March 9, 2022 • 32 mins
Series star and Emmy-nominee Anna Chlumsky chats about what attracted her to this story, embodying journalist “Vivian Kent,” and her character’s evolution through the series.
Stacy and Anna break down key moments from the show and Anna shares why she’s always admired and been intimidated by the profession of journalism. Anna offers some powerful takeaways from the series from the perspective of her character, Vivian.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shonda
Land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to
Inventing Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the
making of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your
host Stacy Wilson Hunt, and today I'm going to dig
(00:21):
into some scenes with Emmy nominated actor Anna Klumsky, who
plays journalist Vivian Kent. In our chat, Anna reveals her
lifelong ambition to play a journalist and her approach to
bringing Vivian to life on screen. We also discussed some
of our favorite milestone Vivian moments and how she and
co star Julia Garner approached their final scene together. Welcome
(00:45):
Anna Clumsky. It's so nice to have you on our show.
How are you? Thank you. I'm well, I'm well. How
are you doing well? And it's hard for me to
not think of you every time I hear the name
Inventing Anna, because that is also your name. Also my name,
also Anna Davir Smith's name. Yes, yeah, there were a
lot of Anna's. I wondered about that on set if
there was some confusion. Oh yeah, all the time, all
(01:07):
the time. And then yeah, and we would always say,
just call us by our characters. Well you figured it out,
which is all that matters. Yeah, So before we talk
about inventing Anna, I was very intrigued and heartened to
hear about something you said recently, which is you had
always dreamed about playing a journalist and as a journalist.
I'm so happy that someone would dream about playing a
(01:27):
character like me and a show. You've also said that
you have been scared to ask people questions in your
life as Anna as an actor, and I'm curious walk
me through not only what has intrigued you about journalism,
but what is it about that job that scared you.
I mean, we could do, you know, several long therapy
sessions on why I you know, like why I have
(01:49):
basically like a big old censor on my own questioning.
I think, honestly to be succinct about it, I'm I'm
sort of a large talker. I don't do small talk.
I do large talk, and I you know, over the
last forty one year, I've discovered that sometimes people aren't
into that. Sometimes people really don't want to skip to
(02:12):
like their mom and they're like issues in their household.
They want to just talk about the weather, right, So
you're saying you prefer to get into existential angst and
not small talk essentially usually yes, yeah, almost as a rule,
I don't want to I don't want to hurt people
with my with my curiosity. There's so much of that
(02:35):
superficial banter that is kind of part of the job
at parties and gatherings. And I have felt that too,
where you just think, can we just get to the
good stuff? Right, Yeah, Yeah, that's one of That's one
one of the reasons I lived in your smart Smart
not to make generalizations, but let's generalize. Yeah, And but
then also yeah, so like I think I really started
(02:57):
to get into the idea of like, wow, what is
it what is it like to just have unbridled channel
from your own curiosity to the person that you're with,
Like Frank rich is a is a great journalist. Of
course you worked with him on Veep, yes, and so
he was a producer on Veep, and you know, we
would like go out with him and his wife, Alex Witchell,
(03:19):
and they would just they just had it all right there.
They just like everything. They were so curious about everything
around them, and they were so excited to know more,
and they would ask. They would just ask, and I thought, Oh, wow,
that's just amazing and delicious, and I am so interested
in that. I love that you maybe think of something,
(03:40):
which is journalists get to be curious for a living. Yeah,
which is really cool. And I think actors are like
that too, at least the ones A lot of the
ones I speak to are get They get to be
curious and inhabit new stories, and I think that there
is a lot of cross over there. It's true. We yeah,
we have to. We have to. We're always looking for
the deeper, you know, the more. We're always digging lutely.
(04:01):
And in terms of this story, obviously, journalism is at
the center of it. Jessica Pressler's incredible story on Anna Delvie.
Unlike a lot of people we've spoken to this podcast,
you have said that you actually didn't know that much
about the Anna delbe saga, and I would love to
know how that informed your conversations with Shonda Rhimes and
Betsy Beers when you sat down to talk about Vivian
And what were the questions you were asking in those
(04:23):
first meetings. Oh, I had just I had actually just
listened to Rebecca Jarvis's podcast on Elizabeth Holmes, and so
this is the dropout about the Paramos founders scamp right, Yes,
so it was really already kind of at the tip
(04:43):
of my brain, the young sort of exemplifying of a
young woman who is, you know, sort of doing better
at this fakery game than even the fakers who made it.
That's sort of what was on my brain. Well, in
the so much that comes up in Elizabeth Holmes story,
the idea of how an attractive young woman, a blonde woman,
(05:07):
how she can navigate this world in a way that
is different from an older person or maybe a person
of color. She inhabits a very unique space. And how
mad they were about like her changing her voice and yeah,
it's weird, You're right, Like inauthenticity is always weird. It's
always weird. I love truth, I love telling the truth.
I'm just saying, however, are you that mad at all
(05:30):
those like, you know, nerdy guys who then start dressing
like their hip hop stars and like they're all completely
false as well? Well. And let's also go back to
the tech pioneers. I mean a lot of these guys
exerted a lot of abusive behavior on their employees and
colleagues that was forgiven because of their genius. So we
(05:50):
see this over and over again as men not having
to apologize for those behaviors. But women know, the young
women are only allowed to be genius as long as
the older men can to own them. That's it. That
is very true. So that that is what we were
talking about. I love that. And when you were talking
to Shawanda and Betsy about this, obviously they have so
many insights and wonderful directions of how to guide actors,
(06:13):
but they also want you to claim this as your own.
Vivian Kent is not a real person. She's obviously an
amalgam largely based on Jessica, but also composite aspects to
her too. What did they empower you to do in
terms of owning this character and creating something new for
the screen. That was very much some of the beginning conversations,
because we just had to decide where. We had wonderful
(06:35):
research department. They were able to provide us with anything
you needed, and so the first decision was what's my directive? Like,
what's where where? What path do I take in the research?
So I I found that just reading the copious notes
that Jessica provided us was such. I was almost surprised
(06:58):
at how much that opened up for me, because I
realized Vivian, the character Vivian loves her brain probably more
than anything that does come through. I like that, you know,
she really loves it, and so in the written word
means so much to her because she cares about the
(07:19):
craft of journalism as passionately as I care about the
craft of acting. And so I just thought, you know,
the written word is really going to be my anchor
and my guide in making these choices and and knowing
her motivations and knowing how she ticks. I'm playing somebody
(07:39):
who loves the page very much, and the page that
has just been this dying breed for how many years
it keeps saying print is dead. We've seen, actually the
announcements of some of my favorite magazines ceasing print publications
in the last few weeks, and I feel, as does Vivian.
