December 12, 2023 • 34 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by the legendary Rob Thomas, who rose to fame as the co-founder and lead singer of Matchbox Twenty. The band burst onto the scene in the mid 90’s and has remained as one of the most beloved multi-generational bands in the world. Rob continues to toggle between being a frontman for the rock band and a Grammy-nominated solo star. Rob opens up about what he’s most proud of when he looks back at his incredible career, the importance of writing original music, where his inspiration comes from, how his song “Push” ended up in Barbie, releasing a Christmas album when the world so badly needed a bit of joy, how he prefers that people know his songs more than they know him, and the number one artist he hopes to someday sing a duet with.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tommy Di Dario today's guest. Oh man, oh Man.
I couldn't be more excited about this because he has
always been one of my all time favorite artists. Rob
Thomas is a singer, songwriter and multi instrumentalists who rose
(00:22):
to fame as the co founder and lead singer of
Matchbox twenty three Am, Push, Unwell, if You're Gone Yeah.
Those are just some of the many songs I have
listened to thousands of times now. The band bursts onto
the scene in the mid nineties and has remained as
one of the most beloved multi generational bands in the world,
(00:42):
captivating new audiences year after year. Rob continues to toggle
between being a Grammy nominated solo star and frontman for
the multi platinum rock band, so it's no surprise that
he has racked up countless honors and awards because of
his incredibly important contributions to music, and just as passionate
(01:03):
as he is about music, he is equally as passionate
about philanthropy. He's basically an all around kick ass human being.
So today we are getting into the holiday spirit and
diving into his Christmas album, which in my opinion, is
one of the best Christmas albums to ever exist. We
will dive into some career and life reflections and try
(01:24):
to learn some new things about a man who has
been in the spotlight for decades. So let's see if
today we can get robbed to say something that he's
never said before. Rob Thomas, how are you, my friend?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
How's it going? Man?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It is going fantastic. I am so excited to be
interviewing you today. I am such a fan of your work.
I grew up with your music. I've listened to it
throughout my whole life. You've been there for some pivotal
moments throughout my life. Well, actually, I imagine you must
get that a lot too. A lot of people come
up to you and say, Yo, man, you literally or
the soundtrack to my adolescence, to my growing up? Do
(02:03):
you get that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah? I mean, I think it's one of the like
the real joys of having the fortune to of longevity, right,
Like you don't really like when you're a kid and
you think about making it whatever that means. In the
music business, you have all of these preconceived ideas of
what you think they're going to be, But really you
don't think about the idea of the longevity and the
idea of like watching these people get older with me,
watching them start to bring their kids. I've watched their
(02:25):
kids grow up, and their kids are bringing their kids.
That's kind of as a beautiful gift that I never
really thought was going to be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
You obviously have a collection of iconic songs with match
Box twenty, you have amazing solo work. But something that
I think is really cool and I was personally surprised by,
is when you came out with a Christmas album, and man,
it is one of the best holiday Christmas albums I
have ever heard. For a variety of reasons that we're
(02:53):
going to get into in an honor of the festive months,
we're going to talk all about that. But how did
this even come to be? How does Rob Thomas say,
you know what, I'm going to some holiday music.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I think every year at Christmas, my wife and I
there's a certain time where we were sitting in the
living room where we have the piano, and we're putting
up a tree, and she's putting some lights on her
decorating and I'm fiddling around with Christmas music, and there's
always a time where she goes, you need to make
a Christmas album. We need to make a Christmas album.
And the thing about that is you have to make
a Christmas album like in the summer. So by the
(03:22):
time the summer rolls around, you either I'm already working
on a matchbox or a solo record, or we're on tour.
And so it never really seemed fitting. And I think
that was just one of those things that like, I
think like a lot of people had a lot of
these creative baby that were born out of the pandemic,
and I think that was one of those ideas. I
was home for the summer and so I just turned
my entire summer to make it all about Christmas. Like
(03:44):
I took my studio and I put it all on
Christmas lights. Luckily, Hallmark Channel was already played like Christmas
in July, so I didn't have to really make any changes.
I could just put it on Hallmark and it was
Christmas everywhere, and I just lived Christmas throughout the summer.
And it's always something I think I wanted to do
and just never found the time to do it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Well, let me tell you, it's very hard to write
good original holiday music. I'm sure you've heard many songs
out there that you know they're cute at their boppy
or whatever. But to really create good, beautifully written, amazing
holiday music is hard. It's no easy feat and you,
my friend, have done that. So what was that songwriting
(04:22):
process like for you? And was that different than how
you write your other music?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I think thanks for that, by the way, that's amazing.
I think it's really that my goal first off was
just to write really good songs and not just good
holiday songs. I think the only difference when you're working
on a holiday record is on regular songs, there's a
perimeter of like schmaltz that you can't go past. But
I think in Christmas music you have a little more leeway.
(04:47):
You can get a little more sentimental, you can get
a little more smolt s, you can get a little
more you know. But I look back, like my wife
and I ever listen met this yesterday. We had a
long ride and we had the holiday playlist shuffling, and
so some of my songs would pop up in there,
and like we were surprised. Like, looking back, there's a
lot of kind of depressing holiday stuff on there, and
I mean, I mean that the best way because it's
you know, the holidays are a rush of emotions of
(05:10):
all different kinds everything about it. It makes you feel sad,
it makes you feel happy, and it makes you want
to call out old friends that you haven't seen in
a long time, and it makes you look at memories
in a different way. And so a lot of these
songs were kind of covering all of that. These were
about like, I want to you with my family for Christmas,
I want to be home for Christmas. And these were
about you know, regrets and things that you know that
the holiday makes you think about and kind of taking
stock of that for the new year.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Was that hard for you to tap into or did
that just come to you very easily and naturally.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Oh yeah, no, I'm a giant open wound. And so
that's kind of like that's like that's my wheelhouse, man,
That's right, That's where I go home like a raw
nerve that I just keep going, Hey, what's that do?
What's that do?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Right? Right?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Hey, it made some great music, and there's so much
on the album that I love. But a New York
Christmas for me is such a beautiful and powerful song.
And you just performed that at Rockefeller Center the relighting,
of course, and I was watching that and I saw
you got really emotional, man, you got really choked up.
What was going through your mind when you were performing that.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I mean, it's a weird year. It's been a weird
couple of years, you know. And when I think about
you know that the original version of that, I re
recorded it, thanks to my wife for that, but I
re recorded it for this album with the kind of
a new spin on it. But the original version I
recorded right after nine to eleven and I played it
(06:29):
for the first time. Actually before I recorded it, I
was every year I would do a show at black
the Old Children's Hospital, and right after nine to eleven,
it was a strange Christmas, and it was very close
to September. We were all still just starting to kind
of come out of our shelves here in New York,
and I wanted to come into that performance with a
little something to say that I kind of understood the
gravity of the moment that we were all in and
(06:50):
why this wasn't just a normal Christmas. And so I
wrote New York Christmas a couple nights before I was
set to perform, and I went in and I played
it there for the first time, and then a couple
months later I went and recorded it. And so this
was kind of born out of another strange time. And
I think that there was a time the other night
where I was performing and I'm sitting there, I'm just
looking out over this city that I love so much
(07:11):
and thinking about just how much unity there is in it,
you know what I mean, how many helping hands, how
many people that are there that want to do good
in the middle of all this craziness, And I kind
of felt like there was It was just we were
at another time of uncertainty and another time, you know,
where you just kind of felt like you needed someone
to spread their love even more than normal. And that song,
(07:32):
I think it just kind of hit me. Sometimes. I
think a lot of people ask what my favorite songs are,
and they usually go with there's certain songs that just
on certain nights hit me and it kind of put me
back in the place I was when I wrote them.
And then for that night, that's my favorite song. And
so that night at They're chew letting, that was my
favorite song.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Are you a pretty emotional guy? Or do you allow
yourself to be more emotional through your songwriting, through your performing.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I'm certainly emotional. In fact, it's almost like you know,
I don't know if you know, Like X Men, there's
the one character where if he if he takes off
his glasses, it just goes everywhere, so he has to
keep them on so he doesn't kill everybody with this.
