April 20, 2022 • 39 mins
Stacey hangs out in Scriberia with Anna Deveare Smith (Maud), Jeff Perry (Lou), and Terry Kinney (Barry).
These three legends of the theater world share about their experience working together on screen for the first time, an experience Anna compares to a jazz trio improvising. They certainly have amazing chemistry and have been warmly received by fans, many of whom claim Scriberia as their favorite part of the show.
We’ll delve deep into how they constructed their characters, key Scriberia moments from the show, the importance of journalism and the written word, and their feelings about Anna Delvey and the impact of the series.
To catch up before you listen, make sure you binge Inventing Anna the series on Netflix now.
Please rate, review, subscribe and share Inventing Anna: The Official Podcast with everyone you know.
Follow host Stacey Wilson Hunt @galinhollywood on Instagram and Twitter.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to Inventing
Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the making
of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your host,
Stacy Wilson Hunt, and with me today are three legends
(00:21):
of the theater world, Anna Davie Smith, Terry Kenny and
Jeff Perry, who play scarberreas Maud, Barry and Lou In
case you've forgotten, Scriberria is the nickname of the back
corner of Manhattan Magazine, whereas Vivian says, the bosses quote
send the old writers to die. But these irascible, hilarious
characters not only end up being key to vivian success,
(00:42):
They've also become some of the series biggest fan favorites.
Welcome everyone. I have to say I'm not supposed to
play favorites in this podcast, but I am particularly giddy
about having the three of you on a show. Just
(01:02):
today on Twitter, somebody tweeted me and Shawnda and said
I would totally watch a show just with the scribe
area people. So I'm just saying, keep it, keep it
as an option, and I would love to know how
has the fan reaction to scribe area felt to you, Jeff,
have you been hearing any rumblings of fandom on your end?
Oh my god, A lot of friends and family have
(01:25):
chimed in with big love on the scribe area, miss
of the shows and how much of it was shocked
that I was employed and they were trying to encourage
encourage me whatever. But but anyway, I said, Seanna, it's
just been such a gift man won And what are
(01:49):
people particularly liking? What have you heard from people about
what resonates so much with these characters? Hey, my two cents,
I want to hear from men and tear um. From
the very first reading, I felt kind of audience e
of this is a really fun conception, something about this
(02:10):
little Greek chorus of old people sent to journalism Siberia.
I think Anna took issue with you using the word
old just now, by the way, sorry sorry I was
the only old one. Sorry veteran let's say veteran um.
It just felt like it really worked off the page,
(02:31):
and oh, this is gonna be so fun to be
able to do. And then when I heard it was
with Anna da Vere, who I had been a fan
of for years and years and years, and then that
it was my boyhood buddy, Terry Kenney. I was like,
oh my god, I can't believe it. Yeah. I got
to gush to people too of did you know, because
(02:54):
he usually was friends or family have known me for
fifty years? Did you know that this is Terry and
my pretty much first camera work ever in our decades.
I was actually going to bring that up, which I
found to be a stunning discovery. Terry, walk me through this.
How is it possible you've never shared the screen with
your old buddy? I don't know. I mean our friends
(03:15):
making movies. You think they'd put us both in there
like Gary, you know, put put me in a small role.
But there where was Jeff? Not nowhere to be found.
I did small bit of trivia direct Jeff in my
first feature. I did a feature and Jeff had a
really nice role in it. But that's about it. And
I would love for those who don't know your storied
history as co founders of Steppenwolf, Terry, tell me when
(03:38):
you first met Jeff and how that relationship grew into
this venerable institution in Chicago. I was at Illinois State
University and Jeff came in in an orientation and he
had really messed up hair and dirty glasses and a
flannel shirt. I just thought, I like this guy. I
just I just saw him. I was in class, was
(04:00):
supposed to be paying attention, but I just zoned in
on him as a friend. And it was turned out
to be true, because he he showed up the following
year and maybe the first day we just connected and
he came over to our house and I just think
he never left. We were together the rest of college,
(04:22):
you know, just hanging out. That's how I got to
know Gary through him. And this is Gary Sinise for
those who are wondering who Gary is here? Oh yes,
Gary Sinise. After my sophomore year in Jeff's freshman he said,
would you like to come live in my parents basement
and then do Rosenkrats and Gilling sn or dead. I said, yeah, sure,
and so we we did that. We did it in
(04:43):
a Unitarian church and that was our first step in
wolf play. It was two years before we started the
theater with our college friends. I love that. That is
so inspiring. And speaking of theater, Anna herself a staple
of theater. What were you doing at the time these
fellows were doing their college antics in the basement, etcetera.
(05:03):
First of all, I just have to say that I
didn't know the story about those college antics until being
with these two gentlemen in in hair and makeup. And
I tell it all the time because I'm still a teacher.
I teach at your university, and I just say, you know,
just like give them a basement and have it opened.
(05:25):
Isn't that also the case y'all? That it was like
you could just go into the theater all day or night,
just leave the door open, and something's gonna happen. Because
they made Stepan will End, they made remarkable careers, like
the whole group of them. So I do tell that
story all the time myself. I don't know what year
was that, three four, five six, Well, I was at
(05:47):
the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco studying, and uh,
actually they did give me the keys. I have to say,
the friends of a CT, who were these sort of
you know, women wearing Papa galos and khaki skirts and
doing all good things for the theater and probably raising money,
(06:08):
they did give me the keys to their office because
I didn't I didn't have a typewriter, and I could
go in there and use the typewriter until they arrived
at ten o'clock in the morning. So I did have
a version of that which allowed me to write my
first play at a CT early in the morning with
those keys. I love that. All we need is a basement, right, Okay,
(06:29):
you just need keys somewhere. Jeff, I'd love to talk
to you about your visit to New York Magazine in
preparation to play this part. And Jessica Pressler, of course,
the amazing journalist who wrote the piece that inspired the show.
She gave an interview recently where she talked about your visit,
and she said this quote. When Jeff arrives, Mark Jacobson,
(06:49):
who is a legend, looks at him and says, the
great thing about being a journalist is that you aren't
impressed by anybody. Unfortunately, Jeff didn't seem to be offended
that he wasn't the center of attention. I love this
because I've been a journalist for twenty years. There's something
so wonderful about having to be stone faced about everything
you see in here throughout your day, because if you're affected,
(07:10):
you really can't do your job. Properly. I'm wondering what
did you learn from Mark and also being there that
day that helped inform your character. Yes, so look at
here's quick notes that are from January, which must have
been right around the time that Jessica did me this
gift of come with your little tape recorder and dada, dada.
(07:31):
You're paid for what you're right, so you can go
weeks telling your editors you don't have a story that
you love at the moment. Like a baseball team, you
all you might all have different contracts. You have a
difficult dance of getting people to talk having explained your angle,
but the story can change on you. You have numerous
irons in the fire because you don't know which stories
are gonna pay it out. You get assignments and you
(07:53):
pitch your own. You get typecasts as a journalist, as
a writer for good or ill artistically, just as actors
do based on successes. You sometimes get assigned stuff in
a colleague's wheelhouse because they're busy and you're not. Usually
help each other with your roll at ex contacts if
asked by fellow witer writers like documentary creators, you've fallen
(08:17):
in love at some early age with nonfiction, with listening
to other human stories, you learn, sometimes the hard way
and sometimes slowly, that listening is much more valuable to
your task than talking. You love research, detection, and the
hard part is usually putting that research into the form
(08:37):
of a story. The rewriting, the back and forth of
editor notes is relatively an easier process. If you get
flowers from a subject, you've probably not done your job.
