Rohingya History and Cuture with Aung Kyaw Moe

James sits down with Aung Kyaw Moe a Rohingya, human rights advocate, and adviser to Myanmar’s NUG.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, everyone, is it could happen here and it's just
James today because today I'm doing a little interview on
the situation for Hinga people. If you're not familiar with
the Hinda genocide, we're not going to cover that in depth,
but we will give a little bit of an overview.
And I'm talking to onkyr Mo, who is Rehinga himself

(00:24):
and who works with the National Unity Government and advising
them about Hina people's human rights. I think the news
cycle hasn't really covered many hinder issues since the Rhinea genocide.
The world's kind of moved on from caring about them,
but they're still in a very difficult situation, and we
want to update you on issues that continue to face
the Rehinga people. I hope you enjoyed the interview. So

(00:45):
today I'm joined by on Kyomo, who's an advisor to
the National Unity Government of Myanma, which people will hopefully
be familiar with. If not, he can explain a little
bit of what that is. He's an advisor to the
Ministry of Human Rights and also a hing Your human
rights activists himself, and so Pai, thank you so much
for joining me, Thank you for having me yeah. So

(01:06):
what I'd love to do today is I think if
our listeners have listened to our previous coverage what's happening
in Myama or Burma, depending on which one you prefer,
they will know a lot about the coup, and they
will know a lot about the things that happens INSCU
right the PDFs and the ethnic resistance organizations. But I

(01:28):
think they might not be as familiar with the situation
that Reiner people have been in for a long time
and continue to be in. It's a different part of
the the country to we were we were in um Maso,
which is on the other side. That's something we've covered
a lot less. So perhaps you could begin by explaining,

(01:50):
like why there are so many Hindia refugees who have left. Obviously,
the history of the persecution of Ranger people is very long,
but if you could give us sort of a potted
history of the persecution of Rheinga people by various governments
in Myanmar and and what has led to this massive
exodus and this this big refugee population for Hinda people, now,

(02:13):
that would be great to start with. Great, thank you,
thank you for having me in. The history is very long,
but I will be concrete and and and short. The
Rheinga people has been in Myanmar before Burma even exists,
before Burma become Burma, and before British came. And their

(02:34):
significant architect color related infrastructure that exists indicates existence of
the Ruhengan. There's a lot of literature research and Runga
people themselves living in generations and generations um there indicates
that Runga are part of my and Mare and it

(02:56):
used to be and it will be and runger not
only the ethnic minority, they are also the religious minority.
Majority of Premise people are Buddhists and of the second largest,
followed by the Muslims are Christian, and then the third
largest or Muslim and Ruhinga are Muslim and and Ruhinga
are single Muslim ethnic groups and Sink also religious ethnic groups.

(03:19):
And there has been historical exclusion discriminations sponsored by the
and sponsored and carried out by the consecutive government of
Myanmar to target the religious and ethnic minority, to exclude
from religious, ethnic and social aspects of the society, and
and it has been politically motivating for many government It

(03:42):
has always been beneficial in in and bussing the larger
populations of Myanmar by showing Ruhinga as a threat to
the country because of their religious differences and to the
way that we were and we eat are slightly different
than than purpose because we have our own culture and

(04:03):
own traditions and own language and and UH and it's
enreached by by those UH. Thus the first start of execution,
like executing these discriminatory policies to work to the Rhinga
has started as as long as um as far as
back in nineteen sixty where the first cool took in

(04:25):
nineteen sixty two when first cool took place, and then
military consecutive military government accelerated that to form to uh
A situations where it could be UH defined and fall
under the category of the crimes against humanity. UH So
in nineteen seventy eight there is a big operations against

(04:46):
Rhinga people to deport them and two d thousand people
has to be flee to to Bangladesh and some of
them still remain as refugees to pout generations for the
generations in banglad there's not being able to repatriate it
to the place where they come from. And followed by
that the nineteen UH nine two, there was another influx

(05:09):
of the refugees, and the refugee it's also the quite
significant larger number of the refugees, and and and not
everyone could come back. And there is another layer of
the refugees that remains from the report treating then from
the biolation, the human rights violations became too throwing as

(05:32):
business a surial, limiting the child, the number of child
that you can have, and treating you less than an animals,
not having the religious right to exercise the way that
you believe, and restrictions of movement, killing, raping, and it's continued,
and it has been accelerated in different form and shape

(05:52):
where it could be it could come to a situation
it's from from crimes against you, and it is being
transformed to genocides and and in two thousands seventeen it's
one to the highest pick of the genocides where a
million people are being deported by burning and many people
had a thousand people died, and many thousands women being raped.

