July 12, 2023 • 35 mins
You can change the picture in an instant to reframe any situation going on in your life. Whether it's the way you view yourself, another, or a situation, forward movement occurs when you learn to zoom in or out accordingly. This adjustment requires vulnerability and trust in something bigger than you. That's what we're here to talk about today.
Fear, ego, and survival mode build walls, and before you know it you're boxed in, hindering emotional mobility and growth. Reframing, aka changing the picture, breaks down these barriers, building communities where only division once lived. Moments become milestones on your path to freedom. Contrast fades and brightness ensues.
Because Earth School is hard, without the ability to find the love, lead with compassion, and change the picture so it looks and feels more in-tune with the Other Side.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can. Because, let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh, I have something in store
for you new rhyme. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I am God, I can't wait to see what you
are going to unpack today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Sometimes it feels like I'm packing. Sometimes it feels I
just set a match to the luggage. I sometimes, but
today I didn't set a match to anything. So that's
actually good news for everybody. But you good life good.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I'm good, I'm good traveling. Yeah, it was funny you
should bring up a luggage. I've been dealing with that
a lot, right.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
You know, it's so funny, And I think I've said
this I don't know if I've said on the show
and I've said it to you before that I sometimes,
you know, because like we have that dialogue going on
in her head, and weird shit can go through it,
some of the weird shit that is very consistent for
me speaking of luggage and burning it. But mine is
like I have a fantasy that I lose my phone
and I can't ever find it, and I'm okay with it.
(01:42):
It's a very strange thing. It's like, uh yeah, it's
like it's like the world has gone I think sometimes
too far for me where it's like I just want
to be left alone. I just don't want to. Like
it's like luggage. I don't want to travel, burn the luggage,
lose my phone. I don't want to Might it be
accessible twenty four to seven?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You know that you can like put it in a
drawer and forget about it, right, you can walk away?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, but I think for me, I have to lose it.
But anyway, we're going to cancel clear that because I
really don't have to deal with.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It fair enough.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
So today, Yes, I'm really excited. I think this is
a really great topic and we're calling it changing the
picture and I'm going to have to give that credit
to Mona, who I used to write Miss Mona always
loves to swoop in. She used to talk about when
you're really upset about this usually talked about more about
(02:39):
being upset, but there's a broader definition to it, when
you're really upset about something that you need to be
able to change the picture so you don't get caught
in that kind of you know, dark rabbit hole, because
not everything it has to be like that. And she
would call it, she talk about changing the picture. And
sometimes it's changing the picture for yourself, and sometimes it's
(02:59):
changing the picture for other people. So it's not just
what it does, like you doing it for yourself, which
is also very important, but sometimes we can actually do
it knowingly or unknowingly for other people. You know. I've
talked about my friend, doctor Cindy Ray, who had actually
said to me, you know that for one moment we
(03:20):
had in high school when I was an emotional support
animal for her, when our friend Christy had died from
a car accident, that that changed the path of what
type of doctor she became. Right, she changed the picture
for me, and it was such a beautiful gift yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yes, because we're all connected, right, it's all frequency we are.
We vibe with each other, and yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So of course I want to start with a story.
I like to tell me some stories and clearly have
no issue being vulnerable talking about life. So so we
are moments away from the fortieth anniversary of my dad
jumping the planet. I know, we talked about my mom
(04:07):
a lot, and we talked about my dead parents a
lot apparently, But like we talk about Margaret a lot.
Margaret gets a lot of she gets a lot of space,
a lot of airtime. But my dad, you know, he
actually he jumped in nineteen eighty three, and he jumped
about a month before my fourteenth birthday. Oh wow, yep, right,
(04:32):
and for some reason, and I say some reason, but
I think I know the reasons that I think that
I'm far more connected to myself, connected to the world,
more than I had ever been before in my life.
And this is a you know, it's a monumental time.
Forty years is a lot, especially when I'm only turning
fifty four of this this summer. Yeah, right, as a kid,
(04:55):
and when my father passed, my parents were divorced like
they had been divorced since I was five, and my
brother and I used to go to Salt Lake City,
Utah to go visit him. So, uh, it was a
bit of an abbreviated relationship for a young kid, of course. Right.
So this this, this, this death ofversary, I think people
(05:19):
call it, but this, this anniversary, if you will, has
had been weighing on me for a while, right, because
I think those milestones are interesting. I think milestones make
you think of things like whether it's milestones of marriage,
milestones of you know, graduating high school, college and seeing
you know, everything is very milestoney. Right, It's a new word,
milestoney active now. And so this one had really been
(05:45):
weighing on me, and I not weighing in a bad way,
but like present, right, And I think unfinished business would
also be a fair I think we all have unfinished business,
let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I mean they say that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
In every aspect, right. No. I just said to some
of the other day about uh, because I don't know,
some piece of wisdom flew out of my mouth that
wasn't mine. I'm sure it was Jacob's. And they're like,
oh my god, that's so brilliant. And I went, yeah,
I need, but don't worry. I am perfectly imperfect just
like you. Because I'm still alive. It's like, I still
(06:20):
got a lot to do, right, check that box, right. Yeah.
So I figured out a couple days ago what I
think part of that unfinished business, the bit of the
weight do it to this milestone was And actually, I'm
very grateful for technology right now. Because of the Internet.
I paid ninety nine cents to do what I needed
(06:41):
to do, which is which I'll explain in the second
what that was to throw it down right, seriously, ninety
nine cents, I was able to actually take a burden
off my shoulders and likely reframe something for someone else.
