June 11, 2025 • 20 mins
He criticized Trump on a Saturday night. He was out of a job by Wednesday morning. But, should longtime ABC News correspondent Terry Moran have been let go by the network for speaking his mind? Amy and T. J. don't see eye-to-eye about the fate of their former colleague.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, there are folks in this episode, he criticized President
Trump on a Saturday night and he was out of
a job by Wednesday morning. And with that, welcome to
this bonus episode of Amy and TJ. In this episode,
now we'll discussed what many of you already heard. Longtime
ABC News corresponding Terry Moran was initially suspended and then
(00:24):
eventually they said just today, just hours I guess prior
to this recording that he in fact is not going
to be returning to the network. We'll get into some
of the details, but Robes, initially, let me get your reaction.
I probably know it. As soon as we heard he
was suspended. We had our thoughts. But your reaction now
to just two three days after that tweet where it
(00:46):
is Terry Moran is not returning DABC News.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yes, well, I am not surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
As soon as we heard that he had been suspended
and we read what his actual original tweet was, you
and I both knew he was never going to come
back to ABC News. There was no way that a
network news division that certainly, as we hope all media
outlets rely on at.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Least a.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Credibility and an attempt at being not taking sides.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It certainly is.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Objectivity is core to being a professional journalist and core
to being a part of a network news organization. What
we cover, when we cover it, you know, how we
even cover things can certainly be.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Up for debate.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
But you know, no matter what, you cannot make a
public critical comment about a politician, about someone who you
are supposed to remain objective about so that people at
home can decide what they think. This was a clear, obvious,
big no no that I have never actually really seen
anything similar.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
To okay, So I think neither or neither of us
surprised by it. Even the timing surprise you initial suspension
and then here we are just really three days later.
That seems swift enough to me. It seemed like I
give him enough time to dot some eyes, cross some
te's and make sure everything was cool. But the timing,
There's nothing about this whole story that surprises me. I'm
(02:14):
trying to find something in there that I go home,
wait a minute, or this or that, But just what
he did and what they did in response is it's
tough to find issue with. I.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yes, my only surprise would be that it took them
three days, because there was really nothing to.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Work through or work out.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
He wrote what he wrote, and I really couldn't And
I don't think you could think of a reason why
he could defend what he did or said.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Obviously I can think of a reason, because you know,
I say that with a smile, because I'm always anytime
I hear someone say, wait, let me hear all the
details first, let me hear what was on their mind,
let me hear what was going on, they would only
come out as excuses. They would only be received that way.
But this is the guy who's been in the business
a long long time, just twenty eight years at ABC alone.
(03:02):
He's and he's covered. He covers big stuff. He didn't
run around and cover the NBA finals.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
The Preme Court of the foreign news, the Pope.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay, he covers the Vatican stuff like.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That, important heavy political stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So him tweeting at midnight, him tweeting when he did,
and what he he knows better than what he did.
So my only thing he had to be out of
his right, out of his mind, or he just said
the hell with it and I just don't give a
damn anymore and decided to do it. But he knows
better than what he did.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Look, this wasn't a slip of the tongue.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
This wasn't accidentally editorializing when you're on live television and
something slipped out. This was a deliberate, handwritten thought that
you chose to disseminate in a very public forum.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So it's done long, quick, quip correct, And so it was.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Even though there definitely were some grammatical errors, that isn't
typical of Terry Moran, who again is a consummate professional
and has been an incredible journalist, so he that isn't
in character for him. So the only reason that I
believe you and I could come up with that he
did what he did was either a substance abuse problem
or a mental health problem.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And either one of.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Those two things, I imagine you could take to ABC
News and say, I need help, I need to recover,
I want to apologize, I need to get my head
on straight. And that would be the only way that
I could have envisioned ABC News standing by him, or
at least seeing him through getting through a tough time
in his life.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And we are not, to be clear, suggesting anything of
the sol interesting in that no issue, nobody suggested, and
we're not that either, And just what we know of
this guy for so long, you're looking for a reason
for why he did what he did. And the journalist
we know knows better than to do what he did,
So why did he do it? We're looking for that
(05:00):
answer and we don't have that yet from him. I
don't think there's a single comment from him publicly. But
why did he do it? In the timing of it?