Like I think my emotions just are that always there,
and then songs in a way help me kind of
rein it in and kind of like I don't know,
(08:18):
like why am I so anxious right now? Why do
I feel weird right now? Like why am I upset?
Why am I sad? And I'll sit down and a
melody will start like taking me down a path that'll
start leading me to a lyric that'll start leading me
to a narrative that will start telling me, like informing
me more of what my emotions are. And so that's
why a lot of times the songs are less plotted
out and more just kind of like when I feel
(08:40):
an emotion, I want to sit down, I want to
kind and chart it out and see what it feels
like in song. And there's a lot of that in
the Christmas record as well, but other than have yourself
a marry little Christmas, I didn't want to do a
lot of traditional covers. So you know, the Brian Adams
song was one that I grew up with. BB Whining's
doing the Ray Charles song with me, Like, that's just
an amazing moment for me because that's one of my
(09:00):
favorite songs of all time. So again it was the
Christmas record was about that too, you know, it was
about just kind of discovering all those little pieces of
me in the holidays.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
That's so cool. I like that you allow yourself to
go there, and I think that's a huge part of
your success. I mean, there's a million reasons why you're
so successful, but I think people listen to you and
they feel what you're feeling, they feel what you're saying.
I don't necessarily gravitate towards artists where there's no emotion,
and with you, there always seems to be emotion. I
think that's a pretty damn cool thing. How would you
(09:31):
say that when you look at your collective body of work,
let's say, and you see your Christmas album, you see
your Matchbox twenty songs, you see your solo stuff. Is
there a common thread or do you kind of create
different vibes per category of work.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
As far as the writing process, I think there's something
about if I'm going through something this particular to me,
the job as a writer is to really write how
that thing that you're going through makes you feel necessarily
that specific thing, Like if I'm having a fight with
my wife, you don't need to know aboutout the fight
that I'm having with my wife, but you're probably going
through something that makes you feel the way I'm feeling
in that moment, and so if you write a song
(10:10):
about the feeling, it becomes more universal and more shared.
I think. So when you're writing, you just you write
all the time. Like for me, it's it's just a
thing I'm constantly writing. And then you say, okay, well
it's time for a Matchbox record or it's time for
a solo record, and I just kind of go, okay,
well this is what I've got right now, this is
my life up to now. In song, this is what
I'm working on. If it's Matchbox, they pick the songs
(10:32):
that they like, and you know, as a band, being
a band, they dictate the sound of that Like that
becomes you know a song that if I had done
it solo with my group of musicians, it might have
sounded completely different the exact same song. But because match
Box is very much just a band in every sense
of the word, that's gonna be what the personality is.
So I don't really have to think that hard about it.
(10:53):
I just have to try and write the best songs
I can, and then they'll find their place. I mean,
I've got more. I write sure two and a half
easy albums to get one album that I like. And
so there's all these songs just kind of sitting out there,
and then some of them you come back to I
strip them for parts, I like to say in the
scrap yard, you know, like I'll just be like, oh,
(11:14):
I'm missing this great melody, and like, oh, I remember
I wrote this chorus for the song I didn't use.
Let me grab that and put different lyrics to it.
And so it's just kind of like the it's literally
like a workshop, you know, say that old guys workshop,
and you're working on a car and you've just got
pieces all around. You're like, wait a minute, I think
I've got a fucking I got a carburetor for this song.
Hold on, I can get it, you know, and make
it work.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I imagine for someone like you, it's very hard to
narrow down the choices that end up on the final album,
right because you do write so much. That process must
be my numbing, because you must love all of the
work you create, right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think what happens is, so let's
say if I'm just starting out and I'm like, Okay,
I know I'm writing a record because I love this song,
and then I might write two or three more songs,
and then the fourth song I write, all of a sudden,
I like it so much that it set the bar
higher than these other songs. And now I'm like, oh,
now I gotta write songs that are of this caliber now.
And so I keep trying to figure out, like where
(12:15):
I'm at, keep trying to see if I can kind
of beat where I'm at and make that makes me
feel like when I go through it, there's never one,
cause you know, if you look back over thirty years,
there's a lot of times where I look back on
a record, and especially those records that you kind of
had quick turnaround on. You went in, you made them
really quick, you had a deadline, and you look back
a couple years later and you're just like, ah, I
wouldn't have put that song on there. You know, it
(12:36):
doesn't like I was trying something that I don't think worked.
Like with Matchbox, we always joke around like we had
a song called put Your Hands Up, and we had
a song called like Sugar, And they're horrible songs. I mean,
when you go back and listen to them, I think,
arguably really bad songs. But I knew what I was
trying to do at the time. I just think I
failed at it. So now I think I like to
(12:57):
try and give myself as much time as I can
so that I have little of those moments as possible.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You strike me as someone who finds inspiration quite often
and maybe at all sorts of different times during the
day and night. Do you remember what one of the
oddest moments of inspiration was in your life? What were
you doing something and it struck like has there been
a really funny moment for you where you just had
to kind of get something out?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot of times
where I wake up in the middle of the night.
I'm sure you've heard this from a lot of people
that write any kind of writing, you know, there's a
there's just a part of your brain that turns off,
and that usually as you're getting tired or just about
to fall asleep, that's the part of the brain that
sometimes blocks creativity. So then if you get into this
kind of like right on that edge, this idea comes
(13:41):
to you and sometimes you'll just literally dream a song.
I've woke up. I've woke up with a song in
my head that I know. I dreamed that I was
playing it for someone. My wife and I've gotten into
a giant fight and like left each other, like went
to our corners, shut down, you know, mad at each other.
And then I would come back at like two in
the morning and wake her up and be like, listen,
you got to hear this. I just wrote about about
(14:01):
the fight we just had. That's happened more than one time.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
How does she respond to that?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I think now she I mean, now she wakes up
and I remember one time I wrote this song called
Recollection Phoenix, and we were leaving Phoenix and I got
into this big fight with her. We were on the bus,
and this is still at the time when we were
all sharing a bus. So she was in a bunk
and I came over and woke her up and played
her this song and she was just kind of looking
at me with her tired eyes. And when she was done,
(14:30):
she goes, that should be a Willy Nelson song, and
then she just closed the curtain and uh, like five
years later Willie covered it and it became he and
he wound up doing the song. So she's got a
good ear.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Amazing. I think that's really special. Also, it sounds like
you have a great support system and always have in her.
And I think for any artist, no matter what side
of it you're you're in, it makes a big difference, right.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, I mean I think also you've got to have
someone who's honest with you, because I know when she
tells me if something is not very good, then if
she tells me something's good, I know I believe it,
you know, So there's no sugarcoating. We've been together for
twenty five years, so we kind of sometimes I know
at this point, just as I'm playing it for her,
I'm just like, yeah, this isn't working. And they say
(15:16):
that's true about a lot of writ Like for any writer,
if you really want to know how you feel about
a song you just wrote, Play it for anybody, Just
go into a room and play it for somebody. And
there's something about vicariously through that moment you're going to
know if it's working or not. There's just like all
of a sudden, like when you're out of that vacuum
and you put it out into the world, you're just like, yeah,
I feel it now, this isn't happening like this. I
gotta go.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Back back to your Christmas album. A lot of people
choose to do all covers and that's fine, and they're
awesome and we all love them, you know, But for you,
it was really important to write a lot of your
own originals about half the album. Like you said, what
made that decision a must in your mind?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Well, I think first off, I'm like, I don't consider
myself a performer. I'm a writer and I perform the
songs that I write, you know, Like I always say, like,
if this stops working out for me, like you're not
going to find me on Dancing with the Stars. This
is my thing, Like no events to Jason, I don't know,
but it sounds like as Jason's my buddy, and I
know he just is famously right now. Just crushed it
and did a really great job on that. But it's
like I don't have any other thing except for writing,
(16:15):
And so I had two things. I was going in
with this idea that I was going to do an
all originals Christmas album, and Atlantic Records didn't love the
idea of being tasked with trying to put out a
holiday record full of songs that nobody's heard before. So
then I was going to do a record that was
going to be half originals and half just eighties Christmas
stuff that I grew up with. And they still kind
(16:36):
of felt the same way. They're still like, well, I
still think if you don't give us at least one
traditional song that we you know, so that's why I
have yourself. A Merry Little Christmas was on there, because
it was like it was a you know, Atlantic Records
were like, we need one, we need one traditional Christmas song.