But my father, when I was like between I think
ten and twelve, had this amazing girlfriend in her name
(07:01):
was Helen Shirtleff. And Helen was this exquisite woman. I mean,
I remember going to see the Utah Rocky No, that
was Colorida Rockies. Is hockey, you don't had some hockey
game anyway, and his son I see ice hockey game
with my dad and Helen, and she was so kind,
(07:22):
and she was so sweet and very affectionate, and she
was just this really exquisite woman. And I have no
idea why they broke up because they weren't dating when
my dad died, probably because of his I would guess
his alcoholism, but doesn't matter at this point. And he
also and Helen also had a daughter named VICKI and
Vicky actually dad let her live in his downstairs time
(07:44):
and anyways spend a lot of time with Vicky. So,
because of whitepages dot com, you're welcome whitepages dot com,
I paid a whopping ninety nine cents and found that
Helen had jumped the planet nineteen ninety five, and there
was even a photograph of her headstone. I'm into headstone
these days apparently, and the headstone just had her name
(08:09):
on it and date, and it said I love you mom,
And I'm like, well, Vicky was her only child, so
I knew that that must have been you know, it
was Vicky who did it and probably devastated obviously by
losing her mom. And her mom was only fifty three.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, that's right, that's young.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
That's young, right, Yeah, because my dad was four days
from fifty right. So, and now I think about it, boys,
he was dating a younger woman at the time. Way
to go Dad, Wait, you hit it nice move out
at the ballpark on that one. But anyway, so I
(08:45):
like they have been in my thoughts, by the way
for the last forty years. Last time I saw them
was actually at his funeral service in Salt Lake City,
and well that's actually rebels. Suzanne put a very loud
little necklace on her in the charm and so like
she's never a mystery where she is sorry about that
everybody for that little break there. So the other night
(09:08):
I found I even got Vicki's address her there's a
phone number and stuff. It wasn't a call. I just
wanted to write her a letter. So I wrote Vicky
a letter, and I was thanking her for the kindness
that she showed this, you know, young kid from a
broken family and you know obviously juggling that in a
(09:29):
father who had a drinking problem. And I also told
her how amazing I thought her mother was. I thought
her mother was kind, I thought her mother was enchanting.
I thought she had a lot of wisdom. I mean,
it's like I couldn't have I couldn't have written a
nicer list of a hum for a human being. That's
how I felt about her. Mom, isn't that great whole? Right?
(09:53):
And then and then in the letter, I like, you know,
I talked a lot about them, and then I just
gave her quick update like what was going on in
my life. But talking about me wasn't the point. It
was talking about them was the point. And the reason
I think I wanted to talk about it was I
had said at the very end, I said, as much
as I would love to hear back from you, it's
(10:14):
not required. So I didn't do it to hear back.
I didn't do it to be like, oh, thank you,
I don't need to thank you. That's not what this is.
This was to show gratitude forty years later when I
wish I would have done it sooner, but I didn't.
But that's not the point. But it was to show
gratitude and also to add to what her feelings were
(10:38):
about her own mother, like a validation, a changing. We
talk about changing a picture. This is I think, hopefully
making the picture bigger, which is also changing a picture.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, right, isn't that sweet?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So to her her one on one of her mom
made this call it a postcard size, and maybe now
it's just a little bit bigger than a postcard, you know,
because I know when I see people that I haven't
seen for a long time, they're like, oh my god,
you look just like Margaret and holy crap, you still
you act like her do And to me that's a compliment, right,
And so it makes my picture of that bigger. It
(11:09):
changes the picture, right, yeah. Yeah, and so yeah, so
that got put in the mail.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Lovely. I love that. And what a great gift, right,
because the gifts are an offering, is when we are
honoring or being generous of spirit. They We're not doing
it to reciprocate something, right.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's just I don't want to true back.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, it's just a true gift.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, because it's funny. I wrote it really fast. Yeah,
clearly had forty years, so I wrote it.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Really fast, really fast and really slow depending on your framing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Right, right, it was actually quite past the Suzanne said, Tom,
she's because we were upstairs here at our home office,
because we lived in office, and because it technically was
built to be in office. And I'm going down soon,
and she goes, what are you doing? So I'm going
to the printer just print out the list because wait,
what you're done? And I said, I go honey, I go,
(12:05):
I this. I'm not looking for a friend. I'm not
looking to rekindle a relationship that's forty years old. I'm
not looking for I go. I just wanted to say
thank you, and your mom was awesome.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And that's an easy letter, right, It's right.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
That's why it was so easy.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You know? It wasn't to say you know my life.
This wasn't no MEMI me. It was all you, you,
you and your mama. Yeah. So I thought that it
would be kind of an interesting thing for us to
kind of go down this path of talking about reframing. Great.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, let's take a break and come back and play
with that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Let's play. Okay, hold on, y'all. All right, y'all, we're back,
and we're changing the picture. I think my Witchiboo has
if you pay well, and I think you spent your
life changing I don't know, let's just be real honest
about it. I mean, well, you don't only change the picture,
(13:07):
you move where they're hanging in the room.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Nice and nice to work the metaphor. I had a
recent situation, so I am trained as a mediator, and
I was asked to do some employee mediation right where
there's conflict in a team or you know, someone in
the organization's having conflict with someone else. And this happened
to be. Employee A is the team member. Employee B
(13:36):
was the leader. And you know, I did interviews with
people individually and then brought them together. And when I
spoke to Employee B, the story was I was a
new leader. I didn't know how to I didn't know
a lot of how to deal with complicated situations. I
learned a lot. I'm a better leader for it. I
(13:58):
feel bad there they as I couldn't say I didn't
know how to address because of things that were happening
in the background, which often happens in organizations.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And by the way, that's beautiful that somebody such a
screelf awareness and thank god that that person is a leader.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah right, so has some awareness and you know, is
taking responsibility. So when we come together all three of us,
Employee B says these, you know, like takes ownership for
where things could have improved, apologizes. And in this environment,
(14:34):
Employee A kind of went in and that is Lulu,
who's waking up.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
A lot of dogs. So I just want to clarify
for everybody. Employe A in the hierarchy as a subordinate
employee B is the is the boss, the manager, right,
the manager of the session. Okay, I just wanted just
to clarify for everybody to follow along shake notes. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So I'm obviously trying to be very respectful of any identity.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And so.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
When Employee A received the how employee B took leadership
or ownership of the situation, employee was like, yeah, I
know all that. I know you're terrible at your job.
I know you know, and was is still in a
very wounded place, right as Mona would say, down down
(15:25):
the rabbit hole, you know, yeah, and in this way,
and so it was not an overly uplifting conversation environment.
And later when I looped back with the team member
Employee A, the conversation was, no, I don't I don't
even know why I'm in this mediation situation because this
(15:47):
isn't changing anything. I know all that. I know it
was mismanaged, I know that I wasn't valued. I need
these four things to happen, and that's the only way
I'm moving forward. I'm like, thank you very much. You
don't have to do the mediation. This is not a
requirement of your employment, and I you know, I just
encourage you to consider that if we can't find a
(16:07):
way forward, there's no way forward, right because that means.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You shouldn't work there anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, there's no way to go forward. And the employee
a response was, well, why can't you know I've not
worked with you know, employee or my leader productively for
two years. Why would it changed now? Like nothing's going
to change, We're just going to do the work. I'm like, well,
that's not entirely true, because you don't work with bots.
