Doug Weinstein | YSL Trial EXPOSED: Doug Weinstein on Young Thug vs. Gunna Pleas, Lil Woody’s Secret & Fake Evidence! PT-1 - ITS UP THERE PODCAST W/LOONEY

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lawyer's perspective. From a legal perspective, is there any difference
between thug's plea and gunner's plea? Not because you sat
next to him two years Is there a scenario where you,
as a lawyer say, those two are the same things.
I affiliated with Cel around two thousands?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Is that true?

Speaker 3 (00:22):
As yes, by Cell is a music label and a game,
and you have personal knowledge that members are associating by Cell?

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Has many primes been part of the.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Selling game because he didn't wouldn't sign off on all
their little things? Why I sell as a gang and
all this other business? He had to take that non
negotiated plea, right, the blind plea. He had to risk
going to prison. He risked going to prison partially so
he wouldn't have to sign off on all that stuff

(00:56):
that were to hurt the other guys.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
You're still taking the risk when you're doing this blind plea.
Why not take the risks alongside Brian.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
Still, mister Williams, do you understand that this is a
non negotiated plea of guilty and that if since your plea,
your guilty plea is a blind plea or a non
negotiated plea, the state is making a recommendation of sentencing
to the court.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
We also have to examine the level of scrutiny Gunner
has got right, Gunna has gotten a certain level of
scrutiny for pleaing out in the same way that some
people are saying that looks like Doug is now for
lack of a better term, played out in the same
way on day one. When when you're in a scenario

(01:50):
where you know the state is bringing in the lead
witness and we know it's Kenneth Cope and it's little Woody,
what is the vibe over there in y'all corn it
because we don't know we talked about before, we know
his approach, what he's gonna say, Yeah, how he's gonna
do this? What is the vibe in that corner out?
Do you want to be here?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm here?

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Okay? Well, are you gonna let me ask you some questions?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (02:15):
How old are you?

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay? What does grown mean?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I'm under dupe?

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (02:21):
And when he said you're to do what number of
years are you?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
I pleed the field ladies, gentlemen, can I get you
a step outside to your headquarters the jury deliberation?

Speaker 5 (02:35):
Please?

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Do you did you see a difference between the way
wood he handled you and your side versus how we
handled the prosecution.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Tell you there was a day they went in there
and did some kind of dumb ass raid right into
the court. Real what, Yeah, they did something like courts
and session. All of a sudden, Judge Glanville falls a recess.
He's like, we got to take a recess. And by
the way, that day, tons of media were in the room.
They wanted Thugh. The target was Thuugh.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
So as the defense team over there for yet gott it.
You don't see an issue with Gunna saying that this
is a game.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I'm not happy that he said it, But you know what,
I can explain that to the jury, and his lawyer
knows I can explain that to the jury.

Speaker 5 (03:23):
You were present when law enforcement officers stopped the vehicle
in which you were present along with Jeffrey Williams, where
in Hydrocodon met them Bettis and a fuirearm where we
cout these items did not belong to you.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Let's start with the fact that we didn't have all
the evidence ten days before trial, like as a requirement.
That's a requirement in Georgia law and we're getting evidence
six one cent. We had a prosecutor, a lead prosecutor
that was lying to the court, and you know what,
she can come after me, come on after me, but
she was lying to the court.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Have you reached any benefits from being so visible with
the trial? I mean, I know you already married man
and things like the brands, followers, endorsements, clients.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Well, yeah, I got clients from Yeah, for sure, I
got clients from it.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, no, it's better than I would. Thank you your visibility.
Do you know what to do with visibility? Though?

Speaker 2 (04:34):
You know, I'm trying to do good and make money, right,
So are we all now?

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Cool? I wanted to know. Yeah, no, because, like I'm
pushing for like the Rap Act and a bunch of
states to try to limit when lyrics can come in
against folks. So use it for that. Uh, And then
I'm trying to draw attention to how messed up Right
Street is.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people they've been
I'm plaining by this shit for years. I know about that,
and I ain't even from here.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
I know for years and years. But that doesn't mean
we should stop complaining.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
That's a fact. But your resources making be utilized in
a better place. Well, we'll see visibility. I don't know.
I mean, I don't say it is not worth doing,
but I'm just saying sometimes it's corruption on top of
corruption on top of corruption and bureaucracy and you just
can't get through to the people.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know, you got all these little fiefdoms in Fulton County.
You got the Fulton County Commission, you got the Sheriff's office,
you got the DA You kind of in a way,
you got the courts and all. They're all tussling with
each other. And that's kind of what's going on in
some of this right right. But that doesn't mean I
think people forget they're human beings locked up over in
Rice Street.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yes, And.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Honestly, like before I started doing this criminal law, I
didn't think about it much. Now people don't think about it.
But you know, the I put the problem with Rice Street,
that's the citizens of Fulton County. It's on them. They
need to pressure the missioners to get their act together,
put some money into that place, fix it. It's not
so much on the sheriff, I mean, honestly, but the

(06:08):
citizens and the Fulton County Commission. They need to get
their damn.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Do they even know that? But I guess the public.
I try to let people know, right, And that's why
we'll talk about it today. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
I mean, I'm sure the people on Cleveland Avenue know
about it, right, But the people up in Dunwoody, Sandy Springs,
you know, Buckhead, do they know or care? I don't
think so. And you know what the sad part is.
You know what's gonna take to fix Rice Street? This
is pitiful. This was what it's gonna take. You're gonna
need some fifty year old, forty five year old white
guy for Buckhead to get killed in Rice Street before

(06:42):
you see action. And that's just that's a shame. Yes,
but the world shouldn't work that way.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's unfortunate, but that's true. Yeah, Yo, welcome to us
up there podcast. I am your active and attractive host.
For another episode, I got someone that I really was
looking forward to speaking to, someone that put on a
clinic if you asked me, in the longest trial in
us A history. We got Doug Weinstein. How are you, brother?

