May 1, 2024 • 45 mins
What begins as a story involving golf and facing your truth transforms into a bittersweet tale where dreams, decisions, and death intertwine.
Join us today as Julie shares how a cross-country journey altered her life path and the people she loved and lost along the way. Tender, touching, and relatable, sometimes 'time' is irrelevant when wounds are left open, but that's how the Other Side holds space for the tears that still need to flow.
Because Earth School is hard, but the Other Side is forever there for you.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can, because, let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Well, hello, my witchy o pooh, have I missed you?
You've been like doing our show without me. It's like
Insider Guide from Brenda.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
No, it's not like that at all. It's just holding
a space, just holding sacred space. Yeah yeah, So where
what have you been up to, my olf?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, I've been working, moving, and not sleeping.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's not like you.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
No, it's not like me. Uh so, I actually wanted
to hijack this episode. I'm a psychic haijacker. I'm like
jacking the other side I and I think part of
why I haven't been sleeping is I've been actually uh. There.
(01:34):
I have an unresolved grief situation. I had somebody in
my life that just jumped I say, in my life.
But and I'm not going to reveal it. I'm not
going to reveal it yet reveal I can't even speak
reveal it yet. Want to tell the story. Breathe elf, breathe, Yeah,
(01:56):
I want to actually unveil the story. And I think
part of what has been keeping me up was I
believe this person contacted me the other night. But I've
been wanting, I've been, I've been, I think, dealing with it,
this this unresolved thing in my life, and I wanted
to share it because I've made I think I've made
(02:17):
a promise to everybody if I didn't say it this way,
is you know, to be as transparent as I can
be vulnerable. I really believe I think everybody's probably learned
this at least once. Is because I think we learned
from other people's stories. And I just I think this
is a doozy and I can't possibly be the only
(02:37):
one that has that is dealing with it, will deal
with it, or will ever deal with it. So I
just want to share the story and and hopefully I
can sleep tonight, So I'm gonna use y'all to sleep.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Is there anything before you get started? Is there anything
specific that you would like from me to hold the
space for you? Because it sounds like it comes from
a deep space.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
We'll find out it does come from you know what.
We're just gonna So just so y'all know, Brenda doesn't know. Shit,
I didn't you like the pause in between Brenna doesn't
know and then the pause and shit. But I actually said,
I go, I need. I feel like this is important.
It's definitely important to me, I hope will be important
to other people. And I actually want you to experience
(03:23):
the unfolding of it so you know where to come in. Okay,
So yeah, of course you will. I mean you're Brenda,
for the love of God. Okay. So I'm going to
start with the story, and I'm going to start in
nineteen seventy six, okay, as everything like that wasn't that
by centennial centennial? So in nineteen seventy six, I was
(03:45):
seven years old, and I remember the day that mom
came home, Margaret came home and she goes, I got
you something, and she got me a seven iron a No.
Nine iron, a seven iron, and a five iron, and
she took me out to the driving range at our
(04:05):
little crappy country club in my Oklahoma, and she had
a bucket of range balls what they're called, and she
sitt here, no instruction, no nothing. So I picked up
the club. I held it like a baseball bat because
I had I mean, I had no instruction. I just
held the thing. The first time I swung and hit
a ball, it went high in the air and far
(04:29):
it was. I had a gift that was I was
born with. I had this incredible hand eye coordination. Mom
later in life used to say, give the kid a
stick and a ball, and she can play anything. And
that was the beginning of what became an early career
(04:49):
in golf for me. By the time I was nine
years old, I was beating about ninety five percent of
the people at the country club. Yeah. When I was ten,
I won my first state championship in Oklahoma in the
nine holers group because they have nine holes in eighteen
(05:11):
holes for those that don't play. And so the first
year I played, I won at Southern Hills Country Club
u Tulsa, Oklahoma. When I was eleven, I won again
when I was twelve, I went up to the big
girls group and the eighteen holers and I was actually
runner up in the state and still hold a record
(05:32):
for being the youngest to ever achieve that.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So at twelve, you were playing eighteen holes in competition. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
After that, I was competing nationally. I think by the
time I was a senior in high school, I was
ranked in the top ten in the country, being recruited
by different colleges to play golf, all the while, uh
(06:03):
not really enjoying the game. Just to be really frank
about it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
What what kept you playing?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So what kept me playing was most people know about
my not so fabulous on the Virgius super tragic childhood
with the stepfather. It was I got out of the house,
which was big bonus, and I had it was like
many famous in a small shitty town, you know. I
(06:36):
was Julie the golfers, really great at something. It started
to grow a little bit more. It was it was
I was adored. I was admired ways I didn't feel
when I was in mom's presence. Yeah, A mom was different,
Like it's you know, it's that whole weird household thing
of one side of the house was like heaven. The
(06:56):
other side was hell, you know, So it was there
was a way to escape my life, I think, you know,
But honestly, I never liked it. But I was really
good at it, which is a really weird thing, just
for the record, like to be really good at something
but to really not give a shit about it. And
also the worst part of it, well know, there's a
lot of worse parts of it, but a really bad
(07:17):
part of it is I was good without practicing, and
everybody knew I didn't practice, and so the other girls
or boys that I would play against were so frustrated
because I didn't try. You know. I'd go out and
practice a little bit, and the thing is I was good.
It's like kind of I mean, imagine if I focused
and gave a shit the only thing that I truly loved,
(07:44):
and it wasn't even me what I truly loved. And
I remember my mom doing this at a golf course
called Cedar Springs, I think it was Theater something and Tulsa,
and it was she would follow me, she would like
hide in the rough behind trees because she just wanted
to watch me play. And the joy I got was
(08:05):
the joy I saw on her face. That was truly
the joy that I had. Did she play, Oh my god, yes,
she was terrible. She made me hit her ball, and
I remember one time she made me play with her
and I hit all of them. I mean, like I
she would hit from where I'd hit her ball. And
one time she got so pissed off because she hit
her ball in the sand trap. She got in there,
(08:25):
couldn't get out of the sandtrap, and she's yelling, God,
damn it, and she leans down, picks up the ball
and tosses it up on the green and I fell
over laughing for just how frustrated she was. But yeah, no,
she was not that good of a My mom wasn't.
She was a swimmer, she wasn't a golfer. Okay, she
did it for fun, you know. But yeah, so she
(08:47):
had a kid that was really good at this shit,
like I. You know, I remember being in my early
teens and I would go play by myself, you know,
just go out and play around, and I would hear
guys that were very intimidated. Some guys were great because
they thought it was cute. A girl was good, right, Yeah,
(09:07):
that's not really great. It was just condescending. Then there
were ones who were actually horrified, and then they would
say things like, well, she gets to play from the
red tea. So in golf, there are three teas. There's
the and when I play, there were the red tees.
The white teas were the men's teas, which were further
back made the whole longer. And then behind that was
(09:28):
the championship teas, and those were the blue teas. So
just to fuck with them all, I would play from
the blue teas them not exaggerating, I mean, I don't
roll on. It was just what my world. What my
world was. So so then came college recruitment, and I
(09:50):
wanted to take a break because I want to come
back because this is a good time to hit part
two of this story.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Okay, we'll be right back and welcome back to next
the cliffhanger. Here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
For being unresolved.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
For being unresolved, here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So yeah, so college of recruitment came up and I
was for I was supposed to go to Georgia University
of Georgia. I was going to be a Georgia Bulldog.
At the time, Georgia was ranked second in the country.
They were ranked behind University of Tulsa and UH. In
(10:35):
college athletics, they only have a set amount of scholarships,
and I think maybe golf usually had between like six
full scholarships and sometimes they would split them and do whatever.
