brings to the film in the role of Usnavi de la Vega.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, we are back for our third and final episode
in this very special limited series on In the Heights
with the one and only Lynn Manuel Miranda and two
of his long time confidence and collaborators, in the Heights,
writer and producer Guiara This and executive music producer Alex Lackomore.
How are y'all feeling very good to hear you again?
(00:23):
Are you excited to now talk about this movie? Yes?
I mean I can't, y'all. I've watched it six times
and that's just because I keep wanting to show like
my husband, and then I want to show my daughter,
and then I want to like, I'm like you guys,
just let's just watch it one more time. Um. But then,
I don't think a lot of people know the long
(00:45):
journey it took to making the film version of In
the Heights. So where did where did the idea first
come from? If you don't mind, I mean, I think
it began again with the success of the show. I
don't think anyone really thought of it seriously until you know,
we we kind of had an amazing year at the
Tony Awards, which was necessary for the future life of
(01:07):
the show. Because again, we're a show written by people
nobody's heard of starring, with the exception of Priscilla Lopez,
people nobody's heard of. Um and so um. That seal
of approval from the Broadway industry really kind of you know,
it ensured the life of the musical on Broadway. And
so again we got very excited pitches from Hollywood studios.
(01:30):
Hollywood came a call in. I'll never forget the meetings
with Kiara when you know, these big fancy studios came
to talk to us, and we signed with one of
those studios, and and you know, in retrospect, I was
so naive and I'm so grateful for the learning experience
that came with that first Hollywood go round, because it
(01:52):
went from we'll do anything to make this musical into
a great, big movie. Um. And again around that time,
Mama Mia had come out and it was this big
hit and it was kind of the first big return
of the Hollywood musical. Now we're getting several a year,
but it had been a dormant genre for a very
long time, and Mama Mia brought it back in a
(02:12):
big way, and it went from we'll do anything to
make this musical too. Oh, but there are no Latinos
stars who test international. Um. And that was that's really
Hollywood code for we're not going to spend money on
untested talent. Um. And it became the zero sum game
(02:33):
of well, if this international Latina recording star isn't in
your movie, we're not making the movie. Um. And again
that's Hollywood passing the buck to the music industry because
they're not in the business of making Latino stars. So
it's a self defeating cycle. And you know it better
than anyone. Um, we don't have quote unquote Latino stars
(02:53):
that test international because we don't put Latinos in movies,
movies Chicken or the How can I be a star
if you don't in your movie? Correct? And so again
I I bear no ill will towards this international recording
star for whom it would have cost money to be
in this movie. Um. And and they didn't do it,
(03:16):
and the movie went into Turnaround, and Jar and I
looked at each other and again I thought I was
going to play with Snobby in that movie. Um. And
this was ten years ago. This was ten years ago.
You can still find interviews on you ten years ago.
I met you ten years ago. I mean again, and
right and like it was. It was just like, yes,
(03:39):
but you don't have quote unquote like again, which is
Hollywood code for fear. It's just the fear. And in
a lot of ways, time sort of caught up with us,
and we went back to the drawing board. We went
to many different directors, many many different folks, and in
around I think two thousand fourteen or two thousand fifteen, well,
(04:02):
a couple of things happened. One I met um Scott Sanders,
who is our the producer of our film, for the
first time. The week after In The Heights closed, I
got a gig playing a very small part in a
Disney movie called Like Odd Life of Timothy Green. It
was really one of the first movies I ever worked on.
And Scott Sanders was the producer of that movie, and
he was a he's a film producer who also produces theater.
(04:24):
He produced The Color Purple on Broadway. And he sort
of turned to me between scenes and was like, what's
going on with me in the Heights film? And I
was like nothing, like just nothing, and he goes, well,
that's insane, um, And it really kind of made it
his personal cause, uh, to to get this movie rolling again.
And then suddenly Kiara has like time and distance from
(04:45):
the original Broadway musical. And and I want you to
talk a little bit about the sort of the writing
of that screenplay because I think the updates you did
are so brilliant, and I don't think they could have
happened in two thousand and nine when we were so
close to what we just made. Yeah, and and and
because the movie industry is it's a different pace, Kira,
(05:07):
how did you approach it to adapt because it's not
like let's just throw it up, let's just throw it up?
And how the musical was like it's just gonna be
the same? What what? Because there's a lot of adjustments
and seamless like the movie is. I loved the musical
and I loved the movie. You know when you're like, oh, oh,
musical was better or the movie so much better like this,
(05:29):
you did such a good job at adapting this for film.
I mean, there were some things I knew going in,
and there were some things that were just a matter
of trial and error. So the the big like above
the fold ideas going in was I knew there was
still going to be a need to cut songs and
probably cut characters just so that the film could not
only focus more but also breathe. You don't want the
(05:52):
film to feel like it's just crammed full of a
bunch of things when you're just trying to get to
the next thing. You wanted to breathe a little bit. Um.
I wasn't sure which ones though, and that that took
trial and error. The other thing that was really exciting
about doing the film and I was a more mature
writer now. Also it was that I did have time
and distance from the stage show, but I also had
a lot more confidence. I had spent years um writing
(06:15):
my own plays and you know, following my vision as
an artist. So I was clearer on what stories I
wanted to put into the world too, And it was
really exciting to return Two in the Heights with that,
you know, kind of more mature sense of purpose. And
so the other thing that was really exciting was on stage,
it's basically set outdoors on the block. You go to
(06:38):
a few kind of interiors, but it all feels like
it's outside because that's the unit set that never changes.
But I'm like, you know, I want to go into
oh like loudly as living room and how is your conversation,
you know, our kitchen. I want to see what could smell?
I could smell, you know. I wanted to see it.
