A Thin Line Between Loving You and Loving Me

"Compassion, empathy, respect, trust." That's a word from Aja on the qualities that are important in relationships with Black men, whether they are platonic or romantic ones. But we all know that building solid, healthy relationships takes time and looks different for everybody. There's a delicate balance between Black women loving and caring for themselves, and loving and caring for Black men. Jill, Laiya, and Aja get into how complex and difficult and beautiful relationships between Black men and Black women can be. Plus, a conversation on love and mental health with father, husband, and therapist Kier Gaines.

Resource:

Black Men Heal

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Jay Dot in a production of My Heart
Radis Ladies and Gentlemen, Jill Scott presents Jay Dot Ill

(00:27):
with my sister friends A je and and I'm Jill Scott. Okay, okay,
mm hmm. Having one of those days, ladies and gentlemen. Oh,
today we're gonna talk. Okay, We're gonna talk about the

(00:51):
thin line between loving you and loving me, and specifically
what we mean here is the thin line between loving
our black men and loving ourselves. Let's go. So, the
main thing for me is just the fact that being
in relationship with black men is a form of us

(01:11):
kind of stepping up and doing our kind of revolution work,
and loving black men is part of that. Being able
to give a black person love and nurturing is a
part of is a revolutionary act. Loving black people, black
people loving themselves. However, it's a particular situation for us
as black women because we also really put ourselves on

(01:32):
the line and make it very difficult to love ourselves
in that situation because we find ourselves protecting them because
they are at risk, but we put ourselves at risk
protecting our men. I think that we've fallen into a
terrible trip where we in order like like what you said,
like in order to protect them, and we're looking at

(01:55):
them as a whole, you know, instead of an individual.
This guy, what did we say before uh did me
a disservice? Or this? What did we say? Was the
line talking about that we were talking about this guy
wronged me? Wronged me? Yeah, we didn't need to be specific.

(02:18):
When we're looking at black men. We're looking as this
gigantic whole. And we don't want to obviously, we don't
want to see anybody in prison. We know that these
are this is somebody's son. I'm a mother to a son,
you know, and AGA's mother to a son as well,
and we don't want to be that person that puts

(02:41):
another black man behind bars. However, because we don't have
street justice like we used to, where you could say
to your cousin and them go whoop his motherfucking ass
because he did this to me, we don't really have
that the way we used to. There used to be
a certain level of street justice where you could affect somebody,

(03:05):
you know. We had the neighborhood pervert. We lived across
the street from Dobbins and will be playing and fiddling
with itself. You know when all the girls walk by.
You know that was a conversation. You could go to
your elders and say, hey, listen, elders. By that, I
just mean the grown up men in the neighborhood and
say hey, um so and so across the streets acting
real crazy. You know. I saw him with his beatings

(03:27):
out and he's playing with himself behind the column. When
all the girls come outside, and would they will step
to him. They would absolutely step to him, and somebody's
ass will be whooped. If I see you outside, Hey,
I'm watching you, homie. You know what I mean. I
don't I don't want to see you talking to nobody.
I don't want to see no little girls coming in

(03:47):
your house. We're watching you. You know, there was a
certain level of of street community justice. We don't really
have that anymore, and we're looking as as black women
were looking at the hole instead of the individual and
that fortunate lot. That has to stop. It just has
to stop. You, sir, are accountable for your actions. Your actions.

(04:10):
I can't put It's like we've got our minds twisted.
Where we put everybody, We're putting all of ourselves in
these categories you know, I speak for myself. I speak
for a certain you know, amount of black women. I
would assume women in general. But at the same time,

(04:34):
they have their own voices. They're not me. I am me,
So you may agree with me on some things and
disagree with me on others. I can't say that I
speak for everybody. And I don't think that we as
black women have to continue this. I don't think we

(04:56):
have to continue this, and I think it's over. I
hope that it's all that guy, that guy did me wrong,
he wronged me, you understand, Yeah, I mean I think
I think in theory it's a situation where yeah, I mean,
we definitely shouldn't continue this, But there's so many things

(05:16):
that make it complicated. So let's say that guy who
did that to you is an important person in the
black community, and maybe they've done some really great things.
Or let's say that the person who maybe let's say
the person didn't wrong you, but they require a high
level of emotional labor, and that in labor is associated

(05:38):
with his his his his experience with racism. So it's like,
I think, sometimes we find ourselves having the same challenges
no matter what the scenario. Is because interacting with black
men with love it has that extra layer of responsibility

(05:59):
for us as black women that then makes are just
general existence so that much harder. Yeah, So if I
have to expel x amount of emotional labor for you
as the one other group of people who cares about
you most, right that, then who is doing that for me?

(06:24):
And then as black wompen y'all know where we stand
in society and with what type of resources we have
or lack thereof, So there's no what is that we
end up being that for each other? M hm. So
I just my thing is that loving black men is

(06:45):
a very complicated dance that we are continuing to try
to stay up on the beat, but we're we're falling apart.
As black women, we are probably just now, in my opinion,
having conversations around really preserving ourselves and looking at preserving

(07:08):
ourselves as the nation work, whereas not even fifteen years
ago we were looking at preserving black men as our
nation work. And even still in the social media internet world,
you will still hear people say things like black women

(07:30):
have more opportunities than black net and black women are
doing better than black men are doing. So therefore saying
that we didn't have to we deserve less, and that
is problematic and not even accurate because that puts a
whole another chip on your should as a black woman too,
because now it's like, oh, he thinks that too, so

(07:50):
now I have to plague him and made him feel
It's it's just an interesting cycle. It's it's very challenging.
Even when we win, we lose. So how do we
approach this idea? Now? How do we get black men
to understand that the preservation of the black woman actually

(08:12):
right is the nation work we all need to be doing,
not just black women. Black women should not be the
only people preserving black women. It's hard when we still
have to remind people to say black female victims of
police vilences and names in the situation is hard. It's

(08:33):
like who got us? And we hate to think about
it like that because we know the truth. That's like
one of those thoughts where you don't want to dive
too much into it because it's gonna hurt you. Because
you know that I got a few brothers, but I've
really got my systems. It hurts, and even think about it,
it hurts. This hurts, and and I have to say like,
there's some amazing, amazing men that have harmed me, that

(08:58):
have wronged me, and I it's very tough because I
can't I'm looking at the big picture men that I respect.
I'm talking from leaders, Jill. I can only imagine in
the in the political arenas, reverence artists that will go

(09:24):
on forever. And I've learned now since my last experience
year two years ago, I guess it is now since
my last experience with a man that was completely inappropriate
and just it was astonishing how disrespectful he was, and

(09:51):
he tried to make it funny and it wasn't. Um.
I've taken now to calling things out immediately, right now,
in front of everybody. This is where I am today.
The other things that have occurred, I have moved on,
and I tread lightly in their area. When I'm around them,

(10:12):
I call them as I see them. So every time
I see them, I call them what I know them
to be. So when I see you know that what's up?
Some of them? Yep, Hey, pimping? What's up? Pimping? What's
going on? Because I just had this situation not too
long ago, I now know that number one, I am

(10:33):
going to call it out immediately in front of everybody.
I am going to call my brothers. I'm gonna call
my good dudes. I'm gonna call my homies and let
them know what kind of situation I'm in so they
could step to this dude. And if it continues in
any way, shape or form, then I have to go further.