In the scholarship I was supposed to get at Georgia
was actually held by a young woman who ended up
red shirting. In red shirting, is you kind of sit
(10:58):
out the year so you could keep your skull Like
what happens is most at most college athletes cannot make
it through a university in four years.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It is. It's a lot to be a taxing athlete.
It is very tax It's you don't have hardly a
minute to yourself. So the one I was supposed to
actually get this from ended up red shirting kind of late,
so the coach had to pull it from me. And yeah,
(11:29):
I was, as you can imagine, devastated. I mean, I've
always been quite sensitive, let's be honest. I mean it's
not something that came up later in life. It's something
that came.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Up to birth.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Before that, from the get go, from the tike go,
being kind of sensitive, and I was pretty despondent, like
for a couple of days, I was just distant to
really do anything, and my mom said to me, she said, well, honey,
what do you want to do? And I said, you know,
I've been recruited by Oklahoma. I might as well's just
go there. Like it was. It was that that level
(12:03):
of excitement. Yeah, and I'm being totally truthful, Like my
level excitement was very low.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's not what I wanted. Yeah, it's despondent, right, it was.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I was desponded. So I made it just really, this
is interesting. So the decision I made. You're going to
find out how that paid off here in a minute.
So I ended up getting scholarship to Oklahoma, lived in
the jock dorms. My college roommate named Cindy was fantastic.
(12:35):
Our coach was. I say it was because now we're
headed to part of the What's end resolved. Her name
was Carol Ludvigsen, who just jumped last week. And so
I played on the team for two years, so in
nineteen we started in nineteen seventy six. Now we're going
(12:57):
to fast forward to nineteen eighty nine. So I was
nineteen two months shy of twenty. My frontal cortex was
not fully formed, just to remind everybody. And somehow my
mother let me take an internship in Chicago, Oh mercy,
(13:19):
and let me drive there by myself, oh, as a
nineteen year old, right on the verge of twenty March. No,
it was all fine. I mean I made everything was fine.
But while I was driving and by myself, I had
my ship packed in my little Mazda six two six
that was silver. And it's weird the things you remember
(13:44):
when you're up at three am thinking about all these
fine details. But I remember driving, and it was kind
of late in the evening. I think it was late,
like two am, but it was late in the evening.
And my whole life, I've been a fan of three artists,
Neil Diamond and Murray and Barry Maneloe because that's what
my mother listens to. And still to this day, I
(14:05):
love all three and for all of our Canadian listeners
and the Canadian I'm with I'm with you to boot.
So on this drive, I had a cassette tape also
signifies the era. Also the era I had this cassette
tape and no cell phone, so just clear that up.
(14:29):
I was listening to this Barry Manlow Greatest Hits, and
this song came up and it was I made it
through the Rain. I won't bother everybody, but he could
listen to it later if you care to. While that
song is playing, I start thinking about I don't want
to play golf anymore. Oh yeah. And so I'm listening
(14:50):
to Barry saying I made it through the rain. Couldn't
stop it. I had to do it, y'all. And and
as I'm listening to this song, I make a decision
that I'm going to quit the golf team.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, So I just want to back up from it.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, back up.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So obviously, when we're driving alone, we have a lot
of time. You know that we can't distract ourselves because
we're driving, so that can be helpful. Plus you have
music hitting the emotional field, right, But you had been
aware of this thought, like I don't love golf. But
did you know that I don't want to play anymore?
(15:27):
Did you? Were you conscious of that before you got.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
In the car?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Okay, now that's what that's what it feels.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But insight, it's a little obvious though it also shows
you frontal cortex. The cortex thing, is it wasn't really
like clicking. Because I took an internship at an ad
agency in Chicago. I did not plan to spend my
summer playing in tournaments and practicing golf. So let's just
be real clear, like there were signs, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, but also just because you're taking an internship in
Chicago doesn't isn't overtly saying I'm not going to golf
this summer. Did you not pack your clubs?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Fuck? No, I didn't pack my clubs. Okay, No, didn't
take them with me? Nothing?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Oh okay, Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Now, so obviously I and I think a lot of
my well i'll get to the I'll get to in
the second. And so, so I made this decision. I've
never felt this feeling. I never felt what I'm about
to describe prior to this moment, and I've never felt
it after. So when I'm driving me and Barry, so
(16:30):
I he shot done, and I made and I made
like it was like the final decision. I'm like, I
don't want to do this anymore. I want an education,
is really what it was like. I want an education,
and I'll give it them more than yourself. A second,
but the most powerful thing. I physically felt chains being
(16:52):
lifted off my neck and shoulders. I felt them, I
felt weight and it was chained.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Awesome, right, So I so I knew that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Was my sign. Yeah, wow, doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, I didn't know. I was so constrained by this right,
so blesant to buy it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, I was like imprisoned by something. I was awesome
at weird, right, but.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
It's so, it's so amazing because the body always knows.
The body knows, the body knows.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So now remember, no cell phone, I can't talk to anybody. Yeah,
it's only me and Barry. Still, I make it to
Chicago and Anne and Neil and I know. But it
was Barry who was like, he was my man help keeper.
He was my he's also my gay keeper. So so
(17:45):
I get to Chicago. I pulled into the place that
Mom had set up this rent, like for me to rent. Okay,
so here's what I thought. I was like, I don't
know what I thought was good I was walking into,
but I pretty much think I rent. I got a
room in a halfway house. You weren't allowed to stay
there more than three months, and they provided breakfast and dinner,
and you had a room and he had to share
(18:06):
a bathroom on the floor. So I think I stayed
in a half way house when I interned in Chicago.
Just f y everybody, Oh my god. So but here's
what's funny. I had a great time. I made it great.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Of course he did.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
So they had a payphone, so I got a pay
phone in the hall, Yeah they did. It was a payphone.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Didn't everyone else there have ankle bracelets?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So I mean, right, I mean it kind of seems
like I was. I think I was in a half
way house and he was like five hundred bucks a month,
and back in that was a lot. Yeah, but no,
well it was five hundred buck. My rent in Dallas
was one hundred and forty.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So so.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I'm in the halfway house. But they fed me twice
a day, and uh that not unpacked my stuff. And
the first thing I did was I went to a payphone.
I called my mom and I'm like, Mom, I don't
think I want to play golf anymore. Said in fact,
it's not just I think I don't want to. And
I wasn't terrified to tell her because that's wasn't the
relationship that we had. And she goes baby I will
support you. I you know, tell me more. And I said,
(19:11):
you know, Mom, I I I think I realized something
was off when I took this episode. By the way,
Micah cut along, y'all, so get comfy. So I told her.
I said, when I took the entrance exam to get
into the journalism school at University of Oklahoma, it was
very rare for people to pass the first time. And
(19:32):
I actually passed the first time, and I was accepted
to the j school. And I remember seeing my name
is back in the days again, pre computer, pre all
this shit, right like dark ages, they would they would
post they would post it on the glass wall or
glass yeah and so, and my name was on it
that I passed. And I remember walking out of there
(19:55):
and I swear I floated down the stairs or ind
and I felt like I jumped like Mary Tyler Moore.
And I told Mom, I said, I have never felt
that way about golf. Oh, in fact, I'll say about anything. Yeah,
I never felt it. And i've and I had had
(20:16):
a hole in one and didn't give a shit. I
literally had a hole in one and I kind of didn't
give a shit.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You had a hole in one before you were twenty yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Oh yeah, yeah. I was fifty playing at an AJJ
tournament in uh like Lake Tahoe, uh in front of
a guy named Phil Mickelson for anybody who follows golf,
who was one of the most famous male professional golfers.