And you talk about I mean, having some people just
made mistakes just it's late, they're exhausted, a couple of
glasses of wine and screwed up.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But this was just but this was yes, and it
could be, but this was just so deliberate. And then
when we found out today that it turns out ABC
News didn't actually even have to fire Terry Moran because
his contract is up at the end of this week.
The timing of when he put out the tweet and
the fact that this was potentially his last week the
network seems perhaps that he could have The other thing
(05:39):
is he could have done this to go out with
a blazers of glory that he wanted to say what
had been on his mind for a long time. He
knew perhaps after he had left the network, it might
not get as much attention and maybe he knew. Hey,
while I'm still working with ABC News, I'm going to
go ahead and say what I've wanted to say for
the last four or five months.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And two for those that don't know, you have up
in front of you. Yes, I is okay, go ahead
and read exactly what he said. I think the grammatical
errors are in there as well, but yes, this is
exactly what Terry Moran wrote at twelve eight a m.
Saturday night, So into Sunday is what we're talking about.
This is what you wrote.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yes, and I'm reading this verbatim. Grammatical mistakes and all.
Miller is a man who was richly endowed with the
capacity for hatred. He's a world class hater. You can
see this just by looking at him, because you can
see that his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He eats his hate.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Trump is a world class hater, but his hatred is
Sorry I started, I tried to correct his grammatical error,
but his hatred only a means to an end, and
that end his own glorification. That's his spiritual nourishment. And
we should point out that Terry Moran is referring to
(06:57):
Stephen Miller, who is the deputy chief of staff President Trump.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
See, yeah, and this is personal, I would even and
and I hope this doesn't. It has a little bit
delve into a back and forth, a conversation left and
right about media bias. And there's some defending Terry Moran say, hey,
why are you going to suspend or punish him for
speaking truth to power, for speaking up for free speech.
(07:22):
Shouldn't he be allowed to say what he wants to say?
This is not a left right situation. This is just
everything turns into that. But it's not that. This is
about the fundamentals of basic journalism. This, sweetheart, did we
get out of the first week of journalism class without
them teaching you about objectivity? Point blank? You can never
(07:43):
go back and cover the White House again after this?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
No, you have to. Can't you learn?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think one of the first things you learn is
do you take your personal opinions and your personal bias
and what you think and what you were raised to believe,
and you hang that on the code hanger along with
your jacket, and you can pick it back up when
you leave the newsroom. But one while you're in the newsroom,
you were one of your most important jobs is to
be objective. You should tell the truth, and you need
(08:08):
to say it without bias. You should let the people
at home decide what they think based on the facts
that you can provide them.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And that's a period.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
They're arguing now that Okay, he left the newsroom, he
was done with his job for the day. Why can't he,
as a private citizen now go say whatever the hell
he wants and why should he be punished for exercising
a free speech right. That is not the debate here, folks.
This is journalism. This is a high level journal list.
(08:40):
We all know. So we are just on the Gavin
Rossdale came into our studio. We did an interview, right
imagine two days before I did that, I just got
on Twitter and said, Gavin Rossdale is an idiot. I
hate his hair, his music is stupid. Yeah, okay, is
he going to come in and do an interview with me?
Absolutely no, you don't. You just can't do what he
(09:00):
did and still be claimed to be objective. And this
wasn't about policy. This was personal. He's a hater. He's
nourished by his hate.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
He eats his hate.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Come on.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
That's that's throwing a massive barb at somebody, and it
is I think that's a good way to put it.
It's deeply personal. He wasn't discussing politics. He discussing discussing
their ethics, their morality, and he had issue with that,
and that's something you can't recover from. That's not something
that you can say, whoopsie or oopsie, I shouldn't have
done that, or I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
And that's not truth to power, right, it's not truth
to power. It's not correcting a politician who let out
of falsehood. That's objective. And your point is that you
don't like this guy. You think he's a hater. That's
not a fact.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That's a personal opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Personal opinion. So I think even if he had criticized
the administration in some way policy wise, maybe a suspension,
maybe he could come back from it. This was just
outright personal attack, personally attacking the why, and.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
In doing so, unfortunately, it fuels this narrative that every
journalist in mainstream media at the big networks all feel
the same way Terry Moran feels, and they're just hiding
it and pretending that they don't while they're on the job,
and yet they actually ask questions and go about their
(10:21):
job with that bias, with that hatred, with that personal
negative opinion about the people in power, and that's shaping
and affecting news coverage, and so that now of course
people are saying, see that he took his mask off,
this is the mask that all journalists are wearing at
the networks, and that's simply not true at all. So
it's unfortunate that now because of the decision of Terry,
(10:46):
a lot of other journalists are now being viewed through
that same lens.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And they have been for a while.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It's not like this is a new thing, but now
of course, but now it's like proof. Aha. See they
all think that. See they all act with that in
their minds as they report the news.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And that's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Well, it just feeds that storyline. And now now we're
helping it along, like we've you know that stuff y'all
just railed about and y'all suspicious of Boom. We just
gave you some evidence of it. Yes it's only one case,
but we give you evidence. Look, and people, everybody, no trust.