(10:54):
I have to because I've done all of my due diligence.
I've talked to you personally. I'm going to my I
guess what you want to call my my bosses or
my superiors or you know, executive producers or whatever you
have the networks. I've done those things, and and now
I got to call my homies. And if you still

(11:17):
want to get nasty, you still want to be disrespectful,
you still want to act like you don't know how
to be professional or respectful, then I have to go further.
And what does further mean? That means I have to
address it legally because you don't know how to act.
That means you have a problem. That means something is

(11:37):
wrong with you and you're you're no good in this society,
You're no good here. It just felt like we were
going into this space and like the protection of black women,
which is a very scary conversation for me to have
because it really forces you to be open about your experiences.
And I was gonna ask you all. For me, it's

(11:57):
more about not just those interactions on a one on
one with a brother, but then when that happens in
front of other brothers that you are friends that love you,
because I've been in way too many situations with brothers
that we know. I remember I had one dude tell
me he was going to smack the sh out of
me right and I was in my face backstage of

(12:19):
the Electric Factory everybody that's a performance venue in Philadelphia,
and I'm like, okay, I want you to do this
that I wish that you went. But at the time
it was like a lot of people that we know
and loved it. And even still when I didn't know
if they exactly saw what he said and I brought
it back up to these brothers that we know and love,
it was like, Wow, you know, he's he's a legend.
I really respect. You know. That's the O G. And

(12:41):
you know that's the you know and you know, and
there's been other situations, even for me being a producer
of a night show on a radio show with with men,
a hip hop radio show and opening the door for
artists and stuff like that, and just not feeling it's
just not feeling protected amongst those men. Like Jill, I'm
in this in this conversation, I was kind of jealous

(13:01):
that you have somebody to call, because, to be honest,
I don't know who I have. I can't depend on
any more of the men that love me and know
me that they would have my back all the time
in those situations. It's been too many times when I've
improved otherwise. Uh, and here and this is this is

(13:22):
where we're at. Is that And I'm glad you brought
this upl here because it's not just about the actions
of individual black men, it's also about how they are
perceived and received by the men around them. Because we
talked about the old school justice and it's like, well,

(13:43):
how is it can't even be implemented, right, it can't
because there's not enough Who is this man that did it?
Do I know him? You know it's right? Or you
have a situation where it may even come into play
where it's like, well, why are you trying to tear
a brother down? Girl? He was just playing. But what
about he was just playing. If you have a critique
of a black man, you are somehow trying to bring

(14:05):
him down, talk bad about him, ruin his legacy, all
of this kind of craziness. And my thing is this,
I would love to have a conversation with black men
about Hey, listen, what what critique? What critique can you take?
Not that I give a ship, because honestly, I don't
know what kind of critique you can or cannot take

(14:29):
that program I have scratched my name off. I will
speak truth. I will speak truth to power, no matter
what color it is. So that's period. I am absolutely
clear that my liberation is tied to theirs. So I
don't actually love black men when I keep allowing them
to be partners in their own bullshit. I'm not doing that.

(14:54):
That's not the nation work I'm interested in. So I'm like,
I'm cool with that. So either you if you want
to call me all type the names, you can call
me whatever names you want to. You could say whatever
you want about me. But one thing is this, if
the comfort, if the comfort I find is only in
the experiences and the empathy of my sisters, didn't you
just proving me right. Listen, just real quick fast story

(15:16):
when I was producing a night show in Philly and
my girlfriend was assistant to the head boss and she
was the only chick there and all the dudes from
the radio station was there. It was late night or whatever.
She called me crying, she said, girl, this super popular,
gonna be legendary for the rest of his life. Rapper
just smacked me on the ass in front of everybody,
in front of that coworker, that coworking, that coworking. What
what they do, girl, nothing. I'm the one to put

(15:37):
my tennis shoes on roll the funk up there, and
was like, what we're doing. It's fucking ten niggers in here,
and y'all watch this ship happened. You ain't gonna say
nothing because he is who he is. I'm sorry. I'm
just saying the ship is. It's it's it's so frustrating.
It's so frustrating, but I think it's it's one of

(15:59):
those who It's like the way that I addressed my
son and I'm I am no grown men's mother. I'm
just this one boy's mother and a couple of you know,
godmother's to other and aunties to others, and I'm just like,
you have to be held accountable. You have to apologize,

(16:22):
you have to check yourself. You have to acknowledge that
you're wrong, that you're wrong. I can move forward from that.
I can move forward with you. If you acknowledge that
you're wrong and apologize, I'll take a public apology. I'm
okay with that. That's cool, you know, I mean, well,

(16:47):
the patriarch is strong. It is so at the end
of the day, a lot of men are just going
on the ways in which they were taught and program
and pushed to understand and take a man word over
a woman's word to protect the maleness before they protect
the woman nous. It's just part of the way that

(17:07):
we're all programmed. And really, at the end of the day,
who do I always blame? Who fault? Is it the
big ws? It's white supremacy at the end of the day,
because we are all just imitating the value systems that
we get from that. I mean, that's just that's we're
inundated with it. So black men, I this is just

(17:28):
my opinion, are gonna have to understand the big P word.
Black men really need a nice two or three day
retreat where they understand what patriarchy is and how they're
complicit in it. Black men are gonna have to have
that moment where they realize that this is a part
of them, of of the attack on them, but that's

(17:51):
part of it. And so if they're not willing to
have that conversation and really see how those things are mean,
it's a language in which will never really speaking the
same language. Moono Fresh had had you know, went viral
in and of or of it was like a year
ago or more where she talked about being a black

(18:13):
woman is literally like being a is being black two times,
because it's like you're dealing with racism and sexism in
the same vein all the time, all of the time.
So the conversation with you is unique. You cannot have
a conversation about black women and just talk to black men.

(18:34):
You can't have a conversation about black women and just
talk to white women. You have to talk to black
women because our experience is the unique one. It is
the one in which you will understand all of them
within us. Anna Julia Cooper, I'm a quote hurt, she said,
as a black woman, I'm the only person who can

(18:55):
walk in the room and bring the entire race with men.
You can't to have a discussion about black liberation. And
I talked about liberating black women, and you can't talk
about liberating black women if you don't hold black men accountable,
can't do it, won't happen. That's what we want. I
do what I'm scared. I told agent, I'm scared to
hold black men accountable in front of company. And I

(19:17):
know it's wrong to even say that out loud, but
it's something in my mind. I just sometimes I just
want us to have meetings ourselves first and get our
messaging right, and then we can go out there and
you know it supposed toff. I just I want us
to get our messaging right. I wanted to get our
house clean before we if somebody come in. There's no
amount of censorship that's gonna make white people less racis.