That is so brilliant. So those were the notes, and
Terry and Anna, what felt familiar to the two of you?
(08:59):
About what Jeff shared in terms of how it relates
to your craft as actors. There's a lot of overlap here, right,
tell me, Terry, what felt familiar to you? I mean,
it's a highly competitive thing, and it said the pay scales,
you know, you don't know what anybody else is making.
Your status gets uh interrupted by what you haven't done
(09:20):
for a while. Your type cast to write certain stories.
If you write about glamorous people, they make you do that,
and you may have a think piece on something else
you want to do, but they're not very interested in that.
What you did last is usually the offers you get next.
It's similar with acting, and it becomes important if you
(09:41):
want to change it up, to turn those down if
you can, and then do something completely different the next time.
I love that. And you really do have to assert
yourself to and say I can do more than what
you think I can. That's what really resonated with me
and watching the show. It was having to remind your bosses,
(10:02):
I'm not just one thing, right. And Anna, I know
you've actually done a fair amount of interviewing in your job,
in your many capacities as an academic. Tell me what
you knew about interviewing as an art form, and tell
me what you learned about this craft from preparing to
play this character. Well, I actually traveled on the I
(10:23):
was hired by Newsweek to travel on the Clinton presidential
campaign and on the Dole campaign in nineties six, and
so I traveled with the press corps, and uh, I
got a chance to, you know, meet a lot of
journalists and just live that life, which is very hard,
especially following a campaign. You really don't you know in
(10:45):
that way, it's like acting. I mean you're kind of
like in captivity to production, right as somebody gave me
the advice, you know, p and when you can because
you don't know when you're gonna be able to do
it again. And I had a very good friend, Elizabeth
Knew For the Lady Elizabeth Knew for who was a
war correspondent and she covered Rwanda and Bosnia Kosovo and
(11:06):
was actually killed in Iraq. Terrible. I'm so sorry. One
of the things that I felt about Elizabeth when we
became friends was just okay, so she can sleep anywhere
and eat anything right, And it's that sort of toughness
that I thought about in creating my character for this.
(11:27):
But I would say that for all of us, you know,
we're after the story to be a part of the
story somehow. That's what we all have in common with journalists,
I would say actors in journalists. I love that. So
story is really at the core of both of these crofts. Yeah, okay,
please stand by for these quick messages from our sponsors,
(12:01):
and we're back. I'd love to just start walking through
some scenes because there's so much to work with and
each of you have such great insights to share. So
I'd love to start with episode one and we get
to see how scribe area relates to authority. You went
(12:24):
to Rikers and it answered your letter. You went to rikers.
Yes you went rogue, Good girl, fight the power of woman,
keep your voices, dond your bones for bread. When you
catch his hand the stone, he's not gonna catch you.
Stop pumping your pillages and get over here and help them.
And that really tells us from episode one, Oh, is
(12:46):
this why they're inscribe area? Because they don't play nice?
Do they not like to kind of play the politics
of nice employee to their bosses? So tell me, Terry,
how do you think this scene sets us up? Well?
I think we're being into deduced as people that have
been banished to the periphery in our own little cubical
(13:06):
world because a they can't fire us. We all have Pulitzers,
and secondly, we have no fox left to give. We
don't answer to anybody, you know, and the suits that
are coming down and giving us these bullshit assignments that
we don't want to even do. We don't have to
(13:28):
respect them. We don't have to respect them to their
face or behind their backs. So I think that's what
it sets up is a group of people that, you know,
this young woman who was a successful writer and maybe
made a mistake is banished to Scriberia and we are
immediately attracted to her rogue energy, right. And it's interesting
(13:51):
because Vivian's character, she's kind of nestled between the generations.
She's not in full Scriberian mode, but she's not one
of the new bees. And it's almost like is having
this middle career crisis. Jeff, how do you think that
this scene sort of establishes that for us? Yeah, I
mean we're in an age where long form journalism, and
(14:13):
in fact all of journalism, is facing such existential threat.
But just look at long form journalism where to exaggerate
only slightly, only the Twitter twelve words or whatever the
whatever it's maximum is, you know, can get anybody's attention.
(14:34):
And I think I always assume that the three of us,
in our own way felt such you know, sympathy, love, passion, um, God,
damn it, it shall not vanish from the face of
the earth. And there's somebody in their thirties who actually
gives a shit about it and has talent and wants
(14:56):
to stay here and not work for Twitter or whatever. Right,
she's worth fighting for. Right, And we see Vivian railing
against this idea of clickbait and pushing back on the
Me to Wall Street story because she's saying, this isn't
the story we want to tell. And it's so inspiring
to see her having that interaction with her boss, and
(15:16):
as uncomfortable as it is in the moment, I think
that's what gives them the respect for her ultimately. And
an episode three, speaking of authority, we see the very
funny scene with Vivian and Anna's characters shopping for underwear
for Anna, and Maud says, Paul was an intern when
I was writing cover stories. Do you know what you
(15:38):
tell Paul? Tell him the sun? And Maud really is
this wonderful mentor figure for Vivian throughout as the other
woman in this scenario. And Anna tell me, how are
you playing that scene with Vivian? And and first of all,
how much fun were those moments? Well, I don't know
how much fun that was. I think our call that
day was something like three am, because you know, they
(16:01):
had to shut down Burgdorfs, had to get to Burgdorfs,
had to very expense if you can imagine, and get
it done before you know, whatever time that the people
come to Burgdorf survivor six hundred dollar purses or hundred
prants or whatever, so there was that. You know. Um,
I think that somebody like Maud, I mean, let's face it,
(16:23):
she probably really had to fight her way into this
business from the very beginning. I think about somebody who
I met on that campaign trail that I told you about,
the late gent Eiffel, right, who was at the New
York Times, and then you know, on TV and stuff
like that, and you know, let's face it, you know,
we are the people who are not in hair and makeup.
(16:44):
We're not the glam journalists on television. All three of
us were the people who had to fight to get
the story. And you know, I think those type of
journalists don't like authority anyway, because part of journalism is
to question authority and to question power. I really not
to go for power, so you bring that into everything,
(17:04):
and you know, I just want her to know that
this guy is just like a fly that you've got
to learn how to swat him away stand up for yourself.
And it's hard too, because I think, especially a character
like Vivian who's a woman, we are raised to respect authority.
We are raised to not speak too much, we are
raised to oh that's my assignment okay, thank you. And
it's just as a woman who's been in this business,
(17:24):
it's so fun to see her say no, no, no,
this is the story that is worth my time. And
that's what I think is such a great takeaway from Vivian.
And I know we've all been in that situation where
we have to fight just telling someone, trust me, this
is worth telling. And I'm sure as actors too, you've
had specially Terry if you've made a movie, anyone who's
had to sell a project, and it's all your plays.