Didn't give a shit. I mean, I just literally didn't
give a shit. So I told her. And so when
(20:47):
I told her the story, right, I told you working,
you didn't know any of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I did not know any of that.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, and here's the thing nobody did until today. I
never talked about this. No, I've never talked about this.
This has been this like kind of deep seated thing
and like it's ps it's going to get way worse
here in a minute. So so I told mom about it. Shees, honey,
I understand, she said, no, I'm going to tell you.
(21:15):
I go. What's that? She says, this is your decision.
You're an adult, and you need to go take care
of it. You need to call coach. I said, okay,
because she also raised me that way. She raised me
to make your decisions and live with them, deal with
the bad ones, celebrate the good ones, but you take
care of your own stuff. I really didn't want her
(21:36):
to say that because I wanted her to call coach
for me. Secretly, I'm just gonna let y'all know I
wanted my mama to like step in and rescue me.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, knew that was not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
No, it wasn't going to happen. It was not Margaret.
So I called Carol and told her I didn't want
to play anymore. I vaguely remember the conversation. I remember
we were both crying on the phone. I'm pretty much.
I'm pretty sure. I think the overall message that I
gave was it's not you, it's me. It's also true
(22:11):
breaking up. I mean it kind of in a way.
So you know that was was rough and emotional and
all of those things. And so I ended up transferring
to SMU, but I had to spend one more semester
at University of Oklahoma because I had decided this big
(22:32):
decision was too late to get into SMU and in
the fall. Okay, so I embarked on probably the loneliest
time I've ever had in my life. I ended up
getting an apartment that was out off campus.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
By your people.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, it was by myself because my world were the golfers,
the team, and the coach, and no one spoke to
me again except my friend Audra Mel's wife, Audra. They
all were done with me. I'm gon get into the
part here. Yeah right, uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
What the hell? That's awful we were. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I don't want to make excuses. I'm just going to
say this is what it was. I spent I mean
as the lonely at four months I've ever had in
my life. I remember being on campus and seeing my
freshman roommate and I saw her and I was getting
ready to like wave, and she turned over. She turned around,
she looked at me, she saw me, and then she
(23:36):
looked back and walked away. And I remember thinking, wow,
I bailed you out.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Of jail, and now I want to put you back in. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I bailed her now, I mean she she went to
still Water with her boyfriend on the football team, and
with a whole bunch of other football players, got hammered,
went to a kettle restaurant where they used to have
that all you can eat breakfast for four bucks, you
know buffet thing. It's very Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, you take your word for it, but still you
would think you would think on a team, you're building camaraderie,
you take care of each other.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Friendships, right, So so the things that would roll through
the things that roll through my head were things like
I abandoned them, which I can see that they would
feel that way. I also funny enough, because I quit
at the top of my game. For the record, I
quit after we played in Las Crusis, New Mexico, and
I think I shot par for the tournament.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
No, like I quit at like literally the height of
my game, and but it made room for other people
to go in and compete for that spot.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I mean I did hear some trash talk that happened
and things like that, but you know, it was a
really lonely time. So is this good for another break?
I do part three? Yeah, we'll do part three. Okay,
y'all hang with me, y'all. It'll be worth it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Okay, Going to resolve the unresolved? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Something? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
We'll we'll be right back and welcome back, okay, my ouf, Yes,
take us, take us with it. Yeah, where are we going?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I want to bring us home the dark Knight of
the Soul. Yeah, I'm going to bring us home, I
think is so, you know, here's this event in my
life that was, you know, pretty substantial. And I don't
even think at the time I knew exactly why I
(25:36):
didn't want to play anymore. I think I I think later,
when I would talk more to my mom about it,
I would tell her things like, you know, uh, I
use it as a crutch. I needed to grow up.
I needed to not be Julie the golfer anymore. Because
I did. I felt that's what I did with the sport.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So here's what.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Happened for the last fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, what's your stepfather still in the house at this now? No?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
No, no, no, no, no he no. I think I
was twelve when Mom booted him. Okay, well, okay, this
ship last. It still hangs around. You know, it's like
gonner rihea. It never goes away. So exactly what my
mother would say. By the way, people are like, what's
gone a rhea? Or she called the clap So yeah,
(26:29):
she called goner rihea, diarrhea, all these which called the
Ria sisters. She was a mother, a freak of awesome nature.
She was funny shoes funny. So I think I started
to understand more and I would express and I would
talk to her about it, and that I just I
(26:49):
didn't need it in my life. I needed just to
be who I was, whoever that may be. I wasn't
quite sure, you know, but I'm gonna fast forward to
let's call it fifteen years ago. We all have cell phones,
we have Facebook, you know, we have the interweb, we
have all these things. I ended up getting Carol's phone,
(27:11):
her cell phone number, and I would reach out for
fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
You were looking, you were looking for it.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
No, I actually got it from Audra like I had.
Audre gave me Carol's cell phone and I had I had.
She was on Facebook. I think, so I had ways
and I would constantly, consistently, if not twenty years, would
reach out. And I wasn't looking for anything in particular.
I think what I was really looking for was, I
(27:41):
don't know, to maybe apologize for how I handled it.
I'm not sure whether I needed to sit there and
listen to where I failed anybody for any reason? Did
I not communicate clearly? I was really open. I wanted
to clean it up. I wanted I wanted Carol to
(28:03):
know that for that part of my life, like everybody
was so incredibly important to me, and I just was
so sorry that it didn't extend beyond that, Like it
just felt so unfinished, you know, it was it was
it was like you know, baking a cake and it
comes out half bad or half caked. It's like it
(28:23):
wasn't done. I just needed to I needed to know,
so I needed to understand something I needed to And
I'm all willing to apologize. I'm all willing to do
any of those things. That's actually been a pretty consistent,
I think, part of a good chunk of my life.
And so I call and then I'd get a text
(28:43):
that says, oh really, because I was called Reager back
then too, Oh Reager, you know, sorry I missed you.
Call me in a few days. So this went on
for decades. I think I saw her on a zoom
call during COVID because there was this They were having
a zoom call with some old players them like my
(29:04):
generation and my old teammates were on there, and I
knew because Audra right. So Audra like kept me in
the loop on things and invited me to join this,
and I said, you know, I really would like for
you to ask if it's okay, because I don't want
to trigger anybody like I because I don't know. I'm
I'm here in the dark, right right. I see Carol,
(29:26):
and I'll see another teammate who also jumped not long
after that named Audrey, who was amazing and she had
cancer as well. That's Carol actually passed last week of cancer.
And it's sixty three. And I think Audrey, I know,
I think Audrey was in her mid fifties. And I
was able to tell Audrey at the time on that
call in front of everyone, how incredibly important she was.