And John Chow was so right there about that about
(06:59):
these little you know, I would like Claudia has a
line little details that tell the world, you know, And
that's what a close up on a screen in a
movie theater can give you. That theater, if you're sitting,
you have to make the best piece you can for
the back row of the audience. You don't get those
little details in the same way, um, you know. And
I was so excited to know, Like, how does I
like Loudia talk to Nina and US Navy in a
(07:21):
different way when she's in the privacy of her living
room or over her stove top. That's a different conversation
than they would have out on the stoop. Also, I
want to see what was her Cuba? What what was
her blassa? What were those birds there? I want to
there's no reason not to. We can go there. I
want to see US navi's beach. Yeah, he wants to
(07:42):
see his beach. I want to see it too. I
want to see what what does it feel like? First
nav to get that water lapping on his feet. It's
not just oh it's paradise. Oh it's beautiful. Yes, it's
those things, but it cuts much deeper for them. I
don't want to do any spoilers, but that payoff at
the end. It's just genius. It's just beauty, Thank you,
thank you. What was what was so thrilling just that
(08:04):
first trailer when you see n narrating and he's on
a beach the show, I said that. I said that
to my husband because my husband never saw it, like,
oh god, oh my, what did I do well. Another
thing that we that, especially with with John cho we
talked about a lot, was um, you know, when you
(08:25):
go to see a Broadway musical, you're just expecting them
to break into song. It's natural, it's the stage, it's
all make believe. Make believe works a little bit differently
on screen, and so how do you transition into a
song without it feeling like awkward and a little embarrassing?
And so I wanted to create a convention that, like
those navies literally looking at us, direct address, telling us
(08:47):
a story, and if we know he's telling the story
of what happened to him on those days in the heights.
Then we know he's an unreliable narrator. We get to
go into his point of view. He experienced something like
a song, and I put that line in the streets
were made of music, so that we know that's just
how he saw the world. He's just a good storyteller basically,
as opposed to like, oh, awkward, we just pivoted into song.
(09:10):
There are so many things I love about this screenplay
that you guys did that updated it from the play
which was contemporary storylines. You did a dreamer storyline that
that storyline, I was like, Oh my gosh, and it
was so like it was real and authentic. You didn't
(09:31):
feel like you're like, oh, let's jam in something contemporary
into this script um. What made you decide to pull
that storyline? One of the things I really loved and
connected with. Sonny's a character I relate to a lot.
And I I loved writing jokes for Robin des Um
on Broadway because I knew his voice. You start writing
(09:53):
just like Lynn was writing songs for Chris Jackson. I
was definitely writing jokes for Robin Dassus and they're funny.
He's characters a lot of comic relief. But what he's
joking about is like he's kind of a radical political visionary.
You know, he has a joke like, you know, underage
cousins of Odego workers Unite. You know, he knows about
the history of labor movements in the nation and how
(10:15):
Latinos were right there in central to those movements. You know,
he says, I'm the Robin Hood of el body. He
was talking about wealth distribution, you know, and I was like, Okay,
let's that's fun I love that. I Let's dig deeper
into what does Sonny think about what's happening in this
nation right now? What does Funny think about family separation?
I bet he you know, I bet that cuts deep
and hit some real hard and personal. So that was
(10:36):
my way in. And then I started to explore that,
and I thought, well, Nina, he and Nina might have
some interests that overlapped there. So what if we get
them talking about immigration issues, what if we get them
talking about family separation? How is that personal for them? Yeah,
there was a big overlap with Nina and Sonny. So, uh,
Nina is the character who goes away to college, doesn't
(10:56):
have a great experience, um and comes back and Sonny
is the younger cousin a loose nabi for anybody who
doesn't know the play. UM. I loved how you intertwined
those two storylines. And I loved Nina's fight with her
father at the table of going you're not listening and
how hard it is for first generation college goers to
(11:19):
get to a Yale or a Stanford, um even even
any college by the way, you know, and just feel
out of place. Um, you know, And it's something it
seems like on the surface, Kevin, who's the father, should
relate to Nina and understand because he came here from
Puerto Rico and so he had to build a life,
(11:41):
and so he doesn't understand that she felt felt ellienated,
and he's going, so just keep going, what's what's the
big deal? Get over it. But she's pointing out these
kind of subtle distinctions that he doesn't notice. She's like, well,
when you came here, there was a Latino community to
build those relationships. She's like, there is not a Latino
community I've been able to tap into at Stanford in
the same way. So she feels a cultural dislocation that's
(12:04):
distinct from her father's, you know, journey and so he
she has to get it through his thick skull, you know, Like, no, Poppy,
you you faced your own version. But I'm facing my
version now and I don't have all the answers yet,
and it's different than what you experience. Yeah, I uh,
I remember running into Lin Manuel and I want to
(12:26):
talk a little bit about John Chew when he came on,
because you were, like I was hoping for, like hoping
get twenty five dancers in the street and and here
it comes John cho off of Crazy Rich Asians and
he goes, twenty we need we need a thousand, Like
he just up to the game with the vision. Lynn,
can you speak to why John? Why did you go
(12:49):
with John? Which was a genius choice And people don't
if you really go down the rabbit all of his
what he's done in the past, like people crazy rich
ass Like No, he's done so many other musical projects
and so I felt like he was a perfect match
for this. But what did he bring to the table? Yeah, Well,
first of all, when we sat down with John for
(13:10):
the first time, I knew he could deliver a musical number.
That was the one thing I knew because I saw
a step up to the streets opening weekend. And I
love the dance sequences in in those movies that he made,
and and the web series and things he made with
like Legion of Extraordinary Dancers. I knew he liked was
able to film dancers and capture them in a really
(13:31):
brilliant and kinetic way. That's sort of all I knew
before I sat down with him. Uh, and Scott Sanders
sort of sat me down with him. Um. But what
we sort of quickly realized it was not unlike meeting
k for the first time. It was it was very
much the like, oh, you're like me, first generation. You know,
his dad came Chinese American and started a business and
(13:55):
it's like now a thriving, successful business. He's Jeff cho
um and and well known in the Bay Area. But
he was like us, and that he was he was
running around between his parents legs at their business, an
immigrant owned like local business. And and then to be
the one kid of many kids to be like reaching
for a video camera when your parents have made miracles
(14:18):
happen for you to have a better life, and I
need to go into the most unstable, insecure career choice. Um,
that's that's something that was a lived experience for him,
and it has lived experience for many of the characters
UM in our in our show, redefining the nuance of
what home means to us when we when we honor
(14:39):
the experiences of our parents who made away with there
is no way And Um, again, we met him before
Crazy Rich Asians had happened and had been released. But
he instinctively knew this isn't a little musical, This is
a big musical. These are relatable characters, but they are
they have big dreams and we have the right to
(15:01):
reach for that. Um. And I think Crazy with Jasons
was really him learning about his power and how to
use it to tell that story. And again he created
a lane where none existed. And now Jemmy chan is
in a Marvel movie and Henry Golding opens movies. But again,
like to give the lie that we heard ten years
ago we don't have stars at Test International, he made
(15:22):
a big movie and made a generation of stars. And
and I think that was the thinking that also went
into um into this movie, was we've got stars, you know,
We've got Jimmy Smith's, We've got you know, Mark Anthony
for a day. Um, but we also have DNA Daphne
ruben Vega, but we also have Leslie Grace, who is
(15:45):
a star in this corner of the world music community.