Speaker 2 (07:08):
I'm doing great? And thank you for having me. I
wouldn't say it was a clinic. I would say we
had a great team in there, and we all worked
together really well.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
But if we and if you can't get this closer
to you, I can do that. Yeah, But but if
we're being honest, right, I was looking over some clips
when you needed to be very direct, you were very direct.
I remember one time when you stood up and wanted
a mistrial and you said, you cannot fix this.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
I moved from a mistrial. This absolutely cannot be unheard
by the jury. It was here heard clear as day
in his deep, sonorous voice. They have heard it, they
have absorbed it. It cannot be fixed.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
If you can just give us an opportunity just to
look at some case lawedist to see.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
If your honor, I'm sorry, how many times has this
man testified in a trial. How long has he been
in I know he's a retired investigator. How long has
he been an investigator? He knows he is not supposed
to say that, your honor, I would find it.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
These kind of terminology and words are very direct, and
someone like yourself knows how to position yourself in that way.
So I mean, I would say that's a clinic. If
you asked me, well.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Thank you, that's kind to say. But I really did
want to explain to the judge that we're in a
situation that honestly, she couldn't fix. I think she did
her best to try. Let's give her some credit for that, right,
but I don't think she could fix it. The jury
ended up fixing it. That's what happened, right, and God
bless them for doing that.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Facts, you know, I think, But just that terminology was
so important, right, you can cut the tension in the building. Right.
It was just y'are and I need to And then
you get up and you say, listen, this is basically
we've had enough at this point. Yeah, right, you know,
all of these different things are taking place. You cannot
you understand how you understand, but if you and public

(09:04):
may may not understand that positioning from a lawyer to
a judge, you cannot fix this.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
There's times for big, fancy, eloquent language, but then you
can use some of that, but then sometimes short, sweet
direct There's always a place for that, and you have
to know when to use it. But another example of
that is, for I was thinking about this the other day,
someone asked me, what was one of your favorite moments
in trial? And it was when I was explaining to

(09:32):
the judge how Judge Whittaker help with Judge Glanville before
I was complaining about all this late evidence that was
coming in six months in the trial. We're seeing stuff
for the first time, and I complained to Judge Glanville,
and Judge Glanville said, well, if this was a civil trial,
I would keep it out. And I told Judge Whittaker,
can you imagine that if it's a civil trial, when

(09:53):
it's about money, he keep it out. When it's men's
lives on the line, he lets it in. And I
said to Judge, how do I explain that to my client?
How do I explain that to Diamonte?

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Right? And what was his response? I don't remember that.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
She actually she had a very yeah, she had a
very heartfelt response. She said, I don't know what you said.
You're a client, right, and what you say right?

Speaker 1 (10:17):
And we'll get to Whitaker, and we'll also get the
glamor because it's so much to unpack. Bro, It's just
there's been so much happening, But I want to start
with my research tells me that this is your first
criminal trial.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, that was my first criminal trial. I'd been in
a number of trials, but they were always civil. They
were always federal, not state. So this was my first
criminal trial and my first jury trial.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
We're going through both of those. What do you see
as the difference. What's the distinct difference of those?

Speaker 2 (10:47):
You know, I think the I guess the biggest Well,
you know, it's hard to say because hy SL was
such a crazy trial. It wasn't a normal trial. Next
week I'll be in a normal trial, and after next week,
maybe I can tell you the difference because all I've
seen is an insane criminal trial, high level, just crazy stuff.

(11:08):
And but I will say this, I think the criminal
trials are at a little more like the wild West
than civil trials are in federal court, which are very,
very orchestrated. Waltz is right. I'm always telling people trialing
like you see in the movies, even criminal trial, it's
not like what you see in the movies. It's a
very orchestrated presentation. So that's kind of one of the

(11:31):
biggest difference.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
But how do you explain why il trial? Because for
all intensive purposes, people to say, yo, this is like
the movies.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
I know it was like the movies, but it's not
supposed to be, right, That's the whole thing. It's not
supposed to be like.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Bro, we see them being this thing, this thing that
this justice system is in a very weird place. Man.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
You know, I would like to think, and I'm gonna
withhold judgment here, right, I would like to think that
that YSL trial wasn't anomaly, wasn't And I given the
parts of other trials I've seen, I kind of think
it was an exception in a lot of ways, but.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Not not No, no, no, it was an exception as
far as visibility, but not as far as treatment.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well, I don't know that. I'm gonna wait and see.
I'm gonna withhold judge.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Tell me, tell me what do you think was Because
you're in the room with some people that's been through
some things, that's right, So tell me what you think
is anomaly for the.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, I'll tell you it's different than the YSL trial
so much. Let's I don't even know where to begin.
Let's start with the fact that we didn't have all
the evidence ten days before trial, like as a requirement.
That's a requirement in Georgia law and we're getting evidence
six months in. We had a prosecutor, a lead prosecutor
that was lying to the court and you know what,

(12:47):
she can come after me, come on after me. But
she was lying to the court. We had a lead
prosecutor that was lying about the law, lying about what
the defense attorneys had done, accusing Brian Steele of altering evidence. Right.
I mean, I could probably sit here for an hour
and tell you how nuts this trial was.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
You know, But I think if the longer you do
criminal trials, you'll see that, oh, this is a little
bit more normal than I thought. Maybe not ten for ten, Right,
but because we look at asap Rocky's trial with with
them being in the scenario where the whole defense is
he had a startup pistol, and then literally on opening

(13:27):
day they show up with ballistic evidence.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I know.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
So again, these are the games just being played across
this nation.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
That definitely was some gamesmanship there. Now you saw right
in the shoot what's what's the.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Actor's name that was out in the what's the Johnny Devils?

Speaker 2 (13:44):
No? No, the one that was in like thirty rock
and Hunt for Red October and he's got all Baldwin
Alex Baldwin trial. The prosecutors tried to do some nonsense
and the judge wasn't having any of it.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
That's what I'm telling you.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Threw that out.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
There's three for three. You're gonna have to give me
a trial. Bay. It didn't happen at this point because
we're looking at three foot three saying yo, all right,
there's Alec balwhin. They tried it, but it didn't work,
so they're trying it. And if you don't got the
visibility and the money and the equity that your team had,
because not only you, but still has a certain equity

(14:21):
in Georgia that needs to be respected and will be respected.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, well, I still maintain and it would cost almost nothing.
Every trial should be streamed. It doesn't cost anything to
put a camera in the courtroom and get a YouTube
channel and stream that trial, and it would bring light
on everything and I think it would just be a
great thing. Now, we have judges in Fulton County that
stream their trials. They stream their court all the time.

(14:47):
So we have some judges that do that. But we
need to do it not just in the state courts,
but in the federal courts.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
All that.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Trials are supposed to be public, and they are public.
You can walk in and watch a trial, right, But
these days public doesn't mean what it meant two hundred
and fifty years ago. Yes, I think, and I think
Bruce Harvey's with me on this, although I don't want
to speak for Bruce. If you want a public trial,
that trial needs to be televised a lot of the time. Yeah,
it really does.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
That's the only way you can make sure that is fair.
You keep it honest. Yeah, because again, and if we're
being real, it doesn't necessarily always even work for the defendant,
because sometimes you get to see things that don't go
in as favor. But it's still it is the truth.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Let's get the truth. Let's get the truth out there.
And so every time the state would try to not
show a witness, unless they had a great reason, I
would object. So, you know, for example, state didn't want
to show Gaither, right, a major witness in this case
didn't want to show Gaither. Gaither is like a rash
all over the internet. The Hawks are promoting her her

(15:51):
images out there. She was on first was it first
forty eight, first twenty four, whatever it's called. That that. Yeah,
that's the forty eight's first forty eight episode. After episode,
so her identity was known, there was no reason not
to show her. So, you know, what's the only reason
not to show that. I can't think of one. You know,

