September 6, 2023 • 30 mins
Trigger Warning: Assisted Suicide ThemeToday, we discuss the tender and complex subject of assisted suicide— with respect to the freedom of individual choice—without judgment or ego.Today's episode aims to get the conversation going and keep it flowing. When we can come fully together, in both head and heart dialogue, to listen and share with compassion, we have so much to learn from one another. The truth is, all life is a fatal journey. So what happens when one's end-of-life planning includes the complicated and often frightening choice to end it on one's own terms? This topic leads us to discuss boundaries, intentions, karma, dharma, the life review process, and the value each life brings to this world, in a contemplative and thoughtful way.Because Earth School is hard, and the domino effect of our choices vibrates from here to the Other Side, and beyond, for healing.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a trigger warning that this episode discusses suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
other Side.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Uh heck, yes it can, because let's be honest, for
in Earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That let's crush Earth school together.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh. Should I stay or should
I go? Now? If I go, there will be trouble.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Actually, either way with you, there's it's going to be trouble.
There will be double exactly my point.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I want to anyway, How are you? How are you?
I'm great? Because yes, I'm fantastic. This is a topic
I wanted to talk about for a while. Really, yes
I did.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I did not know this.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Should I say or should I go? You did not know? No,
So this is about the term that you read about
in the press. They call it assisted suicide. We're going
to call it assisted jumping. And it's actually you know,
I tend to be one of those people, as you
very well know. It can be pretty firm in my
(01:42):
stance on things. And and no, for real obviously does
the answer to that. And this one's been in the
press a lot lately because Canada offers this and and
there's been stories about different peace people who are taking
advantage of it, so on and so forth. But it's
(02:04):
something I thought that we should talk about and talk
about it, you know, on the physical plane what it means,
and the spiritual plane what it means.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And such tender and complex. Yeah, to navigate with loved ones.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes it is, Yes, it is, which is why I
have waffled.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, it's very complicated, for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It is. And so do you want to Can I
start with a story?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You know, you know you taught me to ask permission? Yes,
so you're laughing. It's a lesson that I learned from you.
I just want to be clear, so everybody knows.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, we would be disappointed if there wasn't this story,
and there's that tell us a story.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And I would be disappointed if I didn't ask permission
from you. First permission is that is a funny thing.
It's something I offer people all the time and it's
very confounding to them, and I tell them why, and
all of a sudden they start asking it. It's a
really interesting thing. Not the show, but just a little
side note for every little footnote for the group. So
(03:11):
this was probably we're I'm going to say nine, ten
years ago, and I'm not going to use names to cuts.
So yeah, a good friend of mine in the business
all this is Helly. So she because it's a she,
So thank you for the ginger specification. So she was
(03:36):
a head of ad sales at one of the networks,
and I love this woman. She is insanely smart and
we became really good friends. And one night we were
out to dinner at one of my favorite restaurants in
Los Angeles called Doctor Hoggley Woggly's Tyler Texas Barbecue. It's
(03:56):
not the shortest restaurant name that you've ever heard, got
Italian places. It's a fantastic sushi restaurant. And it was
interesting because we were there, there's four of us, and
my friend was and she wasn't. She was just talking
wasn't even sometimes we say we talk, but we don't think,
(04:19):
you know, like about your audience or what they'd gone through.
But she was talking about she and her husband had
made this decision that if one of them got terbally ill,
let's say she didn't wasn't specific about what type of
illness that that they would, you know, have their plans
(04:39):
to you know, assisted suicide effectively. And she's talking and
she's a very confident woman, and she's like, I wish
you guys could see me. It's like she's tough, and
she's just like made up her mind and this is
what it is, because that's how she operates in the world.
And so I sat and listened, of course, and when
(05:00):
she was done, I asked permission. I said, do you
mind if I give you another perspective? And she's like,
oh sure, And I said, because they between they don't
have children together, but they have children from separate marriages,
and so there's I think multiple children involved here. And
(05:20):
because part of the rationale was protecting the kids, like
we don't want them to have to worry about us.
That was their view of protection. And I said, well,
if you don't mind, this is kind of my other perspective.
And I said, if my mother would have made that choice,
I would not have learned the most valuable lessons of
my life. I would not have actually found out who
(05:43):
I really was deep in my soul. I would have
never really found out what it would have been to
actually in turn give her unconditional love the way that
she gave me. I would not have completed that journey.
And she sat there and this is a tough ass woman,
(06:05):
tough ass woman, and she sat there and started to sob.
I never thought about that, right, And I'm like, and
I said, girl, I cannot. I did say, girl, I'm like, girl,
I cannot and would never tell you what to do
because that is not my job. That's why I said,
it's just another perspective for you to consider. You could
(06:27):
still go down whatever Mary path you want to go down,
but I just wanted to offer you another way to
look at it. And she has two sons, And I said,
you don't think those boys need to find out more
about what's in their soul? She goes, Okay, that's actually
probably the best point you've made, right close the deal, yeah,
close the deal with you got boys, girl? And they
(06:51):
were younger too at the time, and so you know,
that was where I sat at that time. Now just
with in the last three or four months, hung out
with another very dear friend of mine, of course, it's
Los Angeles. I love her so much, and she and
I were talking about a lot of the stuff in
the news, right with all these people going to I
(07:13):
think it's Switzerland. It's not, Sweeten, I think it's Switzerland
if I'm not mistaken, and Canada and so we're taught,
and so her whole thing was very but everybody, those
two perspectives that I'm giving are are very different for
the rationale and their situations, but they're very much from
the earthly side of it. I think it's probably the
(07:35):
first way to say it. But she was like, she goes, oh,
I would absolutely do this. I go, you would, She goes, oh, yeah,
she goes without a question. She goes, I don't have kids.
