March 5, 2024 • 35 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by actress Caterina Scorsone who currently stars as Dr. Amelia Shepherd in the groundbreaking hit ABC series, Grey's Anatomy. Caterina has played this fan-favorite character for about 14 years, appearing on Private Practice, Grey’s Anatomy, and Station 19, becoming a beloved staple in the Shondaland universe. Her character means so much to so many people for a variety of different reasons, one being that she has become the longest running queer character on television. Today, she opens up about her journey playing a character that is so close to her heart, the importance of her queer love story with Dr. Kai, her hopes for the future with that relationship, how she treats her character’s struggle with addiction with thoughtfulness and care, her love for the spin-off series Station 19, how she has created a positive relationship with grief, taking time to nurture her spirit so that she can be the best version of herself, and what we can look forward to when the new season of Grey’s Anatomy drops on March 14th.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tommy di Dario today's episode. It is a special
one because my guest is full of so much love
and positivity and wisdom, and she just makes you feel
like you're wrapped up in a comforting blanket every single
time you listen to her talk. Katerina Scorzonee, Yeah, I
(00:22):
said that in the Italian way scorsone. Oh my god,
I love that name. She joins the show today. She's
an incredible actress best known for her work on the
groundbreaking ABC series Grey's Anatomy. Now she stars in the series,
which is, by the way, about to hit season twenty
on March fourteenth, and she plays Amelia Shepherd and has
played this role for about fourteen years now. Oh and
(00:43):
it's also the longest running queer character on television. I
love that so much. Yes, for representation. Now, when people
think of Grey's Anatomy, they think of Katerina. She is
such a beautiful artist that means so much to so
many people in the world. We reflect on her journey
Gray's Anatomy. Of course, we talk about that queer love
story with Kai that so many people have been deeply
(01:05):
invested in we show the spinoff series Station nineteen Some Love,
and Katerina gets really, really well real about the person
she is behind the character she is so well known
for playing. So let's see if today we can get
Katina to say something that she has never said before.
(01:28):
Kat Arena, it is so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's great to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh my gosh, I feel like whenever we talk, and
it's been one other time on my Instagram live Pandemic show,
but I remember thinking I never want this conversation to end.
So my biggest challenge will be trying to not take
eighteen hours of your day and make this a concise,
fun conversation because we could talk for.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Hours, like meander it. It was all over the place, but
it was one of my favorites. I had a really
fun time during that interview. I will still like grab
clips of it and like them in other things and
send them or like there'll be We talked about so
many things that I think there are a lot of
like theme months that it'll be part of a compilation
of that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well Part two, Here we go, you ready, yeah, here
we go? All right? Well, first of all, March fourteenth,
it's coming up. It's right around the corner.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Season twenty.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Even hearing that, I'm like, season twenty, how how I know?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I know?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Are you so excited?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
What would you be? You'd be like a sophomore if
you were born when grade started.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, you'd be a sophomore in college. That's incredible, that's incredible.
Are you so excited for this new season?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I actually really am. I think part of it is
that it was like against all odds, Like we had
the pandemic and then we had the strike, and you know,
there were so many cataclysms that were making it like impossible,
and here we are and we have a shorter season
because of the strike. So usually we do like twenty
four episodes, and then we did some shorter ones during COVID.
(03:02):
But this is ten and so this is like super
action packed. We have to like get everything exciting from
twenty episodes and pack them into ten, and so it's
going to be a good one.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And you've been playing the character of Amelia for what
thirteen fourteen years in total?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Now like fourteen years?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, that is wild. So what still keeps it exciting
for you? Like, well, what's the most fun part about
playing this character still after all those years, I.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Think that they become real, you know what I mean,
Like they're they're a fourteen year old at this point,
and so I don't think I mean, I think a
way to firm it that would not work for a
career and a job like this is that like, oh
now I know what it is. But if you kind
of keep it like having a relationship with a real
(03:47):
human being, you're not like, well, they're fourteen, so no
longer interested. You're like, wow, they're fourteen. Look at all
they've learned, and look at how they've grown, and what's
going to happen next and will they be happy? So
it's a very similar relationship. I think that the audience
has to the character.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So you still very much feel attached to Amelia.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh yeah, good lord, I'm rooting for her.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
A lot of people are rooting for her a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, I need you feel that. I mean, I think again,
you as you kind of go out in the streets now,
which we weren't able to do for a while, there's
these real potent relationships with the people who are watching
the show and who have attached to the characters, and
you meet them and there is like this wild kind
of cosmic familiarity where they truly have like through Amelia,
(04:36):
they like through your avatar, they've seen into themselves. And
so you share these like really intimate moments with perfect strangers,
and I think it really kind of reminds us that
we're all like this intimate family ultimately, once you kind
of line up the context and understand each other in
(04:58):
that way, like there is this deep familiarity that we
all have because we're human beings.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah. Absolutely, Has there been a really impactful or extra
meaningful moment for you that stands out playing her over
all those.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Years you mean, like in the narrative in her story
or like out in the world.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I guess both.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I mean there's so many. I think that one of
the things, you know, we kind of laugh about Shondalane
and how it's like such a rollercoaster and all of
the characters have been put through a meat grinder multiple
times and live or don't. But I think really the
big thing is, like, I mean, she's been through so
many things, so many losses, and so many massive tragedies,
and then so many reassemblages of herself that really it's
(05:44):
just the resilience of her spirit, and I think that's
what keeps it so vital now, like the resilience of Amelia,
just like going to work and being a doctor and
being excellent in her field and being fascinated with this,
like love affair with medicine and science, the resilience of
her soul after having gone through all of this is
so potent and incredible that in each moment, I feel
(06:08):
like it's kind of the moment.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
She has a lot of qualities and characteristics that mean
so much to so many people across the board for
many different reasons, one of them being, of course, the
storyline with you and Kai and the queer community feels
so incredibly seen and validated and represented on a primetime show,
(06:31):
which I always say, you know, with streaming, yes, you
see it more and more and more, but I would argue,
you don't really see things like that on primetime as
much as we should in this day and age. And
of course, yeah, that relationship was something that people really
latched onto. Of course, Kai was the first non binary character,
one of the first on television that I've seen. What
did that relationship mean to you? To get to explore?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, I mean I think you're right. I think it
was incredible, especially on primetime, and I think a lot
of our audience, you know, I think right now politically,
gender is being politicized so violently right now, and like
really leaning into like gender apartheid, where it's like this
or it's this, and so having a non binary character
(07:14):
and getting familiar with the vocabulary around gender I think
was something that for the Grey's audience. Obviously we have
like a big cohort who had been exposed to that
language and those ideas, and then there was a lot
who happened and so having it approached in such a organic, romantic,
(07:34):
sexy the plot not being about that way, I think
was huge for the community and for all of us
like to really start to question, like, well, what the
heck are we talking about? And so I think that
that storyline was massive and magical, and er fight Master
brought it to life in such an incredible way, and
(07:55):
so I just feel like super honored that I got
to be a part of that conversation and the and
the community that's like embraced that storyline is so important,
especially right now, like you know, with what has recently
happened to next and like all of the kind of
political jockeying that's taking place. I think that being like bold, sexy, confident, funny,
(08:18):
romantic representation in this moment is so so so important
for morale and everyone's mental health. And so anyway, I
just am like thrilled that I get to be a
part of that.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And the breakup crushed people. It crushed the fandom. They
can't believe it. It's something I've seen on like Twitter
and people are like, oh my god, is there a
chance for them to reconcile? I mean, what do you
think might they get back together?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean, I think again, like we saw Derek again,
Like anything can happen in shondaland anything can happen right now.