(29:50):
She was like our grounding force. She was this you know,
very loving, supportive energy that she gave to everyone. So
I was able to at least tell her that. You know,
we've talked before, Brenda on air off air about when
people have come to us and shared their stories about
the impact that we had on them, and I always
(30:11):
want to give that back, you know. I always want
to tell people who have done that for me. And
maybe that's why I wanted to tell Carol. I don't
know what I wanted to tell her.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
But this is the first time you're able to speak
to her.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Correct, That's the first time I had spoken to her
in thirty two years, maybe after chasing her, trying to
resolve right, and I knew so I knew she was sick. Audra,
because I'm still close with Audra. She told me that,
(30:44):
you know, Caeren wasn't doing well. And then mel actually
called me when I was in Los Angeles last week
to tell me that Carol had passed. And I haven't
slept great since then. In fact, the other night, when
I actually did get some I swear to you, she
came to me. I can't remember exactly what was said,
(31:06):
but I swear she came to me. Didn't feel resolved,
you know, I because I still I'm still dealing with
the unresolved nature. And I don't know if it's just
her I'm unresolved about, or if it's the whole experience,
the larger group, the whole thing it was. Even though
it was my choice and I recognize that and I
(31:27):
and I made the right shore. I don't regret my
choice whatsoever. Oh my god, No, no, like zero regret
with that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
She she just loved you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Is that why.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
She just loved you so much? And she felt one
she didn't want to lose you. Obviously, she because because
she felt like golf actually had more to give to you.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, but she's fair, that's fair, right.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, she actually loved the game. She knew what you
did for the team, she knew what golf did you
know to get you to school. But she actually thought
golf could help you connecting with more of your own
power right now, just between you and golf, and she
(32:26):
didn't get a chance to do that. So she felt
like she failed you. And the fact that you had
a whole trajectory for a vision for your whole life
that she wasn't even aware of. She felt like she
failed you because while she loved the game and she
wanted to give that talk to the team, to every girl,
(32:49):
every young woman who was there, she felt like she
missed this from you. So she felt like a terrible
coach because she knew, she knew how to how to
navigate some other of the young women. You know, away
from golf.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
There were some really players that thought they were done.
I mean, she was way nicer than that. But she's
totally right about that.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, but she she didn't realize that you had this
other vision and we're perfectly suited for She never doubted
your intelligence or your gifts and how fast your mind moved.
But she she didn't see that. She was blind and
so she felt insecure and in sufficient for you, and
(33:35):
so it blindsided her in a way that she had
so much shame. Fuck, that's why she couldn't take your call,
not because she didn't love you, for the opposite reason.
She had so much shame that she had had had
failed you.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wow. Right, So y'all, this is an unresolved exactly why
I needed to talk about it today.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
She loves you so much, she's in awe of you.
She watched your whole career.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
On the innerweb machine.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
In those shame no, no, but just the fact that.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
She couldn't receive you, Okay, I try?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Or did I try?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I tried, and it was her insecurity, right, it was
her insecurity and shame.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
So she did come to me the other night. Huh. Yeah,
I knew she did. She knows something staying up thinking
about this for nights.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Says you are always sensitive.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
We all knew that. No mystery there. No.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, she's laughing when she says you can sleep now,
Thank you were good. I died that she needed it too.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Carrying this around for a long time.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I did try.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
She's so sorry that she put you through that. That's
not what she intended. She wasn't aware. She wasn't aware.
She thought she was the only one in pain about it.
You had nothing to be ashamed of. You were doing
exactly what students are supposed to do, find themselves, and
you did better than most. Okay, you did it better
(35:59):
than most, like you do everything else.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
In my When I thought she visited me, I could
have sworn I reminded her to go hang out with mom.
Did she happen to do that? She loved my mother,
and my mother loved her.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Told her to say, hey, it hasn't happened yet, she's
not been there that long. No, but she's on the list.
She's on the list.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
My mother loved her. She used to talk about me
behind my back and it didn't bother me. She would
like reach out to my mom and talk to mom,
and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Okay, yeah, they needed that. They both loved you. That
was what they hadn't come, and it was me. Yeah right, yeah, yeah,
they'd love for you. That's what they hadn't come, and
that's what they celebrated. Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Not what I expected. Never is yeah, right, yeah, it
never is. Wow. Well, everybody welcome for this joyous fucking episode.
M But I think that.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
You can let it go. You can let it go,
she says, you can let it go. Well, I will
see you again. And she had a beautiful life plan
for you, she knows it. But you would not have
had had to work so hard if only you loved golf.
(37:34):
The fact that you didn't kind of got in the way,
I know, she said. But the thing is, you not
being attached to the game helped you play with freedom.
So it never looked like you were suffering. You played
with such freedom. But that's what we all longed for. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
She used to bitch at me for not wearing socks.
By the way, I've hated socks my whole life. She
may be playing this sleek one time, and I wouldn't
wear socks like the things that I remember. It was such.
I mean, the thing is, it's like you look at
different times of your life and everything has different levels
of power, and to it right that time that was
(38:18):
held a lot of power. If I'm sitting here at
fifty four going on fifty five, right, I just talked
about from nineteen going on twenty and the power it
holds from night kin going on twenty to fifty four
going on fifty five is a lot. Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's a lot. And without this tension in this decision,
you wouldn't have you wouldn't have developed the resolve and
the resilience to tackle what you tackled in life. Right.
(38:58):
This served you. I see that it didn't wound you
in a way that was damaging. It created a wound
for you to recover from. Right. Like when you break
a bone and then the bone heels, it's stronger in
that place than the rest of the bone because of
the cartilage laid down. That's that's how it served you.
(39:21):
This was not a mistake, This was not an error
in your life. This was part of your path for
your strength and for your resilience. Think of the fights
that you had to fight right because you knew it
was right and you stood up and it exhausted you sometimes,
but you had that inner strength because of the decisions
like this that you made when you were twenty that
(39:42):
you made. I think that was my correction.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Nineteen going on twenty. I'm an August baby. And so
is Carol.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
And I remember her birthday, Augustabeth Leo to Leo.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Isn't that funny? But like, I can't remember so many
people's birthdays, but I remember hers. But you know what,
It's true. It was actually the first time I've ever
made a really hard decision.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Mm hmm, she's right.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, should we rename this podcast resolved? I'm not sure?
Now I knew, I didn't. I knew. I didn't want
to tell you about any of it ahead of time. Yeah,
so you were with me the whole way.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I was with you the whole way. Didn't you did
not know where it was going. And there's one other thing, Yeah,
she wanted to know. She wants you to know it
was only out of sheer love and admiration for you
that she did not ever approach you as a student
(40:50):
to come back. She wanted to do that.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So many time, so for me to come back to OU.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
She'd come back to the to the to the t
even if like, even if you didn't come back to play,
but to heal. And she said she felt like it
would have been disrespectful of your decision. And it was
one of the hardest things she's ever done. Wow, to
not reach out to you for years, for years, this
(41:24):
was hard for her.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Well, we sure did break each other's hard, didn't we?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Out of love and stubbornness and fear.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Wait? Was I the stubborn one in the scenario? I
have to sit up for this answer.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't think so. I think the stubbornness and the fear,
especially when you reached out to her so many times,
that was all on her. It was shame. It was shame.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Wow. Okay, Well, this has probably been the longest episode
we've ever had. And thank you. I thank you Carol,
and certainly thank you my Witchiboo of course. And I
hope those who have been able to make it through
this because I barely did myself, that you kind of
(42:38):
look at your own life and you look at these
situations and learn from them. Sometimes it's a little late.
I think. Know a few things is that if you
can resolve, make an effort. If you can't, it eventually
will be I guess I am not sure exactly what
else to say.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
If you can't. If you can't resolve, if you don't
have direct actus access through your own dreams and meditation
or mediumship, just choose.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Lovey that's best advice ever.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
And I want to thank everyone for listening and remember
that our school is hard, so very hard sometimes, and
it is never without the presence and love and support
of the other side. Thanks for listening, everybody, Thank you
(43:41):
for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks to our
producer Joey Patt and our executive producer Maya Cole Howard,
who guides us while we guide.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
You hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides,
or shoot us a note at high Hi at vibes
dot store.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
And remember, our school is hard.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Without the other Side. Insider's Guide to the Other Side
is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, Apple podcast, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Welcome to Insider's Guide to the Other Side, a production
of iHeartRadio. Hi, y'all, I'm Julie.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi there, I'm Brenda. Welcome to Insider's Guide to the
Other Side.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Now, y'all need to know that we are obsessed with
everything on the other side.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yes, we are, because once you learn to navigate the energetic,
or to some the invisible world, life is going to
be more fun and much more serene.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Uh heck, yes it can, because, let's be honest, br in,
earth school is hard. In fact, you taught me.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
That let's crush Earth School together.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Well, hello, my witchy o pooh, have I missed you?