(17:44):
It's a lot of convincing, right, I mean, just showing
up for an audition, you have to look like you're
having a good time, but what you're really there too
is to embody convincing. For me, I hate auditioning. I
don't know about these two gentlemen. But it's enduring the thing.
It's endurance death, yes, aproposal that the actor uh Emmett Walsh.
(18:10):
I was on my first job as an actor and
very young. It was a mini series and I was
playing the main person because I just got it was
like the lotto, and he came up to me and
we were going through, you know, all of the pre production.
He goes, what are you playing kids? And I said, oh,
I'm playing this guy, you know. And he goes, oh,
you're the guy, and he goes, did you have to audition?
(18:33):
And I said, yeah, I did audition. He goes, that's
what I called dancing on the head of a pin.
I always thought of it that way. Afterwards. It's such
a delicate thing to maintain and not get discouraged and
keep wanting to show up. You have a hard job,
so just know that we acknowledge that. Well, it's not
hard though, when you're when you get the job right,
(18:54):
Jeff writing, Yeah, yeah, we had nothing but fun. I
think it shows. I mean I look at it, and
usually I can't look at anything where my body shows up,
But in this case, I just remembered the fun of
the day so much. And when we crack up on camera,
we were cracking up, you know. We we cracked each
(19:15):
other up a lot, and that was rare and and fun.
So it wasn't it like work? Oh yeah, that was
that is a rarer, I mean somewhat rare. And they look, look,
we're grateful for all sorts of work we've gotten to do,
and you love it and it is your fuel, but
this one is really kind of rare in like that
(19:37):
was all fun, right. So, something that's come up online
among fans of inventing Anna is this idea of Vivian's
colleagues being so supportive of her in environments where we're
so used to people being at each other's throats and
being very competitive, And there's a great moment where she
comes back to the office and you really see them
(19:58):
kind of surrounding her with this you know, virtual hug
where they really feel protective of her. What Dalovan Lamb
gave an interview about you. America Investigative is doing a
show about bad journalism, and one of the subjects is
you maybe I'm fine, Hey, it's okay, fine, I um,
(20:24):
I am fine. You want to see the promo? Get
it over with. Is it a generational thing for maybe
the older veteran folks to feel more supportive and protective
of the younger folks or is this something that you
feel sort of baked into this environment. What are your thoughts, Terry,
I would say it's baked into the environment. I don't
think it's anything generational. What's generational is that we don't
(20:48):
have to be political about what we like and what
we don't like, and we like her. We like that
she's banished. We like that she's found mout. We like
that she's passionate, driven, that she's got a story she
wants to tell. She's being told absolutely not, you're not
doing it. Move over to the other story. And she's saying,
(21:12):
I'm not going to do that. That's our kind of person.
We love. She's banished, right, I mean, so there's already
there's something about us that's not normal, right, I mean,
we were banished, and I think we protect her because
she needs protecting. We know, Paul, and we swooped down
(21:36):
as the you know, the larger eagles or whatever and
fend off predators. Besides, we do have generational old school values.
And so there's this weird you know, like, my character
is a complete misogynist, you know, really, is that how
you read her? Really? Oh? He's yes, that's how the
(21:58):
other Scriberians read him to. He's constantly talking about how
she's pregnant and what are we going to do about that?
You know, the baby's gonna come shoot it out of
her ruchie or whatever. He says. He's protective for that
reason too, because you know, he doesn't think she can
do both things at once or something. He's just had
no exposure. He's just been in foreign lands around gun
(22:19):
fire all his life. And in that same episode, um Anna,
you have the fantastic line where you say, we didn't
want to inscribe area, but you're here and you're not
a revolting millennial. I have to imagine that people specifically
thirty five and older, forty and older. There isn't anyone
who's been in a workplace who hasn't had to adjust
with a new generation coming in, right, right, right, First
(22:40):
of all, I just loved the way what Terry just said.
We love that she's banished. That's number one. Number two,
she does not completely disrespect us, no right, and so
I think you know, our job thinking about the way
Terry said that is to make Criberia the best part
(23:01):
of the room, to make it cool. And she's a
good person to have a long for that. She has
all the right criteria. It's a form of rebellion. Right
to love that which is banished and create a space
of love in that and care in there, you know,
which is the antithesis of what Paul does. Don't go
(23:24):
anywhere there's more behind the scenes of inventing Anna right
after this. Okay, ready to hear more. You know what's
(23:47):
so interesting though, These banished individuals are really what gives
these magazines their cachet and credibility. So it's sad in
a sense that these people would ever feel banished when
they are really at the heart of these organizations. Does
that feel familiar to you in in terms of theater
and the work that you've done. Oh my god. A
(24:07):
playwright that Terry and I grew up with, Lanford Wilson,
may he rest in beautiful theater piece. But he has
one of one of his striking plays called Balman Gilead,
and it's a collection of people he called hustas, transvestite,
small town crooks, most people not able to rub two
(24:31):
nickels together, all moving in and out of an all
night diner. And he gave one phrase describing the whole
milieu is going These are losers who refuse to lose.
And when Terry and I think of the things that
(24:52):
we have been drawn to for years, and it could
be John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath, it could be
bomb and Gilliad, it could be mice and men. It
could be all sorts of all sorts, of different kinds
of expression. A commonality are three legged dogs. The human
condition of while you are, you are endangered, um and
(25:18):
yet you still are finding some way to survive, you know.
And I think we've always had great empathy for that, right,
And it's just a it's a matter of we've always
just been attracted to the stories of the of the peripheral.
Laurie Metcalfalan said that we tell the story of the
person that you crossed the street to avoid one way
(25:40):
or another. We've been infected with that. And I think
we found a soulmate in Anna that we understood this
being on the far end, away from everything somebody else
might have been offended by, as a kind of a
safe zone, a safe zone to do whatever we want
(26:01):
whenever we want it, and to show up whenever we want.
You know, Anna, did you have something to add? I
love that idea of the people who refuse to lose.
And I'm very all my workers about the disenfranchise. And
I like to look at the world upside down of
a dramatist. I like catastrophe. I think that most people
(26:23):
walking around are performing and don't know it, and so
I'm very interested in the unperformed, like the person who
refuses to perform the bourgeois of the middle class. And
I'm attracted to suffering not for suffering sake, but I
think that sometimes people who really have a drama or
a crisis in their own life have something very beautiful
(26:44):
to share. So I always want to be around to
be able to hear that. People who would be screaming
something from the mountaintop, whatever it is, I just want
to be passing by when that happens, because so much
of the rest of it is about being obedient. On
that note, the perfect segue to what I wanted to
talk about next, which is how scarb Area feels about
(27:04):
Anna delb And we see their feelings about her start
with kind of like oh whatever, this cookie party girl,
and you almost see them getting caught up and supporting
her in a sense and liking her, Yeah, sticking it
to the man sort of antics. Kind of stole a
fucking jet. Listen, Anna never paid no card, no wire
(27:26):
or nothing. She actually stole a plane. Latest pressing charges
and working with the d A. They're saying she scamming.
How do you steal a plane. I can't scam an
extra legum seat from Celta, but this kid is scamming
a private jet to Omaha. Kudos, Jeff, Tell me how
you felt about that. There's an aspect of this story.