So she has really thought about it. She goes, I
don't have kids, and she goes, you know, and I'm
going to leave whatever I have to my nieces and nephews.
And she goes, So if I'm sick and I had
(07:56):
there's no quality of life or I'm out of my
mind or whatever it is. She goes, why do I
want to waste resources? She goes the money I would
leave them, and she goes, I'm also taking up space
in a medical system that doesn't need me to take
up space. Keep in mind, my friend, this friend is
a researcher. Like it's totally her vibe, Like this is
what a researcher would say.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Logical, linear process, so.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Logical, so but very deep, but very logical in her
decision making in life. Very response, And I'm like, yeah,
very response. I'm like I get it. Yeah, I'm like,
I totally understand where you're coming from. I don't know
if I would do it, but I will think a
lot more about it. And so my answer always, if
I think more about it, I need to talk to
(08:40):
Brenda in a public way, and that's what we do.
And on that note, do you want to take a
quick break? Indeed? Perfect? All right, y'all, we're back. But
instead of listening to me, drone on about my friends
and their stories.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And they're interesting contemplations.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And they're but they but hey, I'm going to hand
it to him for being thoughtful. I mean, I still
love them deeply, but it's it's I think that there's
a lot to consider. I don't listen for services. There's
no right or wrong answer for anybody. They get to pick. Indeed, yes, right,
so they get to pick. So it doesn't really matter
what anybody says about their life. They can say, they
can make up their own mind. But I think a
(09:25):
really interesting part and I know others that I've talked
to that I don't have don't need to go into
stories about Their questions to me when they talk about
it are well, what's this? They call this? What's the
spiritual price to this? Because they've obviously listened to the
show and they know everything has listen to.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
My balance sheet before I to.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Listen to my spiritual balance sheets. So I think my
question to you is that is there a price?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, actions have consequences, right, That's what karma is, so
you know, and dharma right, So yeah, whatever we do
and why we do what we do, there are implications
that go with that no matter what it is. I
think what's important around this topic is to be considering
(10:15):
what is the threshold and you know, where are the boundaries?
For you? That says you know, because when we think
about well, especially if you look at it from a
US perspective. Am I productive?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
We have we have a high value on being productive.
That can mean a lot of different things, right, And
you know, maybe I'm not going to work, but I'm
holding a space of wisdom or history or compassion, or
maybe I'm a safe place for somebody who may not
(10:52):
even be a member of my family. Maybe it is,
but maybe I'm not right. I mean, you have no idea.
You know, you take one person out of the equation,
and there are you know, at least twenty people in
a very small number, would be twenty people who are
(11:12):
negatively impacted by someone jumping right there.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, because I don't think people understand their full value,
is what you're saying. That's exactly things That's and I
you know, I see that every day at the Senior Center.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
But and again in the US, we have a very
strong bias to be active and productive, transactional, transactional, but
and you know, even just adding value in some way.
But we're not always the best judge of what that is.
And especially you know, if the little dementia is setting
(11:46):
in or you know, this is the thing that we
can't process. We can never truly see ourselves until you know,
we do jump and we get the life reviews, and
so I think this is a really important aspect to consider. Now.
I think when there is a great deal of physical pain.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh my god, that's it was in my head. Get
out of my head, lady.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Then I think, you know, there's a different perspective that
you know doesn't contribute to a grace. That doesn't you know,
it's unkind to keep someone in pain, just like we
wouldn't keep of a loved animal in pain, right we right, right,
So there's that situation, and I think that changes it.
(12:32):
But I also think, you know, we are in charge
of our lifetime. We get to make choices for our life.
We're going to be evaluated, you know, like we'll do
the evaluation ourselves. It's not like this external standard. We'll
decide when we get to get the side during the
life review, whether we've done well, whether we contributed, whether
we delivered what we said we were going to deliver.
Where we step back and why we step back? Was
(12:54):
it appropriate taking in a bigger picture? You know, did
we just chicken out like sometimes we do? You know,
we betray ourselves. You know, these are all these things
that we will be you know, establishing what we're going
to do next go around whenever, you know, we get
assigned to another body, and you know, we'll set up
our next our next lifetime, or what we'll focus on
(13:15):
in our recovery time in between lives. And so these
are the things that we're setting up by these choices.
So I think those are the things I would keep
in mind, and I would be having curious, thoughtful conversations,
not only with your loved ones and peers, assuming that
you you know, get to be elderly, like that's a
great status to get to. And people are like, oh
(13:38):
being old so hard and.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Like an elder, you know, right, like be an elder,
like that's worth something more value than our society puts
on it.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Right, right, But the people who get to have those relationships,
the personal relationships with elders, they know, they know the comfort,
they know the wisdom they sit in front of, They
seek it out and and you know, you can't put
a price take on that. That's a quality, right, there's
a presence, that's there's a quality experience there, and so
(14:12):
that's not you know, would you call that productive? I
call it valuable. I don't know that I call it productive.
You can't measure the output, right, But so these are
things that I think are really important and I do
I do for me. I can't have a conversation about
assisted suicide without the hangover that, you know, ending a
(14:37):
physical life before the body is going to give out
right naturally. You know, it has negative connotations karmically, but
that's that's not really the case. That's not really the case.
And so I think I just think it's worth calling
out that. Anytime, you know, the word suicide shows up,
(14:59):
people like, oh, that's bad, you're gonna be You're gonna
burn in a hell, and that is not the situation.