(16:11):
if she wants to get on It's what I said
earlier in the case to Judge Glenville. If someone wants
to get on that stand and tell lies about my client,
I want them to have to look my client in
the eyes. That's why we were up front. I want
them to look my client in the eyes while they
lie on them, and I want a camera on them
because I want the public to see what they're saying.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Right, And I like that dog in you though. I
like that dog in you.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
I have a little bit of that.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, And I think you got a little bit of
live wire about you too, Like it's like this little
like he'll he'll say it, bro, He's not gonna let
you just walk over him. And for me, I respect that,
and I think in courtrooms that's needed.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, Look, we're talking a little bit earlier about is
this trial coming up? A big trial that I have
it next week. It's a huge trial for my client.
It's the biggest trial in the world. So that man
sitting next to me or woman, I mean, it's everything
to them. And if you want to put that man
in prison or that woman in prison, you're gonna have
to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And if you want

(17:12):
to put witnesses on the stand, they should have to
look him in the face. That's that's the law.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
If you were my lawyer, right, and we had a relationship,
I'm telling you this, and I don't feel like you know,
I don't I don't sugar coat. I don't have a
reason to. And it cost me nothing, right, yeah, nothing right.
So but if you were my lawyer, I wonder if yet, God,
he was sleeping, like you know, he was probably sleeping

(17:38):
as good as thug like thinking like, yo, I got
a guy that is really working on my behalf that
won't me out and it's going to try to prove
his self or prove my innercy. This episode is brought
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the episode. Like Yo, I got a guy that is

(19:03):
really working on my behalf that won't me out and
it's going to try to prove his self, approve my innocence.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
I hope so you know, I had to prove that
up to him because I'm not the lawyer he hired.
The lawyer he hired was my boss, Jay App.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, So when it was me that was kind of
appearing there all the time, I had to prove myself
to him, and I had to earn his trust and
earn his respect. I think I did that over time.
You know, Jack Diamonte, he's a smart guy. So getting
him involved in the trial, getting his input, that was
really helpful. Now did he sleep well? I mean, we

(19:38):
had a chance, we could have pled out, we could
have planed out. I took an offer to him because
I'm required to do that from the state, right, I
think about fifteen sixteen years to serve I can't remember exactly.
And he's like, no way, I didn't do this, crap,
I didn't do this. We're gonna take it to the jury,
you know, take it to trial and take it to
the jury. We're gonna see what they say. I trust you, man,

(19:59):
I trust you are gonna take it. We're gonna go.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Well, let's bag up some Yeah, so your boss didn't
show up for this very prestigious case with this level
of visibility.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, I would, I wouldn't put it that way. We
were kind of all working on the case together, and
at the beginning we would kind of take turns in court.
But it came to the point where early, pretty early
on in the trial that I really asked to kind
of be the one in court day to day because
I I.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Just I'm just wondering, is he older? Is he No?

Speaker 2 (20:30):
No, No, he's younger than me. He was there, He's
got a really good cross that you can see I
think around October, okay, but he was there from time
to time. And then there was someone else, Katie Hingerty,
So the three of us all worked together. We were
all in that trial. So you're probably going to get
to it. But like on my in my motion, not
my motion, but when I tried to get Glanville Raques

(20:51):
and I went to the Supreme Court, Katie Hingerty helped
me write that brief.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
And I'm all working on right, I imagine that I'm
just wondering if hires this guy, and it's a level
of clout attached to this nigga. This is why sale case. Yeah,
you see what I'm saying, and yet reaching for you
and it's like I'm gonna pass it, or we gonna
decide to put you in the forefront and you and

(21:17):
you prove it.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
And I couldn't have done it without his support. Right,
I'm not gonna go in there and say I'm taking over.
You're just stuck with me. But I think I just
showed him a knowledge of the case and demonstrated you know,
it was more than anything. I think, just showing them
that I cared, showing him that I had heart, and
that I was gonna work my tail off to get
him out of there. And that's I don't have as

(21:38):
much experience as these other guy, at least in criminal
as these other guys in the courtroom. I mean, I've
been in the courtroom almost thirty years, but I have
a much experience of these other guys. But I think
he saw and I'm not bragging. I'm just telling the truth.
I mean I developed a relationship with him, yeah, for sure.
And it would have it would have torn me up
inside to see him found guilty on any those counts

(22:00):
and go to prison. I'm not happy right now with
him sitting in jail.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
What's his status right now?

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well, you know, he had three things he was dealing with. Right,
he had a probation revocation, which is the reason he
couldn't get bonded earlier. And he's got one case that's
an aggravated assault right in a penal institution. That's worse
than it sounds. I mean, it sounds worse than it is.
He's got that agasault right in a penal institution from

(22:27):
a fight that was in the jail. And then he
had some contraband allegedly in a cell. So he's got
those two cases. But I'm pretty sure he's going to
end up getting bonded out. I don't know when, but
I would I would imagine he's going to get bonded
out soon. So let you and the probation revocation is gone.
They withdrew that. That's huge, by the way, huge Bruce

(22:50):
Harvey and Nicole Nicole got that.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Take care of you, Yeah for sure, shout out to
awesome job. Yeah. So what the case the young thug
wise trial. It was a fifty six count racketeering indictment.
It was if you had to give a grade on
what the prosecution did or number great in scale number

(23:15):
one to ten, what would you give them?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
You mean, on the quality of how they did their case. Yes,
I would give them like a three, I would say
on a one to ten. And again that's because of
the lead prosecutor, not because of the people under her.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
I think now it's the lead prosecutor Fanny Willis or
Adrian Love.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Adrian Love, I really would chalk it up to her
and the way she chose to run this case and
present her case. But I think the other prosecutors around
her are are almost universally good good prosecutors.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Have you ever did prosecution? I have not.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
So maybe when people could say I'm sure if Mss
Love is looking at this right now, she'd say, I'm
not qualified to render an opinion. But I watched her
for two years.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
And I pined you to the mat basically beat we
beat that what you've done. So you know what I'm saying,
I mean, with all due respect, like what y'all presented,
we ended up on you know.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
I mean, you lost to a rookie. So I mean
that's the truth.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
That is the actual truth. So how do you prepare
for a trial of this magnitude because this is I
guess this is crossing over with traditional litigation and now
digital evidence. Well, This is kind of one of the
first times you had to miss those two things.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know, it's very interesting you say that because we
had six terabytes six terabytes now and I don't have
the resources of Thug and Brian Steele. I don't have
a whole team of people that can comb through that.
What was very helpful for me is being as old
as I am. And I'll tell you why. I'll tell
you why, because I'm an old software double god. I'm

(24:54):
an electrical engineering and software guy. And back in the
seventies and early eighties or eighties, there was this piece
of software called Unix, and it has this very complicated
tool in it called g REP. I'm getting really technical now,
but anyway, if you're as old as I am and
are a software guy, you can use this super powerful
but kind of clunky tool to get go through all

