August 21, 2024 • 36 mins
It's a bird, it's a plane, it's.... a Dragon?!?
Invoking fear and flying with flourish, Dragons have mystified humans since the birth of recorded time. Today we'll discuss how Dragons have been perceived through the lenses of Literature, Art, Film, Science, History, and Religion. Julie and Brenda share real and personal tales of these powerful beasts, lending fact to these oft-dismissed fire-breathing beauties. So tune in for Part Three of our Folklore series, because...
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can. Because let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh, stop dragging my heart around.
I don't know. I didn't kind of a good one,
but I have a right. I spell it different than
he did.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Nice, I like it. I like it a lot. So
today we get to talk about draker.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Hell, yes we do, and speaking of dragon like using it,
you know, more as a verb. So you remember that
when Susanne and I drove to Phoenix, which is also
interesting related to this whole dragon story. But we went
to Phoenix, which is right after my experience when I
(01:29):
went into their world, which we'll get to at the end.
But here's what's funny. I bought this big metal dragon.
We went to Phoenix because I picked up my my,
my Ralph Lauren Ryder's chairs from this couple that was
selling them, okay, and we rented a truck. So we
have these two chairs on this truck. We decide to
stop in Sedona, because that's what you do. And I
(01:51):
found this big metal dragon and we tied it into
in the truck and the whole time I drove my
wife nuts. It was also of four days before that
was the first time I talked to somebody from the
other side. But the funny part about the dragons, I
kept saying, stop dragon, my dragon, and I just thought
I was so funny. And then we ended up naming
it Olivia Pope from the Showandal Scandal I know, Oh
(02:18):
my gosh, if I had a prize I could give
you through the screen, I would give you a prize.
But anyway, so, so Olivia Pope sits outside of my casita.
Oh my god, that's so hilarious. Yeah, photo, oh totally.
And actually we had this kind of stump, like a
tree stump over here. I kept saying, Susanna, go, can
(02:39):
we put Olivia Pope on the stump and she's like, baby,
you can put your goddamn dragon wherever you want to.
I said, yes, freedom to decorate with dragons. Okay, so
we're talking about dragons. I jumped in real fast to
that one.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You couldn't You couldn't I keep that one.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I could not keep that. I have a metal dragon
name Olivia Pope in front of my Casidia.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I mean, come on, come on, that's pretty good, that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
In fact, when we moved her, she has wings, and
we somehow forgot to pack them. And you know, my
high school boyfriend John, well, hold on, if there's a
good ending, my high school boyfriend John and his husband
went to our house and got them and they kept them.
And when they drove they brought us Olivia's wings and
(03:25):
we all had like a little moment where we put
her wings on her and all was right in the world. Okay, sons, Wow,
I think I said before we started, we're not going
to jump in, and I'm like, you just jumped on in.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So here's the thing about dragons. Dragons, you know, have
this this presence, right, this bigness, this powerfulness, and when
I think in my typical elfin way in terms of
filmed entertainment, I think about, wow, well, how like this
is interesting? Like how have they been picted it? And
(04:01):
there's two versions I just want to quickly talk about.
And one is because I also worked on a few
of these movies. The do you ever see the how
How to Train Your Dragon? The animated? Okay, so I
love that. I will tell you that. I think it
was the third one. I remember we went to the
DreamWorks studio a lot in Los Angeles, and there's we
(04:22):
were about six seven of us were invited to go
watch it before we released it, and it's probably months
before we did. And I sat there and I was
crying so hard at the end of that third one
that I went and hid in the bathroom until everybody left,
because I mean I was like not presentable, like I
somebody been like what literally, what's wrong with her? Oh?
(04:45):
My god? I love it so much. So anyway, here's
what's interesting about that. If you think about How to
Train Your Dragon? It was set in kind of prehistoric
ish times, right. Yeah, So even they spoke in it,
because it's a movie, they didn't exactly you know, the
(05:05):
way they lived was very prehistoric, right, And tooth close
to the earth, very close to the earth, right, I
mean right, it was they used you know, fire and
stones and stuff like that, and a lot of mythology, right,
And actually there was a mythology in the movie about
dragons until they actually saw one who was toothless the
(05:29):
dragon and Footnote to everybody, if I haven't already said this,
I may have. Is the reason why we all love
Toothless the dragon is because they modeled Toothless after a dog. Yes,
so you like toothless wag's tail in his body and
rolls around like that's part of how he developed that
really like a puppy, how you developed the love for him.
(05:52):
So that was you know, a dragon as a friend, right,
not as a foe, not as a weapon, right, Like
that's like tooth was a part of the family effectively.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, And that that's very different lore than dragons usually have.
Dragons are usually something to be feared, something to be conquered,
something to be avoided, like in the mythology.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Right, do you want to know when that changed because
it actually didn't start that way.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
That's correct, that's that's more modern.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
But it is it is because it was you know,
dragons had a they had a a a friendlier view, right.
I don't know the best way to say it, but
it was.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It was more like I'm going to work with you.
I mean, it's more of a partnership than an adversary. Yes, right,
but this is ancient times. Well it was pre Christian, right,
pre Christian times. But it was something that you could
give it an assignment of of you being the gatekeeper.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Right, right, right, because they they were they right. They
were seen as useful and protective and and there were
elements that were harmful and dangerous, but it wasn't it's like, listen,
everything's harmful and dangerous if you well.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It's harmful and dangerous if you're if you're trying to
breach the perimeter, right, then it's going to be harmful
and dangerage dangerous. But if you don't do that, it's
it's it wasn't seen as something that would just destroy
you on site.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Right, So so if you think about how to train
your dragon, that's like a pre Christian view. And they
were friends, and they were friends, right, I mean it
was the children's or a family movie. But and then
came Game of Thrones, right, So Game of Thrones they
(07:49):
they were still that still existed, meaning the useful protective
because there was because there was always family of like
within the because the Game of Three owns like the
different games were different families and all trying to see power.
And one family was like the family of dragons, and
so there was a friend.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
On the one family had dragons.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, okay, yes, the other ones tried to get them.