Every single journalist has an opinion. Every single journalist has
an opinion about Trump and policies and every other politician
(11:28):
you can think of, and everything going on in the world.
But the point is you're not supposed to let that
influence your work, So don't. We're not sitting here at
all thinking no journalists to have an opinion about something
in our personal lives, but you can't let that out,
and then you can't let it get into your work.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Every journalist is different, and I think you and I
are very similar, Babe. That when and I heard people
and it wasn't that often that people sometimes would express
their opinions, and I would actually say it was rare
in a new Zoom because it was understood you don't
discuss your personal opinions about specific politicians or their policies.
(12:15):
You can talk about how they handled it or perhaps
how we're covering it. But it was very rare, and
I always removed myself from any of that, and I.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Always try to.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
I really did try to put on blinders when it
came to reporting, especially when it comes to the Trump administration.
It is a very delicate dance. Everyone is dancing, truly
in the newsroom, trying not to express their opinion and
trying to remain objective. And there's been a big debate
with Trump because it's taken it to a whole other
(12:44):
level as he goes out and goes after the press,
and so it's already tricky. It's already a very troubled
relationship between mainstream media and the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I don't mind us having more scrutiny. I don't mind
somebody forcing us to check ourselves a little more. I
don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If it keeps
us from doing our job and has us running scared,
that's a different thing. Because it seems right now, yeah,
it's Trump to ABC News zero in his administration right now,
because he already wiped the floor with the whole George
(13:18):
Dephanopolis thing. Right, they already pay this due sixteen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And then look at what's happening over at CBS and.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, oh that he's still what he's holding them hostage
almost with them trying to do a sale of CBS.
At this point, he's still how much is that lossuit billions?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
It's billions. And now you have a major, seasoned, reputable
journalists and executives stepping down because they feel that there's
an overcorrection now over at CBS that they're trying so
hard not to upset Trump that they're avoiding or they're
absolutely changing how they would have normally covered stories.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So there are some points where you can already point
to and say networks are caving. He's just handing him
a win. This is too easy. He didn't have to
go search for this one. I mean, I can't even
Trump is right on this. It's hard to make any
argument that Trump did something wrong in this scenario. He
(14:14):
was attacked, his White House was attacked by a guy
who has been covering and yes, remember Tara Moran is
the guy who just interviewed and went in April on
his first one hundred days. Why Because ABC News is
really running out of people who can interview the President
of the United State.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
George Sephanoppolis cannot interview the president. Robin Roberts isn't going
to interview the president. And I don't know how they
would feel about having her, because I just think that
they are looking at certain journalists as oh, okay, well she
interviewed Barack Obama, so we're not going to have her
interview President Trump. They're very picky as well as to
who they would choose. They went out, They went after
David Mure because of how they felt he handled along
(14:54):
with Lindsay Davis, who would be another one possible, how
they handled the debate. So he was upset with them.
So that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That's why it fell to Terry Moran. He was the
one that the White House picked. They gave him a hey,
which one of these for the interview? He picked Moran.
He told Moran during the interview, I picked you because
I never heard of you. So he was almost saying,
congratulations on this opportunity. I'm giving you.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Correct one hundred percent. That's what he did.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
They're running out of people who can interview the President
of the United.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
States now, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And it really is puzzling to me because Terry, look, look,
anyone who's had a long career, and he certainly has.
He sixty five years old, has had a long and
storied career, twenty eight years at ABC News alone, and
you have ups and downs in your career. And he
at one point was visible all the time covering the
White House, the Supreme Court, he went over to the
London bureau and was a foreign correspondent, and then you know,
(15:42):
you start to go. You don't get on as much.