(19:39):
We can't keep thinking that our sensitivity is going to
protect black men from racist white people. It's not. I
do think that we should have This is idealistic, but
it works in other communities. It works in the Jewish community.
It works in areas of the Great Continent where there

(20:01):
is a tribunal there are people that you know, it's
it's their job. They're although their butchers, and you know
some are scientists and some are parents, and some are
reverence and you know it's it's not about a religion
or one distinct faith. It is about holding ourselves accountable
outside of public view. It's about I just But then

(20:26):
it's when it's hard, because then we gotta do excuse
me for giving my truth. Where when you asked, where
you're ask gets tax where it matters. People are are
less likely to do things if they, you know, are
getting text Like what was that movie that Spike Lee
did where they kidnaped black people? He was like the
executive producer. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Like to have

(20:50):
a drop in every city, in every town where you're
held accountable for your dreams. That's the mean. It's a
beautiful dream. That's what I want. I don't want to
have to send any black men to to jail. I
don't want to be a party of black men not

(21:10):
getting an opportunity that his talent deserves. But I don't
want you to harm me. I don't want you to
wrong me. I don't want you to be disrespectful to me.
I don't wish you. I don't want to send nobody
to prison. I don't even believe my sisters cutting. I
might send your ad that's my ship. I'm like, just

(21:32):
start sending to the army. Just whatever in fight for whoever,
because now it ain't your choice. You didn't did your
crime and you don't want to go to jail. Fight
for something, do something with your time. I like the
idea of tribunal. I think that that's very African. So
I'm with anything that's so it goes there before you

(21:54):
even call anybody, let me ask, let me put a monkey,
Let me put a monkey wrenching, y'all trop you on
a real quack, because how're you gonna have a trap
on the right when he's gonna go home and tell
his wife all his best man so she don't look like, uh,
what you gonna do with the ones that that that,
what you're gonna do with them? What you're gonna do
with down, what you're gonna do with them? Wife can't

(22:15):
be you want to drive be on all ship? What
she got to do with I'm just saying that she
will be a part of this information that was in
the community because we had what do you do with
the Van Joneses of the world. Listen, I don't care
that part of it is cool with me. I'm like, hey, listen,
as long as we get the business hands and alright,
as long as the business get handled, all right, come

(22:35):
now you can come, but you're gonna have to be quiet.
Don't go home and tell your wife. Yes I'm calling names.
Yes I'm calling names. I'm just saying, girl, you're not
about to give us all the way in trouble. I'm sorry.
That's that's all this is. Depinions of like ear are
strictly depinions of like eah. But I do have concerns
over the I'm only calling out the names of black

(22:56):
men who are about the cause but aren't only in
the work practices. So I'm just saying that your home
situation is different. So my whole thing is like this.
I don't care who you're married too, long as you
protect black women at all costs. Whoever youre there is.
My thing is all tied into how you how you operate.

(23:20):
It's an interesting challenge, I feel, But yes, I'm with
how do how do we dictate accountability? And I love
what we're doing here because we're using our imaginations. Were
thinking what is the world we want to build? What
does it look like? How does it hold people accountable?
We're we're thinking about justice. We're thinking about these things.
And to me, this is the work. This is the work,

(23:41):
not figuring out how we can so our bodies over
top of black men and protect them from racism. Like, no,
that's not the work. This this is the work for me.
In my opinion, it's gonna be the work for them too.
It's gonna be it's gonna be. Yeah, well, I'm open
to here all. Maybe we need to do that, y'all?
Should we? Should we open up? I don't know. It's

(24:03):
just not like a series where we're just talking to
black man. Then how how do we move forward from here?
We'll be back after the break. I have a friend,

(24:23):
it lives in a village in South Africa and he's Zulu,
and he always talked about the tribunals, how you have
to be accountable to other men and this whole process
of Uh, it's kind of like about Mitzvah, you know,
but you travel up the mountain and they teach you

(24:46):
how to cook and how to fight and how to
listen and how to make love to a woman, and
how to be a man in a in a lot
of ways, I guess every way that that counts, how
to cry, how to be okay with that? And and
then they cut your foreskin off with a hot rock
and then you have to climb down. Yeah yeah, yeah

(25:07):
yeah yeah. And by the time and by the time
you get down to home, you are now a man.
You've gone through the whole process. That was mind blowing
that this occurred. There are certain things that that he
would call the white man's not predilection. He would call
it the white man's perversion. Hm, what what? What? What?

(25:29):
What would an example of that? Well, he said that
oral sex was a white man on both sides, both
will both ways. Yeah. Yeah that that yeah, that that
was something that we didn't involve ourselves. And I have
no idea because sex has been happening since the beginning
of sex. So you know, I don't know, but you

(25:52):
know I just heard those things. You know, the city,
they was free, they were real free. I did. Something's
come on now, I'm like, we just we just got
on this joint like twenty years ago. So it's very possible,
right right, right? Truth, I Remember when my girlfriends was like,

(26:18):
you're doing right. I Remember when a guy would rather,
you know, get hit by a car than admit that
that's something that he was involved in. Remember that that
was that was a real, real thing. Oh and if
he's Jamaican, it's still a real thing. But now that yeah,
and and and now you know you've got guys online

(26:42):
with their their their name is I eat ass. You know,
like that's a real thing. Like they're finding freedom in
their sexuality. But it's all based on somebody else's idea
of what sexuality is. Where is the sensuality? Where is
I don't know how we found out about ancient African sexuality.

(27:04):
That's interesting. I'm like, was it a thing West African
sexual It had to be. It had to be. What
on earth would would provoke somebody to cut off a
woman's clearterers. There's a lot of power in the orgasm.
A true one on earth will possess somebody to do that.
You know, I've read the books. It's about taking away

(27:26):
all of that that passion, I suppose, But Nasa, no,
no way I personally find out. I just feel like
when all else fails, I just basically just blame the
white man. So I'm gonna I'm laughing because it's it's
a really it's a real thing. Yeah, I'm gonna generally

(27:49):
go with that, you know what I'm saying. But you know,
I would like to you know what, I'm gonna find
that out. I'm gonna reach out to some scholars. I'm
gonna believe you could find out. Of course she can.
That's why she is here around the oral sexuality and
and all the sexuality period. We'll find out what is
it to have African sex at its core? Like where

(28:12):
does that come? What did we found out that African
sex is? Like missionary and born? I doubt these things
about that the people that derived from rhythm dot but
even a missionary, I'm just saying, yeah, you're rhythm matters.
I'm just where were we going from what we talk about?

(28:33):
You know? Not with ye who you hatten with? Were
you hotten with? Come on and speaks us? I mean,
you know, Okay, So going back to being the protector,
I know that we're the hunters. I don't know that

(28:55):
we were meant to be the protectors. I think, like
looking back at films like Claudine and how the government
got inside of our families and if you needed assistance,
you are allowed assistance. But you could not have a
man help you do a damn thing. And husbands die

(29:19):
and relationships break up, and you know, black woman or
is left to try to be, you know, the provider
for a family. I just watched the science of it all,
the separation of it all, and you know, a lot
of people will argue and talk about the Willie Lynch letter.