And we have Melissa Barrera, who I don't know if
you've seen, but if they keep telling it on three
seasons of Viva UM, so again like really intend about
making a lane for us and dreaming bigger than all
of us. I wish I were on the location scout
(16:06):
where Kiara was with John and they went to Highbridge
Pool and we're like, because again in your in your screenplay,
that was on the block, um and there were fantasy
sequences inside of it, and then you guys go visit
Highbridge Pool on a hundred and seventy fifth Street and go, oh,
this can be so much bigger. And I think he
always reached for the idea you couldn't do on stage.
(16:28):
Oh my gosh, that pool scene, y'all get ready for
the best ever in the history of movies. Like it
was like such a nod to old film as well,
and it's total Esther Williams MGM. Total You know. We
were done our location scout, by the way, it was raining,
(16:49):
it was cold. We were done, and we're driving away,
and John Choo looks at me and he's like, is
there anything else in the neighborhood that we should see
that I should just see so I have a sense
of it. And I was like, well, you know, we're
not too far from the pool, but I'm sure it's closed,
and I'm sure the pools are drained. And we we
in the rain, kind of snuck around back where there's
um a wrought iron fence so that you can peek through,
(17:10):
but it doesn't look like anything because the pools are drained.
It's kind of like a drag of an empty space.
And and then we're kind of like giggling in the
backseat of the van. After that, we're like, you know,
could we? Would we? And we were still asking could
we like two days later, and we were like, there
are shots in that sequence. I don't know how he did.
(17:32):
I don't know how he did. I look at that
sequence and I go, that's just he's a genius. I mean,
he's a genius. And how he shot it in that song,
I mean the song and how everybody's in it but
doesn't feel um for I mean, it's just a beautiful,
beautiful scene and sequence and song. The Um, can we
(18:22):
talk about Anthony Ramos for one second? And lynn Ah
knowing knowing that you're not going to be a snobby,
So who I mean to find lynn Manuel's replacement? Like,
I just I don't even know there's you. You can't
even fill your shoes. Um. And Anthony did not only
a great job, he owned it and he knocked it
(18:45):
out of the park. Can we talk about like he
is so charismatic he jumps off the screen. I just
want to like kiss his face every time he comes
on screen. Well, everyone wants to kiss his face. That's
how you know you have a movie star on your hands.
I've felt that way when he walked into the Hamilton's
audition room and and performed my shot like he wanted
(19:06):
to devour the room. Um. And you know again, I
had the good fortune of of performing Hamilton's with him
for a year and a half where he literally played
my son uh in Act two every night and um.
But then the real stroke of good luck came when
he actually played us Navi in a production of In
(19:26):
the Heights at the Kennedy Center and it was directed
by another Heights alum, Stephanie Clemmens. He was replacing an
actor who got injured at the last minute, um, and
just sort of tagged in as a favor um. And
I will never forget seeing him in that role. It
was this very out of body experience of like, oh,
(19:47):
I wrote this role all those years ago so that
you could play it someday, Like that's why I did that.
I played us Navy, but you are Ustafi. Uh. And
that's that's truly how it felt to see him in
that role for the first time. And then um, it
was just a matter of like introducing him to John
and making uh seeing if John felt the same way
(20:10):
we did. Um. But it was you know, he's he's
a star and and he and he comes to it
so effortless, like Anthony doesn't have to put anything on
to be nav Like he is someone who is the
heart of a community. He is someone who is the
center of his circle of friends and and loved ones
um in in such a grounded and real way. And
(20:33):
he's gorgeous and can sing and dance and act. But
like he just it's it fits him, Like it's like
I made this suit ten years ago and like here
comes this kid, and it fits him perfect. I don't
have to alter a one of it's great and it's
it's not just an emotional connection, it's I mean even
even his facility with the rhymes and the flow is
(20:56):
so fluid, it's so easy. You don't hear him sing.
He makes it sound easy and not easy. Yeah, he's
just like he's born to do it. I was gonna
ask Alex about that, like being with this project from
the beginning and then moving it to the film side. Musically,
it so much honors the play, but it's such a
(21:17):
new thing. It's its own thing. The film and the
music is is is different in a beautiful way. Um,
how was that approach? Like, what did you what did
you have to do differently? Yeah, So what I loved
is the opportunity that we got to just really like
make the music as authentic as possible, as rich as possible,
(21:38):
as powerful as possible. When you're watching a theatrical performance, right,
the music lands on you in a different way as
an audience member, right, because you're hearing something live, You're
focusing on a lot of different things. You're feeling the
vibrations in the air. Right. The sound travels through the
speakers in a certain way that like maybe little mistakes
might not come across in a certain way. But when
you're making a record, which is a slap whaten a
(22:00):
movie is right, all those details come into focus, and
when one thing is out of place, or something just
doesn't sound quite right, or the performance isn't there, you
feel it and you notice it. It's magnified because you're
seeing a big screen or you're hearing it on headphones
or whatever it is. So here we have this opportunity
that you know, for example, if there is a section
of it won't belong now that has about at the groove,
(22:21):
then like, let's call abachata specialist come in and play
the guitar on that, right, if there's a certain uh
grad lava like you know, we didn't have a quatro
in the orchestration and kind of because it's hard to
find one guitar as you can play electric electric guitar, acoustics,
(22:44):
t car todays and and everything else. Right, but okay, great,
let's get a quatra player to play on that song
because that's what the song needs. Huh right, uh ninety
six thousand, Like wouldn't it be great to have Michael
(23:05):
Lozando like who produces hip hop tracks and has like
low end for days when he plays bass, Like, let's
get that guy to play on the track. It was
really like, you know, we were like kids in a
candy store knowing that we could really do whatever we
(23:26):
thought the songs needed, and everything just got magnified in
the best possible way. Like we went from uh, six
horns on Broadway to nine horns for the movie, right,
we had two percussionist sent a drummer. Well, let's have
four of because in the cent a drummer because we
got to have that fourth guy on the guido playing
the groove. You know, it's like all of a sudden,
we get to do, uh, just take the song to
that next level. And my co executive music producer, Bill Sherman,
(23:49):
his tagline was like, hey, we have to make Heights
two point no musically, and that's where it's just like,
how do we just take it to the next level.
