All Episodes

September 18, 2023 47 mins

Did anyone teach you that understanding your grief is the key to being (or becoming) a healthy human being? Probably not. 


In this expansive episode, Megan speaks with world-renowned author and physician Gabor Maté about the role of trauma and grief in our personal lives and in society at large. Dr. Gabor Maté on grief, this week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK, the podcast.


In this episode we cover: 


  • What is “personal agency” and why does losing personal agency create disease? 
  • Why calling grief a disorder has social, relational and political ramifications
  • How do elephants grieve? Is it really so different from humans? 
  • Women as the emotional shock absorbers for the rest of the world
  • Why we often ignore other peoples’ pain to make ourselves comfortable
  • Does taking pain seriously make you more hopeful? 
  • Dr. Gabor Maté’s conversation with Prince Harry (!) 


Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit for resources & courses


About the guest:

Dr. Gabor Maté is a renowned speaker and author, with expertise in trauma, stress, addiction, and child development. He’s the NYT best-selling author of The Myth of Normal, the award-winning In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and many other books. Find him at

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world. Find her @refugeingrief

Additional resources:

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed 


Books and research mentioned in this episode 


Mark as Played

Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

McCartney: A Life in Lyrics

McCartney: A Life in Lyrics

"McCartney: A Life in Lyrics" offers listeners the opportunity to sit in on conversations between Paul McCartney and poet Paul Muldoon dissecting the people, experiences, and art that inspired McCartney’s songwriting. These conversations were held during the past several years as the two collaborated on the best selling book, “The Lyrics: 1965 to Present.” Over two seasons and 24 episodes of “McCartney: A Life in Lyrics”, you’ll hear a combination master class, memoir, and improvised journey with one of the most beloved figures in popular music. Each episode focuses on one song from McCartney’s iconic catalog – spanning early Beatles through his solo work. Season 1 premieres on October 4th. “McCartney: A Life in Lyrics” is a co-production between iHeart Media, MPL and Pushkin Industries. Cover Portrait © 1967 Paul McCartney / Photographer: Linda McCartney

Dateline NBC

Dateline NBC

Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.

Crime Junkie

Crime Junkie

If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.

For You

    Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.


    © 2023 iHeartMedia, Inc.