(29:40):
I you know, I'm I'm I'm not a historian, and
I can't tell you that that is true or false,
but I know that it has some validity. Separate the
young from the old, Separate the men from the women,
Separate the parents from the children, Separate the men from
the women, Separate the light from the dark. These things
have worked, They have worked with us, and here we are,

(30:04):
all of these years later, and we are struggling to
maintain healthy relationships between men and women. And I'm just here.
I'm just gonna put it out there and tell you,
you know, men, brothers that are listening, you are necessary,
you are needed. And I don't know, you know, this

(30:28):
whole feminist thing, we're we're so strong that we don't
need you it is. It is not the truth. It
is not the truth. We have to because we're out
here by ourselves. Do we want to know? You are
necessary as uncles, as neighbors, as fathers, as grandfathers, as brothers,

(30:49):
as lovers, as husbands, as you are necessary and and
anything else is just not the truth. It is not.
I can't tell you enough how valid and how important
you are. I cannot tell you enough. So we need
you to speak up on our behalf. We need you to.
I don't care if you have to pull somebody aside.

(31:10):
I don't I don't know how you deal with things necessarily,
But the attacks on us for you to sit quiet,
or for you to enjoy them as as entertainment, for
you to chime in and say, yeah, that's how those
black bitches are or whatever that is like, it needs

(31:30):
to cease and desist. Then you need to stop that.
You're only hurting yourself. You're only hurting yourself. You're only
hurting yourself. You have to start being mindful who you
stick your roots into. You have to picking up and
and just being with any your body because she got
a fat ass is just stupid. It's it's dumb. And

(31:54):
then of course, that one thing to get something else.
Now you're in a situation where you're in some on
a you know, legal fight, whether it is to see
your child or to not see your child. How much
money you pay a month for a child you don't
spend time with, and all of this stuff. It leads
us down a terrible slope of broken families, of of

(32:20):
heartaches that only be goat heart aches. You have to
wake up now, and we have to wake up too.
We have to be accountable for one another. You cannot
just keep ignoring are hurts. You're supposed to protect us,
You're supposed to be our protector. Where are you supposed
to love us as much as we love you? At

(32:42):
the very least? Can you just love us as much
as we love you? Because I fucking love black men?
Can I just hear you explain it? Can I just
can't see it? Can see it? I mean, I think
snap snaps for all of this, because I do. But again,
I feel like we have shown own our love and

(33:03):
our appreciation for black men so much. You know, I
don't feel like this is something that is lacking. And
I know you were saying this, but in terms of
just like feminism or womanism or anything or any of that.
There's no premise of that that is about disliking or
discredit and black men, and I think they have to
kind of get that part out of their minds also,
where it's like, this is just about understanding and valuing

(33:27):
that person who is devalued, and that's very important that
we continue to look at ourselves as a family and
realize there are people in this family who are most
vulnerable and addressing those that are most vulnerable. I wrote
this thing one time about my mom how we were

(33:51):
gonna go to this amusement park. And my mother was
visiting and she wanted to go, but she at the
time her mobility wasn't such that she could and she
thought she wouldn't be able to go to this amusement party.
And I told her, I said, well, you know a
lot of times amusement parts are you know, handicap accessible.
So I was like, why don't we just go see?
I said, you know what, I will just bring a wheelchair,

(34:14):
so I had one at the house. We bring the wheelchair.
I know that this is going to be a little
bit more effort on my part and the kids part,
but I'm like she deserves to have a good time.
So I take her and we go. When we get there,
they have these scooters, right, so we're excited, like, oh boom,
we'll win a scooter. We rent the scooter and everything,
and when she gets the scooter, she also gets a

(34:35):
wrist band. It's a wrist band that gives her the
opportunity to skip the line. Right, So because she's with us,
she skips the line. But because we're with her, we
get to skip the line too. So the whole day,
we never had the stand in line for one ride.
We wrote all the rides like two or three different times.

(34:57):
She had a ball. And the reason why I'm telling
that story is because if you focus your energy on
the person in the group who's the most vulnerable, everybody wins.
Everybody gets to ride the ride three times. Wow damn.

(35:22):
So I just need men and everybody to understand who's
the most vulnerable. It's not a competition, it's just about realness.
Let's be real and let's look out for each other.
That's that's the point, you know what I mean? Because
you to be black, to be black, and woman, to
be black and disabled, to be black and queer, to

(35:43):
be black, queer, and disabled. It's all layers of vulnerability.
And our job always is to pick who's the most
vulnerable and center the entire nation work around them. That's
a powerful community them as black women, we are able

(36:04):
to somehow, some way, we are we are something else.
Us not having food, we're going through a time. And
I watched my grandmother throw together stuff like rice and
tuna dish and make some kind of castle role, you know,

(36:25):
and make that thing stretch. I watched my mother make potatoes.
We had potatoes soup lade. We had potatoes soup. We
had potato cakes. We had potato. We have French fries,
we have potato. We have potato. We had potatoes because

(36:46):
that's what we had. And yump, our wrists swelled up,
the guard, our ankles swelled up. We didn't have proper nutrition,
but we stayed alive until that next neighbor showed up
and and gave us a can of something, or you
know that family members stopped by with groceries to get

(37:07):
us through the next week or so. And I look
at that and I see that kind of resilience. We
are very resilient, but we are also exhausted. So tired.
We're so exhausted, so tired. But you know what, though
it's interesting, you know that connection between us and black men,

(37:33):
it is such a magical thing, not even always in
the romantic part of it. It is just that rhythm
and the way we are connected, that that need to
protect and be there. I don't want that to go
away in myself, you know what I'm saying. I just
don't want to share it with myself. And I think

(37:55):
I'm so excited about how we connect with each other
because when we start risking, it's everything. And when we
start communicating and we share the same language, that's the
thing is that that's what they try to take from us,
things like our words and our language, and so being
on the same page and speaking the same language with

(38:17):
each other is so essential. And when we are, when
we're linked up, when black women and black men are
linked up and they're in sync with one another, is
a power like none of other. You know that feeling
when you're in a room full of black men and
everybody you can feel that they respect you, Yes, you

(38:41):
can feel it. It is such it's it's like my
my ideas are out of control because I know I'm supported.
I'm held up in this room. It's liberating and it's
the way that my mind processes. You know. I don't
feel like I have to defend myself here. I feel

(39:01):
I am safe here and I can speak up and
be free to come up with something amazing that can
be added to, can be pulled apart in a way
that is respectful. Oh that's my favorite kind of days.
When I'm surrounded by black men that respect and loved me.
I look forward to. It's so nice. Because I was

(39:24):
sitting here, I was like, yeah, I thought you was
gonna say. I was thinking the flip side is living
out here in California. Do y'all know that that feeling
that you feel, Jill, when you I feel that way
when I'm walking down the street in l A and
a black man actually looks in my direction and acknowledges
me and we have a head not moment, because it's
so rare that when it happens, You're like, you see me,

(39:46):
Thank you, brother, thank you. And I just got to
you too because that because that brother always gets seen
in l A. Don't forget I'm in California. These women
love them, you know. But for him to see me,
but him to see me in this town, He'll be like, Okay,
it's gonna be all right. It's so sad. But I
literally every time it happens, I have that moment of life,