(06:14):
And there are a lot of fatherless a child in
the camp today being uh big bond by by by
by the Women's who, victims of the of the reef
of the Miama military. And today there is a million
people in Bangladesh and UH with no hope to be
reportuated soon to the place of origin with safety and dignity.

(06:36):
And of course the political landscape in Myanma has shifted. UH.
It used to be in the democratic transition from two
thousands ten to twenty with two consecutive different government. And
the democratically elected government has been overthrown by by a
temkup by the military who had ruled the country for

(06:57):
for for many decades. And and and of course the
democratically elected government which I advise to UH is being
Some of the member of the government are being arrested,
and some are in the in the ethnic territorial control,
and and some are in exile, and and and so
the country. So the reactions of the fifty million people

(07:20):
has been different because there has been several co Indian
mara and this was the the the political calculations of
the military leaders to attempt the coup was wrong that
they did not expect the resistance of the people. And
then of course the the the young generation Z people
came in to to resist. Uitially, they claimed to be

(07:41):
peacefully protesting to hand over the power back to the
to the to the democratically elected people. But as a
result they were being brutally cracked on and killed, arrested.
And then and then the young people started to understand
that we need to speak the language that they understand.
They understand, so they speak that language is grabbing a
gun and and and and promming the military. So followed

(08:02):
by that National Unity Government has been fromed by with
the elected members of the of the of the Parliament
worth lower horna opera host. So the National Unity Government
today is the most the legitimate government of the NMAR
and having also some territorial control. Of course, the majority
of the government in infrastructure are being being captured illegally

(08:22):
by the military untain. Yeah, that's and it's interesting that
people aren't familiar with the sort of ethnic makeup of
previous governments and then the National Unity Government. From what
I understand, it's not as much dominated by the majority
ethnic Berman people in the International Unity Government as it
was before even under the n LG. Right, even under

(08:44):
sort of the most most democratic that there has been
in the MMA for some time, like there was still
a domination by by one ethnicity. Right that the National
Unity Government is more ethnically diverse, is that right? Correct?
But still there's are a lot of rooms for improvement.
Particularly Rhea people has always been part of Myanmar and

(09:04):
politically excluded. And despite a million people being pushed out
to the Bangladesh through a genocidal attempt, the remaining populations
in Myanmar is six people politically represented, both sides of
populations under continued genocidal attempts of the Miama military. Internationally,
United Government did not include politically meaningfully the Rhinga populations

(09:27):
still now and they appointed me as an adviser. But
a politically representable size of populations need to be represented,
not by functions alone. It's need to be fund both
all represented by functions and number equally to to UH,
to other ethnic And we're in the context of identity
politics in Myanmar and your political rights and responsibilities to

(09:49):
what to the nations are associated that the very identity
that you were so time to time. There is a
big questions like you know, we're moving forward to the
part of democracy to make the kind too, back to
the track of democracy. But the very principle of democracy
is majority rules and and respect the minorities right right,

(10:09):
And still the Runga are being despite the international pressure,
particularly the United States and it's allies to have inclusive
democracy and Ruhinga people are not yet meaningful included in
the government. Yeah, and I think that's something we've spoken
about a lot with with Karen and Karni people who
we've spoken to about the sort of the need for

(10:31):
a more inclusive structure, whether that's like a federal democracy
after obviously after the military hunter has been deposed, or
certainly something that's more inclusive, and perhaps we can talk
about how like it's very interesting to me when I
talk to young people generation Z people from MMA, they

(10:53):
will say that like they wouldn't have even said sometimes
for a hung yet like ten years ago, that they
wouldn't have used to turn. They have seen the people
who we know who we would call Rhinga as Bangladeshi's right,
because this was the narrative. Can you explain how you've
explained very well that that's not true, but how that
narrative was constructed and what it was used to do.