(16:34):
You work with people. You know, people have emotions and feelings,
so you know.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
A bot is not a sentient being. Yeah, exactly, your
boss is a sentient beingient being.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And there was no receptivity to you know, thank you
for saying that, or I appreciate you saying that it's
not okay and you know it was not an okay situation.
I appreciate you not acknowledging that, like there was nothing
like that whatsoever. And so again, just like reframed of
if you as as long as you understand that you
(17:06):
don't you're not required to be in mediation and ending
mediation means that you are not willing to work things
out to move forward unless you see another path forward.
She says, I don't see any other path forward other
than these four things, which were not even in the
realm of possibilities. And and so I went back to
HR and said.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Did they want a public stoning, a firing squad like? Was? It?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Was?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It ridiculous for real life.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It just wasn't available in the current corporate structure.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Got it? So that's what I say, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, And so in this situation, I went back to
HR and said, this is where we are. And they
went forward to explain how come these four things that
were the requirement were not available in the current structure,
and employee said, okay, then I will go back to mediation.
(18:01):
Because there was an awareness after our framing if there's
no way forward, there's no way forward, like if you
don't want to continue to be in conversation, right, remembering
the root word of conversation to change together, come together
verse change like we come together to change and clear
the path to move forward. And so the report I
got back from HR was we are proceeding with mediation.
(18:22):
I about fell off my chair. I'm like, really, how
do we get there? That's fantastic, that's fantastic, you.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Wave their magic wine.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Wait it was me. So this reframing thing can be
really helpful, you know. And just when people get fearful,
we will box ourselves in into a position or into
you know, hold ourselves small or try or make ourselves
bigger to hold someone else small. Like, we do things
(18:52):
that are not helpful all the time, right, And so
this was just an example of that.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I've done that a lot. I mean, I can say yeah, Philly,
oh yeah, of course, either to make myself smaller. I
have in a work environment especially well actually every environment,
I've like front myself to a place where i didn't
want to be seen. And I've also inflated myself where
I've taken up the entire room and nobody had space
in there but me. Yeah, totally understand how that can happen.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It absolutely happens, you know. And sometimes you do it
to protect someone else, like I'll take the bullet, you know,
like you, And sometimes it's just share ego with the
ego sense of I'm trying to survive, right, It's because
it's because that fear is so big, like I'm literally
trying to survive because that's the ego's shop to keep
(19:39):
us alive. And so when we reframe, it can come
out of all kinds of like bigger picture understanding. It
can come from desperation, it can come from aspiration, like
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I love you and your shuns. You sound like
it was. I think it was like that school or
like that Sunday morning, whatever it was, but it was
like conjunction junction watch yu fun shun. You like you
do the shun of it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I like, I'll have to. I'll give it to you
and you can make a song of it.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I will, but I did.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But I think, you know, just human beings in general,
when when we can realize like, oh, I'm holding this
too small, and how can I soften and play the
long game? How can I think of a bigger picture
is really helpful instead of just playing the immediate I
have to win, which is it was really playing small.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Or I'm okay losing. That's the other thing, you know.
I had this situation. I had a friend come visit
just a few days ago, and I love this woman.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Should we take a break and then you come back
and tell it bye. I'd welcome back, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I'm gonna finish.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Tell us about your friend you love I do, and.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I love her. I've known her most of my life.
Our moms were friends. And funny thing is like her
mom because we talked about this. This is just a
side note because it's hilarious because now you see these
two adults. I mean, she's in her early seventies, I'm
in my mid fifties, and it's talking about our mommies.
And it's really funny because it's such an interesting perspective
(21:30):
because her mom was this like super Christian walks, a
very tight line like to how she lived her life,
how she raised the kids, all that kind of stuff.
And then there's my mom where there were no lines,
you know, I mean none. And she said to me,
she goes, you know, she goes, I think the reason
that my mother loved your mother so much as she
(21:52):
wanted to be more like her. And I said, right,
and I go, I think you're right. I think a
lot of women in that small town actually really love
my mom because they needed her to lead the charge
of being who they were and being an individual. So
it was actually really sweet. But what we were talking
about we got super deep, in which I you know me,
(22:12):
I love that, like deeper the better because we always
find out stuff about each other and ourselves when we
had when we talk about that. So I love that.
So we're sitting at this, uh, this restaurant in the
in the plaza here in Santa Fe. It's called the Thunderbird,
and which is also ironic because everything in Miama was
(22:34):
named Thunderbird, with a Thunderbird theater, the Thunderbird restaurant, the
Thunderbird hotel. And here we are sitting at the Thunderbird
in Santa Fe. I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And little shout, you know, clap back.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Isn't that fun?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So she was talking about her like awesome son who's
gay and he's married and and uh uh the boys
adopted a little girl and she's crazy about this granddaughter.
And she's talked about all this progress that she's made
in her life, and part of the progress is trying
(23:09):
to break away from that kind of narrow path that
her mama, you know, paved, and then she goes but
I just don't feel like I'm vulnerable enough, like I've
been vulnerable. And the first thing, literally I said tarka, Well,
let's change that picture. Let's talk about what vulnerability really is.
(23:30):
And talked about a spectrum. I'm like, there's a spectrum
to vulnerable, spectrum to everything, and nothing is black and white.
It's the gray. And that's why I love to swim
in the gray. The black and white is boring, the
gray is phenomenal. Right, yea. And we started talking about
vulnerability and I said, so, I'm just going to tell
you something. She says, what's that? And I go, you bringing
up that you don't feel like you're l vulnerable enough
(23:52):
is actually vulnerable. And she looked at me and I said,
do you see how your picture of your self just changed?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it. I'm already doing I'm.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Doing it right. It's like you just did it, just now,
you just did it. And I just I think that
if we can give ourselves the grace of in those
moments when we are questioning ourselves or feeling less, then
because for her, that was a less than type of comment, right,
(24:25):
that we can start to change the picture of that
and try to understand it more, not to think that
it's either a small definition or it's a black and
white or something like that and kind of live in
that gray, live in that like, all right now I'm
feeling this way and how can I change this? But
how can I understand more about it?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You know? And I think you know Mona would be
would I don't know, but it seems like Mona would
say anytime you're you know, playing at that smaller level
right where you know, I would say, it's fear at play,
whether you're angry, or you're controlling, or you're trying to please,
(25:06):
like all those places are fearful that you're not enough?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Right? Is she there with you? Do you know she is?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yes? So, but I think that that if you're like
she is, well, it's funny because if she wasn't until
like like I didn't know her and she's like right there.