And then it to me like Brian Adams singing something
(16:57):
about Christmas time at my age that is a giant hit,
Like that was a huge song, Like I love that song.
There's like three or four songs that never made it
that I'm kind of bummed about. And so maybe in
the future I'll be able to release those as like
a like a little mini Christmas EP or something.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I don't know well, or maybe you need a whole
full length second Christmas album. I'm just saying, yeah, maybe
I'll just.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Do Christmas albums from now on. Maybe I'll just do
holiday albums. I got, I got my big Thanksgiving release
coming up. It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh man, nice, can't wait for that one. What I
think is so cool about you is you're very much
a multi generational artist, right like people like me. I'm'm millennial.
I grew up with you. I've known you since I
was a teenager. But there's whole new generations of people
who are discovering you through collaborations you've done over the years,
most recently through Barbie, where you were in the hottest
(17:45):
movie of the year. Man, like you literally are featured
in the hottest number one movie of the entire year.
How did that even happen? By the way, I.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Mean, that was just I think, you know why, because
Greta Gerwig is of a certain age, and she, you
know it, said that when she was going like in
high school and school, like she loved push that was
one of the songs that she loved, so I just
got it. It was you know, you get these things.
They just come in email forms and it says Greta
Gerwig making a movie, Margot, Robbie, Ryan Gosling, it's Barbie
(18:14):
and they want to use Push and it's Kin's favorite
song and he sings it on a beach and that's
like the only thing you find out. And so knowing
Barbie and knowing Greta Gerwig and knowing Push, I knew
that there was gonna be a tongue in cheek aspect
to it. I wasn't sure if it was going to
be a full on just kind of making fun of Push,
or if it was going to be what it turned
out to be, I think, which is in context, you know,
(18:38):
I think there was a lot of this kind of
angst and sometimes manufactured anks that came with nineties music,
and I kind of feel like, you know, that kind
of manufactured anks and not knowing what to do with it,
so you just go ah ha ha. That was kind
of like where Ken was in the movie, and it
kind of felt like that was the only way he
could express himself, you know, was through an angsty nineties
(18:58):
song and the end of the day, I was happy
with the way that they came out. And I think
just to see Ryan Goslin's beautiful face sing my song
coming out of his mouth, that's just worth the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh it's so great. And like I said, it went
back soaring on the charts. A whole new generation of
people were downloading that song, which is so cool. I
was so excited to see you pop up in that movie,
but I feel like you're popping up everywhere. I just
saw you pop up in an Aviation Jing commercial with
Ryan Reynolds. I mean, how did these things keep happening
with pop culture and you? It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think it's just this is my year of Canadian
Ryan's I mean, I think that's just you know, that's
just what's going on, Like the universe is sending them
to me.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
No, I mean those things are really cool. Like I
don't I try to be. When we were coming up
in the nineties, you know, there was a lot of
movie offers and commercial offers and things like that, and
it was a different time and you you turned down
everything like that was just kind of like it wasn't cool.
You didn't want to be in a movie, and you
didn't want to be in commercials, and you know, now
it's come so far in another direction that like, now
(20:03):
I see, you know, a car commercial with a friend
of mine with a song, and it I'm like, oh,
why didn't I get that? I want to do that commercial,
you know, because now you just you want to find
more ways for people to kind of experience your music.
And so sometimes you know that straight through vicariously, through
Ryan Goslin, through you know, through a giant movie like
Barbie are Sometimes it's me personally putting my face in
(20:26):
front of some people that probably wouldn't have gotten to
see it, and then hoping they'll come back over to
the music, you know, but eventually at all you hope
that it ties back, because I think one of the
things I never want to be is a celebrity, like
I work really, really hard since I was a kid,
to be a famous musician, which to me is are
two completely separate worlds.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Well, I think that's so interesting because to me, you're
easily one of the most recognizable musicians in the world,
and I would argue almost everybody knows a song of yours,
Yet you have found a way to straddle that line
of being private and putting out an enough but not
everything so that you don't become this caricature of who
(21:03):
you are. So I take it that's always been important
for you.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I love love. You know,
I've a't had times where I sit on a plane
with someone and we strike up a conversation and we're
talking for a few hours and then it comes around
to what I do, and they find out what I do,
and then I'm in and it turns out that they
know like a million of my songs, they just didn't
recognize me. And I'm like, oh, that's good. I mean that,
you know, to have famous songs that are more famous
(21:29):
than you as a person. I always thought that was
kind of a goal, you know, you want music that
was going to be around because I'm not. You know,
eventually I'm not going to be around. Eventually, I'm not
going to be able to shake my ass on stage.
I got to look about it. My knees have another
two years of me being able to jump off the piano,
and then that's out the window. And then I'm on
my sitting on the stool days. So you know, hopefully
the music stays young forever.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Though, oh will. And that's why you're so brilliant at
what you do. You're in it for the right reasons,
and through everything you just said, that's what makes you
such a grounded artist who keeps finding success and who
keeps having the reinventions, if you will, and reaching different
demos and generations of people because you do do it
for the right reason. And I always say you can
smell a fake, and you, my man, certainly are not.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You're really nice. Tell me I kind of feel like
you don't. There's there's so little things that you kind
of have control over, right, and how people are going
to perceive things and how successful things are going to be. Like,
all you really have control over is your motive and
your intention and your purpose, everything that you put into something,
and then you just hope for the best thing that's
gonna kind of come out of that. I've been really
(22:31):
fortunate that we have a group of fans that, you know,
starting almost thirty years ago, Like if you took three
am As when you know one of our first record songs,
and then you listen to Bent, and then you listen
to Ease, and then you listen to me and lonely
no more like these sound like different artists and different bands.
And I've been really fortunate to have these fans that
are generous enough for their time and their ears to like,
(22:54):
let us go a little bit this way and a
little bit this way, and not kind of. They never
pigeonholed us or me having to do one thing, and
so I think it was that generosity from them that
really was the gift that allowed me to not, I think,
not just have longevity, but to have longevity and be
able to explore and feel creative while I was doing
(23:15):
it and not feel like, well, let me put on
the push suit, you know, and go back out and
write a matchbox song.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
You know, when you think back on that amazing career
since you started on day one to now, what is
something that you're the most proud of that you look
back at and you're like, man, yeah, I did that.
I'm proud of me.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I mean it's I don't know if it's if it's
too far reaching, but I mean one thing is is
just the longevity, Like to still be here is another
version of success. It's you know, more than when we
first started. You want to sell a million records or
you want to. You know, I think that I've I've
managed to really stay connected in a really real way
(24:00):
with the person that started this journey inside of me,
and to try and stay really thankful all the time
about everything that's come for me. And so like, you know,
there's times where my wife will get frustrated and be like,
I don't think you're appreciated enough, you know, and I'll
be like, I think I'm really you know, I'm really grateful.
A lot of people seem to like it, you know,
and just enough people. I have a good career, I
(24:21):
do well, I get to go play music, you know,
and it's it's everywhere I go people are kind of
nice to me, you know, like this, this is fine,
this is what should be. So I think just I'm
staying grounded, you know, And I think not taking the
idea of success and taking it out of context that
it means anything else when you're not in the world
of playing music, Like I never understand the idea that
(24:41):
like if I'm really good at something, or if I'm
just successful at something, that somehow everybody else needs to
disrespect every other part of everything about me, you know,
Like you know, we'll screw you. I've got a number
one record, Well yeah, somebody else had it last week,
and somebody else will have one next week. And you
know you're just lucky enough to kind of visit this
spot for a second. No, you don't own it. You
(25:02):
don't own success.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And without gratitude, I feel like you're eventually going to
be doomed for failure. And I think it's always important
to be gracious. And you see the people who have
not maintained that, and I think again, that's one of
the secrets to why you've had such a vibrant and
long career. Is there anything that you haven't done yet
that's still on your list or any person you want
to collaborate with? I mean, is there anything left for
(25:25):
Rob Thomas or does he feel like I kind of
hit everything I want and I'm just going to keep creating.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
No, I mean, listen, superficially, I would love to see
Maxbox twenty win a Grammy. You know that's never happened.