(11:17):
I think it's once again to exclude through Hingen to
carry out systematic destructions mentally and physically on the Rhinga
is also a lot to do with their spreading propaganda,
misinformations and disinformations through a state let media bost online
and offline. And so this means these destructions has happened

(11:38):
with the state sponsortain state pre planned intentional um intentional
intentional UH way of doing it. And thus the society
the people has been restricted from moving. And this is
one of the least developed region where the hunger people living.
A lot of people from from like other states wouldn't

(12:01):
be able to travel and go and see what is
happening really inside there and to people would not be
able to movets of that to tell their stories. So
all the narrative that people here is the military and
the government what the government used to put at that moment,
So in the in the in the eyes or in
the perceptions of the people through Rhingas are from Bangladesh

(12:21):
and they are trying to to take over the country
and they had a national security threat and that was
the narrative. So they the reality is being defined by
the perceptions and calls and misinformations that being given in
the consistent intentional way to the young people. And of
course today I think has changed slightly to be seeing

(12:43):
to what is reality and people showing the sympathy to
what happened to the Ruhinga, because it's every time something
happened in me Amre like that, it's consistent to work
to the Rhinga, the human rights violations, crimes against humanity
and genocide. And the people fifty million people in Yanmar
were not either they are seeing neutral or they're extending

(13:06):
with the military not like too that this should do
this and this is right to do to kill people
direct to rape because their national security threat. But what
had happened to the Rhinga people, perhaps in the not
the same shape and the same a slerity or valocity
or momentum or intensity has started to happen after the coup,

(13:30):
to to the to the Boma people. And then they
tend to realize what happened to Ringa. What Ringa used
to tell running the whole village is killing and raping,
is exactly what what what is happening more or less
exactly what is happening to us? Than they were right?
And it's the big teams change and the proper traitors
remain the same. And would that concept to people come
to But again I think they still it's very small

(13:53):
number of the populations, uh compared to the whole populations
that lives in Yanmar. And in the critic principles there
is no like you don't tend to say something just
because that you sympathize, and there there are principles and
values that you do not compromise in any circumstance. So
equal right, justice and and inclusivity and like like celebrating

(14:18):
of the diversity. These things are very core principles of
of of the democracy that that we are like a
Suburmese people asking from international community to help. What we're
preaching for to war to the democracy need to be
demonstrated at home. First, we need to act up on
and and so I think the benchmark there's no the

(14:39):
benchmarks shouldn't be defined to include or exclude someone based
on the sympathies need to be based on the principles
and values. Can you explain a little bit about the
situation that Hinge people who have left me and and

(15:00):
maybe they're INCOXETERUSA, maybe they're in No man's land, maybe
they're they're now being moved to an island, right. Can
can you explain what life is like for those people.
Of course, the when we can get people flights to Bangladesh,
it was attempting to survive. Uh like they managed to

(15:21):
survive and otherwise many died and they could be one
of those who who died and they survive, meaning that
these old people are have physical and mental destruction and
unhealless scars in their physical and mental aspects of the life.
And and of course a million people in Bangladesh to
be hosted by the Bangladeshi government bangladeshih people has been

(15:44):
also very difficult because the resource in the given area
is very limited and Bangladesh itself is a small country
with with with limited resource and and we should always
appreciate Bangladeship people and Bangladeship government to open their arms
and hurt to to to absorbs and and and a

(16:05):
Midian people and and and and again. I think the
problems started in Myanmar and and the solutions need to
be in me and Mare and and the people need
to be going with say dignified h way to the
place of origin. And and of course Bangladesh. It has
been five years plus now that the people like the
largest influx took place in Sucer and seventeen uh, and

(16:26):
they were repatriation septem being made and and the when
people fled from Myanmar jump into the Nap River and
Bay of Bengal into those seventeen because the land was
more dangerous than the sea. Situations remained very same or
even worse than that now in in in Mire Mar
to be going back so you you escape from a

(16:47):
grape that you have buried, uh to be killed and
being pushed to go back to to to me and
Mark is as being sent him back to the to
the grape that you escape from from from dying uh.
So the situation doesn't favor for a safe, dignified, voluntary
return for the for the Reinga that's Bangladeshi authorities are

(17:09):
trying to find different innovated modality in different ways how
to how to create sustainable situations for the including relocations
of the of the certain number of the of the
of the Inga populations because the the the the camps
are very congested and the hygiene level in the camp
are very low and there are a lot of also

(17:30):
the the the crow on like you know, if a
million people in a small scale place like that's are
being being closed, anything could happen anytime, you know. So
the the the idea was too by the Bangladeshi government,
which doesn't fall into into the principle of international way