So but but I think, you know, the the being
aware is the first step to kind of catch yourself
(25:34):
and go, how can I play bigger? How can I
actually be okay with exactly who I am? So other
people can be okay with who I am? Because when
you're not, you're not in sync with yourself, people feel
it right, And when you're in sync with yourself, everything's possible.
And then you don't feel like you're losing when you say,
I don't have to hold that position.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And you know, it's interesting because one of the things
that she said to me, not Mona, but my friend,
what is the only identity that we are like, Yeah,
Debbie actually is her name, but she that one thing
that she said. And I because I said, I go, well,
you're all you've always been vulnerable with me, she's but
you're safe. And I said, but here's the thing, flip
it around. No matter what you're saying, you're always safe.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And if as you are, if we really knew how
beautifully and how closely were held by the divine, by
our loved ones, by our guides, we would never fear
or play small, right, We just wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I mean, we wouldn't. And I and I shared with her,
And I know I've talked about this before, so I'll
just do just a quick reminder for everybody, But there
was a time I felt incredibly unsafe for somebody that
I was about to be really vulnerable with. And it
was a boss of mine at Fox and it was
Mark and and I was petrified because that was employment.
(26:53):
He had the power over my job. Yes, that's right.
And I felt very unsafe being as vulnerable as I was,
because I walked in there and said something like, you know,
the first eight months of my misery was my fault.
The last eight months was yours. We talked about it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
You know, and great opening.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That was my opening for real and true to the word,
that was my opening. And I always liked him right
like I didn't. I never disliked him. It's just that
we had a different way of handling things. And then
he started to open up, he started becoming vulnerable to me.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Because because you opened with your vulnerability correct first eight
months on me, I.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Like, I'll own this, and I own certainly the first part.
Second part, I'm going to give to your door prize.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I'm going to be generous here.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I'm going to give you a door prize in
this whole conversation. And and then seriously after that, I mean,
we were like acting like brother and sister. We had
so much fun together. We knew each other, we figured
we'd figured each other out. We were respectful and caring
and supportive. And when he laughed because he left before
the acquisition happened, I was so incredibly devastated. I was
(28:12):
utterly from somebody who at one point I wanted to
throttle his neck to being utterly devastated because we found
our way.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Talk about changing the picture, right, and that's changing the
picture total reframeal I mean completely, I.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Mean not even changing like we changed the room forget
the wall. I mean it just completely changed it. And
but I told her that story about being around somebody
that's incredibly unsafe. That was probably one of the most
unsafe moves I've made. Yeah, ye, but I had to
do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And when we can really do it with that authenticity
and trusting something that's bigger than us, everything's possible.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
And again, like the mediation thing, it does. It may
not happen in the moment. It may not be light
in a bottle like it was for you and Mark,
but it got there right where something something is going
to change.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes, sometimes things like they need to fast, right, and
sometimes it starts with like a spark that turns into
the big awesome fire. Right that that because fire, as
we know, transforms, It transforms, right, it transforms. So I
think that, yes, and so part of it is being patient,
(29:29):
So don't expect that immediate return.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And again, when you can take that bigger picture. To
take the big picture of the long view, it makes
such a difference.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And and the first thing you have to change the
picture for yourself. And then right, and then so I
changed the picture for me and I owned part of it.
I owned my piece and I owned it hard and
it was real. But I did and everything though because
it was.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Hard, because it was hard, it was really hard.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I didn't like it. That was not a pleasant moment.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, it was like, God, what's.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Wrong with you? You know? I went a little bit
through that, and I'm like, Okay, you're human and you know,
and fear and change and all those things, all the
things right and all the things doesn't matter. What is.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
It's all the things, all the things that make us
feel small or make us feel insecure, right, all the
things and exactly and to be able to be compassionate
with yourself and go okay, yep, I did that.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
I think this is an Earth School lesson. Yeah, this
is like, this is so powerful right when. Yeah, I
think it's a big one. I think changing the picture
and how you do it, whether it's through vulnerability or
whether it's just through truth, or however you do to
changed that picture or you broaden something you actually can
start to understand. Like sometimes it's like just giving something
(30:46):
a bigger definition, but it's all about bigger is the point,
you know? Yeah, and yeah, it's a real you know again,
or it's or it's reaching out to somebody that you
haven't seen in forty years, which is, by the way, weird.
Like if I were to get a letter from somebody,
like if if the tables were turned and you know,
(31:06):
Vicky spent ninety nine cents to find.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Me, plus it cost a postage and then.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Write the poste probably costs more than the white pages
dot com did.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But the thing is that I just want to shout
out cosmically right, because the outer planets are all going
retrograde now and so this is the perfect time to revisit.
So there may be other things out there for people
to consider and go, you know what, in retrospect, I
can see this situation differently. There may be opportunities for
people to reach out and go, hey, I wasn't at
my best, or I understand more today better than I
(31:40):
did then, and I just wanted to acknowledge maybe because
what you just.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Said is really interesting because you just said it's not
so much changing the picture, but it's actually seeing the picture, yeah,
because that's what you do. And that's that's part of
it too, is like sometimes you can't see it in
order to change it, right, yeah, or to make it bigger. Well,
when your microscope or something.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, when you're so you know, tied into your current position,
you can only see what you can see. You can't
see what actually is.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah. And I hold very firm that at thirteen, almost fourteen,
I could not see a picture right, So mercy, right.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I'm thinking thirteen months ago. There's a lot of things
I couldn't see right now.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
This is forty years ago, you know, as a kid. Yeah,
but like those are the things because you know what
it is out of all of this that is so important,
ingredients all of it, is that all of it came
from it. It was love, you know, whether it was
love of another, love of self. Like the reason I
did talk to Mark and I wanted to change the
picture because it was love of actually myself. Yeah, you
(32:48):
know with the situation Vickiot was love of she and
her mom, right and what they showed me. You know.
But it's like it's that and with I have a
feeling the person that have atually, you know, person a
or one or whatever their name was or letter number was.