But there has been a recent resurgence in his career
where he yes, he got the Trump interview. They put
him out front and center in Rome to cover the Pope.
So his career seemed to be on the upswing.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Supreme Court and the election were two things they needed
his expertise. Car he's a veteran. Rome needed his expertise.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
He's a veteran, and so clearly with what's happening at
ABC News, you would think they'd hold on to someone
like that.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
His contract was coming up.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
That's why I can't get my head around that, because
you and I both know when your contract's coming up.
Six months before your contracts up, sometimes even a year
before your contracts up. If they want to keep you,
the network will come to you or to your agents
and try to work something out. A week before your
contract's up and you haven't worked anything out. That seems
a little suspect as well, but that is what ABC
(16:31):
News said that his contract was up on Friday, and
so this has certainly created a situation in which they
can officially say they will not be renewing his contract,
therefore they didn't have to fire him, and they didn't
have to actually do anything.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Well, was it. I'm looking at their statement here in
part of it says we have made the decision to
not renew, as if that decision had yet to be made,
or had they made the decision he was going to stay.
I don't think they were planning on getting rid of them,
it's the point.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Well, I wouldn't so either, But then it's curious to me,
because you and I. I guess I can only speak
for myself when several times in my career my contract
has come up and I wanted to stay. Anytime I
was on my not that I was ever on bad behavior,
but I was on my uber best behavior. I said
yes to everything. I jumped on every plane they asked
me to, because you know, if they're considering whether or
(17:21):
not they want to keep you, and they're considering how
much they would like to pay you, you usually put
your best foot forward in those months and weeks leading
up to your contract ending. So it seems extra suspect
that he would go on this rant and make this
choice given the timing of his contract.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
That's insane.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
To me, you described like an NFL player playing on
the last year of his contract and he has just
like a record year because what you want to happen,
So he might have Hey, maybe he just said to
hell with it, he's over it. He's sixty five, I'm
done with this anyway, and just let it go. We
don't know. Last thing for me to you is, do
you see any way he could have state? No.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
The only way he could have stayed is if there
was some sort of a mental health crisis of some
kind that he could say, Hey, I got to go
get help. I'm going to come back bigger and better
than ever. I'm gonna apologize. I'm going to talk about
what journalists should do and why I completely made the
wrong call. And perhaps in that context he could have stayed,
but it would have the bar would be really, really high.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
How about you.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I have to talk to him, I really would. These
are things that it's hard to just what's best for
the news organization is what I'm supposed to do. If
I was the head of ABC News, right, you got
to think about that first. But then you're a human being,
and we have learned so much more in the past
two three years of our lives, about human beings, about
mistakes that are made, about just listening, being compassionate. I
(18:46):
would like to hear and if he had a good
enough reason, I would force him to come out there,
get on screen, explain it to everybody. If it was
a health crisis, you have to explain it to everybody.
You're gonna have to call and get on the phone
to apologized, to Stephen Miller, to the White House Press Secretary,
to the President himself. You're going to come out and
do everything you can to say I'm sorry and that
(19:07):
you made a mistake, and here is why you made
the mistake. If that hurts your news organization, maybe, but
also sends a message something about forgiveness, something about mistake,
something in But if it's but I'd have to hear
his story. And if I didn't buy it and he
was just you know, popping off of the mouth and
not really apologetic, that would be different. But I just wonder,
(19:28):
and I just wish things like that didn't have to
be the end for people who have contributed so much
to an organization, to a field of journalism that one
tweet at midnight and it's over.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, that's sad.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
That's sad after a very long and storied and respectable
and impressive career. The Terry Moran that you and I
both know was passionate about journalism, passionate about the truth.