(17:51):
of doing things, and and relocating some of these refugees
to an island that has its a new islands. No
human being has been a lived there, and the island
has been technically from various technical assessment has identified it's
not livable by human being yet and because there are
a lot of like cyclones and and and flats and

(18:12):
things like that, and it's very far away from millions
of Bangladesh and and it yeah, so there is risk
from UH from various perspectives to be able. But despite this,
Bangladeshi government has built, sheltered this and relocated UH some
numbers of Ruhinga, and some of them went by their

(18:33):
own will, seeing that it might be a different and
and some are being maybe perhaps post and and of
course there are a certain number of like around close
to UH five to six thousand people in no man's
land when Bangladesh at the beginning did not open its
border when Rhinga were feleeing, and so this Norman land

(18:54):
we're being occupied by the nearby abilities because Bangladesh wouldn't
open the gate for them and they were stuck in
in there. So they have it happened to be stuck
there since the last five years. Uh and the remaining
gro lives in in in in coxwas a districts of
Bangladesh in different parts of this this districts. So that's

(19:15):
the situation. Yeah, that's very well said, and it's some
people have taken on recently leaving these camps in Bangladesh.
They've taken on this very risky boat journey, right. I
think they're going to places like Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken, Indonesia,
And can you explain a little bit about like how
prevalent that is and of course how incredibly like high

(19:36):
RISCU it is for people to take that journey. Sure,
the the situations in the camp is not much different
than the life that they used to live in in
Indian mar Despite that, the level of level of human
rights politions and the treatment that they're having may not
be the same. But Bangladesh is not a signature to

(20:00):
refugee conventions and it's not legally obliged to be to
be following all international norms and protocols to be to
be hosting the the the the the refugees. But despite
they have demonstrated the humanity UH and demonstrated the moral
obligations towards the humanity to to host the million people

(20:20):
and the then the a million people. Some of them
has been from V eight and some of them are
from nine, some of them are from two seventeen. Has
a very dark future. They are closed in this fence
camp and the movements are restricted. Access to informations are
not given like the interne Access to informations are are

(20:44):
like internet service and things like that has been denied.
Access to livelihoods are denied and they're not able to
legally work and solely rely onto to the International Humanity
and assistem. Access to education has been denied. So the
young people who are growing in this camp does not
see a future they will be able to go back
to me and Mark or if they live here. As
if you're living a debt, like you know, you don't

(21:07):
have any any any way forwards seeing a bright fisher
So there is there is the only they don't have
the best alternative to be trying to be exploring different
parts and the only part it's happened to be is
being created in the past, uh in the past by
some rhingas taking these boats and making to Malaysia where

(21:28):
they could do some domestic works and get a refugee
status and maybe able to work, and and some you're
lucky enough to be resettled in the third country. A
small number maybe less than two, less than two or
three percent of the total total ruinga reladyershire. So the
journey is very risky. The the the the the boats

(21:48):
that they're taking, the first the c is very rough
that they take, and their the infrastructure, what infrastructure that
they're taking are not uh bill like, they not built
in a way to be coping with this rough sea
and rough rough weathers and climates. So many of these
younger people who make this, less than fifty percent of

(22:08):
them may make it to the to the destinations. Either
they die on the sea, or they are being arrested
by different navies and and and or they're they're being
jailed by by Mini and mar junta. And in two
thousand twenty two alone, three thousand, five hundred, more than
three thousand, five hundred people including children as young as

(22:29):
two years old, jailed to five years for trying to
attempt to to go to Malaysia. So this is this
is what it is happening. So the the life is
meaningless there. And of course taking this journeymane that you're
tossing a coin whether you get a tail or you
get you get head or you got tails, you know,

(22:51):
and and and so it's like betting your life whether
if you make it, you're you're life to somewhat level meaningfully,
if you don't make it your life and it is
more or less the same that you will live in
there in there. So that's why these are the push factors,
and of course they are full factors reunifications. If a
son has made UH three years ago, five years ago

(23:11):
to to Malaysia and working in the constructions or or
or or or or or gardening like levers and and
you have a remaining family in the camp and you
don't want to see your family in that situation, and
you're want to bring your family kids or children's or
wife and you do that. And lastly, also they are
growing youth in Malaysia who are who want to marry
the UA and maintain the culture and language and things