I would love to see Maxbox twenty play SNL. We
never did SNL apparently, though we found out it was
for years. It was because our manager pissed off somebody
and they were like and we were banned. Oh. I
mean like, there's so many talented people out there, you know.
Like I was just talking with Brian Fallon from the
(25:52):
Gaslight Anthem, you know, like I love that band. I
would love to do something with someone like a Miley Cyrus,
who I just think is amazing. I mean, there's a
million things then I'm sure are right around the corner
tomorrow or the next day or the next day, you know,
an opportunity. You never know when that email is going
to come through. They'd be like, Hey, so and so
wants to write with you, so and so wants to
work with you. I'm just kind of open to all
the possibilities.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
And that's the way to be, man. That's what I
love about our industries, anything creative. It's you don't know
what each day will bring, and that's what's so fun.
And if you put in the work and you maintain
a sense of gratitude and keep your head down and
just do the job and a fulfilling way, anything can happen. Man,
you and Miley, that would be sick.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
That'd be awesome, right, come on, mill It's funny too
because we like her drummer is Matchbox twenties drummer. Her
backup singer is my backup singer and my solo band
we have some oh and her guitar player was Matchbox
twenty is like our backup guy. That was kind of
like the stand in the wings guy in case somebody
gets sick. Like, we've got half her band already, so
all she has to do is come on over and
(26:51):
we're ready for her.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know what, I'm going to help you campaign. I'm
going to release this clip online when the episode drops,
and we're going to campaign. Baby, Let's do.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
It, Miley make music with me, Puppy dies. You know,
it's something that that I learned I think over the
last maybe ten years or the eight years, and you know,
Ish was giving my life space outside of my career.
For the longest time. I was so grateful that I
(27:18):
if these opportunities came, I I couldn't say no to them,
you know, like I felt like I can't let this
thing go by, or that that's a moment passing by.
And then I've realized that sometimes that's the jeopardy of
your actual life. You know, there's less time that you
spend with your family, less time that you spend with
your friends, and so you prioritize this better. And so
as you know, and with Matchbox, as we've gotten older,
(27:39):
our relationship is so much better because we've started just
being honest about like right up front, Oh that doesn't
work for me, and everybody goes, oh, okay, well I'm
kind of bummed out, but I'm glad you told me.
Let's move on, as opposed to in the past making
promises you can't keep, or doing something that you knew
you didn't want to do, and then you're kind of
miserable about it through the whole process. I think as
you get older, learning to say no to something is
(28:00):
also pretty okay.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Oh, I couldn't agree more. And I also think as
an artist, you have to live a real life to
create the best work you can ultimately create. So if
you're not a real person, what are you talking about?
What are you singing about? What are you writing about?
Right right?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, you become one of those guys that just writes
songs about being famous.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Oh. I don't know about you, but I don't want
to listen to that.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I'm sure. I'm sure Kanye had won.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, that's so right on, man, listen. The name of
the show is I've never said this before, and the
title is about having us all share something, whether it's deep,
whether it's silly, that we've never really said before. Is
there anything that comes to mind as open as you are,
because I know you've been very open throughout your career,
but is there anything you've never said before?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
It's funny with the title. I was thinking about this,
I realized that as thankful as I am, and how
easy it is for me to show gratitude for things
that have happened to me, for things when people are
when people do nice things for me, I cannot say
thank you, just simply say thank you when a compliment
(29:09):
comes my way. I think there's a sense of like,
maybe you know, I'm a child of an alcoholic, so
you have this need to please that's always inside of you,
this need, you know, which you know, applause is good,
love that, But like a one on one situation with
someone who has just genuinely says something nice, I fumble
(29:30):
and I will immediately make a weird you know, like
if somebody is like, wow, you know, you look really
good today, I'll be like, oh, I'm dead inside, you know,
Or if somebody you know, like, you know that, man,
I love that song. I'm just like, oh, on a hack,
you know, and you immediately just kind of like I
kind of clam up and I have I don't. I've
not never said thank you, but I've never been able
(29:52):
to say it in that kind of a situation. Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Wow, thanks, because I feel the fear they're like if
somebody comes up to me and says like that was great,
and I go, oh, thanks. What I'm saying is you're right,
I'm fucking great. And then and I don't want you know,
and I don't want that to come across. I want
people to understand that, you know, it's relative. All this
stuff is relative, and all that kind of goes to
my head. So I just kind of go oh, and
I just clam up and I can't. I just can't
(30:19):
do it. And this is something that I'm working with
my Like my therapist sometimes will just will just drop
me on that one. I'd be like, oh, that's nice,
and she goes, no, what do you say? What do
you say? I'm like, thank you? She's like, right, just
say thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I get it though, man, I'm I'm I come from
that same mentality, I get very uncomfortable and I don't
like it. So it's and when you think about it's silly.
It's like, oh, someone's paying you a compliment. You should
just say thank you and take it. But yeah, it's
it's a funny thing. How uncomfortable that can make someone
like you. But then you can get up in an
arena and perform in front of tens of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, I was about to say twenty thousand people, you know,
hands in the air, clapping. That's fine, I think because
it's nebulous, you know, there's like it's kind of that.
It's easy for me to not have to single out,
you know, like I can. I can be a completely different,
more electrified version of myself in front of twenty thousand people.
(31:12):
But if it's me and three people, I am like
a shoegazine hermit, you know, and like retreating inside of myself.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Definitely, I totally get that. I get that so much,
Rob before I let you go, And I know this
is going to be like picking a favorite child or puppy.
But for all of those listening right now, and maybe
for people who are going to be new fans of you,
what would you say is one Matchbox song, one Rob
solo song, and one Christmas song. Everybody should turn this
(31:44):
off and go listen to right now.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Okay, these people who've never heard anything, never heard anything, say, okay,
Matchbox twenty start with bright Lights. You don't like bright Lights,
you probably won't like Matchbox twenty. Me listen to a
song called the Great Unknown, probably because if I don't
(32:08):
tell you too, even if you know me, you might
not go listen to it. And Christmas. On my Christmas record,
there is a song called I Believe in Santa Claus.
These are both covers. There's a song called I Believe
in Santa Claus that I do with Abby Anderson that
came out very very sad and sweet. And then there's
a song called the Spirit of Christmas that I do
(32:30):
with BB Whinings, who's one of my dear friends, the
great gospel legend BB Whinings, and it's it's just something
I'm very very proud of, and for some reason him
and I sing really well together. You wouldn't expect it,
but it works out great. And that's our second Christmas
song together. By the way, B. B. Winings and I
did a song of his called My Christmas Prayer that's
out there as well.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
All right, you heard the man, guys, go download all
of it, listen to it, enjoy it. Rob, Well, no,
go do it. I'm saying, go do it. You're saying, don't.
Come on. Do we need to work on this in
the next session. Go listen to it. Rob.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
It's fine, it's fine, I get it. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Oh my god, the share. Go listen to it now. Rob.
I couldn't have enjoyed this more. I could talk to
you forever. Like I said, you've You've always been a
musical hero of mine. I think your work is so
great and I'm so pumped that people are still discovering
you guys in new ways as you continue to branch
out and do more and more. And I just I
really am proud of you, even though I don't know you.