You can imagine because they were saying so powerful, right, yeah,
but that had that I think if I looked at
a timeline was later than if I had to put
a timeline to how to train the dragons. So you
saw more of like the fire that they were creating
(08:37):
that would come out of their mouth. You would see
them like destroy right where you did. Like obviously Toothless
wasn't a destroyer boy his every move you know, he.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was a puppy.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
He was a puppy. So but it is actually really
interesting how dragons have been depicted throughout what we can
see in time or thought of you out time and
I think even you look at the touau, right yeah,
so are you to show me the card?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Show you and no one else has this visual but
in my deck called the beauty of terrou The five
of fire is has a dragon sitting on top of
a roof with five flames at its feet. Right, and
so this, this dragon actually represents power to choose right,
(09:27):
power to choose to protect.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Really, well, you're either have to slay your own dragon
or it's going to slay you. Right.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Well, the dragon, the dragon is really represents yourself right
where others are judging you or transformation is available. So
what are you going to do? Right? Are you going
to succumb to make people happy? Or are you going
to fly away and suit yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, I'm gonna fly away and I'm gonna like spit
fire at people. Does that count?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And we're going to fly away right now and take
a little break. We'll be right back and welcome back.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Thanks, I'm ready, I'm right. I know. I was just
messing with you. Have a little pause to be like, wait,
what's she gonna do?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Wait? What did I miss up there? All right? So
nerdy alf, what do you got for us? Tell us
more about dragon lore?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
D r A g O N not d r A
g g I N. So it's it's it's you know,
I learned. I love this part. I love to dig
around in this and read have conversations with you about it.
I learned so much about it. So here's what's interesting
about at least the origin of dragons. And the interesting
(10:48):
part is that nobody actually knows when it began.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like this just like.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
They don't exactly right, but it doesn't it feel so
ancient though, Like dragons feel like they have been a part.
I mean, if you look at where they are known,
like culture, it's you've said before when we were talking,
you know about fairies, it's it's it's a global sensation,
kind of like Taylor Swift global sensation. And so there's
(11:22):
all parts. The one that I actually think probably has
embraced the most, and it's also credibly old culture is
Chinese culture. And so China has very much embraced the dragons.
You know, in their New York celebration, they always have
dragons feature they have people that are holding them, and
(11:42):
they crazy these incredibly yeah, these credibly long dragons, and
they have dancers underneath them, and it's very much a
part of their culture. But it's but they've been seen,
you know, from America to Europe, from India to China, right,
like they've just been all over in terms of our culture.
(12:03):
But I do think it's interesting that we don't know
when or where. If I had guess, I still would
guess China is where it originated because it feels like
it's really strong there. Did you get the same?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And well, I would say documented probably documented.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Okay, that's fair. Yeah, but they but what they what
the interneteb tells me is that these huge flying serpents
were described at least as early as the age of
the ancient Greeks and Samerians.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, and I think China would have been but.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Before that I think so too.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So yeah, I'm fully with you. This is part of
the funny, y'all. It's like Brenda doesn't know any of
like what I'm going to talk about, and we do
it on purpose because it's more real for you guys.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I would also say, though, even when we have like
dinosaurs being discovered right today, like they'll have bones, but
they'll also like find little dragons, like they you know,
they had little flying denisaur bones discovered in the past
couple of years, right, and they will also identify as dragons,
(13:11):
so they're like, well this would be considered just a dragon.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, Like it. It's so like even there's there's like
legitimus to it because of because of that.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So so it's so, well, let's hit on that for
a second and then I'll and I'm going to pivot
us in a minute to Christianity. And what it change
is that you know it today. If you ask somebody
on the street, do you believe that dragons fly in
the sky, They're probably going to say no, right, unless
you're in New Orleans and it's one am, because I
(13:44):
would have said.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yes then totally.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But that's modern day, right. So what's interesting is I
want to go back to and I always bring this
up because this is you know, I did not learn
history in high school because I went to MoMA, Oklahoma
High School. But I have had to like postpone that
part of my life, so at least now I remember
it because it's all recent to me. Is that what's
interesting about the evolution of mankind and I don't mean
(14:13):
physical evolution, I mean more of our reading writing, like
just being literate. Right, so when we were illiterate, there
is a pattern that has emerged over the last five
hundred plus years. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned this
about the fairies. Is what happens is we don't you
(14:37):
know people, you know, they create stories, they tell stories.
Sometimes it's for morality reasons, sometimes it's actually for control reasons.
And then you start to get the artists involved and
then they start to create something different for it. And
that is certainly you know what has happened with the
(14:59):
Draggans in terms of what people believe that dragons were real.
They started to dig up during that time, these very
large bones, right, so they're digging up large bones around
the world believing they're from dragons, but they were dinosaurs
because we were illiterate.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And I mean they just didn't know.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
They didn't know. But so science, literacy, those things I
suldly add science. So science and literacy is the reason
why you can ask somebody unless they're hammered in uh,
in the French Quarter in any city really, but New
Orleans is a favor of mine. They're like, no, they're
not flying around, right because of literacy and science. But
(15:46):
imagine before that and you're digging up this bony. You've
heard stories of this magical wing creature that's like spit
fire doing whatever it's doing. You're like, damn, it's got
to be real.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, so these are here it is.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, they were very real to people, and I think
that's so important for us to understand. These were very
very real. So and I just want to add that
to your point about when people were finding like the
dinosaurs and finding little you know, bones and that they
say like they were dragons. So I'm going to pivot
back to Christianity because this is really interesting. Are you
ready for me to pivot back to Christianity? Okay, So
(16:26):
remember we've been talking pre christian Now we're going to
hit this Christianity. And so when Christianity anity started spread
across the globe, dragons took on a very different interpretation
than what they did prior. Right, because prior they were useful,
protective things like that. Christianity hit and it took it
(16:49):
hit boom, Christianity hit, Christianity hashtag Christianity hit and they
became very sinister. Right. There wasn't the there was no
benevolence to it. There wasn't like I'm going to protect you.