So I think we just need to be really clear
about that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You know, it's interesting when my friend number two heads
you know, talking about she's like, I'm all in. You know,
she's very practical and it's probably what she'll do. And
she said to me, she says, well, you know, what
about you? What do you think? And I said, you know,
(15:28):
I've kind of made this commitment in this life. I
just think, I said, I've made this commitment this lifetime
that I have no interest in taking anyone's life, even
if mine's on the line, I still have an issue
of taking another person's life. I don't know where this
came from. It is how I have felt. It's why
I don't own a gun. That's why I struggle with
(15:49):
a lot of that, the gun culture, everything. We've talked
about that because I don't want to do it. And
I think that and I told her so, I think
what falls in line with this has taking my own.
I'm like, I think it's all part of the same picture.
It's a continue to sure. Yeah, And I'm like, I
just don't think I'm terribly I said, I get the
practicality of it. I get everything that you're saying. I understand.
(16:14):
I'm just not sure that's where I want to be.
And I also think that part of that comes from.
And we've talked about this. I think with past lives.
You know, one of my past lives that can I
knew that was going to come up. And this was
back in the Egyptian early days that I committed suicide.
And I remember asking, it was Jay Luna about this.
(16:35):
I said, well, how do I like, why is it
coming up in this one? I go, what do I
have to do with this? He goes, don't commit suicide,
and I went, oh, noted. You know, I'm like, noted,
I can goot, it can do that one. Yeah, that
math works, is very simple math. But maybe that's why
I've never had I felt that. I've also never been
(16:57):
somebody who's ever been suicidal in this lifetime. I've never
were felt in a really dark time that that was
my solution. I'm not better or worse than anybody else.
It just that hasn't come up. You know, it's not
been a thing. I don't have fantasies of jumping off
of bridges. I don't have any of that kind of stuff.
There's nothing I think that could happen. I actually couldn't
weasel my way out of any way. Let's be honest.
(17:21):
But I think that's all because of my past life
stuff that I deal with in this life, which isn't
for everybody. But that's what I told her.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, right, that makes
a lot of sense. It's just not your nature in
this life.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And no, it doesn't feel like it is.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And we don't get to decide for other people. We
don't know what their past situation, so we don't know
what that feels like to them. But I do feel
like people can navigate that on their own, which is
why the conversations are so important. And you know, wouldn't
it be amazing if we could have these productive conversations
(17:58):
with the people that we work with to take care
of our physical like, you know, our physical being, like
our doctors, Like that would be an amazing dimension to
add to these conversations, I think.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
And you know, I see these folks at you know,
Life Circle, the Senior Adult DAE center that I volunteer
and on the board for, and Susanne volunteers there as well.
In fact, she's becoming, you know, quite smitten with a
number of the clients there, like she adores them. But see,
that's also part of it when you talk about the
(18:32):
ripple effect, their domino effect that happens when one of
our clients actually got pneumonia, we were all devastated. We
love this woman. She is exquisite. She doesn't I mean,
I have to reintroduce myself every time, but you know,
I'm used to. That doesn't bother me a bit, and
which is why I'm there right Like, I'm not affected
(18:53):
in that way, but I get all the good from
these folks, and it's like and I and I think
it's like, I'm so glad they're still here, you know,
I'm just so glad they're here. And again, it's only
my perspective, right, Like it's it's just a single it's
one perspective. And but I'm just kind of like piggybacking
(19:14):
on what you were saying about the domino effect that happens,
a ripple effect that happens, and I would I I
would probably curl up in a fetal position if one
of them took their own lives.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
But my perspective, yeah, I actually don't think you would
in this way if someone was in a lot of
physical pain, Yes, right, you would. You would send them
with grace.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And you like, oh, there's no doubt about that, get it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You don't, you don't. You don't owe us anything.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Like well miss him, you know. It's like, yeah, there's that.
That that's the fetal part I think is that that's
how I respond when people jump. As you very well know,
I take it all really hard. You have witnessed that
firsthand a lot of times? Oh my god, right, yes, yes, yes, okay, well,
(20:05):
speaking of that, like let me let go have my
moment for a couple of seconds, and we'll come back
and finish up this conversation and we are back.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We came back. We didn't we.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Did, We did not. We had quite a ramble in.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Time, Yes we did. So when I think about this topic,
I mean, the number one thing I think is to
you know I talked to at the last I've it
would be amazing to be able to have conversations explore
options with our physical doctors, and we are multi dimensional beings.
We need to have these conversations with our family. We
(20:46):
need to have our conversations with our friends, with our
spiritual mentors and guides, and you know, whatever religious tradition
you have, have conversations with everyone. Get the input, get
the guidance, get the council, get the support. You need
to create a plan that is going to support your vision,
(21:08):
knowing that you're making it from a perspective where you
are not at the end phase yet. So your dream,
your vision, your desire may change once you move further
down the path. Make sure that you keep that in mind.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Right, totally agree, Like there's there's people brand that especially
now with a lot of people who have long COVID
and they'll have that ringing in their ears. I got
to tell you that might be one that would put
me over the edge.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah. And or people who can't breathe properly, or they
keep they you know, keep getting respiratory infections speaking, you know,
and which is it's life changing, right, I mean there's
all kinds of Look these bodies, you know, we're out
for all kinds of reasons. And so when you make
a very clear minded head and heartcome nation decision in
(22:01):
one state and then you end up in another state,
all bes are off, right. So you have to be
able to have great dialogue. You have to be able
to have people who know your intentions and can help
you adjust them if you know, you have a plan
or something written down, or you know, whatever it is,
whatever situation you're in. I also think there is a
(22:23):
really beautiful book out there called Being Mortal. I don't
have the author's name, but it's called Being Mortal, and
it's this compassionate book and it's such a guideline specifically
for him. He was a doctor dealing with aging parents
and conversations to have things to include, things to check with,
(22:47):
you know, make sure that it's super clear and thoughtful.