And that's just on the track side, right, Because then
on top of that, you have all these amazing actors
who sing their faces off, and that's what about this movie.
The actors you see performing on the screen are singing
I didn't know I love Melissa from Viva, I didn't
(24:11):
know she could sing like that, And I just met
Leslie Grays and I was like, oh my god, you
you are a singer who is now acting like I was.
But Corey Hawkins, what a great choice for Benny. He's amazing, amazing, amazing.
One of the things I love the most is that
um again me being able to bring in all the
institutional knowledge I had about the show just from having
(24:34):
been around it and having lived in it, and having
heard Lynn talked to actors about what the songs are
meant to evoke, and being with kra as she's creating
the scenes and knowing what the message is supposed to be.
One of my favorite parts as the producer was being
in the studio and talking directly to the actors and say, Okay,
when you delivered this song line, I think it leads
a little bit more of this undertone. I think it
(24:55):
needs to feel a little bit more like this, so
that the performance that they gave to that microphone felt
like it had story, It felt like it had meaning,
felt like it was lived in. And I just love
being able to work on all angles right, that's facts
in the vocals, in the mix, and everything to get
the song sounding in the way that I thought that
the songs are needed to sound. And I really enjoyed
that part of it, to the point where the actors
(25:16):
are so at home with it that you know that
number Champagne in our in the movie, they're singing life,
you want to stay what you can stand up? So
maybe save this place. Very funny and it's not like
Sonny's got roll models. What are you talking about? Thing?
(25:40):
I think your vacation can wait. Vacation, Vanessa, you left
us soon, and I moved down to what you can
take the aage Ronda say you're leaving the country and
we're never gonna say again. Everyone, I take it to
your coffee. And I don't know what give that I
(26:01):
wish I was. That's one continuous live take with one
very talented steadicam operator. Uh, the whole number. And I
think it's the ninth take. And again like that's the
level of prep and and rehearsal so that on the
day we go, holy sh it, we have a quiet
day on location in Washington Heights. Let's sing it live
(26:23):
and and they and they're able to do that. Oh
my gosh, I did not know that. But like you
said about that song, like it became something else because
the movie, you know, you could do it in in film.
So when you saw the final cut because I got,
I cried. I think I cried four times just in
the opening credits, like just I was like, this is beautiful.
My husband's like it hasn't started. I'm like, it's um.
(26:47):
Did you feel like do you were you happy with
with the final result and feel like, wow, this is
full circle. I feel the same way about the movie
the way I feel about my neighborhood itself, Like there
are so many layers um of meaning and so many
layers of my life in Wintel. In this movie, you know,
(27:11):
you go from one. It's on location in the neighborhood
we wrote the songs about. So there's the layer of
seeing Nina and Benny sing when you're home in the
same park and playground where I was on my first
date with my wife and we were showing each other
our favorite parts of the neighborhood. Um, seeing again those
(27:31):
easter eggs of Seth Stewart, our original Griffiti Pete as
the bartender in the club, seeing our original cast singing
the hydrants are open. In that final scene, the ice
cream man played by sometime lin Manuel Miranda collaborator Christopher Jackson.
Um the again like layers and layers, Like there's the
(27:54):
layers of the writing of the experience, there's the layers
of performing the experience, and then there's this new layer
of this incredible company of actors who have brought it
to life on screen and them finding community. Like I
can't watch Naval Barrio in the movie without thinking about
the fact that we only had one day to get it,
one day to capture an eight minute musical number from
(28:16):
sun up to sundown, and the joy and the triumph
and hearing Anthony Rommel's being like this is for the culture.
Let's go and cheering us on at every turn, um So,
and I feel the same way again. I live um
not far from where I grew up. I walked five
blocks and I'm fifteen years old again writing that poetry
(28:38):
in the cloisters, or I'm walking by the apartment building
where I took piano lessons when I was seven years old.
So to have those layers of experience in the film
as well, it's really really enjoyed. And and the poignancy too,
of coming out of this pandemic and seeing people singing
and dancing in the streets and finding community with each other,
which we're all rusty at right out, Like what does
(29:01):
it like we're all kind of swinting and walking back
into the sun, like oh yeah, I remember kissing, remember,
like dancing with our friends at a club like we've all, um,
we've all you know, for very good reason, been been
hunkered down. And and to see a movie that was
filmed before this happened, and it's such a celebration of
(29:22):
what community can do when they're together. Um again, like hits,
I'm still another level. Yeah, you guys live. I can't
even tell you what this movie means just to see
it on screen. Well, listen, I remember you championing us
when we first went out to l A with the show,
and that's when we became friends. So you know, we
go all the way back with this thing. So I
love you. I'm so grateful to you for doing this.
(29:44):
Um So, this June eleventh, we're going to celebrate a
world of dreams and community and music and dance and
food and romance and family in the Heights June eleventh,
in theaters and on HBO Max for thirty one days.
That's a wrap. Thanks for joining us. We will see
you all on the Michael to podcast Network from I
(30:07):
Heart Media. So much cool stuff happening there, including my
very own podcast, so stay tuned for that and more
from some of the most iconic Latin X voices and creators.