There wasn't like, you know, toothless type of vision. Became
(17:13):
very sinister because what the Christians did is that they
they turned it to represent Satan. We've talked before about this,
and it's okay if people don't believe, but the history
books do show that that Christianity invented Satan.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, there was no devil in the Bible before the
I get it. I can't. It's gone on my head
that the one conclave that they had and then they decided,
we couldn't get people to comply, so we have to
invent the devil.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
We have to scare them.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, we have to create compliance. Yeah. Right, And so
they took something that was powerful and meaningful to the
two cultures and they said you are now mine, and
we're making you the devil. Right, I mean, that's they
They kind of took out took the the figure of
the dragon, and that's what they base say.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
That they did. In fact, I think, okay, I'm going
to confess I did, like go to episcopal charts and stuff,
but that's actually part of my life. I don't remember, so,
but but I do have this in front of me.
Is that a character in the Bible, let's say Levithan. Okay,
(18:31):
there is a massive monster described in detail in the
Book of Job chapter forty one, and that sounds like
a dragon. So this is after revisions, right, and this
is all in quotes. It is. It's back has rows
of shields, tightly sealed together, each so close to the
(18:54):
next that no air can pass between. They are joined
fast to one another. They cling together and not be parted.
Its snorting throws out flashes of light. Its eyes are
like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from the mouth,
Sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils
(19:15):
as from a boat boiling pot over burning reeds. Its
breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Sounds like a dragon.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, the Beleef and Dragons was based not just on legend,
but well actually they created a legend and and and
and it's interesting right because all like this has been written.
People were finding bones, they're putting pieces together. It's kind
of like, you know, it does remind me a little
bit of Bigfoot, even because like anybody who finds a
(19:50):
large but like, oh, this is what bigfoot. I have
a picture of Bigfoot or I saw Bigfoot, you know.
So it's just it's just it's it's fascinating. It's the
our journey as humans. Right again, I'm going back to
literacy and science. It's a really interesting path because you know,
(20:11):
I've studied quite a bit about the UH about the
Spanish conquistadors, and and what you find and what I
have found while researching this is it's very much the
same pattern. Because it's like early days like the Aztecs,
the Incas, the Mayans. You know, they they believed in
(20:34):
multiple gods. They believe that when the sun came up,
it's because one of their gods said it was okay, right,
kind of like dragons in that in that respect, and
then and and an event happens. And so in this
case with the tribes of South America, uh, it was
(20:54):
the Spaniards. In the case of dragons, it's the Christianity.
They were kind of both the same thing, just different times.
But then you know, then you start seeing more propaganda, right,
So the Christians started propagandatizing the dragons, and they start
(21:18):
propagandisizing them also through their art. So you would have
artists that would start to paint what they thought a
dragon looked like. But they always had a man slaying
the dragon, right, so like this man is killing Satan,
killing the devil, and man's in charge, like we can,
we can conquer you know anything. They did the same
(21:40):
thing to Montezuma the Aztecs, where once Montezuma was killed,
you have a lot of the French artists, Spanish, English,
Italian artists that started creating these portraits of Montezuma as
this very small weak man being conquered by a Spaniard.
So everything's about in a part of our history is
(22:00):
about conquering, right, But you see this happen and like, honestly,
I was reading this stuff going this all sounds like
the Spanish Conquista doors as I'm reading through in a
granted it was thousands of thousands of years prior to that,
but it was still the kind of the conquering and
the and the but still the pattern of it.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Right, It's like something that's never changed.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, well something so changed. It's like, oh, we're going
to grab onto this, We're going to turn it into
this and we're going to show how man conk it's
always a man, not a woman, FYI, And how band
conquers this, whether it's an actual person like Montezuma, or
it's a creature like a dragon that they turned into
a devil, it's just a really you'd think we're having
a history podcast right now. I just felt really smart
(22:46):
for a minute minutes up.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, it's and I do think the fact that if
you go back to you know, that part of looking
at art, you'll see so many dragons, some of them
watching in the background, some of them literally you know,
like you said, the in the focus being slave. But
(23:15):
there's a lot of representation.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So many, right, and they were using like some of
them had heads that looked more like lions, some of
the heads look more like serpents, you know, Like it
depends upon where in the world the art was being created.
It was taking from their own culture, and I just
think it's a really fascinating thing. It's like, oh I
(23:37):
just actually found right, I learned this from It's like
the elephant in India, or that of a lion or
bird of prey in the Middle East, you know, or
numerous heads of reptiles such as serpents. So depending upon
where the art was being created, Yeah, that's what that
(23:59):
dragon looked like.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, depending on the culture, what visual it needed.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
And color of the body. That's another interesting thing because
you know, they range from and I've seen all of
these green, red, black and usually yellow for the record,
which I find fascinating, but you also see blue and
you see white dragons, which we'll talk to in our
next section. But it is a very it is a
(24:27):
you know, this is I think the dragon lore, I
guess we call it. That is one of the more
I think they're all fascinating. Don't get me wrong. I
mean I dig the ls, dig the fairies. We're gonna
keep going on this whole thing. But the dragons, the
presence that they have, and how it has been contorted, Like, honestly,
you don't see the contortion of the story of the fairies,
(24:49):
you don't see the contortion of the stories of the elves,
but you see the contortion of the stories of the dragons.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Well. The other thing is though that also in the
fairies tend to have a human form, right related, and
the dragons are not human form at all. They are
their own special magic.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And it's a good point. Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah. I think that they have a lot of power.
And I mean Christianity is known for taking things that
are valued and powerful in other cultures and making it
part of their own new lore that they need to change, right,
it's why we have Christmas near solstice because they knew,
(25:38):
you know, the solstice was powerful for the Celtic people
and they needed to get them on board, and that's
why they put Jesus' birthday in December.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Right, A bunch of hijackers, Well.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
They're opportunists for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
That's a much nicer way than what I just call
saying hijacking. But listen, it is fascinating, right, Like, I
still love this whole topic.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And that's why it's really great just to know the
history of things, know where things come from.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
We do. Yes, we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
All right, y'all, we're going to stop dragging your time around.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And we are going to wrap this thing right, which
how dragons are real for us, so you can share
with us how dragons are real for you. So we
all get to work with dragons in our own way,
and we can call them in and invoke them or
just acknowledge them when they show up, and we don't
have to be afraid and try and control them or
(26:41):
slay them. But so I have traditionally worked with dragons
in the traditional way I understand them, which is as
gatekeepers and one time I was visiting with a client
in my office and we get to the end of
the consultation and she said, well, I have one question,
(27:02):
and I was like, okay, what's your question. She says,
what's the dragon in the corner doing. I said, that
is none of your business?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
The best answer ever, By the way, it's not your
budess not.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It's not your business. Our business is done here, thank
you very much. She ended up to, you know, be
a steady and work on her clairvoyants and her intuition.