(23:33):
like that, so they want to have rights bringing from
the refugi camp and and so they're they're different, uh
push factor, pull factor as well from from Malaysia, but
the prime primary factor is the push factor in Indian
martin in Bangladesh, right, Yeah, and fat reason for people
to want so yeah, some futures and some chance to

(23:54):
realize their own life and that goes. So can you
explain people will probably have seen like I think we're
recording this on Thursday, UM, which is the date nineteen

(24:15):
and people would have seen the last couple of days
maybe videos of fires in No man's land, and they
will probably have seen like some acronyms, which are a
lot of acronyms when when you're reading about me m
I can be very confusing. So could you explain a
little bit about who these two groups that we've seen, right,
the A R S A and the R s O,

(24:36):
who they are and what they what they represent and
perhaps why these two groups who are nominally Hingia are
fighting each other. So the in the context of ME
and MA politics, the ethnic people UH has been fighting
for decades and and and decades UH with ME and
Mama lestry and Bama supremacy. Like for larger majority supremacy

(25:02):
UH at the beginning, they were attempt during the time
of independency through reconciliations and dial of meaning like without arms.
But the language again being understood by the by the
Myanmar larger majority is the language that they speak as well.

(25:23):
So then ethnic people started to grab the arms and
resist control their territory to UH to attempted to control
their territory in order to get the equal right and
decide for their own future, be part of the decisions
that collectively impact their nations and and basically equal right,
justice and and and those those things. That's what ethnic

(25:45):
people are are fighting for and giving their lives and livelihoods. UH.
It's nothing less than that are nothing more than that's
very simple. We want to live with dignity freely equally
with anyone else. And and so many ethnic revolutionary organizations
forms came came up in different part of Myanmar representing

(26:06):
different ethnic and Ruhenga also used to be one of
those back in nineteen fifty UH. After nineteen forty eight
dependent and nineteen fifty two, Ruheinga is the first one
to drop the gun in a change of the peace
with the government saying that we are peace loving people
and as long as you give us what what what
our identity and and and we're able to end, we are.

(26:28):
So then there's a certain period of time that the
Ruhenga people did not have an arm oppositions group because
I am someone who believe in non violent movement, but
in a context like myrmar Again, non violence movement wouldn't
go anywhere if it's worked seventy years. Uh wouldn't have
the longest singular war in the world more than seventy years, right,

(26:51):
So we need to be practical and seeing the reality
like that. So then then nineteen seventy eight, again these
things happened. And then and the Ruhinga thinks, okay, then
what we have been promised and what we have were
we are being told to be promised to be given
is not given. So we have to grab the gun

(27:12):
again and and form do as others are doing in
order to to uh. So, the Rhinga Solidarity Organization has
been formed and it has been one of the popular organizations,
getting a lot of popularity from the Rhinga community. And
then there were issues within the institution that has been growing.
Of course, uh they were not able to maintain uh

(27:32):
the the institutional growth and institutional resource managements and then
the institution collapse and as well as it has to
do something with that, like you don't have a territory
like other other other arm oppositions group will will be
in stations in me and mark where Unga, we're stations
in Bangladesh and Bangladesh government we're not really supporting enough

(27:55):
for them to survive with with with the where to
enhance its military capability and of course there are several
other other other things and and so then it's disappeared
in between and then and two thousand fourteen, Uh this guy,
a guy called um this the guy who is leading

(28:15):
currently the the the are scar Conds Salvation's Army, who
was born in Pakistan and grew up in Saudi Arabia.
His parents, he claimed his parents is Rhingen. Of course
uh he speak the rhing language. That's mean it's indicated
that he uh he's and came to to our kind

(28:35):
of state to mobilize people saying that you needed to
grab the gun. And this is what then people across
who have critical thinking skills and did not believe into
things because it's need to be from and within. And
someone who does not understand how many and more politics
look like cannot lead revolutions because revolutionary has to do
a lot with the with the politics political landscape as

(28:58):
well in the country. And and uh but however, there's
a certain number of people who believe in it, in
follow very small number and uh and inga didn't want
to again fight or or entry into violence, and they
just want to live peacefully and and that uh and
they are resilient to to the to to what they're
trying to uh gain equally as others. And and so