See you soon.
Okay, we are back for our third and final episode
in this very special limited series on In the Heights
with the one and only Lynn Manuel Miranda and two
of his long time confidence and collaborators, in the Heights,
writer and producer Guiara This and executive music producer Alex Lackomore.
How are y'all feeling very good to hear you again?
(00:23):
Are you excited to now talk about this movie? Yes?
I mean I can't, y'all. I've watched it six times
and that's just because I keep wanting to show like
my husband, and then I want to show my daughter,
and then I want to like, I'm like you guys,
just let's just watch it one more time. Um. But then,
I don't think a lot of people know the long
(00:45):
journey it took to making the film version of In
the Heights. So where did where did the idea first
come from? If you don't mind, I mean, I think
it began again with the success of the show. I
don't think anyone really thought of it seriously until you know,
we we kind of had an amazing year at the
Tony Awards, which was necessary for the future life of
(01:07):
the show. Because again, we're a show written by people
nobody's heard of starring, with the exception of Priscilla Lopez,
people nobody's heard of. Um and so um. That seal
of approval from the Broadway industry really kind of you know,
it ensured the life of the musical on Broadway. And
so again we got very excited pitches from Hollywood studios.
(01:30):
Hollywood came a call in. I'll never forget the meetings
with Kiara when you know, these big fancy studios came
to talk to us, and we signed with one of
those studios, and and you know, in retrospect, I was
so naive and I'm so grateful for the learning experience
that came with that first Hollywood go round, because it
(01:52):
went from we'll do anything to make this musical into
a great, big movie. Um. And again around that time,
Mama Mia had come out and it was this big
hit and it was kind of the first big return
of the Hollywood musical. Now we're getting several a year,
but it had been a dormant genre for a very
long time, and Mama Mia brought it back in a
(02:12):
big way, and it went from we'll do anything to
make this musical too. Oh, but there are no Latinos
stars who test international. Um. And that was that's really
Hollywood code for we're not going to spend money on
untested talent. Um. And it became the zero sum game
(02:33):
of well, if this international Latina recording star isn't in
your movie, we're not making the movie. Um. And again
that's Hollywood passing the buck to the music industry because
they're not in the business of making Latino stars. So
it's a self defeating cycle. And you know it better
than anyone. Um, we don't have quote unquote Latino stars
(02:53):
that test international because we don't put Latinos in movies,
movies Chicken or the How can I be a star
if you don't in your movie? Correct? And so again
I I bear no ill will towards this international recording
star for whom it would have cost money to be
in this movie. Um. And and they didn't do it,
(03:16):
and the movie went into Turnaround, and Jar and I
looked at each other and again I thought I was
going to play with Snobby in that movie. Um. And
this was ten years ago. This was ten years ago.
You can still find interviews on you ten years ago.
I met you ten years ago. I mean again, and
right and like it was. It was just like, yes,
(03:39):
but you don't have quote unquote like again, which is
Hollywood code for fear. It's just the fear. And in
a lot of ways, time sort of caught up with us,
and we went back to the drawing board. We went
to many different directors, many many different folks, and in
around I think two thousand fourteen or two thousand fifteen, well,
(04:02):
a couple of things happened. One I met um Scott Sanders,
who is our the producer of our film, for the
first time. The week after In The Heights closed, I
got a gig playing a very small part in a
Disney movie called Like Odd Life of Timothy Green. It
was really one of the first movies I ever worked on.
And Scott Sanders was the producer of that movie, and
he was a he's a film producer who also produces theater.
(04:24):
He produced The Color Purple on Broadway. And he sort
of turned to me between scenes and was like, what's
going on with me in the Heights film? And I
was like nothing, like just nothing, and he goes, well,
that's insane, um, And it really kind of made it
his personal cause, uh, to to get this movie rolling again.
And then suddenly Kiara has like time and distance from
(04:45):
the original Broadway musical. And and I want you to
talk a little bit about the sort of the writing
of that screenplay because I think the updates you did
are so brilliant, and I don't think they could have
happened in two thousand and nine when we were so
close to what we just made. Yeah, and and and
because the movie industry is it's a different pace, Kira,
(05:07):
how did you approach it to adapt because it's not
like let's just throw it up, let's just throw it up?
And how the musical was like it's just gonna be
the same? What what? Because there's a lot of adjustments
and seamless like the movie is. I loved the musical
and I loved the movie. You know when you're like, oh, oh,
musical was better or the movie so much better like this,
(05:29):
you did such a good job at adapting this for film.
I mean, there were some things I knew going in,
and there were some things that were just a matter
of trial and error. So the the big like above
the fold ideas going in was I knew there was
still going to be a need to cut songs and
probably cut characters just so that the film could not
only focus more but also breathe. You don't want the
(05:52):
film to feel like it's just crammed full of a
bunch of things when you're just trying to get to
the next thing. You wanted to breathe a little bit. Um.
I wasn't sure which ones though, and that that took
trial and error. The other thing that was really exciting
about doing the film and I was a more mature
writer now. Also it was that I did have time
and distance from the stage show, but I also had
a lot more confidence. I had spent years um writing
(06:15):
my own plays and you know, following my vision as
an artist. So I was clearer on what stories I
wanted to put into the world too, And it was
really exciting to return Two in the Heights with that,
you know, kind of more mature sense of purpose. And
so the other thing that was really exciting was on stage,
it's basically set outdoors on the block. You go to
(06:38):
a few kind of interiors, but it all feels like
it's outside because that's the unit set that never changes.
But I'm like, you know, I want to go into
oh like loudly as living room and how is your conversation,
you know, our kitchen. I want to see what could smell?
I could smell, you know. I wanted to see it.