I mean especially like the example of you know, using
your parents. We know your you obviously know your parents.
You may know them really well, you may be in
touch with them all the time. You may be a
strange from them. And it's like there's all the things
that you just didn't you never had the conversation about.
This is a great guide to have these conversations. And
(23:10):
then also just put this piece in like just at it.
You know, what if something should become you know, unsustainable,
I mean, let's face it, we are all living an
absolutely fatal journey here, right, yes we are.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
We're born to die, folks.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. Yeah, And so like let's not deny it anymore.
You know, we're all there's only one way out. And
so you know that when we embrace that, it it
just drops a veil and says, Okay, let's get real,
let's have a real conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
That's me And it's not as easy as this is,
by the way, this conversation it sounds like, oh, just
do this. It is hard to do this stuff, and
no one is saying it's easy. And just like reassuring
everybody that if it feels hard to us, because honestly,
in some cases it is. I will say, when I
had to fill out the paperwork for my mother's DNR,
(24:07):
that was not easy, that was not pleasant. I hated
every second of it. I cried like a baby because
I love her so fucking much. And that's and sometimes
I don't know if everybody has relationships effect I know
for a fact they don't that I had with my mother. Sorry, y'all,
I had a really fabulous one. But it was devastating
(24:28):
and heart wrenching, and there was nothing that I would
have I would have done anything for not to have
to do that and to bring her, like for her
not to be gone. I just it's just a fact
for me. But it's so necessary to like have conversations.
I knew what her wishes were, so because I knew
her so well, I didn't have Tabrica, and she also
wasn't able to.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
But that's why you have the conversation.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Now you have it now, exactly right. I knew that
she wanted I mean, like I knew she never wanted
to go what she called an an old folks home
pistol off. Didn't want to do it. Yeah, I knew
she bought a she bought a duplex in Tulsa with
the intention that I would put somebody next door to help.
(25:12):
I knew what she wants. She was when I was
a kid. She was clear. Mom was ready to go
at some point.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Isn't that great? Though? What a gift to you? You
didn't have huge no. Look, And the thing is when
you have the conversation with your parents or they have
it with you, it's such an honoring thing. Like your
mom took care of you at the end of her life.
You knew what what was acceptable. You had so much
else you were processing. It's the kindest thing, right, Yes,
(25:42):
And for you to have the conversation out of love
to say, I want to be able to honor you.
What do you want? I so that I'm not going
to make that call for you. You are. You get to
make the call. It's your life. What do you want? Really?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And maybe you're maybe who you love might not respond
the way that you would expect it to, but you
got to try. You know, not everybody is yep, I'll
get it and willing to have convos. Yeah, somehow something.
But I think that even if it even if they
want the assisted jumping, they want the assisted jumping. If
(26:21):
there's going to be pain whatever their reasons are. But
I just thought this was an important topic given its
something that has been actually in the Zeitgei slately, and
I felt it was something to talk about if, if anything,
if anybody's even thinking about it for themselves or if
they've had a loved one, I've had a conversation with
them that that we're having it too, So you're not alone.
(26:46):
The worst thing in all of this is feeling alone.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Absolutely absolutely, And be brave. That's the other thing I
would say, because the worst you can do is be uncomfortable.
People aren't going to be offended, they're really not. You've
got to let people say that, Yep, this is hard,
this is scary, but it's nothing I haven't thought of before.
(27:10):
Is probably what you're.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Going to be met with, right, Oh, there's no question,
of course. We think about our own mortality all the time. Yeah,
how I mean, especially during COVID. Let's be honest, everybody's
had like a jump start to this, so I don't
know anybody who hasn't thought about it because of COVID.
I thought about it during COVID. I'm like, Okay, if
I get this, I might die she'ld probably be prepared
(27:33):
for this. Yeah, make a plan, might jump And then
my plan is, of course not about that stuff. Mind's
about coming back and haunting everybody. So my plans are different.
I'm like, do whatever. I don't need to be taking
up more space than I already am, Like, don't bury
my ass, burn it, do whatever. I'm like, But boy,
I'm going to come back as an awesome ghost. That's
where I go.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Absolutely, I'm cutting on it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Oh hell yes, And who says you're going to outlive me?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Oh, I'm just gonna be checking in from the other side.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
We could go be ghosts together when that'd be fun?
Can we do our own podcast on the other side,
you're only a ghost show and ghost cast, ghost cast,
a ghost cast? Oh my god. And I actually hope
one of the things that we've we've done, I hope
for everyone is actually to take some of the fear
(28:27):
away of all of this. You know, I do joke
about it because I mean it, but I also do
it because I do mean it, but I also and
I want to see other planets, but I do it.
I talk about it like this to make other people comfortable.
That's why we have this We have these conversations to
(28:48):
kind of give you, guys, conversation starters without a doubt
and to not be so afraid of it because it
just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
So report back what you learned.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
We'd love to hear is yes, please as you approach
these conversations.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So thanks for listening, everybody, and remember our school is.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Hard without the other side. And should I stay or
should I go? Thanks everybody, Bye, Thank you for joining
us everyone, and a special thanks to our producer Joey
(29:28):
Patt and our executive producer Maya Cole Howard, who guides
us while we guide. You hit us up on Instagram
at other Side Guides, or shoot us a note at
high Hi at Vibes dot store.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
And remember our school is hard without the other side.