There had to been a shift to change the picture
(33:10):
of like, if I keep doing this, I'm going to
hurt myself and I don't hate myself that I actually
like if not love myself. That's exactly whatever their internal
conversation was.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I believe that's correct. Yeah, yep. So the take to
play the long game, find the love and be compassionate.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So thanks for listening to everybody, and remember our school.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Is hard without the other side. Thank y'all.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Hi, thank you for joining us everyone, and a special
thanks to our producer Joey Patt and our executive producer
Maya Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides, or
shoot us a note at high Hi at Vibes dot store.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Want to know what you think. We want to know
what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
And remember, our school is hard.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Without the other side. Insider's Guide to the Other Side
is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, Apple podcast, or wherever you
get your podcasts
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can. Because, let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh, I have something in store
for you new rhyme. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I am God, I can't wait to see what you
are going to unpack today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Sometimes it feels like I'm packing. Sometimes it feels I
just set a match to the luggage. I sometimes, but
today I didn't set a match to anything. So that's
actually good news for everybody. But you good life good.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I'm good, I'm good traveling. Yeah, it was funny you
should bring up a luggage. I've been dealing with that
a lot, right.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
You know, it's so funny, And I think I've said
this I don't know if I've said on the show
and I've said it to you before that I sometimes,
you know, because like we have that dialogue going on
in her head, and weird shit can go through it,
some of the weird shit that is very consistent for
me speaking of luggage and burning it. But mine is
like I have a fantasy that I lose my phone
and I can't ever find it, and I'm okay with it.
(01:42):
It's a very strange thing. It's like, uh yeah, it's
like it's like the world has gone I think sometimes
too far for me where it's like I just want
to be left alone. I just don't want to. Like
it's like luggage. I don't want to travel, burn the luggage,
lose my phone. I don't want to Might it be
accessible twenty four to seven?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You know that you can like put it in a
drawer and forget about it, right, you can walk away?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, but I think for me, I have to lose it.
But anyway, we're going to cancel clear that because I
really don't have to deal with.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It fair enough.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
So today, Yes, I'm really excited. I think this is
a really great topic and we're calling it changing the
picture and I'm going to have to give that credit
to Mona, who I used to write Miss Mona always
loves to swoop in. She used to talk about when
you're really upset about this usually talked about more about
(02:39):
being upset, but there's a broader definition to it, when
you're really upset about something that you need to be
able to change the picture so you don't get caught
in that kind of you know, dark rabbit hole, because
not everything it has to be like that. And she
would call it, she talk about changing the picture. And
sometimes it's changing the picture for yourself, and sometimes it's
(02:59):
changing the picture for other people. So it's not just
what it does, like you doing it for yourself, which
is also very important, but sometimes we can actually do
it knowingly or unknowingly for other people. You know. I've
talked about my friend, doctor Cindy Ray, who had actually
said to me, you know that for one moment we
(03:20):
had in high school when I was an emotional support
animal for her, when our friend Christy had died from
a car accident, that that changed the path of what
type of doctor she became. Right, she changed the picture
for me, and it was such a beautiful gift yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yes, because we're all connected, right, it's all frequency we are.
We vibe with each other, and yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
So of course I want to start with a story.
I like to tell me some stories and clearly have
no issue being vulnerable talking about life. So so we
are moments away from the fortieth anniversary of my dad
jumping the planet. I know, we talked about my mom
(04:07):
a lot, and we talked about my dead parents a
lot apparently, But like we talk about Margaret a lot.
Margaret gets a lot of she gets a lot of space,
a lot of airtime. But my dad, you know, he
actually he jumped in nineteen eighty three, and he jumped
about a month before my fourteenth birthday. Oh wow, yep, right,
(04:32):
and for some reason, and I say some reason, but
I think I know the reasons that I think that
I'm far more connected to myself, connected to the world,
more than I had ever been before in my life.
And this is a you know, it's a monumental time.
Forty years is a lot, especially when I'm only turning
fifty four of this this summer. Yeah, right, as a kid,
(04:55):
and when my father passed, my parents were divorced like
they had been divorced since I was five, and my
brother and I used to go to Salt Lake City,
Utah to go visit him. So, uh, it was a
bit of an abbreviated relationship for a young kid, of course. Right.
So this this, this, this death ofversary, I think people
(05:19):
call it, but this, this anniversary, if you will, has
had been weighing on me for a while, right, because
I think those milestones are interesting. I think milestones make
you think of things like whether it's milestones of marriage,
milestones of you know, graduating high school, college and seeing
you know, everything is very milestoney. Right, It's a new word,
milestoney active now. And so this one had really been
(05:45):
weighing on me, and I not weighing in a bad way,
but like present, right, And I think unfinished business would
also be a fair I think we all have unfinished business,
let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I mean they say that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
In every aspect, right. No. I just said to some
of the other day about uh, because I don't know,
some piece of wisdom flew out of my mouth that
wasn't mine. I'm sure it was Jacob's. And they're like,
oh my god, that's so brilliant. And I went, yeah,
I need, but don't worry. I am perfectly imperfect just
like you. Because I'm still alive. It's like, I still
(06:20):
got a lot to do, right, check that box, right. Yeah.
So I figured out a couple days ago what I
think part of that unfinished business, the bit of the
weight do it to this milestone was And actually, I'm
very grateful for technology right now. Because of the Internet.
I paid ninety nine cents to do what I needed
(06:41):
to do, which is which I'll explain in the second
what that was to throw it down right, seriously, ninety
nine cents, I was able to actually take a burden
off my shoulders and likely reframe something for someone else.
But my father, when I was like between I think
ten and twelve, had this amazing girlfriend in her name
(07:01):
was Helen Shirtleff. And Helen was this exquisite woman. I mean,
I remember going to see the Utah Rocky No, that
was Colorida Rockies. Is hockey, you don't had some hockey
game anyway, and his son I see ice hockey game
with my dad and Helen, and she was so kind,
(07:22):
and she was so sweet and very affectionate, and she
was just this really exquisite woman. And I have no
idea why they broke up because they weren't dating when
my dad died, probably because of his I would guess
his alcoholism, but doesn't matter at this point. And he
also and Helen also had a daughter named VICKI and
Vicky actually dad let her live in his downstairs time
(07:44):
and anyways spend a lot of time with Vicky. So,
because of whitepages dot com, you're welcome whitepages dot com,
I paid a whopping ninety nine cents and found that
Helen had jumped the planet nineteen ninety five, and there
was even a photograph of her headstone. I'm into headstone
these days apparently, and the headstone just had her name
(08:09):
on it and date, and it said I love you mom,
And I'm like, well, Vicky was her only child, so
I knew that that must have been you know, it
was Vicky who did it and probably devastated obviously by
losing her mom. And her mom was only fifty three.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, that's right, that's young.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
That's young, right, Yeah, because my dad was four days
from fifty right. So, and now I think about it, boys,
he was dating a younger woman at the time. Way
to go Dad, Wait, you hit it nice move out
at the ballpark on that one. But anyway, so I
(08:45):
like they have been in my thoughts, by the way
for the last forty years. Last time I saw them
was actually at his funeral service in Salt Lake City,
and well that's actually rebels. Suzanne put a very loud
little necklace on her in the charm and so like
she's never a mystery where she is sorry about that
everybody for that little break there. So the other night
(09:08):
I found I even got Vicki's address her there's a
phone number and stuff. It wasn't a call. I just
wanted to write her a letter. So I wrote Vicky
a letter, and I was thanking her for the kindness
that she showed this, you know, young kid from a
broken family and you know obviously juggling that in a
(09:29):
father who had a drinking problem. And I also told
her how amazing I thought her mother was. I thought
her mother was kind, I thought her mother was enchanting.