And it was a great student and saw dragons and
work with dragons.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, because I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I'm just saying that they are real and they are
powerful and use them. So I hope, I hope people
will find their way. So now, my elf, I know
you have.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, I do, And I have actually told a story.
I'll do a short version of it, and I'm going
to relate it back to the very beginning of when
I like literally jumped off the cliff. I got so
excited and start track talking about dragons when we first
started literally after hello, I have a dragon named Olivia Poe.
So what happened days a couple of days before that
(28:09):
trip was I had my own trip, and I was transported.
I mean, we can call it a dream, but I
was utterly transported. So I found myself while I was
sleeping in this other world and part of it looked
like our world. I was up on this kind of
(28:32):
a mountain. It's where I could see down upon a
town and what I remember seeing a dragon, very large dragon,
and it was a metal dragon because I could hear
the clicking and you could see and it was flying
and it was flying through or like through the town
or the city, around the buildings, not hurting anything, hurting anybody.
(28:52):
And it was early in my own journey, spiritual journey,
and it came up to me and I'm just talking
to like, I'm talking to you, and I pulled out
my phone to take a picture because that was like
the early ghost photographer days, and it said that doesn't
work here. I'm like okay, and I'm with these other people.
(29:14):
And I had a car there, which is very weird.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And the camera won't work, but the car will.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
But apparently I can. I can't have a camera, but
I can have a car nice And so that I
don't remember exactly what happened with that dragon left or
whatever it was, and something I think he said some
about you can't paste that picture. Maybe there's some about
audio or something that he said to me, and it
was a he I don't know. And then there was
(29:39):
this little because when we talked about color being white,
that I experienced this white wispy type of drag is
smaller and I could still see it to this day,
this white whispy dragging like makes his way over or
her way over to me and full on starts to
talk to my ass, not my ass, but me, and
(30:00):
it's like, here, you must follow me. I have a
very important message for you. And so I follow this
dragon and we go back to my car, which had
a hatchback.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I mean, whatever, it's it's my dream I can have
a hatchback.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I guess. I mean when when I tell you what
the dragon said, it kind of makes sense why I
had a hatchback, and the dragon said everything you need
to know is in here. I think the car was
me just for the record, and I could see through
the glass of the hatchback that there were file boxes
so everything. So I but I remember I woke up
(30:38):
from this and I and Susanne always wakes up before me.
I mean, I'm a late sleeper, so you know, our
clocks are hours off of one another. And I like,
get up out of the I'm like charging into the
living room, where I knew she'd be drinking coffee, and
I said, did you see the dragons last night? And
she goes, what, I said, where's my phone? Just what
(31:01):
is wrong with you? I said, I might have the
picture of a dragon. I might not. I don't know,
maybe there's an audio file. Da da da da da.
And She's like, what the hell's going on. I'm like,
I don't know, but did you see him? I mean,
like it was that real, right? And of course that's
how I respond, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, dragons are powerful, right, I mean it is, no,
it is a rush when you see them.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So here's what happened. We'd had this plan trip to
go to drive to Phoenix. We already had we rented
a pickup truck to go get these chairs that I
wanted really bad. And we're in this truck, we're driving
to Phoenix. We're almost into Phoenix, and all of a sudden,
I say to Suzanne, I said, would you believe me
(31:43):
if I told you your sister Sally was talking to
me right now, and she goes, yeah, I would. And
I talked to Sally for Suzanne for about forty five
minutes to an hour, and there are all things I
didn't know, They're all things that Suzanne would know. And
it was the first time I ever spoke to somebody
(32:04):
on the other side. So everything I needed to know,
everything I needed was inside of my little hatchback, which
is and that's when it all.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Started such a great story.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And that's when I got Livia Pope. Yeah, so I
very much have a connection to dragons. I very much
believe in what I I think there is there's a
dimension of space for dragons because I was there. It
was so it wasn't a dream. It wasn't like some
made up stuff. It was a real interaction.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Well. Yeah, just like the fairies have their domain, the
alves have their domain, the dragons have theirs.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I don't to me, the dragon onod isn't as easy
to cross over as the oid ones.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Are because it's not a humanoid based, right, you know,
it's a different a different, completely different frequency.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, and so the dragons changed my life full on,
just like how the fairies when you were five. Ye
was a life changing moment for you. The dragons were
a life changing moment for me. And so here's what's funny, y'all.
When I called Brenda to tell her about what happened,
what did you say to me? I'm like, what the
(33:16):
fuck are dragons doing get into my ship?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like? Why? Why? Why was it a dragon? Why? You
were just like, why why dragons? I don't I don't
get it. I don't get it. And I'm like, well,
if they if the message had shown up from my cat,
would you have paid attention?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Right, I'm a good point.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
You would not have paid attention.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
You needed kitty, kitty kitty.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, you're like, what of right.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
But I'm going to listen to a dragon?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, you would have blown that cat off.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I'm out of a peditant given it some you know, snack,
but I'm not quite sure I would have been so obedient.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
If you're gonna he did the dragon magic, I did?
It was amazing. So again, y'all, we share these because
it is this part of what is so magical and
mystical about our world, about the universe, about what is possible.
Because in all these stories that we tell you, we're
(34:16):
telling you our stories.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And again we talked about the other side obviously, but
the other side's here and it's available to us, and
that's what we want you to remember.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And if you see a white wispy one, give it
a smooch for me because she was fabulous and I
just and it's like I have not forgotten really that that.
It's like everything I need is inside my little hatchbag.
And I think my hatchback was white too. It's really weird.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It's nice.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, my little crappy hatchback cars Man probably white because
that's my hair's turning.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Damn it. Thank you Mike Al for doing all your
nerdy research and for sharing your story. Thank you for
listening everybody, and remember our school is.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Hard without the other side in the dragon rail me all.