You've been like doing our show without me. It's like
Insider Guide from Brenda.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
No, it's not like that at all. It's just holding
a space, just holding sacred space. Yeah yeah, So where
what have you been up to, my olf?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, I've been working, moving, and not sleeping.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's not like you.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
No, it's not like me. Uh so, I actually wanted
to hijack this episode. I'm a psychic haijacker. I'm like
jacking the other side I and I think part of
why I haven't been sleeping is I've been actually uh. There.
(01:34):
I have an unresolved grief situation. I had somebody in
my life that just jumped I say, in my life.
But and I'm not going to reveal it. I'm not
going to reveal it yet reveal I can't even speak
reveal it yet. Want to tell the story. Breathe elf, breathe, Yeah,
(01:56):
I want to actually unveil the story. And I think
part of what has been keeping me up was I
believe this person contacted me the other night. But I've
been wanting, I've been, I've been, I think, dealing with it,
this this unresolved thing in my life, and I wanted
to share it because I've made I think I've made
(02:17):
a promise to everybody if I didn't say it this way,
is you know, to be as transparent as I can
be vulnerable. I really believe I think everybody's probably learned
this at least once. Is because I think we learned
from other people's stories. And I just I think this
is a doozy and I can't possibly be the only
(02:37):
one that has that is dealing with it, will deal
with it, or will ever deal with it. So I
just want to share the story and and hopefully I
can sleep tonight, So I'm gonna use y'all to sleep.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Is there anything before you get started? Is there anything
specific that you would like from me to hold the
space for you? Because it sounds like it comes from
a deep space.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
We'll find out it does come from you know what.
We're just gonna So just so y'all know, Brenda doesn't know. Shit,
I didn't you like the pause in between Brenna doesn't
know and then the pause and shit. But I actually said,
I go, I need. I feel like this is important.
It's definitely important to me, I hope will be important
to other people. And I actually want you to experience
(03:23):
the unfolding of it so you know where to come in. Okay,
So yeah, of course you will. I mean you're Brenda,
for the love of God. Okay. So I'm going to
start with the story, and I'm going to start in
nineteen seventy six, okay, as everything like that wasn't that
by centennial centennial? So in nineteen seventy six, I was
(03:45):
seven years old, and I remember the day that mom
came home, Margaret came home and she goes, I got
you something, and she got me a seven iron a No.
Nine iron, a seven iron, and a five iron, and
she took me out to the driving range at our
(04:05):
little crappy country club in my Oklahoma, and she had
a bucket of range balls what they're called, and she
sitt here, no instruction, no nothing. So I picked up
the club. I held it like a baseball bat because
I had I mean, I had no instruction. I just
held the thing. The first time I swung and hit
a ball, it went high in the air and far
(04:29):
it was. I had a gift that was I was
born with. I had this incredible hand eye coordination. Mom
later in life used to say, give the kid a
stick and a ball, and she can play anything. And
that was the beginning of what became an early career
(04:49):
in golf for me. By the time I was nine
years old, I was beating about ninety five percent of
the people at the country club. Yeah. When I was ten,
I won my first state championship in Oklahoma in the
nine holers group because they have nine holes in eighteen
(05:11):
holes for those that don't play. And so the first
year I played, I won at Southern Hills Country Club
u Tulsa, Oklahoma. When I was eleven, I won again
when I was twelve, I went up to the big
girls group and the eighteen holers and I was actually
runner up in the state and still hold a record
(05:32):
for being the youngest to ever achieve that.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So at twelve, you were playing eighteen holes in competition. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
After that, I was competing nationally. I think by the
time I was a senior in high school, I was
ranked in the top ten in the country, being recruited
by different colleges to play golf, all the while, uh
(06:03):
not really enjoying the game. Just to be really frank
about it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
What what kept you playing?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
So what kept me playing was most people know about
my not so fabulous on the Virgius super tragic childhood
with the stepfather. It was I got out of the house,
which was big bonus, and I had it was like
many famous in a small shitty town, you know. I
(06:36):
was Julie the golfers, really great at something. It started
to grow a little bit more. It was it was
I was adored. I was admired ways I didn't feel
when I was in mom's presence. Yeah, A mom was different,
Like it's you know, it's that whole weird household thing
of one side of the house was like heaven. The
(06:56):
other side was hell, you know, So it was there
was a way to escape my life, I think, you know,
But honestly, I never liked it. But I was really
good at it, which is a really weird thing, just
for the record, like to be really good at something
but to really not give a shit about it. And
also the worst part of it, well know, there's a
lot of worse parts of it, but a really bad
(07:17):
part of it is I was good without practicing, and
everybody knew I didn't practice, and so the other girls
or boys that I would play against were so frustrated
because I didn't try. You know. I'd go out and
practice a little bit, and the thing is I was good.
It's like kind of I mean, imagine if I focused
and gave a shit the only thing that I truly loved,
(07:44):
and it wasn't even me what I truly loved. And
I remember my mom doing this at a golf course
called Cedar Springs, I think it was Theater something and Tulsa,
and it was she would follow me, she would like
hide in the rough behind trees because she just wanted
to watch me play. And the joy I got was
(08:05):
the joy I saw on her face. That was truly
the joy that I had. Did she play, Oh my god, yes,
she was terrible. She made me hit her ball, and
I remember one time she made me play with her
and I hit all of them. I mean, like I
she would hit from where I'd hit her ball. And
one time she got so pissed off because she hit
her ball in the sand trap. She got in there,
(08:25):
couldn't get out of the sandtrap, and she's yelling, God,
damn it, and she leans down, picks up the ball
and tosses it up on the green and I fell
over laughing for just how frustrated she was. But yeah, no,
she was not that good of a My mom wasn't.
She was a swimmer, she wasn't a golfer. Okay, she
did it for fun, you know. But yeah, so she
(08:47):
had a kid that was really good at this shit,
like I. You know, I remember being in my early
teens and I would go play by myself, you know,
just go out and play around, and I would hear
guys that were very intimidated. Some guys were great because
they thought it was cute. A girl was good, right, Yeah,
(09:07):
that's not really great. It was just condescending. Then there
were ones who were actually horrified, and then they would
say things like, well, she gets to play from the
red tea. So in golf, there are three teas. There's
the and when I play, there were the red tees.
The white teas were the men's teas, which were further
back made the whole longer. And then behind that was
(09:28):
the championship teas, and those were the blue teas. So
just to fuck with them all, I would play from
the blue teas them not exaggerating, I mean, I don't
roll on. It was just what my world. What my
world was. So so then came college recruitment, and I
(09:50):
wanted to take a break because I want to come
back because this is a good time to hit part
two of this story.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Okay, we'll be right back and welcome back to next
the cliffhanger. Here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
For being unresolved.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
For being unresolved, here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So yeah, so college of recruitment came up and I
was for I was supposed to go to Georgia University
of Georgia. I was going to be a Georgia Bulldog.
At the time, Georgia was ranked second in the country.
They were ranked behind University of Tulsa and UH. In
(10:35):
college athletics, they only have a set amount of scholarships,
and I think maybe golf usually had between like six
full scholarships and sometimes they would split them and do whatever.