Insider's Guide to the other Side is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is a trigger warning that this episode discusses suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
other Side.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Uh heck, yes it can, because let's be honest, for
in Earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
That let's crush Earth school together.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, hello, my witchy pooh. Should I stay or should
I go? Now? If I go, there will be trouble.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Actually, either way with you, there's it's going to be trouble.
There will be double exactly my point.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I want to anyway, How are you? How are you?
I'm great? Because yes, I'm fantastic. This is a topic
I wanted to talk about for a while. Really, yes
I did.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I did not know this.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Should I say or should I go? You did not know? No,
So this is about the term that you read about
in the press. They call it assisted suicide. We're going
to call it assisted jumping. And it's actually you know,
I tend to be one of those people, as you
very well know. It can be pretty firm in my
(01:42):
stance on things. And and no, for real obviously does
the answer to that. And this one's been in the
press a lot lately because Canada offers this and and
there's been stories about different peace people who are taking
advantage of it, so on and so forth. But it's
(02:04):
something I thought that we should talk about and talk
about it, you know, on the physical plane what it means,
and the spiritual plane what it means.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And such tender and complex. Yeah, to navigate with loved ones.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes it is, Yes, it is, which is why I
have waffled.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, it's very complicated, for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
It is. And so do you want to Can I
start with a story?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
You know, you know you taught me to ask permission? Yes,
so you're laughing. It's a lesson that I learned from you.
I just want to be clear, so everybody knows.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, we would be disappointed if there wasn't this story,
and there's that tell us a story.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And I would be disappointed if I didn't ask permission
from you. First permission is that is a funny thing.
It's something I offer people all the time and it's
very confounding to them, and I tell them why, and
all of a sudden they start asking it. It's a
really interesting thing. Not the show, but just a little
side note for every little footnote for the group. So
(03:11):
this was probably we're I'm going to say nine, ten
years ago, and I'm not going to use names to cuts.
So yeah, a good friend of mine in the business
all this is Helly. So she because it's a she,
So thank you for the ginger specification. So she was
(03:36):
a head of ad sales at one of the networks,
and I love this woman. She is insanely smart and
we became really good friends. And one night we were
out to dinner at one of my favorite restaurants in
Los Angeles called Doctor Hoggley Woggly's Tyler Texas Barbecue. It's
(03:56):
not the shortest restaurant name that you've ever heard, got
Italian places. It's a fantastic sushi restaurant. And it was
interesting because we were there, there's four of us, and
my friend was and she wasn't. She was just talking
wasn't even sometimes we say we talk, but we don't think,
(04:19):
you know, like about your audience or what they'd gone through.
But she was talking about she and her husband had
made this decision that if one of them got terbally ill,
let's say she didn't wasn't specific about what type of
illness that that they would, you know, have their plans
(04:39):
to you know, assisted suicide effectively. And she's talking and
she's a very confident woman, and she's like, I wish
you guys could see me. It's like she's tough, and
she's just like made up her mind and this is
what it is, because that's how she operates in the world.
And so I sat and listened, of course, and when
(05:00):
she was done, I asked permission. I said, do you
mind if I give you another perspective? And she's like,
oh sure, And I said, because they between they don't
have children together, but they have children from separate marriages,
and so there's I think multiple children involved here. And
(05:20):
because part of the rationale was protecting the kids, like
we don't want them to have to worry about us.
That was their view of protection. And I said, well,
if you don't mind, this is kind of my other perspective.
And I said, if my mother would have made that choice,
I would not have learned the most valuable lessons of
my life. I would not have actually found out who
(05:43):
I really was deep in my soul. I would have
never really found out what it would have been to
actually in turn give her unconditional love the way that
she gave me. I would not have completed that journey.
And she sat there and this is a tough ass woman,
(06:05):
tough ass woman, and she sat there and started to sob.
I never thought about that, right, And I'm like, and
I said, girl, I cannot. I did say, girl, I'm like, girl,
I cannot and would never tell you what to do
because that is not my job. That's why I said,
it's just another perspective for you to consider. You could
(06:27):
still go down whatever Mary path you want to go down,
but I just wanted to offer you another way to
look at it. And she has two sons, And I said,
you don't think those boys need to find out more
about what's in their soul? She goes, Okay, that's actually
probably the best point you've made, right close the deal, yeah,
close the deal with you got boys, girl? And they
(06:51):
were younger too at the time, and so you know,
that was where I sat at that time. Now just
with in the last three or four months, hung out
with another very dear friend of mine, of course, it's
Los Angeles. I love her so much, and she and
I were talking about a lot of the stuff in
the news, right with all these people going to I
(07:13):
think it's Switzerland. It's not, Sweeten, I think it's Switzerland
if I'm not mistaken, and Canada and so we're taught,
and so her whole thing was very but everybody, those
two perspectives that I'm giving are are very different for
the rationale and their situations, but they're very much from
the earthly side of it. I think it's probably the
(07:35):
first way to say it. But she was like, she goes, oh,
I would absolutely do this. I go, you would, She goes, oh, yeah,
she goes without a question. She goes, I don't have kids.
So she has really thought about it. She goes, I
don't have kids, and she goes, you know, and I'm
going to leave whatever I have to my nieces and nephews.