(33:27):
It sounds crazy, but I am. I'm like, I'm cheering
you on from afar.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Man. That is super super nice of you, brother. Thank
you for reaching out, by the way. That was very
cool of you to do so.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
It was really glad to get that message.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Oh it was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Looking forward to staying in touch and keep rocking out,
all right, have a great.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Holiday season, all right, man, you too, I'll see you
out there.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me, Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Publici at iHeartRadio
and by me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(34:10):
tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Diderio.
Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with
me Tommy Di Dario today's guest. Oh man, oh Man.
I couldn't be more excited about this because he has
always been one of my all time favorite artists. Rob
Thomas is a singer, songwriter and multi instrumentalists who rose
(00:22):
to fame as the co founder and lead singer of
Matchbox twenty three Am, Push, Unwell, if You're Gone Yeah.
Those are just some of the many songs I have
listened to thousands of times now. The band bursts onto
the scene in the mid nineties and has remained as
one of the most beloved multi generational bands in the world,
(00:42):
captivating new audiences year after year. Rob continues to toggle
between being a Grammy nominated solo star and frontman for
the multi platinum rock band, so it's no surprise that
he has racked up countless honors and awards because of
his incredibly important contributions to music, and just as passionate
(01:03):
as he is about music, he is equally as passionate
about philanthropy. He's basically an all around kick ass human being.
So today we are getting into the holiday spirit and
diving into his Christmas album, which in my opinion, is
one of the best Christmas albums to ever exist. We
will dive into some career and life reflections and try
(01:24):
to learn some new things about a man who has
been in the spotlight for decades. So let's see if
today we can get robbed to say something that he's
never said before. Rob Thomas, how are you, my friend?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
How's it going? Man?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It is going fantastic. I am so excited to be
interviewing you today. I am such a fan of your work.
I grew up with your music. I've listened to it
throughout my whole life. You've been there for some pivotal
moments throughout my life. Well, actually, I imagine you must
get that a lot too. A lot of people come
up to you and say, Yo, man, you literally or
the soundtrack to my adolescence, to my growing up? Do
(02:03):
you get that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah? I mean, I think it's one of the like
the real joys of having the fortune to of longevity, right,
Like you don't really like when you're a kid and
you think about making it whatever that means. In the
music business, you have all of these preconceived ideas of
what you think they're going to be, But really you
don't think about the idea of the longevity and the
idea of like watching these people get older with me,
watching them start to bring their kids. I've watched their
(02:25):
kids grow up, and their kids are bringing their kids.
That's kind of as a beautiful gift that I never
really thought was going to be a part of it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
You obviously have a collection of iconic songs with match
Box twenty, you have amazing solo work. But something that
I think is really cool and I was personally surprised by,
is when you came out with a Christmas album, and man,
it is one of the best holiday Christmas albums I
have ever heard. For a variety of reasons that we're
(02:53):
going to get into in an honor of the festive months,
we're going to talk all about that. But how did
this even come to be? How does Rob Thomas say,
you know what, I'm going to some holiday music.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I think every year at Christmas, my wife and I
there's a certain time where we were sitting in the
living room where we have the piano, and we're putting
up a tree, and she's putting some lights on her
decorating and I'm fiddling around with Christmas music, and there's
always a time where she goes, you need to make
a Christmas album. We need to make a Christmas album.
And the thing about that is you have to make
a Christmas album like in the summer. So by the
(03:22):
time the summer rolls around, you either I'm already working
on a matchbox or a solo record, or we're on tour.
And so it never really seemed fitting. And I think
that was just one of those things that like, I
think like a lot of people had a lot of
these creative baby that were born out of the pandemic,
and I think that was one of those ideas. I
was home for the summer and so I just turned
my entire summer to make it all about Christmas. Like
(03:44):
I took my studio and I put it all on
Christmas lights. Luckily, Hallmark Channel was already played like Christmas
in July, so I didn't have to really make any changes.
I could just put it on Hallmark and it was
Christmas everywhere, and I just lived Christmas throughout the summer.
And it's always something I think I wanted to do
and just never found the time to do it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Well, let me tell you, it's very hard to write
good original holiday music. I'm sure you've heard many songs
out there that you know they're cute at their boppy
or whatever. But to really create good, beautifully written, amazing
holiday music is hard. It's no easy feat and you,
my friend, have done that. So what was that songwriting
(04:22):
process like for you? And was that different than how
you write your other music?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I think thanks for that, by the way, that's amazing.
I think it's really that my goal first off was
just to write really good songs and not just good
holiday songs. I think the only difference when you're working
on a holiday record is on regular songs, there's a
perimeter of like schmaltz that you can't go past. But
I think in Christmas music you have a little more leeway.
(04:47):
You can get a little more sentimental, you can get
a little more smolt s, you can get a little
more you know. But I look back, like my wife
and I ever listen met this yesterday. We had a
long ride and we had the holiday playlist shuffling, and
so some of my songs would pop up in there,
and like we were surprised. Like, looking back, there's a
lot of kind of depressing holiday stuff on there, and
I mean, I mean that the best way because it's
you know, the holidays are a rush of emotions of
(05:10):
all different kinds everything about it. It makes you feel sad,
it makes you feel happy, and it makes you want
to call out old friends that you haven't seen in
a long time, and it makes you look at memories
in a different way. And so a lot of these
songs were kind of covering all of that. These were
about like, I want to you with my family for Christmas,
I want to be home for Christmas. And these were
about you know, regrets and things that you know that
the holiday makes you think about and kind of taking
stock of that for the new year.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Was that hard for you to tap into or did
that just come to you very easily and naturally.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Oh yeah, no, I'm a giant open wound. And so
that's kind of like that's like that's my wheelhouse, man,
That's right, That's where I go home like a raw
nerve that I just keep going, Hey, what's that do?
What's that do?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Right? Right?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Hey, it made some great music, and there's so much
on the album that I love. But a New York
Christmas for me is such a beautiful and powerful song.
And you just performed that at Rockefeller Center the relighting,
of course, and I was watching that and I saw
you got really emotional, man, you got really choked up.
What was going through your mind when you were performing that.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I mean, it's a weird year. It's been a weird
couple of years, you know. And when I think about
you know that the original version of that, I re
recorded it, thanks to my wife for that, but I
re recorded it for this album with the kind of
a new spin on it. But the original version I
recorded right after nine to eleven and I played it
(06:29):
for the first time. Actually before I recorded it, I
was every year I would do a show at black
the Old Children's Hospital, and right after nine to eleven,
it was a strange Christmas, and it was very close
to September. We were all still just starting to kind
of come out of our shelves here in New York,
and I wanted to come into that performance with a
little something to say that I kind of understood the
gravity of the moment that we were all in and
(06:50):
why this wasn't just a normal Christmas. And so I
wrote New York Christmas a couple nights before I was
set to perform, and I went in and I played
it there for the first time, and then a couple
months later I went and recorded it. And so this
was kind of born out of another strange time. And
I think that there was a time the other night
where I was performing and I'm sitting there, I'm just
looking out over this city that I love so much
(07:11):
and thinking about just how much unity there is in it,
you know what I mean, how many helping hands, how
many people that are there that want to do good
in the middle of all this craziness, And I kind
of felt like there was It was just we were
at another time of uncertainty and another time, you know,
where you just kind of felt like you needed someone
to spread their love even more than normal. And that song,
(07:32):
I think it just kind of hit me. Sometimes. I
think a lot of people ask what my favorite songs are,
and they usually go with there's certain songs that just
on certain nights hit me and it kind of put me
back in the place I was when I wrote them.
And then for that night, that's my favorite song. And
so that night at They're chew letting, that was my
favorite song.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Are you a pretty emotional guy? Or do you allow
yourself to be more emotional through your songwriting, through your performing.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I'm certainly emotional. In fact, it's almost like you know,
I don't know if you know, Like X Men, there's
the one character where if he if he takes off
his glasses, it just goes everywhere, so he has to
keep them on so he doesn't kill everybody with this.
Like I think my emotions just are that always there,
and then songs in a way help me kind of
rein it in and kind of like I don't know,
(08:18):
like why am I so anxious right now? Why do
I feel weird right now? Like why am I upset?