(25:15):
the discovery and find the words, yeah, words, texts and
try to try to get a lot of that. So
I did a lot of that to try to find stuff.
You know. Mister Kokomo Shaquill Kocomo Shack. Yes, he was
really great at doing like media searches for things. He
had some skills in that.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Which when you say media searches. Yah, google YouTube.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Well you know what I tell you? Know this trial stream, right,
so every day was on YouTube, yes, and there's a
log of that. So when we needed to find hey,
I think some witness at this point said this man
Shack would be right on that and he'd say it
was day one oh one at this time, and here's
the clip.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Oh that is useful.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
But yeah, it's a ton of work to get ready
for this. And you know who did the most work
of any single individual, Max Shart. Max Shart worked his asshole.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
I'm saying, yah, look good in that man.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Thank you. Well. I was in Max's like slipstream right
there behind him. But he was great.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, he was. He would always And what I what
I like about him too, is that when he's doing
the arguments, when he's positioning his arguments, he's all he's
never stuttering. I like this. I like when people are
smooth like that. It's never like I'm tripping over my
words and things. Right. He presented his arguments great every time.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's because he had of any attorney in that room, now,
they were we were all prepared. But as far as
absolute command of all the facts at his fingertips. Yes,
I don't know that anyone had more than that. Bay
would be a close second. But Max man, he had
it all up here.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Brian resources is Brian had the killery you playing with
a dog?

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, Max did all that pretty much on his own.
Maybe some help from shacks.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Right right right. I want to ask about the Let
me see, oh it says, okay, let's talk about this. Okay.
So one day in court there was an alleged drug transaction.
What was going on that day? Do you remember that
day in court?

Speaker 2 (27:23):
You know, it was early on. I think we're maybe
maybe we're still in I don't even remember if the
trial trial had started, if we were still injury, so
I guess the trialo's I don't even remember what was
it was before. I think it was early in the morning.
I think it was before court and there was an
alleged handoff from one defendant to another. I don't know
what was up with that. I don't even know if

(27:44):
the person receiving it had any idea what was being
put into his hand.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Whatever. What happens with stuff like that? Do it just
go away? If someone end up charge they rolled it
up in the situation, that's going on a lot.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Of times you can in Fulton County, a lot of
times you can end up charged. I don't think I mean,
I think it allegedly it was thug that received that,
but I don't think he picked up a charge from.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
That, right, Yeah. I always wonder what they do, like
how do they respond to that, or how do they
handle something like that, because you could, I don't think
you can charge him, But I was just they felt
it felt like they were reaching for straws at that point,
so you would think they would try to position that
and use that some kind of way. Unfortunately or fortunately,

(28:27):
they didn't do that.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
I know they were going after the guys any which
way they could exactly, And so I'm if he didn't
pick up and I don't think he picked up a charge,
which is the right thing to do, but they don't
always do the right thing right.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
And also, you know, if you ever been in jail
or you know around some of those guys who live
at rock Star Lifestyle bro their first ninety days, one
hundred and twenty days, six months is hard coming down
off them drills or trying to like your body is
doing a certain kind of fiend for this shit that
you will, you know, you'll go through hell. It was

(29:02):
a lot of that shit in the trial where they
allaized it. You know, hey, this person's trying to do that.
Did they ever come at you with that?

Speaker 2 (29:10):
The only thing they came at me with was one time,
I guess a girl was getting some clothes to Diamante
and it had to come through the lawyer, and she
like gave the clothes to Tasha, Miss Tasha, Diamante's mom.
Miss Tasha gave the clothes to me. I gave the clothes,
I guess to a deputy And it turned out allegedly

(29:33):
there was like contraband, and they made a huge deal
of a contraband contraband. It makes it sound like a
knife for a gun slipped in the corporate you know what.
The contraband was rolling papers and tobacco. Wow, But they
don't say that. They say contraband like like these are
like al Capone in there, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Crazy?

Speaker 2 (29:53):
So, I mean it's not supposed to be in there.
I didn't know anything about it. Miss Tasha didn't know
anything about it. It ended up going going away. I
think Caleb Bump has helped Miss Tasha out with that,
but they kind of came out. They came at the
attorney's lots. I mean, they came at one attorney for
having his like ADHD pills that weren't in the prescription bottle.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
That's what I was asking, Like say that what you say? Whatever, bro,
So that's what I was asking. I will wonder would
they be like over zealous? What far?

Speaker 2 (30:22):
You know, there was kind of at the beginning of
this trial. Okay, we had the Scorpions in the room
with us as I don't know what you want to
call them guards or courtroom security. Those guys, you know,
they're all swatted up and all their black outfits, and
I mean they're just like a modern day Scorpions are
just like a modern day version of Red Doll if

(30:43):
you remember that from Atlanta back in the day. And
these Scorpions were nothing but trouble, nothing but trouble. And
that was for the first few months of the trial.
But as soon as those guys went away and we
had regular deputies in there, and I know it sounds
kind of odd, but we all developed a very good
relationship with each other and every day was cool and
things settled down. But there was a time at the

(31:03):
beginning where we had.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
What they thought was going to be war something.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
I know what they thought was going to happen. They
thought somebody was going to come in there and break
them out. I don't know what they're thinking, but it
was ridiculous and it gave the public the wrong impression
of these guys. So you know what it was about, right,
What was it about. I'll tell you. I'll tell you.
There was a day they went in there and did

(31:27):
some kind of dumb ass raid right into the court room.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
What.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, they did something like courts and session. All of
a sudden, Judge Glanville calls a recess. He's like, we
got to take a recess. And and by the way,
that day, tons of media were in the room and
they hadn't been there before, right, because it wasn't the
beginning of trial. It was a couple of months in right.
And sure it's like somebody tipped I know for a
fact because I heard it. They tipped off the media.

(31:52):
They said, hey, something's going to happen today. They got
all the media in there, then they'd do some raid.
I don't even remember what they found, you know, but
basically they shook us all down. It was crazy and.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
The lawyers and precution.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
They kind of left the lawyers alone, but they were
messing with our clients. And again all for the press
because this whole thing. You know, if you saw Da
Madame Da Fannie Willis's initial press conference, she acted like
she rounded up the most dangerous criminals and all of Atlanta.
They're responsible for eighty percent of the crime and all
that stuff. She started off with that press conference. People

(32:29):
ask me, why are you always going on social media
talking about the trial, talking about Diamonte. They tried to
shut me up if you remember, did they Oh yeah,
they found emotion to shut member they did. I fought back.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, so they tried to They tried to put a
seat what.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
They tried to put a gag order on me, but
the judge, Judge Whittaker, wouldn't have in it. But my
point is, they do all this, the big press conference,
the media, all that stuff, right, they do that show
client can't afford to have a press team out there.
All he has to speak to the public is me.