My heart breaks every day when you hear these announcements.
M H. What was so interesting to me, and this
(08:01):
is there is a style. There is a distinct style
to this article, and it's the style that, like personally,
Anna Klumsky, I don't write it. You know, when I
write my own stuff, I don't write in that style.
It's it has a really deft balance between classicism in
like well constructed you know, thesis, and colloquialism. There's a
(08:26):
lot of colloquialism in it there. That was exactly what
I was going for. I was like, the reason Vivian
is good at this and why she trusts She wants
to trust her instincts so badly, even though others really don't.
She knows that she's got that sort of sweet spot
(08:46):
between like classical literature and taste in art and pop right,
she can swim between the two, and that's why she's like, no, no,
this is a cover story. And like, honestly, like I said,
I didn't know anything about it before, so I probably
would have been like, really, is this a cover story?
(09:06):
She knew, but it's all in the way she chose
to tell it. Yes, yes, but she knew that people
would grab it. Yeah, And there's a Wall Street Journal
version of this story. There's an Atlantic burnished version of
this story. And she chose to tell it in her
voice because she she trusted her instincts that that was
going to resonate with people, and that's where that sort
of trust me, guys, trust me, this is it. Yeah. Yeah,
(09:30):
in the you know, the very uncomfortable words proved just
dead type topic. I think there's a lot of people
who are just like throw up their hands or they're like,
I don't know how to talk to these people, right,
I don't know what TikTok is. I don't know what
these people do. And she's like, well, you can do that,
or you can actually try and understand it. And you know,
we've some sort of a fabric between the two between
(09:53):
where we came from and where we're going. You gotta
figure it out, you know. And and and I think
she's got that. She's she's got that potmante reality. That
is something that I don't. I'm very square. Well you're
more academic leaning, yes, And so I was. I was
really excited to figure that out and and live in
that world a little bit because because I don't live
(10:14):
there often. Well, and what you bring up is so important,
which is her pot mentality is the reason her stories
are so perfect for I p to adapt. Hustlers is
very evocative. It's at once about class and people of
color and women trying to break into a world. It's
also just sort of sexy and fun and audacious and
disguised and set exactly and disguise and sex. So I
(10:36):
think it's like that gay till least, that great tradition
of their narrative storyteller. But who isn't judging his or
her subjects. You're just coloring the world and then putting
it out there. And I think that's what Jessica and
thus Shonda has done with this show. Yes, yes, yeah,
Shonda also has Yeah, she had a big part in
this too. Yeah that magic. Okay, don't go anywhere. There's
(10:59):
more from behind the scenes of inventing Anna right after this.
Hey Stacy here again. Now back to the interview. So,
(11:25):
I have a number of scenes i'd love to discuss
with you because there's so many things to unpack. As
the kids say these days. I like that one there's
someone get hold space. I'm like, God, don't we have
a better way? Don't we have a better way to
say it? I love the idea of holding space, but
I want a better way. But on Pat, I totally
I'm still on that train. I like, let's unpack. I'm
with you. I do not bristle at that word. I
(11:46):
actually I revel and using it. So let's unpack There's
something in episode two that really struck me, which is
this idea that journalists sort of celebrate this badge of
honor of being these poor worker bees. Right, you know,
you rail against the establishment. I don't need that fancy job.
I'm doing this for thirty five K year and I'm
doing God's work and I'm for the people. And then
(12:08):
when we see her go to the mansion, we see
her spend time with Talia. This is Vivian, of course,
we see her sort of softening and thinking, well, maybe
money is not that bad and these heated floors are
actually really really luxurious and comfortable inhale. What is that stage?
This whole freaking compound must be infused with him? And yeah,
(12:32):
I can't find stage anywhere. And I've looked. Maybe it's
sage were smelling, Maybe it's money. So tell me how
you perceived that push pull for Vivian of wanting to
kind of stay in this kind of reverse snobbery space
wealth and then what she ends up learning about that
and about herself. Well, and I want to be really
(12:54):
sensitive to anything that I say that might sound in
any way like a judgment because I I, you're supposed
to be your character's advocate, and I am, of course,
um Vivian because of her beat, because she did entertainment
and finance. I think she she did want to be
a part of the club. So you think she was
(13:16):
kind of secretly pining for that. Yeah, I think you know,
she found her way into this world via these beats,
and so you have to ask yourself, well, why is
that where? And we were talking just talking about this
with with the pop mentality, I think she is into it.
I think she does like shiny things. That's very interesting, right,
And I do think that she, um, this is backstory
(13:40):
stuff that I built for myself. But like you know,
I do think that she was driven by the idea
that well, if I just cracked the code, they'll let
me in. And cracking the code is is the chasing
of the story. Let's what we watch in her job
is the cracking of the code. And that sounds a
lot like someone named Anna Delvin, so yes, and I
(14:02):
think that that's why she gets it right away. She goes, wait,
how did she do it? She went the back way
and I have been trying to go to right. She's
been trying to do it follow the rules exactly. And
so I had just in the playing of the Talia
scenes so much fun. We had so much fun with
the idea that she was starstruck she like genuinely probably
(14:25):
loves Talia's products and like probably loves his magazine. It
was almost like Talia found her on the street and
brought her home and said, let me just give you
something pretty to wear it. Yes, And I love the
idea that she was trying to pretend she wouldn't like, no,
this is a job. I'm pretending I'm really cool. I mean,
you know that the concept is like if you love
Rachel Ray or if you love Oprah, or if you
(14:47):
know what I think women love them, you know, like
she like. And so I love the idea of like
Vivian really trying to play down how like freaking giddy
she would. It was very fun to watch. And also
just the awkwardness and discomfort with which she walked into
the room after she put the calf down on. It
was almost like she had just put on this uniform
where she's thinking, Okay, this is I'm playing this part
(15:09):
now and I'm loving it. Yeah, And loving it, and
am I going to get in trouble? Like? Are my
boss is watching me somewhere? Am I going to get right? Yeah?