You know. Ear fight Master is right now doing a
bunch of other things. They've got like a musical project,
and they're working with Netflix, and there's like a bunch
of things going on for them, you know, professionally in
(09:05):
other ways, and so I don't think they're available, but
at some point, who knows, who knows. I'd always be
open to it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And it's so fun to see you talking about Er
because it's evident that you both grew very close and
have a genuine, true friendship. I imagine seeing Er exit
the show was not ideal, right, It was probably a
little tough.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I mean, I think for everybody, they really kind of
like stepped onto set and it was like hilarious magic,
and so I think everybody was like sad to see
them go. But also that's kind of how our show operates.
And I think they kind of did what they needed
to do in terms of they're so massively articulate about
the mission right now and helping people to understand and
(09:50):
reframe in their minds what gender fluidity is and how
beautiful and fun and magic and creative queerness is.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
That.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I think a platform like Gray's Anatomy served to like
really open the eyes of a lot of people, and
they got to have some really important conversations, and they
brought together tons of people who never would have maybe
connected with even parts of themselves, let alone community, you
know of friends and within the community. And then they
(10:21):
got to go out and do other things to like
further that mission. And so yeah, I mean, I just
think it was like a wonderful experience, you.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Know what, Yes to all of that, and yes to
you being a I'm going to say a queer icon.
I mean you are like the queer community. Literally, you're
an icon like Madonna is, like I don't know, got
gay is? I mean you were somebody who now is
is so meaningful to that community because you have much
for it.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think that every queer person is an icon. I
really think that the ability to psychologically deconstruct the like
force of how to normative patriarchy as a person, as
a young person who then like courageously unfolds and finds
community despite all odds and despite kind of the violence
(11:11):
that is like all around. I think that anyone who
has the mental flexibility and courage and grace to explore
themselves and then be that kind of creative miracle in
the world walking around is an icon. And so yay.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
When you got the script on day one of playing
this role, did you know that her storyline was going
to go towards, you know, exploring her queerness or was
that a surprise for you? Is that something that just
kind of came up.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Mameily was originally written as a queer character, and so
the very first episode that she appeared in on Private Practice,
she was in a relationship with her like fellow, the
doctor that she was, and then and somehow just in
the like edit, we had too many minutes and that
story kind of went away, and then the whole story
went in other directions. But she was originally conceived of
(12:09):
as a your character, and so I think that that
was always there, and so then when it came about
I mean, we had the conversation before we'd actually talked
in the season, before Amelia had Scout, we'd talked about
Karna and Amelia being together and we kind of made
(12:29):
reference to it. I think Owen and Karina ended up
hooking up at one point and Amelia walks in and
was like, I was jealous of Owen. There have been
little sprinkles throughout that it could go in this direction,
but then it didn't happen until now, and thank god.
I mean, this was first of all, you know may
I mean, that had to happen. That was like an
(12:49):
epic relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And then you're a fan of that relationship, you're pro them.
Nineteen is We're going to talk about that in a minute,
because I know there's some crossover and people love that
relationship too, But that relationship and the relationships you've been
in really are two super meaningful ones, which is so
it's so cool to see when art affects people in
such a positive way like that. I always think that's
(13:10):
just so damn beautiful. But aside from that storyline, I
know a lot of people relate to your character because
of the struggle with addiction, and that's so hard and
real for so many people. There's people in my life
who have dealt with that. So what for you has
been the most difficult thing to tap into with that storyline?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I think I always want to make sure that we're
understanding the depth of the psychology behind addiction. And it
can be kind of looked at through so many lenses,
and there's the kind of like, oh, it's an allergy,
and there's like all of these different ways to conceive
of addiction. But I think whether it came first or
whether it happens later, trauma is always a component, you
(13:51):
know what I mean, Whether trauma kind of led to
life choices that head into addiction because of isolation, or
whether through the course of battling the addiction there are
scenarios that arise that become traumatizing. It's usually like a
big piece of recovery is like kind of unpacking where
(14:12):
the trauma lies and where the where this psychological loneliness
or isolation is that the substance of choice, whether it's
drugs or alcohol or shopping or toxic relationships or whatever,
the addiction is what attachment need that's serving and kind
of filling. And so wanted to always approach the storyline
(14:35):
not just as like she can't stay away from drugs,
but like she's this really multifaceted human who unfolded in time.
And I mean when she's five, her dad was literally
shot in the head in front of her, Like that's
not okay, you know what I mean? And then she
didn't have a dad, and she had four other siblings
and mom was depressed, and you know what I mean,
(14:58):
Like there was so much that was leading to this
like deeply, deeply lonely state that she was kind of
mentally developing in and looking for relief from. And so
I always in playing that storyline when I make it
more complicated and deep than just she can't stop taking
that substance. Why can't she try harder?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
You know, well you do that. You bring so much
compassion to that part of her life. And I think
that's why so many people are so just in love
with how you've portrayed Amelia, and I imagine that's probably
one of the more rewarding parts of your job and
playing her is when you hear people say, oh my God,
like thank you for shutting a light on what it
really is like to battle addiction.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, you kind of want to make people, not make people.
You want to invite people to. I think sometimes, especially
with hard stuff like addiction or parts of themselves that
they're not comfortable encountering. Sometimes by creating this like lovable,
flawed character, people have the opportunity to kind of in
(16:03):
a safe container i e. Like our episode or our
storyline or through this character, they get to touch parts
of themselves that they are uncomfortable with or haven't forgiven
or haven't healed, or they need some sort of resolution
and they can't get it in their own life, and
so we offer an opportunity to kind of like safely
(16:26):
touch into those really hard feelings and then maybe who knows,
but maybe they'll kind of have the courage then or
the self acceptance to like make a move in their
own actual situation or not, or they've gotten what they needed.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know, how have you become so in touch with
who you are and with life and with people and
with standing on the right side of things, because you're
somebody who just emits this like radiant, positive, beautiful, flowing energy.