Why am I sad? And I'll sit down and a
melody will start like taking me down a path that'll
start leading me to a lyric that'll start leading me
to a narrative that will start telling me, like informing
me more of what my emotions are. And so that's
why a lot of times the songs are less plotted
out and more just kind of like when I feel
(08:40):
an emotion, I want to sit down, I want to
kind and chart it out and see what it feels
like in song. And there's a lot of that in
the Christmas record as well, but other than have yourself
a marry little Christmas, I didn't want to do a
lot of traditional covers. So you know, the Brian Adams
song was one that I grew up with. BB Whining's
doing the Ray Charles song with me, Like, that's just
an amazing moment for me because that's one of my
(09:00):
favorite songs of all time. So again it was the
Christmas record was about that too, you know, it was
about just kind of discovering all those little pieces of
me in the holidays.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
That's so cool. I like that you allow yourself to
go there, and I think that's a huge part of
your success. I mean, there's a million reasons why you're
so successful, but I think people listen to you and
they feel what you're feeling, they feel what you're saying.
I don't necessarily gravitate towards artists where there's no emotion,
and with you, there always seems to be emotion. I
think that's a pretty damn cool thing. How would you
(09:31):
say that when you look at your collective body of work,
let's say, and you see your Christmas album, you see
your Matchbox twenty songs, you see your solo stuff. Is
there a common thread or do you kind of create
different vibes per category of work.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
As far as the writing process, I think there's something
about if I'm going through something this particular to me,
the job as a writer is to really write how
that thing that you're going through makes you feel necessarily
that specific thing, Like if I'm having a fight with
my wife, you don't need to know aboutout the fight
that I'm having with my wife, but you're probably going
through something that makes you feel the way I'm feeling
in that moment, and so if you write a song
(10:10):
about the feeling, it becomes more universal and more shared.
I think. So when you're writing, you just you write
all the time. Like for me, it's it's just a
thing I'm constantly writing. And then you say, okay, well
it's time for a Matchbox record or it's time for
a solo record, and I just kind of go, okay,
well this is what I've got right now, this is
my life up to now. In song, this is what
I'm working on. If it's Matchbox, they pick the songs
(10:32):
that they like, and you know, as a band, being
a band, they dictate the sound of that Like that
becomes you know a song that if I had done
it solo with my group of musicians, it might have
sounded completely different the exact same song. But because match
Box is very much just a band in every sense
of the word, that's gonna be what the personality is.
So I don't really have to think that hard about it.
(10:53):
I just have to try and write the best songs
I can, and then they'll find their place. I mean,
I've got more. I write sure two and a half
easy albums to get one album that I like. And
so there's all these songs just kind of sitting out there,
and then some of them you come back to I
strip them for parts, I like to say in the
scrap yard, you know, like I'll just be like, oh,
(11:14):
I'm missing this great melody, and like, oh, I remember
I wrote this chorus for the song I didn't use.
Let me grab that and put different lyrics to it.
And so it's just kind of like the it's literally
like a workshop, you know, say that old guys workshop,
and you're working on a car and you've just got
pieces all around. You're like, wait a minute, I think
I've got a fucking I got a carburetor for this song.
Hold on, I can get it, you know, and make
it work.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I imagine for someone like you, it's very hard to
narrow down the choices that end up on the final album,
right because you do write so much. That process must
be my numbing, because you must love all of the
work you create, right.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, I mean, I think what happens is, so let's
say if I'm just starting out and I'm like, Okay,
I know I'm writing a record because I love this song,
and then I might write two or three more songs,
and then the fourth song I write, all of a sudden,
I like it so much that it set the bar
higher than these other songs. And now I'm like, oh,
now I gotta write songs that are of this caliber now.
And so I keep trying to figure out, like where
(12:15):
I'm at, keep trying to see if I can kind
of beat where I'm at and make that makes me
feel like when I go through it, there's never one,
cause you know, if you look back over thirty years,
there's a lot of times where I look back on
a record, and especially those records that you kind of
had quick turnaround on. You went in, you made them
really quick, you had a deadline, and you look back
a couple years later and you're just like, ah, I
wouldn't have put that song on there. You know, it
(12:36):
doesn't like I was trying something that I don't think worked.
Like with Matchbox, we always joke around like we had
a song called put Your Hands Up, and we had
a song called like Sugar, And they're horrible songs. I mean,
when you go back and listen to them, I think,
arguably really bad songs. But I knew what I was
trying to do at the time. I just think I
failed at it. So now I think I like to
(12:57):
try and give myself as much time as I can
so that I have little of those moments as possible.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You strike me as someone who finds inspiration quite often
and maybe at all sorts of different times during the
day and night. Do you remember what one of the
oddest moments of inspiration was in your life? What were
you doing something and it struck like has there been
a really funny moment for you where you just had
to kind of get something out?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot of times
where I wake up in the middle of the night.
I'm sure you've heard this from a lot of people
that write any kind of writing, you know, there's a
there's just a part of your brain that turns off,
and that usually as you're getting tired or just about
to fall asleep, that's the part of the brain that
sometimes blocks creativity. So then if you get into this
kind of like right on that edge, this idea comes
(13:41):
to you and sometimes you'll just literally dream a song.
I've woke up. I've woke up with a song in
my head that I know. I dreamed that I was
playing it for someone. My wife and I've gotten into
a giant fight and like left each other, like went
to our corners, shut down, you know, mad at each other.
And then I would come back at like two in
the morning and wake her up and be like, listen,
you got to hear this. I just wrote about about
(14:01):
the fight we just had. That's happened more than one time.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
How does she respond to that?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I think now she I mean, now she wakes up
and I remember one time I wrote this song called
Recollection Phoenix, and we were leaving Phoenix and I got
into this big fight with her. We were on the bus,
and this is still at the time when we were
all sharing a bus. So she was in a bunk
and I came over and woke her up and played
her this song and she was just kind of looking
at me with her tired eyes. And when she was done,
(14:30):
she goes, that should be a Willy Nelson song, and
then she just closed the curtain and uh, like five
years later Willie covered it and it became he and
he wound up doing the song. So she's got a
good ear.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Amazing. I think that's really special. Also, it sounds like
you have a great support system and always have in her.
And I think for any artist, no matter what side
of it you're you're in, it makes a big difference, right.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, I mean I think also you've got to have
someone who's honest with you, because I know when she
tells me if something is not very good, then if
she tells me something's good, I know I believe it,
you know, So there's no sugarcoating. We've been together for
twenty five years, so we kind of sometimes I know
at this point, just as I'm playing it for her,
I'm just like, yeah, this isn't working. And they say
(15:16):
that's true about a lot of writ Like for any writer,
if you really want to know how you feel about
a song you just wrote, Play it for anybody, Just
go into a room and play it for somebody. And
there's something about vicariously through that moment you're going to
know if it's working or not. There's just like all
of a sudden, like when you're out of that vacuum
and you put it out into the world, you're just like, yeah,
I feel it now, this isn't happening like this. I
gotta go.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Back back to your Christmas album. A lot of people
choose to do all covers and that's fine, and they're
awesome and we all love them, you know, But for you,
it was really important to write a lot of your
own originals about half the album. Like you said, what
made that decision a must in your mind?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Well, I think first off, I'm like, I don't consider
myself a performer. I'm a writer and I perform the
songs that I write, you know, Like I always say, like,
if this stops working out for me, like you're not
going to find me on Dancing with the Stars. This
is my thing, Like no events to Jason, I don't know,
but it sounds like as Jason's my buddy, and I
know he just is famously right now. Just crushed it
and did a really great job on that. But it's
like I don't have any other thing except for writing,
(16:15):
And so I had two things. I was going in
with this idea that I was going to do an
all originals Christmas album, and Atlantic Records didn't love the
idea of being tasked with trying to put out a
holiday record full of songs that nobody's heard before. So
then I was going to do a record that was
going to be half originals and half just eighties Christmas
stuff that I grew up with. And they still kind
(16:36):
of felt the same way. They're still like, well, I
still think if you don't give us at least one
traditional song that we you know, so that's why I
have yourself. A Merry Little Christmas was on there, because
it was like it was a you know, Atlantic Records
were like, we need one, we need one traditional Christmas song.