And she goes, So if I'm sick and I had
(07:56):
there's no quality of life or I'm out of my
mind or whatever it is. She goes, why do I
want to waste resources? She goes the money I would
leave them, and she goes, I'm also taking up space
in a medical system that doesn't need me to take
up space. Keep in mind, my friend, this friend is
a researcher. Like it's totally her vibe, Like this is
what a researcher would say.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Logical, linear process, so.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Logical, so but very deep, but very logical in her
decision making in life. Very response, And I'm like, yeah,
very response. I'm like I get it. Yeah, I'm like,
I totally understand where you're coming from. I don't know
if I would do it, but I will think a
lot more about it. And so my answer always, if
I think more about it, I need to talk to
(08:40):
Brenda in a public way, and that's what we do.
And on that note, do you want to take a
quick break? Indeed? Perfect? All right, y'all, we're back. But
instead of listening to me, drone on about my friends
and their stories.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And they're interesting contemplations.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And they're but they but hey, I'm going to hand
it to him for being thoughtful. I mean, I still
love them deeply, but it's it's I think that there's
a lot to consider. I don't listen for services. There's
no right or wrong answer for anybody. They get to pick. Indeed, yes, right,
so they get to pick. So it doesn't really matter
what anybody says about their life. They can say, they
can make up their own mind. But I think a
(09:25):
really interesting part and I know others that I've talked
to that I don't have don't need to go into
stories about Their questions to me when they talk about
it are well, what's this? They call this? What's the
spiritual price to this? Because they've obviously listened to the
show and they know everything has listen to.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
My balance sheet before I to.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Listen to my spiritual balance sheets. So I think my
question to you is that is there a price?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, actions have consequences, right, That's what karma is, so
you know, and dharma right, So yeah, whatever we do
and why we do what we do, there are implications
that go with that no matter what it is. I
think what's important around this topic is to be considering
(10:15):
what is the threshold and you know, where are the boundaries?
For you? That says you know, because when we think
about well, especially if you look at it from a
US perspective. Am I productive?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
We have we have a high value on being productive.
That can mean a lot of different things, right, And
you know, maybe I'm not going to work, but I'm
holding a space of wisdom or history or compassion, or
maybe I'm a safe place for somebody who may not
(10:52):
even be a member of my family. Maybe it is,
but maybe I'm not right. I mean, you have no idea.
You know, you take one person out of the equation,
and there are you know, at least twenty people in
a very small number, would be twenty people who are
(11:12):
negatively impacted by someone jumping right there.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, because I don't think people understand their full value,
is what you're saying. That's exactly things That's and I
you know, I see that every day at the Senior Center.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
But and again in the US, we have a very
strong bias to be active and productive, transactional, transactional, but
and you know, even just adding value in some way.
But we're not always the best judge of what that is.
And especially you know, if the little dementia is setting
(11:46):
in or you know, this is the thing that we
can't process. We can never truly see ourselves until you know,
we do jump and we get the life reviews, and
so I think this is a really important aspect to consider. Now.
I think when there is a great deal of physical pain.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh my god, that's it was in my head. Get
out of my head, lady.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Then I think, you know, there's a different perspective that
you know doesn't contribute to a grace. That doesn't you know,
it's unkind to keep someone in pain, just like we
wouldn't keep of a loved animal in pain, right we right, right,
So there's that situation, and I think that changes it.
(12:32):
But I also think, you know, we are in charge
of our lifetime. We get to make choices for our life.
We're going to be evaluated, you know, like we'll do
the evaluation ourselves. It's not like this external standard. We'll
decide when we get to get the side during the
life review, whether we've done well, whether we contributed, whether
we delivered what we said we were going to deliver.
Where we step back and why we step back? Was
(12:54):
it appropriate taking in a bigger picture? You know, did
we just chicken out like sometimes we do? You know,
we betray ourselves. You know, these are all these things
that we will be you know, establishing what we're going
to do next go around whenever, you know, we get
assigned to another body, and you know, we'll set up
our next our next lifetime, or what we'll focus on
(13:15):
in our recovery time in between lives. And so these
are the things that we're setting up by these choices.
So I think those are the things I would keep
in mind, and I would be having curious, thoughtful conversations,
not only with your loved ones and peers, assuming that
you you know, get to be elderly, like that's a
great status to get to. And people are like, oh
(13:38):
being old so hard and.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Like an elder, you know, right, like be an elder,
like that's worth something more value than our society puts
on it.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Right, right, But the people who get to have those relationships,
the personal relationships with elders, they know, they know the comfort,
they know the wisdom they sit in front of, They
seek it out and and you know, you can't put
a price take on that. That's a quality, right, there's
a presence, that's there's a quality experience there, and so
(14:12):
that's not you know, would you call that productive? I
call it valuable. I don't know that I call it productive.
You can't measure the output, right, But so these are
things that I think are really important and I do
I do for me. I can't have a conversation about
assisted suicide without the hangover that, you know, ending a
(14:37):
physical life before the body is going to give out
right naturally. You know, it has negative connotations karmically, but
that's that's not really the case. That's not really the case.
And so I think I just think it's worth calling
out that. Anytime, you know, the word suicide shows up,
(14:59):
people like, oh, that's bad, you're gonna be You're gonna
burn in a hell, and that is not the situation.