If you can get there, go it's magnificent. Okay, we
love you guys, tell us stories. Kay, bye bye everybody.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Thank you for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks
to our producer Joey Patt and our executive producer Maya
Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides, or
shoot us a note at high Hi at Vibes dot Store.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your
stories and remember, our school is.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Hard without the other side. Insider's Guide to the other
Side is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, Apple podcast, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can. Because let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh, stop dragging my heart around.
I don't know. I didn't kind of a good one,
but I have a right. I spell it different than
he did.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Nice, I like it. I like it a lot. So
today we get to talk about draker.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Hell, yes we do, and speaking of dragon like using it,
you know, more as a verb. So you remember that
when Susanne and I drove to Phoenix, which is also
interesting related to this whole dragon story. But we went
to Phoenix, which is right after my experience when I
(01:29):
went into their world, which we'll get to at the end.
But here's what's funny. I bought this big metal dragon.
We went to Phoenix because I picked up my my,
my Ralph Lauren Ryder's chairs from this couple that was
selling them, okay, and we rented a truck. So we
have these two chairs on this truck. We decide to
stop in Sedona, because that's what you do. And I
(01:51):
found this big metal dragon and we tied it into
in the truck and the whole time I drove my
wife nuts. It was also of four days before that
was the first time I talked to somebody from the
other side. But the funny part about the dragons, I
kept saying, stop dragon, my dragon, and I just thought
I was so funny. And then we ended up naming
it Olivia Pope from the Showandal Scandal I know, Oh
(02:18):
my gosh, if I had a prize I could give
you through the screen, I would give you a prize.
But anyway, so, so Olivia Pope sits outside of my casita.
Oh my god, that's so hilarious. Yeah, photo, oh totally.
And actually we had this kind of stump, like a
tree stump over here. I kept saying, Susanna, go, can
(02:39):
we put Olivia Pope on the stump and she's like, baby,
you can put your goddamn dragon wherever you want to.
I said, yes, freedom to decorate with dragons. Okay, so
we're talking about dragons. I jumped in real fast to
that one.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You couldn't You couldn't I keep that one.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I could not keep that. I have a metal dragon
name Olivia Pope in front of my Casidia.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I mean, come on, come on, that's pretty good, that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
In fact, when we moved her, she has wings, and
we somehow forgot to pack them. And you know, my
high school boyfriend John, well, hold on, if there's a
good ending, my high school boyfriend John and his husband
went to our house and got them and they kept them.
And when they drove they brought us Olivia's wings and
(03:25):
we all had like a little moment where we put
her wings on her and all was right in the world. Okay, sons, Wow,
I think I said before we started, we're not going
to jump in, and I'm like, you just jumped on in.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So here's the thing about dragons. Dragons, you know, have
this this presence, right, this bigness, this powerfulness, and when
I think in my typical elfin way in terms of
filmed entertainment, I think about, wow, well, how like this
is interesting? Like how have they been picted it? And
(04:01):
there's two versions I just want to quickly talk about.
And one is because I also worked on a few
of these movies. The do you ever see the how
How to Train Your Dragon? The animated? Okay, so I
love that. I will tell you that. I think it
was the third one. I remember we went to the
DreamWorks studio a lot in Los Angeles, and there's we
(04:22):
were about six seven of us were invited to go
watch it before we released it, and it's probably months
before we did. And I sat there and I was
crying so hard at the end of that third one
that I went and hid in the bathroom until everybody left,
because I mean I was like not presentable, like I
somebody been like what literally, what's wrong with her? Oh?
(04:45):
My god? I love it so much. So anyway, here's
what's interesting about that. If you think about How to
Train Your Dragon? It was set in kind of prehistoric
ish times, right. Yeah, So even they spoke in it,
because it's a movie, they didn't exactly you know, the
(05:05):
way they lived was very prehistoric, right, And tooth close
to the earth, very close to the earth, right, I
mean right, it was they used you know, fire and
stones and stuff like that, and a lot of mythology, right,
And actually there was a mythology in the movie about
dragons until they actually saw one who was toothless the
(05:29):
dragon and Footnote to everybody, if I haven't already said this,
I may have. Is the reason why we all love
Toothless the dragon is because they modeled Toothless after a dog. Yes,
so you like toothless wag's tail in his body and
rolls around like that's part of how he developed that
really like a puppy, how you developed the love for him.
(05:52):
So that was you know, a dragon as a friend, right,
not as a foe, not as a weapon, right, Like
that's like tooth was a part of the family effectively.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, And that that's very different lore than dragons usually have.
Dragons are usually something to be feared, something to be conquered,
something to be avoided, like in the mythology.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Right, do you want to know when that changed because
it actually didn't start that way.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
That's correct, that's that's more modern.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
But it is it is because it was you know,
dragons had a they had a a a friendlier view, right.
I don't know the best way to say it, but
it was.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It was more like I'm going to work with you.
I mean, it's more of a partnership than an adversary. Yes, right,
but this is ancient times. Well it was pre Christian, right,
pre Christian times. But it was something that you could
give it an assignment of of you being the gatekeeper.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Right, right, right, because they they were they right. They
were seen as useful and protective and and there were
elements that were harmful and dangerous, but it wasn't it's like, listen,
everything's harmful and dangerous if you well.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It's harmful and dangerous if you're if you're trying to
breach the perimeter, right, then it's going to be harmful
and dangerage dangerous. But if you don't do that, it's
it's it wasn't seen as something that would just destroy
you on site.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Right, So so if you think about how to train
your dragon, that's like a pre Christian view. And they
were friends, and they were friends, right, I mean it
was the children's or a family movie. But and then
came Game of Thrones, right, So Game of Thrones they
(07:49):
they were still that still existed, meaning the useful protective
because there was because there was always family of like
within the because the Game of Three owns like the
different games were different families and all trying to see power.
And one family was like the family of dragons, and
so there was a friend.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
On the one family had dragons.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, okay, yes, the other ones tried to get them.