I thought she had a lot of wisdom. I mean,
it's like I couldn't have I couldn't have written a
nicer list of a hum for a human being. That's
how I felt about her. Mom, isn't that great whole? Right?
(09:53):
And then and then in the letter, I like, you know,
I talked a lot about them, and then I just
gave her quick update like what was going on in
my life. But talking about me wasn't the point. It
was talking about them was the point. And the reason
I think I wanted to talk about it was I
had said at the very end, I said, as much
as I would love to hear back from you, it's
(10:14):
not required. So I didn't do it to hear back.
I didn't do it to be like, oh, thank you,
I don't need to thank you. That's not what this is.
This was to show gratitude forty years later when I
wish I would have done it sooner, but I didn't.
But that's not the point. But it was to show
gratitude and also to add to what her feelings were
(10:38):
about her own mother, like a validation, a changing. We
talk about changing a picture. This is I think, hopefully
making the picture bigger, which is also changing a picture.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, right, isn't that sweet?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So to her her one on one of her mom
made this call it a postcard size, and maybe now
it's just a little bit bigger than a postcard, you know,
because I know when I see people that I haven't
seen for a long time, they're like, oh my god,
you look just like Margaret and holy crap, you still
you act like her do And to me that's a compliment, right,
And so it makes my picture of that bigger. It
(11:09):
changes the picture, right, yeah. Yeah, and so yeah, so
that got put in the mail.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Lovely. I love that. And what a great gift, right,
because the gifts are an offering, is when we are
honoring or being generous of spirit. They We're not doing
it to reciprocate something, right.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's just I don't want to true back.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, it's just a true gift.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, because it's funny. I wrote it really fast. Yeah,
clearly had forty years, so I wrote it.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Really fast, really fast and really slow depending on your framing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Right, right, it was actually quite past the Suzanne said, Tom,
she's because we were upstairs here at our home office,
because we lived in office, and because it technically was
built to be in office. And I'm going down soon,
and she goes, what are you doing? So I'm going
to the printer just print out the list because wait,
what you're done? And I said, I go honey, I go,
(12:05):
I this. I'm not looking for a friend. I'm not
looking to rekindle a relationship that's forty years old. I'm
not looking for I go. I just wanted to say
thank you, and your mom was awesome.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And that's an easy letter, right, It's right.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
That's why it was so easy.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, isn't that great?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
You know? It wasn't to say you know my life.
This wasn't no MEMI me. It was all you, you,
you and your mama. Yeah. So I thought that it
would be kind of an interesting thing for us to
kind of go down this path of talking about reframing. Great.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, let's take a break and come back and play
with that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Let's play. Okay, hold on, y'all. All right, y'all, we're back,
and we're changing the picture. I think my Witchiboo has
if you pay well, and I think you spent your
life changing I don't know, let's just be real honest
about it. I mean, well, you don't only change the picture,
(13:07):
you move where they're hanging in the room.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Nice and nice to work the metaphor. I had a
recent situation, so I am trained as a mediator, and
I was asked to do some employee mediation right where
there's conflict in a team or you know, someone in
the organization's having conflict with someone else. And this happened
to be. Employee A is the team member. Employee B
(13:36):
was the leader. And you know, I did interviews with
people individually and then brought them together. And when I
spoke to Employee B, the story was I was a
new leader. I didn't know how to I didn't know
a lot of how to deal with complicated situations. I
learned a lot. I'm a better leader for it. I
(13:58):
feel bad there they as I couldn't say I didn't
know how to address because of things that were happening
in the background, which often happens in organizations.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And by the way, that's beautiful that somebody such a
screelf awareness and thank god that that person is a leader.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah right, so has some awareness and you know, is
taking responsibility. So when we come together all three of us,
Employee B says these, you know, like takes ownership for
where things could have improved, apologizes. And in this environment,
(14:34):
Employee A kind of went in and that is Lulu,
who's waking up.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
A lot of dogs. So I just want to clarify
for everybody. Employe A in the hierarchy as a subordinate
employee B is the is the boss, the manager, right,
the manager of the session. Okay, I just wanted just
to clarify for everybody to follow along shake notes. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
So I'm obviously trying to be very respectful of any identity.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And so.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
When Employee A received the how employee B took leadership
or ownership of the situation, employee was like, yeah, I
know all that. I know you're terrible at your job.
I know you know, and was is still in a
very wounded place, right as Mona would say, down down
(15:25):
the rabbit hole, you know, yeah, and in this way,
and so it was not an overly uplifting conversation environment.
And later when I looped back with the team member
Employee A, the conversation was, no, I don't I don't
even know why I'm in this mediation situation because this
(15:47):
isn't changing anything. I know all that. I know it
was mismanaged, I know that I wasn't valued. I need
these four things to happen, and that's the only way
I'm moving forward. I'm like, thank you very much. You
don't have to do the mediation. This is not a
requirement of your employment, and I you know, I just
encourage you to consider that if we can't find a
(16:07):
way forward, there's no way forward, right because that means.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You shouldn't work there anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, there's no way to go forward. And the employee
a response was, well, why can't you know I've not
worked with you know, employee or my leader productively for
two years. Why would it changed now? Like nothing's going
to change, We're just going to do the work. I'm like, well,
that's not entirely true, because you don't work with bots.
(16:34):
You work with people. You know, people have emotions and feelings,
so you know.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
A bot is not a sentient being. Yeah, exactly, your
boss is a sentient beingient being.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And there was no receptivity to you know, thank you
for saying that, or I appreciate you saying that it's
not okay and you know it was not an okay situation.