So we wish him well. We hope that he is
doing okay. This is not an easy time when the
world turns against you. We know what that feels like,
(20:03):
and we wish nothing but the best for him, and
we hope if he does choose to speak, he is
able to explain for folks to understand where he was
and why he did what he did.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But if he doesn't want to, that's okay as well,
that's okay as well.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So thank you for listening to us, and we hope
that we gave you a little bit more perspective about
what goes on behind the scenes in newsrooms and just
trying to figure out where this is headed and maybe
why we even got here. But hope that everyone just
gives folks a little bit of a break sometimes when
you hear the headlines
Hey, there are folks in this episode, he criticized President
Trump on a Saturday night and he was out of
a job by Wednesday morning. And with that, welcome to
this bonus episode of Amy and TJ. In this episode,
now we'll discussed what many of you already heard. Longtime
ABC News corresponding Terry Moran was initially suspended and then
(00:24):
eventually they said just today, just hours I guess prior
to this recording that he in fact is not going
to be returning to the network. We'll get into some
of the details, but Robes, initially, let me get your reaction.
I probably know it. As soon as we heard he
was suspended. We had our thoughts. But your reaction now
to just two three days after that tweet where it
(00:46):
is Terry Moran is not returning DABC News.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yes, well, I am not surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
As soon as we heard that he had been suspended
and we read what his actual original tweet was, you
and I both knew he was never going to come
back to ABC News. There was no way that a
network news division that certainly, as we hope all media
outlets rely on at.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Least a.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Credibility and an attempt at being not taking sides.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It certainly is.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Objectivity is core to being a professional journalist and core
to being a part of a network news organization. What
we cover, when we cover it, you know, how we
even cover things can certainly be.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Up for debate.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
But you know, no matter what, you cannot make a
public critical comment about a politician, about someone who you
are supposed to remain objective about so that people at
home can decide what they think. This was a clear, obvious,
big no no that I have never actually really seen
anything similar.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
To okay, So I think neither or neither of us
surprised by it. Even the timing surprise you initial suspension
and then here we are just really three days later.
That seems swift enough to me. It seemed like I
give him enough time to dot some eyes, cross some
te's and make sure everything was cool. But the timing,
There's nothing about this whole story that surprises me. I'm
(02:14):
trying to find something in there that I go home,
wait a minute, or this or that, But just what
he did and what they did in response is it's
tough to find issue with. I.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yes, my only surprise would be that it took them
three days, because there was really nothing to.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Work through or work out.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
He wrote what he wrote, and I really couldn't And
I don't think you could think of a reason why
he could defend what he did or said.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Obviously I can think of a reason, because you know,
I say that with a smile, because I'm always anytime
I hear someone say, wait, let me hear all the
details first, let me hear what was on their mind,
let me hear what was going on, they would only
come out as excuses. They would only be received that way.
But this is the guy who's been in the business
a long long time, just twenty eight years at ABC alone.
(03:02):
He's and he's covered. He covers big stuff. He didn't
run around and cover the NBA finals.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
The Preme Court of the foreign news, the Pope.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Okay, he covers the Vatican stuff like.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That, important heavy political stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So him tweeting at midnight, him tweeting when he did,
and what he he knows better than what he did.
So my only thing he had to be out of
his right, out of his mind, or he just said
the hell with it and I just don't give a
damn anymore and decided to do it. But he knows
better than what he did.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Look, this wasn't a slip of the tongue.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
This wasn't accidentally editorializing when you're on live television and
something slipped out. This was a deliberate, handwritten thought that
you chose to disseminate in a very public forum.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So it's done long, quick, quip correct, And so it was.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Even though there definitely were some grammatical errors, that isn't
typical of Terry Moran, who again is a consummate professional
and has been an incredible journalist, so he that isn't
in character for him. So the only reason that I
believe you and I could come up with that he
did what he did was either a substance abuse problem
or a mental health problem.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And either one of.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Those two things, I imagine you could take to ABC
News and say, I need help, I need to recover,
I want to apologize, I need to get my head
on straight. And that would be the only way that
I could have envisioned ABC News standing by him, or
at least seeing him through getting through a tough time
in his life.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And we are not, to be clear, suggesting anything of
the sol interesting in that no issue, nobody suggested, and
we're not that either, And just what we know of
this guy for so long, you're looking for a reason
for why he did what he did. And the journalist
we know knows better than to do what he did,
So why did he do it? We're looking for that
(05:00):
answer and we don't have that yet from him. I
don't think there's a single comment from him publicly. But
why did he do it? In the timing of it?
And you talk about I mean, having some people just
made mistakes just it's late, they're exhausted, a couple of
glasses of wine and screwed up.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But this was just but this was yes, and it
could be, but this was just so deliberate. And then
when we found out today that it turns out ABC
News didn't actually even have to fire Terry Moran because
his contract is up at the end of this week.