And then it to me like Brian Adams singing something
(16:57):
about Christmas time at my age that is a giant hit,
Like that was a huge song, Like I love that song.
There's like three or four songs that never made it
that I'm kind of bummed about. And so maybe in
the future I'll be able to release those as like
a like a little mini Christmas EP or something.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I don't know well, or maybe you need a whole
full length second Christmas album. I'm just saying, yeah, maybe
I'll just.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Do Christmas albums from now on. Maybe I'll just do
holiday albums. I got, I got my big Thanksgiving release
coming up. It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh man, nice, can't wait for that one. What I
think is so cool about you is you're very much
a multi generational artist, right like people like me. I'm'm millennial.
I grew up with you. I've known you since I
was a teenager. But there's whole new generations of people
who are discovering you through collaborations you've done over the years,
most recently through Barbie, where you were in the hottest
(17:45):
movie of the year. Man, like you literally are featured
in the hottest number one movie of the entire year.
How did that even happen? By the way, I.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Mean, that was just I think, you know why, because
Greta Gerwig is of a certain age, and she, you
know it, said that when she was going like in
high school and school, like she loved push that was
one of the songs that she loved, so I just
got it. It was you know, you get these things.
They just come in email forms and it says Greta
Gerwig making a movie, Margot, Robbie, Ryan Gosling, it's Barbie
(18:14):
and they want to use Push and it's Kin's favorite
song and he sings it on a beach and that's
like the only thing you find out. And so knowing
Barbie and knowing Greta Gerwig and knowing Push, I knew
that there was gonna be a tongue in cheek aspect
to it. I wasn't sure if it was going to
be a full on just kind of making fun of Push,
or if it was going to be what it turned
out to be, I think, which is in context, you know,
(18:38):
I think there was a lot of this kind of
angst and sometimes manufactured anks that came with nineties music,
and I kind of feel like, you know, that kind
of manufactured anks and not knowing what to do with it,
so you just go ah ha ha. That was kind
of like where Ken was in the movie, and it
kind of felt like that was the only way he
could express himself, you know, was through an angsty nineties
(18:58):
song and the end of the day, I was happy
with the way that they came out. And I think
just to see Ryan Goslin's beautiful face sing my song
coming out of his mouth, that's just worth the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh it's so great. And like I said, it went
back soaring on the charts. A whole new generation of
people were downloading that song, which is so cool. I
was so excited to see you pop up in that movie,
but I feel like you're popping up everywhere. I just
saw you pop up in an Aviation Jing commercial with
Ryan Reynolds. I mean, how did these things keep happening
with pop culture and you? It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think it's just this is my year of Canadian
Ryan's I mean, I think that's just you know, that's
just what's going on, Like the universe is sending them
to me.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
No, I mean those things are really cool. Like I
don't I try to be. When we were coming up
in the nineties, you know, there was a lot of
movie offers and commercial offers and things like that, and
it was a different time and you you turned down
everything like that was just kind of like it wasn't cool.
You didn't want to be in a movie, and you
didn't want to be in commercials, and you know, now
it's come so far in another direction that like, now
(20:03):
I see, you know, a car commercial with a friend
of mine with a song, and it I'm like, oh,
why didn't I get that? I want to do that commercial,
you know, because now you just you want to find
more ways for people to kind of experience your music.
And so sometimes you know that straight through vicariously, through
Ryan Goslin, through you know, through a giant movie like
Barbie are Sometimes it's me personally putting my face in
(20:26):
front of some people that probably wouldn't have gotten to
see it, and then hoping they'll come back over to
the music, you know, but eventually at all you hope
that it ties back, because I think one of the
things I never want to be is a celebrity, like
I work really, really hard since I was a kid,
to be a famous musician, which to me is are
two completely separate worlds.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Well, I think that's so interesting because to me, you're
easily one of the most recognizable musicians in the world,
and I would argue almost everybody knows a song of yours,
Yet you have found a way to straddle that line
of being private and putting out an enough but not
everything so that you don't become this caricature of who
(21:03):
you are. So I take it that's always been important
for you.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I love love. You know,
I've a't had times where I sit on a plane
with someone and we strike up a conversation and we're
talking for a few hours and then it comes around
to what I do, and they find out what I do,
and then I'm in and it turns out that they
know like a million of my songs, they just didn't
recognize me. And I'm like, oh, that's good. I mean that,
you know, to have famous songs that are more famous
(21:29):
than you as a person. I always thought that was
kind of a goal, you know, you want music that
was going to be around because I'm not. You know,
eventually I'm not going to be around. Eventually, I'm not
going to be able to shake my ass on stage.
I got to look about it. My knees have another
two years of me being able to jump off the piano,
and then that's out the window. And then I'm on
my sitting on the stool days. So you know, hopefully
the music stays young forever.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Though, oh will. And that's why you're so brilliant at
what you do. You're in it for the right reasons,
and through everything you just said, that's what makes you
such a grounded artist who keeps finding success and who
keeps having the reinventions, if you will, and reaching different
demos and generations of people because you do do it
for the right reason. And I always say you can
smell a fake, and you, my man, certainly are not.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You're really nice. Tell me I kind of feel like
you don't. There's there's so little things that you kind
of have control over, right, and how people are going
to perceive things and how successful things are going to be. Like,
all you really have control over is your motive and
your intention and your purpose, everything that you put into something,
and then you just hope for the best thing that's
gonna kind of come out of that. I've been really
(22:31):
fortunate that we have a group of fans that, you know,
starting almost thirty years ago, Like if you took three
am As when you know one of our first record songs,
and then you listen to Bent, and then you listen
to Ease, and then you listen to me and lonely
no more like these sound like different artists and different bands.
And I've been really fortunate to have these fans that
are generous enough for their time and their ears to like,
(22:54):
let us go a little bit this way and a
little bit this way, and not kind of. They never
pigeonholed us or me having to do one thing, and
so I think it was that generosity from them that
really was the gift that allowed me to not, I think,
not just have longevity, but to have longevity and be
able to explore and feel creative while I was doing
(23:15):
it and not feel like, well, let me put on
the push suit, you know, and go back out and
write a matchbox song.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
You know, when you think back on that amazing career
since you started on day one to now, what is
something that you're the most proud of that you look
back at and you're like, man, yeah, I did that.
I'm proud of me.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I mean it's I don't know if it's if it's
too far reaching, but I mean one thing is is
just the longevity, Like to still be here is another
version of success. It's you know, more than when we
first started. You want to sell a million records or
you want to. You know, I think that I've I've
managed to really stay connected in a really real way
(24:00):
with the person that started this journey inside of me,
and to try and stay really thankful all the time
about everything that's come for me. And so like, you know,
there's times where my wife will get frustrated and be like,
I don't think you're appreciated enough, you know, and I'll
be like, I think I'm really you know, I'm really grateful.
A lot of people seem to like it, you know,
and just enough people. I have a good career, I
(24:21):
do well, I get to go play music, you know,
and it's it's everywhere I go people are kind of
nice to me, you know, like this, this is fine,
this is what should be. So I think just I'm
staying grounded, you know, And I think not taking the
idea of success and taking it out of context that
it means anything else when you're not in the world
of playing music, Like I never understand the idea that
(24:41):
like if I'm really good at something, or if I'm
just successful at something, that somehow everybody else needs to
disrespect every other part of everything about me, you know,
Like you know, we'll screw you. I've got a number
one record, Well yeah, somebody else had it last week,
and somebody else will have one next week. And you
know you're just lucky enough to kind of visit this
spot for a second. No, you don't own it. You
(25:02):
don't own success.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And without gratitude, I feel like you're eventually going to
be doomed for failure. And I think it's always important
to be gracious. And you see the people who have
not maintained that, and I think again, that's one of
the secrets to why you've had such a vibrant and
long career. Is there anything that you haven't done yet
that's still on your list or any person you want
to collaborate with? I mean, is there anything left for
(25:25):
Rob Thomas or does he feel like I kind of
hit everything I want and I'm just going to keep creating.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
No, I mean, listen, superficially, I would love to see
Maxbox twenty win a Grammy. You know that's never happened.