(33:05):
They're out there trying to destroy his reputation. So you're
not going to do that to Diamante. That's not just
my client, that's my friend, that's family at this point. Yeah,
and and maybe I shouldn't be that close to him,
but you can't help it over that length. And I
wasn't going to let that happen.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
I just wouldn't let that happen. Now, I think, I
think you know, they started it on social media. She
brought it to social media, like you say, with a
grandiose announcement that I went and got Pablo Escotball King
Slim had in the shadow. I remember all of that.
Remember what they were saying. That man is hiding in
the shadows. He is the puppet master.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
They said he was like the wolf, the leader of
a wolf pack.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
So hard co I say, this sounded like the opening
of a book.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, they pulled that out of Jungle Book and Rudyard Kipling.
I mean, I like Rudgyard Kipling.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
You go to the best.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
So they pulled you know what they cited, Rudyard Kipling.
I sighted Killer Mike, Yes you would.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
We're gonna get to your closing arguments, your opening stuff.
Like I say, you, I think you poured from culture
and you intertwined it. What I find interesting about Thug
is that his fame and his music and shit is
you can't separate it almost. I always felt that will
be a challenge for Brian Steele because people that see
him see the rap of young thug. They don't see

(34:23):
Jeffrey with the children, with the You just see what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
I told Jeffrey. I told young I always call hi, Jeffrey.
I told Jeffrey. At the end, I said, you know,
this trial has been an awful experience for you, right,
I mean, you've been locked up in Cobbs. It's not
good away from your family. I said, but what if
there's any good thing about this trial? It brought to
light all the good that you do in that community

(34:48):
that you kind of keep on the lowdown. You don't
let everybody know about all the stuff you're doing. And
it's awful that you've been through this, but people can
see you reach down and reached into Cleveland Avenue and
you tried to pull people up. You didn't cut people off.
You're like, look, stop doing the crap you're doing. Come
with me. I'll give you some work on the road.

(35:09):
You do this legit stuff. And some of them took it,
like like Diamante, you know, yat Gotti he took it,
made the name, worked his ass off to get a
name for himself. And there's others that came up there.
You heard some testimony. He gave me a chance. I
screwed up on the road. He sent me home. But
he didn't forget the people. And not forgetting the people

(35:30):
that I don't think he'd be in this boat for that.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
It cost to custom. That's and that's the thing like
when they tell you everybody can't go. And I'm sure
now he looks at it, because you know, I always
felt like, what does he feel like? As they walk
it's home boy at this up next home. But they
walking these dudes down, putting them on the stand. So
my question to you is little Woody the inconsistencies of

(35:56):
Little Woody. But I want to I want to bag
back some on day one when when you're in a
scenario where you know the state is bringing in the
lead witness and we know it's Kenneth Copeland, it's little Woody,
what is the vibe over there in y'all corner because
we don't know we talking about before, we know his approach,
what he's gonna say, how he's gonna do this, What

(36:19):
is the vibe in that corner over.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I'll tell you I had been preparing. You asked about preparation.
Oh my gosh, I'd been preparing for Little Wooty since
day one, Max Brian, We're all ready for Little Woody.
Oh man? Did I have a cross examination written out
for Little Wooty? So? I mean I was ready for him.

(36:42):
I didn't know what he'd be like. Here's what I
knew about Little Woody. I knew what I saw in
those police interrogations. I knew what Diamante told me. So
I didn't know what I was going to get on
the stand of Little Woody. I didn't know it. But
I can tell you this, and people could probably understand.
I had to throw that whole cross examination out because
his testimony on the stand, that truthful testimony, that was

(37:07):
that was great.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
That was great, But it's it's I mean, it felt
like because from y'all standpoint, you will be like, yo,
I even want to ask thug, like, what did he
feel like with them walking this nigga down? That you
know he been around me? This dude been around me, right,
Not saying that we've done anything, but I'm just saying

(37:29):
he can get up here and nail me. Tea can
lie on me in a way that really affixed my
life for the rest of my life.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
He could. But you know what if you thought, if
he gets up there and just tells the truth, I'm golden.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Right, But he thinks that when he been lying in
the fucking interrogation room. He been laying all this time,
and so as as thug, I'm I'm probably sitting there like,
what is he feeling?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, I mean I didn't ask him what he was feeling,
but I'm not going to tell you what d was thinking.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
That that's private.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
But it was tense. It was tense.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
But when he gets on the stand, right, and then
he says, they say how old are you? And he said,
I'm grown and they say, well, how old is that?
He said, I'm an adult and they say, sir, how
many and he say, I plead the fifth in front
of the jury. What does that moment do in yld

(38:24):
corn Boy?

Speaker 2 (38:25):
The tension there. You talk about trials aren't supposed to
be like a movie, but this one was. It was
something else because you could see how Judge Glanville was upset.
We were upset, especially later on because we learned that
the prosecutors knew he was going to take the fifth.
And let me tell you something, if you know a
witness is going to take the fifth, you don't put

(38:46):
him on the stand. I mean, that's the rule.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
So especially in front of the jury.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
No, not in front of the jury. And that's what I meant,
not in from the jury if you know they're going
to take the fifth. So we were upset with the prosecutors.
You could see judge. Judge was upset with little Woody
for doing that, and I mean, lock that man up
over the weekend in terrible conditions on purpose.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
And that's what I mean about them. Like, as a lawyer,
I want to know how you guys are, like one
of those hallway meetings about like soon as after Boom
Woody does this, we head out in the hallway for
whatever reason. What is that?

Speaker 5 (39:25):
Like?

Speaker 1 (39:25):
What are we saying? How we feeling? Like this dude
is called by the state, but some people can argue
that he's not representing the state in a good way.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
But you know, when he takes the fifth like that
on the stand in front of the jury, I don't
think it's good for us as the defendants because it
makes it look like maybe he's afraid to testify against
I don't know what they're going to think from that exactly.
You know, that's like with a lot of these witnesses
one of the themes of the prosecutors because you all these

(39:57):
witnesses went south on the prosecution, right. They they got
up there and told the truth, which hurt the state's
case but helped us. And every time that, what would
the prosecution come back to it was, well, when these
guys weren't around, you said this, that and the other,
meaning like you're afraid of these guys. So that's why
i'm cross examination. We would point out you're not afraid

(40:18):
of these guys who are the only people that can
lock you up. They're sitting at that table over there.
It's the state exactly, and despite their ability to do that,
you get on the stand and tell the truth and
you risk that. So you see, like Monk Tunk, right,
Monk Tunk's doing five.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
He still went to jail. This is what I've been noticing.
Like I interviewed Birdman brother. He told he was a snitch,
and so I interview him and I asked him about
you know, because I want people to know if you
will if you. First of all, I want people to
know the streets don't pay. None is dead and no
value in the streets. That's the first thing I want

(40:52):
people to know. Number two, I want them to know
when these old niggas come home, they broke, they planned.
I don't want to hear no fake like they got.
They broke, They struggling, they need help, they need some money.
The streets don't pay. I don't care what these nigga
time about. Right. If you whatever you doing, do it,
get out of it, but don't laying in the streets.