So I think we just need to be really clear
about that.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
You know, it's interesting when my friend number two heads
you know, talking about she's like, I'm all in. You know,
she's very practical and it's probably what she'll do. And
she said to me, she says, well, you know, what
about you? What do you think? And I said, you know,
(15:28):
I've kind of made this commitment in this life. I
just think, I said, I've made this commitment this lifetime
that I have no interest in taking anyone's life, even
if mine's on the line, I still have an issue
of taking another person's life. I don't know where this
came from. It is how I have felt. It's why
I don't own a gun. That's why I struggle with
(15:49):
a lot of that, the gun culture, everything. We've talked
about that because I don't want to do it. And
I think that and I told her so, I think
what falls in line with this has taking my own.
I'm like, I think it's all part of the same picture.
It's a continue to sure. Yeah, And I'm like, I
just don't think I'm terribly I said, I get the
practicality of it. I get everything that you're saying. I understand.
(16:14):
I'm just not sure that's where I want to be.
And I also think that part of that comes from.
And we've talked about this. I think with past lives.
You know, one of my past lives that can I
knew that was going to come up. And this was
back in the Egyptian early days that I committed suicide.
And I remember asking, it was Jay Luna about this.
(16:35):
I said, well, how do I like, why is it
coming up in this one? I go, what do I
have to do with this? He goes, don't commit suicide,
and I went, oh, noted. You know, I'm like, noted,
I can goot, it can do that one. Yeah, that
math works, is very simple math. But maybe that's why
I've never had I felt that. I've also never been
(16:57):
somebody who's ever been suicidal in this lifetime. I've never
were felt in a really dark time that that was
my solution. I'm not better or worse than anybody else.
It just that hasn't come up. You know, it's not
been a thing. I don't have fantasies of jumping off
of bridges. I don't have any of that kind of stuff.
There's nothing I think that could happen. I actually couldn't
weasel my way out of any way. Let's be honest.
(17:21):
But I think that's all because of my past life
stuff that I deal with in this life, which isn't
for everybody. But that's what I told her.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, right, that makes
a lot of sense. It's just not your nature in
this life.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And no, it doesn't feel like it is.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And we don't get to decide for other people. We
don't know what their past situation, so we don't know
what that feels like to them. But I do feel
like people can navigate that on their own, which is
why the conversations are so important. And you know, wouldn't
it be amazing if we could have these productive conversations
(17:58):
with the people that we work with to take care
of our physical like, you know, our physical being, like
our doctors, Like that would be an amazing dimension to
add to these conversations, I think.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
And you know, I see these folks at you know,
Life Circle, the Senior Adult DAE center that I volunteer
and on the board for, and Susanne volunteers there as well.
In fact, she's becoming, you know, quite smitten with a
number of the clients there, like she adores them. But see,
that's also part of it when you talk about the
(18:32):
ripple effect, their domino effect that happens when one of
our clients actually got pneumonia, we were all devastated. We
love this woman. She is exquisite. She doesn't I mean,
I have to reintroduce myself every time, but you know,
I'm used to. That doesn't bother me a bit, and
which is why I'm there right Like, I'm not affected
(18:53):
in that way, but I get all the good from
these folks, and it's like and I and I think
it's like, I'm so glad they're still here, you know,
I'm just so glad they're here. And again, it's only
my perspective, right, Like it's it's just a single it's
one perspective. And but I'm just kind of like piggybacking
(19:14):
on what you were saying about the domino effect that happens,
a ripple effect that happens, and I would I I
would probably curl up in a fetal position if one
of them took their own lives.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
But my perspective, yeah, I actually don't think you would
in this way if someone was in a lot of
physical pain, Yes, right, you would. You would send them
with grace.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
And you like, oh, there's no doubt about that, get it.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You don't, you don't. You don't owe us anything.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Like well miss him, you know. It's like, yeah, there's that.
That that's the fetal part I think is that that's
how I respond when people jump. As you very well know,
I take it all really hard. You have witnessed that
firsthand a lot of times? Oh my god, right, yes, yes, yes, okay, well,
(20:05):
speaking of that, like let me let go have my
moment for a couple of seconds, and we'll come back
and finish up this conversation and we are back.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
We came back. We didn't we.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Did, We did not. We had quite a ramble in.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Time, Yes we did. So when I think about this topic,
I mean, the number one thing I think is to
you know I talked to at the last I've it
would be amazing to be able to have conversations explore
options with our physical doctors, and we are multi dimensional beings.
We need to have these conversations with our family. We
(20:46):
need to have our conversations with our friends, with our
spiritual mentors and guides, and you know, whatever religious tradition
you have, have conversations with everyone. Get the input, get
the guidance, get the council, get the support. You need
to create a plan that is going to support your vision,
(21:08):
knowing that you're making it from a perspective where you
are not at the end phase yet. So your dream,
your vision, your desire may change once you move further
down the path. Make sure that you keep that in mind.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Right, totally agree, Like there's there's people brand that especially
now with a lot of people who have long COVID
and they'll have that ringing in their ears. I got
to tell you that might be one that would put
me over the edge.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah. And or people who can't breathe properly, or they
keep they you know, keep getting respiratory infections speaking, you know,
and which is it's life changing, right, I mean there's
all kinds of Look these bodies, you know, we're out
for all kinds of reasons. And so when you make
a very clear minded head and heartcome nation decision in
(22:01):
one state and then you end up in another state,
all bes are off, right. So you have to be
able to have great dialogue. You have to be able
to have people who know your intentions and can help
you adjust them if you know, you have a plan
or something written down, or you know, whatever it is,
whatever situation you're in. I also think there is a
(22:23):
really beautiful book out there called Being Mortal. I don't
have the author's name, but it's called Being Mortal, and
it's this compassionate book and it's such a guideline specifically
for him. He was a doctor dealing with aging parents
and conversations to have things to include, things to check with,
(22:47):
you know, make sure that it's super clear and thoughtful.