(40:07):
I'm okay here, I'm okay mm hmm. The safety of
it all is the reason why we do all of
this work and so that we create these kind of
safe spaces for ourselves. That moment that you feel, we
dry to take that moment and multiply it, you know
what I'm saying, And yeah, all these moments so that

(40:29):
we're consistently feeling that feeling. Something really interesting happened to
me recently where for ten I were working on another
project and we were doing like some interviews with people
and we asked them, you know, when did they first
or ever learned like about black life right and like
in school, and most people could not recall when that

(40:51):
was or if they did, it was like something really basic.
And then I'll fast forward to I was interacting with
a bunch of freshman at Howard and they were all
taking like an Africana studies class, like intro to Africana Studies,
and a lot of them were saying the same thing
they were like, this is my first time being in
the room full of black people talking about black lives

(41:15):
and like their freshman in college. It's important for us
to continue to acknowledge that that moment that we're that
we're kind of sitting here thinking about and lamenting over,
is a moment that we are often trying to experience,
but is a lot harder to experience. Then we would

(41:38):
like it to be us, not a thing that we
can always access, you know what I mean, And that
that part of it, rather than making it make me sad,
it motivates me. I feel motivated. I want more spaces
where I feel safe around black men in groups and

(42:01):
I'm not contemplating my safety emotional or physical. And I
think that's really a super important thing for us to do,
is to use that as a litmus. These moments are
the moments we're looking for. You know, I want to
shout out DJ Premier. Yeah, huh, Yeah, that's a good dude.

(42:23):
Yes he's also a girl dad. Yes he's a good dude,
and I love being in his company with the crew
of men that he has around him. I appreciate and
honor these moments, the moments that I had with the
producers from a touch of Jazz. I loved being around

(42:44):
that group of guys. I felt like I felt like
a sister. I felt like uh auntie, I felt like
a niece. I felt like a woman, and I felt
like a woman that was cherished. And those are are
great memories to have. And I love black men, not

(43:04):
just out of some mythical, you know, idea of who
they are. I have seen you at your absolute best,
and I love you. And when I see that, and
I've seen you love a woman, a black woman beautifully. Yeah,
I just I want you to know that I've seen you,

(43:24):
and that who you are and what you are, I
wish and pray for it for every single one of you.
It's it's a beautiful healthiness. It's a beautiful wholeness, and
you deserve it. You deserve it. I want you to
like he shout out my husband, who was an amazing
black man. Yes he is. It's always in the background

(43:47):
right now. He like, I'm trying to put up my
goddamn dorby what I'm saying. I'm fighting, but upper door beads,
come on and I'll do what you shot him out
because he's a he's a lovely, lovely man, and and

(44:11):
I've seen him, and I know his personal history, and
so I do also know that a person can struggle
in the way of being a black man, the world
that he comes into and the circumstances that the world
will put in his lap, and he can still be

(44:33):
engaged and and and love dearly and deeply and outwardly
and really test the limits of the things that he
may not know naturally, that that that that the environment
does that he can say, you don't forget that. I
didn't have to. Fine, I know that happened to me,

(44:54):
and that's legit. But my humanity is more important. Come on,
A woman se entity is more important. My children's humanity
is more important. And I want that for them to
be humans, you know. And I just have to give
him that. He has always had a sense of that always, y'all,

(45:16):
m what's wrong? It's butterflies all over my windows? What
you mean? Butterflies all over your windows? It's butterflies, not
the cadus. They're butterflies on my windows and slightly creepy,
but it really is. I'm like, I don't believe you.

(45:37):
My daddy was just talking, yo. Can I just tell you.
I'm sorry, I mean to interrupt you, Asia, But on
the sense of butterflies, that's the person I was gonna
shout out with my father in that sense, the man
who taught me joy and what a black man should be.
But he just had a conversation with me today about
how he was whistled his window and the black butterfly
came over and the black butterfly was just dancing and
he just kept on whispering and whistling, and the black

(45:57):
butterfly just kept on dancing. And that was the is
that's that's crazy that you had that happened to you,
and I'm not, well, yeah, bro, those are spirits, high spirits. Yeah,
that's what that is. That's literally what that is. But
thank you Daddy too in that way showing me that
all that being a black man is limitless, limitless, especially emotionally.

(46:18):
Also will shout my dad. I'm gonna shout my dad.
My father has been passed away now for six years,
and I want to shout my father because my father
was a black man who had a hard time getting
it right. I want to acknowledge him because he fell
victim to a lot of the traps and a lot
of the systems that are put out there to hurt him,

(46:42):
and he actually did fall in. But my dad had
so much beauty in him that one of the things
he was able to do for me as his daughter
was to show me how it looked to be adored.
My dad adored me, It really did. I appreciate that,

(47:05):
you know, because those are my memories. Those are my
memories are my dad being funny and being adventurous and
silly and goofy and not being afraid of how other
people would view him. My dad run and joke and
just be the most fun person, and I love that
about him. Those are the ways he held onto his
humanity despite you know, his mistakes are the things that

(47:29):
he allowed, the mistakes that he made, and the things
that you know he felt victim too. So I just
want the brothers to know you don't have to be perfect.
I don't have to be perfect. This is not about perfection.
This is about reclaiming your humanity and reclaiming hours. This
is really what it is about. I'll work, I'll work

(47:49):
with each other. I have a line where I say, uh,
it's become a mantra for me. A little emotional about
these butterflies. But I might have a mantra, right, so
you can um. If you can't tell me what to do,
then you can't tell me what to do. But if
you can tell me what to do, then you can
tell me what to do. Yes, yes, yes, that's the goal.

(48:11):
That's the goal. And I don't right. And I have
no issue with being respectful or even submissive to to
the right person. I used to say all the time, Jill,
Yes I'm I'm not Yes, I'm not a submissive person,
but I am ready to submit to the right man. Yes,
I know that I can do that. And it it's

(48:32):
not so much when I see chinks in your armor
that I'm like, Okay, I can't submit to you. It's
all about character. And that's the one thing that I've
definitely learned in this lifetime to take my sweet molasses
ass time before I stick my roots into another sum

(48:53):
by them down the day. This day I used to
think in term of submission. I knew, I knew Asia.
I was just about to say to you, Jail, and
Asia is going to say, and Asia is also MUSLIMA
still that doesn't have anything to do. No, I'm ready

(49:13):
have that. I used to think in terms of that.
It's not that it doesn't have a place in life.
You know what I mean, don't word I submit? It
has its place ultimately and how we submit to the
power of God. So there is submission has its place
of life, which is important in in partnering theat and

(49:37):
I talked about this reasonably when we talked about roles,
and we talked about all the different things that we
thought when we first got married, and how so much
gets lost when you think in terms of submission to
each other. I think a lot of times it's just
more about compassion, empathy, and respect, because those things they

(50:04):
just outlast submission, all of that. And I feel like
in my life, I've come to have a deep compassion
for my man because that is the thing that I
was not taught. I've been taught to submit since I
was little. That's what women are always taught. Whether it's
directly or indirectly. It's my compassion for him that I