(41:13):
So I interview bird Man brother, who is a known
inform and he did the five K one okay out
of the faz and so you know, I'm I'm kind
of grilling them about what he's you know, why he
did what he did, and how he did it. So
what was interesting to me is that I'm finding out
that a lot of these guys are telling and not

(41:33):
getting time took off.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
They shit.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
So I don't know what kind of like deals these
dudes are making, but they're literally giving information and still
going to jail. The mutunk dude got understand, Yeah, you know,
he tried to He tried not to do a whole lot,
but he did enough to validate certain things or or
alled certain things right true or untrue. He alled certain

(41:58):
things that would hurt the case, and then Steal went
to Jaim.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, you know, I'm sure your people that listen to
this and watch this know how this works, how this
game is played. But we need to make sure the
jury understood exactly, which because not all of them are
gonna know right, because they don't have all the same
background and everything. So they're locked up in Rice Street
and at that point they're locked up since May. It's
like December now, so they're locked up there for seven months.

(42:23):
Christmas is a week away. And they go to them
and they say, you sign this paper which we're gonna write.
Prosecutors is gonna write it. We're gonna write all this stuff,
all this crap, and all you have to do is
initial this and sign this paper and you go home.
You go home.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
It's your freedom in your face.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
And if you don't want to sign it, well you
can just stay locked up in Rice Street for god
knows how long, because we're gonna drag this trial out forever.
And given that choice, I don't blame I don't blame
us sing they call them snitches. I don't. I don't
blame any one of those people for signing that paper
to get home to their dying mom, to get home
to their kids so they can take care of their families.

(43:04):
I mean, that is a rational choice that makes sense,
and I'm not going to blame those people for it.
And I'll give them credit that when they took the stand,
they didn't repeat those lies. They got up on the
stand and they told the truth. And that's why I
think it's a shame Monktong went to jail.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, I mean, I'll give I'll you know, respectful. I
have to disagree with that, okay, because I think that
taking accountability and responsibility is the highest form of manhood.
So when you when you tell on somebody else so
you put somebody else in a situation, I can't respect that.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Well, I understand it. And I guess what I'm saying is,
I've never walked in their shoes. So we'll talk about
we'll talk about thug taking a pleaat right, but I've
never I've never walked in their shoes. So I Am
not going to criticize someone for something when I haven't
been there, and I don't know what I would do
in that situation.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
But it's the detriment of your buddy, it is. See,
that's the thing. I guess what you gotta keep in mind,
Like I get it right, self preservation kick in. But
at any event, I gotta look at that dude that
took me on them JITs, that dude that took me
across the world. I can't sign this paper and nail
him to the cross, even participate in nailing him too. Well.

(44:21):
There were people that made that choice that what I'm saying,
there were.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
People that that turned that away. I'm not going to
say why it sall was a gang. I'm not going
to do all that stuff and they stayed in the jail.
There are people that did that. So I have and
a great degree of respect for them. What I'm saying
is personally, I give people grace and I'm not going
to give them a hard time for doing right they did.

(44:44):
They got families, I get it, And now I know
thugs got a family too. Thogs got kids, thugs got and.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
You gotta remember, he's the one who could have distanced
itself from all of this, could have he could have said,
you know what, I'm I'm not doing none of this
no more because I can't. I can't a chaperone you
guys all day. So I'm gonna keep you dudes away
from it instead. I'm gonna have you around. When I
can't have you around, I can't applaud you netled him

(45:09):
to the cross. Now, what I can't say, Let's be
clear right now. What I can say is I get
self preservation kick in. And I also understand that that
is a part of the game. People are gonna take
those please, people are gonna snitch. This is part of it.
And I think they called Ug at a young age
before he had went through anything like that, you know
what I'm saying, So he didn't really, I don't. I

(45:31):
don't know if Thug really has ever seen it happen
like that that close, Like oh, these niggas that was
just with them went left, you know what I'm saying, Like, WHOA,
what's happening? I'm telling you, man, I would have nightmarees
if they would walk my homeboys in a fucking court
room and put them on a stadia.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
I get it, I get it. I guess. I guess
I'm just gonna be slow to criticize something when I
don't know their situation. Now, I'll applaud people all the
time for stuff, but I'm I'm always going to be
I'm always going to be a little slow to criticize me.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
I hope, I hope.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
That's my goal.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
So let me ask you this, what is the difference
between young Thugs plea and Gunna's plea?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Well, there's some big differences there, right, So Gunna pleads
out right away, right, he doesn't even get into the
trial part of the thing. The other thing is Gunna
signs off on all this bullshit that the state, right,
the state wants to put out that maybe didn't sign

(46:34):
off on all of it, but he I think he
signed off on why I slas a gang and all
this other crap. Right when they asked Jeffrey to do that,
Jeffrey pushed back, Right, Jeffrey, he could have taken a
negotiated plea, and he could have. They wanted him to
sign off on all these all these damn lies, right,
because that's all they care about. They don't care about

(46:56):
the truth. They care about getting a victory. So they
wanted him to sign off on all that stuff. Jeffrey
didn't do it, And what happens to Jeffrey by not
doing that? What happens to Thug by not doing that?
Because he didn't wouldn't sign off on all their little things?
Why I sell as a gang and all this other business.
He had to take that non negotiated plea, right, the

(47:16):
blind plea. He had to risk going to prison. He
risked going to prison partially so he wouldn't have to
sign off on all that stuff that were to hurt
the other guys.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
But like bro was just saying, yeah, right, there's a
scenario where you're still taking the risk when you're doing
this blind plea. Why not take the risk alongside? Brian
Steele waited out a couple more months because we also
have to examine the level of scrutiny Gunner has got, right,
Gunna has gotten a certain level of scrutiny for pleaing

(47:51):
out in the same way that some people are saying
that looks like Thug is now, for lack of a
better term, played out in the same way. But like
you said, there's some differences as it pertains to what
was agreed on and what was actually admitted to it.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
I mean there are. There are those differences like I
talked about, and I'm gonna go back to the same
thing that I said earlier. I'm just not going to
criticize Gunna for doing what he did. I understand everybody
is that y'all's community can do it if you want to.
I'm just not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do
it because I'm not in that situation. So Gunna did

(48:30):
whatever he chose that thought he had to do. Thug
did what he had to do. I wish, I wish
Jeffrey would have stuck it out till the end, gone
through it, but he had to. You know, he had
to make those decisions for himself, and I'm not going
to criticize him for it. The other thing is, I mean,

(48:52):
just honestly, it's hard for me to criticize the guy
that I sat by for two years. You know what
would that say about me?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Well, I mean, the truth is never disrespect and I
know Thug come from my walk of life, so he
understands that, right. The truth is never disrespect right. And
that's why when I stand out on the hill, I'm
from a neighborhood, I'm from a town. If I wasn't
who I said I was, and dudes brought that to
the light that ain't that could not ever be disrespectful,