And it's very interesting that when I meet someone like that,
and it's often there's always oh, I don't want to
(17:03):
come out the wrong way. I think a lot of
people want to be that, and they try to be
that and they act like that, but it's not who
they are to their core. But you're all that.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
First of all, thank you. I feel like I'm blushing
and I don't know what to say, so I'm going
to try. First of all, from a very young age,
I started meditating and so like my spiritual life is
like a big part of my life, and I think
through that it was able to burn away a lot
of the part that wants me to look at myself.
(17:32):
And so when someone says something like that, I'm very
aware that the light that you're perceiving is not mine,
you know what I mean? Like it's I think I've
I've tried to get out of the way as much
as I can, and not every day am I out
of the way, let me tell you, But when I
am when if someone's having that experience with me, somehow
(17:54):
my daze has gone away from looking at the meanness
of it, and I'm just kind of getting out of
the way. And you're having an experience actually of your
own light that I haven't like distracted you from by
making you look at me. There's something bigger that we're
both a part of, and you're just tapping into it
(18:15):
because I didn't distract you from it in that moment.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I think that's an interesting perspective. Yeah, No, I totally
get what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
And you can't recognize something that you don't.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Have interesting, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's in you and we're just having this like little
moment in space and time where it became available to
us both. Well.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I want all the moments in the world like that,
because it feels good and I am here for it.
You mentioned earlier, Karina and Station nineteen is such a
beloved show, and of course the recent news came out
that the show is being canceled, and I know, oh,
everyone's just so upset about it. I had Danielle Savory
on the show. We talked about it, and people just
(18:57):
can't believe it. I happen to have hope that it
is going to get picked up somewhere. Yeah, and I
really do believe that. But I know you've crossed over
and you've done the show, Like, are you bumped to
see that one go?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I am? I mean, well, I don't know some but
I've crossed over this season. Yes, of course I'm sad
to see it go. I mean, the only the only
nice thing would be that maybe there and I don't know,
we don't know how it's gonna go, but maybe some
of those actors can come over and play with us
some more.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
That would be so.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Cool, right, And Peter Page is over there, fantastic director.
There's like some people that I would like definitely like
take back if it's gonna be not happening. But of course,
like we hope it goes somewhere else. But yeah, I
mean that's part of our world. Yeah, yeah, And we
get to usually like we have to like tee up
(19:49):
disasters and then have them come to the hospital, which
I think it's harder this year because the hours are reversed,
so now you can't quite do it that way because
there's a disaster there. But we've already heard so they're
going to have to come in.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Next to me. Little technicality. That's amazing. Yeah, it's it's
I know that the fans love that show. I know
that you've been on it and you've you've done a
lot of fun things over there too. And you mentioned Karina.
That would have been wild to see happening. It happened
right had had you and Karna ended up in some
sort of thing, I know, and that relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
At first, when I heard it was over, I was like,
or that it was ending potentially, I was like, oh,
maybe Kreen will come back and we'll actually end up
getting to play that storyline. But I think actually that
ship is so important to people, you know, in the
queer community. I think that's pretty epic. So I don't
know what they're planning on doing, but but that's you know,
(20:43):
right off into the sunset somehow we.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Love a sunset moment.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, is it weird.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
For you to imagine this character not being a part
of your life at this point because it has been
so long, I mean, she's.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Gone, you know. It's funny, it is. It does feel
a bit like like you know how when you're dreaming,
you're like super in the story and then as you're
telling it, you're like, and then we were, you know,
in Holland, and then we got out of the elevator
and it was Alaska, and so and so the whole
(21:18):
character has all made sense. But like Amelia now and
Amelia at the beginning are so different. So she's part
of the same dream, but she keeps changing. And I
feel like if I was no longer playing her, I
think it would kind of feel like that, Like it
would just feel like waking up from a dream and
it's in you. All of the benefit of that dream
(21:40):
that has made you, like process, the feelings and the
wisdom and the pain that it helped you process is
still in your waking life. But you know, it's just
in a different form.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
That's beautifully said. I'm somebody who's so sentimental, and I
grow very attached to things. I don't know if it's
my Italian background or very emotional and sappy, but I
just I don't know. I always think about things like that,
and it's hard for me to I don't want to
say change, but to let go of things that mean
a lot to me. Not that you're doing that right now,
but it's just such an interesting concept that when that
(22:14):
day comes, like is that a weird feeling? So I'm
always fascinated well, and I.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Don't think in some ways the show's so international at
this point and it's streamable and so truly like new people.
We have like three generations watching at the same well
have like a grandma and a mom and a kid
all watching together. Like it's become a part of this
like cultural Youngian psyche I think, where we just like
(22:40):
represent pieces of human interior life. And so I feel
like even if the show stopped, I'm still going to
be having those conversations when I go to a restaurant
and someone's like, this is what that storyline meant to me,
and this is what that story So I think it
will be in my life in ways, probably for most
of the time that I am like still a functioning person.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
That's the beauty of creating a character that is so
important to so many And yes, I know the writers
are incredible and have really developed this over the course
of the twenty seasons, but I also know that it's
the artists that bring them to life and are able
to really connect the character and the show with the audience.
So it's a really cool thing. Is there something of
(23:24):
hers that you just like treasure so much that you
wish you could take home right now and leave at home.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Like something that she owns, like a physical material thing.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, I mean the scrub cap.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, the scrub gap so good. We all have our own,
like you know, and I think Amelia's scrub cap in particular.
Everyone's scrub cap usually like tips a hat to something
in their personality, and I feel like Amelia's so beautifully
captures it almost looks like these firing neurons. It's like
kind of like little firework images, but it could be
(23:56):
like dendrites and neurons, and so I feel like the
gap would like go in a little frame somewhere.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Does that ever get itchy?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It's not so bad. It's cotton. I mean, well, have
looked at we're like in our pajamas on set with
like running shoots on. It's the best like Hollywood outfit
you could possibly wear. I think that's why when we
like get a people's choice of word and we all
see each other dressed up, we're so excited.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
We're like, you're hot, right, we came out of our sweats.