You can imagine because they were saying so powerful, right, yeah,
but that had that I think if I looked at
a timeline was later than if I had to put
a timeline to how to train the dragons. So you
saw more of like the fire that they were creating
(08:37):
that would come out of their mouth. You would see
them like destroy right where you did. Like obviously Toothless
wasn't a destroyer boy his every move you know, he.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was a puppy.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
He was a puppy. So but it is actually really
interesting how dragons have been depicted throughout what we can
see in time or thought of you out time and
I think even you look at the touau, right yeah,
so are you to show me the card?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Show you and no one else has this visual but
in my deck called the beauty of terrou The five
of fire is has a dragon sitting on top of
a roof with five flames at its feet. Right, and
so this, this dragon actually represents power to choose right,
(09:27):
power to choose to protect.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Really, well, you're either have to slay your own dragon
or it's going to slay you. Right.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Well, the dragon, the dragon is really represents yourself right
where others are judging you or transformation is available. So
what are you going to do? Right? Are you going
to succumb to make people happy? Or are you going
to fly away and suit yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, I'm gonna fly away and I'm gonna like spit
fire at people. Does that count?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
And we're going to fly away right now and take
a little break. We'll be right back and welcome back.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Thanks, I'm ready, I'm right. I know. I was just
messing with you. Have a little pause to be like, wait,
what's she gonna do?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Wait? What did I miss up there? All right? So
nerdy alf, what do you got for us? Tell us
more about dragon lore?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
D r A g O N not d r A
g g I N. So it's it's it's you know,
I learned. I love this part. I love to dig
around in this and read have conversations with you about it.
I learned so much about it. So here's what's interesting
about at least the origin of dragons. And the interesting
(10:48):
part is that nobody actually knows when it began.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Like this just like.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
They don't exactly right, but it doesn't it feel so
ancient though, Like dragons feel like they have been a part.
I mean, if you look at where they are known,
like culture, it's you've said before when we were talking,
you know about fairies, it's it's it's a global sensation,
kind of like Taylor Swift global sensation. And so there's
(11:22):
all parts. The one that I actually think probably has
embraced the most, and it's also credibly old culture is
Chinese culture. And so China has very much embraced the dragons.
You know, in their New York celebration, they always have
dragons feature they have people that are holding them, and
(11:42):
they crazy these incredibly yeah, these credibly long dragons, and
they have dancers underneath them, and it's very much a
part of their culture. But it's but they've been seen,
you know, from America to Europe, from India to China, right,
like they've just been all over in terms of our culture.
(12:03):
But I do think it's interesting that we don't know
when or where. If I had guess, I still would
guess China is where it originated because it feels like
it's really strong there. Did you get the same?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And well, I would say documented probably documented.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Okay, that's fair. Yeah, but they but what they what
the interneteb tells me is that these huge flying serpents
were described at least as early as the age of
the ancient Greeks and Samerians.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, and I think China would have been but.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Before that I think so too.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So yeah, I'm fully with you. This is part of
the funny, y'all. It's like Brenda doesn't know any of
like what I'm going to talk about, and we do
it on purpose because it's more real for you guys.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I would also say, though, even when we have like
dinosaurs being discovered right today, like they'll have bones, but
they'll also like find little dragons, like they you know,
they had little flying denisaur bones discovered in the past
couple of years, right, and they will also identify as dragons,
(13:11):
so they're like, well this would be considered just a dragon.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, Like it. It's so like even there's there's like
legitimus to it because of because of that.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
So so it's so, well, let's hit on that for
a second and then I'll and I'm going to pivot
us in a minute to Christianity. And what it change
is that you know it today. If you ask somebody
on the street, do you believe that dragons fly in
the sky, They're probably going to say no, right, unless
you're in New Orleans and it's one am, because I
(13:44):
would have said.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yes then totally.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But that's modern day, right. So what's interesting is I
want to go back to and I always bring this
up because this is you know, I did not learn
history in high school because I went to MoMA, Oklahoma
High School. But I have had to like postpone that
part of my life, so at least now I remember
it because it's all recent to me. Is that what's
interesting about the evolution of mankind and I don't mean
(14:13):
physical evolution, I mean more of our reading writing, like
just being literate. Right, so when we were illiterate, there
is a pattern that has emerged over the last five
hundred plus years. And I'm pretty sure I mentioned this
about the fairies. Is what happens is we don't you
(14:37):
know people, you know, they create stories, they tell stories.
Sometimes it's for morality reasons, sometimes it's actually for control reasons.
And then you start to get the artists involved and
then they start to create something different for it. And
that is certainly you know what has happened with the
(14:59):
Draggans in terms of what people believe that dragons were real.
They started to dig up during that time, these very
large bones, right, so they're digging up large bones around
the world believing they're from dragons, but they were dinosaurs
because we were illiterate.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And I mean they just didn't know.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
They didn't know. But so science, literacy, those things I
suldly add science. So science and literacy is the reason
why you can ask somebody unless they're hammered in uh,
in the French Quarter in any city really, but New
Orleans is a favor of mine. They're like, no, they're
not flying around, right because of literacy and science. But
(15:46):
imagine before that and you're digging up this bony. You've
heard stories of this magical wing creature that's like spit
fire doing whatever it's doing. You're like, damn, it's got
to be real.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, so these are here it is.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, they were very real to people, and I think
that's so important for us to understand. These were very
very real. So and I just want to add that
to your point about when people were finding like the
dinosaurs and finding little you know, bones and that they
say like they were dragons. So I'm going to pivot
back to Christianity because this is really interesting. Are you
ready for me to pivot back to Christianity? Okay, So
(16:26):
remember we've been talking pre christian Now we're going to
hit this Christianity. And so when Christianity anity started spread
across the globe, dragons took on a very different interpretation
than what they did prior. Right, because prior they were useful,
protective things like that. Christianity hit and it took it
(16:49):
hit boom, Christianity hit, Christianity hashtag Christianity hit and they
became very sinister. Right. There wasn't the there was no
benevolence to it. There wasn't like I'm going to protect you.
There wasn't like, you know, toothless type of vision. Became
(17:13):
very sinister because what the Christians did is that they
they turned it to represent Satan. We've talked before about this,
and it's okay if people don't believe, but the history
books do show that that Christianity invented Satan.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, there was no devil in the Bible before the
I get it. I can't. It's gone on my head
that the one conclave that they had and then they decided,
we couldn't get people to comply, so we have to
invent the devil.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
We have to scare them.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, we have to create compliance. Yeah. Right, And so
they took something that was powerful and meaningful to the
two cultures and they said you are now mine, and
we're making you the devil. Right, I mean, that's they
They kind of took out took the the figure of
the dragon, and that's what they base say.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
That they did. In fact, I think, okay, I'm going
to confess I did, like go to episcopal charts and stuff,
but that's actually part of my life. I don't remember, so,
but but I do have this in front of me.