I mean there really is. And I've dealt with this myself,
this idea. You know, you can't take free lunches and
if someone's giving you a gift. I mean it's a
real line that that we have to follow in, but
it definitely gets blurred. That's what our shows about. And
you know she had to spend the night and that
(15:30):
is so what our shows about. Yep, yep. Another scene
that I really love that is actually not as much
about you as it is thematically about something important. Episode seven,
when we see Vivian madly writing her story the race
against time for her water to break or not to break,
and Barry and mod are talking about Vivian's melee and
(15:50):
then the fracas with the story and the idea that
you know, she didn't have the opportunity to mess up
and not have it impact her career. I'm and she's crazy.
She is not crazy. She has her reasons. So she
made one mistake in her career. Women don't get to
make mistakes. It was a big buck up. Anna Davie
(16:13):
and Harry Kenny doing that hushed tones. I'm so glad
you picked that out because it was so well done,
so well meant like they're just talking about somebody that
they care about, but their their characters. They're like, yeah,
let's let's be really real about this. But it's funny
because that character, who fancies himself very awoke and progressive
(16:34):
and he's very he doesn't realize that the privilege that
he has enjoyed that if that did happen to him,
he would never have had to think twice, he wouldn't
have been put on probation, he wouldn't have had to worry.
Am I ever going to work again? And we have
mods saying but women don't get to make mistakes and
that really puts a fine point on so much of
what's driving Vivian. And how did that inform your performance? Oh?
(16:55):
It was, it was so much. I mean it's right
there in the writing. Seana just and and our wonderful
writers just gave Vivian so much depth that like, I
would be remissed to not play all of it, you know,
like it's it's all to be played. And yeah, that
that that's so much of her drive. You know and
and I think the other thing is too, is like
(17:17):
with with that backstory of what happened before we meet
her in our program that we've uncover throughout. This is
what the con does. And I love in the fifth episode, um,
next episode we see it. It's a beautiful sequence where
we really feel the pit in your stomach that happens
when you find out that maybe you would do it. Yeah,
(17:38):
everything's cool. I just had a question about that. Guests, Sama, Anna,
who's leasing to any one? You know? I talked about that.
My dad's ever heard of her. Maybe she made inquiries
a whole bunch of people towards that place. But thanks, Charlie.
(18:00):
The reason betrayal like that is so bad is it
because it makes the person who put all of their
trust in somebody, it makes them doubt themselves. That's the
major harm. You start to mistrust that little voice, your instincts, Yes,
and that's all you've got. And so we're watching Vivian
just grasping at any sense of stability when it comes
(18:24):
to her own gut, and her own gut is like
also occupied by this brand new thing too, right, So,
actually speaking of her gut and the thing that she's
growing inside of her. The next thing I wanted to
talk to you about is a fantastic sequence where she's
giving birth and she's struggling and her husband, who knows
her best, says, tells the dtor Waite, I got this,
(18:45):
and he tells her you're failing, you're losing, And out
of all the sort of mantrass, she can tell herself
what is she invoke? But something from Anna delves saying
You're not special. I'm not special. Women have babies every day.
Walk me through how you think. In that moment, we
finally see all of this influence coalescing in her, even
(19:06):
though she's pushing Anna back all the time, but we
see that this that this person has seeped into her
consciousness in a way that maybe she is even surprised by. Yeah,
and that's I mean, you you just said it, and
that's that is for me. Something that I think is
so special about the show we made is really this
whole Annadelbi story. Yes, it's it's shiny, and it's interesting,
(19:29):
and it's societally compelling and all of that. I mean,
it really really is. And when you go to the core,
it's about relationships. It's about friendships, relationships. That's why this
whole thing is, you know, the social media of it,
that's about relationships, and we all have to understand where
we're at right now with how we relate to one another.
(19:51):
The idea that a journalist who's whole motivation to be
in front of another human being is to get the
most intimate parts of that person. Just because they asked,
bring your both circle. You know, that's a relationship. That
(20:12):
is a major relationship and you can't not be affected.
You know, it's when we go on the subway and
a person smiles at us, or even these days, you
see it in their eyes because we're wearing masks. That
can affect your whole day, That can affect the whole
(20:32):
way you think about New York City that day because
somebody was kind on the subway. This is life. And
so when we get to that, really it's a it's
a climax of the baby part of the you know,
of the pregnancy. When we get to that extremely vulnerable moment,
(20:57):
in an irreplaceable moment in Vivian's life and we see
that she's she has been so affected and it benefited her.
It helped her do the most important thing she had
to do, and it was meant as an insult in
the first places. We can only do this in ourt.
(21:19):
We can only do this in TV or or film
and storytelling because it's actually very difficult to put into
words unless you're seeing it shown before you. It's very true.
We're taking a short break, but please stay tuned. However,
(21:41):
one we're back. You talk about relationships, and one of
the more intriguing relationships in the series, which we don't
really get to explore too much, is the one between
Anna and her mom, and of course Viving, you know,
learned so much about Anna's back story and her trip
to Europe, and yet does she And yet I'm always
(22:02):
like wait, But because that's that, you know, she had
to have the grace to say, I'm not I'm not
digging anymore. Right, at the very least she got some context, yes,
for Anna and her back story. Her mother tells Vivian,
it is better to believe monsters make monsters. Who knows,
sometimes you have a child, like my evanent their soul
(22:26):
is your soul, and sometimes you have a child. She's
a stranger, and that you a stranger. Life coold, strange,
(22:46):
It's a sad scene, and you start to see in Vivian,
you know she's coming off the buzz of her story.
She's thinking like, Okay, I got my career back, I'm
getting the office. And you really start to see a
little sinking feeling in her that not that she did
something wrong to Anna, but there's so much more to this.
There's so much pain that needs to be unpacked, to
use our word, and at this point it's sort of
(23:06):
time for her to step away. Tell me how you
played that moment with that wonderful actress who played her mother,
and how did that inform for you the bigger meaning
of Anna Delvie. Yeah, I mean, I honestly, I'm even
thinking about it in a new way right now because
I'm like, that moment is also the moment where I
don't know if she realizes this, but the person playing
(23:29):
her that's me realize that this is a lot of
postpartum stuff. There's this mania that she's got to go
and do this. I thought about that that the effect
of having just she's breastfeeding and she's having to do
this after this traumatic physiological event, and then she gets
on a plane. I mean, that cannot be easy for
her not easy, and they even talk about she and
she and Jack talked about it. We where why because
(23:56):
what if she's not fake? What if she's not the fake? Allis?