I so appreciate you celebrating the show and your character,
because it is again something that I know everyone's really
eager for it to come back in a couple of weeks,
and even after all these years, it still has such
(24:39):
an intense and beautiful and passionate fandom around it. So
is there something that you've learned a really amazing, incredible
life lesson since starting the show that has always kind
of stuck with you?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, So I think something that has been coming to me,
like in like Beautiful Waves especially. I mean, obviously it
accelerated during the pandemic, but you can see it in
Grays and through the twenty years of Grace, And I
don't know if you know my house burned down like
last January.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, I'm so sad to see that on social media
when you post to that.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it was like a super intense situation. But again,
like that happened, and then like in the aftermath, like
so much community came and like helped us rebuild our
lives and like brought toys for the kids and toothbrushes
and clothes and like it ended up being this really
beautiful regeneration. But it was kind of like the end
(25:35):
of like a kind of a chapter of like pandemic
and COVID and like all of this like intense world loss,
and I think you see that in Grays as well,
Like through the twenty years, there's been so much intense,
intense tragedy. And I think that the way people survive,
and I don't mean survive, like even in the pandemic
(25:58):
people died, like, but the spirit survives it is by
learning how to create a positive relationship with grief. And
I talked about it at Payleafest and that was kind
of the first time some of those words had come
out of my life, and it's really been refining in
my mind that we kind of look I think in
American culture especially, we look at grief as something terrible
(26:21):
that we don't want to be near. But actually grief
is the process of reconciling with what is, and what
is in every moment is actually full of love and life.
And so as long as we haven't grieved, we're in
the past trying to experience something that's not here anymore.
(26:44):
So our experience is actually more hollow and thin and
not nourishing because we're over here and actually life has
become here. And so until we realize that grief is
our opportunity to make out with reality, which is here.
We're not gonna end up having the full experience of
(27:04):
our entitlement to our moment, right, And so grief is beautiful.
And the more we like look at it with curiosity
and like romance and go, okay, what is left to grief?
What am I still holding on to that isn't real
or isn't here? Now was real and now there's this
new reality. The more we're gonna, I don't know, get
(27:27):
in touch with the vitalness that's going to create an
amazing now and a more grateful future where you're looking
at everything that actually still is with like, holy cow,
I can't believe I get to like experience all of
this like life, Like I'm here and I can see
and I can touch and I can love anyway. I
think grief is kind of the key to life at
(27:50):
this point, and that's something that I think Gray's Anatomy
teaches us over and over again.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Wow, I got chills with you saying that, because I
think we so often think of grief as this horrible
thing and it makes us sad and maybe makes us cry,
and we don't want to experience it, but we do,
and it can be really debilitating and make you not
want to maybe live in that moment because it hurts
so badly. But you're saying it's necessary to appreciate and
(28:17):
be present and live your life and it's okay to
grieve and not let that paralyze you.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, And it also tells you, like what you cared
about if you're grieving, I mean even like, give me
a small example. If you're grieving a you know, a breakup,
you get to find out that, like you really were
attached to the idea that life would look like this,
or you loved that person, or you love that moment
in your relationship or that time right, and so you
(28:44):
get in touch with your values because you're like that,
Oh God, that was so important to me that I'm
feeling this intense pain now because it's something I wanted
so much and it didn't go the way I wanted
it to. I feel so disappointed that it didn't that
I don't get to have it now now. But that's
what I value. So where is that in mine now?
(29:05):
And what do I need to do to be around
more of that thing that I loved or loved so
much in mine.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Now, Oh my god, you have me over here getting
all emotional about all of this. That's Oh, that's powerful.
That's powerful because I think we all can relate to it,
you know. Yeah, that's amazing, And thank you for reframing
that in a way that makes it feel okay and
less scary and we don't beat ourselves up over it.
(29:34):
So I think that's a really cool perspective and an
interesting way to frame it. And I've never really heard
that before from anybody, so I appreciate you mentioning that.
How do you I mean, we briefly talked about it,
but again, like you have such a beautiful outlook on life,
and I know everyone has a bad day, of course,
but I guess my question is how do you prioritize
your mental health so you can be the best version
of you every single day?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It's a practice. Basically, if you want to be the
best mom and friend and to everyone around you, you
have to be functioning with a nervous system that is
like intact, right, And so I think, you know, in
our culture there's such extremes of like selfishness or only
prioritize others and absorb a lot of toxicity and so
(30:18):
actually realizing that, like, there's a healthiness to understanding that
we are these nervous systems walking around and that we
transmit peace to people through our piece. And so if
you can find that piece for yourself, you now have
a wealth that you can transmit to other people and
be generous with. And so it is. I mean, I
(30:40):
think I started in this industry at such a young
age that I saw people burn out physically and burn
out emotionally and burn out psychologically. I mean, you can
watch Gray's Anatomy, like we have a high turnover. It's
a really rigorous, demanding job on all levels, on camera
and behind the camera and out in the world. It's
(31:00):
hard and so so much of the job is about stamina.
And you're not going to have that stamina unless you
become aware of what hurts and make sure that you're
supporting it with community and vitamins and exercise and sleep
and grieving and whatever else you need to do to
make that nerve, that spiritual nervous system one that you
(31:24):
would want others to want to be near.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
You know, that's the Katerina cocktail for a healthy, peaceful life.
I like it. As you said, all those things. I'm like, Okay,
throw that in the blender, throw that in the blender,
throw them in peace, grief, all the things.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yea. And also and really like the physical piece of
like checking in with your body. I mean, I can
tell my kids this. Your body knows so much more
than your conscious mind knows. And so if you're in
a situation and it's making you feel exhausted, maybe that's
not the vitamin that you need. And you don't have
to judge the situation or the person or the whatever.
(32:03):
You just go, oh wow, we're all different, and that
vitamin is not for this body. Maybe it's for someone
else's body. There's no moral assignment to it. But I
need to find the vitamins that feed this body in
the way that this specific body needs.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I totally had an aha as you just said that
that needs to be your children's book, like dowling the
body with the right vitamins and teaching children how to
do that. You're welcome, there's your book. Go write it.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Hey, you there, you ill your percentage done?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And don Katarina, the name of the show is. I've
never said this before, and I feel like every time
we talk, we end up talking about things that you
don't usually you know, run around talking about. But is
there anything else that comes to mind, something that you
can think of that you've never said before, whether it's
silly or deep or whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I think the thing that I have never said before
is don't worry. I know exactly where I parked the car.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I was not expecting that.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Not a thing I've ever said before.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
You always lose your car, and.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Here are the keys exactly where I always put them.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
All right, So I'm gonna send you some Apple tags
and you'll be good.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's exactly what I need.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
That's incredible. My husband can use that too, so I
hear you and I uh oh, I can't say I
love that, but I will get you some Apple tags.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
You gotta take a screenshot exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
The news season of your show comes out March fourteenth.
Is there anything else you can tease before I let
you go?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Oh? Oh gosh, oh No. I mean I love our
new intern cast, like the whole new class. They're really
delightful people, and they're very sweet and dynamic, and I
just am really I'm really excited about the relationship between
Amelia and her nephew Lucas. That's kind of a fun
thing that we're exploring this year. So that's what I'm cheasing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Amazing, Well, we can't wait to watch it. As always,
I freaking love talking to you. I feel like I'm
walking away with twenty five life lessons learned. I need
to go find a notebook and write them all down immediately.