(29:23):
then our consolvation servey U E R S. He has
attacked the post thirty different police forced in two thousand seventeen.
That's where the collective punishment has been given as a
result of the ring Ruhinge community. And it's not collective
collective action. It was individual's action. Certain hundreds of people

(29:44):
gathered together and attend police force and and and the
whole rega population has been punished. So then followed by
that as well, ours has been free st judging themselves
and then so our our Ruhinga solebrity organizations also pop
up parallelly back into nineteen and and and of course
the the ideology that they stent are slightly different from

(30:08):
one another, and so they they they they that's why
the clash happened. And and UH ring A Solitary Organization
think that uh like the the way that ourselves has
been conducting, and they're responsible. They they for what happened
to the Ruhinga people as a collectively, genocides and things

(30:28):
I think like that, creating opportunities for Burmese military to
to wipe out the Hingen deported through Hinga. And so
they were this political disagreement between these two groups. And
this Noman land has been mostly occupied within the Ruhinga
refugees there some are some members are often trying to
to enter there and and and stations there and so recently,

(30:52):
UH the what we have learned from the ground is
that our Ringu solidarity organizations UH route out and operations
to remove them from there and so that the Ringery
within the normal lands could live peacefully without crimes and
things like that. And and that's how the fighters started
and and it's escalated and there were two hundred houses

(31:15):
being burned on shelters during refugee shelters around two thousand
five hundred to three thousand people has been uh has
to be displaced. They were not allowed to enter to
Bangladesh because normal land is not accessible by neither parties
and and it's it's just in between. So some of
them has destroyed the fans toward to Burma and enter

(31:36):
to their because they are just from the nearby abilities.
They could see their abilities for five years, but they
could not go back, so they so they so they
went back there. But now my Mamalaty is pushing them
out from from their back to the normal lands. Yeah,
it's just, yeah, a terrible situation and buildings on the

(31:58):
only armed groups that state right there are other round groups.
But this sort of explains it more succinctly, like if
we get into the other round groups, it gets even
more complicated. And so I wonder what people listening, obviously
will they've they've heard a lot about about the conflict
in Burma, about the various different groups that are being

(32:20):
persecuted by the Burmese military. How can they help specifically
with this issue? Is is there ways that people can
can help out? I think we have seen how the
world came together to help Ukraine people unjustly illegally to
be attacked by by Russia and and threatening the democratic

(32:44):
society of the world. And and that has been very
inspiring appreciated and and and we stand with the Ukrainian
people and people in Burma. Has the life of the
value of the life of the people in Burma has
also there is no difference in you can buy one,
you know. So we have been the people in Myanmar
has been fighting for for UH the cost of life

(33:08):
and livelihoods today with whatever means that they have to
make this country back to the part of democracy. And
and so international community should do beyond releasing the statement
or or or of concerned, and a statement of concern
maybe maybe may name and shame and may put political
pressure and political pressure. UH is not the they thing

(33:32):
that being cared by by the by the by the junta.
So the the the total enemy of the overall people,
including ning people, other military and and and they're the
one who has destroyed this country. And they're beyond who
is destroying and they're responsible primarily responsible um people institutions
who wiped out through and who carried all the genocide.

(33:53):
So I think the international community should do beyond beyond
sanctions um and Ago and and and respective citizens of
the country should claim to the real respective government to
do more for Purmes people and the Runga people, to
demonstrate the moral obligations toward to the humanity. And in
twenty century genocides took place while the world was watching,

(34:17):
and we set in the United Nations back in nineteen
uh nineteen fifty forty eight that never again. And and
it's very shameful that it could that the genocide could
take place in the eyes of eight billion people in
twenty century and modern age and the world failed to

(34:39):
protect the Runga this party. There has been compelling stories,
images and satellitteries and and and still it's continued to
be so and followed by that crimes against community, war
crimes has been being committed continually by the by the
same military that committed genocides. And I think the international
community we'll have at some point to answer to themselves

(35:05):
on their beliefs of the humanity. Yeah, Like I think
the international community, let's happened for too long, and they
ignored it for too long, and then now it always
happens right Like it's like for coast Boomerang. The violence
spreads and gets used in the metropol and it's deeply upsetting.
What does that support look like from the international community, Like,

(35:25):
does that mean ah Man pads for PDF? Does it
mean recognizing the National Unity Government? Like what concrete things
should the community be doing the international communities should recognize
there Again, the there are some issues that need to