I mean especially like the example of you know, using
your parents. We know your you obviously know your parents.
You may know them really well, you may be in
touch with them all the time. You may be a
strange from them. And it's like there's all the things
that you just didn't you never had the conversation about.
This is a great guide to have these conversations. And
(23:10):
then also just put this piece in like just at it.
You know, what if something should become you know, unsustainable,
I mean, let's face it, we are all living an
absolutely fatal journey here, right, yes we are.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
We're born to die, folks.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. Yeah, And so like let's not deny it anymore.
You know, we're all there's only one way out. And
so you know that when we embrace that, it it
just drops a veil and says, Okay, let's get real,
let's have a real conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
That's me And it's not as easy as this is,
by the way, this conversation it sounds like, oh, just
do this. It is hard to do this stuff, and
no one is saying it's easy. And just like reassuring
everybody that if it feels hard to us, because honestly,
in some cases it is. I will say, when I
had to fill out the paperwork for my mother's DNR,
(24:07):
that was not easy, that was not pleasant. I hated
every second of it. I cried like a baby because
I love her so fucking much. And that's and sometimes
I don't know if everybody has relationships effect I know
for a fact they don't that I had with my mother. Sorry, y'all,
I had a really fabulous one. But it was devastating
(24:28):
and heart wrenching, and there was nothing that I would
have I would have done anything for not to have
to do that and to bring her, like for her
not to be gone. I just it's just a fact
for me. But it's so necessary to like have conversations.
I knew what her wishes were, so because I knew
her so well, I didn't have Tabrica, and she also
wasn't able to.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
But that's why you have the conversation.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Now you have it now, exactly right. I knew that
she wanted I mean, like I knew she never wanted
to go what she called an an old folks home
pistol off. Didn't want to do it. Yeah, I knew
she bought a she bought a duplex in Tulsa with
the intention that I would put somebody next door to help.
(25:12):
I knew what she wants. She was when I was
a kid. She was clear. Mom was ready to go
at some point.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Isn't that great? Though? What a gift to you? You
didn't have huge no. Look, And the thing is when
you have the conversation with your parents or they have
it with you, it's such an honoring thing. Like your
mom took care of you at the end of her life.
You knew what what was acceptable. You had so much
else you were processing. It's the kindest thing, right, Yes,
(25:42):
And for you to have the conversation out of love
to say, I want to be able to honor you.
What do you want? I so that I'm not going
to make that call for you. You are. You get to
make the call. It's your life. What do you want? Really?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And maybe you're maybe who you love might not respond
the way that you would expect it to, but you
got to try. You know, not everybody is yep, I'll
get it and willing to have convos. Yeah, somehow something.
But I think that even if it even if they
want the assisted jumping, they want the assisted jumping. If
(26:21):
there's going to be pain whatever their reasons are. But
I just thought this was an important topic given its
something that has been actually in the Zeitgei slately, and
I felt it was something to talk about if, if anything,
if anybody's even thinking about it for themselves or if
they've had a loved one, I've had a conversation with
them that that we're having it too, So you're not alone.
(26:46):
The worst thing in all of this is feeling alone.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Absolutely absolutely, And be brave. That's the other thing I
would say, because the worst you can do is be uncomfortable.
People aren't going to be offended, they're really not. You've
got to let people say that, Yep, this is hard,
this is scary, but it's nothing I haven't thought of before.
(27:10):
Is probably what you're.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Going to be met with, right, Oh, there's no question,
of course. We think about our own mortality all the time. Yeah,
how I mean, especially during COVID. Let's be honest, everybody's
had like a jump start to this, so I don't
know anybody who hasn't thought about it because of COVID.
I thought about it during COVID. I'm like, Okay, if
I get this, I might die she'ld probably be prepared
(27:33):
for this. Yeah, make a plan, might jump And then
my plan is, of course not about that stuff. Mind's
about coming back and haunting everybody. So my plans are different.
I'm like, do whatever. I don't need to be taking
up more space than I already am, Like, don't bury
my ass, burn it, do whatever. I'm like, But boy,
I'm going to come back as an awesome ghost. That's
where I go.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Absolutely, I'm cutting on it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Oh hell yes, And who says you're going to outlive me?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Oh, I'm just gonna be checking in from the other side.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
We could go be ghosts together when that'd be fun?
Can we do our own podcast on the other side,
you're only a ghost show and ghost cast, ghost cast,
a ghost cast? Oh my god. And I actually hope
one of the things that we've we've done, I hope
for everyone is actually to take some of the fear
(28:27):
away of all of this. You know, I do joke
about it because I mean it, but I also do
it because I do mean it, but I also and
I want to see other planets, but I do it.
I talk about it like this to make other people comfortable.
That's why we have this We have these conversations to
(28:48):
kind of give you, guys, conversation starters without a doubt
and to not be so afraid of it because it
just is what it is.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
So report back what you learned.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
We'd love to hear is yes, please as you approach
these conversations.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So thanks for listening, everybody, and remember our school is.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Hard without the other side. And should I stay or
should I go? Thanks everybody, Bye, Thank you for joining
us everyone, and a special thanks to our producer Joey
(29:28):
Patt and our executive producer Maya Cole Howard, who guides
us while we guide. You hit us up on Instagram
at other Side Guides, or shoot us a note at
high Hi at Vibes dot store.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
And remember our school is hard without the other side.
Insider's Guide to the other Side is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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