What if she's been telling the truth this whole time?
All of that money she showed up with the New
York where was that? From all of the rumors that
she might be laundering money, all the suspicious answers that
I got from her parents. This story could be bigger
than and it could be bigger than anyone knows. And
I I know the timing is bad, and she's like,
(24:20):
I gotta do what I gotta do. You know, there's
this there's it's a compulsion that she's following, and of
course it's also on the back of this other thing
that she birthed being out there in the world, and
she can't have any more control over it, right, which
is like exactly what you're terrified of all the time
when you have maybe you'renna have a kid, right like
or even then in the context of your life, when
(24:41):
you make a piece of art that you ultimately don't
have control over how it's received, how it's edited, how
it's packaged. So there must have been signed familiarity on
your part with that too, definitely, but like legit that
comes out so much in just being a new mother,
you know. And so I think that I do think
that that whole trip is a trip about new motherhood,
(25:02):
right because that scene that you're describing, you know, she
she's leaking. She's completely exposed to this other person who's
already gone through this you are a mother a couple
of months. Now, she's exposed as a human, as a
person who has flaws and forgot to do these things
(25:24):
like you know, change her paths and like I didn't
realize what time it was and all that, And so
there's this idea of also her going, you know, I
might not be up to this right now? Mm hmm,
Like am I going to actually discover all the things
I want to discover about these people? Am I going
(25:46):
to bug them more ruin their lives and even more
expose them even more? And is it worth it? At
that point? Is it worth it? And also I'm raw
as can be and where in their shirt now? Like
who's exposing who now? Right? So I think there's a
bit of just having to pull back on the reins
(26:08):
in a way and just be like let's everybody just
go back to their corners for a second. Yeah. And
also the fact that she's connecting with this person who
she doesn't know, but she's connecting with her as a mother.
You know that a few weeks prior they wouldn't have
had that in common. And now she is thinking and
seeing the world differently because of this newfound sense of
(26:30):
of maybe rawness. Like you said, yeah, yeah, it's complex.
It is very complex. And the final sting I'd love
to discuss, of course, is between Vivian and Anna in prison,
their last interaction. This is it, this is the last
time we're going to see each other. I'm saying, I'm sorry,
I'm asking you no, stop, Vivian. You're not to my
(26:53):
friend when not some giggling idiot to be a fun whatever.
I don't like you. You have terrible shoes. This was
a transaction. We had to deal. No, it's okay. You
minds good and your pot to the deal. You said
too with Magma famous and you did. Who's more famous
(27:14):
right now than on a Delvey. I would love to know,
first of all, how you and Julia you played the
scenes so beautifully, what you talked about beforehand and what
you were trying to accomplish together in that moment, because
it's such a hard tone to strike in doing scenes
with Julia. I think we approach a scene very similarly,
you know, in that we let the text tell us
(27:35):
where it goes and we take it from there and
letting the text lead us. But then of course we
we did kind of look at each other in the
eye and go, oh, this is our last thing, this
is our last thing to do. So there was a
bit of I appreciated this, and I'm so happy you
know'll miss you and you know. And was it odd
too that all of your interactions were in the prison setting.
(27:56):
I mean you obviously there were some courthouse scenes, but
really the thrust of your entire her connection with this
character is the two of you sitting in front of
each other. Yes, it was strange and wonderful. It was
strange wonderful because it's it's what you sign up for
an acting class, like just to sit in front of
your scene partner and try to get the thing you
need from them with the text. Like that's literally what
(28:19):
you sign up for as an actor. And we got
to do that. We got to do it, and it
was so fun and yeah, that scene we we kind
of played around with how much how much they were
feeling and how much they were willing to show their feelings,
and you know, it was there was a bit of
choreography that we all director included, like we we all
sort of were fine tuning with every with every take.
(28:41):
Having lived through this character and the story. From the
perspective of Vivian, what do you think are the lessons
that you feel can be gleaned from this story? Where
do you think she succeeds and where do you think
she fails, if at all. I think what we did
talk about already with regards to relationship. I think the
idea that we don't get to compartmentalize as much as
(29:06):
we think, you know, and that really too pretend that
we can can really limit us. I think that if
we can know that everybody deserves respect and everybody deserves
their story told, and that that will affect the storyteller
as well, and that that's a unique perspective. We get choices,
(29:27):
we get choices about how to tell a story. I
think that that gives us a better sense of responsibility, hopefully,
and I think that that's what Vivian sort of is
discovering in in real time for herself. You know, I
think that that certainly she she does fail in a
(29:48):
lot of ways of just maybe not being aware of
herself and aware of what's actually going on with her
instead of thinking about the outside all the time. And
I think that she ultimately succeeds in I mean, obviously
in getting the story she wants right, of course, that
(30:09):
was the end goal, right, and all of her redemption
and all that, but also just on a on a
deeper personal level, I think she probably succeeds in understanding
like that heart has a huge capacity and that it's
not just reserved for who the brain says it's reserved for. Yeah,
(30:30):
that's surprising to her, but also got to be a
success for her because I think it's going to make
her better at what she does. And it feeds indirectly
to something Jessica shared with us, which is this the
fallacy of journalists having to be objective. No one can
ever be totally objective. Everyone brings a point of view
to a story, but it's sort of that reserving of
judgment and just being open, which sounds like is where
(30:54):
you left Vivian as her performer yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, well, Anne, Uh,
thank you so much for your time. I know you're
a busy woman. We really appreciate you sharing such insightful
thoughts with us, and we congratulate you on your work
in the show. Thank you, Thank you so much for
taking the time. Thank you, thank you so much for listening.
(31:22):
Next time, I'll be back with actor Alexis Floyd, who
plays Anna's rider die Nef. Alexis offers some powerful insights
into her character and tells us what it was like
to meet and befriend the real Nef. I remember one
of the first things Shanda said to me so simply,
was I love this woman. You know. In the character
description she describes her as Barack Obama meets. Wow, that's
(31:47):
a tall order, Alexis. You're telling me. If you're enjoying
the show, subscribe, share with your friends, rate, and leave
us a review. All that good stuff. And if you
have it finished binging Shonda lands Inventing Anna on Netflix,
please go do that. We don't want to spoil it
for you. Inventing Anna, the official podcast is executive produced
(32:11):
by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins.