And John Chow was so right there about that about
(06:59):
these little you know, I would like Claudia has a
line little details that tell the world, you know, And
that's what a close up on a screen in a
movie theater can give you. That theater, if you're sitting,
you have to make the best piece you can for
the back row of the audience. You don't get those
little details in the same way, um, you know. And
I was so excited to know, Like, how does I
like Loudia talk to Nina and US Navy in a
(07:21):
different way when she's in the privacy of her living
room or over her stove top. That's a different conversation
than they would have out on the stoop. Also, I
want to see what was her Cuba? What what was
her blassa? What were those birds there? I want to
there's no reason not to. We can go there. I
want to see US navi's beach. Yeah, he wants to
(07:42):
see his beach. I want to see it too. I
want to see what what does it feel like? First
nav to get that water lapping on his feet. It's
not just oh it's paradise. Oh it's beautiful. Yes, it's
those things, but it cuts much deeper for them. I
don't want to do any spoilers, but that payoff at
the end. It's just genius. It's just beauty, Thank you,
thank you. What was what was so thrilling just that
(08:04):
first trailer when you see n narrating and he's on
a beach the show, I said that. I said that
to my husband because my husband never saw it, like,
oh god, oh my, what did I do well. Another
thing that we that, especially with with John cho we
talked about a lot, was um, you know, when you
(08:25):
go to see a Broadway musical, you're just expecting them
to break into song. It's natural, it's the stage, it's
all make believe. Make believe works a little bit differently
on screen, and so how do you transition into a
song without it feeling like awkward and a little embarrassing?
And so I wanted to create a convention that, like
those navies literally looking at us, direct address, telling us
(08:47):
a story, and if we know he's telling the story
of what happened to him on those days in the heights.
Then we know he's an unreliable narrator. We get to
go into his point of view. He experienced something like
a song, and I put that line in the streets
were made of music, so that we know that's just
how he saw the world. He's just a good storyteller basically,
as opposed to like, oh, awkward, we just pivoted into song.
(09:10):
There are so many things I love about this screenplay
that you guys did that updated it from the play
which was contemporary storylines. You did a dreamer storyline that
that storyline, I was like, Oh my gosh, and it
was so like it was real and authentic. You didn't
(09:31):
feel like you're like, oh, let's jam in something contemporary
into this script um. What made you decide to pull
that storyline? One of the things I really loved and
connected with. Sonny's a character I relate to a lot.
And I I loved writing jokes for Robin des Um
on Broadway because I knew his voice. You start writing
(09:53):
just like Lynn was writing songs for Chris Jackson. I
was definitely writing jokes for Robin Dassus and they're funny.
He's characters a lot of comic relief. But what he's
joking about is like he's kind of a radical political visionary.
You know, he has a joke like, you know, underage
cousins of Odego workers Unite. You know, he knows about
the history of labor movements in the nation and how
(10:15):
Latinos were right there in central to those movements. You know,
he says, I'm the Robin Hood of el body. He
was talking about wealth distribution, you know, and I was like, Okay,
let's that's fun I love that. I Let's dig deeper
into what does Sonny think about what's happening in this
nation right now? What does Funny think about family separation?
I bet he you know, I bet that cuts deep
and hit some real hard and personal. So that was
(10:36):
my way in. And then I started to explore that,
and I thought, well, Nina, he and Nina might have
some interests that overlapped there. So what if we get
them talking about immigration issues, what if we get them
talking about family separation? How is that personal for them? Yeah,
there was a big overlap with Nina and Sonny. So, uh,
Nina is the character who goes away to college, doesn't
(10:56):
have a great experience, um and comes back and Sonny
is the younger cousin a loose nabi for anybody who
doesn't know the play. UM. I loved how you intertwined
those two storylines. And I loved Nina's fight with her
father at the table of going you're not listening and
how hard it is for first generation college goers to
(11:19):
get to a Yale or a Stanford, um even even
any college by the way, you know, and just feel
out of place. Um, you know, And it's something it
seems like on the surface, Kevin, who's the father, should
relate to Nina and understand because he came here from
Puerto Rico and so he had to build a life,
(11:41):
and so he doesn't understand that she felt felt ellienated,
and he's going, so just keep going, what's what's the
big deal? Get over it. But she's pointing out these
kind of subtle distinctions that he doesn't notice. She's like, well,
when you came here, there was a Latino community to
build those relationships. She's like, there is not a Latino
community I've been able to tap into at Stanford in
the same way. So she feels a cultural dislocation that's
(12:04):
distinct from her father's, you know, journey and so he
she has to get it through his thick skull, you know, Like, no, Poppy,
you you faced your own version. But I'm facing my
version now and I don't have all the answers yet,
and it's different than what you experience. Yeah, I uh,
I remember running into Lin Manuel and I want to
(12:26):
talk a little bit about John Chew when he came on,
because you were, like I was hoping for, like hoping
get twenty five dancers in the street and and here
it comes John cho off of Crazy Rich Asians and
he goes, twenty we need we need a thousand, Like
he just up to the game with the vision. Lynn,
can you speak to why John? Why did you go
(12:49):
with John? Which was a genius choice And people don't
if you really go down the rabbit all of his
what he's done in the past, like people crazy rich
ass Like No, he's done so many other musical projects
and so I felt like he was a perfect match
for this. But what did he bring to the table? Yeah, Well,
first of all, when we sat down with John for
(13:10):
the first time, I knew he could deliver a musical number.
That was the one thing I knew because I saw
a step up to the streets opening weekend. And I
love the dance sequences in in those movies that he made,
and and the web series and things he made with
like Legion of Extraordinary Dancers. I knew he liked was
able to film dancers and capture them in a really
(13:31):
brilliant and kinetic way. That's sort of all I knew
before I sat down with him. Uh, and Scott Sanders
sort of sat me down with him. Um. But what
we sort of quickly realized it was not unlike meeting
k for the first time. It was it was very
much the like, oh, you're like me, first generation. You know,
his dad came Chinese American and started a business and
(13:55):
it's like now a thriving, successful business. He's Jeff cho
um and and well known in the Bay Area. But
he was like us, and that he was he was
running around between his parents legs at their business, an
immigrant owned like local business. And and then to be
the one kid of many kids to be like reaching
for a video camera when your parents have made miracles
(14:18):
happen for you to have a better life, and I
need to go into the most unstable, insecure career choice. Um,
that's that's something that was a lived experience for him,
and it has lived experience for many of the characters
UM in our in our show, redefining the nuance of
what home means to us when we when we honor
(14:39):
the experiences of our parents who made away with there
is no way And Um, again, we met him before
Crazy Rich Asians had happened and had been released. But
he instinctively knew this isn't a little musical, This is
a big musical. These are relatable characters, but they are
they have big dreams and we have the right to
(15:01):
reach for that. Um. And I think Crazy with Jasons
was really him learning about his power and how to
use it to tell that story. And again he created
a lane where none existed. And now Jemmy chan is
in a Marvel movie and Henry Golding opens movies. But again,
like to give the lie that we heard ten years
ago we don't have stars at Test International, he made
(15:22):
a big movie and made a generation of stars. And
and I think that was the thinking that also went
into um into this movie, was we've got stars, you know,
We've got Jimmy Smith's, We've got you know, Mark Anthony
for a day. Um, but we also have DNA Daphne
ruben Vega, but we also have Leslie Grace, who is
(15:45):
a star in this corner of the world music community.