(27:48):
Part of it is arguably an indictment of, Oh my god,
the environment we've created where someone is just gonna fake it,
fake it, fake it, and be all about appearance, and
be all about a roll of one hundred dollar bills
(28:10):
and be all about what am I wearing and what
purse do I have? And what occasion am I showing
up to and how many selfies get on Instagram and
that edit. And at the same time there was this
undeniable scale had a very interesting plan. She speaks, how
many languages, she does, what and what she convinced how
(28:35):
many thirty, forty, fifty, sixty and seventy year olds deep
into their own niche of profession, whether it's in art collecting,
yacht collecting, real estate, private wealth management, d D D
d D banks that this was a good idea. And
you go, wait a competitor to Soho House based on
(28:56):
this and based on that and based on it, that's
a good business plan. So in a sense Scarberius, the
sort of a kinship with her. Yeah, there's something that
you know, there's something about it. There's a duality to Anna,
and it's exemplified in uh in the final episode in
the trial stuff where Todd says, look, I know there's
(29:20):
Frank Sinatra fans here. You do realize that he staged
faintings and ambulance is showing up and this and that
to create the mystique of his genius and terry. Do
you think that your characters were rooting for Anna to
(29:40):
be found innocent, the idea that someone like her could
get away with this. It's almost like they were waiting
to hear the score of their favorite sports team as
those slacks were coming through. Guilty, Hotel guilty, w Hotel guilty,
Dan Hotel guilty. Well that's them, and they were really
(30:05):
let down by the results. Well, they were hoping against hope.
You know, the more you learn about someone, the more
you know. And they got into her childhood, they knew,
they knew that there were scars that created the person,
but they also knew, you know, the patriarchy are out
(30:25):
there with other people's money all the time. It's kind
of easy for them. It wasn't at all easy for her.
So yes, my character personally was definitely rooting for her
to get off because she was an anarchist and her
eccentricity only made money people trust her more. How brilliant
(30:47):
you know, everyone still wants to know. They can watch
the entire thing and then they go, no, wait, how
did she have all those hundred dollar bills? I mean,
it's explained, but it's kind of hard to absorb absolutely
exactly how she convinced people that she had the money.
But tipping is a very good way to make people
think you have a lot of money. I'd love to
(31:10):
talk about a scene that Jeff and Anna Klumsky have
in the bathroom, seeing how conflicted Vivian is about betraying
her scribe area friends for the better Office landed off
for me in office next to Paul's a girl movie,
a scrape area. That's the goal, Vivian, it was mine
(31:40):
the white dress, animar h took it out of my closet.
Lou yep and Jeff, In terms of the prep that
you did with Anna Klumsky, it sounds like you really
worked that scene a lot. What what kind of conversations
did you have with her about that scene. I know
was impressed with all freelance project work that you throw
(32:08):
yourself into. It has this very often inevitable depression at
the end of it. I think in the scene she
says something like, what do I do now? Sort of
that high of the story had dissipated. She's had her baby,
these two things that she was giving to really at
(32:29):
the same time. Yeah, and it's lovely. It's got lovely
little levels and not that many words. I think writing wise,
you know that that she says in a few different ways.
I promised her fame I delivered to a great extent,
and I knew that one real possibility was that fame
(32:54):
is gonna land you in jail and lead me to
an office and to a bigger salary and to everything
I want. But in the age of influencer, fame is money.
I think she's struggling with that equation. You know, something
(33:18):
just came to me, And this is actually perfect for
my final question, which I'd love for Anna to answer.
This idea of an influencer. I think this term has
become so negative, right. I think there is such a
thing as positive influence, and what we see Vivian fighting
for throughout the show is the preservation of grammar and
(33:39):
stories and the written word. So if we see her
as almost like an influencer in her own right, Anna,
what do you think we can do as a culture
to make sure that we preserve storytelling, we preserve the
written word. That yes, Instagram can exist and TikTok can exist,
but someone like you can still write your plays and
(33:59):
make sure they get made and that people see this
and appreciate this EON's old art form that is so important. Well,
I think that Shonda Rhymes is one of the world's
most influential storytellers, and I think that the storytelling speaks
for itself in this project, And I think Shonda's history
(34:24):
of storytelling and how her stories have affected people and
have affected our culture speaks for itself. It's Shonda and
her ability to bring around her great storytellers is in
and of itself something that's out there that I think,
whether people are completely aware of it or not, they
(34:44):
understand what it means to be attracted to a story.
You know, going from a friend of mine who was
a former Melissa had a former U S attorney who
was just addicted to this to Janelle, who works in
my doctor's office, who I called to speak to my doctor, said,
(35:06):
everybody's watching it. You know that that this story has
that kind of appeal that people are addicted to a
great story. And you couldn't have told this story in
whatever number of characters on Twitter. So I think that
that has an influence right there. It is so beautifully,
said Anna, And such a wonderful way to wrap this
(35:27):
up and really put a nice bow on it. And Terry,
did you have anything to add Well? The only thing
I was thinking about you because I've been thinking about
it ever since somebody one of one of us said
Greek chorus. And I've always loved Greek choruses. And I
think we were given the exposition of this story. We
(35:48):
are the audience in a way, learning things and sending
out that information. I can tell you as an actor
that usually exposition is presented in an awkward, clumsy way,
and especially on television, it's difficult. It's hard to remember
because you're not invested in it's just information that has
(36:08):
to get out there. I think Shanda did that really well.
And I think back to what the origins of Greek
chorus was and it was the dithorems, right, that were
these hymns that big masses of people did, and it
was all for Diane Issus at the time. And then
Thespis came in and walked out and joined the play
(36:31):
from the chorus, and that became tragedy, you know, So
so now Greek choruses were involved with tragedy. I think
there's a lot of both of those things in this story.
You know, all of her Folly and Oliver Champagne and
all this stuff, and then all of this tragedy and
we were there for all of it. That the evolution
of our characters and the chorus part of it, I
(36:53):
think had much to do with that. And I want
to just add one little tiny thing, which I think
is either Shanda's work, Linda's work, Betsy Bear's work, Somebody's work,
to give exposition to the three of us who have
been around so long. I felt of us like jazz
musicians really because of the opportunity for me to work
(37:16):
with people of this this skilled is that the exposition
felt less like trying to sing the song we all know, right,
the exposition song, and then and then and then. And
that's why that's why is spinning it off of these
two felt like being what I would imagine it would
(37:37):
be like to be in a jam session. And so
that's a beautiful thing about this medium, this visual media,
that there's the story and then there are all of
these other people who come in to make it work
a certain way. I love that well. I want to
thank all of you for being here and letting us
fan out over scribe area, because I have to say,
(37:58):
I can see these kids get in their own show someday.
So let's let's keep that talk alive. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Oh my god, that would be a gift. There's a yes,
there's a there's a line in the Arthur Miller play
The Price where Solomon, you know, he says, oh, please
just come back another time, and Solomon goes, if I
should live? That's how I feel. Well. May we all
(38:22):
live and thrive and stay well. And again, thank you
all for your time. I know you're very busy, so
we really appreciate it. Thank you, Bye bye, nice to
be together. Thank you, Stacy, thank you so much for listening.
Next week, we hear from Emmy winning costume designer Lynn
(38:42):
Powlow about how she recreated Anna Delvie's signature looks for television.