Thank you, Thank you for being so open and gracious,
and I hope we can continue chatting many more times
in the future.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah. I keep checking in and then we'll have like
a scrapbook all of our conversations.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh I like that. I like that. And air tags
are coming your way.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Air tags.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Thank you, my love.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So good to see you, so great to see you too.
Hi bye.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before. It's part of the Elvis Duran
podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(35:06):
tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Diderio
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tommy di Dario today's episode. It is a special
one because my guest is full of so much love
and positivity and wisdom, and she just makes you feel
like you're wrapped up in a comforting blanket every single
time you listen to her talk. Katerina Scorzonee, Yeah, I
(00:22):
said that in the Italian way scorsone. Oh my god,
I love that name. She joins the show today. She's
an incredible actress best known for her work on the
groundbreaking ABC series Grey's Anatomy. Now she stars in the series,
which is, by the way, about to hit season twenty
on March fourteenth, and she plays Amelia Shepherd and has
played this role for about fourteen years now. Oh and
(00:43):
it's also the longest running queer character on television. I
love that so much. Yes, for representation. Now, when people
think of Grey's Anatomy, they think of Katerina. She is
such a beautiful artist that means so much to so
many people in the world. We reflect on her journey
Gray's Anatomy. Of course, we talk about that queer love
story with Kai that so many people have been deeply
(01:05):
invested in we show the spinoff series Station nineteen Some Love,
and Katerina gets really, really well real about the person
she is behind the character she is so well known
for playing. So let's see if today we can get
Katina to say something that she has never said before.
(01:28):
Kat Arena, it is so good to see you.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's great to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh my gosh, I feel like whenever we talk, and
it's been one other time on my Instagram live Pandemic show,
but I remember thinking I never want this conversation to end.
So my biggest challenge will be trying to not take
eighteen hours of your day and make this a concise,
fun conversation because we could talk for.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Hours, like meander it. It was all over the place, but
it was one of my favorites. I had a really
fun time during that interview. I will still like grab
clips of it and like them in other things and
send them or like there'll be We talked about so
many things that I think there are a lot of
like theme months that it'll be part of a compilation
of that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well Part two, Here we go, you ready, yeah, here
we go? All right? Well, first of all, March fourteenth,
it's coming up. It's right around the corner.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Season twenty.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Even hearing that, I'm like, season twenty, how how I know?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I know?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Are you so excited?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
What would you be? You'd be like a sophomore if
you were born when grade started.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, you'd be a sophomore in college. That's incredible, that's incredible.
Are you so excited for this new season?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I actually really am. I think part of it is
that it was like against all odds, Like we had
the pandemic and then we had the strike, and you know,
there were so many cataclysms that were making it like impossible,
and here we are and we have a shorter season
because of the strike. So usually we do like twenty
four episodes, and then we did some shorter ones during COVID.
(03:02):
But this is ten and so this is like super
action packed. We have to like get everything exciting from
twenty episodes and pack them into ten, and so it's
going to be a good one.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And you've been playing the character of Amelia for what
thirteen fourteen years in total?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Now like fourteen years?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, that is wild. So what still keeps it exciting
for you? Like, well, what's the most fun part about
playing this character still after all those years, I.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Think that they become real, you know what I mean,
Like they're they're a fourteen year old at this point,
and so I don't think I mean, I think a
way to firm it that would not work for a
career and a job like this is that like, oh
now I know what it is. But if you kind
of keep it like having a relationship with a real
(03:47):
human being, you're not like, well, they're fourteen, so no
longer interested. You're like, wow, they're fourteen. Look at all
they've learned, and look at how they've grown, and what's
going to happen next and will they be happy? So
it's a very similar relationship. I think that the audience
has to the character.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So you still very much feel attached to Amelia.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh yeah, good lord, I'm rooting for her.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
A lot of people are rooting for her a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, I need you feel that. I mean, I think again,
you as you kind of go out in the streets now,
which we weren't able to do for a while, there's
these real potent relationships with the people who are watching
the show and who have attached to the characters, and
you meet them and there is like this wild kind
of cosmic familiarity where they truly have like through Amelia,
(04:36):
they like through your avatar, they've seen into themselves. And
so you share these like really intimate moments with perfect strangers,
and I think it really kind of reminds us that
we're all like this intimate family ultimately, once you kind
of line up the context and understand each other in
(04:58):
that way, like there is this deep familiarity that we
all have because we're human beings.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah. Absolutely, Has there been a really impactful or extra
meaningful moment for you that stands out playing her over
all those.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Years you mean, like in the narrative in her story
or like out in the world.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I guess both.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I mean there's so many. I think that one of
the things, you know, we kind of laugh about Shondalane
and how it's like such a rollercoaster and all of
the characters have been put through a meat grinder multiple
times and live or don't. But I think really the
big thing is, like, I mean, she's been through so
many things, so many losses, and so many massive tragedies,
and then so many reassemblages of herself that really it's
(05:44):
just the resilience of her spirit, and I think that's
what keeps it so vital now, like the resilience of Amelia,
just like going to work and being a doctor and
being excellent in her field and being fascinated with this,
like love affair with medicine and science, the resilience of
her soul after having gone through all of this is
so potent and incredible that in each moment, I feel
(06:08):
like it's kind of the moment.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
She has a lot of qualities and characteristics that mean
so much to so many people across the board for
many different reasons, one of them being, of course, the
storyline with you and Kai and the queer community feels
so incredibly seen and validated and represented on a primetime show,
(06:31):
which I always say, you know, with streaming, yes, you
see it more and more and more, but I would argue,
you don't really see things like that on primetime as
much as we should in this day and age. And
of course, yeah, that relationship was something that people really
latched onto. Of course, Kai was the first non binary character,
one of the first on television that I've seen. What
did that relationship mean to you? To get to explore?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, I mean I think you're right. I think it
was incredible, especially on primetime, and I think a lot
of our audience, you know, I think right now politically,
gender is being politicized so violently right now, and like
really leaning into like gender apartheid, where it's like this
or it's this, and so having a non binary character
(07:14):
and getting familiar with the vocabulary around gender I think
was something that for the Grey's audience. Obviously we have
like a big cohort who had been exposed to that
language and those ideas, and then there was a lot
who happened and so having it approached in such a organic, romantic,
(07:34):
sexy the plot not being about that way, I think
was huge for the community and for all of us
like to really start to question, like, well, what the
heck are we talking about? And so I think that
that storyline was massive and magical, and er fight Master
brought it to life in such an incredible way, and
(07:55):
so I just feel like super honored that I got
to be a part of that conversation and the and
the community that's like embraced that storyline is so important,
especially right now, like you know, with what has recently
happened to next and like all of the kind of
political jockeying that's taking place. I think that being like bold, sexy, confident, funny,
(08:18):
romantic representation in this moment is so so so important
for morale and everyone's mental health. And so anyway, I
just am like thrilled that I get to be a
part of that.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And the breakup crushed people. It crushed the fandom. They
can't believe it. It's something I've seen on like Twitter
and people are like, oh my god, is there a
chance for them to reconcile? I mean, what do you
think might they get back together?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean, I think again, like we saw Derek again,
Like anything can happen in shondaland anything can happen right now.