(50:25):
feel like it's most useful for him. What is useful, say,
to gain compassion, empathy and respect, respect. I just feel
like my compassion for him is useful for him because
it just as we're taught one thing they're taught something. Also,
they carry a heavy weight on the leader and that

(50:46):
I gotta know how to fix everything in And they
don't be freaking knowing. They be confused and have anxiety
and be fearful and scared as you are so right,
because they're humans. Because yeah, and if we continue to
attach submission to them, that's how we talk about God,

(51:10):
then we put a pressure on our men to be
all knowing. So I think the word has been kind
of remix It's fair, but I think that the word
is kind of remixed to when people say it now,
I think it's a little looser than what we thought.
I mean, I feel like sometimes submission when certain women say,
especially those too perceived strong or kind of saying in
the sense of I'm just ready to hand over the
reins a little bit like while I have them, I

(51:32):
tell you looking forward to But see that has a
lot to do with trust. Yeah, ending over reins is
about trusting that that person can handle that. Yeah, And
that's the the goal. You want to find a person
in your life that you trust enough that you feel
like you can hand at least give him one of
these rains so you can put your shoulders down a little.
And that's what I'm talking about. And that's what I
think when we say submission, that's what we're talking about.

(51:53):
I'm not talking about walking behind somebody with my head.
Yeah you know where I didn't think that, Aga, Aga,
you have just blessed my whole life right there. Compassion, empathy, respect,
and trust. Oh thank you girl, thank you, thank you,

(52:14):
thank you. That's a third. That's a third. That was
an immense sert. Remember those are your CERTs. Compassion, empathy, respect,
and tru trust assert Remember the third. I love it.
We'll be back after the break. Coming up next on

(52:40):
the show, What's on Your Heart an occasional segment where
we're check in with people we respect about how they're
really feeling hot on y'all. I think there's somebody calling.
That must mean it's time for Whatso we have someone

(53:01):
on the phone. Let's see who it is. Caregames O man, Hello, Hello, Hello, God.
Friend's going on a little bit of everything, a whole
lot of nothing. How are you doing? I'm doing fantastic.

(53:22):
I discovered care gains nobody else it was just me
And how did you do that? I happened to be
scrolling through the Instagram, and I saw this video of
this young man holding his daughter speaking, I mean truly
speaking to the hearts of mine a young men about

(53:43):
what it means to be a parent, what it means
to be a black man as a parent. And I
was so impressed. I thought, man, he really just laid
it all out there like it needs to be, because
you know, so many of us were sticking out roots
in the wrong people. So I retweeted or reposted, yeah,

(54:04):
Podus posted. I reposted, that's how bad it is. I
still call it the interweb. You can't be that bad
what you call it? Innerwere though I can. I can
do what I want. But I reposted him and I
saw the response. Yes, And what was the response care
Oh my gosh, overwhelming to say the very least. I

(54:28):
don't know. It's like I told you when you first
reached out to me, like I'm just a person who
believes that they're just speaking to things that are on
their mind. And for me to be in this body
and have this face and have this voice and had
this accent and have this background and have people listening
to my heart, genuinely, it's the wildest thing I've ever

(54:51):
been throwing my life. I love it, but I'd be
lying to you if I told you I knew exactly
how to accept it. But coming from your mouth and
you're telling me that you love of what I'm saying,
that's just I don't know. It feels strange and familiar
if it was alien in at home, all in one
feels swoop, if that makes any sense. This is why
I with care. This is why I do our first conversation,

(55:14):
I just called him on a humbug, like what's up,
And it was a great conversation that just continued to flow.
I'm geeked about seeing young black men that know what
love is and express it in this way and are
willing to share their thoughts and ideas and successes and failures.

(55:37):
That's fantastic. And a woman still be black. Yes, I
mean listen to that. I got to tell you, don't
lose the feeling. Yeah, Care, we got a question for you.
What's up? That's what I'm here for. I want all
the questions. What's on your heart? Oh man? My therapist

(55:58):
asked me that a few days ago. It's a theory. Yeah,
my dad was actually a black woman. She is outstanding
and she's very steep to spirituality. She's very blunt. She
she I feel like she understands me on the multitude
of levels, which which helps. But what's on my heart

(56:19):
conflict right now, let's go and you know that's a
million different avenues that can take conflict, right it's just
internal conflict. I'm battling right now. I'm talking to my
wife this morning and we're just talking about like how
everything is kind of happening in our life is kind
of becoming a brand now, which I don't mind because

(56:41):
people get something positive from it. But like my very
real stuff, I deal with anxiety, and that's something I've
never really shared publicly. My anxiety was so bad at
one time that I went to the doctor and they
have to do a general anxiety tests. It's like I'm
skilled of zero to tend how bad as James siety
and my range mine hits so high that they wanted

(57:04):
me to be prescribed medication. That ain't the route I
really wanted to go. I feel like that's effective for people,
and if it is, that, you know by all means
to do that, but I just felt like my route
needed to be a little different, so I didn't take that.
But just battling with anxiety, and battling with anxiety, and
then going through like grad school and learning to become
a therapist and battling anxiety. And now what's on my

(57:27):
heart is a conflict between knowing better. You know. I
did a podcast the other day where I was telling
the host, you know, one of the ways you deal
with anxiety is to figure out what kind of relationship
that you have with it. How do you greet it?
Do you agree to with hate? Do you greet it
with disgust? Are you very hard on yourself because you
hate anxiety and you let it anchor you down? Sometimes?

(57:48):
And I told her that the relationship she has with
her anxiety is really gonna dictate how it bends her
life and how she moves around it. And here I
am can't fall my own advice, and my heart is
conflicted because I know better, but I still can't get

(58:08):
it off for me. I can't get it off me,
not as much as I would like to. My therapist
brain tells me that I can't do everything. You can't
be all the eggs in all the spaces in the
whole carton. That's not how people work. But like my
person brain is like, damn, look at this big bright
bur in the spot where I fail that. You know,

(58:30):
it's sometimes it feels like y'a heart. It's like a
report car with the f s were a little bit
more than the a's. You know, you have a four
point o, you get one F. Your GP is abysmal.
You get all as you get one A. And it's
hard for the mover a tick and my therapist brain
comes back and says that I should reframe that, I

(58:50):
should look at that positively, like, no, but you have
the winds. You're just not getting all the nutrients oude
of your joys. And my real brain it's like, yeah,
but that ship ah. And sometimes I wake up and
I don't want to be a husband or father or
social media or whatever the fuck come on, I'm just conflicted.
And then it's like, damn, my god, an opportunity completely

(59:10):
changed my life. I just speak to people what's on
my heart? And now we have movie producers and television
producers and all types of people who receive high acclaim
reaching out to us. What's on your brain? What do
you think? Who wouldn't be blessed to do this? But
it don't feel the way I thought it would. It's

(59:32):
still a gap between what I thought, like, Oh, I
feel complete, Like No, it feels like the anxiety still
tugs at that. So now I'm in a place where
I'm trying to figure out what the hell is happiness? Man,
Like you think when you When I was younger, I
thought it was the women. Then you realize it's not
the Women's the money. Then you realize it's not the money,
it's the time. They like damn, it ain't even a