Our producer and editor is Nicholas Harder, and the show
is produced and hosted by me Stacy Wilson Hunt Inventing Anna.
The official podcast is a production of Shonda land Audio
(32:33):
in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shonda
Land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to
Inventing Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the
making of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your
host Stacy Wilson Hunt, and today I'm going to dig
(00:21):
into some scenes with Emmy nominated actor Anna Klumsky, who
plays journalist Vivian Kent. In our chat, Anna reveals her
lifelong ambition to play a journalist and her approach to
bringing Vivian to life on screen. We also discussed some
of our favorite milestone Vivian moments and how she and
co star Julia Garner approached their final scene together. Welcome
(00:45):
Anna Clumsky. It's so nice to have you on our show.
How are you? Thank you. I'm well, I'm well. How
are you doing well? And it's hard for me to
not think of you every time I hear the name
Inventing Anna, because that is also your name. Also my name,
also Anna Davir Smith's name. Yes, yeah, there were a
lot of Anna's. I wondered about that on set if
there was some confusion. Oh yeah, all the time, all
(01:07):
the time. And then yeah, and we would always say,
just call us by our characters. Well you figured it out,
which is all that matters. Yeah, So before we talk
about inventing Anna, I was very intrigued and heartened to
hear about something you said recently, which is you had
always dreamed about playing a journalist and as a journalist.
I'm so happy that someone would dream about playing a
(01:27):
character like me and a show. You've also said that
you have been scared to ask people questions in your
life as Anna as an actor, and I'm curious walk
me through not only what has intrigued you about journalism,
but what is it about that job that scared you.
I mean, we could do, you know, several long therapy
sessions on why I you know, like why I have
(01:49):
basically like a big old censor on my own questioning.
I think, honestly to be succinct about it, I'm I'm
sort of a large talker. I don't do small talk.
I do large talk, and I you know, over the
last forty one year, I've discovered that sometimes people aren't
into that. Sometimes people really don't want to skip to
(02:12):
like their mom and they're like issues in their household.
They want to just talk about the weather, right, So
you're saying you prefer to get into existential angst and
not small talk essentially usually yes, yeah, almost as a rule,
I don't want to I don't want to hurt people
with my with my curiosity. There's so much of that
(02:35):
superficial banter that is kind of part of the job
at parties and gatherings. And I have felt that too,
where you just think, can we just get to the
good stuff? Right, Yeah, Yeah, that's one of That's one
one of the reasons I lived in your smart Smart
not to make generalizations, but let's generalize. Yeah, And but
then also yeah, so like I think I really started
(02:57):
to get into the idea of like, wow, what is
it what is it like to just have unbridled channel
from your own curiosity to the person that you're with,
Like Frank rich is a is a great journalist. Of
course you worked with him on Veep, yes, and so
he was a producer on Veep, and you know, we
would like go out with him and his wife, Alex Witchell,
(03:19):
and they would just they just had it all right there.
They just like everything. They were so curious about everything
around them, and they were so excited to know more,
and they would ask. They would just ask, and I thought, Oh, wow,
that's just amazing and delicious, and I am so interested
in that. I love that you maybe think of something,
(03:40):
which is journalists get to be curious for a living. Yeah,
which is really cool. And I think actors are like
that too, at least the ones A lot of the
ones I speak to are get They get to be
curious and inhabit new stories, and I think that there
is a lot of cross over there. It's true. We yeah,
we have to. We have to. We're always looking for
the deeper, you know, the more. We're always digging lutely.
(04:01):
And in terms of this story, obviously, journalism is at
the center of it. Jessica Pressler's incredible story on Anna Delvie.
Unlike a lot of people we've spoken to this podcast,
you have said that you actually didn't know that much
about the Anna delbe saga, and I would love to
know how that informed your conversations with Shonda Rhimes and
Betsy Beers when you sat down to talk about Vivian
And what were the questions you were asking in those
(04:23):
first meetings. Oh, I had just I had actually just
listened to Rebecca Jarvis's podcast on Elizabeth Holmes, and so
this is the dropout about the Paramos founders scamp right, Yes,
so it was really already kind of at the tip
(04:43):
of my brain, the young sort of exemplifying of a
young woman who is, you know, sort of doing better
at this fakery game than even the fakers who made it.
That's sort of what was on my brain. Well, in
the so much that comes up in Elizabeth Holmes story,
the idea of how an attractive young woman, a blonde woman,
(05:07):
how she can navigate this world in a way that
is different from an older person or maybe a person
of color. She inhabits a very unique space. And how
mad they were about like her changing her voice and yeah,
it's weird, You're right, Like inauthenticity is always weird. It's
always weird. I love truth, I love telling the truth.
I'm just saying, however, are you that mad at all
(05:30):
those like, you know, nerdy guys who then start dressing
like their hip hop stars and like they're all completely
false as well? Well. And let's also go back to
the tech pioneers. I mean a lot of these guys
exerted a lot of abusive behavior on their employees and
colleagues that was forgiven because of their genius. So we
(05:50):
see this over and over again as men not having
to apologize for those behaviors. But women know, the young
women are only allowed to be genius as long as
the older men can to own them. That's it. That
is very true. So that that is what we were
talking about. I love that. And when you were talking
to Shawanda and Betsy about this, obviously they have so
many insights and wonderful directions of how to guide actors,
(06:13):
but they also want you to claim this as your own.
Vivian Kent is not a real person. She's obviously an
amalgam largely based on Jessica, but also composite aspects to
her too. What did they empower you to do in
terms of owning this character and creating something new for
the screen. That was very much some of the beginning conversations,
because we just had to decide where. We had wonderful
(06:35):
research department. They were able to provide us with anything
you needed, and so the first decision was what's my directive? Like,
what's where where? What path do I take in the research?
So I I found that just reading the copious notes
that Jessica provided us was such. I was almost surprised
(06:58):
at how much that opened up for me, because I
realized Vivian, the character Vivian loves her brain probably more
than anything that does come through. I like that, you know,
she really loves it, and so in the written word
means so much to her because she cares about the
(07:19):
craft of journalism as passionately as I care about the
craft of acting. And so I just thought, you know,
the written word is really going to be my anchor
and my guide in making these choices and and knowing
her motivations and knowing how she ticks. I'm playing somebody
(07:39):
who loves the page very much, and the page that
has just been this dying breed for how many years
it keeps saying print is dead. We've seen, actually the
announcements of some of my favorite magazines ceasing print publications
in the last few weeks, and I feel, as does Vivian.