I appreciate you not acknowledging that, like there was nothing
like that whatsoever. And so again, just like reframed of
if you as as long as you understand that you
(17:06):
don't you're not required to be in mediation and ending
mediation means that you are not willing to work things
out to move forward unless you see another path forward.
She says, I don't see any other path forward other
than these four things, which were not even in the
realm of possibilities. And and so I went back to
HR and said.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Did they want a public stoning, a firing squad like? Was? It?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Was?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It ridiculous for real life.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It just wasn't available in the current corporate structure.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Got it? So that's what I say, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, And so in this situation, I went back to
HR and said, this is where we are. And they
went forward to explain how come these four things that
were the requirement were not available in the current structure,
and employee said, okay, then I will go back to mediation.
(18:01):
Because there was an awareness after our framing if there's
no way forward, there's no way forward, like if you
don't want to continue to be in conversation, right, remembering
the root word of conversation to change together, come together
verse change like we come together to change and clear
the path to move forward. And so the report I
got back from HR was we are proceeding with mediation.
(18:22):
I about fell off my chair. I'm like, really, how
do we get there? That's fantastic, that's fantastic, you.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Wave their magic wine.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Wait it was me. So this reframing thing can be
really helpful, you know. And just when people get fearful,
we will box ourselves in into a position or into
you know, hold ourselves small or try or make ourselves
bigger to hold someone else small. Like, we do things
(18:52):
that are not helpful all the time, right, And so
this was just an example of that.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I've done that a lot. I mean, I can say yeah, Philly,
oh yeah, of course, either to make myself smaller. I
have in a work environment especially well actually every environment,
I've like front myself to a place where i didn't
want to be seen. And I've also inflated myself where
I've taken up the entire room and nobody had space
in there but me. Yeah, totally understand how that can happen.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It absolutely happens, you know. And sometimes you do it
to protect someone else, like I'll take the bullet, you know,
like you, And sometimes it's just share ego with the
ego sense of I'm trying to survive, right, It's because
it's because that fear is so big, like I'm literally
trying to survive because that's the ego's shop to keep
(19:39):
us alive. And so when we reframe, it can come
out of all kinds of like bigger picture understanding. It
can come from desperation, it can come from aspiration, like
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I love you and your shuns. You sound like
it was. I think it was like that school or
like that Sunday morning, whatever it was, but it was
like conjunction junction watch yu fun shun. You like you
do the shun of it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I like, I'll have to. I'll give it to you
and you can make a song of it.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I will, but I did.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
But I think, you know, just human beings in general,
when when we can realize like, oh, I'm holding this
too small, and how can I soften and play the
long game? How can I think of a bigger picture
is really helpful instead of just playing the immediate I
have to win, which is it was really playing small.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Or I'm okay losing. That's the other thing, you know.
I had this situation. I had a friend come visit
just a few days ago, and I love this woman.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Should we take a break and then you come back
and tell it bye. I'd welcome back, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I'm gonna finish.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Tell us about your friend you love I do, and.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I love her. I've known her most of my life.
Our moms were friends. And funny thing is like her
mom because we talked about this. This is just a
side note because it's hilarious because now you see these
two adults. I mean, she's in her early seventies, I'm
in my mid fifties, and it's talking about our mommies.
And it's really funny because it's such an interesting perspective
(21:30):
because her mom was this like super Christian walks, a
very tight line like to how she lived her life,
how she raised the kids, all that kind of stuff.
And then there's my mom where there were no lines,
you know, I mean none. And she said to me,
she goes, you know, she goes, I think the reason
that my mother loved your mother so much as she
(21:52):
wanted to be more like her. And I said, right,
and I go, I think you're right. I think a
lot of women in that small town actually really love
my mom because they needed her to lead the charge
of being who they were and being an individual. So
it was actually really sweet. But what we were talking
about we got super deep, in which I you know me,
(22:12):
I love that, like deeper the better because we always
find out stuff about each other and ourselves when we
had when we talk about that. So I love that.
So we're sitting at this, uh, this restaurant in the
in the plaza here in Santa Fe. It's called the Thunderbird,
and which is also ironic because everything in Miama was
(22:34):
named Thunderbird, with a Thunderbird theater, the Thunderbird restaurant, the
Thunderbird hotel. And here we are sitting at the Thunderbird
in Santa Fe. I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
And little shout, you know, clap back.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Isn't that fun?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So she was talking about her like awesome son who's
gay and he's married and and uh uh the boys
adopted a little girl and she's crazy about this granddaughter.
And she's talked about all this progress that she's made
in her life, and part of the progress is trying
(23:09):
to break away from that kind of narrow path that
her mama, you know, paved, and then she goes but
I just don't feel like I'm vulnerable enough, like I've
been vulnerable. And the first thing, literally I said tarka, Well,
let's change that picture. Let's talk about what vulnerability really is.
(23:30):
And talked about a spectrum. I'm like, there's a spectrum
to vulnerable, spectrum to everything, and nothing is black and white.
It's the gray. And that's why I love to swim
in the gray. The black and white is boring, the
gray is phenomenal. Right, yea. And we started talking about
vulnerability and I said, so, I'm just going to tell
you something. She says, what's that? And I go, you bringing
up that you don't feel like you're l vulnerable enough
(23:52):
is actually vulnerable. And she looked at me and I said,
do you see how your picture of your self just changed?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it. I'm already doing I'm.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Doing it right. It's like you just did it, just now,
you just did it. And I just I think that
if we can give ourselves the grace of in those
moments when we are questioning ourselves or feeling less, then
because for her, that was a less than type of comment, right,
(24:25):
that we can start to change the picture of that
and try to understand it more, not to think that
it's either a small definition or it's a black and
white or something like that and kind of live in
that gray, live in that like, all right now I'm
feeling this way and how can I change this? But
how can I understand more about it?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
You know? And I think you know Mona would be
would I don't know, but it seems like Mona would
say anytime you're you know, playing at that smaller level
right where you know, I would say, it's fear at play,
whether you're angry, or you're controlling, or you're trying to please,
(25:06):
like all those places are fearful that you're not enough?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Right? Is she there with you? Do you know she is?
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yes? So, but I think that that if you're like
she is, well, it's funny because if she wasn't until
like like I didn't know her and she's like right there.
So but but I think, you know, the the being
aware is the first step to kind of catch yourself
(25:34):
and go, how can I play bigger? How can I
actually be okay with exactly who I am? So other
people can be okay with who I am? Because when
you're not, you're not in sync with yourself, people feel
it right, And when you're in sync with yourself, everything's possible.