And we have Melissa Barrera, who I don't know if
you've seen, but if they keep telling it on three
seasons of Viva UM, so again like really intend about
making a lane for us and dreaming bigger than all
of us. I wish I were on the location scout
(16:06):
where Kiara was with John and they went to Highbridge
Pool and we're like, because again in your in your screenplay,
that was on the block, um and there were fantasy
sequences inside of it, and then you guys go visit
Highbridge Pool on a hundred and seventy fifth Street and go, oh,
this can be so much bigger. And I think he
always reached for the idea you couldn't do on stage.
(16:28):
Oh my gosh, that pool scene, y'all get ready for
the best ever in the history of movies. Like it
was like such a nod to old film as well,
and it's total Esther Williams MGM. Total You know. We
were done our location scout, by the way, it was raining,
(16:49):
it was cold. We were done, and we're driving away,
and John Choo looks at me and he's like, is
there anything else in the neighborhood that we should see
that I should just see so I have a sense
of it. And I was like, well, you know, we're
not too far from the pool, but I'm sure it's closed,
and I'm sure the pools are drained. And we we
in the rain, kind of snuck around back where there's
um a wrought iron fence so that you can peek through,
(17:10):
but it doesn't look like anything because the pools are drained.
It's kind of like a drag of an empty space.
And and then we're kind of like giggling in the
backseat of the van. After that, we're like, you know,
could we? Would we? And we were still asking could
we like two days later, and we were like, there
are shots in that sequence. I don't know how he did.
(17:32):
I don't know how he did. I look at that
sequence and I go, that's just he's a genius. I mean,
he's a genius. And how he shot it in that song,
I mean the song and how everybody's in it but
doesn't feel um for I mean, it's just a beautiful,
beautiful scene and sequence and song. The Um, can we
(18:22):
talk about Anthony Ramos for one second? And lynn Ah
knowing knowing that you're not going to be a snobby,
So who I mean to find lynn Manuel's replacement? Like,
I just I don't even know there's you. You can't
even fill your shoes. Um. And Anthony did not only
a great job, he owned it and he knocked it
(18:45):
out of the park. Can we talk about like he
is so charismatic he jumps off the screen. I just
want to like kiss his face every time he comes
on screen. Well, everyone wants to kiss his face. That's
how you know you have a movie star on your hands.
I've felt that way when he walked into the Hamilton's
audition room and and performed my shot like he wanted
(19:06):
to devour the room. Um. And you know again, I
had the good fortune of of performing Hamilton's with him
for a year and a half where he literally played
my son uh in Act two every night and um.
But then the real stroke of good luck came when
he actually played us Navi in a production of In
(19:26):
the Heights at the Kennedy Center and it was directed
by another Heights alum, Stephanie Clemmens. He was replacing an
actor who got injured at the last minute, um, and
just sort of tagged in as a favor um. And
I will never forget seeing him in that role. It
was this very out of body experience of like, oh,
(19:47):
I wrote this role all those years ago so that
you could play it someday, Like that's why I did that.
I played us Navy, but you are Ustafi. Uh. And
that's that's truly how it felt to see him in
that role for the first time. And then um, it
was just a matter of like introducing him to John
and making uh seeing if John felt the same way
(20:10):
we did. Um. But it was you know, he's he's
a star and and he and he comes to it
so effortless, like Anthony doesn't have to put anything on
to be nav Like he is someone who is the
heart of a community. He is someone who is the
center of his circle of friends and and loved ones
um in in such a grounded and real way. And
(20:33):
he's gorgeous and can sing and dance and act. But
like he just it's it fits him, Like it's like
I made this suit ten years ago and like here
comes this kid, and it fits him perfect. I don't
have to alter a one of it's great and it's
it's not just an emotional connection, it's I mean even
even his facility with the rhymes and the flow is
(20:56):
so fluid, it's so easy. You don't hear him sing.
He makes it sound easy and not easy. Yeah, he's
just like he's born to do it. I was gonna
ask Alex about that, like being with this project from
the beginning and then moving it to the film side. Musically,
it so much honors the play, but it's such a
(21:17):
new thing. It's its own thing. The film and the
music is is is different in a beautiful way. Um,
how was that approach? Like, what did you what did
you have to do differently? Yeah, So what I loved
is the opportunity that we got to just really like
make the music as authentic as possible, as rich as possible,
(21:38):
as powerful as possible. When you're watching a theatrical performance, right,
the music lands on you in a different way as
an audience member, right, because you're hearing something live, You're
focusing on a lot of different things. You're feeling the
vibrations in the air. Right. The sound travels through the
speakers in a certain way that like maybe little mistakes
might not come across in a certain way. But when
you're making a record, which is a slap whaten a
(22:00):
movie is right, all those details come into focus, and
when one thing is out of place, or something just
doesn't sound quite right, or the performance isn't there, you
feel it and you notice it. It's magnified because you're
seeing a big screen or you're hearing it on headphones
or whatever it is. So here we have this opportunity
that you know, for example, if there is a section
of it won't belong now that has about at the groove,
(22:21):
then like, let's call abachata specialist come in and play
the guitar on that, right, if there's a certain uh
grad lava like you know, we didn't have a quatro
in the orchestration and kind of because it's hard to
find one guitar as you can play electric electric guitar, acoustics,
(22:44):
t car todays and and everything else. Right, but okay, great,
let's get a quatra player to play on that song
because that's what the song needs. Huh right, uh ninety
six thousand, Like wouldn't it be great to have Michael
(23:05):
Lozando like who produces hip hop tracks and has like
low end for days when he plays bass, Like, let's
get that guy to play on the track. It was
really like, you know, we were like kids in a
candy store knowing that we could really do whatever we
(23:26):
thought the songs needed, and everything just got magnified in
the best possible way. Like we went from uh, six
horns on Broadway to nine horns for the movie, right,
we had two percussionist sent a drummer. Well, let's have
four of because in the cent a drummer because we
got to have that fourth guy on the guido playing
the groove. You know, it's like all of a sudden,
we get to do, uh, just take the song to
that next level. And my co executive music producer, Bill Sherman,
(23:49):
his tagline was like, hey, we have to make Heights
two point no musically, and that's where it's just like,
how do we just take it to the next level.