My heart breaks every day when you hear these announcements.
M H. What was so interesting to me, and this
(08:01):
is there is a style. There is a distinct style
to this article, and it's the style that, like personally,
Anna Klumsky, I don't write it. You know, when I
write my own stuff, I don't write in that style.
It's it has a really deft balance between classicism in
like well constructed you know, thesis, and colloquialism. There's a
(08:26):
lot of colloquialism in it there. That was exactly what
I was going for. I was like, the reason Vivian
is good at this and why she trusts She wants
to trust her instincts so badly, even though others really don't.
She knows that she's got that sort of sweet spot
(08:46):
between like classical literature and taste in art and pop right,
she can swim between the two, and that's why she's like, no, no,
this is a cover story. And like, honestly, like I said,
I didn't know anything about it before, so I probably
would have been like, really, is this a cover story?
(09:06):
She knew, but it's all in the way she chose
to tell it. Yes, yes, but she knew that people
would grab it. Yeah, And there's a Wall Street Journal
version of this story. There's an Atlantic burnished version of
this story. And she chose to tell it in her
voice because she she trusted her instincts that that was
going to resonate with people, and that's where that sort
of trust me, guys, trust me, this is it. Yeah. Yeah,
(09:30):
in the you know, the very uncomfortable words proved just
dead type topic. I think there's a lot of people
who are just like throw up their hands or they're like,
I don't know how to talk to these people, right,
I don't know what TikTok is. I don't know what
these people do. And she's like, well, you can do that,
or you can actually try and understand it. And you know,
we've some sort of a fabric between the two between
(09:53):
where we came from and where we're going. You gotta
figure it out, you know. And and and I think
she's got that. She's she's got that potmante reality. That
is something that I don't. I'm very square. Well you're
more academic leaning, yes, And so I was. I was
really excited to figure that out and and live in
that world a little bit because because I don't live
(10:14):
there often. Well, and what you bring up is so important,
which is her pot mentality is the reason her stories
are so perfect for I p to adapt. Hustlers is
very evocative. It's at once about class and people of
color and women trying to break into a world. It's
also just sort of sexy and fun and audacious and
disguised and set exactly and disguise and sex. So I
(10:36):
think it's like that gay till least, that great tradition
of their narrative storyteller. But who isn't judging his or
her subjects. You're just coloring the world and then putting
it out there. And I think that's what Jessica and
thus Shonda has done with this show. Yes, yes, yeah,
Shonda also has Yeah, she had a big part in
this too. Yeah that magic. Okay, don't go anywhere. There's
(10:59):
more from behind the scenes of inventing Anna right after this.
Hey Stacy here again. Now back to the interview. So,
(11:25):
I have a number of scenes i'd love to discuss
with you because there's so many things to unpack. As
the kids say these days. I like that one there's
someone get hold space. I'm like, God, don't we have
a better way? Don't we have a better way to
say it? I love the idea of holding space, but
I want a better way. But on Pat, I totally
I'm still on that train. I like, let's unpack. I'm
with you. I do not bristle at that word. I
(11:46):
actually I revel and using it. So let's unpack There's
something in episode two that really struck me, which is
this idea that journalists sort of celebrate this badge of
honor of being these poor worker bees. Right, you know,
you rail against the establishment. I don't need that fancy job.
I'm doing this for thirty five K year and I'm
doing God's work and I'm for the people. And then
(12:08):
when we see her go to the mansion, we see
her spend time with Talia. This is Vivian, of course,
we see her sort of softening and thinking, well, maybe
money is not that bad and these heated floors are
actually really really luxurious and comfortable inhale. What is that stage?
This whole freaking compound must be infused with him? And yeah,
(12:32):
I can't find stage anywhere. And I've looked. Maybe it's
sage were smelling, Maybe it's money. So tell me how
you perceived that push pull for Vivian of wanting to
kind of stay in this kind of reverse snobbery space
wealth and then what she ends up learning about that
and about herself. Well, and I want to be really
(12:54):
sensitive to anything that I say that might sound in
any way like a judgment because I I, you're supposed
to be your character's advocate, and I am, of course,
um Vivian because of her beat, because she did entertainment
and finance. I think she she did want to be
a part of the club. So you think she was
(13:16):
kind of secretly pining for that. Yeah, I think you know,
she found her way into this world via these beats,
and so you have to ask yourself, well, why is
that where? And we were talking just talking about this
with with the pop mentality, I think she is into it.
I think she does like shiny things. That's very interesting, right,
And I do think that she, um, this is backstory
(13:40):
stuff that I built for myself. But like you know,
I do think that she was driven by the idea
that well, if I just cracked the code, they'll let
me in. And cracking the code is is the chasing
of the story. Let's what we watch in her job
is the cracking of the code. And that sounds a
lot like someone named Anna Delvin, so yes, and I
(14:02):
think that that's why she gets it right away. She goes, wait,
how did she do it? She went the back way
and I have been trying to go to right. She's
been trying to do it follow the rules exactly. And
so I had just in the playing of the Talia
scenes so much fun. We had so much fun with
the idea that she was starstruck she like genuinely probably
(14:25):
loves Talia's products and like probably loves his magazine. It
was almost like Talia found her on the street and
brought her home and said, let me just give you
something pretty to wear it. Yes, And I love the
idea that she was trying to pretend she wouldn't like, no,
this is a job. I'm pretending I'm really cool. I mean,
you know that the concept is like if you love
Rachel Ray or if you love Oprah, or if you
(14:47):
know what I think women love them, you know, like
she like. And so I love the idea of like
Vivian really trying to play down how like freaking giddy
she would. It was very fun to watch. And also
just the awkwardness and discomfort with which she walked into
the room after she put the calf down on. It
was almost like she had just put on this uniform
where she's thinking, Okay, this is I'm playing this part
(15:09):
now and I'm loving it. Yeah, And loving it, and
am I going to get in trouble? Like? Are my
boss is watching me somewhere? Am I going to get right? Yeah?