And then you don't feel like you're losing when you say,
I don't have to hold that position.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And you know, it's interesting because one of the things
that she said to me, not Mona, but my friend,
what is the only identity that we are like, Yeah,
Debbie actually is her name, but she that one thing
that she said. And I because I said, I go, well,
you're all you've always been vulnerable with me, she's but
you're safe. And I said, but here's the thing, flip
it around. No matter what you're saying, you're always safe.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And if as you are, if we really knew how
beautifully and how closely were held by the divine, by
our loved ones, by our guides, we would never fear
or play small, right, We just wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I mean, we wouldn't. And I and I shared with her,
And I know I've talked about this before, so I'll
just do just a quick reminder for everybody, But there
was a time I felt incredibly unsafe for somebody that
I was about to be really vulnerable with. And it
was a boss of mine at Fox and it was
Mark and and I was petrified because that was employment.
(26:53):
He had the power over my job. Yes, that's right.
And I felt very unsafe being as vulnerable as I was,
because I walked in there and said something like, you know,
the first eight months of my misery was my fault.
The last eight months was yours. We talked about it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
You know, and great opening.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That was my opening for real and true to the word,
that was my opening. And I always liked him right
like I didn't. I never disliked him. It's just that
we had a different way of handling things. And then
he started to open up, he started becoming vulnerable to me.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Because because you opened with your vulnerability correct first eight
months on me, I.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Like, I'll own this, and I own certainly the first part.
Second part, I'm going to give to your door prize.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I'm going to be generous here.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I'm going to give you a door prize in
this whole conversation. And and then seriously after that, I mean,
we were like acting like brother and sister. We had
so much fun together. We knew each other, we figured
we'd figured each other out. We were respectful and caring
and supportive. And when he laughed because he left before
the acquisition happened, I was so incredibly devastated. I was
(28:12):
utterly from somebody who at one point I wanted to
throttle his neck to being utterly devastated because we found
our way.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Talk about changing the picture, right, and that's changing the
picture total reframeal I mean completely, I.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Mean not even changing like we changed the room forget
the wall. I mean it just completely changed it. And
but I told her that story about being around somebody
that's incredibly unsafe. That was probably one of the most
unsafe moves I've made. Yeah, ye, but I had to
do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
And when we can really do it with that authenticity
and trusting something that's bigger than us, everything's possible.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
And again, like the mediation thing, it does. It may
not happen in the moment. It may not be light
in a bottle like it was for you and Mark,
but it got there right where something something is going
to change.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes, sometimes things like they need to fast, right, and
sometimes it starts with like a spark that turns into
the big awesome fire. Right that that because fire, as
we know, transforms, It transforms, right, it transforms. So I
think that, yes, and so part of it is being patient,
(29:29):
So don't expect that immediate return.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And again, when you can take that bigger picture. To
take the big picture of the long view, it makes
such a difference.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And and the first thing you have to change the
picture for yourself. And then right, and then so I
changed the picture for me and I owned part of it.
I owned my piece and I owned it hard and
it was real. But I did and everything though because
it was.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Hard, because it was hard, it was really hard.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I didn't like it. That was not a pleasant moment.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, it was like, God, what's.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Wrong with you? You know? I went a little bit
through that, and I'm like, Okay, you're human and you know,
and fear and change and all those things, all the
things right and all the things doesn't matter. What is.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
It's all the things, all the things that make us
feel small or make us feel insecure, right, all the
things and exactly and to be able to be compassionate
with yourself and go okay, yep, I did that.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
I think this is an Earth School lesson. Yeah, this
is like, this is so powerful right when. Yeah, I
think it's a big one. I think changing the picture
and how you do it, whether it's through vulnerability or
whether it's just through truth, or however you do to
changed that picture or you broaden something you actually can
start to understand. Like sometimes it's like just giving something
(30:46):
a bigger definition, but it's all about bigger is the point,
you know? Yeah, and yeah, it's a real you know again,
or it's or it's reaching out to somebody that you
haven't seen in forty years, which is, by the way, weird.
Like if I were to get a letter from somebody,
like if if the tables were turned and you know,
(31:06):
Vicky spent ninety nine cents to find.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Me, plus it cost a postage and then.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Write the poste probably costs more than the white pages
dot com did.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But the thing is that I just want to shout
out cosmically right, because the outer planets are all going
retrograde now and so this is the perfect time to revisit.
So there may be other things out there for people
to consider and go, you know what, in retrospect, I
can see this situation differently. There may be opportunities for
people to reach out and go, hey, I wasn't at
my best, or I understand more today better than I
(31:40):
did then, and I just wanted to acknowledge maybe because
what you just.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Said is really interesting because you just said it's not
so much changing the picture, but it's actually seeing the picture, yeah,
because that's what you do. And that's that's part of
it too, is like sometimes you can't see it in
order to change it, right, yeah, or to make it bigger. Well,
when your microscope or something.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, when you're so you know, tied into your current position,
you can only see what you can see. You can't
see what actually is.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah. And I hold very firm that at thirteen, almost fourteen,
I could not see a picture right, So mercy, right.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I'm thinking thirteen months ago. There's a lot of things
I couldn't see right now.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
This is forty years ago, you know, as a kid. Yeah,
but like those are the things because you know what
it is out of all of this that is so important,
ingredients all of it, is that all of it came
from it. It was love, you know, whether it was
love of another, love of self. Like the reason I
did talk to Mark and I wanted to change the
picture because it was love of actually myself. Yeah, you
(32:48):
know with the situation Vickiot was love of she and
her mom, right and what they showed me. You know.
But it's like it's that and with I have a
feeling the person that have atually, you know, person a
or one or whatever their name was or letter number was.
There had to been a shift to change the picture
(33:10):
of like, if I keep doing this, I'm going to
hurt myself and I don't hate myself that I actually
like if not love myself. That's exactly whatever their internal
conversation was.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I believe that's correct. Yeah, yep. So the take to
play the long game, find the love and be compassionate.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So thanks for listening to everybody, and remember our school.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Is hard without the other side. Thank y'all.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Hi, thank you for joining us everyone, and a special
thanks to our producer Joey Patt and our executive producer
Maya Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides, or
shoot us a note at high Hi at Vibes dot store.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Want to know what you think. We want to know
what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
And remember, our school is hard.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Without the other side. Insider's Guide to the Other Side
is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
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