Anna was a chameleon, and she used every tool she
could to become whatever was acceptable, whoever was acceptable in
a given situation. If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, Share
with your friends, rate, and leave us a review. All
(39:03):
that good stuff. And if you haven't finished binging Shonda
Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that. We
don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing Anna the
Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman,
Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Nicholas Harder and I'm your host Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing
(39:34):
Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland
Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to Inventing
Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the making
of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your host,
Stacy Wilson Hunt, and with me today are three legends
(00:21):
of the theater world, Anna Davie Smith, Terry Kenny and
Jeff Perry, who play scarberreas Maud, Barry and Lou In
case you've forgotten, Scriberria is the nickname of the back
corner of Manhattan Magazine, whereas Vivian says, the bosses quote
send the old writers to die. But these irascible, hilarious
characters not only end up being key to vivian success,
(00:42):
They've also become some of the series biggest fan favorites.
Welcome everyone. I have to say I'm not supposed to
play favorites in this podcast, but I am particularly giddy
about having the three of you on a show. Just
(01:02):
today on Twitter, somebody tweeted me and Shawnda and said
I would totally watch a show just with the scribe
area people. So I'm just saying, keep it, keep it
as an option, and I would love to know how
has the fan reaction to scribe area felt to you, Jeff,
have you been hearing any rumblings of fandom on your end?
Oh my god, A lot of friends and family have
(01:25):
chimed in with big love on the scribe area, miss
of the shows and how much of it was shocked
that I was employed and they were trying to encourage
encourage me whatever. But but anyway, I said, Seanna, it's
just been such a gift man won And what are
(01:49):
people particularly liking? What have you heard from people about
what resonates so much with these characters? Hey, my two cents,
I want to hear from men and tear um. From
the very first reading, I felt kind of audience e
of this is a really fun conception, something about this
(02:10):
little Greek chorus of old people sent to journalism Siberia.
I think Anna took issue with you using the word
old just now, by the way, sorry sorry I was
the only old one. Sorry veteran let's say veteran um.
It just felt like it really worked off the page,
(02:31):
and oh, this is gonna be so fun to be
able to do. And then when I heard it was
with Anna da Vere, who I had been a fan
of for years and years and years, and then that
it was my boyhood buddy, Terry Kenney. I was like,
oh my god, I can't believe it. Yeah. I got
to gush to people too of did you know, because
(02:54):
he usually was friends or family have known me for
fifty years? Did you know that this is Terry and
my pretty much first camera work ever in our decades.
I was actually going to bring that up, which I
found to be a stunning discovery. Terry, walk me through this.
How is it possible you've never shared the screen with
your old buddy? I don't know. I mean our friends
(03:15):
making movies. You think they'd put us both in there
like Gary, you know, put put me in a small role.
But there where was Jeff? Not nowhere to be found.
I did small bit of trivia direct Jeff in my
first feature. I did a feature and Jeff had a
really nice role in it. But that's about it. And
I would love for those who don't know your storied
history as co founders of Steppenwolf, Terry, tell me when
(03:38):
you first met Jeff and how that relationship grew into
this venerable institution in Chicago. I was at Illinois State
University and Jeff came in in an orientation and he
had really messed up hair and dirty glasses and a
flannel shirt. I just thought, I like this guy. I
just I just saw him. I was in class, was
(04:00):
supposed to be paying attention, but I just zoned in
on him as a friend. And it was turned out
to be true, because he he showed up the following
year and maybe the first day we just connected and
he came over to our house and I just think
he never left. We were together the rest of college,
(04:22):
you know, just hanging out. That's how I got to
know Gary through him. And this is Gary Sinise for
those who are wondering who Gary is here? Oh yes,
Gary Sinise. After my sophomore year in Jeff's freshman he said,
would you like to come live in my parents basement
and then do Rosenkrats and Gilling sn or dead. I said, yeah, sure,
and so we we did that. We did it in
(04:43):
a Unitarian church and that was our first step in
wolf play. It was two years before we started the
theater with our college friends. I love that. That is
so inspiring. And speaking of theater, Anna herself a staple
of theater. What were you doing at the time these
fellows were doing their college antics in the basement, etcetera.
(05:03):
First of all, I just have to say that I
didn't know the story about those college antics until being
with these two gentlemen in in hair and makeup. And
I tell it all the time because I'm still a teacher.
I teach at your university, and I just say, you know,
just like give them a basement and have it opened.
(05:25):
Isn't that also the case y'all? That it was like
you could just go into the theater all day or night,
just leave the door open, and something's gonna happen. Because
they made Stepan will End, they made remarkable careers, like
the whole group of them. So I do tell that
story all the time myself. I don't know what year
was that, three four, five six, Well, I was at
(05:47):
the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco studying, and uh,
actually they did give me the keys. I have to say,
the friends of a CT, who were these sort of
you know, women wearing Papa galos and khaki skirts and
doing all good things for the theater and probably raising money,
(06:08):
they did give me the keys to their office because
I didn't I didn't have a typewriter, and I could
go in there and use the typewriter until they arrived
at ten o'clock in the morning. So I did have
a version of that which allowed me to write my
first play at a CT early in the morning with
those keys. I love that. All we need is a basement, right, Okay,
(06:29):
you just need keys somewhere. Jeff, I'd love to talk
to you about your visit to New York Magazine in
preparation to play this part. And Jessica Pressler, of course,
the amazing journalist who wrote the piece that inspired the show.
She gave an interview recently where she talked about your visit,
and she said this quote. When Jeff arrives, Mark Jacobson,
(06:49):
who is a legend, looks at him and says, the
great thing about being a journalist is that you aren't
impressed by anybody. Unfortunately, Jeff didn't seem to be offended
that he wasn't the center of attention. I love this
because I've been a journalist for twenty years. There's something
so wonderful about having to be stone faced about everything
you see in here throughout your day, because if you're affected,
(07:10):
you really can't do your job. Properly. I'm wondering what
did you learn from Mark and also being there that
day that helped inform your character. Yes, so look at
here's quick notes that are from January, which must have
been right around the time that Jessica did me this
gift of come with your little tape recorder and dada, dada.
(07:31):
You're paid for what you're right, so you can go
weeks telling your editors you don't have a story that
you love at the moment. Like a baseball team, you
all you might all have different contracts. You have a
difficult dance of getting people to talk having explained your angle,
but the story can change on you. You have numerous
irons in the fire because you don't know which stories
are gonna pay it out. You get assignments and you
(07:53):
pitch your own. You get typecasts as a journalist, as
a writer for good or ill artistically, just as actors
do based on successes. You sometimes get assigned stuff in
a colleague's wheelhouse because they're busy and you're not. Usually
help each other with your roll at ex contacts if
asked by fellow witer writers like documentary creators, you've fallen
(08:17):
in love at some early age with nonfiction, with listening
to other human stories, you learn, sometimes the hard way
and sometimes slowly, that listening is much more valuable to
your task than talking. You love research, detection, and the
hard part is usually putting that research into the form
(08:37):
of a story. The rewriting, the back and forth of
editor notes is relatively an easier process. If you get
flowers from a subject, you've probably not done your job.
That is so brilliant. So those were the notes, and
Terry and Anna, what felt familiar to the two of you?