You know. Ear fight Master is right now doing a
bunch of other things. They've got like a musical project,
and they're working with Netflix, and there's like a bunch
of things going on for them, you know, professionally in
(09:05):
other ways, and so I don't think they're available, but
at some point, who knows, who knows. I'd always be
open to it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
And it's so fun to see you talking about Er
because it's evident that you both grew very close and
have a genuine, true friendship. I imagine seeing Er exit
the show was not ideal, right, It was probably a
little tough.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I mean, I think for everybody, they really kind of
like stepped onto set and it was like hilarious magic,
and so I think everybody was like sad to see
them go. But also that's kind of how our show operates.
And I think they kind of did what they needed
to do in terms of they're so massively articulate about
the mission right now and helping people to understand and
(09:50):
reframe in their minds what gender fluidity is and how
beautiful and fun and magic and creative queerness is.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
That.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I think a platform like Gray's Anatomy served to like
really open the eyes of a lot of people, and
they got to have some really important conversations, and they
brought together tons of people who never would have maybe
connected with even parts of themselves, let alone community, you
know of friends and within the community. And then they
(10:21):
got to go out and do other things to like
further that mission. And so yeah, I mean, I just
think it was like a wonderful experience, you.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Know what, Yes to all of that, and yes to
you being a I'm going to say a queer icon.
I mean you are like the queer community. Literally, you're
an icon like Madonna is, like I don't know, got
gay is? I mean you were somebody who now is
is so meaningful to that community because you have much
for it.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I think that every queer person is an icon. I
really think that the ability to psychologically deconstruct the like
force of how to normative patriarchy as a person, as
a young person who then like courageously unfolds and finds
community despite all odds and despite kind of the violence
(11:11):
that is like all around. I think that anyone who
has the mental flexibility and courage and grace to explore
themselves and then be that kind of creative miracle in
the world walking around is an icon. And so yay.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
When you got the script on day one of playing
this role, did you know that her storyline was going
to go towards, you know, exploring her queerness or was
that a surprise for you? Is that something that just
kind of came up.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Mameily was originally written as a queer character, and so
the very first episode that she appeared in on Private Practice,
she was in a relationship with her like fellow, the
doctor that she was, and then and somehow just in
the like edit, we had too many minutes and that
story kind of went away, and then the whole story
went in other directions. But she was originally conceived of
(12:09):
as a your character, and so I think that that
was always there, and so then when it came about
I mean, we had the conversation before we'd actually talked
in the season, before Amelia had Scout, we'd talked about
Karna and Amelia being together and we kind of made
(12:29):
reference to it. I think Owen and Karina ended up
hooking up at one point and Amelia walks in and
was like, I was jealous of Owen. There have been
little sprinkles throughout that it could go in this direction,
but then it didn't happen until now, and thank god.
I mean, this was first of all, you know may
I mean, that had to happen. That was like an
(12:49):
epic relationship.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And then you're a fan of that relationship, you're pro them.
Nineteen is We're going to talk about that in a minute,
because I know there's some crossover and people love that
relationship too, But that relationship and the relationships you've been
in really are two super meaningful ones, which is so
it's so cool to see when art affects people in
such a positive way like that. I always think that's
(13:10):
just so damn beautiful. But aside from that storyline, I
know a lot of people relate to your character because
of the struggle with addiction, and that's so hard and
real for so many people. There's people in my life
who have dealt with that. So what for you has
been the most difficult thing to tap into with that storyline?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
I think I always want to make sure that we're
understanding the depth of the psychology behind addiction. And it
can be kind of looked at through so many lenses,
and there's the kind of like, oh, it's an allergy,
and there's like all of these different ways to conceive
of addiction. But I think whether it came first or
whether it happens later, trauma is always a component, you
(13:51):
know what I mean, Whether trauma kind of led to
life choices that head into addiction because of isolation, or
whether through the course of battling the addiction there are
scenarios that arise that become traumatizing. It's usually like a
big piece of recovery is like kind of unpacking where
(14:12):
the trauma lies and where the where this psychological loneliness
or isolation is that the substance of choice, whether it's
drugs or alcohol or shopping or toxic relationships or whatever,
the addiction is what attachment need that's serving and kind
of filling. And so wanted to always approach the storyline
(14:35):
not just as like she can't stay away from drugs,
but like she's this really multifaceted human who unfolded in time.
And I mean when she's five, her dad was literally
shot in the head in front of her, Like that's
not okay, you know what I mean? And then she
didn't have a dad, and she had four other siblings
and mom was depressed, and you know what I mean,
(14:58):
Like there was so much that was leading to this
like deeply, deeply lonely state that she was kind of
mentally developing in and looking for relief from. And so
I always in playing that storyline when I make it
more complicated and deep than just she can't stop taking
that substance. Why can't she try harder?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
You know, well you do that. You bring so much
compassion to that part of her life. And I think
that's why so many people are so just in love
with how you've portrayed Amelia, and I imagine that's probably
one of the more rewarding parts of your job and
playing her is when you hear people say, oh my God,
like thank you for shutting a light on what it
really is like to battle addiction.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, you kind of want to make people, not make people.
You want to invite people to. I think sometimes, especially
with hard stuff like addiction or parts of themselves that
they're not comfortable encountering. Sometimes by creating this like lovable,
flawed character, people have the opportunity to kind of in
(16:03):
a safe container i e. Like our episode or our
storyline or through this character, they get to touch parts
of themselves that they are uncomfortable with or haven't forgiven
or haven't healed, or they need some sort of resolution
and they can't get it in their own life, and
so we offer an opportunity to kind of like safely
(16:26):
touch into those really hard feelings and then maybe who knows,
but maybe they'll kind of have the courage then or
the self acceptance to like make a move in their
own actual situation or not, or they've gotten what they needed.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know, how have you become so in touch with
who you are and with life and with people and
with standing on the right side of things, because you're
somebody who just emits this like radiant, positive, beautiful, flowing energy.
And it's very interesting that when I meet someone like that,
and it's often there's always oh, I don't want to
(17:03):
come out the wrong way. I think a lot of
people want to be that, and they try to be
that and they act like that, but it's not who
they are to their core. But you're all that.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
First of all, thank you. I feel like I'm blushing
and I don't know what to say, so I'm going
to try. First of all, from a very young age,
I started meditating and so like my spiritual life is
like a big part of my life, and I think
through that it was able to burn away a lot
of the part that wants me to look at myself.