(35:46):
be fixed within the the National Unity Government, particularly the
inclusions of the Ruhinga and other like it's it's positions
to work to the religious other religious and ethnic minorities,
particularly those are small, and that need to be fixed.
And international community should do it in an instant device
way that okay, you do this and we will do

(36:07):
this for you, and and and the recognitions come with
incentive of supporting, uh supporting because it's only legitimate. Whether
we like the National Unity Government or not, we don't
have the best alternative to it. It's democratically elected. And
and there is a lot of issues within the within

(36:28):
the within the within the the National Unity Government, particularly
when it's come to the rocking issues. So these need
to be dealt in in National Energy Government. I have
been consistently advising them to fix this, acting beyond policy
and and and and showing like state level prioritized agenda
with concrete milestone to to to the change to word

(36:50):
to the rocking UH. And of course, parallel to that,
international community should ensure that big supports are being given,
being recognized and and and and in order to win
these revolutions which has shaken the very institution that has
consumed the resource of the country in various means and

(37:10):
ways UH. Some UH and one of the strongest institution
has been shaken by the young people UH with very
small means that they are very small and time to time,
very innovative UH and and and and utilizing whatever means
that they had. An international community should provide support to
PIA to be first and foremost institutionalizing and and and

(37:34):
and capacity building enhancing acting upon international stent that we
are UH way of operating as as a as a
military group and and of course when you are being
established as an as a military UH institutions UH and
it is it's being formed by the by the legal
government of Myanmar. And to support this this this military

(37:57):
and many many nations are getting military assistant speckage and
and I think international community should have no problem to
provide military system package too, of course in a very
principles and value based with with the value BASTE approach,
and and and and and let's include the technical support
to to to set up the mechanisms to heal their

(38:17):
contable and to ensure the transparencient accountable across the aspectrum. Yeah. Yeah,
I think that's that's very well said. And they do
tend like if people aren't familiar with the way the
PDFs have been organized, like they they have been very
respectful of like norms and laws of war and things
like that, which obviously that the Barmese military have not.
And I think and institutions that a group that has

(38:40):
been with hundred hundred prousands of people, young people with
no prior military experience and mostly operating in a very
limited uh to no resource context and being able to
respect the human rights and human dignity should be recognized.
You know. There when you you have a gun, and

(39:04):
there are there are things that happen and need to
be justified in and and being held accountable for. But
I'm saying that I'm not saying that it should be
a lot in any any any kind of misconduct within
the military systems need to be investigated properly and take
actions upon and held accountable those who get these who
carried out these actions, and who gave common to carry
out this action. But the number of cases related to

(39:26):
the to the to the to the to the PDP
has been significantly low. And when when it's come to
the to the human right violations and and it has
to be zero and even one is too much. But
I'm saying compared to UH to UH and and and
I think continued support need to be given there in
order to to to enhance their capacity to defeat the

(39:49):
junta plus to defeat it in the principle and value
based with the principle and value based approach. Yeah, yeah, certainly,
the definitely like the people we've spoken to, a terr
holy equipped by any modern standards, incredibly brave and innovative.
They could certainly do a lot better. They have a
lot more. Okay, where can people if people want to
follow along with your work, which is very impressive, how

(40:12):
can they find you? Do you have like do you
want to share your Twitter account or a website? Maybe?
Where can people keep up with you? So? I am
on Twitter and Facebook mostly and my tutor is a
k MOO two UH and which you can see it's
with my pictures and and I have put my bio
as well there. And I'm also also very active on

(40:32):
the Facebook and what the work related. Most of the
work that I do, UH are being not everything, but
some part that international community need to know are being
portrayed there. And particularly UH the human rights situations related
to the Ruhinga and Rhinga if it is in Bangladesh
are being being being shared there in a timely, very

(40:57):
timely manner. Sometimes even lives you know, it's have now
and being and uh, yeah, yeah, you've been very good
at that. And I put your Twitter account and it's
very informative and it helps me stay informed. So it's
it's a k m o E two if people are
searching for it. Thank you so much for giving us
some of your evening. I really really appreciate your time.

(41:18):
Is there anything else you want to get to before
we finish up now? It's lovely to be part of
the program, and thank you so much for helping me.
Once again, thank you very much. It could happen here
as a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts
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(41:39):
Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts,
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