Is that a character in the Bible, let's say Levithan. Okay,
(18:31):
there is a massive monster described in detail in the
Book of Job chapter forty one, and that sounds like
a dragon. So this is after revisions, right, and this
is all in quotes. It is. It's back has rows
of shields, tightly sealed together, each so close to the
(18:54):
next that no air can pass between. They are joined
fast to one another. They cling together and not be parted.
Its snorting throws out flashes of light. Its eyes are
like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from the mouth,
Sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils
(19:15):
as from a boat boiling pot over burning reeds. Its
breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Sounds like a dragon.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, the Beleef and Dragons was based not just on legend,
but well actually they created a legend and and and
and it's interesting right because all like this has been written.
People were finding bones, they're putting pieces together. It's kind
of like, you know, it does remind me a little
bit of Bigfoot, even because like anybody who finds a
(19:50):
large but like, oh, this is what bigfoot. I have
a picture of Bigfoot or I saw Bigfoot, you know.
So it's just it's just it's it's fascinating. It's the
our journey as humans. Right again, I'm going back to
literacy and science. It's a really interesting path because you know,
(20:11):
I've studied quite a bit about the UH about the
Spanish conquistadors, and and what you find and what I
have found while researching this is it's very much the
same pattern. Because it's like early days like the Aztecs,
the Incas, the Mayans. You know, they they believed in
(20:34):
multiple gods. They believe that when the sun came up,
it's because one of their gods said it was okay, right,
kind of like dragons in that in that respect, and
then and and an event happens. And so in this
case with the tribes of South America, uh, it was
(20:54):
the Spaniards. In the case of dragons, it's the Christianity.
They were kind of both the same thing, just different times.
But then you know, then you start seeing more propaganda, right,
So the Christians started propagandatizing the dragons, and they start
(21:18):
propagandisizing them also through their art. So you would have
artists that would start to paint what they thought a
dragon looked like. But they always had a man slaying
the dragon, right, so like this man is killing Satan,
killing the devil, and man's in charge, like we can,
we can conquer you know anything. They did the same
(21:40):
thing to Montezuma the Aztecs, where once Montezuma was killed,
you have a lot of the French artists, Spanish, English,
Italian artists that started creating these portraits of Montezuma as
this very small weak man being conquered by a Spaniard.
So everything's about in a part of our history is
(22:00):
about conquering, right, But you see this happen and like, honestly,
I was reading this stuff going this all sounds like
the Spanish Conquista doors as I'm reading through in a
granted it was thousands of thousands of years prior to that,
but it was still the kind of the conquering and
the and the but still the pattern of it.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Right, It's like something that's never changed.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, well something so changed. It's like, oh, we're going
to grab onto this, We're going to turn it into
this and we're going to show how man conk it's
always a man, not a woman, FYI, And how band
conquers this, whether it's an actual person like Montezuma, or
it's a creature like a dragon that they turned into
a devil, it's just a really you'd think we're having
a history podcast right now. I just felt really smart
(22:46):
for a minute minutes up.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, it's and I do think the fact that if
you go back to you know, that part of looking
at art, you'll see so many dragons, some of them
watching in the background, some of them literally you know,
like you said, the in the focus being slave. But
(23:15):
there's a lot of representation.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
So many, right, and they were using like some of
them had heads that looked more like lions, some of
the heads look more like serpents, you know, Like it
depends upon where in the world the art was being created.
It was taking from their own culture, and I just
think it's a really fascinating thing. It's like, oh I
(23:37):
just actually found right, I learned this from It's like
the elephant in India, or that of a lion or
bird of prey in the Middle East, you know, or
numerous heads of reptiles such as serpents. So depending upon
where the art was being created, Yeah, that's what that
(23:59):
dragon looked like.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, depending on the culture, what visual it needed.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
And color of the body. That's another interesting thing because
you know, they range from and I've seen all of
these green, red, black and usually yellow for the record,
which I find fascinating, but you also see blue and
you see white dragons, which we'll talk to in our
next section. But it is a very it is a
(24:27):
you know, this is I think the dragon lore, I
guess we call it. That is one of the more
I think they're all fascinating. Don't get me wrong. I
mean I dig the ls, dig the fairies. We're gonna
keep going on this whole thing. But the dragons, the
presence that they have, and how it has been contorted, Like, honestly,
you don't see the contortion of the story of the fairies,
(24:49):
you don't see the contortion of the stories of the elves,
but you see the contortion of the stories of the dragons.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Well. The other thing is though that also in the
fairies tend to have a human form, right related, and
the dragons are not human form at all. They are
their own special magic.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And it's a good point. Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah. I think that they have a lot of power.
And I mean Christianity is known for taking things that
are valued and powerful in other cultures and making it
part of their own new lore that they need to change, right,
it's why we have Christmas near solstice because they knew,
(25:38):
you know, the solstice was powerful for the Celtic people
and they needed to get them on board, and that's
why they put Jesus' birthday in December.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Right, A bunch of hijackers, Well.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
They're opportunists for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
That's a much nicer way than what I just call
saying hijacking. But listen, it is fascinating, right, Like, I
still love this whole topic.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And that's why it's really great just to know the
history of things, know where things come from.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
We do. Yes, we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
All right, y'all, we're going to stop dragging your time around.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And we are going to wrap this thing right, which
how dragons are real for us, so you can share
with us how dragons are real for you. So we
all get to work with dragons in our own way,
and we can call them in and invoke them or
just acknowledge them when they show up, and we don't
have to be afraid and try and control them or
(26:41):
slay them. But so I have traditionally worked with dragons
in the traditional way I understand them, which is as
gatekeepers and one time I was visiting with a client
in my office and we get to the end of
the consultation and she said, well, I have one question,
(27:02):
and I was like, okay, what's your question. She says,
what's the dragon in the corner doing. I said, that
is none of your business?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
The best answer ever, By the way, it's not your
budess not.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
It's not your business. Our business is done here, thank
you very much. She ended up to, you know, be
a steady and work on her clairvoyants and her intuition.