(49:20):
right because I ain't got no business acting like something
that I'm not. I don't play this food gazy game
with nobody. You see what I'm saying. What it is
is what we're gonna address it as. And that's just
how it is, cut and dry. Let me ask you
this from a lawyer's perspective, From a legal perspective, is
there any difference between Thug's plea and Gunner's plea? Not

(49:42):
because you sat next to him two years Is there
a scenario where you, as a lawyer say those two
are the same things? And the reason I asked this
is because Gunner's lawyer is positioning it that way. He's saying, basically, yo,
y'all a ma at at Thug. I'm sorry, y'all are
mad at Gunner? When Thug is kind of in the
same scenario to that, what do you say.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, Well, I mean, I totally understand the position that
Gunn is lawyers taking. I mean, there's there are differences,
but they're fine differences, right, And those are kind of
the differences that I brought up, which is that that
the plea that Gunna took said some things in it
that Jeffery's plea did not say. And that's I guess

(50:23):
the main difference between the two. I mean, if there's
a difference in the pleas, it's that. But I get,
I get, and I guess it's Steve sayda, that's Gunn's.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Lawyer, right, yes, yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
So again I get what Steve's saying, because you guys
are criticizing Gunner for pleading out and Thug played out,
and it's pretty much I totally get that position of
his I understand it. There were just a few differences
between them, but there were some differences.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
And here here's another difference that you know, for on
Thug side is that Yo, Thug was noted as the
king of this, So there's really no one to tell on.
Who do I tell on? If I'm Thug? Like, who
do I tell on? There's no one to tell on.
But all of these dudes can kind of implicate me

(51:10):
of being some kind of head of something, but I
have no one to.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
The Other thing is I don't think Thug really had
the opportunity to play out early. I don't think the
state even gave him that choice.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
They wanted to.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
They wanted thug. The target was thug, and they would
do anything to get thug. The target was on his back,
well on gunn Is back. I don't know why gun was. Honestly,
I don't know why Gunn was wrapped up in all this. Anyway,
they had they had really to get.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Him to cooperate. That's why they went and got him.
They went and got him. They probably looked at his
record as his ship and was like, if we get him,
he'd probably at least give us some information. We won't
got much on him.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
He didn't cooperate at all.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I mean, he didn't cooperate at all.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
No, he signed what he had to sign to get
the hell out of there, but he didn't pray, he
didn't testify. None of that happened with Ghanna. I didn't
think people should have been given Gunna hell, and I
still don't.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
So as the defense team over there for Yat gott it,
you don't see an issue with Gunna saying that this
is a game.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
I'm not happy that he said it, but you know what,
I can explain that to the jury and his lawyer knows.
I can explain that to the jury, and we did
over and over again, Max and I, everybody, we all
explained it to the jury, and you know what the
jury understood. So what Ghanna did didn't hurt us at all.

(52:34):
Didn't hurt us at all.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Wow, that's a heavy statement. It's true.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Yeah, I'm saying it because it's true. Right, he didn't
hurt us.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
And you played in between the whistles, so you know,
you know he was there. Yeah, you were done.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Look that entire trial, that two year trial. Nothing Gunna
said ever came up before the jury. So how can
his plea have hurt me? Hurt Yack? It didn't.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
So do you think thug should help.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Their public opinion? They spun it right?

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Do you think thugs should not be mad at Gunna?

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh, I'm not going to tell anyone how they should feel.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Okay, I mean, well, I guess there's a heavy question. Yeah,
but I mean I'm wondering if all right, Well, I'm
just not yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Mean you may not like that answer, but that's where
I'm going to stay.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
No, I'm not going to tell anyone how to feel
about anything.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Else, right, right, I respect it that's.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
An age thing, man. I've learned that. I don't get involved.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Man.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, yeah, you want to go get divorced. I'm not taking.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Sides right right? How much long are you going to
practice law?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Probably fifteen more years more? What am I that old?
Look at this.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
You've been doing it thirty that's forty five years.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I started in I got my bar license in ninety eight,
and I was doing it while in law school in
ninety six. Not quite thirty yet. That's okay. I love it.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
You enjoyed. That's what you want to do, something you
enjoy for the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
I mean, yeah, what else would I do? I mean,
I I do this because I like it. I also
got a nine year old, so that helps.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
You got a nine year old? What kind of boy
are you getting?

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Boy?

Speaker 1 (54:12):
You still getting beers out there? See mouth. Let's let's
get back to Woody. So, yeah, do you did you
see a difference between the way Woody handled you and
your side versus how we handled the prosecution.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
You know, I want to say I did, But there's
a reason for it, and he he's told me the
reason for it. He's gone public and explained the reason
for it. When he's in that courtroom. The prosecutors did
not treat him with respect at all, not at all,
not good morning, not anything like that. And he said

(54:53):
he'd see us in the hallway right because you're all intermingled.
Good morning. How you doing?

Speaker 1 (54:57):
You know?

Speaker 2 (54:57):
We we we treated him like who he was, a
human being, yes, And the prosecutors never did that. They
never saw a human being. The prosecutors get up there
and talk about how much they care for the community,
all this stuff and this trial and all that other stuff,
and you watch how they treated their own witnesses, and
you tell me, those are people that are concerned for

(55:20):
the community. I tried to treat every witness with dignity
and respect. Yes, And I think with Woody, I mean,
I think he'd have told the truth regardless. But if
you saw a difference in the way he treated us,
I think that's because we treated him differently than the
prosecution did.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
What were you think how many days did the prosecution
deal with wood It before they passed him over? Do
you remember?

Speaker 2 (55:45):
That's a tough one. I'm going to say it was
maybe a week or so.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
It was just a week. I thought it was longer
than well, you.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Know, The problem is he came on and then the
judge was recused until three or four days of his testimony.
We got completely thrown out, and then he had to
redo it all again. So it depends on how you're counting.
I don't count any of the initial stuff because it
was all thrown out. I think the amount of stuff
that stayed in was maybe about a week, or it

(56:11):
could have actually may have been longer because they were
they were playing all those interview tapes, so maybe he
was up there two or three weeks.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
And that's what I want to get to. At what
point did you you guys started to notice, Oh, they're
impeaching it. They're they're they're they're impeaching their own witness Now.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
They were always impeaching their own witnesses.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
What's that about. We'll do that.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
They believe that they were lying on the stand. Here's
the whole thing. They wanted to play that interview tape
of little Woodie. That's what they wanted and that's they
wanted to do that with all the interview tapes they
wanted to play.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
So strategy to it was their strategy.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
They put them up there and if they lie or not,
life they don't tell them.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
If they don't say what.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Story, then to the prosecutor, fine, that's great, we're gonna
play that videotape.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
So I mean that seems like a counter intuit of
approach of you saying, hey, I want you to believe
this person, but then I'm gonna tell you this person
is lying and that this is what.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Well, you know, I think the initial approach is and
by the way, the prosecutors knew this would happen, but whatever,
I think their initial approach was, we're gonna put him
up there. If they say what we want him to say, cool,
we're good. If they don't say what, we're going to
what we wanted to say, we're going to play the
interviews and then we get in what we want anyway.