(59:56):
time no more. It's always a place of need of
My anxiety won't let me just be happy in that
one space funny, and that pisces me off because I
just want to be unapologetically. I don't give a damningly
joyful all the time. I want my cheeks to hurt
from smiling all the time. It just real lit. It

(01:00:16):
is Give it to me, man, Give it to man.
It is realistic. It's just an effort. This is why
I love care. I mean, I don't use the word
so lightly, but I do. I appreciate you, and I
love who you are, young man. I'm so proud of you, really, yeah,
because you're able to say the things that we all

(01:00:39):
feel and Unfortunately, black men don't have the voice. I
won't say they don't have the opportunity, but maybe that too.
They don't have the voice to to be transparent, to
say I'm scared, or I'm angry, or I'm anxious or
you know, all of these things that happen to every
human being. But you can have happiness. You're just gonna

(01:01:01):
have to fight. You're going to have to fight for it. Yep.
What does that mean? Means that you're going to have
to guard who you have around you and your family.
That the people that are around you need to be
really positive and uplifting, and when they're not, they need
to excuse themselves gracefully or you need to excuse them gracefully.

(01:01:25):
The only reason I know this is because I've been
working and trying my best to find and stay on
on a cloud. That's what I want. That's all y'all want,
you know, to live that cloud. Yeah, man, it's so
so smell good and just want more time on it.

(01:01:46):
You're going to have to learn how to say no
to some things if you haven't already. You can't do
everything because you need to rest and because you need
to hang out with your wife and you need to
to make sure you're spending time with your daughter and
need to make sure like we talked about you and
I having time for yourself. Yes, I agree. I think

(01:02:09):
if a lot of it is in time management, Like Okay,
I did a lot today. I'm gonna take a walk
and then I'm gonna make sandwich, and then I'm going
to take a bath, and you know what i mean,
just finding the ways that make you relax, and then constantly,
no matter what's going on, finding the things to be

(01:02:30):
grateful about, over and over and over again. I'm so
grateful for that sandwich I just have. I know I've
been saying sandwich a lot, but I've been eating a sandwich.
We've been doing this podcast. Yes, and the sweet love
brought it to me. That's what made it all the better,
you know. Yeah, what I'm saying, yeah, just keep finding whatever.
I'm so grateful for these shoes, you know, on your piece,

(01:02:53):
to find your piece, whether that be prayer or whatever.
But that's also a factor. Yeah, definitely. I mean, listen,
I'm over here with my mind. My mind is blown.
First of all, I want to say this, I don't
care what you'll say. I posted that video off you
and your daughter before she was on before she before

(01:03:15):
she was she right, she right, she right, she right.
Don't care. But also let me just say this. Listen.
You know, yeah, you can take time to yourself, but
if you don't know who you are, if you don't
know what you really love outside of the things that

(01:03:37):
you spoke on this yourself, you know, either the things
that constitute your roles, then you have time blone doing
things and wondering what else you could be doing right now,
because that's part of it. That's what I'm working on,
to be cent of yourself because not for nothing, Asian
I ain't there yet, like I feel him in a

(01:03:59):
way because I'm like, I'm not who I am and
what I'm doing here, so that if I don't know,
if it's about being a hundred percent, I'm just asking
yourself those questions because I think sometimes particularly with our men,
they don't get to ask anything. It's all subject to change. Yeah,
everything is a subject to change, so there, but they
don't get to just pose the question. You know, and

(01:04:21):
posing that question and consistently can can give you at
least some space to say, you know, on today, in
this moment, I had to learn. And first I thought, hey,
asked the question once a week. Now I'm to asking
myself that question several times, whereas I wouldn't where I
would think, Oh, I gotta make this time to talk
to me, you know, and I talked to me all day.

(01:04:42):
I had to walk myself. I told my neighbor the
other day, she said, Joe mentioned taking a walk. But
I think for me it was more than the walk.
It was me saying in this moment right now, who
I am is a woman who don't need to be
interacting with nobody right now m hm. And the only
place I could go to not in correct, was to
take a walk. So it was that Asia. Asia has

(01:05:06):
been married to her husband for tea for how many years?
Nothing consistently for twenty two years. They don't evolve, eating
a breather, and they have six children, Oh sweet God.
Together a black family, oh, y'all, a family fans nothing

(01:05:30):
to miss it that they worked together as d and
the family soul's super talented couple. Okay, just for two
or two together. I know exactly who you are, yo, y'all.
A goals man. And I never say that. I never
say that because I feel like that's some like surface

(01:05:51):
level type, but like y'all a goals, y'all goals, y'all
are goals. That's what's up. I can't do six though
I listen. Listen, my brother, don't do it to your
brother and your sister. Don't do it, my man, don't
do it. I will say this. I'm gonna say this
to you though. You've been a gift to us too,
because I sent that the video you just recently did

(01:06:14):
to my husbands. I'm in the middle of writing a
project and I wrote an entire essay about some feelings
that I had about him in light of that as well.
But I want to say this to you. You dropped
the gym today, even in your anguish. So that's that's
your genius really in so many ways, is that your
honesty and transparency opens up a space for all of

(01:06:37):
us to find ourselves. So you said you weren't getting
enough nutrients out of your joys. Yeah, yeah, that right there,
not enough nutrients out of my joy or even that

(01:06:58):
it has a nutrient, Yeah that that you can even Yeah,
what works for me? Because I think I think when
it comes to joy and finding it, it really is
individual I try to think about what my nine year
old self really like doing. And I really like riding
my bike with my basket, and I like going around

(01:07:22):
the block and humming my little songs. I really love that.
And I tried my best, Like for the Tyler Perry party,
that big Tyler Perry revealing of his new studio, I
was nervous. It was so many people and it was
such a big deal, and I was scared. And then

(01:07:43):
I wear the right thing, or they're gonna ask me questions.
Fuck fuck fuck fu fu funck all of that. And
instead I decided that I was gonna be nine on
the bike and I rode around and all my all
my legs, and I looked at everything that was happening,
and I was like, and I had a wonderful time

(01:08:09):
because I didn't feed into what I was supposed to
be doing or what I was supposed to be feeling. Like.
I decided I was just gonna enjoy this thing and
look at everything, and I want to taste that, and
I want to say hi to this guy high and
I'm gonna go over here. It doesn't matter to me
what you think. It doesn't matter to me what you

(01:08:31):
think I'm here for a reason. I know that because
I'm here, and that's it. How did you get there?
How did you get there twenty years? That's how it is?
Something to time a little bit. Sorry, yep, I think
that's such an important part of it. It's like when
you see these weightloss videos and you just see her

(01:08:53):
with the after and the coke bottle and then before
she got on like the big MoU MoU, and you
know that's and it's to be like, look, I lost
eighty pails in three weeks, right, cool? But how how
is the hard part? And they do that? How is
what your experiencing, what you're doing? How is And honestly,

(01:09:15):
I mean, let's just keep it one hundred these kinds
of the thoughts publicly for black men and for black
women to witness, it is elevating the conversation, is helping
other people to get there quicker. So in the time
that it takes you, you know that that the time
aspect is really just about the patience and the forgiveness

(01:09:37):
in the in the compassion and empathy that you must
exhibit for yourself. You know what I mean. I think
a lot of times we find compassion and easy thing
to give other people, but we don't find it an
easy thing to give ourselves. The time allows you to
be compassionate and giving you that perspective, you know what
I'm saying, and accepting that when people say something to you,

(01:09:58):
when they say, hey, man, you help me get there,
that's a real thing, right, That's a real thing that
you can own, and you can own that, you can
own that as a as a part of your your
journey and your vessel. It's like, yeah, I did I
helped someone, and that I'm not a phone you or
fake because it's taking me longer to get there. I
helped you get there. I was busy helping you. You're

(01:10:22):
talking on some stuff now, yeah, because that's the thing
I was. I was busy putting my stuff out into
the universe and being the vessel, you know what I mean.
Because sometimes that can be heavy too. I know, Asia
Infatine carry that weight a lot of times with even
the perception of what their life is and who they are.