(17:32):
And so when someone says something like that, I'm very
aware that the light that you're perceiving is not mine,
you know what I mean? Like it's I think I've
I've tried to get out of the way as much
as I can, and not every day am I out
of the way, let me tell you, But when I
am when if someone's having that experience with me, somehow
(17:54):
my daze has gone away from looking at the meanness
of it, and I'm just kind of getting out of
the way. And you're having an experience actually of your
own light that I haven't like distracted you from by
making you look at me. There's something bigger that we're
both a part of, and you're just tapping into it
(18:15):
because I didn't distract you from it in that moment.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I think that's an interesting perspective. Yeah, No, I totally
get what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
And you can't recognize something that you don't.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Have interesting, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It's in you and we're just having this like little
moment in space and time where it became available to
us both. Well.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I want all the moments in the world like that,
because it feels good and I am here for it.
You mentioned earlier, Karina and Station nineteen is such a
beloved show, and of course the recent news came out
that the show is being canceled, and I know, oh,
everyone's just so upset about it. I had Danielle Savory
on the show. We talked about it, and people just
(18:57):
can't believe it. I happen to have hope that it
is going to get picked up somewhere. Yeah, and I
really do believe that. But I know you've crossed over
and you've done the show, Like, are you bumped to
see that one go?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I am? I mean, well, I don't know some but
I've crossed over this season. Yes, of course I'm sad
to see it go. I mean, the only the only
nice thing would be that maybe there and I don't know,
we don't know how it's gonna go, but maybe some
of those actors can come over and play with us
some more.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
That would be so.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Cool, right, And Peter Page is over there, fantastic director.
There's like some people that I would like definitely like
take back if it's gonna be not happening. But of course,
like we hope it goes somewhere else. But yeah, I
mean that's part of our world. Yeah, yeah, And we
get to usually like we have to like tee up
(19:49):
disasters and then have them come to the hospital, which
I think it's harder this year because the hours are reversed,
so now you can't quite do it that way because
there's a disaster there. But we've already heard so they're
going to have to come in.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Next to me. Little technicality. That's amazing. Yeah, it's it's
I know that the fans love that show. I know
that you've been on it and you've you've done a
lot of fun things over there too. And you mentioned Karina.
That would have been wild to see happening. It happened
right had had you and Karna ended up in some
sort of thing, I know, and that relationship.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
At first, when I heard it was over, I was like,
or that it was ending potentially, I was like, oh,
maybe Kreen will come back and we'll actually end up
getting to play that storyline. But I think actually that
ship is so important to people, you know, in the
queer community. I think that's pretty epic. So I don't
know what they're planning on doing, but but that's you know,
(20:43):
right off into the sunset somehow we.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Love a sunset moment.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, is it weird.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
For you to imagine this character not being a part
of your life at this point because it has been
so long, I mean, she's.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Gone, you know. It's funny, it is. It does feel
a bit like like you know how when you're dreaming,
you're like super in the story and then as you're
telling it, you're like, and then we were, you know,
in Holland, and then we got out of the elevator
and it was Alaska, and so and so the whole
(21:18):
character has all made sense. But like Amelia now and
Amelia at the beginning are so different. So she's part
of the same dream, but she keeps changing. And I
feel like if I was no longer playing her, I
think it would kind of feel like that, Like it
would just feel like waking up from a dream and
it's in you. All of the benefit of that dream
(21:40):
that has made you, like process, the feelings and the
wisdom and the pain that it helped you process is
still in your waking life. But you know, it's just
in a different form.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
That's beautifully said. I'm somebody who's so sentimental, and I
grow very attached to things. I don't know if it's
my Italian background or very emotional and sappy, but I
just I don't know. I always think about things like that,
and it's hard for me to I don't want to
say change, but to let go of things that mean
a lot to me. Not that you're doing that right now,
but it's just such an interesting concept that when that
(22:14):
day comes, like is that a weird feeling? So I'm
always fascinated well, and I.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Don't think in some ways the show's so international at
this point and it's streamable and so truly like new people.
We have like three generations watching at the same well
have like a grandma and a mom and a kid
all watching together. Like it's become a part of this
like cultural Youngian psyche I think, where we just like
(22:40):
represent pieces of human interior life. And so I feel
like even if the show stopped, I'm still going to
be having those conversations when I go to a restaurant
and someone's like, this is what that storyline meant to me,
and this is what that story So I think it
will be in my life in ways, probably for most
of the time that I am like still a functioning person.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
That's the beauty of creating a character that is so
important to so many And yes, I know the writers
are incredible and have really developed this over the course
of the twenty seasons, but I also know that it's
the artists that bring them to life and are able
to really connect the character and the show with the audience.
So it's a really cool thing. Is there something of
(23:24):
hers that you just like treasure so much that you
wish you could take home right now and leave at home.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Like something that she owns, like a physical material thing.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, I mean the scrub cap.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, the scrub gap so good. We all have our own,
like you know, and I think Amelia's scrub cap in particular.
Everyone's scrub cap usually like tips a hat to something
in their personality, and I feel like Amelia's so beautifully
captures it almost looks like these firing neurons. It's like
kind of like little firework images, but it could be
(23:56):
like dendrites and neurons, and so I feel like the
gap would like go in a little frame somewhere.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Does that ever get itchy?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It's not so bad. It's cotton. I mean, well, have
looked at we're like in our pajamas on set with
like running shoots on. It's the best like Hollywood outfit
you could possibly wear. I think that's why when we
like get a people's choice of word and we all
see each other dressed up, we're so excited.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
We're like, you're hot, right, we came out of our sweats.
I so appreciate you celebrating the show and your character,
because it is again something that I know everyone's really
eager for it to come back in a couple of weeks,
and even after all these years, it still has such
(24:39):
an intense and beautiful and passionate fandom around it. So
is there something that you've learned a really amazing, incredible
life lesson since starting the show that has always kind
of stuck with you?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, So I think something that has been coming to me,
like in like Beautiful Waves especially. I mean, obviously it
accelerated during the pandemic, but you can see it in
Grays and through the twenty years of Grace, And I
don't know if you know my house burned down like
last January.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, I'm so sad to see that on social media
when you post to that.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it was like a super intense situation. But again,
like that happened, and then like in the aftermath, like
so much community came and like helped us rebuild our
lives and like brought toys for the kids and toothbrushes
and clothes and like it ended up being this really
beautiful regeneration. But it was kind of like the end
(25:35):
of like a kind of a chapter of like pandemic
and COVID and like all of this like intense world loss,
and I think you see that in Grays as well,
Like through the twenty years, there's been so much intense,
intense tragedy. And I think that the way people survive,
and I don't mean survive, like even in the pandemic
(25:58):
people died, like, but the spirit survives it is by
learning how to create a positive relationship with grief. And
I talked about it at Payleafest and that was kind
of the first time some of those words had come
out of my life, and it's really been refining in
my mind that we kind of look I think in
American culture especially, we look at grief as something terrible
(26:21):
that we don't want to be near. But actually grief
is the process of reconciling with what is, and what
is in every moment is actually full of love and life.