(08:59):
About what Jeff shared in terms of how it relates
to your craft as actors. There's a lot of overlap here, right,
tell me, Terry, what felt familiar to you? I mean,
it's a highly competitive thing, and it said the pay scales,
you know, you don't know what anybody else is making.
Your status gets uh interrupted by what you haven't done
(09:20):
for a while. Your type cast to write certain stories.
If you write about glamorous people, they make you do that,
and you may have a think piece on something else
you want to do, but they're not very interested in that.
What you did last is usually the offers you get next.
It's similar with acting, and it becomes important if you
(09:41):
want to change it up, to turn those down if
you can, and then do something completely different the next time.
I love that. And you really do have to assert
yourself to and say I can do more than what
you think I can. That's what really resonated with me
and watching the show. It was having to remind your bosses,
(10:02):
I'm not just one thing, right. And Anna, I know
you've actually done a fair amount of interviewing in your job,
in your many capacities as an academic. Tell me what
you knew about interviewing as an art form, and tell
me what you learned about this craft from preparing to
play this character. Well, I actually traveled on the I
(10:23):
was hired by Newsweek to travel on the Clinton presidential
campaign and on the Dole campaign in nineties six, and
so I traveled with the press corps, and uh, I
got a chance to, you know, meet a lot of
journalists and just live that life, which is very hard,
especially following a campaign. You really don't you know in
(10:45):
that way, it's like acting. I mean you're kind of
like in captivity to production, right as somebody gave me
the advice, you know, p and when you can because
you don't know when you're gonna be able to do
it again. And I had a very good friend, Elizabeth
Knew For the Lady Elizabeth Knew for who was a
war correspondent and she covered Rwanda and Bosnia Kosovo and
(11:06):
was actually killed in Iraq. Terrible. I'm so sorry. One
of the things that I felt about Elizabeth when we
became friends was just okay, so she can sleep anywhere
and eat anything right, And it's that sort of toughness
that I thought about in creating my character for this.
(11:27):
But I would say that for all of us, you know,
we're after the story to be a part of the
story somehow. That's what we all have in common with journalists,
I would say actors in journalists. I love that. So
story is really at the core of both of these crofts. Yeah, okay,
please stand by for these quick messages from our sponsors,
(12:01):
and we're back. I'd love to just start walking through
some scenes because there's so much to work with and
each of you have such great insights to share. So
I'd love to start with episode one and we get
to see how scribe area relates to authority. You went
(12:24):
to Rikers and it answered your letter. You went to rikers.
Yes you went rogue, Good girl, fight the power of woman,
keep your voices, dond your bones for bread. When you
catch his hand the stone, he's not gonna catch you.
Stop pumping your pillages and get over here and help them.
And that really tells us from episode one, Oh, is
(12:46):
this why they're inscribe area? Because they don't play nice?
Do they not like to kind of play the politics
of nice employee to their bosses? So tell me, Terry,
how do you think this scene sets us up? Well?
I think we're being into deduced as people that have
been banished to the periphery in our own little cubical
(13:06):
world because a they can't fire us. We all have Pulitzers,
and secondly, we have no fox left to give. We
don't answer to anybody, you know, and the suits that
are coming down and giving us these bullshit assignments that
we don't want to even do. We don't have to
(13:28):
respect them. We don't have to respect them to their
face or behind their backs. So I think that's what
it sets up is a group of people that, you know,
this young woman who was a successful writer and maybe
made a mistake is banished to Scriberia and we are
immediately attracted to her rogue energy, right. And it's interesting
(13:51):
because Vivian's character, she's kind of nestled between the generations.
She's not in full Scriberian mode, but she's not one
of the new bees. And it's almost like is having
this middle career crisis. Jeff, how do you think that
this scene sort of establishes that for us? Yeah, I
mean we're in an age where long form journalism, and
(14:13):
in fact all of journalism, is facing such existential threat.
But just look at long form journalism where to exaggerate
only slightly, only the Twitter twelve words or whatever the
whatever it's maximum is, you know, can get anybody's attention.
(14:34):
And I think I always assume that the three of us,
in our own way felt such you know, sympathy, love, passion, um, God,
damn it, it shall not vanish from the face of
the earth. And there's somebody in their thirties who actually
gives a shit about it and has talent and wants
(14:56):
to stay here and not work for Twitter or whatever. Right,
she's worth fighting for. Right, And we see Vivian railing
against this idea of clickbait and pushing back on the
Me to Wall Street story because she's saying, this isn't
the story we want to tell. And it's so inspiring
to see her having that interaction with her boss, and
(15:16):
as uncomfortable as it is in the moment, I think
that's what gives them the respect for her ultimately. And
an episode three, speaking of authority, we see the very
funny scene with Vivian and Anna's characters shopping for underwear
for Anna, and Maud says, Paul was an intern when
I was writing cover stories. Do you know what you
(15:38):
tell Paul? Tell him the sun? And Maud really is
this wonderful mentor figure for Vivian throughout as the other
woman in this scenario. And Anna tell me, how are
you playing that scene with Vivian? And and first of all,
how much fun were those moments? Well, I don't know
how much fun that was. I think our call that
day was something like three am, because you know, they
(16:01):
had to shut down Burgdorfs, had to get to Burgdorfs,
had to very expense if you can imagine, and get
it done before you know, whatever time that the people
come to Burgdorf survivor six hundred dollar purses or hundred
prants or whatever, so there was that. You know. Um,
I think that somebody like Maud, I mean, let's face it,
(16:23):
she probably really had to fight her way into this
business from the very beginning. I think about somebody who
I met on that campaign trail that I told you about,
the late gent Eiffel, right, who was at the New
York Times, and then you know, on TV and stuff
like that, and you know, let's face it, you know,
we are the people who are not in hair and makeup.
(16:44):
We're not the glam journalists on television. All three of
us were the people who had to fight to get
the story. And you know, I think those type of
journalists don't like authority anyway, because part of journalism is
to question authority and to question power. I really not
to go for power, so you bring that into everything,
(17:04):
and you know, I just want her to know that
this guy is just like a fly that you've got
to learn how to swat him away stand up for yourself.
And it's hard too, because I think, especially a character
like Vivian who's a woman, we are raised to respect authority.
We are raised to not speak too much, we are
raised to oh that's my assignment okay, thank you. And
it's just as a woman who's been in this business,
(17:24):
it's so fun to see her say no, no, no,
this is the story that is worth my time. And
that's what I think is such a great takeaway from Vivian.
And I know we've all been in that situation where
we have to fight just telling someone, trust me, this
is worth telling. And I'm sure as actors too, you've
had specially Terry if you've made a movie, anyone who's
had to sell a project, and it's all your plays.
(17:44):
It's a lot of convincing, right, I mean, just showing
up for an audition, you have to look like you're
having a good time, but what you're really there too
is to embody convincing. For me, I hate auditioning. I
don't know about these two gentlemen. But it's enduring the thing.
It's endurance death, yes, aproposal that the actor uh Emmett Walsh.
(18:10):
I was on my first job as an actor and
very young. It was a mini series and I was
playing the main person because I just got it was
like the lotto, and he came up to me and
we were going through, you know, all of the pre production.