And it was a great student and saw dragons and
work with dragons.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, because I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I'm just saying that they are real and they are
powerful and use them. So I hope, I hope people
will find their way. So now, my elf, I know
you have.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, I do, And I have actually told a story.
I'll do a short version of it, and I'm going
to relate it back to the very beginning of when
I like literally jumped off the cliff. I got so
excited and start track talking about dragons when we first
started literally after hello, I have a dragon named Olivia Poe.
So what happened days a couple of days before that
(28:09):
trip was I had my own trip, and I was transported.
I mean, we can call it a dream, but I
was utterly transported. So I found myself while I was
sleeping in this other world and part of it looked
like our world. I was up on this kind of
(28:32):
a mountain. It's where I could see down upon a
town and what I remember seeing a dragon, very large dragon,
and it was a metal dragon because I could hear
the clicking and you could see and it was flying
and it was flying through or like through the town
or the city, around the buildings, not hurting anything, hurting anybody.
(28:52):
And it was early in my own journey, spiritual journey,
and it came up to me and I'm just talking
to like, I'm talking to you, and I pulled out
my phone to take a picture because that was like
the early ghost photographer days, and it said that doesn't
work here. I'm like okay, and I'm with these other people.
(29:14):
And I had a car there, which is very weird.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
And the camera won't work, but the car will.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
But apparently I can. I can't have a camera, but
I can have a car nice And so that I
don't remember exactly what happened with that dragon left or
whatever it was, and something I think he said some
about you can't paste that picture. Maybe there's some about
audio or something that he said to me, and it
was a he I don't know. And then there was
(29:39):
this little because when we talked about color being white,
that I experienced this white wispy type of drag is
smaller and I could still see it to this day,
this white whispy dragging like makes his way over or
her way over to me and full on starts to
talk to my ass, not my ass, but me, and
(30:00):
it's like, here, you must follow me. I have a
very important message for you. And so I follow this
dragon and we go back to my car, which had
a hatchback.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I mean, whatever, it's it's my dream I can have
a hatchback.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I guess. I mean when when I tell you what
the dragon said, it kind of makes sense why I
had a hatchback, and the dragon said everything you need
to know is in here. I think the car was
me just for the record, and I could see through
the glass of the hatchback that there were file boxes
so everything. So I but I remember I woke up
(30:38):
from this and I and Susanne always wakes up before me.
I mean, I'm a late sleeper, so you know, our
clocks are hours off of one another. And I like,
get up out of the I'm like charging into the
living room, where I knew she'd be drinking coffee, and
I said, did you see the dragons last night? And
she goes, what, I said, where's my phone? Just what
(31:01):
is wrong with you? I said, I might have the
picture of a dragon. I might not. I don't know,
maybe there's an audio file. Da da da da da.
And She's like, what the hell's going on. I'm like,
I don't know, but did you see him? I mean,
like it was that real, right? And of course that's
how I respond, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, dragons are powerful, right, I mean it is, no,
it is a rush when you see them.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
So here's what happened. We'd had this plan trip to
go to drive to Phoenix. We already had we rented
a pickup truck to go get these chairs that I
wanted really bad. And we're in this truck, we're driving
to Phoenix. We're almost into Phoenix, and all of a sudden,
I say to Suzanne, I said, would you believe me
(31:43):
if I told you your sister Sally was talking to
me right now, and she goes, yeah, I would. And
I talked to Sally for Suzanne for about forty five
minutes to an hour, and there are all things I
didn't know, They're all things that Suzanne would know. And
it was the first time I ever spoke to somebody
(32:04):
on the other side. So everything I needed to know,
everything I needed was inside of my little hatchback, which
is and that's when it all.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Started such a great story.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
And that's when I got Livia Pope. Yeah, so I
very much have a connection to dragons. I very much
believe in what I I think there is there's a
dimension of space for dragons because I was there. It
was so it wasn't a dream. It wasn't like some
made up stuff. It was a real interaction.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Well. Yeah, just like the fairies have their domain, the
alves have their domain, the dragons have theirs.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I don't to me, the dragon onod isn't as easy
to cross over as the oid ones.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Are because it's not a humanoid based, right, you know,
it's a different a different, completely different frequency.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, and so the dragons changed my life full on,
just like how the fairies when you were five. Ye
was a life changing moment for you. The dragons were
a life changing moment for me. And so here's what's funny, y'all.
When I called Brenda to tell her about what happened,
what did you say to me? I'm like, what the
(33:16):
fuck are dragons doing get into my ship?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like? Why? Why? Why was it a dragon? Why? You
were just like, why why dragons? I don't I don't
get it. I don't get it. And I'm like, well,
if they if the message had shown up from my cat,
would you have paid attention?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Right, I'm a good point.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
You would not have paid attention.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
You needed kitty, kitty kitty.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, you're like, what of right.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
But I'm going to listen to a dragon?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, you would have blown that cat off.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I'm out of a peditant given it some you know, snack,
but I'm not quite sure I would have been so obedient.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
If you're gonna he did the dragon magic, I did?
It was amazing. So again, y'all, we share these because
it is this part of what is so magical and
mystical about our world, about the universe, about what is possible.
Because in all these stories that we tell you, we're
(34:16):
telling you our stories.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And again we talked about the other side obviously, but
the other side's here and it's available to us, and
that's what we want you to remember.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And if you see a white wispy one, give it
a smooch for me because she was fabulous and I
just and it's like I have not forgotten really that that.
It's like everything I need is inside my little hatchbag.
And I think my hatchback was white too. It's really weird.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It's nice.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, my little crappy hatchback cars Man probably white because
that's my hair's turning.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Damn it. Thank you Mike Al for doing all your
nerdy research and for sharing your story. Thank you for
listening everybody, and remember our school is.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Hard without the other side in the dragon rail me all.
If you can get there, go it's magnificent. Okay, we
love you guys, tell us stories. Kay, bye bye everybody.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Thank you for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks
to our producer Joey Patt and our executive producer Maya
Cole Howard, who guides us well we guide you.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides, or
shoot us a note at high Hi at Vibes dot Store.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your
stories and remember, our school is.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Hard without the other side. Insider's Guide to the other
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