And so as long as we haven't grieved, we're in
the past trying to experience something that's not here anymore.
(26:44):
So our experience is actually more hollow and thin and
not nourishing because we're over here and actually life has
become here. And so until we realize that grief is
our opportunity to make out with reality, which is here.
We're not gonna end up having the full experience of
(27:04):
our entitlement to our moment, right, And so grief is beautiful.
And the more we like look at it with curiosity
and like romance and go, okay, what is left to grief?
What am I still holding on to that isn't real
or isn't here? Now was real and now there's this
new reality. The more we're gonna, I don't know, get
(27:27):
in touch with the vitalness that's going to create an
amazing now and a more grateful future where you're looking
at everything that actually still is with like, holy cow,
I can't believe I get to like experience all of
this like life, Like I'm here and I can see
and I can touch and I can love anyway. I
think grief is kind of the key to life at
(27:50):
this point, and that's something that I think Gray's Anatomy
teaches us over and over again.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Wow, I got chills with you saying that, because I
think we so often think of grief as this horrible
thing and it makes us sad and maybe makes us cry,
and we don't want to experience it, but we do,
and it can be really debilitating and make you not
want to maybe live in that moment because it hurts
so badly. But you're saying it's necessary to appreciate and
(28:17):
be present and live your life and it's okay to
grieve and not let that paralyze you.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, And it also tells you, like what you cared
about if you're grieving, I mean even like, give me
a small example. If you're grieving a you know, a breakup,
you get to find out that, like you really were
attached to the idea that life would look like this,
or you loved that person, or you love that moment
in your relationship or that time right, and so you
(28:44):
get in touch with your values because you're like that,
Oh God, that was so important to me that I'm
feeling this intense pain now because it's something I wanted
so much and it didn't go the way I wanted
it to. I feel so disappointed that it didn't that
I don't get to have it now now. But that's
what I value. So where is that in mine now?
(29:05):
And what do I need to do to be around
more of that thing that I loved or loved so
much in mine.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Now, Oh my god, you have me over here getting
all emotional about all of this. That's Oh, that's powerful.
That's powerful because I think we all can relate to it,
you know. Yeah, that's amazing, And thank you for reframing
that in a way that makes it feel okay and
less scary and we don't beat ourselves up over it.
(29:34):
So I think that's a really cool perspective and an
interesting way to frame it. And I've never really heard
that before from anybody, so I appreciate you mentioning that.
How do you I mean, we briefly talked about it,
but again, like you have such a beautiful outlook on life,
and I know everyone has a bad day, of course,
but I guess my question is how do you prioritize
your mental health so you can be the best version
of you every single day?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
It's a practice. Basically, if you want to be the
best mom and friend and to everyone around you, you
have to be functioning with a nervous system that is
like intact, right, And so I think, you know, in
our culture there's such extremes of like selfishness or only
prioritize others and absorb a lot of toxicity and so
(30:18):
actually realizing that, like, there's a healthiness to understanding that
we are these nervous systems walking around and that we
transmit peace to people through our piece. And so if
you can find that piece for yourself, you now have
a wealth that you can transmit to other people and
be generous with. And so it is. I mean, I
(30:40):
think I started in this industry at such a young
age that I saw people burn out physically and burn
out emotionally and burn out psychologically. I mean, you can
watch Gray's Anatomy, like we have a high turnover. It's
a really rigorous, demanding job on all levels, on camera
and behind the camera and out in the world. It's
(31:00):
hard and so so much of the job is about stamina.
And you're not going to have that stamina unless you
become aware of what hurts and make sure that you're
supporting it with community and vitamins and exercise and sleep
and grieving and whatever else you need to do to
make that nerve, that spiritual nervous system one that you
(31:24):
would want others to want to be near.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
You know, that's the Katerina cocktail for a healthy, peaceful life.
I like it. As you said, all those things. I'm like, Okay,
throw that in the blender, throw that in the blender,
throw them in peace, grief, all the things.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yea. And also and really like the physical piece of
like checking in with your body. I mean, I can
tell my kids this. Your body knows so much more
than your conscious mind knows. And so if you're in
a situation and it's making you feel exhausted, maybe that's
not the vitamin that you need. And you don't have
to judge the situation or the person or the whatever.
(32:03):
You just go, oh wow, we're all different, and that
vitamin is not for this body. Maybe it's for someone
else's body. There's no moral assignment to it. But I
need to find the vitamins that feed this body in
the way that this specific body needs.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I totally had an aha as you just said that
that needs to be your children's book, like dowling the
body with the right vitamins and teaching children how to
do that. You're welcome, there's your book. Go write it.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Hey, you there, you ill your percentage done?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And don Katarina, the name of the show is. I've
never said this before, and I feel like every time
we talk, we end up talking about things that you
don't usually you know, run around talking about. But is
there anything else that comes to mind, something that you
can think of that you've never said before, whether it's
silly or deep or whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I think the thing that I have never said before
is don't worry. I know exactly where I parked the car.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I was not expecting that.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Not a thing I've ever said before.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
You always lose your car, and.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Here are the keys exactly where I always put them.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
All right, So I'm gonna send you some Apple tags
and you'll be good.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's exactly what I need.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
That's incredible. My husband can use that too, so I
hear you and I uh oh, I can't say I
love that, but I will get you some Apple tags.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
You gotta take a screenshot exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
The news season of your show comes out March fourteenth.
Is there anything else you can tease before I let
you go?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Oh? Oh gosh, oh No. I mean I love our
new intern cast, like the whole new class. They're really
delightful people, and they're very sweet and dynamic, and I
just am really I'm really excited about the relationship between
Amelia and her nephew Lucas. That's kind of a fun
thing that we're exploring this year. So that's what I'm cheasing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Amazing, Well, we can't wait to watch it. As always,
I freaking love talking to you. I feel like I'm
walking away with twenty five life lessons learned. I need
to go find a notebook and write them all down immediately.
Thank you, Thank you for being so open and gracious,
and I hope we can continue chatting many more times
in the future.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah. I keep checking in and then we'll have like
a scrapbook all of our conversations.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh I like that. I like that. And air tags
are coming your way.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Air tags.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Thank you, my love.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
So good to see you, so great to see you too.
Hi bye.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Puglisi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before. It's part of the Elvis Duran
podcast network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(35:06):
tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Diderio
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