He goes, what are you playing kids? And I said, oh,
I'm playing this guy, you know. And he goes, oh,
you're the guy, and he goes, did you have to audition?
(18:33):
And I said, yeah, I did audition. He goes, that's
what I called dancing on the head of a pin.
I always thought of it that way. Afterwards. It's such
a delicate thing to maintain and not get discouraged and
keep wanting to show up. You have a hard job,
so just know that we acknowledge that. Well, it's not
hard though, when you're when you get the job right,
(18:54):
Jeff writing, Yeah, yeah, we had nothing but fun. I
think it shows. I mean I look at it, and
usually I can't look at anything where my body shows up,
But in this case, I just remembered the fun of
the day so much. And when we crack up on camera,
we were cracking up, you know. We we cracked each
(19:15):
other up a lot, and that was rare and and fun.
So it wasn't it like work? Oh yeah, that was
that is a rarer, I mean somewhat rare. And they look, look,
we're grateful for all sorts of work we've gotten to do,
and you love it and it is your fuel, but
this one is really kind of rare in like that
(19:37):
was all fun, right. So, something that's come up online
among fans of inventing Anna is this idea of Vivian's
colleagues being so supportive of her in environments where we're
so used to people being at each other's throats and
being very competitive, And there's a great moment where she
comes back to the office and you really see them
(19:58):
kind of surrounding her with this you know, virtual hug
where they really feel protective of her. What Dalovan Lamb
gave an interview about you. America Investigative is doing a
show about bad journalism, and one of the subjects is
you maybe I'm fine, Hey, it's okay, fine, I um,
(20:24):
I am fine. You want to see the promo? Get
it over with. Is it a generational thing for maybe
the older veteran folks to feel more supportive and protective
of the younger folks or is this something that you
feel sort of baked into this environment. What are your thoughts, Terry,
I would say it's baked into the environment. I don't
think it's anything generational. What's generational is that we don't
(20:48):
have to be political about what we like and what
we don't like, and we like her. We like that
she's banished. We like that she's found mout. We like
that she's passionate, driven, that she's got a story she
wants to tell. She's being told absolutely not, you're not
doing it. Move over to the other story. And she's saying,
(21:12):
I'm not going to do that. That's our kind of person.
We love. She's banished, right, I mean, so there's already
there's something about us that's not normal, right, I mean,
we were banished, and I think we protect her because
she needs protecting. We know, Paul, and we swooped down
(21:36):
as the you know, the larger eagles or whatever and
fend off predators. Besides, we do have generational old school values.
And so there's this weird you know, like, my character
is a complete misogynist, you know, really, is that how
you read her? Really? Oh? He's yes, that's how the
(21:58):
other Scriberians read him to. He's constantly talking about how
she's pregnant and what are we going to do about that?
You know, the baby's gonna come shoot it out of
her ruchie or whatever. He says. He's protective for that
reason too, because you know, he doesn't think she can
do both things at once or something. He's just had
no exposure. He's just been in foreign lands around gun
(22:19):
fire all his life. And in that same episode, um Anna,
you have the fantastic line where you say, we didn't
want to inscribe area, but you're here and you're not
a revolting millennial. I have to imagine that people specifically
thirty five and older, forty and older. There isn't anyone
who's been in a workplace who hasn't had to adjust
with a new generation coming in, right, right, right, First
(22:40):
of all, I just loved the way what Terry just said.
We love that she's banished. That's number one. Number two,
she does not completely disrespect us, no right, and so
I think you know, our job thinking about the way
Terry said that is to make Criberia the best part
(23:01):
of the room, to make it cool. And she's a
good person to have a long for that. She has
all the right criteria. It's a form of rebellion. Right
to love that which is banished and create a space
of love in that and care in there, you know,
which is the antithesis of what Paul does. Don't go
(23:24):
anywhere there's more behind the scenes of inventing Anna right
after this. Okay, ready to hear more. You know what's
(23:47):
so interesting though, These banished individuals are really what gives
these magazines their cachet and credibility. So it's sad in
a sense that these people would ever feel banished when
they are really at the heart of these organizations. Does
that feel familiar to you in in terms of theater
and the work that you've done. Oh my god. A
(24:07):
playwright that Terry and I grew up with, Lanford Wilson,
may he rest in beautiful theater piece. But he has
one of one of his striking plays called Balman Gilead,
and it's a collection of people he called hustas, transvestite,
small town crooks, most people not able to rub two
(24:31):
nickels together, all moving in and out of an all
night diner. And he gave one phrase describing the whole
milieu is going These are losers who refuse to lose.
And when Terry and I think of the things that
(24:52):
we have been drawn to for years, and it could
be John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath, it could be
bomb and Gilliad, it could be mice and men. It
could be all sorts of all sorts, of different kinds
of expression. A commonality are three legged dogs. The human
condition of while you are, you are endangered, um and
(25:18):
yet you still are finding some way to survive, you know.
And I think we've always had great empathy for that, right,
And it's just a it's a matter of we've always
just been attracted to the stories of the of the peripheral.
Laurie Metcalfalan said that we tell the story of the
person that you crossed the street to avoid one way
(25:40):
or another. We've been infected with that. And I think
we found a soulmate in Anna that we understood this
being on the far end, away from everything somebody else
might have been offended by, as a kind of a
safe zone, a safe zone to do whatever we want
(26:01):
whenever we want it, and to show up whenever we want.
You know, Anna, did you have something to add? I
love that idea of the people who refuse to lose.
And I'm very all my workers about the disenfranchise. And
I like to look at the world upside down of
a dramatist. I like catastrophe. I think that most people
(26:23):
walking around are performing and don't know it, and so
I'm very interested in the unperformed, like the person who
refuses to perform the bourgeois of the middle class. And
I'm attracted to suffering not for suffering sake, but I
think that sometimes people who really have a drama or
a crisis in their own life have something very beautiful
(26:44):
to share. So I always want to be around to
be able to hear that. People who would be screaming
something from the mountaintop, whatever it is, I just want
to be passing by when that happens, because so much
of the rest of it is about being obedient. On
that note, the perfect segue to what I wanted to
talk about next, which is how scarb Area feels about
(27:04):
Anna delb And we see their feelings about her start
with kind of like oh whatever, this cookie party girl,
and you almost see them getting caught up and supporting
her in a sense and liking her, Yeah, sticking it
to the man sort of antics. Kind of stole a
fucking jet. Listen, Anna never paid no card, no wire
(27:26):
or nothing. She actually stole a plane. Latest pressing charges
and working with the d A. They're saying she scamming.
How do you steal a plane. I can't scam an
extra legum seat from Celta, but this kid is scamming
a private jet to Omaha. Kudos, Jeff, Tell me how
you felt about that. There's an aspect of this story.