I would love to see Maxbox twenty play SNL. We
never did SNL apparently, though we found out it was
for years. It was because our manager pissed off somebody
and they were like and we were banned. Oh. I
mean like, there's so many talented people out there, you know.
Like I was just talking with Brian Fallon from the
(25:52):
Gaslight Anthem, you know, like I love that band. I
would love to do something with someone like a Miley Cyrus,
who I just think is amazing. I mean, there's a
million things then I'm sure are right around the corner
tomorrow or the next day or the next day, you know,
an opportunity. You never know when that email is going
to come through. They'd be like, Hey, so and so
wants to write with you, so and so wants to
work with you. I'm just kind of open to all
the possibilities.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
And that's the way to be, man. That's what I
love about our industries, anything creative. It's you don't know
what each day will bring, and that's what's so fun.
And if you put in the work and you maintain
a sense of gratitude and keep your head down and
just do the job and a fulfilling way, anything can happen. Man,
you and Miley, that would be sick.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
That'd be awesome, right, come on, mill It's funny too
because we like her drummer is Matchbox twenties drummer. Her
backup singer is my backup singer and my solo band
we have some oh and her guitar player was Matchbox
twenty is like our backup guy. That was kind of
like the stand in the wings guy in case somebody
gets sick. Like, we've got half her band already, so
all she has to do is come on over and
(26:51):
we're ready for her.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know what, I'm going to help you campaign. I'm
going to release this clip online when the episode drops,
and we're going to campaign. Baby, Let's do.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
It, Miley make music with me, Puppy dies. You know,
it's something that that I learned I think over the
last maybe ten years or the eight years, and you know,
Ish was giving my life space outside of my career.
For the longest time. I was so grateful that I
(27:18):
if these opportunities came, I I couldn't say no to them,
you know, like I felt like I can't let this
thing go by, or that that's a moment passing by.
And then I've realized that sometimes that's the jeopardy of
your actual life. You know, there's less time that you
spend with your family, less time that you spend with
your friends, and so you prioritize this better. And so
as you know, and with Matchbox, as we've gotten older,
(27:39):
our relationship is so much better because we've started just
being honest about like right up front, Oh that doesn't
work for me, and everybody goes, oh, okay, well I'm
kind of bummed out, but I'm glad you told me.
Let's move on, as opposed to in the past making
promises you can't keep, or doing something that you knew
you didn't want to do, and then you're kind of
miserable about it through the whole process. I think as
you get older, learning to say no to something is
(28:00):
also pretty okay.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Oh, I couldn't agree more. And I also think as
an artist, you have to live a real life to
create the best work you can ultimately create. So if
you're not a real person, what are you talking about?
What are you singing about? What are you writing about?
Right right?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, you become one of those guys that just writes
songs about being famous.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Oh. I don't know about you, but I don't want
to listen to that.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I'm sure. I'm sure Kanye had won.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, that's so right on, man, listen. The name of
the show is I've never said this before, and the
title is about having us all share something, whether it's deep,
whether it's silly, that we've never really said before. Is
there anything that comes to mind as open as you are,
because I know you've been very open throughout your career,
but is there anything you've never said before?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
It's funny with the title. I was thinking about this,
I realized that as thankful as I am, and how
easy it is for me to show gratitude for things
that have happened to me, for things when people are
when people do nice things for me, I cannot say
thank you, just simply say thank you when a compliment
(29:09):
comes my way. I think there's a sense of like,
maybe you know, I'm a child of an alcoholic, so
you have this need to please that's always inside of you,
this need, you know, which you know, applause is good,
love that, But like a one on one situation with
someone who has just genuinely says something nice, I fumble
(29:30):
and I will immediately make a weird you know, like
if somebody is like, wow, you know, you look really
good today, I'll be like, oh, I'm dead inside, you know,
Or if somebody you know, like, you know that, man,
I love that song. I'm just like, oh, on a hack,
you know, and you immediately just kind of like I
kind of clam up and I have I don't. I've
not never said thank you, but I've never been able
(29:52):
to say it in that kind of a situation. Wow.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Wow, thanks, because I feel the fear they're like if
somebody comes up to me and says like that was great,
and I go, oh, thanks. What I'm saying is you're right,
I'm fucking great. And then and I don't want you know,
and I don't want that to come across. I want
people to understand that, you know, it's relative. All this
stuff is relative, and all that kind of goes to
my head. So I just kind of go oh, and
I just clam up and I can't. I just can't
(30:19):
do it. And this is something that I'm working with
my Like my therapist sometimes will just will just drop
me on that one. I'd be like, oh, that's nice,
and she goes, no, what do you say? What do
you say? I'm like, thank you? She's like, right, just
say thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I get it though, man, I'm I'm I come from
that same mentality, I get very uncomfortable and I don't
like it. So it's and when you think about it's silly.
It's like, oh, someone's paying you a compliment. You should
just say thank you and take it. But yeah, it's
it's a funny thing. How uncomfortable that can make someone
like you. But then you can get up in an
arena and perform in front of tens of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, I was about to say twenty thousand people, you know,
hands in the air, clapping. That's fine, I think because
it's nebulous, you know, there's like it's kind of that.
It's easy for me to not have to single out,
you know, like I can. I can be a completely different,
more electrified version of myself in front of twenty thousand people.
(31:12):
But if it's me and three people, I am like
a shoegazine hermit, you know, and like retreating inside of myself.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Definitely, I totally get that. I get that so much,
Rob before I let you go, And I know this
is going to be like picking a favorite child or puppy.
But for all of those listening right now, and maybe
for people who are going to be new fans of you,
what would you say is one Matchbox song, one Rob
solo song, and one Christmas song. Everybody should turn this
(31:44):
off and go listen to right now.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Okay, these people who've never heard anything, never heard anything, say, okay,
Matchbox twenty start with bright Lights. You don't like bright Lights,
you probably won't like Matchbox twenty. Me listen to a
song called the Great Unknown, probably because if I don't
(32:08):
tell you too, even if you know me, you might
not go listen to it. And Christmas. On my Christmas record,
there is a song called I Believe in Santa Claus.
These are both covers. There's a song called I Believe
in Santa Claus that I do with Abby Anderson that
came out very very sad and sweet. And then there's
a song called the Spirit of Christmas that I do
(32:30):
with BB Whinings, who's one of my dear friends, the
great gospel legend BB Whinings, and it's it's just something
I'm very very proud of, and for some reason him
and I sing really well together. You wouldn't expect it,
but it works out great. And that's our second Christmas
song together. By the way, B. B. Winings and I
did a song of his called My Christmas Prayer that's
out there as well.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
All right, you heard the man, guys, go download all
of it, listen to it, enjoy it. Rob, Well, no,
go do it. I'm saying, go do it. You're saying, don't.
Come on. Do we need to work on this in
the next session. Go listen to it. Rob.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
It's fine, it's fine, I get it. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Oh my god, the share. Go listen to it now. Rob.
I couldn't have enjoyed this more. I could talk to
you forever. Like I said, you've You've always been a
musical hero of mine. I think your work is so
great and I'm so pumped that people are still discovering
you guys in new ways as you continue to branch
out and do more and more. And I just I
really am proud of you, even though I don't know you.
(33:27):
It sounds crazy, but I am. I'm like, I'm cheering
you on from afar.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Man. That is super super nice of you, brother. Thank
you for reaching out, by the way. That was very
cool of you to do so.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
It was really glad to get that message.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Oh it was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Man.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Looking forward to staying in touch and keep rocking out,
all right, have a great.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Holiday season, all right, man, you too, I'll see you
out there.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me, Tommy Diderio.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Publici at iHeartRadio
and by me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(34:10):
tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Diderio.
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