I mean there really is. And I've dealt with this myself,
this idea. You know, you can't take free lunches and
if someone's giving you a gift. I mean it's a
real line that that we have to follow in, but
it definitely gets blurred. That's what our shows about. And
you know she had to spend the night and that
(15:30):
is so what our shows about. Yep, yep. Another scene
that I really love that is actually not as much
about you as it is thematically about something important. Episode seven,
when we see Vivian madly writing her story the race
against time for her water to break or not to break,
and Barry and mod are talking about Vivian's melee and
(15:50):
then the fracas with the story and the idea that
you know, she didn't have the opportunity to mess up
and not have it impact her career. I'm and she's crazy.
She is not crazy. She has her reasons. So she
made one mistake in her career. Women don't get to
make mistakes. It was a big buck up. Anna Davie
(16:13):
and Harry Kenny doing that hushed tones. I'm so glad
you picked that out because it was so well done,
so well meant like they're just talking about somebody that
they care about, but their their characters. They're like, yeah,
let's let's be really real about this. But it's funny
because that character, who fancies himself very awoke and progressive
(16:34):
and he's very he doesn't realize that the privilege that
he has enjoyed that if that did happen to him,
he would never have had to think twice, he wouldn't
have been put on probation, he wouldn't have had to worry.
Am I ever going to work again? And we have
mods saying but women don't get to make mistakes and
that really puts a fine point on so much of
what's driving Vivian. And how did that inform your performance? Oh?
(16:55):
It was, it was so much. I mean it's right
there in the writing. Seana just and and our wonderful
writers just gave Vivian so much depth that like, I
would be remissed to not play all of it, you know,
like it's it's all to be played. And yeah, that
that that's so much of her drive. You know and
and I think the other thing is too, is like
(17:17):
with with that backstory of what happened before we meet
her in our program that we've uncover throughout. This is
what the con does. And I love in the fifth episode, um,
next episode we see it. It's a beautiful sequence where
we really feel the pit in your stomach that happens
when you find out that maybe you would do it. Yeah,
(17:38):
everything's cool. I just had a question about that. Guests, Sama, Anna,
who's leasing to any one? You know? I talked about that.
My dad's ever heard of her. Maybe she made inquiries
a whole bunch of people towards that place. But thanks, Charlie.
(18:00):
The reason betrayal like that is so bad is it
because it makes the person who put all of their
trust in somebody, it makes them doubt themselves. That's the
major harm. You start to mistrust that little voice, your instincts, Yes,
and that's all you've got. And so we're watching Vivian
just grasping at any sense of stability when it comes
(18:24):
to her own gut, and her own gut is like
also occupied by this brand new thing too, right, So,
actually speaking of her gut and the thing that she's
growing inside of her. The next thing I wanted to
talk to you about is a fantastic sequence where she's
giving birth and she's struggling and her husband, who knows
her best, says, tells the dtor Waite, I got this,
(18:45):
and he tells her you're failing, you're losing, And out
of all the sort of mantrass, she can tell herself
what is she invoke? But something from Anna delves saying
You're not special. I'm not special. Women have babies every day.
Walk me through how you think. In that moment, we
finally see all of this influence coalescing in her, even
(19:06):
though she's pushing Anna back all the time, but we
see that this that this person has seeped into her
consciousness in a way that maybe she is even surprised by. Yeah,
and that's I mean, you you just said it, and
that's that is for me. Something that I think is
so special about the show we made is really this
whole Annadelbi story. Yes, it's it's shiny, and it's interesting,
(19:29):
and it's societally compelling and all of that. I mean,
it really really is. And when you go to the core,
it's about relationships. It's about friendships, relationships. That's why this
whole thing is, you know, the social media of it,
that's about relationships, and we all have to understand where
we're at right now with how we relate to one another.
(19:51):
The idea that a journalist who's whole motivation to be
in front of another human being is to get the
most intimate parts of that person. Just because they asked,
bring your both circle. You know, that's a relationship. That
(20:12):
is a major relationship and you can't not be affected.
You know, it's when we go on the subway and
a person smiles at us, or even these days, you
see it in their eyes because we're wearing masks. That
can affect your whole day, That can affect the whole
(20:32):
way you think about New York City that day because
somebody was kind on the subway. This is life. And
so when we get to that, really it's a it's
a climax of the baby part of the you know,
of the pregnancy. When we get to that extremely vulnerable moment,
(20:57):
in an irreplaceable moment in Vivian's life and we see
that she's she has been so affected and it benefited her.
It helped her do the most important thing she had
to do, and it was meant as an insult in
the first places. We can only do this in ourt.
(21:19):
We can only do this in TV or or film
and storytelling because it's actually very difficult to put into
words unless you're seeing it shown before you. It's very true.
We're taking a short break, but please stay tuned. However,
(21:41):
one we're back. You talk about relationships, and one of
the more intriguing relationships in the series, which we don't
really get to explore too much, is the one between
Anna and her mom, and of course Viving, you know,
learned so much about Anna's back story and her trip
to Europe, and yet does she And yet I'm always
(22:02):
like wait, But because that's that, you know, she had
to have the grace to say, I'm not I'm not
digging anymore. Right, at the very least she got some context, yes,
for Anna and her back story. Her mother tells Vivian,
it is better to believe monsters make monsters. Who knows,
sometimes you have a child, like my evanent their soul
(22:26):
is your soul, and sometimes you have a child. She's
a stranger, and that you a stranger. Life coold, strange,
(22:46):
It's a sad scene, and you start to see in Vivian,
you know she's coming off the buzz of her story.
She's thinking like, Okay, I got my career back, I'm
getting the office. And you really start to see a
little sinking feeling in her that not that she did
something wrong to Anna, but there's so much more to this.
There's so much pain that needs to be unpacked, to
use our word, and at this point it's sort of
(23:06):
time for her to step away. Tell me how you
played that moment with that wonderful actress who played her mother,
and how did that inform for you the bigger meaning
of Anna Delvie. Yeah, I mean, I honestly, I'm even
thinking about it in a new way right now because
I'm like, that moment is also the moment where I
don't know if she realizes this, but the person playing
(23:29):
her that's me realize that this is a lot of
postpartum stuff. There's this mania that she's got to go
and do this. I thought about that that the effect
of having just she's breastfeeding and she's having to do
this after this traumatic physiological event, and then she gets
on a plane. I mean, that cannot be easy for
her not easy, and they even talk about she and
she and Jack talked about it. We where why because
(23:56):
what if she's not fake? What if she's not the fake? Allis?
What if she's been telling the truth this whole time?