In the scholarship I was supposed to get at Georgia
was actually held by a young woman who ended up
red shirting. In red shirting, is you kind of sit
(10:58):
out the year so you could keep your skull Like
what happens is most at most college athletes cannot make
it through a university in four years.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
It is. It's a lot to be a taxing athlete.
It is very tax It's you don't have hardly a
minute to yourself. So the one I was supposed to
actually get this from ended up red shirting kind of late,
so the coach had to pull it from me. And yeah,
(11:29):
I was, as you can imagine, devastated. I mean, I've
always been quite sensitive, let's be honest. I mean it's
not something that came up later in life. It's something
that came.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Up to birth.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Before that, from the get go, from the tike go,
being kind of sensitive, and I was pretty despondent, like
for a couple of days, I was just distant to
really do anything, and my mom said to me, she said, well, honey,
what do you want to do? And I said, you know,
I've been recruited by Oklahoma. I might as well's just
go there. Like it was. It was that that level
(12:03):
of excitement. Yeah, and I'm being totally truthful, Like my
level excitement was very low.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's not what I wanted. Yeah, it's despondent, right, it was.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I was desponded. So I made it just really, this
is interesting. So the decision I made. You're going to
find out how that paid off here in a minute.
So I ended up getting scholarship to Oklahoma, lived in
the jock dorms. My college roommate named Cindy was fantastic.
(12:35):
Our coach was. I say it was because now we're
headed to part of the What's end resolved. Her name
was Carol Ludvigsen, who just jumped last week. And so
I played on the team for two years, so in
nineteen we started in nineteen seventy six. Now we're going
(12:57):
to fast forward to nineteen eighty nine. So I was
nineteen two months shy of twenty. My frontal cortex was
not fully formed, just to remind everybody. And somehow my
mother let me take an internship in Chicago, Oh mercy,
(13:19):
and let me drive there by myself, oh, as a
nineteen year old, right on the verge of twenty March. No,
it was all fine. I mean I made everything was fine.
But while I was driving and by myself, I had
my ship packed in my little Mazda six two six
that was silver. And it's weird the things you remember
(13:44):
when you're up at three am thinking about all these
fine details. But I remember driving, and it was kind
of late in the evening. I think it was late,
like two am, but it was late in the evening.
And my whole life, I've been a fan of three artists,
Neil Diamond and Murray and Barry Maneloe because that's what
my mother listens to. And still to this day, I
(14:05):
love all three and for all of our Canadian listeners
and the Canadian I'm with I'm with you to boot.
So on this drive, I had a cassette tape also
signifies the era. Also the era I had this cassette
tape and no cell phone, so just clear that up.
(14:29):
I was listening to this Barry Manlow Greatest Hits, and
this song came up and it was I made it
through the Rain. I won't bother everybody, but he could
listen to it later if you care to. While that
song is playing, I start thinking about I don't want
to play golf anymore. Oh yeah. And so I'm listening
(14:50):
to Barry saying I made it through the rain. Couldn't
stop it. I had to do it, y'all. And and
as I'm listening to this song, I make a decision
that I'm going to quit the golf team.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, So I just want to back up from it.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, back up.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So obviously, when we're driving alone, we have a lot
of time. You know that we can't distract ourselves because
we're driving, so that can be helpful. Plus you have
music hitting the emotional field, right, But you had been
aware of this thought, like I don't love golf. But
did you know that I don't want to play anymore?
(15:27):
Did you? Were you conscious of that before you got.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
In the car?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Okay, now that's what that's what it feels.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But insight, it's a little obvious though it also shows
you frontal cortex. The cortex thing, is it wasn't really
like clicking. Because I took an internship at an ad
agency in Chicago. I did not plan to spend my
summer playing in tournaments and practicing golf. So let's just
be real clear, like there were signs, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, but also just because you're taking an internship in
Chicago doesn't isn't overtly saying I'm not going to golf
this summer. Did you not pack your clubs?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Fuck? No, I didn't pack my clubs. Okay, No, didn't
take them with me? Nothing?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Oh okay, Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Now, so obviously I and I think a lot of
my well i'll get to the I'll get to in
the second. And so, so I made this decision. I've
never felt this feeling. I never felt what I'm about
to describe prior to this moment, and I've never felt
it after. So when I'm driving me and Barry, so
(16:30):
I he shot done, and I made and I made
like it was like the final decision. I'm like, I
don't want to do this anymore. I want an education,
is really what it was like. I want an education,
and I'll give it them more than yourself. A second,
but the most powerful thing. I physically felt chains being
(16:52):
lifted off my neck and shoulders. I felt them, I
felt weight and it was chained.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Awesome, right, So I so I knew that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Was my sign. Yeah, wow, doing the right thing.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, I didn't know. I was so constrained by this right,
so blesant to buy it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, I was like imprisoned by something. I was awesome
at weird, right, but.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
It's so, it's so amazing because the body always knows.
The body knows, the body knows.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So now remember, no cell phone, I can't talk to anybody. Yeah,
it's only me and Barry. Still, I make it to
Chicago and Anne and Neil and I know. But it
was Barry who was like, he was my man help keeper.
He was my he's also my gay keeper. So so
(17:45):
I get to Chicago. I pulled into the place that
Mom had set up this rent, like for me to rent. Okay,
so here's what I thought. I was like, I don't
know what I thought was good I was walking into,
but I pretty much think I rent. I got a
room in a halfway house. You weren't allowed to stay
there more than three months, and they provided breakfast and dinner,
and you had a room and he had to share
(18:06):
a bathroom on the floor. So I think I stayed
in a half way house when I interned in Chicago.
Just f y everybody, Oh my god. So but here's
what's funny. I had a great time. I made it great.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Of course he did.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
So they had a payphone, so I got a pay
phone in the hall, Yeah they did. It was a payphone.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Didn't everyone else there have ankle bracelets?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So I mean, right, I mean it kind of seems
like I was. I think I was in a half
way house and he was like five hundred bucks a month,
and back in that was a lot. Yeah, but no,
well it was five hundred buck. My rent in Dallas
was one hundred and forty.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So so.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I'm in the halfway house. But they fed me twice
a day, and uh that not unpacked my stuff. And
the first thing I did was I went to a payphone.
I called my mom and I'm like, Mom, I don't
think I want to play golf anymore. Said in fact,
it's not just I think I don't want to. And
I wasn't terrified to tell her because that's wasn't the
relationship that we had. And she goes baby I will
support you. I you know, tell me more. And I said,
(19:11):
you know, Mom, I I I think I realized something
was off when I took this episode. By the way,
Micah cut along, y'all, so get comfy. So I told her.
I said, when I took the entrance exam to get
into the journalism school at University of Oklahoma, it was
very rare for people to pass the first time. And
(19:32):
I actually passed the first time, and I was accepted
to the j school. And I remember seeing my name
is back in the days again, pre computer, pre all
this shit, right like dark ages, they would they would
post they would post it on the glass wall or
glass yeah and so, and my name was on it
that I passed. And I remember walking out of there
(19:55):
and I swear I floated down the stairs or ind
and I felt like I jumped like Mary Tyler Moore.
And I told Mom, I said, I have never felt
that way about golf. Oh, in fact, I'll say about anything. Yeah,
I never felt it. And i've and I had had
(20:16):
a hole in one and didn't give a shit. I
literally had a hole in one and I kind of didn't
give a shit.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You had a hole in one before you were twenty yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Oh yeah, yeah. I was fifty playing at an AJJ
tournament in uh like Lake Tahoe, uh in front of
a guy named Phil Mickelson for anybody who follows golf,
who was one of the most famous male professional golfers.