(27:48):
Part of it is arguably an indictment of, Oh my god,
the environment we've created where someone is just gonna fake it,
fake it, fake it, and be all about appearance, and
be all about a roll of one hundred dollar bills
(28:10):
and be all about what am I wearing and what
purse do I have? And what occasion am I showing
up to and how many selfies get on Instagram and
that edit. And at the same time there was this
undeniable scale had a very interesting plan. She speaks, how
many languages, she does, what and what she convinced how
(28:35):
many thirty, forty, fifty, sixty and seventy year olds deep
into their own niche of profession, whether it's in art collecting,
yacht collecting, real estate, private wealth management, d D D
d D banks that this was a good idea. And
you go, wait a competitor to Soho House based on
(28:56):
this and based on that and based on it, that's
a good business plan. So in a sense Scarberius, the
sort of a kinship with her. Yeah, there's something that
you know, there's something about it. There's a duality to Anna,
and it's exemplified in uh in the final episode in
the trial stuff where Todd says, look, I know there's
(29:20):
Frank Sinatra fans here. You do realize that he staged
faintings and ambulance is showing up and this and that
to create the mystique of his genius and terry. Do
you think that your characters were rooting for Anna to
(29:40):
be found innocent, the idea that someone like her could
get away with this. It's almost like they were waiting
to hear the score of their favorite sports team as
those slacks were coming through. Guilty, Hotel guilty, w Hotel guilty,
Dan Hotel guilty. Well that's them, and they were really
(30:05):
let down by the results. Well, they were hoping against hope.
You know, the more you learn about someone, the more
you know. And they got into her childhood, they knew,
they knew that there were scars that created the person,
but they also knew, you know, the patriarchy are out
(30:25):
there with other people's money all the time. It's kind
of easy for them. It wasn't at all easy for her.
So yes, my character personally was definitely rooting for her
to get off because she was an anarchist and her
eccentricity only made money people trust her more. How brilliant
(30:47):
you know, everyone still wants to know. They can watch
the entire thing and then they go, no, wait, how
did she have all those hundred dollar bills? I mean,
it's explained, but it's kind of hard to absorb absolutely
exactly how she convinced people that she had the money.
But tipping is a very good way to make people
think you have a lot of money. I'd love to
(31:10):
talk about a scene that Jeff and Anna Klumsky have
in the bathroom, seeing how conflicted Vivian is about betraying
her scribe area friends for the better Office landed off
for me in office next to Paul's a girl movie,
a scrape area. That's the goal, Vivian, it was mine
(31:40):
the white dress, animar h took it out of my closet.
Lou yep and Jeff, In terms of the prep that
you did with Anna Klumsky, it sounds like you really
worked that scene a lot. What what kind of conversations
did you have with her about that scene. I know
was impressed with all freelance project work that you throw
(32:08):
yourself into. It has this very often inevitable depression at
the end of it. I think in the scene she
says something like, what do I do now? Sort of
that high of the story had dissipated. She's had her baby,
these two things that she was giving to really at
(32:29):
the same time. Yeah, and it's lovely. It's got lovely
little levels and not that many words. I think writing wise,
you know that that she says in a few different ways.
I promised her fame I delivered to a great extent,
and I knew that one real possibility was that fame
(32:54):
is gonna land you in jail and lead me to
an office and to a bigger salary and to everything
I want. But in the age of influencer, fame is money.
I think she's struggling with that equation. You know, something
(33:18):
just came to me, And this is actually perfect for
my final question, which I'd love for Anna to answer.
This idea of an influencer. I think this term has
become so negative, right. I think there is such a
thing as positive influence, and what we see Vivian fighting
for throughout the show is the preservation of grammar and
(33:39):
stories and the written word. So if we see her
as almost like an influencer in her own right, Anna,
what do you think we can do as a culture
to make sure that we preserve storytelling, we preserve the
written word. That yes, Instagram can exist and TikTok can exist,
but someone like you can still write your plays and
(33:59):
make sure they get made and that people see this
and appreciate this EON's old art form that is so important. Well,
I think that Shonda Rhymes is one of the world's
most influential storytellers, and I think that the storytelling speaks
for itself in this project, And I think Shonda's history
(34:24):
of storytelling and how her stories have affected people and
have affected our culture speaks for itself. It's Shonda and
her ability to bring around her great storytellers is in
and of itself something that's out there that I think,
whether people are completely aware of it or not, they
(34:44):
understand what it means to be attracted to a story.
You know, going from a friend of mine who was
a former Melissa had a former U S attorney who
was just addicted to this to Janelle, who works in
my doctor's office, who I called to speak to my doctor, said,
(35:06):
everybody's watching it. You know that that this story has
that kind of appeal that people are addicted to a
great story. And you couldn't have told this story in
whatever number of characters on Twitter. So I think that
that has an influence right there. It is so beautifully,
said Anna, And such a wonderful way to wrap this
(35:27):
up and really put a nice bow on it. And Terry,
did you have anything to add Well? The only thing
I was thinking about you because I've been thinking about
it ever since somebody one of one of us said
Greek chorus. And I've always loved Greek choruses. And I
think we were given the exposition of this story. We
(35:48):
are the audience in a way, learning things and sending
out that information. I can tell you as an actor
that usually exposition is presented in an awkward, clumsy way,
and especially on television, it's difficult. It's hard to remember
because you're not invested in it's just information that has
(36:08):
to get out there. I think Shanda did that really well.
And I think back to what the origins of Greek
chorus was and it was the dithorems, right, that were
these hymns that big masses of people did, and it
was all for Diane Issus at the time. And then
Thespis came in and walked out and joined the play
(36:31):
from the chorus, and that became tragedy, you know, So
so now Greek choruses were involved with tragedy. I think
there's a lot of both of those things in this story.
You know, all of her Folly and Oliver Champagne and
all this stuff, and then all of this tragedy and
we were there for all of it. That the evolution
of our characters and the chorus part of it, I
(36:53):
think had much to do with that. And I want
to just add one little tiny thing, which I think
is either Shanda's work, Linda's work, Betsy Bear's work, Somebody's work,
to give exposition to the three of us who have
been around so long. I felt of us like jazz
musicians really because of the opportunity for me to work
(37:16):
with people of this this skilled is that the exposition
felt less like trying to sing the song we all know, right,
the exposition song, and then and then and then. And
that's why that's why is spinning it off of these
two felt like being what I would imagine it would
(37:37):
be like to be in a jam session. And so
that's a beautiful thing about this medium, this visual media,
that there's the story and then there are all of
these other people who come in to make it work
a certain way. I love that well. I want to
thank all of you for being here and letting us
fan out over scribe area, because I have to say,
(37:58):
I can see these kids get in their own show someday.
So let's let's keep that talk alive. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Oh my god, that would be a gift. There's a yes,
there's a there's a line in the Arthur Miller play
The Price where Solomon, you know, he says, oh, please
just come back another time, and Solomon goes, if I
should live? That's how I feel. Well. May we all
(38:22):
live and thrive and stay well. And again, thank you
all for your time. I know you're very busy, so
we really appreciate it. Thank you, Bye bye, nice to
be together. Thank you, Stacy, thank you so much for listening.
Next week, we hear from Emmy winning costume designer Lynn
(38:42):
Powlow about how she recreated Anna Delvie's signature looks for television.
Anna was a chameleon, and she used every tool she
could to become whatever was acceptable, whoever was acceptable in
a given situation. If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, Share
with your friends, rate, and leave us a review. All
(39:03):
that good stuff. And if you haven't finished binging Shonda
Lands Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that. We
don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing Anna the
Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman,
Tyler Clang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Nicholas Harder and I'm your host Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing
(39:34):
Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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