All of that money she showed up with the New
York where was that? From all of the rumors that
she might be laundering money, all the suspicious answers that
I got from her parents. This story could be bigger
than and it could be bigger than anyone knows. And
I I know the timing is bad, and she's like,
(24:20):
I gotta do what I gotta do. You know, there's
this there's it's a compulsion that she's following, and of
course it's also on the back of this other thing
that she birthed being out there in the world, and
she can't have any more control over it, right, which
is like exactly what you're terrified of all the time
when you have maybe you'renna have a kid, right like
or even then in the context of your life, when
(24:41):
you make a piece of art that you ultimately don't
have control over how it's received, how it's edited, how
it's packaged. So there must have been signed familiarity on
your part with that too, definitely, but like legit that
comes out so much in just being a new mother,
you know. And so I think that I do think
that that whole trip is a trip about new motherhood,
(25:02):
right because that scene that you're describing, you know, she
she's leaking. She's completely exposed to this other person who's
already gone through this you are a mother a couple
of months. Now, she's exposed as a human, as a
person who has flaws and forgot to do these things
(25:24):
like you know, change her paths and like I didn't
realize what time it was and all that, And so
there's this idea of also her going, you know, I
might not be up to this right now? Mm hmm,
Like am I going to actually discover all the things
I want to discover about these people? Am I going
(25:46):
to bug them more ruin their lives and even more
expose them even more? And is it worth it? At
that point? Is it worth it? And also I'm raw
as can be and where in their shirt now? Like
who's exposing who now? Right? So I think there's a
bit of just having to pull back on the reins
(26:08):
in a way and just be like let's everybody just
go back to their corners for a second. Yeah. And
also the fact that she's connecting with this person who
she doesn't know, but she's connecting with her as a mother.
You know that a few weeks prior they wouldn't have
had that in common. And now she is thinking and
seeing the world differently because of this newfound sense of
(26:30):
of maybe rawness. Like you said, yeah, yeah, it's complex.
It is very complex. And the final sting I'd love
to discuss, of course, is between Vivian and Anna in prison,
their last interaction. This is it, this is the last
time we're going to see each other. I'm saying, I'm sorry,
I'm asking you no, stop, Vivian. You're not to my
(26:53):
friend when not some giggling idiot to be a fun whatever.
I don't like you. You have terrible shoes. This was
a transaction. We had to deal. No, it's okay. You
minds good and your pot to the deal. You said
too with Magma famous and you did. Who's more famous
(27:14):
right now than on a Delvey. I would love to know,
first of all, how you and Julia you played the
scenes so beautifully, what you talked about beforehand and what
you were trying to accomplish together in that moment, because
it's such a hard tone to strike in doing scenes
with Julia. I think we approach a scene very similarly,
you know, in that we let the text tell us
(27:35):
where it goes and we take it from there and
letting the text lead us. But then of course we
we did kind of look at each other in the
eye and go, oh, this is our last thing, this
is our last thing to do. So there was a
bit of I appreciated this, and I'm so happy you
know'll miss you and you know. And was it odd
too that all of your interactions were in the prison setting.
(27:56):
I mean you obviously there were some courthouse scenes, but
really the thrust of your entire her connection with this
character is the two of you sitting in front of
each other. Yes, it was strange and wonderful. It was
strange wonderful because it's it's what you sign up for
an acting class, like just to sit in front of
your scene partner and try to get the thing you
need from them with the text. Like that's literally what
(28:19):
you sign up for as an actor. And we got
to do that. We got to do it, and it
was so fun and yeah, that scene we we kind
of played around with how much how much they were
feeling and how much they were willing to show their feelings,
and you know, it was there was a bit of
choreography that we all director included, like we we all
sort of were fine tuning with every with every take.
(28:41):
Having lived through this character and the story. From the
perspective of Vivian, what do you think are the lessons
that you feel can be gleaned from this story? Where
do you think she succeeds and where do you think
she fails, if at all. I think what we did
talk about already with regards to relationship. I think the
idea that we don't get to compartmentalize as much as
(29:06):
we think, you know, and that really too pretend that
we can can really limit us. I think that if
we can know that everybody deserves respect and everybody deserves
their story told, and that that will affect the storyteller
as well, and that that's a unique perspective. We get choices,
(29:27):
we get choices about how to tell a story. I
think that that gives us a better sense of responsibility, hopefully,
and I think that that's what Vivian sort of is
discovering in in real time for herself. You know, I
think that that certainly she she does fail in a
(29:48):
lot of ways of just maybe not being aware of
herself and aware of what's actually going on with her
instead of thinking about the outside all the time. And
I think that she ultimately succeeds in I mean, obviously
in getting the story she wants right, of course, that
(30:09):
was the end goal, right, and all of her redemption
and all that, but also just on a on a
deeper personal level, I think she probably succeeds in understanding
like that heart has a huge capacity and that it's
not just reserved for who the brain says it's reserved for. Yeah,
(30:30):
that's surprising to her, but also got to be a
success for her because I think it's going to make
her better at what she does. And it feeds indirectly
to something Jessica shared with us, which is this the
fallacy of journalists having to be objective. No one can
ever be totally objective. Everyone brings a point of view
to a story, but it's sort of that reserving of
judgment and just being open, which sounds like is where
(30:54):
you left Vivian as her performer yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, well, Anne, Uh,
thank you so much for your time. I know you're
a busy woman. We really appreciate you sharing such insightful
thoughts with us, and we congratulate you on your work
in the show. Thank you, Thank you so much for
taking the time. Thank you, thank you so much for listening.
(31:22):
Next time, I'll be back with actor Alexis Floyd, who
plays Anna's rider die Nef. Alexis offers some powerful insights
into her character and tells us what it was like
to meet and befriend the real Nef. I remember one
of the first things Shanda said to me so simply,
was I love this woman. You know. In the character
description she describes her as Barack Obama meets. Wow, that's
(31:47):
a tall order, Alexis. You're telling me. If you're enjoying
the show, subscribe, share with your friends, rate, and leave
us a review. All that good stuff. And if you
have it finished binging Shonda lands Inventing Anna on Netflix,
please go do that. We don't want to spoil it
for you. Inventing Anna, the official podcast is executive produced
(32:11):
by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins.
Our producer and editor is Nicholas Harder, and the show
is produced and hosted by me Stacy Wilson Hunt Inventing Anna.
The official podcast is a production of Shonda land Audio
(32:33):
in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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