(57:30):
So I think in my I mean, I don't want
to get in their heads, but I think they thought
win win either way, we're golden. But that's not the
way it worked, because they actually the best at explaining it.
Was Wooty when he would say I was finessing the police, right,
that was this big thing, I'm finessing the police, And
he explained his strategy like he explained what he was doing.

(57:52):
He was like, I give him some grains of truth.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Yes, some grains of truth.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
So if they want to go check that out, you
know they can see that, and that backs my story
up a little bit. So I sprinkle in a little
bit of truth with a bunch of these lives. I
tell him what they wanted to hear. What do they
want to hear? They want to hear thugs involved in
all this. They want the big fish, That's what they want.
So I give them what they want. Why because I
don't want to wear that blue jumpsuit. I don't want
to wear that Rice Street stuff.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, so after, let's let's go back to They took
him to jail because he played the fifth He came
back with a different attitude. He came back basically start
to answer some questions. It wasn't the you know, run
around he was giving them. Did that alert y'all about
that secret meeting? Or what alerted y'all?

Speaker 2 (58:39):
I mean, the only reason we knew about the secret
meeting is that somebody tipped us off that the meeting
took place, and we learned about and then we had
a lunch meeting with the person that tipped us off
and got we being myself and Max Shart and Brian
Steele and who was the fourth one that was in there,

(59:01):
Caleb maybe, Keith I think Keith maybe in the fourth
defense attorney.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
So we got in there for bad boy too.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
He is he is my role model for how I
went across. The man is smooth, charismatic, He was as
super curious, fixated on him when he's crossing. He is
one of the guy. He is the guy. Anyway, we
learned about all that. All that happened during lunch, and
that's when Brian, I think, volunteered basically to be the

(59:31):
one to approach Judge Glanville and say what the heck?

Speaker 1 (59:35):
And I'm so respected how Brian Steele? And this is
why I respect lawyers, right, because it's always mental gymnastics
and mental jiu jitsu. It's always you know, mind tricks. Right.
So when Brian Steele got up and he spoke to
Glanville about it, it was interesting because you hear the

(59:56):
public say that it's crazy that we're on a Rico
trial and the judge is trying into out a snitch.
He's not even allowing for them to bring information to
him that is clearly wrong. Despite who gave it to you.
Something happened that was that was not good, bro, so
you should just add it that way. But I respected
the fact that Brian still stayed on offense while Glenville

(01:00:19):
was trying to get him to go on defense like
he done something wrong. He stayed on offense and that technique.
I said, Oh that was deep. Yeah, yeah he is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Brian Steel is just the master, right. And so Judge
Glenville kept wanting to try to change the subject. Who
told you, who told you? Who told you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
This is important?

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
And Brian Steele is like, that's not the issue.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Who told me is like who told you? I stole
the cookies from the COOKI exactly, That's not the issue.
The issue is let's talk about what happened. Let's talk
about the substance. You know, because you, Judge Glenville, you
should have told us about that meeting, yes, because that's
the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Right, So it doesn't matter. Right. So for the people
who do not know, explain to them this meeting we're
talking about, and how we'd entertwine or saycase.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
What happened was after little Woody spent the weekend in
the Cab County jail, they brought him back, and we
were supposed to start court at nine or nine thirty.
Court didn't start till eleven or eleven thirty. We didn't
really question it because Court's always starting late because he's
the chief judge. He's got stuff he has to do
for whatever reason. We were always starting late, so we
didn't think that much of it. We start late. He

(01:01:27):
takes a stand. We learn, right, here's a meeting. Who's
at the meeting that morning? There's a meeting that morning.
Chief Judge Glanville's in the meeting. Simone Hilton is in
the meeting. Kenneth Copeland is in the meeting, Deputies are
in the meeting. Investigator two's in the meeting. And what's
that meeting about? That meeting is about coercing Kenneth Copeland

(01:01:49):
to testify via immunity. They've given him immunity, so he
actually was required by law to testify. But then Judge
Glanville is up there going, look, if you don't testify,
I'm going to keep you locked up. And I'm not
just going to keep you locked up till the end
of this trial. There's fourteen more people to try. Actually
more than that, fourteen more people to try and I'm

(01:02:10):
going to keep you locked up till they're tried as well,
which by the way, is not the law. That's coercion
right there, and he is not allowed to do that.
The other thing is, if you there are certain times
you can have this ex party meeting a meeting without
both sides there, but that wasn't one of them. But
if you have one, you're required to tell the other side, Hey,
you had this meeting. He never told us that meeting

(01:02:32):
took place. There was so much wrong there, and I
really get into it when I when I filed my
motion to disqualify it that you won the court, several
us filed it. I was the one that went to
Judge Glanville. That was a Monday that that happened. I
went to him on Wednesday, and actually I was a
little nervous about this, but I had to go to

(01:02:52):
him in court and give him the paper and in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Person serving in person, basically serving.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
I had to go up to him and say, you know, Judge,
I'm serving. You know, I'm giving you, I'm presenting. I'm
presenting you with this motion to disqualify, and certain things
have to happen. When that happens. You know, if I
meet certain criteria, he has to kick it out to
another judge to decide. And he didn't do that. That's
why he eventually was off the case.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
And see, we well we unpack it. This is a
lot to un so wow, so okay, bag up. So
Woody is cohersed into testifying by telling him basically how
to testify, because they were clearly they were clearly not

(01:03:39):
happy with the way he was handling the prosecution.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Yeah, and they did, in a way tell him how
to testify it. So, for example, they told him, and
I'm generalizing, but they basically told him, you get up
there and say whatever you want. But if you say
that you are responsible for the death of Donovan Thomas,
we're gonna go after here for We're going after you
for everything. Say whatever you want, but don't say that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Imagine that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I can't imagine. The whole thing was unimaginable. I mean,
I wish there would have been a camera looking at myself, Keith,
Brian and Max, because goodness, I've been doing this thirty years.
I never even heard of anything like what happened that
morning in Judge Granville's chambers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
So when you take this to the Supreme Court. Yeah,
do you go and tell Brian Steele? Do you guys
have a conversation like, Hey, I'm about to try to
recuse this guy or get him off of the trial.
At this point, it's been too much just going on.
Or how does that happen

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Doug Weinstein | YSL Trial EXPOSED: Doug Weinstein on Young Thug vs. Gunna Pleas, Lil Woody’s Secret & Fake Evidence! PT-1

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Doug Weinstein | YSL Trial EXPOSED: Doug Weinstein on Young Thug vs. Gunna Pleas, Lil Woody’s Secret & Fake Evidence! PT-1