The timing of when he put out the tweet and
the fact that this was potentially his last week the
network seems perhaps that he could have The other thing
(05:39):
is he could have done this to go out with
a blazers of glory that he wanted to say what
had been on his mind for a long time. He
knew perhaps after he had left the network, it might
not get as much attention and maybe he knew. Hey,
while I'm still working with ABC News, I'm going to
go ahead and say what I've wanted to say for
the last four or five months.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And two for those that don't know, you have up
in front of you. Yes, I is okay, go ahead
and read exactly what he said. I think the grammatical
errors are in there as well, but yes, this is
exactly what Terry Moran wrote at twelve eight a m.
Saturday night, So into Sunday is what we're talking about.
This is what you wrote.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yes, and I'm reading this verbatim. Grammatical mistakes and all.
Miller is a man who was richly endowed with the
capacity for hatred. He's a world class hater. You can
see this just by looking at him, because you can
see that his hatreds are his spiritual nourishment.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
He eats his hate.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Trump is a world class hater, but his hatred is
Sorry I started, I tried to correct his grammatical error,
but his hatred only a means to an end, and
that end his own glorification. That's his spiritual nourishment. And
we should point out that Terry Moran is referring to
(06:57):
Stephen Miller, who is the deputy chief of staff President Trump.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
See, yeah, and this is personal, I would even and
and I hope this doesn't. It has a little bit
delve into a back and forth, a conversation left and
right about media bias. And there's some defending Terry Moran say, hey,
why are you going to suspend or punish him for
speaking truth to power, for speaking up for free speech.
(07:22):
Shouldn't he be allowed to say what he wants to say?
This is not a left right situation. This is just
everything turns into that. But it's not that. This is
about the fundamentals of basic journalism. This, sweetheart, did we
get out of the first week of journalism class without
them teaching you about objectivity? Point blank? You can never
(07:43):
go back and cover the White House again after this?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
No, you have to. Can't you learn?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I think one of the first things you learn is
do you take your personal opinions and your personal bias
and what you think and what you were raised to believe,
and you hang that on the code hanger along with
your jacket, and you can pick it back up when
you leave the newsroom. But one while you're in the newsroom,
you were one of your most important jobs is to
be objective. You should tell the truth, and you need
(08:08):
to say it without bias. You should let the people
at home decide what they think based on the facts
that you can provide them.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And that's a period.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
They're arguing now that Okay, he left the newsroom, he
was done with his job for the day. Why can't he,
as a private citizen now go say whatever the hell
he wants and why should he be punished for exercising
a free speech right. That is not the debate here, folks.
This is journalism. This is a high level journal list.
(08:40):
We all know. So we are just on the Gavin
Rossdale came into our studio. We did an interview, right
imagine two days before I did that, I just got
on Twitter and said, Gavin Rossdale is an idiot. I
hate his hair, his music is stupid. Yeah, okay, is
he going to come in and do an interview with me?
Absolutely no, you don't. You just can't do what he
(09:00):
did and still be claimed to be objective. And this
wasn't about policy. This was personal. He's a hater. He's
nourished by his hate.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
He eats his hate.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Come on.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
That's that's throwing a massive barb at somebody, and it
is I think that's a good way to put it.
It's deeply personal. He wasn't discussing politics. He discussing discussing
their ethics, their morality, and he had issue with that,
and that's something you can't recover from. That's not something
that you can say, whoopsie or oopsie, I shouldn't have
done that, or I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
And that's not truth to power, right, it's not truth
to power. It's not correcting a politician who let out
of falsehood. That's objective. And your point is that you
don't like this guy. You think he's a hater. That's
not a fact.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
That's a personal opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Personal opinion. So I think even if he had criticized
the administration in some way policy wise, maybe a suspension,
maybe he could come back from it. This was just
outright personal attack, personally attacking the why, and.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
In doing so, unfortunately, it fuels this narrative that every
journalist in mainstream media at the big networks all feel
the same way Terry Moran feels, and they're just hiding
it and pretending that they don't while they're on the job,
and yet they actually ask questions and go about their
(10:21):
job with that bias, with that hatred, with that personal
negative opinion about the people in power, and that's shaping
and affecting news coverage, and so that now of course
people are saying, see that he took his mask off,
this is the mask that all journalists are wearing at
the networks, and that's simply not true at all. So
it's unfortunate that now because of the decision of Terry,
(10:46):
a lot of other journalists are now being viewed through
that same lens.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And they have been for a while.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It's not like this is a new thing, but now
of course, but now it's like proof. Aha. See they
all think that. See they all act with that in
their minds as they report the news.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And that's unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Well, it just feeds that storyline. And now now we're
helping it along, like we've you know that stuff y'all
just railed about and y'all suspicious of Boom. We just
gave you some evidence of it. Yes it's only one case,
but we give you evidence. Look, and people, everybody, no trust.