And that's just on the track side, right, Because then
on top of that, you have all these amazing actors
who sing their faces off, and that's what about this movie.
The actors you see performing on the screen are singing
I didn't know I love Melissa from Viva, I didn't
(24:11):
know she could sing like that, And I just met
Leslie Grays and I was like, oh my god, you
you are a singer who is now acting like I was.
But Corey Hawkins, what a great choice for Benny. He's amazing, amazing, amazing.
One of the things I love the most is that
um again me being able to bring in all the
institutional knowledge I had about the show just from having
(24:34):
been around it and having lived in it, and having
heard Lynn talked to actors about what the songs are
meant to evoke, and being with kra as she's creating
the scenes and knowing what the message is supposed to be.
One of my favorite parts as the producer was being
in the studio and talking directly to the actors and say, Okay,
when you delivered this song line, I think it leads
a little bit more of this undertone. I think it
(24:55):
needs to feel a little bit more like this, so
that the performance that they gave to that microphone felt
like it had story, It felt like it had meaning,
felt like it was lived in. And I just love
being able to work on all angles right, that's facts
in the vocals, in the mix, and everything to get
the song sounding in the way that I thought that
the songs are needed to sound. And I really enjoyed
that part of it, to the point where the actors
(25:16):
are so at home with it that you know that
number Champagne in our in the movie, they're singing life,
you want to stay what you can stand up? So
maybe save this place. Very funny and it's not like
Sonny's got roll models. What are you talking about? Thing?
(25:40):
I think your vacation can wait. Vacation, Vanessa, you left
us soon, and I moved down to what you can
take the aage Ronda say you're leaving the country and
we're never gonna say again. Everyone, I take it to
your coffee. And I don't know what give that I
(26:01):
wish I was. That's one continuous live take with one
very talented steadicam operator. Uh, the whole number. And I
think it's the ninth take. And again like that's the
level of prep and and rehearsal so that on the
day we go, holy sh it, we have a quiet
day on location in Washington Heights. Let's sing it live
(26:23):
and and they and they're able to do that. Oh
my gosh, I did not know that. But like you
said about that song, like it became something else because
the movie, you know, you could do it in in film.
So when you saw the final cut because I got,
I cried. I think I cried four times just in
the opening credits, like just I was like, this is beautiful.
My husband's like it hasn't started. I'm like, it's um.
(26:47):
Did you feel like do you were you happy with
with the final result and feel like, wow, this is
full circle. I feel the same way about the movie
the way I feel about my neighborhood itself, Like there
are so many layers um of meaning and so many
layers of my life in Wintel. In this movie, you know,
(27:11):
you go from one. It's on location in the neighborhood
we wrote the songs about. So there's the layer of
seeing Nina and Benny sing when you're home in the
same park and playground where I was on my first
date with my wife and we were showing each other
our favorite parts of the neighborhood. Um, seeing again those
(27:31):
easter eggs of Seth Stewart, our original Griffiti Pete as
the bartender in the club, seeing our original cast singing
the hydrants are open. In that final scene, the ice
cream man played by sometime lin Manuel Miranda collaborator Christopher Jackson.
Um the again like layers and layers, Like there's the
(27:54):
layers of the writing of the experience, there's the layers
of performing the experience, and then there's this new layer
of this incredible company of actors who have brought it
to life on screen and them finding community. Like I
can't watch Naval Barrio in the movie without thinking about
the fact that we only had one day to get it,
one day to capture an eight minute musical number from
(28:16):
sun up to sundown, and the joy and the triumph
and hearing Anthony Rommel's being like this is for the culture.
Let's go and cheering us on at every turn, um So,
and I feel the same way again. I live um
not far from where I grew up. I walked five
blocks and I'm fifteen years old again writing that poetry
(28:38):
in the cloisters, or I'm walking by the apartment building
where I took piano lessons when I was seven years old.
So to have those layers of experience in the film
as well, it's really really enjoyed. And and the poignancy too,
of coming out of this pandemic and seeing people singing
and dancing in the streets and finding community with each other,
which we're all rusty at right out, Like what does
(29:01):
it like we're all kind of swinting and walking back
into the sun, like oh yeah, I remember kissing, remember,
like dancing with our friends at a club like we've all, um,
we've all you know, for very good reason, been been
hunkered down. And and to see a movie that was
filmed before this happened, and it's such a celebration of
(29:22):
what community can do when they're together. Um again, like hits,
I'm still another level. Yeah, you guys live. I can't
even tell you what this movie means just to see
it on screen. Well, listen, I remember you championing us
when we first went out to l A with the show,
and that's when we became friends. So you know, we
go all the way back with this thing. So I
love you. I'm so grateful to you for doing this.
(29:44):
Um So, this June eleventh, we're going to celebrate a
world of dreams and community and music and dance and
food and romance and family in the Heights June eleventh,
in theaters and on HBO Max for thirty one days.
That's a wrap. Thanks for joining us. We will see
you all on the Michael to podcast Network from I
(30:07):
Heart Media. So much cool stuff happening there, including my
very own podcast, so stay tuned for that and more
from some of the most iconic Latin X voices and creators.
See you soon.
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