Didn't give a shit. I mean, I just literally didn't
give a shit. So I told her. And so when
(20:47):
I told her the story, right, I told you working,
you didn't know any of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I did not know any of that.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, and here's the thing nobody did until today. I
never talked about this. No, I've never talked about this.
This has been this like kind of deep seated thing
and like it's ps it's going to get way worse
here in a minute. So so I told mom about it. Shees, honey,
I understand, she said, no, I'm going to tell you.
(21:15):
I go. What's that? She says, this is your decision.
You're an adult, and you need to go take care
of it. You need to call coach. I said, okay,
because she also raised me that way. She raised me
to make your decisions and live with them, deal with
the bad ones, celebrate the good ones, but you take
care of your own stuff. I really didn't want her
(21:36):
to say that because I wanted her to call coach
for me. Secretly, I'm just gonna let y'all know I
wanted my mama to like step in and rescue me.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, knew that was not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
No, it wasn't going to happen. It was not Margaret.
So I called Carol and told her I didn't want
to play anymore. I vaguely remember the conversation. I remember
we were both crying on the phone. I'm pretty much.
I'm pretty sure. I think the overall message that I
gave was it's not you, it's me. It's also true
(22:11):
breaking up. I mean it kind of in a way.
So you know that was was rough and emotional and
all of those things. And so I ended up transferring
to SMU, but I had to spend one more semester
at University of Oklahoma because I had decided this big
(22:32):
decision was too late to get into SMU and in
the fall. Okay, so I embarked on probably the loneliest
time I've ever had in my life. I ended up
getting an apartment that was out off campus.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
By your people.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, it was by myself because my world were the golfers,
the team, and the coach, and no one spoke to
me again except my friend Audra Mel's wife, Audra. They
all were done with me. I'm gon get into the
part here. Yeah right, uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
What the hell? That's awful we were. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I don't want to make excuses. I'm just going to
say this is what it was. I spent I mean
as the lonely at four months I've ever had in
my life. I remember being on campus and seeing my
freshman roommate and I saw her and I was getting
ready to like wave, and she turned over. She turned around,
she looked at me, she saw me, and then she
(23:36):
looked back and walked away. And I remember thinking, wow,
I bailed you out.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Of jail, and now I want to put you back in. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I bailed her now, I mean she she went to
still Water with her boyfriend on the football team, and
with a whole bunch of other football players, got hammered,
went to a kettle restaurant where they used to have
that all you can eat breakfast for four bucks, you
know buffet thing. It's very Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, you take your word for it, but still you
would think you would think on a team, you're building camaraderie,
you take care of each other.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Friendships, right, So so the things that would roll through
the things that roll through my head were things like
I abandoned them, which I can see that they would
feel that way. I also funny enough, because I quit
at the top of my game. For the record, I
quit after we played in Las Crusis, New Mexico, and
I think I shot par for the tournament.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
No, like I quit at like literally the height of
my game, and but it made room for other people
to go in and compete for that spot.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I mean I did hear some trash talk that happened
and things like that, but you know, it was a
really lonely time. So is this good for another break?
I do part three? Yeah, we'll do part three. Okay,
y'all hang with me, y'all. It'll be worth it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Okay, Going to resolve the unresolved? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Something? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
We'll we'll be right back and welcome back, okay, my ouf, Yes,
take us, take us with it. Yeah, where are we going?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I want to bring us home the dark Knight of
the Soul. Yeah, I'm going to bring us home, I
think is so, you know, here's this event in my
life that was, you know, pretty substantial. And I don't
even think at the time I knew exactly why I
(25:36):
didn't want to play anymore. I think I I think later,
when I would talk more to my mom about it,
I would tell her things like, you know, uh, I
use it as a crutch. I needed to grow up.
I needed to not be Julie the golfer anymore. Because
I did. I felt that's what I did with the sport.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So here's what.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Happened for the last fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, what's your stepfather still in the house at this now? No?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
No, no, no, no, no he no. I think I
was twelve when Mom booted him. Okay, well, okay, this
ship last. It still hangs around. You know, it's like
gonner rihea. It never goes away. So exactly what my
mother would say. By the way, people are like, what's
gone a rhea? Or she called the clap So yeah,
(26:29):
she called goner rihea, diarrhea, all these which called the
Ria sisters. She was a mother, a freak of awesome nature.
She was funny shoes funny. So I think I started
to understand more and I would express and I would
talk to her about it, and that I just I
(26:49):
didn't need it in my life. I needed just to
be who I was, whoever that may be. I wasn't
quite sure, you know, but I'm gonna fast forward to
let's call it fifteen years ago. We all have cell phones,
we have Facebook, you know, we have the interweb, we
have all these things. I ended up getting Carol's phone,
(27:11):
her cell phone number, and I would reach out for
fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
You were looking, you were looking for it.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
No, I actually got it from Audra like I had.
Audre gave me Carol's cell phone and I had I had.
She was on Facebook. I think, so I had ways
and I would constantly, consistently, if not twenty years, would
reach out. And I wasn't looking for anything in particular.
I think what I was really looking for was, I
(27:41):
don't know, to maybe apologize for how I handled it.
I'm not sure whether I needed to sit there and
listen to where I failed anybody for any reason? Did
I not communicate clearly? I was really open. I wanted
to clean it up. I wanted I wanted Carol to
(28:03):
know that for that part of my life, like everybody
was so incredibly important to me, and I just was
so sorry that it didn't extend beyond that, Like it
just felt so unfinished, you know, it was it was
it was like you know, baking a cake and it
comes out half bad or half caked. It's like it
(28:23):
wasn't done. I just needed to I needed to know,
so I needed to understand something I needed to And
I'm all willing to apologize. I'm all willing to do
any of those things. That's actually been a pretty consistent,
I think, part of a good chunk of my life.
And so I call and then I'd get a text
(28:43):
that says, oh really, because I was called Reager back
then too, Oh Reager, you know, sorry I missed you.
Call me in a few days. So this went on
for decades. I think I saw her on a zoom
call during COVID because there was this They were having
a zoom call with some old players them like my
(29:04):
generation and my old teammates were on there, and I
knew because Audra right. So Audra like kept me in
the loop on things and invited me to join this,
and I said, you know, I really would like for
you to ask if it's okay, because I don't want
to trigger anybody like I because I don't know. I'm
I'm here in the dark, right right. I see Carol,
(29:26):
and I'll see another teammate who also jumped not long
after that named Audrey, who was amazing and she had
cancer as well. That's Carol actually passed last week of cancer.
And it's sixty three. And I think Audrey, I know,
I think Audrey was in her mid fifties. And I
was able to tell Audrey at the time on that
call in front of everyone, how incredibly important she was.