Every single journalist has an opinion. Every single journalist has
an opinion about Trump and policies and every other politician
(11:28):
you can think of, and everything going on in the world.
But the point is you're not supposed to let that
influence your work, So don't. We're not sitting here at
all thinking no journalists to have an opinion about something
in our personal lives, but you can't let that out,
and then you can't let it get into your work.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Every journalist is different, and I think you and I
are very similar, Babe. That when and I heard people
and it wasn't that often that people sometimes would express
their opinions, and I would actually say it was rare
in a new Zoom because it was understood you don't
discuss your personal opinions about specific politicians or their policies.
(12:15):
You can talk about how they handled it or perhaps
how we're covering it. But it was very rare, and
I always removed myself from any of that, and I.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Always try to.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
I really did try to put on blinders when it
came to reporting, especially when it comes to the Trump administration.
It is a very delicate dance. Everyone is dancing, truly
in the newsroom, trying not to express their opinion and
trying to remain objective. And there's been a big debate
with Trump because it's taken it to a whole other
(12:44):
level as he goes out and goes after the press,
and so it's already tricky. It's already a very troubled
relationship between mainstream media and the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
I don't mind us having more scrutiny. I don't mind
somebody forcing us to check ourselves a little more. I
don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If it keeps
us from doing our job and has us running scared,
that's a different thing. Because it seems right now, yeah,
it's Trump to ABC News zero in his administration right now,
because he already wiped the floor with the whole George
(13:18):
Dephanopolis thing. Right, they already pay this due sixteen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And then look at what's happening over at CBS and.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, oh that he's still what he's holding them hostage
almost with them trying to do a sale of CBS.
At this point, he's still how much is that lossuit billions?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
It's billions. And now you have a major, seasoned, reputable
journalists and executives stepping down because they feel that there's
an overcorrection now over at CBS that they're trying so
hard not to upset Trump that they're avoiding or they're
absolutely changing how they would have normally covered stories.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So there are some points where you can already point
to and say networks are caving. He's just handing him
a win. This is too easy. He didn't have to
go search for this one. I mean, I can't even
Trump is right on this. It's hard to make any
argument that Trump did something wrong in this scenario. He
(14:14):
was attacked, his White House was attacked by a guy
who has been covering and yes, remember Tara Moran is
the guy who just interviewed and went in April on
his first one hundred days. Why Because ABC News is
really running out of people who can interview the President
of the United State.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
George Sephanoppolis cannot interview the president. Robin Roberts isn't going
to interview the president. And I don't know how they
would feel about having her, because I just think that
they are looking at certain journalists as oh, okay, well she
interviewed Barack Obama, so we're not going to have her
interview President Trump. They're very picky as well as to
who they would choose. They went out, They went after
David Mure because of how they felt he handled along
(14:54):
with Lindsay Davis, who would be another one possible, how
they handled the debate. So he was upset with them.
So that's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That's why it fell to Terry Moran. He was the
one that the White House picked. They gave him a hey,
which one of these for the interview? He picked Moran.
He told Moran during the interview, I picked you because
I never heard of you. So he was almost saying,
congratulations on this opportunity. I'm giving you.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Correct one hundred percent. That's what he did.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
They're running out of people who can interview the President
of the United.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
States now, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And it really is puzzling to me because Terry, look, look,
anyone who's had a long career, and he certainly has.
He sixty five years old, has had a long and
storied career, twenty eight years at ABC News alone, and
you have ups and downs in your career. And he
at one point was visible all the time covering the
White House, the Supreme Court, he went over to the
London bureau and was a foreign correspondent, and then you know,
(15:42):
you start to go. You don't get on as much.