(01:10:43):
But I feel like the more that you pass on
your word and the more that you you get people
to open up like you, the less heavy that gets.
Right because the way it's being distributed now because it's
not just me. You know, if you would have told
me that about a year ago, I didn't have the
faith in people that I have now. After like this
whole social media explosion, I get a lot of dams.

(01:11:04):
I can't even get through them all. Man, my cousin,
we were deleting them for three hours and it's still
said nine hundred ninety nine, which is as high as
it counts. They weren't moving. There's probably tens of thousands
of them in there. But some people really just speak
about their lives and where they are, and maybe something
I said sparked or kindle them to have some sort

(01:11:24):
of either transformative change or the first step toward it,
or something that is on their radar that they've never
thought about before. And it's like when you create music
or any other art, you'll spend twenty five minutes, you
you're spend three days working on a song. You're like,
this is my baby, this is my passion, and you
release it. But this is the song that you kind

(01:11:45):
of like, you're not kind of like this, let me
put it out here, and everyone's like, oh my god,
that's the greatest thing you ever wrote. And I feel
like that with the thoughts. So it's easy to discount
it when people say, oh man, it's really changed the
way I think. But I'm really starting to sit in
it and really lies how big that is. If someone
can have a shift in thinking to take that back
to their family. How must you're introducing joy into other

(01:12:07):
people's lives and they didn't even understand the concept. That's
wild to me. I mean, I'm very thankful that I
can do that. I'm really thankful. I'm really, really really
thankful because you can't put a value on that, especially
now where and you don't have all the answers to
own that piece, right, So you don't have to have
all that Like I don't have to have a perfect

(01:12:28):
marriage to celebrate love, to celebrate family. I don't have
to have a perfect relationship to know that my man
is so beautiful, you know what I mean. And he
got hell of flaws, you know what I'm saying. But
I don't have to all those things that we allow
white supremacy to tell us that our excellence has to

(01:12:49):
be paired with perfection, and that is not the truth.
Black people are excellent in the mundane. So at that
part of it, it's that you don't have to live
up to any expectation of perfection, and specifically in your
own mind, because it's your mind is the one that

(01:13:12):
you are tussling with, not tussling with anyone else. You're
tussling with you. And that tussling with you. Oh yeah, baby,
that's that, Like, that's the one that ain't going away.
That's that tussle that's gonna be there. You get, we
get a little we're getting a little closer. Yeah, taking
your advice. You said it, you said, man, it's the

(01:13:34):
relationship you have with the anxiety, you know, And some
days it's gonna be a tussle. Some days you're all
gonna be cuddled. Some days you're gonna be like, hey man,
what's up. And some days you'll be like, nigga, get
the hell out of my face. And you got to
be okay with that. You got to be okay with
it that, you got to be okay with that, and
that that goes back to I think the Bailey Wick

(01:13:55):
of everything we've been talking about, and that's like expectations,
managing your expects sations and knowing where you are. I
met this Tyler Perry party. I don't feel comfortable. I'm
going to okay, what do I want? I want to
feel comfortable. I'm gonna be my nine ye oe, so
for my motherfucking bite and I'm a smile and I'm
gonna be okay, And I think what all of us

(01:14:16):
need to hear. Sometimes it even takes your Scott twenty
years to get there. You know, we need to hear
that part. We need to hear, Like I can take
these pictures with my wife. It was funny. We had
I thought a surprise like drive by birthday celebration and
we recorded it and we were beefing at the time.
We weren't even speaking like we we were. We we

(01:14:38):
were just in that. You know, you hit those places
in your marriage where I love you, but I don't
like you, and I don't want to talk to you
right now unless I have to. But I'm gonna throw
you this goddamn perfect and you're gonna like it. But
that's what it is. And that's the complexity of being human.
That's the complexity of being human with another a human,

(01:15:00):
being human with yourself, realizing that you're more human than
you thought you were originally. Care I want you to
think really, really big Okay, I just want you to
think really really dumb, big huge, bigger than huge. Jackian
take enormous, right, Because we talked about this before. We

(01:15:20):
haven't really been living. We've been surviving. So to teach
people how to just be human. Ain't that some ship
that we got to learn how to be human? That
we've been lost? But I don't know that we ever
had as a people. We've been surviving and struggling and
making do and catching thing, catching up, but not exactly living.

(01:15:45):
So you're doing it and it looks good on you
and am very very happy for your young man. And
if you need us, man Jay dot Ill the podcast
how I had us, I know it's true. Hey, it's

(01:16:22):
me Eves, a producer on the podcast, showing up again
to offer you resources related to this episode. This time,
Asia wants you to know about the Philly based organization
Black Men Healed. Therapy is still, after all these years
of struggling in silence, something that many of us black
folks don't want to touch or even consider. But as

(01:16:46):
you can tell, that's not what we're about here on
this show. Agia believes helping black men deal with trauma
is at the heart of strengthening their relationship with black women.
Black Men Heal's mission is to quote provide access to men,
total health treatment, psycho education, and community resources to men
of color. They offer free therapy services and aim to

(01:17:08):
help remove the stigma around black men talking about and
caring for their mental health. Of course, black people of
any gender can benefit from therapy, but it's a particularly
taboo subject for black men, and we want to dismantle
that mindset. So yes, even if you can't access Black
Men Heal, a mental health professional is likely within reach.

(01:17:32):
As always, I'll drop a link to the organization's website
in the episode description. Thank you for listening to Jill
Scott Presents j dot Ill the Podcast. This podcast is

(01:18:02):
hosted by Jill Scott, Laya st Clair, and Age Graden Danceller.
It's executive producers are Jill Scott, Shawn Ji and Brian Calhoun.
It's produced by Laya st Clair and me He's Jeff Coke.
The editing and sound design for this episode we're done
by Christina Loranger. Listen when Jill Scott calls you randomly

(01:18:27):
at like eight thirty, because you know she don't know
she Jail Scott. You know you know she don't get it,
like no, no, right, but yes you say she don't
get it and I love that about it. J dot
Ill is a production of I heart Radio. For more

(01:18:49):
podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.