(29:50):
She was like our grounding force. She was this you know,
very loving, supportive energy that she gave to everyone. So
I was able to at least tell her that. You know,
we've talked before, Brenda on air off air about when
people have come to us and shared their stories about
the impact that we had on them, and I always
(30:11):
want to give that back, you know. I always want
to tell people who have done that for me. And
maybe that's why I wanted to tell Carol. I don't
know what I wanted to tell her.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
But this is the first time you're able to speak
to her.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Correct, That's the first time I had spoken to her
in thirty two years, maybe after chasing her, trying to
resolve right, and I knew so I knew she was sick. Audra,
because I'm still close with Audra. She told me that,
(30:44):
you know, Caeren wasn't doing well. And then mel actually
called me when I was in Los Angeles last week
to tell me that Carol had passed. And I haven't
slept great since then. In fact, the other night, when
I actually did get some I swear to you, she
came to me. I can't remember exactly what was said,
(31:06):
but I swear she came to me. Didn't feel resolved,
you know, I because I still I'm still dealing with
the unresolved nature. And I don't know if it's just
her I'm unresolved about, or if it's the whole experience,
the larger group, the whole thing it was. Even though
it was my choice and I recognize that and I
(31:27):
and I made the right shore. I don't regret my
choice whatsoever. Oh my god, No, no, like zero regret
with that.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
She she just loved you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Is that why.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
She just loved you so much? And she felt one
she didn't want to lose you. Obviously, she because because
she felt like golf actually had more to give to you.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, but she's fair, that's fair, right.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Yeah, she actually loved the game. She knew what you
did for the team, she knew what golf did you
know to get you to school. But she actually thought
golf could help you connecting with more of your own
power right now, just between you and golf, and she
(32:26):
didn't get a chance to do that. So she felt
like she failed you. And the fact that you had
a whole trajectory for a vision for your whole life
that she wasn't even aware of. She felt like she
failed you because while she loved the game and she
wanted to give that talk to the team, to every girl,
(32:49):
every young woman who was there, she felt like she
missed this from you. So she felt like a terrible
coach because she knew, she knew how to how to
navigate some other of the young women. You know, away
from golf.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
There were some really players that thought they were done.
I mean, she was way nicer than that. But she's
totally right about that.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, but she she didn't realize that you had this
other vision and we're perfectly suited for She never doubted
your intelligence or your gifts and how fast your mind moved.
But she she didn't see that. She was blind and
so she felt insecure and in sufficient for you, and
(33:35):
so it blindsided her in a way that she had
so much shame. Fuck, that's why she couldn't take your call,
not because she didn't love you, for the opposite reason.
She had so much shame that she had had had
failed you.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wow. Right, So y'all, this is an unresolved exactly why
I needed to talk about it today.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
She loves you so much, she's in awe of you.
She watched your whole career.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
On the innerweb machine.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
In those shame no, no, but just the fact that.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
She couldn't receive you, Okay, I try?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Or did I try?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I tried, and it was her insecurity, right, it was
her insecurity and shame.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
So she did come to me the other night. Huh. Yeah,
I knew she did. She knows something staying up thinking
about this for nights.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Says you are always sensitive.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
We all knew that. No mystery there. No.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, she's laughing when she says you can sleep now,
Thank you were good. I died that she needed it too.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Carrying this around for a long time.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
I did try.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
She's so sorry that she put you through that. That's
not what she intended. She wasn't aware. She wasn't aware.
She thought she was the only one in pain about it.
You had nothing to be ashamed of. You were doing
exactly what students are supposed to do, find themselves, and
you did better than most. Okay, you did it better
(35:59):
than most, like you do everything else.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
In my When I thought she visited me, I could
have sworn I reminded her to go hang out with mom.
Did she happen to do that? She loved my mother,
and my mother loved her.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Told her to say, hey, it hasn't happened yet, she's
not been there that long. No, but she's on the list.
She's on the list.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
My mother loved her. She used to talk about me
behind my back and it didn't bother me. She would
like reach out to my mom and talk to mom,
and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Okay, yeah, they needed that. They both loved you. That
was what they hadn't come, and it was me. Yeah right, yeah, yeah,
they'd love for you. That's what they hadn't come, and
that's what they celebrated. Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Not what I expected. Never is yeah, right, yeah, it
never is. Wow. Well, everybody welcome for this joyous fucking episode.
M But I think that.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
You can let it go. You can let it go,
she says, you can let it go. Well, I will
see you again. And she had a beautiful life plan
for you, she knows it. But you would not have
had had to work so hard if only you loved golf.
(37:34):
The fact that you didn't kind of got in the way,
I know, she said. But the thing is, you not
being attached to the game helped you play with freedom.
So it never looked like you were suffering. You played
with such freedom. But that's what we all longed for. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
She used to bitch at me for not wearing socks.
By the way, I've hated socks my whole life. She
may be playing this sleek one time, and I wouldn't
wear socks like the things that I remember. It was such.
I mean, the thing is, it's like you look at
different times of your life and everything has different levels
of power, and to it right that time that was
(38:18):
held a lot of power. If I'm sitting here at
fifty four going on fifty five, right, I just talked
about from nineteen going on twenty and the power it
holds from night kin going on twenty to fifty four
going on fifty five is a lot. Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's a lot. And without this tension in this decision,
you wouldn't have you wouldn't have developed the resolve and
the resilience to tackle what you tackled in life. Right.
(38:58):
This served you. I see that it didn't wound you
in a way that was damaging. It created a wound
for you to recover from. Right. Like when you break
a bone and then the bone heels, it's stronger in
that place than the rest of the bone because of
the cartilage laid down. That's that's how it served you.
(39:21):
This was not a mistake, This was not an error
in your life. This was part of your path for
your strength and for your resilience. Think of the fights
that you had to fight right because you knew it
was right and you stood up and it exhausted you sometimes,
but you had that inner strength because of the decisions
like this that you made when you were twenty that
(39:42):
you made. I think that was my correction.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Nineteen going on twenty. I'm an August baby. And so
is Carol.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
And I remember her birthday, Augustabeth Leo to Leo.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Isn't that funny? But like, I can't remember so many
people's birthdays, but I remember hers. But you know what,
It's true. It was actually the first time I've ever
made a really hard decision.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Mm hmm, she's right.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, should we rename this podcast resolved? I'm not sure?
Now I knew, I didn't. I knew. I didn't want
to tell you about any of it ahead of time. Yeah,
so you were with me the whole way.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I was with you the whole way. Didn't you did
not know where it was going. And there's one other thing, Yeah,
she wanted to know. She wants you to know it
was only out of sheer love and admiration for you
that she did not ever approach you as a student
(40:50):
to come back. She wanted to do that.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So many time, so for me to come back to OU.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
She'd come back to the to the to the t
even if like, even if you didn't come back to play,
but to heal. And she said she felt like it
would have been disrespectful of your decision. And it was
one of the hardest things she's ever done. Wow, to
not reach out to you for years, for years, this
(41:24):
was hard for her.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Well, we sure did break each other's hard, didn't we?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Out of love and stubbornness and fear.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Wait? Was I the stubborn one in the scenario? I
have to sit up for this answer.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I don't think so. I think the stubbornness and the fear,
especially when you reached out to her so many times,
that was all on her. It was shame. It was shame.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Wow. Okay, Well, this has probably been the longest episode
we've ever had. And thank you. I thank you Carol,
and certainly thank you my Witchiboo of course. And I
hope those who have been able to make it through
this because I barely did myself, that you kind of
(42:38):
look at your own life and you look at these
situations and learn from them. Sometimes it's a little late.
I think. Know a few things is that if you
can resolve, make an effort. If you can't, it eventually
will be I guess I am not sure exactly what
else to say.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
If you can't. If you can't resolve, if you don't
have direct actus access through your own dreams and meditation
or mediumship, just choose.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Lovey that's best advice ever.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
And I want to thank everyone for listening and remember
that our school is hard, so very hard sometimes, and
it is never without the presence and love and support
of the other side. Thanks for listening, everybody, Thank you
(43:41):
for joining us, everyone, and a special thanks to our
producer Joey Patt and our executive producer Maya Cole Howard,
who guides us while we guide.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
You hit us up on Instagram at other Side Guides,
or shoot us a note at high Hi at vibes
dot store.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
We want to know what you think, we want to
know what you know, and we want to hear your stories.
And remember, our school is hard.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Without the other Side. Insider's Guide to the Other Side
is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
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