But there has been a recent resurgence in his career
where he yes, he got the Trump interview. They put
him out front and center in Rome to cover the Pope.
So his career seemed to be on the upswing.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Supreme Court and the election were two things they needed
his expertise. Car he's a veteran. Rome needed his expertise.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
He's a veteran, and so clearly with what's happening at
ABC News, you would think they'd hold on to someone
like that.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
His contract was coming up.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
That's why I can't get my head around that, because
you and I both know when your contract's coming up.
Six months before your contracts up, sometimes even a year
before your contracts up. If they want to keep you,
the network will come to you or to your agents
and try to work something out. A week before your
contract's up and you haven't worked anything out. That seems
a little suspect as well, but that is what ABC
(16:31):
News said that his contract was up on Friday, and
so this has certainly created a situation in which they
can officially say they will not be renewing his contract,
therefore they didn't have to fire him, and they didn't
have to actually do anything.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Well, was it. I'm looking at their statement here in
part of it says we have made the decision to
not renew, as if that decision had yet to be made,
or had they made the decision he was going to stay.
I don't think they were planning on getting rid of them,
it's the point.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Well, I wouldn't so either, But then it's curious to me,
because you and I. I guess I can only speak
for myself when several times in my career my contract
has come up and I wanted to stay. Anytime I
was on my not that I was ever on bad behavior,
but I was on my uber best behavior. I said
yes to everything. I jumped on every plane they asked
me to, because you know, if they're considering whether or
(17:21):
not they want to keep you, and they're considering how
much they would like to pay you, you usually put
your best foot forward in those months and weeks leading
up to your contract ending. So it seems extra suspect
that he would go on this rant and make this
choice given the timing of his contract.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
That's insane.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
To me, you described like an NFL player playing on
the last year of his contract and he has just
like a record year because what you want to happen,
So he might have Hey, maybe he just said to
hell with it, he's over it. He's sixty five, I'm
done with this anyway, and just let it go. We
don't know. Last thing for me to you is, do
you see any way he could have state? No.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
The only way he could have stayed is if there
was some sort of a mental health crisis of some
kind that he could say, Hey, I got to go
get help. I'm going to come back bigger and better
than ever. I'm gonna apologize. I'm going to talk about
what journalists should do and why I completely made the
wrong call. And perhaps in that context he could have stayed,
but it would have the bar would be really, really high.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
How about you.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I have to talk to him, I really would. These
are things that it's hard to just what's best for
the news organization is what I'm supposed to do. If
I was the head of ABC News, right, you got
to think about that first. But then you're a human being,
and we have learned so much more in the past
two three years of our lives, about human beings, about
mistakes that are made, about just listening, being compassionate. I
(18:46):
would like to hear and if he had a good
enough reason, I would force him to come out there,
get on screen, explain it to everybody. If it was
a health crisis, you have to explain it to everybody.
You're gonna have to call and get on the phone
to apologized, to Stephen Miller, to the White House Press Secretary,
to the President himself. You're going to come out and
do everything you can to say I'm sorry and that
(19:07):
you made a mistake, and here is why you made
the mistake. If that hurts your news organization, maybe, but
also sends a message something about forgiveness, something about mistake,
something in But if it's but I'd have to hear
his story. And if I didn't buy it and he
was just you know, popping off of the mouth and
not really apologetic, that would be different. But I just wonder,
(19:28):
and I just wish things like that didn't have to
be the end for people who have contributed so much
to an organization, to a field of journalism that one
tweet at midnight and it's over.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, that's sad.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
That's sad after a very long and storied and respectable
and impressive career. The Terry Moran that you and I
both know was passionate about journalism, passionate about the truth.
So we wish him well. We hope that he is
doing okay. This is not an easy time when the
world turns against you. We know what that feels like,
(20:03):
and we wish nothing but the best for him, and
we hope if he does choose to speak, he is
able to explain for folks to understand where he was
and why he did what he did.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But if he doesn't want to, that's okay as well,
that's okay as well.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
So thank you for listening to us, and we hope
that we gave you a little bit more perspective about
what goes on behind the scenes in newsrooms and just
trying to figure out where this is headed and maybe
why we even got here. But hope that everyone just
gives folks a little bit of a break sometimes when
you hear the headlines
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